/siberia/ - Off-topic

wtf thunderfoot is a progressive now?

>>756847
He’s been pointing out how absurd Musk’s projects were for half a decade now and from there, he drifted further into normie progressivism, calling out Trump and MAGA. He also got married and had kids at some point and I think that probably helped mature him.

>>756846
they all suicided after they realized that, yes, capitalism is gonna expect you to slave away the next 50 years and no, it won’t get better and the basically were houseslaves defending the system when they weren’t seething at blue haired radlibs

>>756851
>He also got married and had kids at some point and I think that probably helped mature him.

I really fucking hate this meme.
Marriage and child rearing don't really make people more mature. It's all a redemptional license to make failed adults look good

>[…]what happened to the anti-SJW YouTubers of the 2010s[…], the ones still online are semi-normie progressives

It's completely insencere. They're just reading the crowd and the vibes and understood that Trump is very unpopular now in the US and extremely unpopular outside of the US, therefore defending him is career suicide.

If Trump didn't fumble the bag and just did neoliberalism "right", making the line go up – instead of threatening to invade allied lib countries; doing a terrible job of hiding his pedophilia; sucking Netanyahu's dick; and releasing AI slop depicting Obama as a monkey – they'd still very likely be on Trump's dick.

>>756846
It's the reverse of centre-left and moderates of the 1990s/2000s be coming MAGApedes in 2015

>>757052
This.

>>757043
I get what you're saying, but marriage and children fundamentally change your priorities and lifestyle and that changes the man. Nietzsche commented on this with regard to philosophers, saying that the best philosophers often aren't married because when a man lives on his own, he can scrounge by for himself, living with friends for brief periods, staying in hostels and surviving on little food while focusing on his work. When you have a wife and kids, you can't maintain that life. You'll need a house and a steady income, so you'll have to get a job, from which you'll come back tired and maybe not want to do philosophy. Maybe you'll want to drink beer and watch some sport and you'll develop a desire to fit in, so you might start going to church. These things happened to Erwin Rohde one of Nietzsche's friends, who started out like Nietzsche but became a "pedestrian" after getting married and having kids. So marriage and children fundamentally normieizes you.

>>757071
no it doesnt. marriageslop. divorced couples and abusive parents say otherwise. ADOPT A DOG

>>757123
>uygha really had to shill doggerinos
I will bomb a pet shop because of your stupid post.

>>757123
When did anyone say that it makes you a better person? The point is that marriage and kids radically change someone’s priorities

>>756847
sorta…not that much. he just hates Elon Musk (rightfully so).

Some CHOICE cringe avatars right there, holy fuck.

>>757052
Then there’s Sargon. He also got married and had kids and somehow evolved into a RW socialist who thinks Marx had some good ideas

>>757129
Priorities in the sense of survival.
But society really does wrongfully glorify childrearing adults by virtue of procreative status

>>757122
>I'm totally a materialist despite obsession over relationships

>>757071
Single childless adults still have to have a steady job to keep a roof over their head.
It's just over assumed that single men are less likely to want a stable life due to pro-natalist bias.

Also, there's a lot of people that have kids and aren't capable keeping a steady income.

>>756846
>the ones still online are semi-normie progressives
You’re right. With maybe one or two exceptions every time I’ve looked these people up(if they haven’t completely disappeared from the internet) they turn out to have become pretty average liberals and also parents. You’d expect the opposite but for some reason, that’s not the case.

>>757523
Maybe because MAGA is no longer a profitable grift?
It's like back in 2015 when being a progressive was no longer cool.

>>757071
I think the problem is that you just assume they live up to these needs. It’s not that marriage and children will mature you or raise you to that level, but that your maturity will determine the quality of the marriage and your parenting.

>>756846
>avatar using a suit
oh i feel the intellect and critical thinking penetrating me!!!!!!!!!!
>>757299
ok that caught me off guard
>>757836
maybe a percentage of those people fit this case but u don't think it's all of them

>>756846
There's one I used to watch back when I was a teenage child, ChrisRayGun, who followed that exact path. Big anti sjw type but ended up dating this big feminist YouTuber chick and turned into a liberal.
I think you're just not realizing that in the early days of Trump's candidacy he was kind of the edgy liberal candidate, and these people were just liberals. SJWs were seen as social fascists and censorship nuts or whatever, so these people reflexively opposed them and trump just capitalized on this. Once more and more of them realized the implications of both what he was saying and the theoretical endgame of GG/alt-rifht thinking as a whole they smartly distanced themselves from the project. Some of them were just rightoids though, and have stuck with Trump till the bitter end.
>>757299
Perfect example because sargon was always and still is just a lib.

>>757870
>maybe a percentage of those people fit this case but u don't think it's all of them

You're coping. Maybe not all of them but a vast majority of them might be.

>>757855
>Muh grooming of muh kids

I'm sorry but unless it was actual touching and gaslighting there wasn't any grooming. Those kids chose that out of their own volition. Nobody forced them to do that.

>>758103
>actual touching
Grooming has never been an inherently sexual term, you're just sheltered.
>gaslighting
Yes, grifting inherently entails gaslighting.
>Those kids chose that out of their own volition. Nobody forced them to do that.
So what you're saying is "What if the child consents to the curation algorithm?"

>>758108
Again you're rationalizing/making excuses for juvenile delinquency.
Your assumption is that youth is automatic innocence therefore moral responsibility should be annulled for them.

That is exactly what leads to reactionaryism running rampant.

Algorithm or not.

>>758133
>Again you're rationalizing/making excuses for juvenile delinquency.
Pointing the the cause isn't excuse. You want this to be a blame / individual responsibility / bootstraps issue and not a structural one.
>Your assumption is that youth is automatic innocence therefore moral responsibility should be annulled for them.
No, that's your assumptions of my assumptions. Kids just aren't experienced at avoiding these things, and a lot of the mechanics of all this is new. Of course they were susceptable to unprecedented tactics.
Pointing out what those tactics are, undermining/dismantling centralized social media and search engines, and later on under socialism abolishing think tanks is how we can prevent this from happening again.

"Just parent better" is not serious advice.

>>758152
>No, that's your assumptions of my assumptions. Kids just aren't experienced at avoiding these things, and a lot of the mechanics of all this is new. Of course they were susceptable to unprecedented tactics.
Pointing out what those tactics are, undermining/dismantling centralized social media and search engines, and later on under socialism abolishing think tanks is how we can prevent this from happening again.

It's not matter of what type of media format. It's more the fact they chose that lifestyle.
It's no different from zines and talk radio.

Blaming "muh algorithm" is just a scapegoat.
Also, "just parent better" is weak.

>Pointing the the cause isn't excuse. You want this to be a blame / individual responsibility / bootstraps issue and not a structural one.

The structural issue is that "kids should not be individually blamed for their choosing reactionary sentiment just because they're young."

There's a difference between naivete and willful spite.

Also, there's far more adults who fell for the alt right pipeline than kids yet they're held responsible for their decisions, not being excused because of the media format

>>758152
Radical rightism has been a thing in youth back in the 1980s and 90s.
So blaming "muh algorithm" sounds like an excuse
People think juvenile morality is influenced solely by media format rather than personal conditions.

No different from when people blamed rap for youth violence when irony was, youth violence was higher before invention of rap.

>>758108
>>757855
Just because young people choose differing opinions than you doesn't mean that they're groomed. I'm sorry but kids are not pets or pottery for adults to impose their selfish whims of subjective morality.
Your definition of grooming is more a thing that sheltered people say

>>758161
>It's more the fact they chose that lifestyle.
Personal choice doesn't exist at scale. There's structural reasons why kids were suddenly funneled into beliefs they'd later go on to think they were tricked into believing. (because they were.)
>Also, there's far more adults who fell for the alt right pipeline than kids yet they're held responsible for their decisions, not being excused because of the media format
Why would adults be less susceptible to unprecedented tactics? Also there's an obvious timeline of the erosion of the educational system by think tanks so that people don't develop the skills necessary to spot when they're being manipulated.
>The structural issue is that "kids should not be individually blamed for their choosing reactionary sentiment just because they're young."
Oh, you fundamentally don't understand what "structural issue" means.
>>758164
>Radical rightism has been a thing in youth back in the 1980s and 90s.
Wasn't anywhere near prominent as it became post-centralization of the web. Effectively nonexistent compared to today.

You're acting like this is a "what is available issue" and not a curation issue: as in, what is locally available to the user as presented to them. You're acting like it's a moral failing that they didn't choose to get into web surfing and protocol-based social media rather than look at the big sites their friends told them about that turned out to be specifically designed to curate these things to them.

>>758173
>Personal choice doesn't exist at scale. There's structural reasons why kids were suddenly funneled into beliefs they'd later go on to think they were tricked into believing. (because they were.)

And again, this belief that "youth is innocence/tabula rasa" is the reason why.
Children are denied any socio-physical individuality by adults
Peer pressure is due to adults forcing kids to interact with peers in incompatible matters.

>Why would adults be less susceptible to unprecedented tactics?

They believe that they are because of their age, which irony is makes them so susceptible.

>Also there's an obvious timeline of the erosion of the educational system by think tanks so that people don't develop the skills necessary to spot when they're being manipulated.

I guess the educational system was shitty in the 1930s and 40s to have so many Nazi sympathizers in the US.
Alot of our extremists are not as poorly educated as you think.
Academia was rife with misogyny and racism.
Americas Founding Fathers were all educated men who thought that Anglos were the only superior race and everyone else was dumb.

Manipulation is not an issue with academic prowess. It's an issue with being hit in the heart
You can make reforms for education all you want, making kids do more schoolwork and more long form media consumption and they will still be victim to bias.

People who think racism or LGBT phobia is a matter of poor education are self-deceived.

>You're acting like this is a "what is available issue" and not a curation issue: as in, what is locally available to the user as presented to them. You're acting like it's a moral failing that they didn't choose to get into web surfing and protocol-based social media rather than look at the big sites their friends told them about that turned out to be specifically designed to curate these things to them.

You're making the typical mistake that adults make about children: generalizing.
Most kids are not radicalized by left or right wing media.
The kids that chose the alt right pipeline are a certain socio-psychological type

Also kids still do web surfing what are you talking about.

>Wasn't anywhere near prominent as it became post-centralization of the web. Effectively nonexistent compared to today.

Are you sure?
Because I feel a lot of the radicalization of the youth is exaggerated.
You're also forgetting that the definition of left and right has changed.

>>758176
>They believe that they are NOT because of their age, which irony is makes them so susceptible.

Ftfy

>>758176
>And again, this belief that "youth is innocence/tabula rasa" is the reason why.
Personal choice doesn't exist for adults at scale either, it's just the thread topic is about YouTube grifters that had a primarily children audience.

You can't have trillions of people make a choice and not see the shape of the river informing the flow of the water. No individual particle in that flow matters.
>They believe that they are because of their age, which irony is makes them so susceptible.
Yes.
>I guess the educational system was shitty in the 1930s and 40s to have so many Nazi sympathizers in the US.
Yes.
>A lot of our extremists are not as poorly educated as you think.
The educated ones join think tanks and/or become grifters, thus their own opinion ceases to matter in the red tape of the former and the incentives of the latter.
>Academia was rife with misogyny and racism.
>Americas Founding Fathers were all educated men who thought that Anglos were the only superior race and everyone else was dumb.
There's material incentives to perpetuate those kinds of inequalities, i.e.
- mysogyny ceates wage caps and occupational segregation, making the bread-winner man heterosexual household, thus allowing the bourgoise to extract surplus from both while only paying the man
- racism is a major component in blockbusting, where houses are bought in minority neighborhoods and left purposefully unmaintained to drive down property value, then high property value white neighborhoods are informed a black will be moving in to force panic sales by the narrative that it is because they're black that their neighborhoods are in shambles.
- etc…

…thus personal opinion of the perpetrators cease to be relevant because it can't be proven if it's a grift or not.
>the heart
The base and superstructure mutually maintain each other, with the base being dominant.
>Also kids still do web surfing what are you talking about.
Thankfully, and It's had an uptick lately, but seems like even the kids are aware of the habit to just stick to like 5 sites. They've been promoting web surfing to each other lately, which I think is nice.

>>758186
You think Ehud Barak tried to do any shady things to those special forces members?

>>758241
And public access radio/TV broadcasting

>>758215
It's an information curation issue. This shit was not happening when those kids (and some adults) were still using RSS feeds and manually curating shit. The Google Reader incident funneled those kids (and some adults) to using YouTube's built-in curation system.

That's not an "innocence" thing because innocence is an individualist concept, and does not exist at scale.

If you show someone a blue tinted window to the world, they'll think they live in a blue world.

>>757836
but these people shifted their content before the MAGA cult really took off.
>>757991
>Perfect example because sargon was always and still is just a lib.
Is being a RW socialist who quotes Marx and Engels something liberals are known for doing?

>>758291
> but these people shifted their content before the MAGA cult really took off.

What year?

>>758304
Somewhere before COVID, though anyone who was even remotely trying to be neutral stopped doing so after January 6th.

>>758326
2018-19 then?

>>757299
Honestly speaking if not for his racism nuSargon can be a bog standard socialist. Marx does have a very monist view of humanity which makes him reject any permanent, external cultural institutions (wrongly potrayed by conservatives to be "Communism is pro deadbeat dads and moms abandoning their kids!") but there are many leftists who are not into that and are still very much in the Left. The Lacanians like Zizek are classic examples of this.

>>758378
>>757299
Not surprising, even Carl Schmitt acknowledged Marx as a great thinker. Sargon realized the objective fact that capitalism undermines the family, society and the state. It makes sense for many billionaires to prefer cheaper foreign labor rather than employing their own countrymen. And since Marxism was one of the most complete forms of critique of capitalist liberal society, it also makes sense for any truly serious right-wing theorist to understand it.