/siberia/ - Off-topic

The proletariat has existed since slave times, but was never revolutionary until capitalist relations organized it into socialized production for wage-labor. It is through socialized productive work that the proletariat develops any class consciousness at a decent scale and has any means to punch the bourgeoisie.
If the proletariat in ancient rome was unable to be revolutionary because they had no leverage over anything relating to production why would it be different for the modern lumpen. At most they can cause a shitflinging riot but that's not "revolutionary", it doesn't actually institute a revolutionary new social order.

the lumpenproletariat is also a "transient" state for the majority of those people,because you can't really live on nothing,so they either end up in crime,or work without a contract and become a prole,even if they're homeless or whatever
the exception is living on gibs if you're disabled,but you can easily recognize why they're both unfit to revolt,and have a lot to lose from the state breaking down if they don't have a community to help them during the transitional period

This position needs re-examined now that AI and automation will take all jobs.

>>759584
It needed to be reexamined even before that. The term was never properly defined, its connotations more moral than economic. Maybe there was some value to that category back then proletariat was mostly synonym with industrial proletariat, but in a post-industrial economy I dont see much use for it.

>>759577
Cause he was (rightly) pissed at the Parisan lumpen. The real truth is that the lumpen are like the petite bourgois, it's in their class interest to join the proletariat struggle, but it's kind of a coin toss as to whether or not they will. I sympathize far more with the lumpen though, being that i come from lumpen and have variably been one throughout my life.
Basically, he was partly right, maybe unfairly harsh, but given the context he had that i don't see what other conclusion he would've drawn.
Black panthers were lumpen though.

OP, do you think they called him"karl" way back when or do you think even when he was alive people called hom "karl marx"? Like when his mum called him down for din din was she all like "KARL YOUR TENDIES ARE READY!"

>>759616
Also this is what Karl Marx's mum looks like"

Lumpen are those who would benefit the most from revolution but also the ones most easily bought.
You can recruit hobos to disrupt communist organization by just giving them 10 dollars each.

So much Marx's works is fluff and poetry. He's trying to convey very technical concepts yet was terrible at technical writing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_writing

Yet when you criticize this people think you're suggesting dumbing it down, when that's far from the case. Literally just organize it better, use consistent language, cut the pop culture references, designate the poetic shit where it ought remain in visually distinct asides, use marginalia where appropriate, etc…