/siberia/ - Off-topic

Nope, humans all over the world have very consistent standards for what is attractive. Blackpill is not just about "boohoo women are not attracted to manlets" but also mainly the observation of hypergamy in modern society, the extreme difficulty of obtaining sexual and romantic relationships for low status men, the gigantic body counts for even average looking women compared to average men.

"Male gaze" on the other hand is not a serious complaint. It's a misandrist phrase used by women who resent the fact that men also have beauty standards (as opposed to spreading some delusional belief of "all women are beautiful"). Complaints about male gaze is therefore a complaint against the very biological and social nature of what a man is.

There is zero misogyny inherent to blackpill ideology. It's a factual description of reality and makes zero moral statements. It's almost refreshingly materialist compared to virtually every other modern thought movement.

>>773271 (me)

Just for the record, I am a communist, I'm not a chud. I just don't consider blackpill/red pill/dating woes to be relevant to the communist struggle, therefore I don't blindly ignore it or moralistically oppose it like other communists. Communism will definitely resolve some of the financial aspects and individualist aspects of these problems, but the primary biological problem will still remain. Nevertheless, as I stated, this is a problem that is orthogonal to communism and not something worth becoming either a fascist or a shitlib about.

>>773273
The Gen Z dating struggle is a consequence of capitalist alienation, the Trotskyites were right in promoting their dating events. That's the future of youth appeal.

>>773271
Vro you are doing the same bullshit i described, dismissing the other party's concern and privileging your position.

Ok, i will give you this. We moids are on the short end of the stick here. Our education attainment rate is falling, and for all the talk about gender equality all the low and menial jobs are still reserved for moids only. Low status men are trapped in the vicious cycle of menial jobs, precarious living, and no bitches.

But if that is all there is, how do you explain the existence of clavicular? Or all the ItsOver/suifuel shit thrown at anyone who is not 6'2???

>>773276
Genuine misogyny exists. The oppression of women in highly religious countries. Rape and gendered violence. Lower wages for similar work etc etc.

But "male gaze" is not it. It's made up misandrist BS. "Male gaze" is basically a complaint that men find certain physical and behavioral features attractive, and claim that this is a moral failing on the part of men to have these desires. It chides men for simply being men.

I agree that the black pill ideology is also used in gender war BS and I agree that many blackpillers are misogynist. But the core blackpill theses are just plain observations of reality.

>>773277
>"Male gaze" is basically a complaint that men find certain physical and behavioral features attractive
In its original context of media criticism, male gaze describes basically the way some male targeted media, especially "lesbian" content, positions women's bodies in a way, that only makes sense in relation to a presumed male viewer. The more general statement, derived from that, isn't "men have preferences", it's the fact that these images and the underlying cultural symbolism actively construct the notion of a woman, that usually men are attracted to and women aspire to.

Pushback against the "male gaze" is then rarely a condemnation of "having preferences", but is meant to highlight the artificiality of these expectations and in some cases a refusal of women to conform to them, either in the sense of rejecting some of the traditional baggage of heterosexuality or not looking to attract men in the first place.

That is NOT what male gaze is. Please check out the original essay (https://monoskop.org/images/c/c6/Mulvey_Laura_1975_Visual_Pleasure_and_Narrative_Cinema.pdf), it is a short 13 page read. Now I understand that in social media discourse the term is often used to mean just "things that men like", but there is no reason to perpetuate the misuse.

>>773285
I think it's a good example, since from the way they're contorting to kiss, while showing basically the same pose to the viewer, to the giant fucking banana, it pratically oozes male gaze.

>>773271
This. I travel a lot and even lived in a few different countries. Women’s standards are pretty consistent. They all like tall, muscular (like Brad Pitt in Flight Club) guys. There’s also a notable preference for whiteness.

>>773288
In typical female fashion, male gaze is a non issue women exaggerate to feel oppressed. It’s like the concept of “mental labor”.

>>773283
>In its original context of media criticism, male gaze describes basically the way some male targeted media, especially "lesbian" content, positions women's bodies in a way, that only makes sense in relation to a presumed male viewer.
So it is about male preference

>Pushback against the "male gaze" is then rarely a condemnation of "having preferences", but is meant to highlight the artificiality of these expectations
So it is whining about what men find attractive in them

>not looking to attract men in the first place.
This is patently absurd. If they do not want to attract why do they care about how males potray women? Do you think gay peeps rant about how hetmoids are potrayed in female media?

It is much more honest to say people do not like the sexual preference of the other gender. Sexual preference are not artificial constructs; it is our own gender identity that is artificial, and this artificiality is destroyed by the raw reality of the Other's jouissance. Trying to deny that is just hypocrisy, like women who complain about the supposedd dehumanizing aspect of the male gaze but say nothing about how men are potrayed in female centric media as basically burly patriarchal brutes who are toxic to everyone else *but* the female self insert character, like come on

>>773321
>So it is about male preference
Come on! Don't be obtuse.

Male gaze also goes beyond simple objectification, as it determines the way a scene is framed. Quoting from the essay in question:
>An active/passive heterosexual division of labour has similarly controlled narrative structure. According to the principles of the ruling ideology and the psychical structures that back it up, the male figure cannot bear the burden of sexual objectification. Man is reluctant to gaze at his exhibitionist like. Hence the split between spectacle and narrative supports the man's role as the active one of forwarding the story, making things happen. The man controls the film phantasy and also emerges as the representative of power in a further sense: as the bearer of the look of the spectator, transferring it behind the screen to neutralise the extradiegetic tendencies represented by woman as spectacle. This is made possible through the processes set in motion by structuring the film around a main controlling figure with whom the spectator can identify. As the spectator identifies with the main male protagonist, he projects his look on to that of his like, his screen surrogate, so that the power of the male protagonist as he controls events coincides with the active power of the erotic look, both giving a satisfying sense of omnipotence. A male movie star's glamorous characteristics are thus not those of the erotic object of the gaze, but those of the more perfect, more complete, more powerful ideal ego conceived in the original moment of recognition in front of the mirror.

i'm glad all of you will die sexless and alone because your incessant whining ruined this board.

the real blackpill is capital, I will never lower myself to hating on a gender, shit is stupid.

the reason men and women are alone and sad is that capitalism stole their future and prospects, you can't buy a house, rent is too high and third places are replaced by consumerism, of course it's harder to find love, capitalism stole your relationships.

>>773369
i'd love for these sexless whiners to actually have sex just to come to the realization that fucking isn't a miracle cure for their misery.

>>773390
And the cosmeticians and surgeons profit off blackpilled cucks who actually think that only looks would get you a girlfriend, because these cucks would get plastic surgery and medication just to make them more attractive - even if it means worsening your quality of life.

>>773392
I've heard somewhere that the best way to de-center sex from your life is to actually have sex. Having said that the bigger whiners are those that have had a bit of sex or just romantic relationships and want more or want the type of relations that they desire but haven't received. At least that's what it seems to me.

blackpill theology is not real because women are very goofy and will find you attractive because of something you said once that you don't even remember

>>773360
In the second video, what is the scene in between 1:57 - 2:08 from?

>>773402
tumblr-anecdote based analysis

>>773273
It's not fascist because you so desperately want the approval of pedo mods who don't give a fuck about you anyway

In the grand scheme of things yes, it isn't directly tied to proletariat struggle. It is more so than many other identity politics however

You work your ass off don't you? Shouldn't you be able to have a wife and kids without humiliation rituals, bullshit, and some faggot janny telling you you cannot directly complain about women? How about the faggot janny have to live your life for a day and do all the work you gotta do and you kick him in the mud for being problematic?

The fact is you'd much rather be liberated and self autonomous in the industrial world where you have more say in the job you're stuck doing and i get that.

Buy inceldom and black pill IS Marxist.

>>773408
Ok, found it, its Memento. Gonna watch it just for how insanely hot that woman is.

>>773284
aight dawg imma read this
>scopophilia is a thing (i.e. PEOPLE take pleasure in looking at objects)
>at the extreme, nibbas really be out here objectifying hoes an' shieeet cuz ain't no other way to get off
>movies do be separated from da viewer an' shieet, cuz they crafted to be majikkal phantasies what play into a nibbas voyeuristic tendencies
>when u a kid, an u look in da mirror, y'all think what y'all see is dis real ass nibba an' shieet, cuz y'all thinkin' y'all still basic
>so y'all be projectin' dat perfect image of wat y'all see onto others frfr ong no cap
>an it dis what allow u to identify wit another nibba, like such as on screen in a move
>so when y'all pervy nibbas out here pervin' on dem movie screen hoes, u bein' both narcissistic (cuz u be identifyin' wit dat hoe) AND voyeuristically objectifyin' (cuz u do be lookin' at dat hoe in a sexual way in shieeet, for ur own sight pleasure), which really do be a dehumanization of dat hoe
>but y'all gone put y'alls gratification first before y'all do be identifyin' with dat hoe, which mean you sorta unconsciously doin' one more than da other
>so a lotta movies really do be out here making tha dude the protagonist, and he can never be objectified cuz dat shits icky dawg, plus dem dudes in da audience be identifyin' wit dat nibba on screen, cuz he a idealized representation of his self
>and bitches an' hoes really do just be eye candy for both him and the viewer
iunno dawg, this sounds kinda redarded, cause like, it's just nature dawg. dudes be lookin' at women all the time, even when I go out for groceries an shieet. and look, I'm a stand up guy, I'm not tryna invade y'all personal space so I do try to be discreet bout my oogling and whatever.

it really do sound like this wymmyn what wrote dis be trippin' cause dudes gonna cast a gaze at a pretty lady's assets, but I guess it do be true that a lotta older films be centered round a male protagonist an shieeet, but whateva dawg, they a lot of films for wymmyn too. y'all ain't be considerin' dat dudes gone look even witout dem so called 'voyeuristic-scopophilic elements of traditional filmic pleasure' cause y'all can dress up in a burka an imma still be pervin' on yo' ass. also
>wymmyn are symbolic of castration
lol wut