No.7169
>Relationship general 2
No.
No.7170
>Another data point towards my undesirability.
Yeah well that‘s an atrocious way to rationalize it and you will just make it harder for yourself in the future. I‘m not going to be naïve and say you shouldn‘t think this way, because changing your psychology isn‘t that easy. If you had so much negative feedback so far that you believe you are undesirable that isn‘t easily changed with a snap of a finger of course, but at least you shouldn‘t consciously play into it and make it worse. There is no deeper meaning to rejections when you make your first move on a girl. Some girls will be into you, some won‘t. Some girls are available, some aren‘t. If anything I would urge you to approach girls all the time to desensitize yourself to rejection and when you have a night where some girls weren‘t feeling it and some girls were really into you then you will realize the grander meaninglessness of a rejection. Chin up.
No.7172
Fuck off
No.7175
Just try your hardest man, maybe you will meet that 1 in a hundred girl that fetishizes you, or just take the capitalist solutions of roiding and surgery
No.7176
>>7173Wouldn't work.
Socialist girls are chad only. Most socialist men aren't chad.
No.7177
>>7172Well thats mean.
>>7169Look, we can either have a single general, or a dozen threads dealing with the same topic, pick your poison.
>>7175Not ugly. Also, I am fine with just hanging out completely platonically, its just I seem to be undesirable for that one also.
No.7178
>>7176*All girls are chad only. Most men aren't chads
No.7179
>>7178I was about to say…Also socialist girls will flip to liberal at best once they find doctorlawyerprofessionalathleteartistmuscian Chad.
No.7182
>>7180OP if you're an incel and haven't started to resent women on some level then you must be a sociopath. Anger is a normal reaction to what they put us through.
No.7183
frequent sex haver who has had many fufilling and healthy relationships + general good fortune with dating ama
No.7184
>>7168>"Uhm, you know, I got stuff, have to do schoolwork, there is a lot of it…"<Oh do you want to study together sometime?Christ OP, you just going to give up like that?
This is the problem with this attitude. Some people are genuinely busy or have a lot going on so they're no necessarily in the mood, so you gotta try harder
Also don't listen to incels when it comes to dating and relationships
No.7186
>>7184Man, learn to read subtext.
>>7182My feeling towards women is little bit of resentment and great deal on envy. No anger though.
No.7187
>>7186>Girl<I'm busy tonight>You<That's it this will never go anywhere why even tryI'm telling you to stop being weak and try harder.
I've slept with women that weren't immediately into me. I've convinced dudes to cheat on their GFs with me. (And women on their husbands/boyfriends)
This is a recurring pattern with incels. You give up to soon. And the slightest pushback sends you spiraling into depression
No.7188
>>7168>>7184this guy has the right idea. fuck bitches, then one day you end up not kicking one out of bed and decide to keep her around. have little chadlets. have a normie life and forget about class struggle or anything like that. falling in love is garbage. so far I've been nothing but depressed and hit rock bottom.
No.7189
>>7187problem is chad when incels push they come off as creepy and stalkerish there must be something else going on.
No.7190
>>7187sounds pretty rapey
No.7191
>>7187No no you did not do any of that anon
No.7192
>>7185OP just knows how to take a hint. If she wanted to, she could suggest a time she is free.
No.7193
>>7192Clearly not if he’s equating someone else doing there own thing on par with being called flat out unlikeable
No.7194
>>7192>she could suggest a time she is free.He could have as well
No.7195
>>7193I guess is conclusion about himself could be incorrect. But he's right about her not being interested.
>>7194She already made herself clear. Anything other than an obvious yes is no. Unless you want to risk being seen as a creep at best or be charged with sexual harrassment.
No.7196
>>7194This is not how you do it, you should probe first, about her time, when her free days are, and what she is going to do on them, what she likes to do in her free time, etc, just make conversation about it, what she says she has a free day you go for it and ask, she will say yes, in which case you are in, and if she says no, then she will probably make something up, in which case, you will know for sure it is an excuse, in which case you retreat and asses, if this is really someone you have a non negative chance with, and if yes then try to go back to flirting, etc. and if no, just move on, be realistic, not over pessimistic.
If on the other hand, she never has time, she might just be very busy, or she might see the invitation coming and be shutting you down, in both cases retreat, and flirt, see if she ever responds to flirting, and try to make a move later
No.7197
>>7196Wow that sounds fucking creepy beyond belief and way more time consuming than just flat out asking to go on a date with someone
No.7198
Where did all these PUA incels come from
No.7199
>>7198Considering the IP count most likely it’s shitloads of randos shitposting and 2 dudes giving garbage advice either for approval or to fuck with OPs life for shits and giggles.
No.7200
>>7195>Unless you want to risk being seen as a creep at best or be charged with sexual harrassment.Part of being successful with women/dudes is not caring about this
>Anything other than an obvious yes is noIt doesn't work like that. Sometimes you gotta do more to win them over
>>7196>just make conversation about itI felt this was already implied
>>7198They never left. It's just less obvious nowadays because outright misogyny and /pol/ shit will have you gulaged
No.7201
If you're an incel, focus on friendships first, get social/extrovert friends that you can go out or organize parties with. I learned a lot from my (older) friends and brothers
Which is another recurring pattern I've noticed with incels; a lack of offline male rolemodels with enough experience to teach them how things work. Not just fathers, but brothers, friends, etc
No.7202
>>7197Date adults for once, you'll realise that not everybody has the disposition to say yes 24/7, even if they like you. they might need some time to get to know you better, or not be in the mood.
Also literally every romantic advance will seem creepy to the wrong person, if you go in with the mentality of "i don't want to seem creepy" then you'll never make a move. Just make sure to never break consent, and don't bother people who don't want to be bothered and sto giving a shit about what people think.
>>7200was it though? some people have never dated anon, they need things spelled out for them
No.7203
>>7168Is this your first time being rejected or what? That's the hardest way to get dates. First MAKE FRIENDS. Then the rest will follow. Yes, even female friends.
No.7204
>>7201Advice for the under 25 crowd. At least OP does have a chance of turning it around since he's in college.
No.7205
>>7203I've always found this advise puzzling. Yeah sure, in some kind of hypothetical state of nature, where people have to hunt for 2 hours, and pick berries for 1, then yes, but a lot of people have no time and work for 50+ h, and even if you find time, society deprives you of ways of making friends
No.7207
>>7205What the fuck are you talking about lol
No.7208
>>7206Not really. You got the internet, what kinda friends you want to make? IRL friends. I guess making a random friend with a person with no particular common interests is harder than having some common interest. I guess you would have to imagine why you are trying to make friends with this person? Because they are you neighbor? Because they are a coworker?
I dunno, these are not problems I have. People just like me.
No.7209
>>7206I'll be your friend
No.7210
>>7208I'm well liked, sociable, and charismatic. Making friends is still hard. Maybe you're just out of college or something or mostly hang out with childhood friends. I have to put in lots of work for it and just like losing weight or going to the gym, it feels like you make 0 progress all the time and you can't help but wonder if the effort is doing anything towards your goal. It takes a lot of work.
No.7211
>>7210That's good mate. I dunno what you're talking about per se. I've never been fat in my life, I dunno what the workout portion means. But at the same time I know there are people thirsty for human interaction everywhere. I don't know how to entertain them. I guess I have my own addictions to it, posting online. But still You can make a million friends. It's just tiring. I like not feeling tied to anyone in the slightest, hence posting on anonymous message boards.
No.7212
>>7211Ok I love you all. God bless. Keep the faith. I don't know what to say.
This universe wasn't made to torture us. That's my original message.
No.7213
>get some female friends Utterly pointless nowadays, outside professional and workplace friendships.
>>7182I've stopped resenting women a while ago because I got to the conclusion all this shit is generational, if you're a zoomer or even a millennial like me you're prone to be completely ignored or even silently despised if they feel you're trying.
No.7214
i just kept hitting my head againt the wall and now my ears don't stop ringing…
No.7215
>>7211All good mate, just wanted to give another perspective.
No.7216
>>7206Its harder to make friemiddle/high school. At least in adulthood, you have freedom to choose your friemds. Not when youre a student. You habe to stay stuck in the same social position due to not having any money or connections of your own due to being dependent on your parents.
No.7217
>>7201Modern society juruuns masculinty with the endless checklist of Herculean chores to achieve.
Men are never really allowed to be themsleves. Theyre always told that theyre fucking up somewhere. Espexially when it comes to heterosexual romance.
No.7218
I asked out a friend the other day and she said that she didn't have time to date people (which is fair enough, as she is insanely busy) and that she had struggled to find chemistry with anyone for years. I feel much better for having asked her, as the thought had been lingering at the back of my head for months, though part of me wonders what this chemistry is she's looking for; maybe more sexual attraction? We get on really well and enjoy each other's company, so I'm not sure what else there is. She's said that she wants me to invite her along next time my band plays or I'm going to one of our mutual's gigs, so at least she's still keen on being friends.
No.7219
>Try to meet women in hobbies
>Join party, no women
>Go drawing, no women (except grannies)
>Scouts, no women
>Work, no women
>Go to bar, people dont talk to strangers
>Go to protest/occupations, dont really get into conversation with strangers because im not hyper social and i need to get to know people for a bit before being able to open up
>don't even know what to do even if i am attracted to someone
No.7220
>>7219You should make friends, not look for people to hook up with in hobbies and shit. Your friends give you validation in bars, so other people know you are trusted by others. And you friends will invite their friends or invite you with their friends. I just got integrated into 3 different large groups of friends through friends in the past 2 years, for example. I also work hard for it.
No.7222
>>7220God I hate that so much when someone suggests something like that. How do you think people that have barely ever made so much as a connection are supposed to make friends just off the bat? Do you assume lonely people never try at all to reach out but either fail to find someone to talk to or simply don’t know what to do when they’re in a position where they have the opportunity to form bonds with others
No.7223
>>7218>maybe more sexual attraction?Yes.
No.7226
>>7224Right so telling crystal cafe about this board was a
HUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEEEEE fucking mistake and is destroying my self worth.
I mean, are we seriously at the point where a sub 6 man asking out a woman makes her so upset that she considers paying ten fucking grand for plastic surgery to try and attract chad? If this is where the human race is at we deserve mass alienation and rising suicide rates tbh.
No.7227
>>7226dont beat yourself up. what's done is done, and now that it is done, history will show that it was dialectically necessary for it to be done.
No.7228
>>7226Sexhavers (and would-be sexhavers) are just plain evil. Take solace in knowing that you are better than them.
No.7229
>>7227Good point Shay. I guess we are living in the final days of a decaying society, but we just have to hope that what comes out of it will be better.
>>7228Sociopaths. The lot of them.
No.7230
>>7226? Didn't find leftypol through crystal cafe I don't even know what the fuck that is, I've been here sporadically since literally 8chan/xyz split, I just don't include in my posts "hey guys I am a woman here to talk about politics teehee"
That's so nice, so you're saying you would date a woman who was uglier/fatter than you? I wouldn't, but great for you anon
>>7228I've never had sex but that's actually another problem because the non-ugly men I do attract are completely run through
No.7231
>>7230>I've never had sex but that's actually another problem because the non-ugly men I do attract are completely run throughBruh, so you are just picky like typical incels, lmao.
No.7232
>>7230>date a woman who was uglier than youThis is not an issue for me since such a woman does not exist.
No.7233
>>7230>That's so nice, so you're saying you would date a woman who was uglier/fatter than you?In a heartbeat, because I'm not some spooked retard and I actually value personality over some gay beauty standards. You should try not being such a bitch anon, then maybe chad would like you.
>>7231>so you are just picky like typical incelsMost incels are more than happy to settle for their looksmatch. The issue is that their looksmatch won't settle for them and is too interested in chasing after chad. Prime example right here.
No.7234
Not sex/not romantic relationship-related, but still a social question. An employee at a convenience store I visit weekly (and would like to work at someday, just because it's the same shit and same pay as my current job but the transit's shorter) wants to hang out with me and I've been delaying giving him an answer. He's a guy, I'm a dyke, but he doesn't know I'm gay yet. I really just want to be alone and focus on my personal studies, but he seems nice and maybe I ought to be more sociable, although I'm not sure what, if anything, we would have in common. I'm eccentric and very guarded IRL. It's not as though this is my only option for social interaction either–I can join a local org if I really want to and this year I might. What I'm trying to say is, should I give him my number or decline the offer, and what should I say in either case?
No.7235
>>7231>why are you so picky what do you mean you don't want some herpes-infested fuckboy who now wants to settle down?>>7232Sorry about your condition, but I don't think men who aren't fat can be that ugly. When I describe only attracting ugly men I am talking mainly about men who are fat or don't brush their teeth. If you're fat you can just lose the weight and look a lot better
>>7233>In a heartbeat, because I'm not some spooked retard and I actually value personality over some gay beauty standardsJesus christ, can't you just be honest? I don't believe you for a second that you'd date someone you weren't attracted to. What the fuck is even the point of that, you don't want to fuck them so you'll never have sex, it's basically a friendship.
>Most incels are more than happy to settle for their looksmatch. The issue is that their looksmatch won't settle for them and is too interested in chasing after chad. Prime example right here.How do you know I'm your looksmatch lmao, you haven't even seen me? Aren't you the one implying you're ugly? Post pic, I look like the average woman from France
No.7236
>>7234just tell him ur gay.
No.7237
>>7234Having friends/social support network is good, even if you're not banging them
>>7235What about just having fun? You don't need to settle down. And sometimes you only find out you really want someone after you become friends/get involved casually
No.7238
so wahts the deal with a whole "BPD art hoe" thing is it even a real thing
just wondering cuz im in the talking stage with some(like actual confirmed BPD). Is it really as bad as random posters say it is?
No.7239
>>7235>I don't believe you for a second that you'd date someone you weren't attracted toIt's possible to be attracted to people who are "uglier" than you. And attraction isn't just about looks.
>How do you know I'm your looksmatch lmao, you haven't even seen me?I didn't say that you are, retard. I was implying that your looksmatch is probably one of those "ugly" guys who you keep turning away. If chad wanted you he would make it clear, get that plastic surgery or settle for less, those are your options. Superficial bitch.
>I look like the average woman from FranceYeah so the key word you should reeeaaaally be focusing on here is "average".
No.7240
>>7238art hoes were considered hot a decade ago, idk what happened
No.7241
>>7178it would fucking great if we could actually talk about sex and relationships in the sex and relationsjip general but ig we get incel bitching and moaning instead
No.7242
>>7241This
>>7238>BPDI've learned to hard avoid these types. Emotional rollercoaster and you're bound to get ditched for something petty
No.7243
>>7237I have a lot of body issues + I can't be on hormonal or IUD birth control, so my only option is to be with somebody I trust. Sporadic casual sex is also not going to cut it, I have a consistently high sex drive.
Guys who sleep around are used to condomless sex so they'd not be interested and their lifestyle is very disgusting to me so it's just not an option. Plus men who sleep around are way more likely to cheat so it's a waste to invest time in them. There's truth in the red pill stuff it's just that it's true for both genders.
>>7239>your looksmatch is probably one of those "ugly" guys who you keep turning awayWhy would my looksmatch be fat when I'm not fat and work out a lot? Why would my looksmatch not brush his teeth when I brush my teeth 2x a day? These are the guys I'm attracting. I'm just going to stop responding to you because you're trapped in incel worldview. The funniest thing to me was that I actually used to be friends with incels and many of them weren't even virgins so technically I'm probably more of an "incel" than you
>"average"I'm not attracting average guys though as I said before (of course you can't read when gender is involved due to incel rage), I am attracting total whores or men who don't brush their teeth. The average guy from France is hot to me.
I'll probably get plastic surgery but not because you told me to, you're being very hostile, sexist, and weird here, and making a lot of assumptions. Have a good day!
>>7238I talked briefly to a guy with BPD. Unfortunately would not recommend, you never really know where you stand with them and they usually don't have super stable relationships unless they're in treatment. Same with the bipolars
No.7244
>>7238For a casual, fun relationship? Absolutely!
To move in together?
Forget about it No.7245
>>7243You're the one bitching about not being able to get laid and talking about getting plastic surgery to improve your facial features, yet I'M the ideological incel? Seriously?
>I'm not attracting average guys thoughYour perception of what is "average" is most likely skewed while you're overestimating how attractive you are. Either that or you give off a really bad aura that scares away normal men. Which of these seems more likely?
>I'll probably get plastic surgery but not because you told me to, you're being very hostile, sexist, and weird hereIf that's the case then you're being misandrist and objectifying men.
>and making a lot of assumptionsNot even ten minutes ago you assumed I was trying to fuck you lmao.
No.7246
>>7243That is not an average but an average of multiple faces, which makes it unusually symmetric, which is known to be attractive. I'm sorry but that blurry face is actually unnaturally attractive.
No.7247
>>7246I meant to write that it is not an "average guy" but somehow left that word out.
No.7248
>>7243>Complaining about attracting fat ugly men>complaining about attracting promiscous menare you the same anon from the other day with the same issues?
In either case, either you are being too repellent when talking to them, or you are just not that attractive or haven't tried enough, do you have autism?
No.7249
>>7236>>7237Do you think he'll believe that I'm really gay and it's not a weaselly attempt to let him down gently (from sex/dating)? I just want to stay on good terms with people, even though I don't like socializing with them.
No.7250
>>7249 (me)
Not that anyone here could have some magical personal insight about this guy, so I'm really asking what would
you think since most of you are men.
No.7251
>>7249I would just take what you said at face value.
No.7252
>>7248Funny that her responses were even weirder than last thread, she posted an AI-generated to say "I look like this and that is my type of men".
No.7253
>>375082
People have always been emotional and naturally immature in their own ways anon. Coincidentally there are plenty of mature self sustaining adults present in the real world aswell
No.7254
>>7252Do you have the picture?
No.7255
>>7254I referred to
>>7235, sorry for the third-world ESL.
No.7256
>>7242>Emotional rollercoaster and you're bound to get ditched for something pettyExact same thing happened to me twice hahahaha
I'm never giving loonies any other chances, fuck them IDGAF
No.7257
>>7249>>7250One would have to be a massive sperg to lie about their sexuality instead of making literally any other excuse so he'll believe you.
>sure let's hang out but just so you know I'm lesbian so don't get your hopes up if you wanted a date No.7258
>>7257>>375268That kind of sucks. I really am a lesbian. I didn't take it into account that anyone reading that post would miss the original where I said that I am (
>>7234 ). I have no idea how clockable I am IRL. Almost not at all, probably–women only hit on me if they know, and only on closer inspection if people cared enough to look for signs would most be able to pick out how I differ from most straight women my age. (Bisexual women too? I don't know.)
No.7259
Recently I have been developing some good copes. I think I am beginning to finally give up on sex/romance. It just isn't for me, the absurd amount of effort is not worth it. I'm not white or good looking enough for this world. The anger is subsiding regarding this issue. I'm 36 years old, no matter what if I somehow best the hordes of thirsty orbiters/simps for a 6/10 BPD chick, she will have had tons of experience and me absolutely none. It's just not going to work and suicide also seems stupid to let this kill me.
No.7260
>>7258 (me)
I realized I misunderstood the first anon. Two out of three ain't bad so I'll let him know when I get the chance. I didn't tell him outright when he asked me because I've already bluntly told a guy I'm gay when he asked me if I wanted to go to a fireworks show. I could tell it made him feel awkward and he tried to assure me he wasn't asking me on a date so I thought I shouldn't assume things right away or put people on the spot in the future. I still don't know which one's better.
No.7261
>girlfriend cleans up the entire house while I'm at work
>sets up a candlelit bath
>gives me a sensual massage
>lets me hit it every night of the week
>fiercely loyal
Is she wife material or what bros? I love my gf fr
No.7262
>>375308
Guys come into this thread talking about their progress in accepting that they will die alone.
Girl comes in complaining she attracts tons of guys but they're all too ugly for her standards
Its all so tiresome.
No.7263
>>7230>That's so nice, so you're saying you would date a woman who was uglier/fatter than you? I wouldn't, but great for you anonThe majority of guys would, and especially guys who don't look above average. Is this such a surprise to you? Maybe get to know those guys you keep rejecting.
No.7264
>>7224Don't get plastic surgery.
It could also be because all the decent men are already taken.
No.7265
>>7224>Fellas can you give it to me straight, if I am a woman who only attracts very ugly men, does this mean I am also ugly? Do a lot of ugly but confident guys try to shoot out of their league or is it over for me? Im not fat and no facial deformities>I also live in the middle of nowhere so I don't get to meet many men in general. I might be able to afford plastic surgery in a few months, but it would require me to go $10k in debt, should I try that before i give up?I'm not a guy but I'll tell it to you straight. Your entire post is about superficialities. Your complaint is basically that lots of guys like you but they're too ugly for you. I'm sorry but that's not a complaint, and if you're considering plastic surgery over this you probably are mentally spooked, hardcore. Try working on your personality or finding new places to meet guys, or just stop being so judgmental. If you were as attractive as you act you wouldn't have this problem.
No.7266
>>375336
>Once they reach their forties, it's over
t. never banged a milf
No.7267
I'm starting to think newgenes right about romance
No.7269
>>7267Is there anything newgene is not right about?
No.7270
>>7269I have to aks, what is a newgene? A novel replacement for newfag?
No.7271
>>375339
I dont get what is your point, the thread is sex and relationship, old ugly women are not part of the equasion.
No.7272
>>7270It's a poster who is obsessed with making children work.
No.7273
>>7272Not just work, but have them included in the conversation of the human condition.
Innocence is liability not virtue.
No.7274
>>7261You should aspire to be as good to her as she is to you.
No.7275
>>7223I had a feeling that this might be the case, but it still stings to have it confirmed. Oh well; I know women have been attracted to me in the past, so it's not the end of the world.
No.7276
>>7238Yes it's real, and yes, it's as bad as some (but probably not all) posters say it is. I know one that I fell out with ages ago; we both have issues, so it was as much my fault as hers, but every once in a while I decide to re-follow her on on social media and see that she is still doing the same stupid impulsive shit she used to do when we were friends, like going to parties and getting shitfaced after she said she was trying to get clean, jumping into relationships with the dodgiest cunts you can imagine and then going on depressive spirals after they fall apart, that sort of thing.
Your mileage may vary of course, but make sure she's actually making an attempt to improve her mental health before you get into anything serious with her.
No.7277
>It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social existence that determines their consciousness
-Marx
Attractive people's conception of social reality and relationships, both platonic and romantic, is fundamentally not reconcilable with the concept of having knowledgeable empathy for unattractive people, when it comes to giving relationship advice. They are like a bourgeois suggesting a proletarian simply start a business to survive. They do not realize that the things they do to get relationships will not only not work for unattractive people, but in some cases might be counterproductive or even dangerous. But the worst part is, if you call them out on it, they call you bitter and unaccepting of their advice.
After all, they succeeded where you failed, so their advice is correct, right? But this is wrong, because their advice is based on the lifestyle of an attractive person
Attractive people are the bourgeoisie of gender
No.7278
>>7277if ur gonna quote marx u should know he was against applying economic theory to everythin and only retarded rightwingers talk about le "sexual marketplace"
No.7279
>>7277You can not know whether the person giving you advice on an anonymous board is attractive or not so your pseudery is moot.
No.7280
>>7278>>7279t. very attractive people
No.7281
>>7280why do channers love doin this shit lmfao, if u disagree w/me ur the very same outgroup i was whining about!!!!!!!!
No.7282
>>7281absolute gigachad vibes
No.7285
>>7284>(if you have friends to hangout)That's absolutely not a cope then.
No.7288
>>7284>>7285You have deeply intimate psychological needs that are usually fulfilled in a relationship. When you try to outsource that to friendships you will just end up being needy or weird, while your friends in relationships won't need that level of intimacy from you than you need from them.
No.7289
Always take me a little bit aback when fuckboys/chads give dating advice, and it boils down to "be more repey/creepy, … but while being attractive".
And I am taken even more aback when women validate such advice, either by claiming that men need to prove their masculinity by assertiveness, or saying how being "too easy" would make the woman in question "a slut".
My conclusion is that just like there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, there's no non-sexist courtship under patriarchy.
The entire dating "game" under the patriarchy revolves around the man brutishly coercing the woman into "giving up" access to intimacy.
Now, this coercion could take many forms, from straight up rape to other forms of "soft" power projection, including financial, social, physical, etc. But the undeniable, shared and common framework of these interactions is that the man must be "assertive" and "take" what he wants while the woman must "resist" and inevitably "give up" her sexuality.
In no way am I implying something like "women want to be dominator hurr durr" or anything of the like. What I'm saying is that our entire framework, and social language for establishing sexual relations, is modeled after a dynamic that resembles rape. "Rape" in the sense that the man is supposed to "take" what the woman "doesn't want to give".
In this framework, what is ought to be an equal and egalitarian relationship, ends up reproducing a regressive and barbaric power dynamic of those who "take" sex and those who must "submit / give up" sex
And just like how workers without class consciousness unwittingly reproduce their own exploitation, women under patriarchy also perpetuate this coercive/rapey system, where men who are not rapey enough are seen as meek, or weak, or beta, or "not committed" or whatever, etc. etc.
Well, as an enlightened Incel (who reads theory), just like I don't buy iPhones, or diamonds, or other luxury goods, I won't take "that's just the system we live under lmao" as an excuse.
I refuse to participate in this patriarchal system, where I am expected to assert myself aggressively upon other human beings to "earn" sex.
Fuck that. That shit's gross.
I'd rather stay a virgin.
No.7290
>>7289>My conclusion is that just like there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, there's no non-sexist courtship under patriarchy.This really made me think a thought.
No.7291
>>7289>and it boils down to "be more repey/creepySpecific examples?
No.7292
>>7289your right
1930s William z foster's birth strike
2023 time for a relationship strike.
No.7294
>>7293What exactly is rape-y or creepy about it?
No.7295
>>7294Yoiu kinda have to just feel the vibe on that one.
Maybe I'm just projecting, but when someone asks me something, and I answer, that's my final answer. Any further prodding, and I interpret that as you being a cunt, not respecting my wishes, and trying to manipulate/bully me into doing something I don't want to.
I extend this notion of respect to everyone else, including women.
So, to me, if a woman tells you "no", but you keep going, it indicates one of the following:
1. You think the person doesn't know what they want and you must "convince" them that they actually want what you want. Creepy.
2. You don't actually care what the other person wants, and you just want them to go along with your desires due to social pressure. Rapey.
3. You think you're playing this "social game" where the woman has to go "no no" before she goes "yes yes", and it's all this unspoken social dance. Like the girl is "testing you out" for confidence, and you're "testing her out" for purity / chastity or whatever. Well this "dance" is dumb as fuck and grown adults should know better than to play such childish games that should've been left behind in kindergarden.
No.7296
>>7295I agree with your points but I‘m not seeing any rapeyness in the replies you‘ve listed. I think you are just misunderstanding why men are persistent. Women are either unsure, not feeling it at the moment or it‘s just part of the flirtatious cat and mouse game to be a bit coy.
No.7297
>>7296If I am unsure, I explicitly say so, and postopne the decision. Same if I'm not feeling it.
I think that people who play games and use ambiguity to hide from decisions are immature cowards.
I do not apply double standards to other genders, so if someone says "no", I would rather assume they meant it, than assume they're being a coward. I think the latter is quite sexist.
"Oh you know how women are so indecisive and unsure of themselves and always playing games, they need a MAN to be assertive and make the final decision". No.
Even if it's functionally true I refuse to act like it is.
No.7298
>>7297You remind me of my younger self. I had egalitarian beliefs when it comes to this topic when I was a teenager, but when I started dating and gained experience I started to realize that cliché gender roles still apply when it comes to sexual dynamics, because that‘s what women generally respond to. In hindsight I realized that I missed a bunch of chances with girls in my teenage years because my gender neutral beliefs made me think girls would take just as much initiative as guys usually do when they are into you, but that‘s not the case. Girls are generally pretty passive and only signal to you that they are interested. They expect you to make the moves and lead while showing they are receptive to your advances. Mystery and uncertainty is also exciting to women which is why flirting consists of hinting that you are into the other person without explicitly saying it. You can stretch that cat and mouse game to varying degrees, it‘s a matter of taste in the end. When it comes to women being unsure, that‘s generally the case for younger girls and around mid twenties women tend to be very certain and straight forward. That‘s simply the truth, and I am saying this who had and still has egalitarian values when it comes to men and women.
No.7299
>>7298Well, call it whatever, but at the end of the day it's affirming gender hierarchy to get some sex. That's gross.
Trump's comment about grabbing women by the pussy is also "simply the truth", in his socioeconomic circles. That's not a good thing.
No.7300
I went speed dating recently, and it was pretty terrible. But does anyone else find it weird events like that arent done more often in Burgerstan? Theres countless single young men out there, and enough single women but 0 effort from your average municipality to organize things like that. With this kinda neglect, its almost like USA wants widespread rampant incel terror. What gives?
No.7301
>>7289>And just like how workers without class consciousness unwittingly reproduce their own exploitation, women under patriarchy also perpetuate this coercive/rapey system, where men who are not rapey enough are seen as meek, or weak, or beta, or "not committed" or whatever, etc. etc.As someone living in a population center in the third-world, I haven't met a single woman with that mindset. I wholefully agree the absolute majority of women are spooked with the current trends of capitalism, but most-if-not-all of them are already pursuing their self-interest and personal preferences, that also meaning to take a bit more of initiative regarding relationships. The thing with women is, for their part, they have a dislike for verbalization and prefer subtlety and indirect approach.
Very insightful post, overall.
No.7302
>>7224There's the tier of guys you can get by being retarded and "giving signs" to guys you want and the tier of guys you could get by actually trying.
Also remember, trying also includes sometimes failing. Welcome to being a man.
No.7303
>>7299Your mistake is assuming that being passive makes you "on top in a hierarchy." Being able to stay at home and do like an hour of chores a day and spend the rest of the time NEETing it up is an excellent gig. Women are power bottoms.
Women being passive is so they get to avoid the pains of rejection and feeling undesired. The optimal scenario for a woman is to have a number of suitors who she strings along until the right one proves his worthiness of her.
Might as well say job applicants are on top in the hierarchy because they have to appear strong and confidant to their potential employer.
No.7304
>>7224Listen to
>>7302Stop relying on "attracting" men lol.
If you see a man you find attractive, you make a move. The only men who are moving on women these days are the ones who don't care about boundaries or consent. MeToo has (not without reason) hammered it into the rest of us that women don't like being approached most of the time, so the only men who are still doing that are the ones who don't give a shit. These same men will be "ugly" because they also don't bother with stuff like hygiene and grooming.
>>7289This is accurate and most people are pretty self-aware of it. See the standard key vs lock metaphor. It's not just some unconscious bias, it's consciously believed in as the "nature" of men and women and is ideologically reproduced using that justification.
No.7305
>>7288>You have deeply intimate psychological needs that are usually fulfilled in a relationship.Source?
No.7306
tbqh newgene has helped me accept being "alone" is okay.
No.7307
>>7220I have plenty friends.
"Just make friends" doesn't work when all the friends you manage to make are also fucking losers and nobody invites over seperate friend groups.
No.7308
>>7224Lower your standards, become more proactive, or become incel.
>I am not fat and have no facial deformatiesWow, good on you for clearing the lowest bar for superfacial attractiveness.
No.7309
>>7243>I am not ugly>I do have a lot of body issues (which are probably clearly visible or express themselves in my general health)
>I dont want ugly men that are interested in me, i want studs>All the studs sleep around too muchTypical incel.
>guys who sleep around are used to condomless sexYeah no not really. Its all in your head.
Science has litterally proven that people who are in relationships with people "uglier" than them are happier because they worry less about being cheated on. Given your hyperinsecurity, maybe choose to forego on the "i dont date uggos (probably just avarage guys)" rather than "i dont date studs". Its might be better for you. Getting someone to brush their teeth more is like a 1 week investment, if thats the only thing turning you off from a guy.
No.7310
>>7225If this is actually real it might be the first helpfull thing anyone has ever given to me on this topic.
All the advise of "just get hobbies", "just bee urself" and "go out there" didnt do shit
No.7311
>>7225Is it weird that I'd feel like I "lost" if I read these? I'd rather develop on my own rather than think about some freaking manual in my head whenever I'm socializing. It's not like I'm desperate for a relationship right now either.
No.7312
I have been having some really effective thoughts about basically giving up. How much compromise and effort, also how "wrong" I am, how much I have to not be me to find a relationship. Is it worth it in the end? Is anyone worth completely transforming yourself into a farce? No they aren't. Also spending decades of being excluded and rejected. Who the fuck are they to say I deserve to wallow in agony. I ascribed too much power to people who judge me as broken. I function in this fucked up late-stage capitalist society and the conditions and history of that society puts me in the place I am. I'm not going to either admit that I am shit according to colonialism and capitalism or try to force the issue any more. This shit is all a joke. I'm done and I've never felt so good about it.
No.7313
>>7311It's typical gamification thinking of the material world after overexposure to screens your whole life. It's perfectly normal. But I'm not sure I know anyone except for people on the spectrum that keep books or guides constantly in mind like a check list. Just like any other memory trick, you think about it, you connect it to your life in your brain, you take a nap, and eventually it becomes part of your subconscious. Communication theory is interesting to study, but no one constantly thinks about Bernays or McLuhan when going about living their own life. Do you perform a dialectic analysis of the entire global production chain when you get a redbull from the gas station?
No.7314
>>7312If anything, this thread demonstrates pursuing a relationship in this day and age is a waste of time and energy.
No.7315
>>7314It's entirely transactional now. However, when boomers , especially people older than boomers were becoming adults women basically
had to find a man because they were denied work that could pay for a support a home, also the other societal pressures to get married. Nowadays most of that is gone, while the wages of the proletariat has stagnated and effectively been reduced for milennials and gen z, of course less people are going to get married, of course relationships are just about income and men are judged entirely on income, whiteness (social status)
No.7316
>>7289Damn bro, I hope she sees that post.
You really are not like the other guys, you know,
the ones that get to fuck her. But hey, you keep your enlightened humblemaxxing, eventually someone will take pity on you or you'll come across someone attracted to the social capital that is represented by your particular kind of rationalization for missing out. Perhaps you don't realize it but you are making of your loneliness the same gimmick of personality that some others may do with clothing, demeanor or assertiveness. That's a nasty self reinforcing loop of victimhood you are walking yourself into. You are predicating your tolerance on reality on rationalizing your external circumstances as internal decisions, but the outside may sometimes fuck you up in way you cannot re-frame as your own choice.
Fair warning though, the more you miss out on, the more dependent you will grow on maintaining that view which rationalizes your status as a virtue, and the larger the burden upon it. So make sure it doesn't crash on you when you hit some milestone of loneliness and bygone chances ,because doubt
now is depressing, but doubt then may be
fatal. Whatever comfort that view provides today, is very likely an investment in future anguish.
No.7317
Femanon here.
How do I turn my casual friendship with this one guy into a sexual relationship?
I texted him yesterday but it was just friendly. I have very bad social anxiety.
No.7318
>>7317just write
SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXX
No.7319
>>7317Put a few drops of sow pheromones in your perfume next time you meet him.
No.7320
>>7319Yeah, I’m trying to meet up with him but he’s REALLY busy with school shit. He’s in university and I don’t know his schedule.
Basically, I want to grow closer to him but I don’t know how.
No.7321
>>7317Is there any reason why you'd expect a refusal if you state what you want outright?
No.7322
>>7320>>7317If he's so invested in uni, I would advise you to not waste time circling around, just tell you're interested in him as romantic partner.
Although would be good, before saying you want to fug, to ask him about his studies, his academic routines, to show a bit of interest in his pursuits of life as way to incentivize his liking for you.
No.7324
>>7220I've actually made a bunch of friends in the past two years through work.
Problem is they're all losers, even more so than me. We play dnd. It's that bad.
I'm just an undesirable person to have around in any capacity other than as an employee or student. Teachers and managers tend to like me more than any of my actual peers. I don't know what to do. I don't know where to go. I have no interests or passions.
No.7325
>>7317Assuming you are not extraordinary ugly and he is single, literaly just flat out say you find him attractive and want to get physical, there is 99% chance he will enthusiastically consent.
No.7327
>>7326>I am forced to sandpaper off parts of my psyche, because they are not in demand on the dating marketwhy do you idiots feel the need to add economy major buzzwords to the very simple issue that people (the people youve met) do not like your personality
No.7328
>>7327>says muh personality is le important>calls others idiotsheh
No.7329
>>7328who are you quoting retard
No.7330
everyone makes fun of the concept of a "marketplace of ideas" but when unlikable assholes bring up "sex marketplace value" and "dating markets" we have to take them seriously
No.7331
>>7327>>7330I think it is a fine analogy for dating dynamics in situations where you have opportunity to meet much more people than you could realistically get to know.
No.7333
>>7316sounds like individualism applied to social conditions like a lack of communal social spaces, lack of social activity in general apart from wage labor, lack of resources to have free time, lack of mental healthcare, etc.
No.7334
>>7310Yup, I felt the same way.
>>7311>I'd rather develop on my ownThen have fun re-inventing the wheel and taking much longer to overcome your struggles when you do it on your own.
>than think about some freaking manual in my head whenever I'm socializing.You internalize it and do it automatically eventually. I know I write huge texts, but that's just the shit I've learned over the past years. I don't think about any of that nowadays. It's second nature now.
No.7335
>>7330>everyone makes fun of the concept of a "marketplace of ideas" but when unlikable assholes bring up "sex marketplace value" and "dating markets" we have to take them seriouslyQuickly followed by admonishing the excess men for being lazy unworthy types who do not invest enough in making themselves valuable to their potential partners, sorry the not-market has chosen. Try self help.
Remember boys, there is no such thing as toxic femininity. When in doubt remember the debt you owe for the patriarchy and that the best you can aspire to, is racing to the bottom of self abasement. Anything else is psychopathic PUA manipulative prejudiced unsolidarity
*. Be yourself,sit down, stay in your lane and learn nothing. Or else.
[
*] Do not confuse with female empowerment. Very different when a woman does it.
No.7336
>>7225When I read stuff like this I know im hopelessly autistic.
No.7337
>>7316>Fair warning though, the more you miss out on, the more dependent you will grow on maintaining that view which rationalizes your status as a virtuehow is that a bad thing though, are you going to shame coping mechanisms now
No.7339
>>7337Coping is enduring a problem. Problems, when possible, have solutions, and so the coping tends to be temporary.
In this case the problem gets worse with time and missed chances and the coping mechanism is self-reinforcing because it negates the problem, in the sense that the longer you hold the belief and the more the problem grows while you ignore it, the more invested you are in keeping that belief, because revising it means unleashing the ever growing reservoir of regret.
No.7340
>>7339There is no "problem" though.
If someone decides that dating is not for them, it's not a problem.
Any claim to the contrary is just peer pressure.
No.7341
>>7340His post strikes me as childish and grasping at straws while seeking validation for his self appointed status as an "incel". Either way his rejection of "this patriarchal system" entirely out of self righteous cope. I wouldn't want to base
any decision on that.
No.7342
>>7341Sounds like you're just doibg internet-psychoanalysis.
Your post could as easily be directed towards a leftist who says they don't want to work at a bank or as an HR manager, just replace "patriarchy" with capitalism.
Everyone who doesn't go along with social expectations is just coping, right?
No.7344
>>7343Because you are the creative nothing?
No.7347
>>7345That's the spirit. Never hurts to try anon.
No.7348
>>7322How do I flirt with him over text? He knows me as just a friend and has no clue I'm interested in him as a sexual partner.
No.7349
>>7340Society wants men to give you their elf worth for women.
Single men are seen s a blight.
Society sees young men especially as inherently defective beings that need to be beaten/condemnd for flaws or nuances.
They're not allowed to want for their own, only for "chaning the world".
Young women on the other hand, are worshipped, ascribed with virtues they themselves lack.
They're told that men should suicide for them.
No.7351
>>7170It saddens and angers me as a man that we wanna throw away our self value and worth to women.
Why are women always automatically ascribed as virtuous just because of their looks and cutesy demeanor?
Why are men expected to have to prove themselves and appeal to female whim in order to be seen as a person?
Why are men not loved born appreciated for themselves?
Do men have any value outside of pampering women or undergoing massive e projects to appease the elders?
Are men nothing more than metaphysical stunted doubles?
No.7352
>>7226Modern women are abysmally shallow. Men keep reducing female value to fertility.
No.7353
>>7352If they are abysmally shallow, what value do they have to be reduced?
No.7354
>>7351Men are loved for no reason other than just being when they were children. Once grown up they have to justify to others why they still exist.
No.7355
>>7354Is this supposed to be a problem? I legit can't tell. Also your parents as a general rule still love you even if you are a fuck-up like (but then there is also a lot of people that are from shit families).
No.7356
>>7349>>7351Other people will value you only if you have something you can provide for them. For women, that something is being attractive. Even for people who dont seek sex with them, it is still appreciated to have pretty things around you. Ugly women certainly arent ascribed virtues. For men, level of attractiveness needed to be sexually desirable is out of reach of most of us, so we need to provide something else to prove our worth.
No.7357
>>7355>>7356I said exist, not like.
No.7358
>>7357I don't think you need to be either loved or liked to continue existence.
No.7359
Not too fond of the women tbqh
No.7361
>>7360Not them but its hard to not be bitter. I touch grass, groom myself, keep healthy and fit, dress OK, I can maintain a conversation on many topics, I'm loyal and caring and successful in life even by bourgeois standards. But the reasons for why they all collectively don't like me are outside of my grasp. I get it, I'm boring and ugly probably, but I don't know what to do about that without sacrificing my self more than I want to. At this point if nobody likes me, fuck it. Yet I'm left wanting someone who won't come. I guess its the curse of being an ugly transbian
No.7362
>>7361Ugly transbians and uncles are in the same boat. We have so much to offer but end up killing ourselves because cis women set their standards too high.
No.7363
>>7362I won't give up hope though and neither should anyone. If you can love yourself someone else can love you too . it just might take a while to find them.
No.7364
>>7363There are anons on this board who post about still being virgins in their mid 30s. Statistically if you haven't lost your virginity by ~25 it's fucking over. Giving myself false hope won't help.
No.7365
>>7364>if you haven't lost your virginity by ~25 it's fucking overAh, shit.
No.7367
if virginity rather than relationships is the focus it might be time to go get laid as the top priority to get it out of the way. its probably a mental blocker. just see an escort depending on where you live, or find a hookup somehow. ive never done this though
No.7368
>>7341>accurately pointing out the primal instinctual nature of human sexuality is "chilidish/shallow
<"you're supposed to play the game to.win, anon"This is why mankind keeps delaying their spacefaring communist utopia by centuries.
We keep proclaiming ourselves as above the animals.while using out technologies and literature to appeal to baser instinct of reproduction.
No.7369
>>7366Surely this graph implies the opposite? That one is less likely to be a virgin the older they get, and therefore anon will become more likely to lose their virginity in the future?
No.7370
>>7368Actually, I wasn't even trying to imply that it was "instinctual".
I wanted to elaborate more, but felt like the discussion devolved into bad faith argumentation and lost interest.
I think that the current social institution of courtship is a consequence of liberal modernity, and descends from bourgeois courtship rituals.
It is no different in that regard from many other social expectations that the average modern liberalized subject is expected to follow. Like, for example, the atomic family, or property ownership being seen as virtue, the notion of "freedom" being conceptualized exclusively in terms of negative freedoms, etc., etc.
If "our" (modern liberalized subjects) understanding of "freedom" is passed down from what the Enlightenment era bourgeoisie understood by "freedom", then our understanding of male-female sexual dynamics and dating is similarly passed down from that class of people from that era.
We are all larping, and are expected to larp, as 18th century white european small land owning merchants or whatever, despite the fact that our material conditions are completely different. And this, I think, results in various forms of alienation. I don't claim that literally all of our behavior is a social construct, but I bet a lot more of it is, than we think. What we see as "natural" is merely what the ruling ideology sees as "natural". It could, or it could not be.
I mean think about it, this whole framework of the man being the active "initiator" and the woman being a passive "recipient", who, nonetheless, gets to "choose" only makes sense in a particular circumstance where there is no medieval style arranged marriage, but at the same time, women have less social, political end economic agency than men.
In a more or less egalitarian society, I see no material reason for why such an expectation would exist. I'd assume without that superstructure, both people would employ dating strategies according to their personalities and preferences, rather than social expectations put on them. There'd be women who approach and men who receive, and it'd be seen as normal. And even pairs of men and women where both are "active", and neither feels like their masculinity or femininity is being compromised.
Like, we have plenty of men who complain about having to be "alpha" despite it not matching their personality, and plenty of women who complain about being approached and hassled by men unsolicited. (and also women complaining how the man they're interested in is not initiating, but convinced that they shouldn't initiate either)
Is that not an empiric demonstration that such an arrangement is not "natural"? People literally saying how it goes against their nature?
No.7371
>>7370Addendum: I think the reaction from those who buy into this framework of courtship, and find success in it, when you criticize it, is very similar to how small business owners react to criticisms of capitalism:
"It's just how the world is bro, suck it up and learn to play the game, you're just rationalizing your lack of success"
Am I wrong?
No.7372
>>7368>>accurately pointing out the primal instinctual nature of human sexuality is "chilidish/shallowAh okay, didn‘t know you were an evolutionary psychologist you coping incel lmao. You may get back down to Earth my friend.
No.7373
>>7370>>7371Brilliant posts
No.7374
>>7372Its more so that they don't know what they don't know
Which is what its like to be unattractive
No.7375
>>7362>cis women set their standards too high>does not suggest lowering his own standardsbang an ugly girl, anon
No.7377
>>7376>You will bang ze ugly girl and you will like ityes
No.7378
>>7377Bruh even barely attractive girls can get 900+ matches on Tinder. Average guys are eventually going to fight over homeless crackheads women with missing teeth. Some time ago people were criticizing the market analogy, but dating has become like a market that is experiencing inflation. Men‘s buying power has substantially decreased. It‘s like surviving off of a bag of Doritos for a week.
No.7379
>>7378it's a jungle, yeah
No.7381
>>7380why you chasing her damn
No.7382
>>7380OP is now on a register lmao
No.7384
>>7289>>7370>>7371This actually makes a lot of sense. Huh.
No.7385
>>7383there really is no accounting for sheer absolute stupidity lmao
No.7388
>>7387She's too busy with chad I guess, no time for leftycels like you OP.
No.7390
>>7389Women can have social anxiety too. Sadly I don't have advice for that as I'm only into extrovert types
No.7392
>>377356
uygha not every women in this world are nymphomaniac retards who love to ride le cock carousel ok
No.7393
>>377356
Why are you incels so obsessed with virginity?
No.7395
>>7392>not every women in this world are nymphomaniacUnfortunately yes
No.7397
>>377363
Internet is not real life you morons. This is the same logic as "there are so many neo-nazis in 4chan, therefore Americans are mostly neo-nazis". The nature of internet is to create a bubble where this or that trait is overrepresented
No.7398
>>377363
Also 15 years old/3 guys (sad emoji) ItsOver for Polecels
No.7399
>>7384 (me)
But to a man, what are the plans of action that come from such analysis? Sure, there is no ethical courtship under patriarchy as you say, but I don't think a moralistic approach is the correct one as it changes nothing and alienates you further from society.
No.7400
>>377363
>woman doesn't sleep with enough men
<prude!
>woman sleeps with too many men
<slut!
makes u think
No.7402
>>7400>>woman doesn't sleep with enough men><prude!I also like to make up scenarios that aren‘t representative of anyone
No.7403
>>377370
No, I can‘t find it but some study said that most people have a body count that‘s one digit and that there is a minority of promiscuous who were having a lot of sex with each other while most people have their most sexual experiences in a relationship.
No.7404
>>7401That you chose Squidward as a representation of you is more interesting than whatever you‘re complaining about. Dude apparently has a whole reaction folder of him. Wild.
No.7405
>>7404Incels reek of self-satisfaction.
No.7406
>>7404woah calm down with the psychoanalysis
No.7407
>>7404i think squidward poster is a wizard
No.7408
>>377363
definitely real and not teenagers lying to try to impress each other
No.7409
>>7400Nobody is shaming women for not fucking around, the only time woman is called prude is when she tries to be a fun police and put down others for not conforming to her moral standards.
>>7404I just put "squidward reaction" into search engine.
>>7407Not yet but the clock it ticking and I am panicking.
No.7410
>>7397>therefore Americans are mostly neo-nazisWell, they are
the point is still largely correct
No.7411
>>7409Chad is planning on going out and getting laid tomorrow night. Meanwhile you will be sat at home jerking off and posting on leftypol. Pathetic.
No.7413
>>7412Would you prefer it if I lied to you? Giving you false hope would be even more cruel in my view.
No.7415
>>7414How many times have you had sex in your life?
No.7417
>>7284I feel exactly the same anon, thanks for sharing It!
No.7418
idk im asexual though the rest of you can suffer in silence lmao
No.7419
>>7414Tyler the Creator ass
No.7421
>>7399Stop feeling bad about it would be the first step.
View it as any other social attribute you're expected to arbitrarily conform to: not an obligation, but a choice.
When you stop thinking about things as obligations, but as choices, it opens up a new "space" where you're allowed to actually reason about them, and express personal agency / decision making.
I'll give a dumb analogy: in my field of work, there is a culture of preferring Apple products to Android or Windows. The cultural image of a worker in this field is associated with using apple products for said work. Now I can technically afford a Macbook or an iPhone, but only technically - it would not be a sound financial decision on my part to buy one.
If I thought about it as an obligation, there'd be only a "binary" space: either I have one and I'm cool, or I don't have one and I'm a loser. And if I didn't want to be a loser, I'd get one as an installment loan, go in debt, and put myself in a bad position. But because it's an obligation, I "have no choice": it's either debt or not being a "fully realized human" (in this social context).
But NOT thinking of it as mandatory opens up for me a space where I can think about the following things:
"Can I afford one?": how much money am I willing to part with, what will be the consequences, etc? Apple products are expensive, and so is dating/marriage. There's people who start families despite not being able to afford it.
"Does having one align with my beliefs/morals?": You might hate the Apple business model, or the exploitation involved in the manufacturing of their products are a no-go for you. You might think that the social expectations put on you as a man/woman are immoral / unethical / sexist, and you don't want to participate. Nothing wrong with that.
"Do I actually need one?" (and under which conditions): Do you want to have it AS A THING IN ITSELF, or only as a social signifier? Maybe you like iOS or whatever. Maybe you need an Apple ecosystem to do your work. Regarding relationships, maybe you really do need intimacy and companionship, on a core psychological level. Or maybe you want something AS a social signifier in the first place, like you see an actual benefit in being socially accepted by your peers, and it's worth it for you. The important part is that it's something you can make decisions about. You can reason about it, express agency, etc. It's not just "either I have it or not". (ok, this could get morally bad when it involves other people, like having trophy wives is pretty bad, and buying blood diamonds for social clout is pretty bad, but same could be said about the lithium mines in iphone production etc., that's a separate discussion).
And so on and so on. The particulars don't really matter, the important part is that if you think about social expectations as imperatives, you don't have much space for agency. If you stop buying into them, there's decisions you can make, and be happy with.
Now here's where it gets metaphysical: if you decide to not succumb to social pressure, the "material" (in a vulgar material sense) outcome is the same: you don't have an iphone/gf, and society looks down on you for it. But the difference is that in one instance it was a failure to comply, but in another, it was a conscious decision, and a successful adherence to your beliefs/values.
Look, just like you can take out a loan to buy an Apple product you can't afford, there's people out there with a "any hole's a goal" mentality, and people who become parents at age 16. And society looks down on them. That should clue you in that it's not REALLY about being sexually active, or romantically successful. It's about adhering to a social standard. The sex part is only incidental.
Well, if society can have standards, so can you. Maybe it's below your standards to be a sex pest in pursuit of pussy. Maybe it's below your standards to seek sexual relations for no other reason than you don't want to be a "virgin".
You can be ok with being sexless just like you can be ok with not having an iphone. OR you can "lower your standards" and do it, but only because you DECIDED to, not because it's expected of you. The important part is that you're living according to YOUR principles, not that of "society".
You get me?
I'm drunk so pardon me if I'm incoherent, I could probably get my point across better if I were sober.
No.7423
>>7370Ok fair point. But it goes to show that man is still obsessed with procreation.
I was on lolcow and boy, you guys weren't kidding. They're a female version of . And whi3ke there's alot I can sympathise with them for, there's alot that only justifies the male incel rage. It's a toxic feedback loop.
Again, I keep saying it but everyone keeps waving me off: we need to forgo relationships.
Romantic relationships especially should have never been promoted to the middle class.
The liberal ideals of freedom are ironically what causes inequality. It's why academia is in the terrible shape its in.
Same for relationships and enterprises.
I have a strong feeling that people really don't like equality.
The right is at least honest in their disdain of equality, but moderate/centrists are not.
If anything, the only equality people will tolerate is racial equality. Even the right admit that there's "honorary minorities" they'd breed with.
But gender equality?
No one wants it.
Everyone complains about the opposite sex, but no one wants to compromise their selfish impressions of "proper" relationships.
The only winning move is to not play.
People like to laugh at waifu/husbando enthusiasts, but those folk are better off.
Society looks down on single men, yet single men don't have to deal with ungrateful hags and manipulated children.
Society looks down on cat ladies but at least they only have to deal with pets.
Humans are too idealistic/horny/shallow to appreciate singlehood.
Right now, it's not a good time to bring new life into this world.
No.7424
>>7422I used to feel frustrated with being a virgin in my early to mid 20s, but now in my 20s I don't feel frustrated at all.
That's because I have other things going on in my life that I feel satisfied about.
You know what else is a liberal tendency? To naturalize all humans as fundamentally similar "abstract rational agents" or whatever. Probably an idea descended from the christian "holy spirit".
The idea that there's this abstract, "normal" human against which every particular human exists in relation to. "The liberal subject", if you will.
The liberal conception of why it's ok to be retarded is because "it's ok to be different!".
But what they don't think about is that being retarded is not "different", because there is nothing to be "different" against: there is no shared, central, "normal" human experience against which to compare.
Being retarded is just ok, and there's no such thing as being "normal".
I'm not asking you to accept being retarded in relation to the normal. I'm asking to to be retarded, with no further stipulations. You get me? Think dialectically.
t. retarded
No.7425
>>7380Forget her.
Just ket her go.
Female youths have the power in sexual market.
Wait another twenty five years and those same girls will coming running to you, granted carrying baggage they want you to throw away for them.
No.7426
>>7423>Everyone complains about the opposite sex, but no one wants to compromise their selfish impressions of "proper" relationships. Most people don't really think about things and when they say "equality" they mean "I don't have to put up with any restrictions but I won't have to sacrifice entitlements based on restricting other people." They are still attached to the social programming based on an unequal arrangement.
No.7427
>>7422>>7424(also, isn't the same true of being a socialist/leftist? if socialism in one country is absurd, then socialism in one person is the ultimate in absurdity. there's no individual "solution". There's only activism, and living according to ones' beliefs. saying that you need a "solution" to being low in the hierarchy in a patriarchal system, is as absurd as saying you need a "solution" to not being a CEO under capitalism. There's only two real options: you either feel bad about not being one, or you think that being one is not a good thing. that's it.)
No.7428
>>7265Women spend their entire lives under an intense brutal microscope hanging every ounce of their worth on their looks. They're right to be infuriated by men who want a quick fuck that can get away with looking like anything with much less judgement that wouldn't effect your career. I believe she has her head on straight because far too many guys just want no strings attach and then expect a domestic labor or no matter what background they come from. It's supremely easier to be single and not get caught up in the meat grinder and feel used. Singlehood is bliss.
No.7429
>>7425Exactly, why would you even want to have something with an attractive 20-something while yourself being still young, when you can fuck a decrepit corpse after you acquire erectile disfunction.
>>7424I dont see how redefining conception of normality is relevant to what I said.
>>7427Solution can be individual though. Its not ideal, wont fix problem, but can improve my own chances of making it. Obviously desire is source of all suffering, but I am stuck with it nevertheless. Like I am not writing here to reach some kind of epiphany, I am just looking for practical advice and psychological support.
No.7430
>>7284Samefag, exactly. Singlehood is bliss but especially if you're a woman. You truly cannot know what the hell you're getting yourself into as a woman and it makes 99.999% women extremely cautious the experiences they've had with men before.
No.7431
>>7289You heard wrong. You don't have to be rapey.
, especially not the toxic kind of overbearing. I think most women just want strong/ emotionally intelligent but I also think porn on the internet has made them extremely paranoid/ distrustful. Stop listening to assholes talk. Most women don't want that.
No.7433
>>7300Speed dating is a generally abysmal experience and the fact that it's even a thing in burgerstan should have been taken as a sign of how truly fucked we really are
No.7434
>>377429
It simply feels extremely one sided. That is not a favor. All women know all men really care about in a woman is her looks. It's thoroughly hammered into our brains how brutal men are to ugly women and how much women are thoroughly second-rated, turned against each other, while men get to have a sense of humor. Get to start their lives "knowing" they're going to be better than anything, proceeding to bully girls. Women hold onto that ugly or beautiful and eternally secondrated and bimboification…. all their lives. They never forget how many times they are treated like either sex dolls or garbage. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. We aren't going to be the only dolls it feels extremely one sided and dishonest.I just want my mind back and a simple existence. I don't care about your money, or your car, or how rapey and aggressive you are and how good you think that is for me. I just want to not feel numb. NOT USED. By someone who puts the same in that I do for a simple pleasant existence that doesn't suck. So SORRY attraction was involved, but it's human nature. Men expect te same thing.
No.7435
>>7426I have read feminist articles concerning misandry.
Alot of them say misandry doesn't exist and even if did, it shouldn't be considered equal to misogyny.
The same movement calling for gender equality dismisses male woes.
It's one example of the hypocrisy of "equality."
Rightists claim equality is Marxist, therefore satanic because it punishes "talent". Yet, if brown people are excelling more than whites in anything or everything, they cry about "muh replacement".
Schools teach about equality, yet they always tell boys to bend over backwards for girls. Girls are never told to be respectful of boys.
Black Americans love to talk about how they're always underrepresented in pop culture. Yet, if you offer them.anythingotherthan urban/ghetto R&B culture, they feel indignant.
At least that's how I was until the late-2000s.
>>7434>>7428Yes, but women do the same to men in erms of their looks and money and hobbies.
No.7436
>>7430Singlehood is better for both sexes.
It's just that society sympathizes female singlehood over male singlehood.
Mem are pressured into pursuing relationships to prove their masculinity.
No.7437
>>7435>At least that's how I was until the late-2000s.Meant to say "that's how *IT* was.
I was an awkward nerdy black kid whom eschewed rap and autistic. That would've gotten me bullied big time if I was dropped in a ghetto black school.
No.7438
>>7434Men are turned against each other as well. Its not just women. While women are second rated, men aren't given any first rating.
Men are required to be masculine but then are called brutish for being masculine. Men are told to be more like women in terms of self care. Yet, when men start pursuing cosmetic self care and other "girly" hobbies, they're seen as defective.
No.7439
>>7429At least you cannot get her pregnant. Also, twenty-somethings are VICENARIANS
Vicenary is Latin for "pertaining to a set of twenty".
Again, young women hold all the power in sexual market so securing one is very tricky. At least older women have some life skills and loads of stories to tell. And they understand that all that glitters is not gold.
From personal experience, older women are more hard-working and sympathetic of male woes than younger women.
No.7440
>>7438People with a victim complex like to take real things and distort them so much to further their victim complex. There is no point in talking to you. Your entire rant is just fueled by being frustrated of not getting laid and the rest is just a delusional self-victimization spree.
>>7434True
No.7441
>>7440Same could be said for you. Again, alot of the woes women have can also be applicable then, but women always wanna make things into a gender war where it's always men fault for any bit of inconvenience.
And men are at fault for placing too much self worth on their ability to get women.
No.7442
>>7315The only way to have successful relationships is either start real young, like nine to twelve, or in retirement after sixty.
Trying to secure reltionahips in your twenties, thirties, and forties is disastrous. It's the time when you're supposed to secure financial and industrial stability.
Society makes the mistake of using age numbers as automatic maturity license.
Maturity and wisdom are manual efforts, not something that can be "figured out".
In fact, figuring out life when you get older means you're too late.
There's a reason why we had coming of age ceremonies and apprenticeships at twelve to fourteen.
The only way to solve this crisis is to revive pre-Romanticist approach to relationships.
No.7443
>>7434This is such bs. Guys aren't under a microscope for their looks? With guys its different, it's mostly their bone structure and skeleton that are judged by womem. Unchangeable.
No.7444
>>7434While I agree looks are a fucked-up psyop, it has been played down by both sides.
Modern women will choose an 'average' dude with established wealth over a broke chad.
Modern men will choose anyone that won't fuck him over with divorce or plain go insane, over a 10/10 model.
And of course I'm talking about long run prospects, not one night stands.
No.7445
>>7443Um, that poster didn't say men are scrutinized for thir looks. It's women whom are. And she's right.
However, she failed to understand that men are more or less subject to the same aesthetic laws.
>>7444This.
Romantic love is a scam to control the youth.
No.7446
>>7444>Modern women will choose an 'average' dude with established wealth over a broke chad.A friend of mine literally lives in a van getting welfare and still slays more poon in a year than you do in your life.
No.7447
>>7446>A friend of mine literally lives in a van getting welfare and still slays more poon in a year than you do in your lifeNice job reproducing the very toxicity mentioned in this thread. Good for him. Post a pic, I'm sure he's ugly right? No. So its not relevant.
No.7448
>>7446Read last line, also for how long on average do his women stay with him?
No.7450
>>7449The reality is that the roles are more reversed.
My case is that I have a psychotic although benign womamchild whom expects me to give her a romantic relationship when we clearly met on a hookups website.
No.7452
>>7448>also for how long on average do his women stay with him?He pumps and dumps them so probably about two fiddy.
>>7447>Nice job reproducing the very toxicity mentioned in this thread.You're welcome bro
>>7449lol. true tho.
No.7453
>>7449Holy shit, Adam Friedland actually does get pussy!
Unironically that gives me hope No.7454
OP pic reminds of Huey Lewis parodying the Amwrican Psycho murder scene for some reason.
He even has the same facial expression
No.7455
>>7450Real talk, I held onto a toxic/crazy girl for ages just because the pussy was too good
No.7457
>>7456They do not want to help you. They do not want more competition.
No.7459
>>7456I love how riled up virgins get. Women talk about dick the same way dudes talk about pussy. You wouldn’t know this because everyone besides you is fucking around. Besides, I still treated that girl with mad respect despite her being a walking red flag in retrospect.
No.7460
>>7439Stop trying to dress up your fetish for a moral stance.
>>7456So much of a stereotypes pertaining to incels mixture of normie projections and plain bullying. So many times I heard incels described as abusers, or women likening them to their shitty ex-boyfriend, when by definition, they can be neither of those things.
No.7463
>>7461I’m just telling you what’s up. You aren’t gonna get away with likening me to an incel for talking about pussy the same way women talk about dick. It’s a known fact woman gossip about cock too. What do you think “girl talk” is?
Incels shame women for shit like body counts and not holding up to their warped/idealized values (like virginity), while simultaneously feeling entitled to sex from said women. I couldn’t care less about shit like that and am in a solid relationship with a girl I love and respect dearly right now. I don’t feel entitled to a woman’s body. Never have and never will.
No.7464
>>7463Stop fucking slandering people. "Incels feel entitled to sex" is one of those ideas thrown around without critical thinking very often. No, most incels hate themselves, want to die, and wish for a hand hold or hug. Youre projecting to assume incels are like you but minus the ability to have sex.
No.7466
>>7465>It's almost like your worth as a sexual man is dependant on how sexually appealing you are and your incel moral faggotry is like silica gel for vaginas. You could just become volcel and nobody would have a problem with you.Yeah I'm sure all the women incels talk to read this thread and your entire post history and also had in depth discussions to detect idealism. Your retroactive explanations for incel failure are all so bs. Yet on a communist site.
Incelism correlates with untreated autism, mental illness, social isolation, lack of socialization, etc. Which are all to some extent products of social conditions. Your shallow takes are old. why bother writing them?
No.7469
>>7468monks have loads of bum sex in their monasteries though, maybe if incels became monks they would finally get laid
No.7470
>>7468>The incels don't want to accept the sex-havers advice ITT, and instead want to pull the moral superiority card.
>Might as well just become a monk with all that purity. You already know from experience it won't get you sex.Quote the "advice"
No.7471
>>7468oops ctrl C + V wrong version of meme going to fast.
But yeah maybe to add clarity.
You're like:
>but I'm supposed to be like X doesn't that make me virtuous? Why don't I get sex because of my virtue?I guess this is why autismos are likely to be incels. They can only understand things on a direct literal level. They can't observe reality as it works and are all about "the letter of the law."
Dejure and defacto incels.
No.7472
>>7470>Quote the "advice">>7456>>7289
>Always take me a little bit aback when fuckboys/chads give dating advice, and it boils down to "be more repey/creepy, … but while being attractive".>And I am taken even more aback when women validate such advice, either by claiming that men need to prove their masculinity by assertiveness, or saying how being "too easy" would make the woman in question "a slut". Incels think being the ultimate woman respecter will get them sex(even though by their own admission it won't)
No.7473
>>7471"Just be confident it works for me"
Keep talking about all the useful advice without quoting it
No.7474
>>7472>Incels think being the ultimate woman respecter will get them sex(even though by their own admission it won't)>>7463>Incels shame women for shit like body counts and not holding up to their warped/idealized values (like virginity), while simultaneouThe duality of incels. Moral monks with high ideals? Creepy judgemental people who think they are entitled to sex? Well, which is it?
No.7475
>>7473I'll give it to you straight. Just be dominant. I'm not saying be "rapey." Don't be a beggar either like that Andrew Callaghan guy either. But you got to be bold enough to posit the idea of sexual interaction. What is the harm in saying "suck my dick bitch?" If she says no, accept that no. But incels are afraid of every possible impropriety. Being "rude" can get you sex. No need to be rapey or a beggar. You can be bold enough to ask for it and get turned down sometimes and to get your wish granted sometimes.
No.7477
>>7475I'm a transhumanist. Your advice will get me on FOX news.
No.7478
>>7462I wonder who triggered who.
>>7463>Incels shame women for shit like body counts and not holding up to their warped/idealized values (like virginity)You're conflating things, most incels aren't traditionalists or anything religon related, they just want to have a fling with anyone. The bodycount issue isn't relevant outside people that are proud of it or those who condemn.
No.7479
>>7475>What is the harm in saying "suck my dick bitch?" If she says no, accept that no.If I did that to any girl, I would be arrested on the spot.
No.7480
>>7475>What is the harm in saying "suck my dick bitch?" If she says no, accept that no. You have a cognitive blindspot. If this is how you act, there's a reason you get away with it. Incels cannot.
No.7481
>>7477How so? You're flirting with some guy who's into that, you ask him explicitly to fuck your boy pussy.
>>7479LMAO no. What is the crime? Also I was being extra vulgar for dramatic effect.
>>7480Yeah you can't just out of the blue say something like that and expect it to work. But as helping hand and etc. have explained on here, it's your job as the man to sexually escalate the situation. And there is no need to be rapey or beg for it. Just be bold enough to offer the sexual escalation.
Saying something vulgar is no crime. Despite what the incels here believe lol.
No.7482
>>7481>How so? You're flirting with some guy who's into that, you ask him explicitly to fuck your boy pussy.I am lesbian
>>7481>it's your job as the man to sexually escalate the situationI am not a man
No.7483
>>7482Alright. So your a trans woman going for women? I dunno, you got your own niche. I have no idea what lesbians go for trans women.
No.7484
>>7462Yeah it turned into a real trainwreck.
So on a more practical note, what kind of looksmaxxing are you guys doing/recommend on doing? I grew my hair and in recent months acquired lean physique, and for a first time in my life I started actually liking my own body. Also got into retinol, its not a miracle potion some people make it out to be, but it seemed to lead to a mild improvement in facial texture. Kind of makes it more depressing that I am unable to pull anything even when now I "objectively" look better than most of my peers, but still, its nice to fit into your own self-image of what you should look like.
No.7486
instead of avatarfagging may i present you the tripcode function
No.7488
>>7487tripcodes are disposable too
No.7489
>>7481>What is the crime?Sexual harassment.
No.7490
>>7488I never used one, dont know how, dont care to, and I like posting images on imageboards. Adds to the atmosphere of a place.
Well anyway, this is my last Squidwardpost, good night.
No.7491
>>7468I avoid self-pity because it acts as a temporary relief but I still don't do anything about my issues tbh.
No.7493
>>7492You so horny, tryin' to find you a bitch mayne
I'm hustlin', I gotta stay rich mayne
You friendly, like to buy hoes gifts
But I'm mean, I hit 'em with the closed fist
You a sucka, take a bitch on a trip
I kick back, and send a bitch to go get my stack
And you'll never do that
You're weak for a bitch, you better move back
Why they always use you?
Cause you pay 'em, that's what they used to
Man bitches everywhere
Treat uyghas like you like teddy bears
You'll get to feel on her and touch her
You always with her but you still ain't fucked her
You fell in love with the bitch last summer
I fucked a few times then dumped her
You tricks, always tryin' to find you a better hoe
I told you, never put the pussy on a pedestal
Them nasty little cum freaks, F 'em
If they wasn't bout the money I left 'em
Burn rubber, I'm drivin' fast
That's my new motto 'cause it's time to smash
I flew past still givin' it gas
Made a right turn, swingin' the ass
I'm shittin' on 'em
No.7494
I'm starting to think this guy is a troll
No.7495
>>7494That guy might be a troll, but i really enjoy reading an incel thread in a place where the participants try to analyze things from a systemic perspective instead of resorting to le sharia law, enslave women and race science crap that are ominpresent in every other incel/looksmaxx forum. Thank you squidward anon
No.7496
>>7494Which guy? So being a faggot that indefinitely whines about getting no pussy is a non troll? Guys are trying to tell you faggots how to get pussy but you don't want it.
No.7497
>>7493Squidward, just move onto the next girl, this one obviously didn't work but oh well, it is what it is. Don't overthink it, maybe she has some shit going on.
No.7498
>>7497I ain't squidward, just offering him a non-faggot perspective.
No.7499
>>7498I didn't mean to reply to you, you are clearly beyond any help.
No.7500
>>7499You faggot incel can't help shit. Maybe you could help a trisomy case.
No.7501
>>7500Lol,we have an internet though over here
No.7502
>>7501Good for you? What does that mean?
No.7503
>>7495Not the squidward guy, the dominant and vulgar uygha here
>>7492.
Giving bad advice, or even advice that could land you in jail should be a bannable offense imho.
No.7504
>>7480>If this is how you act, there's a reason you get away with itAre you retarded? He is some rapey autist that is fantasizing on an imageboard where nobody can point out he hasn't left the house in a month. or he is pretending to be so
No.7505
sex
No.7507
>>7496there's not a single post in this thread with legitimate useful advice it's basically "be dominant and aggressive" which does not work unless women are attracted to you and will get you arrested
No.7508
>>7507one guy even suggested walking up to women and asking them to suck your dick, and not one hater-of-incels even called him out on it
No.7509
>>7504yes, autistic people are always the blame for everything. even when this person is clearly a sex-haver or else why would they be writing that inane drivel? as an autistic person I would never write shit that bad.
No.7510
>>7507The "be dominant" advice has ruined hundreds of incels. Imagine being a brown incel man in the US doing le "cold approach" meme and being dominant and vulgar to random women only to end up in a stormfront thread with the headline "mexicans are RAPING our white women"
No.7511
>>7509>even when this person is clearly a sex-haver or else why would they be writing that inane drivel?He's not a sex-haver or autist, just a larping troll.
No.7512
>>7506>It feels like every woman I sleep with becomes a lesbian or trans at this point.This has happened to me too, but they had to find out somehow so it's fine. Some part of my psyche is obviously still nagging at me that maybe I fucked up but yeah.
No.7513
>>7384yeah actually reading those three back to back could be the premise for a short thesis or something lol like that felt like a rare moment where I actually enjoyed reading this shitty chan rather than constantly wanting to kill myself, which extends into real life as well, but thats neither here nor there. idk i'm violently high on etizolam and ketamine but yeah i liked reading those three. samefag thats me
No.7515
>>7514Your screenshot is just typical /tttt/ mindfuckery but yeah, herbivore men have been a thing for decades. I know I am one.
No.7517
>>7516tfw no big brawny union boss gf to bully me
No.7518
>>7516Sex exists outside of marriage, mr incel
No.7519
>>7512I feel like I’ve helped 4 women find out who they are and I’ve helped 4 women find loving boyfriends. I’m such a giver.
No.7520
>>7515i'm pretty comfortable with my gender identity but i'm unable to browse /tttt/ without feeling some sort of uncomfortable feeling / mild dysphoria so maybe i'm not lol. it had been a while since i was last on there but yikes some of those people are well on the way to killing themselves. not me though !!
yet lmao
No.7521
>>7518nobody said or implied this
No.7522
>>7520>not me though !!Yeah just don't visit that board and you'll be fine. Tbh the whole board does feel at times like some kind of astroturfing campaign to get trans people depressed and worse.
No.7523
>>7522its more that trans people, the majority inhabitants, have a lot of reasons to be extremely depressed, scared for their future, and broken people from the way society treats them.
No.7524
>>7523Not to mention the fact that its hosted on 4chan with pol tourists coming in when they're bored and spreading racism while pretending to be trans or outright spreading lies about us.
No.7525
>>7524idk /tttt/ is a super interesting phenomenon for me and i genuinely am hoping in a few years that there'll be academic research on it because like jesus christ being on there for even 10 minutes kinda just fills me with a horrible dread
maybe just me though lol idk
No.7526
>>7525That "horrible dread" is exactly what we're talking about and it isn't something good for your well-being long-term.
No.7527
Wow this thread turned to shit huh.
I retract my previous statement about the reaction to criticism of courtship being similar to that of small business owners.
This is more like the reaction of poor person who earnestly watches sigma grindset videos.
No.7528
>>7507Can confirm. I'm a woman.
No.7529
>>7507>does not work unless women are attracted to you and will get you arrestedYeah every time someone gets cancelled for being rapey IRL they did shit that people are suggesting ITT.
No.7530
>>7496>Guys are trying to tell you faggots how to get pussy but you don't want it.Nice homophobia I'm at a loss for why you "get pussy" with that attitude but it clearly has nothing to do with personality.
No.7531
>>377629
>>377630
Who do you think will gobble the bullshit you're spreading?
Just read the posts above yours and piss off.
No.7532
>>7514While I am very much horny, I also suffer from falling on the feminine side socially. Soft spoken, conflict-avoidant, anxious, submissive, desiring to be pursued rather than pursuer. The last one in particular is heavily burdening my mind, makes me relate to lot of stuff over at /tttt/ despite being cis. Like I dont want to be physically a woman, I just want to be different kind of man, to be pretty, and being treated as such, rather than being stuck in my current body.
No.7533
>>377630
Its misogynistic to say women are animals that can smell the fear of people who aren't willing to verbally abuse them for an introduction. Maybe this shit works for you and gets you laid somehow, but getting laid with strangers who enjoy verbal abuse isn't my goal. My goal is to find a woman who is my friend first, girlfriend second, wife third. And to respect and love each other.
No.7534
>>377636
>if you aren't willing to verbally assault every woman you see until one has sex with you you are a coward
No.7535
>>7532>conflict-avoidantThat's not being feminine, just a levelheaded person.
No.7536
>>377638
>>everything is too nuanced for autismos
shut the fuck up anon. you vulgar sack of shit. calling me an autismo like it's a slur you can insult me with. maybe you've fucked more girls than me, but you're a vile person and also really stupid to think your advice is even remotely useful
No.7537
>>377643
>Alright bro. My advice wasn't just for you personally. I believe you understood nothing and you won't fuck either. That's fine. Be happy with it. You think I'm vile, next you're going to be soft ranting about women and how they don't appreciate nice guys like yourself.
I'm a girl retard
No.7538
>>377648
>Well anon at least you are aware of what your problem is. It seems like you understand why your mentality is wrong as well. Go trans or gay or whatever if you can't overcome it. I'll tell you as a man women sometimes pursue in their own way, sometimes. It's going to get you nowhere. Women are going to expect you to pursue in the end always if you want to seal the deal. It is what it is what it is.
shut the fuck up anon. nothing is wrong with them. you are a male chauvinist pig enforcing cishet patriarchal norms. you have no place even pretending to be a communist.
No.7539
>>377650
>men not following caricaturized bourgeois portrayals of masculinity distributed into the proletariat as it is part of the ideology of the dominant class are "wrong" and "incels" just have to accept society as it is rather than radically change it into something new and better through criticizing everything in existence
some communist anon keep posturing as some relationship guru and knower of everything about human relationships, and projecting your own relationship and human sexuality and gender viewpoints onto other as the only option
No.7540
>>377655
shut up misogynist. if you knew i was a transhumanist you wouldn't be saying that, you'd be calling me transhumanist slurs not cis lesbian slurs. so you are a misogynist.
No.7541
>>7540Ok so you are a transman? Good for you. I hope it works out for you. My advice is strictly for cismen dating ciswomen.
No.7543
>>7541cis men can be feminine and still date cis women and your advice is not applicable, it's "you are wrong and have to change yourself to be masculine like me" LMAO
No.7545
Every day some giga schizo is occupying this general. Either someone going full incel or now the "I am so sexy, everyone wants to sex me" in all likelihood a fully deluded person
No.7546
>>377681
I do well. Which is why I don't go on the internet to act out like a child.
No.7548
More like relationshit general
Am I right folks
No.7549
>>7548Shizo/samefag/troll has been purged
>>7514>I would never hold hands with or kiss a stranger let alone have sex. I want a relationship. How do you expect that to work? How are you going to comfortable having a relationship if you're not comfortable with low level intimacy?
Strangers can turn into SOs, but you need time to build a relationship. If you shy away from the initial steps it'll never go anywhere
No.7551
Lad/lass pls check in, I cry
No.7552
>>7535Nope, that's being a weakling, sorry.
Unless you are really rich, you will have to deal with conflict in your life.
No.7553
>>7552I meant it more like lacking assertiveness. There just arent many things I would care about enough to fight people over.
>>7550Gay guys and trans women certainly have their share of struggles, but not being able to fuck is rarely one of them.
>>7549I think one of the problems with heterosexual dating is caused by women holding this kind of attitude. I heard so many women complain guys just want to fuck them rather than genuinely appreciate their personality, but they are talking about randos they just met or matched on apps. You dont know each other, there is nothing for them to be attracted to other than your looks.
No.7554
>>7550Implying that straight and gay dating have the same dynamics is utterly crazy lmaoo
No.7555
>>7514this is why its over for autistic people
No.7556
>>7553>I heard so many women complain guys just want to fuck them rather than genuinely appreciate their personality, I have found complimenting personality and vibe is indeed more effective than focusing on looks. Which is something you mostly don't need to do, as it should be obvious you're into them
No.7557
>>7556Yeah, but its isnt obvious if she is into me. I have female friends, we vibe together, they dont want to fuck me though.
No.7558
>>7557How do you know for sure? Sometimes it isn't obvious, or they might not, but all it takes to change that is to make your move
You gotta be more assertive instead of just waiting for something to happen
No.7559
>>7558I dont know for sure, but considering I was not given any signals that tell me otherwise, they are most likely not. And hitting on you female friends comes at the risk of ruining the friendship. But yeah, I do need to take more risks, but again, openly asking women if they want to fuck in a way that wont turn them off requires level of charm I do not possess.
No.7560
No one said it has to be about romantic relationships, I (and the other person too tbh, albeit to a lesser degree as they do have IRL friends) am pretty shitty when it comes to social skills and interactions, even on the internet. For more context, me and her are depressed fuckos, it's something I've realized and have been coping with for a long time, she not so much.
I recently got a new PC, which is pretty good and I am very excited about, my old PC was utterly trash, would freeze constantly and couldn't run many programs at all, it'd even struggle with Twine or Qbittorrent being open for a long enough time would bring it to a halt, swap was constantly filled in at least 50%, PC couldn't handle 1080p videos and the temperature of CPU was constantly at 60ºC and trying to game would make it heat up even more, not so bad tho, max it ever hit was 71ºC. The really annoying thing about it was how loud it was, could hear it s fans from the other side of the house when it was turned on.
One day before it arrived, I was excited and telling her about how big of an improvement a new PC would be for me, she said "at least one of us is having a good day" and we went on to talk about her family drama and does, which made me feel guilty about something good happening to me.
On the day it arrived I didn't talk to her for most of the time as I spent the whole day building it (first time doing it) and troubleshooting the issues, also going out to buy stuff I forgot: A converter cable for HDMI and thermal paste. Once it was done, really late at night, I tested youtube videos and amazingly, now I can watch in 1080P without the video shitting itself, temperature is constantly at 40C, haven't used a single % of swap so far and can leave stuff open all I want. Great success, I can even compile stuff now and it won't take the whole day (along with not being able to use the PC while stuff compiles). Even discovered that Brigador is actually a fast-paced game, I thought it was slow-paced but it was just low fps lmao.
Done the tests, I went to talk to her excited about it, and she wanted to compare specs of my PC with hers, once done, she started talking about how much better it is than hers, and I disagreed, our CPUs are almost the same, I have more ram, but she actually got a pretty good GPU while I only have integrated graphics, it's fine for me as most games I play are lightweight and run much better now, and while I know depressed fuckheads can't help but be pessimistic, it annoyed me that she jumped straight up to comparison to tell me about how bad her PC is, and the guilt started to crept into me once again. Then we went on to talk about her family drama and woes.
Next day I didn't wanna talk to her about the PC at all, as all it did was reinforce my guilty feelings (which were pretty high anyway because I got another friend that have a PC almost as shit as mine was), eventually she brought it up, to which I said the new PC is working fine, she asked if my lack of enthusiasm is because the PC isn't a good as I thought it would be, and I answered it is, she asked why I'm not excited about it then, and my answer was that I'm now more concerned about using it than talking about it.
I now feel guilty about not saying more, the fourth paragraph in here is easily something I could have said when she prompted me, and I do want to express it when I have good feelings and I'm happy, but my fear of guilt made me shut it down albeit I also do feel it was justified. So yeah, this is my humblebrag about my new PC and also a request advice on how to be less damaged when talking to people, what I did wrong and how to do better.
No.7561
>>7560It sounds like she’s basically emotionally Pavlov’ing you into not talking about positive things in your life and using you purely as an ear to vent her woes. This isn’t a bad thing and I think people who call ‘trauma dumping’ are silly. But the fact is that you are now avoiding her because she turns every good or fun or interesting thing into how much her life sucks. It’s the opposite of story one-ups-manship. It’s not building community and it’s not strengthening a bond. It’s just her screaming into the void, and you were the ear to listen. I realize that the true facts of the situation may be different from her perspective. I realize that y’all may just be young and completely incompetent at expressing yourselves in an articulate way.
The advice is to say ‘hey I finally found something to distract myself temporarily from the horrors and pains of the human condition and every time I try to share it with you I feel guilt because you bring up how bad your computer and family life are instead of asking if I want to test it out with some counter strike go.” She probably doesn’t even realize what she’s doing and you have to be the smart one to look at the situation outside of yourself. What would you suggest you do? I suggest you be the grown up and share your feelings.
No.7562
>>377718
You need to go back
No.7563
Please mods don't let them make another thread like this
No.7564
>>7562It's funny how whiny they get when they are asked to integrate once (or perceive to be """the other"""). I have some good friends that are straight lol
but like what sort of behavior is this?
No.7565
>>7563>>7550>The LGBT thread is much better including for relationship advice, this sex general has once again become the incel containment/lgbt/ is the official leftypol relationship general. All cishets must be purged. Lol the OP picture is of a man with a gun to his head. That's all fantastic tho.
No.7566
>>7564Why can't we have one straight thread on this website? I don't post in the lgbt thread.
No.7567
>>7566Because idpol losers aren't happy unless they're wrecking, why do you think any serious organization doesn't include activists in their ranks?
No.7568
>>7566You can be straight, just integrate. Like you'd ask a Syrian to. If you don't get why that is funny, I dunno.
No.7569
>>7568>You can be straight, just integrate. Like you'd ask a Syrian to. If you don't get why that is funny, I dunno.wutt
No.7570
>>7569>>>377729>>You can be straight, just integrate. Like you'd ask a Syrian to. If you don't get why that is funny, I dunno.>wuttwhy do people do this
No.7571
>>7570They failed calculus 1.
No.7572
>>7571they failed not being retarded
No.7573
>>7569>>7570wut
Look, I have nothing against straights but why they have to be everywhere. I am just trying to watch a cereal commercial. Straight people everywhere.
No.7574
>>7568I have no problem posting on LGBT thread, but considering the differences in topics, keeping it separate makes most sense.
No.7575
>>7573I assume you were born of straight people.
No.7576
>>7573i went to africa and there were africans everywhere what the fuck how are there so many minorities
No.7577
>>7574The straights can get their separate but equal drinking fountain but it will be painted rainbow colors.
No.7578
Well there you have it. This thread is queer eye for the straight guy. Hope you losers are able to gleam something from it.
No.7579
>>7549>How do you expect that to work? How are you going to comfortable having a relationship if you're not comfortable with low level intimacy?>Strangers can turn into SOs, but you need time to build a relationship. If you shy away from the initial steps it'll never go anywhereObviously you start as strangers, become friends, and escalate to intimacy. Not start the intimacy right away. That's how it works for me.
No.7580
>>7566Who said we can't? The problem is these kinds of threads devolve into incel threads.
>>7567Okay bigot
No.7581
>>7577The straights will be hanged if they make another thread like this.
QUEER POWER
No.7582
>>7580I would think incels would be the main people in need of dating advice by definition. I guess your advice works too.
>just go gay bro No.7583
>>7581I'm not saying they are bad but if they don't like it why don't they just take a bus back to straight country?
No.7585
>>7581seems like some false flag shit. fuck you anon. straights will not be "hanged" retard why would you be so violent and anti-social?
re-education camp for you
No.7586
>>7583"Not having sex" isn't a struggle for most queer people. For all intent and purpose any relationship/sex threads will always attract single cishet males for the same reason why gas stations attract car owners and not cyclists
No.7587
Have you incels tried going to a gay bar?
No.7588
>>7582I already made a thread where I gave people real advice and it didn't devolve into an incel circle like this and the last thread. Problem is the normalcunts ruined it with their misguided input.
No.7589
>>7588>normalcuntsSo advice on doing normal stuff is better from abnormalcunts?
No.7590
I think my problems with relationships don't reflect those of the people here, maybe it's because of my culture, I don't know enough about America.
Most of my issues relate to women objectifying themselves in relationship, and not just in the sense of making themselves the object of sexual desire, but literally making every single aspect of a relationship an exchange, where they are the object, and men have to be the subjects. It goes from simple shit, like men having to plan dates, having to pay, having to be entretainers, while women are the object of the date, being submited to the man's plans or schemes and semi-silently judging. It goes deeper, men have to make the moves at every step, it's a man's job to grab your hand, to kiss you, to fuck you. I've often kissed women who were into it, who so far seemed to have given no active signs beyond being entretained by my dates, and having good conversations, becaue the mere fact of having to show interest in an active way is socially inaceptable, it's all just ways of picking up underlying signs that she is enjoying herself and simply trying not to show. After a relationship starts it does get a little bit better, but the dynamic continues, as soon as you ask them to start pulling their own weight, to be more active, to pull their own weight, they get bored, they are there to be the objects, anybody else has this problem?
No.7591
>>7590Sounds the same as America except the incels don't even get to square one of a date because they're being trained to be homosexuals.
No.7592
>>7589I will rephrase this to something more comprehensible. People who have not had certain issues are incompetent to give advice on how to overcome these issues, but they believe they are because they have had success. This success though comes from not having had the kinds of issues that the other person has.
No.7593
>>7590>Feminimity involves the masquerade of beijg the phallusWomen deliberately objectify themselves to make themselves attractive. A woman that is capable and not a simple, passive object of desire is not desirable as she resembles a man more than a woman
No.7594
>>7592I don't know if I agree with that. I think the reason most of you are abnormalcunts is because you didn't interact enough with normalcunts growing up and you have a lot of weird ideas in your head about how to do normal stuff. It isn't rocket science. You fags are over thinking it.
No.7595
>>7593Not true, I've both dated less attractive women, like some ugly tbh, and some masculine, and they expect the same shit, when you display you want more of an equal relationship is like they got offended because you are not fufilling your duty as a man.
No.7596
>>7594Undersocialization may be the reason, yes, but not necessarily. It can also be the result of trauma, being on the spectrum, having crippled self-esteem. Clearly, this matter is very difficult for some guys. If you think this is easy it means you can‘t put yourself in their shoes which confirms what I said that people like you aren’t qualified to help such people.
No.7597
>>7596>Undersocialization may be the reason, yes, but not necessarily. It can also be the result of trauma, being on the spectrum, having crippled self-esteem. Clearly, this matter is very difficult for some guys. If you think this is easy it means you can‘t put yourself in their shoes which confirms what I said that people like you aren’t qualified to help such people.it's so surprising to see the individualist attitude in this thread on a communist site. it should be clear to anyone thinking about things from a broader lens that many factors can result in a person becoming an "incel" ranging from years of bad luck, low effort, poor social development in childhood, developmental disorders like autism, anxiety disorders like social phobia, simply not fitting in with gender norms (since they are social constructs), living somewhere with a skewed male-female gender ratio, etc.
And yet we see posters saying
>You aren't trying>You're a pussy>Call women a cunt and ask them to suck your dick until one of them agrees>You didn't follow my 1 simple tip "be aggressive"etc.
As if this shit tier advice that offers no practical actions is worth typing. But people who are successful at relationships might become deluded enough to believe these things, since they grew up in that same framework of individualism being the dominant mode of understanding relationships, and therefore attribute to themselves and their specific actions a degree of legitimacy and competence that is unfounded and in some of those cases even toxic
No.7598
>>377765
But you abnormals are the individualists. Everyone else is doing one thing and you just want to circlejerk and rationalize about how doing the wrong thing is right because x, y, z.
No.7599
>>7598>But you abnormals are the individualists. Everyone else is doing one thing and you just want to circlejerk and rationalize about how doing the wrong thing is right because x, y, z.No, not everyone else is doing one thing. You don't speak for all people. You think there is one single universal method used by all people, even all cishet people, that is needed to work? Sorry, but you don't have a monopoly on relationships and relationship advice.
>>377770I'm not seeing any approach from you, this is an anonymous board. No idea who you are.
No.7600
>>7597>it's so surprising to see the individualist attitudeWell, believe it or not bitch but I can‘t snap my finger and change the fabric of society, nor does philosophizing about society’s condition help these people in this moment, which is why I am taking a therapeutic approach. That shouldn‘t be rocket science.
>And yet we see posters saying>>You aren't trying>>You're a pussy>>Call women a cunt and ask them to suck your dick until one of them agrees>>You didn't follow my 1 simple tip "be aggressive"Could you come up with a more delusional strawman, lmao.
No.7601
>>7590>I think my problems with relationships don't reflect those of the people hereNo, what you described absolutely relates to people here. The cause for male sexlessness is in general not insufficient physical attractivness, but unability to act out heterosexual dating script.
>>7593>A woman that is capable and not a simple, passive object of desire is not desirableThis is literally female version of "women only go for bad boys". Basically every single piece of romantic media made by women for women features a small timid heroine being soft-dommed by a powerful (both physically and socially) man.
On the topic of advice, I am currently reading Ethical Slut, and the part on flirting opens with
>Everybody is born knowing how to flirt, and if you doubt it, watch the way a babyor toddler interacts with nearby adults: lots of eye contact, smiles, maybe a chortle
of welcome, and the offer of a beloved toy (which must, according to the rules, be
handed back after due admiration, just like adult toys).
So yeah, anon in the last thread put it the best, normie advice on how to solve your problems presumes you dont have a problem in the first place.
No.7602
>>7600>Could you come up with a more delusional strawman, lmao.Literally read the thread LMAO
No.7603
>>7602Actually I take that back, you can't read it anymore it was evidently deleted by the jannies. But it was there last night.
No.7604
>>7601>>Everybody is born knowing how to flirt, if you have autism you can't
No.7605
Incelism is just evolution working itself out.
No.7606
>>7605>Incelism is just evolution working itself out.This is a fascist ideological talking point
No.7607
>>7602Control F doesn‘t bring up any post where anyone said what you said. No one called anyone a pussy. No one said you should call women cunts until they suck your dick. No one said you should be aggressive. You are just fantasizing to stay a victim.
No.7608
>>7607The guy who spewed that shit got purged by mods.
No.7609
Have you guys tried being more sensitive? That's probably your problem. You're not in touch with your femininity enough.
No.7610
>>7608Ah,
a guy. A moment ago you were talking about poster
s. And why are you focusing on an exception? What does that prove about the norm?
No.7611
How do I become more submissive and breedable… for women?
No.7612
>>7611Unfortunately, for women those two things are negatively correlated with each other.
No.7613
>>7612I just want a dommy mommy to step on me and fuck me with a plastic penis uwu.
No.7614
You know what's really subverting gender norms my male feminist friends? Having sex with men.
No.7616
>>7615Why not just go gay, or at least date a transwoman with a penis?
No.7617
I’m going to a zine fest tomorrow. Any tips for meeting someone there?
I’m a straight cis woman BTW.
No.7618
>>7617Walk up to them, talk to them.
No.7620
>>7617Just start talking to people? You are a woman, people arent offended or feel threatened by your presence, you literally cant fuck this one up.
No.7621
>>7617If you have the courage then approach someone who looks interesting to you. You can use whatever caught your interest as a conversation starter. Smile and laugh at his jokes, that will charm him. If he‘s into you as well and confident he will take charge. If he doesn‘t then don‘t beat yourself up over it, it wasn‘t meant to be. I don‘t know anything about zinefest, but if there are any social activities like an afterparty or whatever then you can use that as a date idea. You just make a hint that you wanted to go there and then he might pick up on it and take the initiative.
No.7622
>>7621>Smile and laugh at his jokes, that will charm him. If he‘s into you as well and confident he will take charge. If he doesn‘t then don‘t beat yourself up over it, it wasn‘t meant to bethis advice is basically "exist"?
No.7623
>>7622Life is so unfair. Why can't women have penises and balls to breed our bussies?
No.7624
>>7621>Smile and laugh at his jokes, that will charm him. If he‘s into you as well and confident he will take charge. If he doesn‘t then don‘t beat yourself up over it, it wasn‘t meant to be.>You just make a hint that you wanted to go there and then he might pick up on it and take the initiativeWhy would you possibly advise her in this way?
No.7625
>>7624To weed out socially inept and unconfident men. And unfortunately many men tend to take women less seriously as relationship material or value her „when they make it too easy.“
No.7626
>>7625>To weed out socially inept and unconfident menAnd why do you feel she needs an encouragement to do this? She didnt even say she wants to avoid such men. The point being, you are on a communist board, dont go around telling people to stick within their gender role.
No.7627
>>7626>The point being, you are on a communist board, dont go around telling people to stick within their gender role.So true sis. She should be wrecking our bussies.
No.7628
>>7625>To weed out socially inept and unconfident men. And unfortunately many men tend to take women less seriously as relationship material or value her „when they make it too easy.“holy shit lmao. you are such a bad person.
No.7629
>>7626>And why do you feel she needs an encouragement to do this? She didnt even say she wants to avoid such men. The point being, you are on a communist board, dont go around telling people to stick within their gender role.based. we need reeducation for everyone enforcing cishet patriarchal roles. imagine telling that woman to be coy and shy and quite literally "do nothing but just hope someone else does something".
No.7630
>>7628this is the fake helping hand. there are fakes going around giving bad advice to incels. the real one would never give bad advice knowingly
No.7632
>>7617Basic bitch advise applies, just try to make friends. Be an active part of the conversation, and try to ask people questions if they seem interesting, smile. Advanced advise, mimic people's body language, laugh at their jokes, touch your hair If you like the guy, or smile at him, or touch him, or escalate the conversation with dirty jokes
No.7633
>>7626>>7625>>7617I'm a woman and "gender roles" poster is right. Men hate women who are into them, if they think you're desperate or easy they won't want to be with you. They'll very happily use you soullessly and lead you on, though. They also hate women who are forward or show interest. They pretend they don't online, in real life I've only ever managed to keep men interested in me by sporadically ignoring them and not responding for at least a day. I gave up on love because I don't like pretending to dislike a man I'm interested in just to keep him from ghosting me. Men get online and claim they don't like women playing games, but secretly most of them like it and won't talk to you if you've got a healthy way of communicating your interest. <5% of the men I've ever talked to are not interested in such games.
No.7634
>>7633stop spreading toxic self-defeating advice femcel
No.7635
This thread sucks.
No.7636
>>7633>They'll very happily use you soullessly and lead you on, though. They also hate women who are forward or show interest. They pretend they don't online, in real life I've only ever managed to keep men interested in me by sporadically ignoring them and not responding for at least a day><5% of the men I've ever talked to are not interested in such games.Gee, it's almost like you're going exclusively after that type of men.
No.7638
>>7637This thread wants to fuck.
No.7639
>>7634>>7636You people frame yourselves as being progressive and anti-patriarchal but reading the previous posts it's obvious you guys are just coping incels and that what you are advocating for just stems from having failed to approach women so you demonize what you can't do. It's a self-righteous cope. Point in case, if you actually cared about women, then why are you attacking a woman
>>7633 who is voicing her genuine grievances? Even if you disagree with her, why is your response to insult or gaslight her?
She's right. Most men don't value women who make it too easy and treat them worse. So women have to play hard to get under these circumstances to avoid that. I'm sure you guys will respond with that you are not like that. The problem is that you losers don't have experience so you don't know how you would respond. Plus, you guys are bottom of the barrel and desperate to get anything you can. Of course guys like you will advocate for women to be more forward and to make it easy, while not considering the downside for women.
No.7640
Thread devolved into people screeching at each other that they are the REAL progressives here while the others are ideologically incels and I don't want to read 400 posts to find out how.
No.7641
>>7633I see your point anon, but keep in mind, this is not a gendered thing, if you talk too often with a woman, she will also ghost you. If you show interest too eagarly she will ghost you, if you are straight to the point she will ghost you. It's all about trying to show interest in an ambigious way, to not have the person be certain if you like them or not, to give them some possible attention, but sporadically, and not realiably. Do you really think men are the only ones who do this?
No.7642
>>7641I've had women who told me I was a good catch, good looking, that they wanted to fuck me, etc, be turned away because I wasn't playing enough, that or they will just have you buy them food and not be interested. Like I was also like you, at one point trying not to play, but society turned me into the kind of man who does exactly this
No.7643
>>7641>this is not a gendered thingThis is a gendered thing because women who are forward will be labeled as sluts and are excluded from being seen as girlfriend material which is founded on the Madonna Whore complex. On the one hand, people value people less when they are too available and when people are needy in dating it feels overbearing for people so they are turned off. So here we have a non-gendered general phenomena. On the other hand though, as I've described, there is an additional gendered component involved from which women suffer from.
No.7644
>>7643Your main point is how men will ignore women who talk too much to them, which is not at all related to the madona whore complex. I don't know the first man who labels women who talked to them whores, rather they get bored because women seem too available, like my post describes. So nothing to do with the madona whore complex in your comment. Although that is a real issue, I will admit
No.7645
>>7644>women who talk too much to themNo, that's not it. I'm saying women who are too forward to men are seen as "easy" or as sluts. And men treat such women worse and don't see them as potential girlfriends. Unless it's a dude with no options who falls easily in love with any girl.
No.7646
>>7645Is this an American thing?
No.7647
>>7646It's a patriarchy thing.
No.7648
>>7645okay, then, if this is your point then I see what you are saying, it's true. Men have a version of the same thing and traditional masculinity though, so I still think this is everybody. As a man you are also expected to behave in a certain way that makes you feel like shit, this is not an aspect women a specially oppresed in, we all are
No.7649
>>7643>>7639>>7645I think you're projecting your personal experiences and seething all the while, because you're a social introvert like 99% of people itt but is hiding behind the gendered postures.
>>7646It's a thing of western societies with a modicum of traditionalism.
No.7650
>I can't seem too desperate or I'll only get desperate men(who I don't want)
the ironing.
No.7651
>>7649>social introvert *social inept
No.7652
why is everyone so passive-aggressive itt
No.7653
>>7652>why is everyone so passive-aggressiveIt's the heart of every relationship.
No.7654
>>7653Makes you think why people here are seeking a relationship if everyone is going to behave like a manipulative bastard, in the end.
No.7655
>>7643Right, but isnt your dating strategy then optimalised towards *not* turning off that kind of sexist men? Its not like those attitudes towards women disappear when he is the one doing the approaching.
And just looking at it statistically, if you passively wait for men to hit on you, you are going to disproportionally get men who hit on everyone, and are more likely to pump and dump. Like I am not blaming you for not making the first move, its fucking sucks, I wouldnt do it either if I didnt have to, but pretending taking initiative somehow ruins your chances of finding desirable partner is a cope. The more effort you put in, the better results you are gonna get.
No.7656
>>7655>pretending taking initiative somehow ruins your chances of finding desirable partner is a copeIts not even a cope, its a cishet patriarchal norm that is harmful to women for the reasons you described
No.7657
>>7656You know, your pretentiousness really irks me because you present yourself to have this materialist understanding but your approach is philosophically idealist, individualist and moralistic. You want women to refuse playing along the patriarchal dating dynamic as if that would change the superstructure that is the product of the material base. It‘s not realistic and it‘s not going to change the superstructure. Things will remain as they are for now. Until we have socialism the best women can do is optimizing their results under the current dating dynamic. And having a sexist boyfriend with a high mating value is preferable to having an incel boyfriend of a low mating value who pretends to be progressive (as a cope).
No.7658
>>7657>high mating valuewtf lmaoooo
No.7659
>>7654the thread contains more slapfights than either advice or people asking for advice and thats pretty funny
No.7660
>>7657"Material base" here is literally just women being less horny.
Also
>high mating value No.7661
>>7657>And having a sexist boyfriend with a high mating value is preferable to having an incel boyfriend of a low mating value who pretends to be progressive (as a cope).Lol
Lmao even
No.7662
>>7655>The more effort you put in, the better results you are gonna get.Communist incels trying to escape the labor theory of value: devastatingly ineffective
No.7663
>>7657Of course you'd also use terms like "mating values".
No.7665
letting pseuds overuse marxist jargon was a mistake
No.7666
>>7657Tl;dr you acknowledge his point but say you're comfortable with things as they are because you know it will be of more advantage than if actively trying to change.
It's
definitely another day of femcel subscribing to the current system.
No.7667
>>7633Everybody is different. Anybody pushing a line to the effect of "men are like this" or "women like that" is just telling you what their Type is.
No.7668
>>7657This is true and we must stop pretending it isn't. Women would absolutely prefer a neo-nazi boyfried with good mating value over progressive incels because biologically speaking women have more reproductive risks than men(men can produce a gazillion sperm every day, women can only produce once a month and undergo a grueling 9 months gestation period after that) and they need to maximize their reproductive opportunity to create an ideal offspring
No.7669
>>7666This too, women refuses to fully abandon the patriarchal system because as it stands today they benefit more from it than in previous eras. Its the mentality of the noveau-bourg, the venture capitalists
No.7670
>>7668wheres that comic /pol/tards made of a "nazi chad" showing up to woo a bunch of feminists lmao
No.7671
>>7667leftypol try to demystify sex and acknowledge that people have different bodies, tastes and preferences challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
No.7672
This chick might cure the guys itt of their incelism when they realize real women are like her and not like their animus.
No.7673
>>7666>you're comfortable with things as they are because you know it will be of more advantage than if actively trying to change.No dumbass, if I want the patriarchal dating dynamic to be overcome then this will be accomplished through the establishment of socialism. Your Nice Guy complaint that women should choose to not date assholes to change the dating dynamic is idealist, individualist and moralistic. You are like a liberal who advocates to buy metal straws to save the turtles. Kill yourself.
No.7675
>>7673Jesus woman! Is asking individual business owners to stop exploiting migrant workers also "individualistic and moralistic" in your opinion?
>Well capitalism is inherently exploitative of all labour, so instead of pressing Elon Musk or any other specific porkies to stop exploiting child labour we must focus on general class warfare! No.7676
>>7673The leftcom of sex has logged on.
No.7677
>>7657>>7673So that's it isn't, the whole point is not really about men not liking women approaching them, it's really about you feeling entitled to have a "hight value mate", while still behaving outside the gender patriarchal norm, while you pretend it is about men not liking women who seem like whores. Congratulations, you have just reproduced the incel logic.
No.7678
No one gonna question why she would want hangout with an asshole all day?
No.7679
>>7673>Your Nice Guy complaint that women should choose to not date assholes to change the dating dynamic is idealist, individualist and moralistic. You are like a liberal who advocates to buy metal straws to save the turtles. Kill yourself.Nobody is telling women not to date assholes for some social change purposes. They literally just said, if you don't like assholes don't date them, and here are some ways to avoid them
If you want to date them have at it
No.7680
>>7675Literally yes bitch
No.7681
>>7678And does she likes assholes because they are attractive, or is she attracted to them becayse they are assholes?
No.7682
>>7681Yeah that's a good point
>I don't like it when I have to do play games when dating>I am also the most attracted to men who play games with meI pray to Allah every day that he keeps me far away from women like this, even being the "high value partner"
No.7684
>>7672I've dated before and none of the girls were mental like this.
>>7673>let's strive towards socialism but until then let the mating value dynamics (a highly pozzed neolib concept) be the norm okay guize No.7685
>>7680Hahahah, oh God, this thread is really a goldmine. I thought we're all over the "revolution can only happen globally" thing after the Great October Revolution. I think Lenin wrote about this?
No.7686
>>7675>Is asking individual business owners to stop exploiting migrant workers also "individualistic and moralistic" in your opinion? That's 100% exactly what those words mean, yes.
No.7687
>>7686Yes,yes lets stop wildcat strikes and buy blood diamond with reckless abandon! There is no ethical consumption under capitalism anyways guy! I would've bought slaves had i been born two centuries ago!
No.7688
>>7687>I would've bought slaves had i been born two centuries ago!This dude is apparently independent of the material environment he is in and just thinks up the good moral ideas that define who he is. Hmm, very interesting.
No.7689
>>7687Strikes aren't asking a capitalist to do something idiot. It's when you force concessions and notably you do it collectively. The ultimate form of a strike is a general strike, where the entire system is being affected. It's not a function of individualism or morality.
No.7690
>>7688Do you think Chiang Kai-Shek was justified in genociding communists because he was, after all, just a product of his militaristic reactionary education?
No.7691
>>7688Man not only you are suggesting pursuing abstract idea of socialism independent from actual issues currently affecting the world, but you are doing it in context of getting laid. Just accept you wrote a silly thing, take an L and move on.
No.7692
>>7690>justifiedI wouldn‘t have reasoned anything based on that. You are clearly some sort of unself-aware utopian socialist.
No.7693
>>7688This dude is apparently independent of the material environment he is in and just thinks up the good moral ideas that define who he is. Hmm, very interesting.
In all seriousness, you're grasping at straws trying to put everyone on the same pragmatical-hypocrite pattern you subscribe to.
You don't want actual socialism nor an end to patriarchy, you just want dudes you think are up to your standards to stop ignoring you.
No.7694
>>7692I'm not an "utopian" socialist. I'm simply calling out people who think they are justified in sexually rewarding the patriarchal system by telling themselves that ethical behaviour is impossible except after a socialist revolution(that they don't fight for). In this way you can perpetuate the system of oppressions but that's ok because you're "aware" of how bad it is and you feel guilty about it, its just that everything forces your hand! Truly the peak of revolutionary mentality under capitalist realism.
No.7695
>>7688Lmao you feeling so self righteous about such a topic is hilarious, so you'd give up being with someone you might be otherwise compatible, give up being with someone you can tolerate politically, and someone willing to meet your absurd standards just because of a high value reactionary male? Honestly you deserve them, and I hope you get them
No.7697
It's this kind of duplicitous attitude that makes me irremediably suspicious of zoomers, like how are we to turn the tide at this point even? When most of young people have idealized concepts of revolution but pragmatically enable this stage of capitalism with every breath, because doing anything is viewed as moralistic.
No.7698
>>7697I don't think random posts on an imageboard interpreted in a certain way means that revolution is doomed lol. Also people online or in general say dumb things sometimes, it doesn't mean that everyone in society thinks a certain thing and will think it forever or whatever
No.7699
>>7697why did you even bring up le zoomers dude
No.7700
>>7672At first I was going to disagree with this. But then I realized I have the same attitude and have rejected women for being
too into me.
After doing some self
crit reflection I think this boils down to there being safety in being the pursuer. I decide the pace, when to escalate, I'm in control. And when I stop caring I don't have to worry about woman demanding my attention.
I've rejected guys too for this reason.This isn't men wanting women to play games, but men wanting to be in control of the relationship
>but secretly most of them like it and won't talk to you if you've got a healthy way of communicating your interest.In general I find a lot of guys have trouble listening to what a woman wants or being interested in what she has to say. And many women being afraid to communicate out of fear they'll be rejected. Sad shit tbh
No.7702
>>7696women who fuck nazis are nazis too. they are reproducing and materially supporting nazism. they cannot be communists.
No.7703
>>7702and before you call me out, men who fuck nazis are also nazis too.
No.7704
>>7698Dunno, I often have to deal with younger people and the prospect is far from good. It's of no surprise so much of corporate culture has been bled into the minds of boys and girls hitting 20.
>>7699Because I'm a millennial.
No.7705
>>7697>>7704attributing capitalist realism to a single generation is fucking stupid
No.7706
>>7705Theorylet here, enlighten me.
No.7707
>>7706sorry im not calling you stupid, im just saying capitalist realism has been a pervasive thing for longer than "gen z" and implying otherwise is just silly generational bullshit
No.7708
>>7171>without the bloody murder at the endpackage deal
Do you want a revolution without revolution, citoyen?
No.7709
>>7676This is absolutely the dumbest shit ever
but at least it is something new. Like I almost enjoy the pain of cringe.
No.7710
Idk why anons here assume the poster talking about high mating value sexists is a woman. "High value man" is an expression used by FDS types, and generally agree being a sexist precludes you from being one.
No.7711
>>7710What is an FDS? Speak-a the english or italiano so I can-a undastand you
No.7713
>>7710Nice deduction, but FDS teaches women to expect men to play the patriarchal courtship game, such as men paying for all dates. The debate started because Helping Hand was called a sexist for advising Antifa poster to approach men according to what others called a patriarchal gender role. So it follows that FDS is also sexist according to the standards of you guys and that FDS probably means something else when they mean don't date sexist men.
No.7714
>>7711It was basically a female redpill community. It was supposed to give women advice on how to "level up", avoid "low value" and attract "high value" men. Mixture of girlbossing and tradwifeing, yaaas slay queen aesthetics, radfem (read: TERF) leaning. Disproportionate ethnic (read: non-white) following. FDS itself is basically dead now, but that kind dating strategy/worldview is still popular.
>>7713I know, but no woman would openly say they like sexist men, even if in reality they find some aspects of it appealing.
No.7715
>>7712Is this the femversion of redpill or something?
No.7716
>>7715I'm dumb, it's literally here
>>7714 No.7717
Every weekend I spend alone I get slightly closer to shotgunning myself in the head.
No.7718
>>7704>>7697As usual, millennials cannot stop with the generational labelling. They nitpick their juniors so much that they invent fantastical folklore about them.
Never mind the fact they do the same thing.
>>7561>I realize that y’all may just be young and completely incompetent at expressing yourselves in an articulate way. Youth is not inherent diagnosis for personal flaws.
>>7532Soft spoken amd imtroversion arent feminine.
Youre just not fitting into the flagship male stereotype. I also understand ypur plight, but unless youre bishonen handsome, its not gonna work. Youre just gonna attract men instead, not that its a bad thing.
>>7700From what I see, its usually women whom reject men whom are obviously eager for them.
Or, they string them along as an orbiter.
No.7719
>>7717Read the previous posts itt and you will discouraged.
No.7720
>>7719What posts specifically? There are over 500 of them and most of them are people shouting at eachother.
No.7721
>>7717Then fucking do it already. No one cares that you can‘t get laid. I can‘t imagine a more trivial problem than some single guy unable to get laid.
No.7722
>>7721It doesn't feel trivial to me .
No.7724
>>7723this is not a very nice thread
No.7725
>>7720Just read uygha.
>>7721Fuck off, femcel.
No.7726
>>7717distract yourself with hobbies
No.7727
>>7724So you decided to go out of your way to make it worse? Nobody was telling anyone to kill themselves before you shit-for-brain came here.
No.7728
>>7727im not that guy but this thread brings the worst people. these incels need help, but people come here to demoralise, fake chads and helping hands giving bad advice
No.7729
>>7728>incels need helpThere's nothing that could help me. At least the fake chads and doomers are honest about what I can expect from the future.
No.7730
>>7729next time use notepad.exe instead of whining here if you dont want help
No.7732
>>7730Ok I will sorry.
>>7731I don't think so.
No.7733
>>7729Might as well try to fix your situation, no? You are at rock bottom, doing nothing is guaranteed loosing strategy.
No.7734
Why don‘t you all meet up to form a gang bang pile? This way you will all lose your incel status and the amount of séx will compensate for all the time you‘ve been séxless
No.7735
>>7734For every 100 incels on this board there is 0.25 of a woman. The numbers simply make it unfeasible.
No.7737
>>7717why do you need a gf so badly you're willing to kill yourself if you don't get one? i don't get it, seriously.
No.7739
incel genocide when?
No.7740
>>7739If incels are genocided, the totality of anonyomous imageboards will disappear, leaving the world with fbi.gov and fulfilling the corporate victory on the Worldwide Web.
Also, they're a necessary evil for acceleration purposes.
No.7742
>>7739If all incels died then the capitalist system will triumph. Instead we must strive to push the capitalist contradiction as hard as possible, so that more and more people will be proletarianize, incelized and gender disphoricized.
No.7745
>>7714why is she talking like she's in a prager u video
No.7746
>>7745Because she's american.
No.7747
>>7743I haven’t even posted in this thread yet. Just imagine the power we could harness if we all posted about how we die alone. Together.
No.7748
>>7736Incidentally, I recently watched La Chinoise, I can tell you it's probably not that unless you are in some deranged micro-"party"
>>7742Now you are speaking my language
Remember the three stages of theory advancement
Histomat - Diamat - Kelomat
No.7749
>>7739Very soon hopefully.
No.7750
>>7733I'm not even at rock bottom. This is the best I've ever been compared to a few years ago and I still really really want to die.
>>7737I don't understand it either but I don't think it's all about having a girlfriend. I'm just a very broken and dysfunctional person and the fact people don't want to be around me is just the main symptom of that.
No.7751
>>7750What is a nature of your dysfunction? Are you ugly, depressed, autistic…?
No.7752
>>7751It doesn't matter. You just have to believe me when I say there's no hope.
No.7753
>>7752Im gonna interpret that as disfigured or disabled.
No.7754
>>7753No, neither. At least if I was I would have an excuse.
No.7755
>>7754So there still is a hope, right? Like I get it, I am also at the point where statistically I am more likely to die a virgin than not, but its not a done deal either. If your issue is circumstantial or psychological, there always is a realistic possibility of improvement.
No.7756
>>7755I just don't want to be alive anymore man. It's all so tiring and pointless. There's no benefits to be alive over being dead.
No.7757
>>7756Idk what to tell you. Thing that helps me is a.) sticking to productive schedule (working out, eating healthy, getting enough sleep, doing schoolwork, reading books); and b.) seeking new experiences. Clique as it is, traveling and meeting new people helps greatly. I am still a depressed piece of shit, but after spending last year in foreign countries I can clearly see improvement in a way I function and relate to people. We are product of our environment, if everything around you stays the same so will you. So yeah, if there are any events around where you live, attend a music festival, move to a big city, go to a bar and drunkenly hit on women, whatever just as long as you are doing something new.
No.7758
>>7757I can't do that stuff. My existence doesn't permit it.
No.7759
>>7758Please be a little less vague.
No.7760
>>7759I'm wasting your time. Please don't bother replying to me anymore. Sorry for being weird.
No.7761
>>7760You are not, I am just interested to know what exactly is it that precludes you from connecting with people.
No.7762
>>7761I really don't know but the only comforting thought I can think of is being dead.
No.7765
>>7634I am not a femcel I am just trying to be happy alone these days. I know I will probably die a childless virgin because I am unfortunately not a soulless bitch so I am devoting my life to the Cause (socialism) and my other interests at this point. It's not so bad, it gets lonely sometimes but I have a lot of close friends and a reasonable social life which has been marred only by poverty. I don't have resentment for attractive fellow women like incels have for chad. I don't resent attractive men either, well sometimes I dislike how manipulative they can be where they try to get people to sleep with them under false pretenses, but most of them are okay. These are the reasons why I believe I am not a femcel.
>>7641>>7642Why would you let them do this to you? I'd rather come away with my dignity and my soul intact than become a pathetic game-player. The incels are right, sex-havers are truly evil
>>7717Anon my only advice is to find endless distraction. I don't think about my high school and college experience, so it doesn't bother me much that nobody has ever been interested in dating me throughout pretty much every stage of my life. I treat my close friends well and I plan on euthanasia in my 60s or earlier when my health breaks down and I have no children who can take care of me. Sometimes we just have to accept being culled from the herd, I have autism that will likely get passed down, perhaps it is the same for you. I will say that in my area I have seen only couples where the woman was much better looking, and I have never met another man here who was also a virgin at my age. So if you have money you should look into moving to an area where women are very desperate and you should be able to find somebody with relative easy. I might have done the same if I had money and if I wasn't so jaded. If you are in the U.S. there are many eager filipino women you could import, by the way. Remove yourself from the company of sex-havers and relationship-havers, they have no idea how badly talking about their success hurts us. Overall I found that getting a dog, making friends, and taking certain prescribed medications made me stop trying to kill myself over severe deficits in my romantic life
No.7766
>>7765>nobody has ever been interested in dating me throughout pretty much every stage of my life>>7765>nobody has ever been interested in dating me throughout pretty much every stage of my lifeYour post makes me sad anonette. Have you tried being proactive? Nobody asked me out either. But I'm not going to kill myself over it. You seem like more of a doomed than male incels. I'm not gonna say 'be my gf" cuz that's creepy but seriously have confidence in yourself. I'm sure you'd make a nice gf someone would love and appreciate. But it might take time
No.7767
>>7765>I am devoting my life to the Cause (socialism) and my other interests at this point. It's not so bad, it gets lonely sometimes but I have a lot of close friends and a reasonable social life which has been marred only by povertySo basically, my life.
No.7769
Game playing is stupid. Yeah it works, on retards, just like all lies. I guess if you want to surround yourself with idiots lying is a great way to go.
No.7770
>>7769And speaking for myself. I've been duped and emotionally manipulated before. But I'll tell you the second I catch one of those it's over. I'll never trust you or want to interact with you again.
No.7772
>>7633>but secretly most of them like it and won't talk to you if you've got a healthy way of communicating your interest. <5% of the men I've ever talked to are not interested in such games.lol I think people tend to fall into the same relationship patterns, and it seems like a thing that is totally external to them, but in reality it isnt, and this totally smells like one of those circumstances.
No.7773
>>7769For normies playing games isnt lying though. They are following dating script they have been socialized into. It is lying for maladjusted autists like us, making a fake persona to try to trick a woman into sleeping with you, because you know the "real" you is utterly unfuckable.
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