New thread cuz old one is full. Idk what to write here so let me do a short blogpost.
>met a girl in class
>asked her if she wants to hang out in the evening
>"Uhm, you know, I got stuff, have to do schoolwork, there is a lot of it…"
Like this is the gentlest way to be shot down possible, but still makes me feel like shit. Another data point towards my undesirability. Fuck, why did I thought I even had a chance, she is so out of my league its not even funny.
>>7173Wouldn't work.
Socialist girls are chad only. Most socialist men aren't chad.
>>7172Well thats mean.
>>7169Look, we can either have a single general, or a dozen threads dealing with the same topic, pick your poison.
>>7175Not ugly. Also, I am fine with just hanging out completely platonically, its just I seem to be undesirable for that one also.
>>7168>"Uhm, you know, I got stuff, have to do schoolwork, there is a lot of it…"<Oh do you want to study together sometime?Christ OP, you just going to give up like that?
This is the problem with this attitude. Some people are genuinely busy or have a lot going on so they're no necessarily in the mood, so you gotta try harder
Also don't listen to incels when it comes to dating and relationships
>>7184Man, learn to read subtext.
>>7182My feeling towards women is little bit of resentment and great deal on envy. No anger though.
>>7186>Girl<I'm busy tonight>You<That's it this will never go anywhere why even tryI'm telling you to stop being weak and try harder.
I've slept with women that weren't immediately into me. I've convinced dudes to cheat on their GFs with me. (And women on their husbands/boyfriends)
This is a recurring pattern with incels. You give up to soon. And the slightest pushback sends you spiraling into depression
>>7193I guess is conclusion about himself could be incorrect. But he's right about her not being interested.
>>7194She already made herself clear. Anything other than an obvious yes is no. Unless you want to risk being seen as a creep at best or be charged with sexual harrassment.
>>7194This is not how you do it, you should probe first, about her time, when her free days are, and what she is going to do on them, what she likes to do in her free time, etc, just make conversation about it, what she says she has a free day you go for it and ask, she will say yes, in which case you are in, and if she says no, then she will probably make something up, in which case, you will know for sure it is an excuse, in which case you retreat and asses, if this is really someone you have a non negative chance with, and if yes then try to go back to flirting, etc. and if no, just move on, be realistic, not over pessimistic.
If on the other hand, she never has time, she might just be very busy, or she might see the invitation coming and be shutting you down, in both cases retreat, and flirt, see if she ever responds to flirting, and try to make a move later
>>7195>Unless you want to risk being seen as a creep at best or be charged with sexual harrassment.Part of being successful with women/dudes is not caring about this
>Anything other than an obvious yes is noIt doesn't work like that. Sometimes you gotta do more to win them over
>>7196>just make conversation about itI felt this was already implied
>>7198They never left. It's just less obvious nowadays because outright misogyny and /pol/ shit will have you gulaged
>>7197Date adults for once, you'll realise that not everybody has the disposition to say yes 24/7, even if they like you. they might need some time to get to know you better, or not be in the mood.
Also literally every romantic advance will seem creepy to the wrong person, if you go in with the mentality of "i don't want to seem creepy" then you'll never make a move. Just make sure to never break consent, and don't bother people who don't want to be bothered and sto giving a shit about what people think.
>>7200was it though? some people have never dated anon, they need things spelled out for them
>>7206Not really. You got the internet, what kinda friends you want to make? IRL friends. I guess making a random friend with a person with no particular common interests is harder than having some common interest. I guess you would have to imagine why you are trying to make friends with this person? Because they are you neighbor? Because they are a coworker?
I dunno, these are not problems I have. People just like me.
>>7211Ok I love you all. God bless. Keep the faith. I don't know what to say.
This universe wasn't made to torture us. That's my original message.
>get some female friends Utterly pointless nowadays, outside professional and workplace friendships.
>>7182I've stopped resenting women a while ago because I got to the conclusion all this shit is generational, if you're a zoomer or even a millennial like me you're prone to be completely ignored or even silently despised if they feel you're trying.
>>7201Modern society juruuns masculinty with the endless checklist of Herculean chores to achieve.
Men are never really allowed to be themsleves. Theyre always told that theyre fucking up somewhere. Espexially when it comes to heterosexual romance.
>>7224Right so telling crystal cafe about this board was a
HUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEEEEE fucking mistake and is destroying my self worth.
I mean, are we seriously at the point where a sub 6 man asking out a woman makes her so upset that she considers paying ten fucking grand for plastic surgery to try and attract chad? If this is where the human race is at we deserve mass alienation and rising suicide rates tbh.
>>7227Good point Shay. I guess we are living in the final days of a decaying society, but we just have to hope that what comes out of it will be better.
>>7228Sociopaths. The lot of them.
>>7226? Didn't find leftypol through crystal cafe I don't even know what the fuck that is, I've been here sporadically since literally 8chan/xyz split, I just don't include in my posts "hey guys I am a woman here to talk about politics teehee"
That's so nice, so you're saying you would date a woman who was uglier/fatter than you? I wouldn't, but great for you anon
>>7228I've never had sex but that's actually another problem because the non-ugly men I do attract are completely run through
>>7230>That's so nice, so you're saying you would date a woman who was uglier/fatter than you?In a heartbeat, because I'm not some spooked retard and I actually value personality over some gay beauty standards. You should try not being such a bitch anon, then maybe chad would like you.
>>7231>so you are just picky like typical incelsMost incels are more than happy to settle for their looksmatch. The issue is that their looksmatch won't settle for them and is too interested in chasing after chad. Prime example right here.
Not sex/not romantic relationship-related, but still a social question. An employee at a convenience store I visit weekly (and would like to work at someday, just because it's the same shit and same pay as my current job but the transit's shorter) wants to hang out with me and I've been delaying giving him an answer. He's a guy, I'm a dyke, but he doesn't know I'm gay yet. I really just want to be alone and focus on my personal studies, but he seems nice and maybe I ought to be more sociable, although I'm not sure what, if anything, we would have in common. I'm eccentric and very guarded IRL. It's not as though this is my only option for social interaction either–I can join a local org if I really want to and this year I might. What I'm trying to say is, should I give him my number or decline the offer, and what should I say in either case?
>>7231>why are you so picky what do you mean you don't want some herpes-infested fuckboy who now wants to settle down?>>7232Sorry about your condition, but I don't think men who aren't fat can be that ugly. When I describe only attracting ugly men I am talking mainly about men who are fat or don't brush their teeth. If you're fat you can just lose the weight and look a lot better
>>7233>In a heartbeat, because I'm not some spooked retard and I actually value personality over some gay beauty standardsJesus christ, can't you just be honest? I don't believe you for a second that you'd date someone you weren't attracted to. What the fuck is even the point of that, you don't want to fuck them so you'll never have sex, it's basically a friendship.
>Most incels are more than happy to settle for their looksmatch. The issue is that their looksmatch won't settle for them and is too interested in chasing after chad. Prime example right here.How do you know I'm your looksmatch lmao, you haven't even seen me? Aren't you the one implying you're ugly? Post pic, I look like the average woman from France
>>7234Having friends/social support network is good, even if you're not banging them
>>7235What about just having fun? You don't need to settle down. And sometimes you only find out you really want someone after you become friends/get involved casually
>>7235>I don't believe you for a second that you'd date someone you weren't attracted toIt's possible to be attracted to people who are "uglier" than you. And attraction isn't just about looks.
>How do you know I'm your looksmatch lmao, you haven't even seen me?I didn't say that you are, retard. I was implying that your looksmatch is probably one of those "ugly" guys who you keep turning away. If chad wanted you he would make it clear, get that plastic surgery or settle for less, those are your options. Superficial bitch.
>I look like the average woman from FranceYeah so the key word you should reeeaaaally be focusing on here is "average".
>>7241This
>>7238>BPDI've learned to hard avoid these types. Emotional rollercoaster and you're bound to get ditched for something petty
>>7237I have a lot of body issues + I can't be on hormonal or IUD birth control, so my only option is to be with somebody I trust. Sporadic casual sex is also not going to cut it, I have a consistently high sex drive.
Guys who sleep around are used to condomless sex so they'd not be interested and their lifestyle is very disgusting to me so it's just not an option. Plus men who sleep around are way more likely to cheat so it's a waste to invest time in them. There's truth in the red pill stuff it's just that it's true for both genders.
>>7239>your looksmatch is probably one of those "ugly" guys who you keep turning awayWhy would my looksmatch be fat when I'm not fat and work out a lot? Why would my looksmatch not brush his teeth when I brush my teeth 2x a day? These are the guys I'm attracting. I'm just going to stop responding to you because you're trapped in incel worldview. The funniest thing to me was that I actually used to be friends with incels and many of them weren't even virgins so technically I'm probably more of an "incel" than you
>"average"I'm not attracting average guys though as I said before (of course you can't read when gender is involved due to incel rage), I am attracting total whores or men who don't brush their teeth. The average guy from France is hot to me.
I'll probably get plastic surgery but not because you told me to, you're being very hostile, sexist, and weird here, and making a lot of assumptions. Have a good day!
>>7238I talked briefly to a guy with BPD. Unfortunately would not recommend, you never really know where you stand with them and they usually don't have super stable relationships unless they're in treatment. Same with the bipolars
>>7238For a casual, fun relationship? Absolutely!
To move in together?
Forget about it >>7243You're the one bitching about not being able to get laid and talking about getting plastic surgery to improve your facial features, yet I'M the ideological incel? Seriously?
>I'm not attracting average guys thoughYour perception of what is "average" is most likely skewed while you're overestimating how attractive you are. Either that or you give off a really bad aura that scares away normal men. Which of these seems more likely?
>I'll probably get plastic surgery but not because you told me to, you're being very hostile, sexist, and weird hereIf that's the case then you're being misandrist and objectifying men.
>and making a lot of assumptionsNot even ten minutes ago you assumed I was trying to fuck you lmao.
>>7243>Complaining about attracting fat ugly men>complaining about attracting promiscous menare you the same anon from the other day with the same issues?
In either case, either you are being too repellent when talking to them, or you are just not that attractive or haven't tried enough, do you have autism?
>>7249 (me)
Not that anyone here could have some magical personal insight about this guy, so I'm really asking what would
you think since most of you are men.
>>7254I referred to
>>7235, sorry for the third-world ESL.
>>7242>Emotional rollercoaster and you're bound to get ditched for something pettyExact same thing happened to me twice hahahaha
I'm never giving loonies any other chances, fuck them IDGAF
>>7257>>375268That kind of sucks. I really am a lesbian. I didn't take it into account that anyone reading that post would miss the original where I said that I am (
>>7234 ). I have no idea how clockable I am IRL. Almost not at all, probably–women only hit on me if they know, and only on closer inspection if people cared enough to look for signs would most be able to pick out how I differ from most straight women my age. (Bisexual women too? I don't know.)
>>7258 (me)
I realized I misunderstood the first anon. Two out of three ain't bad so I'll let him know when I get the chance. I didn't tell him outright when he asked me because I've already bluntly told a guy I'm gay when he asked me if I wanted to go to a fireworks show. I could tell it made him feel awkward and he tried to assure me he wasn't asking me on a date so I thought I shouldn't assume things right away or put people on the spot in the future. I still don't know which one's better.
>>7224Don't get plastic surgery.
It could also be because all the decent men are already taken.
>>7238Yes it's real, and yes, it's as bad as some (but probably not all) posters say it is. I know one that I fell out with ages ago; we both have issues, so it was as much my fault as hers, but every once in a while I decide to re-follow her on on social media and see that she is still doing the same stupid impulsive shit she used to do when we were friends, like going to parties and getting shitfaced after she said she was trying to get clean, jumping into relationships with the dodgiest cunts you can imagine and then going on depressive spirals after they fall apart, that sort of thing.
Your mileage may vary of course, but make sure she's actually making an attempt to improve her mental health before you get into anything serious with her.
>It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social existence that determines their consciousness
-Marx
Attractive people's conception of social reality and relationships, both platonic and romantic, is fundamentally not reconcilable with the concept of having knowledgeable empathy for unattractive people, when it comes to giving relationship advice. They are like a bourgeois suggesting a proletarian simply start a business to survive. They do not realize that the things they do to get relationships will not only not work for unattractive people, but in some cases might be counterproductive or even dangerous. But the worst part is, if you call them out on it, they call you bitter and unaccepting of their advice.
After all, they succeeded where you failed, so their advice is correct, right? But this is wrong, because their advice is based on the lifestyle of an attractive person
Attractive people are the bourgeoisie of gender
Always take me a little bit aback when fuckboys/chads give dating advice, and it boils down to "be more repey/creepy, … but while being attractive".
And I am taken even more aback when women validate such advice, either by claiming that men need to prove their masculinity by assertiveness, or saying how being "too easy" would make the woman in question "a slut".
My conclusion is that just like there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, there's no non-sexist courtship under patriarchy.
The entire dating "game" under the patriarchy revolves around the man brutishly coercing the woman into "giving up" access to intimacy.
Now, this coercion could take many forms, from straight up rape to other forms of "soft" power projection, including financial, social, physical, etc. But the undeniable, shared and common framework of these interactions is that the man must be "assertive" and "take" what he wants while the woman must "resist" and inevitably "give up" her sexuality.
In no way am I implying something like "women want to be dominator hurr durr" or anything of the like. What I'm saying is that our entire framework, and social language for establishing sexual relations, is modeled after a dynamic that resembles rape. "Rape" in the sense that the man is supposed to "take" what the woman "doesn't want to give".
In this framework, what is ought to be an equal and egalitarian relationship, ends up reproducing a regressive and barbaric power dynamic of those who "take" sex and those who must "submit / give up" sex
And just like how workers without class consciousness unwittingly reproduce their own exploitation, women under patriarchy also perpetuate this coercive/rapey system, where men who are not rapey enough are seen as meek, or weak, or beta, or "not committed" or whatever, etc. etc.
Well, as an enlightened Incel (who reads theory), just like I don't buy iPhones, or diamonds, or other luxury goods, I won't take "that's just the system we live under lmao" as an excuse.
I refuse to participate in this patriarchal system, where I am expected to assert myself aggressively upon other human beings to "earn" sex.
Fuck that. That shit's gross.
I'd rather stay a virgin.
>>7289your right
1930s William z foster's birth strike
2023 time for a relationship strike.
>>7294Yoiu kinda have to just feel the vibe on that one.
Maybe I'm just projecting, but when someone asks me something, and I answer, that's my final answer. Any further prodding, and I interpret that as you being a cunt, not respecting my wishes, and trying to manipulate/bully me into doing something I don't want to.
I extend this notion of respect to everyone else, including women.
So, to me, if a woman tells you "no", but you keep going, it indicates one of the following:
1. You think the person doesn't know what they want and you must "convince" them that they actually want what you want. Creepy.
2. You don't actually care what the other person wants, and you just want them to go along with your desires due to social pressure. Rapey.
3. You think you're playing this "social game" where the woman has to go "no no" before she goes "yes yes", and it's all this unspoken social dance. Like the girl is "testing you out" for confidence, and you're "testing her out" for purity / chastity or whatever. Well this "dance" is dumb as fuck and grown adults should know better than to play such childish games that should've been left behind in kindergarden.
>>7296If I am unsure, I explicitly say so, and postopne the decision. Same if I'm not feeling it.
I think that people who play games and use ambiguity to hide from decisions are immature cowards.
I do not apply double standards to other genders, so if someone says "no", I would rather assume they meant it, than assume they're being a coward. I think the latter is quite sexist.
"Oh you know how women are so indecisive and unsure of themselves and always playing games, they need a MAN to be assertive and make the final decision". No.
Even if it's functionally true I refuse to act like it is.
>>7298Well, call it whatever, but at the end of the day it's affirming gender hierarchy to get some sex. That's gross.
Trump's comment about grabbing women by the pussy is also "simply the truth", in his socioeconomic circles. That's not a good thing.
>>7289>And just like how workers without class consciousness unwittingly reproduce their own exploitation, women under patriarchy also perpetuate this coercive/rapey system, where men who are not rapey enough are seen as meek, or weak, or beta, or "not committed" or whatever, etc. etc.As someone living in a population center in the third-world, I haven't met a single woman with that mindset. I wholefully agree the absolute majority of women are spooked with the current trends of capitalism, but most-if-not-all of them are already pursuing their self-interest and personal preferences, that also meaning to take a bit more of initiative regarding relationships. The thing with women is, for their part, they have a dislike for verbalization and prefer subtlety and indirect approach.
Very insightful post, overall.
>>7224There's the tier of guys you can get by being retarded and "giving signs" to guys you want and the tier of guys you could get by actually trying.
Also remember, trying also includes sometimes failing. Welcome to being a man.
>>7299Your mistake is assuming that being passive makes you "on top in a hierarchy." Being able to stay at home and do like an hour of chores a day and spend the rest of the time NEETing it up is an excellent gig. Women are power bottoms.
Women being passive is so they get to avoid the pains of rejection and feeling undesired. The optimal scenario for a woman is to have a number of suitors who she strings along until the right one proves his worthiness of her.
Might as well say job applicants are on top in the hierarchy because they have to appear strong and confidant to their potential employer.
>>7224Listen to
>>7302Stop relying on "attracting" men lol.
If you see a man you find attractive, you make a move. The only men who are moving on women these days are the ones who don't care about boundaries or consent. MeToo has (not without reason) hammered it into the rest of us that women don't like being approached most of the time, so the only men who are still doing that are the ones who don't give a shit. These same men will be "ugly" because they also don't bother with stuff like hygiene and grooming.
>>7289This is accurate and most people are pretty self-aware of it. See the standard key vs lock metaphor. It's not just some unconscious bias, it's consciously believed in as the "nature" of men and women and is ideologically reproduced using that justification.
>>7220I have plenty friends.
"Just make friends" doesn't work when all the friends you manage to make are also fucking losers and nobody invites over seperate friend groups.
>>7224Lower your standards, become more proactive, or become incel.
>I am not fat and have no facial deformatiesWow, good on you for clearing the lowest bar for superfacial attractiveness.
>>7243>I am not ugly>I do have a lot of body issues (which are probably clearly visible or express themselves in my general health)
>I dont want ugly men that are interested in me, i want studs>All the studs sleep around too muchTypical incel.
>guys who sleep around are used to condomless sexYeah no not really. Its all in your head.
Science has litterally proven that people who are in relationships with people "uglier" than them are happier because they worry less about being cheated on. Given your hyperinsecurity, maybe choose to forego on the "i dont date uggos (probably just avarage guys)" rather than "i dont date studs". Its might be better for you. Getting someone to brush their teeth more is like a 1 week investment, if thats the only thing turning you off from a guy.
>>7225If this is actually real it might be the first helpfull thing anyone has ever given to me on this topic.
All the advise of "just get hobbies", "just bee urself" and "go out there" didnt do shit
>>7314It's entirely transactional now. However, when boomers , especially people older than boomers were becoming adults women basically
had to find a man because they were denied work that could pay for a support a home, also the other societal pressures to get married. Nowadays most of that is gone, while the wages of the proletariat has stagnated and effectively been reduced for milennials and gen z, of course less people are going to get married, of course relationships are just about income and men are judged entirely on income, whiteness (social status)
>>7289Damn bro, I hope she sees that post.
You really are not like the other guys, you know,
the ones that get to fuck her. But hey, you keep your enlightened humblemaxxing, eventually someone will take pity on you or you'll come across someone attracted to the social capital that is represented by your particular kind of rationalization for missing out. Perhaps you don't realize it but you are making of your loneliness the same gimmick of personality that some others may do with clothing, demeanor or assertiveness. That's a nasty self reinforcing loop of victimhood you are walking yourself into. You are predicating your tolerance on reality on rationalizing your external circumstances as internal decisions, but the outside may sometimes fuck you up in way you cannot re-frame as your own choice.
Fair warning though, the more you miss out on, the more dependent you will grow on maintaining that view which rationalizes your status as a virtue, and the larger the burden upon it. So make sure it doesn't crash on you when you hit some milestone of loneliness and bygone chances ,because doubt
now is depressing, but doubt then may be
fatal. Whatever comfort that view provides today, is very likely an investment in future anguish.
>>7317just write
SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXX
>>7319Yeah, I’m trying to meet up with him but he’s REALLY busy with school shit. He’s in university and I don’t know his schedule.
Basically, I want to grow closer to him but I don’t know how.
>>7320>>7317If he's so invested in uni, I would advise you to not waste time circling around, just tell you're interested in him as romantic partner.
Although would be good, before saying you want to fug, to ask him about his studies, his academic routines, to show a bit of interest in his pursuits of life as way to incentivize his liking for you.
>>7220I've actually made a bunch of friends in the past two years through work.
Problem is they're all losers, even more so than me. We play dnd. It's that bad.
I'm just an undesirable person to have around in any capacity other than as an employee or student. Teachers and managers tend to like me more than any of my actual peers. I don't know what to do. I don't know where to go. I have no interests or passions.
>>7310Yup, I felt the same way.
>>7311>I'd rather develop on my ownThen have fun re-inventing the wheel and taking much longer to overcome your struggles when you do it on your own.
>than think about some freaking manual in my head whenever I'm socializing.You internalize it and do it automatically eventually. I know I write huge texts, but that's just the shit I've learned over the past years. I don't think about any of that nowadays. It's second nature now.
>>7330>everyone makes fun of the concept of a "marketplace of ideas" but when unlikable assholes bring up "sex marketplace value" and "dating markets" we have to take them seriouslyQuickly followed by admonishing the excess men for being lazy unworthy types who do not invest enough in making themselves valuable to their potential partners, sorry the not-market has chosen. Try self help.
Remember boys, there is no such thing as toxic femininity. When in doubt remember the debt you owe for the patriarchy and that the best you can aspire to, is racing to the bottom of self abasement. Anything else is psychopathic PUA manipulative prejudiced unsolidarity
*. Be yourself,sit down, stay in your lane and learn nothing. Or else.
[
*] Do not confuse with female empowerment. Very different when a woman does it.
>>7337Coping is enduring a problem. Problems, when possible, have solutions, and so the coping tends to be temporary.
In this case the problem gets worse with time and missed chances and the coping mechanism is self-reinforcing because it negates the problem, in the sense that the longer you hold the belief and the more the problem grows while you ignore it, the more invested you are in keeping that belief, because revising it means unleashing the ever growing reservoir of regret.
>>7339There is no "problem" though.
If someone decides that dating is not for them, it's not a problem.
Any claim to the contrary is just peer pressure.
>>7340His post strikes me as childish and grasping at straws while seeking validation for his self appointed status as an "incel". Either way his rejection of "this patriarchal system" entirely out of self righteous cope. I wouldn't want to base
any decision on that.
>>7341Sounds like you're just doibg internet-psychoanalysis.
Your post could as easily be directed towards a leftist who says they don't want to work at a bank or as an HR manager, just replace "patriarchy" with capitalism.
Everyone who doesn't go along with social expectations is just coping, right?
>>7340Society wants men to give you their elf worth for women.
Single men are seen s a blight.
Society sees young men especially as inherently defective beings that need to be beaten/condemnd for flaws or nuances.
They're not allowed to want for their own, only for "chaning the world".
Young women on the other hand, are worshipped, ascribed with virtues they themselves lack.
They're told that men should suicide for them.
>>7170It saddens and angers me as a man that we wanna throw away our self value and worth to women.
Why are women always automatically ascribed as virtuous just because of their looks and cutesy demeanor?
Why are men expected to have to prove themselves and appeal to female whim in order to be seen as a person?
Why are men not loved born appreciated for themselves?
Do men have any value outside of pampering women or undergoing massive e projects to appease the elders?
Are men nothing more than metaphysical stunted doubles?
>>7341>accurately pointing out the primal instinctual nature of human sexuality is "chilidish/shallow
<"you're supposed to play the game to.win, anon"This is why mankind keeps delaying their spacefaring communist utopia by centuries.
We keep proclaiming ourselves as above the animals.while using out technologies and literature to appeal to baser instinct of reproduction.
>>7368Actually, I wasn't even trying to imply that it was "instinctual".
I wanted to elaborate more, but felt like the discussion devolved into bad faith argumentation and lost interest.
I think that the current social institution of courtship is a consequence of liberal modernity, and descends from bourgeois courtship rituals.
It is no different in that regard from many other social expectations that the average modern liberalized subject is expected to follow. Like, for example, the atomic family, or property ownership being seen as virtue, the notion of "freedom" being conceptualized exclusively in terms of negative freedoms, etc., etc.
If "our" (modern liberalized subjects) understanding of "freedom" is passed down from what the Enlightenment era bourgeoisie understood by "freedom", then our understanding of male-female sexual dynamics and dating is similarly passed down from that class of people from that era.
We are all larping, and are expected to larp, as 18th century white european small land owning merchants or whatever, despite the fact that our material conditions are completely different. And this, I think, results in various forms of alienation. I don't claim that literally all of our behavior is a social construct, but I bet a lot more of it is, than we think. What we see as "natural" is merely what the ruling ideology sees as "natural". It could, or it could not be.
I mean think about it, this whole framework of the man being the active "initiator" and the woman being a passive "recipient", who, nonetheless, gets to "choose" only makes sense in a particular circumstance where there is no medieval style arranged marriage, but at the same time, women have less social, political end economic agency than men.
In a more or less egalitarian society, I see no material reason for why such an expectation would exist. I'd assume without that superstructure, both people would employ dating strategies according to their personalities and preferences, rather than social expectations put on them. There'd be women who approach and men who receive, and it'd be seen as normal. And even pairs of men and women where both are "active", and neither feels like their masculinity or femininity is being compromised.
Like, we have plenty of men who complain about having to be "alpha" despite it not matching their personality, and plenty of women who complain about being approached and hassled by men unsolicited. (and also women complaining how the man they're interested in is not initiating, but convinced that they shouldn't initiate either)
Is that not an empiric demonstration that such an arrangement is not "natural"? People literally saying how it goes against their nature?
>>7370Addendum: I think the reaction from those who buy into this framework of courtship, and find success in it, when you criticize it, is very similar to how small business owners react to criticisms of capitalism:
"It's just how the world is bro, suck it up and learn to play the game, you're just rationalizing your lack of success"
Am I wrong?
>>7372Its more so that they don't know what they don't know
Which is what its like to be unattractive
>>7384 (me)
But to a man, what are the plans of action that come from such analysis? Sure, there is no ethical courtship under patriarchy as you say, but I don't think a moralistic approach is the correct one as it changes nothing and alienates you further from society.
>>7400Nobody is shaming women for not fucking around, the only time woman is called prude is when she tries to be a fun police and put down others for not conforming to her moral standards.
>>7404I just put "squidward reaction" into search engine.
>>7407Not yet but the clock it ticking and I am panicking.
>>7397>therefore Americans are mostly neo-nazisWell, they are
the point is still largely correct
>>7399Stop feeling bad about it would be the first step.
View it as any other social attribute you're expected to arbitrarily conform to: not an obligation, but a choice.
When you stop thinking about things as obligations, but as choices, it opens up a new "space" where you're allowed to actually reason about them, and express personal agency / decision making.
I'll give a dumb analogy: in my field of work, there is a culture of preferring Apple products to Android or Windows. The cultural image of a worker in this field is associated with using apple products for said work. Now I can technically afford a Macbook or an iPhone, but only technically - it would not be a sound financial decision on my part to buy one.
If I thought about it as an obligation, there'd be only a "binary" space: either I have one and I'm cool, or I don't have one and I'm a loser. And if I didn't want to be a loser, I'd get one as an installment loan, go in debt, and put myself in a bad position. But because it's an obligation, I "have no choice": it's either debt or not being a "fully realized human" (in this social context).
But NOT thinking of it as mandatory opens up for me a space where I can think about the following things:
"Can I afford one?": how much money am I willing to part with, what will be the consequences, etc? Apple products are expensive, and so is dating/marriage. There's people who start families despite not being able to afford it.
"Does having one align with my beliefs/morals?": You might hate the Apple business model, or the exploitation involved in the manufacturing of their products are a no-go for you. You might think that the social expectations put on you as a man/woman are immoral / unethical / sexist, and you don't want to participate. Nothing wrong with that.
"Do I actually need one?" (and under which conditions): Do you want to have it AS A THING IN ITSELF, or only as a social signifier? Maybe you like iOS or whatever. Maybe you need an Apple ecosystem to do your work. Regarding relationships, maybe you really do need intimacy and companionship, on a core psychological level. Or maybe you want something AS a social signifier in the first place, like you see an actual benefit in being socially accepted by your peers, and it's worth it for you. The important part is that it's something you can make decisions about. You can reason about it, express agency, etc. It's not just "either I have it or not". (ok, this could get morally bad when it involves other people, like having trophy wives is pretty bad, and buying blood diamonds for social clout is pretty bad, but same could be said about the lithium mines in iphone production etc., that's a separate discussion).
And so on and so on. The particulars don't really matter, the important part is that if you think about social expectations as imperatives, you don't have much space for agency. If you stop buying into them, there's decisions you can make, and be happy with.
Now here's where it gets metaphysical: if you decide to not succumb to social pressure, the "material" (in a vulgar material sense) outcome is the same: you don't have an iphone/gf, and society looks down on you for it. But the difference is that in one instance it was a failure to comply, but in another, it was a conscious decision, and a successful adherence to your beliefs/values.
Look, just like you can take out a loan to buy an Apple product you can't afford, there's people out there with a "any hole's a goal" mentality, and people who become parents at age 16. And society looks down on them. That should clue you in that it's not REALLY about being sexually active, or romantically successful. It's about adhering to a social standard. The sex part is only incidental.
Well, if society can have standards, so can you. Maybe it's below your standards to be a sex pest in pursuit of pussy. Maybe it's below your standards to seek sexual relations for no other reason than you don't want to be a "virgin".
You can be ok with being sexless just like you can be ok with not having an iphone. OR you can "lower your standards" and do it, but only because you DECIDED to, not because it's expected of you. The important part is that you're living according to YOUR principles, not that of "society".
You get me?
I'm drunk so pardon me if I'm incoherent, I could probably get my point across better if I were sober.
>>7370Ok fair point. But it goes to show that man is still obsessed with procreation.
I was on lolcow and boy, you guys weren't kidding. They're a female version of . And whi3ke there's alot I can sympathise with them for, there's alot that only justifies the male incel rage. It's a toxic feedback loop.
Again, I keep saying it but everyone keeps waving me off: we need to forgo relationships.
Romantic relationships especially should have never been promoted to the middle class.
The liberal ideals of freedom are ironically what causes inequality. It's why academia is in the terrible shape its in.
Same for relationships and enterprises.
I have a strong feeling that people really don't like equality.
The right is at least honest in their disdain of equality, but moderate/centrists are not.
If anything, the only equality people will tolerate is racial equality. Even the right admit that there's "honorary minorities" they'd breed with.
But gender equality?
No one wants it.
Everyone complains about the opposite sex, but no one wants to compromise their selfish impressions of "proper" relationships.
The only winning move is to not play.
People like to laugh at waifu/husbando enthusiasts, but those folk are better off.
Society looks down on single men, yet single men don't have to deal with ungrateful hags and manipulated children.
Society looks down on cat ladies but at least they only have to deal with pets.
Humans are too idealistic/horny/shallow to appreciate singlehood.
Right now, it's not a good time to bring new life into this world.
>>7422I used to feel frustrated with being a virgin in my early to mid 20s, but now in my 20s I don't feel frustrated at all.
That's because I have other things going on in my life that I feel satisfied about.
You know what else is a liberal tendency? To naturalize all humans as fundamentally similar "abstract rational agents" or whatever. Probably an idea descended from the christian "holy spirit".
The idea that there's this abstract, "normal" human against which every particular human exists in relation to. "The liberal subject", if you will.
The liberal conception of why it's ok to be retarded is because "it's ok to be different!".
But what they don't think about is that being retarded is not "different", because there is nothing to be "different" against: there is no shared, central, "normal" human experience against which to compare.
Being retarded is just ok, and there's no such thing as being "normal".
I'm not asking you to accept being retarded in relation to the normal. I'm asking to to be retarded, with no further stipulations. You get me? Think dialectically.
t. retarded
>>7380Forget her.
Just ket her go.
Female youths have the power in sexual market.
Wait another twenty five years and those same girls will coming running to you, granted carrying baggage they want you to throw away for them.
>>7425Exactly, why would you even want to have something with an attractive 20-something while yourself being still young, when you can fuck a decrepit corpse after you acquire erectile disfunction.
>>7424I dont see how redefining conception of normality is relevant to what I said.
>>7427Solution can be individual though. Its not ideal, wont fix problem, but can improve my own chances of making it. Obviously desire is source of all suffering, but I am stuck with it nevertheless. Like I am not writing here to reach some kind of epiphany, I am just looking for practical advice and psychological support.
>>7289You heard wrong. You don't have to be rapey.
, especially not the toxic kind of overbearing. I think most women just want strong/ emotionally intelligent but I also think porn on the internet has made them extremely paranoid/ distrustful. Stop listening to assholes talk. Most women don't want that.
>>7426I have read feminist articles concerning misandry.
Alot of them say misandry doesn't exist and even if did, it shouldn't be considered equal to misogyny.
The same movement calling for gender equality dismisses male woes.
It's one example of the hypocrisy of "equality."
Rightists claim equality is Marxist, therefore satanic because it punishes "talent". Yet, if brown people are excelling more than whites in anything or everything, they cry about "muh replacement".
Schools teach about equality, yet they always tell boys to bend over backwards for girls. Girls are never told to be respectful of boys.
Black Americans love to talk about how they're always underrepresented in pop culture. Yet, if you offer them.anythingotherthan urban/ghetto R&B culture, they feel indignant.
At least that's how I was until the late-2000s.
>>7434>>7428Yes, but women do the same to men in erms of their looks and money and hobbies.
>>7430Singlehood is better for both sexes.
It's just that society sympathizes female singlehood over male singlehood.
Mem are pressured into pursuing relationships to prove their masculinity.
>>7435>At least that's how I was until the late-2000s.Meant to say "that's how *IT* was.
I was an awkward nerdy black kid whom eschewed rap and autistic. That would've gotten me bullied big time if I was dropped in a ghetto black school.
>>7434Men are turned against each other as well. Its not just women. While women are second rated, men aren't given any first rating.
Men are required to be masculine but then are called brutish for being masculine. Men are told to be more like women in terms of self care. Yet, when men start pursuing cosmetic self care and other "girly" hobbies, they're seen as defective.
>>7429At least you cannot get her pregnant. Also, twenty-somethings are VICENARIANS
Vicenary is Latin for "pertaining to a set of twenty".
Again, young women hold all the power in sexual market so securing one is very tricky. At least older women have some life skills and loads of stories to tell. And they understand that all that glitters is not gold.
From personal experience, older women are more hard-working and sympathetic of male woes than younger women.
>>7438People with a victim complex like to take real things and distort them so much to further their victim complex. There is no point in talking to you. Your entire rant is just fueled by being frustrated of not getting laid and the rest is just a delusional self-victimization spree.
>>7434True
>>7440Same could be said for you. Again, alot of the woes women have can also be applicable then, but women always wanna make things into a gender war where it's always men fault for any bit of inconvenience.
And men are at fault for placing too much self worth on their ability to get women.
>>7315The only way to have successful relationships is either start real young, like nine to twelve, or in retirement after sixty.
Trying to secure reltionahips in your twenties, thirties, and forties is disastrous. It's the time when you're supposed to secure financial and industrial stability.
Society makes the mistake of using age numbers as automatic maturity license.
Maturity and wisdom are manual efforts, not something that can be "figured out".
In fact, figuring out life when you get older means you're too late.
There's a reason why we had coming of age ceremonies and apprenticeships at twelve to fourteen.
The only way to solve this crisis is to revive pre-Romanticist approach to relationships.
>>7434While I agree looks are a fucked-up psyop, it has been played down by both sides.
Modern women will choose an 'average' dude with established wealth over a broke chad.
Modern men will choose anyone that won't fuck him over with divorce or plain go insane, over a 10/10 model.
And of course I'm talking about long run prospects, not one night stands.
>>7443Um, that poster didn't say men are scrutinized for thir looks. It's women whom are. And she's right.
However, she failed to understand that men are more or less subject to the same aesthetic laws.
>>7444This.
Romantic love is a scam to control the youth.
>>7449The reality is that the roles are more reversed.
My case is that I have a psychotic although benign womamchild whom expects me to give her a romantic relationship when we clearly met on a hookups website.
>>7448>also for how long on average do his women stay with him?He pumps and dumps them so probably about two fiddy.
>>7447>Nice job reproducing the very toxicity mentioned in this thread.You're welcome bro
>>7449lol. true tho.
>>7439Stop trying to dress up your fetish for a moral stance.
>>7456So much of a stereotypes pertaining to incels mixture of normie projections and plain bullying. So many times I heard incels described as abusers, or women likening them to their shitty ex-boyfriend, when by definition, they can be neither of those things.
>>7461I’m just telling you what’s up. You aren’t gonna get away with likening me to an incel for talking about pussy the same way women talk about dick. It’s a known fact woman gossip about cock too. What do you think “girl talk” is?
Incels shame women for shit like body counts and not holding up to their warped/idealized values (like virginity), while simultaneously feeling entitled to sex from said women. I couldn’t care less about shit like that and am in a solid relationship with a girl I love and respect dearly right now. I don’t feel entitled to a woman’s body. Never have and never will.
>>7465>It's almost like your worth as a sexual man is dependant on how sexually appealing you are and your incel moral faggotry is like silica gel for vaginas. You could just become volcel and nobody would have a problem with you.Yeah I'm sure all the women incels talk to read this thread and your entire post history and also had in depth discussions to detect idealism. Your retroactive explanations for incel failure are all so bs. Yet on a communist site.
Incelism correlates with untreated autism, mental illness, social isolation, lack of socialization, etc. Which are all to some extent products of social conditions. Your shallow takes are old. why bother writing them?
>>7468oops ctrl C + V wrong version of meme going to fast.
But yeah maybe to add clarity.
You're like:
>but I'm supposed to be like X doesn't that make me virtuous? Why don't I get sex because of my virtue?I guess this is why autismos are likely to be incels. They can only understand things on a direct literal level. They can't observe reality as it works and are all about "the letter of the law."
Dejure and defacto incels.
>>7471"Just be confident it works for me"
Keep talking about all the useful advice without quoting it
>>7462I wonder who triggered who.
>>7463>Incels shame women for shit like body counts and not holding up to their warped/idealized values (like virginity)You're conflating things, most incels aren't traditionalists or anything religon related, they just want to have a fling with anyone. The bodycount issue isn't relevant outside people that are proud of it or those who condemn.
>>7477How so? You're flirting with some guy who's into that, you ask him explicitly to fuck your boy pussy.
>>7479LMAO no. What is the crime? Also I was being extra vulgar for dramatic effect.
>>7480Yeah you can't just out of the blue say something like that and expect it to work. But as helping hand and etc. have explained on here, it's your job as the man to sexually escalate the situation. And there is no need to be rapey or beg for it. Just be bold enough to offer the sexual escalation.
Saying something vulgar is no crime. Despite what the incels here believe lol.
>>7481>How so? You're flirting with some guy who's into that, you ask him explicitly to fuck your boy pussy.I am lesbian
>>7481>it's your job as the man to sexually escalate the situationI am not a man
>>7462Yeah it turned into a real trainwreck.
So on a more practical note, what kind of looksmaxxing are you guys doing/recommend on doing? I grew my hair and in recent months acquired lean physique, and for a first time in my life I started actually liking my own body. Also got into retinol, its not a miracle potion some people make it out to be, but it seemed to lead to a mild improvement in facial texture. Kind of makes it more depressing that I am unable to pull anything even when now I "objectively" look better than most of my peers, but still, its nice to fit into your own self-image of what you should look like.
>>7488I never used one, dont know how, dont care to, and I like posting images on imageboards. Adds to the atmosphere of a place.
Well anyway, this is my last Squidwardpost, good night.
>>7492You so horny, tryin' to find you a bitch mayne
I'm hustlin', I gotta stay rich mayne
You friendly, like to buy hoes gifts
But I'm mean, I hit 'em with the closed fist
You a sucka, take a bitch on a trip
I kick back, and send a bitch to go get my stack
And you'll never do that
You're weak for a bitch, you better move back
Why they always use you?
Cause you pay 'em, that's what they used to
Man bitches everywhere
Treat uyghas like you like teddy bears
You'll get to feel on her and touch her
You always with her but you still ain't fucked her
You fell in love with the bitch last summer
I fucked a few times then dumped her
You tricks, always tryin' to find you a better hoe
I told you, never put the pussy on a pedestal
Them nasty little cum freaks, F 'em
If they wasn't bout the money I left 'em
Burn rubber, I'm drivin' fast
That's my new motto 'cause it's time to smash
I flew past still givin' it gas
Made a right turn, swingin' the ass
I'm shittin' on 'em
>>7495Not the squidward guy, the dominant and vulgar uygha here
>>7492.
Giving bad advice, or even advice that could land you in jail should be a bannable offense imho.
>>7515i'm pretty comfortable with my gender identity but i'm unable to browse /tttt/ without feeling some sort of uncomfortable feeling / mild dysphoria so maybe i'm not lol. it had been a while since i was last on there but yikes some of those people are well on the way to killing themselves. not me though !!
yet lmao
>>7524idk /tttt/ is a super interesting phenomenon for me and i genuinely am hoping in a few years that there'll be academic research on it because like jesus christ being on there for even 10 minutes kinda just fills me with a horrible dread
maybe just me though lol idk
>>7514While I am very much horny, I also suffer from falling on the feminine side socially. Soft spoken, conflict-avoidant, anxious, submissive, desiring to be pursued rather than pursuer. The last one in particular is heavily burdening my mind, makes me relate to lot of stuff over at /tttt/ despite being cis. Like I dont want to be physically a woman, I just want to be different kind of man, to be pretty, and being treated as such, rather than being stuck in my current body.
>>7548Shizo/samefag/troll has been purged
>>7514>I would never hold hands with or kiss a stranger let alone have sex. I want a relationship. How do you expect that to work? How are you going to comfortable having a relationship if you're not comfortable with low level intimacy?
Strangers can turn into SOs, but you need time to build a relationship. If you shy away from the initial steps it'll never go anywhere
>>7535Nope, that's being a weakling, sorry.
Unless you are really rich, you will have to deal with conflict in your life.
>>7552I meant it more like lacking assertiveness. There just arent many things I would care about enough to fight people over.
>>7550Gay guys and trans women certainly have their share of struggles, but not being able to fuck is rarely one of them.
>>7549I think one of the problems with heterosexual dating is caused by women holding this kind of attitude. I heard so many women complain guys just want to fuck them rather than genuinely appreciate their personality, but they are talking about randos they just met or matched on apps. You dont know each other, there is nothing for them to be attracted to other than your looks.
>>7557How do you know for sure? Sometimes it isn't obvious, or they might not, but all it takes to change that is to make your move
You gotta be more assertive instead of just waiting for something to happen
No one said it has to be about romantic relationships, I (and the other person too tbh, albeit to a lesser degree as they do have IRL friends) am pretty shitty when it comes to social skills and interactions, even on the internet. For more context, me and her are depressed fuckos, it's something I've realized and have been coping with for a long time, she not so much.
I recently got a new PC, which is pretty good and I am very excited about, my old PC was utterly trash, would freeze constantly and couldn't run many programs at all, it'd even struggle with Twine or Qbittorrent being open for a long enough time would bring it to a halt, swap was constantly filled in at least 50%, PC couldn't handle 1080p videos and the temperature of CPU was constantly at 60ºC and trying to game would make it heat up even more, not so bad tho, max it ever hit was 71ºC. The really annoying thing about it was how loud it was, could hear it s fans from the other side of the house when it was turned on.
One day before it arrived, I was excited and telling her about how big of an improvement a new PC would be for me, she said "at least one of us is having a good day" and we went on to talk about her family drama and does, which made me feel guilty about something good happening to me.
On the day it arrived I didn't talk to her for most of the time as I spent the whole day building it (first time doing it) and troubleshooting the issues, also going out to buy stuff I forgot: A converter cable for HDMI and thermal paste. Once it was done, really late at night, I tested youtube videos and amazingly, now I can watch in 1080P without the video shitting itself, temperature is constantly at 40C, haven't used a single % of swap so far and can leave stuff open all I want. Great success, I can even compile stuff now and it won't take the whole day (along with not being able to use the PC while stuff compiles). Even discovered that Brigador is actually a fast-paced game, I thought it was slow-paced but it was just low fps lmao.
Done the tests, I went to talk to her excited about it, and she wanted to compare specs of my PC with hers, once done, she started talking about how much better it is than hers, and I disagreed, our CPUs are almost the same, I have more ram, but she actually got a pretty good GPU while I only have integrated graphics, it's fine for me as most games I play are lightweight and run much better now, and while I know depressed fuckheads can't help but be pessimistic, it annoyed me that she jumped straight up to comparison to tell me about how bad her PC is, and the guilt started to crept into me once again. Then we went on to talk about her family drama and woes.
Next day I didn't wanna talk to her about the PC at all, as all it did was reinforce my guilty feelings (which were pretty high anyway because I got another friend that have a PC almost as shit as mine was), eventually she brought it up, to which I said the new PC is working fine, she asked if my lack of enthusiasm is because the PC isn't a good as I thought it would be, and I answered it is, she asked why I'm not excited about it then, and my answer was that I'm now more concerned about using it than talking about it.
I now feel guilty about not saying more, the fourth paragraph in here is easily something I could have said when she prompted me, and I do want to express it when I have good feelings and I'm happy, but my fear of guilt made me shut it down albeit I also do feel it was justified. So yeah, this is my humblebrag about my new PC and also a request advice on how to be less damaged when talking to people, what I did wrong and how to do better.
>>7560It sounds like she’s basically emotionally Pavlov’ing you into not talking about positive things in your life and using you purely as an ear to vent her woes. This isn’t a bad thing and I think people who call ‘trauma dumping’ are silly. But the fact is that you are now avoiding her because she turns every good or fun or interesting thing into how much her life sucks. It’s the opposite of story one-ups-manship. It’s not building community and it’s not strengthening a bond. It’s just her screaming into the void, and you were the ear to listen. I realize that the true facts of the situation may be different from her perspective. I realize that y’all may just be young and completely incompetent at expressing yourselves in an articulate way.
The advice is to say ‘hey I finally found something to distract myself temporarily from the horrors and pains of the human condition and every time I try to share it with you I feel guilt because you bring up how bad your computer and family life are instead of asking if I want to test it out with some counter strike go.” She probably doesn’t even realize what she’s doing and you have to be the smart one to look at the situation outside of yourself. What would you suggest you do? I suggest you be the grown up and share your feelings.
>>7562It's funny how whiny they get when they are asked to integrate once (or perceive to be """the other"""). I have some good friends that are straight lol
but like what sort of behavior is this?
>>7569>>7570wut
Look, I have nothing against straights but why they have to be everywhere. I am just trying to watch a cereal commercial. Straight people everywhere.
>>7566Who said we can't? The problem is these kinds of threads devolve into incel threads.
>>7567Okay bigot
>>7577The straights will be hanged if they make another thread like this.
QUEER POWER
>>7581seems like some false flag shit. fuck you anon. straights will not be "hanged" retard why would you be so violent and anti-social?
re-education camp for you
I think my problems with relationships don't reflect those of the people here, maybe it's because of my culture, I don't know enough about America.
Most of my issues relate to women objectifying themselves in relationship, and not just in the sense of making themselves the object of sexual desire, but literally making every single aspect of a relationship an exchange, where they are the object, and men have to be the subjects. It goes from simple shit, like men having to plan dates, having to pay, having to be entretainers, while women are the object of the date, being submited to the man's plans or schemes and semi-silently judging. It goes deeper, men have to make the moves at every step, it's a man's job to grab your hand, to kiss you, to fuck you. I've often kissed women who were into it, who so far seemed to have given no active signs beyond being entretained by my dates, and having good conversations, becaue the mere fact of having to show interest in an active way is socially inaceptable, it's all just ways of picking up underlying signs that she is enjoying herself and simply trying not to show. After a relationship starts it does get a little bit better, but the dynamic continues, as soon as you ask them to start pulling their own weight, to be more active, to pull their own weight, they get bored, they are there to be the objects, anybody else has this problem?
>>7596>Undersocialization may be the reason, yes, but not necessarily. It can also be the result of trauma, being on the spectrum, having crippled self-esteem. Clearly, this matter is very difficult for some guys. If you think this is easy it means you can‘t put yourself in their shoes which confirms what I said that people like you aren’t qualified to help such people.it's so surprising to see the individualist attitude in this thread on a communist site. it should be clear to anyone thinking about things from a broader lens that many factors can result in a person becoming an "incel" ranging from years of bad luck, low effort, poor social development in childhood, developmental disorders like autism, anxiety disorders like social phobia, simply not fitting in with gender norms (since they are social constructs), living somewhere with a skewed male-female gender ratio, etc.
And yet we see posters saying
>You aren't trying>You're a pussy>Call women a cunt and ask them to suck your dick until one of them agrees>You didn't follow my 1 simple tip "be aggressive"etc.
As if this shit tier advice that offers no practical actions is worth typing. But people who are successful at relationships might become deluded enough to believe these things, since they grew up in that same framework of individualism being the dominant mode of understanding relationships, and therefore attribute to themselves and their specific actions a degree of legitimacy and competence that is unfounded and in some of those cases even toxic
>>7598>But you abnormals are the individualists. Everyone else is doing one thing and you just want to circlejerk and rationalize about how doing the wrong thing is right because x, y, z.No, not everyone else is doing one thing. You don't speak for all people. You think there is one single universal method used by all people, even all cishet people, that is needed to work? Sorry, but you don't have a monopoly on relationships and relationship advice.
>>377770I'm not seeing any approach from you, this is an anonymous board. No idea who you are.
>>7597>it's so surprising to see the individualist attitudeWell, believe it or not bitch but I can‘t snap my finger and change the fabric of society, nor does philosophizing about society’s condition help these people in this moment, which is why I am taking a therapeutic approach. That shouldn‘t be rocket science.
>And yet we see posters saying>>You aren't trying>>You're a pussy>>Call women a cunt and ask them to suck your dick until one of them agrees>>You didn't follow my 1 simple tip "be aggressive"Could you come up with a more delusional strawman, lmao.
>>7590>I think my problems with relationships don't reflect those of the people hereNo, what you described absolutely relates to people here. The cause for male sexlessness is in general not insufficient physical attractivness, but unability to act out heterosexual dating script.
>>7593>A woman that is capable and not a simple, passive object of desire is not desirableThis is literally female version of "women only go for bad boys". Basically every single piece of romantic media made by women for women features a small timid heroine being soft-dommed by a powerful (both physically and socially) man.
On the topic of advice, I am currently reading Ethical Slut, and the part on flirting opens with
>Everybody is born knowing how to flirt, and if you doubt it, watch the way a babyor toddler interacts with nearby adults: lots of eye contact, smiles, maybe a chortle
of welcome, and the offer of a beloved toy (which must, according to the rules, be
handed back after due admiration, just like adult toys).
So yeah, anon in the last thread put it the best, normie advice on how to solve your problems presumes you dont have a problem in the first place.
>>7608Ah,
a guy. A moment ago you were talking about poster
s. And why are you focusing on an exception? What does that prove about the norm?
>>7634>>7636You people frame yourselves as being progressive and anti-patriarchal but reading the previous posts it's obvious you guys are just coping incels and that what you are advocating for just stems from having failed to approach women so you demonize what you can't do. It's a self-righteous cope. Point in case, if you actually cared about women, then why are you attacking a woman
>>7633 who is voicing her genuine grievances? Even if you disagree with her, why is your response to insult or gaslight her?
She's right. Most men don't value women who make it too easy and treat them worse. So women have to play hard to get under these circumstances to avoid that. I'm sure you guys will respond with that you are not like that. The problem is that you losers don't have experience so you don't know how you would respond. Plus, you guys are bottom of the barrel and desperate to get anything you can. Of course guys like you will advocate for women to be more forward and to make it easy, while not considering the downside for women.
>>7643>>7639>>7645I think you're projecting your personal experiences and seething all the while, because you're a social introvert like 99% of people itt but is hiding behind the gendered postures.
>>7646It's a thing of western societies with a modicum of traditionalism.
>>7643Right, but isnt your dating strategy then optimalised towards *not* turning off that kind of sexist men? Its not like those attitudes towards women disappear when he is the one doing the approaching.
And just looking at it statistically, if you passively wait for men to hit on you, you are going to disproportionally get men who hit on everyone, and are more likely to pump and dump. Like I am not blaming you for not making the first move, its fucking sucks, I wouldnt do it either if I didnt have to, but pretending taking initiative somehow ruins your chances of finding desirable partner is a cope. The more effort you put in, the better results you are gonna get.
>>7657"Material base" here is literally just women being less horny.
Also
>high mating value >>7657>And having a sexist boyfriend with a high mating value is preferable to having an incel boyfriend of a low mating value who pretends to be progressive (as a cope).Lol
Lmao even
>>7657Tl;dr you acknowledge his point but say you're comfortable with things as they are because you know it will be of more advantage than if actively trying to change.
It's
definitely another day of femcel subscribing to the current system.
>>7673>Your Nice Guy complaint that women should choose to not date assholes to change the dating dynamic is idealist, individualist and moralistic. You are like a liberal who advocates to buy metal straws to save the turtles. Kill yourself.Nobody is telling women not to date assholes for some social change purposes. They literally just said, if you don't like assholes don't date them, and here are some ways to avoid them
If you want to date them have at it
>>7681Yeah that's a good point
>I don't like it when I have to do play games when dating>I am also the most attracted to men who play games with meI pray to Allah every day that he keeps me far away from women like this, even being the "high value partner"
>>7688This dude is apparently independent of the material environment he is in and just thinks up the good moral ideas that define who he is. Hmm, very interesting.
In all seriousness, you're grasping at straws trying to put everyone on the same pragmatical-hypocrite pattern you subscribe to.
You don't want actual socialism nor an end to patriarchy, you just want dudes you think are up to your standards to stop ignoring you.
>>7672At first I was going to disagree with this. But then I realized I have the same attitude and have rejected women for being
too into me.
After doing some self
crit reflection I think this boils down to there being safety in being the pursuer. I decide the pace, when to escalate, I'm in control. And when I stop caring I don't have to worry about woman demanding my attention.
I've rejected guys too for this reason.This isn't men wanting women to play games, but men wanting to be in control of the relationship
>but secretly most of them like it and won't talk to you if you've got a healthy way of communicating your interest.In general I find a lot of guys have trouble listening to what a woman wants or being interested in what she has to say. And many women being afraid to communicate out of fear they'll be rejected. Sad shit tbh
>>7698Dunno, I often have to deal with younger people and the prospect is far from good. It's of no surprise so much of corporate culture has been bled into the minds of boys and girls hitting 20.
>>7699Because I'm a millennial.
>>7171>without the bloody murder at the endpackage deal
Do you want a revolution without revolution, citoyen?
>>7676This is absolutely the dumbest shit ever
but at least it is something new. Like I almost enjoy the pain of cringe.
>>7711It was basically a female redpill community. It was supposed to give women advice on how to "level up", avoid "low value" and attract "high value" men. Mixture of girlbossing and tradwifeing, yaaas slay queen aesthetics, radfem (read: TERF) leaning. Disproportionate ethnic (read: non-white) following. FDS itself is basically dead now, but that kind dating strategy/worldview is still popular.
>>7713I know, but no woman would openly say they like sexist men, even if in reality they find some aspects of it appealing.
>>7704>>7697As usual, millennials cannot stop with the generational labelling. They nitpick their juniors so much that they invent fantastical folklore about them.
Never mind the fact they do the same thing.
>>7561>I realize that y’all may just be young and completely incompetent at expressing yourselves in an articulate way. Youth is not inherent diagnosis for personal flaws.
>>7532Soft spoken amd imtroversion arent feminine.
Youre just not fitting into the flagship male stereotype. I also understand ypur plight, but unless youre bishonen handsome, its not gonna work. Youre just gonna attract men instead, not that its a bad thing.
>>7700From what I see, its usually women whom reject men whom are obviously eager for them.
Or, they string them along as an orbiter.
>>7720Just read uygha.
>>7721Fuck off, femcel.
>>7730Ok I will sorry.
>>7731I don't think so.
>>7739If incels are genocided, the totality of anonyomous imageboards will disappear, leaving the world with fbi.gov and fulfilling the corporate victory on the Worldwide Web.
Also, they're a necessary evil for acceleration purposes.
>>7736Incidentally, I recently watched La Chinoise, I can tell you it's probably not that unless you are in some deranged micro-"party"
>>7742Now you are speaking my language
Remember the three stages of theory advancement
Histomat - Diamat - Kelomat
>>7733I'm not even at rock bottom. This is the best I've ever been compared to a few years ago and I still really really want to die.
>>7737I don't understand it either but I don't think it's all about having a girlfriend. I'm just a very broken and dysfunctional person and the fact people don't want to be around me is just the main symptom of that.
>>7756Idk what to tell you. Thing that helps me is a.) sticking to productive schedule (working out, eating healthy, getting enough sleep, doing schoolwork, reading books); and b.) seeking new experiences. Clique as it is, traveling and meeting new people helps greatly. I am still a depressed piece of shit, but after spending last year in foreign countries I can clearly see improvement in a way I function and relate to people. We are product of our environment, if everything around you stays the same so will you. So yeah, if there are any events around where you live, attend a music festival, move to a big city, go to a bar and drunkenly hit on women, whatever just as long as you are doing something new.
>>7634I am not a femcel I am just trying to be happy alone these days. I know I will probably die a childless virgin because I am unfortunately not a soulless bitch so I am devoting my life to the Cause (socialism) and my other interests at this point. It's not so bad, it gets lonely sometimes but I have a lot of close friends and a reasonable social life which has been marred only by poverty. I don't have resentment for attractive fellow women like incels have for chad. I don't resent attractive men either, well sometimes I dislike how manipulative they can be where they try to get people to sleep with them under false pretenses, but most of them are okay. These are the reasons why I believe I am not a femcel.
>>7641>>7642Why would you let them do this to you? I'd rather come away with my dignity and my soul intact than become a pathetic game-player. The incels are right, sex-havers are truly evil
>>7717Anon my only advice is to find endless distraction. I don't think about my high school and college experience, so it doesn't bother me much that nobody has ever been interested in dating me throughout pretty much every stage of my life. I treat my close friends well and I plan on euthanasia in my 60s or earlier when my health breaks down and I have no children who can take care of me. Sometimes we just have to accept being culled from the herd, I have autism that will likely get passed down, perhaps it is the same for you. I will say that in my area I have seen only couples where the woman was much better looking, and I have never met another man here who was also a virgin at my age. So if you have money you should look into moving to an area where women are very desperate and you should be able to find somebody with relative easy. I might have done the same if I had money and if I wasn't so jaded. If you are in the U.S. there are many eager filipino women you could import, by the way. Remove yourself from the company of sex-havers and relationship-havers, they have no idea how badly talking about their success hurts us. Overall I found that getting a dog, making friends, and taking certain prescribed medications made me stop trying to kill myself over severe deficits in my romantic life
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