/LGBT/ General 7
This thread is about the fact that queer people shouldn't be gatekept away from queer spaces based on how much oppression they have faced. the reason why is that they are queer either way regardless, and they still experience discrimination due to unchangeable aspects of what they are
This is mostly referring to asexual and aromantic people but it applies to others as well
>>7798You will find a gf eventually
Give me your stats:
Age
Height
Weight
Employment status, salary
Face rating out of 10
>>7799>You will find a gf eventuallyTbh I probably will eventually. But it could easily be another 10-15 years and I'm not sure I can wait that long.
>Give me your statsSorry I'm not doxing myself. I will make it easy for you though:
3/10 and early 20s aka it's so over
>>7802Some of us just lose the genetic lottery
So what do you do to cope then?
>>7803Sadly true.
To cope I mainly just focus on work, I take any overtime I can get, and play video games. How about you anon?
>>7804Its the foundation of any relationship with a woman
Or are you a blue/red piller who thinks you can work your way up into esteem, same way your boss tells you to work hard for a promotion?
>>7805Im not as bad as your situation
I actually have some blessings
Rn i cope with educating myself about most relevant subjects, shutting myself away reading - would like to write books and/or make educational videos one day, live off that
>>7808Dont forget its the ugliest guys who cope with improving their "game", who think dating is a numbers game of awkwardly asking girls outor coercing their numbers off them.
Unironically bee-ing yourself is the only way you can have genuine confidence, and to test a woman to see if she likes your company. Obviously you will be mostly friendzoned, but thats better than the alternative. As long as you dont shill yourself out as a beta-bucks loser you havent lost anything.
Looks are very important - im sure none of us would tease an ugly girl for a relationship.
>>7818LOL
The funniest guy in the world has no value to a woman if he is an ugly manlet
>>7821I am not fucking doxxing them. He is a short ginger with slightly receded hairline and 5/10 face. Not in shape either.
>>7822No. As I said, its the personality.
>>7827Uglies and manlets date, they just dont date "attractive" women
Maybe our standards are different though
>>7830In a polygamous society maybe they would get chad
But copers invented monogamy to tie women down to le sacred contract
>>7835>transDo you strongly desire to be a woman? Warning: not the same as not liking being a man.
Warning: not the aame as not liking to be specific kind of man you are now
>nonbinaryYou either decide to present non-binary or not. Its a style, like being a goth.
>>7834Its overstated
Men care about personality as well
And women care about looks a lot
So much of a womans consciousness revolves around her own appearance, why wouldnt it apply to how men look to her too?
Chad is not a big muscular guy though - he is an anime boy, lean, tall and masculine, but still soft and pretty.
>>7835Its a daily choice, not a medical diagnosis
Some people boymode forever
>>7835If you are over 18 your bones will stay as they are
HRT smoothens skin and can reduce your hairline recession, but its not magic
Like a regular woman, you will begin to lose your sexual value after 30 anyway, so if you dont pass well now, you likely never will
>>7841Exactly
The idea of "redemption" and "getting the girl" is a purely male fantasy of overcoming your inherent flaws - but once you are marked, its over.
>>7835>>7842Try make up tutorials and different styles
A lot of people forget how manufactured todays beauty standards are
>>7839First impressions are VERY importantets say you meet some girl as a fattie
Then u glow up
She will still see u as a fattie coping, consciously or not
Which is why its impossible to get out of the friend zone
>>7833newgene here.
I am blackpilled.
The reason I say older women arebetter is because if they thriw a hissy fit, you can show them to the wirld how theyre used goods and youre justified to kick them to the curb.
I also say that romantic love is luxury, best left for the rich.
Too many postoubescent humans are more desperate for genital contact than their pubescent peers.
>>7847I like older women
But i also jerk off to the idea of having sex with my mom every day too
Different strokes for different folks
>>7852I am already an other
So i get permission to own slurs
>>7854Using them in a bonding capacity is different from using them to dehumanize people which plenty of anons do here nonstop, using the excuses that it's "just how imageboards work" or that it's "just a word for people i find annoying with zero history or context behind it" or "not dehumanizing people is liberalism" or "imageboards aren't a safe space, unless i'm using slurs, then they are a safe space for me to use them."
the truth is you're running protection for bigots. i bet you were on 8chan calling people the N word when you were 16 but now you're out of the closet now so you use that as an excuse instead.
>>7850>i think a lot of incels are mad that insanely attractive women won't date them, but they won't even try to go after average looking women, and then they confuse this dynamic for "all women only date chad" when really it's "all the women I went after only date chad"None of the women who I have had a crush on are conventionally "beautiful". They were mainly alt-girl types who never got any attention from chad, but still spent their time chasing after him anyway. It is incredibly frustrating to watch.
You see the fundamental issue isn't incels going for women outside of their league, it's the complete opposite. Women are unable to settle for their looksmatch because their looksmatch doesn't tick all their boxes of being the hyper-masculine prince which they have been told they deserve. All the data and studies proves this too.
>>7855So what should i do then?
You sound like a whiny bitch, no offense.
And yes, i am a walking stereotype.
White suburban kid who browsed 8chan, used the n word. Still says the n word irl to my white friends. Have no black friends. Etc.
Where does "fun" or "excess" play a part to you in life? Do you watch porn, which exploits women?
I dont care.
>>7856>looksmatchDoesnt exist, that concept operates under the wrong assumption that men and women are on average equally attractive. Which isnt true, because the only measure of attractivness is "do people find you attractive?" And as you yourself pointed out, for most men the answer is no, while for women its yes.
>Women are unable to settleBecause they dont have to settle. Most can get the man they want, not neccessary some kind of ideal, but a man that they genuinely like and feel attracted to.
>>7859Yes
Thats why even if men are married they still act possessively over women, since they have options
Now today you get all this hysteria over cuckolding and open relationships, when it is just women being free from manlet coercion.
>>7861There is no "game", its just the beauty of nature
Queen bees, queen ants, beautiful women, the white goddess, anima, athena, saraswati, kali.
Why not just forgo your phallus and submit to the goddess?
>>7858argue in bad faith. I'm not arguing. I'm saying how it is.
>go somewhere else. the whole internet is like this
>>7863Millions of sperm
1 egg
Thats life
>>7856>on are conventionally "beautiful". They were mainly alt-girl types pic 1
went after pic 2
and then really told himself "ummm she wasn't conventionally attractive ok she was a 5/10 at best, i wasn't punching above my weight ok, this isn't fair. she was actually a borderline ugly…. and she still will only date chad! Why is this happening to me?!?!?!"
>>7856>>7856> Women are unable to settle for their looksmatch because their looksmatch doesn't tick all their boxes of being the hyper-masculine princeyou little shit.
1. stop watching tate
2. realize that women were treated as chattel for most of human history, trade away by their fathers to some sleezebag for 3 bags of rice and a goat
3. realize that 2/5 women get sexually assaulted some time in their life and that what for you is "le sadboi romance" is actually a very precarious and dangerous situation for them
>>7865I agree
Models are not seen as attractive as regular women by men
Men do not want skinny, tall pristine women, but more casual, mid-sized women
I remember growing up and there were the "pretty girls", but i always liked the ones lower on the totem pole
My friend was friends with objectively the most attractive girl in the school yet she never got male attention
>>7869>stop watching tateI don't.
>realize that women were treated as chattel for most of human history, trade away by their fathers to some sleezebag for 3 bags of rice and a goatMeanwhile men were serfs, slaves or soldiers who either worked themselves to death in the fields or died in some pointless war for an inbred noble. Also the majority of incels aren't white and usually poor, so if you want to get into the historical oppression game have fun with that.
>realize that 2/5 women get sexually assaulted some time in their life and that what for you is "le sadboi romance" is actually a very precarious and dangerous situation for themAnd how is this relevant to the argument? I'm not a rapist and most incels aren't rapists and there's no evidence to prove otherwise.
>>7846Don't worry, you'll be reported here :)
Maybe instead of comparing people edgelords to white supremacists, you should lurk more.
Or alternatively I can apply your logic and report your homophobia for saying the "f-word"
>>7876Well…
Exactly anon.
Although, i identify as straight and i still occasionally jerk off to gay porn, and have for 8 years now - so try that path first
>>7880Well thats normal for a straight man
Im just interested
What was your homelife like as a child. Both parents?
Did you ever experiment?
Its strange to speak to someone so fiercely heterosexual here
>>7881>What was your homelife like as a child. Both parents?Both of my parents stuck around and didn't abuse me, neither did anyone else. I have a cordial relationship with them now.
>Did you ever experiment?I once did dirty talk with a "femboy" I met on disc0rd but I didn't really like it because I knew I wa just talking to a dude. That's the only sexual experience I have had in my life.
>Its strange to speak to someone so fiercely heterosexual hereIt's not an ideological or moral thing I'm just not attracted to guys and women have made it consistently clear they want nothing to do with me romantically.
>>7874I doubt you can just change your sexuality
But if you want to waste your time trying, maybe get into femboys and futa, after that insert a pencil or even a dildo up your ass
>>7882Most people on the left are just a bit fruity is all
No need to make excuses
Believe me, i love women too
I always forget though how many KHVs are on here
That fbi.gov story made me sad for you
Have you ever downloaded tinder?
>>7888 (me)
To clarify, he wasn’t bullied because he had the pink back pack per se, but it was because he was bullied for “being gay” and the “evidence” of his “gayness” was the pink backpack.
>>7885From what I've seen with femboys, they're down for hook ups, they just want to cuddle before hand.
>>7890Yeah that's life.
Women are like jobs, you have to apply to 100s if not 1000s to work something out, even if you're qualified.
>>7891I'd bring up the cumtown clip if I could, but yeah – the real answer is to just kick the bullies asses – reminds me of the story on cumtown where a black theater kid who sucked dick during the day did kung fu against people who mocked him.
>>7892>From what I've seen with femboys, they're down for hook ups, they just want to cuddle before hand.I would only want to cuddle.
>Women are like jobs, you have to apply to 100s if not 1000s to work something out, even if you're qualified. That sounds horrendous. Is there not an easier way? I would accept most women if they approached me for a date.
>>7890You need a few flings as experience
Would you ever go to a bar and try to pick up a woman? Do you have any charm?
>>7893>That sounds horrendous. Is there not an easier way?You can try being very attractive.
Maybe you get into weight lifting and estrogen.
You'd lose your boysmell, but from what I notice: it's at the strongest when you cum on yourself, and towel dry.
You can try keeping/enhance the smell (from what I've heard) by working so much you sweat and also poor whisky all over yourself.
Just go for that musk smell.
Or even further alternative:
You can drive to where shay lives, and offer a place to live from her abusive family – it's a real turn on according to her.
>>7888>flamers living rent-free inside anons headWhat year is it?
Also, yes, bisexuals are immature perverts
t. Bi-Guy
>>7900Yet you seemed offended at your mom finding you out
Just wear the rainbow flag and prance around like u want to lol
>>7898*Guitar riff*
>>7896Insanely rare it seems.
I have found more real life porn of cis men born with pussies getting fucked by shemales than femboys being a dom.
>>7874To add to
>>7883You can try this:
https://youtu.be/PoeKQqeU4Gs?t=232 >>7895I can understand what you are trying to say but hookups aren't for me. I lack the charm and looks to pick up girls and I'm only looking for something long-term.
>>7897>Maybe you get into weight lifting and estrogen.Those things seem contradictory. Doesn't estrogen reduce your muscle mass?
>Just go for that musk smell. I think my family and coworkers would end up killing me if I tried that strat haha
>>7903You have never kissed or hugged a girl before, neveind fucked one
You need experience before you jump headlong into a long term relationship
For your sake
>>7905Telling your mom about your sexuality seems like a twisted form of foreplay
Maybe you say ur bi to add a bit of symbolic distance, make it simpler to come on to her
She will think ur basically gay so there will be a platonic element leading into intimacy, especially when ur drunk
U will be one of the girls, but also having the privilege of being a man, and you will show her what a man you are.
>>7906I guess
Heads up though, ur first gf will probably be ugly
>>7908Confidence
Also, first timers can never keep their dick hard because of the nerves
>>7903>Those things seem contradictoryIdk
My strat is basically: be as masculine as possible, while also being as feminine as possible.
Maybe get into make up, but the mastery you're aiming for is being able to fool women.
>>7906>>7904Maybe the anon should play 50 different dating games for each gender/sex that it was designed for.
You'd be beyond prepared at that point.
>>7911Thats my praxis too
Twins 🙊💅
>>7909I'm absolutely fine with that. I have already said that I'm ugly, so I can't expect a girl who is conventionally attractive to want to be with me. If we're together she won't be ugly to me anyway.
This doesn't matter though because I can't even land an ugly girl.
>>7911> 50 different dating gamesWhich ones? I haven’t heard of them.
Why don’t normies create “human interaction simulator” for spergs? They could make a decent amount of money off of it yet they won’t do it.
>>7915>human interaction simulatorThats just called life
Its time to touch grass my friend
>>7917There are repercussions if you fuck up in real life. You could go to prison for saying the wrong thing in the wrong circumstances.
Simulators would make more sense. Then you bring people into the real world.
>>7918Your personality is literally entirely up to your control
In terms of looks
Dont be fat
Have good hair
Have good style
Have good posture and eye contact
>>7922Its hard to teach charisma
I would have to meet you irl
But like, i hope you arent this much of an autist in person lol
>>7924ik
Its scary to come out of your bubble
To face the other, to face the feminine
But its also what a man longs for
A canvas for his own love
>>7929I’m a different person than
>>7928I’m just a regular sperg. I’ve had a gf before but we didn’t have sex. I’ve also made out with a woman before.
The other actual sexual interaction I’ve had was with a dude who I dated for a while. I bang him only once though but it was because the pandemic got in the way. I’ve also made out with another dude who didn’t want to date me later on.
Both of these dudes were pretty attractive honestly.
>>7932The neoliberal stuff is unique to the western countries. Most of the eastern countries are socialist, or state capitalist/Keynesian. Only Korea is really a neoliberal state except for maybe the ROC.
In before “muh Dengism”
>>7939My general facial structure, acne and its scars, height, body shape and fat distribution.
I know I can change some of these things but I lack the will to transform my body right now..
>>7917*Goes up to a woman*
*Starts stuttering since his brain has fed him 10 different sentences to say at once*
*Mentally restarts and tries small talk*
>Uh uh uh n-n-n-n-nice day<yeah, i guess>Uh uh wou-<sorry anon i got to go(This is the best version of the story)
(In some other time she would call him a creep)
Sure touching grass can work, or maybe just look at some non-cringe media to get some ideas.
>>7924>acting as contrarianThis is why there's 8 sex and relationships generals.
Tune in next week when someone with self-doubt is told to "Just do it actually!!!!!!!!!!!!!", and is then yelled out for DARING (what a sicko!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) to criticize the advice.
>>7930Because the rhetoric has been designed solely on shitting on nazis that it's seen as (almost) contradictory to admit it's both an issue of the environment created by capitalism and how the individual reacts to it.
>>7932More mentioning unique western developments that were caused by capitalism.
Like it's harder to date if you were raised in a suburb, you get nothing of independence until your drivers license at 17/18; in Japan you can do grocery shopping as young as 3.
>>7931More like:
>Doctor i think i may have depression what can i do<Hm, has there been anything going on in your life?>Yes, despite going to college as I've been told to get a good job, and even getting one with above average pay, I have had to work overtime because of the little pay, and now I have to do uber on the weekends.>Also my mom seems to have vision problems, but my first job doesn't cover vision, so now I'm considering either spending 100s of hours to get a different job, or get another side job to cover the vision insurance.>And the-<Uhhhhhhh. This is just because your brain doesn't work properly – here: try these addictive pills >>7943Touching grass literally has no downsides
It reconnects you with the real world
The internet is fake
>>7944Yeah, but it offers incomplete information since you're working on a limited perspective at all times.
It's like driving, sure it helps to learn by driving, but it's easier to do stuff like go through circles when you understand how and why.
>The internet is fakeOkay, I guess touching grass is bad advice now.
Weird that you would go against your advice…
>>7945Touching grass isnt anything except literally going outside, breathing fresh air- letting sunlight touch you
Most people here dont do that
>>7946Lmao
Anon be like:
*Gets hit by sunlight*
*Girl walks up*
>Holy shit that's so hot please date me >>7949I don't get the mockery
As someone who has no medical expertise, me emphasizing stress in the role of medical conditions without any basis is clearly perfectly accurate medical information.
But like for real: it would definitely help to fight mental illness when unneeded stresses can be removed since the system isn't designed solely to maximize exploitation There's a more simple example of health care being better in socialism, such as: the medical field being able to develop in without the limitation of profit, >>7777Too similar to my story except mine is a shitty small town in the midwest. I must have heard n words and f slurs literally tens of thousands of times before I graduated high school.
I was also friends with some sort-of liberal types who listened to punk and alt rock a lot but they ended up being shitty people. They ended up bullying me a lot when I slipped into a major depression, suddenly I was just "emo kid" to them and my cutting and SI I was struggling with became the butt of their every joke. And of course that all happened because of repressing the fact I was trans. Won't go into much detail but I was having dreams of my genitalia being wrong at age 5, repeated dreams of it falling off etc.
I just wanted a life as a regular cis girl, I know 1000% i was born wrong. I don't care about the potential scientific explanations, whether I was overexposed to estrogen in the womb or some shit. It was just wrong from the start. I had a very very delayed puberty as well and my male parts didn't mature properly as well.
I started HRT a long while ago and just took tue plunge, but there is no magic bullet, I know IWNBAW to anyone regardless of passing status or anything. I don't do flags or pride or anything cause I'd probably get shot in the head in this town for being open and happy.
Being trans has affected the entire trajectory of my life, from mental health to school performance to social life. I wish every single fucking day I had been born a cis female. Damn it all to hell, damn this existence.
I can't tap out though, I'm never going to delete myself because that is exactly what a fash wants to see. My existence itself is rebellion against what they want.
>>7958Science says liking girls with dicks is the straightest thing you can be. Being turned on by the dick has to do with reproductive competition - seeing a woman and a dick means somebody might be fucking so you better get ready or lose the chance to spread your genes. Your monkey brain doesn't distinguish what the dick is attached to apparently? But at the same time a woman with a dick is hotter than a man and a woman because you simultaneously get the competitive drive and the perception of a lack of competition since there's nobody there besides the woman.
The brain is a clusterfuck of evolutionary hacks tbh. Trying to apply an internally consistent set of rules to it is kind of silly.
>>7962 (me)
also has to be said, people who have 'made it' should help people who haven't
>>7970>relationships that are platonic but stronger than friendshipsSo like… close friends.
>>7973It's pretty depressing IMO because it's a sign of how socially alienated people have become that pretty normal human interactions are being given this kind of taxonomic classification like zoomers are the brits on safari seeing these "exotic" ways of life for the first time.
>>413472You're spreading their opinion as your own. Pretending to be a rightoid is just as bad as posting reactionary shit without pretending.
There's nothing based about AfD.
>>7969I think there are many ways to be "queer", including things like autism, and other forms of nonconforming. Particularly since gender roles are so strong, its easy to be gender nonconforming, which is not necessarily about trans people, since the main source of homophobia revolves around gays being gender nonconforming.
>>7997where can I buy?
>>8001same. what are your plans?
>>7983to a degree, yes. the whole incel seething is about being gender non-conforming or having some type of gender dysphoria, for failing to meet their perceived expectations of "manhood".
>>8000broke: Bible
woke: Bi Bull (he will cuck you and then fuck you)
>>8011Didn't those queer rojava volunteers get sent home for this stunt, and the YPG commander who let them do it got into a load of shit with his superiors? That's the story I've heard anyway.
In fact I wonder how many of those same guys ended up in the reddit battalions during the early days of Ukraine. There's got to have been at least one.
>>8016<exterminate all faggots^ not idpol according to people like you
<we shouldn't exclude LGBT proles from the socialist movement with bigotry against them^idpol according to people like you
you're not consistent
you're not hoenst
you're a coward
>>8021>if gorky posters agree with killing nazis (including those who target lgbt gatherings)stop playing dumb. they believe being gay makes you a nazi. that's why they keep posting this quote. then when called out they go "it's just a joke faggot, it's just
imageboard culture lurk more"
>>8020never used reddit. not being melodramatic. you're backing out of the conversation because you can't address the fundamental hypocrisy shown by 'phobes on here over and over. i am not "agreeing to disagree" with you. if you say "exterminate all homosexuals and fascism will vanish." You are bigoted, you want to kill people in my family, and i will kill you first.
you cannot address this:
<exterminate all faggots^ not idpol according to people like you
<we shouldn't exclude LGBT proles from the socialist movement with bigotry against them^idpol according to people like you
you're not consistent.
you're not honest.
you're a coward.
>>8027> I feel like the term "idpol" has become nothing more than a buzzword people throw around to justify bigoted humor.i also notice that some of the people who complain about "idpol" are often the first to bring it to an unrelated conversation. you'll have some conversation about imperialism, and suddenly boom. some fucker shows up with a pic of some person at NATO headquarters holding up a rainbow flag. We are supposed to be impressed by this. They will say something like "ah, this is proof that gays are imperialist!!!" (i've seen this dozens of times over the past year in the /ukraine/ general)
if you ignore these people, more of them will dogpile on, you'll start seeing comments like "agreed comrade! the amerikkkkan empire is exporting globo homo" and "haha i'm so gorky pilled right now bros." and so on. If you call this out for what it is,
bigotry, you'll get told you're doing idpol. even though you weren't the person to bring up identity politics. you're the one pushing back against the
reactionary identity politics that are being inserted into an
otherwise decent conversation… these same people will tell you you're a glowing CIA n*gger, a liberal, a teenager, a baby, and so on.
I suspect a concerted effort by reactionaries to infiltrate the mod team. They'll constantly attempt to appeal to the fact that it's "just jokes" or that this place is an imageboard, confusing "political incorrectness" as a license for derailing conversations with bigotry. They'll claim free speech as a good excuse, but try to silence anyone who criticizes them as the ones who are
really doing the derailing.
>>8029I honestly think it's time for leftypol to drop the word "idpol" from its vocabulary. As already established, it has been taken ahold of by reactionary forces on here [and just plain old bigots], and it's a word that has lost all meaning being tossed around left and right, letting people excuse or justify whatever they do or don't like.
aside from this is the established fact that in places like the united states, LGBTQ folks [and more especially trans people] are under attack by a pretty big number of states and government legislation, there is a active and militant reactionary, homophobic, transphobic [probably somewhat rascist too] demographic in the united states that want these people gone and wiped out, not entirely fascist but pretty close to it if they go far enough, while I understand the whole "blue haired pronouns radicallib feminist" crowd exists, you cannot brush aside all social problems that exists because you claim that porky is playing a game, you can't ignore social problems, you fix social problems by education people and making them aware of the game that porky is making them play, not being a bigoted piece of shit and making anybody who isn't a internet loser turn away form you.
Idpol is an outdated term from the 2016 SJW era of YouTube that becomes more and more of a buzzword than anything meaningful as time goes on. Gay and trans folks are being attacked by right-wing reactionaries in full swing, and there's nothing you can do to deny that.
realize the problem now or remain forever ignorant of whats going on.
>>8037Honestly, within the LGBTQ community, I unironically think that femboys have been more harm than good for gay people in the public consciousness.
1) Femboys are a case of erasing male homosexuality. Keep in mind, I'm 18 and can be categorized as a "femboy" by most accounts. Now, all my life, my exposure to what gay people were was just femboys, femboys, and more femboys. The idea of gay people being two extremely feminine AMABs has been ingrained in my mind - and those who are around my age. Gone are the days of the public cognition of "gay men" being two well-built bikers. No, in the eyes of the public consciousness, two people who are masculine cannot find romantic or sexual attraction towards eachother. Furthermore, it can be argued that this is an erasure of masculinity et. al., as it's an active encouragement of those who are AMAB to be feminine - not out of an internal desire, but rather, out of an external expectation. That key distinction, the external expectation as opposed to an internal desire, is what makes this harmful.
2) Femboys are a case of erasing trans women. With at least 90% of those who self-identify as a femboy, they are someone who almost *never* expresses masculinity, but rather, expresses nothing but femininity. In fact, I've seen in most cases there's a considerable discomfort presenting or behaving in a masculine manner. To anyone who isn't an idiot, it's blatantly clear these are people who clearly have mild gender dysphoria - in essence, trans people. What the "femboy" label does is artificially erase the number of trans women, active cause a divide between the trans community, and actively discourages trans acceptance by providing an "out" to being trans. At best, the label of "femboy" for the trans community provides a very thin safeguard for those discovering their gender identity - but I say that's a really stupid approach, considering the consequences.
>>8042Femboys, traps and transgirls are the cryptohet pipeline.
RETVRN to the classic staples; twinks, jocks and bears
>>8042>Now, all my life, my exposure to what gay people were was just femboys, femboys, and more femboysThat's just because they're big in memes and communication since they challenge the notion of heterosexuality being the default sexuality.
>The idea of gay people being two extremely feminine AMABs has been ingrained in my mindWhy?
>and those who are around my ageHow many people around you think like this?
>Gone are the days of the public cognition of "gay men" being two well-built bikersIsn't that good?
Anyone can be gay just as anyone can be straight, we don't have public cognition of who's straight (other than defining it as not gay), so there shouldn't be one for gays.
>Furthermore, it can be argued that this is an erasure of masculinity et. al., as it's an active encouragement of those who are AMAB to be feminineLol, what?
Masculinity isn't being wiped away, it's just (progressive) society is stepping away from there being a expectation of masculinity with men.
>Femboys are a case of erasing trans women. >With at least 90% of those who self-identify as a femboy, they are someone who almost *never* expresses masculinity, but rather, expresses nothing but femininity.>I've seen in most cases there's a considerable discomfort presenting or behaving in a masculine manner>it's blatantly clear these are people who clearly have mild gender dysphoria - in essence, trans peopleIt's weird seeing people link the push of femboys being tied to the erasing of trans women; but with tomboys or reverse-traps on the other hand, this analysis is gone since it would be silly to think this.
Obviously yes, if someone is a self-identified femboy, maybe consider that you're trans if you don't want to be seen as male in any possible way – but you're playing into males having to play to some gender role to justify them being males.
It's that rigid push is why the meme of "bottoms = women" was born.
If the femboy doesn't act male at all (in the traditional way), but doesn't identify as a women – then it's not a women, and instead we should ask ourselves if what we associate with what being a man is holding us back.
(Example: it was seen as unmanly to be the one taking care of a baby in public, this thought has now taken a step back).
>What the "femboy" label does is artificially erase the number of trans women, active cause a divide between the trans community, and actively discourages trans acceptance by providing an "out" to being transI think you're confusing correlation with causation here.
It's more likely that what is discouraging trans acceptance is conservatives pushing more and more anti-lgbt talking points since of the continual downfall of capitalism- with such a downfall leading it to turn towards fascism; (the first half of the ideology); to enact terrorism against it's own population to aim for a cultural hegemony so it can return to an earlier stage of capitalism.
>the label of "femboy" for the trans community provides a very thin safeguard for those discovering their gender identityMaybe you'd have a point if they were still called "traps" – (I don't like the term since they're called a "trap" but you're falling for them on purpose) – but I disagree on the femboy label.
>>8051>That's just because they're big in memes and communication since they challenge the notion of heterosexuality being the default sexuality. …"Challenging the notion of heterosexuality being the default sexuality" by displaying - at best - borderline lesbian relationships? And that's ignoring the times where femboys are just used as stand-ins for women.
>Why?Because they're "big in memes".
>Anyone can be gay just as anyone can be straight, we don't have public cognition of who's straight (other than defining it as not gay), so there shouldn't be one for gays.We are a small and identifiable group. Having our public perception be as apt and positive as possible, that being two masculine well-built guys, is a good thing.
>Masculinity isn't being wiped away, it's just (progressive) society is stepping away from there being a expectation of masculinity with men. We should remind ourselves that this is something that isn't extended to women. Women aren't being portrayed in-mass as masculine in the same way men are portrayed as feminine. It's a bourgeoisie destruction of an important component of the human psyche, both on an individual and collective level. Fuck you.
>If the femboy doesn't act male at all (in the traditional way), but doesn't identify as a women – then it's not a women, and instead we should ask ourselves if what we associate with what being a man is holding us back.The simple fact of the matter is that one's gender identity is worn on their sleeves - both consciously and subconsciously. Do we consider Andrew, sorry, Andrea "Fucking" Tate a woman because of picrel? No. Words alone, although important, don't tell the whole story. If you don't act masculine, don't act androgynous, and only act feminine, then you are psychologically a woman, and denial of this is self-destructive.
>It's more likely that what is discouraging trans acceptance is conservatives pushing more and more anti-lgbt talking points since of the continual downfall of capitalism- with such a downfall leading it to turn towards fascism; (the first half of the ideology); to enact terrorism against it's own population to aim for a cultural hegemony so it can return to an earlier stage of capitalism. That'd make sense if they weren't identifying as gay, crossdressing, apparently very feminine males.
fucking idiot
It's so over Russisters…
A bill on a complete ban on gender reassignment surgeries has been submitted to the State Duma.
>Commenting on the proposed bill, Tolstoy noted that there are more and more cases of medical sex reassignment operations - this is influenced by the "Western transgender industry", which is "trying to seep" into Russia.
>“Why is this being done (such a bill is being introduced.)? We are preserving Russia for posterity, with its cultural and family values, traditional customs, putting up a barrier to the penetration of Western anti-family ideology, ”explained the deputy chairman of the State Duma.
>In addition, the draft law prohibits changing gender in documents without a surgical operation.
<http://archive.today/2023.06.05-103942/https://www.pnp.ru/politics/tolstoy-soobshhil-o-vnesenii-v-gosdumu-zakonoproekta-o-zaprete-operaciy-po-smene-pola.htmlWe've reached it, literally reversing years of progress because of made up political reasons to justify reactionary hatred towards LGBT.
>>8062Yes. That you think a irrelevant social issue stance is what makes Russia progressive or not is proof that your analysis is hopelessly liberal.
>>8063I don't twist shit. The international proletariat will decide who is an agent of America and who isn't.
>>8061Imperialism is about value extraction and the global hierarchy of capitalism. Not when trans ppl exist.
>>8062The RSFSR did have article 121 that would put into prison homosexual men, but saying it was good because it was RSFSR is dogmatic, as some other socialist states did not have a law similar and allowed for homosexuals to exist.
LGBT needs to be taken from a scientific approach not a political one, and countries like Cuba have proven that LGBT people deserve same rights as everyone else and are normal people.
>>8065>Imperialism is about value extraction and the global hierarchy of capitalism.Yes.
>Not when trans ppl exist.You should familiarize yourself with the anti-imperialist critique of NGOs and progressive causes.
>>8077I should have phrased it better. The anti-trans scare (by reactionaries) is entirely engineered by bourgeois forces. People like Volodin pushing anti-trans laws aren't proles.
I didn't mean we shouldn't speak up against it; we should
>>8054>borderline lesbian relationships?Where do you see that based off of anything?
>Because they're "big in memes".That doesn't counter anything, or are you genuinely serious that you think that's what all gay people are simple because you see them alot?
If so, you're an idiot, and you're 100% the same type of amongus player who accuses the person who's talking the impostor.
>Having our public perception be as apt and positive as possible, that being two masculine well-built guys, is a good thing.Obviously we can't choose to have a public perception, but it's absolutely harmful if homosexuality is just seen as two well-built guys being together just as it would be harmful if all it was seen to be gay was being femboys.
Gay relationships are more diverse than that.
>>Masculinity isn't being wiped away, it's just (progressive) society is stepping away from there being a expectation of masculinity with men. >We should remind ourselves that this is something that isn't extended to womenThe traditional female role was to be a frail submissive stick with a pussy that takes care of children at home.
Now women are seen as people who can live on their, people to listen to, people that don't need to starve themselves to get a partner or vice-versa don't do weight lifting.
Obviously females face unique oppression because of their sex, but female gender roles themselves have changed.
>Do we consider Andrew, sorry, Andrea "Fucking" Tate a woman because of picrel? We don't consider him a woman since we know of his long history of misogyny, (which makes it 99.9999999999999%) likely that they're just lieing in an effort to attack on trans people, similar to how people would say they identified as a "attack helicopter" to attack the concept of gender.
If this was first introduction of tate, then whatever – this needing putting a border of being a female is why you see people afraid of transition since they don't want to be seen as a "hon".
>That'd make sense if they weren't identifying as gay, crossdressing, apparently very feminine males.>fucking idiotHave you ever heard of an uncle tom, or X concept that refers to a hated minority trying to play as "one of the good ones"?
(It's like arguing that Jews weren't oppressed in Nazi Germany pre-holocaust since there were Jewish organizations and Jewish capitalists supporting Hitler).
Also have you been asleep, or have you not seen the insane anti-lgbt shit in Florida?
https://truthout.org/articles/floridas-latest-anti-lgbtq-law-legalizes-medical-discrimination/https://www.advocate.com/politics/florida-anti-lgbtq-bills-househttps://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantisOr Musk (DeSantis running mate), pushing a anti-trans movie on twitter recently?
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/elon-musk-what-is-a-woman-misgendering/2023/06/02/id/1122150/ >>8065>Imperialism is about value extraction and the global hierarchy of capitalism. Not when trans ppl exist.yes i know you cunts hide behind dry academia. i had someone in /cuckraine/ tell me just the other day that there is no working class in america because not enough burgersharts have achieved class consciousness. then, when i pointed out that most people in america don't own means of production and sell their labor for a wage, I was told that I was "confusing individuals for a class" and that "the working class has to be class conscious before it can be considered a working class" and that "therefore there is no working class in america."
just any kind of pretzel you can twist yourself into to avoid international solidarity.
>"heheh, marx never mentioned troons!" >"heheh, burgers aren't working class!" >"what, no? I don't hate the working class in the imperial core for opposing my based trad ortho empire! I'm just a dry stuffy academic who wants to be highly technical! something something you're actually imperialist even though you don't support anything your government does!" >>8084Are you seriously unironically unjokingly and without a hint of levity implying that there exists such a thing as a working class in america?
liberals…
>>8058I mean shit, it's true, and it's dangerous. The current bourgeoisie culture that's being perverted to suppress the proletarian is that of making everyone focus on femininity. Although femininity altogether is important to sustain and nurture a society, when unchecked by masculinity it becomes a force that leads to stagnation. We're literally being programmed by the bourgeoisie to be submissive to them and never consider revolution. You need to understand this reality, and understand it quick.
>>8083>Where do you see that based off of anything?So we're just playing stupid?
>That doesn't counter anything, or are you genuinely serious that you think that's what all gay people are simple because you see them alot? >If so, you're an idiot, and you're 100% the same type of amongus player who accuses the person who's talking the impostor. So you're playing stupid, and ignoring the fact that I said that this stereotype of male homosexuality is now what is at best heterosexuality in disguise and at worst is just remixed lesbianism?
>Obviously we can't choose to have a public perception, but it's absolutely harmful if homosexuality is just seen as two well-built guys being together just as it would be harmful if all it was seen to be gay was being femboys.>Gay relationships are more diverse than that. Ah, now you're starting to remember the previous conversation we had. Anyways, we just replaced one stereotype that was more than arguably positive with another that doesn't accurately represent us. Fuck off.
>The traditional female role was to be a frail submissive stick with a pussy that takes care of children at home.>Now women are seen as people who can live on their, people to listen to, people that don't need to starve themselves to get a partner or vice-versa don't do weight lifting.All that we've seen from this is simply women entering the workforce, and labour becoming de-gendered. Although arguably a good thing in a Socialist society, this reflects no progress.
>We don't consider him a woman since we know of his long history of misogyny, (which makes it 99.9999999999999%) likely that they're just lieing in an effort to attack on trans people, similar to how people would say they identified as a "attack helicopter" to attack the concept of gender. You could make a million and one defenses for Tate however, all of them sounding decently reasonable. Repression and societal expectations placed on men would be more than enough to create someone who, in an act to repress their gender identity, turn to hating their gender identity. In Tate's case, if she is truly a woman, it would be the misogyny.
>If this was first introduction of tate, then whatever – this needing putting a border of being a female is why you see people afraid of transition since they don't want to be seen as a "hon".That's something caused by the societal expectations of those who are AMAB to be feminine.
>Have you ever heard of an uncle tom, or X concept that refers to a hated minority trying to play as "one of the good ones"? lmao, lol even
resorting to ad hominem this fucking hard?
and then you need to act like these *external* issues have everything to do with the *internal* issues we face. The only relationship between them is our division caused by bourgeoisie fuckery, both between anyone who isn't Cis/Het, and between the Proletarian of all stripes, and the frequency of these external issues. Obviously these external issues must be solved quickly, but the only way we can prevent them further is by way of unity, and completely erasing 90% of gay men because of "femboy" bullshit is the last thing to unity.
>>8088I wish i could go back in time and groom you
Actually never mind about any time travel
>>8087>So you're playing stupid>I said that this stereotype of male homosexuality is now what is at best heterosexuality in disguise and at worst is just remixed lesbianism?Lmao you never said that.
You said that the stereotypical male homosexuality is two guys being feminine, you don't make an argument for this being a stereotype in other peoples eyes, not even an argument for why you think of it as the stereotype other than you have seen it over and over.
>Ah, now you're starting to remember the previous conversation we had. Anyways, we just replaced one stereotype that was more than arguably positive with another that doesn't accurately represent us. Fuck off.You clearly don't remember the conversation since I was saying that it was good that stigma was going away, and I rejected that the new stigma of (male) homosexuality is being femboys – the conclusion I was aiming for was rejecting the creation and continuation of a stigma.
It's weird how obsessed you are on this analysis when you don't give any deeper level of reasoning other than saying:
>I saidContinuing on,
>All that we've seen from this is simply women entering the workforce, and labour becoming de-gendered>this reflects no progressLmao what?
Them being in the workforce has given them an ability to be independent, instead of just being a slave to a man.
It's progress, just like how capitalism was generally seen progressive since it developed society from feudalism – it only seems like the opposite since you're thinking of it in an emotionally charged way.
This also doesn't really counter other female gender roles being changed like women being praised for being thick or muscular.
>Repression and societal expectations placed on men would be more than enough to create someone who, in an act to repress their gender identity, turn to hating their gender identity. In Tate's caseThe argument I gave is incomplete since I'm so used to this approach.
Tate being an actual female vs. just pretending to be one – functions on a spectrum that, depending on evidence, and analysis, will lead you to a position of leaning towards one side or the other.
Tate has had a long history of misogyny, is massively aligned with right-wingers, and was recently arrested and jailed for sex trafficking – while yes those who're trans most certainly can output transphobic rhetoric to stop hide from that fact that they're trans, and this being taken from a single line just stating "I'm a woman" – for tate, there's more evidence and reason to believe that this is someone who is transphobic, and the creation of the tweet is based off how in right wing circles where they make tweets to try and "own" trans people – (said circles in which tate is already aligned with) – than this is an actually statement of them being trans.
>resorting to ad hominem this fucking hard?Let me guess, you're favorite author is Thomas Sowell?
What about Cubans? Is your favorite Cubans the descendant of slave owners, or maybe government officials pre-Castro that executed innocent civilians?
>The only relationship between them is our division caused by bourgeoisie fuckery, both between anyone who isn't Cis/Het, and between the Proletarian of all stripes, and the frequency of these external issuesImagine being presented anti-lgbt legislation which makes discrimination against lgbt easier, legislation that makes difficult for lgbt members to communicate with the workers their side of the story, anti-trans media that is pushed on (well once was) one of the most popular websites on the interest – with such information not mentioning other crap thrown at them, like one of the shooters being trans recently being hyper focused on despite 100s-1000s of neo-nazi shooters. or the massive push to view trans people as "groomers" by right wingers even as large as Tucker Carlson (when he was still on Fox News) – imagine being presented with all that, and calling them:
>external issuesIf troll: bravo, well done for wasting my time.
If not: absolutely unhinged.
>>8092>Lmao what?>Them being in the workforce has given them an ability to be independent, instead of just being a slave to a man.slave to man in a suit now, how progressive, kys
>Imagine being presented anti-lgbt legislation which makes discrimination against lgbt easier, legislation that makes difficult for lgbt members to communicate with the workers their side of the story, anti-trans media that is pushed on (well once was) one of the most popular websites on the interest – with such information not mentioning other crap thrown at them, like one of the shooters being trans recently being hyper focused on despite 100s-1000s of neo-nazi shooters. or the massive push to view trans people as "groomers" by right wingers even as large as Tucker Carlson (when he was still on Fox News) – imagine being presented with all that, and calling them: seethe?
>>8094>whyCuz my mom keeps throwing my estrogen away
>how bad is the masculinizationEnough to make me fear my own reflection
>>8102hey anon, thats rough
for a while i had similar (opposite) fantasies and feelings very strongly,,, and then it just went away and i see my future without kids and without marriage. So maybe it can happen to you to… whether its a good thing or a bad things idk. Get better soon
>>8102im so tired of this stupid plushie
i mean yeah, youll most probably stop having those fantasies about marriage one of the days
>>8026>i was thinking gorky posters are more just infracels which aren't explicitly naziThey claim to be communists but then they explicitly link LGBT people to imperialism.
>infracels which aren't explicitly nazi (usually, they at least claim to have some trans comrades involved)Yeah about that… >>>/leftypol/1489861
>>8027>Is this website deeply brocialist?It's a spinoff of /pol/ and remains a boogeyman to them. They still lurk and post here and try to shift discussion to the right. At the same time a lot of people who consider themselves socialists are /pol/ converts (former nazis and ancaps and such) who have not really done much self crit and still hold onto regressive ideas and biases.
>"idpol" has become nothing more than a buzzword people throw around to justify bigoted humor.It's always been like that in part, kind of just part of culture at large (not just this site). Ignoring complaints from marginal groups and using them to bully them further is pretty common unfortunately. But at the same time, identity politics has a pretty specific context for left wing discourse since it's a point of tension with class struggle. At the same time that you have people trying to push socialism you have others who want to overcome racism, sexism, etc. Those people often don't care about socialism or think it's less important than the struggles of oppressed minorities. This tension point came to a head during the Occupy movement where it seems kind of obvious there was a coordinated group of wreckers who were trying to disrupt any discussion of class by turning toward identity struggles. This site/community in particular has been dealing with the fallout from that development for years. "The left" (in the west) until pretty recently has largely failed to engage with class as a struggle or even a discussion, partly because so much focus was placed on identity struggles to the (sometimes explicit) exclusion of class struggle.
>>8136Going to try and find queer liberation in Disney-Marvel children’s cartoon media properties.
>>8140There’s the modern queer assumption that everything queer is always for you, specifically, because otherwise it’s exclusionary.
>>8150Except Amerikkka.
14 states still had sodomy laws all the way up until 2003. It actually wasn’t illegal to discriminate against gay or trans employees until 2020, with Bostock v. Clayton County. It’s still legal in several states to deny housing on the basis of orientation or gender identity.
>>8150they don't even need to round us up, what they want is an increase in stochastic terrorism and lone wolf attacks. modern technology enables this, they don't need to do it 1930s style when all that existed were loud people in beer halls and the radio. how long until the next Pulse or Club Q attack? nobody knows, but it likely will happen again and even if it doesn't, the blanket of fear is already there.
it feels so bad to know entire factions of people harbor so much hate for people who are different. i really never pictured the US falling into this state but here we are mirroring the type of shit that happened in the 20s and 30s, only boosted with the internet and cell phones.
like, fuck, I just wanna exist and live my life and come home from work and play video games and stuff. sorry for doomposting but it is really hard to feel safe right now, just my opinion on the current climate in america.
>>7954i can vouch for this, gud advice
Note that you will have to work hard and be patient, that's fitness
>>8163>>8165Top left involves the guy recognzing that it's a different perspective and respects it even if they think it's wrong perspective.
Top right aggressively challenges that it's not trans as if their intrepretation of who is trans has this massive requirements to fufill; then puts words in their mouth by saying that the author never said so it's not canon as if the statement was created to be some objective analysis, which then they state "non-canon" to push that this intrepreation is purely in valid and bad – even though the intrepretation was stated in the beginning to be simply their intrepretation, and they have this intrepretation mostly because it's something that makes them happy.
It's like immagine that someone did something similar with kayokin milf hunter meme by doing a Jolyne milf hunter meme, and people instantly yell at you even though it was just a light hearted joke.
>>8181every lgbt person and ally i know irl and even online are really uncritical of stuff like this. i even see people say they'll go to pride, and i think it's just a gay festival for them. but even with that it feels… unimpressive? like even wandering around for ten minutes i felt like i could be doing something better with my time. i felt that if i went window shopping anywhere else i could at least pick up some neat tool or something.
like yeah i know there are lgbt people critical of it but i never meet them irl.
>>8177Gentrification
Most LGBT villages were turned into condos and shit and the people in them pushed outwards into slums
>>8182Dude, I'm a Marxist Leninist and I go to pride and have fun. I don't give a fuck that pride is coopted by capital. Everything is always already coopted by capital. Like how do you think you can create anything that isn't already mediated by capitalism. We live in a [capitalist] society.
Ironically, this impetus to performatively resist capitalism's cooption of pride by "being critical at pride" is itself already mediated by capitalism. It's steeped in liberal individualist ideology. Not that it's bad and you shouldn't do it, go for it, after all we are all doing it, but don't get angry that others are doing it in a way that's different than yours.
Plus its very common for queer people to implicitly understand marginalization. Just because neoliberal ghouls throw bones to queer people doesn't mean that queer people are not also amenable to leftism. Just check out anarchist spaces, they're like 80+% queer. It's insane. If you expand the idea of queerness enough, communist ideology is the ideology of the queer, the disenfranchised, that is constantly recuperated and defanged by the petit booj. The petit booj defangs queer ideology by peddling social democracy, healthcare and gay marriage as solutions to the ills of society (ie. the integration of the queer/working class into polite society).
ALSO. If you really want to be critical of queer identities then you also need to grapple with the reality of gay history. Namely, the FACT that in the west, the history of gay representation (note: gay representation =/= actually existing gays (AEG)) has always been tied to petit booj/booj, and colonial representations of beauty, and gender relations.
Love y'all queers. Have a great day 💖💖💖
>>8185i actually expect lgbt people to be slightly more critical of it than straight people, yes. not to the extent of reading theory or becoming a full fledged marxist but feeling that something is weird or off.
>>8187<like yeah i know there are lgbt people critical of it but i never meet them irl.>>8193i mean if you find pride fun or if people find pride fun it's whatever but… i just do not find it personally interesting at all. maybe i'm missing all the cool stuff but i've only seen very uninteresting things for sale there.
somehow i think my post of "i've never personally met lgbt people critical of pride" as "lgbt people are all bourgeois libs." and because of that i don't want to start a pointless argument. but i do feel alienated from the lgbt people i meet. it's a feeling i can't really explain that well into words, i just feel completely disconnected.
>>8194*somehow i think my post of "i've never personally met lgbt people critical of pride" got misinterpreted as "lgbt people are all bourgeois libs." and because of that i don't want to start a pointless argument, i won't fickle over this.
i'm more tired than i thought i was, + need to relearn to proofread my words
>>8193Come onnnnn I made this post extra spicy for y'all gays.
Communism is part of the queer umbrella. LGBTQIIIIAAAA
C.
>>8203Lol the White House barred her from any future events and the press secretary denounced her because of muh families
Libs online are also denouncing it because of "muh optics", like reactionaries needed an excuse or something
>>8216 (me)
>>8217<muh tweets muhfuggahWhere to even start with this? Of course I was thinking about the whole package of regulations and so on, not just the internet. Do you actually believe Hungary and Poland are more open about LGBTQ than the UK? People in other countries do not use Twitter to the same extent and when they do, they usually tweet in French, Italian etc. Just like many French people tend to follow French-speaking gaming streamers, if they follow political stuff much of that is in French. By the same method as what's in your screenshot you can "prove" that UK is the most pro-trans.
>>8216The UK has notoriously shitty trans healthcare among similar industrializes countries
But yeah it's a dumb breadtube meme for Redditors to be "trans allies" but in a smug way
>>8220 (me)
>>8221Whoa so it really is like that. Thnx. Thailand, Netherlands etc and everything else aside from UK is roughly where I thought it would be.
Guys, is there a queer theory reading list?
>>8230By continuing to exist and not dying i guess
The Russian President has ordered the creation of a special institute focused on examining homosexuality and gender identity
>Russia is set to create a new psychiatric institute dedicated to studying, among other things, the behavior of LGBTQ people as well as issues dealing with gender roles and identity, Health Minister Mikhail Murashko revealed during a discussion in the State Duma on Thursday.
>The minister responded by pointing out that there are several medical research centers in Russia that are already studying this issue. He added that President Vladimir Putin has also ordered the creation of “an additional institute on the basis of our federal center of psychiatry to study not only these, but also a number of behavioral areas, including social behavior.”
>Duma Speaker Vyacheslav Volodin pointed out that the primary goal of the new bill is to protect children and pointed to statistics in the US, where he stated the proportion of transgender people among teenagers is already three times higher than among adults thanks to LGBTQ propaganda.
<http://archive.today/Xw9EjWe're going back in time now, they're going to use pseudo-scientific and obscurantist methods to justify and increase hatred for LGBTQ people in our society, as well as try to "convert" LGBTQ people into normal life. We are now far gone from approaching LGBTQ with science and reason.
Decades of progress all to be reverted.
>>8245I posted about this in the Ukraine thread a bit back. A ukranian guy who I thought was gay, whom I follow on Instagram since around 6 years ago posted something calling pride day "a celebration for the mentally ill" and bitched that the government was spending money on it while there was a war going on. How much money is Ukraine even spending on pride vs literally every other ridiculous expenditure governments do all the fucking time. Nobody gives a fuck about government spending until it benefits the marginalized, then people go apeshit.
It's so fucking tiresome. I hate that the mere existence of LGBT people is always up for debate. How does any person with two braincells to rub don't see the fucking insanity with caring how random people lead their lives as they wish and as they are very apparently compelled to lead their lives since very young.
Fuck the USA, fuck Ukrainian normalized right wing ideology, fuck the Russian oligarchs, fuck all of them for using LGBT people as a political weapon.
DEATH TO AMERIKKKA. LIBERATE PEOPLE FROM THE SHACKLES OF GENDERS.
>>8255> is there something wrong with meI'm going to guess you're alienated, don't have many gay friends, don't really like to be seen, still feel shame for being gay.
When I overcame a large bit of that myself, I now enjoy feeling safe seeing gay shit everywhere and I love being around gays. I don't even feel like I "fit in" into gay culture. It's just nice being around people who won't judge you for being gay.
>>8255I think there's a similar issue with it to the black history month thing. This is a part of the population and shouldn't be relegated to one part of the year or continued to be singled out for being different. It needs to be integrated and normalized. Highlighting it at certain times is ok if it's not used as an excuse to ignore it at other times (which it currently is). Black history is a good example because there's literally studies showing that kids are more likely to know who Harriet Tubman is during February but then forget during other months. Stonewall and other LGBT history gets similar treatment. It's like a weird liberal cope version of integration, you are allowed a containment zone but outside of that society gets to keep seeing you as other and forgetting about you.
>>8257Yeah it seems like the lack of just normalizing and integrating people is coped with by going over the top during the designation "remember these people exist" period.
>>8261I see what you mean. I feel in a similar manner, and felt it more significantly growing up.
After meeting more gay people from having grown up having basically only straight but plenty of friends , being in places and situations where I've felt my life is in danger for being gay, having grown up in a place where machismo is very present, losing notions of individualist activism, living in places where being gay is generally well tolerated, being selectively exposed to gay spaces and activities, I'm now way more comfortable being my own special snowflake type of gay, (just like most gays are not stereotypical gays despite the stereotypes), I'm more comfortable being around gay people, being upfront about my sexuality, etc. I enjoy being around my gay friends because the expectations are way different. I'm not expected to be anything. There's no one putting me down. I can be open about my emotions which I struggle with from being socialized male. And particularly, I don't have to "be gay" around my friends because its like fishes being in water. We're all gay so who cares.
For the same reason you dislike seeing straight people and companies appropriating the gay identity, I like hanging out with my chosen group of gay guys. I once had a straight friend ask me if it was appropriate to wear LGBT merch. She's a Marvel fan and the idea of LGBT struggles being reduced to an identity-commodity like that of being a Marvel fan was nothing short of disheartening. I told her what I honestly believe. It is entirely OK to wear LGBT merch (and embody an identity-commodity) since it's already a product and gatekeeping products is ridiculous and liberal as fuck.
When it comes to me, I don't actively do this Marvel shit for LGBT. As you say, I simply am. But I do like to be around nice people of all sorts. I don't like random sex, but I do enjoy intimacy, be that hugs or sex, with people I care about. That can only come from building relationships with other gay people. Sometimes to do that, gay symbols are a good meditator.
My point is that none of my gay friends shove Pride down each others throats as much as straight allies and companies do, but the alternative is way worse. When you've lived in places where rainbow flags are part of the background and you travel to conservative places where not a single one can be seen, then you see the horrible contradiction capitalism has placed upon us. You're either horribly integrated into Capital, your identity parceled into commodities ready for consumption, or you're spat out violently.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness.
>>8263i actually might follow this advice and find some close lgbt friends, especially as i can also relate to
>>8261 and
>>8257 . i've dated someone who was a straight cis man who i thought i could disclose some of my lgbt stuff too and then regretted it. i slowly learned he was the definition of "overbearing ally." would try to act like he knew more about lgbt issues than i did, would pressure me into trying to being more open about transitioning then i was comfortable with, etc. i think what broke the straw on the camel's back for me was him casually dropping the "d word that rhymes with bike" while we were having an argument. not as an insult, but as just another word for lesbian. i don't know why he thought it was okay to casually say but it made me uncomfortable as hell. i don't believe in "all cishets are bad" or whatever but i feel like i wouldn't have to deal with that with a lgbt person.
>>8267I have 0 understanding of lesbian experience, as a gay person. At best I only understand lesbian coming of age through queer movies. I actually don't have any lesbian friends I could ask, surprisingly. Can you share your experience?
>>8268Yes. Very famously so. He has a wonderfully gay book called The Picture of Dorian Gray. Highly recommended.
>>8292i'm getting my testosterone suppressed first apparently
idk when i'll get a higher dose of e
>>8295>What if free real SRS surgery existed?>a natural pussy/dick/titties whatever cloned from your own cells or something.Not as crazy as it sounds actually. We already have lab-grown cloned organs that have been successfully implanted into people. They started simplest with the bladder (basically just a balloon) and have been proceeding through more complex organs. We will get there eventually.
>What would happen to the lgbt community?People would get transplants if they felt they needed it for their body dysmorphia, which would be a small number but it would be a big deal to them. We should be able to grow either kind of sex organs based on any genome, too.
>Would people still transition and insist that despite having some mashed up flesh downstairs re-arranged to resemble the opposite thing that also doesn't even work the same that they are in fact the sex and gender they feel like being?Most people don't insist that SRS genitals are LITERALLY the same, and the fact that they're not is probably a major factor in why more trans people don't do it.
>>8296Im sure many would do it. But that seems to negate the LGBT assertion that simply wanting to be male/female makes them that.
>>8297I dont think trans assert SRS genitals are the same. What I dont understand is how not having the exact working organs, bone structure etc makes you the opposite sex or whatever you claim to be. Fuck it. I'll call you a man or woman if you want, maybe even try to respect your pronouns. But id think lgbt people would rather people refer to them as men or women cause they actually are instead out of fear and control.
>>8298>Im sure many would do it. But that seems to negate the LGBT assertion that simply wanting to be male/female makes them that.Nevermind that you dont seem to believe the reasoning, but being trans isn't just "wanting to be the opposite sex to see what it's like", not that anybody is weird for being curious like that, but that being forced to play into the gender roles, appearance, personality and even jobs that are typically reserved for one gender (caste by the way) makes them feel depressed, to the point of self harm and even suicide. It is a constant feeling of anxiety and low self esteem that results from feeling like a freak, or failing at being normal, or even imagining where you'll be in twenty years knowing that you'd rather die than live a long full life always being seen as a hairy man instead of a semi passable androgynous girly figure, in my experience anyway. The reason pronouns and bathrooms and drag queens are the main concern of the media is that they dont even want to recognize the existence of a caste system, and only want to police individual groups of people in their mentality rather than address the forced and rigid structure of the binary gender system. Even just classifying trans people as a third gender and recognizing a third gender would go a long way to fix it, but they dont do that, because liberals dont think systemically, they think individually.
>But id think lgbt people would rather people refer to them as men or women cause they actually are instead out of fear and control.That's true, but i think many of us would rather that gender didnt play such a central role in our lives to the point that it matters. Plus transitioning medically is so difficult compared to just allowing media corpos to language police. I fear many trans people just dont transition medically at all and try futilely to force people to use their pronouns as a bandaid solution. In my opinion, pronouns are earned rather than forced. If you were trying to describe someone you never met before, you might say theyre a woman or a man and use she/her pronouns. But with trans people, it would be nice if their medical transition at least confused people enough to think twice and ask before making assumptions, and to even use the correct pronouns upon clearly being demonstrated that they have put a lot of effort into transitioning and pass. But passing is a pipe dream for poor trans people that dont have a strong willpower to do so. I do think it's ridiculous to get mad at someone for assuming gender, but it would at least be a lot easier for them to guess someone's gender if the state and the healthcare system didnt make it so fucking difficult to transition in the first place. The priorities of liberals is all wrong, entirely irreversibly wrong.
Damn this hardly got any engagement huh!
>>8276I guess the ironic name+image didn't really read for ppl
>>8303Sorry to bother you all, just popping in from
>>>/edu/ to say that sounds like an excellent question for the slow pace and seriousness of that forum
>>8302wait is lena back?
btw there r some pharmacies that take debit, paypal, etc… lots use crypto, lena takes bank transfer so it's not all as bad as mailing a check
>>8270yay!
>>8306It's Munich, what can you even expect.
Come to the Berlin CSD. There's still corporate floats but tbh its the name of the game. There's also a shit ton of activist floats and I heard there will be a non-corporate "protest" march. Honestly it's a huge queer party so just have fun, regardless if you're LGTV or not, life's good.
>>8306Did today, the vibes were definitely very "democratic party" vibes. I was able to tilt the christian martyrdom fetishist protesters by arguing that they worship the antichrist and this guy broke his stoic shit and started making faces and getting closer to me and shit one of those interactions you replay in your head over and over to savor
as corporate as that shit is being surrounded by people who see you as human feels really good
>>8276>1. what are the most based sections of the LGBT movement? Is it queer liberation?The commie ones. There's LGBT marxists and queer anarchists, but there's not really
that much to say about the subject tbh. Curtailing the rights of minorities is bad. Heteronormativity is bad. Puritanism is bad. Etc. Liberals are the ones who like to navel gaze about this stuff, but there's not really
that much to analyze about it so there's not naturally a huge overlap between LGBT movements and socialism.
>2. Is it the case that there are multiple tendencies of radfem and if so does it both contain materialist-communist ones as well as reactionary ones? Please list them if possibleThere's a common misunderstanding about terminology with feminism. There are marxist feminists but they are called marxist feminists. "Radfem" or "radical feminist" refers to a particular kind of feminism that takes patriarchy or men to be the fundamental problem to solve and overthrow. They are not "radical" in the sense of being socialists or something, it's unrelated to that. There are subgroups within radical feminism but tbh the core assumptions tend to be pretty essentialist and lead to TERFism and "Kill All Men"ism if taken to their logical conclusions. Radfems are not very relevant anymore anyway (mainly 2nd wave), feminism has moved on from that for a while now (4th wave). Again, if you are looking for the communist feminists then you want marxist feminists.
And also worth noting that you'd be hard pressed to find communists who don't support women's rights and abolishing gender roles and sexism but they aren't necessarily going to call themselves feminists.
>>8314>>8315>>8316>>8317https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolence_(song)#Critical_response>Critical response>Nolan Feeney of Time criticized the song for its glorification of domestic violence, mentioning Lorde's comment on Del Rey's music, "This sort of shirt-tugging, desperate, don’t leave me stuff. That’s not a good thing for young girls, even young people, to hear." However, Feeney also stated that Del Rey would "likely" not endorse the "screwed-up tales of vice and luxury" her character, Lana Del Rey, sings about.[8] While noting that Del Rey did not offer a positive or negative opinion on domestic violence, Harley Brown of Spin said that the lyrics to the song could generate controversy, especially since Del Rey dismissed feminism in a recent interview with The Fader, saying "For me, the issue of feminism is just not an interesting concept. I’m more interested in, you know, SpaceX and Tesla, what’s going to happen with our intergalactic possibilities. Whenever people bring up feminism, I’m like, god. I’m just not really that interested."[9][10] By the end of 2014, NME named "Ultraviolence" the 32nd best song of the year.[11] >>8325Oh, I was confused because she's pushing 40 herself, lol.
Is she really that big with the zoom zooms?
>>8330Gore spammers from 4chan do not know who Gorky is.
Gorkyposting is a /leftypol/ inside joke.
>>8329>>8333Ivy is so good. Self-control is also so good.
Both Channel Orange and Blonde have very good songs but there's also mid songs in both albums.
Thoughts on the newest and very popular gay anthem Padam Padam by Kylie Minogue?
I mean sure its catchy, but I find it very bland…
>>8338>the best girls are in gay barsStraightoids have been plaguing gay bars since the 70s?!
>>8361Urgh… fine… but only cuz im in a good mood….
>>8360Only when i get force futa'd.
>>8369It's totally fucked.
If a trans man goes in the women's bathroom, he's going to be beaten or arrested for being a guy in the women's bathroom.
If he goes in the men's bathroom, he's breaking the law and risks jail.
>>8369>>8368What a shameful event. I saw people leaving Florida because of this, but who can realistically leave Florida and not have done it already, Extremely sad and worrying.
The "land of the free" yet again showing itself to be the land of the unfree. You can't abort, you can't dress however you want, you can't get certain medical treatments based on legislature's feelings on said treatments, you can't do shit.
>>8373At least you can still buy guys to defend yourself with! Imagine being in europe where you not only have to let people dehumanize you, you have to sit there and endure it like a bitch until they eventually break into your home and murder you with no recourse.
>>8374I don't think society will last past 2030. It's odd how all the data is converging towards this and yet nobody will extrapolate the very obvious conclusion and will whine and howl about how you're a doomer.
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