So, I'm a musician, who wants to have a musical career (a lot of communist musicians had stable careers) and meanwhile stupid porkies tell me that "no, we'd prefer if you were replaced, prole, because there if no place for people like you" and I hear, not only music, but other art, computer science, programming etc. will be replaced by AI. How do we stop this, so people are still prosperous in the real socialst societies?
>>27567 (me)
Oh and write things in a way that doesn't sound like an allistic with alsheimers and a 3rd grade reading level.
>>27559The whole "AI is taking over the arts" is just indignation made by artists.
AI is a tool. Its not workable by itself.
AI uses pre-existing samples of media.
All it does is it makes a mishmash of new data based on preexisting ones.
It still needs a human to do the final touches.
I remember back in the 2000s and 10s when we had haptic auxiliary pads for computers.
When people made manual digital art using a stylus and a haptic pad, people were freaking out about how digital art was replacing physical art.
The same was said about digital sampler keyboards in music.
Take the Synclavier and Fairlight Computer Synthesizer.
They were the hot shit in the 1980s.
People were freaking out about those machines replacing musicians
Take On Me by aHa and Never Gonna Give You Up by Rick Ashley used those machines to make the song.
Or digital audio workstations.
Which are digital sampler keyboards on a computer.
Same thing.
Also, when it comes to arts and crafts, professional careers made out recreational activities are always scarce and rely solely on corporations.
If you're worried about being replaced by AI as an artist, than it's not AI but your shot at being in business as a musician.
If anything we need to stop philosophising recreational professions so much.
>>27575Typography? You mean calligraphy?
Or you mean like printing press kind of deal?
If you mean printing press in terms of typography, then you know that typography was demonsoed by calligraphy.
Before printing press, copies of books and newsletters has to be remade by hand.
When printing press came along in the fifteenth century, calligraphers were in crisis.
Also, manual can be digital, not just analog.
>>27577This
People think automation or new tech means less human input.
Tech is not transcendent.
It requires someone to something to move it, externally or internally.
>>27582Useless in terms of a profession
Music doesn't help make food or electrolytes water.
It doesn't help grow crops
It's a recreational activity
If you do music as a hobby that's ok.
>>27582Art shouldn't be subject of profit motive.
Establish socialism -> automation is used to help people
Live under capitalism -> all tech advancement is used to make life worse
Fighting against tech advancement under capitalism is a battle lost centuries ago.
>>27586Too bad. We will evacuate all twelve communists out of it, and turn the rest into a large open air gulag. Don't worry, it'll be a catholic and
polish gulag.
>>27584Those were state assigned propaganda artists.
Just like how city halls have media departments to make public service advertising
>>27589This. People really have no cultural history.
They always assume any new forms of tech are automatically destroying life as we know it.
>>27589>AI literally works by continuing the previous token with the most probable next tokenThat's how the organic brain works,buddy
>you are not an artist, you are an obsolete petite bourgeois of the culture industry that is getting angry like a Luddite against your competitors using a machine to make the exact same product that you do, but cheaper.This rebellion of service industries against the modernity is hilarious. The high and mighty leaders of opinions getting scared over some dumb machines replacing them
>>27592They'll eventually use AI to hallucinate an entire OS like they are making AI hallucinate Minecraft with Oasis
>>27589you're a retard
just because ai is taking market share from furry hentai artists (it's not just them, it has an enormous affect on things like junior programmers and a lot of other 'non-creative' industries) doesn't mean it isn't going to come along and replace whatever you currently do as well
are you a truck driver? you will get replaced by automated vehicles. electrician, plumber, carpenter? all it will take is some dumbass with a tablet that gives him explicit instructions on how to fix everything as he just puts on goggles that let the machine see everything for him, and once they make the mechanical manipulation part feasible they won't even need that guy. mechanic? you're basically already done bud. programmer/software engineer? hahaha yea what job could be more safe from automation than putting numbers in a computer
>>27596>electrician, plumber, carpenter? all it will take is some dumbass with a tablet that gives him explicit instructions on how to fix everything as he just puts on goggles that let the machine see everything for himThe thing with those jobs is that people off the streets can't fix anything even with somebody guiding them. And "mechanical parts" will always cost more because there's just soooo much organic parts running around the place
But educated positions? Oh, they are going the way of a job called "calculator"
>>27597>The thing with those jobs is that people off the streets can't fix anything even with somebody guiding them.Yes they fucking can retard, 99% of the shit your hvac dad fixes is just fiddling some valve or flipping a switch
a fucking tablet with sufficient visual sensors can literally point anybody exactly to what do with an integrated hud
it doesn't take a whole replacement to drive down wages sufficiently anyway, it just requires a massive replacement of most of the labor pool and suddenly you have no room to negotiate with porky regardless of your esteemed 'trade license' that you had to lick the ass of some older contractor to get
>>27599>a fucking tablet with sufficient visual sensors can literally point anybody exactly to what do with an integrated hudYou are underestimating non-specialists' helplessness, lmao
>you have no room to negotiate with porkyThe only thing those jobs fear is uberization of a sort, where a big company coordinates a large share of the labor pool and then can dictate the terms. But even then taxi drivers just like switched over to uber instead of getting replaced.
AI-driven cars are kind of retarded though, it's a costly computerized solution to a logistical-organizational problem that's solved by trains and buses
>>27600the point is not ai, it's automation in general, ai is merely a new component of further automation
automation WILL replace every worker the longer capitalism goes on, this includes your hvac uncle, plumbers, carpenters, etc
even when automation doesn't work to replace those workers, porky will have replaced so many other sectors that it will drive competition to your sector so fiercely you wlll lose all negotiation power and porky will just subjugate you the old fashioned way
>>27601It won't, just how capitalism wasn't able to replace individual self-employed workers for centuries
But it's funny to me that you think that I only able to say this because I feel myself secure in my HVCA dad or uncle. What next? Are you going to say that we must protect the jobs and incomes of furry artists?
>>27598Ok now with that attitude I can see why some others on here said your profession is useless.
It's always the elitists who are against new tech.
The real problem with capitalism is that it makes people think that arts and crafts are inherently virtuous and essential to society as a career.
>>27593>That's how the organic brain works,buddyLiterally untrue, actually unprovable, and even if we were parrots like you say there would be 8 billion unique parrot brains that function by integrating far more information domains than merely language or merely sound (which AIs so far treat only separately, unlike humans); it is simply impossible for an operation of reduction over a compartmentalized fraction of the output of these brains to have more capacity of producing something new than the individual brain itself.
>>27594why the fuck are you telling me all that you mouthbreather my post was talking specifically about art and nothing else
>>27601>>27599This is someone who doesn't understand trades work at all.
I job shadowed irrigation and HVAC.
It's not as simple as fiddling switches and levers.
You are a fucking retard.
Automation is only gonna speed up and multiply produce.
It's gonna reduce manufacture workers, not installers.
>>27604I have no clue what you wanted to say
Human brain works on neurons that establish connections between each other, and those connections upon "hearing a word" flare up with a certain chance, randomly, first one to flare up continues the thought. Moreso, brain research shows that concepts/tokens in human brain are physically located in such a way that closely related ideas remain close (with "in-built" concepts, such as vision, literally connected to our physical eyes, motorics/movements to hands/legs, etc), same way AI is organized (but AI uses a hell of a lot of dimensions and axis)
The only way to claim that human consciousness is essentially distinct from AI consciousness is to believe in a soul or something
>>27606the installation process will just be engineered to accommodate the automation process
your job is not safe, your dads hvac small business days are numbered
licking ass during your apprenticeship doesn't represent your gritty fortitude and commitment to the job, it's just some gay shit you did with another man
>>27583Why didn't you start by phrasing it like that?
>>27581 makes it sound like you hate music and musicians
>>27613I'm not hvac guy, don't have hvac uncle or father or brother or even sister, I merely entertained your butthurt
"Easy physical labor" jobs are not so easy. It's your bias speaking. Try fucking making something with your hands, and do it right on the first try. THAT SAID, basically everyone can learn doing it. Does this mean they will, or does this mean they'll do it right? Hell no
Also, what's your issue with apprenticeship? I'm not a burger, so don't know what's your gripe with hvac is
>>27589>If your art is so unorginal, commercial and predictable that it is actually losing ground to AI slop then it isn't art, it is a commodity, and you are not an artist, you are an obsolete petite bourgeois of the culture industry that is getting angry like a Luddite against your competitors using a machine to make the exact same product that you do, but cheaper.What you are talking about is current ai though? What about future ai like asi.
These types of ai would be able to produce art better faster and maybe more original than human art. In that type of situation how would human artists be able to compete?
>>27614Nah, the abundance of labor created by AI forcing people out of their jobs will uplift some other industry, and on top of that we talk about cheap and plentiful labor everywhere in every field
Even if you expect AI to take over EVERY job, and also somehow block people from getting employed, even then you'll get people just create jobs for the unemployed or self-employ outside of "AI-capitalist" system
>>27617>you'll get people just create jobs for the unemployed or self-employ outside of "AI-capitalist" systemthat just sounds like the capitalists will live in their high tech "utopias"
meanwhile us the proles or "lesser" people will be kicked outside to fend for ourselves.
pretty grim picture
>>27619>and that NEVER happened in history.because something like asi and mass scale automation never happened before.
All our past inventions still required the human operator to monitor and manage it. Meanwhile asi has the potential to run fully by itself.
Once porkie automates the majority of the processes. And have asi and robotics to monitor and manage such automation. Then why would humans be needed here?
>>27620That's not feudalism. Feudalism is a bunch of hereditary parasites owning land and extracting rent from it's use, sometimes with serfdom enforced, sometimes even with slavery
What is described in this antiutopia is like rich people's fully automated luxury gay space communism with huge swathes of humanity being simply unneeded. That's not going to happen. Israel-Gaza situation is only possible Israel wants land and is supported by capitalism. Luxury gay space capitalist communism would require no land, no rent and whatever else
>but muh resourcesWell then, such a system is not insulated, and the rest of humanity isn't unneeded
>>27615hvac bros in burgeristan are annoying dipshits who drive around in over sized trucks and listen to country music and voted for trump because they think he fix the egg prices
they have a "I'm a simple minded man with a brain the size of a peanut and my work is as basic as apple pie" mentality while simultaneously reverting to how important, gritty, challenging, and irreplacable their form of 'labor' is when their egos are challenged even slightly by anything
they hate college education because of how arcane and extravagant it seems to them to obtain a credential to do a specific thing as a certification of expertise, while… having a lifestyle based on undergoing an arcane extravegent process to obtain a credential indicating expertise known as apprenticing
they think unionizing is gay and so is taxing the rich and shit, they're just obnoxious class traitors whose answer to every capitalist critique is 'do trade' as if their sector of the market is immune to ever being pushed out when it isn't
I've done physical labor jobs, I've worked on factory lines, I've fixed my own water pipes and heaters n shit. they aren't comparable
>>27622okay and no offense but what does that prove?
The majority of our current economy still requires human laborers to do things. Those noble idiots are just a minority. The majority of the top are still capitalists who due to current technology and economic conditions, still need human labor.
What im talking about is later when full scale mass automation and asi makes it so human labor isnt needed. We have no where reached this type of situation.
>>27626you believe that would be the fate of capitalists?
Clinging to the old ways?
hmmm
>>27628This is complicated because If we examine german,japanese, british and many other capitalists, a lot of them were descended from aristocrats or connected to them.
And regarding the high tech asi thing a lot of silicon valley capitalists advocate for this transition (peter thiel and the cult of techno accelerationism.) So a chunk of the capitalists themselves already want to transition into such a system long term.
>>27629Not everyone was an idiot, besides, starting capitals have to come from somewhere. Where German, Japanese, British capitalists had private starting capitals (and state contracts), elsewhere, like in Russia, emperor himself was ordering construction of heavy industries and putting future famed industrialist families in charge
And yeah, there are techbros. But just like with capitalism coming out of feudalism, it's just not possible without a bloody revolution, and if it's a bloody revolution, communists will steal that one and steer it towards communism
This kind of antiutopia is just anachronistic, it's on the same spectrum as fascist dreams about farmer families
>>27589Why do lay people with no background in computer science regularly relay this midwit talking point when actual computer scientists admit they understand the architecture that goes into producing these LLMs but do not fully understand how they actually take in this information and produce their outputs
Like I never read this from actual engineers and compsci people, only normies with Dunning-Krueger
>>27633>>27621>>27614>>27610>Thinks automationnis magic, that it won't require hardware and software specialists.
>Thinks doing "basic trades" only requires a YouTube tutorial. You know this is how we get alot of hack doctors.
It sounds to me you have a serious contempt for trades.
>>27634The only venues for automating, as another anon has put it, installation jobs, is either mechanical hands or wholesale module replacement of showers and/or apartments. This is just not going to happen
>b-but medieval artisans…You just can take a random unemployed guy off the streets, give him a week course, and they can do the installation or maintenance job just fine and without errors. This is a kind of a job that's safe from automation, and in fact automatization makes such a job even easier and more accessible. It's not safe from uberization, though.
Also, read this from that anon
>>27624 >>27559>computer science, programmingWe're overall safe to be honest. This isn't the first time they tried to replace us. Must be their fourth attempt after COBOL, visual coding and UML at least; they never work because you need an actual person to translate requirements into actionable algorithms that aren't completely filled with bugs.
I do not know the state of the music industry, but I can see at least the lower rungs of commissioms from small indie game developers and other small producers drying up.
>>27632Most laymen rely the point that "AI taking over our jobs"
>>27624Sounds to me more like you hate doing trades.
That description of tradesmen as Trump voting country music loving hicks who despise college education and don't respect nor appreciate nuance nor complexity is something that a lot of anti work people say.
>>27612<makes it sound like you hate music and musiciansMy opinion was more general about all the different jobs being replaced by machines which is usually positive for the wellbeing of societies. Technological development is the core reason why economies grow and prosper.
When it comes to music, I value arts and crafts and wish these wouldnt be corrupted by profit motive but done for the sake of the artform itself.
>>27639It can. But again, ASI is a machine and machines can err. So it needs maintenance.
Even if it becomes autocorrecting, unless it's sentiment and sapient, it will need humans to meta-calibrate.
>>27641>ASI is a machine and machines can err.same thing with humans.Humans often err too but then correct themselves. Which is what asi could at one point do
>Even if it becomes autocorrecting, unless it's sentiment and sapientwell asi would increasingly reach the sentient and sapient point. Thats the concerning factor
>>27643I think the real fear of AI is mostly moral projection. All the technophobic cries of "robots are gonna enslave humans" is dumb.
Humans have enslaved and killed each other long before the first TV or radio
If anything, humams are more likely to enslave robots.
In fact, "robot" means "servant".
If robots take over the human race, it will be due to being abused for human convenience
>>27645Im not really concerned that robots are going to enslave humans.
More concerned that porkie will just use robots to make the proles and "lesser" people irrevelent.
Of course porkie may be incapable of doing it as the other anon pointed out. But then again there has been situations where sections of the ruling class reformed society (meiji restoration)
>>27642The problem is that the hype means that people will believe the ai is 'intelligent' enough to make impact decisions that massive affect the lives of massive amounts of people
again, it abdicates the responsibility of shit like genocide and austerity to the fucking dell server in the it department and the shitty algorithm dystopia neoliberal hell we exist in will justify it because they will start deifying its 'intelligence' in the same way they do industry 'experts'
it will get even worse once they rig the shit well enough that it passes the standardized tests of professions like doctors and lawyers and proves it out-preforms them
>>27652They are already using ai to automatically deny job applicaitons and shit
its frightening.
>>27653they've already had algorithms and shit for a long time, they banned predictive policing or whatever because of this
the issue isnt the algorithm, its the cult of the machine technocratic libtards who are going to usher in this vaporware tech as the arbiter of any and all 'socially difficult' problems
>>27657>>27658Who wants to bet that alot of the algorithms are actually just custom made codes that can be easily updated whenever the overlords want?
That it's not some super autonomous software?
>>27662Every ruling ideology had "science" prove it right. Feudalism had theology, capitalism has a whole bunch of economics, sociology and at one time had cybernetics, yadda yadda. We communists always get into fights when yet another idiot falls into the trap of believing that bourgeois historians wouldn't fucking lie about Soviet war losses, USSR has tooootally lost 27 million people and had horrible K/D ratio, yadda yadda
It's nothing fucking new
>>27660so a farce just like all religions
wouldnt be suprised
>>27666>Every ruling ideology had "science" prove it rightYeah based on parameters set by the unscientific, the whole fear that Cyberpunk fiction was oriented around was that
technically speaking such societies were ideal and a fabulous utilisation of technology to revolutionise society, but only for the people who lead society and sell the technology and thus gives the impetus for cyberPUNKS to rebel against.
Whereas the mass hysteria around AI is not just "it's going to replace all our jobs" but also that it's a decision maker of not just process but also of goals and that makes all the difference to previous automations. Like Musk is shitting on other AIs with this claim that they're all influenced by the programming of their "woke" creators, but only to sell his own AI as being "objective" and therefore an AI one can trust.
>>27668it sounds like they are making the modern version of theocracy.
But instead of the christian god its the machine god
very very fucking grim
>>27649>The problem is that the hype means that people will believe the ai is 'intelligent' enough to make impact decisions that massive affect the lives of massive amounts of peopleOkay, fair point.
I hope there'll be a critical mass of people getting burned by AI to learn how bad its hallucination is, like those lawyers in the US who cited nonexistent case law after using ChatGPT.
>>27677dont get angry
its bad for you
>>27671>>27672>>27673>>27674>>27665>>27663You know, not to sound like a schizo, but sentient AI can never be.
The only way that can happen is either humans transfer their consciousness into an AI shell or we get spirit beings to occupy the machines.
Sentience is not something that can be made by humans
>>27593> That's how the organic brain works,buddyIf so you should make a paper about it and receive 80 nobel prizes.
>This rebellion of service industries against the modernity is hilarious.True
>>27596>are you a truck driver? you will get replaced by automated vehicles. electrician, plumber, carpenter? all it will take is some dumbass with a tablet that gives him explicit instructions on how to fix everything as he just puts on goggles that let the machine see everything for him, and once they make the mechanical manipulation part feasible they won't even need that guy. mechanic? you're basically already done bud. programmer/software engineer? hahaha yea what job could be more safe from automation than putting numbers in a computer< t marketing spooks beliver >>27693Theology is not a real science. Present day lay men know that theology isn't a real science as well. But back in the day it was a science, and it produced justifications for the ruling class to continue ruling.
Where do "Westoid OrthoChristcuck touritsts" come into the picture?
>>27682Officially we still don't know how the brain actually works. We know of influences etc but sure.
As for AI, it's not really give a mismash of data. During training, the network is fed a consciously broken or incomplete input, which is then processed with a serie of weights until.we have an output. Then we confront the output with our actual complete input, and if the output it's not of our likimg, we change the weights and start over again
https://freedium.cfd/https://towardsdatascience.com/understanding-llms-from-scratch-using-middle-school-math-e602d27ec876 >>27698>Regarding the issue of AI art, paradoxically it will benefit artists, since in an oversaturated market of AI garbage there will be people who want to stand out and will pay artists well because they will be more in demand.that is not at all how the art market works and you've obviously never tried to participate in it
art was basically worthless before ai, but it's now truly utterly dead
this isn't an accurate description because 'art' itself is never worthless, it's more like it's value is highly subjective but there is always demand for it
the labor that goes into making art however is totally worth fuck all
the only way this trend will truly reverse is if artists stop sharing their works publicly in mass and stop feeding the algorithms so the ais just poison themselves to death
>>27700>so the ais just poison themselves to deathNever going to happen, even if you somehow manage to ban artists from sharing works publicly,
AI art only gets better. There's an issue of "default settings" models hugging all the space, but just like in "proper art", when people bother improving prompts, or start training, or what else, you get very good results. Mixing multiple artists gives the most unique looks, add to that postures, add to that the function where they connect multiple small outputs into a single bigger output seamlessly, etc etc.
It's an artistic tool, and what you are doing is getting outraged at what is analogous to tiktok filters as if those are all there is to AIs
>>27701its a fucking statistical algorithm
it prints 1s and 0s in an order based on a data set
>>27706skill is the application of intuition
your brain has a literal skill issue
>>27697>asiFrom a brief research, that's just AGI++
>>27703Please go fetch your nobel
>>27701>Never going to happenIt's already a problem with both image and text generators. So much stuff was generated that it is, even accidentally, being fed back into the training data, which causes an overall loss in quality and variety of the output
https://srinstitute.utoronto.ca/news/training-ai-on-machine-generated-text-could-lead-to-model-collapsehttps://apnews.com/article/ai-artificial-intelligence-training-data-running-out-9676145bac0d30ecce1513c20561b87d>AI art only gets better.Yesn't. As I said there's the ouroboros problem, plus we're already reached the limit of linear progress in model development due to hardwere, data and algorithm constrains.
https://www.reuters.com/breakingviews/ai-models-slowdown-spells-end-gold-rush-era-2024-12-12/AI will keep developing, but as it stands now the speed of development and innovation will slow down significantly; safe miraculous algorithmic breakthroughs
>>27709>adversarial attacksDunno. Never saw it being reported anywhere as an actual problem that's limiting training data expansion
Also, isn't pixel encodimg quite trivial to defend against? Just re-encode the image before feeding it into the AI. The file must report it's encoding somewhere otherwise otherwise opening the file in any viewer or editor will make it look all weird, with colors switched around and such.
>because some spokesperson from Google said that trying to find such adversarial attacks is bad??????????????????????????????????????
I really don't follow MSM. No idea what google said.
>>27710It's usuful for reverse dictionaries, translation, image cropping, tagging, duplicate finding and such.
I read somewhere that the thing with AI is that, once it fimds a useful application, it stops being marketed as AI and is instead presented and marketed as a solution to whatever the program is targeting.
hit me up when AI can generate something like this
and have it
>closely match the written prompt of the user, including composition, poses, physical objects present, weather, background, foreground, etc.>have the outfits and physical descriptions of the multiple people actually match, rather than mixing people up with each other>not give each person 11 fingers and 12 toes>not introduce historical anachronisms into the painting>not generally look like a statistical soup of what a robot thinks human life is likeAI (currently)
<requires humans to curate training data<requires humans to write and maintain complex high level software <relies on lower level software and operating system, which dependencies are constantly becoming incompatible with each other due to uncoordinated and unplanned updates<relies on ever increasing hardware demands on a planet with finite resources and inefficient energy usageHitherto all advances in technology:
>have augmented the talents of existing humans>have not eliminated humans from their own creative work>have only served as means of productionRead Marx:
"About 1630, a wind-sawmill, erected near London by a Dutchman, succumbed to the excesses of the populace. Even as late as the beginning of the 18th century, sawmills driven by water overcame the opposition of the people, supported as it was by Parliament, only with great difficulty. No sooner had Everet in 1758 erected the first wool-shearing machine that was driven by water-power, than it was set on fire by 100,000 people who had been thrown out of work. Fifty thousand workpeople, who had previously lived by carding wool, petitioned Parliament against Arkwright’s scribbling mills and carding engines. The enormous destruction of machinery that occurred in the English manufacturing districts during the first 15 years of this century, chiefly caused by the employment of the power-loom, and known as the Luddite movement, gave the anti-Jacobin governments of a Sidmouth, a Castlereagh, and the like, a pretext for the most reactionary and forcible measures. It took both time and experience before the workpeople learnt to distinguish between machinery and its employment by capital, and to direct their attacks, not against the material instruments of production, but against the mode in which they are used."
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch15.htm>>27701>>27616I don't blame you because it is the colloquial definition, but you don't understand what art means. First because you are confusing artistic creation with the production of an object. For a hundred years now art theory has already gotten to the conclusion that art was never in the process of manufacturing the object (a painting, a book, etc) itself but in the formal decisions that were behind this process. If you go to a museum and see a white room with a chair and a wheel over it, what could have AI done "more efficiently" to create that? The artist didn't even make any of the objects exposed, he just bought them and put them in a certain order. There is no work to be automated, only the inventive gaze of the artist. I put this as an extreme case to illustrate the point that even if Picasso hadn't literally used his hand to paint Guernica, Guernica would've still been a masterpiece. When photography was invented it automated all the manual processes of creating realistic images (think perspective lines, geometry to calculate the perfect shadow etc, like the Renaissance painters did). Did visual art as a medium stop existing? It didn't. The
artists didn't lose their jobs because they simply don't operate on the same field as the production of objects. Some other people lost their jobs: professional portraitists, the guys who would make anatomical drawings of animals for the encyclopedias, etcetera. But they weren't making art, they were making images to be consumed by a certain industry that were incidentally artistic. With AI it is exactly the same. Superhero movies will start being AI generated, the next Taylor Swift will be a robot, the next young adult saga will be AI. But these things were never art, they were commodities. And your local independent webcomic artist wasn't making art either, he just cares about selling his craft, like an artisan. AI can (badly) replicate Cubism now but it could've never invented Cubism in the 20s because in the 20s there wasn't a single Cubist pixel in the input data; definitionally, not because of it's technical limitations, AI can only replicate, and replication is an effective way of optimizing a production chain but has nothing to do with artistic creation.
And as a second point, even if you fetishize the manual process of manufacturing the artistic object, there is literally nothing stopping humanity from simply setting the rule that whatever isn't artisanal will stop being considered art. This has already happened somehow in gastronomy. The most efficient way of producing food is in a big factory that carefully measures nutrimental balance and flavor chemicals. But you don't see canned food or McDonalds recieving Michelin stars, they are reserved for restaurants in France where you pay ten times more for a less optimal way of producing food, and it's not about their food tasting better, it's that the field is definitionally restricted to products being actually created by human hands. I can definitely see a near future in which AI replaces wattpad writers and actual novelists will have to earn a certificate of authenticity before being selectable for a literary prize, and the same on the rest of the fields, but there'd be nothing wrong with it, artists in a proper sense will not be affected.
>>27721Honestly the ideal would be if it only gave you what you described, and could give you errors if you put it in a position where it has to guess.
Until prompting is as frustrating as programming in Rust, then it won't be ready.
>>27559>im a poor poor artisan and we (who?) "need" to fight against any technological advancements that will force me to get a different joblol this thread is dogshit
you think a bunch of freelance musicians can ever represent a threat to capital, even if they went on strike (lol)?
>>27563communism isnt about "people" (who?) "deserving" (lmao) to "feel safe" (how vague)
>>27576>These are the people you should really be putting the most effort into, to be frank.lmfao not only are you a retard who believes communism is about convincing pbs to change their minds but you unironically believe theyre more important than uh, already existing proletarian struggle
>>27566>Artists like musicians are now in direct competition to their corporate patrons for profitsnow? pretty sure the pb have been in competition with the haute bourgeois since ever
>>27559Step 1: read Marx
Step 2: stop making shit threads like this and stop saying stupid shit
We don't need to stop AI, this is some liberal hogwash.
Rude sage.
>>27722> I don't blame you because it is the colloquial definition, but you don't understand what art means. First because you are confusing artistic creation with the production of an object. For a hundred years now art theory has already gotten to the conclusion that art was never in the process of manufacturing the object (a painting, a book, etc) itself but in the formal decisions that were behind this process. If you go to a museum and see a white room with a chair and a wheel over it, what could have AI done "more efficiently" to create that? The artist didn't even make any of the objects exposed, he just bought them and put them in a certain order. There is no work to be automated, only the inventive gaze of the artist.Why would a asi not be capable of doing this "inventive gaze of the artist". And why wouldnt it be capable of doing this quickly and better than humans do?
Wouldnt asi that increasingly goes beyond the limitations of human mental capacity, be able to do this "inventive gaze" better and faster than human capacities?
>>27727
If it works like these language models work, which is by producing the most probable outcome out of their input data and the user prompt, it's logic is intrinsically contradictory with the creation of anything inventive. If you are writing a book and your next word is always the most expected word considering the previous ones (I know AI doesn't know "words", I'm making an analogy) you are not making literature, you will be making literature the moment your next word is the most improbable one. Then you may need to follow with something expected in order to make it digestable, but the artistic moment was in picking precisely the concept that most of the books before you didn't have; AIs are programmed to do exactly the opposite.
It helps if you correctly define AIs as what they are, a model of how language works, and it is amazing at producing and processing natural language, but poetry (by taking language as an example; applies to every field) is precisely making the effort of not talking either how normal human beings do neither how previous poets did. You can make a marketable piece that will sell well by making poetry like it has already been done, but it won't be art. Asking a model to produce an extravagant result rarely found in the universe is like asking a statistical model to only produce outliers.
And this is without considering the crucial fact that the human brain integrates and mixes language processing, visual processing, sound, sensible stimulus, unique memories, etcetera, while AI so far is compartmentalized: ChatGPT is trained only on words, those image generators are trained only on images, etc., while the human brain intermixes these domains at the moment of artistic creation.
And you have a very shallow definition of art if you think it's about mental capacity or doing things quickly or even good. You are extarpolating to aesthetic events a frame of evaluation only applicable to goods produced in an economy.
>>27729>language modelsasi and agi arent language modules. Some people even criticize language models as not being true ai.
>And this is without considering the crucial fact that the human brain integrates and mixes language processing, visual processing, sound, sensible stimulus, unique memories, etcetera, while AI so far is compartmentalized: ChatGPT is trained only on words, those image generators are trained only on images, etc., while the human brain intermixes these domains at the moment of artistic creation.thats the goal of agi and asi.Replicating all of this but with a machine artificial general intelligence. Making a artificial mind that is comparable to the emergent consciousness and mind of the human one.
>And you have a very shallow definition of art if you think it's about mental capacity Well what is it then? If the inventive gaze of the artist requires memory, inner introspection, experiences,abstract thought,perspectiveand all other sorta things,then asi can do it, and faster too.
What exactly is unique about the human "inventive" gaze of the artist that asi couldnt do?
>>27730>Making a artificial mind that is comparable to the emergent consciousness and mind of the human one.I'm not discussing science fiction here. The only things that exist right now are language models. Even if you combine different types of them, as long as they operate by probablity they will still be antithetical to art because art is about improbability. The very process of training an AI is made by continually making it choose the path that most closely ressembles the average of it's training dataset: this is exactly the contrary of art. AI is made by punishing the divergent and unlikely responses and reinforcing the ones that are most coherent with the rest of the dataset. If anything, if we could see the output of a half-trained AI there would be more artistic things there, when it produces stuff such as "a banana is a republic" instead of "a banana is a fruit".
This is not to defend the human condition per se, if a machine could actually replicate the intricacies of the human brain I would have no trouble recognizing it as a person and as an artist, but it won't work if we keep dessigning them with the objective of closely ressembling human language. You train a machine to act like a person and it would be like the average person is, which is not artistic; you train a machine to act like most artists do and it will be a dilettante, an imitator, a maker of pop digestable products. It would definitely be possible if we built the AIs specifically to be half-trained and let them make mistakes from time to time and told it to work around them when producing discourse or sounds or images, but at that point it would be a different kind of AI altogether, and one that is useless at any task, so nobody would put money on it.
>memory, inner introspection, experiences,abstract thought,perspectiveI can theoretically get abstract thought, but memory? Experiences? AIs don't have those unless you are now going full scifi and talking about robots and that
>>27566>>27567Artists were never prosperous professions for most.
>>27725This. It's always bohemians and idealists and ivory tower folk who think any new form of tech/media is evil
>>27732well anon my original comment that you responded to was about asi.
I was talking specifically about asi and not language modules
>I can theoretically get abstract thought, but memory? Experiences? AIs don't have those unless you are now going full scifi and talking about robots and thatyeah im talking about the future scifi stuff like asi. Robotics will be connected to asi.
>>27737The camera serves a function that was unprecedented. AI came too late, digital art already excels at anything it's been purported to be useful for.
- Want the computer to make a new picture of a character quickly? Rigs.
- Want trippy visuals? Shaders, procedural art and drugs.
- Want to get content without paying for labor? Target your product at economically illiterate youths.
- Wanna get rid of surplus oil or computer parts? Rug a meme coin.
>>27746I'm coming at this from the angle that AI is just a tool. Better tools exist and predate it. When it comes to art people will pick tools that grant them the precision they want. The reason prompt-based AI is even desirable in the first place is that it isn't precise.
It's as though you're ridiculing the suggestion that key is still useful when shotguns can just blast the door open.
>>27747 (me)
And like even in the realm of being inprecise you still have existing tech for that. Custom brushes can automate a lot of tedious operations, like whole strands of anime hair, or whole rows of books in bookshelves.
>>27721to prove the point made in this post, I described the painting to an AI as follows:
>A crowd of cossacks gathered around a small wooden table in a military camp. They are drinking, smoking, laughing. Two literate bureaucrats write a letter to the Ottoman sultan full of vulgar insults suggested by the cossacks. The cossacks have oseledets and long moustaches. The bureaucrats have black garments and bowl cuts. The cossacks smoke from wooden pipes. Some of them have bloodied bandages on their heads, sabers at their waste. They wear lutes and flasks. They wear rifles and fur coats. They have many different sorts of hats. Some of them have earrings. Some of them go shirtless. Spears and banners are held by men on horseback in the background. In the foreground a man sitting on a barrel loses his balance from laughing too hard. Everyone has a different pose.Pic related 1 is all that I received. Now compare that with the actual masterpiece by Ilya Repin, pic related 2. AI is DOG SHIT.
>>27699my cracker in christmas you can go to youtube and learn this stuff in less than 10 minutes
>>27696isn't this just a roundabout way of saying the same thing since the "consciously broken or incomplete input" relies on massive sets of pre-curated training data which constitutes the statistical soup that the AI draws from when producing an informed estimate of what a human would desire as output?
you can really tell the class background of the average poster when looking at the reactions of less people needing to commission artists for fetish porn or whatever the fuck
>>27759now compare the effort of doing one and the other
Notice the shift in the petit-bourgeois attitude towards piracy and copyright from the early 2000s to today, especially after AI became mainstream. Risk of proletarianization makes for the most vicious reactionaries.
>>27797>>27798>>27806So many things use more water than AI, like payment processors, but normies can only parrot "arguments" they saw on a tweet.
>>27816Well ultimately piracy helps with discoverability. Every indie game I've pirated I ended up buying. Even works for large scale productions, as seen with anime. There's even cases where people put their own work on piracy sites and get like 10 times as much sales because pirates either buy it after or make it culturally relevant enough that other people buy it.
This is why I've stopped bothering with pirating AAA games, since it feels like you're just getting tricked into playing them so you reccomend them to friends. I'd rather just not play AAA games at all, even if I can get them for free.
>>27828Because search engines are a fundamentally retarded premise. The only time I've even acually
needed a search engine was:
- undocumented software: which was undocumented because the devs knew people could just use a search engine.
- a website is collapsing and a user I was trying to find elsewhere didn't link to a website or any other social, because they assumed their username was unique enough a search engine would help. (75% of the time it didn't)
The only reason search engines exist is to make people think it's acceptable not to link to things, in turn forcing you to search for things because no one linked to them.
>>27844>what is that, is it like the notbob eepsite in i2p?I have no clue what that is lol, but back in the day you found websites usually by using a directory. A directory is just like it says on the tin, a directory of websites that you submit your website to and file it under the appropriate category.
So like if you wanted to find a Pokemon fan board, you wouldn't go to google and type "pokemon fan board." You just go to Games>fanboard>Pokemon or something like that.
https://cognitiveseo.com/blog/21291/web-directories-seo/ >>27909IMO the most undeniable issue in the first one is the rear lights on the blue car, as you can see in this pic
>>27910 one of the lights is super fat and one of them is super skinny, a person would never make that mistake
As for the bodies though they look ok to me, they are face down and somewhat sideways away from the camera
The whole concept of the pic doesn't even make sense anyways, why is the guy using a camera if his hands are covered in blood? Surely he realises that it's not time to take photos anymore even if he's a reporter or whatever, he's clearly killed a zombie already or something
>>27908Boooo
Why use ai art at this point in time? Someone will find and point it out to everyone
>>27961>you should kill yourselfwhy?
>What do you even believe you total fraudclass
>You have nothing. No sense of life inside of you. No belief in any in anyone elsewhy should i? this is just glittering generality, you have no argument beside vague moralistic whining.
>An utterly craven and empty husk who seeks violence and conflict for blood sportwhere have i demonstrated that i seek violence? what have i demonstrated that i am afraid of? do you have ANY evidence of my supposed cravenness?
you are seeing things that are not there.
>>27560>An AI can't perform live showsHoo boy…
>>27559reactionary garbage, robots reducing need for money exchange is literally a good thing
As an artist (who doesn't use AI) I… don't care.
It's tiresome when people confuse artisinal skill with artistic merit. They aren't the same.
In digital art we've had plugins and shaders for decades. None of these have killed the field, but they have raised the bar. And the recent achievements in AI are no different.
Like imagine thinking great works of art can be reduced to "pretty pictures". Which is what most of the AI stuff out there is. It's like beautiful fractals, but more advanced - they can still be pretty in their own right.
>But what if people think you're using AI!?Who cares? Do we split hairs over whether painters created their own paint? I wouldn't be able to do what I do if not for the work of
millions of people before me.
It doesn't distract from my artistic vision. Rather it is it's foundation.
>It's soullessThe datasets they're derived from weren't created in a vacuum. What AIs generate is a reflection of human artistic output. It's no more "soulless" than the slop which was being churned out before 2020.
>But how would you feel if somewhere were to copy YOUR styleImitation is the highest form of flattery isn't it? Besides, it's not like this didn't happen before.
Like have you noticed how samey Anime looks these days compared to the 80s and 90s? We were already living in an era of slop.
>>27589>If your art is so unorginal, commercial and predictable that it is actually losing ground to AI slop then it isn't art, it is a commodityThis is already the case with commissions, much of it is thinly veiled (or obvious) smut/fetishes
>>27984>It's like beautiful fractals, but more advancedNo wonder why Stable Diffusion fucks up the clothing and anatomy. It's literal mutations.
>It's no more "soulless" than the slop which was being churned out before 2020.Refer to the above.
Look, I am no artist but even I am getting sick of AI art. Not because "Oh, no, poor artists!" but because the technology is simply not there. And honestly, I'd rather not see a lot of the art from real "artists" either, learn how to FUCKING DRAW first before posting, Jesus Christ.
>>28010chatbots will NEVER become skynet
VC clowns will NEVER recoup their investment
people will NEVER care about chatting with a soulless corporate text generator
COPE, SEETHE and LOSE 10 trillion dollars bill gates
>>28035The machines the luddites/"neo-luddites" were against had a purpose and would persist and improve over time. The lathe was
not a scam to get companies ready to bankrupt and rugpull investors. Lathes are still used to this day.
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