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/tech/ - Technology

"Technology reveals the active relation of man to nature" - Karl Marx
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there are two positions one can take on the issue of intellectual property, either you believe in it or you don't. either information is a material resource that can be governed and owned, or information is an immaterial resource that cannot be governed nor owned.

you can't criticize software vendors for restricting access to their source code and invoking intellectual property law to sue people who copy it, and then turn around and invent a copyleft license so you can do the exact same thing. you can't copy the source code from unix and emacs and violate their license to write unauthorized clones and then lock those clones behind your own license to stop others from doing whatever they want with "your" code.

words are not things and language is a means, not an end. the significance of a legal document is not in the text itself but in how the text is interpreted and enforced in a court of law. permissive licenses such as the bsd license can effectively be thought of public domain licenses because they contain no enforceable non-trivial restrictions that could conceivably ever warrant an actual court case, but copyleft licenses like the gpl can and have been involved in real courtroom cases and any civil litigation in any courtroom requires a specific plaintiff, and it cannot be "the people" as in a criminal case filed by the state. the plaintiffs in gpl violation cases are typically non-profit organizations like the free software foundation or the software freedom law center who act as legal representatives for one or more of the developers, and which developers get to be constituents and potential beneficiaries in the lawsuit is decided entirely at the discretion of whomever happens to be in the room when the lawsuit is first filed.

to illustrate the real-world ramifications of this, consider the busybox lawsuits filed against various companies by busybox developers erick anderson and rob landley represented by the software freedom law center. the cases were settled for undisclosed sums and these two developers got paid off, but none of the other hundreds of contributors to the busybox project, including the original authors bruce perens and dave cinege, were represented or given a share of the settlement or even contacted by the plaintiffs. so in practice, enforcement of the gpl does not really represent the open source community and all the contributors to a particular project, it only represents the tiny fraction of contributors who have enough extra time and money on their hands to pursue litigation and are under no compunction to share the rewards with anyone else.

thus, the whole idea of the gpl is just one big contradiction, it is a way for certain privileged people to appoint themselves as representatives of a supposedly democratic community project with or without the consent or even the knowledge of the other contributors and invoke their names and their work to extract financial restitution for themselves. this is not democracy, this is not the commons; this is just private ownership. and there's no way to correct for this, it is the result of a fundamental category error, trying to govern a public resource using a legal system that is only designed to govern private property. you can't have your cake and eat it too, either you release something to the public and accept that the world will do whatever it pleases with it, or you treat it as private property. intellectual property is either legitimate or it isn't, there is no coherent middle position.

>you can't criticize software vendors for restricting access to their source code and invoking intellectual property law to sue people who copy it, and then turn around and invent a copyleft license so you can do the exact same thing
You mean you're against weaponizing these systems against the capitalists benefiting off of them? Having an opportunity to do so and not acting on it is just seems plain stupid to me, because withholding interaction makes little difference, when there is no opposition it can tangibly be invested in.

Still i stand by my prior analysis, that the GNU project has failed its stated purpose. Copyleft appears incidental to the existence of quality software and more often than not the better project is written by a small corporate team or a single person in their spare time. People also tend to underestimate the number of projects GNU have subsumed, like GNU patch being a fork of Larry Wall's code or GNU tar deriving from a "public domain tar" Usenet posting, which was rumored to have come from Sun.

Real power over software is not determined by who has distribution rights, though restricting source access certainly helps. It flows from the governance of the project and ultimately who pays for its development. What does it matter to me if a program's source is available, when that program is a python monstrosity with 5 git submodules, that i couldn't as of yet get to build on my system? While this class of software was often made to address a need, its place in a corporate quagmire is sure to limit its influence and routinely frustrate users, with any sense of community involvement functioning as a ploy to profit from free labor. Quality software in contrast remains one of the few things modern businesses can't reliably produce, which gives open-source projects that have a certain leverage.

Functionally the purpose is to prevent an "embrace and extinguish."
Am not sure the contradiction of using intellectual property against it is problematic.

The only requirement that GPL makes is that if you take someone's GPL licensed code, modify it and then distribute it to others in binary form, you are required to hand over your modified source code. Only parasites looking to get rich off of someone else's code oppose that.

>>33967
coherence is overrated and the net practical result is to enforce the sharing of code, which is a net good on the whole. (and a good way to catch out the laziest corporate thieves.)
a less fundamental but greater irony with the GPL is that for all the anticapitalist posturing of its /leftypol/ proponents and the anti-corpo posturing of its /g/ proponents, it's a fairly obvious tool of a corporate strategy known as "commoditising your complement"

what this means is: making services necessary for your product to succeed cheap, ideally free, and unprofitable, to cut off any threats to your business model. if you're google, for example, you don't want novell or microsoft to be able to squeeze you upstream by ripping you off on server operating systems, so you fund linux. now the server market is highly competitive (well, really, standardised on the free offering) and that threat is dealt with. similarly, they fund apache. for a non FLOSS example, microsoft helped PC clone manufacturers make IBM compatible PCs so that the PC market was a competitive commodity one where nobody made any money, while MS raked in profits selling DOS/Windows, an essential part of the whole system but the one where they held a monopoly.

>>33971
it's only partially successful. look at the dead-end that is the open source components of Mac OS, or google's general EEE approach to web standards even though chromium is nominally open.

>>33970
>You mean you're against weaponizing these systems against the capitalists benefiting off of them?

but it doesn't do that at all. red hat makes billions off of linux and locked the rhel source code behind a paywall. google appropriated linux to build a proprietary DRM-infested mobile os ecosystem worth trillions of dollars. with software as a service corporations can exploit linux by simply moving the all of the software's functionality to the server side and only releasing source code for the useless client application, and now with ai corporations can simply run gpl source code through an LLM to generate a mutated reproduction that is impossible to distinguish from a clean room implementation. what linux gets from big tech in exchange for all of this is pennies on the dollar, some meager financial donations and some device drivers with proprietary firmware blobs. all of the major corporate donors to the linux foundation are egregious gpl violators but nobody says or does anything about that, because money.

the gpl hasn't protected the linux commons from corporate exploitation or influence; on the contrary it has necessitated it - if linux were permissively licensed corporations could have simply forked the codebase without having any interaction with the linux developer community at all, just as apple did with freebsd. but since they could not do that, they just used their tremendous wealth and political maneuvering to inflitrate the linux community and commandeer it from within, now linux is essentially a corporate product and almost all of its developers are employees of big tech companies. meanwhile freebsd is still freebsd, still a volunteer community project without any big tech corporations compelling them to shove things like ai and age verification down their users throats. yeah it will never have the level of hardware support that linux has, but if you want to trade freedom and openness for better hardware support then you might as well just run fucking windows.

and even if what you were saying were true, even if the gpl were an effective "weapon" for smashing the capitalist regime and big tech corporations could not exploit linux to make trillions of dollars, it would still be an absurd double standard to treat source code as part of the public commons in one instance but then treat it as private property in another. the gpl is little more than a monument to the political naivete of sheltered computer nerds who don't understand that the capitalist system is a two-tiered system with one tier of people whom the law binds but does not protect, and another tier of people whom the law protects but does not bind. if you think that a multitrillion-dollar company can be bound by some penniless bearded human toad and his little software license you're just a liberal moron.

Seems like there's a question of architecture and governance.
Both of which are probably more important than the license.

>you can't criticize software vendors for restricting access to their source code and invoking intellectual property law to sue people who copy it, and then turn around and invent a copyleft license so you can do the exact same thing
that's where you're wrong, kiddo
reminder that opposition to the GPL is software cuckoldry: https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/why-i-use-the-gpl-and-not-cuck-licenses/

>>33976
Why is that the fault of GPL specifically and not investors and the fbi seeing the start of the exodus towards linux and taking control of it in advance?
Freebsd best protection is that it is completely irrelevant in the same way linux was 10 years ago

>>33995

because copyleft is just a form of copyright and just by staking the legal claim of copyright with the GPL you've already stepped over the line from public domain into private business because that's how the legal system is structured to handle these claims. by putting linux behind the GPL you've essentially legally declared linux to be a business entity governed by private intellectual property law and the entire business world will react accordingly, treating linux not as a neutral public resource but as a little fish trying to swim with the sharks, something they cannot ignore, something they have to get their hands on before anyone else does. the business world and the courts and judges and lawyers that govern it and the huge amounts of money thrown around to manipulate it, that whole world is just a cesspool and the only way to rise above it and have any integrity is to stay the hell out of it and not play that game at all, just make your shit free for everyone to do whatever they want with and if people copy your ideas and get rich off of them then just let them do it and don't be a greedy egotistical asshole who thinks the world owes you something just because you wrote some clever code or whatever.

this guy is just reposting from another thread. sage



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