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/AKM/ - Guns, weapons and the art of war.

"War can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun." - Chairman Mao
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 No.1345[View All]

What can we learn from the Russian invasion of Ukraine and this example of relatively modern warfare? Strategy, tactics, operations, geopolitical responses, information warfare, civilian pov and response. Anything related. Not the thread to talk about "who is in the right".
97 posts and 37 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1960

>>1958
The Russians aren't operating there because its too risky given the dense civilian population and the fact that artillery does the same as any bomb. An airstrike is primarily for more priority missions.
> I'm sure Kiev and Lvov would be getting pounded even harder.
heh

 No.1980

File: 1653417960119.png (984.37 KB, 925x694, ClipboardImage.png)

The U.S. is shipping 200 Vietnam-era M113 armored personnel carriers to Ukraine as part of a larger $800 million aid package. The tracked-vehicle will help transport Ukrainian troops from the rear areas of the battlefield to the frontlines – mobility for infantry that is badly needed.
>https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/04/m113-armored-personnel-carriers-are-ready-to-fight-in-ukraine/

Tax write off of about $1.500.000 each (Ukraine will pay 3% interest per month on those) and of course AMC or GE will get contracts to replace them with Bradleys, at a bargain cost of $3.500.000 each.
Guess who owns millions in stocks in those companies?

 No.1995

>>1980
>US is reduced to supplying METAL BOXES
I imagine the Russian "Orks" capturing and turning them into Looted Metal Boxes.

 No.1996

>>1995
gondor sisters…

 No.2004

>>1995
I mean the modernizations of M113s are dcent (certainly better than base Bradleys) but they're pretty pathetic compared to any Soviet BMP or BTR contemporary.

 No.2047

>>1827
Somehow I feel like, say, for the 6th of July, some people here will keep saying the Ukrainian army has been largely defeated and all is according to the plan. It's really the cope war of our times all around.

 No.2061

>>2047
>cope map
LMAO fuck off.

 No.2062

>>2061
So what are you saying exactly? That this map isn't representative of the reality? Is Russia army at Kiev's doors or something? Are you sure that this is the map that is "cope" and not a "you" problem?

 No.2080

>>2062
No it is not representative of reality
>Is Russia army at Kiev's doors or something
Did I say that? No, so don't put words in my mouth
>Are you sure that this is the map that is "cope" and not a "you" problem?
Yes

 No.2083

>>2080
Why is it not representative of reality?

 No.2091

>>2083
at least a couple of those "ukrainian counter-offensives and territory regains" demonstrated didn't happen and the large areas that are supposedly not under Russian control in between "le convoy meme" is just false.

 No.2166

File: 1655859402952.jpg (227.42 KB, 1920x1080, backdrop-1920.jpg)

So far Ukraine has claimed three air-to-air victories and Russia is claiming zero. Is there any footage of air-to-air combat in this war?

 No.2168

>>2166
Ive been watching footage of this invasion since the start and havent seen one video of air-to-air combat. Ukrainian claims about air victories should always be taken with a grain of salt since their government officials were claiming the Ghost Of Kiev was real for a while

 No.2170

Thoughts on the "Kiev Offensive" that happened during the early part of the invasion? Russian troops (mainly VDV airborne forces) entered Northern Ukraine and were advancing towards Kiev, but they eventually withdrew back to Russia and Belarus after about a month of fighting.
Pro-Ukrainian commentators say it was failed attempt by Russia to seize Kiev and that the VDV got decimated in the process. Pro-Russian commentators on the other hand say it was actually just a feint to pull Ukrainian forces far away from the Donbass, not an attempt to take Kiev

Video is footage of Russian VDV entering Northern Ukraine on the very first day of the invasion

 No.2171

>>2170
People seem to think that there's some sort of set in stone linear plan that doesn't adjust, rather than a load of plans and contingencies that work with each other based around many of the best big moves you could make i.e. taking Kiev, encircling Donbass. You assault Kiev and you take it at the start, excellent. If you don't take it, use it as an opportunity to shit up their logistics. The plan involves the move and all the outcomes, not the plan and one outcome and the plan is a failure if it doesn't achieve the most optimistic possibility. Actually taking Kiev is incredibly bullish but if you do it before Ukraine properly mobilizes you completely fuck them over, so you may as well attempt it given how close it is to the Belarus border.
>Best case scenario: Kiev taken, Ukraine collapses
>Worst case scenario: Main roads between the east and west of the country are blocked, frustrating logistics and mobilization
Why would you not try it?

 No.2173

>>2171
Yes. It seems like a lot of people do not understand this.

 No.2176

File: 1655923227771-0.png (86.68 KB, 249x286, KNEEL.png)

File: 1655923227771-1.jpg (51.71 KB, 578x800, lol.jpg)

>>2170
I kneel…

 No.2177

>>2176
Hate to say it but Marichka is kind of cute

 No.2179

>>2177
Mmm not really

>>2170
VDV did pretty fine for an isolated unit, obviously they took losses, its a war, but for the scale of the operation their losses had been fairly small, especially considering they only had light armor and armament compared to regular units. That said they took several key areas almost immediately, including an airfield, and acted as area denial for Ukraine's troops. It is very unlikely they intended to take Kiev, based on the methods they are going by (very limited strikes, ignoring smaller units to take out larger open concentrations of troops, etc.) It's glaringly obvious that if Russia had intended to steamroll Kiev, they could have, but the only way to do this is at the cost of either immense Russian casualties in urban combat, or immense civilian casualties through artillery barrage repressing the military units hiding in Kiev's apartment complexes. Neither is particularly favorable in the long-run.

 No.2180

>>2176
ofc azoids would like a mid muscle girl like patty

 No.2181

>>2180
Being a muscle girl is an instant +3 to +5 so it's difficult for one to be mid tbqh

 No.2182

>>2181
to clarify, she's a mid amongst muscular women. Jessica Buettner, Vladislava Galagan or even Monica Granda are better but are only known to Crumbian freaks like myself

 No.2183

>>2180
isnt she a midget too lmao

 No.2185

>>2180
Imagine not liking musclegirls, what a faggot

 No.2186

>>2185
refer to >>2182

 No.2187

>>2179
>It is very unlikely they intended to take Kiev, based on the methods they are going by
Have you considered that they did intend to take Kiev, but they didn't expect such heavy resistance from the Ukrainians? Almost everyone thought Russia would roll over Ukraine in a few days, it wouldn't be surprising if the Russian leadership thought it would like Crimea 2014 where they would just waltz in with little resistance. If they were actually expecting a tough fight they might've sent more heavily armed regular Ground Force units to Northern Ukraine

 No.2249

>>1405
>Since the Ukrainian army has largely been defeated
>>1406
>The Ukrainian army as a unified group is mostly broken
aged like fine milk lol
that's why I love slower boards, nowhere to hide z-cucks

 No.2262

Rob Lee thread about the US-supplied HIMARS in Ukraine. At the time I'm posting this he's still updating it. The gist of the thread is that the HIMARS have been very effective so far. Rob Lee is pro-Ukraine so he is obviously biased but he does cite pro-Russia commentators in the thread who also say the HIMARS have been effective

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1540247851707555841

 No.2265

>>2262
I'm pretty doubtful because stats-wise the HIMARS is broadly equivalent to the BM-27 Uragan which Ukraine already has large numbers of, so even if its effective its unlikely to be any more effective than what Ukraine already has.

In other words, I'm sure the Ukrainians appreciate it, but its no more a gamechanger than the Javelin was.

 No.2285

>>2187
The Russian military nor government ever made a claim that they intended to take Kiev "in 2/3/4/ weeks" that's the MSM in non-Russian countries that parroted this narrative. This idea of "stronger resistance than expected" is also inane. People seem to fucking forget that Russia is utilizing roughly 15% of its armed forces… against the largest army in Europe outside of Russia itself.

 No.2286

>>2285
>The Russian military nor government ever made a claim that they intended to take Kiev "in 2/3/4/ weeks" that's the MSM in non-Russian countries that parroted this narrative.
What the Russian military and government does or doesn't claim isn't indicative of anything, since they lie all the time. First they claimed they weren't going to invade at all and that their military build up on the Ukrainian border was just a training exercise. Then they claimed the withdrawal from Northern Ukraine and from Snake Island were both "gestures of good will". They also claimed a few months ago that they would hit decision-making centers in Kiev if Ukraine kept attacking Russian soil (Ukraine is still doing this and no decision-making centers have been hit)
>This idea of "stronger resistance than expected" is also inane.
Why? Even the US intelligence apparatus, which fully supports Ukraine, thought Kiev would fall in just a few days
>People seem to fucking forget that Russia is utilizing roughly 15% of its armed forces… against the largest army in Europe outside of Russia itself.
Yes and it was a mistake on Russia's part to not commit more troops to the invasion

 No.2288

>>2286
>What the Russian military and government does or doesn't claim isn't indicative of anything
Yes it is, given that you're arguing against a strawman of "b-but Rusha didn't do the thing CNN told me it said, so that must mean its having a hard tiem!"
>since they lie all the time
If anything Russia has been the most honest party in the entire conflict, while Press from the West has done nothing but create lie after lie, using photos from donetsk of Ukrainian bombings and claiming them as Russian, denying the existence of government sanctioned Nazis in Ukraine, ignoring Victoria Nuland's self-admission of Bio-labs, ignoring the United States' role in an illegal color revolution that began this entire mess and more. Russia's reporting has only had the tendency to be overly mocking of Zelensky and Ukraine, and has not been lying. The only thing they do even remotely close to a "lie" is to not speak of topics or report them for some time, such as not reporting initial casualty ratios until the second week, something done because of the lack of complete information available.
>First they claimed they weren't going to invade at all and that their military build up on the Ukrainian border was just a training exercise.
Because it had been. Things changed after Zelensky, yet again refused to make peace and stop the Ukrainian military from terrorizing its people that sought independence, and after the Ukrainians prepared to gain nuclear military power using US help and built up forces for months in preparation to annihilate Donbass and keep going into Russia. Not only did this violate international nuclear treaties, but is a direct threat on Russia, as nuclear missiles in Ukraine are very close to it, much closer than any Pershing or Jupiter missiles in the past or present.
>Then they claimed the withdrawal from Northern Ukraine and from Snake Island were both "gestures of good will"
Yes, because the Russian side offered Zelensky a peace deal, because the entire point of the operation had been a slap to the face for Ukraine - wake up and clear your head! - but Zelensky, too deep in this quagmire, pushed on, and his SBU murdered and attacked those politicians involved in Ukraine's peace delegation. After this occurred Russia took back the territory in days.
>They also claimed a few months ago that they would hit decision-making centers in Kiev if Ukraine kept attacking Russian soil (Ukraine is still doing this and no decision-making centers have been hit)
1) Source on this claim? And no, a western article supposedly quoting Putin is not a source, provide first-hand video of this claim.
2) Except this is blatantly incorrect. Russia has destroyed large numbers of Kiev's military bases and depots, barracks, airfields and headquarters, essentially taking out Ukraine's ability to use its airforce and provide steady ammunition supplies or commands.
>Even the US intelligence apparatus, which fully supports Ukraine, thought Kiev would fall in just a few days
No, they didn't. The press did a bunch of scare stories to drum up Western hysteria into supporting Kiev to "prevent their collapse"
>it was a mistake on Russia's part to not commit more troops to the They're plowing through Ukraine like an Icebreaker through ice-sheets. It's not a speed-boat, but its making steady and strong headway.

 No.2289

>>2288
>Yes it is, given that you're arguing against a strawman of "b-but Rusha didn't do the thing CNN told me it said, so that must mean its having a hard tiem!"
Retreating from Kiev after a month of fighting isn't a sign they had an easy time.
>If anything Russia has been the most honest party in the entire conflict, while Press from the West has done nothing but create lie after lie
Incredibly low bar, and I never said the West was more honest.
>Because it had been. Things changed after Zelensky, yet again refused to make peace and stop the Ukrainian military from terrorizing its people that sought independence, and after the Ukrainians prepared to gain nuclear military power using US help and built up forces for months in preparation to annihilate Donbass and keep going into Russia. Not only did this violate international nuclear treaties, but is a direct threat on Russia, as nuclear missiles in Ukraine are very close to it, much closer than any Pershing or Jupiter missiles in the past or present.
They were still saying it was a training exercise just a week before the invasion. This was a while after NATO rejected Russia's security guarantees and Putin would've already known by then that Ukraine wasn't going to stop doing any of the things you said. The training exercise claim was a ruse.
>Yes, because the Russian side offered Zelensky a peace deal, because the entire point of the operation had been a slap to the face for Ukraine - wake up and clear your head! - but Zelensky, too deep in this quagmire, pushed on, and his SBU murdered and attacked those politicians involved in Ukraine's peace delegation. After this occurred Russia took back the territory in days.
If that's what is was, why did Russia use the same "gesture of good will" excuse after they withdrew from Snake Island on June 30th? At that point negotiations were completely mired and Russia hadn't made any recent peace deal offers. It's clearly a propaganda claim Russia makes whenever they suffer a setback. And they did not retake any of the territory they ceded after their first "good will gesture", there are no Russian troops in Northern Ukraine anymore.
>1) Source on this claim? And no, a western article supposedly quoting Putin is not a source, provide first-hand video of this claim.
Here is a Russian source with the Russian Ministry of Defense spokesman saying it on video: https://rg.ru/2022/04/13/minoborony-rf-obektami-atak-mogut-stat-centry-priniatiia-reshenij-v-kieve.html
>2) Except this is blatantly incorrect. Russia has destroyed large numbers of Kiev's military bases and depots, barracks, airfields and headquarters, essentially taking out Ukraine's ability to use its airforce and provide steady ammunition supplies or commands.
I never said they didn't hit military infrastructure in Kiev like factories, they haven't hit any "decision-making centers" in Kiev, which is what they promised to do. And if they're already doing this like you said, why is Russia still using it as an ultimatum? Recently Medvedev used the exact same threat, but this time if Ukraine attacked Russian territory with US-supplied HIMARS https://tass.com/politics/1459891
>No, they didn't.
They did though, and they are still saying they did even though Kiev isn't in danger of collapsing at the moment
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s-intelligence-agencies-review-what-they-got-wrong-on-russias-invasion-of-ukraine
>They're plowing through Ukraine like an Icebreaker through ice-sheets
In the Donbass, yes. But in Southern Ukraine it is a stalemate and the Northern Ukraine front was a failure

 No.2291

File: 1658100759269-0.png (6.68 MB, 2560x1810, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1658100759270-1.png (34.13 MB, 6000x4242, ClipboardImage.png)

>Retreating from Kiev after a month of fighting isn't a sign they had an easy time
<a month
1) incorrect
2) That area is by the Belorus border on the grounds of Chernobyl, radioactive fires on that territory are a major threat Europe, thus Russian and Ukrainian military had a ceasefire and jointly monitored and defended the area.
>Incredibly low bar, and I never said the West was more honest
False, deflection and goalpost shifting
> still saying it was a training exercise just a week before the invasion
Anon, do you understand the meaning of "training exercise" in geopolitics? It has always been used as a demonstrative warning and method of having the military put on alert and so be ready to move than during normal times, this is not a 'ruse' as you claim. Had Ukraine not continued to escalate, it is very much possible Russia would not have begun direct fighting.
>a while after NATO rejected Russia's security guarantees and Putin would've already known by then that Ukraine wasn't going to stop doing any of the things
Until recently Russia and the EU continued to try and discuss the terms of Minsk 2, only flouting them relatively recently.
>why did Russia use the same "gesture of good will" excuse after they withdrew from Snake Island
It's not the same. The area is a major shipping lane, especially for grain and Ukraine and Russia came to an agreement on removing shipping embargo and grain trade. The Island itself is not under Ukrainian control. It no longer has strategic value, Ukraine can't access it, nor could it be any use for them anymore, so there is no point in keeping a garrison there that gets peppered by isolated missiles at random and for no purpose.
>there are no Russian troops in Northern Ukraine anymore
Utter nonsense, Kharkov is in Northern Ukraine and is encircled and being taken. the majority of Donbass is in Russian control, and the over-all area under Russian control is much larger.
>It's clearly a propaganda claim Russia makes whenever they suffer a setback
No, it is not. Ukraine's military has been cracked apart and is utterly lacking coordination, having numerous incidents of friendly fire and resorting to hiding in civilian areas; any desperate method to avoid being utterly crushed outright.
>they did not retake any of the territory they ceded after their first "good will gesture"
LMAO
>they haven't hit any "decision-making centers" in Kiev
They did, as I cited, or are you playing semantics that they're not striking embassies and other government buildings.
>why is Russia still using it as an ultimatum
It's not an ultimatum though?
>this time if Ukraine attacked Russian territory with US-supplied HIMARS
And they haven't attacked using those systems on Russian territory
>They did though
Their PR made a hysterical claim for the purpose of provoking a desperate reaction, successfully so, that isn't what they actually thought, if they had, then they'd have just abandoned Ukraine as their failed CIA project, just like any other failed project of theirs, pulling out their people and more.
>Southern Ukraine it is a stalemate
<Literally steamrolled Mariupol, Kherson and Melitopol and the majority of Azov battalion
<Not far from Odessa and moving closer
<Most of Ukraine cut off from coast.
>Northern Ukraine front was a failure
<Kharkov already being taken
<Sumy front starting again
<Northern Ukraine is almost devoid of Ukrainian military
<Nearly every military depot, airfield and HQ, East of Kiev has been annihilated, leaving isolated army groups that are harassed and lacking in supplies.
Ok lmao

I'm not even going into the British estimates of Ukraine losing 20,000 troops a month, exceeding Russian losses and abandoning thousands of examples of tech and weapons.

Finally see the maps of the past 6 months or so, and see the enormous increase and cohesion of territorial areas controlled by the LDNR and Russian forces.

 No.2292

File: 1658104741051.png (1.75 MB, 1280x853, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2289
A final addition
All the Russian goals for the operation are achieved: The Ukrainian capabilities to conduct Nazi ethnic cleansing in Donbas for the present and short-term future is being destroyed. The Ukrainian puppet state can continue to take in all the NATO-country tax-payer funded missiles they can handle; their capacity to conduct offensive operations in Donbas is gone. NATO membership is no longer an option, Donbass' independence is defended, Crimea remains Russian, Azov is destroyed, Ukraine is denied the ability to carry, make or utilize Nuclear arms.
In 4 months they have gained the control of an area around the size of France against the largest army in Europe outside of Russia itself - a 300,000 man army that has resorted to conscripting women as of June, because male conscription has failed to halt Russia. So yes, Russia has been doing very well.

On South Ukraine: on top of most of it being under Russian control outside Odessa, the only remaining large port in Ukrainian control (even then Odessa is unstable and has many people supporting Russia and the DNR that are operating as underground groups). Russia strikes Odessa and its arms imports with impunity, taking out delivery after delivery and capturing or destroying thousands of arms such as the memed Stingers, Javelins and NLAWs on top of the recently sent HIMARs, Caesar artillery, M777s and more, many at the train stations they are delivered at.
https://southfront.org/russian-strike-destroyed-harpoon-anti-ship-missiles-in-ukraines-odessa/

Just on the example of the Javelin, even those that gets used are a massive loss of money. A new javelin system + missiles is more expensive than a new T-72 or T-62 back when they were building them and those tanks outrange a Javelin using HE-Frag or HEAT or ATGM. The Javelin has a limited range on open spaces that have clearly defined targets they have better chances, but tank cannons outrange them if spotted, they cannot afford to use fire-and-forget if the target is not designated and to do so they must come into range of the tank's guns. According the spotter of "le Canadian super sniper" Wali, codenamed "Shadow" he tried for 3 weeks to hunt Russian tanks in Ukraine using Javelin but could never get close enough to get a shot. He lost half his team to Russian tank fire and spent a lot of his time there dodging near misses.
HIMARS: https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2022/07/16/amerikanskaya-rszo-himars-popala-v-ruki-rossiyskih-voennyh-russkaya-vesna?utm_source=smi2&utm_term=de37c4479d0c7a748e2ce019f90fcd8e&utm_content=91655
CAESAR: https://rusvesna.su/news/1656257094
M777 and others: https://archive.ph/XFSHv , https://archive.ph/SszD2 , https://archive.ph/qSo0V

On Chernobyl and the threat of the threat of radioactive fire
https://southfront.org/state-agency-for-chernobyl-management-calls-situation-critical-as-fire-edges-2km-to-nuclear-reactor/

And as I pointed out, Russia is moving in Northern Ukraine again and is taking out decision making centres
>VDV Spetsnaz taking Gostomel airport (NEW)
https://files.catbox.moe/9iacw2.mp4
>Kalibr strike on UKR air force command (Vinnista)
https://files.catbox.moe/7zs5tm.mp4

 No.2293

>>2262
Its got slightly better accuracy and range than the Uragan, (though the BM-30 Smerch is better still), but not by much and Russia has already destroyed or captured 3 of them, and destroyed the ammunition depot holding their ammunition. Their main threat is if they get used against Russian troops due to the heavier missile compared to BM27 rockets.

 No.2294

>>2249
>aged like fine milk lol
<3 months after the conflict began Ukraine has resorted to forced conscription of women as of June
<British media group Daily Mail has estimated that Ukraine has lost 20,000 troops a month, given the 4+ months of fighting, that's over 80,000 soldiers lost. Ukraine's military at the start of the operation had been 300,000 troops, so that is nearly 1/3 of the Ukrainian army lost. Ukrainian ammo depots, airfields and large groups get air-striked, forcing them to be splintered into small, poorly coordinated groups.
<Russia currently controls most of South Ukraine, most of Donbass - an area around the size of France - in only 4 months and without using burger shock n' awe tactics.
So cope more /uhg/ tourist

Z

 No.2295

File: 1658108982441.gif (334.91 KB, 320x286, HIMARS truck.gif)


 No.2297

>>2091
Yeah I bet the map is really different now, it's been months after all.

 No.2298

>>2291
>2) That area is by the Belorus border on the grounds of Chernobyl, radioactive fires on that territory are a major threat Europe, thus Russian and Ukrainian military had a ceasefire and jointly monitored and defended the area. >>1406
your point? There was fighting everywhere else and the Russians withdrew after about a month
>False, deflection and goalpost shifting
You were the only one that brought up the Western press
>Anon, do you understand the meaning of "training exercise" in geopolitics? It has always been used as a demonstrative warning and method of having the military put on alert and so be ready to move than during normal times, this is not a 'ruse' as you claim. Had Ukraine not continued to escalate, it is very much possible Russia would not have begun direct fighting.
It was a ruse because they said it was a training exercise up until the last minute. They had other training exercises in previous years near Ukraine without invading.
>Until recently Russia and the EU continued to try and discuss the terms of Minsk 2, only flouting them relatively recently.
Yes
>there is no point in keeping a garrison there that gets peppered by isolated missiles at random and for no purpose.
You just described why Russia left Snake Island, because they kept getting fired at by shells and missiles. They didn't leave as a gesture of good will, they lied when they said that
>Utter nonsense, Kharkov is in Northern Ukraine and is encircled and being taken. the majority of Donbass is in Russian control, and the over-all area under Russian control is much larger.
The maps you posted show that Russia pulled back from Kharkov. They were closer to Kharkov in February than they are now. Kharkov is right next to the Russian border and the Russians haven't taken it after 5 months. And yes the Donbass is mostly under control of Russia and the republics no one said otherwise.
>No, it is not. Ukraine's military has been cracked apart and is utterly lacking coordination, having numerous incidents of friendly fire and resorting to hiding in civilian areas; any desperate method to avoid being utterly crushed outright.
People have been saying that about the Ukrainian forces seen back in March >>1405 >>1406 . If that's true then how are they still fighting?
>>they did not retake any of the territory they ceded after their first "good will gesture"
>LMAO
The maps you posted show that the areas Russia left in the north after their "good will gesture" are under Ukrainian control. You said they retook the territory after negotiations fell apart, what territory did they retake?
>They did, as I cited, or are you playing semantics that they're not striking embassies and other government buildings.
You literally didn't cite anything, you just said Russia was hitting Ukrainian military infrastructure which no one disputes. And yes, Medvedev said in that link I posted that the "decision-making centers" are the Ukrainian government buildings in Kiev, which they haven't striked.
>It's not an ultimatum though?
If it's not an ultimatum then what is it then? And why does Russia keep using it as a threat if, according to you, they're already doing it anyway?
>And they haven't attacked using those systems on Russian territory
No but they did attack Russian territory with other weapons, and Russia didn't retaliate by attacking decision-making centers in Kiev like they promised, so they lied.
>that isn't what they actually thought, if they had, then they'd have just abandoned Ukraine as their failed CIA project
Why would they just abandon Ukraine and not foment a guerrilla insurgency there? Did you miss the article about the CIA training Ukrainian paramilitary forces in preparation for the invasion? https://news.yahoo.com/cia-trained-ukrainian-paramilitaries-may-take-central-role-if-russia-invades-185258008.html There is a precedent for this if you look back to the CIA's "stay-behind networks" and Operation Gladio, which was their plan to combat a Soviet invasion and occupation of Western Europe.
>Literally steamrolled Mariupol, Kherson and Melitopol and the majority of Azov battalion
>Not far from Odessa and moving closer
>Most of Ukraine cut off from coast.
Mariupol isn't part of the southern front, it's part of the Donbass, and it wasn't "steamrolled" it was a drawn out siege. And anyway it is a stalemate because the frontline between Russian-controlled Kherson and Ukrainian-controlled Mykolaiv has been static for a long time now. Russia isn't "moving closer" to Odessa like you said, to do that they have to take Mykolaiv (which they tried to do at the start of the invasion but failed). The maps you posted show that the Russians were advancing towards Mykolaiv in February but then pulled back.
>Kharkov already being taken
>Sumy front starting again
>Northern Ukraine is almost devoid of Ukrainian military
>Nearly every military depot, airfield and HQ, East of Kiev has been annihilated, leaving isolated army groups that are harassed and lacking in supplies.
Again, the maps you posted show they aren't taking Kharkov, they pulled back from it. The maps also show that Sumy Oblast is still completely controlled by Ukraine. If Ukraine's military infrastructure is almost completely wiped out east of Kiev, why aren't they just melting away like the Iraqis in 2003?

 No.2299

>>2292
>All of the Russian goals for the operation are achieved
So why are they still fighting
>In 4 months they have gained control of an area around the size of France
France is 210'000 square miles. Donetsk, Lugansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia Oblasts combined are around 40'000 square miles. And where's your source that they're conscripting women now?
>On South Ukraine: on top of most of it being under Russian control outside Odessa
And outside of Mykolaiv and Zaporizhzhia
>HIMARS
This source is just a Russian telegram channel saying they captured a HIMARS, with no photo or video evidence.
>And as I pointed out, Russia is moving in Northern Ukraine again
>>VDV Spetsnaz taking Gostomel airport (NEW)
Do you not know how to read dates? This video literally shows the date when all this footage was taken, which was back in February. This isn't proof at all that the Russians are moving into Northern Ukraine again.
>>Kalibr strike on UKR air force command (Vinnista)
Again, this isn't a strike on a decision-making center IN KIEV, which is what they said they would do. No one said they aren't striking Ukrainian HQs in other areas

 No.2327

>>2297
South Front does daily map updates, See >>2291 as an example of roughly 4-months difference.

 No.2328

>>2299
>So why are they still fighting
Because they're mopping up the internals of the regions and taking the remaining territories they are aiming for, suppressing the Ukrainian military bit by bit, as stated before, using velvet gloves to try and minimize civilian casualties and remove Nazis.
>where's your source that they're conscripting women now?
1) you don't provide jack shit for sources yourself
2) They'd been doing it since December
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/12/30/ukra-d30.html
https://www.rt.com/russia/557750-ukraine-draft-convicts-women/
People literally hide from recruiters to avoid being drafted.
>This source is just a Russian telegram channel saying they captured a HIMARS, with no photo or video evidence
<If its not le based ukrops saying it its not real
Anon, there's literally video and photos of the HIMARS being destroyed and the idea of them taking a HIMARS system after capturing thousands of examples of "Western Aid" in the form of APCs, Artillery, Javelins and more, makes it plenty plausible.
>This isn't proof at all that the Russians are moving into Northern Ukraine again.
Anon I….
>his isn't a strike on a decision-making center IN KIEV
Playing semantics and ignoring the hits IN KIEV that have happened repeatedly, is fucking obtuse denial.

 No.2337

>>2328
>they're mopping up
Seems like they've been mopping up since a few months now, so tell me when does this war end?

 No.2344

>>2337
>circular shitting again
Nah, go fuck yourself and stop playing video games you're confusing your Clash of Clans for real life.

 No.2345

Embedding error.
>>2298
>your point?
<bl bla bla I can't read
My point is made, if you don't understand it, then you're too young for this site
>the only one that brought up the Western press
You literally use their rhetoric, you obtuse tit.
>It was a ruse because they said it was a training exercise up until the last minute
Already explained this, you're incorrect, learn geopolitics better. The idea that something like that is a ruse is fucking laughable to any special operative or experienced politician, but then again Westerners don't tend to think critically and hypocritically take things both at face value, yet can push hysteria about an incoming invasion any moment now, since 2014.
>They had other training exercises in previous years near Ukraine without invading
Because the threat abated or the target of the demonstration hadn't been Ukraine, you nitwit.
>didn't leave as a gesture of good will
No, faggot. They left it as neutral ground, because it no longer has strategic impact on operations, so wasting troops to sit on the island is pointless. The only purpose they'd serve is to enforce a blockade on grain transport routes in the sea, but Russia and Ukraine made an agreement over that, before they left snake island.
>They were closer to Kharkov in February than they are now
They're literally surrounding Kharkov, you're making no sense
>Kharkov is right next to the Russian border LMAO no, you have no perspective of distance on maps do you?
>the Donbass is mostly under control of Russia and the republics no one said otherwise
reallydude.jpg
>If that's true then how are they still fighting
Did you not read the second post you linked, idiot? It literally explains the disunified assaults. Ukraine's army numbers at ~700,000 people against Russias ~200,000 troops committed, yet Russia has lost (according to the CIA) 15,000 troops dead and roughly 3x injured (totaling at 60,000), and Ukraine has 200,000 casualties as of June. Ukraine is losing troops massively, pulling forced conscription, women and condemned criminals, such as rapists and murderers, to fight, in ad hoc units because they literally have no unity and are just tossing troops into a grinder in the hopes of slowing Russia. And Russia has slowed to methodically eliminate this wave of people.
>literally didn't cite anything
sourced, semantics.
>Medvedev said in that link I posted that the "decision-making centers" are the Ukrainian government buildings in Kiev, which they haven't striked
And as I told you, that was said specifically if HIMARS are used against Russian territory
>not an ultimatum
It is a warning of tit for tat.
>why does Russia keep using it as a threat
They said it 2x and the Medvedev thing is specifically in regards to HIMARS, you're intentionally ignoring that.
>they did attack Russian territory with other weapons, and Russia didn't retaliate by attacking decision-making centers in Kiev like they promised
They did and you're just playing semantics, as I've explained for the dozenth time.
>Why would they just abandon Ukraine
Because R&D. Just as in Iran, or S.Vietnam or other countries that did not successfully maintain themselves, or like Afghanistan could never stop the fighting, then they'd pull out their resources so as to not waste them, leaving maybe some sleeper agents.
>not foment a guerrilla insurgency there
<implying that'd work
Anon, this isn't Afghanistan, such groups are not going to survive long.
>the CIA training Ukrainian paramilitary forces in preparation for the invasion
And? The CIA trained forces for Bay of Pigs, and dozens of other operations that failed.
>Operation Gladio
Anon, I literally wrote the effort posts on these CIA operations in /edu/ I KNOW the capabilities of the CIA in regards to such actions and the situation is not the same. This isn't like "Soviet Ukraine after 1945" This is going to be closer to "East Germany after 1945". Not to mention that the "stay-behinds" were only expected to cause strife, and not actually significantly impact things.
>Mariupol isn't part of the southern front, it's part of the Donbass
>Yes it is part of the Southern front, since it is in the SOUTH of Ukraine, and had not been in Donbass control at all.
>drawn out siege
The actual city got taken with high-speed building sweeping, and the only siege had been at Azovstal, you can see it in the video interviews by Patrick Lancaster, WarGonzo and Graham Phillips among others.
>it is a stalemate because the frontline between Russian-controlled Kherson and Ukrainian-controlled Mykolaiv has been static for a long time now
Because Russia has been digging in and rotating forces in preparation, and ahs been creeping on as they do so.
>the Russians were advancing towards Mykolaiv in February but then pulled back.
Because they hadn't taken out Mariupol.
>maps also show that Sumy Oblast is still completely controlled by Ukraine
Didn't say it isn't, I said they're beginning to move in that front again
>hy aren't they just melting away like the Iraqis in 2003
Because it's not a flat desert, and if you recall 2003, they took the cities by bombing them into utter rubble and killing people indiscriminately to eliminate threats fast. As I said repeatedly, Ukraine's army as a unified force is busted, it's not a united army in the modern sense, it's a bunch of loose groups, divisions at most, that fight on their section of the front but have little intercommunication, and cannot fight 1 on 1 in pitched battle and have to rely on ambushes and guerilla tactics, because they don't have the infrastructure or unity to do proper maneuvers.

 No.2356

File: 1660607002609.jpg (66.58 KB, 640x550, dnd57vhu7sk81.jpg)

The big lesson here is to not listen to whatever some weirdo twitter account says, you have to learn to be wise and not notice

 No.2357

File: 1660610889478.jpg (138.08 KB, 960x710, FNw6mI9XEAITmUZ.jpg)

>>2356
Everyone claims that 'rusha sed it'd take Kiev in 3 dayz' or some shit like that, even though only some Russian supporters and NATO PR 'analysts' claimed that.
Russia isn't losing or doing badly and minor losses are offset by the overall gains.
https://southfront.org/us-marine-corps-officer-expresses-admiration/

 No.2433

File: 1663596574339.png (317.92 KB, 480x360, ClipboardImage.png)

ASU-85 Self-propelled gun used by Ukraine. A former exponate of a memorial in Poltava. It´s a desant-VDV vehicle used prior to the BMD series as fire support and transport.
- https://rusvesna.su/news/1663425116
- https://rg.ru/2022/09/19/ukrainskie-boeviki-sniali-s-pedestala-redkuiu-desantnuiu-asu-85.html

A replacement for the ASU-57 of the 1950s Soviet Union, the ASU-85 today can function as second-line mobile fire support or acting as a movable pillbox to reinforce a defensive position and ambushes, the extremely low profile helps. The 85mm gun is capable of knocking out any Russian light armor even frontally, and it can serve an anti-infantry or general artillery role with HE shells. It also has HEAT-FS rounds which could even penetrate the sides of earlier MBTs like the T-62M. Vietnam returned theirs into service back in 2015.

The real problem here is locating 85mm ammunition in Ukraine as their only options are going to be a couple small stockpiles.

 No.2618

File: 1669773845489.jpg (115.02 KB, 578x800, Its OB3R.jpg)

>>2357
Additional analysis from 2 months ago discussing the reason Russia appears to retreat.
https://thesaker.is/some-very-basic-stuff-about-russian-defenses-in-the-smo/


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