[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]

/AKM/ - Guns, weapons and the art of war.

"War can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun." - Chairman Mao
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

Join our Matrix Chat <=> IRC: #leftypol on Rizon


 No.1849

Watching the latest NY shooter video got me thinking, how if at all possible could one survive a mass shooting? The first lady after he got out was doomed. The others seemed to be stuck with normalcy bias for a few seconds.

Is it better to run or to play dead, take cover?
Is normalcy bias bad, better to make a fool out of yourself overreacting to a nothingburger than to stand there in an actual shooting
Should one always walk behind some kind of cover in burgerstan? Seems like it is so common might as well
Daily body armor? Concealed carry without a permit?
Physical fitness is key, you should 100% be able to sprint fucking fast

 No.1850

File: 1652832061113.jpg (94.19 KB, 703x480, 54693-full.jpg)

get a gun, train with it and camp around waiting for mass shooters, if you want experience that is possibly the most ethical method other than shooting an police station.

 No.1852

>>1850
Ok the polcel was outfitted with body armor and helmet and a pretty beefy rifle. Since we cant open carry in my state a handgun would just get you killed against that. So it would be better to just run. But to what degree can cover even help against a rifle with that caliber, would ducking behind a counter or wall even help or would the bullets go right through?

 No.1853

File: 1652832397621.jpg (147.7 KB, 800x532, utoya.jpg)

The latest chinlet shot people several times to make sure they were dead and this is what most fascist terrorists have done in the past decade, so playing dead isn't a very effective strategy but it can work if you're very lucky.

 No.1854

>>1853
Yeah based on what I've seen its always better to run first. I think a great majority of people cant sprint fast either. That way u get shot in the leg or so but you might make it out alive. Also running behind some cover out of the line of sight of the shooter.

 No.1856

>>1854
the only problem with that is my friends and fam are slow as fuck and trying to save them might get me killed if I have some dead weight holding me back and cant run fast enough

 No.1857

>>1852
>with a handgun
get a rifle then, most handguns bounce from a plate, you wanna run that risk in an firefight ?, no, then get a rifle, an scope, train with it, mantain it, go live your life, if you hear an mass shooter shoot him while they are doing their no-breed chimpout from an safe distance, get an drop on them while they are distracted.

 No.1858

File: 1652832990426.jpg (228.84 KB, 704x2422, 1440617165121.jpg)

Most effective strategy is never leaving your house.

 No.1860

File: 1652833649627.png (1.16 MB, 1400x934, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1852
Sounds like a problem with your pistol.

 No.1861

File: 1652833716205.png (432.23 KB, 913x434, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1852
>Since we cant open carry in my state a handgun would just get you killed against that.
Can always get a "better" pistol, like an FN Five-Seven or if you can't afford something so fancy something in 7.62 Tokarev. I imagine some revolvers are good for it too if you want to go Dirty Harold on them but I don't know much about those, and the disadvantages are obvious.
The security guard hit the polcel in his armor, these guns would have put a bullet through it. If there's anything a security guard with a gun should do it's get one of these instead of his Glock.
Another tip is to avoid the trigger happy and nervous cops showing up and blasting you, if you kill a shooter, don't do a securing the area LARP, holster your gun and GTFO.

 No.1862

>>1857
you could have a rifle, but in a non open carry state you wont have a rifle with you when you need it most. Then a polcel who doesnt care about going to jail for life will get the drop on you. Its better to run then if you have a handgun vs a rifle situation

 No.1863

>>1861
do those pierce kevlar body armor/ plate carriers? Does the armor piercing come from the round more or the gun?

 No.1865

>>1862
if an guy is armed, rifle or not, it's best to get out of his field of vision, like fast, do the maximum amount of turns from you and the shooter to make them loose you.
but what i'm seeing is that these shootings need to have an counter ballance, might as well make "comunity services" with some guys around armed with rifles waiting some retard do a shooting sphere to go in and kill and desecrate his corpse to send a messange for the next ones, cuz if no one do that in the US the the mass shootings will grow into an singularity.

 No.1866

>>1850
>/pol/lyp hunting
The scary thing about that is it might even be possible considering how often they announce their attacks online before they happen.

 No.1867

>>1865
I think this would work, but the problem is without someone shooting to give cover the shooter can just take his time to aim and pick you out. I saw that in the christcuck vid too, he was taking his sweet time to aim at anyone running away

 No.1868

>>1858
situational awareness and scanning around outside constantly is good too. It wont help if you're literally the first person in the wrong place at the wrong time, but if you are close enough you might be able to make it out

 No.1869

>>1867
there is an reason no one in history liked to be ambushed anon, shooters use the element of surprise to shoot first.
that is why i say its easier to make a squad to hunt the shooter at moment notice.

 No.1870

File: 1652835443896.jpg (373.94 KB, 1544x2160, all the other kids.jpg)

Don't fall for the normalcy bias meme, if you see a guy decked in body armor and carrying a weapon, don't assume he's a cosplayer or larper, especially if the potential shooter seems anxious or excited.
Most shootings happen in schools or commercial buildings, and I hate going shopping so personally I've got that covered at least.
Almost all of them are "lone wolves" so you don't have to worry that there might be a second shooter working with them, so focus on getting away as soon as possible. This also helps if you want to build a squad (>>1869).
Most of them also last 3-5 minutes so whatever you're going to do you're going to need to do it fast.
Only 4% of the time will an active shooter get stopped by cops or an armed civilian. The rest of the time they leave, surrender or kill themselves.

So basically you should hope you aren't one of the first people shot, get as far away from the shooter as possible and then hide and take cover by putting as many obstructions as possible. Fighting should be a last resort and there's a high chance cops or even other civilians will mistake you for the active shooter.

>A Study of Active Shooter Incidents in the United States Between 2000 and 2013

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-study-2000-2013-1.pdf/view

 No.1872

>>1863
The round does the vast majority of the lifting, although barrel length does affect muzzle velocity, and to some extent so does the mechanism but most pistols are straight blowback. There are graphs with the optimum barrel length around the internet you can find easily and you'll be surprised at some stuff that's suboptimal like the FGC-9. Pistols have a suboptimal barrel length in order to keep them compact so you can always squeeze a little bit more out with more length on the barrel, although check the legality with that stuff if you do mess with it.
I don't know much about armor but I know that these two rounds (7.62 and 5.7) are the exception to the rule for armor rated for pistol rounds. I've seen people say that the reason the Tokarev does so well is because the Russians loved steel core ammunition, and Russian ammo will probably not be coming to America soon so make sure you're careful selecting your ammo. Also these calibres may not be meant to fuck with plates, but you'll have a better chance defeating those plates with something that can defeat lesser armor.

tl;dr: It's pretty much all about the ammo, pick a gun based on the right calibre and make sure to buy quality ammunition

 No.1874

>>1869
>that is why i say its easier to make a squad to hunt the shooter at moment notice.
Anon, what you are describing is the police force

 No.1876

>>1870
>>1870
>if you see a guy decked in body armor and carrying a weapon, don't assume he's a cosplayer or larper
also dont be a /k/oper larper or the shooter will target you first lol

 No.1877

>>1874
hunt him down not suck him off.
you want them dead in a way the next ones will be feel castrated from even trying, unloading one in their face and exposing would do the trick.

 No.1878

>>1870
>fighting last resort
Yeah, might even be fucked if you have a gun.
Chances are they will be wearing body armor so it’s head shot or nothing.

 No.1888


 No.1889

>>1849
>how if at all possible could one survive a mass shooting?
Have your own gun and shoot him first.

 No.1890

>>1889
that did wonders for the security guard in buffalo

 No.1891

>>1890
Did the security guard shoot him first?

 No.1892

>>1891
/pol/cel didnt even flinch

 No.1900

File: 1652923093798.mp4 (3.95 MB, 640x480, moral vest.mp4)

>>1849
>Daily body armor?

 No.1902

File: 1652923407635.png (84.78 KB, 519x211, Nawar.png)

how do normies continue to believe in the police and the glowies when mass shootings keep happening and these fucking /pol/yps announce it online in advance? If the government truly cared about protecting the people they'd be drone striking /pol/yps and not 9 year old girls named Nawar.

 No.1906

>>1852
>pretty beefy rifle
Basic ARs aren't very beefy, it's not like he toted an AKM or FN FAL.

 No.1907

>>1856
> my friends and fam are slow as fuck and trying to save them might get me killed if I have some dead weight holding me back and cant run fast enough

look at how these monsters, these fascist shooters, cause us to reproduce their logic, even in the process of protecting ourselves from them

 No.1909

>>1907
I know it's horrible. Only fascoids would be cowardly and pathetic enough to bring full military gear and bullet proof vests to shoot unarmed civilians doing their groceries. They're pathetic cowardly freaks and should be publicly tortured after surrendering like wimps.

 No.1910

>>1902
they are just coping
they have no alternative to fall back on if their belief in the system fails them

 No.1911

>>1870
good info anon. Yes the normalcy bias is a fucking killer, they happen so fast there's really no time to assess or stand there

>So basically you should hope you aren't one of the first people shot, get as far away from the shooter as possible and then hide and take cover by putting as many obstructions as possible.


I think a good general rule is if you cant see them they cant see you. The only thing is movies make you think bullets are instantly stopped by walls and shit, but they punch right through in real life. You'd need a lot of stuff between you to be safe. But also the dark knight theater shooting, the few people that made it out alive ran right past the attacker when his gun jammed.

 No.1912

>>1902
pigs and glowies conveniently show up when it's all over, and the few times they're on site they just run around outside in circles trying to seem productive

 No.1913

>>1891
the only way the armed guard could have stopped him was a direct shot to the face, polcuck was wearing a ballistic helmet too I think. And headshots in that kind of situation are unlikely.

 No.1914

>>1913
Take out his legs? Besides body armor may be bullet resistant but the impact itself is enough to hurt and could distract him long enough for the mall cop to aim for his face.

 No.1917

>>1911
>The only thing is movies make you think bullets are instantly stopped by walls and shit, but they punch right through in real life.
Depends what bullets. most 5.56 rounds, probably the most common cartridge used in mass shootings nowadays, will be stopped very quickly by barriers, some will even fragment in a couple inchs of drywall. Still it's a good rule of thumb to put as much of a barrier as possible between you and the shooter.

 No.1918

>>1913
Most ballistic helmets offer little protection beyond low power pistol rounds at best. Probably main issue is that the guy was attacked off guard and only had a pistol. I heard that the kid was hit by the security guard in the chest but that the armour stopped it, I would love to know what armour that was and what gun the security guard had. He went above and beyond his calling to shoot this kid though, he was outmatched even if he was a better shot or had more experience in a firefight. To stop the shooter safely you would want to have at least 2 guys with rifles or smgs.

 No.1919

>>1918
If someone was dual conceal carrying sub machine guns to stop the polcel, which ones would be best?

 No.1920

>>1914
When adrenaline is pumping i dont think getting the legs would be too effective if its just a round or two

 No.1921

>>1914
>>1920

You could always shoot the dick if the armor doesn't cover the groin.
No amount of adrenaline can distract from the devastating psychological damage a ruined pp can do to insecure male.

 No.1922

>>1919
Carry one gun. You won't be able to use 2 at the same time. Idk if it's even possible for a civilian to get a license to carry a full auto weapon on their person. If you could then I would suggest a short barreled ar-15 pattern rifle or perhaps even an aks74u or similar gun could be ideal. Both have access to good armour piercing ammunition. You are gonna wanna stick a good can on it so you don't go deaf immediately firing full auto indoors with presumably no ear protection. Subsonics could be even better if they penetrate the body armour and expand or fragment properly at the speeds they are reaching. So maybe something like .300 blackout or hand loaded subsonic 7.62x39. Another concern is overpenetration of barriers. You don't want to kill random bystanders so whatever round you use should also be able to fragment into a safer projectile after hitting a barrier. If you really need your weapon to be light and compact for carrying around on your person for qcb only, and you want more than a pistol, then go for a personal defense weapon. Something like a mp7 or vepyr or the iconic Škorpion vz. 61 machine pistol. However you should be able to penetrate the body armour an active shooter may have. I am not sure what kind of armour most mass shooters used recently. I have heard plates a few times and they are quite common in America now, so most likely these would be level 3 or 3+ plates which would be rated to stop a few rounds of a specific load for 5.56x45 NATO. This armour would pose a difficulty for many small caliber smgs or pdws. However I would imagine if you can get the drop on him then you could incapicitate and kill him with a burst of decently aimed fire even if his torso was shielded sufficiently by his armour. If you have a bit more room like a backpack and this is assuming you are expecting an active shooter for whatever reason, like due to america, then you could bring a short barreled automatic rifle chambered with armour piercing 5.56x45 or 5.45x39 ammunition that you know will fragment disintegrate safely after colliding with obstacles.
>>1920
Depends where it hits and what round. A single round could blow his leg or arm right off or just poke a nasty little hole in him that leads to light haemorraging at worst.

 No.1923

>>1921
Damn. True. Or if you shoot him in the butt he turns gay.

 No.1924

>>1911
From the 2011 Norway attacks:
>Forty-seven of the campers sought refuge in Skolestua ("the School House") together with personnel from the Norwegian People's Aid. Although Breivik fired two bullets through the door, he did not get through the locked door, and the people inside this building survived.

>>1922
>You are gonna wanna stick a good can on it so you don't go deaf immediately firing full auto indoors with presumably no ear protection.
This matter doesn't get discussed often. Tinnitus is a fucking bitch.

 No.1925

while all this rationally sounds very appealing and enticing getting the drop on a mass shooter with some dope armor piercing smg, in reality i'd probably run and hide like a little bitch

 No.1926

>>1922
>short barreled automatic rifle chambered with armour piercing 5.56x45 or 5.45x39 ammunition that you

Would those even work with a smg. Wouldn' the muzzle flash be too much, I thought those rounds are for longer barrel lengths only and smg's only take pistol rounds?

 No.1928

don't go to a "public" place, all of them are designed to make you a sitting duck (usually for police or other state agents) at this point

 No.1929

How often do shooters come in through the main entrance vs emergency exits? Like the dark knight shooter came in through the emergency exit so if you picked the wrong one to run out of you'd be dead. I'm guessing emergency exits are still best.

 No.1930

>>1929
Runaway from the epicenter of the shooting. Don't cower and wait for the shooter to place a nice shot on your spine/organs.

 No.1931

>>1926
5.45x39 functions well out of a short barrel, less so 5.56x45 but it's still used, for example by some American special forces. .300 blackout works pretty well out of a short barreled rifle like an ar carbine or whatever though. The suppressor will reduce muzzle flash and increase the effective length of the barrel somewhat however it will obviously increase the profile of the gun and it may be too long for your purposes even with a collapsible stock.

 No.1932

File: 1653121826887.jpg (54.81 KB, 680x429, FS7pSYCX0AA0xB2.jpg)

Do not try to help the cops deal with a mass shooter.

 No.1953

>>1849
Paul Harrel did a number of videos on this subject actually, here's the first one. TL;DR run. Almost nothing in a grocery store can stop bullets, even things you might initially assume might like shelves and freezers. If you can't run, hide. If you can't hide, then fight back. Side note: playing dead didn't seem to be effective in the buffalo shooting; he double tapped anyone he saw on the ground (minus the white guy at the registers).

 No.1954

>>1932
>go anywhere in the US
>get's shot
>stop the guys doing the shooting
>gets deported for going against the nature of things.
sasuga USA.

 No.1955

>>1953
oh yeah I like this boomer

 No.1956

>>1921
>vid related
>>1888
This
>>1863
7.62x25 and 5.7mm both can pierce soft body armor, up to level 3A, but not plates

 No.1957

>>1956
3A isn't very high. Most mass shooters these days probably have level 3 or 3+ plates

 No.1959

>>1888
They made me watch this for work. (I was a software engineer at one of the big companies)

 No.1961

>is it better to make a fool out of yourself overreacting to a nothingburger or better to get shot dead?
now there's a normie dilemma if i ever saw one

 No.1962

>>1957
How heavy are those things? what are good improvised body armor type objects one could grab on the fly? Like maybe holding something heavy/steel to your chest to while fleeing to potentially stop any bullet if its a small enough caliber

 No.1963

>>1962
Unless you're in a Jackie Chan movie, that's probably a horrible idea. If it's light enough that you can run with it (and probably in an awkward position since you need it between you and the shooter, whom you'll be running from) and large enough to cover a significant portion of your body, it's most likely too weak to stop a bullet.

The one possible exception I can think of would be to pre-scan your workplace for items like this if you work in some sort of industrial setting.

still an interesting thought

 No.1964

>>1962
Depends on whether you go steel or ceramic. They can weigh as much as 9 lbs. a piece and ceramic will weigh about 2/3 of an equivalent steel plate. Neither is easily concealable, people will know you're wearing them. That said, you could in theory get a backpack or laptop bag and hide a plate inside one I guess.

 No.1965

>>1888
Life in the US must be fucking insane.

 No.1966

>>1961
as i was reading the thread i thought about the same, live your life always on alert like a ptsd-ridden war veteran or die thanks to the normielcy bias

 No.1968

>>1953
seems like the vid got removed, and I was just watching it yesterday. Was it a new video?

 No.1972

Apparently, Youtube deleted a year's worth of his videos for no reason. I hope he gets them back, that's a lot of good info that was lost.

 No.1973

>>1972
Meant for >>1968

 No.1984


 No.1987

>>1984
That one's still up. Like I said above, they even made me watch it for a training at work.

 No.1988

Fucking hell, there's been a school shooting in Texas
https://abc7.com/uvalde-texas-robb-elementary-school-active-shooter-district-lockdown/11889693/
Is it worth talking about what children could do?

 No.1989

>>1972
what the fuck?

 No.1990


 No.1991

File: 1653450128431.png (996.49 KB, 1000x1000, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1990
>doesn't even protect your full spine
>leaves the most important vertebrae unprotected.

 No.1992

>>1991
It's still about the same size as a plate carrier, proportionally. Can't be too bad.

 No.1993

File: 1653450801461-0.png (772.27 KB, 1024x768, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1653450801461-1.png (1.38 MB, 1024x773, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1992
Now that you mention it. Why don't vests or plate carriers protect the back of the neck? Only bomb suits do.

 No.1994

>>1993
It's a small and relatively unlikely target. That's usually what a helmet is for, anyway

 No.1997

>>1990
Seems like a scam honestly, wouldn't an actual bulletproof back be really heavy? Carrying that for extended periods might cause genuine long term issues.

 No.2000

>>1997
Maybe for a younger child, but then again, I carried every textbook I had every day because I didn't like going to my locker; can't be that much heavier.

 No.2001

>>1993
Lots of soldiers already leave their normal back plates behind because they're mostly useless extra weight. There's a trade off for the minimum benefits of armor on a place you're not likely to be shot for having more energy if someone does shoot at you. It will probably be more popular if something like exosuits ever get rolled out.

 No.2016

welp had a scare today and in retrospect i woulda died the way things went down. There were bigass bangs that sounded like an ar going off in our apt complex. Then I heard what sounded like women running away. My friend just went down the hall in the middle and vanished like an idiot, i was in the house, my phone was dead and i couldnt even find my glasses after waking up and felt trapped bcuz the apt has only a few exits and i didnt know which one to go down. it turned out to be some domestic nothingburger but holy kek im not prepared.

tldr
loud ass multiple bangs wake me up
friend goes out without thinking to assess first
im stuck in house with a dead phone and no glasses
shit gets louder and i hear some ppl running down the hall
im stuck inside bumbling around kek
friend comes back and just playing nintendo with normalcy bias while im freakin out
my plan was to jump out the 1st floor window but friend is a fat fuck whod be stuck
totally woulda been a sitting duck if it wasnt false alarm

 No.2017

File: 1653720855925.png (769.34 KB, 920x613, scoliosis.png)

>>2000
yeah i carried all my textbooks on a messenger bag every day children now are pussies

 No.2019

>>1990
this is actually kinda cool. Stealth defensive gear like that is dope. Need something for the chest though

 No.2020

>>2019
Just flip the bag around and wear it on your chest. Or if you only need to stop handgun rounds, there's a ton of level 3A rated clothing around, just google bulletproof hoodie for example

 No.2021

>>1854
also being a manlet helps in that your hitbox from certain distance is significantly smaller
Praying for you lank bros

 No.2022

Damn bulletproof gear is expensive, guess surviving shootings is only for porkies. How practical would it be to get a shield for home defense and shooting from the sides?

 No.2023

>>2000
Damage to the spine is accumulative. If you don't feel it now you will feel it later.

 No.2024

>>2022
Dude you can buy a IIIA vest for like $250 and it has the same protection as a shield while also being concealable and you can run with it.

 No.2060

>>1972
Looks like they're all back, rejoice

 No.2072

File: 1654387007950.png (1.11 MB, 1127x1920, 1654370911332.png)

cant wait until wearing ballistic helmets in public becomes normalized


Unique IPs: 35

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]