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 No.1822[Last 50 Posts]

Let's see
>Guts is a low ass commoner bastard born from a corpse, meant to die, raised in a hellish world (that's literally just the same as our own before Guts encounters any actual demons) so harsh and cruel he likely has severe PTSD by the time he's 15
>Best friend Griffith is a social climbing piece of shit who has to murder and scheme to almost make it to the top, even then the ruling class tells him to go fuck himself and he has to sell his soul to the devil and murder all his friends to finally make it
>The ruling class are mostly monsters; the King is a pedophile nut that tries raping his own daughter, the "nicest" nobles were wrapped up in a brutal inquisition
>The whole world is ruled by an impersonal, most amoral entity created by human will but superseding all humans, controlling their lives based on it's own whims which are of course encouraged by the worst human impulses
>The thing everyone worships is literally evil itself
>Even the leaders of the apostles are pawns of the Market, err…."Idea of Evil"
Fuck it
The godhand are the bourgeoisie
The apostles are the petit bourgeois
Fuck yea

 No.1823

….You’re all faggots

 No.1824

>>1823
well I can't stand reading or buying manga, and I am not gonna watch the horrible anime adaptation

 No.1825

>>1822
>>The whole world is ruled by an impersonal, most amoral entity created by human will but superseding all humans, controlling their lives based on it's own whims which are of course encouraged by the worst human impulses

liberal storytelling

 No.1826

>Reposting from a leftypol thread on Berserk:

Berserk has flaws, yes, but anything so ambitious is bound to, and none of them come anywhere close to detracting from its well deserved status as a masterpiece. Berserk, though very definitely seinen, does have some small shonen trappings such as Isidro, Schierke, and (perhaps most divisively) Puck, as well as an intermittent stream of puerile jokes, and (I'll get into this later) its edginess, but even if overused at times these serve to expand the range of the story, rather than allowing itself to become too po-faced to feel believable (like FotNS, for instance) without feeling clumsy (like many of FMA's gags).

All of the characters evolve repeatedly and massively over the course of the story, except for Griffith, which drives some of the prime themes; about greatness, dependence on or independence from others, having goals versus merely living, the nature of the human psyche, and of human culture through the lens of human imagination. The fights and battles, while they make up the bulk of pagecount, many of the pivotal moments, and are gripping material, are also accessory to development that occurs while characters travel, meditate, and converse. Perhaps equally important to characters and events in the story, is the world and the increasingly strange things that fill it; a land that is at once wild and brutal even before Fantasia or Eclipse, then increasing peeks into the world of the astral are conceptualized and realized on paper by Miura with an imaginative serenity and nightmarishness matched by few artists.

As to a decline in quality? That is a common opinion, and one I would agree with to a limited extent, especially post-boat. But (assuming this isn't bait, which it probably is) your placing it at the Golden Age arc is unusual even for cynics, when the most popular arc (both at the time, and in retrospect for most discussions I see today from the middlebrow "Star Wars peaked w/ ep. V" crowd) was Lost Children. As for the expansion of the cast, it was necessary to buttress themes of personal healing and trust for Guts, similarly to what happened in the Golden Age, but with the added point of his learning to build up the people he surrounds himself with to become his equals, and attempt to secure his victories in some lasting way.

Now, as to edginess. I named Berserk as an example of something that has depraved content without feeling trashy not because it uses that content for some purpose (which it does), but because it is thematically unapologetic about it. For instance, as visceral and ruthless as some of the content in FMA, Monster, Now and Then Here and There, and Crest of the Stars is, without being trashy/edgy either, they included such content specifically to condemn the behavior that leads to it, pointing toward a future where it can be stopped, as the overall tone of those anime was distinctly, er… Moralfag-y. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is an easier and more appealing type of story to write. Berserk uses extreme content to paint a portrait of characters, situations, and worlds that could not be adequately realized with more restraint, not just to offer moral commentary or judgement on them, but sheerly to portray them for their own sake. In this respect, I would describe Baccano! and Garden of Sinners as similar to Berserk.

 No.1827

>>1826
This isn’t bait dude, I honestly love Berserk, it’s pretty much the only manga/anime I still like (okay, JoJo is great and FMA was great but Berserk sands above). Just wanted a thread to analyze my favorite series.

 No.1828

>>1827
This isn't a response to your OP, its a repost of a lengthy rebuttal against a rather acidic ttack on Berserk a few months ago that I happened to save.

 No.1829

File: 1608528872118-0.gif (6.82 MB, 900x676, grinch.gif)

>>1824
1st anime was actually great (particularly the music), though it only covers the first major arc. Sadly, later anime don't even measure up to 6th-gen vidya adaptations.

>>1825
Liberal storytelling would be if "human nature" was eternally fixed, and struggle against it was futile.

>>1826
>tfw someone reposted my oc
Another section, perhaps more relevant to OP's argument:
>Pre-Eclipse vs. post-Eclipse are different, and part of a larger arc for Guts:
&ltChildhood: Turned into a ruthless merc, won't let others near him, no ambition beyond swangin' his sword & shishkin' d00dz
&ltBand of the Falcon: Learns to enjoy the company of others
&lt3rd duel w/ Griffith: Decides to pursue something higher, looking inward spoiler: This was the wrong choice
&ltRescue arc: Reconnects with his friends, but regresses and stagnates
Eclipse
&ltDark Swordsman: Devastated, but forced to improve again, though he turns completely inward to do this
&ltRebirth: Forced by Casca, then protecting her, to trust others with more than his own life
>At that point, Guts has more than come full circle. He is compelled to advance not only himself, but others around him, to make a permanent dent in the world. This is where the common love of the series by fascists (and accusations of fascism) falls flat, because to this point the moral of Berserk has been that only your own strength can protect you from the ravages of the world, with protecting the weak an ultimately pointless task at best. Beyond it, however, the moral of Berserk shifts to the need not only to make yourself strong, but to transmit that strength to those weaker, and make them strong. This is also where the disconnect from Griffith's false utopia lies, with his regimenting people into followers.

>This is where the common love of the series by fascists (and accusations of fascism) falls flat, because to this point the moral of Berserk has been that only your own strength can protect you from the ravages of the world, with protecting the weak an ultimately pointless task at best. Beyond it, however, the moral of Berserk shifts to the need not only to make yourself strong, but to transmit that strength to those weaker, and make them strong. This is also where the disconnect from Griffith's false utopia lies, with his regimenting people into followers.

 No.1830

>>1822
I just read it during the quarantine and love it too. "The Golden age" and "Lost Children" were my favorite arcs. When I was reading "Black swordsman" I didn't expect Berserk to evolve this much, next arc completely blew me away.

 No.1831

>>1830
Everything changes when you see Guts walking away crying after killing the Count

 No.1832

I dunno OP I think it's not so much that demons sacrificing humans is a metaphor for capitalist exploitation and more that exploitation is justified by the more general logic of human sacrifice. The world of Berserk is literal feudalism, and like any other class system it engages in human sacrifice for war and profit without any demons having to be involved.

 No.1833

Berserk is insanely based and is probably the work of fiction that most influenced me over my life. I'll never forget watching the 97 anime when I was 12 at my best friend's house. We watched the entire thing in one night and I was comatose for the next week. I couldn't think of anything else and it just became a part of me.

It's a shame the manga has become so stale and drawn out. Even now that things are happening the years of hiatus and filler more or less destroyed my enthusiasm for new chapters. I've decided I'm literally not touching Berserk until it's finished or Miura dies. Nevertheless, I'm incredibly grateful to have experienced it, and the ambition to create something to match or even surpass it is the driving force in my life.

 No.1834

>>1833
Berserk after the loli witch was introduced is a complete, utter and irredeemable shit. So, you can safely catch up on it until that ark and consider it done.

 No.1835

File: 1608528872667.jpg (589.22 KB, 1920x1080, wtrxymuj82u01.jpg)

>>1834
Pic unprocessed

 No.1836

>>1834
This.
By that point in the story I kind of felt it had turned into your average weebshit.

 No.1837

>>1834
>>1836
Yeah, I'm caught up actually. The sheer inertia kept me going through the "companion adventure" bit but now it's just become too much. It's hard to care anymore because Miura gives the impression that he doesn't care himself, or that he's just out of inspiration and is just buying time to figure shit out.

 No.1838

>>1837
I like the companion adventures, the problem is there’s literally 6-8 months between each and every issue now and it’s hard to be invested in a story when that’s the case; there’s so much time between every issue that you just wanna see something actually happen instead of just character interactions and development and shit. Berserk could have been over by now were it not for constant hiatus.

 No.1839

>>1822
> Is Berserk the most based and redpilled anime
No, but it has good moments.

 No.1840

I feel like Berserk had a good idea but went way too hardcore and gory just for an edgy EXTREEEEEMEEE factor

 No.1841


 No.1842

>>1841
This thread was posted long before /anime/ was created to divide up discussion from a board barely anybody uses to a board that nobody uses

 No.1843

>>1842
whine more, this is an anime thread, hence it goes in anime. The commie waifu thread is older than fucking hobby is and it still got moved there too.
And as for "nobody uses it" anime has a higher PPH than hobby, mostly for threads originally made there.

 No.1844

>>1822
I think this may better belong on anime, but there is already a thread there with Berserk (though lower in quality).

 No.3470

>>1833
> Nevertheless, I'm incredibly grateful to have experienced it, and the ambition to create something to match or even surpass it is the driving force in my life.

I hope I get to see it, comrade.

 No.3471

File: 1608528989664.jpg (100.49 KB, 493x607, guts_elves.jpg)

So Nietzschean! So communist! The author of this Japanese comic must share my political views, otherwise I'd be unable to enjoy it!

 No.3472

>>1840
Did you just read the first 10 chapters or something?

 No.3487

>>3471
>>3472
What’s it like being an utter faggot by choice?

 No.3488

>>3487
Hey man, have you thought about making a YouTube channel, or a "BreadTube" channel as I like to calll them, haha? You could talk about your marxist analysis of Berserk and other Japanese cartoons a.k.a. anime, how Guts is the proletarian and Griffith is the bourgeoisie and stuff. Cool stuff.

 No.3535

Since it wasn't reposted yet

 No.3901

It definitely seems overtly Neitzchean to me but I'm lost as to how you would could it marxist without sounding like a dumbass. The show never really makes much of class conflict in any meaningfull capacity, it's mostly just set in a shitty and unforgiving world. Hell, if anything the politics of the world that Berserk is set in are machiavellian. That suits the world better too imo, needs society to continue on being harsh. Honestly the main character would laugh in your face for trying to make the story about your own preconceptions of the world.

 No.5774

>>1834
Bruh one of the central themes of the story is that being alienated and alone is bad because you get stuck reliving trauma and fighting individual battles. Guts realizing he needs a group of people to work with is so central to the story that it happens twice. The band of the hawk allows him to be part of something bigger than individual fights (until Griffith sacrifices it all for individual personal gain), and the current group looks like it's going to confront and fight the godhand and help fix the world finally.

>>3901
The world isn't capitalist at all so trying to apply Marx to it is kind of dumb, yeah. Histmat doesn't really apply either because of CAUSALITY being actually magic reality warping. You could call perhaps call Griffith a reactionary though because he's trying to revive a dead ancient empire. The series is also very much into great man theory with the vast majority of characters being borderline irrelevant playthings of the few people who can actually affect the story. A lot of the "great man" characters are regular people though, so there is that.

 No.5972

berserk is like the simpsons, good for first few seasons, horse shit afterwards

 No.6325

File: 1615133433001.gif (1.47 MB, 320x240, 1363566047917.gif)

>>1833
>I've decided I'm literally not touching Berserk until it's finished or Miura dies.

 No.6708

>>1824
the old 3 movie adaptation is pretty good

 No.7598

rip

 No.7599


 No.7600

>>7599
>>7598
holy shit

 No.7601

man

 No.7603

>>1834
Well I don't feel so bad that the news now
i thought beserk was one of those tough guy anime? why does it have pedoshit in it

 No.7604

>>3471
Yes.

 No.7605

File: 1621489283173.png (855.83 KB, 1080x762, 75244003_p0.png)

We memed too hard, bros.

 No.7606


 No.7608

rip miura

 No.7609

>>7605
Yeah, Rip.

I didn't even think the quality everyone dipped as much as every says it did post Conviction arc.

 No.7612

Rip, great manga

>>7603
>pedo shit
>Having children in your story makes if pedophilic,
This is your brain on anti porn.

 No.7614

File: 1621524703605.png (1.2 MB, 1071x628, one last time.png)

F

 No.7615

>>7612
>>Having children in your story makes if pedophilic,
nice strawman pedo

 No.7616

File: 1621525567960.png (2.08 MB, 1071x1600, 1621482975059.png)

>>7615
why is femto naked

 No.7617

in before pedo hysterics ruin the thread

 No.7618

>>7617
I was just kidding when I called that guy pedo but his strawman was really retarded
All the other anon did was casually drop the word "pedoshit"

 No.7619

So is Berserk one of the best manga of all time?

 No.7620

>>7619
If not the best, then the most influential

 No.7621

>>1833
>I've decided I'm literally not touching Berserk until it's finished or Miura die
I shared this sentiment until today.

 No.7622

>>7619
possibly

 No.7623

File: 1621532636600.jpg (90.66 KB, 513x556, 1621522081548.jpg)


 No.7624

>>7623
He probably literally worked himself to death. If he had been willing to let his assistants draw more of the manga instead of just minor background details, he might still be here.

 No.7625

>>7624
You're right, it is the assistants' fault for being too incompetent to be trusted with his magnum opus.

 No.7626

>>7625
No it's the fault of the culture surrounding manga creation, how much pressure mangaka are under to work and how people's identities are tied to their art.

 No.7627

File: 1621552148041.jpg (30.77 KB, 308x330, young lad identified.jpg)


 No.7628

I honestly can't feel anything but anger over this. What kind of egotistical asshole strings his audience along for decades and then dies before concluding his story?

 No.7629

https://www.otaquest.com/kentaro-miura-interview-duranki-berserk/
now that the miura has settled, will it finally be completed?

 No.7630

>>7624
Dude he was playing [email protected] every day.

 No.7632

>>7628
George R. R. Martin (some day soon)

 No.7633

>>7628
>ywn read the end of crayon shin chan

 No.7640

>>7633
>ywn read crayon shin chan
i don't think it's even translated

 No.7641

>>7624
>>7625
It sounded like his messed up his constitution from overwork in the 90's, he probably didn't have many assistants back then.

 No.7650

>>7615
It's not a strawman because that's your retarded argument. Presenting someone naked isn't pornography, all it is is just presenting a child in a naked state which can be used to present a theme like innocence, similar to angels being presented as naked babies.
Next time, instead of projecting your guilt of jerking off to cp, think of what you're saying

 No.7651

>>7633
Shinchan and Berserk are actually the same universe. Think about it.

 No.7652

>>7650
you don't even know what that anon was talking about when they said "pedoshit" (or how serious they wer about it)
you were replying to someone who was replying to someone complaining about the witch though
besides I don't agree that just having a naked child makes it pedophilic, at all

 No.7656

/a/'s project the past day: https://files.catbox.moe/7y0mgk.png

 No.7665

>>7656
Hey, that's pretty cool.

 No.7666

looks like they continuing it

https://twitter.com/MRko_aki___/status/1395581370328489985
https://duranki.fandom.com/wiki/Studio_Gaga

it's too much of a cash cow for hakusensha and studio gaga

 No.7667

>>7666
Berserk fans are so desperate they're going to initially see this as a win.

 No.7669

already missing him bros

 No.7677

File: 1621697501525.jpg (64.63 KB, 480x480, 1621631193111.jpg)


 No.7691

File: 1621746635132.jpg (263.99 KB, 1200x1529, 1621745937030.jpg)

Leave Berserk to me.

 No.7694

So lads, how do you reckon Berserk would have ended?eurekaEureka

 No.7704

>>7694
It wouldn't have.

 No.7708

>>7694
Guts was supposed to die

 No.7710

>>7694
guts+skeletor eventually managing to defeat at least griffith, or mb bypass him entirely and fuck up the idea of evil
or if he was as based as some think, literally create a competing narrative with the help of skeletor to replace the idea of evil with something actually good for humans

 No.7711

>>7694
>>7710
>literally create a competing narrative with the help of skeletor to replace the idea of evil with something actually good for humans
Really it's Griffith who is more on track to do this, and it would possibly create a dilemma where Guts and Skull Knight still have a score to settle, but doing so would threaten the new causality and send humanity into despair again. Guts even refers to this in either the most recent chapter or one very close to it, saying that Griffith is intent on becoming a god. Griffith is also of course the only mortal (perhaps the only Godhand) who actually knows about the idea of evil, so there's really no way for Guts etc to pull off this plot point unless Skull Knight happens to know somehow. This might be what Miura meant when he said he thought the lost chapter might have been revealing too much. Put into context, even though it's all bought with huge sacrifices of others, Griffith's plan does seem to be creating a radically different status quo and kindling a belief in good. Of course the fact that Griffith is a complete monster and a literal demon is where the drama comes from.

 No.7714

>>7691
What would be Griffith's tax policy?

 No.7716

File: 1621801754393.png (378.72 KB, 680x451, frog3.png)

Never watched Bersrerk should I watch it now

 No.7718


 No.7722

>>7716
Read the manga. Start at the beginning.

 No.7723

File: 1621802723803-0.png (6.72 MB, 2500x1406, fresh.png)

File: 1621802723803-1.png (5.9 MB, 1406x2500, Griffith.png)

should i get the rest?

 No.7724

>>7722
I dont read Picture books

 No.7725

File: 1621804476379.jpg (391.6 KB, 1069x1600, .1berserk (3).jpg)

>>7724
A picture's worth a thousand words, and words fail describe the artistic mastery of Miura.

 No.7726

>>7724
You're so grown up.

 No.7736

File: 1621891874368-0.jpg (425.92 KB, 1671x1200, ls58ubv0r3f31.jpg)

How will dark souls continue with it's ghost writer dead?

 No.7737

At least Clive Barker is still alive.

 No.7803

>>7711
Griffith still sacrifice humans to the demons "protecting" the humans though.
That's one of the points that I don't see how you reconcile it with "good" unless you mean the greater good.

 No.7826

>>7803
I don't think Griffith is good at all. I just think he's in a better position to replace the idea of evil. He might even be a worse replacement, but the point is the dramatic irony where the heroes try to stop a true monster from incidentally doing something good.

 No.7914

I actually kind of like Schierke's crush on Gutts. I think it's pretty realistic to a degree if the little witch has been living in the woods with her teacher her whole life then meets this big handsome super anti-hero. What sells it for me being more than wish fulfilment pedobait is that Gutts obviously doesn't think of Schierke romantically and probably isn't even aware of her feelings, and to be fair he's had much more important things to worry about. Considering Gutts own experiences getting raped as a kid, his benign relationship with Shierke and his mentorship of Ishidoro really highlight his growth as a character.

 No.7978

File: 1622935001709.jpg (1.15 MB, 1210x1720, stop.jpg)

>>7914
>I actually kind of like Schierke's crush
>guts is a part of wish fulfilment pedobait
pls don't

 No.8234

everyone forgot about miuras death alreadybrocialismBrocialism

 No.8235

>>7914
>monkey boy wants to be like gatsu
>mage loli has a crush on gatsu
i was really hoping for another time skip and see their monkey children raised by fairies

 No.8241

>>8235
Same

 No.9559

File: 1629385619634.png (756.85 KB, 1200x1200, ClipboardImage.png)

So to speak. More like, how much of Miura's death is due to the consequences of his position in the anime industry?

It's well known that the pace of Berserk releases dropped off as the series went on. How much was the commercial success of Berserk a factor? Early on he was only a mangaka, but by 2021 Berserk isn't just a manga series but a commercial institution. On top of drawing the manga, he has assistants to oversee, toy designs to approve, deals to authorize, etc. All the while his health is deteriorating, working himself to death in order to compete with the insane labor demands of the manga industry, not unlike Osamu Tezuka.

Is Miura being lazy and getting addicted to [email protected] just a useful fiction to cover for the insane level of exploitation, the inhuman workload it takes to try and compete in the anime/manga industry?

 No.9603

>>9559
Miura was a victim of the manga industry working mangaka to the bone. The idolmaster memes are a product of him adopting a more reasonable schedule for the level of work he put into each issue. But given the kind of death he suffered, it's likely he was already fucked by that time. Aortal dissection indicates a huge amount of chronic stress. Unless he just walked away from Berk for several years he was probably bound to slowly decline until a major artery just ripped open. And if he had been able to take the time off and recover he may have been able to come back with a better approach and let the assistants do more work on it.

 No.9710

>>9603
>the manga industry working mangaka to the bone
Capitalism strikes again

 No.9920

the youtuber formerly known as cuck philosophy did a video on Berserk

 No.9921

>>9920
I'm glad they changed their Channel name, the use of Cuck ironically or not, is pretty asinine

 No.9928

File: 1631075071111-0.jpg (479.14 KB, 1336x1900, 1631044374957.jpg)

File: 1631075071111-1.jpg (119.43 KB, 334x2000, 1631044392625.jpg)

Miura's assistants ended "Berserk" with a "Sorry my bad bro" redemption

 No.9930

>>9928
BOTCHED

 No.9931

>>9928
>>9930
I mean they aren't Miura, so it's excusable, given that it wasn't their story. Now if MIURA had ended it this way…

 No.9932

>>9928
based, griffith 2 did nothing wrong

>>9931
>Now if MIURA had ended it this way…
The only based thing he did :^)

 No.9933

>>9931
I wouldn't trust someone randomly posting one untranslated page, BUT
<supposedly Miura had finished the manuscript, meaning the story/plot was his, but the layouts and dialogue aren't all his
<the announcement in YA is that they still aren't sure if they are going to continue
So whatever this issue has is Miura's in the broad strokes, and it's not a conclusion.

 No.9937

>>9928
Yeah ok that's not at all what happened. This is the beginning of the interaction they have and it comes right at the end of the chapter. Either Griffith's next move is to leave through the magic highway or he has a conversation with Guts + Casca like on the hill of swords (probably the latter). The last panel mirrors one of the last panels of the Black Swordsman arc, as they are both the first time we see either the Black Swordsman or the White Hawk showing an actual emotion. The difference is with Griffith it's not genuine. It's the last remnant of moonboy as he transforms back into Griffith. The point is that he really doesn't have any emotion left, and the only way he feels anything is when he's effectively being possessed by someone else. With Guts it's a crack in the facade of manliness showing that he really is human after all. Also yes apparently this chapter was mostly Miura's work, with the assistants finishing it up for publication.

 No.9959

Well they announced Duranki is officially canceled, but no news on Berserk. This suggests one of these scenarios:
<It's undecided what's going to happen
<They are going to try to finish it
There's no real reason not to announce Berserk's cancelation if that's already decided. My guess is Studio Gaga is moving on from the manga that was created to train them for Berserk and going to try doing Berserk. They will have to figure out the internal structure of how to organize the team for that, and they may lose some of the artists who may have creative differences. Berserks was always led by 1 person with a clear vision, so pivoting to a team-based structure would be logistically challenging. If they are going to continue it will take time for them to figure out their process and might include a trial run like Miura's prototype for Berserk. Even if everyone at Studio Gaga walks out on the project out of respect (which I doubt would align with Miura's wishes), there's too much money to be made on the franchise (especially now), so it's inevitably going to continue. We might see some kind of spin-off or flashback arc before a continuation of the story. It would be appropriate timing considering the parallel between the end of 364 and the end of the Black Swordsman arc pointed out here >>9937

 No.9995

>>9937
>Also yes apparently this chapter was mostly Miura's work, with the assistants finishing it up for publication.
Based, the only based thing miura did is real and cannon
I can't wait for the adventures of new griffith not doing anything wrong

 No.10026

>>9959
imo berserk is way too big and profitable to just be cancelled

 No.10031

>>10026
>[popular anime] is too big and profitable to be cancelled
All things must come to an end some time. A sequel series is out of the question for this manga and the story doesn't have any place left to go really.

 No.10033

>>10031
>>10026
The story is just before shit's about to get real and the creator dying has made it even more notable. The IP owner will want to make more, even if it's just a spinoff showing Rickert getting trained by Silat in whatever's left of the Kushan Empire. Honestly that might be an even more marketable story, much more shonen-like.

 No.10046

>>10033
>story is just before shit's about to get real
Really? And what would be the path the story could take from the most recent chapter?

 No.10515

What made something so grim-dark as Berserk different from as generic edgy anime that came after it? Why is it that, despite the horrifying scenes portrayed, it doesn't come off as unnecessary graphical and fuck up?

 No.10520

>>10046
spoiler obviously
The main 3 characters have all just met up for the first time in like 20 IRL years, and Guts has been preparing to fight Griffith. Miura himself said that their conflict was about to flare up again. The build up at the point where Miura died is implying that the story is approaching the climactic arc, with loose ends beginning to tie up and the stakes of the conflict being reinforced.

>>10515
<Miura wisely put Puck there from almost page 1 to signal to the audience that you're supposed to see the violence and go "wow that's fucked up" instead of "wow that's cool"
<The horror takes a massive toll on all the characters, especially the dark and edgy protagonist when normally those guys are just psychopaths.
<All the horrors happen because characters are driven to despair which gets spelled out in the lost chapter by the IoE, with the violence being played for pathos not for how cool it is. The point of the violence is that many characters choose to retreat to solitude and despair rather than accept that bad things happen and take the bad with the good. All the villains choose to sacrifice other people as a coping mechanism, while the heroic characters choose to put themselves on the line to protect others (and each other).
<Guts' character arc over the series as a whole is about realizing that fighting his battles alone and for vengeance causes him unnecessary suffering and that finding a family can heal him and make him stronger than he ever could be alone (which some fans bitch about because they're just there for the violence and edginess)
<The contrast between people's antisocial destructiveness and the healthy relationships serves the purpose of hammering home how important it is to have healthy attachments rather than abusive or exploitative ones.
<The fact that characters who have been through the things that Guts and Casca have been through shows that people can overcome great horrors and trauma. Griffith was always a bitch. The eclipse would have played out the same way if he hadn't been tortured and driven to despair. He always had the Crimson Behelit and was always going to become Femto. If Guts stayed or left it wouldn't have mattered. If Griffith didn't freak out and fuck Charlotte it would have played out the same. The whole thing about his broken body is a distraction from his openly admitted ambition and view of his followers as mere tools. Griffith becoming disabled is about contrasting how his followers' concern for his wellbeing against his disregard for theirs, and for heightening the drama of his ascent to godhood.

 No.10525

>>10520
>spoilers
So essentially an attempt at a final battle.

 No.10526

>>10520
>10515
>how important it is to have healthy attachments rather than abusive or exploitative ones.
Man do I really resonate with this.

 No.10624

>>9920
This his video of his got me into Berserk, I just finished the Golden Age arc, and I was blown away. It was one of the best things I ever read. How does the series fare from now on?

 No.10625

>>10624
I personally liked the arc where guts gets his armor. A lot of people hate the magic loli but thats where dark souls gets all of its inspiration. I actually quite liked the tone change from dark brooding bloody religious warfare to classical high fantasy.
The holy see arc was a little long for me, but I haven't actually read berserk past the first reading.

 No.10626

>>10624
Different people have different opinions. IME it's mostly the "WOW so edgy and dark!" people who don't like it. If that video got you into it keep going. The Golden Age is basically the prologue to the "real" story, and while the rest arguably doesn't reach the same heights as The Golden Age, it gets more mature and sophisticated in every respect in general. Just don't expect everything to build to a big climax like in that arc (yet) because Miura fucking died before he could get that far. His team may pick up where he left off, but as of now that's unconfirmed. The way it is now can work as an ending but there is obviously more that was intended to happen.

Given the final chapters Miura worked on, particularly with the themes of Guts' battles catching up to him and his body starting to deteriorate, relying more on his friends, it would be a serendipitously poignant parallel to the reality behind the manga for Miura's assistants to finish the story.

 No.10627

>>10625
People also complain about what happened to Puck but I unironically love it. He was the morality pet and voice of reason when he needed to be, but once Guts no longer needed that from him, he didn't need to do that any more and could just be one of the boys. It may be "flanderizing" the character but it's a reasonable way for him to grow.

 No.10628

>>10625
>A lot of people hate the magic loli
All of the side characters are important for Guts' character development and serve their own purpose in the story. Shierke is great and an excellent contrast to the characters who went through the trauma wringer. Especially next to Farnese as her pupil she shows what somebody can become when shielded from harm and given what they need to flourish.

 No.10629

>>10627
puck was only needed to guide them to the final arc and I guess comedic relief. comedy is hard to come by without him and monkey boy.
also he became an icon or mascot, so I suppose it would just be plain dumb to axe him.
my only gripe in the end is the party got too big. like wtf is the point of the mermaid? worst character.

 No.10630

File: 1633572629842.jpg (160.46 KB, 619x849, berserk_83_014.jpg)

>>10624 (me)
>>10625
>>10626
The dark and broody atmosphere is cool and the action is great but what I really love about the series,besides the Art of course, were characters and the imagery used to in conjunction with the dialogue. My two favorite chapters in the Golden Age arc is "Campfire of Dreams" for the simile of everyone in the Band of the Hawk, Or Falcon, bringing their dreams together under Griffith's massive dream like bringing small flames together to create a massive inferno. And the other being the chapter that Miura retconned out of the story, "The god of the Abyss". Not only for giving insight into Miura's idea on the nature of the world of Berserk, but also how it characterized Griffith.

 No.10631

>>10630
Yeah one of Miura's great talents was as a writer but that tends to go somewhat understated because of the focus on the art. He knew how to convey a lot with just the images and how to use dialogue to really punctuate things.

>>10629
> like wtf is the point of the mermaid? worst character.
Hard to say since there's not that much story yet. She contrasts the other characters in their origins though.

Guts was raised in outright abuse and struggle, and has to re-learn how to survive in healthy relationships.
Casca had the Band of the Hawk but was traumatized by a specific bad experience that fucked her up.
Isidro grew up on the mean streets figuring things out for himself but learning a sort of "toxic masculinity" as a result. He's mentally well but a bit maladjusted socially.
Shierke grew up with a strong nurturing environment, but also one that was stifling to a degree, so she can form healthy attachments.
Farnese grew up a child of privilege, benefiting from systemic power, which taught her to be an abuser, but she was able to get better (IMO one of the best parts of the story).
Serpico grew up an enabler who has little personality to himself initially but becomes more independent over time.
Isma by contrast is practically a feral child, who spent the character-relevant part of her youth away from people, so most of these dynamics are foreign to her and she is a bit of a "blank slate" so to speak. This is partly why she appears irrelevant IMO – what makes her different is not having much going on in this respect. But we don't know yet what Miura was going to do with her and the rest of the party. My guess is it's another angle to explore relationship dynamics and she and the others would continue to grow based on their interactions. I already see a bit of this in the moment where she jumps into the sea to save Isidro, in something of a role-reversal which she's completely unconscious of because she hasn't internalized society's expectations. I think there would have been more moments for her to shape Isidro's views of women for the better, among other things.

 No.11051

My thoughts on an ultimate resolution to Berserk:

I kept expecting Miura to do a chapter where he pulls the rug out from under us regarding Griffith's new world order. You know, everything looks happy and good on the outside, but then we get a chapter where one of the prostitutes gets rounded up by demons and brought to the rape pits where they breed the babies that the demons in Griffith's army eat. Instead he's directly contrasted with the Kushan empire where the emperor is sewing women together to make artificial demon-enfusing wombs to possess human fetuses with demon souls and eradicating the entire midland population type shit. Kushan creates mindless monster slaves, while Griffith has knights that possess degrees, or at least the capacity, for gallantry. I think it all was exactly what it looked like: an Arthurian utopia where all the previous society's ills were eliminated and the ideal Feudal society is created. The Fisher King is on his throne, everything is prosperous, the aristocracy deserve their positions, and the knights are just as strong and gallant as the stories say.

There've been hints that this has happened before in the past. IIRC, the Skull knight has been implied to be Gutt's predecessor in some capacity, and that the last golden age ended in a conflict between that era's legendary knight and the emperor.

I think what Miura could have been building towards was that causality was at the root of this cycle, and that Femto/The Millennium Falcon are part of the deal. You have 100 years of darkness, and then you have 100 years of light, but as long as causality reigns, it goes on like this forever. From the changes that Gutts has been going through as a character, I think that parallel's Griffith's changes too. Gutts could get revenge on Griffith, but what would be the point? It's not the same Griffith, and that ultimate act of evil gave birth to the new age of prosperity. It lasts as long as Griffith does, and Gutts has to choose between momentary utopia or the chaos of self determination where everyone has free will and the possibility both for escaping the cycle or succumbing to it.

 No.11066

I genuinely believe berserk has the best anime ending theme of all time.

 No.11088

>>11066
Best OST in general tbhimofam

 No.11096

>>11051
Griffith's new order isn't a utopia. When he merged everything he put the whole world into the same basic situation that Guts was in during the Black Swordsman arc. Basically everything is the Interstice now. We see what Falconia is like and how everything is great there, but outside of it people are constantly under threat. If there was going to be a rug-pull moment my money is on Rickert going with Silat to the (former?) Kushan Empire and seeing the devastating results of Griffith's actions. We've already seen this to a degree with Guts' party although it doesn't exactly stand out to us because for Guts things haven't changed much.

>I think what Miura could have been building towards was that causality was at the root of this cycle

I think that's very likely. Especially given how much Miura has been emphasizing the physical toll on Guts. I would say 363 and 364 have been really emphasizing what kind of life Guts could have if he walked away from his dedication to just fighting Griffith and the apostles the way he's been doing. His current path is self-destructive (to say nothing of its effects on other people), and it's not even necessarily going to solve the problem. The parallels being made between Guts and Skull Knight are well developed at this point. It might be dramatic and tragic for Guts to simply follow in his footsteps, but that wouldn't fit with the whole thing about Guts (and Casca and moonboy) being somewhat outside of causality's influence. How they would do that is another question. Hopefully Miura at least left notes on it.

>that ultimate act of evil gave birth to the new age of prosperity. It lasts as long as Griffith does, and Gutts has to choose between momentary utopia or the chaos of self determination where everyone has free will and the possibility both for escaping the cycle or succumbing to it.

I think it makes more sense for the way out to be to pull more and more people out of the cycle of causality (which also parallels cyclical trauma) by growing his party, with he and his comrades being a sort of crack in the system that slowly spreads and gets bigger until enough people embrace his alternative worldview.

It doesn't get a lot of emphasis largely because the main thing is in the "lost" chapter that Miura redacted but Guts is unknowingly the antithesis of the Idea of Evil. Most people in the setting believe that the world is basically a bad and dangerous place which is ultimately what empowers the Godhand and apostles. Guts and his party have learned to take the bad with the good instead of justifying the bad and becoming attached to it. The same logic of the Idea of Evil is what underpins Griffiths (not) utopia: the sacrifice at the Eclipse was evil but necessary evil. People suffer and want reasons for their suffering, but justifying suffering begets more suffering. While Falconia is a nice place the outside world is under constant siege by demons. It seems justified because it's seen as the necessary cost of having Falconia. The people living there might be safe and taken care of, but they still live in fear (particularly of the outside), so they remain childlike and stunted by Griffith's protection.

Contrast Guts and friends, who do not live in fear or excuse the suffering of the world, but accept it as part of life as a struggle. Unlike Griffith's subjects (who live in subservience to Falconia), they are free to self-actualize because they recognize and struggle with the suffering in the world, instead of believing it's necessary and merely accepting how things are. And I think that's what Miura was going for ultimately. The Godhand and apostles accomplish what they do (as do the human tyrants) because the people are stuck repeating the pattern believing that it's just inevitable. But it's not so much "belief" in itself as it is acting accordingly. While most of the people just go along with Evil as if it's unavoidable or necessary, Guts struggles against it. The fundamental difference between Guts and everyone else (until he meets other people like him and forms his party) is not that he's strong of will or muscle, but that he puts up meaningful resistance. His will and muscle help, but the world is full of people who are similarly strong but don't struggle against "causality." Is Guts special because of magical reasons since Skull Knight saved him from the Eclipse or is the real difference that he's actually willing to fight back now that he's seen what's behind Evil and knows that it's not inevitable? Maybe "causality" is merely a collective delusion or a self-fulfilling prophecy. That is what the lost chapter suggests.

 No.11118

>>11096
>Griffith's new order isn't a utopia.
Oh, that's true. I guess I should have been more specific, since it's not the whole world, but rather Falconia specifically. I think it's more a Utopia from the perspective of the average person. In the lead up, we see that the feudal nobility and clergy are basically entirely corrupt, literally feeding peasants to monsters, funding endless wars, torturing and executing "heretics," etc. Kushan invades and is somehow even worse, and then they're delivered by a prophesied mesiah that protects them from legendary monsters inside his glittering, supernatural fortress. Outside Falconia things are even worse off, but for the lucky ones rescued by Griffith and living in his magical city, things couldn't be better–for now, anyway.

>It might be dramatic and tragic for Guts to simply follow in his footsteps, but that wouldn't fit with the whole thing about Guts (and Casca and moonboy) being somewhat outside of causality's influence.

I agree. It seems like the whole drive of the Berserk Armor plot thread seems to be that Gutts is coming to grips with the limits that his anger can bring him to. At first his fury was the only thing keeping him alive, but now he's reaching both physical and psychological limits as to what his barely contained anger can accomplish.

The Skull Knight and Zodd might be an important parallel here. IIRC it's been implied that Zodd and Skull were rivals during Gaiseric's empire, and have basically been fighting off and on up until the present day. Speculating here, but I would theorize that Skull Knight was in a similar position to Gutts at one point, and had to choose between ending the cycle or giving into his desire for vengeance/fighting Zodd, and chose the latter. The Skull Knight is powerful and no longer ages, but it seems like it's basically an Alphonse Elric type situation where his personality resides in his armor, which I think is supported by him eating Behelits and when he pulled out the behelit sword.

That's what the narrative drive seemed like to me anyway, either sacrificing his humanity to keep chasing vengeance, or else choose another option.

 No.11119

>>11118
>At first his fury was the only thing keeping him alive, but now he's reaching both physical and psychological limits as to what his barely contained anger can accomplish.
This is also how people heal from trauma in real life. They end up with coping mechanisms that keep them going through it, but once they no longer need them they have to learn to move on and let go.
>Speculating here, but I would theorize that Skull Knight was in a similar position to Gutts at one point, and had to choose between ending the cycle or giving into his desire for vengeance/fighting Zodd, and chose the latter.
It would fit. They already made it clear that they are strongly paralleled. I think it may not truly be a "choice" though. In practical terms yes SK could have chosen differently, but that might require him to know things he doesn't, like the true nature of causality. Griffith is the only character confirmed to know (in the dubiously canon lost chapter). It's possible that Guts could learn this from him, giving him the final piece. Guts is already on this path, however. It's not specified in SK's backstory but there's no indication that he had the kind of bonds that Guts has been making with his party that keep him tethered to something besides his coping mechanism and trauma. They're enough to push him in the right direction but maybe not enough by themselves to actualize his potential to break the cycle. Maybe Guts can even do it without understanding, but there definitely seems like some piece missing there. It can't be as easy as just walking away. That would break the cycle for him, but not the actual cycle, unless there's just some ripple effect like I suggested in my other post.

 No.11334

*insert inevitable 'le real Black Swordsman' joke*
https://archive.ph/TlHrO

 No.11385

>>11334
I don't know why he was nicked name to be the "black swordsman". You inevitably invite comparisons, which SOA cant hold up to against Berserk. Especially if you compare Kirito to Guts it is like comparing a drawing of a four year to a DaVinci. I guess it's fine knowing that SOA tends to be for people just getting into anime, where you don't know what is and is not quality.

 No.11386

>>11385
Correct
>SOA
Is this a joke of accidental misspelling of SAO.

 No.11388

>>11386
>Is this a joke of accidental misspelling of SAO.
What ever option makes me look like less of an idiot.

 No.11562

File: 1637636366429.jpg (85.43 KB, 540x589, morda.jpg)

What the fuck guys, I just finished the series and nobody told me about the hot big titted goth witch?

 No.11563

File: 1637636478781.mp4 (188.17 KB, 480x360, Go to gulag.mp4)

>>11562
>big tiddie
She's a kid you fuck

 No.11564

>>11562
because (up to where Miura got) she's a minor character who's only relevant to make Isidro thirsty and make Shierke feel like she belongs

 No.11565

>>11563
ok buddy she is at least 17.

 No.11567

File: 1637674953854.jpg (82.08 KB, 500x500, 37gexr93kbx41.jpg)

>>11565
You're correct in this instance, given the horror of Berserk itself as a setting, but still

 No.11569

>>11563
so what

 No.11689

File: 1638170956853.png (299.8 KB, 600x568, schierke.png)

>>1834
>loli witch
In what universe is Schierke a loli? And besides, she is one of the best characters in the series. If you're going to bitch about characters, then whine about Isidro or Isma Even though I don't they are bad characters per se just some of the weakest.

 No.11691

>>11567
Should've been a picture of Jotaro (17) tbh
Giorno still looks kinda like a teen

 No.12074

My personal take on where the series is going and how it’s going to end. What I think will happen is that something will cause Griffith to reveal his true nature to Princess Charlotte and rest of his closest human followers. This will cause Griffith, to maintain still have his kingdom but to lose any relationships he has cause him to be alone. The one thing Guts has over Griffith at the end of the Golden Age is people who care about him. When Griffith sacrificed the Band of the Hawk, he didn’t just sacrifice their bodies but all the emotional connections he had with them. He can never reveal his true self to the humans who follow him because most surely, they would hate him. The apostles who follow him only view him as their master and could never become close to him. His only kinsman are the fellow members of the god hand, who I doubt have close ties with each other and only carry out their own desires. The only person who truly understands Griffith is Guts, and we all know how he feels about Griffith. And because of this rejection by his closest human followers, he will have break down and destroy his own Kingdom.
Also, an another point I would like to make is related to the end of the conviction arc, where those who clung to the church and Father Mozgus died while those who fought for their own survival or ran to keep on living survived. This reminds me of the human inhabitants of Falconia as they cling to Griffith to save them from the Kushan and all the Spirit World creatures. If Falconia falls all those who clung to Griffith would most likely perish, while those who struggle to main there own lives against the Kushan and the Spirit World creatures would survive.

 No.12405


 No.12841

im so pissed off well never see it end
no i dont care about whatever miura's assistants or whoever the fuck else make, berserk will remain unfinished no matter what they do

 No.12854

File: 1644210805656.png (715.73 KB, 949x661, guts.png)

>>11066
Hell yeah.

 No.12860

File: 1644211983472.png (173.45 KB, 480x480, ClipboardImage.png)

>>11689
I assure you, naked Shierke getting a faceful of full-frontal Guts is essential to the plot.

 No.12863

File: 1644213091198.jpg (138.47 KB, 1074x889, Child Support Time.jpg)

I hope they pull a Samurai Jack TBH

 No.12876

>>12860
>I assure you, naked Shierke getting a faceful of full-frontal Guts is essential to the plot.
It kinda was important as it demostrates that Farnese is only one capable of taking care of Casca.

 No.12878

I know you post here Jonas Ceika CCK or however it's spelled.

 No.12895

>>12878
He admitted to posting on here here a while back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAt7gQmIEBI&t=4385s

 No.13041


 No.13042

>>12074
I think Griffith is well aware of the situation and the precarity of it. He definitely has some kind of plan, and Guts is probably right that he won't be content no matter how high he rises. My theory was always that he wanted to draw as many people to Falconia as possible to do yet another sacrifice, perhaps to usurp the Idea of Evil. Whether that works is a whole different question. The ending of the manga so far indicates that Griffith really has lost his emotions so maybe he no longer has the ambition needed to see through his plans to the end.

 No.13826

Elden Ring brought twitters attention to Berserk

 No.13827

>>13826
At least the name is becoming more common with Western audiences

 No.13828

>>13826
>his actual counterpoint towards Twitter npcs calling Berserk problematic is that there are more important things to be worried about, like black people robbing stores in LA and their pitbulls attacking cats
oof. at least he's a dio fan

 No.13835

>>13828
And he's against Ukraine simps

 No.13837

>>13826
>>13828
Lol. This is why above average places ban youtuber shit.

 No.13838

>>13837
>above average places
Yeah, yeah sure, and that's the reason you're posting here… oh wait. Sage

 No.14776


 No.15627

I think part of the appeal of Goblin Slayer's edginess and his single-minded hunt to destroy them is kind of echoing the demon-slaying of Gut's as he slays his way to the top to reach Griffith and the rest of the hand.

 No.15692

File: 1655169086565.jpg (360.95 KB, 1440x1962, lezczbz93o171.jpg)


 No.15693

>>15627
Berserk has been setting up for a while that Guts needs to find another way to deal with his problems. The single-minded demon slaying was portrayed pretty much from the start as not good, like an addiction Guts needed to be rehabilitated from. The last issue emphasizes that despite his power level, the sheer amount of punishment is starting to break him down physically to the point that without the armor he struggles to wield his weapons. It's also implied that he needs to find another way to handle Griffith &co. Doesn't Goblin Slayer just treat mercilessly exterminating the goblins as unambiguously necessary and good? Berserk definitely has its share of fans who don't get the point, so maybe that's the crossover.

 No.15694

>>15693
>treat mercilessly exterminating the goblins as unambiguously necessary and good?
yes,even the literal children are backstabbing bastards in the series,it's litterally just a borderline porn story.

 No.15697

File: 1655219252001.jpg (149.91 KB, 880x960, y2qMxvx.jpg)

>>15693
>essly exterminating the goblins as unambiguously necessary
Yes. As for good… they're monsters of a literal kind, no humanization of the creatures meant to be everything ugly and horrid, like Anime tends to do otherwise. It's kind of refreshing having the creatures NOT be secretly humanized - they're just big pests that have intelligence but no sense of conscience, they care for their children out of necessity, they kill and rape out of instinct, they are just animals for the most part, a marked differentiation from the usual "gobbos" that are just stupid shortstack humans.

Goblin Slayer's obsession is demonstrated as being a subversion, seen as insane by everyone else - he's essentially traumatized to the point that annihilating Goblins is his main motivation because they bring nothing but suffering to people, and that's all he does to an unhealthy degree - But the subversion is that, in being so engrossed he's also very knowledgeable about Goblins and fighting underground, like some kooky neighbor that hunts rats for a hobby.

 No.15698

>>15697
it's not really a subversion when he's being consistently proven correct by the scenario.

 No.15699

>>15697
>>15698
"humanoids who are complete monsters and inherently ok to kill en masse" is a bit problematic inherently. It's worse if the fiction is that they just are that way naturally, because that's just a racist narrative with a fantasy veneer. It might be a bit more justified if they were made to be that way somehow, like a dark sorcerer breeding them as a bioweapon. That's how LotR explains it and Berserk's monsters follow a similar pattern where the monsters are humans who willingly gave up their humanity because they found humanity itself too painful to deal with.

 No.15700

File: 1655224106081.png (1.53 MB, 955x1122, ClipboardImage.png)

>>15698
There are tropes for everything anon, the point is that it subverts the norms of modern fiction that try to make goblins into some kind of demi-human instead of the intentionally monstrous creatures they are intended as, subverting modern subversions. And more important subverting the "obsessed weirdo" trope by making the guy unintentionally someone that focuses on the details and things everyone else dismisses or pays little attention to. If he hadn't been such, the town and farm would be attacked by Goblins unprepared and the lack of Goblin extermination would lead to an infestation that would take many lives, deaths that would go unnoticed because it's not some giant monster or demonic creature rampaging but small-time things that accumulate unnoticed… by everyone but Goblin Slayer.

>>15699
>bit problematic inherently
No it isn't. Goblins are not an allegory for any kind of people, they're not real beings that have real feelings, they are fictional monsters… and decades of media portraying them as cute gobbo grills and pot-bellied scamp have "subverted" this for some time.
>racist narrative with a fantasy veneer.
Not this garbage again. This already got debunked in the LOTR thread by multiple people explaining at length that the only racial allegory to be found are by those people that project their ideologies onto this. The "Russians are Orcs" meme for example is an examples of this liberal thinking that gets accepted because the West has a hateboner for Russia and the USSR, based on decades of Cold War propaganda utilizing Nazi caricatures of Der Untermensch and its referral primarily to Slavs and other "mongoloid hordes". The "Orcs are Black People" approach is similarly flawed, and gets called out because it's just liberal hand-wringing over a caricature that isn't PC to their idpozzed hypocritical brains.
>they were made to be that way somehow
They are, that's LITERALLY orcs and goblins in LOTR among other media - they are the creations of Sauron; evil reflections of man and elf, hell the first Orcs are literally Elves that became such because they became servants of Morgoth and Sauron, literal GODS of evil, that are not tied to mortal concepts of good in evil and evil in good.

In Goblin Slayer this canon of Goblins being some strange monsters that have vaguely humanoid forms is just that - they're monsters from the start, not even a civilization that has its own morals and humanity or something like Dark Elves or Warhammer Orcs - they're literally just overly intelligent animals.
>Berserk's monsters follow a similar pattern where the monsters are humans who willingly gave up their humanity because they found humanity itself too painful to deal with.
Not all of them are such though. Trolls and many of the more fodderish/goblin-type monsters are just that, mysterious monsters. most human-turned-monsters are above those creatures in status and behavior.

 No.15701

Why are goblin slayer fags such cucks?
They literally defend and unironically like a series where pure maidens get gobbed
It's unironic cuckshit

 No.15702

>>15700
TBH I always thought the Orcs were meant to be german.
NTA

 No.15703

>>15700
>This already got debunked in the LOTR thread by multiple people explaining at length that the only racial allegory to be found are by those people that project their ideologies onto this.
Fantasy races aren't inherently racist, but a fantasy race that's inherently evil definitely has racist overtones. It's a setting where /pol/ style race realism is the truth of the world.

 No.15704

File: 1655228261984.png (273.35 KB, 690x506, ClipboardImage.png)

>>15703
>It's a setting where /pol/ style race realism is the truth of the world.
Except it isn't /pol/-style racism coms from false caricaturization, a poor understanding of societal dynamics and pseudo-science. There is nothing to misinterpret in these stories: It's a monster that has no redeeming qualities, nothing more or less. Racial overtones are projection by racist viewers.

>>15701
>defend and unironically like a series where pure maidens get gobbed
<proceeds to ignore the series making sure to see the horrific nature of rape and its divorcement from "le rape doujins"
<proceeds to ignore most of the series focusing on eliminating goblins and their threat
LMAO

 No.15705

>>15702
I mean it makes some sense - ruinously industrious, rule by law and destructive expansionist behavior.

 No.15706

>>15704
>bro it's totally not /pol/ shit
>/pol/ style meme about triggering le libs

 No.15707

>>15704
>the series making sure to see the horrific nature of rape and its divorcement from "le rape doujins"
while the manga kinda does that,the anime direction is litterally shot like an hentai.

 No.15708

>>15706
>/pol/ style meme about triggering le libs
<everymeme is /pol/!
<leftypol doesn't troll libs
Lurk moar.

>>15707
>the anime direction is litterally shot like an hentai.
That's on the anime industry, and even then it's still far too horrifying for anyone that doesn't already have /d/-tier taste.

 No.15709

>>15708
>not liking genocidal might is right power fantasies is lib
I'm not sure about that son, there's plenty of hate surrounding AoT on this here board as well

 No.15710

Ah yes another "We must own the libs even if this just makes us side with libs of a different kind." episode.
Why not read dorohedoro or something that isn't total mediocre bullshit?

 No.15711

>>15708
>Lurk moar.
youre defending a shitty anime that came out recently lmfao

 No.15712

>>15709
>genocidal might is right power fantasies
<projecting liberal interpretations
>AoT
Because AoT is between 2 human factions, Titans may lose their minds but the main characters on both sides are consciously making their choices and justifying their ideologies. Thus you can actually criticize a depiction of genocide because its actually genocide in this case.

>>15710
>We must own the libs even if this just makes us side with libs of a different kind
<If /pol/ likes something that someone else also may like that means they're /pol/
Amazing logic. I guess people better start leaving this site because the majority of /pol/ doesn't support Ukraine and mocks liberals for doing so!
>mediocre
<hurr you can't enjoy something that isn't le art-house!
Also Dorohedoro is not that good either, stop derailing to dick-measure like a teenager about "my favorite sho is better!" when that isn't the object of discussion here.

>>15711
>defending a shitty anime that came out recently
<jumping this hard in rage over a meme and a discussion
LMAO
1) Goblin Slayer came out years ago at this point
2) Your opinion is noted, now do yourself a favor and stop replying if you have nothing constructive to say.

 No.15713

Another thread derailed by channer retards.

 No.15718

File: 1655266459523.png (107.22 KB, 631x431, barbossa.png)

>>15713
Ye best start believin in chans, mate. You're on one.

 No.15720

>>15718
this is an imageboard, "chan" is what retards started calling them

 No.15724

>>15704
I've read the manga it's literally no different than a shindol or asanagi doujin
Unironically kill yourself you cuckshit loving retard

 No.15725

I don't really care that the goblins are inherently evil
Not every evil being needs to be nuanced or be humanized
It's the fact that Goblin Slayer and others always rely on sexual violence against women, or really like to drone on with the fact that women are the ones being killed and brutalized
It's an incredibly bad and sexist way of writing in order to instill a hatred against a villain, or a group of whatever
You ever wonder why they never use the same sexual violence against men?
Instead it's always just men getting quickly killed and that's it, but when it's women they always have to include sexual violence and other shit

 No.15726

>>15725
>You ever wonder why they never use the same sexual violence against men
rather than making the point like this I think it's better to simply say you're tired of sexual violence being cynically deployed in an inane or shallow way, redo of healer meets this criteria of "sexual violence against men" after all (the MC's backstory) but it's in the misogyny hall of fame

 No.15729

>>15725
>>15726 (me)
sorry I'm not trying to do the 4chan thing of nitpicking one small part of your post what you said holds true the vast majority of the time you get these shock rape scenes, especially in shitty isekai manga etc
just wanted to point out that bad writers who thoughtlessly use it with female characters will also thoughtlessly use it with male characters

 No.15732

File: 1655294868294.png (90.42 KB, 200x200, ClipboardImage.png)

>>15725
Broke (Goblin Slayer): Sexual violence against women
Woke (Berserk): Sexual violence against boys

 No.15733

File: 1655310983922.jpg (14.26 KB, 225x224, cw0aryuqg3k21.jpg)

schnoz

 No.15736

>>15724
shindol is way better than goblin slayer even in his weakest of days. At least that shit is interesting.
Although comparing it to a boring ass asanagi doujin is also unfair to goblin slayer.
>>15725
I just find the always evil trope to be boring. Unsurprising things are always less interesting than something that is unexpected. We have reached peak anti-2000's/2010's that liking super man over batman because superman is pure is unironically basic-bitch takes again. Let alone backing a lot of the backwards ass love for always evil races, hatred of high fantasy and magic and other such things.

 No.15766

>>15726
>>15729
Now I have not read the entire manga of Redo, but from what I've seen the sexual violence is so ridiculous that it's borderline comedic
I doubt the MC gets treated to the same degree that the women are
There is also the fact that at some point he turns a male character into a woman (futa) that get's gangraped and set on fire in order to get their comeuppance

 No.15767

>>15766
you're right, the overall focus of the manga is absolutely sexual violence against women, but whether the MC was "treated to the same degree" is basically the central conceit (since it's ostensibly a revenge story). like you said, it kind of loses meaning since it's so ridiculously excessive, but he is shown being raped and abused every day for years(?) and retaining PTSD-like symptoms even after getting revenge later
still that's like 5% of the story tops, with 25% being boring lifeless purely functional plot advancement to set up the next rape scene and the other 70% being said sexual violence
compare with berserk, for example, which actually has some substance outside of its R-rated scenes - an actual fucking setting with interesting shit in it, interiority of characters, gestures towards themes - and (at least more often than not (probably)) the sexual violence in the story has a clear dramatic effect outside of "look how EVIL this guy is": farnese is the question, not the horse
>There is also the fact that at some point he turns a male character into a woman (futa) that get's gangraped and set on fire in order to get their comeuppance
it's worse than that, iirc he grows a dick on a lesbian woman and then has her raped, eaten alive, and set on fire

 No.15773

>>15767
>it's worse than that, iirc he grows a dick on a lesbian woman and then has her raped, eaten alive, and set on fire
oh, fun

 No.15817

>>15724
>I've read the manga it's literally no different than a shindol or asanagi doujin
No
>C-cuck
>U-unironically KYS!!!
Go back to 4chan you seething chinlet.

 No.15818

File: 1655656785823.png (398.55 KB, 475x671, ClipboardImage.png)

>>15720
>Gate-keeping terms used interchangeably
<having nothing to say but vitriol and pants-shitting
LMAO

>>15725
Do link to the post you are replying to.
>It's the fact that Goblin Slayer and others always rely on sexual violence against women, or really like to drone on with the fact that women are the ones being killed and brutalized
<He doesn't know
If you didn't pay attention, Goblins primarily rape women, because they seek to breed and that requires a woman. Thus goblins kill men that they have no use for, and rape surviving women, making it one of their primary reasons for being the monster they are.
>It's an incredibly bad and sexist way of writing in order to instill a hatred against a villain, or a group of whatever
No, no it is not sexism, nor is it bad. You just don't like it, that's not an objective reason, that's your personal feelings. Compare to Redo of Healer - the series has females rape the MC… so it concludes that the MC totally is justified in mind-raping and physically raping his tormentors, that is a sexist narrative.
>You ever wonder why they never use the same sexual violence against men?
Because people don't want to.

 No.15819

>>15818
>muh objectivity
Your opinions are not objective either. Neither is rape "objectively" bad. It's all opinions. Indeed, in reality a lot of animals reproduce through VERY forced copulation (although it's not really rape because the animals don't really have a concept of consent). But that's nature. Fiction is invented, and it's up to the author to decide what to put in the story, especially a fantasy story. The goblins could have simply reproduced like a normal humanoid, or they could spawn from fungus like 40k orks. Making them reproduce by raping human women was a deliberate choice. That much is an objective fact.

Hell, the goblins could have been an all-female race that reproduces by raping human men. This would actually make more sense.
>some species have evolved IRL to be all-female (whiptail lizards)
>a species' own body would be better suited to incubating their offspring
>less incentive for humans to attack you, with little reason to kill anyone
>no need for the victim to end up in goblin lair
> >less risk of attracting rescuers
> >less risk involved from not transporting the incubator by force
> >harder for humans to even find your lairs
>fertility is controlled by the female fertility cycle, so instead of having to wait until female humans start ovulating or trying over and over, female goblins could wait until they hit that part of the cycle to go on raids
And on top of this, female goblins raping men would be a more unusual story and make them seem more alien/monstrous than the kind of atrocities that actual humans have committed all the time throughout history (especially in warfare).

The reality is that Goblin Slayer is just an appeal to sexual fantasies and insecurities and is basically hentai with a pretense of being something else. This wouldn't really be a problem if not for the massive denial of this and the absurd comparisons to other stories that handle similar themes much better.

 No.15821

File: 1655661285458.png (1.67 MB, 2000x1652, ClipboardImage.png)

>>15819
>Your opinions are not objective either
It's not an opinion you dolt, it's the narrative of the story.
>Neither is rape "objectively" bad
Yeah go back faggot.
>a lot of animals reproduce through VERY forced copulation
I'm a bio major specializing in Macrobiology, I know this, i can even name specific examples. Your argument is comparable to the retards saying, "hay look some animals do gay shit too!" and ignore that even more animals commit cannibalism. If you're not understanding the point let me simplify it for you - humans are not ordinary animals, rules of society and ideas of morality and ethics arose from hominid social groups becoming larger and more complex, and repressing harmful animal behaviours. Moreover apes and other intelligent animals like elephants tend not to use rape as a method of mating, only cetaceans do this and even then only some species like Bottlenose Dolphins.
>he goblins could have simply reproduced like a normal humanoid, or they could spawn from fungus like 40k orks
This isn't 40K and you're completely ignoring the point of the story. This isn't e5.
>Making them reproduce by raping human women was a deliberate choice
Yes, no shit, because it's a choice that actually makes narrative sense, FFS. Like I said, you're not actually saying anything, just hand-wringing over your personal feelings about it.
>the goblins could have been an all-female race that reproduces by raping human men
And you reveal yourself MGE player. Female Rape of (adult) Males is often considered less than Male Rape of Females, or Male Rape of Males is due to the power dynamics of sexes: to penetrate vs being penetrated.
>This would actually make more sense
Not really you're just doing the same horny shit every other animu does. I mean yeah you could make an interesting a la your greentext, but that's already a totally different story by that point.
>female goblins raping men would be a more unusual story and make them seem more alien/monstrous
No, no it wouldn't be more monstrous. I suggest you read about the creation of the monster of Alien (1979) and the reason and design of the facehugger and chestburster.
>Goblin Slayer is just an appeal to sexual fantasies and insecurities
No it isn't, and people that claim this are clearly hyperfocusing on a relatively small portion of the actual story. There are scenes of it, but it's as part of the "entered and investigating a goblin hide-out" and that's only a small portion of those scenes and an even smaller portion of the overall story. The "rape" is also not (porno)graphic, it's horrible and not "sexy" or attractive to anyone that isn't a complete cum-brained degenerate.
>the absurd comparisons to other stories that handle similar themes much better.
A Strawman.

 No.15822

File: 1655662723527.jpg (1.13 MB, 2000x1417, ch2-insert-21.jpg)

>>15819
> all-female race that reproduces by raping human men
isn't this a plot from Konosuba with the orcs ?.

 No.15823

>>15821
>Yes, no shit, because it's a choice that actually makes narrative sense,
You can make any story make narrative sense.
>but that's already a totally different story by that point.
It's the author's choice what story they want to tell, and this mangaka wanted to tell a story revolving around a (((them))) who among other things is "coming to rape our women."

 No.15824

>>15818
>If you didn't pay attention, Goblins primarily rape women, because they seek to breed and that requires a woman. Thus goblins kill men that they have no use for, and rape surviving women, making it one of their primary reasons for being the monster they are.
Wow, an all male race of monsters that reproduce by raping human women? Never heard of that before
It's like you lack reading comprehension or something
>No, no it is not sexism, nor is it bad. You just don't like it, that's not an objective reason, that's your personal feelings. Compare to Redo of Healer - the series has females rape the MC… so it concludes that the MC totally is justified in mind-raping and physically raping his tormentors, that is a sexist narrative.
Do you know what an opinion is? It's seems like you don't
Plus I already talked about Redo already in this thread >>15766
<You ever wonder why they never use the same sexual violence against men?
>Because people don't want to.
Hmmm.. I wonder why that is?

>>15821
>And you reveal yourself MGE player. Female Rape of (adult) Males is often considered less than Male Rape of Females, or Male Rape of Males is due to the power dynamics of sexes: to penetrate vs being penetrated.
Not the same anon, but for a bio major I expected you to be a bit smarter, because you're just supporting my argument
The fact that you and a lot of authors who think that sexual violence against men is less severe, or like to shy away from making it be as intense and severe as they treat female characters is sexist
>I suggest you read about the creation of the monster of Alien (1979) and the reason and design of the facehugger and chestburster.
You do know that this is the same movie that had the male character get raped and impregnated by the face raping monster, right?

 No.15825

>>15821
>Your argument is comparable to the retards saying, "hay look some animals do gay shit too!"
average goblin slayer fan lets the mask slip on being a rightoid

 No.15826

>>15824
>The fact that you and a lot of authors who think that sexual violence against men is less severe, or like to shy away from making it be as intense and severe as they treat female characters is sexist
This is also really obvious from this quote >>15821
>Female Rape of (adult) Males is often considered less than Male Rape of Females, or Male Rape of Males is due to the power dynamics of sexes: to penetrate vs being penetrated.
Penetration isn't what makes rape bad or a sexual participant dominant. This is just sexual ideology about the "nature" of sex, the sexes, and sex organs. The phallus as a tool of domination is a social construct, especially given some of the more unique biological traits in humans, like the lack of a baculum and the positions of either kind of genitals with normal posture.

 No.15828


 No.15829


 No.15830

File: 1655670679692.jpg (256.99 KB, 780x1309, non-rapey orc.jpg)

LMAO and the shitstorm erupts, predictable

>>15825
No anon, you're projecting again.

>>15823
>You can make any story make narrative sense.
That's not addressing the my point
>this mangaka wanted to tell a story revolving around a (((them))) who among other things is "coming to rape our women."
No, no it is not, that is YOUR projection and completely misrepresents the work through a liberal idpol lens. This has already been addressed before, stop trying to pigeon-hole the story into your boring politicized obsession.

>>15824
>an all male race of monsters that reproduce by raping human women? Never heard of that before
Nobody said it's extremely original, just that it's not as inanely fetishistic as the "cute gobbo women uvu" and other nonsense far more prevalent.
>It's like you lack reading comprehension or something
LMAO the sheer lack of self-awareness
>Do you know what an opinion is? It's seems like you don't
If you're just going to do overly long "N-no U" then I'm not going to respond. As for your linked post about ReDo, it's dismissive and presents a one-sided depiction.
>you and a lot of authors who think that sexual violence against men is less severe, or like to shy away from making it be as intense and severe as they treat female characters is sexist
See you've beautifully created a strawman, conveniently ignoring that I specified in caps Female on Male Rape being lesser to Male on Male and Male on Female Rape. You are deliberately misrepresenting my argument and shifting the goalposts by miles, broadening it from rape to "violence" and to "against males".
Also It's hilarious how you simultaneously dismiss the rape and abuse in ReDo as being "borderline comedic" for the male character, yet have the gall to turn and lecture me for your projected strawman. LMAO go fuck yourself hypocrite.
>You do know that this is the same movie that had the male character get raped and impregnated by the face raping monster
Yes you fucking retarded liberal, the facehugging monster that PENETRATES the male crewmate and infects them with a parasite that then births from their chest. A male being raped and treated in a "female" manner.

>>15826
>Penetration isn't what makes rape bad
No shit, how the fuck do you misconstrue this?
>This is just sexual ideology about the "nature" of sex, the sexes, and sex organs. The phallus as a tool of domination is a social construct
No, no it is not just a social construct, and certainly not some "ideology", stop spouting terms you don't understand just because people on this site toss it around a lot. It is a social construc grounded in real sexual dimorphism and the behaviors of males vs females, by nature of biological differences pubescent and post-pubescent men have higher inherent physical strength and body mass than women and testosterones makes them more aggressive, sexually too. This changes the dynamic. There is a reason "femdom" is a fetish and maledom is not… because it is a sexual norm and is the reason rape is almost always male on female or male on male and far less often in the case of adults female on male. Female on male tends to be more common against children and young adults because an older female actually can have physical and emotional power over them.

 No.15831

>>15829
Because mods like to suck split balls.

 No.15832

>>15831
!??!!?!?!
I'm no mod

 No.15833

this talk about goblin slayer made me thing about it and the only manga i know where goblins are not treated like always evil is the Slime one, never seen one where Orcs are not treated like always bad tho.

 No.15834

>>15833
What's Slime?

 No.15835

>>15834
Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken aka Slime Isekai.

 No.15836

File: 1655672514841.png (1.48 MB, 768x1192, ClipboardImage.png)

>>15833
>never seen one where Orcs are not treated like always bad tho.
Oh boy it's my time to shill for Orc Stain not manga tho

 No.15837

>>15833
there are a few of them but they're all shitty isekai stories where the protagonist either gets reincarnated as a goblin or is like an orphan raised by goblins, i think it's even something of a trope in the genre

 No.15838

>>15829
>>15831
There's another thread about that >>15587
But right now there's goblinfag derailing shit by trying to legitimize their shitty manga by comparing it to a GOAT manga.

 No.15840

>>15837
i hate isekai because i love the concept so much but most of them are paper thin variations of the same template, even to the town and character design.

 No.15841

>>15838
>goblinfag thread

 No.15843

>>15840
i feel you, i blame the fucking publishers. why would gigaporky take a risk with an original story when they can put out an LN adaptation of some bullshit where in the worst case scenario it still functions as an advertisement for the source material (which they also own and produce)

 No.15849

How will goblincuck ever recover?

 No.15858

>>15849
By killing all the goblins.


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