….You’re all faggots
well I can't stand reading or buying manga, and I am not gonna watch the horrible anime adaptation
>>1822>>The whole world is ruled by an impersonal, most amoral entity created by human will but superseding all humans, controlling their lives based on it's own whims which are of course encouraged by the worst human impulses
>Reposting from a leftypol thread on Berserk:
Berserk has flaws, yes, but anything so ambitious is bound to, and none of them come anywhere close to detracting from its well deserved status as a masterpiece. Berserk, though very definitely seinen, does have some small shonen trappings such as Isidro, Schierke, and (perhaps most divisively) Puck, as well as an intermittent stream of puerile jokes, and (I'll get into this later) its edginess, but even if overused at times these serve to expand the range of the story, rather than allowing itself to become too po-faced to feel believable (like FotNS, for instance) without feeling clumsy (like many of FMA's gags).
All of the characters evolve repeatedly and massively over the course of the story, except for Griffith, which drives some of the prime themes; about greatness, dependence on or independence from others, having goals versus merely living, the nature of the human psyche, and of human culture through the lens of human imagination. The fights and battles, while they make up the bulk of pagecount, many of the pivotal moments, and are gripping material, are also accessory to development that occurs while characters travel, meditate, and converse. Perhaps equally important to characters and events in the story, is the world and the increasingly strange things that fill it; a land that is at once wild and brutal even before Fantasia or Eclipse, then increasing peeks into the world of the astral are conceptualized and realized on paper by Miura with an imaginative serenity and nightmarishness matched by few artists.
As to a decline in quality? That is a common opinion, and one I would agree with to a limited extent, especially post-boat. But (assuming this isn't bait, which it probably is) your placing it at the Golden Age arc is unusual even for cynics, when the most popular arc (both at the time, and in retrospect for most discussions I see today from the middlebrow "Star Wars peaked w/ ep. V" crowd) was Lost Children. As for the expansion of the cast, it was necessary to buttress themes of personal healing and trust for Guts, similarly to what happened in the Golden Age, but with the added point of his learning to build up the people he surrounds himself with to become his equals, and attempt to secure his victories in some lasting way.
Now, as to edginess. I named Berserk as an example of something that has depraved content without feeling trashy not because it uses that content for some purpose (which it does), but because it is thematically unapologetic about it. For instance, as visceral and ruthless as some of the content in FMA, Monster, Now and Then Here and There, and Crest of the Stars is, without being trashy/edgy either, they included such content specifically to condemn the behavior that leads to it, pointing toward a future where it can be stopped, as the overall tone of those anime was distinctly, er… Moralfag-y. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is an easier and more appealing type of story to write. Berserk uses extreme content to paint a portrait of characters, situations, and worlds that could not be adequately realized with more restraint, not just to offer moral commentary or judgement on them, but sheerly to portray them for their own sake. In this respect, I would describe Baccano! and Garden of Sinners as similar to Berserk.
This isn’t bait dude, I honestly love Berserk, it’s pretty much the only manga/anime I still like (okay, JoJo is great and FMA was great but Berserk sands above). Just wanted a thread to analyze my favorite series.
This isn't a response to your OP, its a repost of a lengthy rebuttal against a rather acidic ttack on Berserk a few months ago that I happened to save.
1st anime was actually great (particularly the music), though it only covers the first major arc. Sadly, later anime don't even measure up to 6th-gen vidya adaptations.>>1825
Liberal storytelling would be if "human nature" was eternally fixed, and struggle against it was futile.>>1826>tfw someone reposted my oc
Another section, perhaps more relevant to OP's argument:>Pre-Eclipse vs. post-Eclipse are different, and part of a larger arc for Guts:
<Childhood: Turned into a ruthless merc, won't let others near him, no ambition beyond swangin' his sword & shishkin' d00dz
<Band of the Falcon: Learns to enjoy the company of others
<3rd duel w/ Griffith: Decides to pursue something higher, looking inward spoiler: This was the wrong choice
<Rescue arc: Reconnects with his friends, but regresses and stagnates
<Dark Swordsman: Devastated, but forced to improve again, though he turns completely inward to do this
<Rebirth: Forced by Casca, then protecting her, to trust others with more than his own life>At that point, Guts has more than come full circle. He is compelled to advance not only himself, but others around him, to make a permanent dent in the world. This is where the common love of the series by fascists (and accusations of fascism) falls flat, because to this point the moral of Berserk has been that only your own strength can protect you from the ravages of the world, with protecting the weak an ultimately pointless task at best. Beyond it, however, the moral of Berserk shifts to the need not only to make yourself strong, but to transmit that strength to those weaker, and make them strong. This is also where the disconnect from Griffith's false utopia lies, with his regimenting people into followers.
>This is where the common love of the series by fascists (and accusations of fascism) falls flat, because to this point the moral of Berserk has been that only your own strength can protect you from the ravages of the world, with protecting the weak an ultimately pointless task at best. Beyond it, however, the moral of Berserk shifts to the need not only to make yourself strong, but to transmit that strength to those weaker, and make them strong. This is also where the disconnect from Griffith's false utopia lies, with his regimenting people into followers.
I just read it during the quarantine and love it too. "The Golden age" and "Lost Children" were my favorite arcs. When I was reading "Black swordsman" I didn't expect Berserk to evolve this much, next arc completely blew me away.
Everything changes when you see Guts walking away crying after killing the Count
I dunno OP I think it's not so much that demons sacrificing humans is a metaphor for capitalist exploitation and more that exploitation is justified by the more general logic of human sacrifice. The world of Berserk is literal feudalism, and like any other class system it engages in human sacrifice for war and profit without any demons having to be involved.
Berserk after the loli witch was introduced is a complete, utter and irredeemable shit. So, you can safely catch up on it until that ark and consider it done.
By that point in the story I kind of felt it had turned into your average weebshit.
Yeah, I'm caught up actually. The sheer inertia kept me going through the "companion adventure" bit but now it's just become too much. It's hard to care anymore because Miura gives the impression that he doesn't care himself, or that he's just out of inspiration and is just buying time to figure shit out.
I like the companion adventures, the problem is there’s literally 6-8 months between each and every issue now and it’s hard to be invested in a story when that’s the case; there’s so much time between every issue that you just wanna see something actually happen instead of just character interactions and development and shit. Berserk could have been over by now were it not for constant hiatus.
>>1822> Is Berserk the most based and redpilled anime
No, but it has good moments.
I feel like Berserk had a good idea but went way too hardcore and gory just for an edgy EXTREEEEEMEEE factor
This thread was posted long before /anime/ was created to divide up discussion from a board barely anybody uses to a board that nobody uses
whine more, this is an anime thread, hence it goes in anime. The commie waifu thread is older than fucking hobby is and it still got moved there too.
And as for "nobody uses it" anime has a higher PPH than hobby, mostly for threads originally made there.
I think this may better belong on anime, but there is already a thread there with Berserk (though lower in quality).
>>1833> Nevertheless, I'm incredibly grateful to have experienced it, and the ambition to create something to match or even surpass it is the driving force in my life.
I hope I get to see it, comrade.
Did you just read the first 10 chapters or something?
What’s it like being an utter faggot by choice?
Hey man, have you thought about making a YouTube channel, or a "BreadTube" channel as I like to calll them, haha? You could talk about your marxist analysis of Berserk and other Japanese cartoons a.k.a. anime, how Guts is the proletarian and Griffith is the bourgeoisie and stuff. Cool stuff.
It definitely seems overtly Neitzchean to me but I'm lost as to how you would could it marxist without sounding like a dumbass. The show never really makes much of class conflict in any meaningfull capacity, it's mostly just set in a shitty and unforgiving world. Hell, if anything the politics of the world that Berserk is set in are machiavellian. That suits the world better too imo, needs society to continue on being harsh. Honestly the main character would laugh in your face for trying to make the story about your own preconceptions of the world.
Bruh one of the central themes of the story is that being alienated and alone is bad because you get stuck reliving trauma and fighting individual battles. Guts realizing he needs a group of people to work with is so central to the story that it happens twice. The band of the hawk allows him to be part of something bigger than individual fights (until Griffith sacrifices it all for individual personal gain), and the current group looks like it's going to confront and fight the godhand and help fix the world finally.>>3901
The world isn't capitalist at all so trying to apply Marx to it is kind of dumb, yeah. Histmat doesn't really apply either because of CAUSALITY being actually magic reality warping. You could call perhaps call Griffith a reactionary though because he's trying to revive a dead ancient empire. The series is also very much into great man theory with the vast majority of characters being borderline irrelevant playthings of the few people who can actually affect the story. A lot of the "great man" characters are regular people though, so there is that.
berserk is like the simpsons, good for first few seasons, horse shit afterwards
the old 3 movie adaptation is pretty good
Well I don't feel so bad that the news now
i thought beserk was one of those tough guy anime? why does it have pedoshit in it
I didn't even think the quality everyone dipped as much as every says it did post Conviction arc.
Rip, great manga >>7603>pedo shit>Having children in your story makes if pedophilic,
This is your brain on anti porn.
>>7612>>Having children in your story makes if pedophilic,
nice strawman pedo
in before pedo hysterics ruin the thread
I was just kidding when I called that guy pedo but his strawman was really retarded
All the other anon did was casually drop the word "pedoshit"
So is Berserk one of the best manga of all time?
If not the best, then the most influential
>>1833>I've decided I'm literally not touching Berserk until it's finished or Miura die
I shared this sentiment until today.
He probably literally worked himself to death. If he had been willing to let his assistants draw more of the manga instead of just minor background details, he might still be here.
You're right, it is the assistants' fault for being too incompetent to be trusted with his magnum opus.
No it's the fault of the culture surrounding manga creation, how much pressure mangaka are under to work and how people's identities are tied to their art.
I honestly can't feel anything but anger over this. What kind of egotistical asshole strings his audience along for decades and then dies before concluding his story?
Dude he was playing [email protected]
George R. R. Martin (some day soon)
>>7633>ywn read crayon shin chan
i don't think it's even translated
It sounded like his messed up his constitution from overwork in the 90's, he probably didn't have many assistants back then.
It's not a strawman because that's your retarded argument. Presenting someone naked isn't pornography, all it is is just presenting a child in a naked state which can be used to present a theme like innocence, similar to angels being presented as naked babies.
Next time, instead of projecting your guilt of jerking off to cp, think of what you're saying
Shinchan and Berserk are actually the same universe. Think about it.
you don't even know what that anon was talking about when they said "pedoshit" (or how serious they wer about it)
you were replying to someone who was replying to someone complaining about the witch though
besides I don't agree that just having a naked child makes it pedophilic, at all
Hey, that's pretty cool.
Berserk fans are so desperate they're going to initially see this as a win.
So lads, how do you reckon Berserk would have ended?eurekaEureka
Guts was supposed to die
guts+skeletor eventually managing to defeat at least griffith, or mb bypass him entirely and fuck up the idea of evil
or if he was as based as some think, literally create a competing narrative with the help of skeletor to replace the idea of evil with something actually good for humans
>>7694>>7710>literally create a competing narrative with the help of skeletor to replace the idea of evil with something actually good for humans
Really it's Griffith
who is more on track to do this, and it would possibly create a dilemma where Guts and Skull Knight still have a score to settle, but doing so would threaten the new causality and send humanity into despair again. Guts even refers to this in either the most recent chapter or one very close to it, saying that Griffith is intent on becoming a god. Griffith is also of course the only mortal (perhaps the only Godhand) who actually knows about the idea of evil, so there's really no way for Guts etc to pull off this plot point unless Skull Knight happens to know somehow. This might be what Miura meant when he said he thought the lost chapter might have been revealing too much. Put into context, even though it's all bought with huge sacrifices of others, Griffith's plan does seem to be creating a radically different status quo and kindling a belief in good. Of course the fact that Griffith is a complete monster and a literal demon is where the drama comes from.
What would be Griffith's tax policy?
Read the manga. Start at the beginning.
I dont read Picture books
You're so grown up.
At least Clive Barker is still alive.
Griffith still sacrifice humans to the demons "protecting" the humans though.
That's one of the points that I don't see how you reconcile it with "good" unless you mean the greater good.
I actually kind of like Schierke's crush on Gutts. I think it's pretty realistic to a degree if the little witch has been living in the woods with her teacher her whole life then meets this big handsome super anti-hero. What sells it for me being more than wish fulfilment pedobait is that Gutts obviously doesn't think of Schierke romantically and probably isn't even aware of her feelings, and to be fair he's had much more important things to worry about. Considering Gutts own experiences getting raped as a kid, his benign relationship with Shierke and his mentorship of Ishidoro really highlight his growth as a character.
everyone forgot about miuras death alreadybrocialismBrocialism
>>7914>monkey boy wants to be like gatsu >mage loli has a crush on gatsu
i was really hoping for another time skip and see their monkey children raised by fairies
So to speak. More like, how much of Miura's death is due to the consequences of his position in the anime industry?
It's well known that the pace of Berserk releases dropped off as the series went on. How much was the commercial success of Berserk a factor? Early on he was only a mangaka, but by 2021 Berserk isn't just a manga series but a commercial institution. On top of drawing the manga, he has assistants to oversee, toy designs to approve, deals to authorize, etc. All the while his health is deteriorating, working himself to death in order to compete with the insane labor demands of the manga industry, not unlike Osamu Tezuka.
Is Miura being lazy and getting addicted to [email protected]
just a useful fiction to cover for the insane level of exploitation, the inhuman workload it takes to try and compete in the anime/manga industry?
Miura was a victim of the manga industry working mangaka to the bone. The idolmaster memes are a product of him adopting a more reasonable schedule for the level of work he put into each issue. But given the kind of death he suffered, it's likely he was already fucked by that time. Aortal dissection indicates a huge amount of chronic stress. Unless he just walked away from Berk for several years he was probably bound to slowly decline until a major artery just ripped open. And if he had been able to take the time off and recover he may have been able to come back with a better approach and let the assistants do more work on it.
>>9603>the manga industry working mangaka to the bone
Capitalism strikes again
I'm glad they changed their Channel name, the use of Cuck ironically or not, is pretty asinine
I mean they aren't Miura, so it's excusable, given that it wasn't their story. Now if MIURA had ended it this way…
based, griffith 2 did nothing wrong>>9931>Now if MIURA had ended it this way…
The only based thing he did :^)
I wouldn't trust someone randomly posting one untranslated page, BUT<supposedly Miura had finished the manuscript, meaning the story/plot was his, but the layouts and dialogue aren't all his<the announcement in YA is that they still aren't sure if they are going to continue
So whatever this issue has is Miura's in the broad strokes, and it's not a conclusion.
Yeah ok that's not at all what happened. This is the beginning of the interaction they have and it comes right at the end of the chapter. Either Griffith's next move is to leave through the magic highway or he has a conversation with Guts + Casca like on the hill of swords (probably the latter). The last panel mirrors one of the last panels of the Black Swordsman arc, as they are both the first time we see either the Black Swordsman or the White Hawk showing an actual emotion. The difference is with Griffith it's not genuine. It's the last remnant of moonboy as he transforms back into Griffith. The point is that he really doesn't have any emotion left, and the only way he feels anything is when he's effectively being possessed by someone else. With Guts it's a crack in the facade of manliness showing that he really is human after all.
Also yes apparently this chapter was mostly Miura's work, with the assistants finishing it up for publication.
Well they announced Duranki is officially canceled, but no news on Berserk. This suggests one of these scenarios:<It's undecided what's going to happen<They are going to try to finish it
There's no real reason not to announce Berserk's cancelation if that's already decided. My guess is Studio Gaga is moving on from the manga that was created to train them for Berserk and going to try doing Berserk. They will have to figure out the internal structure of how to organize the team for that, and they may lose some of the artists who may have creative differences. Berserks was always led by 1 person with a clear vision, so pivoting to a team-based structure would be logistically challenging. If they are going to continue it will take time for them to figure out their process and might include a trial run like Miura's prototype for Berserk. Even if everyone at Studio Gaga walks out on the project out of respect (which I doubt would align with Miura's wishes), there's too much money to be made on the franchise (especially now), so it's inevitably going to continue. We might see some kind of spin-off or flashback arc before a continuation of the story. It would be appropriate timing considering the parallel between the end of 364 and the end of the Black Swordsman arc pointed out here >>9937
>>9937>Also yes apparently this chapter was mostly Miura's work, with the assistants finishing it up for publication.
Based, the only based thing miura did is real and cannon
I can't wait for the adventures of new griffith not doing anything wrong
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