Let's see
>Guts is a low ass commoner bastard born from a corpse, meant to die, raised in a hellish world (that's literally just the same as our own before Guts encounters any actual demons) so harsh and cruel he likely has severe PTSD by the time he's 15
>Best friend Griffith is a social climbing piece of shit who has to murder and scheme to almost make it to the top, even then the ruling class tells him to go fuck himself and he has to sell his soul to the devil and murder all his friends to finally make it
>The ruling class are mostly monsters; the King is a pedophile nut that tries raping his own daughter, the "nicest" nobles were wrapped up in a brutal inquisition
>The whole world is ruled by an impersonal, most amoral entity created by human will but superseding all humans, controlling their lives based on it's own whims which are of course encouraged by the worst human impulses
>The thing everyone worships is literally evil itself
>Even the leaders of the apostles are pawns of the Market, err…."Idea of Evil"
Fuck it
The godhand are the bourgeoisie
The apostles are the petit bourgeois
Fuck yea
>Reposting from a leftypol thread on Berserk:
Berserk has flaws, yes, but anything so ambitious is bound to, and none of them come anywhere close to detracting from its well deserved status as a masterpiece. Berserk, though very definitely seinen, does have some small shonen trappings such as Isidro, Schierke, and (perhaps most divisively) Puck, as well as an intermittent stream of puerile jokes, and (I'll get into this later) its edginess, but even if overused at times these serve to expand the range of the story, rather than allowing itself to become too po-faced to feel believable (like FotNS, for instance) without feeling clumsy (like many of FMA's gags).
All of the characters evolve repeatedly and massively over the course of the story, except for Griffith, which drives some of the prime themes; about greatness, dependence on or independence from others, having goals versus merely living, the nature of the human psyche, and of human culture through the lens of human imagination. The fights and battles, while they make up the bulk of pagecount, many of the pivotal moments, and are gripping material, are also accessory to development that occurs while characters travel, meditate, and converse. Perhaps equally important to characters and events in the story, is the world and the increasingly strange things that fill it; a land that is at once wild and brutal even before Fantasia or Eclipse, then increasing peeks into the world of the astral are conceptualized and realized on paper by Miura with an imaginative serenity and nightmarishness matched by few artists.
As to a decline in quality? That is a common opinion, and one I would agree with to a limited extent, especially post-boat. But (assuming this isn't bait, which it probably is) your placing it at the Golden Age arc is unusual even for cynics, when the most popular arc (both at the time, and in retrospect for most discussions I see today from the middlebrow "Star Wars peaked w/ ep. V" crowd) was Lost Children. As for the expansion of the cast, it was necessary to buttress themes of personal healing and trust for Guts, similarly to what happened in the Golden Age, but with the added point of his learning to build up the people he surrounds himself with to become his equals, and attempt to secure his victories in some lasting way.
Now, as to edginess. I named Berserk as an example of something that has depraved content without feeling trashy not because it uses that content for some purpose (which it does), but because it is thematically unapologetic about it. For instance, as visceral and ruthless as some of the content in FMA, Monster, Now and Then Here and There, and Crest of the Stars is, without being trashy/edgy either, they included such content specifically to condemn the behavior that leads to it, pointing toward a future where it can be stopped, as the overall tone of those anime was distinctly, er… Moralfag-y. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is an easier and more appealing type of story to write. Berserk uses extreme content to paint a portrait of characters, situations, and worlds that could not be adequately realized with more restraint, not just to offer moral commentary or judgement on them, but sheerly to portray them for their own sake. In this respect, I would describe Baccano! and Garden of Sinners as similar to Berserk.
>>18241st anime was actually great (particularly the music), though it only covers the first major arc. Sadly, later anime don't even measure up to 6th-gen vidya adaptations.
>>1825Liberal storytelling would be if "human nature" was eternally fixed, and struggle against it was futile.
>>1826>tfw someone reposted my ocAnother section, perhaps more relevant to OP's argument:
>Pre-Eclipse vs. post-Eclipse are different, and part of a larger arc for Guts:<Childhood: Turned into a ruthless merc, won't let others near him, no ambition beyond swangin' his sword & shishkin' d00dz
<Band of the Falcon: Learns to enjoy the company of others
<3rd duel w/ Griffith: Decides to pursue something higher, looking inward
spoiler: This was the wrong choice<Rescue arc: Reconnects with his friends, but regresses and stagnates
Eclipse
<Dark Swordsman: Devastated, but forced to improve again, though he turns completely inward to do this
<Rebirth: Forced by Casca, then protecting her, to trust others with more than his own life
>At that point, Guts has more than come full circle. He is compelled to advance not only himself, but others around him, to make a permanent dent in the world. This is where the common love of the series by fascists (and accusations of fascism) falls flat, because to this point the moral of Berserk has been that only your own strength can protect you from the ravages of the world, with protecting the weak an ultimately pointless task at best. Beyond it, however, the moral of Berserk shifts to the need not only to make yourself strong, but to transmit that strength to those weaker, and make them strong. This is also where the disconnect from Griffith's false utopia lies, with his regimenting people into followers.
>This is where the common love of the series by fascists (and accusations of fascism) falls flat, because to this point the moral of Berserk has been that only your own strength can protect you from the ravages of the world, with protecting the weak an ultimately pointless task at best. Beyond it, however, the moral of Berserk shifts to the need not only to make yourself strong, but to transmit that strength to those weaker, and make them strong. This is also where the disconnect from Griffith's false utopia lies, with his regimenting people into followers. >>1834This.
By that point in the story I kind of felt it had turned into your average weebshit.
>>1842whine more, this is an anime thread, hence it goes in anime. The commie waifu thread is older than fucking hobby is and it still got moved there too.
And as for "nobody uses it" anime has a higher PPH than hobby, mostly for threads originally made there.
>>1834Bruh one of the central themes of the story is that being alienated and alone is bad because you get stuck reliving trauma and fighting individual battles. Guts realizing he needs a group of people to work with is so central to the story that it happens twice. The band of the hawk allows him to be part of something bigger than individual fights (until Griffith sacrifices it all for individual personal gain), and the current group looks like it's going to confront and fight the godhand and help fix the world finally.
>>3901The world isn't capitalist at all so trying to apply Marx to it is kind of dumb, yeah. Histmat doesn't really apply either because of CAUSALITY being actually magic reality warping. You could call perhaps call Griffith a reactionary though because he's trying to revive a dead ancient empire. The series is also very much into great man theory with the vast majority of characters being borderline irrelevant playthings of the few people who can actually affect the story. A lot of the "great man" characters are regular people though, so there is that.
>>1834Well I don't feel so bad that the news now
i thought beserk was one of those tough guy anime? why does it have pedoshit in it
>>7605Yeah, Rip.
I didn't even think the quality everyone dipped as much as every says it did post Conviction arc.
Rip, great manga
>>7603>pedo shit>Having children in your story makes if pedophilic, This is your brain on anti porn.
>>7617I was just kidding when I called that guy pedo but his strawman was really retarded
All the other anon did was casually drop the word "pedoshit"
>>7615It's not a strawman because that's your retarded argument. Presenting someone naked isn't pornography, all it is is just presenting a child in a naked state which can be used to present a theme like innocence, similar to angels being presented as naked babies.
Next time, instead of projecting your guilt of jerking off to cp, think of what you're saying
>>7650you don't even know what that anon was talking about when they said "pedoshit" (or how serious they wer about it)
you were replying to someone who was replying to someone complaining about the witch though
besides I don't agree that just having a naked child makes it pedophilic, at all
>>7694guts+skeletor eventually managing to defeat at least griffith, or mb bypass him entirely and fuck up the idea of evil
or if he was as based as some think, literally create a competing narrative with the help of skeletor to replace the idea of evil with something actually good for humans
>>7694>>7710>literally create a competing narrative with the help of skeletor to replace the idea of evil with something actually good for humansReally it's
Griffith who is more on track to do this, and it would possibly create a dilemma where
Guts and Skull Knight still have a score to settle, but doing so would threaten the new causality and send humanity into despair again. Guts even refers to this in either the most recent chapter or one very close to it, saying that Griffith is intent on becoming a god. Griffith is also of course the only mortal (perhaps the only Godhand) who actually knows about the idea of evil, so there's really no way for Guts etc to pull off this plot point unless Skull Knight happens to know somehow. This might be what Miura meant when he said he thought the lost chapter might have been revealing too much. Put into context, even though it's all bought with huge sacrifices of others, Griffith's plan does seem to be creating a radically different status quo and kindling a belief in good. Of course the fact that Griffith is a complete monster and a literal demon is where the drama comes from. >>7711Griffith still sacrifice humans to the demons "protecting" the humans though.
That's one of the points that I don't see how you reconcile it with "good" unless you mean the greater good.
>>9928based, griffith 2 did nothing wrong
>>9931>Now if MIURA had ended it this way…The only based thing he did :^)
>>9931I wouldn't trust someone randomly posting one untranslated page, BUT
<supposedly Miura had finished the manuscript, meaning the story/plot was his, but the layouts and dialogue aren't all his<the announcement in YA is that they still aren't sure if they are going to continueSo whatever this issue has is Miura's in the broad strokes, and it's not a conclusion.
>>9928Yeah ok that's not at all what happened.
This is the beginning of the interaction they have and it comes right at the end of the chapter. Either Griffith's next move is to leave through the magic highway or he has a conversation with Guts + Casca like on the hill of swords (probably the latter). The last panel mirrors one of the last panels of the Black Swordsman arc, as they are both the first time we see either the Black Swordsman or the White Hawk showing an actual emotion. The difference is with Griffith it's not genuine. It's the last remnant of moonboy as he transforms back into Griffith. The point is that he really doesn't have any emotion left, and the only way he feels anything is when he's effectively being possessed by someone else. With Guts it's a crack in the facade of manliness showing that he really is human after all. Also yes apparently this chapter was mostly Miura's work, with the assistants finishing it up for publication.
Well they announced Duranki is officially canceled, but no news on Berserk. This suggests one of these scenarios:
<It's undecided what's going to happen<They are going to try to finish itThere's no real reason not to announce Berserk's cancelation if that's already decided. My guess is Studio Gaga is moving on from the manga that was created to train them for Berserk and going to try doing Berserk. They will have to figure out the internal structure of how to organize the team for that, and they may lose some of the artists who may have creative differences. Berserks was always led by 1 person with a clear vision, so pivoting to a team-based structure would be logistically challenging. If they are going to continue it will take time for them to figure out their process and might include a trial run like Miura's prototype for Berserk. Even if everyone at Studio Gaga walks out on the project out of respect (which I doubt would align with Miura's wishes), there's too much money to be made on the franchise (especially now), so it's inevitably going to continue. We might see some kind of spin-off or flashback arc before a continuation of the story. It would be appropriate timing considering the parallel between the end of 364 and the end of the Black Swordsman arc pointed out here
>>9937>>9937>Also yes apparently this chapter was mostly Miura's work, with the assistants finishing it up for publication.Based, the only based thing miura did is real and cannon
I can't wait for the adventures of new griffith not doing anything wrong
>>10624I personally liked the arc where guts gets his armor. A lot of people hate the magic loli but thats where dark souls gets all of its inspiration. I actually quite liked the tone change from
dark brooding bloody religious warfare to classical high fantasy.The holy see arc was a little long for me, but I haven't actually read berserk past the first reading.
>>10625>A lot of people hate the magic loliAll of the side characters are important for Guts' character development and serve their own purpose in the story. Shierke is great and an excellent contrast to the characters who went through the trauma wringer. Especially next to
Farnese as her pupil she shows what somebody can become when shielded from harm and given what they need to flourish.
>>10627puck was only needed
to guide them to the final arc and I guess comedic relief. comedy is hard to come by without him and monkey boy.
also he became an icon or mascot, so I suppose it would just be plain dumb to axe him.
my only gripe in the end is the party got too big. like wtf is the point of
the mermaid? worst character. >>10624 (me)
>>10625>>10626The dark and broody atmosphere is cool and the action is great but what I really love about the series,
besides the Art of course, were characters and the imagery used to in conjunction with the dialogue. My two favorite chapters in the Golden Age arc is "Campfire of Dreams" for the simile of everyone in the Band of the Hawk,
Or Falcon, bringing their dreams together under Griffith's massive dream like bringing small flames together to create a massive inferno. And the other being the chapter that Miura retconned out of the story, "The god of the Abyss". Not only for giving insight into Miura's idea on the nature of the world of Berserk, but also how it characterized Griffith.
>>10630Yeah one of Miura's great talents was as a writer but that tends to go somewhat understated because of the focus on the art. He knew how to convey a lot with just the images and how to use dialogue to really punctuate things.
>>10629> like wtf is the point of the mermaid? worst character.Hard to say since there's not that much story yet. She contrasts the other characters in their origins though.
Guts
was raised in outright abuse and struggle, and has to re-learn how to survive in healthy relationships.Casca
had the Band of the Hawk but was traumatized by a specific bad experience that fucked her up.Isidro grew up on the mean streets figuring things out for himself but learning a sort of "toxic masculinity" as a result. He's mentally well but a bit maladjusted socially.Shierke grew up with a strong nurturing environment, but also one that was stifling to a degree, so she can form healthy attachments.Farnese grew up a child of privilege, benefiting from systemic power, which taught her to be an abuser, but she was able to get better (IMO one of the best parts of the story).Serpico grew up an enabler who has little personality to himself initially but becomes more independent over time.Isma by contrast is practically a feral child, who spent the character-relevant part of her youth away from people, so most of these dynamics are foreign to her and she is a bit of a "blank slate" so to speak. This is partly why she appears irrelevant IMO – what makes her different is not having much going on in this respect. But we don't know yet what Miura was going to do with her and the rest of the party. My guess is it's another angle to explore relationship dynamics and she and the others would continue to grow based on their interactions. I already see a bit of this in the moment where she jumps into the sea to save Isidro, in something of a role-reversal which she's completely unconscious of because she hasn't internalized society's expectations. I think there would have been more moments for her to shape Isidro's views of women for the better, among other things. My thoughts on an ultimate resolution to Berserk:
I kept expecting Miura to do a chapter where he pulls the rug out from under us regarding Griffith's new world order. You know, everything looks happy and good on the outside, but then we get a chapter where one of the prostitutes gets rounded up by demons and brought to the rape pits where they breed the babies that the demons in Griffith's army eat. Instead he's directly contrasted with the Kushan empire where the emperor is sewing women together to make artificial demon-enfusing wombs to possess human fetuses with demon souls and eradicating the entire midland population type shit. Kushan creates mindless monster slaves, while Griffith has knights that possess degrees, or at least the capacity, for gallantry. I think it all was exactly what it looked like: an Arthurian utopia where all the previous society's ills were eliminated and the ideal Feudal society is created. The Fisher King is on his throne, everything is prosperous, the aristocracy deserve their positions, and the knights are just as strong and gallant as the stories say.
There've been hints that this has happened before in the past. IIRC, the Skull knight has been implied to be Gutt's predecessor in some capacity, and that the last golden age ended in a conflict between that era's legendary knight and the emperor.
I think what Miura could have been building towards was that causality was at the root of this cycle, and that Femto/The Millennium Falcon are part of the deal. You have 100 years of darkness, and then you have 100 years of light, but as long as causality reigns, it goes on like this forever. From the changes that Gutts has been going through as a character, I think that parallel's Griffith's changes too. Gutts could get revenge on Griffith, but what would be the point? It's not the same Griffith, and that ultimate act of evil gave birth to the new age of prosperity. It lasts as long as Griffith does, and Gutts has to choose between momentary utopia or the chaos of self determination where everyone has free will and the possibility both for escaping the cycle or succumbing to it.
>>11051Griffith's new order isn't a utopia. When he merged everything he put the whole world into the same basic situation that Guts was in during the Black Swordsman arc. Basically everything is the Interstice now. We see what Falconia is like and how everything is great there, but outside of it people are constantly under threat. If there was going to be a rug-pull moment my money is on Rickert going with Silat to the (former?) Kushan Empire and seeing the devastating results of Griffith's actions. We've already seen this to a degree with Guts' party although it doesn't exactly stand out to us because for Guts things haven't changed much.
>I think what Miura could have been building towards was that causality was at the root of this cycleI think that's very likely. Especially given how much Miura has been emphasizing the physical toll on Guts. I would say 363 and 364 have been really emphasizing what kind of life Guts could have if he walked away from his dedication to just fighting Griffith and the apostles the way he's been doing. His current path is self-destructive (to say nothing of its effects on other people), and it's not even necessarily going to solve the problem. The parallels being made between Guts and Skull Knight are well developed at this point. It might be dramatic and tragic for Guts to simply follow in his footsteps, but that wouldn't fit with the whole thing about Guts (and Casca and moonboy) being somewhat outside of causality's influence. How they would do that is another question. Hopefully Miura at least left notes on it.
>that ultimate act of evil gave birth to the new age of prosperity. It lasts as long as Griffith does, and Gutts has to choose between momentary utopia or the chaos of self determination where everyone has free will and the possibility both for escaping the cycle or succumbing to it.I think it makes more sense for the way out to be to pull more and more people out of the cycle of causality (which also parallels cyclical trauma) by growing his party, with he and his comrades being a sort of crack in the system that slowly spreads and gets bigger until enough people embrace his alternative worldview.
It doesn't get a lot of emphasis largely because the main thing is in the "lost" chapter that Miura redacted but Guts is unknowingly the antithesis of the
Idea of Evil. Most people in the setting believe that the world is basically a bad and dangerous place which is ultimately what empowers the Godhand and apostles. Guts and his party have learned to take the bad with the good instead of justifying the bad and becoming attached to it. The same logic of the Idea of Evil is what underpins Griffiths (not) utopia: the sacrifice at the Eclipse was evil but necessary evil. People suffer and want reasons for their suffering, but justifying suffering begets more suffering. While Falconia is a nice place the outside world is under constant siege by demons. It seems justified because it's seen as the necessary cost of having Falconia. The people living there might be safe and taken care of, but they still live in fear (particularly of the outside), so they remain childlike and stunted by Griffith's protection.Contrast Guts and friends, who do not live in fear or excuse the suffering of the world, but accept it as part of life as a struggle. Unlike Griffith's subjects (who live in subservience to Falconia), they are free to self-actualize because they recognize and struggle with the suffering in the world, instead of believing it's necessary and merely accepting how things are. And I think that's what Miura was going for ultimately. The Godhand and apostles accomplish what they do (as do the human tyrants) because the people are stuck repeating the pattern believing that it's just inevitable. But it's not so much "belief" in itself as it is acting accordingly. While most of the people just go along with Evil as if it's unavoidable or necessary, Guts struggles against it. The fundamental difference between Guts and everyone else (until he meets other people like him and forms his party) is not that he's strong of will or muscle, but that he puts up meaningful resistance. His will and muscle help, but the world is full of people who are similarly strong but don't struggle against "causality." Is Guts special because of magical reasons since Skull Knight saved him from the Eclipse or is the real difference that he's actually willing to fight back now that he's seen what's behind Evil and knows that it's not inevitable? Maybe "causality" is merely a collective delusion or a self-fulfilling prophecy.
That is what the lost chapter suggests. >>11096>Griffith's new order isn't a utopia.Oh, that's true. I guess I should have been more specific, since it's not the whole world, but rather Falconia specifically. I think it's more a Utopia from the perspective of the average person. In the lead up, we see that the feudal nobility and clergy are basically entirely corrupt, literally feeding peasants to monsters, funding endless wars, torturing and executing "heretics," etc. Kushan invades and is somehow even
worse, and then they're delivered by a prophesied mesiah that protects them from legendary monsters inside his glittering, supernatural fortress. Outside Falconia things are even worse off, but for the lucky ones rescued by Griffith and living in his magical city, things couldn't be better–for now, anyway.
>It might be dramatic and tragic for Guts to simply follow in his footsteps, but that wouldn't fit with the whole thing about Guts (and Casca and moonboy) being somewhat outside of causality's influence.I agree. It seems like the whole drive of the Berserk Armor plot thread seems to be that Gutts is coming to grips with the limits that his anger can bring him to. At first his fury was the only thing keeping him alive, but now he's reaching both physical and psychological limits as to what his barely contained anger can accomplish.
The Skull Knight and Zodd might be an important parallel here. IIRC it's been implied that Zodd and Skull were rivals during Gaiseric's empire, and have basically been fighting off and on up until the present day. Speculating here, but I would theorize that Skull Knight was in a similar position to Gutts at one point, and had to choose between ending the cycle or giving into his desire for vengeance/fighting Zodd, and chose the latter. The Skull Knight is powerful and no longer ages, but it seems like it's basically an Alphonse Elric type situation where his personality resides in his armor, which I think is supported by him eating Behelits and when he pulled out the behelit sword.
That's what the narrative drive seemed like to me anyway, either sacrificing his humanity to keep chasing vengeance, or else choose another option.
>>11118>At first his fury was the only thing keeping him alive, but now he's reaching both physical and psychological limits as to what his barely contained anger can accomplish. This is also how people heal from trauma in real life. They end up with coping mechanisms that keep them going through it, but once they no longer need them they have to learn to move on and let go.
>Speculating here, but I would theorize that Skull Knight was in a similar position to Gutts at one point, and had to choose between ending the cycle or giving into his desire for vengeance/fighting Zodd, and chose the latter.It would fit. They already made it clear that they are strongly paralleled. I think it may not truly be a "choice" though. In practical terms yes SK could have chosen differently, but that might require him to know things he doesn't, like the true nature of causality.
Griffith is the only character confirmed to know (in the dubiously canon lost chapter). It's possible that Guts could learn this from him, giving him the final piece. Guts is already on this path, however. It's not specified in SK's backstory but there's no indication that he had the kind of bonds that Guts has been making with his party that keep him tethered to something besides his coping mechanism and trauma. They're enough to push him in the right direction but maybe not enough by themselves to actualize his potential to break the cycle. Maybe Guts can even do it without understanding, but there definitely seems like some piece missing there. It can't be as easy as just walking away. That would break the cycle for him, but not the actual cycle, unless there's just some ripple effect like I suggested in my other post.
>>11385Correct
>SOA Is this a joke of accidental misspelling of SAO.
>>11562>big tiddie She's
a kid you fuck
>>1834>loli witchIn what universe is Schierke a loli? And besides, she is one of the best characters in the series. If you're going to bitch about characters, then whine about Isidro or Isma
Even though I don't they are bad characters per se just some of the weakest.
>>11567Should've been a picture of Jotaro (17) tbh
Giorno still looks kinda like a teen
>>15595Apparently Miura told Mori pretty much everything that was planned, at least in broad strokes. The statement also indicates that it was pretty well fleshed out too, and that Miura hadn't much deviated from those plans in the decades of making Berserk. Assuming this is all true (since the two of them were the only ones party to the discussions) then we are likely to get basically the story Miura intended.
The art from the last comic and the new teaser are obviously not drawn by Miura. The team doesn't perfectly have his style down. However, in a way it's alright because we know that they aren't him anyway, and he pretty much kept the integrity of his art until his death, as he wanted. The replacements aren't him and don't look like his work really, but they are all still excellent artists in their own right. It's not going to fully be Miura's Berserk, but it will be Miura's story carried by his apprentices' art.
>>15605Just wish he didn't blow up his heart tbh
Then again, at least now it will be finished for sure.
>>15627Berserk has been setting up for a while that Guts needs to find another way to deal with his problems. The single-minded demon slaying was portrayed pretty much from the start as not good, like an addiction Guts needed to be rehabilitated from. The last issue
emphasizes that despite his power level, the sheer amount of punishment is starting to break him down physically to the point that without the armor he struggles to wield his weapons. It's also implied that he needs to find another way to handle Griffith &co. Doesn't Goblin Slayer just treat mercilessly exterminating the goblins as unambiguously necessary and good? Berserk definitely has its share of fans who don't get the point, so maybe that's the crossover.
>>15693>essly exterminating the goblins as unambiguously necessary Yes. As for good… they're monsters of a literal kind, no humanization of the creatures meant to be everything ugly and horrid, like Anime tends to do otherwise. It's kind of refreshing having the creatures NOT be secretly humanized - they're just big pests that have intelligence but no sense of conscience, they care for their children out of necessity, they kill and rape out of instinct, they are just animals for the most part, a marked differentiation from the usual "gobbos" that are just stupid shortstack humans.
Goblin Slayer's obsession is demonstrated as being a subversion, seen as insane by everyone else - he's essentially traumatized to the point that annihilating Goblins is his main motivation because they bring nothing but suffering to people, and that's all he does to an unhealthy degree - But the subversion is that, in being so engrossed he's also very knowledgeable about Goblins and fighting underground, like some kooky neighbor that hunts rats for a hobby.
>>15698There are tropes for everything anon, the point is that it subverts the norms of modern fiction that try to make goblins into some kind of demi-human instead of the intentionally monstrous creatures they are intended as, subverting modern subversions. And more important subverting the "obsessed weirdo" trope by making the guy unintentionally someone that focuses on the details and things everyone else dismisses or pays little attention to. If he hadn't been such, the town and farm would be attacked by Goblins unprepared and the lack of Goblin extermination would lead to an infestation that would take many lives, deaths that would go unnoticed because it's not some giant monster or demonic creature rampaging but small-time things that accumulate unnoticed… by everyone but Goblin Slayer.
>>15699>bit problematic inherentlyNo it isn't. Goblins are not an allegory for any kind of people, they're not real beings that have real feelings, they are fictional monsters… and decades of media portraying them as cute gobbo grills and pot-bellied scamp have "subverted" this for some time.
>racist narrative with a fantasy veneer. Not this garbage again. This already got debunked in the LOTR thread by multiple people explaining at length that the only racial allegory to be found are by those people that project their ideologies onto this. The "Russians are Orcs" meme for example is an examples of this liberal thinking that gets accepted because the West has a hateboner for Russia and the USSR, based on decades of Cold War propaganda utilizing Nazi caricatures of Der Untermensch and its referral primarily to Slavs and other "mongoloid hordes". The "Orcs are Black People" approach is similarly flawed, and gets called out because it's just liberal hand-wringing over a caricature that isn't PC to their idpozzed hypocritical brains.
>they were made to be that way somehow They are, that's LITERALLY orcs and goblins in LOTR among other media - they are the creations of Sauron; evil reflections of man and elf, hell the first Orcs are literally Elves that became such because they became servants of Morgoth and Sauron, literal GODS of evil, that are not tied to mortal concepts of good in evil and evil in good.
In Goblin Slayer this canon of Goblins being some strange monsters that have vaguely humanoid forms is just that - they're monsters from the start, not even a civilization that has its own morals and humanity or something like Dark Elves or Warhammer Orcs - they're literally just overly intelligent animals.
>Berserk's monsters follow a similar pattern where the monsters are humans who willingly gave up their humanity because they found humanity itself too painful to deal with. Not all of them are such though. Trolls and many of the more fodderish/goblin-type monsters are just that, mysterious monsters. most human-turned-monsters are above those creatures in status and behavior.
>>15700TBH I always thought the Orcs were meant to be german.
NTA
>>15703 >It's a setting where /pol/ style race realism is the truth of the world.Except it isn't /pol/-style racism coms from false caricaturization, a poor understanding of societal dynamics and pseudo-science. There is nothing to misinterpret in these stories: It's a monster that has no redeeming qualities, nothing more or less. Racial overtones are projection by racist viewers.
>>15701>defend and unironically like a series where pure maidens get gobbed <proceeds to ignore the series making sure to see the horrific nature of rape and its divorcement from "le rape doujins" <proceeds to ignore most of the series focusing on eliminating goblins and their threat LMAO
>>15706>/pol/ style meme about triggering le libs <everymeme is /pol/!<leftypol doesn't troll libsLurk moar.
>>15707>the anime direction is litterally shot like an hentai.That's on the anime industry, and even then it's still far too horrifying for anyone that doesn't already have /d/-tier taste.
>>15709>genocidal might is right power fantasies<projecting liberal interpretations >AoTBecause AoT is between 2 human factions, Titans may lose their minds but the main characters on both sides are consciously making their choices and justifying their ideologies. Thus you can actually criticize a depiction of genocide because its actually genocide in this case.
>>15710>We must own the libs even if this just makes us side with libs of a different kind<If /pol/ likes something that someone else also may like that means they're /pol/Amazing logic. I guess people better start leaving this site because the majority of /pol/ doesn't support Ukraine and mocks liberals for doing so!
>mediocre<hurr you can't enjoy something that isn't le art-house! Also Dorohedoro is not that good either, stop derailing to dick-measure like a teenager about "my favorite sho is better!" when that isn't the object of discussion here.
>>15711>defending a shitty anime that came out recently <jumping this hard in rage over a meme and a discussionLMAO
1) Goblin Slayer came out years ago at this point
2) Your opinion is noted, now do yourself a favor and stop replying if you have nothing constructive to say.
>>15704I've read the manga it's literally no different than a shindol or asanagi doujin
Unironically kill yourself you cuckshit loving retard
>>15725>>15726 (me)
sorry I'm not trying to do the 4chan thing of nitpicking one small part of your post what you said holds true the vast majority of the time you get these shock rape scenes, especially in shitty isekai manga etc
just wanted to point out that bad writers who thoughtlessly use it with female characters will also thoughtlessly use it with male characters
>>15725Broke (Goblin Slayer): Sexual violence against women
Woke (Berserk): Sexual violence against boys
>>15724shindol is way better than goblin slayer even in his weakest of days. At least that shit is interesting.
Although comparing it to a boring ass asanagi doujin is also unfair to goblin slayer.
>>15725I just find the always evil trope to be boring. Unsurprising things are always less interesting than something that is unexpected. We have reached peak anti-2000's/2010's that liking super man over batman because superman is pure is unironically basic-bitch takes again. Let alone backing a lot of the backwards ass love for always evil races, hatred of high fantasy and magic and other such things.
>>15726>>15729Now I have not read the entire manga of Redo, but from what I've seen the sexual violence is so ridiculous that it's borderline comedic
I doubt the MC gets treated to the same degree that the women are
There is also the fact that at some point he turns a male character into a woman (futa) that get's gangraped and set on fire in order to get their comeuppance
>>15766you're right, the overall focus of the manga is absolutely sexual violence against women, but whether the MC was "treated to the same degree" is basically the central conceit (since it's ostensibly a revenge story). like you said, it kind of loses meaning since it's so ridiculously excessive, but he is shown being raped and abused every day for years(?) and retaining PTSD-like symptoms even after getting revenge later
still that's like 5% of the story tops, with 25% being boring lifeless purely functional plot advancement to set up the next rape scene and the other 70% being said sexual violence
compare with berserk, for example, which actually has some substance outside of its R-rated scenes - an actual fucking setting with interesting shit in it, interiority of characters, gestures towards themes - and (at least more often than not (probably)) the sexual violence in the story has a clear dramatic effect outside of "look how EVIL this guy is": farnese is the question, not the horse
>There is also the fact that at some point he turns a male character into a woman (futa) that get's gangraped and set on fire in order to get their comeuppanceit's worse than that, iirc he grows a dick on a lesbian woman and then has her raped,
eaten alive, and set on fire
>>15724>I've read the manga it's literally no different than a shindol or asanagi doujin No
>C-cuck>U-unironically KYS!!!Go back to 4chan you seething chinlet.
>>15720 >Gate-keeping terms used interchangeably <having nothing to say but vitriol and pants-shittingLMAO
>>15725Do link to the post you are replying to.
>It's the fact that Goblin Slayer and others always rely on sexual violence against women, or really like to drone on with the fact that women are the ones being killed and brutalized <He doesn't know If you didn't pay attention, Goblins primarily rape women, because they seek to breed and that requires a woman. Thus goblins kill men that they have no use for, and rape surviving women, making it one of their primary reasons for being the monster they are.
>It's an incredibly bad and sexist way of writing in order to instill a hatred against a villain, or a group of whatever No, no it is not sexism, nor is it bad. You just don't like it, that's not an objective reason, that's your personal feelings. Compare to Redo of Healer - the series has females rape the MC… so it concludes that the MC totally is justified in mind-raping and physically raping his tormentors, that is a sexist narrative.
>You ever wonder why they never use the same sexual violence against men? Because people don't want to.
>>15818>muh objectivityYour opinions are not objective either. Neither is rape "objectively" bad. It's all opinions. Indeed, in reality a lot of animals reproduce through VERY forced copulation (although it's not really rape because the animals don't really have a concept of consent). But that's nature. Fiction is invented, and it's up to the author to decide what to put in the story, especially a fantasy story. The goblins could have simply reproduced like a normal humanoid, or they could spawn from fungus like 40k orks. Making them reproduce by raping human women was a deliberate choice. That much is an objective fact.
Hell, the goblins could have been an all-female race that reproduces by raping human men. This would actually make more sense.
>some species have evolved IRL to be all-female (whiptail lizards)>a species' own body would be better suited to incubating their offspring>less incentive for humans to attack you, with little reason to kill anyone>no need for the victim to end up in goblin lair> >less risk of attracting rescuers> >less risk involved from not transporting the incubator by force> >harder for humans to even find your lairs>fertility is controlled by the female fertility cycle, so instead of having to wait until female humans start ovulating or trying over and over, female goblins could wait until they hit that part of the cycle to go on raidsAnd on top of this, female goblins raping men would be a more unusual story and make them seem more alien/monstrous than the kind of atrocities that actual humans have committed all the time throughout history (especially in warfare).
The reality is that Goblin Slayer is just an appeal to sexual fantasies and insecurities and is basically hentai with a pretense of being something else. This wouldn't really be a problem if not for the massive denial of this and the absurd comparisons to other stories that handle similar themes much better.
>>15819>Your opinions are not objective either It's not an opinion you dolt, it's the narrative of the story.
>Neither is rape "objectively" bad Yeah go back faggot.
>a lot of animals reproduce through VERY forced copulation I'm a bio major specializing in Macrobiology, I know this, i can even name specific examples. Your argument is comparable to the retards saying, "hay look some animals do gay shit too!" and ignore that even more animals commit cannibalism. If you're not understanding the point let me simplify it for you - humans are not ordinary animals, rules of society and ideas of morality and ethics arose from hominid social groups becoming larger and more complex, and repressing harmful animal behaviours. Moreover apes and other intelligent animals like elephants tend not to use rape as a method of mating, only cetaceans do this and even then only some species like Bottlenose Dolphins.
>he goblins could have simply reproduced like a normal humanoid, or they could spawn from fungus like 40k orks This isn't 40K and you're completely ignoring the point of the story. This isn't e5.
>Making them reproduce by raping human women was a deliberate choice Yes, no shit, because it's a choice that actually makes narrative sense, FFS. Like I said, you're not actually saying anything, just hand-wringing over your personal feelings about it.
>the goblins could have been an all-female race that reproduces by raping human men And you reveal yourself MGE player. Female Rape of (adult) Males is often considered less than Male Rape of Females, or Male Rape of Males is due to the power dynamics of sexes: to penetrate vs being penetrated.
>This would actually make more sense Not really you're just doing the same horny shit every other animu does. I mean yeah you could make an interesting a la your greentext, but that's already a totally different story by that point.
>female goblins raping men would be a more unusual story and make them seem more alien/monstrous No, no it wouldn't be more monstrous. I suggest you read about the creation of the monster of Alien (1979) and the reason and design of the facehugger and chestburster.
>Goblin Slayer is just an appeal to sexual fantasies and insecurities No it isn't, and people that claim this are clearly hyperfocusing on a relatively small portion of the actual story. There are scenes of it, but it's as part of the "entered and investigating a goblin hide-out" and that's only a small portion of those scenes and an even smaller portion of the overall story. The "rape" is also not (porno)graphic, it's horrible and not "sexy" or attractive to anyone that isn't a complete cum-brained degenerate.
>the absurd comparisons to other stories that handle similar themes much better.A Strawman.
>>15821>Yes, no shit, because it's a choice that actually makes narrative sense, You can make any story make narrative sense.
>but that's already a totally different story by that point.It's the author's choice what story they want to tell, and this mangaka wanted to tell a story revolving around a (((them))) who among other things is "coming to rape our women."
>>15818>If you didn't pay attention, Goblins primarily rape women, because they seek to breed and that requires a woman. Thus goblins kill men that they have no use for, and rape surviving women, making it one of their primary reasons for being the monster they are. Wow, an all male race of monsters that reproduce by raping human women? Never heard of that before
It's like you lack reading comprehension or something
>No, no it is not sexism, nor is it bad. You just don't like it, that's not an objective reason, that's your personal feelings. Compare to Redo of Healer - the series has females rape the MC… so it concludes that the MC totally is justified in mind-raping and physically raping his tormentors, that is a sexist narrative. Do you know what an opinion is? It's seems like you don't
Plus I already talked about Redo already in this thread
>>15766 <You ever wonder why they never use the same sexual violence against men? >Because people don't want to.Hmmm.. I wonder why that is?
>>15821>And you reveal yourself MGE player. Female Rape of (adult) Males is often considered less than Male Rape of Females, or Male Rape of Males is due to the power dynamics of sexes: to penetrate vs being penetrated. Not the same anon, but for a bio major I expected you to be a bit smarter, because you're just supporting my argument
The fact that you and a lot of authors who think that sexual violence against men is less severe, or like to shy away from making it be as intense and severe as they treat female characters is sexist
>I suggest you read about the creation of the monster of Alien (1979) and the reason and design of the facehugger and chestburster.You do know that this is the same movie that had the male character get raped and impregnated by the face raping monster, right?
>>15824>The fact that you and a lot of authors who think that sexual violence against men is less severe, or like to shy away from making it be as intense and severe as they treat female characters is sexist This is also really obvious from this quote
>>15821>Female Rape of (adult) Males is often considered less than Male Rape of Females, or Male Rape of Males is due to the power dynamics of sexes: to penetrate vs being penetrated. Penetration isn't what makes rape bad or a sexual participant dominant. This is just sexual ideology about the "nature" of sex, the sexes, and sex organs. The phallus as a tool of domination is a social construct, especially given some of the more unique biological traits in humans, like the lack of a baculum and the positions of either kind of genitals with normal posture.
LMAO and the shitstorm erupts, predictable
>>15825No anon, you're projecting again.
>>15823>You can make any story make narrative sense.That's not addressing the my point
>this mangaka wanted to tell a story revolving around a (((them))) who among other things is "coming to rape our women." No, no it is not, that is YOUR projection and completely misrepresents the work through a liberal idpol lens. This has already been addressed before, stop trying to pigeon-hole the story into your boring politicized obsession.
>>15824>an all male race of monsters that reproduce by raping human women? Never heard of that beforeNobody said it's extremely original, just that it's not as inanely fetishistic as the "cute gobbo women uvu" and other nonsense far more prevalent.
>It's like you lack reading comprehension or something LMAO the sheer lack of self-awareness
>Do you know what an opinion is? It's seems like you don't If you're just going to do overly long "N-no U" then I'm not going to respond. As for your linked post about ReDo, it's dismissive and presents a one-sided depiction.
>you and a lot of authors who think that sexual violence against men is less severe, or like to shy away from making it be as intense and severe as they treat female characters is sexist See you've beautifully created a strawman, conveniently ignoring that I specified in caps Female on Male Rape being lesser to Male on Male and Male on Female Rape. You are deliberately misrepresenting my argument and shifting the goalposts by miles, broadening it from rape to "violence" and to "against males".
Also It's hilarious how you simultaneously dismiss the rape and abuse in ReDo as being "borderline comedic" for the male character, yet have the gall to turn and lecture me for your projected strawman. LMAO go fuck yourself hypocrite.
>You do know that this is the same movie that had the male character get raped and impregnated by the face raping monsterYes you fucking retarded liberal, the facehugging monster that PENETRATES the male crewmate and infects them with a parasite that then births from their chest. A male being raped and treated in a "female" manner.
>>15826>Penetration isn't what makes rape badNo shit, how the fuck do you misconstrue this?
>This is just sexual ideology about the "nature" of sex, the sexes, and sex organs. The phallus as a tool of domination is a social construct No, no it is not just a social construct, and certainly not some "ideology", stop spouting terms you don't understand just because people on this site toss it around a lot. It is a social construc grounded in real sexual dimorphism and the behaviors of males vs females, by nature of biological differences pubescent and post-pubescent men have higher inherent physical strength and body mass than women and testosterones makes them more aggressive, sexually too. This changes the dynamic. There is a reason "femdom" is a fetish and maledom is not… because it is a sexual norm and is the reason rape is almost always male on female or male on male and far less often in the case of adults female on male. Female on male tends to be more common against children and young adults because an older female actually can have physical and emotional power over them.
>>15831!??!!?!?!
I'm no mod
>>15829>>15831There's another thread about that
>>15587But right now there's goblinfag derailing shit by trying to legitimize their shitty manga by comparing it to a GOAT manga.
>>15637>Just wish he didn't blow up his heart tbhIt's the industry's fault. Miura's not the only one with health problems from overwork. If his artist OCD existing in a more sane context he'd probably still be alive.
>>15666Fuck off Satan, the last couple arcs have been good and needed in the larger arc of the story. It's just that IRL it took way too long to release. The boat arc flies by if you aren't waiting through hiatuses.
>>16414>normalfag soyboys went full "weow! le heckin plot development!got a kek outta me tbh
>>16420Apparently Miura had the entire series outlined and shared it with Mori, which is the basis for what his crew is doing. So Miura was writing with a conclusion in mind. I think they're going to have to find an unconventional way to
stop Griffith but that one moment where
Guts is able to cut a single hair with the Dragon Slayer implies that maybe the ending will be more straightforward than that.
>>16449It's definitely not perfect lol. Guts fucking things up in an ironic way would make sense though.
>>16693>>16694I binge watched all of it lmao
Can't believe they finished it where they did and that they didn't make a second season. I have the other stuff too but I liked everything about it so much I want more of the same not more but done totally differently.
Why the hell did they make three films about the same material they already used lol
>>16707>Why the hell did they make three films about the same material they already used lolBecause everyone likes that part of the story and they wanted to make back the money spent.
The 2016 anime tried to adapt other parts but did an absolutely abominable job, not even worth checking to see it or to laugh at it, truly abysmal, one of the worst attempts at adaptation of all time, hands down. So bad it's completely unwatchable, and scrambles up the timeline for some reason.
Because of the structure of the rest of the series, it would be somewhat difficult to adapt. There are arcs that are relatively short and ones that go on for a long time. Golden Age is relatively self-contained and easier to adapt, but outside of that you are dealing with very long-form character development across many different plots that all tie together. It would be a beast of an undertaking to try to adapt it, especially since there's no point where you could really stop and have a proper conclusion for the overall story.
>>16711>I don't think you could make something like it even with an unlimited budget nowadaysI mean,it's good,but it's not like it's the hardest thing to make ever,I could easily see Bones,MAPPA or even DEEN do it.
Reminder that it was given to a bunch of litterally whos who only did 3d animation,it's not just the budget that was the problem
For the soundtrack,Hirasawa was on the remake and the movies as well,he isn't dead,he made an album last year,and it still has his style.
>>16723It's not the material or subject matter that's the issue, but the amount of source material and the way most of it ties together so that it's hard to skip much of it. It'd probably take 10+ years to fully adapt it, which is a big commitment and risk for a project, especially now that the 2016 anime was panned.
>>16766>It's in the long-standing tradition of manga/anime that occasionally has some great imagery and interesting themes but is also full of "look at the big-ass sword!Illustrating a story about someone who wields a weapon is going to involve a lot of images of them wielding the weapon. And there's a lot you can do with something like a sword, and a lot of inventive things you can do with an unconventional sword.
>>20740He's directing Studio Gaga which has several artists who were apprenticing under Miura to emulate his style (originally to alleviate his workload) who are drawing it.
They've put out 9 chapters already: 365-373, about one a month. Miura's last chapter was 364, and they had to finish it for him since he died while it was in production.
At the moment they're on hiatus since June.
>>20747They seem to be doing that but also being conservative with how much they make. The chapters put out so far have been moving pretty fast and are light on dialogue even by Berserk standards. Biggest criticism I agree with is they need to bite the bullet and do more dialogue. The art is noticeably different but the style is damn close and for the most part it does a good job conveying the story and character moments (which is no small feat). Mori doesn't want to take too many creative liberties beyond what Miura told him, but they will need to flesh things out a lot for the rest of the manga to be
Berserk and not
a Berserk tribute.
>>20753Some of the biggest, but then again the artists were trained by Miura to do this kind of thing, including for the possibility that he couldn't finish it. And Mori was his close friend who he told his entire plans for Berserk over the years.
Also what a freak coincidence that Miura died while working on the chapter where Guts
loses his grip on his sword because his body is deteriorating.
>>15833>never seen one where Orcs are not treated like always bad tho.Plenty actually, for example this one
https://chapmanganato.com/manga-rh953142The world goddess is a self absorbed cunt who likes pretty stuff. She basically enforced selection among humans ot be pretty and treats non-humans like trash. Orcs (well, they are more like japanese orcs, being pig-like) are among those races that are forced to inhospitable regions and barely survive, they are presented as pretty chill and hospitable people.
For an isekai this one has a pretty interesting setting surprisingly.
>>23303Guts might be even more messed up than Casca was. Casca was never a beast like Guts, and more socially aware. She would probably not choose to run off to fight demons like Guts did. She'd probably stay with Guts, Rickert, Godot, and Erica. Apostles would probably keep showing up there, but all of them fighting together might be able to handle it.
The characters Guts meets and adds to his party would probably never enter the story. Without Puck, traveling to Elfhelm to heal Guts would be off the table. Without Schierke, they'd never meet Flora and find the Berserker armor. If you really wanted to force things to conform to the original story, you could just have Guts overpower any attempt to contain him and run off like Casca did in the Conviction arc, and have the plot be driven by Casca following Guts, who more or less follows the same path.
The biggest thing is probably the absence of moonboy unless Griffith is capable of impregnating Guts.
>>23305Interesting analysis, far more detailed than I thought I'd get.
>The biggest thing is probably the absence of moonboy unless Griffith is capable of impregnating Guts.Moonboy always felt out of place to me tbh but a violating MPreg aspect would be quite fitting for the bleakness of Berserk's setting.
>>23972Anarchism = Autonomy, not Equality
Nietzsche and Anarchism are compatible
>>23974
The IoE is not an expression of Nature itself, it is an expression of humanity’s rationalizing about Nature and the desires and actions of humans.
Evil is not an intrinsic factor of the Berserk universe, nor is good, these are human abstractions. Rather, enough humans believe in Evil and fate as the cause for their suffering rather than random chance and an indifferent universe, so as to give birth to an Entity whose only purpose is to give mankind what they most desired, Evil upon which good could then be transposed, and fate written over random chance. The IoE exists to give humans what they subconsciously want, a purpose. It is the Idea of Evil rather than good because humans conceptualized the notion of evil’s existence prior to good’s existence, as they found pain and suffering to be the exception, rather than pleasure and contentment.
Griffith is not a Nietzschean figure at all to me, he fully surrendered to his own ambition in the end and accepted being a pawn in the IoE’s plan to deliver Mankind its greatest desire beyond the existence of evil and fate, a Savior to save them from evil and lead them down a different fate.
>>23977Yes. Some major supporting characters just came back into the story after having been absent for a long time.
The art is noticeably different but still high quality and stylistically very similar. The biggest complaint people have had is that the dialogue is pretty sparse and the pacing is pretty fast. It seems like they don't want to add anything to the story beyond what Miura told his friend Mori the plot was going to be.
>>23988Indeed, and it is also bound to fate.
The IoE represents three distinctly human desires, reason, purpose, and salvation; humans desire reasons for suffering and thus invent evil as an explanation, they desire a purpose for the outcome of their lives and thus decide events must have been fated to happen as they did, and now that they have invented evil and fate they cry out for a savior to save them from evil and to change fate. That is what Griffith's reincarnation at the Tower of Conviction represents. That is why the IoE is called the Desired God.
>>1822935Lmao ngl I feel like you might have too many idealist natsoc spooks to understand the philosophy of Berserk
Amorality doesn't require good and evil existing anymore than atheism requires a god. Amorality is simply the state of things without humans assigning value judgments based on their own desire for pleasure and fear of pain.
>>25168Not exactly. It seems like there's some kind of magic involved, like a charm spell, and it's not fully effective. Given who all is in
Falconia at the moment it's likely that a
restored Casca is going to meet
the working girls she was with in the Conviction Arc. It also seems like Griffith was able to
find Elfhelm because moonboy could find Guts and Casca and he used the opportunity to show up.
>>24289Franky is based on Ace Ventura. The point is that they're not gonna get someone like Jim Carrey for a Netflix show, and Henry Cavill as Guts is similarly unlikely. Guts is also like half Cavill's age.
>>25170I was hoping for
some adventures with a restored casca and the gang since she got that elf ranger gear but I think you might be onto something with
the working girls.What I don't really get is why
Elfhelm and everyone on it disappeared but Puck is still around. Also
do we know how much time has passed since they were on Elfhelm? They said that they was a time dilation but it seems like a matter of months rather than years. I thought Rickert and the assassins were going to some hideout, so it's weird to see them in Kushan territory now, especially since Skellig was supposed to be in the north? idkWhat I really want to know now is
what's gonna happen to Guts. I was expecting him to get some kind of power up on Elf Island, but so much for that. His body is fucked and his armor is eating him alive, and this recent shit with Griffith shows that he's just not up to snuff. Maybe rasta grandad will realign his chakras or something but right now he's just fucked. And to add insult to injury
they fucking Yamcha'd him, god damn. >>25171Regarding Puck, he has been acting strangely and there might be something happening.
>Do we know how much time has passedNot very much considering:
<Moonboy only showed up once<Elfhelm is supposed to have some kind of time warp, but when Rickert shows up he is not noticeably older.
>KushanWell since
Ganishka is no longer around there's a power vacuum in the Kushan Empire. Daiba being one of the top guys seems to have backed Silat, who probably had some kind of claim to begin with. Given the status of the New Band of the Hawk, the Kushan probably are glad to fill the power vacuum. It's very possible however that the characters showed up there so quickly simply because the manga is being paced faster now. If it was Miura there might have been several issues of travel, but since it's not core to the story it's not being done by Mori. He said he was going to stick to the parts that Miura actually told him about and not really embellish too much.
>GutsHe didn't go to Elfhelm to power up, that was for Casca. Now that the group is
with the Kushan and all the Elfhelm witches, they will have the opportunity to do something for Guts. On the other hand, the whole theme of Guts being worn down from fighting may end up taking him out of the fight. He might end up being more of a symbol that others organize around. Consider how many people he already added to his party, and how powerful most of them are.
He probably has enough left in him to push to the end, but it seems like he's already past his peak. The story seems to be setting up a parallel situation to Skull Knight and Guts being threatened by being hollowed out by the armor and ending up like him. It makes more sense to set that up to subvert it by having him choose humanity, and that's basically what his whole arc has been about. Unlike
Gaiseric, Guts still has living people tying him to his humanity. That would mean
not fighting until he is consumed by the armor.
>>25172>It's very possible however that the characters showed up there so quickly simply because the manga is being paced faster now. If it was Miura there might have been several issues of travel, but since it's not core to the story it's not being done by Mori. He said he was going to stick to the parts that Miura actually told him about and not really embellish too much.That's the impression that I got, yeah. To be honest I don't really know how to feel about this. On the one hand I think it's noble to try and respect Miura's vision for the story, but on the other I don't think trying to remain strictly faithful to whatever details Miura imparted really accomplished that.
First, whatever he mentioned to Mori might have been true at the time, but any writer will tell you that the story develops as it is written. New ideas pop up, themes change in sometimes unexpected ways, and the writer's perspective on things can also change. I think it's obvious just by reading Berserk that the Miura of 1990 and of 2021 were very different as artists and writers.
Second, I think the embellishments were a major contributor to Berserk as a story itself, both in its art and its writing. Part of what makes the characters and the world so fascinating are all the little details, and there's lots of extraneous information that sets up stuff for later or contributes to making the world feel much larger and alive than otherwise.
To put it simply, if the point is to honor Miura's work by "not embellishing it" (or adulterating it) with creative input from Mori, then just cancel it now. Miura has always had an insanely high standard for Berserk, and publishing a hollow version of that does a disservice to everyone involved in it. What we're getting is an interpretation of Miura by Mori anyway, so if that's how things are going to be then he should fully commit and do the story as Miura would, embellishments and all.
>He didn't go to Elfhelm to power up, that was for Casca. Well sure, but something has to change for Guts to keep on Gutsing. Guts was only just keeping pace with apostles even after getting the berserker armor, but now even with it he's basically constantly convalescent. I thought he was going to get some kind of improvement when visiting the dorf that made the armor, but that doesn't seem possible now.
I don't think it's possible for Guts to step back and not fight, primarily because people have been waiting 30 years for the showdown with Griffith, but as far as the story is concerned humans can't compete with apostles and monsters. You could argue that the hawk had the element of surprise, but we still see 500 war demons rout a kushan army of 250,000.
I don't know, I guess we'll see, but without a whole new body at least it's hard to imagine how Guts can keep going. And now they're in fantasy India and our homeboy can't even sweat, god damn.
>>25174>On the one hand I think it's noble to try and respect Miura's vision for the story, but on the other I don't think trying to remain strictly faithful to whatever details Miura imparted really accomplished that. Yeah a lot of people feel that way, and they seem to be getting more comfortable with filling in some of the empty space. The chapters have been getting more dialogue, which was notably very very sparse right after they took over.
> but any writer will tell you that the story develops as it is written.True, but Mori said that Miura had the big picture outlined from early on and not much had changed. Regardless, it's not just Miura's work any more. It's Studio Gaga's, and just like Guts's friends they are doing the part of the job that he couldn't. I agree it would be better if they took more ownership of the story as they get more comfortable with taking over. The abruptness of his death probably influenced how they initially decided to approach it. Maybe with more time they will soften on that stance.
>I thought he was going to get some kind of improvement when visiting the dorf that made the armorHe is more in need of an upgrade to the Dragonslayer
since it doesn't hurt Griffith. If anybody can help with that, it's probably the one character shown capable of
hitting Griffith. >>25175>Regardless, it's not just Miura's work any more. It's Studio Gaga's, and just like Guts's friends they are doing the part of the job that he couldn't.That's true. I guess ultimately it would just break my heart for Berserk to end up limping to the finish line, being broken up into "the great part when Miura was alive" and then "the lousy ending."
>RickertYou know, I hadn't thought of that but he was
Goto's apprentice. And Silat has shown off some pretty funky weapons in the past, so maybe time in the Kushan empire has exposed him to new smithing techniques. The strength of the dragon slayer seemed to be in all the animus it had absorbed by killing demons, but some sort of upgrade doesn't seem out of the question. Maybe to Gut's arm, too? Rickert seems to be something of a mechanical genius, and Guts is already using what looks like individual charges in his cannon. Making the next logical step to all in one shells would make sense. >>25176In
Rickert's first appearance he's already maintaining weapons and is later shown using a more advanced
repeating crossbow, like a gatling gun version. 100% being set up as a weapon master.
Rickert's slap also implies that there's some factor needed that Guts doesn't have and obviously is independent of the inherent damage a weapon would grant. The angle with
The Dragonslayer being imbued with power from the apostles seems likely, especially since
Guts actually did hit Griffith, but only severed one strand of hair. I'd speculate that in kind with
The apostles, Godhand, and IoE, the feelings and beliefs someone has about Griffith affect their ability to hurt him. Griffith lives rent free in Guts's head as a symbol of evil that has been out of his reach for years. Rickert didn't have a similar relationship to Griffith or witness the Eclipses so wouldn't have the same baggage. >>25177>The dragonslayerI think when Schierke is introduced there's a scene where she sees a black aura coming from the sword. I can't remember if it's her or someone else that theorizes that its absorbed malice from all the monster Gutts has killed with it, making it a supernatural weapon akin to the magic weapons that Serpico and Isidro use.
>the slapYou could be onto something there. I think the difference is that
Rickert wasn't personally wronged by Griffith like Gutts was, and so his retribution isn't an act of personal vengeance but is more righteous retribution. Iirc he admonishes Griffy about how it was Rickert that had to bury all their comrades.
So I suppose Gutts' "upgrade" could be putting his personal vengeance aside in order to avenge the band of the hawk as a whole, if that makes sense.
Nevermind, it turns out I had mixed up Beast in Black with a different band called Battle Beast.
Battle Beast did the song Band of the Hawk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lEhUf4ip-I>>25183An interpretation from one of the comments:
0:00:00 Beast in Black : The Beast of Darkness in Guts mind.
0:04:29 Blind and Frozen : Griffith lamenting about letting Guts go.
0:09:32 Blood of a Lion : Guts courage or the Millenium Falcon Empire arc for Griffith ?
0:14:35 Born Again : Subtle mix between Griffith feelings for Guts, Charlotte feeling for Griffith, and the symbolism of Femto's birth ?
0:18:26 Zodd the Immortal : Well… Zodd the Immortal.
0:22:00 The Fifth Angel : The rise of Griffith as Femto.
0:25:30 Crazy Mad Insane : Guts rage against the Griffith (don't know why there's a cybernetic voice lmao).
0:28:57 Hell for all Eternity : Causality and the horrifying twist of the afterlife.
0:33:43 Eternal Fire : ?? The thrill of the fight ?
0:37:15 Go to Hell : Guts raging about Apostles
0:40:15 End of the World : ???
0:45:23 Ghost in the Rain : Desperate Guts and Skullknight under the rain after the Eclipse. Also a lovesong to Casca.
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