You know how whenever there's anime primarily aimed at male audiences with romance as a core element, there's always some quotient of dudes responding to it like this? I've long held that these sure are some joyless ghouls, but after some deliberation, I think it's even worse… Most of you are hopefully aware of how much denigration romantic content aimed at women has seen through the ages and even today. Because if women like something but men don't, clearly that something must be of "low value". The whole thing is obviously deeply rooted in misogyny.
Even today, romance in fiction is a very "girl-coded" interest. Thus if a man happens to like romance, eventually they're going to run into toxic masculinity denigrating them for it. How they'll "get no bitches and stack no paper". A mere interest in romance makes them "weak". And it's incredibly obvious how surface level these kind of judgments are. These dudes see "romance" and just refuse to look any further due to toxic masculinity and misogyny.
>>19444I agree with you, but the animes in that image are particularly "bad" because they have strong female leads, nagatoro being the most obvious and the komi the most subtle. anime male protagonists are, in general, allowed to be bland and weak, as long as the female counterparts are even more shy and timid, and the protagonist is able to "stand up" whenever the plot requires it
but having strong female leads is specially emasculating so the authors have to either go even greater lengths to prove that the male protagonist is actually strong and reliable, or fully embrace the
humiliation fetish (sometimes they do both but it doesn't really work)
anyway my point is that, in this case in particular, the problem isn't romance but
figurative castration. the average power fantasy isekai where the main character is basically omnipotent usually includes romance and otakus don't have a problem with that
>>19446ideology. I mean, look around you, we live in misogynist societies
but as I said, some authors fully embrace the concept, the nagatoro one is explicitly about the girl humiliating the protagonist
>>19444I think this way about people who like Rent-a-Girlfriend, actually.
Who in their sane mind would find the romantization of fake relationships with petty bourgeois golddiggers as something desirable? Otaku probably.
TFW you sell all of your possesions just to afford your "girlfriend."
>>19454>They are not actually all that different, so by mocking one you are effectively mocking the other as wellMocking the genre that has its roots in works written by female writers does not equate mocking those female writers for being female. It's like saying that someone dislikes jazz or hip-hop because they hate black people. That's just jumping to conclusions.
>>19455>ohhhhhh we got a big boy here he hates "otaku"Said me when never. Just because I point out others' disdain for otaku doesn't mean I share that disdain.
>>19456I honestly like strong leads regardless of gender and sexuality. Or at least leads who have a spine. I mean, spine is nice to have…
Moe is fine though.
>>19444it's just people getting mad at people liking media that they don't like that harms no one other than their feelings.
honestly the older i get, more i see people only act like this to get kicks of lording over other people's likes.
in other words, ignore people that never paid you a beer when they say something about a media being good or bad.
>>19465Jesus Maria Joseph, that is a lot of buzzwords.
even then, none of what you say show why any of these shows are bad really, maybe they are not for you, most of the things in the world aren't made for anyone in particular.
>>19467I enjoyed it as a light SoL and that was it. It's subtle jabs at Japanese karoshi were also interesting. Not worth more than its single season but nice enough.
>>19469>B-buzzwords LOL no
>none of what you say show why any of these shows are bad Are you incapable of reading? The main issue here is that the take that "it's mysoginist" and "muh romance is not valued by le toxic male" is a fucking lie and the OP is just shitting themselves.
As for the shows, I personally found some amusement from Uzaki, but Nagatoro is trash (see
>>8746 ) and generally these shows are repetitive and usually boring self insert fantasies for people that are far too miserable with their actual lives and instead of trying to self-actualize they escape into it and that is exactly the demographic that these anime's are aimed to. They are LITERALLY bait for people lacking romantic love in real life.
>>19470>Y-you are s-stutteringnot really an argument mate.
>Are you incapable of reading?No, just disinterested in your post after you showed to be too emotional about a bunch of soapy rom-com anime that you don't like, so i did not spare any attention, guess the shitty meme helped in that.
and while i feel the OP is stretching in the claims that these that don't like these animes must be because misoginy, i ain't gonna ignore the tweet that you claim is correct is just calling people virgin for liking things they don't like, a very CoD lobby behavior if you ask me.
>and usually boring self insert fantasies for people that are far too miserable with their actual lives and instead of trying to self-actualize they escape into it and that is exactly the demographic that these anime's are aimed to. They are LITERALLY bait for people lacking romantic love in real life.or, you know, for people that like these types of romances and stories and want to watch them, or find it amusing (like you did for uzaki), or in the case of nagatoro, appeals for their masochism and seeing dominant woman, not exclusively to no-lives wants to replace their inexistent love life with these shows through self-insertion.
while at the question of self-inserting, it is a very common thing in all media involving romance and action media in general, not just in anime, to claim everyone that consumes such things are all or majority are lifeless loosers is a stretch that end up being just name-calling.
>>19472>or in the case of nagatoro, appeals for their masochism and seeing dominant woman, not exclusively to no-lives wants to replace their inexistent love life with these shows through self-insertion.You know, I should be prime audience for that show. I decided to check it out specifically because that is something I am into. What turned me off wasnt being against the premise, exact opposite, its the fact that it was bad in every respect. Like what is the point of that show? Cheap animation, one-dimensional characters, literally no story, embarrassingly unfunny comedy. You want to enjoy it? Fine, who cares, you do you, but dont come arguing with people for pointing out undeniable fact its pure dogshit.
>>19472>not really an argument<you used a stutter in a reply once oooh oooh aaah aaahOk monkey I'll explain to you; you didn't have an argument, so you received none in return for that inanity.
>after you showed to be too emotional Stopped right there. You're baiting. This entire thread is based on an emotional liberal lashing out over a boogieman that doesn't exist except in your own intersectional mind.
>calling people virgin for liking things they don't like <I'm not the emotional one chimping out over a cynically humorous, yet accurate comment about a low-brow consumer media, you are for calling me out Ah yes, the tumblr school of "everyone I don't like is [insert a particular flavor of libpol]" argument.
>CoD lobby behavior if you ask meNobody asked you, get thicker skin snowflake.
>for people that like these types of romances and stories <SoL anime HAHAHAHAHAHA no. Other people may enjoy them, but the Japanese are voracious capitalists and know exactly the market they're exploring, and the hyperconsumerist insanity of the main demographic - autistic, lonely, infantile weeaboos and otaku that religiously buy their merchandise, watch their low effort, samefaced products etc. etc.
Romance? Don't make me laugh, that's not what these shows even are and you've been online too long if you think those shows are "romance" and not just cutesy shit for the sake of cutesy shit.
>or find it amusing Like I said, that is not the main demographic, people finding enjoyment from it aren't invested in it like that. I'm not buying the merchandise or talking constantly about it. I enjoyed the simple cuteness and moved on, the people the twitter post is referring to? Aren't moving on, they just go from one to the next ad infinitum like an addict seeking their fix.
>in the case of nagatoro, appeals for their masochism <promoting abusive relationships is good actually>dominant woman uwu<an underage brat Are you retarded?
>it is a very common thing in all media involving romance and action media in general No. RELATING to characters is a common thing in media. People seem to have conflated self-insertion with this and think it's a good thing. There's a reason SI is a derided writing trope - it makes for lazy fantasies 90% of the time unless it's a truly good effort. Those shows are not it.
>r majority are lifeless loosers is a stretch that end up being just name-calling.Oh no someone called you a name on the internet, whatever will you do?!
>>19475 >thread was having a civil discussion The thread barely began, if you honestly thought that you wouldn't get an unfiltered response from someone, you're delusional. It also wasn't any more civil or less mocking than usual; (see posts 19456, 19453, 19455, 19451 etc.)
>complaining about greentext on a Hyperborean mammoth herding forum Are you high?
>channer Where do you think you are?
TL;DR: Stop being a bitch, just because some anons called your radlib blogposts out.
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>19516Is it by any means related to the Japanese male-oriented romcom not having any lewd elements anymore or are female writers perfectly fine with the erotic stuff?
I've just noticed a trend where male Japs are increasingly watching slice-of-life anime that is so utterly devoit of controversial material that it might as well be shown to pre-teens. Liking cute girls apparently makes you do a 180 on the target demographic Initial D-style.
>>19518Do Nagatoro and Uzaki-chan have lewd material? I know that Uzaki-chan has big bazongas but that's about it.
Please, be patient, I'm a JoJo fan.
>>19528>Something Awful users felt when Tumblr discovered DanganronpaI… what? How is that at all comparable? This is a conversation within the anime community, not some outsiders jumping into a fandom.
>People act like it’s fine to insult people for liking a random romcom Yeah, because it's just words on the internet, getting offended over that is childish, especially if you then try to hide this "hurt feels" with a failed attempt at "analyzing" 'the haters'.
>it’s actually the fan’s fault for getting annoyed LMFAO. I've been a Naruto fan for years, it is literally impossible to go to a site or forum and not get at least one response going on about "le narutards". Does it annoy me? A little, but at the end of the day I don't give a real fuck because, unless the person has a valid argument or cutting commentary, it's meaningless. The OP image makes a succinct point with the post stating an honest, cutting remark about the genre of cheap, aimless SoL being bait for people that are essentially "bitchless", it's true, that is the demographic it is meant to aim for, regardless of if others outside that demographic also watch it. Being offended about some guys off-hand post in the depths of twitter only implies that you feel called out, because subconsciously you may think it's true to you. You want to prove them wrong? Don't make rants on the internet about "le mean toxic males" and just ignore people, like any mature adult would.
TL;DR: Normies and anime becoming more mainstream has introduced a bunch of n00bs that are incapable of accepting that a show they may enjoy is objectively trash, and can't stop caring about the opinions of others instead of enjoying the guilty pleasure and accepting that, like junk food, it's not really good, even if it's pleasing.
>>19528>cute co-workerWow, that's refreshing! Finally, something outside of the school setting, good grief!
>This must be how the Something Awful users felt when Tumblr discovered Danganronpa*screams in despair*
>>19528Uzaki is an okay romcom, it didn't deserve to be subjected to weekly Discourse(tm) or get the most cancerous defenders of all time.
The show about the womanlet coworker isn't even out and it's already being used for the Discourse(tm) too, amazing.
>>19651>with that being relegated to early Koneko or the opponentsDon't forget about the gang of women in the beginning. The guy was getting beaten to near-death. I'm not even sure if that was supposed to be a joke.
He should def get a katana and make a sushi out of them.
>>19656One of my favorites. Also, I just remembered anime that is nothing but best girls.
Please Japan, give a harem anime whose entire cast is composed of various flavours of ultraviolent women.
>>19659LOL, I like this meme.
>Eh, a bunch of girls wacking him with a stick for actually being a perv with intention (even if his homies made him not see any nip) is realisticIt is realistic BUT:
1) unlikely because they legit acted like
Nintendo's legal team Japanese yakuza, and;
2) they're still kind of assholes.
>"uwu he accidentally saw my pantsu time to knock his head off!"I mean, it's also pretty realistic. But IRL other people would think that this girl is an emotionally unstable psycho.
>>19662>Nintendo's legal team LOL
>assholes To be fair, unlike other animu they actually have a reason to not like him, he's been pulling this shit for 2 years at this point.
> it's also pretty realistic Not really, I've seen some nip slip by accident, and had an almost anime-tier situation where I saw some girls panties by accident. It was mostly just embarrassment and a silent pretending nothing happened.
>>19663>Uchi no Kaisha no ChiiblahblahblahThose darn Japanese anime titles.
>he's been pulling this shit for 2 years at this pointIs he retarded?
>It was mostly just embarrassment and a silent pretending nothing happenedThat's a reaction of a mentally stable person. Now, imagine if she was a Karen.
>>19529>objectively trash/v/ moment
>enjoying the guilty pleasure and accepting that, like junk food, it's not really good, even if it's pleasing.being an "anime is trash and so am i XD" ironic weeaboo is pathetic. if you like something, own it
>>19663Man, she really is tiny AF.
>>19670>if you like something, own itI still don't understand that spooky "guilt" in "guilty pleasure." If you want to watch tatas, YOU GO AND WATCH TATAS, GODDAMNIT.
>No gender is safe from the assault against love, the ultimate resistance against capitalismThat sounds like a cheesy line a Christian socialist might say.
>Selfish love is very far from unselfish, mystical, or romantic love. One can love every possible thing, not just human beings, but any “object” at all (wine, one’s fatherland, etc.). Love becomes blind and crazy through a must taking it out of my power (infatuation), romantic through a should entering into it, i.e., through the “object” becoming sacred to me, or through me becoming bound to it by duty, conscience, oath. Now the object is no longer there for me, but I for it.>>Love is a case of being possessed, not as my feeling—as such I prefer to keep them in my possession as property—but through the alienness of the object. Thus, religious love consists precisely in the commandment to love the “sacred one” in the beloved, or to cling to a sacred one; for unselfish love, there are absolutely lovable objects for which my heart is supposed to beat, for example, fellow human beings, or the spouse, relatives, etc. Sacred love loves the sacred in the beloved, and therefore also strives more and more to make the beloved into a sacred being (for example a “human being"). >>19665I assume your other parts are responding to
>>19664 about DxD.
>Is he retarded? No, he's a perv and a hormonal, teenager that keeps thinking with his dick (which gets him killed to begin with). Is it dumb? Yes, but so are a lot of teen guys, and it's a bit exaggerated for the sake of humor.
>imagine if she was a Karen Gonna be honest with you, that "termin" is blatantly overused and often applied out of context. Also what does that have to do with this?
>>19670 >Everyone is muh /v! Eat lead, you're unironically a shitter of the worst kind.
>"anime is trash and so am i XD" Nice strawman you got there.
>if you like something, own it <coming from the guy seething about some randos opinion about their low-brow ecchi animeLook in the mirror, touch grass, go outside, you are psychotic.
>>19678SAO set a benchmark for how low-effort anime can get and still be successful enough to turn a profit. That said Alicization was ok, but at that point I was just bored with the entire concept of VRMMORPG.
>>19668 Virtually, yes. Also the chapter that descibes it (Chapter 16.5) is fucked up, NGL. SomethingWittyEntertainment did a reading of it and I was laughing the entire time at how cringe it was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L17OayixcJg There are many decent romances out there, made by both male and female, and many that are appreciated commonly such that it is difficult to notice much stigma nowadays, but the amount of anime productions that is "pure wish fulfillment" is not the most preferable. Classic shoujo should have some sort of comeback!
>>19445Those female leads of the anime in the O.P.'s image in question are more what males, in their current gaze, imagine to be "strong" female leads, but are not necessarily strong female leads in reality; similar to the overly servile types of female characters, such "strong" characters are made for some predominantly male target-demographic and thus ultimately still subordinated to the male consumers' desire.
There definitely are many good female anime-characters, but the ones, out of them, that can be said to be good as female characters uniquely or as decently feminist exemplars aren't easily found non-esoterically.>>19452Romance series for target-demographics of women are not very similar to those sorts of "romance" stories, similar to those in O.P., people ITT have critiqued, so the issue isn't very much misogyny. It's like how people don't think of
Oniisama He… when they criticize the oversupply of too to-otaku-pandered S.o.L. content.
>>19848Ok, but that's not really what's going on here, at all.
Person A - is making a sarcastic comment about low-effort ecchi romcom harem SoL, and how its trashy escapism.
Person B - gets mad over a passing casual comment and makes a blogpost about it here. There is no High Internet Intellectualism here.
Also that image is inane, it's the same tier of argument as "Oh you've never made a movie before? You can't criticize one then!" or "You're the one that watched this, so you can't criticize!" ignoring the fact that criticizing what you don't know is usually wrong.
>>19444Urusei Yatsura, Your Lie in April, Tatami Galaxy, etc. There's plenty of well-respected romantic anime, including a lot of girl-coded stuff, and they even usually have an element of self-insertion or escapism to them. But they don't define themselves entirely around vicariously experiencing perfect love. That's the difference (and genuine question for people who think the image in the OP is wrong, how much of the audience for Komi-san do you think feels romantically satisfied in their real life?)
Whether it's in stupid harem isekai or throwaway high school romcoms, everyone realizes on some level that escapism – i.e., literally and deliberately ignoring reality – is not something that should be celebrated. It's surprising that in an imageboard for "leftists" no one in this thread has attempted to question the dynamic of studios making tons of cash by selling temporary relief from the crisis of loneliness that affects all demographics in current society
Instead of media that makes you briefly feel less lonely, why don't people make media that actually helps people -be- less alone? Media that shows the commonalities between people instead of encouraging misanthropy, that gives lonely people the courage to actually put themselves out there, that helps people understand each other instead of presenting idealized smoothed-over characters that don't resemble actual human beings? So much media today just feels like it breeds further isolation between people, why defend shit that encourages its audience to dig themselves deeper into the "2D>3D" hole?
But oh yeah you're not actually supposed to think about media on any level beyond just "I like it/I don't like it" - guy who's probably in another thread right now proclaiming himself to be the only real Marxist who ever lived
>>19444I agree. Any male-oriented romance stories always hve to make the male charactes be chivalrous goofballs and the love interest be dainty dames.
>>19848This. Another thing thats highly pathologised are youth oriented stuff. People complain about discrimination against the old but kids/teens are condemned for having media genres made for them.
Anything made for kids is always gobbled up and whined about by adults.
>>23731whats your problem, m8?
Alex Jones didnt drop a new episode fast enough and youre suffering from news withdrawal.
>>21173Theres alot of entertainment that is mostly misanthropic.
Look at adult comedy or even plain old action movies.
Misanthropy is the main theme or unsaid but prominent.
>>23738What is up with ypu guys? why is there sudeen hostility in this board?
Do you guys need TRT?
Only ever see that on algorithm sites. People don't act like that without artificial clout incentive.
>>19466Oh no the chvdjak exception on the soyjak ban backfired, now they're just using chxddy even when it doesn't make sense.
>>19444Crazy to think about the shift in culture in the west around slice of life anime lol. Feel like 15 years ago even bocchi would be regarded as "the problem with anime".
People who only consume shounen jump works still exist and are very loud but there are way more people open to the idea of "cute girls doing cute things" these days.
>>23952eyy. don't frequent here but nice to be greeted by a bokuyaba post. still have to finish the anime. first time following an adaptation of something i've read and it's lovely.
>>19707>tonari no oneesannice to know. it's in my radar thanks to lostinanime. i believe it's the same author as that fluffy megane girl and it's already adapted, but i'll be honest that i'm just more interested in
おねショタ.
>>26016 (me)
I must clarify that genre conventions are not bad (battle shounen is based if the amount of filler is reduced). I'm saying that certain genre conventions are rather lame and boring and make the work less fun.
>>26016>>26017so you like rape, got it
a solid +90% of shoujo/josei romance is about rape and coercion against the female protagonist. kabedon for example is as common of a trope as pantyshots is in shounen, and notice the violent and coercive undertone and subtext it carries
>>26020I mean, look at the recent anime seasons, right now the one shoujo romance is about a girl that gets killed by her husband, reincarnates, and then falls in love with a guy that abducts her at age 10 (ten)
last season it was another isekai but the girl fell in love with her murderer (that she is completely scared of)
before that it was that one about a girl that liked to make pastries and fell in love with her bodyguard (a fairy or something) that tried to kill her at some point
there is a scene in watamote were tomoko makes a male voice actor repeat cliche phrases, most of those were about rape, that was the joke, this is common knowledge to the point of self-reference
>>26023Wow, hibristophilia is
that widespread in the female fandom? Or is that male otakus infiltrating shoujo? Why would women enjoy this? I don't understand.
>>26029 (me)
Although if you think about it, rape is indeed connected with the contempt for women… I dunno.
>>26020 (me)
Okay, okay, but what about josei and seinen tbough? Surely they must be better.
>>26031josei is the same as shoujo, and it is becoming increasingly rare to see anime for that demography. seinen is the same as shounen. the main difference is that seinen and josei don't include furigana and use more difficult kanji, but that's irrelevant if you are reading translated manga
did you watch giji harem last season? there is hamefura from a couple seasons ago too (although it eventually reverts back to the tropes). or the weird world of shounen but by female authors and with female protagonists
with that said, imo anime and manga are acquired tastes and one should learn to accept the defects of the genre rather than waste time looking for "good exceptions"
>>26032>seinen is the same as shounenReally? Then I especially have no idea why shounen works don't get published in seinen tankobons…
>the weird world of shounen but by female authors and with female protagonistsMale protagonists aren't the issue. It's how they and the female leads are written that is. Also, too much romcom leans too heavily into wish fulfillment I think, the female leads are idealized, and I'm simply not interested in this. And it's not because I'm a girl or gay or anything, it just feels a bit fake, this trick does not really work on my psyche. Maybe I'm becoming more demanding with age.
>imo anime and manga are acquired tastes and one should learn to accept the defects of the genre rather than waste time looking for "good exceptions"You have a point. I'm not like Miyazaki or Anno, I even like some tropes and cliches. But even I have the limit. Funny thing: despite generally being somewhat of a "hipster" I seem to enjoy mainstream anime more. It's only when I delve into the niche stuff do I keep stepping on nails. Also, seasonal anime is my worst nightmare, and it's all overwhelmingly shounen romcoms and isekais that are wildly varying in quality (mostly mid).
In conclusion, I hate seasonals.
>>26033>don't get published in seinen tankobonsfurigana. it would be hard to sell a volume to a high-school student if they can't read the text, and it would be hard (but not impossible) to publish an isekai -type fantasy for example as seinen because the genre uses kanji that aren't commonly used anywhere else and most people don't know how to read
if you read translations you have probably encountered dialogues centered around what seem to be rather self-evident words or phrases, but what is probably happening is that the author is explaining a certain combination of kanji and it obviously gets lost in the translation. in fact, I'm sure there are fan-made japanese-to-japanese dictionaries for isekai commonly used kanji
>>26048 (me)
I'd also recommend watching Read or Die. Readman is adorable.
>>26056 (me)
Btw, hentai was better.
>>19445>even more shy and timidIt's qute the opposite, the female leads take a more proactive role as confident and popular girls who rescue loser MCs from their maidenless status. The pairings would actually be more balanced if the girls weren't so idealized (by the writers at least, it's okay for the MCs to idealize FLs, my youth is a testament *sign*).
>>26062reading comprehension. the first paragraph establishes a comparison between the anime listed in the now defunct OP image and anime
in general. this is, the common trope in anime is that, if the male character is shy, then the girl(s) are at least as shy as he is; but in the anime with strong female leads, this trope either goes away completely (humiliation fetish) or it happens at a lower layer so to speak: the male character either turns out to be, or becomes, strong and redeems himself towards the end
in the end, the male character has to either be the lead, or enjoy not being the lead, which is humiliating in the context of anime/manga, but the character comes on top by appropriating and actually enjoying that humiliation. to be vulgar, in regular anime the male is the top, and in fetish anime the male is the power bottom or
top from the bottom. these patterns also repeat themselves in homosexual relations, it is called seme/uke in yaoi and neko/tachi in yuri. note that these words are only used in the context of homosexuality because in heterosexual relations it is always assumed, as I have explained, that the male is the seme/neko
of course there are exceptions, but this is the common pattern. if you want exceptions, as a general rule I would recommend looking up the age of the author. older authors are more likely to try to subvert or ignore the usual tropes. young authors are usually in a more precarious position so they stick to the known craft
>>26071they want to jump on his dick from second 1, and usually for some moronic reason like "I met him once when we were 5 years old and he was very polite"
but they are too shy to express it so you can enjoy 12 episodes / 10 volumes of them being dorks
that's another very important trope, it has to be either the women themselves approaching or some extraordinary circumstance forcing the main characters to interact with each other. anime where it is the man that decides to approach are the exception, and curiously, it is almost restricted to porn (think of rance). the main character is supposed to redeem or assert himself later on
I have nothing but contempt for all of this, but it is what we have
>>26091MPDG is not a bad trope if it's executed well. The problem with shonen romcoms is that the girl in question is usually a school idol or a gyaru. Make MPDG more "manic" and less "dream" and the character dynamic will be more balanced.
We should just collectively boycott shonen romcoms. With a few exceptions.>>26091
>>26092I absolutely love whimsical,extroverted female characters who are determined to coax the cynical, withdrawn male protagonist back into opening himself to life, humanity and the world.
They should just not exist only for him. She should have things going on in her life that don't always center on him, and she has beliefs and dreams and desires that aren't all about him.
She is, in other words, a good romantic interest because she is a whole person in addition to being the one who will grab your wrist and make you, in the name of love, touch grass.
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