/anime/ - Anime

this is not exclusive to anime and manga fans, unfortunately.

>>>blatantly reactionary loli-avatar culture war types
<SJW morons who think sex is evil and make the most superficial video essay brained criticisms

i always wondered how these too never cancel each other out, the reactionary delights in the offensive, irreverent, morally repugnant & borderline illegal, these are not sensibilities traditional to the right in any way, in fact they are often directly in opposition to traditional values. the "progressive" on the other side works to strictly limit freedom of expression in an almost perfect contrast, repurposing moral panics and cultural puritanism from bygone era.

how does something which seems too hypocritical to be true, come to be? and how can one practically oppose or avoid it?

>>26732
I'm 50% in each of the first two

Are they still making a million isekai anime's every season? I havent kept up in a few years but it was slop city back then in regards to isekai.

its not hard to find nerds who can keep it "normal" on the internet

>>26739
Yeah.

There definitely needs to be a real analysis and commentary on a genre whose fundamental character boils down to "a person so alienated by their current life can only escape it through death and their primary method of wish fulfillment is using their pleasurable hobbies as means to achieve success in the next life."

>>26741
Sure, but do they have good taste?
>>26739
It's slowing down but it refuses to die.
>>26733
Speaking only anecdotally from someone who saw the whole thing grow, it feels like the Western left's inability to win concrete major victories since
the rise of neoliberalism gave rise to an intellectual vacuum that became filled by grifters who, unable to promise real change or unity, got everyone to switch to an individualistic, exclusionary politics of resentment and moral correctness which could at least promise symbolic victories (as well as the perpetual leftie thrill of getting to call your family unenlightened rubes).

You're also forgetting the obnoxious oldheads

abandon fandoms. they've sucked and will always suck. (but I'll admit they suck harder now.) talk to your friends who watch anime. create your own little space irl or on the internet because just liking anime or even liking the same series honestly means nothing about how any two people will get along

>>26732
>fandoms are unbearable
Shocker
>seasonal and shonen kiddies
Those are just normies who don't know any better. And not every shonen anime is bad. Just most of it.
>blatantly reactionary loli-avatar culture war types who see themselves as "gatekeepers"
Ironic since those are the same people who call others degenerate and hate gay people despite them not being uncommon in anime even before all this GamerGate shit happened.
>and literally only care about fanservice and mindless violence because they mean a manga is "based" and sticking it to the cucks
I mean, I'm not judging. If someone enjoys sex and violence in their entertainment then I see no issues with that.
>and hate classics like Utena or Ghibli stuff because they have too much appeal to the wrong crowd
This is some hipster brainrot they have.
>did you know young superheroes are literally "child soldiers" and should be treated as such?
Isn't that Eva's premise tho?
>Is it possible to talk about anything these days without having to either walk around eggshells to avoid offending people who will assume a million things about you based on your tastes and choice of words, or tolerate the company of literal Nazis?
Yes. Talk to me. I'm here for you. Being honest with each other and having a genuine conversation is way better than putting on a smile in front of the people you hate. Don't be like Patrick Bateman.

>>26751
>>26750
The problem with fandoms is that the people within them always wanna philosophise everything from their franchises into real life.

I cannot count how many videos thumbnails I see talking about "Is (insert fictional characters here) a (insert pathology here)"?

>Those are just normies who don't know any better. And not every shonen anime is bad. Just most of it.

Why cannot people just enjoy things without people pathologising them for it?

>>26746
Theres also weird defenses for slavery and sometimes monarchy in isekai shit.

>>26756
also the obsession with videogame mechanics even when it doesn’t really fit into the setting, absolutely 0 creativity or care.

>>26756
Yeah, that's pretty weird.

>>26757
I think that's another ideological artifact of the wish fulfillment aspect. With RPGs effort always results in some sort of cumulative progress or gain, which is the opposite of capitalist society.

>>26756
I mean, it's fine if slavery is just a BDSM fantasy and monarchy is just a setting but when the author is trying to imply that these things are cool then it weirds me out.

All internet fandoms are unbearable I'd say.
Doesn't mean you cannot share your thoughts but it's really hard to come across thoughtful posts unless you're actively outputting your own.

X is shit for this though, it was supposed to be a microblogging site to post about your epic lunch for today or to inform everyone that follows you that you happen to be posting from the shitter - it got too big for its own good and now people try to use for long deb8s even when the medium itself is actively hostile against this usage.

>>26751
>Isn't that Eva's premise tho?
I wouldn't say so. The central premise of Eva according to Anno [1] is a classical toku / super robot setting of invaders being repelled by a super weapon, but the catch is that our protagonists are very neurotic and afraid of pain instead of being classically gung-ho and courageous, and this angle is explored in depth.

I'm not saying the kid hero = child soldier thing is not part of the show because it is, but it's not the premise.
Zambot 3 is the show you're looking for if you want to explore that aspect as a central point of the plot.

[1] : http://www.evamonkey.com/writings_anno01.php

I just watch anime with my friends I don't care about fandoms.

>>26767
>I just watch anime with my friends I don't care about fandoms.
Gigachad. The best way to enjoy things is in a company of friends. Although I assume going to conventions could be fun too.

>>26757
I think this is so the author/mangaka doesnt have to develop their world as much.

>>26766
I mean, that's just it. Evangelion is a show in conversation with it's genre and does have subversive elements, but A. it's hardly unique in that regard, and B. it's not the full-bore, groundbreaking deconstruction that it sometimes gets hyped as. Not shittalking the show, it's one of my favorites, but Hideaki Anno isn't Alan Moore. A lot of the moves it pulls were already explored by Mobile Suit Gundam, especially the whole "young hero = child soldier" angle. In a lot of ways you can read Evangelion as in conversation with Gundam

The way the western fandom received it is like if someone watched Invincible or The Dark Knight trilogy and went "THIS is a NEVER BEFORE SEEN GROUNDBREAKING SUBVERSION" without knowing that Watchmen already exists

>>26775 (me)
hell, I'd say the truly "subversive" take on mecha from the genre's heyday is picrel.
>What if mecha really existed
<Things would continue to be boring and lame, they'd be utilitarian pieces of shit that break all the time and can't even jump, and the real revolution that's happening is media culture and computerization, mecha would just be another heavy-industrial artifact of late capitalism

>>26775
>The way the western fandom received it is like if someone watched Invincible or The Dark Knight trilogy and went "THIS is a NEVER BEFORE SEEN GROUNDBREAKING SUBVERSION" without knowing that Watchmen already exists
Damn, you're right. But that's exactly what happened with The Dark Knight and Invincible. I bought into that myself, I must admit.

>>26779
Yeah, and again, this isn't a slam on those things, but in order to get what they're doing, you kind of have to keep in mind they didn't invent that kind of "subversive" cape story, they're in conversation with and elaborating on those things. Same with Evangelion and mecha

I wish being a freak otaku who doesnt mind "degenerate" art and a far-left extremist who think all right wingers should be opressed wasnt as uncommon as it is
Maybe im a hentai addict, maybe i like japan too much for someone who calls herself a commie (in my defense, I also like china and the good korea) but i hate how all "leftists" on sites like twitter say about anime is calling all weebs degen over drawings while all the weebs who dont act like this are nazi cunnybros. "proshippers" are kinda better and while im tecnically one, the overall comunity is full of libshits who defend real sex work and make being into problematic fiction a culture war

>>26930
its gotten difficult as hell to find community in anime circles
as you say, it's only extreme reactionaries that treat loli porn like its a swastica or puritan libshits that think drawing and/or watching anime porn makes you a child rapist

>>26930
>I wish being a freak otaku who doesnt mind "degenerate" art and a far-left extremist who think all right wingers should be opressed wasnt as uncommon as it is
Freethinkers are uncommon, my gal. Finding a homo sapiens who isn't batshit insane is an entire epic quest. Just stop caring like me and enjoy the tiny circle of friends you already have.
>Maybe im a hentai addict
Don't be so sex-negative. As long as you're not harming anyone and live a healthy lifestyle it shouldn't be an issue.
>maybe i like japan too much
It's okay to like another country's culture. You can still bash the Japanese government while enjoying anime. All culture is produced under the horrible conditions of capitalism nowadays so hating Japanese media specifically doesn't really make much sense because how is the US different? This seems like nationalist rhetoric to me.
>in my defense, I also like china and the good korea
You know, that actually lowers your commie cred unless you only hang out with Dengists, Jucheists, Hazites or Duginists.
>i hate how all "leftists" on sites like twitter say about anime is calling all weebs degen over drawings while all the weebs who dont act like this are nazi cunnybros
it's just virtue signalling. Both camps only consume what they think is "based" while shunning everything the other side likes.

>>26932
>Just stop caring like me and enjoy the tiny circle of friends you already have.
Yah thats what i plan on doing, i dont think mmost of my weeb friend are commies but they are generally left leaning without being anti communist radlibs at least
>Don't be so sex-negative. As long as you're not harming anyone and live a healthy lifestyle it shouldn't be an issue.
I dont think i have a healty lifestyle thats what i mean, nothing wrong with jerking off from time to time, Being healty is a hard think to do under capitalism, most people are addicted to something, like alcohol, drugs, religion, sports, porn, work/"grindset" bs to cope with living in capitalism, as long as you recognize is its okay imo
>You know, that actually lowers your commie cred unless you only hang out with Dengists, Jucheists, Hazites or Duginists.
I didnt mean this in a dengist/juche way, i think Juche is a deviation from marxism and moder china is pretty much capitalist, i like both cultures and think western propaganda agaisnt them is mostly made up bullshit to justify regime change

>>26932
>Freethinkers are uncommon, my gal
They are unironically far more common in real life IME. My friends talk about their weird degeneracies all the time and no one minds and most of them are definitely what you would call "normies". I've never been in a group in real life that matches the whip-cracking puritanism of the worst online spaces.

>>26733
its cuz there both rightoids, so called SJWs are essentially a new permutation of american neocon thought struggling against older variants

>literal Nazis?
Why even post on an image board uyghur?

>>26733
>how does something which seems too hypocritical to be true, come to be? and how can one practically oppose or avoid it?
You're talking forum war bullshit way too seriously

Fandoms have always been unbearable by definition.

I've been wasting away there for the past 9 years. wtf am i supposed to do now?

>>27532
>wtf am i supposed to do now?
learn a language!

>>27533
Awful waste of time and effort, everything worth reading is translated into english and everyone worth talking to speaks english.

>>27535
least conformist 4channer

>>27535
Knowing more than one language changes brain connectivity and plasticity. Every additional language you learn delays the onset of Alzheimer disease by 4 years.

Im learning languages because I want a healthy brain, its that simple.

>>27532
You spent 9 years there when it was at its worst? Damn

>>27540
So is learning a new technical skill.

>>27533
okay I did, now what?
2ch's board culture seems just as impenetrable to newbies as its sister site's, but this time I'm the newbie and also not posting in my native language

>>27533
>>27543
Learning is nice and good for you and all, but what people lose isn't that but a place to relax and blow off steam and socialize and such

>SJW morons who think sex is evil and make the most superficial video essay brained criticisms (did you know young superheroes are literally "child soldiers" and should be treated as such?) and will doxx you to your employer because you said you like something like Made in Abyss

youre confusing anti-sjw morons with people who are uncomfortable with the amount of hyper sexualization there is in anime, especially involving minors.

it is objectively an issue, and as good as made in abyss is, it 100% goes too far for no real reason on occasion. For example, it's fucking weird how much the dumb robot boy obsesses over groping the furry girl, and there was no reason for it to be in the final cut. it adds nothing to the story. however, im sure when you think of made in abyss being over-the-top you probably think of the torture scenes because you struggle to even recognize the obvious sexualization of children happening in front of you, and are incapable of recognizing and acknowledging problematic content in otherwise good media.

made in abyss was written by someone that obviously struggles with some disturbing attraction to minors. he also wrote a good story despite its flaws. two things can be true. you are simply so obsessed with the notion that you have no flaws in your media taste that you refuse to accept the flaws that your favorite shows have.

a real adult recognizes that made in abyss was written by a man struggling with pedophilic urges but still manages to come out okay.

>>27631
Honeslty this obsession with "pedophilia" that people like you have. Yet you have no problem with scenes ofnchildren being beaten or killed

>>27638
i actually do have a problem with scenes of children being beaten or killed when it has no place in the story or does nothing to advance it.

but scenes of children being hurt has more relevance in media on average, whereas weird pedophilia baiting scenes almost always have absolutely nothing to do with what is going on and more often than not just make the scene awkward and uncomfortable.

It's not about how you piss, its about where you piss. it's not appropriate to piss in the living room, so do it in the toilet.

torturing kids for no reason is like peeing in the living room. being sexual towards kids for no reason is like peeing in the living room. if you wanna do that shit then do it right. there are pieces of media that have proven that these topics can be done in ways that further the plot. the problem is pedophilia RARELY does that, and almost always exists because the author is struggling with desires of pedophilia.

>>27639
>but scenes of children being hurt has more relevance in media on average

How? It should not be relevant,period. Unless if it's of course super powered kids who can handle a couple whacks or evil kids who need to be put down.

I just think society loves violence too mucb because people are afraid of sinceritt. Even showing scenes of genuine teen romance with no bare skin illicits some sex negative prude to be like "pedophilia"!

>>27640
because it is often painted as suffering. something bad that is to be overcome.

pedophilia, on the other hand, is not. it is most often portrayed as a simple and innocent reality of the world.

>I just think society loves violence too mucb
wrong. society has too much suffering, which is why we explore it through art.



pedophiles are often portrayed as normal, good guys, acceptable, while people torturing children are often portrayed as the bad guys.

stop making excuses for your willful acceptance of pedophilia and just admit you are a pedophile if youre gonna keep acting like this. otherwise just shut the fuck up and stop playing dumb.

>>27641
>pedophiles are often portrayed as normal, good guys, acceptable, while people torturing children are often portrayed as the bad guys.

>stop making excuses for your willful acceptance of pedophilia and just admit you are a pedophile if youre gonna keep acting like this. otherwise just shut the fuck up and stop playing dumb.

Ok now you're schizo. Pedos are never portrayed as good. It's child abusers who are portrayed as good. And you're only proving my point with your accusing me of being a pedophile.

Also, there's a lot of suffering in this world but there's no need to glorify it. Suffering in media is shown to be a lot more virtuous and epic than in real life.


Again, you seem to rationalize violence especially against children as a plot device.

>>27642
you live in a fantasy world. take your meds. or just kill yourself. both would solve the problem.

>>27643
Once again. Thanks for proving my point. You're a schizo. Or maybe you're a maladjusted neurotypical who is too lost in their own opinion.

Regardless I'm glad 4chan was shut down and I hope this site is next. In fact. I wish imagenoards would be updated with mandatory username registry and face pic for avatars so that you cannot hide from your asshole responses.

>>27644
why the fuck are you here

now i actually hope you kill yourself. youre sitting here using an image board while saying you hate image boards. you are a detriment to your own health and happiness, and i promise you suicide IS the answer.

>>27645
See what I mean? You guys keep telling other people to off themselves for disagreeing with you. But you guys are more likely to do that to yourselves anyway
You guys always whine about not getting laid or having a wife to cuddle or cook your meals like mommy.
You guys whine about having to work to get any sort of basic luxury. You just wanna b le compensated for merely existing.

>>27645
Also, imageboards are notorious for CP and groomers compared to other sites. At least in the "golden age" of image boards.

>>27646
i literally have a wife and a normal job, dumbass. you're so far up your ass that you are now just making shit up so you can create a strawman to feel superior to.

pathetic. once again: suicide IS the answer.

>>27650
No, your twitter oomfie is not your "wife".

>>27651
youre projecting real hard, buddy. ill be sure to fuck my wife twice as hard tonight, just for you.

>>27652
>ill be sure to fuck my wife twice as hard tonight
yeah over discord

>>27631
filtered

>>27650
Post proof. Also, you're still schizo.
This is why I wish imageboards had username registry and face profile pics

>>27653
Discord is more civil than imageboards.
The only good image boards are 7chan and LeftyChan.

>>27650
You're making up strawman aboutanon being a pedo and then claiming pedophilia is never portrayed as bad.
Go back to 4chan

>>27532
>Wasting away
Were you wasting away there on purpose?
If yes, why? What are you avoiding?
I personally was avoiding an essay assignment when I browsed 4chan these last few weeks…

>>27643
>>27644
You went from a discussion right to just insulting yourselves and getting nowhere…
Kinda overreacting there with the 'kys' and 'schizo'.
I think you both made some good points.
>>27631
Minors are rather sexualised in anime and yeah, I also think it's a problem. People sometimes conflate sexualisation of little kids with that of teenage high schoolers, which to some may make it seem like it's a bigger problem than it is and others that those people are wildly exaggerating. I think in the case of Made in Abyss it's pretty clear that those characters are children though and that if you somehow miss the sexualisation, you can have it pointed out and understand why it makes people uncomfortable.
I don't see why there would be anything wrong with pointing it out, unless you're trying to rally people to harass the author or something. That's certainly crossing the line and I think it happens too often that people get that worked up to stoop so low.
Kinda like when you're in an internet argument and it escalates to asking the other person to commit suicide… Sth must've gone wrong there…
>>27638
I think that depictions of violence are often gruesome and over the top and people who rally against pedophilia in anime don't seem to mind that, which can feel kinda hypocritical… Especially if some people can't seem to tell the difference between hard violence for the narrative and gratuitous violence for the spectacle… Or sexual reasons, although that one tends to be a bit more obvious.
>>27639
I think both pedophilia and other violence on children can be put in a story in a respectful fashion. For example, if it's a story about a survivor of said violence and it's more like a dark shadow in the background than something that would be explicitly shown. The focus would be more on the impact of violence and how it affects people later on, highlighting their narrative and not that of a voyeuristic third party who gets to watch as someone is passively exploited. I watched One Piece as a kid and the flashbacks of the characters had an emotional impact on me and it did involve children getting hurt. But it wasn't really about how they were hurt but how it affected them and how these things changed them as people. I thought it was well done and made me emphasise with the characters.
I've heard the LiSA games were kinda about (sexual?) violence on children, but I haven't heard of it being exploitative or disrespectful to victims in that way.
>>27640
Yeah, I think some people overdo it with conflating pedophilia with preying on high schoolers. Both is problematic, but in different ways. The younger a person, the more vulnerable they are and the worse such a crime is. I've heard people call a 20 year old a pedophile for dating a 17 year old. That's just silly… I think you can agree with that and still be uncomfortable with the oversexualisation of minors in media to adult onlookers who fetishise high school uniforms… I've never been harassed as much as I've been harassed during my late teens tbh.
>>27641
>society has too much suffering
Yeah…
>pedophiles are often portrayed as normal, good guys, acceptable
See, do you mean pedophiles preying on small children or those who prey on teenagers? Because a lot of people tend to view them differently.
I can't really think of a good show in which an actual pedophile was portrayed as a good guy, except maybe Mushoku Tensei but that's such a garbage show and if you go there, you'll soon have slavers and sex offenders portrayed as normal, good guys- wait a minute… There really are a lot of shows that are problematic in this way, you're not wrong. But I still think actual pedophile characters preying on pre-teens being shown as the good guys isn't really that common… I hope…
>>27642
>It's child abusers who are portrayed as good.
Yeah, that also happens, although I think it's more often about how it's framed. Like in Erased, with a serious tone in which a small kid is being beaten by her parents vs Detective Conan where Shinichi in his 6 year old body is just casually hit by Kogoro and it's depicted as harmless (I can't think of a better example rn). You get both situations, with people who hurt children being depicted as good people… B
Both is problematic I'd say, although I don't think it makes it impossible to still find something of value in a piece of media like that. I wouldn't blame other people for drawing a line there and not watching media like that because of it though, that's their decision. It only becomes a problem if they ask other people to do the exact same.
>>27641
>stop making excuses for your willful acceptance of pedophilia
I don't think anyone was wilfully accepting let alone supporting pedophilia here. Just acknowledging it as problematic.
It seems like there was a misunderstanding here.
>>27643
>you live in a fantasy world. take your meds
I understand being frustrated when there's a misunderstanding and it doesn't seem like the other person will listen, but this is going a bit far, don't you think?
>>27641
>>27643
>>27644
>>27645
>just admit you are a pedophile
>just kill yourself
>You're a schizo
>now i actually hope you kill yourself
Okay, don't you think you both crossed a line there?
Like, if you were in a room with me, I'd ask you to reconsider and try to understand the other person and what they were actually trying to say, think about how you responded to them and whether it was actually warranted and then… Apologise to each other maybe? Like, come on, we don't need to be attacking each other like this… Aren't we all adults here?

>>27662
Really, no character limit…
Isn't this too much power…

>>27662
I think a lot of manga "sexualizes" minors because that's largely the intended demographic and there's nothing wrong with young people finding other young people attractive. I'm not a developmental psychologist or anything but I think for most people, sexual interest is likely to begin before the age of majority and also be centered on one's peers. While I think most people grow out of prepubescent attraction as they age, I also don't think it's wrong for adults to want to revisit that in context of a fictionalized, fantasy depiction, where no real life children are otherwise involved.

And really, I think most people screaming about pedophilia online are either the mentally ill obsessed with "satanic pedophile elites," moral guardians more concerned with personal gratification gained from grandstanding on the issue, or losers that just like making people upset and don't get that high from calling people racial slurs any more.

>>27664
This. Thank you. People seem to think that anything made for kids/teens is supposed to be squeaky clean. People even make reaction videos of characters making double entendres or young characters showing cynical behavior.

>>27664
Oh yeah, that makes sense, thanks for the perspective.
I wouldn't say people are 'screaming' about it… but maybe that's my ESL leaking.
But yeah, people like to jump at the opportunity of a socially acceptable target for their vitriol without having to think too hard about it.
>and also be centered on one's peers
>grow out of prepubescent attraction
>prepubescent attraction
I've honestly never felt prepubescent attraction… I was only into bondage as a pre-teen and it didn't really get better, I don't know what went wrong there. I think I may have felt some attraction to a peer once maybe…
Is being attracted to other preteens a normal thing for mentally healthy people as they grow up? Mind-boggling.

>>27666
Yeah, and I'm entirely over it. I grew up in the 90s when it was rap music destroying America, and then video games, and the absurdity really hits you when you compare Mortal Kombat, the Great Moral Danger whose violence was training our precious young people to kill, with its modern remake. Like this cartoon blood was acid on America's moral fiber, and nowadays MK shows you shattering photorealistic bones and rupturing organs in slow motion. It's simply ridiculous.

>>27667
It depends on where you go really. Even here though it happens sometimes. Like someone posted their AI waifu in the isg thread and it derailed into accusations of pedophilia because I guess this fictional ethot was too young looking in the face? It reminded me of when Australia tried to ban pictures of small-chested women because it was "pedophilic." There's a hysteria around it that's really just starting to get grating in the same way that antisemitism is. They're both important subjects and serious accusations to make, and that's being undermined by some unhinged people, intentionally or not, blowing up over stuff that really doesn't matter.

I don't really think that "mentally healthy" is one typical avenue of development. I wouldn't say that someone that develops sexual attraction early is any healthier than someone that developed it later or even not at all. I think even normal sexual development can be disrupted by circumstances. My sexual interests sparked early for example, but it included boys as well as girls in a time and place where that really, really wasn't acceptable, and that left me with some baggage that affected me for a long time.

I wonder how much of this hysteria is due to alienation and atomization as well. Like I remember arguing with someone here about how they felt visceral disgust at child nudity and thought that was or should be the norm. I disagreed. Personally I think child nudity, outside of explicitly sexual depictions, just neutral. It's a fact of life. Like I come from a big family with lots of extended family too, and that meant seeing a lot of the younger ones naked for whatever reason, like changing diapers. It's just a normal thing and no big deal. To me seeing, for instance, a naked toddler and feeling revulsion at it, that's bizarre, like seeing a dog and being upset that it's not wearing pants.

So I don't know, like I said I'm not a psychologist but to me whatever a person is into is only unhealthy if it hurts themselves or others in a real way. Being into bondage exclusively is weird, but weird isn't bad. If this predilection interfered in your ability to function or live an otherwise healthy life, or caused you to force it onto someone against their will, that would be different. Otherwise it isn't any less healthy than any other sexual practice.

>>27695
People whitewash/comicalise youth far too much.
Youth is not a hug box free from worldly elements, good or bad.

You know that before video games, it was common and legal for high school kids to drive to school with guns? It was acceptable back then because hunting was a more common childhood pastime.

Also, it was acceptable for kids to bully each other to death

What it is is that Anglo-America has dictated the global contemporary culture for the past century.
And Anglos are very asocial and pathologise platonic body contact.

In most other ethno cultures, men hug and kiss each other and it's not seen as homosexual

It's only the Angloid culture that thinks this is weird.