Found this random chart of anime that is considered left wing vs Right wing on the Xitter.
Thoughts? Agree or disagree?
The body was too short or empty The body was too short or empty. The body was too short or empty. The body was too short or empty The body was too short or empty.
Just took mental damage from looking at this pic.
>>27053FMA is pretty much just liberalism.
>>27052Where is patlabor on the left wing anime side ?.
Shows what they know.
>>27052>liberal>left wingthis should be bannable
>us -centric politicsthis one too
>>27077It's bait.
>>27078I think you're supposed to sympathize with the fact that he being a kerberos basically made him less than human, no more than a wolf that follows the order of his pack, and he's not capable of resisting. IRL this applies to cops, soldiers and basically everyone who's part of an organization that demands blind obedience. You can sympathize with him, but you're not supposed to justify his actions: "just following the orders" is what german soldiers did.
>>27053Hiromu Arakawa life motto is "Those who don’t work, don’t get to eat", the manga is full of gags at communism. Her earlier work Raiden-18 makes a mockery of Mao and communism. Also Mamoru Oshii is the most reactionary mangaka you can get including Tetsuya Nishio who also worked Jin-roh
>kill la killlol no, how does this fall into the right-wing sphere
>gundamtomino has only ever publicly right-wing parties
>monsterit's not leftist, the manga heavily criticizes communism and pins so much blame onto socialist countries. it straight up stated the first experiment was from the communist elite in Czechoslovakia
>K-on???
>AOTremember, the creator was 100% fash at the start until he sat down with a popular liberal commentator and it changed his whole world view
>JoJolots of odd fash pandering early on and Araki has made plenty of conservative comments, i feel it bounces all over. if you disagree go reread the egypt arc, a lot of weird racism
>>27052Death Note is not right-wing, it's blatantly anti-death penalty. If you think Light was portrayed as right in the story then you unironically lack media literacy. Granted the anime did make some dumb changes from the manga, like giving Light a more glorified death instead of pathetically writhing on the floor like his victims.
I wouldn't call it left-wing however because it doesn't give an alternate materialist message to Light's idealism, it's just pro-establishment liberalism.
>>27081You know what? I'd say JoJo is more progressive since it actually portrays black and gay people positively and unlike many other anime it features them in many prominent supporting roles. The only issue with JoJo is Stroheim being a Nazi but I wouldn't accuse Araki of being a Nazi sympathizer just because of one heroic Nazi character.
The issue I had with the list is more about the schizo logic it uses. K-On! is somehow more right-wing than JoJo just because the chuds like it even if JoJo (or at least its first three parts) can be easily enjoyed by conservative dudebros. Like, there's nothing in JoJo that is explicitly left-wing, the same way that there's nothing in K-On! that is explicitly right-wing. But ig people count milquetoast progressivism as "leftist themes" nowadays.
>>27072You have a point. I said JoJo is progressive but the first part indeed has an idealized image of the Brittish nobility. So even if a series is socially progressive it still can be considered right-wing.
I kinda agree with the other anon, JoJo is all over the place, ranging from right-wing to centrist mostly I think. However, I don't remember JoJo ever exploring genuinely leftist themes. I still enjoyed it for what it is: a bizarre adventure set in different time periods with cool fights.
>>27098>A lot of hindutva fascists do make veganism a core part of their identity tbhIt was a joke. And the joke's on you 'cause you're doing exactly what I'm talking about.
Can we stop associating political ideologies with consumption plz?
>>27101What I see here is just an anti-woke talking point, I don't see any homophobia, unless you think being straight is homophobic. The manga/anime in general has a problem with other characters being very easy to convince. Like with that depressed dude, all he needed was for the MC to tell him that him committing suicide will make his classmates uncomfortable and he's like: "Oh, shit, you're right." But what else did I expect from a shonen series? It's literally the textbook talk no jutsu.
I still think the anime has leftist themes as I pointed out in another thread. If the author is a conservative twat then his own work works against his logic.
>>27102thats just one example, bakuman/platinum end is full of casual homophobia and how a girls best instinct is to get married and be a wife over and over. if you only watched the anime you wont see any of it, cause all the homophobic and sexist stuff got purged
https://x.com/max_kuriibimeri/status/1892188701633163574. platinum end is where Ohba started leaning heavily into the dumb stuff
>>27104>casual homophobiaCan you post some English scans? I can't speak Japanese.
>best instinctYo, that's some sixth sense or some shit. You have six senses: smell, hearing, touch, taste, vision and a future husband radar.
>all the homophobic and sexist stuff got purgedSmart move, though it's also false advertisement.
>>27105>people that go against the status quo are badDid the MC win? In that case it sucks, Mari's, Susumu's and Gaku's ideas were more sympathetic to me: Gaku had a point about religion and is more of an anarchist, Mari wanted to create FALGSC unironically and Susumu's gun rights extremism, while dangerous, may unironically spark revolutions.
>>27084You talk like a bitch.
>>27089You have a point, I just thought Death Note was being labeled "right-wing" because people unironically believe the manga was on Light's side.
>>27148>I just thought Death Note was being labeled "right-wing" because people unironically believe the manga was on Light's side.It was, though. Kira's only mistake, according to the story, was killing "innocents". L himself wasn't particularly concerned over ethical questions as well. Reread the last manga chapter and see how they talk about Kira's legacy.
>>27146I find it funny how the fuhrer was a Stalin caricature. Liberals never cease to amuse.
>>27193The Tatami Galaxy
Ping Pong the Animation
Trying really hard to not say "media literacy" after looking at that dogshit chart.
>>27242But half of each side is slop.
>>27246 (me)
If Death Note has any message at all, it's that populism is retarded. The Kira fanatics don't even know 1% of who Light really is. Which is particularly damning for any manga reader thinking the manga is glazing Light, when we literally stare into the abyss of a narcissist/sociopath cunt's mind drunk on power for the duration of the whole manga.
>>27275Drake was always hated on since the beginning. Kendrick Lamars diss was just the latest excuse to hate on him
>>27247LeftyPol lacks self awareness as usual. What did you expect?
>>27242>Muh lolicon slop vs transhumanist animeC'mon man. Seriously?
>>27355Perhaps but maybe because people kinda forgot about Drake until that diss?
Also, bullying over hip hop celebrities is dumb.
Hip hop stars are often involved in petty verbal wars all the time.
>>27373 👀 Is this joke funny, or does it just seem like some internet lunatic having a meltdown?
If you think it's not funny or just gross, I won't post jokes like this anymore.
👀这个笑话好笑吗，还是你们觉得这更像一个互联网精神病在发疯，如果你们觉得这个笑话不好笑、觉得恶心之类的这种笑话我就不发了
>>27381From what I see it's the opposite. People get more pissy about more stuff.
If more is braindead, so is most shonen anime and action adventure stuff
>>27382>If more is braindead, so is most shonen anime and action adventure stuffI doubt you've actually watched K-On. Most shonen is pretty stupid too but the "humor" people love in K-On is literally just little girls making noises. It is indistinguishable from something you'd watch on Nick Jr.
I don't even hate moe, you're the one making it about that. Stuff like Nichijou or Azumanga Daioh is fine.
>>27373Picrel
>>27374Everyone was just sleeping I think
>>27392 (me)
My theory is this: as the readers of shounen manga like DBZ and Azumanga Daioh grow old they translate their sensibilities and humour into seinen. That's why we can see stuff like Blood Lad getting greenlit. In the past the majority of seinen was either grimdark shit or conservative nationalistic historical fiction. And sports manga. Lots. And lots. Of sports manga. GODDAMN SPORTS MANGA, IT NEVER ENDS!!
>>27388where can you even find the original "tagging" of a japanese manga outside of which magazine it's in ?
>>27391this is true,it's published in a Seinen magazine,like Kill me Baby lol
>>27388>For starters K-On isn't comedy.Lolwut?
>>27395>Kill me BabyAnother example of absurd humour like Nichijou, Azumanga Daioh, Excel Saga, Panty and Stocking and Pop Team Epic, I think absurd humour was shounen in the 2000s and then graduated to seinen in the 2010s and moe SoL was seinen in the 2000s and just never went away.
>>27396 (me)
But then again, Excel Saga is very old and seinen so go figure.
>>27391I'm well aware that it's "for adults", but that's just a matter of marketing. I don't see any substantial difference in content between K-On and actual preschooler shows.
Seriously, someone just give me a solid reason for why being a K-On fan is any less corny than being a brony other than the two shows being marketed in different ways.
>>27392>Ironically Nichijou, Azumanga Daioh and Konosuba are teen mangaI know. But there's a horseshoe effect with moe where the stuff theoretically geared for older audiences tends to be much stupider, so you can't blame me for choosing those examples.
The only "mature" moe I guess would be iyashikei stuff like YKK (which is great but I don't think it leans that hard on moe) or that Girl's Last Tour thing that I never watched.
And of course Konosuba is a teen manga, it's pretty juvenile. Again, that's not even a criticism of it or the people who watch it, but it is what it is. I like plenty of juvenile things too but I don't waste everyone's time pretending otherwise. It's not a matter of what you're allowed to like or whether something immature can have value, it's just calling things what they are.
>>27398>that's just a matter of marketingWell, by that logic a good kids' cartoon is actually for adults because it's all just a matter of marketting, these labels kinda lose all their intended meanings.
>I don't see any substantial difference in content between K-On and actual preschooler shows.The manga had pantyshots.
>why being a K-On fan is any less corny than being a bronyIt's not but most normies listen to corny pop music so it's kinda hypocritical for them to judge weebs. In fact, the normies watch TV shows that are far worse in quality and far cringier than whatever generic moe show since the normies have even lower standards than the most retarded of anime fans (although both normies and hardcore anime fans make me cringe just about equally).
>it's pretty juvenileKonoSuba is way less juvenile than plenty of harem anime so I think it's more a matter of taste. Plus it's a comedy, comedy always lingers on that fine line between "funny" and "juvenile," and vulgar humour has the biggest risk of falling to the latter category (ironically what a lot of American "adult" comedies end up doing).
>>27391>>27398>>27400Marketing anything for specific age groups imo is pretentious. Especially in the comedy section.
I find adult humor like Family Guy is more regressive than stuff like K-On
>>27401>Marketing anything for specific age groups imo is pretentious.It's more like the opposite: it's all for maximizing profits because bougies are retarded boomers who treat art as just a money printer. The irony is, we are more dependent on marketting than marketting is dependent on us. That's why they get away with this and keep living in their illusions.
>I find adult humor like Family Guy is more regressive than stuff like K-OnFamily Guy's situation is literally the same as SpongeBob's, it's just that Family Guy is a more popular punching bag because it has adult humour. SpongeBob's seasonal rot began at about the same time as Family Guy's: at the fourth season. And its later seasons are just as disgusting.
>>27402SpongeBob has had a qualitative comeback in recent seasons. Plankton is given more character development. Hes no longer just some bitter business rival to Mr. Krabs.
Patrick actually shows some personal history of worldly aaffairs.
But to answer your question about Spongebob vs Family Guy: most adult humor has to rely on impressions of childrens dialect.
Irony is, kids shows have more depth than adult shows.
Kids shows just wanna let loose without being excessive.
Adult shows wanna try too hard to be "profound/somber".
They mock sincerity and happiness because its "uncool" and "uncool" is moral decay.
>>27412>SpongeBob has had a qualitative comeback in recent seasons.Nah. While nowhere near as bad as the dreaded 8th season, new seasons are all over the place, jumping in quality between season 3 (peak fiction, ended too soon, we need a second season of season 3), season 4 and season 6 or 7. Most people didn't like the first half of season 9, they mostly point to the second half when they talk about good season 9 episodes.
>most adult humor has to rely on impressions of childrens dialectWdym?
>Kids shows just wanna let loose without being excessive.>Adult shows wanna try too hard to be "profound/somber".Both approaches have their pros and cons. I certainly like the balls-to-the-wall approach to action of shows like Ben 10, DBZ, JoJo and Megas XLR. But some kids cartoons and shonen anime can be rather corny and moralistic while having rather annoying jokes, characters and cliches (I think Adventure Time and the like moving away from "morale of the story" approach and becoming more surreal and experimental is a good thing, same for superhero movies focusing more on flawed anti-heroes). I understand it's an aquired taste but I have not aquired it yet and have a difficult time aquiring it. I tried watching TTGL but in the end I found it rather meh. The fights are cool but the story kinda overstayed its welcome so I just could not care for the characters. Seinen and adult cartoons being more cynical and less formulaic and corny is good for experiencing the story but I agree that many series can get too grimdark/mean-spirited. I think seinen that takes inspirations from shonen and shoujo is ideal (One Punch Man, Blood Lad, Kill la Kill).
>They mock sincerity and happiness because its "uncool" and "uncool" is moral decay.It's not necessarily moralism. They're just probably written by sad bitter edgelords like me. I envy people who can enjoy K-On! sometimes, I'm so dense that I just can't relax and unwind so a lot of the stuff I watch and listen to is rather aggressive. Maybe it's just my hardships that make me so angry. Or maybe it's ADHD that doesn't let me rest, who knows?
>>27400>Well, by that logic a good kids' cartoon is actually for adults because it's all just a matter of markettingThe point is that marketing is irrelevant in determining demographics, not that demographics don't exist.
>The manga had pantyshots.That's not substantial. (And even Miyazaki's movies have panty shots.)
>but most normies listen to corny pop music so it's kinda hypocritical for them to judge weebsI'm not talking about normies. Plenty of moe-loving weebs would judge bronies for liking children's media. Hell, it's completely widespread for all the moe fans to (correctly) call shonen fans juvenile for liking something "for teenagers" despite their favored stuff being, again, near-indistinguishable from stuff for preschoolers. The only thing keeping their sense of superiority alive is the marketing that tells them K-On is "for adults".
>KonoSuba is way less juvenile than plenty of harem animeThat's not exactly a high standard.
>>27401>Marketing anything for specific age groups imo is pretentious. Especially in the comedy section.You're not entirely wrong, especially since writers like Shakespeare and Chaucer often made Family Guy-tier scatological jokes. But there's obviously still a basis for referring to certain media as mature or for adults. A 10-year-old isn't going to get anything out of Ghost in the Shell 2 and there's a reason we all know that, even if you don't think that movie is good.
>>27416>The point is that marketing is irrelevant in determining demographicsDiscussing target demographics outside of the domain of marketting is entirely pointless since it's a marketting term first and foremost.
>even Miyazaki's movies have panty shotsI said the manga had pantyshots. That's 'cause it is explicit fanservice that was cut from the anime and was even a point of criticism (K-On! fans think the anime is better). The deletion of fanservice made K-On! more like a pre-school show indeed.
>it's completely widespread for all the moe fans to (correctly) call shonen fans juvenile for liking something "for teenagers"That's kinda petty, moe fans are the kinds of people who are shoved into school closets so they don't suddenly become better just by shitting on people who watch shonen. First time hearing about this. Also, a lot of moe is shounen/shoujo anyway.
We all know that only those who read classical literature are allowed to shit on others because society has determined that bullying people for their tastes is only acceptable if your taste is very sophisticated.>K-On is "for adults"It's for adult otaku. Again, school closets, yadda-yadda-yadda.
>That's not exactly a high standard.Again, go read classical literature or something, putting some anime like Eva on a pedestal is a very Internet thing to do, no professional critic outside of the Internet forums and YouTube essays even gives a shit about anime as a medium.
>>27418There's nothing sophisticated about reading "classical literature". It is fiction nonetheless. Pic related is a real book you should be reading.
I say this in jest but do think about it.
>>27419>There's nothing sophisticated about reading "classical literature". It is fiction nonetheless.People treat fiction like it's something that makes you a high-autism score giga-brain and gives you a justification to shit on others. But you're right: reading books on natural and social sciences,
analyzing philosophy (instead of quote-mining just to sound "profound"),
getting a job and having critical thinking skills while being level-headed and simple in your manners and attitude is what really makes you smart/wise/clever/whatever. All this "high art" dick-measuring is just an attempt to get a higher social status so you can bully others instead of being made fun of, fiction shouldn't be taken so seriously that it squeezes your brain out. In the end the fiction's task is to entertain/provoke thought/convey beauty, the only reason I shit on pop and Hollywood movies is not because they make people dumb but because they're boring and lame. Simple as.
>>27052>code geass is right wingthe show literally about terrorists revolutionaries in a national liberation movement fucking up the global empire? the fuck
>overlord is right winga show about how an OP lich and his minions completely change the balance of power of a medieval fantasy world, and proceed to conquer it, being quite explicit in how evil and manipulative they are with a paper thin greater good rationalization only believed in by the dumbass leader in over his head, that serve as justification for all the underlings to do the heinous shit they were made to love to do? the one where the evil overlord of death use his power rationally to use his undead armies as free farming labor, but also completely loose touch with his humanity and commit retarded indiscriminate slaughters on mass scale?
shit even goblin slayer can be argued to not be right wing, what with following the shell of a man broken young by horrors witnessed, that dedicate his entire life to avenging that trauma and end up being a true hero of the people because that mission happens to be one that directly affect commoners the most despite how far from all the heroic shit people dream about when talking adventurers and how badly paid it is. Someone who has no innate superpower beyond using his wits to unconventionally use magic and physics.
I think the person who made this had a big hate boner against harems, which while I will agree is too often used, is a shitty trope and is reactionary, seem too much of a blanket categorization to consider something "right wing"
>my hero academia is left wingwhat, that superhero shonen slop? the one with a clear bad guy good guy divide, and you must trust the government and existing power structures against the crazy evil radicals? thats left wing?
didnt go very far admittedly but that seem an outlandish claim
hard disagree with that stupid chart
>>27423>globalism is le badMLs when you tell them that leftism is not when supporting nationalist movements: *confused screaming*
>polyamory is reactionaryWhat patriarchy does to an mf. Not to mention that harems often end with a monogamous couple anyway so it's just a more complicated love triangle de-facto.
>PTSD and protecting innocents is leftistWow, didn't know Batman was leftist all along.
>>27416Forgot to address this point.
>(correctly) call shonen fans juvenileCorrectly? Shonen shows like Devilman, Violence Jack, Fist of the Northstar, Attack on Titan, Fullmetal Alchemist (2003), JoJo and Legend of the Galactic Empire are in no way juvenile, even compared to the "10/10 masterpiece" that is Eva. They're targetted at teenagers not because they're juvenile but because they're action manga with a pretty epic and thrilling narrative.
>B-but they're formulaic!"Formulaic" doesn't equal "juvenile." Plenty of adult shows are formulaic too, like old sitcoms. Their formulaic nature is a legitimate criticism but it is in no way a sign of their juvenile nature, it's just a limitation of their weekly format (notice how, unlike most seinen magazines other than Weekly Young Jump and Young Animal, shonen magazines are published by-weekly, which is the kind of format that definitely has its flaws like crunching, plot-holes, padding, varying quality and the fact that bi-weekly manga rarely reach a satisfying conclusion due to the magazines milking them dry).
>>27431 (me)
I think "shonen vs seinen" is more of a generational war thing like "zoomers vs boomers." That explains why there's so much boomer shit in seinen like:
>business manga>sports manga>historical manga>conservative mangaEtc., etc.
Shonen is more of a "How do you do, fellow kids?" demographic so today's seinen is yesterday's shonen. What perfectly demonstrates that gradual shift of shonen to seinen is
JoJo Blood Lad (again). The author is a MASSIVE DBZ fan so his love for DBZ was translated into a seinen manga too. Trends shift and change so what it means for a manga to be shounen and seinen also changes. Then newfags come along and hype up manga like Chainsaw Man and Dandadan. I'm sure that in the future seinen will be a bunch of CSM and DDD clones, mark my words.
>>27422This.
The biggest irony is most people don't really care about classic fictional literature or any of it's meaning. The reason why we have intellectuals is because we pay people to do the thinking for us.
Yet. Most people have no interest in concrete non fictional subjects except as political subjects
>>27416
>You're not entirely wrong, especially since writers like Shakespeare and Chaucer often made Family Guy-tier scatological jokes. But there's obviously still a basis for referring to certain media as mature or for adults. A 10-year-old isn't going to get anything out of Ghost in the Shell 2 and there's a reason we all know that, even if you don't think that movie is goodYou sure? Preteens like sophisticated stuff as well.
When I was ten, I was watching true crime documentaries and I was into crime noir stories and what not .
"Maturity" is unfortunately usually aesthetic in impression rather than practicality.
>I'm not talking about normies. Plenty of moe-loving weebs would judge bronies for liking children's media. Hell, it's completely widespread for all the moe fans to (correctly) call shonen fans juvenile for liking something "for teenagers" despite their favored stuff being, again, near-indistinguishable from stuff for preschoolers. The only thing keeping their sense of superiority alive is the marketing that tells them K-On is "for adults".Anything that's made for children or uses kiddy aesthetics is always pathologised meanwhile "adult" aesthetics which celebrate actual transgression for the same philosophizing are celebrated in spite of it's flaws.
>>27414>It's not necessarily moralism. They're just probably written by sad bitter edgelords like me. I envy people who can enjoy K-On! sometimes, I'm so dense that I just can't relax and unwind so a lot of the stuff I watch and listen to is rather aggressive. Maybe it's just my hardships that make me so angry. Or maybe it's ADHD that doesn't let me rest, who knows?I like it when people use their past hardships as an excuse to.be pissy about kiddie stuff.
Like I know that's not true. You just hate on it because it doesn't appeal to your self esteem of adulthood, that's all.
>Both approaches have their pros and cons. I certainly like the balls-to-the-wall approach to action of shows like Ben 10, DBZ, JoJo and Megas XLR. But some kids cartoons and shonen anime can be rather corny and moralistic while having rather annoying jokes, characters and cliches (I think Adventure Time and the like moving away from "morale of the story" approach and becoming more surreal and experimental is a good thing, same for superhero movies focusing more on flawed anti-heroes). Ok fair point. I hate the moralistic preachy time as well.
But as for.the antiheroes, they also fall into the trap of.being moralistic preachy assholes.
One thing I hate about antiheroes are how theyre given redemption arcs and their past is completely whitewashed and they're glorified as better than the pure heroes just because of their "edge". A lot of antiheroes are not even that profound let alone have that extensive a skillset.
>I understand it's an aquired taste but I have not aquired it yet and have a difficult time aquiring it. I tried watching TTGL but in the end I found it rather meh. The fights are cool but the story kinda overstayed its welcome so I just could not care for the characters. What is TTGL?
>Seinen and adult cartoons being more cynical and less formulaic and corny is good for experiencing the story but I agree that many series can get too grimdark/mean-spirited. I think seinen that takes inspirations from shonen and shoujo is ideal (One Punch Man, Blood Lad, Kill la Kill).Adult cartoons aren't even properly cynical. They're negatively idealistic.
And they're formulaic.
>>27470>You just hate on itI don't, I'm just saying it's not my cup of tea because I'm just a mean, cynical person. It's okay if others enjoy it, there is nothing wrong with that. I enjoy more lighthearted works sometimes, though they still have some edge and cynicism to them, mostly in humour or characters (I love Rayman and Sonic games and Ben 10).
>But as for.the antiheroes, they also fall into the trap of.being moralistic preachy assholes.I said both approaches have pros and cons, not that grimdark stories are inherently superior, I've already mentioned Redo of Healer as an example of bad grimdark (although I absolutely adore shit like Lovecraftian horror).
>What is TTGL?Tangen Toppa Gurren Lagann.
>>27473Its called subculture parasitism and it had been a huge problem that went as far back as nazi appropriating the skinhead subculture
But whenever there is action there is reaction, nazi punks created Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice and Rock Against Racism, and i think if @cunnyrapist1488 keep pushing this nazi moe chic it'd create a pretty adverse reaction from other weebs, for example i've seen this magical girl show in youtube that explicitly features an african american mc
>>27060Wrong actually. Soviet's "experiment" was basically socializing orphans through love and care, but then nazis took over (my guess is after fall of USSR, the timelines in the movie are not all that clear) and made it into battle royal. It was explicitely stated when the main char meets one of the former soviet researchers who still took care of dozen of orphans.
I would say the anime has pretty liberal message, but it never hated on soviets, the antagonists were almost always nazis.
>>27497This type of thinking is very common in leftists, MLs, obviously anarchists, etc etc in my experience. I resent the fact that self proclaimed socialists, communists, etc are generally gigantic retards who peddle liberal religious politics like this, at least many of the ones I've met. And not because I'm super leftist or super smart or whatever, but because I'm not. The bar is so low and they still manage to disappoint. This board is filled with people who are embedded in leftist shit most of the day, yet they come up with retarded shit like what you mention.
In communist parties there's many decent folks though.
>>27511Fair point.
It's amazing how people use fiction to define reality and reality to define fiction.
I find that reality is far more colorful and diverse than one expects. The reason why reality is stereotyped as bleak, cold, and grey is because humans impose fictional constructs onto reality and it always blows up in their face. Most times a lot of the consequence is indirect
>>27081>Hiromu Arakawa life motto is "Those who don’t work, don’t get to eat", the manga is full of gags at communism"Those who don’t work, don’t get to eat" was a communist slogan. It was literally in the 2cnd soviet constitution.
Also as the last link states, that was more of her family's (partially joking) slogan.
>https://xbato.com/chapter/823276The mocking of Mao and communism is absurdly tame and literally ends on a note praising Mao (perhaps ironically I guess?) if anything. The most offensive thing she wrote was calling Mao japanese.
<From the google japanese branch of wikipedia Hiromu Arakawa article google-translated>I was bitter that the pirate version of "Fullmetal Alchemist" was rampant in China, so I wrote " Mao" in "RAIDEN-18" and read " けざわひがし " Kyonshi appeared. According to an interview commemorating the release of the book, he said that he drew it with the idea of "making a manga that can not be pirated"It's cringe that she believes in IP, but I can hardly find anything particularly anti-communist. Apparently she really loves the three kingdoms and from what I gathered is a bit of a china fan in general.
<https://m--dojo-hatenadiary-com.translate.goog/entry/2023/12/22/025537?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=scIf the translation of this page is at all accurate, it seems like she was approached by some people to be active politically and was annoyed.
<https://kyoko--np-net.translate.goog/2025040101.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=scAll in all she seems like a left of center person. Either lib or soc-dem or genuinely doesn't have strong enough opinions to be a partisan on economic issues (although obviously anti-war and genocide).
>>27564>art = realityDerp.
>>27563Lynch said it best.
>>27566>everyone loves art that rams ideology down your throat.Not my exact position obviously.
That being said, some blatantly political art is good actually. Everyone says that they don't like political art until you ask them what albums or movies they like and half of it tends to be blatantly political. You can't make good art with no connection to life and you can't connect to life without connecting to politics.
People hate art for being "political" only when the art becomes dishonest or otherwise faulty in service of political means.
The desire to not integrate the artists political views with their political works generally stems from a desire to not acknowledge the fact that your political opponents actually have some nuance in their positions and can present a coherent view of at least some part of reality while still disagreeing with you. Understanding right wing art /as/ right wing art is not to dismiss it, but to better understand the kernels of rationality within right wing viewpoints so as to better understand them and beat them. Dismissing the right wing nature of works like Serial Experiments Lain is in service of misunderstanding and underestimating your political opponents.
I do not wish to understand art as right wing so that I may damn it, nor do I understand art as left in order to praise it. I understand both as they are in order to understand the world as it is. I think left art /tends/ to be better, since correctness and coherence in one sphere correlates with correctness and coherence in another, but that is not absolute.
>>27567Yes. Art is a part of reality.
Show don't tell was an anti-communist slogan. There is a grain of truth in it, but a correct slogan would only be "tell or don't tell; show either way".
>analyzing art ruins artI don't believe you actually believe this.
>>27573Not what I said, I said art is inherently indirectly connected to politics.
I have no idea how you would even possibly argue against this statement.
>>27569>Not my exact position obviously.I get that.
>People hate art for being "political" only when the art becomes dishonest or otherwise faulty in service of political meansWell said anon, that nails it.
>I think left art /tends/ to be betterLeftist satire makes up a lot of great art because the right has so any logical inconsistencies to mock.
>>27573It isn't inherently political but many stories can't be told without a political element because that is how things function in reality. Even in fiction there is often a need for a class structure, a form of government and an economic system.
Take the original Starwars for example, most consider them pretty good popcorn flicks but the whole story is about an insurgency against an authoritarian government yet few would consider them as overtly political.
>>27569>Show don't tell was an anti-communist slogan.Just because liberals believe in the marketplace of ideas doesn't mean communists should too. You aren't doing a heckin' praxis with your shitty art.
>I think left art /tends/ to be betterI don't care. Plenty of right-wingers and other people with dogshit politics have pushed art as a medium forward.
>>27573>>27575For some reason the internet mangled "all art is made under a political context" (groundbreaking discovery!) to mean "all art is political".
>>27583>as you go further leftWhat the hell does this mean. You know you can't
actually place the left-right abstraction on a scale, right?
>>27588You don't even need to read Marx to understand that you just need a triple digit autism score
>currency must be deflationary>so people invest>to generate passive incomeWhat if we had a deflationary currency and just didn't allow investment meaning people sitting on their money a bit more has no negitive effects on growth?
t. guy that has never read Marx
>>27590*inflationary
I have a low AUTISM score.
>>27578>Just because liberals believe in the marketplace of ideas doesn't mean communists should too. 1. Liberals don't really believe in it. 2. Communists should. Just like how only communists really believe in democracy.
>You aren't doing a heckin' praxis with your shitty art.It only works as praxis if the art isn't shitty.
What is to be done by Chernochevsky was 1000% more influential to the russian revolution than anything that Marx wrote. Art deniers are delusional.
>Plenty of right-wingers and other people with dogshit politics have pushed art as a medium forward.Obviously I agree? Not sure why you felt the need to say this.
>>27604>>27605Also because we got a flood of retards thanks to 4chan being down I guess I have to give more substance to my post.
Democracy exists and is not a sham, at least in well developed nations. These countries are dictatorships of the bourgeoisie because the world is capitalist, thus their "national interest" is to make capital accumulation as easy as possible. This naturally benefits those who own the most capital. But everyone, regardless of wealth, views a well running economy as their vital interest and thus would vote for policies favorable to capital anyway.
People conceive of democracy only as a pure ideal, not as a mechanism of rule - thus it surprises them when it is paired with other mechanisms of rule, e.g. military force. It's to the point now where people have completely identified communism with democracy, so that questioning democracy gets you accused of being an anti-communist.
This is what happens when you think that the right organisational form can dictate society’s class relations, rather than vice versa, and this goes hand in hand with believing ideas shape the world too.
>>27605>>27607>because we got a flood of retards thanks to 4chan being down I've been on leftypol on and off since 2015.
>But everyone, regardless of wealth, views a well running economy as their vital interest and thus would vote for policies favorable to capital anyway.Yes, more people than just capitalists are rationally complicit in capitalism, but you don't have to stupidly maintain that "actually the west is run genuinely democratically" to acknowledge this.
>People conceive of democracy only as a pure ideal, not as a mechanism of rule Completely historically illiterate, its been conceived of as both an ideal and a mechanism since at least the 1600s.
>It's to the point now where people have completely identified communism with democracy, so that questioning democracy gets you accused of being an anti-communist.Marxists (inc Lenin) literally accused anarchists of being anti-communist on exactly these grounds. This isn't either new or incoherent. It is certainly possible to imagine a classless society without direct majority votes being at the top of the constitutional order so to speak, but it is impossible to imagine one that is not democratic in a more general sense, yes.
>This is what happens when you think that the right organisational form can dictate society’s class relations, rather than vice versaClass relations are organizational forms moron.
>this goes hand in hand with believing ideas shape the world too.You can't be so stupid that you think that ideas don't shape the world.
<<b-but that's idealismNo. Idealism was the belief that God literally established himself through the progression of ideas. Marxist anti-idealism was never about "ideas can't change anything". That doesn't make any sense. It was about the progression of ideas not being the unabated telos of historical development.
Do you think that no scientific or technological advances have changed the world? Or are you going to stupidly pretend that those don't count as ideas?
>>27608dont bring up lenin when defending democracy you fucking tard
you are setting up an imaginary ‘real’ democracy, an ideal standard, and then measuring actually existing forms of democracy against it. thats exactly what kautsky does with his ‘pure democracy’. compare your shit posts with lenin
there is a big difference between proletarian democracy in the sense lenin means it, democracy among the proletariat and its organizations, and a cross-class democracy that happens to include proletarians, which is characteristic of bourgeois rule
>if idealism is wrong then explain science which consists of ideasdid you really think this was a smart retort holy fuck lol
>>27609>not actually reading my postI noted two different aspects of idealism, not just one.
>>27611There being class democracy doesn't refute Lenin's commitment to democracy. Did you even read the quotes you posted? He's arguing that his system of proletariat democracy is still essentially democratic.
>and a cross-class democracy that happens to include proletarians, which is characteristic of bourgeois ruleNo shit those are different. Although it is stupid to suggest that these are the only differences between democracies.
>you are setting up an imaginary ‘real’ democracy, an ideal standard, and then measuring actually existing forms of democracy against it. That is literally how concepts work. All definitions hold up an ideal standard to real things. Otherwise someone can just call anything anything else and you have to what, just believe that it is what people say it is? Utter incoherence.
>did you really think this was a smart retort holy fuck lolYes and the fact that neither you or your compatriot has any refutation of that proves it.
>>27081>>27562Isn't there a tweet where Arakawa basically says "Thanks god there is a public health care system"?
If I remember correctly she took a break from her work as a mangaka when both her husband and son got a weird disease.
>>27057Biiiiiiig this. Most of the shows in that image being called right wing are being read at a surface level if the person placing them has even actually watched them and not just judged their fanbase. Attack on Titan is implicitly fascist but most art just *is* going to be lefty coded. When people say something like Jin Roh or FMA or Gundam for gods sake are right wing its like saying Fight Club, Taxi Driver or another Scorsese film, etc, is right wing because incels soyjak at the main character thats written to make fun of them.
You gotta read the artist and not the audience.
>>27418>Again, go read classical literature or something, putting some anime like Eva on a pedestal is a very Internet thing to do,People only say this kind of thing when anime they like is being attacked, but no one actually believes it. All of us have opinions on anime which we feel strongly enough about to defend them online, or we wouldn't be here.
And again, I didn't even say that KonoSuba is BAD.
>>27431>Correctly? Shonen shows like Devilman, Violence Jack, Fist of the Northstar, Attack on Titan, Fullmetal Alchemist (2003), JoJo and Legend of the Galactic Empire are in no way juvenile, even compared to the "10/10 masterpiece" that is EvaThere is no point in arguing this but why the fuck is everyone assuming I'm a big Eva fan? Every response I've gotten in this thread is just people putting words in my mouth.
>>27432>I think "shonen vs seinen" is more of a generational war thing like "zoomers vs boomers."Yeah? Marketing for teenagers vs marketing for adults is obviously based on drawing a distinction between generations. What's even your point?
>>27569>That being said, some blatantly political art is good actually. Everyone says that they don't like political art until you ask them what albums or movies they like and half of it tends to be blatantly political. You can't make good art with no connection to life and you can't connect to life without connecting to politics.>People hate art for being "political" only when the art becomes dishonest or otherwise faulty in service of political means.>The desire to not integrate the artists political views with their political works generally stems from a desire to not acknowledge the fact that your political opponents actually have some nuance in their positions and can present a coherent view of at least some part of reality while still disagreeing with you. Understanding right wing art /as/ right wing art is not to dismiss it, but to better understand the kernels of rationality within right wing viewpoints so as to better understand them and beat them. Dismissing the right wing nature of works like Serial Experiments Lain is in service of misunderstanding and underestimating your political opponents. >I do not wish to understand art as right wing so that I may damn it, nor do I understand art as left in order to praise it. I understand both as they are in order to understand the world as it is. I think left art /tends/ to be better, since correctness and coherence in one sphere correlates with correctness and coherence in another, but that is not absolute.Yours is the only post in this discussion that reads like it was written by an adult, congratulations.
People will go as far as denying that art can have any meaning whatsoever because they can't summon the courage to just say "yes, this story probably encodes right-wing values, but I still like it". It's ironic that the people going "ideas don't even matter bro" seem so afraid to confront the ideas behind the things they like, as if there was any potential negative consequence to it other than gaining a richer understanding of something, its context and its creator.
And no, having a richer understanding of things isn't good because it's Marxist, it's good for that other thing which some of us call "life".
>>27983The writer seems to presently be a fairly cliche conspiracy-obsessed fascist. Whether he was like that in 2003 I don't know.
>In 2021, Konaka wrote a stage drama for Digimon Tamers' 20th anniversary that was performed at DigiFes 2021, an official Digimon event held annually on August 1. The drama featured the cast of the show being confronted by a physical manifestation of "political correctness" that uses "cancel culture" as an attackHe also apparently thought that covid 19 was created as a conspiracy to force people to get vaccinated.
>>27994rude
>The drama featured the cast of the show being confronted by a physical manifestation of "political correctness" that uses "cancel culture" as an attackbased digimon vs dustborn
>>28068>2020 twitter >likes anti covid ralliestwitter users were telling everyone to gigavax n shit
>alt-right shitit's old man yelling at cloud-ism
he's not wrong tho :^)
>>28168I remember when anime was assumed to be leftist and therefore "degenerate".
Nowadays it's the opposite.
And no, right wing anime isn't all shota and loli.
>>28219>Libertarian cringeAnime can be cringe but it's not "libertarian"
>>28237Ah of course. .
"Muh pedophilia".
They say the same thing about Disney movies.
>>27052>>27082First, this chart seems like a troll.
Second, almost none of these animes could be called right wing other than AoT, but in the case of AoT it's shoddy writing and not the mangaka being right wing imo.
Third, art is inevitably leftist, I'll explain why.
The right wing voter only adopts the ideology because they were brutalized or misinformed. No one wants to live in a place like Pakistan where you need private guards and to live in walled compounds because society lacks sufficient socialized institutions to function properly.
If you actually care about hard work, as well as the moral and intellectual health of society you will inevitably be a leftist. There is no reasonable argument to allow massive externalized costs in society or to inefficiently provide a service piecemeal such as having private guards and walled compounds a la Pakistan. It is much more efficient that everyone is provided what they need in order to occupy the highest margin positions available to better society.
Even hardcore, right wing capitalists themselves will admit that you need socialized institutions and that the government will gradually get larger and larger as the conditions we live in become more complex. The ones who don't agree, are discussing the topic in bad faith. The best way to achieve the social goals of the right, is almost always through socialism.
FMAB never seriously considers the superstructure as a leading cause for exploitation and harm coming to the general population. This is a failure of writing. The mangaka probably did not intend to write a right wing story.
AoT it's hard to say. I don't think AoT is worth serious literary analysis because of a certain twist that the ending hinges on. They don't take that twist seriously enough and it poisons the entire plot. I'm not sure AoT was even written with that twist in mind. Again, likely a failure of writing.
LotGH is not right wing. LotGH is specifically about when the democracy started to fail, and the best way to provide for the well being of the population at large. LotGH ALWAYS prefers democratization and socialism where possible. It specifically states that regressive social structures are bad, and that everyone should be empowered to end up in the station where they provide the most value to society.
Please read into the Kerberos Panzer Cop Expanded Universe and you will see Jin Roh is actually a deeply pessimistic analysis of fascism and militarism's ability to rule. The entire expanded universe is about how the Kerberos Unit is destined to die out. Nazi Germany won ww2 in the Jin Roh universe, and fascism is still unable to keep its grip on society. The message of the expanded universe is that liberalization is inevitable. The Kerberos Unit's revolution fails horribly. They are almost all hunted down and killed.
Calling Gundam right wing is so absurd I won't even address it.
Suffice to say I don't think right wing art is very common. Unless you specifically set out to create right wing art, even a person who consciously subscribes to right wing ideology will make art in line with leftist ideology and values. This is because they only hold those right wing beliefs due to brutalization, lack of education, or because right wing ideology is a temporary stop gap as society develops the efficiency required to socialize more aspects of the governmental and economic system. Funnily enough Jin Roh's entire theme is about this, that inevitably the leftists are going to be correct, and militarism/fascism are doomed, but somehow OP thought it was right wing because it had the aesthetics of nazi uniforms.
>>27075>>27078>>27079>>27080Read Kerberos Panzer Cop and watch "The Red Spectacles" as well as "Stray Dog" which are part of the universe if you still care. The whole expanded universe is how the Kerberos Unit's revolution fails.
I think the reason Jin-Roh's OST has art showing cogs and gears is to indicate how people get caught up in ideas like militarism and how it makes them give up their humanity, hate and harm people they would've otherwise been friends with, and ultimately lead to their own destruction. Jin-Roh is sort of optimistic in that sense because the expanded universe's opinion is clearly that militarism and fascism, even if they win a temporary military victory, are not sustainable.
>>28265Oshii is a reactionary right-winger that has been whining about marxists holding back military spending and article 9 for decades and his Ito Hirobumi dick riding manga is loaded with Jinroh gags, I don't think its that deep. The guy literally calls himself an emperorist and has heaped praise on Ronald Reagan
>Calling Gundam right wing is so absurd, I won't even address itPlenty of those associated with Gundam would, and if you want examples of right-wing manga, Buronson and Koji Kumeda's works are big examples of it. Hell, Shima Kosaku was so stupidly right-wing that the socialist party issued a statement calling it out
>>28268Maybe I had a different view because I treated it as a collected work. I didn't look into if different people made Jin Roh, Kerberos Panzer Cop, and the two other films. I could also be totally wrong in general. Anyway I think it's hard to say the series really says yeah militarism is going to go well for you when they all end up dead and fail in their mission.
This is what I mean, the author might be right wing, they might've even had a vague right wing intent, but then the work itself ends up feeling a lot more left wing.
>>28273>that accountHow do you base your whole life around children's cartoons. It's going to be funny in the future when millenials are in their 70s with a sailor moon PFP.
Imagine taking your obsession with such childish art so far that you do a deep dive into the makers backgrounds to finds ones you want to cancel.
>>28273I'm sure many of these creators have right wing beliefs, particularly when your criteria is primarily American social issues and not meaningful economic ones. I don't think that's sufficient to say Jin Roh actually advocates for fascism. Everything I read points to the entire media franchise being anti-war and showing the outcomes of refusing to liberalize. I won't deny that Oshii supports right wing politicians in Japan, I'm denying that this implies Oshii's work somehow supports fascism or even any meaningful amount of right wing policy as it relates to exploiting the poor or justifying their exploitation.
Right wing art does exist. When I recently rewatched The Dark Knight it was clearly a commentary on the Patriot Act and mass surveillance. They use the fictional Joker character as justification for mass surveillance and then Batman destroys the system used for mass surveillance. This was disgusting to me. I don't see anything like this in Oshii's work.
>Affirmative ActionAffirmative action is not, and never will be a real solution to the systemic problems that minority communities face. Those require actual systemic change. Sending a few black kids to Harvard when they lack the educational credentials to get in there otherwise has not fixed black communities. Nothing here is right wing. He is not opposing improving the systemic conditions minorities face. Nothing in his work advocates for fucking over minorities.
>Opposition to Political CorrectnessSome of the least politically correct people you will meet are those that advocate for socialist reform or communism, by definition. People are extremely uncomfortable with the idea. If you start bringing up statistics regarding how many people die as a result of decisions insurance companies make, you will be heavily judged in contemporary America, particularly in a professional context. I think it's fair to say that American political correctness was more about virtue signaling than meaningful change or even actual lefitst policy.
>On BeautyFurther, there is some level of objectivity in appearance. Being obese is objectively bad for your health. Having something like smallpox scars indicates an adverse condition in the past. It's up to you to decide what you think is beautiful and what is not, but there is some objective basis in what a previously and currently healthy or attractive person looks like. Again, I question the premise here.
>Mamoru Oshii is a self claimed "Emperorist"I'll have to ignore the Emperorist part because this is google translate and that claim is not consistent with his actual work.
>Mamoru Oshii supports the funding of Japanese military researchThis is not a right wing policy. The Japanese citizenry may or may not like the current arrangement, but the US is an empire in decline. The USA will not always be around to provide military protection to Japan. They should have some level of self sufficiency in military affairs. This does not imply he wants to invade foreign countries or have an insane military budget. He could just as well be arguing against a fictional form of Marxism in his head that views all national defense as unnecessary because of an incoming international revolution. Japan does have to think about how they'll interact with China with the US empire appearing to have crossed an inflection point.
>The X thread you linkedWhile this proves Oshii in his free time consciously supports right wing politicians, the rest of the issues this guy brought up are not related to the left/right wing dichotomy. For instance, the nuclear armament of Japan. This is not a left or right wing issue. For Japan, it is objectively good for them to procure nuclear weapons. To call Mamoru Oshii's work itself right wing is a big stretch. As I said there is some level of inevitability where art will always tend towards the left even when produced by people with consciously right wing beliefs. This is because deep down they know they lack sufficient moral basis to victimize other groups. Many of the issues brought up here are simply not relevant to the left-right dichotomy and are more about American social issues. Nothing in Jin Roh or Kerberos Panzer Cop as a whole justifies the exploitation of other people from what I remember.
>>28275I don't believe Jin Roh advocates fascism, Oshii has done plenty of interviews in which he clearly states its about state control vs. insurgent rebellion, neither of which offering any hope
>Some of the least politically correct people you will meet are those that advocate for socialist reform or communismTrue, but it's pretty obv were not talking about these people
>I'll have to ignore the Emperorist part because this is google translate and that claim is not consistent with his actual work.Again, he has literal right-wing works where he heaps praise and justifies the Korean War, see わんわん明治維新 (リュウコミックス), this work was done alongside Tetsuya Nishio, who worked on Jin-Roh as well(which is why its loaded with Jin-Roh gags).
>This is not a right wing policyIt is in Japan when Article 9 exists, which prohibits Japan from maintaining an active army. If you support constitutional reforms of Article 9, you are firmly on the right wing, and if you don't, you are very much taking a strong left-wing position. The CDP, Japanese communist party, Social Democratic Party all firmly support Article 9 and oppose a standing army in Japan. Also, nuclear energy is one of the most partisan issues, and again, overwhelmingly opposed by the left wing
>>28274It's no different from Silent Gens and boomers wearing Disney and Warner Bros cartoon iconography on their clothing.
Methinks you just hate anime just because it's not all badassery like superheroes are
>>28286They had sexual implicative depiction of Disney/Warner Bros characters.
Also, no, anime characters aren't inherently porno/pedo.
This is the same accusation they accuse Disney of.
Again this anti-Oriental sentiment you reek of
>>28286How are they different? They're all chibi type.
Have you not seen Betty Boop?
You know that anime character designs were based on Disney characters?
>>28298The first one is an upskirt shot with the miniskirt barely covering her ass. It's not even official art anyways. All besides the point. If you guys had pictures of lilo and stitch all over everything it would already be sus.
Again who are you trying to gaslight all this "lolicon" shit isn't pedophillic? You got gacha games where you collect lolis. Also adult buxom babes. What do they have in common? You are collecting softcore porn images and some like the buxom adult women, some like loli, some like both, but bottom line the game is selling sex.
You think anyone can't see through that shit in a second? You aren't fooling anyone.
>>28300>>28301>>28302Lmao, you pedos are really going to look at every softcore porn ass pic and tell me whether it is what it obviously is or not. Well we are at least in agreement that this pic:
>>28297Fits the criteria.
What makes it so different? She is fully clothed wearing a bathing suit? What makes it sexually suggestive and the other not?
>>28310>people that are disgusted don't even interact with it, they just go ew and leave.Probably the reaction I should've stuck with regarding this board from the get go, but I'm interested in leftist politics and there aren't a lot of great websites to discuss it. I don't see why it's integral to put all your disgusting fetishes on this website. There are a million other websites for that.
Also I don't want you freaks anywhere near leftist politics. The CIA couldn't make a better controlled op plant to discredit it.
Anyways, apologies for being so blunt, but you dumb motherfuckers seem like you can't understand if I try to be anymore subtle.
>>27052>texhnolyzeThe ultimate bad guy is the ultimate form of a deluded, selfish(Randian) egoist and the whole thing is filled with Nietzschean allegories and if you think Nietzche was promoting Nazism you have never seriously engaged with his work. He didn't believe in vulgar egalitarianism but a welfare state is not the goal of communism/socialism.
>>27994>fascistThrowing that word at anything
>cancel cultureThis libshit is the most reactionary bullshit and if you weren't such a goldfish brain you'd remember how it was attempted against even the meekest of the Bernie Sanders supporters because he had too much support with "white men" and they were "bullies" for criticizing the DNC too much. Cancel culture is an ideological state apparatus and just because neo-nazis shouldn't be allowed to do rallies at universities doesn't change that fact.
>well he said some shit at this unrelated event so all his work is fascistThis is not how critique of film/television works. This is you being a brainless ideologue and judging by your post I'm emphasizing "brainless."
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