/anime/ - Anime

>>29965
also the monk/teacher trope with this and their backstory being tied to the main character
i don't know what this trope is called but it's so common and lazy

Vegeta was kept alive after Saiyan Saga due to editorial and fan pressure. This historical event gave birth a terrible precedent.

>>29969
Vegeta isnt really a morally ambiguous character, he is by any measure an evil person, just has a couple people he personally cares about.

>>29969
It's still more work to redeem an evil character through efforts rather than kill him off to do it instantly, the worst part of stories is having the payoff immediately after the setup with nothing in between

>>29969
it was fine then because dragon ball isn't that serious. it also directly influenced the entertaining moral insanity of hunterxhunter. it's really when shonen writers started being for better or for worse the dickenses of our age that shit started going downhill

>>29969
>Sasuke
I dislike Sasuke, but that is a fucking reach. Technically the most Sasuke did was kill Danzo (a dirtbag glowie) and he was essentially gaslighted into wanting to destroy Konoha because his entire family was wiped out, (not to mention general psychosis spiral). Also him being redeemed was an inherent crux of the intended theme of the story, it's idealistic, but that was the point. Vegeta was an asspull but it's fucking DBZ, half the story is an asspull. He also literally dies (and the first time he only gets revived by accident) and essentially turns to the good guy side. Goku mourning Vegeta's death on Namek was a sort of respect

>>29965
Generic ass over-simplification with absolutely no understanding of the POINT of morally ambiguous or anti-hero characters. This is the youtube 'critic' school of writing critique.

>>30199
I never understood the hate for Sasuke in the Naruto fandom. He’s often the butt of jokes about being an “emo teenager” and all that. People forget this uygha witnessed his family being murdered at the tender age of six.
The only bad thing he did was gallivant off to train under Orochimaru

>>29969
It’s not as bad as how people glorify the Joker in DC.

>>29971
Tbh I tire of the redemption arcs for villains. I mean seriously, why can’t we allow villians to be properly punished for their deeds?

Meanwhile, protagonists who suffered under the villians and are cynical as a result are treated as “problematic teenagers”

>>30375
Because pretty much nobody agrees about what "proper punishment" is, and it's also mostly seen as vengeance (bad).
Minor villains also can be coerced or tricked into doing bad things, so it's another layer where you can question if he had agency in the first place (and thus should you even punish someone with no free will?)

>>29965
Not exactly the same but: GTA 4. Like every single dude you do missions for eventually betrays you and then you have to do a final boss mission where you kill like 100 of his henchmen to get to him, then they present you with a "moral dilemma" where the pussy begs you for their life and you get the option to spare them or kill them. I was always like: "I just killed like 100 dudes to get to you, of course you're going to fucking die." But that nets you the bad ending where the stupid Irish girlfriend dies, but who fucking cares.

>>30379
I call bullshit. The real reason is that villains in anime and some western animation tend to be drawn as being more physically attractive and wittier than the protagonists.
Second is because people love villains for creating messes for the heroes to clean up.
If villains were to be properly punished, the hunt would end and people would have to focus on reparation.
The truth is, most of the value of a story is in the heat of the chase.
Nobody cares about justice and compassion for the downtrodden.
They want more rage,more punches, more angst.

Why else is Dragonball loved so much?

>>30379
>>30382
To continue, people express more immediate vitriol for minor antagonists.
Bad isn't punished for evil, but rather for weakness or lacklustre.

That's why Orochimaru is allowed to live.

>>30383
Orochimaru is figuratively exactly what I said about vengeance, he's kept alive to stop le circle of hatred, that is the narrative reason

>>30384
"Stop the violence" is just an excuse.
People have more contempt for Obito, because of his motives for avenging a beloved female comrade

>>30386
You can't say it's an excuse and then defend vengeance, that's ridiculous, obito was also pardoned post death, that was the entire point of the last fight between naruto and sasuke, that "bad" people are forced by their circomstances (some people here would say material conditions), he wasn't even killed, he sacrificed himself
If you only mean readers talking bad about him, it's mostly because he had ONE death and lost his fucking marbles even tho he still had a village, a family, other friends etc, when pretty much every ninja in the series also had to witness somebody dying at some point in their lives.

>>30390
>If you only mean readers talking bad about him, it's mostly because he had ONE death and lost his fucking marbles even tho he still had a village, a family, other friends etc, when pretty much every ninja in the series also had to witness somebody dying at some point in their lives.

Readers hated on Sasuke for not conforming to. Naruto's idealism in the beginning.

I just notice that MCs who aren't positive goof balls that easily turn the other cheek are seen as monsters.

Hakuryuu Ren from Magi: Labyrinth of Magic
He had witnessed his brothers being killed in a house fire started by his mom, Gyokuen (who was possessed by Arba).

He wanted to avenge his brothers and the fandom hate him for his cynicism