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File: 1608528777155.gif (1.04 MB, 418x454, Tastetherainbow.gif)

 No.373[View All]

How would you go about fixing the Isekai (sub?)genre from its current state of mediocrity and stagnation?
212 posts and 60 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.14682

>>14674
>they're light novels
>LIGHT
This stops being an argument when they go on for decades.
>fan translations
Have poor structure, are riddled with spelling mistakes, and are, again, not all that great all things considered. At best you get what the author tried to convey, but none of the style (if any). Books are more than a simple summary of events that take place.

>>14676
>bother learning the language
Not even japanese adults can understand their own language. But I'm sure you are the special intellectual exception that simultaneously knows Japanese and isn't bored by the derivative isekai trash that's indiscernible from all other genre-fiction. But I get the erp.

 No.14683

>>14682
what a weirdly defensive reply

 No.14688

>>14683
Defending who?

 No.14689


 No.14708


 No.15518

File: 1654441375298.jpg (458.15 KB, 650x924, 1644303889582.jpg)

>>13851
>>13850
>>13396
>Isekai MC got dumped by his girlfriend in his original world so the first thing he does is purchase a slave to do his bidding.
This is pretty much exactly how isekai fans think. I'm still surprised there isn't a single fucking one I've read in recent time where the guy is like "fuck slavery, I don't give a shit if it's legal here" and burn the place down with his bullshit powers and suicidal NEET brain, you can even say one girl stays with him because he saved her from slavery if you REALLY need that as a plot point.
Isn't that the most obvious shit? It says a lot about (Japanese) society that every single MC thinks buying slaves is fine because it's legal. I think there might be exceptions but I can't remember them and they're an overwhelming minority.

 No.15523

>>15518
Are you me ? I got spooked I read a post made by myself that I couldn't remember.
>>13850
that's only fine if the MC can't actually do anything about it because he doesn't have bullshit level of power,and is actually buying the most rebellious of the bunch to give him insider info,and at least remove the fucking slave seals holy shit (and If you want to make your MC a pragmatic villain,make him remove the seal in the middle of the forest,and tell the scrawny slave that she can go die in the forest a free person,or choose to willingly submit to him and continue living,to build up a stockholm syndrome but without pretending it's not one)

 No.15543

>>15518
>>15523
lmao i felt like i made a post like that same pic and all too…….

 No.15551

File: 1654514038183.jpg (Spoiler Image, 407.38 KB, 1039x1500, mkr.jpg)

Picrel was mostly good, and there should be more isekai like such.

>>15518
Someone should try to make isekai story that's allegory about the master-slave dialectic, or alternatively a similar sort of "bait and switch" one, in which the MC eventually gets overthrown by his "harem" and reincarnated back into the original world.

 No.15552

Delete it

That’s it. The genre is fundamentally a cash cow genre from its core design EXACTLY like superhero media. Just offing it entirely is easier for the industry than bullshitting endless different takes and twists to make it any good

 No.15585

File: 1654617468060.png (1.03 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

>>15518
>burn the place down with his bullshit powers and suicidal NEET brain, you can even say one girl stays with him because he saved her from slavery if you REALLY need that as a plot point.
This ironically kinda the plot of Fisher Tiger burning Marie Joise.

 No.16659

>Maruyama stated that the opposite sex yearns for strong men. He regarded this to be nothing more than a mere symptom of the messiah complex mechanism, in order to preserve the species of their human race. It was acquired through evolution, from intermingling with the helpless members of the species.

Is there a single isekai author that isn't a fascist

 No.16660

>>15552
you know they do it because people like the concept so they can get away with sub par shit right ?.

 No.16661

>>16659
Overlord is shit and the simping female characters for the OP faglord (and gratuitous murder of them) is demonstrative of it.

 No.16663

>>16661
>and gratuitous murder of them
wut

 No.16665

>>16663
I recall a couple clips that have Ainz kill female enemies in horrific ways and be totally unharmed by them, in the mean time his "party" has females that obsess over him like drooling fangirls.

 No.16666

>>16665
Oh, yeah. There's one he literally squeezes the guts out of, but she kind of deserved it.

 No.16667

>>16665
>>16661
I'm not seeing the relation.

 No.16668

>>16665
Catherine deserved it.
I'm still on the fence on it,since it seems to hint that what he did to Albedo is going to blow up in his face at one point,but nothing happened so far (and I don't remember the novel adressing it either,so I'm probably just making up a scenario where it's not anticlimatic)
The majority of the woman in the story are psychotic/sadistic tbh,so I wouldn't be surprised if he has a weird view of them.
Where did Maruyama said the text above ?

 No.16669

>>16666
Nice 6666 GETs
Yes she deserved it, but my point is that it is done gratuitously.
>>16668
>The majority of the woman in the story are psychotic/sadistic
And Ainz is the one that beats them, get fawned over by some of them and is generally the only relatively level-headed one that also plays 4D chess. It's a really lazy power fantasy that bored me to shit, literal Log Horizon levels of inanity.

 No.16672

>>16668
>since it seems to hint that what he did to Albedo is going to blow up in his face at one point
I doubt it. That would involve the keikaku not being doori and that's not how Isekai works. He explains to her early on what he did to her and her response is basically "I don't care."

I guess she wants to kill the other supreme beings for leaving them, but considering how it's 4 seasons/14 volumes in and there hasn't been a hint of anyone else from the guild being there yet, it seems like another damp squib.

I don't know about anyone else but season 4 fucking sucks so far.

 No.16674

>>16672
1.Leave my copium alone
2.Very disappointed with how it's been going,It's farther than the manga and it decides to just adopt the slow as fuck approach of the novel,when you should just use visual as part of the storytelling instead of wasting everyone time.

 No.16675

>>16674
Yeah. I just went back and rewatched the other three seasons and there's a lot going on in them at any given time. Now it just feels like it's wasting our time. It set up the Godkin and that fucking dragon two seasons ago and hasn't done shit with them. With all the other stuff going on did we really need to spend 10 minutes on who gets to sit in Jack Skellington's lap? Or half an episode explaining how he got in the coliseum? SNOOZERS.

 No.16685

>>16675
>With all the other stuff going on did we really need to spend 10 minutes on who gets to sit in Jack Skellington's lap?
This cracked me the fuck up.

 No.16689

>>16675
you WILL watch the scene where the bugs want you to sit on them and you WILL like it chvd

 No.16741

File: 1660676578215.jpeg (44.73 KB, 746x918, J07qlKp.jpeg)

>>13353
Okay, not strictly anime but I did find a short piece of original fiction that, in a very much comedic manner, explores what might happen if John Brown was isekai'd when his sentence was carried out to an exaggerated parody version of your typical fantasy world with clueless Japanese protagonists, sleazy nobles, slave harems and all. It was honestly a really good read for something that was so short.

For those who do want to read it:
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/57505/his-soul-is-marching-on-to-another-world-or-the

 No.16742

>>16741
Fucking Kek, this reminds of the Familiar of Louise the Zero fanfic where she summoned Che Guevara instead of Saito.

 No.16745

This season of Overlord is fucking dogshit.

 No.16746

>>16745
>Overlord is fucking dogshit
FTFY

 No.16748

>>16746
I'm so sorry that every day you wake up and have to endure the agony of a world where people enjoy things that you don't

 No.16750

File: 1660779585887.png (428.03 KB, 512x488, let people- no.png)

>>16748
Get better taste lol

 No.16997

File: 1663387709350.jpg (172.39 KB, 1333x1333, liberals anime.jpg)

So someone on /siberia/ shat themselves over link rel being supposedly /pol/shit, mostly because the subject is "Progressivism in isekai stories is retarded"
https://boards.4channel.org/a/thread/242590407
https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/242590407
Not one to trust anyone on the internet at face value, especially on a /b/oard, I clicked the link and read the OP and it has no /pol/ shit. Instead it greatly points out the hypocritical and ignorant white-saviour story telling of "progressive" Isekai. The OP makes very concise and logical points, not ranting about le gays and or jooz, but specifically pointing out material inconsistencies and impossibilities of "progressive" isekai stories that try to retroactively make their medieval settings not actually medieval or have any conflicts beyond, le cartoonishly evil guyz and their mooks.
To repost and analyze the OP of that thread:
>MC for some reason thinks it's a great idea for different races, or even species, to start living together while completetly ignoring historical antagonisms and their incompatible lifestyles.
Inb4 racism; A) unlike human 'races' these are LITERALLY different biological races that have markedly different cultures and material development. Human cultures have many differences, but many aspects repeat themselves across hundreds of cultures, many completely isolated from one another, because human development generally has similar material progress over time, only regional differences leading to details of culture being unique (such as music or art).
>Gods, magic and higher powers exist, but atheism is an acceptable 'religion'.
This is to say that, it's not that atheism is bad, but it is illogical in the face of irrefutable evidence of divinity, not worshipping a god doesn't mean being atheistic, as atheism is the disbelief of gods. The only time Atheism functions in such a world is if the MC is challenging a false god that has bamboozled people.
>A big appeal of the story is becoming part of the upper-nobility of a feudalistic civilization, but once MCs achieves exactly that they jumpkick an industrial revolution, introduce democracy, and then erase the distinction between nobility and peasants. This will inevitably lead to a society that the Isekai tried to escape from in the first place.
I.E. Isekai MCs escape modern capitalist society, yet their solution to monarchist problems is to reintroduce the capitalist society and end up in the very same alienating system they fled from.
>MC is born from nobles or special parents which gives him OP abilities, but the Author pretends that the MC is somehow "untalented" and a self-made man.
>Author writes a chapter oozing with self-righteousness about how our MC dislikes slavery and prejudice while his entire setting is filled with nothing but carbon-copies of the same sterotypical races, archetypes and storylines we've seen a hundred times already (bonus points if the MC """""liberates"""""" a hot, underage slave girl and includes her into his harem).
As discussed in >>15518 and other post ITT.
>"The bad guys" are always ugly and "the good guys" always attractive, but physiognomy as a concept is dismissed as 'prejudiced'.
I.E. racial caricatures exist, but only if it is expedient to the plot.

It's literally beyond Captain Planet levels of bad story and writing, because at least Captain Planet is self-aware and campy about itself.

 No.16998

>>16997
you didnt even read the thread

 No.16999

>>16998
I read the OP, (the main point of the /siberia/ pants-shitting post) and it had no /pol/ sentiments in it. In fact the /pol/ posts came from the /a/fags shitting themselves about their modern isekai animu fantasies being called out for the hypocritical trash it is and feeling called out themselves for their hypocrisy.

 No.17000

>>16997
Going by the shitty image that you'd expect from some right-winger trying to troll epic style and whining about different races being together, everything you posted is a literal projection of your own values onto the other poster.

>inb4 racism

It quite literally is. Do you also whine when shows aren't "historically accurate" when they cast black people or whatever?

>>16999
>it had no /pol/ sentiments in it
You're a very intellectually honest, delusional, or at worst retarded.

 No.17001

File: 1663388278431.png (122 KB, 307x354, tired elf lady.png)

>>16997
>Inb4 racism; A) unlike human 'races' these are LITERALLY different biological races that have markedly different cultures and material development. Human cultures have many differences, but many aspects repeat themselves across hundreds of cultures, many completely isolated from one another, because human development generally has similar material progress over time, only regional differences leading to details of culture being unique (such as music or art).
Fuck, I deleted B)

B) Unlike humans these different fantasy races have completely different biological, social and regional material development and many have had ancient feuds against other races (see Elves and Dwarves) so the MC haphazardly overcoming centuries of hatred and prejudice and moreover mashing together distinct cultures inorganically a la liberal "tolerance" is just idiotic and ignores the effort it takes to unite even differing members of the same race, let alone utterly separate ones. The USSR spent a decade of extreme social purging and iron-fisted organization to eliminate ethno-nationalist conflict and promote proletarian brotherhood, and even then despite 7 decades of this, this kind of ethno-nationalist conflict rose up again in the 90s to today. Now picture the same in a medieval time and among literally different species of race.

 No.17002

File: 1663388691855.png (1.56 MB, 2544x2000, ClipboardImage.png)

>>17000
>It quite literally is
Fucking how you hack
>shows aren't "historically accurate" when they cast black people
<If you think historical accuracy isn't important or material reality and so narrative consistency is important, then you're raseest
You're that retard from the Little Mermaid thread aren't you?
>shitty image
<Oh no the image called liberals out as big mouthed idiots, that must be bad
Feeling called out lib? I see you still haven't managed to pull on that red-coated mask over your radlib face.
>expect from some right-winger trying to troll epic style
No faggot, calling out libs for being retarded has been something leftypol has done since day one, idiot.
<whining about different races being together
has literally nothing to do with the image, you're projecting. Also That's not the post you fucktard, See >>17001 you undialectical ignoramus. Read fucking Marx.
>everything you posted is a literal projection of your own values onto the other poster
No, you're just assmad and have a boogieman rent-free in your empty pot of a head.

 No.17003

File: 1663388787068.png (497.38 KB, 593x671, Thinking Kizaru.png)

>>16998
>you didnt even read the thread
And as >>17000 demonstrates, you didn't read my post.

 No.17005

The totally not racist /v/edditor had to make three separate posts with le reaction face but everyone else is assblasted but him.

 No.17007

File: 1663390241216.jpg (37.26 KB, 559x263, deceitful liberal.jpg)

>>17005
>Everyone I don't like is /v/, /pol/ and a liberal at the same time! I-I'm not seething U are, No u!
Disingenuous, projected strawmen do not hide your liberalism.
>le reaction image on an imageboard!
Oh no! Anyway…

 No.17179

>>16997
>unlike human 'races' these are LITERALLY different biological races that have markedly different cultures and material development.

Most of those differences in "biology" comes down to ear shape and beard length, in some cases "racial" talents like "elfs are good at magic, dwarfs are good at smithing". Anf of course erotic sensistivity in various places for female variants fo the species, which is a very important point for "medieval fantasy". Speaking of soecies, most of them can't even be called different species since they are close enough to produce offspring with functional reproductive organs. Their cultures usually differ even less, and in fact differ even less that actual human cultures could at that time period. Most of the are nothing but some sort of pastiche of human culture (like viking or spanish, in some rare coses something more exotic like aztec) just with monoethincity added on top. Material conditions are often quite similar too, so basically there is nothing that prevent multiple races as they are portrait in isekais and other "medieval" fantasy setting to coexist in the same society.

Not that authors usually think that deep anyway, more often it's just a bunch of historically ignorant stereotypes about our own societies sticked together on a pit and prayer. Hell, most of the settings have some sort of "academy" which is basically like a modern day school or university.

And even if races were different it wouldn't mean that they can't coexist, since common material condition will shape them to be more similar.

I more or less agree on the other points. Isekai is trash and it is often required for you to forget everything you know about history, material sciences and even formal logic to enjoy most of the stories.

 No.17180

File: 1664193249089.gif (9.91 KB, 800x600, real mermaid.gif)

>>17002
>Little Mermaid

 No.17219

File: 1664464038573.jpg (20.66 KB, 377x349, get help meds.jpg)

>>17180
>E-everyone I don't like is /pol/
Ok schizo

 No.17220

File: 1664464057458.png (94.15 KB, 500x758, Lings.png)

>>17179
>Most of those differences in "biology" comes down to ear shape and beard length
You're kidding right? Hobbits have hairy horny feet and are smaller than humans as adults and have a separate culture and origin. Dwarves are of Durin, born from the mountains and are short and hairy and stout. Elves are knife-eared lithe forest-spirits. Orcs are the descendants of corrupted elves and/or monsters created by dark sorcery. This concept of "they look similar so the racial differences don't matter is retarded… it's like saying humans and chimps aren't massively different enough so chimps are just a type of human. They have completely different origins and roles and their magic reflects that. This further shaped their cultures to be separate and only vague similarities exist.
>erotic sensistivity in various places for female variants fo the species
Ecchi-meme stuff TBH.
>most of them can't even be called different species since they are close enough to produce offspring with functional reproductive organs
Except this can also be done with beastmen and lizardmen…. because "magic" not because they're all that closely related, otherwise they'd literally have to all be Homo Sapiens.
>Their cultures usually differ even less
In shittier dime-a-dozen anime depictions, but generally their cultures seem to differ immensely in depictions that try.
>Most of the are nothing but some sort of pastiche of human culture
Because of lazy authors making cheap fantasy and not paying attention
>Material conditions are often quite similar too
As I explained, they're not supposed to be. Living underground mountains and excavating them for a living is completely different from being a forest dweller or a hill-burrowing farmer.
>often it's just a bunch of historically ignorant stereotypes about our own societies sticked together
>most of the settings have some sort of "academy" which is basically like a modern day school or university
Not untrue, but that's from the standpoint of a reader. From the standpoint of the story itself, these are still separate races and cultures and the problem of allying or making peace between them at a snap of the fingers is laughable in the face of real human-human conflict. As a side note, in Naruto one of the main goals that progressively becomes more important is peace between people by ending the cycle of Hatred… but Naruto finds that you can't just end animosity of generations or personal revenge by fists and words alone.
>even if races were different it wouldn't mean that they can't coexist, since common material condition will shape them to be more similar
My point is that the same can be said of humans… yet coexistence among peoples is still shaky despite millennia of progress and effort.

But thanks for the discussion and you're not incorrect in and of itself regarding most fantasy/isekai anime.

 No.17222

>>17220
You are mainly confusing your own depiction of species (obviously influenced by tolkien which is not the only way to describe them of course) with how it is depicted in media we discuss (isekai and other medieval fantasy mangas), so i don't think i will have to respond with specifics here. Though we might as well remember some other authors like Andrzej Sapkowski and his depiction of elven society that culdn't properly coexists with humans and with good reasons why.
>Except this can also be done with beastmen and lizardmen…. because "magic" not because they're all that closely related, otherwise they'd literally have to all be Homo Sapiens.
We are talking about biology, right? Biologically most elves, dwarves and beastment (unless going full furry, which is usually avoided in harem isekais except few weird cases) as theyr are portrait in media seems to be just subspiecies of homo sapience. Even without argument about reproduction, they are just not different enough to be called different species. Races probably is appropriate terms for that. In fact that magic argument goes both ways - maybe they are different based on magic not on biology? Though magic would probably be considered a material force there. Unless we are going for some sort of sentient magic force but then we are going into territory of settings which reality is based on idealism. not materialism which makes our discussion pintless.
>In shittier dime-a-dozen anime depictions, but generally their cultures seem to differ immensely in depictions that try.
Sure, that's true. Well, we mainly discuss regular isekais here since you are responding to critique of regular tropes in regular isekai. Not some few rare exceptions, though tbh none come to mind where culture would be so radically different that it would prohibit coexistion. Do you have examples?
>Because of lazy authors making cheap fantasy and not paying attention
No disagreement here, again, but still that just makes me right in ragards to most isekai fantasies.
>As I explained, they're not supposed to be. Living underground mountains and excavating them for a living is completely different from being a forest dweller or a hill-burrowing farmer.
True, but human cultures differed to same degree, don't they? Difference between a nomad and a farmer. Very big, but will go away withing ferw generations of living withing same material conditions. Though the question of course if you could make it last that long.

>From the standpoint of the story itself, these are still separate races and cultures and the problem of allying or making peace between them at a snap of the fingers is laughable in the face of real human-human conflict.

The whole point was in the argument that standpoint of the story where there is no such conflict (as many authors portrait it) there should be from a perspective of our knowledge. It is exactly fromthe point of view of the author and the story that no such conflict exists that you guys found problematic, no?
>My point is that the same can be said of humans… yet coexistence among peoples is still shaky despite millennia of progress and effort.
Sure, but we know why, right? not because of some biological differences or some cultural gaps that just can't be breached but because of the class system in our society.

>But thanks for the discussion and you're not incorrect in and of itself regarding most fantasy/isekai anime.

Thanks to you too. It's nice to have a civil discussion once in a while

 No.17223

1. Stop combining it whit harem
2. Make the new world actually unique and not the same fantasy dipshit Wich was reuse over and over again
3. Add werewolfs and Vampires
Thats about it

 No.17224

>>17223
I don't think the problem is uniqueness as much as it is lazyness. Authors mostly don't understand how societies operate especially medieval ones, so what comes out in the end results in nothing more than copy of the modern society plastered over overused medieval themes with weapons, armors, clothing, utilities and architecture being jumbled together from different time periods without sense or purpose. Let's not even talk about societal structure, since more often than not is is a copy of a modern society, almost always with high level commodification, with police and prisons and other stuff like that.

I would like to see a setting that would be thought out and had consistent laws about how it works even if it wasn't particulary original. And of course with decent character development.

 No.17249

>>17224
Absolutely right. I'd even go as far as arguing that nearly all japanese "fantasy" amounts to a carbon copy of modern japan with swords, elves and adventurers. Which makes perfect sense, given that is what japanese readers are familiar with, and that most fantasy seems to be escapist schlock. It'd be nice to see something like Wheel of Time that makes a great deal of effort to build a world that is vastly distinct from the modern one, but I guess that would entail actual effort and research so it's unlikely to be done.

 No.17260

>>373
Tell an actual compelling story with compelling characters instead of being a bunch of stupid horny bullshit for teenagers who just found out about nietzsche

 No.17272

stop pulling anime ideas from novel websites
the nationalists in japan have already caught on to this


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