How would you go about fixing the Isekai (sub?)genre from its current state of mediocrity and stagnation?
>>373To fix Isekai, you need a grand narrative. Why was we drawn to isekai? It's because that real world has become so bad we no longer hope for a good ending in a real world. A good isekai should be the one that not only provided escapism, but implicit show the solution to change the real world.
That's why I really those isekai that have MC quickly accept such things as slavery, because it teaches the readers to think that the only problem with this real world is that they're born unluckily into lower class, but not the system itself.
>>373No OP bullshit powers
No (generic) harem
No webtoon art style
No braindead MC
That's all you need imo.
>>377>No OP bullshit powersThis is really the entire problem with the genre now, for me.
As for the source of the problem? A bit of pasta from me on the subject:
>Any Isekai that don't make the fantasy natives look like backward morons?<Most older series that are created before the recent isekai boom.
>Huh. So where did this new arrogance come from?At first glance, I would've suggested the difference is vidya, since most of the newer and more cringey isekai are implicitly or explicitly running on JRPG/KMMORPG mechanics, whereas the older stories were just fantasy stories.
But on some consideration, I think the difference is sex (and to a lesser extent, age). Basically all of the modern isekai are shonen with a smattering of seinen, whereas all the best old isekai I can think of were josei (Twelve Kingdoms) or shojo (Escaflowne, Fushigi Yuugi).
During this time shonen/seinen fantasy of course existed, but very rarely using the pretext of parallel worlds. >>373I don't know why nobody is talking about it,but the inherent problem of isekai,is that it's not a genre,it's just a pretext,a premise,there is like 4 actual isekai who actually use the whole "another world" trope as an actual scenario.
There is a dire need to be an actual link between the real world and the fictional,something that makes the whole idea of going between worlds a meaningful choice for the story to go through.
if there is not that,then it's just a generic fantasy story with no stakes.
all the things
>>377 is complaining about is just bad powerfantasy writing,that has just been poured into it,because we're all craving dopamine in a shitty capitalist hellscape and it sells,so every editor and cynical artist tries to make a buck on it,and the fact that the current market for mangas is now just chasing around the ghosts of the past trying to remake the same thing over and over but having no idea or even envy to do it for most people,and even worse,going into a downward spiral were the demand is always created by the market,so everybody always wants the same thing in the end,if everything is shit,only shit is at the top.
This apply also to "old" isekai were the story of the fantasy world is interesting,but the pretext is still utterly asinine.
>>373> current state of mediocrity and stagnation1) Bring out another Season of Konosuba
2) Cancel grimdark edgelord shit like Re;Zero and Overlord as well as brainless shit like Log Horizon.
3) Take more obscure isekai LN series that have not been animated and make them.
>>374Hamefura, honzuki.
Theres litterally two female protagonist isekai airing right now and theyre both great.
>>373>How would you go about fixing the Isekai (sub?)genre from its current state of mediocrity and stagnation?Less powerfantasy. 90% of isekai is basically just a "i went into
some version of the past and i am now superhuman with my basic modern knowledge" or "i got litterally given godlike powers".
Shows like doctor stone are also just isekais.
Make the other world thing something actually meaningfull. At least half of isekais could work the exact same way with just a regular dude from the world they exist in right now. They just put in a dude or dudette from our own world in order to make it more relatable to the audience and because its an easy plot device.
Like hamefura is great, but so far you could have had the literal exact same show if instead of the MC "regaining her memories" she just had a vision of those things.
Though i guess that would rob us of the slight subversion (though it could have been a lot more on the nose for me tbh) of otome game tropes. Same for things like re zero. How would the show have been any different if the mc had been some random orphan that stumbled into the same place with the same curse? Him being from our own world literally does not play into the story at all.
I still like hamefura and re zero though.
>>375This. We got some gems like Konosuba, but it's time to do other stuff. Maybe 20 or so years from now we will have some fresh ideas for isekai.
Personally I would like to see some new attempts at stuff like Slayers and Record of the Lodoss War.
>>385Yeah, I think we're really getting burned out. Too many anime have played around with reincarnation into worlds with video game settings. I don't even think the old hook of gender bendered reincarnation is novel anymore since everyone is so used to it and of trans people now.
Personally I'd like another Crest of the Stars, with the same deeply thought out setting (the author tried to create his own language just like Tolkein), with epicness and romance. This time I'd just want with less princesses and more communism, and it'd be nice if the main characters weren't essentially fighting withing a neoliberal empire.
I'm hoping the next generation of Japanese directors will be further left and so we'll see some pretty cool leftist fantasy soon instead of the usual nationalism + neoliberalism.
>>384> the most generic "comedy" isekai in existenceIt isn't though. Just because Cautious Hero and other Isekai copy its gimmick doesn't mean it's generic since its one of the first to come out. Its satirical and politically incorrect without having an actual ideology and is thus amusing for it
>re;zero<unique
Time Loops have been an old hat since BEFORE Groundhog Day. Fuck there was a Naruto fanfiction published covering this EXACT concept before RE;Zero was even made. Re;Zero has an interesting CONCEPT, but executes it so horrendously that past the first 10 episodes, it becomes utter schlock. Like SAO it dangles interesting and good moments, only to then kick them to death, like that puppy in Elfen Lied.
Edgy grimdark shit and "muh 1 true waifu" is shit that plagues Isekai like SAO or Re;Zero. Either execute the idea fully or don't taint it.
>>389>it'd be nice if the main characters weren't essentially fighting withing a neoliberal empireLOL, that's a bit of a humblebrag, to say the least. Crest/Banner of the Stars isn't liberal, isn't even feudal, it's outright fascist revanchism. The Abh are basically Space Imperial Japan, playing up their "inscrutabru orientur curture" to justify their totalitarian society as an exotic quirk, and their "teehee we live in space and just politely annex planets under Not!Colonial governors"-schtick is basically Space Co-Prosperity Sphere.
But all of that is secondary to the central waifu plot.
If you want a politically conscious take on the same basic setting, play SC2.
>>395*I would
>>396I'm not familiar with the extent of outsourcing in western tv animation.
>>397Have you heard of the Animator Dormitory Project? It looks pretty interesting.
>>403>oooh I'm horny, let me love this guy for NO real reason<describing 90% of battle-harem anime
Kek
>>408Checked dubs.
I actually wouldn't mind them ending on 1 season simply due to the open-ended adventure potential it allows.
>>407I enjoyed it more than I should have.
When they showed how in the possible sequel they were going to liberate the world where Seiya previously failed I got hard. Really loved the darker parts of the show.
>>412>I got hardExcuse me!?
>>413Based trips
Holy shit I can't believe how much of this garbage there is.
>>1273Escaflowne was the best.
>>2264Eris
Pads
Her
Breasts
>>2265She has an overall better personality in comparison, which actually makes her tolerable unlike the drunk thot Aqua. So my question is:
Does
It
Even
Matter?
>>2268>Better PersonalityMaybe, Aqua is good once she's disciplined. Besides, Eris is a bit of a brevno (log).
Oh and
YES
IT
DOES
BIG-BREAST LIVES MATTER
>>389We're not being burned out, we're just lacking with any one anime/manga/LN that concretely and properly executes the ideas without hamstringing itself with plotholes, poor romantic lines and edginess.
SAO abridged actually does the concept of SAO much better than the original. And Konosuba and Cautious Hero demonstrate how one can play with the gamer Isekai genre humorously.
Reincarnated as a Slime, which uses gaming mechanics, also is good, because it embraces how OP the character is and manages a good story around it. If this kind of thing was applied to a real SAO-type gaming anime, we'd probably be satisfied.
>>373Do something other than a fantasy setting goddamn
Also make the MC just some guy who doesn't have bullshit powers
>>373The only solution is to pretty much just stop making them and return to tradition (fantasy anime). It seems to be slowly dying on its own, anyway.
Also fuck Konosuba, the anime was good (probably thanks to Deen's QUALITY) but the novels ended up turning into what it was parodying and had a shitty open ending, plus the author is a one-trick-pony hack who made at least two other works that are literally just Konosuba but with a few changes. Seriously, go look them up, the guy can't write anything else.
>>2602Cursed joke
>>2724>novels ended up turning into what it was parodyingBecause there is only so much you can do before the product has been wrung dry, by which point it's just extended for the monies.
>two other works Names please?
>>2724Eh, I don't mind them keeping the novels going. At this point I just enjoy the characters and want to continue reading about them doing shit.
I thought his wrestling series was fun, but I only watched the anime.
>>3506What I meant about SAO and DxD is how unique they were in their genre in terms of ideas.
DxD has held up for at least 12-16 volumes at least, and I still am interested in the rest of it, however the original 'magic' of DxD was how Issei, instead of being a wussy dude who has girls liking him for no reason and getting all ashamed of pervy things, is the opposite. He's an unabashed pervert who powers-up on the idea of groping and sucking tits. He peeps on girls unashamedly and his saving grace is his loyalty to friends and kindness. He's weak as fuck in the beginning, but through sacrifice and training gains power and the girls he was into start taking him seriously instead of a boytoy. Sure, it gets into a shonen power-wank later on, but that's part of the fun, since Issei is a reluctant fighter, who unlike most Shonen protags, doesn't like having strong rivals and a lust for fighting.
With SAO it was a relatively under-rated idea that was wasted quickly. Compare SAO to Log Horizon…. there are no fucking stakes in Log Horizon because death is nonexistent there. in SAO, if you die in the game you die IRL. But SAO wasted this potential instantly, both in the anime and in the LNs. This is why I liked SAO Abridged more. Sachi's death has lasting impact throughout the first season instead of being a forgotten "tragedy". Kirito is not some good person who's also a gamer, he's a broken and slightly sociopathic trauma victim who loves movies and other escapism. Despite his anti-social behaviour, he still is good at heart even if he's cruel in how he goes about it. The S-Class Ragu Rabbit cooked by a maxed out Cooking Skill had a logical result of making any food, real or virtual taste like garbage. There's plenty more, but point is, this is all non-existent in the original. It's so bland that they had to make it up with heart-tugging shit like Mother's Rosario and the brutal-over-reality of Alicization's edgefest.
TL;DR They began to squander their potential as steam and inspiration began to be lost.
>>3513Based.
>>412>SeiyaFor a moment I thought you were talking about Saint Seiya and I was hyped, then I realized this was referring to a different show… I am dissapoint.
>>373>make the setting something more interesting than just generic fantasy or video game world, something that would actually create interesting contrasts for the protagonist>alternatively, or additionally, make the protagonist something other than ordinary nondescript Japanese guy, give him interesting traits>no harem or powerfantasy bullshit>it doesn't even have to be a fighting or adventure plotEssentially fish-out-of-water stories are supposed to be interesting because of the contrasts between the MC and the world, most isekai is just blatantly "life sucks I wish I was an anime protagonist".
No meta shit either. I mean parodies and """deconstructions""" are alright but they're no solution and eventually become saturated themselves. You're just binding yourself to what's problematic about the genre.
Someone else mentioned Wizard of Oz. Literally one of the most famous stories in English literature is an isekai: Alice in Wonderland.
But truthfully it'd be best to let it die for a while. Sometimes something is so overdone and tired that even a good version can be hard to enjoy.
>>4971The key with Stargate was in making Earth a low-tech backwater usually protected by little more than obscurity or treaty obligations between actual galactic superpowers, and Earth itself only eking out wins against them by exploiting preexisting tensions within/among its enemies and encouraging allies to play to strengths they didn't know they had through an "outside the box" perspective.
Ironically, in spite of USAF involvement (possibly even because of it, on a horseshoe basis of the conflict between 'merkin ideology, versus actual behavior deeply contradictory with those ideological ideals) I think Stargate's story ideologically feels less like imperialist propaganda, and more like anti-imperialism.
There's even an interesting contrast in how Earth handles these utterly superior enemies between SG-1 and Atlantis **. Where in SG-1 Earth wins through these machinations playing on the weaknesses of great powers, versus Atlantis, where Earth's presence in Atlantis just desperately makes even bigger messes and fucks up repeatedly because it's just Earth and totally marginal allies versus one pretty much unified enemy.
>>5113Man, his absence never stops hurting.
Though thinking of him, Paranoia Agent's message was about 70% of what the most vicious and laser-accurate takedown imaginable of isekai's worst failings would look like.
>>5103double checked, nicu-desu
>>5123It's subverting tropes typical - i.e. le handsome bishounen getting to live the real life! - having it be a spider and let shenanigans ensue.
>muh power upNo shit, it's a silly escapist fantasy, not a serious work. Nobody claimed it was.
>>5107All good things come to an end usually
>>5344Havent heart anything about second season, first one covered 40-50 chapters, and currently the manga is on 80, so there is not enough material to adapt yet.
>>5345I would not say it is fascist, thematically its kind of like edgier Lord of the Rings. Uniting people of all races to defeat great evil and all. But yes, it has that Japanese quality where you can tell author does not share our sensibilities concerning WW2.
>>5114currently rewatching and taking notes because I didn't understand it on a first viewing, I'll have to take your word for it lol
>>5006gave the first episode a go, it looks good. significantly more trashy than I would have liked, I guess you can't have it all tho
>>5378>currently rewatching and taking notes because I didn't understand it on a first viewingIf you watch while understanding the main message to be "self-deception is bad", the show obviously hammers nonstop on these points.
I think it couldn't get any blunter than in the final episodes when the older detective
smashes apart a literal cardboard fantasy of his idealized memories after his frail wife singlehandedly
fights off the gargantuan Shonen Bat with nothing more than a stern lecture on sincerely accepting her own failings and making do despite them.
>>9078it's a pretty dumb and usually pathetic trope: hurr I wasted my life until I died but the universe loves me so much I get to start all over in a world where video games are real and I am the only Chad so all the Staceys naturally fall for only me
like there's wish fulfillment and then there's isekai
>>9084>hurr I wasted my life until I died but the universe loves That's not what Isekai is, that's a plot device method that poorly made Isekai take part in.
Pic related are all Isekai, and most are good movies and stories
>in a world where video games are real You've described not even 1/3 of in-another-world fiction.
>I am the only Chad so all the Staceys naturally fall for only meAgain that's the most generic cashgrab garbage, not the majority of the genre
> there's wish fulfillment and then there's isekai Yeah you need to expand to actually good Isekai instead of consuming shit and claiming all of the genre is shit. You sound like a person who sees Hunger Games and denounces all dystopian fiction as "muh chosen one" garbage.
>>9095>shit that are not isekai <Isekai is literally 'in another world'/fish out of water storiesAre you ok?
>schizo strawman about other fictionConcession accepted.
>>9098you are retarded and don't know what isekai is
you should kill yourself
>>9111Stay mad, no argument brainlet
>>9106It's called Lastman
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6296094/ >>9111>you are retarded and don't know what isekai isWhat is it according to you?
How are the movies in the pic not isekai?
Anyone watch Redo of Healer? I've only seen the summary and clips but frankly while it's an interesting concept, it feels really friggin' edgy, especially with it being a 'harem' show that gets down to it. Aa comment I read summarizes my impression of the show from what I've gleaned of it, "Redo of healer really puts you on your toes one of the animes where yes you completely understand why he does what he does but at the same time you are thinking jeez dude chill"
So, is it worth watching this or is just an edgy grim-dark 'fantasy' like every other DnD edgefest to ever grimdark?
Because this is giving me Shinimaou no Basara vibes and I loathe that discount-DxD hentai.
Also is it just me or is there a trend of Isekai/fantasy anime having an edgy MC getting (petty) revenge and power, we got Shield Hero, Isekai Shihai No Skill Taker, Arifureta, Nidome no Yuusha, and Moonlit Fantasy, heck Moonlit Fantasy is one of several anime where an isekai character is banished, wanders the world penniless and bitter and meets magic creatures and becomes super OP and shit. It's so repetitive yet eaten up. Not that Isekai should be the happy-go-lucky shit like Isekai Cheat Magician or Isekai Smartphone but frankly it feels nauseating. Overly Cautious Hero, Re;Zero* or Goblin Slayer balanced levity and grimness which is why I can enjoy it, but other stuff makes me feel dirtied. Dungeon Seeker managed to not feel contrived either. I think I might be a bit annoyed also by the artstyle itself - it's generic moeshit with 0 sakuga and the colorful, flat color pallet makes it clash horribly with the ideas. Like Berserk had good animation that fit its dark fantasy setting, and had detail and complex shading.
*I'm not saying RE:Zero is good, it's not, but it has some good moments that I appreciated and it knew not to overdo the "It's time to suffer and die Subaru-kun!" concept to the point of insensitivity.
>>9358It's been going on since at least 2015 (that's omitting earlier edgy works). I mean I recently watched Arifureta and it wasn't outright awful (though it derailed quite a bit) but regardless, overall this 'fad' is getting annoying because they don't go for a dark storyline but an edgy one, otherwise you can't fit in the Moeshit, and generic harem gags and other shit aspects into it. At least Shield Hero tried to be somewhat consistent in its story telling.
BTW another shitty manga that is outright porky-shit is Meikyuu Black Company, a play on the Japanese term;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_company_(Japanese_term) Recently I watched Mushoku Tensei i.e. Jobless Reincarnation.
The writing is decent, the animation is pretty damn good for small isekai show. It doesn't get very far in the LN story, but it's been getting there. That said, I actually feel rather uncomfortable and even disgusted by some of the show's edgy or perverse content. Even more importantly, the character's behavior while quite realistic for a 30+ Otaku, can drag the show down. In terms of perverted characters, Rudy behaves like BNHA's Mineta as opposed to someone like Jiraiya or Issei Hyoudou, whose perversions are offset by their other character traits. Rudy does grow and change as a character but it takes a while to get there, and this can be depicted without being as vulgar as the show sometimes gets, I can understand by Bilibili stopped releasing it in China. The Father impregnating the maid and having that drama was a pretty daring move though, and honestly, excluding some of the sleaziness, this was an interesting story over-all. If you're able to bear a little fucked up shit, this is worth a watch.
The teleportation accident requiring escorting Eris home also reminds me a bit of Fairy Tail's Universe One spell.
Make an Isekai story that's actually just a big game of pretend a la pic related. Just a big adventure in a story, playing on children's creativity and self-insertion.
For example Warhammer 40k is what happened when a bunch of kids got some green army soldiers, painted them and added stickers, and came up with their own backstories for each of their armies as they fought. Kids being kids this became a game of imagination one-upmanship, each saying their side has ever escalating weapons or powers, each making theirs out to be the meanest, bloodiest, most terrible side and before you know it these pre-teens have invented most of the nonsense lore and grimdarkness. Seriously this is literally the original Warhammer boardgame.
Someone has a Star Wars a parody like this:
https://darthsanddroids.net/ original link for image:
https://mckitterick.tumblr.com/post/176230226160>>373>fixing the Isekai (sub?)genre from its current state of mediocrity and stagnation The following applies to most LN based anime not just Isekai but this is the most relevant thread.
The issue for LN anime adaptions is that they are just meant to be advertisement for the series. Hence why very few LN adaptions gets a second season. This also means that often such adaptations skip round a lot and come off as disjointed and lazy, an example being "Campione!" and it's episodes skipping huge amounts of arcs and character introductions.
Like film and TV adaptations of novels, anime adaptations of LNs should be ADAPTATIONS and not 1:1 the same. Cut content or non-canon content doesn’t matter if it’s still a good show, even if it's not closely following the LNs. An excellent example of this being pulled off is "Familiar of Zero". ZnT was so popular that it kept getting new seasons, but because they had no guarantees the animators kept making the current season as if it's their last one, only to be told later that they're getting another season. This, along with minor anime changes made kept adding up until the anime just does its own thing, but it still functions as a story and still uses most of the same characters in the LN and general story arcs. A series that does a similar thing is DxD, but BorN deviated too much from the story, trying to combine ideas from future volumes
(female balance breaker for Rias) and Ishibumi retconned it to being an alternate-universe and continued the original story in HERO, the anime did get transferred to Passione productions due to Ishi's dislike of the changes and the result being us waiting for several years for Season 5, but I digress.
TL;DR:
Stop having anime series be advertisements for Light Novel series as disjointed plot skipping randomshit. If you're going to be unable to follow the LN reliably because each Season made may be the last, then make an interpretation based on the material available.
>>9623>Redo of Healer It basically takes the most horrendously realistic part of Berserk and turns it into a hentai fetish. Like this is seriously hentai-tier stuff; mindbreak, rape, brainwashing, harem etc.
I don't do reddit most of he time because reddit anime-fags are moralfags about stuff like Goblin Slayer (while ironically being lax on Mushoku Tensei), but this thread really discusses the extent of how fucked up and shitty Redo of Healer is:
https://old.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/l5q90i/redo_of_healer_is_the_worst_thing_ive_ever_seen/ Archived link:
https://archive.is/1oJXd Apparently a better series that does the revenge thing (no rape involved) is Fukushuu O Koinegau Saikyou Yuusha Wa, Yami No Chikara De Senmetsu Musou Suru
>>10430> Mushoku TenseiUnironic reddit tier trash
It's literally everything wrong with iseakai but people swear up and down that it's actually good
>>10430>>10440>>9623>>9361 >>9820 On the topic of ReDo of Healer and edgy isekai/fantasy.
>>10692https://archive.ph/6nQ5j - Shield Hero's position on trivializing slavery (later) is annulled by the other positive aspects of the story, and th Shield Hero himself doesn't act like a monster in his revenge.
- Arifureta is just edgy but not a revenge fantasy
- Even Mushoku Tensei isn't total trash and makes some sense as a depiction of medieval social life, but does get excessive. Definitely not my cup of tea
- Goblin Slayer does not depict rape excessively and while you can argue on Episode 1 being excessive, the story over all is good and not edgy for the sake of it.
- Interspecies Reviewers is just low-quality soft-core hentai and an ignorant approach to prostitution.
- The Hidden Dungeon Only I Can Enter is not edgy at all, it's just a poorly-animated, effortless harem moe-fantasy, lacking any real content, just 'plot'.
These are all "controversial" Isekai of the past couple years… they got nothing on Redo of Healer and it's sickening fuckfest of excuses. It's precisely this kind of moe-shit abuse-porn that represents the animu garbage I and any self-respecting person reviles. And yet people make EXCUSES for it! It's just so tiresome and unoriginal. It's the same "Count of Montecristo" Story but done worse as usual.
In the things that nobody has talked about so far :
I will admit I actually enjoy in a weird way parallel paradise,but that's mostly because the MC is like "wait,those girls are human beings too ?" after some chapters,before its just fetish trash,and after its convoluted nonsense (which is why I enjoy it,I'm actually surprised by what's going on because it has no structural logic,wait until at least the plot twist to get what I mean)
Re:Monster also was the OG that nobody actually remember because it never got adapted,and it's quite bland.
Yondome is edgy only at the start,and lose all of it insanely quick,resulting in mostly a dark worldbuilding where nothing real bad happens,but at the same time the MC does the equivalent of "yeah lets give everyone guns lmao" (I hate this trope,especially since it's ALWAYS done by retards) by allowing a species of super humans to reproduce,also he's an actual man in a forever kid body,so the sexual innuendos are fucked but he brushes them off because he has no libido,it's a pretty normal dark isekai story with an edgy premise basically.
I do not reccommend any of those really,just wanted to list more.
>>10693nidome no yuusha (which is absurd enough that I can't even take it seriously,and even the MC thinks whats happening is too fucked up and it devolves into waifu-shit) is also rated pretty high on MAL,kinda insane.
It's also impressive because it really needed to exist in anime form to become known,most of those enjoyed a niche fanbase in LN format,but it wasn't until last year they really blew up,in both manga and anime form.
>>10695Yeah I talked a bit about Nidome in
>>10430 It's still a revenge fantasy but it doesn't have rape shit (and proceeds to moefiy it) so that's a plus.
Thanks for listing some more stuff too.
>>10898It's a common saying with multiple contexts:
- Mothers tell their children this to encourage them to understand that things do not come for free and require labour in a short and sweet phrase.
- Capitalist work ethic: You have to earn your basic necessities through blood, sweat and tears by working for people with power and authority, summarizes the Capitalist view
- a Communist (and Christian) phrase that essentially promotes good work ethic (keep in mind that work does not necessarily equal wage labour.
>>10701This is him
not being annoying?
>>11103I think this has been done before but it's definitely not common and definitely a good idea, if done right and excluding liberal takes or /pol/shit.
>>10918I've learned to tune out the stupid jokes and just listen to the main point.
>>11103It's not social commentary, but
The Expression Amrilato uses it as a setting for language learning. The MC is from Japan and she ends up in another dimension where everyone speaks Esperanto (called Juliamo in the game) and she has to learn it. There are minigames where they test your Esperanto knowledge.
>>13859Isekai is actually a great idea for an entire anime, but most authors are too lazy to do the legwork to make it good and so it has become a lazy dime-a-dozen single season shitshow 90% of the time today.
That said an Isekai training arc is a good idea, DBZ actually did something like that during the Z-Fighter training before Vegeta and Nappa arrive to Earth.
Any thoughts on Realist Hero? I have some mixed feelings. On one hand, I've really enjoyed this show. It brought something you typically don't see in isekai anime, that is to say the hero spends his whole time managing a kingdom, it made me feel like I was watching someone play a strategy game in a good sense. On the other hand, its reformist themes didn't really appeal to me, for obvious reasons. Being the king of a nation, he could have done a lot more to empower the peasantry and upend the medieval social order the world he isekaid to had in place. For example, he improved the conditions of the slaves, but they were still slaves. I don't think that the amount of work he's done to help the country's economy and his popularity among the people would instantly crumble if he just abolished slavery altogether, the only people who would complain would be slave traders and people that need cheap laborers, but he already upset the latter with his slave reform, and you'd think some slave traders aren't a big threat compared to what he's already weathered, but no. You can't end something as horrible as slavery because… you just can't it's a fantasy world muh social upheaval okay??? Also, just because you're good at being a merchant doesn't mean you'd be good at being a government official. Fuck off Roroa and fuck your retarded accent
>>13950Damn I meant to make a post about this and forgot. It's pretty good though lacking a budget to make it great. The Russian dub is the best though, since it changes the prime ministers name to Marx (from Max) and the translation uses more marxist terms of explanation of economic solutions. The intro music's beginning is also pretty neat, mp3 rel
I'll go more into this after I get some time to make a dedicated effortpost.
>>13957I cannot recall another anime in recent years like it, mind providing an example?
>>13967I don't recall that but then again It's literally one sentence of 12 episodes. Even if true, the anime itself essentially demonstrates a hastened transition from feudalism to capitalism.
>>14673>Your average otaku wants to see Isekai With Long Ass Title #702>has nothing to do with what is actually being made and everything to do with what is being watchedNo shit Sherlock, this is a hypothetical, not to mention that Otaku seek that shit because they're used to crappy product spam and stopped caring about good stories, because 'mediocre samey shlock is good enough"
>>14672The point isn't that you can't read other nations stuff, the point is that people enjoy the concept of isekai and Japan had a lot of good or fun Isekai that people enjoy and seek more of.
>LNs are poor literature Obviously, they're LIGHT Novels, a kiddie version of a Novella.
>boorishly translatedOfficial translations at least, most fan translations can be inaccurate, but are at least funny or strange enough to be entertaining, though admittedly I don't read LNs very much because of their annoying formatting.
>>14675>Like I already said, most people want to watch yet another MCU rehash every time a new one comes out.Well to be honest people are getting sick of MCU, and the increased spam of it in theaters to milk money is demonstrating people's discontent.
>>14676>this stops becoming a problem if you look for different things in the medium, especially if you bother learning Japanese True.
>>14674>they're light novels>LIGHTThis stops being an argument when they go on for decades.
>fan translationsHave poor structure, are riddled with spelling mistakes, and are, again, not all that great all things considered. At best you get what the author tried to convey, but none of the style (if any). Books are more than a simple summary of events that take place.
>>14676>bother learning the languageNot even japanese adults can understand their own language. But I'm sure you are the special intellectual exception that simultaneously knows Japanese and isn't bored by the derivative isekai trash that's indiscernible from all other genre-fiction. But I get the erp.
>>13851>>13850>>13396>Isekai MC got dumped by his girlfriend in his original world so the first thing he does is purchase a slave to do his bidding. This is pretty much exactly how isekai fans think. I'm still surprised there isn't a single fucking one I've read in recent time where the guy is like "fuck slavery, I don't give a shit if it's legal here" and burn the place down with his bullshit powers and suicidal NEET brain, you can even say one girl stays with him because he saved her from slavery if you REALLY need that as a plot point.
Isn't that the most obvious shit? It says a lot about (Japanese) society that every single MC thinks buying slaves is fine because it's legal. I think there might be exceptions but I can't remember them and they're an overwhelming minority.
>>15518Are you me ? I got spooked I read a post made by myself that I couldn't remember.
>>13850that's only fine if the MC can't actually do anything about it because he doesn't have bullshit level of power,and is actually buying the most rebellious of the bunch to give him insider info,and at least remove the fucking slave seals holy shit (and If you want to make your MC a pragmatic villain,make him remove the seal in the middle of the forest,and tell the scrawny slave that she can go die in the forest a free person,or choose to willingly submit to him and continue living,to build up a stockholm syndrome but without pretending it's not one)
Picrel was
mostly good, and there should be more isekai like such.
>>15518Someone should try to make isekai story that's allegory about the master-slave dialectic, or alternatively a similar sort of "bait and switch" one, in which the MC eventually gets overthrown by his "harem" and reincarnated back into the original world.>>16665Catherine deserved it.
I'm still on the fence on it,since it seems to hint that what he did to Albedo is going to blow up in his face at one point,but nothing happened so far (and I don't remember the novel adressing it either,so I'm probably just making up a scenario where it's not anticlimatic)
The majority of the woman in the story are psychotic/sadistic tbh,so I wouldn't be surprised if he has a weird view of them.
Where did Maruyama said the text above ?
>>16666Nice 6666 GETs
Yes she deserved it, but my point is that it is done gratuitously.
>>16668>The majority of the woman in the story are psychotic/sadistic And Ainz is the one that beats them, get fawned over by some of them and is generally the only relatively level-headed one that also plays 4D chess. It's a really lazy power fantasy that bored me to shit, literal Log Horizon levels of inanity.
>>16668>since it seems to hint that what he did to Albedo is going to blow up in his face at one pointI doubt it. That would involve the keikaku not being doori and that's not how Isekai works. He explains to her early on what he did to her and her response is basically "I don't care."
I guess she wants to kill the other supreme beings for leaving them, but considering how it's 4 seasons/14 volumes in and there hasn't been a hint of anyone else from the guild being there yet, it seems like another damp squib.
I don't know about anyone else but season 4 fucking sucks so far.
>>166721.Leave my copium alone
2.Very disappointed with how it's been going,It's farther than the manga and it decides to just adopt the slow as fuck approach of the novel,when you should just use visual as part of the storytelling instead of wasting everyone time.
>>13353Okay, not strictly anime but I did find a short piece of original fiction that, in a very much comedic manner, explores what might happen if John Brown was isekai'd when his sentence was carried out to an exaggerated parody version of your typical fantasy world with clueless Japanese protagonists, sleazy nobles, slave harems and all. It was honestly a really good read for something that was so short.
For those who do want to read it:
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/57505/his-soul-is-marching-on-to-another-world-or-the So someone on /siberia/ shat themselves over link rel being supposedly /pol/shit, mostly because the subject is
"Progressivism in isekai stories is retarded"https://boards.4channel.org/a/thread/242590407 https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/242590407 Not one to trust anyone on the internet at face value, especially on a /b/oard, I clicked the link and read the OP and it has no /pol/ shit. Instead it greatly points out the hypocritical and ignorant white-saviour story telling of "progressive" Isekai. The OP makes very concise and logical points, not ranting about le gays and or jooz, but specifically pointing out material inconsistencies and impossibilities of "progressive" isekai stories that try to retroactively make their medieval settings not actually medieval or have any conflicts beyond, le cartoonishly evil guyz and their mooks.
To repost and analyze the OP of that thread:
>MC for some reason thinks it's a great idea for different races, or even species, to start living together while completetly ignoring historical antagonisms and their incompatible lifestyles. Inb4 racism; A) unlike human 'races' these are LITERALLY different biological races that have markedly different cultures and material development. Human cultures have many differences, but many aspects repeat themselves across hundreds of cultures, many completely isolated from one another, because human development generally has similar material progress over time, only regional differences leading to details of culture being unique (such as music or art).
>Gods, magic and higher powers exist, but atheism is an acceptable 'religion'. This is to say that, it's not that atheism is bad, but it is illogical in the face of irrefutable evidence of divinity, not worshipping a god doesn't mean being atheistic, as atheism is the disbelief of gods. The only time Atheism functions in such a world is if the MC is challenging a false god that has bamboozled people.
>A big appeal of the story is becoming part of the upper-nobility of a feudalistic civilization, but once MCs achieves exactly that they jumpkick an industrial revolution, introduce democracy, and then erase the distinction between nobility and peasants. This will inevitably lead to a society that the Isekai tried to escape from in the first place. I.E. Isekai MCs escape modern capitalist society, yet their solution to monarchist problems is to reintroduce the capitalist society and end up in the very same alienating system they fled from.
>MC is born from nobles or special parents which gives him OP abilities, but the Author pretends that the MC is somehow "untalented" and a self-made man. >Author writes a chapter oozing with self-righteousness about how our MC dislikes slavery and prejudice while his entire setting is filled with nothing but carbon-copies of the same sterotypical races, archetypes and storylines we've seen a hundred times already (bonus points if the MC """""liberates"""""" a hot, underage slave girl and includes her into his harem). As discussed in
>>15518 and other post ITT.
>"The bad guys" are always ugly and "the good guys" always attractive, but physiognomy as a concept is dismissed as 'prejudiced'. I.E. racial caricatures exist, but only if it is expedient to the plot.
It's literally beyond Captain Planet levels of bad story and writing, because at least Captain Planet is self-aware and campy about itself.
>>16997Going by the shitty image that you'd expect from some right-winger trying to troll epic style and whining about different races being together, everything you posted is a literal projection of your own values onto the other poster.
>inb4 racismIt quite literally is. Do you also whine when shows aren't "historically accurate" when they cast black people or whatever?
>>16999>it had no /pol/ sentiments in itYou're a very intellectually honest, delusional, or at worst retarded.
>>16997>Inb4 racism; A) unlike human 'races' these are LITERALLY different biological races that have markedly different cultures and material development. Human cultures have many differences, but many aspects repeat themselves across hundreds of cultures, many completely isolated from one another, because human development generally has similar material progress over time, only regional differences leading to details of culture being unique (such as music or art). Fuck, I deleted B)
B) Unlike humans these different fantasy races have completely different biological, social and regional material development and many have had ancient feuds against other races (see Elves and Dwarves) so the MC haphazardly overcoming centuries of hatred and prejudice and moreover mashing together distinct cultures inorganically a la liberal "tolerance" is just idiotic and ignores the effort it takes to unite even differing members of the same race, let alone utterly separate ones. The USSR spent a decade of extreme social purging and iron-fisted organization to eliminate ethno-nationalist conflict and promote proletarian brotherhood, and even then despite 7 decades of this, this kind of ethno-nationalist conflict rose up again in the 90s to today. Now picture the same in a medieval time and among literally different species of race.
>>17000>It quite literally isFucking how you hack
>shows aren't "historically accurate" when they cast black people<If you think historical accuracy isn't important or material reality and so narrative consistency is important, then you're raseestYou're that retard from the Little Mermaid thread aren't you?
>shitty image <Oh no the image called liberals out as big mouthed idiots, that must be badFeeling called out lib? I see you still haven't managed to pull on that red-coated mask over your radlib face.
>expect from some right-winger trying to troll epic style No faggot, calling out libs for being retarded has been something leftypol has done since day one, idiot.
<whining about different races being together has literally nothing to do with the image, you're projecting. Also That's not the post you fucktard, See
>>17001 you undialectical ignoramus. Read fucking Marx.
>everything you posted is a literal projection of your own values onto the other poster No, you're just assmad and have a boogieman rent-free in your empty pot of a head.
>>16998>you didnt even read the thread And as
>>17000 demonstrates, you didn't read my post.
>>17005>Everyone I don't like is /v/, /pol/ and a liberal at the same time! I-I'm not seething U are, No u!Disingenuous, projected strawmen do not hide your liberalism.
>le reaction image on an imageboard! Oh no! Anyway…
>>16997>unlike human 'races' these are LITERALLY different biological races that have markedly different cultures and material development.Most of those differences in "biology" comes down to ear shape and beard length, in some cases "racial" talents like "elfs are good at magic, dwarfs are good at smithing". Anf of course erotic sensistivity in various places for female variants fo the species, which is a very important point for "medieval fantasy". Speaking of soecies, most of them can't even be called different species since they are close enough to produce offspring with functional reproductive organs. Their cultures usually differ even less, and in fact differ even less that actual human cultures could at that time period. Most of the are nothing but some sort of pastiche of human culture (like viking or spanish, in some rare coses something more exotic like aztec) just with monoethincity added on top. Material conditions are often quite similar too, so basically there is nothing that prevent multiple races as they are portrait in isekais and other "medieval" fantasy setting to coexist in the same society.
Not that authors usually think that deep anyway, more often it's just a bunch of historically ignorant stereotypes about our own societies sticked together on a pit and prayer. Hell, most of the settings have some sort of "academy" which is basically like a modern day school or university.
And even if races were different it wouldn't mean that they can't coexist, since common material condition will shape them to be more similar.
I more or less agree on the other points. Isekai is trash and it is often required for you to forget everything you know about history, material sciences and even formal logic to enjoy most of the stories.
>>17179>Most of those differences in "biology" comes down to ear shape and beard lengthYou're kidding right? Hobbits have hairy horny feet and are smaller than humans as adults and have a separate culture and origin. Dwarves are of Durin, born from the mountains and are short and hairy and stout. Elves are knife-eared lithe forest-spirits. Orcs are the descendants of corrupted elves and/or monsters created by dark sorcery. This concept of "they look similar so the racial differences don't matter is retarded… it's like saying humans and chimps aren't massively different enough so chimps are just a type of human. They have completely different origins and roles and their magic reflects that. This further shaped their cultures to be separate and only vague similarities exist.
>erotic sensistivity in various places for female variants fo the species Ecchi-meme stuff TBH.
>most of them can't even be called different species since they are close enough to produce offspring with functional reproductive organsExcept this can also be done with beastmen and lizardmen…. because "magic" not because they're all that closely related, otherwise they'd literally have to all be Homo Sapiens.
>Their cultures usually differ even less In shittier dime-a-dozen anime depictions, but generally their cultures seem to differ immensely in depictions that try.
>Most of the are nothing but some sort of pastiche of human cultureBecause of lazy authors making cheap fantasy and not paying attention
>Material conditions are often quite similar too As I explained, they're not supposed to be. Living underground mountains and excavating them for a living is completely different from being a forest dweller or a hill-burrowing farmer.
>often it's just a bunch of historically ignorant stereotypes about our own societies sticked together>most of the settings have some sort of "academy" which is basically like a modern day school or universityNot untrue, but that's from the standpoint of a reader. From the standpoint of the story itself, these are still separate races and cultures and the problem of allying or making peace between them at a snap of the fingers is laughable in the face of real human-human conflict. As a side note, in Naruto one of the main goals that progressively becomes more important is peace between people by ending the cycle of Hatred… but Naruto finds that you can't just end animosity of generations or personal revenge by fists and words alone.
>even if races were different it wouldn't mean that they can't coexist, since common material condition will shape them to be more similar My point is that the same can be said of humans… yet coexistence among peoples is still shaky despite millennia of progress and effort.
But thanks for the discussion and you're not incorrect in and of itself regarding most fantasy/isekai anime.
>>17220You are mainly confusing your own depiction of species (obviously influenced by tolkien which is not the only way to describe them of course) with how it is depicted in media we discuss (isekai and other medieval fantasy mangas), so i don't think i will have to respond with specifics here. Though we might as well remember some other authors like Andrzej Sapkowski and his depiction of elven society that culdn't properly coexists with humans and with good reasons why.
>Except this can also be done with beastmen and lizardmen…. because "magic" not because they're all that closely related, otherwise they'd literally have to all be Homo Sapiens.We are talking about biology, right? Biologically most elves, dwarves and beastment (unless going full furry, which is usually avoided in harem isekais except few weird cases) as theyr are portrait in media seems to be just subspiecies of homo sapience. Even without argument about reproduction, they are just not different enough to be called different species. Races probably is appropriate terms for that. In fact that magic argument goes both ways - maybe they are different based on magic not on biology? Though magic would probably be considered a material force there. Unless we are going for some sort of sentient magic force but then we are going into territory of settings which reality is based on idealism. not materialism which makes our discussion pintless.
>In shittier dime-a-dozen anime depictions, but generally their cultures seem to differ immensely in depictions that try. Sure, that's true. Well, we mainly discuss regular isekais here since you are responding to critique of regular tropes in regular isekai. Not some few rare exceptions, though tbh none come to mind where culture would be so radically different that it would prohibit coexistion. Do you have examples?
>Because of lazy authors making cheap fantasy and not paying attention No disagreement here, again, but still that just makes me right in ragards to most isekai fantasies.
>As I explained, they're not supposed to be. Living underground mountains and excavating them for a living is completely different from being a forest dweller or a hill-burrowing farmer. True, but human cultures differed to same degree, don't they? Difference between a nomad and a farmer. Very big, but will go away withing ferw generations of living withing same material conditions. Though the question of course if you could make it last that long.
>From the standpoint of the story itself, these are still separate races and cultures and the problem of allying or making peace between them at a snap of the fingers is laughable in the face of real human-human conflict.The whole point was in the argument that standpoint of the story where there is no such conflict (as many authors portrait it) there should be from a perspective of our knowledge. It is exactly fromthe point of view of the author and the story that no such conflict exists that you guys found problematic, no?
>My point is that the same can be said of humans… yet coexistence among peoples is still shaky despite millennia of progress and effort. Sure, but we know why, right? not because of some biological differences or some cultural gaps that just can't be breached but because of the class system in our society.
>But thanks for the discussion and you're not incorrect in and of itself regarding most fantasy/isekai anime.Thanks to you too. It's nice to have a civil discussion once in a while
>>17223I don't think the problem is uniqueness as much as it is lazyness. Authors mostly don't understand how societies operate especially medieval ones, so what comes out in the end results in nothing more than copy of the modern society plastered over overused medieval themes with weapons, armors, clothing, utilities and architecture being jumbled together from different time periods without sense or purpose. Let's not even talk about societal structure, since more often than not is is a copy of a modern society, almost always with high level commodification, with police and prisons and other stuff like that.
I would like to see a setting that would be thought out and had consistent laws about how it works even if it wasn't particulary original. And of course with decent character development.
>>17399>absurdist writing = bad even if originalDogshit take, besides most original works anime and not come from real life occurrences anyways as a source of inspiration
Straight up plagiarizing the works of someone else is both lazy and awful to put up with for the audience and the author
>>17400>even if originalLol, they aren't, that's the whole point. Just doing the opposite is not original.
You are one stupid motherfucker ain't you?
>>17411expanding on this, i think a setting where most people are nomads,physical combat is the focus and magic is more ritualistic like FMA instead of the rpg like most Isekai mostly have, and none of that gaming hud shit.
Hell using this i even thought of a cool setting and how the history would go.
>>17424half of the story is about the other world,it's also the basis for the comedy,the manga doesn't work without the other world plot (which is "surprinsigly" uncommon in "proper" isekai stories)
Hell,a ton of isekais are about the guy wanting to go back to the real world,even if that's been put on the wayside in modern times to focus purely on escapism.
Is Parallel Paradise not an isekai because the protagonist flip-flop between the two worlds ?
>>17875like isekai ojisan but from the start of his life then ?
he would probably be happier and have more friends than most incel anyway,if you're just looking for a meta revenge fantasy.
>>373how about coming up with an original premise
instead of recycling one so much it becomes a genre
>>18785All this isekai genre is just Narnia copycats. And Narnia is a copycat of Alice in Wonderland.
Nothing original ever came after Alice in Wonderland.
>>373Make Doom Slayer the protagonist. There we go, Doomsekai.
>>19287Most anime is made for teens, it's just that it's more apparent in trashier shows.
Have I mentioned that I hate target demographics? There we go, I hate target demographics. I hate when the authors are trying to accomodate for a specific age group, even my own. What is my target demographic anyway? I don't even fucken know what is supposed to be targeted at my age group. The teens watch all the adult shows anyway unless they are boring. But at that point I wouldn't watch them either.
Capitalists are out-of-touch, they're not even human.
Rant incoming
>>10475>>10259 >BorN deviated too much from the story, trying to combine ideas from future volumes>The Konosuba Movie adapted the LN story arc better than the original LNs by cutting out unnecessary parts, adding in details about the school for Megumin and Yunyun's backgrounds, and adding in a final fight for Sylvia, the latter giving her a much more heartfelt end-speech and creative power boost for it. This sort of how I felt about Season 3 of DxD. Honestly I get that the 3rd Season is way off canon, but the reddit fan reaction is pure cancer, okay, we get it, it's not following the LN, shut the fuck up already. There's a lot of stuff that the 3rd Season misses or lacks but most of it is utterly unnecessary, the only thing that mattered in the long run was the Loki fight and the various figures or plot points that come up in it like the Chichigami, as every other change or cut part was fucking filler or not necessary. The Sona vs Rias fight would be nice to see, but again the limitations of a single season of an anime and the fact that nobody knows if a next season is coming or not is a big deal; an animation studio isn't just artists and animators, it's a business and they can't just throw away money, especially a smaller animation group under a large corporation like Funimation in the cut-throat Japanese economy.
TNK did the fight against Diodora and Shalba pretty damn well, and frankly I like the way the Juggernaut Berserk was resolved better, Episode 0 of HERO only made it more obvious how inane and tonally inconsistent the LN resolution comes off as.
Seriously Issei is dying as his insane state is supposedly making him to dangerous to approach, taking away his lifespan, and Asia is thought to be dead, but the characters are just vaguely pensive, next thing Asia is safe and everyone is cheerful like a kiddie cartoon for a much younger audience. THEN we get Irina popping up with all smiles and cheer and using the Breast Song to calm Issei down, even though they have NO idea if it'll work to start with. The BorN version maintains the dark tone even if it provides fanservice and even has a chilling scene in the Raynare mind-fuckery. The fight scene by Passione is comparably good, but the character interactions are just so bland by comparison in that retcon episode. I still enjoy HERO's plot, but I can't help but skip a lot of Rias scenes because they ruined her vibeAnother complaint by DxD "fans" is that TNK supposedly made it look like Rias planned Issei's death. For one thing, that isn't the case, the anime follows the LN pretty closely, for another thing, the small, subtle changes of the anime that MIGHT imply this only makes it BETTER - Rias is a DEVIL, not a human, so her being devious is on point and the moral-fagging about it is retarded given that Issei is himself a bit fucked up, a good guy at heart, but also one that is a bit of a creep at the beginning, since we don't read a lot of good things about him at the start, it's why him becoming a devil also works so well. Her character being too effeminate and cutesy really ruined her in HERO as well, as her TNK visage, despite being different to the LN illustration actually served to make her look more mature and mysteriously alluring compared to the same-face moe that Passione has.
TL;DR: Anime and LNs are separate mediums and ought to be judged by their own merits first, and not just by source material arguments.
>>19887>Rias is a DEVIL, not a human, so her being devious is on point and the moral-fagging about it is retardedThe problem is that way the demons (not devils, there's only one Devil) and angels are depicted is kind of ambiguous and subversive, you can't blame moralfags for thinking like this because the demons aren't demonic enough and the angels are not angelic enough. Also, does this cosmology imply that Christianity is correct? Or perhaps that Islam is correct? Judaism? Pagan religions that have beings similar to devils and angels but called differently?
>Anime and LNs are separate mediums and ought to be judged by their own merits first, and not just by source material argumentsHow about… making an original anime? If anything, the anime scriptwriters don't have to write most of the plot at all. An anime becomes sort of a by-product, a rudiment, an alternative for people who can't read. Of course people are gonna be critical. Anime shows can't stand on their own most of the time, they just adapt whatever was already written. Just an audio-visual extra to the novel's script.
>>19889 (cont.)
>Also, does this cosmology imply that Christianity is correct? Or perhaps that Islam is correct? Judaism? Pagan religions that have beings similar to devils and angels but called differently?Wait, I remember there being Satan in the anime. We've narrowed it down to Abrahamic religions and its various sects. But what if… what if God is a false god and Satan is actually the true god that came to rescue us from the tyranny of the fake god Yahweh?
DxD's cosmology is more of an aesthetic choise that obviously doesn't give a shit about those small details. It's its own cosmology that only has a loose connection to Abrahamic religions because the Japs jerk off to Christian symbolism ever since NGE came out. An obvious cargo cult.
>>19889>there's only one Devil Not in DxD, demon and devil are different meanings.
>ambiguous and subversive The summit of the 3 Great factions has Archangel Michael explain that some actions are done because without God the system is fragile and therefore for them to survive a status quo was enforced, but he admits that Heaven should have found another way. Fallen Angels are specifically those that fell because they fell to a sin of some kind, such as Azazel falling for lust and so on. Devils are by nature devious, and although only the original Lucifer and Devil-spawn are "evil" in the literal sense, they're still beings of sin by their nature, individuals may simply choose to be better. It is subversive in a sense, but it's also an action ecchi, so it's not meant to be that deep or philosophical, even if the actual plot can be pretty good.
>does this cosmology imply that Christianity is correct? The DxD devils are collective of all 3 Abrahamic religions, and plays fast and loose with the cosmology of those religions, for the sake of a story, the same applying to pagan gods.
>How about… making an original anime? 1) That's harder than it appears, RWBY proves the problems of lacking a written/illustrated source material in creating an animated series with a long plot.
2) My post is specifically referring to anime adaptations of written media, so original works are by default not a factor here.
>the anime scriptwriters don't have to write most of the plot at all That's the problem, adaptation requires you to ADAPT the source material, because film/animation is a very different medium to literature, much more visual and constrained by time limits.
>anime becomes sort of a by-product, a rudiment, an alternative for people who can't read. Which is why I argue that anime should have more lee-way in adaptation so that it can provide an interpretation with its own merits rather than just a lazy alternative.
>Anime shows can't stand on their own most of the time Often true for non-mainstream LN adapatations, Campione proves that and frankly in spite of people liking it, Labyrinth of Magi does too. That's why I like the TNK DxD interpretation, it is based on a source material, but holds up on its own merits even if it were an independent, unsourced material.
>>19891 >I remember there being Satan in the animeBasically Lucifer was the first devil and Lilith his wife, and from her flesh came the first demons, with various special abilities. Lucifer and the 4 main Maou (Devil Kings) along with many of the Demon Lords (often based on various devils and demons in demonological grimoires of the past) were killed in a final clash with God (although there is speculation that God is not really dead, but there's no proof of it). Thus the NEW Satans arose, not through hereditary succession, but through their merits, having brought a new age to the Devil world after the Civil War, the result being a transition from a Feudal Monarchy, to a more Capitalist system in hell's society.
>DxD's cosmology is more of an aesthetic Sort of, I will give Ichibumi this, he references a lot of VERY obscure demonological lore from all 3 Abrahamic religions, (the Gremory family for example is rather unknown, and the references about Camels being their symbolic animal is yet another a reference to a rather obscure piece of demonology).
>the Japs jerk off to Christian symbolism ever since NGE came out <implying it hadn't begun since the Japanese opened up to the Americans in the Meiji restorationLOL
>>19892>RWBY proves the problems of lacking a written/illustrated source material in creating an animated series with a long plotI mean, not like RWBY doesn't have the problems of a typical shonen shtick anyway.
>although there is speculation that God is not really deadWait, God is immortal and Nietzsche didn't mean the death of God literally, WTF? Sounds like Peterson trying to reinterpret Nietzsche in the lines of "God is dead because the antichrists killed him."
>the result being a transition from a Feudal Monarchy, to a more Capitalist system in hell's societyDidn't know the demon world mirrors the Earth's dialectical materalism.
>>20080It's a semi-joke about truck-kun because of the video featuring Mimi-Sentry getting Truck-kun'd by the TF2 tank.
Also there are crossover fics featuring the TF2 mercs in another verse's world. There's some pretty crazy ones.
>>20079 >>20065 >>20064 It comes off as way too try-hard edgy IMO, like the typical "Lets pretend this FANTASY runs by our reality!" shite that gets boring very quickly.
>>20078>RWBY doesn't have the problems of a typical shonen shtick anyway.It does, but the point is that the lack of a written source material makes a lot of the post V3 writing poor, even if I can still mostly enjoy it.
>God is immortal and Nietzsche didn't mean the death of God literally I'm not sure if you're just joking, but I meant within the actual DxD story God is supposed to be dead, but there's some strange vagueness to it.
>the demon world mirrors the Earth's dialectical materalism I doubt it's intentional, but yes, it's something I noticed when I first read the LNs.
>>20090>RWBY doesn't have the problems of a typical shonen shtick anywayI said "
Not like it doesn't." Which means that it does. Negation of a negation of a truth statement equals the truth statement. Basic binary logic.
>It's a semi-joke about truck-kun because of the video featuring Mimi-Sentry getting Truck-kun'd by the TF2 tankWTF, sentries aren't even sentient beings. Although there are jokes about them having an AI. But I didn't expect it to go that far. With a mini-sentry of all things.
>>20096>I said "Not like it doesn't." Yes I noticed, I just didn't green the entire post. If you notice my response is specifically about it having these issues, but that it has further problems beyond typical shonen issues.
>sentries aren't even sentient beings That's not very cash money of you to say about those girls
>I didn't expect it to go that far. What 6 years of no major updates does to a community.
>>20097>HOW Essentially God was weakened by sealing away the apocalypse bringer, Trihexa, which was as powerful as himself, leaving him vulnerable enough to die
But of course considering the omnipotent/omniscient being that he is, and other hints in the story, lends itself to the fan theory that he isn't really dead.
>>20100>How can there even be a war between Heaven and Hell if God is almightyEssentially there's some complicated lore I can't remember about him unable to directly kill the devils and having to use agents such as his angels to do so.
>at this point it's an unstoppable force trying to move an unmovable object. Ergo both cancelling each other out., literally
>>20123>That's not very cash money of you to say about those girlsHave you just
ASSUMED THEIR GENDER?>Essentially there's some complicated lore I can't remember about him unable to directly kill the devils and having to use agents such as his angels to do soThis is so dumb. Christianity is stoopid.
>>20130>Have you just ASSUMED THEIR GENDER?YES AND I'M NOT SORRY>This is so dumb It's not Christianity and more DxD trying to integrate a variety of different religions, legends and myths; Abrahamic or not.
>>20137 Follow the thread of replies m8.
>>20141>YES AND I'M NOT SORRYThey're literally pieces of metal. They don't even have a female voice like Karen. What gender does to the MF's brain. SMH.
>It's not Christianity and more DxD trying to integrate a variety of different religions, legends and myths; Abrahamic or not.Abrahamic religions in general are retarded.
>I am almighty, omnipotent and omniscent>Oops, sorry, I can't do this>Oops, sorry, can't do this either>HOW DARE YOU LIE TO ME even though I'm omnipotent>HOW DARE YOU COMMIT SIN even though I could have prevented itAbsolute brain rot. No wonder why Gnostics think Jehovah is a fucking pseud.
>>20137>Why the fuck are people discussing DxD in an isekai thread?If only I knew myself.
>>20147 It can sort of be a mix of both. The original devils, ones directly created by God or Lucifer, are true devils with blackened hearts and no kindness. But later generations have 'humanized' and some become genuinely emotional and caring, only being manipulative and devilish because it is cultural, after all DxD's devil world is actively seen as one going from a feudal society into a capitalist one (one can only wonder if it will proceed into a socialist one and how that would look).
>>20148 Definitely an interesting angle.
>>20723 I'm assuming pic rel. I haven't seen any anime like that but a quick search has found me… nothing. It's possible there are some obscure light novel isekai stories with that, but none that I know of or are well known enough to be found easily.
>>16742Link for the interested and pdf attached
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8912547/1/The-Red-Revolution Also makes me want to write a oneshot of Louise summoning Adam Taurus from RWBY (Vol 1-3 version), just for kicks.
Recently watched The Eminence in Shadow because I saw a clip on youtube and although it seemed like a typical current isekai shonen I was intrigued by a comment, "Excellent visuals aside. If you keep in mind that he's got no idea what's happening and just says stuff to make himself look cool, this show is absolutely hilarious."
Thus I decided to binge the 20 episodes it has so far and while it's been interesting, I've frankly been a bit disappointed in the main character, whose dream is to be an NPC background character, but simultaneously is an insane chunni that, at 18, wishes to be a secret edgy superhero.
The Main character is stupidly OP like in Overlord but has substance and reasons for the main character not to just one shot everything and everyone. The episodes involving The Sanctuary in the middle of Season 1 are pretty fucking horrifying and it was honestly trippy as hell; the story in general is atypical.
The problems for me particularly are issues with the main character himself, which grew over time (anime only):
- He's too overpowered to the point where there are no stakes in the fight; he makes shit up for magic or the story on the fly and it just happens even if it makes sense as solution (magic threads, magic density etc.)
- He's sociopathic in his behavior, every emotion, every bit of dialogue, every action on display is him playing a role and if he doesn't need to, he pretends minimally to keep up a façade. It's so clinical that his character becomes frightening, like a robot attempting to go through the motions of being human, based on an amalgamation of various fictional character tropes.
- Sociopathic behavior aside, reactions are also a problem; He reacts to almost nothing with surprise or any other genuine emotion and while I understand it's part of his delusional character it goes over board, Even after his made up Cult of Diablos turns out to be real, he seems to think it's all a roleplay
- It's not just a videogame, so his attitude to his new world is confusingly distant. Nothing seems to affect him; blood, dismemberment, screams of the dying, horrific experiments and monsters are completely unsurprising to him, nor do they evoke disgust or anything at all. Even fictional and televised depictions of such evoke some emotion from people, and only a person who's seen death a lot will not react to these things. He doesn't genuinely react, register or care about anyone, he pretends minimally and yet has no interest or like for anyone; nobody's plight is interesting, no atrocity concerning. Hell he outright states that he wouldn't care if somewhere across the world a million people were to die.
All in all, it's certainly… unique as an isekai, but frankly it gets tiresome after a while. In my opinion the manga and WN does his character better, since he actually has reactions, even if he's still a crazy fuck, it's less dissonant and it carries across his delusional self better, rather than have him on paper think the Cult isn't real but react way too precisely.
>>20988wait until he creates a money market,and then crashes it for the lulz,while beating up his own "friends" for no actual reason and they make shit up to excuse his behavior.
It's basically the moment I couldn't give a shit anymore,I didn't even understand what was supposed to be fun about it,even from a sociopathic angle
While I agree that a lot of current anime is crappy, especially Isekai, this need for a weird and wacky forgettable shows to critique modern society as well is asinine.
>Oh yes, I really need more generic critiques of society by a fiction author. Should it be some really convoluted allegory to timidly express that "capitalism bad overworks people"? No, no, forget that, we can get even more revolutionary! The authors should include a subplot with a subtle implication that "bad things happen because profits". I can't wait to have those in anime! Why can't the dumb Japanese learn from my favorite Netflix shows? Where would I be without those pieces of insight thoroughly diluted, dilated, and appropriated in my escapist media?
The result would be like most "Marxist" TV shows in the USA; Boring ass schlock spitting half-baked 'leftist' talking points that every other radlib spits out. It's neither interesting, nor inspiring to anyone that has read a fucking book in their life. This is literally the same shit as 150$ Che-Guevara shirts sold by various corporate clothing stores - discount 'rebel' shit dangled by porky because it's not actually coherent of well-formed enough to genuinely harm corporate interest and profits, just enough to get shit stirred up and muddy the waters.
You want to take two things, anime and critique, and mash them into something terrible. Do we really need a 12 chapter seasonal anime to tell you that class oppression of society exists or some other bullshit? Because that's the highest level of progressive criticism that you are going to be able to fit in (if you even get there, which would be a miracle considering most manga authors are borderline illiterate).
Let anime be anime, that is, pretty big-eyed girls, fanservice, power fantasies, silly antics and clear plot direction. If you want a real critique of society that is actually worth the paper it is written on, go read Marx, or Lenin, Parenti or Losurdo, or literally any non-fiction author from the last 200 years. Don't come to a Japanese cartoon show looking for praxis or something.
>inb4 Akira, GitS, NGE and Ghibli
Those are specific and complex works that are a in a different galaxy from seasonal simple anime for entertainment that is made, being short series, OVAs or films rather than a deliberate kids cartoon. Kids content shouldn't be brainless either, but expecting a heavy-handed socio-political drama in something that's just trying to be light hearted and fun is just silly.
>>21047Yeah, the first season sets up a lot of interesting possibilities. What happens if the minions develop their own personalities? What if he encounters other player characters as op as he is? Are any of his other party members there and how are they going to react to his actions?
And then it goes on to answer none of them in the most boring way possible.
>>21065Tanya is really interesting to me because of how popular and reactionary it seemingly is. it was very successful and seemingly nobody pushed back, everyone either didn’t speak about it or praised it to high heavens, even though the entire plot is just ww1 combined with ww2, germany winning combined with the weird glorification of this individualistic fascism, where mc is a great man who seeks personal profit while at the same time the plot seemingly glorifies the mc and violence trough fash lense. which is interesting because usually fascism depicts the idol as an idealised warrior patriot but in case of mc they are a selfish asshole.
There is something fash about overlord and other “evil” mc manga too since they often have the “chosen”/“special” mc commit unspeakable acts of violence against other while being glorified and depicted as badass and cool.
>>21066Yeah Tanya was a wild ride, the Tanya thread has more on it
>>795 It was very successful and uncriticized because at the time the main anime boards were 4/a/ and 8/a/ and both run by /pol/ who loved the fascist elements. /leftyweebpol/ was almost always dead back on 8chan and reddit is… well reddit. GETchan pretended it didn't exist except when they fapped to the loli, with rape fantasies.
>There is something fash about overlord and other “evil” mc manga too since they often have the “chosen”/“special” mc commit unspeakable acts of violence against other while being glorified and depicted as badass and cool. Not even fascist, there isn't really an ideology to it, it's just psychopathic.
>>21067>how exactly is it parodying/satirising the genre if it does exactly what other shitty isekai do? You have to understand that at the time of release Konosuba was satirizing the common isekai of its time and the past. It was pretty funny and silly with subversion of typical fantasy isekai tropes like the noble crusader and powerful mage with some secret demon backstory, and the MC being not some ordinary kid, but an utter NEET that died pathetically. Nowadays such "ironic" isekai are everywhere, because they all ape off of Konosuba's formula and so what was once a relatively unique criticism of isekai and a fun silly romp, has become commonplace.
>konosuba is just isekai marvel. Konosuba is like Marvel's Iron Man. It was good, and relatively groundbreaking in its concept and set up, but this quickly became exploited into the MCU and the ideas got milked to death. Obviously someone that has seen all the single season isekai garbage of the past decade is going to see Konosuba and think it's not very much different, because Konosuba was basically THE isekai all the other hack writers imitated.
>>21064I'd even be fine with him being unemotional and just out and out evil if it was at least interesting. All the work has been done for him, either by his guildmates or by his subordinates, which were also created by his guildmates. The fact that by default his magic is just magnitudes of power stronger than most magic in this setting just further kills it.
At first it seemed like there was at least the possibility of an interesting plot. I thought everyone was so weak because he was in the RPG beginner area. Instead the world just sucks, so what's the point in conquering it? The series was over before it even began. It's like sitting through a funeral. The thing's already dead, you're now just going through the process of putting it in the fucking ground.
>>21065>Log HorizonI think it's to LH's credit that the setting is in motion around the characters, and to me it's really interesting that they start inventing new stuff that wasn't in the game before. Like, players using real world knowledge and combining it with bullshit fantasy magic to make steam engines and shit in a quasi-feudal setting is really cool.
I last saw the second season I think years ago though, so I don't know where the story goes from there. Still, in terms of isekai bullshit at least the story presents problems that the main character can't just brush aside because of how arbitrarily op they are.
>>21861I meant in size. For /siberia/ right now I get
> 772.94 kB / 413.42 kB transferredout of which the banner was
> 18.20 kB / 18.89 kB transferredbut for the gif it is
> 296.56 kB / 297.48 kB transferredso if it was used, /siberia/ would balloon up to
< 1051.30 kB / 692.01 kB transferred >>218641) Your OP didn't get replies for literally a day
2) Your OP is low-effort for an OP and is not broad enough of a subject to garner a thread even 100 posts long, it's just going to sit at Page 17 after sinking there (as it did) and just get used for spam-bait
3) It's relevant to this thread, and got more responses when it was moved to this thread than it did as it's own OP.
>>21877 If there was sufficient interest in the subject an overall Hamefura thread might work, but this isn't 4/a/ so, tons of specific threads don't really work here.
>>219171) Translation makes it sound more awkward
2) It's partially a meme that authors unironically emulate for their "ironic" isekais
>>21908 True, Overlord isn't a high bar but my point was its a similar story but with less cringe by comparison, even if its no masterpiece.
>>21999>999Checked for based terato-isekai.
On that note the Monster Hunter movie by Anderston would technically count as an Isekai even if there's not monstrous monstergirls. A lot of Monster Hunter fans got assmad about it, but I thought it was a pretty good film for what it was supposed to be. Obviously its not close to the plot of the games, but it works for the story.
https://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3642158/monster-hunter-two-new-international-trailers-give-us-first-look-ron-perlman-palico/ >>22005Imagine if they could get out but kept their in-game bodies… some freaky shit tbh. I suspect they'll pull a .hack however, or something similar to that.
>>22006 It's suffering o'clock again!
>>22840I am guessing you are talking about Tales of Wedding Rings. Havent seen it, but just reading the plot synopsis:
>To become powerful enough to save the world, he must marry four other princesses and gain their rings to get power over earth, fire, wind, and water. I wonder if there are fans of this show trying to argue that this definitely isnt just a generic coomer fantasy because there is a *plot* reason for having a harem of women slobbing on his knob.
>>22849That's not really it. It's more of a complaining about cliche relationship portrayal in japanese anime and manga. Where they behave like some sexually repressed 14 yo from showa era. And you end up with some schizo plot where character forms a harem around him, but the most thing that can happen is a kiss somewhere near the end of the 999 volume.
No need to make a straight up hentai, just don't make it so fucking prude and cliche.
>>22903>OP ubermenscLike Tenchi.
> or stupid doormatsLike Tenchi.
>where you already know how they're going to react to everything.Oh yeah, unlike Tenchi who is completely unpredictable.
Mate, you can like Tenchi all you want, but you can't pretend it's in any way different from other harems, since most of them copy tenchi anyway. At best you can say it has higher production value.
Isekai should be more about the setting, and how people like you and me would fare in it, than being a power trip for some NEET.
You've got some schmuck from modern day Earth flung into a fantasy world, do something with that! Have them be our surrogate in interacting with a strange, alien world that operates in ways that are totally different from what we'd expect.
And for some reason, the protagonist being from another world NEVER impacts the plot. They never try to get home, they don't even miss it, they show no signs of stress or trauma at being put in the most unfamiliar of situations, they never talk about their parents or friends… like, these are all young guys, not hardened veterans or something, they should be barely holding it together at first.
And the people from the fantasy world should actually be, yknow, shocked that some dude actually came from another world. It would be like if an alien just showed up on Earth.
>>22935 It right here
>>16741 CTRL+F is your friend.
I don't watch anime. I don't read manga. I don't care for isekai. But an idea popped into my head a while back regarding the genre, and I thought I'd share it.
We open with a modern-day tribesman in Tanzania. He's a hunter who brings meat for his family, in a town that otherwise lives off of subsistence farming. He's not "backwards" in any sense of the word - he's met tourists, his town uses some modern tools for daily living, and so on. But he's never been completely exposed to the industrial world. He hasn't watched TV, or worked an office job. He's maybe heard the word "Japan" exactly once in his entire life. And that's okay - he's happy with the life he and his family are living.
Well, one day in the savanna, he's making his way back home after a failed hunt when he's struck by the jeep of some poachers. He wakes up in a fantasy world, filled with magic and epic quests and anime girls…and he doesn't understand any of it. Not only is there a language barrier that the fantasy world's miraculous inclusion of Japanese or English fails to address, but he's not a pencil pusher who'd kill for an escapist fantasy like this. He's just some guy, and he has zero context for the tropes being thrown at him.
Monster slaying? He'd rather avoid large animals and only kill small prey with persistence hunting. Magic powers? He considers it taboo, or something he'd rather ask his town's religious leaders about. Girls fawning over him? He doesn't understand their advances, having grown up with different customs regarding relationships and marriage. He might recognize a slave market if the setting has one, and take action against it, but otherwise he's completely baffled by the world around him and just wants to go home to his family.
This idea has always made me chuckle because it's a great way to deconstruct the power fantasy elements of isekai. The protagonist isn't a contrarian or antagonistic to the world around him, mind you, he's just really, really confused and would rather go home than indulge in a story that's made for some weeaboo in Tokyo or New York.
The only reason I'd be hesitant to ever see a story like this done is because, realistically speaking, a studio that makes isekai would probably write the protagonist as a racist caricature, when the idea is that he's just an everyman meant to subvert the genre.
>>23822Maybe, but even the movie managed to keep their characters consistent.
>>23821 Maybe because ATLA's artstyle is lifted from anime animation styles of the mid-late 2000s?
Saw some retarded takes recently and I finally had some time to address it.
>Everything looks like an isekai because it’s filled with the same tropes. Weebs don’t like when you point this out.This is just a useless and never-ending semantics debate.
For one thing, "Native isekai" is a weeb joke on isekai being so abundant compared to regular fantasy that fantasy is called native isekai jokingly.
Secondly; Yes, there are commonly widespread tropes between Isekai and regular fantasy… mostly because most Isekai take place IN fantasy settings, specifically LitRPG fantasy, only animated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LitRPG?useskin=vectorThis encompasses the characteristics & eccentrics that are actually associated with "native Isekai" minus the ones that are too broad and just a common trope among either fantasy or Japanese media. Unfortunately the term is largely forgotten by modern weebs, which is why we get MyAnimeList takes like the following
>Native isekai: Series that share many tropes with the standard isekai anime, but they don't have the "travel to another world" element. This mostly means that they have a couple of the following features: OP main characters, medieval fantasy worlds, Tolkien-esque fantasy creatures (elves, dwarves, etc.), RPG mechanics (levels, skills, classes, UI screens, etc.), adventurer classes, dungeon exploration, harem, quests to defeat the demon king, reincarnation, etc. https://myanimelist.net/stacks/40371 It's not wrong so to speak, but really it misses the fact that, Isekai or not, most Japanese fantasy today sucks balls because it always feels like a Dragon Quest ripoff with the whole muh demon king and muh RPG mechanics shit always being a part of the plot. I won't even go into KnowYourMeme and its lopsided page on "Native Isekai"
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/native-isekai>>24704On the subject of LitRPG and the general mass-production of fantasy stories (both slop and good stuff) I think recently Korean Manhwa and Chinese Manhua are starting to gain traction in foreign markets as well since their tropes have some slight variety that can attract some weebs and other consumers at the moment, it's like a new drug for fans of the genre. Stuff like Reincarnation of the Suicidal Battle God or Skeleton Soldier Failed To Defend The Dungeon have gimmicks
TL;DR: The current dominating fantasy genres are Japan's Isekai/LitRPG, Korea's Regression fics and China's Martial Arts Cultivation
Reverend Insanity is like all 3 of these things simultaneously
https://www.webnovel.com/book/reverend-insanity_7996858406002505 Edit: of course Gigguk did a video on it. It's his typical crap, but lists some interesting manhwa of the Regression genre:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9zfJPu2BbE >>24704Yeah, "native isekai" is a synonym of "LitRPG." But you've gotta admit that nobody knows wtf LitRPG is, give people some slack and actually introduce them to this genre.
But thanks for introducing me to this term. Have any recs for Western LitRPGs?
>Isekai was added to the Oxford Dictionary<alongside tonkusatsu https://archive.is/KeLvkLMAO. English lacks singular words for those terms but still, it's funny to see weeb terms normalized.
>>24729I'm overworked at the moment so I'll give you the reccs a bit later when I have a spare moment for more than a cursory post. Pic rel is some basics. There's Deck Builders, Base Builders, Apocalypse LitRPG, Monster Evolution and other subgenres of LitRPG.
>>24721 >Isn't the defining element of isekai just taking the "crossing the threshold" part of the Hero's Journey to an extreme? Sort of, but that makes Isekai start to lose meaning.
>picHow the fuck is ATLA Lore Flexible? They don't travel to any other world unless you're counting the meditations to the Spirit World, which are more like communicating with deities than actually being in-another-world.
Unique IPs: 150