No.470
He looks like a cool guy to talk to
No.471
>machines are bad except when they’re used for imperialist warmongering
Fuck this guy
No.472
he was Marxist
http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/miyazaki/101.html
> He was strongly influenced by Marxism. You have to understand that in Japan, the word "communism" isn't as demonized as in the US. Marxism as a theory to analyze society and history has been taught in universities. The Socialist Party had been the second largest party in Japan for a long time, and the Communist Party still holds seats in the Parliament. During the war, any political or labor movement was banned, and the communists were almost the only ones who vocally opposed the war. After the war, labor unions were allowed to be formed, and many of them were led by communists or communist sympathizers. Many were idealistic young people who believed in the future of "truly democratic Japan." Miyazaki was one of those young people, as was Takahata.
> Miyazaki was the chairman of the animator's union at Toei Doga. The early works in which Miyazaki was involved, such as Horus or Conan, show his political beliefs somewhat. He once said he wasn't even sure about making Nausicaä a princess, since that "makes her an elite class." Pom Poko was basically the story of how the liberal movements in post-war Japan failed, according to Miyazaki.
> Around the end of the 1980s and the beginning of the 1990s, Miyazaki came to the conclusion that Marxism (and Historical Materialism) is wrong, and he totally forsook it. He said that his realization had more to do with writing Nausicaä than the collapse of the communist bloc.well, not anymore, looks like he's demsoc nowadays
https://overlookedtoon.tumblr.com/post/145212329922/hayao-miyazaki-on-animal-farm
> However, exploitation is not only found in communism, capitalism is a system just like that. I believe a company is common property of the people that work there. But that is a socialistic idea. Nowadays, American style capitalism has become mainstream. The stock holders have voices and change managers to get more profit in the current term. In addition to that, they downsize or restructure regular employees and enlarge temporary workers and part time workers. For them, temporary workers are just disposable. On the other hand, regular employees also are completely exhausted in hard work. Such a system is quite Animal Farm like.
> Its scheme used to be common sense to the world. Now, everyone has forgotten about that. Everyone assumes he or she is in middle-class and blinded by the mechanism of exploitation. At a time, during the economic growth after the war, business managers also had to work hard. Because of its graduated taxation, the income gap In Japan was small. Before the bubble years, our society was like that and they didn’t feel the reality on exploitation. But all were crushed by the burst bubble. Lifelong employment and seniority system were thrown away. Efficiency pay and target settings were brought. In my opinion these efficiency pays will bring workers nervous diseases. It is obvious that talented people must do their best at work without thinking about its return. Don’t work for money. Actually, we need money though… anyway, we’ve thought that “Work is one’s partner for life”.…
> Europe got disenchanted in socialism during the Spanish Civil War in 1936. During that war, not only socialists but also anarchists, democrats and several movements gathered in the people front. In the war, they were betrayed by Soviet Union. It was a big experience for George Orwell and he wrote “Homage to Catalonia” as a betrayed revolution. As they got to know more about the reality of the Soviet Union, progressive young people broke down with socialism. After WW2, the communists in France and Italy looked for ways of democratic socialism. At last, Europeans reached to EU. It isn’t built by the socialists though, that is the only way to survive for Europeans.
> Can we build democratic socialism? If it is possible, then I believe it can exist on the opposite side of globalism. In that sense I mean local production for local consumption. The wave of things like slow food or slow life comes more than once. That is kind of that. The desire of humans must be controlled. The idea that human desire can be grown infinitely must be changed at the moment when they get to know that the resources of the earth are finite. My little wish is to wear domestically produced underwear. Maybe there are some if we pay enough. However, all underwear that can be purchased for reasonable price are all from China. No.474
>>471Citation needed dolt.
No.475
>>472>demsoc nowadaysHis opinion on the USSR comes from world-weary experience with the Japanese system and its imperfections combined with the preference for ideas of 'freedom' that most artists dedicated obsessively to their craft, seem to possess. He merely states his thoughts on the matter and believes them, but does not bother spreading his idealistic assertions outside of occasional conversation, and even the most radical of ideas still have a grain of truth in them. Disillusioned people tend to be like that.
No.476
>>471Didn't this man literally protest the 2003 Oscars because he didn't agree with the US war in Iraq?
also he and I share the same birthday lol No.477
>>471retard
>>472>You have to understand that in Japan, the word "communism" isn't as demonized as in the USEh, not really, it's still kinda bad.
BTW, while working at Toei he was about to give up on making anime but then a soviet cartoon made him change his mind. Thanks USSR!
No.480
>>473>meowzaki>cat behaviours match real personHeh
No.481
An hour long video that goes in depth of Miyazaki's ideological history. It's nice. I particularly like when the video delves into the Nauusica of the Wind Valley manga.
https://youtu.be/UMXN6B-tqZM No.482
>>469After reading Thomas LaMarre's
The Anime Machine I can safely say he's a grumpy old man who can be pretty full of himself.
No.484
>>482>pretty full of himselfNot without reason
No.486
I like his anime. He should put half-naked catgirls selling merch into his movies.
No.487
>>483Extremely based, except for this:
>Stating that 3D animation is a disease that robs artists of creativity in a Q&A session with Pixar’s John Lasseter>Telling a Ghibli animator working on Princess Mononoke that the kid’s never known suffering because if he did he’d be a better animator No.488
>>474>Citation needed dolt.The Wind Rises
No.489
>>488oh shit forgot to remove the shitposting name lol
No.490
>>484Him being in many ways symbolic of the Japanese "left" serves as a testament to their impotence.
No.491
>>488>The Wind Rises<A Japanese animated historical drama film depicting the empire before a world war
Accurate depiction does not equal approval of the depiction.
No.492
>>471He has specifically discussed his contradictory love of Japanese warplanes and his absolute hatred of war and imperialism.
No.493
>>492>>471As a person who likes tanks and trucks and airplanes and submarines… it makes sense. Liking amazing technology and its power is not the same as liking its actual use.
No.494
>>488>The wind risesThe main character was such a piece of shit. Who ignores their dying wife to go play airplane designer?
No.496
>>487He's right about the 3D stuff tho. All 3D movie shit is mass produced garbage that all look the same cuz everyone wants to make everything look as realistic as possible. There are exceptions tho like Spiderverse or the new Lupin movie.
No.497
>>496>All 3D movie shit is mass produced garbageYeah I have to disagree. I suggest you see the videos on how something like Zootopia is animated for an idea of how much work goes into most 3D animation.
>Inb4 some shitty exampleI have only to bring up the horrible, lazy 2D animations that exist in the boatload, in Western and Eastern animation.
No.498
>>493>>492Also, his father and his uncle managed an airplane components factory that contributed to the war efforts. Miyazaki always felt guilty about this, that's why he always denounced war in his movies.
No.501
>>500It's excellent you bloody loth cat
No.502
>>499Even if it ends up being a good movie, i feel like i'll just go "man i wish they made this in traditional animation"
At the very least it does look better than crap like beastars
No.503
I never watched any of his animes I think but from this thread he seems pretty based
No.506
>>505Lol why? Because of the fascist pig line?
No.508
>>477which soviet cartoon?
No.509
>>508The snow queen (1967)
No.1253
>>502>man i wish they made this in traditional animationIt wouldn't look as good as 30 years ago anyway.
>look better than crap like beastarsBeastars is a TV anime. It's obviously not gonna look gorgeous like a theatrical film.
>>499This looks unlike any CGI movie or anime I've seen. It's like a very good mix between 3D and 2D and the end result looks like a painting. pretty good
No.1262
>>1253> It's obviously not gonna look gorgeous like a theatrical film.There has been much better 3D animation. Beastars animation is fucking RWBY-tier, and unlike Roosterteeth its made by a fairly large company.
No.1263
>>1253>unlike any CGI movie or anime I've seenIts fairly typical for Pixar works TBH
>mix between 3D and 2D They use texturing actually, no real 2D involved
No.1272
Overrated, one good story and way too many generic folktale adaptations.
No.1313
>>1310It has to be Nauusica
No.1314
>>1313That anon's correct. I did like Mononoke-hime but the Nausicaa parallels were too big to ignore.
No.1393
>>1314Imo what makes Nausicaa work a bit better than Mononoke in terms of themes (they both deal with the capitalist destruction of Nature) is that Nausicaa’s conflict is primarily between humans as in the real world (humans aren't destroying nature because they are evil, but because of competition with other humans), the bugs aren’t gorgeous or beautiful (i.e. in animation something meant to be cute to humans) but still worthy of protection and life anyway, the story already takes place after humanity’s destruction of Nature via war, and the driving force isn’t to stop humans from destroying Nature per se but rather to stop humans from trying to destroy each other which comes with the natural result of destroying Nature as well.
No.1847
Anyone know where I can watch
"Romance, Survivor's Guilt and Antifascist Fisticuffs - Nausicaäst #07 Porco Rosso (Kurenai no Buta)"
It's a video essay on Porco Rosso that got deleted by Studio Ghibli fuckery.
No.1929
>>1410I just watched this and it is so far been the hardest Miyuzaki movie for me to parse in terms of its message? I feel like there is a lot there, but I just can't quite put my finger on all of it. Whats the /leftypol/ take?
No.1930
>>1929It's got plenty of messages in it, anti-war, anti-bureaucracy, etc. Its not focused on any one theme but more a collective of various leftist themes within the story.
No.1931
>>1930The thing that really stood out to me during my viewing was something about accepting yourself(??) and growing up. Sophie keeps thinking that she isn't beautiful but by the end she has come to love herself. Her whole experience as an old woman with the curse maybe made her not even have to have the young person anxiety of what do others think I look like because she just looks old and there is nothing for her to do about it. But she has flashes of youth when she is happy or asleep, maybe in moments where she feels at ease with herself. Idk I really liked that aspect of the movie even if I can't nail down exactly what makes it work so well.
No.1938
>>1374retard alert
>>1929pure definition of KINO
No.1977
>>1938what is your take on howl's? what do you like about it?
No.1980
>>1978understandable even if boring response
No.1983
Apparently Miyazaki said that marxism was a mistake, not anime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMXN6B-tqZM&t=1s No.1987
>>1983>>1848Video was already posted and you should watch the video because there def more to that quote than those four words. And of course there is a ton more in the movies themselves.
No.2083
>>2004Man imaging making such a great work of art that people make big ass essays analyzing it. Wish I had the talent to pull something like this
No.2095
>>2083His son recently made an animated film where he essentially expressed his desire to kill his father sometimes. It was rather amusing given that his response was that authors SHOULDN'T involve their close personal issues in it… which is really fucking ironic coming from Miyazaki
No.2721
>>469I don't always agree with him but he makes otaku, at least western ones, seethe, so he's pretty cool in my book.
>In Japan today, animated TV shows filled with all kinds of fancy, robotlike ,mechanical creations are all the rage. I have certainly drawn lots of mecha, or mechanical things, myself. but the general theme in currently popular shows seems to be that the protagonist jumps on a giant machine he couldn’t possible have created on his own, battles the enemy in it, and then boasts about winning. I frankly hate these kind of shows. I don’t care what types of robots are featured. For me, in a truly successful mecha show the protagonist should struggle to build his own machine, he should fix it when it breaks down, and he should have to operate it himself. No.2979
Miyazaki is a skilled artist and story teller but his concrete principles that absolutely denigrate Otaku and Weeb lifestyles make him based, because while he understands why they exist, he does not excuse their behaviour.
No.3372
he is a master artist, the top of his field. i am a lowely grub compared to such greatness.
No.3379
>>3372>69th post in threadneat
No.3503
the most based man alive along with anno
No.3820
some favorite, more nice Ghibli stuff: Whisper of the Heart, The Cat Returns, My Neighbors the Yamadas, Panda Go Panda, Castle of Cagliostro
No.3837
Weebs hate him because he speaks the truth
No.3860
>>3846I could have sworn there already was one for Miyazaki
No.3868
>>469He's a lolicon lmaooo
No.3873
>>3872And they aren't sexualized. Having young girls or boys be the main characters of X or Y story is not 'lolicon'.
Moreover
1) A drunk rant being told second-hand is far from reliable. Drunk people say all sorts of shit sometimes, and a second hand account of something from years ago is an unconfirmed anecdote
2) Bai-Niang was essentially a 'waifu' back when he was in highschool, which means he was around the same age, 2-4 years older than the main character. That's like saying a 60 year old man attracted/associating to a 56 year old woman is a gerontophile.
No.3876
>>3868 >>3872 Lolicon is shit but this is tumblrina-tier reaching.
No.4485
One of my favorite works of Miyzaki's is Princess Mononoke, it contains social themes, historical themes and mythology of Japanese culture, blended into an excellent story.
No.4683
>>3872>>3873What's his view on it currently? He did say he didn't like modern loli anime.
No.4689
>>4681>keeps right going back to his trash>literally couldn't give a fuck about publicity of his moviesThis man is classy as heck.
No.4690
>>4681 Holy BASED. Also, fuck journalists.
No.5624
>>497>how much work goes into most 3D animationin this case the mud pie labor theory of value applies I'm afraid
No.8877
>>499So was this movie any good?
No.9187
>>5642I mean they're a bit different stories lol
No.9188
>>4681The man really is an artist… even in his interactions you can tell.
No.9275
bump
No.9419
I loved On Your Mark and really wished it would have gotten a full story to it, but at the same time the lack of additional content lets peoples minds wander and run free to create stories in their heads
https://ghibli.fandom.com/wiki/On_Your_Mark No.9428
Oh I didn't read the whole thread and it was already mentioned in these posts
>>477 >>509. Anyways I posted an article about that here
>>9427 if anyone is interested in the story.
No.9569
Embedding error.
Sherlock Hound is criminally underrated
No.9708
Miyazaki was really harsh on his son, but it makes sense.
No.10133
>>3860Really? If anyone finds it, post it.
No.10168
Would anime today be better if Americans rightfully executed the Emperor for his war crimes after the second world war instead of blaming it all on Hideki Tojo? Someone should send that question to Miyazaki.
No.10234
Miyazaki's involvement in the 60s and 70s revolutionary movements and his leftism originated as a part of the environmental revolts du to Japanese companies and government dismissing the impacts their horrific waste dumping practices such at as Minamata,
>>>/edu/7247 However
>Around the end of the 1980s and the beginning of the 1990s, Miyazaki came to the conclusion that Marxism (and Historical Materialism) is wrong, and he totally forsook it. He said that his realization had more to do with writing Nausicaä than the collapse of the communist bloc. (As Russians continue, "And if you still believe in Communism by the time you are 30, then you have no brain.") You can clearly see how this turnabout affected him in how he ended the manga Nausicaä.http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/miyazaki/101.html#beliefs
>Around the fall of the Soviet Union Miyazaki stopped considering himself a Marxist. According to himself it was because he had come to the conclusion that workers aren't always the good guys, an opinion that few Marxists certainly wouldn't have any problem agreeing with. >In an interview from 2008 in Studio Ghibli's own magazine Neppu Miyazaki still voices a more or less Marxist analysis of capitalism. What he seems to have lost belief in are the possibilities of socialism. His view on mankind is too pessimistic to allow for such a conviction. The democratic socialism he may possibly believe in is small-scale and local. As with William Morris his resistance against industrial civilisation lies in the tension between green conservatism and a Marxist trust in the possibilities of collective non-alienating labour.>The essayist Margaret Talbot has called Miyazaki a case-in-point example of Gramsci's adage of "pessimism of the intellect and optimism of the will". Despite a deep distrust of humankind's ability to live in peace and balance with nature he continues to make films that present optimism and belief in the future.>In an interview in Neppu he speaks of his memories from his time as a young union activist: "I consider us to have the right to revolt. To speak about my own experiences, I was very involved with the unions during the 1960's. I don't mean to say that our activism was right or wrong. But it was better to do something than not doing anything. Revolutions should be made everywhere."Johan Persson
Flamman, October 11th 2018, issue 40
It seems he's waxed and waned over the years
No.10528
>>10514I have seen this film as well, and i think you are misreading it, the airplane engineer guy is shown as part of the machine that is being abused for war by imperial japan.
Think about it if you blame technology and engineers for the death and destruction in WW2, from whom are you taking away blame.
The ruling classes are the ones that make people fight wars.
Another point is that we should not consider peace in opposition to technology.
No.11131
>>10528>the airplane engineer guy is shown as part of the machine that is being abused for war by imperial japan I'm aware, that's the reason I used uoatation marks for 'bad guy'
>we should not consider peace in opposition to technology Also correct. A lot of nonces seem to think Miyazaki is anti-technology, but the reality is that hi films featuring technology is about peaceful use of it - Princess Monoke isn't an attack on industrial progress but a musing on the struggle of man and nature and the balance that is hard to uphold.
No.12684
>>12682The screenshot you posted already gives the answer, he knew it because he hung around otaku. Which is reasonable, since he was an anime fan making content whose main audience was other anime fans. The rest is guilt by association faggotry.
Now I have a question: when so much modern anime is unquestionably, shamelessly perverted towards children, why go after one of the only guys who's willing to call the medium on its bullshit using only circumstantial evidence?
No.12685
>>12684>why go after one of the only guys who's willing to call the medium on its bullshit using only circumstantial evidence?I don't know, I said I wasn't accusing him of being a pedo himself. And even if the drunk incident actually happened, it would be obvious that he's not proud of any of this.
No.12701
>>469his version of Lupin is the best one next to Koike's
No.12764
He’s correct that most anime fucking sucks
No.13945
stumbled on a funny WaPo review of princess mononoke from 1999. the reviewer disliked it because it wasn't made with western filmmaker sensibilities, namely that the violence was too restrained. he also called the animation lifeless, criticizing the "hordes" of animators at studio ghibli who couldn't match the elegance of disney animation
https://archive.ph/nKEj8 No.13948
>>13945This has to be a joke. Old Disney animation of the "Golden Age" from Pinnochio and Snow White to Peter Pan and Aladdin are wondrfully animated, but they too took shortcuts in animation (a prominent example are various animation recolors for Sword in the Stone, Jungle Book and Robin Hood, but those are acceptable. Monoke does not have these 'short-cuts' and is very meticulously animated. Calling it lifeless is fucking retarded.
The lack of violence being graphic enough is burgeroid mentality (not to mention Disney having very hard censorship in regards to violence, even in the 90s).
>wasn't made with western filmmaker sensibilitiesKek, more like burger sensibilities, given that many European animations have similar aesthetics, minus the eyes.
Total idiocy and fail of a contrarian overall, IMO
No.13978
>mononoke
>lifeless animation
TL Note: "There wasn't constant action so I got bored."
No.14006
>>471agriculture led to fighting wars over resources, yet you still eat fucking food, how curious
No.18363
>>469He's a marxist (or at least was before he got blackpilled and became a depressed eco-pessimist) who organized one of the first animator's unions in Japan
Princess Mononoke kicks ass
My Neighbor Totoro is a family classic
Nausicaa's setting and art design are cool as fuck
Castle in the Sky is the ultimate YA adventure movie
The Wind Rises is a work of art
Castle of Cagliostro is the best Lupin III movie
okay okay Mystery of Mamo is a very close second and his work on the TV series are some of the best episodes of the franchise
He's a respected artist who makes otaku seethe by being brutally honest
He's buds with Mamoru Oshii and Hideaki Anno which is cool as fuck
No.18364
>>18363 (me)
oh and like
>>472 pointed out, even if he isn't specifically marxist anymore, he's still very much on the political left and remains an anti-capitalist.
No.18366
>>13945>princess mononoke>lifeless animationwhat is it with americans and thinking that animation has to be as rubbery as possible to be good?
No.18371
>>18357holy FUCK, that animation is incredible
No.18373
>>13945>westoids are so racist that they can't help but describe asians as a horde>even a fucking animation studiowow let me read this.
<Think of "Princess Mononoke" as "Fantasia" set on Iwo Jima.Holy shit lmao.
<I liked it when he shot an arrow so expertly it beheaded one of his pursuers.<Well, it didn't strike me as nearly as intriguing as "Akira," the underground sensation of several years ago, which lacked those swanky credentials. It was about a gang of delinquents who fought a giant in the future. I think. Anyway, it had lots of cool destruction, machines and guns.real patrician tastes here
<The director Hayao Miyazaki seems uncomfortable with pure aggression and naked hostility; the impulse in the film is toward reconciliation, not conquest, a spirit that feels peculiar in an environment so bloody and violent.<Though people are nasty, brutish and short, and, worse, not nice to Mother Nature, none, really, are punished; those who die (there are lots) are incidental to the story, not major parts of it.christianity and its consequences
<Somehow the Japanese haven't quite mastered the one trick remaining in the animation bag, which Disney aced years back, and that's the sense of motion. These creatures are fanciful, even beautiful, but somehow when they move they don't seem fully alive. The best of Disney–say, the great "Bambi"–yields a sinuous luminescence, a sense of muscle and bone moving under supple skin, a majesty. Miyazaki's hordes of animators haven't penetrated beyond the skin; the moving creatures feel inarticulate and jerky, almost weightless, particularly when played against painterly background mattes. They are to Bambi what Godzilla was to the Beast from 20,000 fathoms.This part is funny because everyone knows Gojira and literally nobody remembers whatever the fuck the other thing is.
No.18388
>>18366 Disney non-Mickey animation isn't rubbery either, if you look at the documentaries they took a lot of effort making their films, only short early stuff and modern lazy noodleshit that is like that. But yeah, Burger critics are inane.
No.18390
>>18373>christianity and its consequences The hell? Christianity isn't to blame here, it's retarded porky imperialism mentality.
Bible on animals:
The Ten Commandments reminds us that we are supposed to treat animals with respect and care, particularly those who work our lands. And this is repeated across the Bible. To go against this is considered a punishable sin.
As for reconciliation in a society of conquest
>Matthew 5:9 - Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God implying that those that seek to make peace are righteous, over those that seek conquest.
Then there is the phrase to Turn the Other cheek, meaning that one should not seek revenge and respond to provocation violently.
The porky ideology is as anti-christian as it is anti-human and anti-nature.
No.18391
>>18363>The Wind Rises is a work of artOpinion discarded. It's blatant capitalist apologia that uses art and its merit as an excuse for exploitation.
No.18392
>>18391 >Opinion discarded Don't care, didn't ask.
>It's blatant capitalist apologia It's this retarded take again. How is it capitalist apologia? How is it at all relevant to 'exploitation' when the most criticism that can be raised is pro-militarism and possible pro-nationalism, and even those are shaky assertions at best.
see
>>10514 >>10528 &
>>11131 https://archive.ph/EK1iG https://archive.ph/28C9H No.18396
>>18389>a bleak coming-of-age story that's basically an allegory for japan losing its shit and drowning in capitalism and high technology that lightly plays around with broader metaphysical themes of death and rebirth<hahahaha bike make big boomwhy are critics over here such smoothbrains when it comes to animation
No.18398
>>18391>capitalist apologiaExplain how a movie that openly condemns its own protagonist's willing blindness to his complicity in imperialist war is capitalist apologia.
No.18399
>>18396this is why the west can only make "adult cartoons" that are just family guy or rick and morty rehashes
No.18489
japanese zizek
No.18490
>>18489in a lot of ways too
No.20358
>>20342 Man the experience of seeing this film in the movie theatre is indescribably unique, like I'm bearing witness to something. Every crisp detail and motion was visible and I could see the meticulousness of the animators. Like Mononoke the film was very different to what I thought I remembered and has an untraditional ending to its conflict without some climactic battalic victory but rather a peaceful yet still happy one, with a strange melancholy behind it's joy.
While films like Grave of the Fireflies and The Wind Rises are also excellent films, it is Miyazaki's work in the more abstract that I find to be his best, where he weaves minor mysticism and creative detail to create a fantastical beautifully strange world for his characters to exist in. It's why I prefer Porco Rosso over his other War-related films as well.
No.20359
>>20358That sounds amazing, I wish they screened these where I live.
No.20369
>>469Hasn't watched his works but his opinions seem to be bringe. I both agree and disagree with his opinion of modern anime because I have a love/hate relationship with it. Some cliches and aspects of it I find enjoyable and some make me want to choke myself to death. Overall, he seems to be a moralist at heart, something that an egoist asshole like me cannot get behind.
>>18489In which possible universe? Zizek is more chill and critical of ideology.
No.20370
>>20369hes a moralist anti-technology boomer who stopped being a socialist decades ago and whines about otaku, especially gun otaku, despite praising anno and being a military vehicle otaku himself. his movies are fucking great tho so thats what matters in the end
No.20372
>>20370>anti-technology boomerTed?
No.20373
>>20370His father ran some airplane parts factory during the war.
No.20390
>>20370>hes a moralist anti-technology boomerIf that's all you got from Miyazaki then I can only say you've missed the point.
>praising anno He criticizes him too, and prohibited him from making extra scenes in Nausicaa because he didn't want Anno to "play war"
>a military vehicle otaku himselfLiking cool mil-tech =/= liking war or their actual use.
No.20394
>>20390Most gun otaku are fairly apolitical, at least in Japan.
No.20395
I do wonder if the "ironic weeb" "anime is trash and so am I" trend was influenced by Miyazaki.
No.20403
>>20390>If that's all you got from MiyazakiHe didn't say this, many Marxists are also moralistic regardless of their political ideology. The only people who are truly immune to moralism are Stirnerites, and even they can make moralistic claims if they haven't read Stirner well. Everyone else can not only believe in morality, but also zealously enforce it. The most "progressive" people are often the most zealoted.
No.20410
>>20403 1) The idea of morals being "bad" is a spook in itself
2) Stirnerite ideology is a joke and failed, ergo Marx criticizing him
No.20414
>>20403>>20410moralism isnt "when you have morals"
No.20417
>>20414>moralism isnt "when you have morals"Oh, did I say that? You've understood nothing I have said. No matter how much you'll deny it, morality is coersive in its very nature, it relies on indoctrinating people into following it and keeping them in line. That's how spooks work, morality is an internal police state. Zealotry is as natural of an outgrowth of moral repression as apples being a natural outgrowth of apple trees, morality is useless if it's not enforced, it cannot propagate without its enforcement. I'm not saying that morality is equivalent to moralizing, it's just that moralizing is a desperate measure to enforce said morality because morality relies on its universal adoption for "the good of society." It's not about politics. It's about how far you are willing to go with enforcing your morals. Morality is similar to any other religion (which Marxists often hate no matter how peaceful it is ironically enough). Moralizing is just a more aggressive way of enforcing morality, that is all, no moralfag is immune to it, not even Marxists.
No.20418
>>20417you can have morals that diverge from the mainstream but you cant not have morals
No.20419
>>20417Now that I think of it: morality IS political. The same way Christianity or any other religion is. Morality's ultimate goal is some vision of society in the end. "If only all people did this and that and didn't do this and that." Which implies its influence on one's political ideology (hence why such a Frankenstein as Marxist humanism and such concept as class morality exist) It's just that morality isn't leftist or rightist. And neither is moralism.
No.20420
>>20418>you cant not have moralsClassic meaningless moralist copium. No, having preferences isn't having morals. No, liking/disliking something isn't having morals. Neither is having empathy the same as having morals, that would imply that emotions are the same as moral rules. Which they aren't, emotions are an instinctual response, morality is a set of ideas about how a person is
ought to act, Even non-human animals have emotions but morality is a human construct. Like any other idea such as Christianity.
No.20425
My grandma took me to see spirited away when it was in theaters. We were the only ones there. It was nice. I love his movies. I love watching the little documentaries that follow the black pilled old man with crossover episodes with Anno. I love his endless desire to make great things and still think his work is trash. I want to hug him. I want Ghibli jazz playing at all times in the background.
No.20430
>>20427He's upset that he doesn't spend enough time with his family.
No.20471
>>20427I didn't know his "last" film was out, I was waiting on any news but didn't hear anything. You got a link?
>>20425 THIS! Are you me?
No.20472
>>20420>>20419>>20417Stop derailing the thread with this word salad nonsense. Reading this set of replies it's obvious that none of you even understand the definition of morality, and it is questionable if you actually know it without looking it up in a dictionary, it's just reflexive adolescent 'fugg uthority' nonsense. You also clearly do not understand the definition of Moralism and the difference between MoralISM and morals themselves. Hell you don't even seem to understand the meaning of empathy as at least one post here seems to confuse empathy with sympathy after bringing it up in relation to emotions. Following that with an inane false equivalency of it being "like religion" or an 'idea like Christianity' is outright laughable. Why are current site users so ill-read in even basic definitions, let alone Marxist theory and ethics? No wonder we have unironic Stirner posters.
>Lenin pointed out the tremendous importance that an honest, communist attitude towards work has for the education of young people. “… It is necessary,” he said, “that the Union of Communist Youth educate everyone from a young age, from the age of twelve, in conscious and disciplined work.” >"The revolution demands from the masses, from the individual, concentration, effort. She does not tolerate orgiastic states, such as are common among D'Annunzio's decadent heroes and heroines. Intemperance in sexual life is bourgeois: it is a sign of decay. The proletariat is the rising class. He does not need intoxication to deafen him or excite him. He does not need the intoxication of sexual intemperance, nor the intoxication of alcohol. He does not dare and does not want to forget about the vileness, filth and barbarism of capitalism. He draws his strongest motives for struggle from the position of his class, from the communist ideal. He needs clarity, clarity, and again - clarity. Therefore, I repeat, there should be no weakness, no waste and destruction of forces. Self-control, self-discipline - not slavery; they are also necessary in love. But sorry, Clara. I have deviated far from the starting point of our conversation. Why didn't you call me to order? Anxiety made me speak up. The future of our youth worries me deeply. She is part of the revolution. And if the harmful phenomena of bourgeois society begin to spread to the world of the revolution, like the widely branching roots of certain weeds, then it is better to oppose this in advance."TL;DR: Read a book you retards and stop talking out of your ass about something that you pretend to understand.
No.20473
>>20471Yes, you’re me and I’m you! But only metaphorically.
No.20483
>>20471Its in theaters and only in Japan. So unless a Japanbro films it and then somehow, that bootleg is translated, it will be a while before we can even see it in theaters, let alone a pirate of it. But its said to be coming to NA in late 2023, so maybe soon
> I was waiting on any news but didn't hear anythingMakes sense for a film with zero marketing lol
No.20494
>>20483I'll see if the Russian sites might have it, got a name or link to a page on it so I know what to search?
>Makes sense for a film with zero marketing I mean I had no idea how far along it was when I first heard he was doing a 'final' film (again) and that was years back, so I wasn't holding my breath checking in on it, (basically just like Evangelion 4.0). It's sad it got so little marketing, and strange given Japanese obsession with that, though the lack of such news outside Japan feels similar to the OG 90s anime scene, when only the top hits of Japan reached America, like Ninja Scroll or DBZ or Ghost in a Shell.
No.20504
miyazaki is a man who grew old without developing wisdom. pointless person.
No.20508
He is the very best, like no one ever was before
No.20705
>>20701Just came back from Mononoke and wow it was beautiful. There's something, hard to put into words, that I feel afterwards, like something truly artful has touched me. It leaves this feeling of… completion and contemplation that inspires me, to better myself, to BE better. Like some balm of the soul. It's very different to just watching it on a computer or TV screen. Sorry I'm rambling a bit, I enjoyed a wonderful cocktail right after and its like it released me of all the stress and frustrations I've had, like the film has purified me of something dark… for a time, like the curse of the Prince.
Truly a wonderful experience that, should Miyazaki's films be in theatres again, I very much recommend you all go see, just for the art of it.
No.20706
>>20705>There's something, hard to put into words, that I feel afterwardsI can easily describe what it made me feel: ennui.
No.20708
>>20706That's your loss I suppose, if you feel listless. Personally it gave me catharsis.
No.20728
>>20727It looks like it's going to be a masterpiece on par with Spirited Away.
No.20930
>>20705This feeling is something I’ve been chasing for a while. A few things have made me feel it. Like I was hit by a truck of raw emotion. It lasts for a day or two. Like an immediate nostalgic layer on top of my active daily perception. Like a post mortem depression that glistens from a kernel of the true beauty of the world I’ll never get back.
No.21091
Anyone ever watch his Lupin III Part 2 episodes? They're pretty great, almost as good as Cagliostro
No.21095
Pretty sure this is his actual last one, anons. This comes off less as his periodic petulant
>anime is TRASH I am DONE I am QUITTING
and more
<I'm a fucking octogenarian workaholic chain smoker, I don't have much time left, I have to wrap this up for posterity
No.21099
>>21094>work happily till you dieWay to take it WAY out of context.
1) There's a lot lost in translation
2) the meaning refers to the idea of finding something to do that you feel fulfilled in doing and being happy to do that work for the rest of your life (which was translated literally from Japanese to "'til you die" which is a phrasing that in japanese has different connotations.
>>21095 >TFW Miyazaki will die in your lifetime and he'll never make the films you've enjoyed since childhood, ever again. >TFW you will never feel the magic of experiencing a Miyazaki film for the first time. No.21100
>>21099the whole criticism is retarded tho, tomino is literally one of those "get in the robot, pussy" jackasses. hell, thinking evangelion is "nihilistic" is a braindead take
No.21102
>>21100>tomino is literally one of those "get in the robot, pussy" jackasses Well not quite. Tomino's Gundam has a lot of traumatized children also not responding healthily to being murder-robot pilots, rather than depressive spirals like Shinji, they went 'Nam Vet PTSD mode and threw themselves into battle like psychos, which also, in a sense, is as realistic a behavior as Shinji's fall into apathy.
>hinking evangelion is "nihilistic" is a braindead take Eh, the original Evangelion has a bit of nihilistic view of things as Shinji constantly gets screwed over every time something good to him happens. Everyone he knows and he himself are broken in some way. Sure EoE ends with Shinji choosing to come back from Human Instrumentality and it can be imagined that the rest of humanity also will heal their souls and follow in restoring their individuality, but it's unconfirmed. All in all it's quite a bit depressing even if the series finale of "Congratulations" was supposed to be uplifting and cathartic (which it was to me at least) but that's also for a specific sort of person, usually those themselves suffering with issues of self-reflection, self-doubt and depression (which reflects Anno and his team's state of mind during the making of the series), however to the average, well-adjusted person, many elements like that may not connect to them and it'll seem like a depressing fall into hell with a bittersweet, unclear ending. So long story short, I can understand the interpretation of it as nihilistic.
I'm not even going to touch the schizophrenic nonsense the Rebuild films were however, because starting from 3.0, they lost all semblance of sincerity or cohesion.
No.21112
>>21102>I'm not even going to touch the schizophrenic nonsense the Rebuild films were however, because starting from 3.0, they lost all semblance of sincerity or cohesion.That's really the issue with the rebuilds, isn't it? They not bad films per se
except 3.0 which really betrays its status as a prolonged first act to 3.0+1.0 and as such feels like a meandering torso but the project as a whole feels lacking in cohestion. 3.0 + 1.0 manages to pull it all together to an extent but on the whole the project feels very tonally and narratively disjunctive far beyond what the original was able to get away with
No.21117
>>21112The Rebuilds first films were initially just a OVA shortening and re-imagining of the original series, deviating significantly with Zeruel (although admittedly there are portions of the first 2 rebuilds that I liked, such as Asuka and Rei's informal cooking for Shinji thing which was done without being too moe, and had wholesome vibes that still fit with Evangelion's story. 3.0 just felt like it was trying to hard to be artsy and failed utterly, with bitch-Misato, dyke-haircut Ritsuko and the inanity of the 2 factions. Gendo wearing 00's visor was a good touch and the idea that there were previous "shinji" that were extracted from Eva-01 only to turn out to be eldritch imitations is also an interesting idea… that never went anywhere. The part where Kaworu and Shinji played piano together was just infuriating as someone that plays piano, because it felt so fucking artificial to me. Rei became the doll she was memed as. We don't talk about Mari (Sue). 4.0 was just trash. That first trailer with the marching, headless EVA units looked so fucking comedic and stupidly out of place for Evangelion I burst out laughing when I saw it. I discussed some of this in the Evangelion thread, especially that shitty ending and Rei's absolutely stupid death. The original NGE's ending and key moments are memorable and have been memed to death since it came out almost 3 decades ago, the rebuilds' best moments will be forgotten by most by the 2030s me-thinks.
The final message in the last Rebuild film was also inane, boiling down to "go touch grass, work managerial job, have sex" which isn't technically incorrect, but its so tonally deaf to the story of Evangelion. That finale with grown up Shinji and Mari was attempting the same vibe as the Slice of Life dream Shinji had during Instrumentality, where it's meant to be a hopeful "life's not necessarilly misery, but it just feels very lame and almost like the Rebuilds ripped off the dynamics of 02 from Darling in the Franxx (ironic considering the latter is literally a rip-off of NGE with some Gundam slapped in).
No.21165
>>21163Yeah, this is looking like one of his darker works for sure.
No.21560
Going to watch Howl's Castle tonight. I'm pretty hyped lads, because it's been a hot minute since I've seen it.
If any of you want to see it in theatres, it'll be out for a few days
https://www.fathomevents.com/events/Howls-Moving-Castle-Studio-Ghibli-Fest-2023 No.21561
>>21560I liked that, Sophie is awesome.
No.21876
>“Americans shoot things and they blow up and the like, so as you’d expect, they make movies like that,” Miyazaki expressed at the time. “If someone is the enemy, it’s okay to kill endless numbers of them. Lord of the Rings is like that.”
>“The Lord of the Rings is a movie that has no problem doing that [not separating civilians from enemies, apparently]. If you read the original work, you’ll understand, but in reality, the ones who were being killed are Asians and Africans. Those who don’t know that, yet say they love fantasy are idiots.”
<Inb4 "muh Wind Rises is militarist"
This is a blatant misrepresentation of the film and ignores the decades of other Miyazaki films countermanding such a narrative. Not to mention that Miyazaki has never been one to be a blatant black-white idiot like some.
We see this in Howl's Castle, where battleships and the war is horrific and monstrous (literally) and its outright seen with disgust by our main characters.
We see this in Nausicaa, where the militarist path only leads to destruction and chaos and is an example of man's ignorant impulse to destroy what they feel threatened by
We see this in Princess Mononoke, where the avarice of the Emperor drove the poor to make a settlement based on the destruction of nature, as technological progress burns everything around it.
We see this in Porco Rosso, where a looming war and the overhanging threat of fascism slowly cramps down on freedom and how the guilt of war survival and self-loathing is seen in the pig-curse.
Yet we also see how and why people are driven to fight, to take such military actions, why humans would want to destroy nature and peace for the sake of progress, even if the consequences are bad, because people strive to improve and better their lives above mere survival and predatory relations and ironically can be led to do the opposite.
The Wind Rises specifically is about how a man that dreams to fly, to create wonderous machines is forced to do so through the only avenue available to him - the military-industrial complex, and how he suffers for it and how it becomes an obsession. This is not celebratory of war or the military. It along with Grave of the Fireflies proves the opposite in fact.
No.22233
>>21876How is the Wind Rises not militaristic? Sure it throws a few bones at the idea that 'damn isn't it bad the Zero will be used to kill people' but the overall narrative is a romantic (and completely made up) one about some guy's big dream to create something beautiful. The Japanese have always been dab hands at criticising American or German imperialism but are almost all completely disinterested in portraying the Japanese as the aggressors instead of the victims.
Why doesn't Wind Rises show how the Zero was used to butcher China and massacre millions? Oh yeah because the audience wouldn't like it and it strikes a bit too close to home for Miyazaki.
No.22234
>>22233Also worth noting that Grave of the Fireflies is all about how poor Japan was bullied by America and dindu nuffin (of course the a-bombings were a horrendous crime but why not make an anime about the rape of Nanking instead? Gee, I wonder…)
Miyazaki loves to talk shit about Americans but movies like Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now, Starship Troopers, Platoon, Schindler's List, and so on piss all over his 'anti-militarist' credentials. Hell even other Japanese movies like The Human Condition are far more uncompromising than his dreck.
No.22235
>>22233>How is the Wind Rises not militaristicDoes it glorify war? No. Is it romanticizing military combat? No. Is it apologizing for War Crimes, or outright denying them? No. So the answer is it isn't militaristic, at all.
>the overall narrative is a romantic (and completely made up) one about some guy's big dream to create something beautiful. It isn't completely made up and you'd know that if you read any of the backstory
>When we awoke on the morning of December 8, 1941, we found ourselves — without any foreknowledge — to be embroiled in war… Since then, the majority of us who had truly understood the awesome industrial strength of the United States never really believed that Japan would win this war. We were convinced that surely our government had in mind some diplomatic measures which would bring the conflict to a halt before the situation became catastrophic for Japan. But now, bereft of any strong government move to seek a diplomatic way out, we are being driven to doom. Japan is being destroyed. I cannot do [anything] other but to blame the military hierarchy and the blind politicians in power for dragging Japan into this hellish cauldron of defeat. >- Okumiya, Masatake; Horikoshi, Jiro (1956). Zero! The Story of Japan's Air War in the Pacific. New York: EP Dutton & Co. ISBN 0-74344-491-4. pg401–2 And there is nothing wrong with having a romantic story either.
>The Japanese have always been dab hands at criticising American or German imperialism but are almost all completely disinterested in portraying the Japanese as the aggressors instead of the victims.You've never seen Princess Mononoke or Nausicaa, have you? Hell it sounds like you haven't even seen the film, since the film doesn't present the Japanese as victims in any shape or form.
>Why doesn't Wind Rises show how the Zero was used to butcher China and massacre millions Because that's not what the story is about, what a fallacious loaded question, seriously the number of ways this loaded statement is dismissible is almost laughable if it wasn't so disgusting.
- The Zero wasn't even a big part of the China campaign, since that was primarily ground-forces fighting.
- By this same logic a film about Kalashnikov should spend hours showing how Muslim terrorists and African slavers use the gun to slaughter tens of millions. Or lets take Korolev and focus only on how ICBMs carrying nuclear warheads will kill billions if launched, because guilt by association is such a valid argument! Or should we demonize Alexander Graham Bell for his inventions because they were made under a capitalist system? Sweeping generalizations like yours are fucking garbage arguments and are the mark of a contrarian seeking to concern troll. Literal /pol/ "muh iphone" argumentation.
>Oh yeah because it's irrelevant to the story and is a retarded nonsequitur. Consider talking a long walk off a short bridge.
>>22234>Grave of the Fireflies is all about how poor Japan was bullied by America and dindu nuffinUtterly disingenuously worded slander
>but why not make an anime about the rape of Nanking<literal whataboutism argument<dickmeasuring human suffering<Oh No, Imperial Japan was *gasp* imperialist, so that makes any war-crimes and horrors their people suffered totally fineAt the Nuremburg trials, a member of the proceedings defined evil as the lack of empathy and dehumanization of a victim. You are fucking evil and are by no metric communist, leftist or pro-proletarian.
>Schindler's ListThat fucking pisspoor excuse of a film? You dare to use THAT as an example, you uneducated halfwit? A film that turns an exploitative fucker like Schindler and heroizes him as "saving" jews? The only reason people even bought that shit was because it was sappy and Spielberg knows how to sell a good shot, the film is utterly ahistorical, and unlike The Wind Rises is genuinely dislikeable for making a hero out of a man as despicable as the rest of the nazis he associated with. Fuck you.
>piss all over his 'anti-militarist' credentialsBurger-brained wording, the films are completely different mediums, genres and plots, by that metric, Soviet war films piss all over your jank ass, edgy 'Nam movies… except they don't because unlike how your retarded, burgeroid peabrain thinks, that's not how movies work.
>Japanese movies like The Human Condition are far more uncompromisingYou've clearly never seen those films either, and are comparing (yet again) different genres entirely. Miyazaki's films are not ABOUT war, or anti-war, those are just themes within the films, but are secondary to the story he's telling. The movies you bring up are specifically war films, about war with stories tied to the battles and fighting and background leading up to said battles and fighting, you utter ignoramus.
No.22236
>>22235>Does it glorify war? No. Is it romanticizing military combat? No. Is it apologizing for War Crimes, or outright denying them? No. So the answer is it isn't militaristic, at all. How would people feel if there was a German film out there that's a 90 minute circlejerk about how 'beautiful' and romantic the development of the Panzer V was and the anti-war messaging is only tangential to the story? Sorry, silly question since that film probably wouldn't even be allowed to be made under German law.
>It isn't completely made up and you'd know that if you read any of the backstoryI looked it up after I watched it years ago and it made me dislike it even more. Your quote doesn't give any evidence of that. PS: They were already in a war when the Zero was being developed but it was with Chink subhumans so it doesn't count I guess.
>And there is nothing wrong with having a romantic story either. I don't have a problem with that tone when it comes to say, My Neighbour Totoro but when this is a movie about WW2 war machines that we're talking about, it is actually fucked up.
>You've never seen Princess Mononoke or Nausicaa, have you? Hell it sounds like you haven't even seen the film, since the film doesn't present the Japanese as victims in any shape or form. I haven't seen it in years but I remember how disgusted I felt by it. The only people to suffer any adversity in that movie are Japanese ie from the earthquake, the victims of the Zero are never featured.
"Because that's not what the story is about, what a fallacious loaded question, seriously the number of ways this loaded statement is dismissible is almost laughable if it wasn't so disgusting.
- The Zero wasn't even a big part of the China campaign, since that was primarily ground-forces fighting.
- By this same logic a film about Kalashnikov should spend hours showing how Muslim terrorists and African slavers use the gun to slaughter tens of millions. Or lets take Korolev and focus only on how ICBMs carrying nuclear warheads will kill billions if launched, because guilt by association is such a valid argument! Or should we demonize Alexander Graham Bell for his inventions because they were made under a capitalist system? Sweeping generalizations like yours are fucking garbage arguments and are the mark of a contrarian seeking to concern troll. Literal /pol/ "muh iphone" argumentation."
The Zero directly kept the war going on longer and therefore contributed to the slaughter of China, not to mention all the allied victims of the war. Maybe we just shouldn't make films that are all about worship of military technology but that's just me.
>Oh No, Imperial Japan was *gasp* imperialist, so that makes any war-crimes and horrors their people suffered totally fineI'm not saying that, but I find it very interesting how Miyazaki likes to posture as some great intellectual and anti-establishment figure when his bread and butter is attractively presented feel-good films and the only times he steps outside that it's for nationalistic atrocity porn. If Miyazaki didn't make such inflammatory statements I wouldn't dislike him as much as I do (he reminds me of Zizek in that way, all mouth no substance).
>At the Nuremburg trials, a member of the proceedings defined evil as the lack of empathy and dehumanization of a victim. You are fucking evil and are by no metric communist, leftist or pro-proletarian. Look like I said I feel sorry for everyone that dies in a war that didn't have anything to do with perpetuating it. But my criticism still stands. Miyazaki didn't make movies about the Japanese war on China because either it wouldn't sell, or because he personally didn't want to. Now that's reality, a film that doesn't make money doesn't really serve much purpose, but I certainly think he has to take a certain bit of the blame here. At least America had enough of a real counterculture and courageous directors that a film like Platoon could make money and be released as a success.
>That fucking pisspoor excuse of a film? You dare to use THAT as an example, you uneducated halfwit? A film that turns an exploitative fucker like Schindler and heroizes him as "saving" jews? The only reason people even bought that shit was because it was sappy and Spielberg knows how to sell a good shot, the film is utterly ahistorical, and unlike The Wind Rises is genuinely dislikeable for making a hero out of a man as despicable as the rest of the nazis he associated with. Fuck you. Well Schindler did save Jews did he not? Of course his legacy isn't perfect, he was still a businessman who made money off concentration camps, but his story is interesting as the movie is effective at what it sets out to do.
>Burger-brained wording, the films are completely different mediums, genres and plots, by that metric, Soviet war films piss all over your jank ass, edgy 'Nam movies… except they don't because unlike how your retarded, burgeroid peabrain thinks, that's not how movies work. Yes sure those films are different mediums but if Miyazaki wants to talk a big game then he should back it up. If anime wants to be taken seriously as a method of social critique then I don't think your examples about how militarism is portrayed as bad in the abstract in Miyazaki films are really enough. It's easy to say war is bad but a lot more difficult to tackle the nationalism of your own country.
>You've clearly never seen those films either, and are comparing (yet again) different genres entirely. Miyazaki's films are not ABOUT war, or anti-war, those are just themes within the films, but are secondary to the story he's telling. The movies you bring up are specifically war films, about war with stories tied to the battles and fighting and background leading up to said battles and fighting, you utter ignoramus.Yes I have seen them and find them to be more compelling given the time period they released in. Yes the examples I brought up were war films but it's Miyazaki talking a big game here like I said about how American media is dogshit.
If Miyazaki wants to make breezy, nice looking films that make you feel good and are uncontroversial to the Japanese audience that's fine, but then he should realise the limitations of his own works.
No.22237
>>22236>random image>horrific spacing/formatting straight off reddit. Be honest here are you just ChatGPTing your responses?
No.22238
>>22237>Le Reddit spacingIs that seriously the best you can defend your husubando?
No.22239
>>22236>development of the Panzer V Miyazaki always had a romantic hard on for flying machines, I dont think tanks are a valid comparison
>Maybe we just shouldn't make films that are all about worship of military technology didnt see that one but from what I gathered he criticize its recuperation by the military. Thats still your most valid criticism
>his bread and butter is attractively presented feel-good films did you even ever watch a Miyazaki movie ? lmao what a retarded thing to say
>likes to posture <get success<get interviews<say anti-establishment shit<how does he dare posture and not make his films about how evil imperial japan was ! (not even considering they likely wouldnt even get made if he went that road)also he never ran for a liberal party or made excuses for imperialism and bombings, and he made good fucking movies, so comparing him with zizek is pretty low
>he has to take a certain bit of the blame herewhy does he have to make film on the things YOU choose ? its not how art work
>he was still a businessman who made money off concentration campsbut you make excuses for him and his celebration while rabidly attacking myaziaki for his explicitly anti war movies
>breezy, nice looking films that make you feel good and are uncontroversial to the Japanese audience thats not what his films are though
>>21163so is it good ?
No.22240
>>22236>How would people feel if there was a German film out there that's a 90 minute circlejerk about how 'beautiful' and romantic the development of the Panzer V was>that film probably wouldn't even be allowed to be made under German law. <Oh I'm so clever with my snide remarks teeheeFalse equivalence, that's not what The Wind Rises is about, dolt.
>I looked it up after I watched it years agoTranslation: I looked it up just now
>Your quote doesn't give any evidence of that Denial is not an argument, next.
>They were already in a war when the Zero was being developed but it was with Chink subhumans so it doesn't count I guess. <Let me shift goalposts and bring up concern-trolling nonsequiturs irrelevant to the film or Miyazaki and try to plaster them on "subtly" You really are just assmad, aren't you? Go back to /pol/
>when this is a movie about WW2 war machines that we're talking about, it is actually fucked up No, you're just an infantile moral-fag deliberately misrepresenting the film
>I haven't seen it in years but I remember how disgusted I felt by it >The only people to suffer any adversity in that movie are Japanese ie from the earthquake <Ignores the first part and pulls another whataboutism The film takes place in Japan and is almost exclusively about the life of the man that designed the aircraft and his passion towards aircraft design, the unfortunate situation of which is that only the military-industrial complex would permit him to pursue that passion. The film isn't about the war itself, and its anti-war message comes from the display of how the military twists things around itself.
>The Zero directly kept the war going on longer and therefore contributed to the slaughter of ChinaWow, you really are reaching, aren't you? Are you really this stupid or just arrogant to think that such an fallacious argument would fly?
>Maybe we just shouldn't make films that are all about worship of military technology A) Maybe you should stop being a pussy
B) That's not what the film is about, stop lying.
>I'm not saying thatThat's EXACTLY what you're saying, you callous fuck. In your fervor to hate on Japan using collective guilt logic, you're dehumanizing them and making their struggle and pain and suffering out to be ok because of "le warcrimes". You're only backtracking because I called you out on this sociopathic spiel. Hell you're still trying to shift onto Miyazaki to distract from it
>Miyazaki likes to posture as some great intellectual and anti-establishment figure when his bread and butter is attractively presented feel-good films Neither of these things is true in the slightest. Miyazaki has never postured as being an intellectual nor as a "great anti-establishment figure". PEOPLE call him that because of his opinions, works and actions in life. His films aren't "feel-good" they're just not pointlessly nihilistic schlock, nor are they afraid to tell a specific story he feels like telling. Your utter ignorance as to the meanings of his films and constant bringing up of dramatic barely relevant factors is terminal burger-psychology.
>it's for nationalistic atrocity porn He's never made that, you're outright lying. KYS.
>I feel sorry for everyone that dies in a war that didn't have anything to do with perpetuating it Nice backtracking, as clinical and soulless an apology as expected. Are you a youtube ECeleb by any chance?
>my criticism still standsYour provocation is a shallow fallacy of the like to make Goebbel's proud.
>Miyazaki didn't make movies about the Japanese war on China because either it wouldn't sell Miyazaki has never cared about his films selling, he only cares about making his art. He doesn't want to make a movie about war. Wars may feature in passing, but they're never the focus.
>At least America had enough of a real counterculture and courageous directorsHa… hahahahahahahahAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA… you genuinely believe this… wow.
>Well Schindler did save Jews did he notNo, he didn't, not intentionally, read a fucking book.
>his story is interesting<the movie is effective at what it sets out to do.You filthy hypocrite
>if Miyazaki wants to talk a big game then he should back it upWhat the fuck are you talking about you schizo?
>If anime wants to be taken seriously as a method of social critique Jesus christ, not everything needs to be a social critique. Having deeper themes or touching upon them doesn't mean the story MUST derail to talk about these things. That's literally the most autistic way of viewing story-telling there is.
>I don't think your examples about how militarism is portrayed as bad in the abstract in Miyazaki films are really enough.Because you're politically-obsessed
>It's easy to say war is bad but a lot more difficult to tackle the nationalism of your own country.Irrelevant and not a valid criticism
>it's Miyazaki talking a big game here like I said about how American media is dogshit.Jesus H Christ, finally you explain yourself, and you're still way off the mark because you clearly didn't stop to read what Miyazaki said.
All the movies you mentioned are a reflection of American culture, where shooting and explosions are commonplace, and so is common in film. Miyazaki is stating a fact. He then also states a fact that American films often propagate a dehumanization of the enemy into mindless hordes and brings up Lord of the Rings as a very valid example, because of how it treats Orcs and Goblins as fodder that a viewer will have no sympathy for as they're cut down to pieces. Miyazaki further expands that this is the treatment given to Africans and Asians and that people ignorant of this are idiots (/pol/ for example fits this). So Miyazaki is criticizing a specific type of film and using a specific example. He's not dickmeasuring his films by saying "look at mine" or some shit, so your entire thesis of argument is a strawman to begin with.
>then he should realise the limitations of his own works.<If you write books about adventures or romance, you can't express a critical opinion about a different genre!By that metric you have no metric talking at all since you've created nothing comparable to any of the films mentioned.
No.22242
>>22239>so is it good ?It hasn't released in my area yet, I'm gonna see it soon I posted an update on it
>>22232 >>22238 >Oh no my terrible formatting is called out<better use a gotcha Tiresome.
No.22243
>>22240>>22236>Schindler's list <read a bookJust as an addition
https://aif.ru/society/history/pravednik_sluzhivshiy_tretemu_reyhu_kem_na_samom_dele_byl_oskar_shindler Schindler helped Germany lay groundwork for its invasion of Poland leading a network of 25 spies and prepared an infamous false-flag attack called the “Gleiwitz Incident”. The man was known as "Schindler the Swindler" and was a war profiteer, who was drunk and lost money prior to WW2 beginning.
No.22575
Just finished watching The Boy and the Heron and as always my expectations are blown away. The film is unpredictable as usual, and very strange, often subverting what I anticipated its direction was heading in. It's similar to Spirited Away in many regards, including the mystical, and is both sadder and more lighthearted than I thought it would be. The trailer was masterfully done in revealing nothing yet still providing interest. The underlying themes relating to boys and mothers, and its melancholic ending were obvious, yet at the same time not. In some ways it also reminded me of the first Narnia film as well.
The Voice dub was amazing, and there were some A-list actors like Christian Bale and Mark Hamill (and even a short portion with Willem Dafoe) credited for voice roles, although that's pretty common in Miyazaki's films now that I think of it. The Japanese dub is also good as well, though the English dub is what I saw in theatres. Robert Pattinson was the voice of The Grey Heron and is shockingly good, I didn't recognize him at all.
One thing I'm interested by is the lack of other Gray Herons as earlier information of the film seemed to have a female heron character as well as a male.
The original title of the film is actually 'How Do You Live?' , in Japanese Kimitachi wa do ikiru ka ( 君たちはどう生きるか ) which is also the name of a Japanese coming-of-age novel from 1937, which is referenced within the film itself. Mahito, The Boy, reminded me immediately of Miyazaki; his hair, his eye-brows and head-shape and it makes sense, as much of the visuals were taken from Hayao's childhood experiences, which I discovered later, as I didn't wish to spoil my experience.
No.22581
>>22575I watched it very recently too, I enjoyed it, but I have to admit I found the story unsatisfying, it just didn’t really grab me. The animation was really pretty tho, like really really pretty.
No.22585
>>22581It's amazing how good AI became at animation.
No.22586
>>22585 >It's amazing how good AI became at animation.What the fuck are you on about?
No.22676
miyazaki made a poignant movie about coming to terms with loss and aging, so perhaps me falling asleep in the theater while watching it was thematically appropriate
No.23250
>>10234>workers aren't always the good guysWell, duh, false consciousness exists. I don't actually consider myself a Marxist but this reason for abandoning it is silly and moralistic (one more point goes to Max Stirner and later Marx). There are still problems inherent to the capitalist system that he cannot simply ignore, otherwise I'm not really sure how he read Marx (through the prism of his moral values I assume).
No.23253
>>23252
Yes, I find his movies very commercial. There's nothing inherently wrong with that but when you combine it with his public persona I find it grating
No.23254
Don't want to piss anyone off but I always considered Miyazaki's movies to be too much of what people call "comfy" and "chill." I don't like stuff like The Laid-Back Camp much. Maybe I'm too dense all the time and can't force myself to relax, can't help myself. That's the reason I don't watch much kodomomuke or shoujo or iyashikei or romcoms or slice-of-lifes, I'm just too much of a grumpy old man who is unable to enjoy nice things (yeah, I'm the opposite of an average anime enjoyer).
Princess Mononoke and Porco Rosso seem kinda interesting though.
No.23255
>>23253>I find his movies very commercialI didn't mean "commercial." I'm sure Mr. Miyazaki genuinely likes what he's doing. I'm just not that kind of person who's into the overall feel of his works, they're like Disney fairytales and I tend to shy away from fairytales and other softer stuff like that.
No.23257
>>23254>I'm just too much of a grumpy old man who is unable to enjoy nice thingsSame here.
No.23266
>>23254To be honest, Porco and Mononoke are closer to what his movies are actually about than people on the internet really seem to realize.
Miyazaki has kind of become the Wes Anderson of anime - his style has been meme'd and caricatured by people who haven't really engaged his work and probably haven't even seen much of his stuff. Most people act like all of his movies are just wholesome, comfy slice of life - when really, only Totoro and Kiki's Delivery Service are really consistenty like that.
Miyazaki's movies certainly have a pastoral vibe and have extended "cozy" sequences, but everyone forgets that those scenes are often followed by imagery of either mass destruction and violence or weird, fucked-up organic corruption. Everyone acts like Totoro is emblematic of the man's filmography, while forgetting that this is the same guy who made Porco Rosso, Castle in the Sky, Nausicaa, The Boy and the Heron and Princess Mononoke, all works that have either heavy themes, extended sequences of apocalyptic or unsettling imagery - hell, we're talking about the guy who got his start directing Lupin the Third
Miyazaki ain't no wholesome director. There's a real darkness in his work that the internet keeps whitewashing thanks to cinematically illiterate hipster-weebs
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