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File: 1622002292594.jpg (69.5 KB, 512x288, you will never ever.jpg)

 No.7763

I'm a way too old otaku who's always been into a lot of underground Japanese subculture shit thanks to learning the language but even I have to be amazed at the sort of shallow orientalism that's going on on imageboards, like cumming at sakura trees, larping as an imperialist or making Japan seem as the last trad ethnostate (it really isn't), or more recently and what prompted me to make this thread, someone posting a picture of their room with a huge ass poster of Tokyo's subway map. Like really? What's the appeal of that? Sure, he might have been a train otaku, but nothing else in the picture indicated that.

To sum it up, fuck orientalism.
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 No.7764

i love otaku culture especially the doujin side of it but japan is a really shitty country
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 No.7765

Every time I hear about some otaku traveling to japan or moving over to japan I cringe so hard.
The japanese don't want you, don't go there, it's not like in your animays
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 No.7766

I only really see rightoids do this. Cherry blossoms are quite pretty though nothing wrong with liking them.
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 No.7767

File: 1622003175205.jpg (201.83 KB, 740x693, dmt.jpg)

>>7765
Not even to Comiket?
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 No.7768

These years I've begun to understand the sentiment behind that "x, but in Japan" soyjak garbage.
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 No.7769

I don't see what's "orientalist" about traveling there for an event because you're a really big fan of something that happens to be exclusive to Japan.
>someone posting a picture of their room with a huge ass poster of Tokyo's subway map
That's definitely not unique to weebs and Japan, it just means they really wish they lived there. I'd say it's way more acceptable than cumming at a cherry tree.
But yes, Japan fetishism is insane and usually based on their pop culture and media which is consumerist as fuck.
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 No.7770

Well, Japan is extremely conservative and you could argue it's a sort ethnostate.
>>7764
Otaku culture is basically just simping for bishoujos and otakus are anti-feminist right wingers most of the time.
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 No.7771

>>7763
I hate orientalism, Japan worship is one of the causes to radicalised me to become a leftist.
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 No.7774

Don't forget muh Japanese women are better than western women because they aren't "pozzed" or something
Honestly weebs are part of the reason I am distancing myself from otaku media. I also don't romantize otaku ""subcultures"" anymore and can understand that they are purely based on consoomerism, escapism and conservatism.
I do watch anime or play indie Japanese games now and then, but I honestly don't wanna interact with weebs or otaku in general.
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 No.7775

Cherry blossoms are extremely beautiful good thing I have that in my own country I even have a cherry tree in my garden
Otherwise I have very mixed feelings towards Japan
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 No.7776

>>7771
Japan? Not the oppressed workers of the world? Not imperialism? Not the endless wars fueled by the military-industrial complex?
Alright.
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 No.7777

number god
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 No.7778

>>7769
>Japan fetishism is insane and usually based on their pop culture and media which is consumerist as fuck
I think enjoying their [PRODUCTS] is better than liking their "national" "culture" actually.
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 No.7781

Where did that misconception of Japan being trad come from? They're just as degenerate as Americans and just as spergy. They have traditions that are only traditions of habit now it seems. They're an isolated nation we must remember.
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 No.7783

>>7781
Its probably the same kind of people projecting their own politics on germany
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 No.7784

>>7781
No, nips are only degenerate in their media.
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 No.7785

日本語 is 20x easier than any other eastern language
And its 20x more 可愛い!!!
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 No.7786

>>7785
This, but unironically.
>>7781
I think it's funny because Japan's values are the exact opposite of American's ones.
>One of the strictiest gun laws in the world
>Nanny state
>Not individualist at all
>Merit doesn't really matter
>Religion is a private matter instead of being shoved down your throat
>Public shaming keeps freedom of speech in check
>No freedom to criticize the government
And so on, but looks like burgers are willing to trade their "values" in exchange of having less dark skinned individuals around them.
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 No.7787

>>7784
>jap fetishizer
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 No.7788

File: 1622048511422.jpeg (52.62 KB, 645x770, F1041882-E170-4C54-8176-5….jpeg)

>>7786
>well you see, the japs are submissive and they are well behaved and cultured and maintain their traditions so they don’t need guns to defend themselves
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 No.7789

>>7786
>nanny state
What? It's a neoliberal shithole.
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 No.7790

>>7789
The absolute state of this retard
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 No.7791

>>7788
Oh I can definitely see them saying something like this.
>>7789
I'm not a native English speaker so our definition of nanny state might be different. What I meant to say is that life in Japan is very…regulated. You need to put garbage out at a certain hour in a certain place or you might get fined. Metro stations are filled with panels that tell you to turn off your phone near seats for disabled and elderly people, to pay attention to your rucksacks and bags because they might inconvenience others (I've seen one with a tragic drawing of a mother and a kid separated by a man wearing a rucksack) and so on. There are all kinds of bullshit rules and regulations, but of course japanese people don't always follow them despite what right-wingers might tell you about this mythical race of creatures incapable of thinking for themselves.
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 No.7792

File: 1622051861756.jpg (140.3 KB, 2096x924, 16261.jpg)

>>7791
>but of course japanese people don't always follow them
You can find exceptions basically in everything everywhere but that doesn't change your interpretation of the general tendencies. Japanese people used to be cool and rebellious back in the day, but modern nips are effectively domesticated and brainwashed by their ideological state apparatus. There's a reason why leftism is a pretty fringe thing in Japan. This is very much evident in anime or manga too. Japan's definitely not like some rightoid's wet dream, but it also lacks people and movements that want to change the system for the better along progressive leftist lines. Japan's just filled with confused youth who aren't critically well-equipped to denigrate the current system because no one in Japan guides them towards leftist philosophies. So all they do is rationalize their just anxieties as personality flaws and try to "come of age", which basically means to fit in and look the part.
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 No.7793

>>7792
This. They probably have some nationalists, and especially a party or parties of nationalists but they’re no threat or present any movement. There are no movements in Japan it seems. Like you said, they’re a domesticated people’s and so they kind live their lives as automatons(not suggesting they don’t have a sense of independence) who don’t really have any political wants or needs, if anything Japan is a centrist wet dream. I think this is what rightoids are attracted to, the mindnumbing monotony of just working without complaint and complete subservience not just to companies but the state. Irony indeed.
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 No.7796

>>7763
Yeah, the Orientalism does suck. Why do so many youth these days prefer the East though, it must be asked? It's not a bad thing obviously, but it's something to wonder about, is it because the cultural products there are "better", or is it just because of this sort of exoticization of "over there"? Or is this exaggerated all out of proportion because otaku are yet to exit niche subculture even now?

>>7786
Isn't DPRK, obviously, Korean easier though? For the most part the written Korean language currently used doesn't have the requirement to memorize a thousand characters like Chinese and Japanese do.

>>7778
Call this perhaps Nazbol, but there is something tragic about how Japanese culture has been majorly cucked by modernity and imperialism, sort of like how the Korean used in the DPRK and the southern entity have become at times unintelligible to each other, so some say. That's probably for the better though, that traditional Japanese culture has been demystified to an extent. Anime and similar is cool, nevertheless.
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 No.7797

>>7792
>>7793
You aren't wrong but Japanese do want change, they just don't think things will get better so they opt for stability, in other words, their ideology could be simply summed up as "better the devil you know".
Outside of electoralist bullshit there's absolutely nothing thanks to the failures of badass but retarded past revolutionary movements.
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 No.7799

>>7796
>but there is something tragic about how Japanese culture has been majorly cucked by modernity and imperialism
I mean they wholesale rejected their culture in a feverish drive to modernize themselves as fast as possible during meiji era.
<Nevertheless, after the Meiji Restoration of 1868, governmental policies of modernization and westernization dictated a wholesale rejection of the preceding feudal era. Even the best elements of Edo-period culture were deemed outdated and vulgar and were thought to require prompt and thorough extirpation.
<When, for example, a school of fine arts was founded in Tokyo’s Ueno Park during the Meiji period, the Japanese government established a department of Western music but made no provisions for the study of traditional Japanese music. Today hardly anyone would agree with this policy,but it took many years before Japanese traditional music began to be regarded as equal in value to Western music. And it was not until after World War II that Japanese music was made part of the official public school curriculum.

>For the most part the written Korean language currently used doesn't have the requirement to memorize a thousand characters like Chinese and Japanese do.

When nips decided to modernize themselves, they faced with the problem of how to standardise and develop their language to better accommodate western concepts and words. They had to create a shitton of words to facilitate translation of western knowledge. But the issue was whether to coin these new words in their native language or Chinese language. Without much debate with the proponents of wago(native vocab), the meiji state basically decided to create new words in kango(chinese words). Their justification was that the native Japanese language is pretty inferior and inefficient to create words. They were also posed with the problem of examining and codifying native word coining procedures, which they didn't wanna bother with. I think this was probably because meiji government was dominated by aristocratic warrior elites from edo who basically had a penchant for Chinese vocab due to their specific kind of education.
In the end, kango wasn't just used to officially coin words, but they replaced a lot of equivalent wago in the process. Obscure kango like "kansha" that not many people used before suddenly became commonly used words thanks to compulsory education. It was basically the era of kangofication of Japanese. Just to be sure, I am not saying kango wasn't used before meiji and I'm not claiming there weren't high class elites or buddhist scholars who were obsessed with kango even before this.
Now the debate surrounding kanji removal is intrinsically tied to how prominent kango vocab is in modern Japanese. Without kanji they can't create new words. Without kanji most of technical vocabulary will become extremely hard to remember even if you exclude commonly used kango.
There were a lot of attempts to create new writing system in Japan but none succeeded(for example, http://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/942751)
Some group translated a western chemistry textbook in pure hiragana as a way to test the word coining power of wago. The book's called monowari no hashigo(ものわりのはしご). But this was like the only instance from meiji era where someone tried to do something with wago.
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 No.7800

>>7796
>Isn't DPRK, obviously, Korean easier though? For the most part the written Korean language currently used doesn't have the requirement to memorize a thousand characters like Chinese and Japanese do.
Obviously it's easier to learn the korean sillabary than chinese characters, but I think Korean is one of the most awful sounding languages in the world.
>>7797
They took to extreme the maxim "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" and worship the status quo, no matter how bad it is. Sometimes I wonder if they realize they have the potential to make big changes: after all, they went from feudal to capitalist in a few years.
>>7799
>I mean they wholesale rejected their culture in a feverish drive to modernize themselves as fast as possible during meiji era.
Another big example of this is the creation of state shinto. Before that shinto and buddhism were so intertwined it was to distinguish what was shinto and what was buddhist, given how many shinto sanctuaries and buddhist temples were built near each other and were supposed to "help" each other. For example, the monks prayed to make the kami residing in the sanctuary attached to their temple to convert it to buddhism.
Then the meiji government made up state shinto, forced the separation of buddhism and shinto and uniformed shinto practices throughout the country, this way countless of actually traditional shinto practises got lost forever.
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 No.7804

>>7797
>>7800
> their ideology could be simply summed up as "better the devil you know".
> They took to extreme the maxim "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" and worship the status quo, no matter how bad it is.
lol this is literally the Russian attitude that keeps Putin at place
Russians even have the same performative traditionalism
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 No.7807

There's nothing special about the Japanese. Stop fetishizing them.
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 No.7808

>>7807
You couldn't even read the title of the thread, huh?
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 No.7810

>>7804
And how do you think Abe kept winning despite the fact that no one liked the idea of reforming the constitution and the army?
Same thing, they saw no alternatives to Abe and LDP because the opposition is crap and JCP is too scary. Despite his landslide victories, Abe couldn't rewrite the constitution because he didn't want to upset the status quo: people, even his voters, didn't want it.
You can also see this in manga and anime (mostly modern): whenever a character has a conflict with society or with authority, either they end up embracing the status quo and the fact that authorities are often right or they become a villain or suffer from a tragic end.
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 No.7813

I sometimes wonder if the way life in feudal Japan is often portrayed is accurate or if it's more a product of modern Japan's Stockholm Syndrome outlook on society.
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 No.7814

>>7813
Elaborate.
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 No.7816

>>7814
Tends to be very nihilistic and takes "the nail which sticks out gets hammered down" to the next level.
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 No.7817

>>7816
Japanese people tend to be fatalistic, but they also have a "never give up" attitude, which sounds good but it can also be toxic sometimes.
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 No.7921

>>7764
I'm the opposite.
God help me.
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 No.7923

>>7921
You like Japan but hate anime?
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 No.7929

>>7923
Anime is ok. I just hate otaku culture. It's just cartoons man.
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 No.7930

>>7929
Pleb.
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 No.7932

>>7929
Understandable.
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 No.7943

>>7930
Ok "communist"
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 No.7983

>>7943
wdhmbt
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 No.8166

I didn't know weebs cared about cherry blossoms. They are planted all over the place in my state so I never thought about it.

>>7796
Memorizing kanji isn't that bad. Both Japanese and Korean are a pain in the ass to learn because of the grammar more than anything. Chinese is actually considered the easiest of the three because their grammar is fairly straightforward for English speakers.

>>7929
I like otaku culture, but more as something to find friends and talk about. If it weren't otaku shit I'm sure I'd be into sports or some kind of western nerd subculture.
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 No.8176

>>8166
>Memorizing kanji isn't that bad. Both Japanese and Korean are a pain in the ass to learn because of the grammar more than anything.
Gotta agree with this. It's strange to say, but kanji aren't the hardest part of Japanese.
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 No.8380

>>8166
>because of the grammar more than anything
Depends on your native language. Grammar was the easiest and the most intuitive part of Japanese for me because of its extremely similarity with my native language.
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 No.8933

Yeah, certainly, the grammar is somewhat difficult at first if it isn't a familiar style, but it can be said with a grammar rule, unlike with kanji, one only has to learn it and few more to use in a fairly large variety of situations, whereas kanji is not as "difficult" to pick up, especially if one has studied similar languages, but requires the quantity learned to be more for it to be of practical use. Otherwise, it's probably correct to say the difficulty of kanji is often overstated.
This post probably came out somewhat incoherently, but basically the grammar is quite fun to learn sometimes, more than kanji, which involves more tedious work.

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