/dead/ - Post-Left

I still have no idea what bordigism is, it's councilism but the proletariat will willingly submit themselves to this one meta party once they reach a high enough consciousness rather than act autonomously through councils?

leftcoms are a cancer and should all be sent to a reeducation camp

>>6387
Those who adhere to the ideas of the ICP are not councilist, as they still support unions. This can be illustrated with the (many) ICP('s) working with trade unions across their international branches. The meta party stuff you talk about, are you talking about the historical and formal party theory that they believe in?

Those who adhere to the ideas of Onorato Damen/ of the ICT are a lot more sympathetic to Council Communism, as they see the unions as mediators and suggest that ICT members should join these unions in order for them to create revolutionary groups which will break away from the unions and form a workers' council.

>>6389 (me)
However, both are still Leninist (forgot to finish my post).

>>6390
>However, [ICP and ICT] are still Leninist
How would you justify your claim in regards to the latter? From what I've seen they almost systematically replace Leninism with Luxemburgism / dutch-german leftcom influence. Isn't this what the whole falling out between Damen and Bordiga was about? It seems to entire hinge on (if I'm not missing something) Damenites believing Luxemburg was right vs Lenin on multiple areas and Bordigists, completely disagreeing, having to split, leading to PCInt (Damen) and ICP (Bordiga) in the 50s.

Left communism is too optimistic.

>>6392
The split between Damen and Bordiga was due to how they preferred to organize the party (with Damen wanting to retain Democratic Centralism while Bordiga wanted to abolish the voting system within the party, creating Organic Centralism) and which terms they used (e.g. Damen and co. defined the Soviet state as State Capitalist while Bordiga defined it as State Industrialist). Another difference between Damnites and Bordigists is the subject concerning the historical and formal party, a theory that had come up from the ICP which Damenites reject.

Here are some articles by Damen outlining why they split:
https://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2011-01-21/amadeo-bordiga-beyond-the-myth-and-the-rhetoric-0
https://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2014-10-13/you-can%E2%80%99t-build-the-party-playing-with-paradoxes

>>6389
I would like to correct my statement concerning the ICT's stance concerning unions as I have gottenit wrong due to fault memory. Damen, in "You Can’t Build the Party Playing with Paradoxes," states that:

"To this end the "Italian Left" aims to create with the permanent organisation of "factory groups", even in the midst of enormous difficulties, as training centres for ideological and political dissemination which become in fact vehicles for slogans critical of the unions. Factory groups solve the problem of contact with workers in the areas which are socially and politically the most sensitive to party propaganda, a prime and indispensable condition for a policy of recruiting new worker cadres on the basis of active militancy and revolutionary struggle."

Thus they do not suggest that ICT members infiltrate the unions and create workers' councils unlike what I said.