The beginnings of our new leftypol project Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:35 No. 3780 [Last 50 Posts]
Hello everyone, we have received the results of our project proposal topic, and I'm delighted to announce that we are teaming up with 'leftypedia' to deliver our planned 'argument/talking point resource' idea. In case you don't know, leftypedia is the current version of the old abandoned 'marxistpedia' which was a project started by leftypol users back in the day, so I think this is sort of like a homecoming in a way.
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Main_Page Anyway, if you have a look at the leftypedia site you might be able to tell that they have a much more formal and 'encyclopedic' tone than what we're planning, just like wikipedia, but the admin is going to create a separate 'category' for our new content that will be called something like 'rhetoric: topic' rather than just 'topic', this will also feature on the frontpage much like the encyclopedic content. As a tenplate, I'd like you to feast your eyes on these pages which someone on leftypedia already made (albeit only on their personal userspace for now).
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/User:Anarcho-Bolshevik/compendium I'd like to ask if anyone can come up with a slightly more catchy name for our new section than 'rhetoric', cause that sounds a bit cumbersome to me even though I came up with it, so yeah, open to suggestions.
So, since that isn't implemented yet, I'd like you all to try familiarise yourselves with the site for now, maybe take a look at the articles that are already there and improve some of them if you feel able. Unfortunately the site currently has only edit by approval so you will have to wait for any changes you make to be approved, this is because of a persistent spambot problem and I hope that we will be able to work out something to change this to normal editing as on wikipedia and the like, please just bear with it for now.
If you have an answer to a 'common question', or you have an effortpost you'd like to archive and save, then please post it in this topic for now so that we can work on it together until we can figure out how to categorise our new section of the site.
Thanks for your attention!
EDIT: I've now got admin permissions on leftypedia, so I can create pages and approve edits directly. If you want to use the site I recommend you create a user account, which I can then approve once you make a productive edit (to distinguish from spambots), then you won't have to wait for approval anymore and can create articles yourself. Or, just ask me and I can create an article for you if you're desperate to make one as your first edit. Thanks guys, I hope we can make this project cool together!
t. Caballo
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:36 No. 3784
>>3783 Yes, sorry, that's kind of what I meant, please do that.
Now that I think of it, perhaps as well as a 'rhetoric' category, we could have some kind of 'archive' category for just general posts on a topic that aren't exactly an argument on a common topic? Like say an anon makes a really insightful and interesting post about trains, that could go in the 'archive' section under 'trains' and link to, 'public transport, mass transit, transportation, public utilities', etc.
I haven't agreed that with the site owner yet though so I'd need to talk to him about it, but now yes feel free to post that stuff.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:36 No. 3787
There's this post in
>>>/hobby/9346 that is fucking great.
Here's the post:
It's not that it's easier to imagine the end of the world than to imagine the end of capitalism. The end of the world is indeed the end of capitalism. For many people the only way to imagine the end of capitalism is to imagine the end of the world. Post-apocalyptic media usually doesn't depict people rebuilding after the apocalypse, so much as fighting over the scraps left over. The conceit is that without the current system everything descends into chaos. Supposedly, if we ditch capitalism we will look back upon the current times fondly as the antediluvian golden age.
This kind of fiction is what some call "nostalgia for the present." Unlike the supposed role of dystopian fiction as warning or satirical, the point of disaster/apocalypse porn is to make us feel like things aren't so bad after all. What little good exists in these world is not built or discovered, but salvaged from the present. As commodities without capitalist production, these things are an ephemeral reminder of the supposedly great past that has been lost by human folly. They will all disappear eventually, and the best the characters in these settings can do is hold onto these artifacts for as long as possible. You hardly ever see anyone building new things, beyond jury-rigging some scraps.
But why shouldn't people in the post-apocalypse build anything? Sure, in a disaster the supply chain will break down in the short term, but it's not like it's impossible to reconnect the raw materials and the processing centers. And with a sudden halt in manufacturing there would be huge piles of materials at all stages of production just lying around waiting to be used. It's not exactly logical, but do you think bourgeois film studios and other gatekeepers of mass media are going to allow a story where the workers just start using the means of production of their own accord? That would mean that the capitalist class are totally unnecessary!
The illogical nature of the standard post-apocalypse extends even farther than this, to a truly absurd degree. It's unusual in, for instance, a zombie apocalypse that somebody builds a wall or a fence to keep the zombies out. This would be a practical solution generally speaking, but where it does show up (as the writers have more recently become aware of the silliness), it's guaranteed to fail. Not just for "dramatic effect" (you can find other sources of drama besides humans failing to deal with the situation), but because in these kinds of stories rebuilding effectively simply isn't allowed. It's not part of the genre. The nature of the story is that humans are necessarily reduced to wanderers, hunter-gatherers killing each other and salvaging what little is left of the old world. When capitalist production stops, building new things stops too. And worse, previously built things often stop working. It's a very common trope in apocalyptic fiction where things break constantly. Even things that logically should not break. Even very shortly after society breaks down. There's no reason that cars would just stop working a couple of months into the apocalypse. There's no reason buildings would start falling apart within a couple of years. But the point of these stories is that if the world comes to a stop, it's all over. If these things didn't immediately start falling apart it would undermine the vision being created. If buildings just stood on their own (like they always did) and the world kept turning without the status quo continuing, that makes people ask questions. Just look at how people have responded to the corona virus impacting the economy. Reality is being clarified, illusions dispelled. In order for the ideology of dependence to be conveyed, a massive dose of unreality must be injected. And of course it does. The ideology is ridiculous, so too is its rationalization.
The sheer volume of this kind of fiction should raise eyebrows, and so should its uniformity. This is the only vision of the future we are supposed to have, other than things continuing essentially as they are. The only deviation we are supposed to imagine is disaster, and we are supposed to imagine it often. We are supposed to be too afraid of the alternative to seriously consider it. This is why not just post-apocalyptic fiction, but sci-fi, fantasy, anything not set in the present has developed the tendency to be relentlessly bleak. Where we experience hope it's supposed to be in some version of the present, even if it's a heightened one like the superhero movies or a near future where the basic model hasn't changed. If people feel hopeful looking at any alternative to this world, they might develop some desire to change things. Post-apocalyptic fiction takes this illogic all the way to its conclusion, saying that if things change everything will go to shit and you will long for the world as it is now. This is the kind of mentality used by domestic abusers to keep people in line too: make people fear leaving the situation and grow dependent upon and comfortable with their abuse.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:37 No. 3791
>>3789 A N G L O D E T E C T E D
C O M M E N C I N G P U R G E
P R O T O C O L
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:37 No. 3793
>>3780 >I'd like to ask if anyone can come up with a slightly more catchy name for our new section than 'rhetoric', cause that sounds a bit cumbersome to me even though I came up with it, so yeah, open to suggestions. spitballing here:
<own zone
<dunk tank
<rebuke record
<counterpoint compendium
<antithesis alley
<contradiction crossing
<dogma terminal
<articulation station
<discourse concourse
or you could just call it "arguments" and when a rightoid accuses you of having none you can just link them the entire category
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:37 No. 3795
>>3780 Is there anyway for article narration to be implemented on the site?
I'd be open to recording.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:37 No. 3801
>>3780 bruh this is awesome holy shit!
I have finals now, but will definitely try contributing to this site, I made a huge list of notes when reading Jason Hickel and other books discussing how capitalism hasn't decreased poverty.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:38 No. 3807
How about putting debunks of right-wing youtubers in their specific page.>Their purpose on the capitalist web. >Controversies. >Videos.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:39 No. 3816
Some tips from a former admin of a few fan wikis:
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:39 No. 3818
>>3817 >Abandoning something and deleting it in a fit of rage are two different things. They really aren't lol.
Are you the old admin? Be honest now.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:39 No. 3819
>>3817 >>3818 Just don't delete your website in a fit of rage lol
God it's a good thing you never ran any of the leftypol discords. That shit happened constantly.
(The leftypedia guy tells a different story btw)
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:39 No. 3823
>>3821 >You know you can still do that if you want, though, right? I don't want to.
>>3822 >Bullshit, before the leftypedia anon mirrored his site the owner had already disappeared and left the wiki to be being overrun with spambots The owner of Marxistpedia promoted the leftypol anon (CyberSynGang) in order to deal with spam. That was his job. The leftypol anon decided to give up on Marxistpedia like 2 months later even though the spam accounts were manageable and we were gaining traction.
>And another reason was that marxistpedia had a leftcom bias and the guy didn't want other ideologies contributing to the site. Completely false. The MLs from leftypol complained about the anti-Stalinist stance on the site and the owner agreed to allow other perspectives. In the end it made no difference since the MLs barely contributed anything.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:40 No. 3826
>>3825 i just pinged it and
the websites works for me
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:40 No. 3829
taking an immediate looks, I'm not a fan of how some of the "refutation" pages are formated, for example just looking at
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/User:Anarcho-Bolshevik/compendium/section_12 I think it could use a few more subtitles that focus on common, specific arguments rather than writing one whole essay on the extent at which socialism can work. I don't see a page like that in its current state enlightening any minds.
I understand it's a wikipedia and anyone can contribute to it, but trying to reformat someone else's essay like that requires a ton of work as opposed to just starting with that format from scratch.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:41 No. 3836
>>3833 https://medium.com/@buffsoldier_96/a-marxist-defence-of-consumerism-c307f9186921 This is a very good article because it exposes the critical theorists for being proponents of austerity.
It does speak of transforming capitalist consumerism into a socialist one, it doesn't actually describe how this works.
I think capitalist consumerism is too passive, the consumer commodities don't actually empower people to do stuff with it.
The article correctly points out that the expectation of the masses to have a life of plenty should be fostered precisely because capitalism cannot deliver one it. I do think that the impulse for frugality as a virtue can be instrumentalised, though because it can be used to against luxury consumption (stuff only the capitalist class can afford). So that the position is that you argue for increasing material wealth of the masses and reduce the material wealth of the elites. When a proletarian consumes it virtuous and civilised but when the rulers do it's degenerate and a vice.
We still have to argue for fixing the climate issue, and here we have to point out that the main problem is corporation retaining control over production consider that the technology for producing far more sustainable consumer goods do exists, and the reason this isn't being realises is private control over production, so that the more control is remove from private corporations the more higher the potential for sustainability.
We have to move away from the corporate model that wants to turn commodities into services because ultimately that means that the people that have show the least concern for ecology have to give up the most control.
There is sort of a claim that if corporations were to retain ownership over goods and only rented them out to people as a service that would enable them to finally produce sustainable consumption, but in reality it will do the exact opposite, they would still try to reduce cost in short term calculation to max out short term profits and by removing the interest of the consumer to have a product that at least lasts a few years because "who cares if it's a rental-object", there would be dramatic acceleration of wasteful production and shortening of product life-span.
Where i don't agree with the article that is the defence of marketing producing desires for people. First desire is a negative emotion it's a strong lack, and it's basically attacking the psychological well being of people. I don't think we can just use the capitalist way of producing wants and needs, we have to transform advertisement from advocating for fashionable consumption to rational consumption. Instead of yanking psychological buttons of lower instincts, we should go towards appealing to higher cognition. Basically talk to the more recently evolved part of the human brain that reasons. Marketing should advocate products on the basis of their objective qualities. Buy this product because it will make your life easer, or Buy this product because it will enhance your capacity to do stuff and so on…
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:41 No. 3842
BTW, could spanish militarymen killed because of corruption inside the francoist/modern spanish army count as victims of capitalism?>Spain pays NAMSA, an OTAN company. >In turn, NAMSA outsorces to Chapman Freeborn. >This one, in turn, outsorces to Volga-Dnepr, based on Ireland. >This one, in turn, outsorces to Adriyatik ltd, based on Turkey. >And finally, this one outsorces to JTR, based on Lebanon. >First generation, 31 out of 141 dies, a 21,9% mortality rate. >Second generation, 27 out of 135 dies, a 20% mortality rate. >Third Generation, 11 out of 70 dies, a 15,7% of mortality rate. >Fifth generation, 11 out of 54 dies, a 20.3% mortality rate. >9th generation, 13 out of 79 dies, a 16,4% mortality rate >13th generation, 14 out of 84 dies, a 16.6% mortality rate. >29 out of the 143 polish airmen were killed during the battle of Britain, having a mortality rate of 20,2% >First generation, 31 out of 141 dies, a 21,9% mortality rate.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:42 No. 3845
>>3842 where can I buy the book?
t.otro manolo
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:42 No. 3846
>>3845 amazon supongo.
Podría ponerme a escribirlo en office como un monje del siglo nueve pero.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:42 No. 3849
>>3780 First of all, fantastic - I've been waiting for basically this project for a good while. Will be signing up and looking to contribute stuff ASAP. On some other points:
>>3786 >obscure definitions, internet-specific happenings, the building of INFOGRAPHICS The whole post, but many times -this-. Internet happenings in particular give us the clearest opportunity to carve out a niche in many areas that projects like Wikipedia will avoid, not to mention, give us the chance at providing the earliest (and thus, domineering) narratives on what could be developing events or otherwise overlooked topics. Perhaps there should be a whole 'category' for it, even.
>>3793 >or you could just call it "arguments" and when a rightoid accuses you of having none you can just link them the entire category Now that is meme potential anon. Easy enough for anyone to digest, hits the rightists back with their own language.
>>3804 1) Not sell out
>>3807 >How about putting debunks of right-wing youtubers in their specific page. 100% yes, Best idea yet.
Concise, pithy sections because we know PragerU fans and their types don't tend to read a lot. Maybe a shortened form of a debunking at the top, followed by a list of instances in which they have used a particular argument (with a longer debunking underneath those), and maybe a list of referenced self-contradictions too. I want to see this for every single rightist YouTuber damnit.
>>3816 From what I scanned of a few articles (e.g. Marx), there seems to have been a lot of copying over from WP's articles. To go with what I said above on creating a niche, I think it would be wise to create a compendium that people feel they can't really get elsewhere, so creating some writings or adopting a perspective alternate to the mainstream of WP's views would probably go a long way in helping to generate this sense of distinction that would very much help us for wider adoption.
Good idea re:factional editing, too.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:42 No. 3850
>>3780 Hiya guys, I have been copying over anarcho-bolshevik's works to the general rhetoric category for general use and editing. Here is the homepage for the rhetoric section:
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric I haven't changed any of the text of the actual articles yet, though I may go into them and try my hand at improvement. Please follow the guidelines, if you want to cut half of the text out and rewrite the rest, it may be better to create a new article to present your alternate take.
Oh, well, new users can't make articles, so, just ask me to make you a new page and edit it in word in the meantime, I guess.
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric:Not_Everyone_Is_The_Same In the meantime does anyone have a better quality version of this image?
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:43 No. 3854
>>3853 TBH you don't really need to approach this from a 'theory' perspective, you don't even need to use sources in the rhetoric section, just pick your favourite (or least favourite) anticommie argument and have a crack at it.
The one that immediately comes to mind which isn't on there yet is I guess 'normal people are too dumb to manage businesses, that's why class is needed'.
>>3851 That's a big topic, sounds like a bit of a toughie, I guess it would involve going back to say how the founding of America is so interlinked with and economically motivated by slavery.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:43 No. 3856
>>3851 0. Liberals believe legal equality is equality.
1. Blacks were imported to america as the lowest class.
2. They eventually became legally equal but as the (effective) totality of them were starting from scratch they pooled up at the bottom of society.
3. This caused them to tend towards the kinds of things the bottom of a society tends towards.
4. Liberals, now believing them equal, needed an explanation for this failure - for in liberal idealism that legal equality should constitute 'equal opportunity', as that's what capitalism is justified with. One kind of liberal decided the blacks must be morally inferior and that explains their poor performance, another kind of liberal decided the blacks must be being held down by some non economic force which must be moral inferiority of some other parts of society.
5. Both of these kinds of liberals trying to work their brand of solution to this problem into society over time has resulted in the present situation, which can be described as systemic racism, because both sides believe the fundamental problem is based on race.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:44 No. 3861
>>3856 >>3851 Does anybody have that comic about capitalism not being racist or sexist because capitalism is simply capitalism and doesn't take on inherit "national attributes".
It was Marx walking with some kid.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:46 No. 3878
Giving contributions to the wiki and helping sort the 'tagme''s on the
https://leftypics.booru.org should be a collective [b]top priority[/b] for a little while for oldfags on here.
I'm gonna start helping out.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:47 No. 3882
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Anarchism anarchism is inherently left wing and right wing anarchism is gibberish
someone please fix this page. i can't do it now
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:49 No. 3897
This thread should be on
>>>/hobby/ >>>/tech/ or
>>>/edu/ since its more of a collaborative project than an internet discussion
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:49 No. 3900
>>3898 True, but again this isn't the first time reddit has been hunting communist subreddits
>>3899 >dead boards Suuure bud
>glowing for free Shut up glowstick.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:49 No. 3902
Reminding everyone that waybackarchive pages can be archived in archive.is
Example:
http://archive.is/dhv17 Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:49 No. 3904
>>3903 Adapt some of its ideas then, rather than the code if that's an issue.
Do you really run a computer with no proprietary software?
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:50 No. 3918
>>3917 Would it be
even easier if I email the NSA a video of me doing it?
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:52 No. 3937
>>3935 The feds could pick up on it and start doing some targeting of some sort. Otherwise, let's do something like what
>>3924 suggested.
>>3936 Is it active? Secure?
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:52 No. 3938
>>3937 >The feds could pick up on it and start doing some targeting of some sort How would they pick up on it? What do you mean?
The OPSEC is just something someone wrote a while back and reposted in a pdf format. Take the text, tweak it (edit/replace words or phrases) and use it.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:52 No. 3942
>>3940 wtf i hate wikipedia now
i think i will stop using the internet now too comrate, since it was developed from capitalist ARPANET ;)
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:52 No. 3945
>>3944 >(5) Wikipedia articles with inaccuracies on them. The article on Stalin, Beria, the CIA, the KGB, Nazino etc. etc.
>make an argument The argument has long since been made wikifag. Wikipedia is an unreliably sourced rubbish bin owned and moderated by, primarily, non-leftist, biased random nobodies. They run the place like a fucking chan and anyone can edit almost any article. The only articles worth shit are STEM related and even they are usually too bloated to be used by anyone except those who already understand/know the content in the first place. Any recent historiography or politics there is shite.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:52 No. 3946
>>3945 >>(5) Wikipedia articles with inaccuracies on them. The article on Stalin, Beria, the CIA, the KGB, Nazino etc. etc.
LOL wiki-fag BTFO
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:52 No. 3950
>>3949 Exactly, and many pages, particularly the more important ones, have different kinds of specialized software that is run by several people watching a single page. Bad-faith edits are often reverted in moments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_anti-vandal_bots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_counter-vandalism_tools Wikipedia does have a problem with readability though. Way too often the definitions and descriptions of things leave many questions to the audience, but that goes for almost any resource. That is, however, something we can be mindful of on Leftypedia.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:53 No. 3952
>>3951 That is not true, largely because of something called NPOV. So long as you have credible sources you are welcome to add differing views on a subject, so long as you don't claim them to be the single truth when there's controversy over something. From the article on the Holodomor for instance:
>Whether the Holodomor was genocide is still the subject of academic debate, as are the causes of the famine and intentionality of the deaths. Some scholars believe that the famine was planned by Joseph Stalin to eliminate a Ukrainian independence movement. While some historians dispute its characterization as a genocide. Then there's the article on Stalin, which does indeed call him cruel and vindictive and such, however does also have this in the same section to counteract it:
>although he was capable of acts of kindness to strangers and:
>Other historians linked his brutality not to any personality trait, but to his unwavering commitment to the survival of the Soviet Union and the international Marxist–Leninist cause. Honestly I'm not sure to what extent he could be characterized as cruel and all, but it can't that far from reality in any case. Though of course a proper leftist bias is necessary at times, Wikipedia isn't nearly that bad as some may think for being centrist. Even in the lede it mentions what some people merely consider him to be, rather than asserting that he was "evil" or whatever:
>Conversely, his totalitarian government has been widely condemned for overseeing mass repressions, ethnic cleansing, deportations, hundreds of thousands of executions, and famines that killed millions. Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:53 No. 3953
>>3952 >That is not true, largely because of something called NPOV. So long as you have credible sources you are welcome to add differing views on a subject This is not water-tight however. I've had personal experience with this where I would edit a page and provide a source (or remove poorly written sections and write a detailed reason for why) and it would be reverted immediately and without a trace, no matter how well written I made the edit. Ironically shitpost edits I have made stay up for longer than non-shitpost edits (such as citing Hitlers date of death as 1979 and writing a small section about how he escaped to Argentina which stayed up for a month) This was years ago, so the bots may have changed, but the point is, wikipedia is extremely unreliable. A centrist positions is still shite nonetheless, especially since it has contradictory ideas that leave a reader unable to make heads or tails of the subject. As Grover Furr put it, western historiographers have grown accustomed to citing one another as definitive sources and ignoring the primary material, and this is even more prevalent with wikipedia which rarely cites direct primary documents and often uses one-sided lists of sources. The most egregious example is Nazino, which relies on Werth almost exclusively (pic related).
TL;DR: centrist ideology is still shite, fuck using that site for political or historical study.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:53 No. 3955
>>3954 If you're genuinely asking this question on LEFTYPOL you're on the wrong site.
However I'll humor you with a simple response, he's a hack, just like Montefiore and many other "stalin-era historians". While there is plenty of "sourcing", the sources themselves are either unconfirmed/unreliable or do not corroborate the statements made by the author. I can't be arsed to dig through that shit book again for specific instances so don't ask. If you are seriously interested ask Ismail or other effort-fags to write a leftypedia article on it, you certainly won't find it on wikipedia.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:53 No. 3956
Someone use this
some annotated bibliographies for books on Chavez/bolivarian revolution:
https://pastebin.com/y4CVgm9P here's one on the cuban revolution:
https://pastebin.com/kKXwEL55 Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:54 No. 3965
>>3964 Sourcing is good but it is very one-sided. It lacks any mentions of (for example) the Palestinians being largely the genetic descendants of the original jewish inhabitants.
Or the fact that many Israeli immigrants were holocaust victims who were sent to Israel by British agreement (which ironically reflected a scrapped German plan to simply send away the Jews instead of the camps).
Moreover one must also consider the fact that the Jews have their own legitimate claims.
I would also add in some material about Stalin's original support for the idea before they were turned into a NATO outpost.
Based Cuban wikipedia replacement Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:54 No. 3971
Based Cuban wikipedia replacement
https://www.ecured.cu From the page on the United States.
https://www.ecured.cu/Estados_Unidos "It has historically been characterized by forcibly stripping other nations and countries of territories and natural resources to place them at the service of their companies and monopolies. With just 4% of the world population, it consumes 25% of the energy produced on the planet , and despite its wealth, more than a third of its population does not have medical care assured."
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:55 No. 3982
>>3956 We could make a summary be at the beginning. I honestly like that they are so big. Also I just found out about the no name thing (sounds a bit silly in my opinion).
Anyhow, I would like some sources for the Black Book Page's (
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Black_Book_of_Communism ) "Popularity in Right-wing Media and Arguments" portion (as it is very small right now and i think having it be big would be nice), the Traditionalism page (
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Traditionalism )
to be thicker and also very specialized as to on the interwined-ness of Traditionalism and Rightism, the US page (
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_America ) to be way thicker and lastly the religion page (
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Religion ) to be pretty indepth on religion and capitalism. Sorry for such a big request. Anyhow, thanks guys for existing!
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:55 No. 3985
>>3984 >Amadeo Bordiga That is going to turn into a leftcom wankfest smattered with ML trolling
>Communalism Cue Bookchin memes
Other than that good idea for page topics
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:55 No. 3989
>>3984 I agree that we need a Bordiga/ICP article (don't forget
bilan ).
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:55 No. 3990
>>3988 Try this: go to EcuRed (
https://www.ecured.cu/EcuRed ) and translate articles on it that are relevant to Leftypedia. So for instance, take the page on imperialism, translate it, and then add where appropriate to the Leftypedia page on imperialism.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:55 No. 3991
>>3988 Yes. The translation thread on
>>>/edu/ is a good start
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:56 No. 3996
Right now we have both capitalist and fascist cringe collections:
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Cringe_collections Go ahead and add some more to these if you will. There are a few other categories as well.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:56 No. 4000
Has anyone here read
The Origin of the Family ? If you have, do make an article for it here:
https://leftypedia.org/index.php?title=The_Origin_of_the_Family&action=edit Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:56 No. 4003
Someone should post the Evola or whatever Negroid sperm quote in to
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Fascist_cringe_collection Also how do we upload images? i have been having major trouble with it
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:57 No. 4006
>>4003 Is there a real source for that quote? I haven't found it.
Here's the link to upload images:
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Special:Upload Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:57 No. 4010
>>4009 Well For a criticism of Nazi privatization I can provide the following pdfs and info
Using Wages of Destruction by Adam Tooze I compiled all the food stuffs with on the chart in 1937 and found the average german proletarian family had approximately 1.96 million calories each year. This then translates into at least 5,361 calories each day.
I then check the average size of a german family which was 4 people; 2 parents and 2 kids using the fertility rate to get to my conclusion on this.
I check that the average male requires at least 2,500 to maintain his bodyweight For women this = 2,000 and for children 1600~2200 calories but this can be averaged into 1,900 calories each day. Combined this means the average german family needed to have 8,300 calories daily to maintain their weight and most likely their optimal health.
Taking in the account the average familial calorie consumption of 5,361 calories a day to the required 8,300 this means
The average german family had only meet 64.6% of their required amount of calories in order to maintain their weight and most likely their health as well added with the fact that hitler was destroying the german reserves and accumulating massive debt to fund the army this means that if the germans didnt go full lebensruam and conquered most of europe by the 1940s by the least the german economy would not only be in shambles but the german population would be starving too creating a famine that would make the holodomor look like a fucking cakewalk.
Life was worse for the average person in pre-war Nazi Germany than it was Weimar Germany
https://www.cesifo-group.de/DocDL/cesifo_wp800.pdf Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:57 No. 4014
New page on Solzhenitsyn +
The Gulag Archipelago , check it out:
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Solzhenitsyn Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:58 No. 4017
>>4014 Very meagre, but a good start. There should be content about how he's heroized by the current Russian government (against the wishes of the people) and how he himself (and his wife) admitted to his works being fiction and hearsay. I think I can provide some good sources on the Archipelago later. As an example (untranslated sorry) there is a debunk that can be added. Natalia (his wife) made a statement to Posner (Russian libcuck journalist) that Solzhenitsyn never claimed the gulag killed 66 million, but even if he didn't that, many millions of people were killed there.
Наталия Солженицына: "66 миллионов пострадавших в гулаге, ЯКОБЫ, называет Солженицын. Ну приведите цитату! Этого нигде никогда нет!"
Привожу: "По подсчётам эмигрировавшего профессора статистики И.А. Курганова, от 1917 до 1959 года БЕЗ ВОЕННЫХ ПОТЕРЬ … обошлось нам в… 66,7 миллионов" (с) Архипелаг Гулаг том 2, страница 8
Ещё
"всего мы потеряли от социалистического строя — 110 миллионов человек!" (с) соЛЖЕницын. Публицистика, Том 2, страница 451.
А реальные цифры привести?
Справка МВД СССР на имя Хрущёва от 1 февраля 1954 года (эти цифры Хрущ завысил в несколько раз, рассказывая о выдуманном им же культе личности тов. Сталина):
0.6 млн человек - расстрел (ЗА 32 ГОДА, КАРЛ!)
2.4 млн - лагеря и тюрьмы (ЗА 32 ГОДА, КАРЛ!)
0.8 млн - ссылка и высылка за границу (ЗА 32 ГОДА, КАРЛ!)
Это 3.78 млн за 32 года (всего пострадавших).
Это 0.12 млн в год пострадавших. То есть, "репрессии" коснулись менее чем 0.05% населения.
И какой процент из этого по-вашему невиновные? Или всех арестованных будем автоматически считать невиновными?
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:58 No. 4024
The Lend-Lease Act needs to be seriously worked on, it's pitifully under-sourced and under-written.
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease_Act Feel free to use post related to flesh out the particulars.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=921020 Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:59 No. 4027
>>4026 Move it to
>>>/edu/ where it fucking belongs then
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:59 No. 4038
>>4037 It's not sinking though. If it was that bad it would have been gone a long time ago by its own merit, however that's not the case. Plus, we need more awareness about this website, since it has a lot of information on useful topics of all sorts… information on various communist states that Wikipedia doesn't show, a debunk of the Holodomor narrative, how to protest, etc. Information is good, you won't get anywhere without it, and here it is in one place. Plus, we need more editors, so awareness is good for this as well.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:25:59 No. 4039
>>4038 It was, I bumped it with
>>4037 on page 20 something
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:26:00 No. 4044
>>4043 Unlikely, academics already understand that wikis are garbage for consistent and accurate information. Unfortunately you refused to listen to this
>>3804 and
>>3948 and still have some very naive optimism about the future of this project.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:26:00 No. 4049
>>4005 >black belt wtf i love Karate
also northern new england is unfortunately libertarian country.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:26:00 No. 4051
>>3896 I play this and imagine myself fighting in a revolutionary war:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2UKhmH03uc Please stahp posting youtube links that are blocked in my country. Make webms pls.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:26:00 No. 4052
>>3820 >>3888 Yeah that's america though
Why would the workers state seek victory on the back of killing workers from another nation?
>If they had a strategic bomberlfleet they would have done Dresden style fire bombings as well Bombing civilian targets just for the shits of it? I highly doubt it.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:26:00 No. 4053
>>3781 >>3885 >>3891 I literally posted all this shit the last thread
http://www.cverdad.org.pe/ifinal/pdf/TOMO%20VII/Casos%20Ilustrativos-UIE/2.6.%20LUCANAMARCA.pdf >no arguments of points to make >but i she you post with a trip so i will just point that out for the 100000000th time bro, i like it when you do this.
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:26:00 No. 4054
>>3797 >>4002 >In a way it can be concluded that when socialism (or quasi-socialism, as was the case in the SFR Yugoslavia) is in danger of dying, something similar to what happens when capital is in danger happens. As in, when capitalism is danger, fascism props up to violently defend it, when socialism is danger, a vulgar quasi-socialist nationalism pops up to defend it (pretty much what the Socialist Party of Serbia, Milosevic's party when he ruled the FR Yugoslavia was.) Now this, I like.There is a huge possibility, that when socialism is about to be dismantled via a revolution it activates in the midst of its crisis a group in intents to save it just as a self defense mechanism, but notice that just as fascism this can´t be born out of the blue, it is grown through the reproduclion of ideology, and realized when socialism crumbles, whether it be communism or a reversion to capitalism.Notice how, this is mostly a universal consequence of the transition between economic systems, an attitude fermented by those who live a \"good capitalism
Under-rated thread TBH
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:26:01 No. 4055
>>3955 >Left is consistently the ugliest tree with the worst apples and I'm not fucking with it. I see it throughout history and I seen in the past 5 months. Don't build anything normal people can appreciate, its always some dumpster fire deathcult. So support fascism then and stop bmowsing the website lol. You'll be on our side anyway. Just don't hold any punches or else you'll decelerate.
>Righv-wing utopia: White people are not enslaved Remind me what wage slavery is again. Perhaps how Nazi Germany planned to restructure its economy
where did Om say that?
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:26:01 No. 4061
>>4060 This document was already formatted onto the wiki, on top of a few other additions:
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Hacktivism >>4059 We already have a page on that here:
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Organizing Anything you would like to see added to it?
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:26:01 No. 4064
>>4056 Soviet healthcare is a good topic
Some starter info:
-
https://mega.nz/folder/LIhjFKrA#ey8UpJYWA46ZjZkGjWlP6g (inside russian medicine, red medicine)
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https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1981/11/05/the-health-crisis-in-the-ussr-an-exchange/ -
https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/35/6/1406/660153 -
https://www.academia.edu/18309229/Anomalies_in_Soviet_healthcare -
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1025801/pdf/westjmed00144-0116.pdf - Mickiewicz, Ruth, Handbook of Soviet Social Science Dam New York: Free Press, 1973.
- Look up Semashko System
Most doctors per capita in the world Source:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/newsholme/1933/red-medicine/index.htm The Soviet Union had the highest physician-patient ratio in the world, my notes say 42 per 10,000 population, vs 24 in Denmark and Sweden, 19 in US. In this document:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0735675784900482 You can open it without paying with sci-hub.cc
Raised life expectancy by 65% Provided Healthcare was a right. Free healthcare for all and about twice as many doctors as the USA;
- Article 41:
Citizens of the USSR have the right to rest and leisure. This right is ensured by the establishment of a working week not exceeding 41 hours, for workers and other employees, a shorter working day in a number of trades and industries, and shorter hours for night work; by the provision of paid annual holidays, weekly days of rest, extension of the network of cultural, educational, and health-building institutions, and the development on a mass scale of sport, physical culture, and camping and tourism; by the provision of neighborhood recreational facilities, and of other opportunities for rational use of free time. The length of collective farmers' working and leisure time is established by their collective farms. - Article 42:
Citizens of the USSR have the right to health protection. This right is ensured by free, qualified medical care provided by state health institutions; by extension of the network of therapeutic and health-building institutions; by the development and improvement of safety and hygiene in industry; by carrying out broad prophylactic measures; by measures to improve the environment; by special care for the health of the rising generation, including prohibition of child labour, excluding the work done by children as part of the school curriculum; and by developing research to prevent and reduce the incidence of disease and ensure citizens a long and active life. (Soviet Constitution of 1977, Part II. The State And The Individual; Chapter 7: The Basic Rights, Freedoms, And Duties Of Citizens Of The USSR)
"Over much of this century the nation in the vanguard of the revolution in health was the Soviet Union. In 1897 Imperial Russia offered its people a life expectancy of perhaps thirty years. In European Russia, from what we can make out, infant mortality (that is, death in the first year) claimed about one child in four, and in Russia’s Asian hinterlands the toll was probably closer to one in three. Yet by the late 1950's the average Soviet citizen could expect to live 68.7 years: longer than his American counterpart, who had begun the century with a seventeen-year lead. By 1960 the Soviet infant mortality rate, higher than any in Europe as late as the Twenties, was lower than that of Italy, Austria, or East Germany, and seemed sure to undercut such nations as Belgium and West Germany any year." - Nicholas Ebserstadt (a conservative think-tank adviser)
Anonymous 21-12-20 05:26:02 No. 4072
>>4071 Definitely this
Also is it just me or are we continually drifting to the bottom of the board due to inactivity… This thread should be pinned or moved to /edu/ because it's 100% necessary and informative and is being underused because of so many garbage OPs being posted.
Comrade 21-12-20 05:26:27 No. 4377
Resources on Ecomarxism/Capitalism ecological impact - Last subchapter of black shirts and reds (parenti)
https://web.archive.org/web/20070111014358/http://www.greenleft.org.uk/manifesto.shtml (for ecomarxism/ecocapitalism article)
Comrade 21-12-20 05:26:38 No. 4518
>>4024 So I've been slowly adding some parts from (my) nationstates dispatch to the wiki, however since I'm having trouble coding the sources properly I'd like someone to also help out in posting the data and sources if possible.
Also 2 other sources to consider for the article including some content about the gratefulness of Soviet people and the myths about "downplaying"
http://archive.is/VAS79 http://archive.is/kbywO Also, I request someone correct the part about Zhukov saying "decisive factor" That is a image-quote spread by wehraboos and /pol/. The full and actual words he stated are as follows.
"The Soviet people give their due to the people of the United States and Britain, to their soldiers, sailors, officers and military leaders who did everything in their power to bring closer the victory over Nazi Germany. We sincerely honour the memory of the killed British and American seamen who despite the dangerous situation at sea, despite the fact that they faced death every mile of the way, delivered to us the cargoes under the Lend-Lease agreement. We highly appreciate the valiance of the participants in the Resistance movement in many European countries." (…) "We also touched upon the deliveries under the Lend-Lease programme. Everything seemed clear in that respect then. Nevertheless, for years after the war bourgeois historiography has asserted that it was the Allied deliveries of armaments, materials and foodstuffs that had played a decisive role for our victory over the enemy. True, the Soviet Union did receive supplies the economy needed so badly: machinery, equipment, materials, fuel and foodstuffs. For example, over 400,000 vehicles, a great number of locomotives and communication facilities were brought from the United States and Britain. But could all that have had a decisive influence on the course of the war? I have already mentioned that the Soviet industry developed on such a scale during the war that it provided the front and rear with everything needed. I see no sense in going into all that once more. As for the armaments, what I would like to say is that we received under Lend-Lease from the United States and Britain about 18,000 aircraft and over 11,000 tanks. That comprised a mere 4 per cent of the total amount of armaments that the Soviet people produced to equip its army during the war. Consequently, there is no ground for talk about the decisive role of the deliveries under Lend-Lease. As for the tanks and aircraft supplied to us by the British and US governments, they, to be frank, did not display high fighting qualities; especially tanks which, running on petrol, would burn like torches" - 2014 edition of his memoirs ("Marshal of Victory: The Autobiography of General Georgy Zhukov")
link:
http://booksdescr.org/item/index.php?md5=B2EEF3B4C47AF4D8AFE26F4F6F75E34B Also working on the utterly devoid WW-2 page if I can, expanding into myths about the USSR also taken from there. Also Created a Molotov Ribbentrop Pact which is very much necessary as the subject is lengthy as hell. However I also believe that the Wikipedia page is far too bloated. For example the section on the Background reaches all the way back to WW-1 and The German-Soviet interactions of the Weimar Republic and other information while lacking key information. The Munich Treaty is also touched upon in bloated fashion and portrays the Soviets as overtly aggressive. I suggest taking the base information of wikipedia's page and rewording it, cleaning out unnecessary fluff and inaccurate russophobia and anticommunism and providing context from the Soviet view of things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#Background Also Grover Furr's prodigious work on Poland contains detailed primary sources on the subject that I suggest we make use of.
https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/mlg09/did_ussr_invade_poland.html Good luck comrades, help make this project work!
Comrade 21-12-20 05:26:40 No. 4537
Recently finished the article on The Great Plan For the Transformation of Nature and while it's pending admin review I just wanted to post some sources worth looking over for anyone who'd like to add more.
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Plan_for_the_Transformation_of_Nature An article going over the opinions and historical assertions of Russians and Historians modern and past, on the plan
-
http://novsoc.ru/stalinskiy-plan-preobrazovaniya-prirodyi-v-kontekste-istorii-russkoy-myisli/ An article written by an anti-communist Ukrainian ecological group. Many assertions are unfounded anti-communist drivel however a few citations are legitimate and should be looked into.
-
http://www.ecoethics.ru/old/b61/52.html An article with some basic information and high quality images that I don't know how to upload. The Stalin poster should be the top image and several other photos ought to also be included throughout the new article.
-
https://ardexpert.ru/article/14074 Cyberlenin article written on the plan
https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/stalinskiy-plan-preobrazovaniya-prirody-trudnosti-i-uspehi-ego-realizatsii-v-adygee-1948-1953-gg A 1952 academic review of the plan
-
http://istmat.info/files/uploads/52263/kovda_v._a._velikiy_plan_preobrazovaniya_prirody_1952.pdf Another article:
http://archive.is/56nXK Dispelling myths:
http://www.domarchive.ru/chronica/8787 Anonymous 08-07-21 03:10:57 No. 6372
>>5659 >By the beginning of 1918 German armies started to surrender, as the tide of war was going swiftly against them. The German proletariat, suffering from both food and fuel shortages, threatened a socialist revolution at home. German leaders feared that potential revolution and eventually asked the allies for peace. The armistice went into effect at 11 AM on 11 November, 1918 I needd to know more
I don't understand how what happened in germany had a result in russia
Anonymous 26-07-21 03:06:04 No. 6572
>>6372 Until 1917, the Austro-Hungarian forces were being pushed back by Russia's army despite the latter being underfunded, under-armed and with outdated equipment (literally no gasmasks or aircraft of their own making, and a British lord reported 1 rifle per 3 people (yes the "Soviet myth" about 3 men to a single rifle actually originated from WW1 Russia).
The Germans had to send forces to stop and push back Russia before it could crush the AustroHungarians, during which time the February Revolution occurred, and later the October Revolution, in which, to quickly end the war and focus on internal affairs, Lenin made territorial concessions to Germany (which would allow Poland to reform) and focused on the Civil War/Revolution while the Western Empires were busy killing each other.
The Versailles treaty was made on the terms of Britain and France, even though Germany's military position was such that it could have and should have ended the war on fair terms since they hadn't started the war at all.
>>5658 This is why we need people making contributions!
Anonymous 02-08-21 17:52:43 No. 6696
>>6573 good idea
i checked the prole wiki and they say that LP stuff is a good thing to use to improve Prole Wiki stuff - nurture eachother
Anonymous 01-09-21 22:13:33 No. 6950
Can anyone start the Permaculture page?
https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Permaculture Feel free to use the Permaculture thread
https://bunkerchan.live/hobby/res/12707.html (this is more complete than the one on the current site, as errors deleted like some big old posts and files
Anonymous 05-01-22 23:30:16 No. 9269
>>8065 imagine getting your ideology from
simping kill yourself any time.
Anonymous 23-03-22 03:38:09 No. 10107
Something to add to NATO page
came across an actually half-decent article on some basic background history of nato expansion and the opposition to it from within high ranking military, political, & intelligence leadership and so on. Published 2 months ago, im sure the editors wouldn't make the mistake of publishing a piece like this now
https://www.vox.com/22900113/nato-ukraine-russia-crisis-clinton-expansion though unless I missed it, it made no mention of the guarantees made to Gorbachev not to expand one inch eastward after the accession of a reunified Germany
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early Here's a good list of Western opposition to NATO expansion:
https://nitter.net/RnaudBertrand/status/1498491107902062592#m Anonymous 16-07-22 20:16:52 No. 11256
>>11245 Wow, this is a legit bummer. Going to the articles about the GDR and the like was incredibly infromative to me.
Though, at least, there are some archives:
https://archive.is/https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Main_Page https://archive.is/Y8xvF F Anonymous 16-09-22 17:09:30 No. 11667
>>6573 https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Unequal_exchange Can somebody explain this article to me? (Don't just say it's great or shit. Try to summarize it first in case I got this wrong.) My impression of what it says:
1. Two different types of commodities are produced in two places. Despite the products being different, both places have the same costs for wages plus other stuff, and the same profit rate. The two places sell to each other.
2. Then the group of workers in one place but not the other achieve that their wages are raised.
3. Because profit rate are equal everywhere (that would be news to me), the boss running the place with the increased wages just increases the price and now the workers in this place are exploiting the workers in the other place.
If the boss can get away with demanding a higher price, why not just do it anyway no matter what the wages are? I don't see why higher wages would be a necessary cause for rising the price, unless the boss is a humble fellow who never wants more than the average profit rate, which I don't think is a realistic assumption about members of the boss class. (Not that people like that can never exist anywhere, but they filter out themselves by acting that way.) The position argued in the article seems to be identical to the position of
citizen Weston in this lecture by Marx:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch01.htm Am I wrong about this?
harrystein 13-03-23 15:22:25 No. 12616
Have people given up on Leftypedia in favor of ProleWiki? That site has several issues but is active and looks nice at least. I like the idea of Leftypedia and feel like it could be a promising non-sectarian general repository if only we could have more active admins
We still don't even have
>>11462 for Christsake
Anonymous 25-03-23 22:54:49 No. 12692
>>12616 https://leftypedia.org is dead again. Revive it you fools or at the very least transfer the content from there onto Prolewiki FFS.
archives have jack n shit.
Harry 27-04-23 14:38:33 No. 12882
II think I've fixed all the templates that were in the old files. The site is looking a lot better. I've brought back basically everything that I can without admin help (images, mainly).
I also wrote a couple articles. Read or edit them if you like:
https://wiki.leftypol.org/wiki/Tankie https://wiki.leftypol.org/wiki/Bourgeois_revolution And rewrote these ones:
https://wiki.leftypol.org/wiki/Political_correctness https://wiki.leftypol.org/wiki/Identity_politics Harry 21-07-23 18:31:50 No. 19899
>>12882 Overhauled template on political economy:
https://wiki.leftypol.org/wiki/Template:Political_economy_sidebar Work in progress. Also working on a "Theories of imperialism" one
Harry 22-08-23 18:52:35 No. 20225
Images are fixed. Templates are almost all fixed, making it much easier to see which pages need to be improved:
https://wiki.leftypol.org/wiki/Category:Editor_categories I also plan on adding WikiProjects, which would allow groups of editors of a certain interest, like a tendency (MLs, anarchists) or topic (Hegel, imperialism) to work together. See for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Socialism Unique IPs: 33