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File: 1656914308691.png (Spoiler Image,8.53 KB, 449x209, ClipboardImage.png)

 

Is Dwarf Fortress the most Historical Materialist game of all time?

>Simulates thousands of years of history

>Simulates individual lives
>Simulates entire economies
>Simulates private property, families, cities, states
>does not privilege the player with any kind of protagonism. You are simply an entity in a larger civilization
>any entity can be wiped out at any given moment and replaced with a similar one.
>deep physics simluation that includes erosion, precipitation, and the formation of continents
>can instantaneously generate an entire encyclopedia of interconnected occurences spanning thousands of years
>simulates marriage, divorce, courtship, cheating, betrayal, coups, assassinations, persecutions, and purges
125 posts and 14 image replies omitted.

>>33831
>I would say it tries to be
Dwarf Fortress came out earlier. So it's Factorio that's trying to be Dwarf Fortress if anything.

>>33805
Youtube algo randomly blessed me with this video that seems to respond directly to this sentiment.

>>33837
I didn't say it tries to be Factorio specifically. They are different games after all, though they have similar elements. I said it tries to be the kind of game, what they call a colony sim, which is exactly why i played it and i would say it fails miserably at being a good sim game.

Anon here >>33813 said he played it mainly for "emergent stories". I guess i will agree that if you play it that way, it can be fun for you. It is unfortunate that many people try to pass it for something else.

>>33844
That sucks if someone sold it as a colony sim game. That's the "genre" you'd put it in but the appeal of it is in the detailed interactions. The colony sim is like the framework that creates a context for all the stories to happen within. The actual colony building part isn't really that challenging or deep in itself because it's not the focus but rather the foundation for everything else.

>>33846
>That sucks if someone sold it as a colony sim game.
Even in this thread people call it that, like this guy >>33824

And on steam it is being tagged by players as colony sim too.

Yeah, i guess i was looking for the wrong thing in the wrong place. It happens. If other people are having fun with it, good for them.

>>33848
Well it is technically a colony sim but it's not what it's about or its appeal. Idk if steam has a tag that's more suitable to describe the story generation. Some games like this are a little outside the box and hard to put into those kinds of categories.

Sucks that you got led to expect the wrong things and wasted your time and money.

>>33849
You can refund a game on Steam thankfully. I'm sure the anon did that.

>>33850
If you played more than 2 hours, you can't. I played quite a bit more than that.

Anyway, i think i'm over it, so thanks guys for letting me vent.

>>33851
Should have played the free version instead.

You know what? That's why Steam SUCKS and GOG is based, might as well pirate. It's just stupid, that kind of thing happened to me to. Like, how much can one really do for 2 hours in a game? Pass the tutorial?

That's why the developers don't bother with later-game content, they expect you to not be able to refund the game in time.

>>33853
>Like, how much can one really do for 2 hours in a game? Pass the tutorial?
Especially since a lot of game companies make them longer and longer specifically so that you won't be able to refund the game after.

Factorio devs are based because they provide a free demo.

>That's why the developers don't bother with later-game content, they expect you to not be able to refund the game in time.

Yeah, why bother polishing the game when marketing did it's job and shitload of preorders are in, and they won't be able to refund them if they've just passed tutorial stage.

>>33854
>Factorio devs are based because they provide a free demo.
The game's also libre so you can compile it if you wanted to. Though I'm not sure if the in-game sprites are also libre.

>>33808
Try Songs of Syx. It's like Dwarf Fortress mixed with Sim City or Pharaoh, and has an extensive free "demo" that basically lets you play forever, unless they updated that.

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adventure mode beta is april 17th with the full release a few weeks after

Hate the new controls and menu system. None of the hot keys work anymore, weird mouse stuff and thry stopped updating to Linux almost instantly after they sold out to steam.
Anyone else hate it?
This all genuinely made me depressed as the game (and bay12 games generally) was a big part of shared enjoyment between me and my sibling as kids.

>>34037
>Anyone else hate it?
I don't hate it, but i started playing again (waiting for adventure mode) and damn i'm fucking lost.

>>34037
I get it's supposed to appeal to people who like the idea of DF but got filtered by the old UI, but I wish there was an option to go back to the old UI. It's way faster to do things with once you built the muscle memory for it compared to having to use a mouse.

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smh Dwarf Fortress got political

>>34123
after trying out the updated version and finding out the controls were different i immediately lost interest, maybe this is what becoming a boomer feels like

>>34155
lol there was a meltdown on 4chan back when he posted the announcement in support of BLM, maybe they'll rally to defend the honor of EA and microsoft execs this time

>>34123
>It's way faster to do things with once you built the muscle memory for it compared to having to use a mouse
Yes. I never really got the kvetching about oldUI, the new one makes the game monotonous, slow and repetitive.
>>34122
It took me days to get the hang of it and I still found myself trying to press shortcuts that no longer do anything.
Building things like zones and bridges is actually a nightmare now too.
>>34159
>maybe this is what becoming a boomer feels like
Yes. Part of my miserable NewDF experience was realising I am old and its no longer for us oldheads who were pro.ised thst Because of our donations the game would never be commercialised etc. The fact is we've been discarded for the prospect of a new audience bringing more cash than us.
Deeply sad.

>>34171
>The fact is we've been discarded for the prospect of a new audience bringing more cash than us.
Aren't they still releasing it in the old version with the same UI?

>>34171
>I never really got the kvetching about oldUI
There's a lot of a fair criticisms of it. Some stuff isn't placed logically in the categories you'd think they'd be, inconsistencies with specifying the size of a designation requiring you use -/+/*,uhkm, or wasdx, lack of searching in certain menus without DFhack, mouse controls being in a dogshit state (until recently of course), etc. But it still should've been refined alongside mouse controls instead of the latter virtually superseding it.

>>34172
If you're talking about the free version, no. It has the same UI as the steam version. The only way to play the game with the old UI is to play any version before .50.

>>34175
>If you're talking about the free version, no. It has the same UI as the steam version. The only way to play the game with the old UI is to play any version before .50.
Oh damn that does suck. Hopefully they fix this with restoring hotkey functions or modders do it.

adventure mode beta's live

I've come to terms with that we will never see the Myth & Magic update, and that the steam release ruined the game. I don't blame the Tarns for working on it, it's not like they had much of a choice, but it killed the game all the same. Very sad.

>>34675
I checked the site yesterday actually.
Barely any updates unlike how it used to be even if progress was slow
Literally still pandering to the steam crowd
Hasn't even started work on M+M despite claiming to be just about to before the Steam pivot.

I have 0 respect for Toady now, which is sad i used to think of him highly and have donated to DF back in the day at various points.
Money grubbing freaks.

>>25036
You should go make this case on their forums. It's not like Toady and bro are completely unresponsive to feedback, you just need to popularize it. Hit em with the David Graeber and Michael Hudson ancient monetary histories. If you refuse this call, tell me, I feel like doing it now. I already troll like 57 forums. One more is nothin

>>34705
Oh God forbid they start taking community feedback and compensation after like 100 years of doing it for the art.

>>34675
>>34705
>the toady one had fallen
>billions must die

>>34675
Bitch: the steam version STILL IS NOT FINISHED. They released early.

>Money grubbing freaks

It's inexhaustibly funny to me how myopia is a plague on all blackflags.

>>34708
This but unironically.

>>34675
There was an interview where there's upcoming features for adventure mode that's supposed to help further lay the foundation for myth and magic (things like magic potions), but honestly even before the steam version myth and magic was kinda a "never ever." I just hope Tarn brings on more programmers beyond Putnam. That's the only way I see development not taking 2 decades to get out the "Graphics & UI" arc.

>>34734
>even before the steam version myth and magic was kinda a "never ever."
If you actually believe this you are dumb as hell.

>>34734
>I just hope Tarn brings on more programmers beyond Putnam.
This, there's no reason it needs to be such a small team.

>>34705
tarn adams was literally broke and had health problems and needed moeny

>>27737
the type of uygha to play FIFA and then get upset that you can't shoot the keeper in the face with a glock

>>34823
sorry man interesting indie games that appeal to niches shouldnt exist they should be slop that only appeals to meeeeeeeee

>>36263
replace "nondwarf visitors" with "nobles" and its based

>>36263
wtf realistic police simulator

I think the fact that you can build 1 (one) stone wall and sit safe in your fortress ruins the game for me.
So in order to lose the game, you kinda have to humor the game and let it win.

>>36320
i mean that's true of minecraft as well. you can just build a dirt house with a torch, seal yourself in, and never worry about mobs getting to you. yeah you can never die if you bury yourself at the beginning. deep.

>>36321
That's why I don't like minecraft either.

Both DF and minecraft have this weird thing where people build elaborate constructs, buildings and systems, that the game is incapable of ever interacting with or acknowledging. No enemy in the game is smart enough to ever bother with anything other than a long corridor with spike traps in DF, and minecraft it is difficult to die in general, and mobs are too stupid to provide any gameplay at all.

both games are just glorified voxel editors with extra steps, that, for some reason, have superfluous game mechanics and gameplay elements that never really come up.

>>36322
we have to wait for AI to catch up with gameplay

Lua modding is coming in the future

Adventure mode is finally out of beta.

Since it was mentioned as criticism in the thread I'd like to point out that in the next few updates they plan on improving sieges by allowing the besieging force to e.g. tunnel and build and destroy structures. Hopefully this will turn sieges into something more interesting instead of simply a free ration of metal for my smelteries.

>>39985
I haven't played the new versions much, since menu navigation and tile selection has become a clickfest.

>>39986
That was my biggest gripe with the steam release, changing hotkeys around would have been fine but for some reason I can't fathom they selectively removed some hotkey functionality. But now thats a fait accompli until someone puts in the effort to mod in better hotkey support.

>>27773
I actually like weird games that simulate things, but it's hard to pull them off. DF in particular, not the steam version, but the old version, has "model interaction collapse" as a problem. Tarn keeps writing code to simulate different aspect of reality. He schools himself on this or that to model something in dwarf fortress. But it breaks by interacting with other parts of the game. That's how you have alcohol poisoning from cats licking their feet or economics breaking. Models that simulate well on their own often do badly when combined. It's an interesting problem.

>>41271
Hasn't all the sim interactions like feline alcoholism been a major contributor to DF's charm

>>41273
true it is charming in a way. glitches and bugs and unintended consequences are always charming, but i was mostly talking about model interaction collapse in general as a challenge to simulation creators. simulation creators want their models to interact cohesively. sometimes the model interaction collapse is funny and charming, but not always. sometimes it can make things a slog, or broken, or boring.

>>41274
I think this is a challenge that has to be solved top-level, as a design philosophy thing. Look at the recent Zelda games and how they handle things interacting through a "chemistry" system as they call it. If you start from considering how all the different pieces interact instead of designing them separately as their own systems, it keeps everything more cohesive.


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