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<New Release
<Look inside
>Thinly veiled power fantasy treadmill
>Gameplay's trivial or an outright grindy chore but there's tons of UPGRADES and UNLOCKS
>Everytime you get an upgrade you feel you've gotten better and get a small dopamine hit motivating you to grind for the next upgrade which makes it easier to grind for the next tier
>Upgrades eventually trivialize key game mechanics
>Key content is locked behind unlock chores which don't add anything mechanically but create another impression of "progress" (no you can't just have fun and play the way you want you HAVE to do your chores first!)
>God fucking forbid devs stick to simple milestones and challenges
>Roleplaying in your Roleplaying Game? Wrong. The point's the power treadmill, roleplaying's secondary
>Only genres generally immune to this are engineering/puzzle and simulation games
Anyway post games that DON'T do this

Caesar 3

Name 10 games like this.

>>47683
Witcher series
No Man's Sky
Cyberpunk 2077
Atomic Heart
Bioshock series
Dishonored
Far Cry Primal
War Thunder
Whole survival genre is basically this for most part
Even factory builders like Factorio

Good example of games not like the above? Mirror's Edge, Left 4 Dead, original Assassin's Creed (aside from the whole puzzle/engineering/simulation genre)

In general I'm looking for
>No skill trees
>No XP based character progression
>No currency (unless it cannot be grinded)
>No content (characters, movesets, abilities, tools, weapons, vehicles) locked behind completing an unrelated challenge so that it becomes available in the next run
>No "progression" aside from your own skill at playing the game

>>47686
uyghur just admit you hate RPGs and immersive sim games and play other genres instead. you are listing the bread and butter staple mechanics of RPGs and immersive sims. stop playing those genres then. also I would argue that even the stuff you're listing is not the primary focus of the game. for example you listed dishonored which I easily beat without upgrading or buying anything at all, since there was an achievement tied to the stealth mechanics. you're just bad at games.

have you tried playing hello kitty island adventures

< i want to play a video game
< but also i dont want to play any video games that offer any sort of reward beyond purely tracking progress nor anything that might be interpreted as extrinsic motivator
uygha maybe stop playing video games and do anything else, like actually get some friends to roleplay with

>>47687
>you're just bad at games.
As someone who loves challenges this got nothing to do with it.
>genres
This stuff is everywhere now, even stuff like city builders, factory builders, action-adventure, racing games, etc. As mentioned, engineering/puzzle/simulation games (can add visual novels too) are about the only ones mostly immune to this.
>>47691
>stop playing video games
This is what most video games aside from RPGs were like before the late 2000s
Adding skill trees everywhere in particular is something that started around the late 2000s/early 2010s

>Critique progression systems that invalidate key game mechanics and hide overall trivial gameplay (including bad AI and poor level design) and which is primarily added to non-RPG games because "numbers go up" has been proven to be addictive
<Hurr you suck at games
God damn…

>>47695
RPG fans are touchy as fuck about their skinnerboxes, all I play nowadays are shmups, fighting games and the 3 JRPGs that contain everything you complained about in the OP but in far lesser volume.

>>47694
>This is what most video games aside from RPGs were like before the late 2000s
brother do you realize how wide a net "Thinly veiled power fantasy treadmill" casts, past 95 when memory cards and battery saves where ubiquitous, most games outside of mascot platformers and puzzle games could be described more or less in those terms

>>47707
In hindsight I should've been more specific. It's basically any game where you can grind XP or an equivalent (currency included) to make "numbers go up" (or get more stuff/abilities) and this feels more important than the actual gameplay. Which is often trivialized by making the "number go up".
I wouldn't mind this as much if this hadn't been shoved into so many singleplayer AAA titles these past 15 years. Or RPGs becoming synonymous with this kind of progression. (I like roleplaying and trying different builds, but I dislike the level grind, being forced to do boring quests, with the only choices being getting stomped with no ability to beat a fight by playing smart, or NPCs being pushovers because you're over leveled).

>>47721
holy adhd
half the fun in rpgs is doing side quests to encounter more stories and characters
you'd best stick to scrolling tiktok on your phone it seems that games are too hard for you

>>47721
>It's basically any game where you can grind XP or an equivalent (currency included) to make "numbers go up"
it's still fairly huge, but anyway RPGs before mid-2000s had even more grinding than they do today. if anything the complaint is usually that skill trees are a superfluous feature. there are also not a lot of ways to signify character progression other than making number go up in RPGs and video games in general. story or level progression signals itself. anyway play ultrakill

>>47722
>half the fun in rpgs is doing side quests to encounter more stories and character
That's what it should be. What I don't like is feeling pushed to do god awful side quests for their "rewards" (xp included) lest I fall behind in difficulty curve (bonus points if difficulty cannot be adjusted after starting a run or the only choices are "wipe the board turn one" or "prepare to quicksave 40 times in the next 10 minutes") or having combat be a complete chore because I'm forced to wait for enemy turns to complete even though one of my characters could easily end it in seconds if it weren't turn based.
I feels that's one thing that made Tyranny enjoyable; combat was trivial and not balanced at all, and spells would vaporize enemies almost instantly. But at least it was over in seconds so you could get right back to the story.
>you'd best stick to scrolling tiktok on your phone it seems that games are too hard for you
Don't like Tiktok and difficulty has nothing to do with this. I love puzzle games, played a ton of high APM RTS games online years ago, spend a lot of time in ARMA 3 and tactical shooters and so on. It's the progression systems that annoy me. Not the difficulty.
>>47726
I'm aware and it's why I never got into old MMOs, EVE online excepted.
I feel it would be better to get rid of quest based XP rewards entirely at least for singleplayer and co-op titles. You can still do character progression if you need to by giving players a level up when they enter a new act similar to various old action adventure games. And then they can decide what to do with those points, with devs able to ensure that every combat encounter has a similar level of challenge (depending on the difficulty picked). I can't think of any RPG I've played that would be worse off because of this.

And it's not only top down RPGs that end up worse because of these types of progression systems. It's games like Cyberpunk and any AAA game of the past two decades with skill trees and XP farming tacked on.
>inb4 but anon Cyberpunk is literally based on the tabletop
I know, and porting this mechanic to video games is shit, and has basically always been shit

>>47729
>I feels that's one thing that made Tyranny enjoyable; combat was trivial and not balanced at all, and spells would vaporize enemies almost instantly. But at least it was over in seconds so you could get right back to the story.
holy fuck all that yapping just to admit you suck at games and want combat to not be challenging at all. cry harder n00b.

>>47732
Just trolling now are we?

>>47733
Au contraire, it's everyone else being trolled by your bullshit.
>WAAHHH GAMES ARE TOO MUCH LIKE SPREADSHEETS I DON'T WANT TO ENGAGE WITH ALL THESE SYSTEMS
<Ok but like you know with many of these games you listed like Dishonored you don't have to engage with leveling up abilities and stuff if you want a more challenging experi-
>I LIKED TYRANNY BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE TO TRY AT ALL IN COMBAT
<……………………….so you just suck at games and want to complain?
>YOU'RE TROLLING ME

>>47734
What are you on about? I said what I ended up liking about Tyranny as an RPG, was that even though the combat was trivial and unbalanced, it was okay because the REAL TIME aspect meant it was over in seconds allowing you to get right back to exploring/the story. Which is different from many turn based RPGs where you know they'll stand no chance, but depending on your build you're still forced to wait for enemies to move and turns to resolve.
But I prefer if it's not like that. I.e. actually challenging combat encounters where you need to think hard about how to solve them similar to a difficult puzzle game, and you're not left wondering if it's next to impossible because you might be underleveled, or you find you wipe them easily because you did so many side quests (even if you only stuck to those you found interesting) and you're now overlevelled and there will be no challenge from now on.

Do you understand what I'm on about? That the issue here is HOW character progression works?
>Dishonored
With dishonored I expected "play with powers" to still be difficult, not "next to no challenge". But that still leaves the criticism of how character progression works when you do play with powers.
That's another thing I don't think you understand about my critique here; it's not merely about whether it makes some games too easy or too difficulty. I have an issue with grinding for XP/hoarding currency in order to "level up" in general. Or having to jump through hoops and then the reward is the game becoming easier instead of more difficult.

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>>47678
There really aren't games like this anymore, and it's due in large part to the enshitification of video games. Take a game like TLOU for example, even though it doesn't feature many of the issues you're complaining about, at its core it's still basically a corridor shooter with chest high walls in which the player plays whack-a-mole with brain dead NPCs, and if it's not that, then it's a barebones stealth game that is devoid of many of the features of stealth games that make them interesting, such as light and sound detection, enemies that patrol a given route that must be observed in order to pass through undetected, among other such things.

Compare this to RE4, which it's trying very hard to mimic, and you can immediately spot a difference in quality; there are a variety of zombie enemy types that behave in various ways who must be attacked in various ways in order to effectively dispatch them; specific spots on the body will illicit different effects when attacked (headshots initially earn instant kills, but once the las plagas is administered, enemies will sometimes sprout a parasite where their head used to be and continue attacking you; arms can be shot to disarm a foe; legs can be shot to make a foe kneel or fall to the ground, etc), there a numerous boss battles, and a large arsenal of weapons to collect and improve, but improvisation is always secondary to your ability to hit targets and use the game's mechanics to survive and kill enemies.

Back in the day, people shat on RE4 for being much more action oriented than its predecessors, and there's some legitimacy behind those complaints, because RE4's third person action is a departure from the series' mainstay survival horror elements that focused more on navigating a hostile environment with a limited supply of resources while trying to solve puzzles and make progress. However, RE4 was still a GOOD GAME, and that is why it's timeless, and TLOU is only enjoyed by nu-gamers who don't have a sense for what makes a game good, or the shills who want to ensnare those types of people, and will ultimately be remembered as an example of yet another "moviegame" that contributed to the downfall of the medium.

Anyway, you're just never going to find the perfect game that meets all your criteria, because they're all more or less going to feature some of the things you've described and in some capacity. What I suggest is to reduce your list of objections to only the most offensive deal-breakers and look for games that don't feature them. Failing that, stop playing modern games all together.

>>47737
TLOU2 vastly improved on and fixed all that you're complaining about for TLOU1's gameplay btw. TLOU2 is probably the best third person shooter ever made gameplay-wise, but unfortunately the story shit the bed so it will never be as fondly remembered as the first.

>>47738
>TLOU2 is probably the best third person shooter ever made gameplay-wise
I haven't played the second one so I couldn't say, and I'm not going to shell out 50 burgerbucks just to find out. maybe if it ever goes on sale… 10 bucks max.

>>47737
But there are, I mentioned Mirror's Edge which was released almost 20 years ago. But I can think of a few others. But god damn I'm sick of crafting, leveling, grinding, "character progression" systems (number go up). I know a few recent games that avoid doing this, but they're either not very challenging or they're outright walking simulators.
Something I consider "good" game design is where a challenge is rewarded with an even bigger challenge. Or maybe I'm too puzzle-brained/oldschool for what gaming has become nowadays.

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>>47741
When I think "modern game" I think something that was made in the last 5 years, tops. As you said, Mirror's Edge is something like 20 years old, thus it's not modern by any stretch of the imagination. At any rate, you say there are games like this in existence, but nothing comes to mind for me, aside from maybe Hollow Knight/Silksong or Blasphemous I and II, because those games require the player to "git gud" enough to defeat bosses and explore the environment by using upgrades and equipment to avoid certain death, but by the very nature of how "Metroidvanias" work, they still feature character progression in various forms, whether it's exp grind or the acquisition of new weapons and abilities. This is why I said you're not really going to find a game that doesn't feature these things, and you sort of have to narrow down your list of objections to in turn accept a larger list of games you might be interested in playing.

Here, five modern games I think you might be interested in, that are popular and at least 5 to 10 years old:
>Hitman World of Assassination
There's 47 flavors of murder, true, but 47's entire arsenal is more or less unnecessary, because 47 can kill his target with his bare hands, and all that variety exists primarily for variety's sake. Plus there are challenges you can do that make things interesting; One of the challenges I remember is that you have to equip your weapon at all times, and if you unequip it, you have like 20 seconds to equip it again or you automatically fail the mission. This is challenging because the guards and other NPCs will notice you carrying it and you could blow your cover or be forced into open combat, which ruins any stealthy approach. Obviously you can circumvent this challenge by wearing an appropriate disguise, but how about you try not to do that?

>The Forest

It's an open world survival game with crafting and collectibles, but for the most part you're as strong as you'll ever be from the outset. You need certain equipment to fight against certain enemies, and the acquisition of that equipment mostly requires exploration in a hostile world full of enemies that can appear at any time and murk you. Therefore, it pays to know when to engage and when to entire avoid combat. The learning curve at the outset, like most games, is steepest, and will taper off as you gain meta knowledge, but I feel it's worth at least a single playthrough. There are objectives, but you can tackle them at your leisure and spend most of your time acquainting yourself with the map, which will be something of a challenge in and of itself for the first time player.

>Kingdom Come: Deliverance

Get past the first two or so hours of cinematics, and then ignore the story in favor of exploring the world. Again, this is a game that will kick your teeth in if you're lacking in meta knowledge. Obviously it's an RPG and therefore has something of an exp grind, skill trees, and leveling mechanics, but most of the skills in those trees are inconsequential and provide passives to help you survive at best. The combat is influenced by your stats and equipment, but it still has a learning curve that you have to acclimate to, and you'll know you've "made it" when you can dispatch an entire camp of hostiles by charging in headfirst and taking them out one by one. This game is very much an Elder Scrolls clone, so it features similar systems; stealth, a wanted system, and survival mechanics like hunger and the need for sleep, etc. My advice? Go in blind, start on hardcore mode, and accept all of the handicaps during character creation. The sequel is more of the same, albeit with some streamlining for convenience's sake.

>Divinity Original Sin 2

It's an RPG, so you have to contend with upgrades, skill trees, essentially building a character, but it's a tightly controlled experience. There isn't really a grind because there are only so many combat encounters at any give time per map, and you can only visit each map once during its corresponding story chapter, so in order to really have an optimal party, you have to explore the entire map and engage in every combat scenario. In this case, less is more, because each combat encounter feels like it was handcrafted because it has a unique gimmick that you'll have to figure out in order to survive. Now, most of these are straightforward enough, but it'll test your preparedness and resilience as the player, because every character is more or less a jack-of-all-trades, in the sense that classes and attributes don't lock a character into a specific path of progression in terms of skills. You can specialize in one type of magic, or you can have a blend and try to make every character as versatile as possible, and their efficacy in battle is a testament to your understanding of the game itself. Maybe it sounds vague, but I'm not going to write a novel here to try and explain the game to you; read up on it for yourself.

>Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

I was going to suggest Elden Ring because it's large in scale and has much more content, but I feel like Sekiro is the embodiment of Fromsoft's design ethos. You really just have to acquaint yourself with the game's basic mechanics and work at it until you're proficient. There's not much more to say, the game will test your reflexes most of all, but once you get it down, the only downside is that you'll find yourself wanting for more content, because it's a short game compared to Elden Ring or some of the others I've mentioned.

Now, maybe you have your objections, but that really reinforces the point I made earlier. You have to reassess your expectations, because as far as I can tell, these are some of the best games to have been released in modern times, and they can all at least partially be described using the terms you've laid out in the OP. Here, have /v/eddit's top 100 for a comprehensive list of "good games" at a glace. Name anything better, I dare you.

>>47742
>Hitman WoA
Have looked it up and am interested in trying it out.
>The Forest
Played it and loved both the co-op experience and the inventory system which discourages hoarding and was a good indicator of what you actually needed.
>DOS2
Played that one too and enjoyed both singleplayer and co-op. Even if it still has the same issues I mentioned.


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