Isn't it older than reddit?
>>21456Yes, but I got the impression that the people editing it are more or less redditors in terms of personality
It has somethings to say with media analysis but it has a radlib/succdem bent.
Its a good beginner place to learn tropes.
>redditors
oh honey
>anything that happens (in narrative media) is a predefined construct that can be catalogued in an encyclopedic fashion
TVTropes is peak anglo mentality.
>>21459What are you trying to say here, dear?
>>21460>TVTropes is peak anglo mentalityI don't understand? Do you mean something like empiricism or positivism? When did those schools of thought ever talk explicitly talk about "cataloging things in an encyclopedic fashion"?
>>21464Ok and what does that have to do with redditors?
>>21458>Its a good beginner place to learn tropesWhat is an advanced place to learn tropes?
>>21464>>21461>TVTropes>Jungian archetypesAh yes the well known Jungian archetypes of [hits "random trope" button several times]
<One Drink Will Kill the Baby<Look Behind You<Immortal Assassin<God Karting with Beelzebub<Transformation Horror<A Match Made in Stockholm<Double Unlock<Plug 'n' Play TechnologyMhm, this is exactly what Jung was talking about.
>>21468What should I be searching for?
>>21471That is a lot closer to what TVTropes is.
Jungko
It's an OK site, but…
People shouldn't make tropes into something they are not. A movie or comic or novel is not bad because it has some tropes. Criticism and analysis of a movie or comic or novel is not the same as listing the tropes in it. In particular, compiling a big list of tropes about a movie or comic or novel, does not make a thorough criticism, nor does it necessarily show it's a bad piece of media. Stereotypes are things used to communicate quickly. People self-stereotype in real life to communicate something about themselves. The constraints of time or pages push the story tellers towards relying on stereotypes.
This annoying over-reliance on just listing tropes, I don't know what to call it. There is probably a name for that already somewhere on TV Tropes, I'll call it tropeism for now. A tropeist wants a higher dose of surprise than your average movie watcher, a much higher dose. If the dose is too low, the work is deemed shit. Plot twists that are too obvious are a serious crime for the tropeist. It matters little whether it fits the characters that it's a surprise to them even though it isn't a big surprise to the audience. If the script gets revised in a way that it has more surprising turns the tropeist almost always thinks that's better, even if the behavior of the people in the story gets less plausible as a result.
>>21477The correct method of criticism is to examine if a work of fiction follows the principles of historical materialism.
I like reading TVTropes, it helps me find new media that I might like, and it's entertaining, though you eventually get bored of it.
>>21477>People shouldn't make tropes into something they are not. A movie or comic or novel is not bad because it has some tropes.Exactly, that's why they always say "Tropes Are Tools" to remind the reader that tropes don't make a work inherently bad.
Though you're still right
>>21478For example?
>>21479Ask yourself if the economic arrangements in the fictional world make sense. How do the people reproduce themselves, how does this economic reproduction process reinforce the political superstructure, what contradictions arise as a result of the economic process?
The presence of slavery in star wars for example, makes no sense as we see there are already droids which can do the work of slaves and the productive forces are advanced enough for a high degree of automation.
>>21480>Ask yourself if the economic arrangements in the fictional world make sense. How do the people reproduce themselves, how does this economic reproduction process reinforce the political superstructure, what contradictions arise as a result of the economic process?Oh, so that's what you mean. Yeah, I think I kinda do that already every time I watch or read some work of fiction. And then, I think about how hard writing an entire fictional society or world would be, without knowing historical materialism well.
TVTropes started out as a funny compartmentalization of various common trends in numerous media and has kind of denigrated into being something that resembles a robot's attempt to define culture.
>>21482Is that why Junko seems to love it so much?
Tropes are not a completely useless way to look at fiction but no one should ever take them this seriously.
>>21482Pretty much
>>21455its absolutely great, i dont see the reddit link except most ppl are libs, but that just the statu quo bias present everywhere
>>21482oh yeah, why bother analyzing and categorizing our cultural works, why would we be interested in that at all ?
>>21455It's fun to read and it provides some good trivia and shit, as a for serious media analysis goes is redditor tier dogshit.
>>21488>>21487It's taking analysis and breaking down every little thing even if there is nothing to break down, it's gone from a decent and useful encyclopedia of media and story trends and turned it into a pedantic boring shitfest. Also the users have a bureaucracy that removes any edits or additions that don't fit the status quo such as removing pages on Russian or Soviet media that aren't full klyukva.
>>21486Huh ok, so is that the reason for Junkock?
>>21488There are many ways of "analyzing and categorizing" our culture and some of them are more valuable than others; listing all the media where characters wear a funny hat is not high on the list
>>21489Yeah lol
I read a "short" summary of Atlas Shrugged (or was it Ayn Rand's ideology in general?) on TVTropes once, and the article sounds pretty convincing. Makes you think about the kind of people that edit that site.
>>21493The headscracher page of it is full of justification of Galt's genocide.
>>21494can you find an archived version of said pages?
>>21496I think there's a ""Fandom"" (wikia) mirror, don't know if they have the deleted stuff though
>>21497It's probably poorly updated TBH
>>21498That's not necessarily a bad thing, and you can probably edit without an account
There are interesting things that were removed for apparently no reason on the main site that can only be found in the edit history, for example
>>21500Are you by any chance retarded?
>>21499>edit historydas rite, I forgot about that
>>21455I mean that depends on your perspective
And it seems you don't think they do
>>21506>I mean that depends on your perspectiveWhat perspectives can I look it from then? Sometimes the website and its editors try to apply tropes to real life. I think thats stupid, personally, but you seem to be able to convince me it's not
>>21507Tropes can kind of exist in real life because literature is often a reflection of real life.
>>21508Hm maybe you're right. Say somebody like Don Quixote…how is he a reflection of real life though?
>>21509The story of Don Quixote is the tragi-comedic story of a romantic, tiring of escaping into books and seeking to make it a reality, and bitterly failing. Truly a commentary about escapism and the tragedy of the human comedy,
Their "useful notes" pages about history are incredibly garbage, the only reason they haven't been purged is because they don't disturb advertising so it's so bad. The least offensive ones are simply oversimplified pop history but there are also some which are lengthy tracts written by a propagandist uncontested.
As for the normal tropes in fiction, I mean it's not bad, it's just trivia at best and it's fun to make a list of tropes you feel like watching and then finding a work that has them all.
>>21511>it's not bad, it's just trivia at best and it's fun to make a list of tropes you feel like watching It's got some decent trivia too, you learn things that are kinda obscure.
>>21475Disney's version is ACE
>>21455If there is something I can say, the userbase's taste in fanfiction is atrocious.
I'm going to write a spec for a TV show based on clicking the random trop button several times.
>Harassing Phone Call
>Bigger Than Jesus
>Wanting is Better Than Having
>I Fought the Law and the Law Won
Some revolutionaries start organizing an insurrectionary force, arming people with guns and gaining massive support for their movement. They're riding high, gaining popularity and national support until some of their leaders' unfortunately controversial comments are leveraged against them by the media to sour their reputation. Just as the people are starting to turn on them (and they prepare their next big move - a general strike), the Law cracks down on them, and hard. Dozens of leaders across the nation get done like Fred Hampton and the rank and file are put under mass arrest as "terrorists." While in prison, they are routinely visited by harassing members of the public, both right wingers and the families of the people they recruited. Their revolution crumbled in front of them because they underestimated the police state and its partnership with mainstream media.
A perfect piece of anti-communist propaganda that will help manufacture consent for the real crackdowns that are a-coming!
>>21515Sounds like a good fic
>>>/hobby/3558
>>21516I'm not about to write anti-communist propaganda, m80. The post is a (forced) bit about TVTropes being reactionary. Cool thread
THOUGH
>>21517You could do a satire of anti-communist propaganda though.
Whenever anything remotely political comes up on an article I throw up a little bit in my mouth.
If you hate yourself read the tvtropes articles on Disco Elysium in its entirety.
i hold its users in the same esteem as the "I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE" crowd and history factoid collectors. collecting endless bits of trivia with no attempt to meaningfully understand or contextualize, memorizing just enough to sound smart to your peers
>>21520That's the kind of shit normal people grow out of as adults.
>>21521At least they used to grow out of it.
>>21519>If you hate yourself read the tvtropes articles on Disco Elysium in its entirety.Lmao I suppose it makes sense considering this
>>21493
Also nice, this thread got moved here, I hadn't noticed
>>21455It's comfy as fuck, I always go read through it after I finish a video game.
Ironically for a massive 'encyclopedia' of tropes and their examples, they often lack a lot of detail or clarity.
>>21457imagine filtering your life through "reddit or not"
>>22949It's chan culture after all
it's a great site for numbing tbh.
analysis, not really.
but if there's some oddly specific thing you like in movies or media, for example a "Loser Protagonist," "Ambiguously Bi" characters, or a lot of "Bizarrchitecture" you can find similar titles easily.
>>22949He's not filtering it as "reddit or not" he is just making an observation that TV tropes can be reddit-y
It can be a useful tool for writing and discovering things that have story elements that you can like. On the flipside, there is a tendency to believe that a story can be broken down into parts and can be categorized, and that these categorizations make something 'good' or not. People obsess over these story components rather than enjoying the story in and of itself.
Also, some of the userbase has a tendency to be obnoxious in this regard. Trying to label this behavior as
REDDIT is an oversimplification.
Stories are not legos but many who use TVtropes have this tendency to look at stories and see these interchangeable parts. Or that 'writing a good story' is avoiding certain story elements. That and some used to think fictional story elements could be applied to real life back when the (embarrassing) forums were still a thing.
Basically paraphrasing this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQsPo6L9m-A
>>24236reddit tier analysis
>>24566Back to reddit for you.
I just use the tropes' example pages to find obscure, old, and niche works I might not have heard of before. Wouldn't dream of referring to it for actual literary criticism.
>>21494>They deleted those pages though liberals and libertarians took over the site.
>>21455 I just use the place for finding fanfiction for fandoms I like.
I appreciate that it catalogs cliches so that they can be avoided or deconstructed or inverted
>>21455It's good to search for a trope you know but don't have a name for. People who use it thinking tropes are bad don't know how storytelling works.
Peak anglo boxing (quite literally).
It's a shame All The Tropes basically failed
>>35014A trope or cliche doesn't make them bad you know, changing something for the sake of change is just going to create a mess, there's a trope and cliche for just about everything.
>>35015 THIS
>>21455I just realized that TV-Tropes has been around for roughly 20 years, and I was there for all of it. What the fuck.
>>24606The problem is just their tendency to try to make the list as long as possible, regardless of how unrelated the works being listed are.
You can have a trope called something like A Woman With Red Hair and you can bet that under the examples of the A Woman With Red Hair trope, someone will cite: Chuubo's Piss Fetish Universe (averted): Women have brown hair in Chuubo's Piss Fetish Universe.
>>36607>Chuubo's Piss Fetish Universe.Anon, I… what? Why?
>>36608Don't worry, I made that up because i couldn't remember the actual example I was thinking of
>>36622>66 22Alright, you check out. Gave me a scare there. Did you manage to remember the example BTW?
>>36626Nah, it was some kinda webnovel thing that tried to attract more readership by just being present in every trope page, insisting that it had every trope or DIDN'T have that trope and that was also worth mentioning on that trope page.
>>36632LMAO that's so cringe.
>>36632The Whateley Universe?
>>36634Aw fuck, yes, that was it
>>36591i have no opinion on tv tropes or whatever but yeah these major internet cultural touchstones and online collaborative projects all peaked 20 years ago, if you're an older millenial who had internet as a kid, you probably are emotionally attached to some goon project or some obscure vbulletin board or whatever. it was all downhill from then.
>>36657There's so much garbage on the internet now it's impossible to really get new stuff started or get attention for any unique projects/ideas
>>36657I'm not significantly emotionally invested in that or stuff like Newgrounds etc. but it's a bit nostalgic, in part because modern GenZ shit is stupider than the shit back then - capitalist decay.
>>21494>>21496If anyone has the htmls for those pages you can try to locate them on archive.is and/or wayback archive.
tvtropes is for sellouts, rel commies use allthetropes
>>42306caring about this seems incredibly autistic anon, it's still a useful resource I guess for anyone that cares about that kind of thing and it's fun to have somewhere to discuss media.
>>42307Why even have any threads at all, right?
>>42308ok fine I mean sure you can complain about it, sorry I guess
anything popular inevitably becomes bad
more people = more idiots
their administration moves at a glacial rate and you get stuff like all articles about porn, even golden age films, banned due to an archaic rule but can still have articles about the turner diaries or antivaxxer books with zero issues
>>42310if anything its getting less bad now that its moved on past its "snarky fanboy who finds xkcd and channel awesome funny" roots
it's not really uncommon for stuff to get popular for unexpected reasons, nor is it bad
>>42313can we complain about how bad and pointless the 'storylines' in channel awesome stuff was/is instead?
>>42314Yeah very hit and miss stuff from people who clearly overestimated their own capabilities in writing and directing a story. Still, I can't go full-on hater like some video essays out there who say shit like "yo, Doug's Walker life is an existential nightmare like in Perfect Blue and he hates every second of it!" and still respect their attempts at diversifying their content in the early age of YouTube even if it ended in awfully boring stuff most of the time.
>>42315I respect the fact that they wanted to do something creative like the movies and TV and shit they watch but the stuff like Linkara's videos where he's an uber superhero in character as Linkara is just embarrassing. I wouldn't say it to the guy's face but come on having a recurring storyline where you play like 5 characters in it which is just you in different outfits is just beyond belief.
I mean I guess I can't hate though because it's that confidence which led them to become successful creators in the first place, personally I put way too much perfectionism into my videos to the point that I got too stressed out to ever make any and got sad I didn't instantly become popular
I liked TV tropes because it was a list of cliches to avoid or subvert when writing. I especially appreciated the "laconics" that summarized the article and the "subversion" suggestions. I did not like when they started policing adblockers. Nationalize the internet.
>>42317>cliches to avoid or subvert when writingthats not what tropes are god damn
>>42317clichés are tropes,but tropes aren't clichés,and thinking you can just subvert them and write a good story is pure pseud thinking.
>>42319yeah thats how you get shit like homestuck
>>42320Damn I'm reading Homestuck now and I'm like half way through and kinda enjoying it but like fucking damn I have no clue what's going on half the time and there's way too much meta shit
>>42321it drops the ball HARD after around/after the 5th act
>>42322I just got through act 6 intermission 1, I just wanted to see the shipping and romance stuff, this cycles within cycles and universes within universes stuff just confuses me
>>42323trust me, the most confused person was the author when writing all that shit, especially when trying to tie all the loose ends
>>42324Honestly I wouldn't even notice any loose ends being tied up or not at this point.
I dunno I'm kinda tempted to stop reading but like I say I like the shipping and I wanna play those troll dating Sims.
>>42325maybe read a summary online. i regret wasting all that time reading the latter half of homestuck tbh
>>42326I don't have especially great memories of the latter half of problem sleuth so yeah idk maybe. But I'm an unemployed waste anyway I have nothing but time
>>42327i mean youre already saying youre utterly confused and im warning you it only gets worse from here. problem sleuth is considered hussies magnum opus so if you didnt like that one… yeah
>people like to talk about things they like
wow its like ur a genious or something
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