Post general thoughts, comments and marxist or any analysis on the show.
Ep 1 and 2 is out, Ep 3 comes out today.
Never seen GoT and enjoying the show so far, decent political intrigue so far.
>>28489 yeah and they'll certainly get that money, already renwed for a season 2.
Hopefully we get to see other perspectives on the targaryens, we have gotten some outside perspective but that's only from Corlys but he's still in the kings inner circle so maybe not an entire outside perspective but an alternative one, also I read apparently that the king is supposedly loved by the peasantry but he's doing fuck all apart from festivities for the upper classes like Corlys stated
>>28504> yeah and they'll certainly get that money, already renwed for a season 2.Yeah they had 10 million views for each of the first 2 episodes. That's not even counting late streams or anything I don't think. As long as they don't fuck up those numbers should be going up as word of mouth gets around that the new Thrones is good.
>>28513Dumb and Dumber (showrunners for GoT) nuked their own careers with that shit. This series was originally developed by GRRM, the author of the books, and the show is being run by completely different people. HBO, GRRM, the cast, and literally everybody else wanted GoT to last longer than it did. D&D cut it off abruptly at 8 seasons because Disney offered to give them a Star Wars trilogy. HBO should have probably replaced them with people who wanted to make the show but trusted their vision or whatever so they wrapped everything up too quickly and nothing made any sense.
>>28520People forget that Jaime Lannister's establishing character moment is
attempting to murder a child by pushing him out of a tower.
new lotr and got are pretty mid so far. I enjoy lotr more because i like middle earth more but the dialogue is definitely worse in that show.
>>28519the show was pretty much garbage after season 4, getting worse with each season. I quit in season 7 because I already thought it was unwatchable (really season 6 was a low point) at that point. So the whole season 8 ruined the show meme never made sense.
GRRMs history is too riddled with great man theory, feels pretty nonsensical that you would have an ecclesiastic order try to overthrow the throne - or some targaryen invent bourgeois notions of freedom because slavery is immoral. I actually think GRRM is kind of a hack in his world building.
>>28537>the show was pretty much garbage after season 4IMO the show got consistently worse each season. It's just that the ending was the worst they did and it seemed like they intentionally ruined all the major characters.
>I actually think GRRM is kind of a hack in his world building.Not an especially hot take, but fans usually don't like the series for its worldbuilding. A lot of the setting is just ripped off historical events, and it's supposed to be mostly mundane with not a lot of magic or fantastical elements.
>>28538>Like I've heard Daenerys is less of a mary sue in the books.Yes, the show arguably fumbled her entire character by making her too likable. One of the errors was thinking she is supposed to be fireproof, when her surviving the fire that hatched the dragons was supposed to be a one-time miracle. She suffers burns a few times in the books IIRC.
>>28556Finished the episode, his acting gets better when he makes his proper appearance.
Ep 3 was pretty good.
>>28560smug princess trope is charming ish for now until I assume she ascends to some form of power or strategy or something.
Second part of the episode with the entire battle and discussing tactics etc…was on epic proportions, loved every second of it and yeah the dragon are looking great.
>>28537>I actually think GRRM is kind of a hack in his world building.Besides naming the western continent "Westeros" and the eastern continent "Essos" it's tolerable.
>the show was pretty much garbage after season 4, getting worse with each season.Agree. Season 5 was tolerable if you ignore the Dorne storyline.
>GRRMs history is too riddled with great man theory, feels pretty nonsensical that you would have an ecclesiastic order try to overthrow the throneI mean, is it? Happened quite a bit in history and the mendicants in the later Middle Ages were quite a revolutionary movement in times of the crisis of the 14th century.
>or some targaryen invent bourgeois notions of freedom because slavery is immoral. Feudalism is against slavery to a large degree. Daenerys still wants to turn you into a serf.
About the Great Man Theory, come on, there are dragons which basically function as nukes. Obviously someone in possession of them would have a massive advantage.
>>28538>so some of these complaints may be more from its translation to an HBO show rather than in the source.Book one has pretty mediocre writing. Book three and book four is when it is best. Daenerys is someone who stumbled over a bunch of dragon hatchlings by pure circumstance transforming into an unstable teenage girl because she is like 13 when the books starts. She constantly fawns over manly men and throws temper tantrums. If she does turn mad like in the show, it will be much more believable.
>>28602 (me)
>ifI mean, bad wording. We both know that the fat fuck will never even finish Winds of Winter.
>>28609Those things aren't mutually exclusive. GoT's first three episodes were like that because of over a dozen characters but became plot-driven very quickly. Plus we don't know yet where the plot goes, Martin is notorious for weaving many promising threads but then fails to coalesce them.
I believe GoT went to shit after season 5 because it wasn't just D&D's incompetence but Martin hadn't an outline how he could untie all of this. In his books, the North, Dorne, Mereen are clusterfucks.
>>28628>In his books, the North, Dorne, Mereen are clusterfucks.They're clusterfucks, yeah, but I feel like nothing in them is inexplicable if D&D had read the books at all with any level of comprehension.
They (in)famously said that they wanted the show to appeal to football players so they took out all the complicated stuff like, uh, magic. Personally I feel like it's less that they wanted to appeal to that demographic and more that that's the level of their own ability to understand what's happening in the books. Martin gave them plenty of shit to work with and so even if they were vastly incompetent in what they cut, there was still a lot there for the rest of their team to work with.
But then when Martin's material ran out and they couldn't paint by numbers any more it all quickly fell the fuck apart.
>>28668>They're clusterfucks, yeah, but I feel like nothing in them is inexplicable if D&D had read the books at all with any level of comprehension. I agree. And to give it to the GRRM, he is a careful writer with attention to detail, he doesn't rush through a plot if it isn't entirely coherent. The problem is, while I think if you'd lock him in a basement with a typewriter and only feed him when he wrote a page, he could probably finish one of the greatest fantasy series of all time, but I think he is just tired. He doesn't really care for the characters anymore, he's been with them since the early 90s. That is still reason for criticism especially considering his attitude.
D&D seem to be failed narcissists (George is a bit of a narcissist too, don't get me wrong) - remember the episode where Littlefinger pushes Cat's sister out the Moondoor? "Only Cat" was the iconic line here but out of stubborness and ego they had to change it to "Your Sister". Also I think they didn't understand the subtle detail in GRRM's vivid, sometimes gross descriptions. For example in the fight scenes. Instead of describing how professional warriors fight methodically, D&D went for ninja shit.
>more that that's the level of their own ability to understand what's happening in the booksI mean they wrote Troy. That should give you a hint.
>Martin gave them plenty of shit to work with and so even if they were vastly incompetent in what they cut, there was still a lot there for the rest of their team to work with. Yeah, butchering book four just because it was slower was a mistake. The Expanse, in which the original authors have full editorial control over the script, went on with a slower season four after an eventful season three. It didn't hurt the show at all.
Paddy Considine has grown on me. At first I thought he was a weird choice but given the (shitty) king he is supposed to be, he actually fits really well. He should feel out of place because Viserys is out of place and a bad ruler. I legit laughed when he said Otto taught him how to be king, like that was something to praise. That scene where he finally came to his senses and dismissed Otto over the obvious conflict of interest was well done. I was starting to feel like dropping the show tbh since I found it pretty mid so far, but I think I'll finish the season at least based on the strength of that writing.
The way they've been handling some of the other characters has been pretty disappointing though. Daemon comes across enigmatic even though the writers' comments suggest his motives and inner conflicts are supposed to be apparent to the audience. Matt Smith seems like the weakest actor by a mile IMO, but idk how much is him as an actor vs the directors vs the writers. Rhaenyra is getting replaced and obviously Viserys won't be around for long since she's getting the focus as queen. So we're relying on the weakest character/actor to maintain continuity there. Yikes.
Overall it seems like a bit of a rough start with funky pacing going too fast but there's obviously plenty of potential, and unlike GoT this show could definitely improve over time. They also have every incentive to make it as good as they can because they are trying to use this to launch an entire GoT cinematic universe. All I can say about that is hopefully GoT/GRRM learned their lesson and won't let bad decisions fuck over the whole project.
>>28670I think the decline is about to start, and Viserys is supposed to be like the failson of a better ruler, a sign of society's decadence. Him being a shitty king has probably been the highlight of the show for me. The fact that he needed Rhaenyra to make him boot Otto Hightower shows his lack of leadership skills and decisiveness.
Replying to a post from the main /tv/ thread that belongs here, about the sex scene
>>28830>it is amusing though reading reddit comments where everyone is like #girlboss.It's even more confusing because of the age gap going on. If you had a situation like this in real life people would be saying an adult shouldn't fuck a teenager regardless of how horny they are (teenagers do be horny). It's not called statutory rape because they
don't want it. It's because they're not mature enough to competently make the decision. (They do explicitly say she's of age in-universe though.) Of course she is also his literal boss, which makes it even weirder. I think there's an idea that somehow those factors cancel each other out or something, but that's not how it works at all. Two factors making the sex inappropriate just means it's more inappropriate. But hey, this is par for the course with romance stories. People love forbidden love, but for whatever reason don't distinguish much between stupid social taboos (a la Romeo & Juliet) and the ones that exist for a reason.
>i interpreted it as her kind of passing on the trauma of her uncle (not)raping herIntentional or not, this is accurate. Kids who get molested can become outwardly sexual (to an extreme and disturbing degree) because it seems normal to them and/or they are trying to deal with this dimension of life but are too immature to handle their (intense and conflicted) feelings and uninformed about what is appropriate.
When watching the show, I thought that this was Daemon's plan, to introduce her to sexuality and make her horny but then leave her to do what she wanted with it (probably expecting her to go for someone in the pleasure house), but the showrunners said they wanted Daemon to be turned off by Rhaenyra not being submissive. They had some other confusing comments about his sexuality after episode 1 so somebody between the writers and Matt Smith is really dropping the ball on conveying what is going on with the character.
The whole way they handled the sequence was weird as fuck. The way they talk about sex at first it sounds like Rhaenyra isn't familiar with the concept? But then she immediately becomes a horny teenager after making out and groping for a minute? And then she's ready to have a "perfect" first time after hiking back to the Red Keep from Flea Bottom, not awkward or confusing even though she has no experience, it's with someone who obviously isn't into it, and it takes like half an hour to doff full plate armor? All of this in one night? And then she wants another round the next day? The show has been moving at blinding speed but you'd think they would at least have this amount of change for a character happen more slowly
in-universe.
>>28836It's pretty surprising that the chick who plays Rhaenyra (looked at her social media before, she seemed insufferable at first) turns out to be a pretty decent actress, although I think her character is written pretty well. Viserys is definitely the highlight of the show so far, Considine seems like a good fit.
Otto Hightower was also written decently, you think it's a good guy at first but it creeps up on you that the guy is basically an asshole who comes over like another Tywin ordered on Wish.
>GRRM learned their lesson and won't let bad decisions fuck over the whole project.They booted him in season 5 of GoT and that's exactly when the show went to complete shit (although you could observe some problems already in season 3 and 4). With HotD (kek) it seems like GRRM has full editorial control as an executive producer and you can see it in much better writing. The characters actually talk old-fashioned instead of guys from the hood like what happened towards the end in GoT. It's not like we are going to see A Dream of Spring anyways unless someone takes over the books, so we might as well get a fresh start with a new show. So far it looks good and I am positively surprised that it isn't just "omg dragons" fanservice soyfacing which I feared and a nice slow burn.
>>28878 (me)
Also I think that massive jump back in time seems like a good decision after all because it allows for more creativity without being worried so much about continuity problems.
i'm on ep3 and man it must be so awkward to have your bestie become your step-mother, like so creepy for viserys to do that
about aegon, what would happen if a commoner during that time, named their kid after a king too? straight up death sentence?
>>28876i mean, it's a show about a royal line…
>>28878why did they boot him?
>>28876I don't expect a Targaryen/ Spanish branch Habsburg to look like a model
He is perfect for the job
>>28910>about aegon, what would happen if a commoner during that time, named their kid after a king too? straight up death sentence?Didn't happen AFAIK. Commoners all had the same forenames as royalty, they were called John, Wiliam, Henry etc. just like kings.
Not sure but I think it was a bit different in Asia, especially China, because Chinese nobility had "court names" so I'm sure there might be a problem if a commoner assumed that as well, depends on the dynasty though.
In the show you gotta remember that the Targs are not originally from Westeros so their names always stand out and it might be seen as offensive if another one just styled himself like a Targaryan. Viserys doesn't strike me as a cruel person though. He might be incompetent, but so far we haven't seen him commit any acts of cruelty other than killing a stag. In GoT Ned Stark killed a basically innocent man in the first ten minutes.
>>28876>>28895>>28915His squeaky teenager voice bothers me more than his looks.
>>28920/tv/ has been calling Rhaenyra "monke" which tbh is not inaccurate. Somebody even made a "my ancestor" meme with her and Daenerys. I have mixed feelings because it's mean to shit on people's looks but they do be looking like some inbred royals which fits the story.
>>28910>i'm on ep3 and man it must be so awkward to have your bestie become your step-mother, like so creepy for viserys to do thatIn Viserys's defense he wasn't exactly spoiled for options and Otto very much manipulated them into that arrangement.
>why did they boot him?Because Dan and David are trust fund kiddies with delusions of grandeur who later fucked off and sank the show the moment Disney waved a Star Wars deal in their face.
>>28878>Otto Hightower was also written decentlyYeah, so far I think they have done a better job than GoT at making the characters feel more "gray" from the start. It's clear they all have their own agendas that they pursue for personal reasons vs how Starks and Lannisters felt a lot more black and white. They are handling the politics a lot better. Where GoT was basically everyone had their loyalties and plotted more or less overtly against their enemies, here the relationships are evolving as the situation changes. Daemon and Corlys teaming up. Otto getting booted. House Velaryon playing with marrying into the Free Cities to get a marriage to Rhaenyra.
>So far it looks good and I am positively surprised that it isn't just "omg dragons" fanservice soyfacingWell the show was GRRM's idea to begin with. He spent years developing it (instead of writing the books lol) before he pitched it to HBO. I would expect the other spinoffs to have more fanservice because they aren't his personal pet project. But IDK maybe HBO will see from this show that you don't have to pander. These few episodes have had a huge viewership.
>>28919>He might be incompetent, but so far we haven't seen him commit any acts of cruelty other than killing a stag.One of Viserys's biggest problems is his unwillingness to be "cruel." Putting aside the ethics etc of monarchy, being in charge of anything significant requires hard choices that not everyone likes. He is too much of a baby to take action that will bother someone and in the process gets more people hurt. It's like someone faced with the Trolley Problem but unwilling to pull the lever and kill the one guy because he doesn't want to look bad, so he lets the five people die instead.
>In GoT Ned Stark killed a basically innocent man in the first ten minutes.That's not intentional cruelty though, that's being Lawful Stupid. There's a lot going on in that scene thematically, but a big part is to illustrate the decay of institutions. Literally the entire reason the Night's Watch exists is to guard against and warn people of the Others/(White Walkers in the show), but it's been so long that this has been forgotten. So when they actually meet them, the NW has no idea what's going on and the sole survivor flees with PTSD from the situation. He ends up meeting the Warden of the North, which in theory should be the best case scenario for delivering the warning. But because nobody remembers their history and the guy is too scared to properly explain, Ned's like "RIP Bozo." In that respect that whole scene/story is a deconstruction of the old tropes about prophecies and setting up a militant order to prepare for distant future problems (with not much to keep them busy or keep the memory alive in the meantime). It also illustrates very well how rules/laws exist for a particular context, and outside that context or if it is forgotten they stop functioning correctly.
Does anyone think the king and the hand look way too alike? I straight up thought it was a double role until someone pointed out that the hand is played by Curt Conners from TASM
>>28927> would expect the other spinoffs to have more fanservice THERE ARE MORE SPIN-OFFS??!??
>>/tv/ has been calling Rhaenyra "monke" which tbh is not inaccuraterude
she is hella cute but yeah she does look "distinct" like a royal
her father looks more like monkey tbh, he has that frontal chimp like lip, jaw area
>>28928>THERE ARE MORE SPIN-OFFS??!??yes
>>28929kek
>>28929YES, that's the thing he has with homer in common in his mouth region
>>28930All of these are also based on GRRM's writing or…? Damn I wouldn't mind
Hope some of these are sequels to GoT
I want to see what happens next
>>28938there are two spin-off series, nice
i did not know this series dated back from the 1990s
makes you wonder what other books series are like GoT, just waiting to be discovered
I've never heard of the books before, were they very popular?
>>28954Yeah that was stupid. Rest of the episode was great though, the hunt was really cool.
>How did he even kill the guy, Just nothingThe guy had a shitty armor, a fucking pickaxe as a weapon and looked like infected with the last stage of skincancer. Not too far-fetched that Daemon would be able to kill him.
>>28953>All of these are also based on GRRM's writing or…? Damn I wouldn't mindHedge Knight is based on the Dunk and Egg short stories (I think that's what they were) by GRRM. The rest I think are loosely based on the setting not existing writings so much. They are stories that have been referenced in his books but I don't think they have material to directly adapt like with GoT or HotD. And the Jon Snow show is just a sequel to GoT without any material to adapt at all.
>>28954>Anybody else think EP3 the crabfeeder fight was lame?They didn't even show it lol. I thought the battle was kind of weak, like, why have they been struggling with this guy so long if they can beat the forces in a single rush like this? Felt like the writers didn't really bother making it make sense.
>How did he even kill the guy, Just nothingWell based on the corpse he cut him in half lol
>>28955The book series had a small but dedicated fanbase before the show blew it up. There are loads and loads of fantasy and scifi books out there that could be adapted. GRRM has written some of them lol. But you do kind of need something special to make a big popular show. You need good material to begin with, a team who can adapt it effectively, and a studio with the budget to give it the production quality it needs. It's important to point out that GRRM was majorly involved in developing both GoT and HotD for TV, because he was both the author of the source material
and he has a lot of experience as a TV writer. That's a factor that gave these shows a big advantage.
>>28968>and looked like infected with the last stage of skincancer.This probably will not come up in the show later, but it looked like greyscale, the disease that people around Old Valyria have. It came up in the plot of GoT a few times, with a couple notable characters having it. It's supposed to be highly contagious (sometimes) so it's a bit odd to show Daemon touching the guy's corpse and then just forgetting about that character detail.
>>28973maybe that disease caused the doom of old valeria or a disease that came out of it
it's so confusing that valriea is a place but also a people
targeryians and valerians have a shared history together, they need to explore it more
were they jealous of the rise of targeryians
did targeryians destroy valriea
>>29006>What a bad time in history>Meanwhile our real world between 1917 and 2017, just 100 years and the technological progress is insane>Industrial revolution with dragons, how would that happenSomebody gets mad at the dragon for spewing fire on things or people and blows up the dragon with a heatseaking missile.
Repeat that often enough and Dragons go extinct.
>>29005>it's so confusing that valriea is a place but also a peopleValyria is the country. Valyrians are the people of the country. Valyrian is also the language.
Velaryon is the name of the black house in HotD (the other one besides Targaryens). Lots of the characters from Valyria have very similar names too. It's an aspect of fantasy that is cringe and GRRM should have probably not done.
>targeryians and valerians have a shared history together, they need to explore it moreIn the books they also apparently were marrying into each other for generations which makes it weird that one family is white and the other is black. GRRM should have had the balls to just have the Targs be black when they made GOT. He did consider it.
>were they jealous of the rise of targeryiansThey are a lesser house because they don't have dragons. Targs can control dragons because of whatever the special sauce is.
>did targeryians destroy valrieaThere is a theory that this happened because they had the foresight or prophecy to leave before the Doom of Valyria.
>>29006>HOTD takes place 200 years before GoT but I don't even notice any difference Medieval stasis is a common but silly trope. At least there are some justifications for it in the setting however, like the chaotic climate fucking things up regularly. They are actually supposed to be in decline from the prior age of heroes or whatever they call it which is why there are so many epic castles and other structures around that nobody really knows how they were built. It's possible (kind of implied) that the random seasons are a more recent thing and might be the cause of the decline.
>Industrial revolution with dragons, how would that happenDragons are limited in number so they don't scale up like industrial machines. They might help you with primitive accumulation though.
>Spending 30 million on a pilot and locking it away just because you didn't vibe with itBruh the Batgirl movie was 90 million dollars and they deleted it for a tax writeoff lol.
>>29032Ohh that makes more sense
They're making a spin-off of them too, "The Seasnake"
>they had the foresight or prophecy to leave before the Doom of Valyrithat one chick who dreamed of Valeria
what did she know…
Yeah, Warner Bros is crazy with all this money, At least people got a job for a while
If I ever get a job with HMAX, I know to loot everything cause it's not gonna last
>>29006Well there wasn't much technological progress between 700 AD and 900 AD, or in antiqity over certain time periods.
>>29008In GoT Euron killed a dragon with a simple ballista. Episode 3 of HotD also showed the dragon retreating after a volley of arrows. I think the implication is that the dragons aren't that superweapon they are made out to be, it's mostly just Targaryen propaganda.
>>29032>In the books they also apparently were marrying into each other for generations which makes it weird that one family is white and the other is black. GRRM should have had the balls to just have the Targs be black when they made GOT. He did consider it.Can you imagine the butthurt if they made a black family ruling over a completely white empire? The cuckold memes on /tv/ would drop in the thousands.
>They are a lesser house because they don't have dragons. Targs can control dragons because of whatever the special sauce is.My suspicion, also based on Visery's monolog in the first episde, it was probably that there was political debate in Valyria whether they should continue to breed dragons and Targs just went rogue and did it anyway, fucking the entire place up. Weren't they already exiled in Dragonstone when the Doom of Valyria happened?
>It's possible (kind of implied) that the random seasons are a more recent thing and might be the cause of the decline.Yeah. It's that they never talk about the seasons in HotD if it's such a big deal. I am exciting to see some parts of the North and Wall, the Night's Watch in full capacity and not declined.
>Medieval stasis is a common but silly trope. Agree. Europe had an economic boom between 1000 AD and 1300 AD, then feudalism went into perpetual crisis.
>>28930The Sea Snake show could be cool. Don't care for the rest.
>>29062>If I ever get a job with HMAX, I know to loot everything cause it's not gonna lastThe Discovery merger is burning shit down as we speak. The GoT spinoffs may not even be safe (especially the animated one since the current CEO "doesn't believe in" animation or whatever lmao). There's talk that Comcast may move to acquire Warner-Discovery.
>>29076>Can you imagine the butthurt if they made a black family ruling over a completely white empire? The cuckold memes on /tv/ would drop in the thousands.Well, given the context that GoT is after the Targs are deposed /tv/ would probably think it was based. Come to think of it Dany would probably be seen as villainous by way more people from the start and her going apeshit at the end probably would not have been such a shock.
>it was probably that there was political debate in Valyria whether they should continue to breed dragons and Targs just went rogue and did it anyway, fucking the entire place up.Interesting idea, but idk if there's anything to suggest that specifically.
>Weren't they already exiled in Dragonstone when the Doom of Valyria happened?I think the official story is they left voluntarily but that could be fake news. After all, who is going to correct the record since Valyria is gone?
>It's that they never talk about the seasons in HotD if it's such a big deal.To be fair the story has mostly taken place in the south where winter isn't so bad. Even the Long Night was a bigger deal in da Norf because it's much colder there. It also happened before Targs arrived (as well as the Andals and Rhoynar), so we heard about it so much because da Norf are mostly descended from the First Men who have cultural PTSD from it.
>I am exciting to see some parts of the North and Wall, the Night's Watch in full capacity and not declined.Yeah supposedly this is the height of Targ power in Westeros
and events that precipitate the decline so they will probably try to show off these kinds of things (especially considering the success of GoT and the immediate success of HotD means they will likely have the budget for it).
>>29080He has a weird obsession with medieval opulence, royal hunts, feasts, weddings. Understandable if you look at the guy.
Personally, I thought the "Tyrion getting knocked out before the battle" was worse. Could have done that off screen without such a clear cop out.
New episode tomorrow, Any predictions?
I think there will be a ball
I also found that HOTD has a making of for each episode
https://www3.zoechip(DOT)com/watch-tv/the-house-that-dragons-built-87373.8946679>>29111>Any predictions?They will attempt some kind of kino thing to show the transition from young Rhaenyra to old Rhaenyra because apparently this is the last episode with Milly Alcock.
>>29113>>29116He has said multiple times that Samwell Tarly is most similar to him realistically.
>>29142 (me)
nvm it was about him being gay
>>29142>was that comment about goose and that she likes to eat that instead a remark about her not liking to fuck black dudes?For real it did come off like that for a second. Between that and Ser Gaybash it felt like the episode was throwing a bone to the anti-woke crowd or something.
>>29145Doesn't happen that way in the books. It's a tourney "accident" instead. They didn't want to spend the budget on another tourney scene and/or have
3 in one season.
>>29147His morals are a bit spookey, but him telling Rhaenyra to not be her side bitch was pretty cool. The show has some scenes showing that women far higher ranking than you can be abusive for the man. I mean their first sex was barely consensual.
So far how politics go the show has done very well to depict women's issues without forgetting that feudalism is shitty for everyone, including men.
Creston the Mad Cuck needs to be put down like the dog he is
I was joking but he straight up commited a hate crime
I feel bad for the gay dudes :(
Team Rhaynera for ever, I fucking hate Alicent and her team-up with him now and Daemon is just insane
>>29150True, that part in the forest, he reminds her that she's complaining about her forced marriage, he tells her that anyone else would gladly switch places and his family's position
This is after all still a time where only rich people got to be fat and nobody had to watch their calories
People dropped dead from the oddest diseases
>>29150>His morals are a bit spookeyMaybe, but the punishment he'd get if he was found out is very real. Joffrey badly miscalculated, not just by assuming that Rhaenyra/Criston was a similar situation to him/Laenor, but by not considering that his secret vs Cristons carry very very different weight for each of them. On the one hand he was arguably doing a gesture of goodwill. On the other, he revealed he knew too much
and that he didn't realize the gravity of the situation
and that he was a blabbermouth. Criston was definitely acting out of fear/rage/whatever but he kills him in the books too and it's probably the correct calculated move from the angle of self-defense/preservation.
>I mean their first sex was barely consensual. He literally said no and tried to get out of it. What was he gonna do, arrest the princess he's sworn to protect? Btw this is a social context where rape is basically considered a property crime whereby a woman's "value" in a marriage transaction is "ruined." Consent is barely a consideration when it happens to a woman.
>So far how politics go the show has done very well to depict women's issues without forgetting that feudalism is shitty for everyone, including men.I mean yeah as dumb as (lethal) fights breaking out during the tourney was, there were some thematic layers to that the way they intercut it with the birth scene.
>>29151Everyone keeps calling him a cuck/incel but he's literally the opposite. Laenor is the one to get cucked. Criston is the Dornish BVLL. He just wanted to be more than the fuccboi because fuccbois lose penis privilege.
>I feel bad for the gay dudes :(Blame the writers for burying more gays. His death was because he was an idiot, only indirectly because he was gay. If he didn't take a stupid risk without feeling out the situation/personalities first he'd be alive.
>Team Rhaynera>picking teams in the GoTverseasking for trouble lol
>>29176I get why the rebelled now, What a crazy kingdom
Has there ever been a wedding ceremony/related in Westeroes that hasn't been bloody?
>>29176Those guys were minor houses (Brackens and Blackwoods). Baratheons are lords of the Stormlands, right south of the Crownlands (where King's Landing is). The scene is in Storm's End, the Baratheon castle. Those minor houses are from the riverlands, another neighboring region (northwest).
house logos
>1: blackwood>2: bracken>3: baratheonYou can see why it's confusing lol.
>>29215Because it's awesome and cool
cesseraxx is my favourite dragon
he also has some disability i think, can't remember what
>>29151>Team Rhaynera for ever,t. Ser Cole
Enjoy your smug Targayen princess. At least you got to fuck her once, now you'll be on a leash like Mormont the turbo simp
>get dishonored after she came home from some borderline incest sex action with Daemon in a brothel, high on coke >Viserys, a nerd, but nonetheless wise ruler of a long-time stable kingdom, sacks his trusted advisor because he has a weak spot for females and of course for his retarded daughter >Smug princess all of a sudden agrees to marry. Smug princess tells her future husband right away that she dishonored you and intends to use you further as her sex toy >you seriously think this deranged person loves you>you ask her to marry you, she declines>not so bright bf of gay husband accidently tells you how fucked you are >you murder him on the wedding of your mistress, ruining for Viserys this very important day>seppuku yes/no? >meanwhile, smug princess flirts and almost makes out with Daemon again, this time right in front of Viserys>Viserys collapses >>29253why do you hate seeing a women slay?
she was my goat ever since she rode that dragon into daemon's castle and mogged him
that's a true ruler, wit and prowess
btw isn't ser cole now batting for lady alicent's team? or is he still pinning for her?
nvm don't spoil me
>>29254>(shameless advertising for the new show lol)shit i just realized that, we are getting played
>>29264>it is in season 5 I think when we get that "prophecy" which isn't in the book I think about Arya killing the Night King who also doesn't exist in the books.damn I
kinda forgot that happened but you are correct except they put that in season 3
>>29282this is why the actually killed him
still the most fucked up got killer
why would you kill hot babes for no reason, just sadistic
i think he would've become like mageor the cruel
does reincarnation exist in GoT
what is the universe called
>>29312>I don't know who is enjoying this show more, those who know the lore or novice viewers getting lore dropped each episodeIt's an excellent idea for content to adapt from a marketing perspective for exactly this reason and the dynamic between the groups. You get people cryptically posting about things that are about to happen (like which team they're on) that gets noobs intrigued and hyped. There's also lots of speculation about how thing will be adapted, because the premise of the book is that the narrators are unreliable because they are chronicling history that they don't fully know. I'm waiting to see this minichad.
>Alt Shift XYeah there's a whole cottage industry of people explaining the "deep lore" lol. I think the other big one is Hax Dogma but idk if they are following HotD. Alt Shift X seems to have the best production value with the visual aids.
>>29313who is he
i hope he makes fun of daemon
i remember there was a funny GoT-esque parody internet animation that included a jester character
>>29405Yeah, he made himself Lord of Harrenhall with that trick.
>>29406No, she's daughter of Otto Hightower. She's nobility. Viserys should have booted Otto much earlier. This is all because of his ambition pretty much. He finessed Alicent into being queen consort and planted the ideas of succession crisis in her head. The marriage offer would have quashed the potential succession issue if Alicent was reasonable (or if Viserys had a spine since he could go over her head about it), but being used as a political tool tends to fuck people up. So Otto was the saboteur but the buck stops with Viserys for letting things get to that point.
>>29407Fuck he really did that, They didn't show much of his relations with them, whether they treated him badly
It was so cold-blooded, seeing that hand pop out, Fuck
Tearing out the tongues on top of that, He's the evilest fucker in westeroes rn
>but being used as a political tool tends to fuck people upDo you think the rat is making him realize how bad things are now?
I really thought Harwin was gonna live long with the way, people were talking about him
He was so handsome
>>29408>He's the evilest fucker in westeroes rnPretty much.
>He was so handsomeHarwin looks like gigachad IRL, but he was too hotheaded and shouldn't have gotten the princess pregnant THREE times lol.
>Do you think the rat is making him realize how bad things are now? Doesn't matter cuz Viserys has no spine. He would just keep ignoring it.
The rat is probably going to be important given how much they are showing it. Won't say why but there are theories.
I watched some recaps vids and now it's feels very motivated that they ended both rahneyra's and daemon's lovers in the same episode, with the same fate fire
It's sad, but it's like they're planning to bring that "OTP" again
Also anything think it's kinda fucked that Layena just upped and dipped? Anyone women in that time would in that situation, but it was a little hilarious
Like if I was there, I would like just threaten the suicide by Vaghara until he promised he wouldn't go ahead with the caseran
I honestly felt like Daemon wasn't going to follow his brother, He doesn't seem to care about having heirs\
The dragon was so sad and old :(
>>29410>shouldn't have gotten the princess pregnant THREE times lolThose punches at the wedding to rescue her, Really sealed the deal for her lol
>but there are theoriesThere's a small footnote in westorosi history where the rat and visery's team up and he ratallouie's the iron throne with him providing him the spine to fight back
>>29477Why did his mom make him delete it
>>29484>They totally stole that scene with Aegon jerking off in the window from The BoysMore like Succession, Aegon is so much like Roman
A brat, in line of a big empire, doesn't care much, only does for the ego
Then again, all three are a bit same
But I'm pretty sure Shitlander did that after getting his ass beat or something
These two only did it for the thrill of feeling better than commoners
> the cripple depraved and evil, is an old TV trope I could live withoutVery true, I was trying to insult his ass but I kept coming up with something ableist
I finally decided on insulting him based on his shoe choice
>>29480>Why did his mom make him delete itbecause he posted cringe
>>29480>There's a small footnote in westorosi history where the rat and visery's team up and he ratallouie's the iron throne with him providing him the spine to fight backlol but the actual theory (potential major spoilers) is that
Larys Strong is a greenseer/warg like Bran Stark and is spying on people with rats and possibly with the weirwood trees.
>>29484>They totally stole that scene with Aegon jerking off in the window from The Boys.100% lol. It also appears to be the same window (or at least the same set) where
King Tommen commits suicide late in GoT.
>New actors are good.Yep, across the board. I was surprised how much I liked Laenor and his version of the character.
>I still get the feeling they deliberately want to appeal to an "anti-woke" crowd as they don't follow most conventions I've seen in shows the last years; and they are doing a good job.I get this feeling too but I would say they are
way overshooting the mark.
They did Laena really dirty by not even referencing how she got Vhagar, just the fact that she had to earn her. They even teased it when Laena was introduced (as a child that Viserys was not keen to marry), talking about Vhagar being missing and Laena's fascination with dragons. But they don't even discuss how Laena went on a whole quest to find her. And then in the same episode we first see Laena as an adult she dies. My one big gripe about the show so far is how hard a lot of the female characters have been getting jobbed. They also did Rhea extremely dirty, dying in the same scene she's introduced. These are characters who actually do shit in the book but they basically only appear in the show to get bridges dropped on them. With Aemma in the first episode it's one thing (especially since it's a major point of transition to kick off the series) and helps establish some of the themes, but it's starting to get tiresome IMO considering the book treats these characters better than "women exist to be fridged." It's largely a consequence of the show moving so fast and that character deaths like these are a major recurring plot point and therefore something you really can't skip. I think this season is really just trying to establish the broad family dynamics so that the rest of the series can flesh out the coming war.
What is up with all those bad reviews here?
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/house_of_the_dragon/s01/reviews?type=userAre those paid Amazon shills from Rings of Power or are people just this dumb that they can't follow the plot? The one good thing about HotD is that you have to pay attention and not have cheap exposition like in the first GoT episode where they literally introduce every character by Arya pointing at them. And I didn't even read the book and walked in blind, and could follow just fine.
Also, people don't appreciate a slow burn these days. Even though GoT also wasn't that fast-paced.
>>29497 (me)
Imagine being this bitter that you won't even give one star because something isn't up your alley.
There is even the occasional retard that complains about wokeness, even though this is like the most anti-woke show in years. When will those people be satisfied, when it's literally like Conan the Barbarian?
>>29497Filtered:
>There is no protagonist or antagonist so you can't root for anyone and eventually you don't really care what happens to the characters.>It has none of the assets that made game of thrones compelling and a must watch.>My main issue with this is they have given me no character to care about. None of them is sympathetic or amusing or witty or any of the many hooks that draw me into a series.>No one really wants anything so who cares what happens?>Clearly they are milking it and drawing the show out.>My honest opinion is that while I was invested and did like the show I cannot support a show that hates me for my political beliefs.>Apart of from the characters having the same names as the first series, the narratives have changed completely, without any completion or explanation of what is actually happening.>Soap-opera.>Succession, where Gulfstreams are replaced with dragons and castles substitute for office towers. Sadly, without the snappy dialogue, acting, or plot. It's inconceivable that this is the "better" of the two series HBO commissioned.>Sitting around tables, talking about weddings and heirs. Boring and slow. What the hell happened?Decent points:
>Second-rate characters die so quickly that there is no sympathy for them. Do we have to be sad about the death of someone who has seen 3 times in all time, and who has two lines of text?>but show is rushed with the constant extreme time jobs every two episodes>Too much replacement of actors to which they are already accustomed.>From the constant time skips without informing audience, to unexplained cliffhangers or character reasoning lost in time just skipping ahead, to overall cast swaps >>29492>They even teased it when Laena was introducedVery true, I didn't even realise there was going to be a pay-off
It was very cool lore building but they fumbled without telling us how she completed her quest
Why are they moving the show so fast, I'm confused
I thought each season is going to be about each house, if it's just going to be war the next seasons, they should slowly tend to it
>>29501I don't understand how Alicent is better for the realm, They've shown nothing
They created so many props for this show man, I'm watching the EP6 making of and they half maked the books in the library lol
But anyone else think it's kinda fucked they mess with these real life old castles and change them?
Granted pigeons were living in them before but still
>>29502Snowpiercer is one of the most woke? I mean it did focus on class, but I don't think that much
Can you expand further?
>>29508>Why are they moving the show so fast, I'm confused 1st season will be the lead-up to the Dance, and the actual war will be the next seasons. They probably didn't like the idea of multiple seasons of buildup for various reasons including being accused of being too slow and not having enough material to fill 2 seasons instead of 1.
>>29501Yeah the whole idea is that nobody is particularly good. People are confused about this because the TV interpretation of House Stark made them come across as at worst a very light shade of grey. Even Arya who becomes a murderous assassin is portrayed as yass queen instead of how the books makes her story about a child losing innocence, being traumatized, and recruited as a child soldier. The show really passed a lot of things through a "hollywood filter."
>The best character in GoT: The Spider (in my opinion) would most likely side with Alicent as a person more fitting for the Realm as a whole. He probably would, because her son could be plied with lewd paintings into doing whatever Varys told him. Similarly to how Margery usurped Cersei's influence over Tommen.
BTW people are mad at Alicent not because of qualifications (which the show doesn't seem to care about that much at this point), but because in the last episode she needlessly inflamed the conflict. Nobody else in King's Landing gives a fuck about MUH RULES except sir krispy kreme. Rhaenyra was not coming for her kids, and definitely would have done the marriage to avert the conflict (which btw doesn't just endanger the nobles - wars of succession kill loads of commoners). Insofar as Alicent is willing to stoke a war over paranoia, she is worse than Rhaenyra. And the fact that she bumbled her way into enabling Larys to do a mass murder by arson makes her seem incompetent in a dangerous way.
>>29512>They created so many props for this show man, I'm watching the EP6 making of and they half maked the books in the library lolYeah, the production value can never be faulted in these shows any more. We're a far cry from GoT season 1 where the "royal hunt" was 4 guys walking through the woods.
>But anyone else think it's kinda fucked they mess with these real life old castles and change them?IDK enough about it to have a firm opinion but old castles are commercialized in a lot of ways that are probably more damaging than this. At least when they are being exploited for money there is incentive to try to maintain them somewhat rather than letting them crumble.
Should be noted that most castles do not exist any more because they were usually built form wood and have long ago rotted away. Stone castles (and buildings in general) were always the minority but are vastly overrepresented in the archaeological record.
>>29502?
Are you really denying the use of ostensible social progressivism as a marketing tactic? Are you new here?
>>29513Was there a distinction between in nobility in stone castles and wood castles?
Also in the episode they talked about architecture of westeros, italian renaissance and middle eastern type build
is that how really how it is
>>29517>Marketing and what tabloids say about a film with a diverse cast are two different things.They all exist in an ecosystem and have de fact become extensions of marketing departments. This includes randos posting their theories and hot takes on youtube or tiktok or twitter. All of social media functions as a marketing project, not just the actual ads they show. They're free to use because you are the product, having your tastes and consumer behavior be "influenced" by the content.
>Annihilation was an all woman cast and never marketed as progressive despite the fact that it could've been easily marketed as such.And that highlights that it's just a marketing tactic. It's not small arthouse movies like Annihilation that studios want to push. They aren't going to invest a lot of marketing into a film that cost about 50 million dollars when they have projects that cost 300+ million dollars that need to make that back. The whole point of the critique of wokeness-as-marketing is precisely that it is cynical and uninterested in actual social progress or indeed proper examples of what it purports to promote, like Annihilation.
>>29528>Was there a distinction between in nobility in stone castles and wood castles?Yeah, it's a lot more expensive to quarry stone and to do masonry than to fell trees and do carpentry. IDK enough about the history to assert this as fact, but I imagine the gradual deforestation of Europe around the period also contributed to a scarcity of timber at times that encouraged building things out of stone. And of course there's the question of permanency and flammability. It was also pretty common for castles to have a permanent stone structure but add wooden extensions in anticipation of a siege or something. Picrelated.
from here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoarding_(castle)Another factor to consider is rot, and it was a fairly common tactic for even commoner buildings to have stone walls on the ground and upper walls made of wood, because that kept a lot of the moisture away from the wood.
>Also in the episode they talked about architecture of westeros, italian renaissance and middle eastern type buildNot an architecture guy but they have had a number of influences, and Renaissance Italy is probably the most obvious. IDK how appropriate it is for the setting considering the historical background of the renaissance and the relative intellectual backwardness of Westeros.
>>29537GoT exists on a huge spectrum from good to bad, which actually makes it a handy scale for rating another show. I'd give HotD about a Season 5 on the GoT scale.
>>29540> relative intellectual backwardness of WesterosIs westeros really backward in INT points?
who's the smartest bloke that ever existed there
>>29543The Renaissance was a revival of "lost knowledge" of classical antiquity, particularly Greece and Rome. Westeros is in the world's equivalent of the medieval dark age between the fall of the Roman Empire (Doom of Valyria and the end of the Age of Heroes before that) and the Renaissance or Enlightenment (hasn't happened in the show's universe). The loss of both STEM types of knowledge and magic is a central theme of the series. So it's a little weird to take inspiration from golden age periods IRL where this was overcome. There's plenty of aesthetics to take from the "high middle ages" too, but people tend to think that it's all drab and covered in shit because that's how it's often been portrayed. GRRM wrote the original books inspired by historical events like the Hundred Years' War and the War of the Roses, for comparison on historical context.
>who's the smartest bloke that ever existed thereIDK about raw intellect but Bran the Builder probably had access to the most advanced technology and magic considering all the things he created that nobody can even imagine how to build anymore like The Wall.
>>29651Alicent is waging a national liberation struggle and goes to town with those foreign dragon freaks. She is on your side.
>>29537>The show is much worse than GOT but at least it's 10x better than Lord of the ShitI've rewatched the first few episodes of GoT and it isn't. The directing is much sharper, the acting is much more smitten. GoT looks aged compared to HotD.
>>29653>If Rahynera wants to really break and reinvent the throne, She should just take two husbands,>Aegon didn't give a fuck?Daemon made the same argument at the beginning of the season, and the two of them look bad anyway for marrying directly after their previous spouses died ("died").
>What's the most visery's would've done, alicent literally stabbed her first child and he still let her beViserys is a huge pussy lol.
>What usually happens to progressive characters in GoTverse that try to be trailblazers? If they commit hard enough they can succeed. Aegon the conqueror succeeded in (mostly) uniting the continent.
>>29671I loved those majestic night sea scenes. Really beautiful.
>the show has been too dark The inside scenes are indeed dark, however this is how it really looks inside a castle that is only lit with fire. They capture this mood quite realistically and it does look good, in my opinion.
>>29653That's also pissing me off that the show is unironically trying to put Alicent in a negative light compared to Rhaenyra. It's the most GoT dumb and dumber part of the script that reminds me of the absolute shit that was the last seasons of GoT. They film the Uncle and Niece sex scene in a sensual way which is cringy as a motherfucker instead of what it is, creepy ass incest. Maybe some anons in this thread were right that they are still trying to girl boss Rhaenyra. I love everything with Alicent because in this world her righteous anger IS justified. Rhaenyra is a privileged little shit from a royal line going back a hundred years. While yes Alicent also comes from privilege, she's a native to Westiros and she's part of a noble house yes, but certainly not as privileged.
I was happy what they were doing at the end there till we find out that she did fake Laenors death which gives Rhaenyra the *girl boss" pass.
>>29665I don't want her
Also I'm 100% sure the greens are doing it for themselves, They have shown ZERO good negotiation skills or ruling skills
Whereas Raheynra's has repeatedly solved conflicts on her own wit
Stop criminalizing PoD (Persons of Dragons)
They're a minority refugee
>>29666That rat did fuck all to ring up his brain, I swear he's gonna die in between the friendly fire between Alicent and Rahenyra, goofy ass
Aegon was progressive? In what way
>>29671I'm glad it wasn't me, I tried to configurate my monitor but couldn't with HDR or off, it looked like ass
I don't know how Better Call Saul has good night visuals but not HOTD with so many millions
>>29686She literally tried to stab a kid's eye out for barbarianism
Greenheads are savage defenders
>>29689They said they changed something from the books, Was that the changes? Laenor dies in the books?
>>29707The Hand of the King sits on the throne when acting on behalf of the king.
>>29696>Honestly what is killing Visery'sHe cuts himself on the throne in episode 1 and it's implied he does it now and then. Cuts get infected and necrotic. There's a little gimmick in-universe where the throne is supposed to be dangerous and that people who are bad at the job get hurt sitting on it. One guy even allegedly died on the throne getting stabbed.
>>29695>I don't know how Better Call Saul has good night visuals but not HOTD with so many millionsBCS actually shoots at night with high-sensitivity cameras. This episode of HotD was using the old day-for-night technique where you shoot during the day and then just turn the brightness down and/or adjust the colors basically. The giveaway is the shadows. When it's supposed to be dusk at the funeral you can see sharp, overhead shadows giving away that it was actually mid-day.
>>29695>Aegon was progressive? In what wayUniting the 7 Kingdoms and installing comparatively modern institutions that developed Westeros further. Not a huge leap but under the Targs things are generally an improvement vs the many kingdoms bickering with each other. History tends toward consolidating and centralizing, and Aegon served that process.
>>29690>there is no peasant faction in the series to latch on toBrotherhood Without Banners are Robin Hood-esque.
The Sparrows kind of, with Bernie Sanders Pope.
It's fucked up how HOTD got me rooting for this technically creepy relation, But I'm not really
I was at first but not now
>>29715>The Hand of the King sits on the throne when acting on behalf of the king.Oh it is so over Visery's bros….
>History tends toward consolidating and centralizing, and Aegon served that processSo in way we're like Aegon, trying to unite the nations and classes under one
RED communist banner and eventually to none
Why does history tend towards centralizing? That's interesting
>>29751lol, all he does is walk into some shocking scene and says "Gods be good". Honestly he seems like a shit Lord Commander.
>>29792>applying terms like fascist or communist to a feudal society Come on now. The only progressive faction would be the Iron Bank of Bravos as part of an emerging bourgeoisie.
Also Rhaenyra and Daemon will be become increasingly assholish later. >>29697I don't think medieval society was this dehumanizing, but I guess it serves GRRM's grimdark approach. There were plenty of commoners who were knighted after having served splendidly in battle. Problem was they could never afford armor so they fell back into commonhood.
Also, he does include them. Brienne's travel through the Riverlands features the lives of commoners plenty.
>>29792I root for the Targs because they're right fucking freaks
Not pretending like Alicunt and her holier than thou shit
Their true monarch material
Weird, Incestuous, Pass down esoteric knowledge
If I didn't hate alicent before that line "Where is duty, sacrifice?" was enough
Such dogmatic, idealistic view for a princess who sits all day, feasting and plotting in the throne rooms, while the actual folk do all that duty and sacrifice
She has suffered, She got her identity and childhood stripped, but that isn't Rhaneyra's fault at all.
Instead of showing that anger to her father she shows it to rhanyera, who just wants to rule her realm justly and fuck her uncle
Alicent is 1000% wrong, you can't convince me
>>29803He looks so handsome but damn… even criston cole gets more shit done
All he does is give looks like 0_0
And then :/
>>29857pic related, graph of book material they are adapting in GoT
You can really see how it correlates with a decline in quality. Only goes up to season 6, but beyond that they weren't really adapting anything anyway.
>>29810>If I didn't hate alicent before that line "Where is duty, sacrifice?"Anarchist detected, of course you prefer smug wreckers
>isn't Rhaneyra's fault at all.Viserys keeps making stupid decisions which favour this smug skank at least based on some mythical prophecy about her offspring supposedly being chosen to save Westeros (wrong, more than others Starks turned out being those "chosen" ones, not Targayens), Rhaenyra on the other hand is entirely driven by arrogance, emotions and complete disregard for others, almost the same goes for Daemon. Daemon is a good fighter though, Rhaenyra the "chosen" wannabe ruler can't get anything done on her own, she's been entirely reliant on Viserys & Daemon so far
>29856I don't care how it was done, it came out great. Good for them if they achieved it with being lazy, others might put more effort in only to yield an average result.
>>29858I said i liked GoT characters better, not that i think that the HotD characters are shit. I think HotD isn't worse than GoT at all, it's just as entertaining and well written, including the characters, however i just do not like the characters as much as i liked a lot of the GoT characters. It's a show about Targayens after all, so it must be different. I didn't like any of the Targayen characters in GoT either.
>>30053Greenlet detected, Opinion ejected
The Dragons ruled the seven kingdoms for a 100 years
They will rule the next hundred!
HOUSE TARGAREYEN IS AN-COM GANGFUCK CRISTON COLE, THAT VILE UNCOUTH DEMON
FUCK DISCOUNT DRACO MALFOY
AND FUCK OLD TOWN!
>>30054I need to know more about jaeherys, he looks just like viserys but knew to dip
How did he die
I gotta read up on how exactly fedualism was overthrown
Cause logically speak this just doesn't make any sense, dynasties, kings,
Those well fit men lifting a dude up in the chair just to help him eat,
It's like that story of elephants imprisoned with shackles, but even after outgrowing them, their mind still only knows those shackles
The soft power on the common folk remains,
How the people overthrew, and unshackled them of this, is fascinating
How capitalism reshackled them slowly again, It must be interesting
>>30086>I don't know the name of raheyrna's sister but she has the happiest person in that familyHelaena or however it's spelt.
>>30090>Can swords do that in real life?The cutting through a head part yeah that's possible, especially if you attack someone who's standing perfectly still and wind up a hard swing. You can get some blades very very sharp, too. They did overdo it a bit with how clean of a cut it was, but pretty sure that Daemon used the sword Dark Sister, which is Valyrian steel and holds an extremely keen edge. It's also a particularly light/thin sword so it arguably would pass through flesh easier.
>>30100Why is it called dark sister? really a thin blade would pass through easier? I would've thought there would be bones and stuff, like the skull
It's crazy how much daemon gets away with, They've only shown the castle, but I wonder if they will lie to the driftwood people about how the prince died
>>30102>Why is it called dark sister?IDK, it was used by Aegon the Conqueror's sister maybe that's why.
>really a thin blade would pass through easier? Yeah, that's how a wedge works. The thinner the less material has to move.
>I would've thought there would be bones and stuff, like the skullThere is, although cutting at the mouth means you have the least bone to cut through if you're cutting through someone's head. It's the jaw and the neck bones mostly.
>but I wonder if they will lie to the driftwood people about how the prince diedPrincess Rhaenys was there. Pronouncing someone guilty of treason is a valid reason to execute them. The Mad King Aerys (before GoT) killed a shitload of people before enough was enough.
>>30107I think GRRM dragons are self fertile or some weird shit like that though.
>>30144no fucking way, post them
that's some crazy cope
the greens are religiods and dynasty fucks just like the targs
>>30110> The thinner the less material has to moveThat's deep
I would've thought more force will help it move faster
>I think GRRM dragons are self fertile No way, autofertile dragoooons
>>30100I would assume that at least you'd need to be restrained on a scaffold for it to be able to go through your jaw, this scene broke the immersion for me because it was shot like some 80s B-movie horror. No need other than for shock value.
Plus, plot-wise it would have been cooler to have Viserys slashing him, give the old man a final badass moment before he croaks.
Other than that I liked the episode, although it felt transitional.
>>30145They are not religious freaks, they are trying to find something to connect to their subjects, which is the faith of the people of Westeros, to find a counternarrative to the Targarayans, who are incestuous foreign invaders.
>>30146>I would've thought more force will help it move fasterIf you are cutting through something efficiently you want to require the least amount of force. You are essentially pushing the matter away on either side of the blade, an the less distance you have to push the less force is required. The most questionable part here is cutting through the bone, which usually requires chopping rather than slicing, which is why meat cleavers are so heavy. But they cut through the part of the head with the least bone so it's not as bad as it could have been. Sometimes you see shit where a character gets the top of their head cut off which is extremely silly.
>>30155>I would assume that at least you'd need to be restrained on a scaffold for it to be able to go through your jawEh not really. People can get arms lopped clean off with swords.
>this scene broke the immersion for me because it was shot like some 80s B-movie horrorYeah that was goofy. Probably did it that way to make it easier on the VFX team.
>plot-wise it would have been cooler to have Viserys slashing himNah, I think Daemon backing him up works better for the scene. Same as when he helped him to the throne. In spite of everything else, here is one moment when they act like a family.
>They are not religious freaks, they are trying to find something to connect to their subjects, which is the faith of the people of WesterosI think Olivia Cooke (Alicent) said that it's cope to try to redeem the outburst where she demanded to have a child mutilated and tried to stab Rhaenyra. I do like that this is criticizing "muh honor" from a slightly different angle than how it was with the Starks in GoT.
>>30155okay greenoid, whatever you say
remind me again who did alicent marry her son and daughter to again?
they are freaks, but at least they have an identity, unlike the hightowers "saints" trying to have it all
>>30157>Nah, I think Daemon backing him up works better for the sceneTrue, it was so hot
That was a one last bro-out
>>30157>Eh not really. People can get arms lopped clean off with swords.European medieval swords were not made for cutting, but for breaking bones and splitting chainmails (because you don't need cutting if everyone is in armor anyway). I guess we are supposed to believe that Dark Sister is this super special sword but I don't really buy it. Still, I believe it would've been more realistic if he was wielding a scimitar or a sabre, they specifically made for cutting through flesh.
>Probably did it that way to make it easier on the VFX team.I absolutely like the show but they need to get more professional. Episode 7 was great but ruined by catastrophic night shots. Now we get this 80s John Carpenter death scene.
>>30159>they are freaks, but at least they have an identity, unlike the hightowers "saints" trying to have it allBro, the Hightowers absolutely do have an identity, they protect the Citadel, and are one of the proudest and oldest houses in the realm. They are as ur-Westerosi as you can get.
As the show goes on you'll also realize who the common people support, just wait for it. >>30174i swear it's the same person meming
>>30175we all thought he was gonna end up killing viserys…
>>30173GoT had a couple communist factions to sympathize with:
-The Wildlings: not ML, rather an-com, definitely a real communist faction anyway
-The Norf (Starks): aligned with the wildlings, political ethics rather left leaning as well though still monarchist with hereditary transfer of leadership
-The Night's Watch: does not give a shit about class and heritage at all, in fact it commands that "noble" members must abandon all privileges and private property they were used to and they are not allowed to own land, leaders get elected based on merit. It's pretty much a socialist military order, sort of like early christian military orders, but more socialist
-The Brotherhood Without Banners: socialist/communist guerilla group dedicated to protecting the smallfolk from reactionary forces (Lannister), aligned with the Starks
-there's probably more i forgot about
HotD is kinda lacking in that regard, so far only Alicent, Aemond and Otto are the closest to being lefty due to their commitment to duty and justice. There was a brief scene where Otto was talking about taxes, so the Hightowers actually do care about economics, trade, science and diplomacy, while the deranged black Targayens only care about power struggle so they can keep their status and privileges, which is reactionary as fuck.
>>30191>Wildlingsanprim
>Norfmonbol
>Night's Watchliterally prisoner-operated gulags
>BWBMutualists
>Sparrowsliberation theology
>>30201no no i understood that, but like how does it work
a royal bloodline tries to unite the realm and break classes under feudalism? it's a very confusing meme ideology
>>30191>There was a brief scene where Otto was talking about taxes<so the Hightowers actually do care about economics, trade, science and diplomacyLeftism is when you do fedual taxes and the more taxes you do the more leftist you are
Better an anarchist than a
SOCDEM
>while the deranged black Targayens only care about power struggleSaying this while literally all the hightowers have done is use all the tax payer money to build giant stars and remove targareyn history off king's landing
And literally in the EP9 preview they've launched a power struggle to steal the throne, If there was a god, he would squash the greens like the pests they're bismillah
I genuinely feel so much hatred towards all of alicent's children, they're not targareyns, bastard fake wig wearing, the strong children are more targs than them
Why couldn't Visery's dick have fallen off first 😣
Aegon III should take the throne after Rahneyra
>>30251Also how tf do they keep the lore consistent and remembered
there's so many threads, and plots
holy shit,
The other side to this though is, the nobility were the best trained, best fed, best equipped, for their whole lives.
Imagine you are a peasant, spend your days farming or whatever, perhaps even smithing to give you a big giant arm. Maybe you are even a good fist fighter down the local.
Anyway you come up against a guy who has never missed a meal in his life, trained every day with a sword and the best sword teacher around, since they were able to hold one, in the finest armour in the land, and also they are on a horse, and also have paid up goons.
You're fucked. You are not going to survive that fight, and if you do, you're getting hung anyway
>>30269You mean
inbreeding. In
terbreeding would be the opposite and might have fixed the problem.
Inbreeding = breeding within a group
interbreeding = breeding between different groups
>>30269i'm confused on how inbreeding caused them to have no heir
did they not make enough children or they all die because of medical problems?
this also gets me really confused on the first men, how did they survive all the inbreeding problem and expand and create different gene pools
>>30270how did the untrained peasants win in the end? either their forces were too many or the nobles got lazy and stopped training
>>30290>i'm confused on how inbreeding caused them to have no heirThe more you inbreed the less likely a pregnancy makes it to term, less likely the baby survives, etc. Inbreeding doesn't just give you le habsburg jaw. It fucks up important biological processes down to the cellular level. If it's bad enough your shit just doesn't work at all.
>this also gets me really confused on the first men, how did they survive all the inbreeding problem and expand and create different gene poolsThe First Men were a whole population of people not just a couple noble houses. You need something like 800 people minimum to avoid genetic issues down the line. They probably had a lot more than that.
>>30290>I always have really vivid dreams when I sleep bad.in the case of Russia, the heir was born with heamophilia and this is how Rasputin entered the scene, because the Tsarina got into mystic and spiritual healing to try and cure her son. Rasputin came to have a big influence on the royals but was not trusted by the Russian people who were mostly orthodox, which further weakened the prestige of the crown. he was accussed of heresy and rape and so on, and he probably was a sex pest and possibly fucked the tsarina.
Anyway, haemophilia is hereditary and it was passed into several other european royal families like the spanish and prussian.
It wasn't a main reason why the monarchy failed, but it was certainly a contributing factor. Given the institutionalised nature of providing a healthy heir, this probably also put strain on the marriage of the Tsar, added to his stress levels, generally happiness and mood etc.
>first men they were monkeys long before, and we interbred with neanderthals and stuff later on, there was enough of us before there was even humans.
>>30290I think a part of it was the development of better weaponry that was more easily accessible to larger amounts of people. I believe the black death is supposed to be a big factor also in the weakening of feudalism in Europe.
But ultimately, it was the allegiance of the working class, peasantry and merchant class which ultimately destroyed feudalism, as the merchant class become powerful enough to armed and train the peasants against the royals to their own bourgeoise ends
>>30311is it as high as 800? i've seen a bunch of shit saying the optimum primitive human society numbers was like 150, but i suppose people did trade women and stuff back then which probably loosened things up and also was a reason women would become property.
With the 800 number though, and speaking about royalty, wonder how many royalty there actually were in europe at the time? and, for a Tsar of one of the great empires, not just any Royalty, but suitable royalty of your own station, a match that is beneficial for the nation and the royals family, and one that you have no grudge with which stops such a thing.
In fact come to think of it there is a pretty nice through line from primitive tribes trading women, to feudal royalty trading off their daughters,
>>30312>is it as high as 800? i've seen a bunch of shit saying the optimum primitive human society numbers was like 150So first of all, the necessary minimum to avoid inbreeding varies depending on how much diversity there is in the population. That's a rough and barely remembered estimate. IIRC it assumes an ideal population and a more realistic one would require something like 1200 people.
Second of all it's been very common across the globe for cultures to marry outside of their own community, probably because the ones that did this avoided inbreeding better and had healthier gene pools favored by natural selection. You just need a large enough and diverse enough population in the region so that you can have people (usually women) moving between communities. This also has major sociopolitical drivers because when you have members of your group marrying into members of another group it raises the stakes of any conflicts between you and incentivizes cooperation.
>>30313What I was trying to get at was, its like, the more royal you are, the higher up the chain, the less people there are for you to marry, and so, the more inbred you become, and the longer the various lines endure, the effect multiplies.
Its like biologically built in contradictions in feudalism.
Its… kinda beautiful. Sort of thing that makes you wonder about intelligent design and stuff
I don't know why are you so obsessed with a political analysis of the show. The point of GoT is the showcase the personal world of the nobility and focus on the political intrique which is at the same time familial intrique because feudalism. It's basically a soap opera with a medieval coat of paint. Like any other show about the everyday life of rich people, it can't provide a good basis for Marxist analysis because it's hard to engage in social critique while pretending that the working majority doesn't exist.
Yes, the world building is "realist", meaning that instead of medieval sagas and folk tales it mostly draws inspiration from actual pre-modern history, but taken as whole it's a mess from a historical materialist perspective. Every building block taken from real history is ripped from its actual context and makes no sense on its own. You have a medieval Italian merchant city-state next to ancient Greek slaveholding city-states. There are nomadic tribes invading from the East, but social impact of the destruction they cause is never truly shown, they are just kind of there. The continent which is analogous to medieval Europe is ruled by the descendants of an expansive empire that collapsed under it's own weight, similar to how in reality the largest state in Europe identified itself as the successor of the Roman Empire and ecclestial order ruling over most of Europe was based in Rome itself. There is a big and long-standing empire to the East which is constantly engaged in warfare against nomadic tribes. The setting even has a misterious abandoned city in in the middle of the jungle (Angkor Wat) All of this doesn't form a coherent whole. I get the rationale behind the fake realism, people identify with real history a lot more easily because nobody reads Beowulf today but everyone is forced to learn the general history of the world thanks to compulsory education. Still it isn't any closer to material reality besides the very surface-level critique of "chivalry is fake".
In most fantasy the role of religion is greatly diminished while in reality the church was extremely important for the ideological superstructure of European feudalism. Anything similar to a real-life church gets like one season in GoT, so for most of its duration this also applies to the show as well. Also similar to most fantasy, the supernatural elements and the structure of the narrative are based on a Manichean evil arising out of nowhere in the place of an all-encompassing ecclestial order based on eschatological narratives, the former of which is boring as hell, just like in any other fantasy. The only difference is that this is avoided for some time with a soap opera story structure in its place, but when the need arises to somehow end the show, the introduction of the approaching forces of evil comes off as even more forced. Some say that the shitty ending is the fault of the showrunners, which is definitely true to an extent, but nonetheless it should be taken as a rule that all story structures geared towards never-ending serialization can't be given a proper ending. This was the basis of How I Met Your Mother, and look at how that ended. There is a reason why GRRM refuses to write the last goddamn book in the series.
If you like soap with some extra violence and sex than that's fine, go ahead and watch HotD. If you want to experience how medieval people felt and thought, then consume fantasy that's actually based on medieval folklore, the "media" that people consumed back then. Arguably most fantasy is pure simulacra, people copying the particular way in which Tolkien attempted to assemble medieval folklore into a coherent whole by taking elements from here and there and setting all of it up against a Manichean evil that destroys nature and the natural order of things. So instead go straight for medieval folklore. Also read religious texts because very few fantasies do justice to Christianity and the church. Also read religious texts, mythology and folklore which isn't from medieval Europe, because only being interested a small section of the world is boring. And if you are really interested in history and how societies function, then watch some actual historical drama for fuck's sake. It might not represent reality well, but at very least it attempts to, which is a lot more than what we can say about fantasy.
>>30223I said they talked about economics and diplomacy and you get triggered by the word taxes, just like every neoliberal ancap lolbert. Impressive. Very nice.
Get the ancap flag already, m8. There is absolutely nothing communist about anarchists and never was, it's peak liberalism, hence anarchists of all sorts always choose to ally with the blackest reaction, be it the black Targayens or the USA. "Anarcho-communism" is an oxymoron
with emphasis on moron.
I'm ML by the way, not Socdem. But indeed i do prefer even the most lukewarm Social democrat over whatever anarchist. Socdems didn't wreck the DDR, anarshits did.
>>30320It was literally like
>it's a show about dragons so we need to include some dragonThis dumb scene ruined the episode for me. I am sure braindead fans will soyface over it.
>>30325Heh, he is gonna be around for some time.
>>30336t. butthurt Rings of Dung fan
The "soap opera" argument is literally how all the paid Amazon shills talk.
>If you want to experience how medieval people felt and thought, then consume fantasy that's actually based on medieval folklore, the "media" that people consumed back thenIf you wanna get all high and mighty about this shit, don't consume popculture in the first place. Also, most people consumed nothing of this, because they couldn't fucking read. Medieval texts were written mostly by clerics. I have nothing to say to the rest of your post because I would sit here for hours, especially your pathetic attempt to shoehorn Marxist terms into your pathetic "analysis".
>>30336Give us some of your recommendations for television and literature (fiction and non-fiction) fam.
>>30347>>30320Figures that was added by the TV writers, beyond retarded doing a stare down. Was Alicent hearing the Aegon story on Visery's deathbad added by them as well? That's the other thing that stands out as a contradiction in her character/logic in general. It makes her look dumb and naive. Like she's been scheming for 20 years about this and now she's getting emotional and is unsure of herself? Another girlboss moment.
>>30354>Was Alicent hearing the Aegon story on Visery's deathbad added by them as well?Every part of the Prince That Was Promised prophecy was added and not present in Fire and Blood. The special dagger was never suggested to be special in the books. It's just a Valyrian steel dagger that gets involved in the aGoT plot. It's not mentioned in Fire and Blood at all AFAIK. GRRM was involved with developing the show so IDK if he told them to make that a focal point of the plot or if it's their own ridiculous OC, but Aegon the Conqueror taking over Westeros because
he was the one who prophesized "the song of ice and fire" is an original addition by the show.
>Like she's been scheming for 20 years about this and now she's getting emotional and is unsure of herself?In the book (which is biased in her favor btw since it's written by Maesters who call Rhaenyra a fat ugly slut) she's characterized as being motivated to get her son on the throne. All this stuff is just texture the show added to make her more "believable" or "relatable" except they're giving the audience whiplash with changing attitudes.
>>30347But they still could have had that scene but infinitely less dumb, if Rhaenys had tried to get at the coronation stage but had been driven off by crossbowmen or something, or if she immediately had to flee on the dragon. this was just absolute lazy shlock.
>>30356Yeah I noticed that too, I guess we need to know how 'epic' this series is.
Also how did the Dragon break through anyway? Isn't this supposed to be a holding area specifically for Dragons? Bravo Nolan.
>>30356>>30360>Yeah I noticed that too, I guess we need to know how 'epic' this series is.That's actually the least stupid part of the scene because nobles do not think of the smallfolk as people
and it sets up events that will happen later with the smallfolk.
>Also how did the Dragon break through anyway? Isn't this supposed to be a holding area specifically for Dragons? Bravo Nolan.I don't think it's supposed to imprison fully grown dragons, just the babies while they are trained. For the adults I think it's more just a parking garage.
>>30374ayo what the fuck? i think filing their teeth is barbaric enough,
can you imagine that? getting your teeth filed? file filfe file file
>>30349It's soap, deal with it. You have given me 0 (zero) counterarguments to my well-founded observation.
>If you wanna get all high and mighty about this shitI'm not being high and mighty, I don't really care what kind of media people consume if they don't forget to touch grass from time to time and maybe read some theory too.
>Also, most people consumed nothing of this, because they couldn't fucking read. Medieval texts were written mostly by clerics.I mentioned many kinds of art forms, but looking at folklore in particular, their very definition is that they are tales exchanged by common people. Examining the ideology of the ruling class also tells you a lot about a certain era.
>>30354I don't know, watch HotD I guess? Recently I only play video games and listen to music in my free time. Was my wall of text that discouraging to a show watcher? Actually, there is an exception. I started watching the Chinese Drama "Three Kingdoms" recently. It's okay I guess. A bit boring but I can't articulate any real problem with the show. Also historical drama can be truly bad as a basis for Marxist analysis. I watched some episodes from a show about Sissi, the wife of Franz Joseph. It was amazing how a story about the partner of the ruler of one of the biggest, most diverse and just plain interesting empires within Europe can have so little to do with politics. It was basically on the level of the propaganda that appears in the British press about their precious queen/king. "Does the prince/king like me? UwU" for the interity of the show. Which is understandable because the show was Austrian and Austrians have no basis for their national identity other than worshipping the Habsburgs.
>>30392>It's soap, deal with it. You have given me 0 (zero) counterarguments to my well-founded observation.Can you give an example of a TV show that isn't "soap" then? Because the way I see it most shows people hold dear, from the Sopranos to Rome to Breaking Bad have elements of "soap" in to a level very similar to HotD. Your observation wasn't well-founded, so no well-founded counter-arguments were necessitated. You basically just said that the way the show is written is not in line with how medieval historiography was conducted, well no shit. If I want to watch the
Gesta Francorum (authored likely by a common soldier no less) being put into a stageplay I rather watch that but I am not gonna watch that shitty Tolkien show or HotD.
Secondly, you do realize the first season is a set up for the war? You still gonna be calling it a soap opera when there is gonna be battles and stuff? It's a slow burning show (despite all the complaints about the "time jumps") that takes its time to move the pieces into place, something rather rare these days.
>I don't really care what kind of media people consume if they don't forget to touch grass from time to time and maybe read some theory too.I literally studied medieval history my dude, don't you dare to tell me to read about it. This board is called /hobby/ if you haven't noticed, not /edu/.
>their very definition is that they are tales exchanged by common people. Examining the ideology of the ruling class also tells you a lot about a certain era.I think HotD makes it pretty clear from the beginning that this is a show from the POV of the feudal ruling class. That doesn't mean I can not enjoy it.
>>30428>Can you give an example of a TV show that isn't "soap" then? Because the way I see it most shows people hold dear, from the >SopranosHave never seen it.
>to RomeSame
>to Breaking BadBreaking Bad was a self-cointained story about the common trope of a middle class nobody facing an existential crisis and then going on a self-destructive rampage which is somehow portrayed simpathetically and I could talk about Jesse or whatever else element of the show but I won't. The point is that it's well written. Meanwhile in GoT has no overarching narrative other than the ice skellies invading Westeros. We realize after the end of Season 1 that morals alone don't help in a world where the strongest rule. Ok, then what happens next? Will it be the war of all against all for all the remaining seasons, or will any kind of morality prevail other than personal vendetta? Well, it turned out to be the former. So really nothing new happens after Ned Stark is executed. Characters are built up, given different storylines, they start going in this or that direction and at some point they are killed. GRRM is like "U mad?? I killed your hero XDDDDDD" then makes up another character in the place of him/her so that there will be people to root for/hate and observe as they are brutally murdered. Their views/personality might have some meaning on their own, but since there is no overarching narrative, no point to anything, I doesn't form a consistent whole. Yet the books/show can always go on because you can cut off storylines by killing off people.
>Secondly, you do realize the first season is a set up for the war?Ok, it's a soap opera with more violence.
>I think HotD makes it pretty clear from the beginning that this is a show from the POV of the feudal ruling class. That doesn't mean I can not enjoy it.I never told you that you shouldn't or can't. You are awfully defensive about this.
>>30438The way Rhaenyra dies is fucking disgusting. Also, not really a spoiler, was already spoilered in GoT by Joffrey when he takes her through the crypt in the Sept of Baelor.>>30434>The point is that it's well written."It's a soap opera with extra drugs. If you like soap operas, fine, but don't cope about it."
>Meanwhile in GoT has no overarching narrative other than the ice skellies invading Westeros.This is not a thread about GoT but about HotD. I am sure most users here starkly object to the direction they took the show towards after season 4. Also,
what fucking irony that you praised Tolkien here who has the biggest fucking cliche dark lord impending doom type of theme out of all fantasy, and yet you complain about The Others in ASOIAF.
>Ok, then what happens next? Will it be the war of all against all for all the remaining seasons, or will any kind of morality prevail other than personal vendetta?Did you even watch it beyond the first episode?
>Characters are built up, given different storylines, they start going in this or that direction and at some point they are killed.Unlike many shows these days that kill characters off for shock value the GoT deaths were actually properly built up and people were only shocked because they didn't pick up on the clues. They weren't random and not staged for shock value. There are multiple talks by GRRM explaining as to why he exactly had to remove the Starks as players on the chessboard and none of the reasons he gives is like "I wanted to shock my readers lol".
I am saying this of course for the first four seasons, I can't vouch for anything D&D made up later nor for what Martin writes in his later books.
>but since there is no overarching narrative, no point to anythingAgain, you didn't watch or read it. There are like three conflicting prophecies and the threat of The Others. Again back to Tolkien: I don't dislike Tolkien but reviving Gandalf could as well be seen as a cheap cop-out because he needed him so his death was fake for shock value. Now what? And in ASOIAF it never feels like they are killing people to push out more books (GRRM is notoriously terrible within that regard anyway), but at this point I don't even know what you are trying to argue. You jump from criticism of HotD, GoT, ASOIAF and a fucking Marxist critique of feudal society. I am starting to think you are a massive faggot.
>I never told you that you shouldn't or can't. You are awfully defensive about this.I have criticisms of the show but you are incredibly insufferable.
You never addressed why you copy-paste rhetoric from the Amazon bots.
>>30439Also, one more thing, I don't think GRRM ever said that his books are some sort of realism. It's just more modern fantasy where the hero isn't a shining knight and the villian isn't a dark lord. I don't know what the fuck this criticism is, I just enjoy his stories, there is other stuff I go for when I want historical realism.
Remember that GRRM is a liberal and an American.
>you'll most commonly find out that in the real world in history, classes were always struggling for supremacy whether that be the aristocracy or the nobility or barons or slaves or peasants or merchants etc etc.There was feudal infighting, right? If you talk about English history in particular (to which you alluded to) it was the nobles who rebelled against the centralized power of the king in London constantly way up till the end of the English Civil War.
I don't understand why you guys constantly want this class struggle jerkfest in every piece of media you consume. Shakespeare had zero class struggle within his works unless you do some mental gymnastics (which I have seen some Marxists do), so he should be discarded now?
>>30442>There was feudal infighting, right? Because noble infighting wasn't ever just noble infighting. It seems the one who's reaching and doing reductionism here is you my guy.
>I don't understand why you guys constantly want this class struggle jerkfestProjection. Like I said, even the most liberal historian could not ignore the many facets of both ancient and feudal societies. The nobles in ASOIAF are very one dimensional and this is a very fair critique for a series of this ilk. Even The Hobbit had a more 3 dimensional fantasy world. GRRM is basically grimdark fantasy for the sake of it, again it's a fair criticism. It's fair to call out fantasy schlock when it's earned. I remember the writer of V for Vendetta, I forget his name where he talked about the one dimensional nature of marvel comics and how in order to give their superheroes "depth" they'd had maybe one character flaw making them 2 dimensional to make it seem as if those characters are "deeper" than they really are. This is the same for the ASOIAF series which is a fair criticism of GRRM; the guy is better than his peers because he adds one more dimensional to what would otherwise be a one dimensional fantasy story.
>>30443>Because noble infighting wasn't ever just noble infighting.On the surface, it was. I am sure you can interpret all kinds of historical materialist narratives into various feudal squabbles but do you really want this on a mainstream TV show? It's funny, because you come over as the type who would dismiss any current capitalist infighting as "just capitalism" without inserting any class analysis to it. Just my impression. I am not saying there weren't class struggles fought out in the open in feudalism, but sometimes a feud is just a feud. Dare tell me, where is the class aspect in the Spanish War of Succession or the Seven Years War, to give two examples?
>The nobles in ASOIAF are very one dimensional and this is a very fair critique for a series of this ilk.Have you actually watched it? I am not gonna ask again. Because from my impression, the noble protagonists of GoT and HotD seem to be rather complex characters coming in all different shades, and you can realize that even the "good" characters are just ruling class assholes who will stomp on the people, unless you are a braindead fan, they leave enough crumbs for that.
>Even The Hobbit had a more 3 dimensional fantasy world.The nobles in Tolkien are literally le Aryan virtuous great men, you gotta be fucking kidding me.
>GRRM is basically grimdark fantasy for the sake of itITT I have criticized the over-the-top grimdarkness of his universe before, because it dehumanizes people who lived, served, acted and ruled in feudalism as if they were some kind of hellworld, but you fail to substantiate any or your claims.
>I remember the writer of V for Vendetta, I forget his name where he talked about the one dimensional nature of marvel comics and how in order to give their superheroes "depth" they'd had maybe one character flaw making them 2 dimensional to make it seem as if those characters are "deeper" than they really are.V for Vendetta is DC, Alan Moore is not affiliated with Marvel. Anyway, nice attempt to divert the topic for the sixth time now.
>This is the same for the ASOIAF series which is a fair criticism of GRRM; the guy is better than his peers because he adds one more dimensional to what would otherwise be a one dimensional fantasy story.There are fantasy authors who easily rival GRRM but again, it's not fair criticism, because you don't make an argument, you just claim things. For most of the time, and I can't believe I am defending the fatso here like this (literally was one of the original "Is Winter Coming?" posters years ago), he manages to create a good balance between "generic" fantasy elements and "grimdark" greyness.
>>30444>There are fantasy authors who easily rival GRRM can you name some, NTA but I'm interested if anything can mog GoT
This can't be the peak
>>30459Of course the hightowers are part of the cruel first men who hurt nature and are responsible for the long winter
Greens can't do anything right
>>30461Would be interesting to find out more about valyria, I feel they might have even had queens unlike westeroes which is backwards minded because of the faith of the seven
>>30469I think that for the most part the Starks
are First Men. IDK how much they married people outside Da Norf. Catelyn Tully is one case of a Southern wife and they make a point of how out of place she is. Wildlings would be 100% First Men bloodlines unless some other group also emigrated before The Wall went up.
>>30501It was Jaherys's dragon, I forgor their name
Speaking of him
I wish they showed more of the stuff during this period
>>30501>Although I hate how they keep bringing up the "song of ice and fire" prophecy, like why would you want to tie this series more to the disaster that was second half of GoT. From what I understand, none of this current Prince That Was Promised / Song of Ice and Fire plot is in the book Fire and Blood and is an addition by the show. I don't think any of GRRM's books even say "Song of Ice and Fire" in any context. That's just the name of the (main) book series. PTWP is important in the aSoIaF series and it's supposed to be from the R'hllor religion, not the Targaryens.
https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/The_Prince_That_Was_Promised<"The Prince That Was Promised" (sometimes called "the Prince Who Was Promised"[1] or "the One Who Was Promised", and also referred to as "the Lord's Chosen, "the Son of Fire", and "the Warrior of Light") is a prophesied savior in the religion of the Lord of Light.<Moreover, it is never clearly revealed where the prophecy about the Prince originated, or what culture/religion made the original prediction. Legends of Azor Ahai are widespread across the further east of Essos, though he is known by different names, depending on the region. According to Melisandre, who hails from the city of Asshai, the prophecy about the Prince was known there five thousand years ago, but even this was millennia after Azor Ahai supposedly lived. >>30501Daemon literally murdered her husband and his uncle. 3 out of 6 kids of Rjaenyra are legitimate. Last episode Rhaenys murdered hundreds of civilians. I don't know how you can possibly think the Blacks are the good guys.
Also Otto has balls of steel going to Dragonstone without any of his grandson's dragons with like 10 men and then not even flinches.
Even if you dislike the Greens, you must admit that their dialog is written much better. Characters talking this episode felt more like late-GoT. I don't know if different writers write for different teams but that's my impression.
>>30531>Krispy Kreme murdering someone at a wedding.They would have to include another tournament scene and they needed some shocking moment otherwise viewers would complain about the lack of events. Cole getting away with that can easily be explained by Alicent and Otto vouching for him. I didn't actually mind that, plus it was shot well.
The Rheanys thing is dumb yeah. Especially since she doesn't just Dracarys them, preventing the war, and then explaining it later with "it's not my war". WHAT? What a bitch dude.
>>30532yeah like she would do that
she has no one but her granddaughters, it's bad writing for drama
but understandable considering from the character perspective
i'm kinda excited for the sea snake surviving but they canceled his show :(
what was he cooking?
>>30504>>30507I want jaherys slice of life anime special
Dude's reign was drama free after maegor
Actually Blackfyre and Conquest might be cruel, but seeing Gigachad Maegor just fuck up the maestors and poison everybody would be fun as fuck
>>30505>le greens are good!>b-but smol bean uwu queen didn't know!!11fuck the greens,
fake pious and noble, the targaryens at least don't pretend about caring about the kingdom, they rule for power and that's it
no b.s
>>30538Feudalism is not absolutism, it's more particularistic. The king doesn't have a standing army and needs to keep dealing with his vassals.
>Machiavellianlol, as if Machiavelli was not highly progressive for his time.
This was a cool af episode, it really felt like a prequel
I did not know that they had messenger bags in those times,
What do you think daemons shoes are made of? Are they boots
>>30538Fr, they're annoying as hell
>>30539Was Machiavelli a real dude? How was he progressive for his time
>>30544Hightowers - especially Otto - are pieces of shit. Aemond is salvageable and probably would make a good Machiavellian Ruler, his brother is irredeemable though.
>>30538Viserys was a idiot who happens to have a pretty good daughter. His entire arc is his navelgazing about better rulers than him.
>>30538Are you stupid? The Greens rule no different than the Blacks. The Peasants and smallfolk see absolutely no change in their day to day lives. Perhaps some nobility get purged and executed but who the hell cares. This is why the Greens have constantly been the more peaceful monarchs. The people who get executed here are nobles, rich land owners and high lords, and why should I give a single fuck if one rich guy kills another rich guy? So long as they aren't killing poor people through war. If the Targs met the peace terms then we wouldn't have seen any war let alone suffering of the poor.
Let me put it another way, imagine getting upset over one group of capitalists canceling another group of capitalists and the canceled group going to war over being cancelled.
>>30544>Was Machiavelli a real dudeyes
>How was he progressive for his timeHe was nonreligious. He didn't think divine right of kings or the divinity of Christ was real, but rather a purely realpolitik justification for taking power. He believed religion was a tool for governing people. I wouldn't call him "progressive" (which has too much liberal baggage) so much as highly "Pragmatic" and "secular" for his time.
>>30551>the emerging bougeoisie (the bank i guess) would be the most progrssive element in this universe.
<muh iron bank*Ahem*
see
>>30549 >>30505Agree. Something tells me that people are missing the obvious thing that the directors are playing with, one of the most obvious ones was the perfectly made sex scene between Rhaenyra and her uncle, why was it perfect? Because of how it was filmed in a "loving" way. The show is intentionally trying to frame the Targaryens as the "good guys" but even the writers and directors intended this because it's to play on the fact that the Targaryens are complete and utter psychopaths and cruel people.
As you said that the Greens are written "better" but this is intentionally done because the Greens are basically framed as Duty, capital D Duty type folks which is cold and to the point whereas the more "chaotic" nature of the Targaryens is equally framed as more "empathetic" despite the fact that the Targaryens are extremely cruel people that think everything they do is justified.
>>30564Interest-bearing capital, or, as we may call it in its antiquated form, usurer's capital, belongs together with its twin brother, merchant's capital, to the antediluvian forms of capital, which long precede the capitalist mode of production and are to be found in the most diverse economic formations of society.
Volume 3. kys
What is this guy on the right's story?
I feel like I've seen him before
I swear I thought we would see "Gods be Good" guy again but…
>>30573>>30575she is unironically based as fuck
she might be a pimp still but at least she's achieving some basic good of stopping the child fighting rings
>>30549I KNEEL
>white wormsad that we didn't get melissandra cameo, maybe next season
>>30553i will.
>>30563lmfao
>>30571what are the iron bank exactly, i've not seen GoT
they sound interesting
>>30556The Targarayans are foreign invaders, and do you know what place Valyria was? They practiced blood magic and human experiments. Now one of those freak families managed to conquer a bunch of Western feudal kingdoms because they have dragons (e.g. nukes) and rule by constant fear and terror (except maybe Viserys).
In traditional feudalism, for all its problems,
some obligation towards the subjects existed, even if it was mediated through religion (which the Greens use). Of course there was tons of hypocrisy (see the behavior of the Crusaders for example) but it was not a lawless or chaotic world. Mutual respect didn't exist between nobles and commoners in battle during the the Middle Ages, but battles were rare because of how risky they were.
As it has already been said, who have the Hightowers actually fucked over? Other nobles. This can't be fucking said for Rhaenys for example.
Banks are of course the most "progressive" element. To the other comment that banks did exists before the rise of banking families like the Medici or the Fugger (kek), as far as banks existed they couldn't act on their own. They were complete powerless. And even then the emerging bourgeoisie in Florence, Augsburg, the Hanse, etc. was eventually subdued.
Competition between nobles of course doesn't follow the same rules as competition between capitalists, of course. But there is little doubt that if the Green achieve complete victory, with Otto being the man in charge, things would immensely better for the realm. When Robert conquered the Throne, a period of prosperity followed, and Robert was a bad king. Because the realm would be under a native Westerosi who follows the native religion. "Duty" maybe a cope, but it's clear the Targaryans have no sense of it, I mean the incest thing alone which goes against the laws of the native religion is a red flag alone.
>>30555Yeah the show is clearly biased in favor of the blacks in the same way the book was clearly biased in favor of the greens.
>>30539>Feudalism is not absolutismI said absolute power because Otto said it. You are correct about feudalism but I was just tying what I was saying to the story and the Hightowers' motives. It's obviously not an absolute monarchy.
>as if Machiavelli was not highly progressive for his timeI meant Machieavellian in terms of personality and schemes not political policy. The show doesn't bother talking about the policies of either side because that's not what it's about.
>>30599except the book has the virtue of unreliable narrators
whereas the show is canon, and is from an actual historical perspective
HISTORY HAS A TARGARYEN BIASAlso does anyone agree with this theory that the Targs actually can only control the dragons because they're supposed to fulfill the prophecy?
That's why after the Dance of the Dragons they go extinct
what was your favourite fanart or meme?
https://old.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/yc2la9/i_will_miss_this_show_in_honor_of_a_wonderful/Also Boros is illterate? How, Is that some Baratheon trait?
Did the dad die
>>30612abuse like how, damn
did he treat any of his kids right? no wonder they went full targ
>>30615>It was only until the industrial revolution that merchant society expanded so wildlyThis is a rather anglo centric view on history tbh.
Venezia and Genova both cucked the Byzantine Empire at one point in the High Middle ages and it never really recovered from it, roughly at the same time the Hanse was a very strong political and cultural force in Germany, Scandinavia, Netherlands & Flanders, the Baltics and all the way to Novgorod in the East. I'm sure in other parts of the world similar capitalist political entities existed during the Middle ages and before, e.g. Phoenecians. Also, the so called industrial revolution was a gradual process in technology and economics spanning over several centuries which eventually helped to strenghten the power of the bourgeois class under feudalism and facilitate bourgeois-liberal revolutions, eventually enabling bourgeois capitalists becoming the most dominant force in formerly absolutist feudal societies in Europe.
>>30558This. They made him kill the Strong bastard at such an early age in a kinda unfair fight, now he looks like a villain which he isn't. I'm glad Corlys is back and i would have prefered an epic sea battle with him defeating the triarchy over Rhaenys' stupid dragon scene at Aegon's coronation in ep9 and in ep10 the boring coronation of the smug princess, who displays now an implausible, drastic change in character, as she now seems to resemble more Viserys rather than Daemon.
>>30618WTF are you talking about, the Dutch were the most powerful people in the world in the centuries before the Industrial Revolution if anything
They even had their hands in the Spanish and Portuguese Empires, and German and northern Italian merchants also played a huge driving force in those empires
>>30608George RR Martin is a fat old squishy liberal who spent most of his life before ASOIAF writing dumb shit like "what if the american civil war had vampires".
yes, i know, "Scatch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" yada yada but you'd have to be a clown to think the guy has explicit fascist sympathies. dude's probably never even fired a gun
>>30616booh hooo green bitch
they're all villains
The Black Queen will have all their heads on spikes
Be grateful Her Grace didn't listen to Daemon and skewer them right there and then,
>>30609>Also Boros is illterate? Yeah.
>How, Is that some Baratheon trait? Kinda. A lot of the Baratheon lineage is known for their prowess in combat. They get their court maesters to read everything to them. Stannis Baratheon though is well-read and makes a point of correcting peoples grammar
>>30628The trend is real.
Anarchos, Trots, left-coms, etc. root for Team Black
Tankies, MLs, Dengists, etc. root for Team Green
>>30622>dude's probably never even fired a gunHe is a draft dodger with regards to Vietnam. He openly brags about how he faked his way out of the draft. Which makes him based for a liberal.
GRRM
is a liberal but he does give zero shit about liberal sensibilties. He is the type of autistic nerd who would explain to you in detail why "Kingdom Come" was right to have no black people in it. I respect him for that.
>>30654does he really?
wait what's that about kingdom come
>>30654What do you think is worse, rape or murder? Daemon didn't rape his first wife, he
bashed her head in.
Even last episode he showed his true colors when he almost choked out his wife just because he got upset that his borther told her something he didn't know.
Also, it's barely Aegon who is in charge (not yet anyway) but Alicent and Otto, and they are not malicious.
>>30673Aegon as degenerate and decadent he is was reluctant to become king because he possessed enough self-criticism to know that he's not the best candidate to sit the Iron Throne and rule the Seven Kingdoms. Meanwhile, every single black Targayen fuck from Rhaenys over Rhaenyra to Daemon dreams about nothing else than being king or queen himself or herself just for the sake of it (also true for Daenerys, if it wasn't for Tyrion and Jon she would not have given a single fuck about the walkers, through all GoT seasons she only cared about the throne and her nukes).
>>30628>"Her Grace"höhöhö very nice, anarshit. You're a well-behaved underling of your reactionary girl boss mistress, aren't you
>30618Lolwut Venezia and Genova were republics with huge imperialist navies ruled by bourgeois capitalists. Hanse cities and free and free & imperial cities in the German realm had their own constitutions, had no obligations to feudal lords, only very miniscule obligations to the emperor and were ruled by councils which consisted of elected members of the most wealthy bourgeois capitalists of the city. There was no serfdom in the cities, in fact peasant serfs who had ran away from their landlords would be considered free if they managed to live 1 year in a city. They usually would become free craftsmen and other salaried workers there.
>>30678I'm not an anarchist idiot
These flags are house flags of House Targaryens but of course a fake, green supporter who despite being so against the Targs still upholds their flags and mimics it on their dogshit flags
The flags of House Black are true, and mutual and equal partnership
It also looks modern af
>>30673Pathetic wishwashing off a degen who makes his own children fight and shaves down their teeth
His Grace, The King's Consort is an Army Man first, and doesn't care for cruelty but Justice
Which showed by the last ep how he offered a merciless death to those knights
Don't compare your jag-off to a military commander
There's a reason why they had to replace the City Cloak's because despite being gone for a long time, They respect and honour Daemon more than the fake usurper, a puppet's marce, Shillgon II
>>30673>What do you think is worse, rape or murder?Unironically resolving to murder in order to get rid of someone you arent allowed to divorce and who you got basically shotgun wed to is, while still evil, incomparable to being a serial rapist.
>Also, it's barely Aegon who is in charge (not yet anyway) but Alicent and Otto, and they are not malicious"Not yet anyway" is doing a lot of work here. And Otto is no more morally restrained than Daemon when it comes to his desire for power. Also, Daemon wont be king either, he is a queen consort.
>>30679>Which showed by the last ep how he offered a merciless death to those knightsHis literal quote:
<you will die screaming At this point I don't know if you are just some soyfacing redditor or literally 13 or something, but this level of idiocy must be hurting your brain.
>>30680Have you read the book? I hope you do know what happens to Rhaenyra.
>>30685>while still evilI think ending someone's life after you lure them into a false feeling of safety is worse than rape. And every single legal system in the world agrees with me on that.
>Also, Daemon wont be king either, he is a queen consort.He tried to start a war as people could hear Rhaenyra screaming as she has a miscarriage.
Still no argument as to why Otto and Alicent won't be better for the realm instead of another insane Targaryen.
>>30689and?
>>30688s33the, still more honorable than shillgon ii
>>30691is elden ring anyway connected to GoT
i can't believe he wrote a video game too
>>30703GRRM is an old school nerd, today you would say "autist", when nerd culture began in the 70s. This means that every single action his characters take will be meticulously reviewed, and he sometimes burns entire chapters he deems to be unfit.
On the top side it means we are actually getting a coherent story. On the downside it means we have to wait years for a new book.
>>30705we need more nerds
>>30704so in terms of varys, who would that be?
>>30706Seems like popular opinion is Bagoas.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/b44iga/spoilers_published_varys_historical_inspiration/https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/vlmxh/is_varys_based_on_this_historical_figure/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2xhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BagoasBut I was more referring to the overall plot and setup being based on The War of The Roses and other things.
https://www.unomaha.edu/news/2016/06/a-game-of-thrones-a-war-of-roses.phphttps://theconversation.com/ambition-greed-and-death-the-roman-roots-of-game-of-thrones-119247>Although the universe of Game of Thrones is steeped in a medieval atmosphere, several of the central in the series – Daenerys Targaryen, Joffrey Baratheon and Jon Snow – seem directly inspired by characters from Roman antiquity.
>George R.R. Martin, author of the novels behind the hit HBO series, has affirmed that the history of the Roman Empire was one of his sources of inspiration. Indeed, it was the 117km wall that the Emperor Hadrian had built in the north of England in the years 120 AD that gave him the idea of the Wall.If I'm not mistaken he used to have this web 1.0 website that had a lot of good information about Roman history. I remember I came across it before I ever heard of Song of Ice and Fire or him because I was reading up on Roman war dogs.
>>30741fuck you!!!
>>30708>take history>make everyhting bigger and more dramatic>millions???>>30740>The feet stuff being real made me laugh like neverwait what
>>30756Should have sent both to the same place. A prince still commands respect. And even Aemond didn't really wanted to kill Luke. The scene was about the dragon being an unstable WMD, everyone hates Aemond now, I don't know why. At best you can accuse him of willful negligence.
Rhaenera is subpar to the top players of the game by a good amount. Her limited success comes from her strong willpower, her advisors and the sheer weight of her claim.
>>30858Partly, it's contrarianism, secondly it's the infatuation with realpolitik over romantic idealism.
But hey, the cast seems like really nice people. I like shows where I can't stand the actors, but this is luckily not the case here.
>>30858 (me)
Also, there seems to be a good axis between the actors, the showrunners and GRRM. They all said they had great freedom in creating these characters, some dialog was improvised.
Also this is the only show I know where the female directors deliver the good episodes. Really shows you what kind of narcisisstic failsons D&D were.
>>36422The book establishes it better that Joffrey being a bastard was an open secret and that the realm was already on the brink of war due to Robert being a shit king. Realistically the show had a lot of worldbuliding to cram in there on their budget for season 1 (and a lot of the first 2 episodes is recycled footage from the pilot).
>>34905It feels a little rushed out the gate to cope with GoT suddenly no longer being a cash cow. It will probably improve with time. They don't have to worry about running out of material and there's plenty of room for interpretation since the book is more like an outline.
>>34915The WGA/SAG strike doesn't affect production because it's done in the UK which doesn't recognize the strike.
>>36424>The book establishes it better that Joffrey being a bastard was an open secret Doesn't that make his investigation make even less sense? I guess I should read the books, but I kinda don't want to knowing the bastard will never finish them. I'm sure he's mentally fucked considering how much everyone hated the ending of the show. Supposedly it was based on his notes, but I wonder how it would've been if he wrote it.
I actually tried to read GoT a long time ago before I watched the show but I gave up because he wants to introduce 40 characters in the first chapter and I was like "ain't no way I'm remembering who these people are."
>>34905It's pretty good. The writing is consistent (unlike GoT) and the only weakness was that the first season has is that it is basically a set-up for the war, that's why you got mostly court drama and King's Landing as the only location. But all the reasons for going to war are now logical and firmly established, there is barely a way how they can fuck this up now.
Watch GoT season 6-8 and compare the dialog with HotD. It's a lot of improvement.
>>36485It's shot for HDR format TVs. On regular TVs it looks bad. Upgrade your home theater setup you fucking poormie.
🎩
🐷
>>36486GoT was just trying to mask bad CGI, that's a really common way to do it. Realistic color grading isn't common in big-budget productions at the moment, which also helps disguise things and make them uniform since you pipe everything to the same color palette. There are cases where it can work but it's overdone and GoT was pretty infamous example. The climactic battle scene of the series take place at night and it's lit in a way where you often literally cannot see anything. It's comical, one of the biggest and key factions from episode one of the show gets "wiped out" (until next episode where the showrunners kinda forgot about that) and the way it's shown is picrel. You just see the flames from their weapons lit on fire charging toward the enemy and then going out.
>>36487i watched it on an HDR smart TV in the dark
it still looked dull
>>36534leftypol.org encodes page in unicode
it's just a matter of browser or OS compatibility at that point
>>40422>>40433I mean the Dragons pretty much were setpieces in season one most the time, there was not a plot revolving around them compared to the character dynamics (of the humans). We even got zero information on them, how intelligent they, what their behaviour is, like do they gather treasures or abduct princesses in their free time, are there any magic properties to them besides the obvious, etc.
I'm okay with all this btw.
>>40629That's kind of appropriate for this story. That's not why they're doing it, thoughever. It's very effective marketing to have different "teams" in the fandom arguing with each other because it keeps more attention on the property. Different industries figured it out at different points. Movies/TV production probably realized it with Twilight and the whole Edward vs Jacob craze that everyone and their dog had to hear about even if they hated it.
>>40631>>40630If Gurm wanted to get his shit animated he should try to make more connections in Japan. Maybe Miyazaki (not that one, the other one) could hook him up with some anime studio. The prospects of an adult animated ASOIAF show is straight up not going to happen because Gurm is under the HBO umbrella. If he had jumped on Netflix they would be all over it. They love animation. Warner-Discovery-whatever fucking hates it due to the new CEO David Zaslav who clearly hates animation (canceling and pulling a ton of it from the HBO/Max catalog). Partly because animation is costly, probably partly because he is a boomer who wants to make low effort reality TV and thinks cartoons are for babies.
>>42233>>42234anti-piracy measure lol
If you stream the video, the file is never downloaded, just portions get loaded to your RAM while playing. If you could pre-download the file to watch in full quality then it would be easier to pirate it. Yet another case of making things worse for the paying customers than the pirates.
My hot take after passing three graduate school economics classes is: Daenerys did absolutely the right thing in Slaver’s Bay, especially by taxing the slaveowners who were illegally in the market to buy freed slaves. Imposing a duty on slaveowners was intended (and likely succeeded) to discourage people from buying slaves and went to the Meereenese government. Contrary to the opinions of people who want to hate her, Dany never pockets the money herself. She put a (relatively common irl) tax on buying slaves to de-incentivize it to people in the market for them; if buying slaves is more expensive than not buying them, the propensity to do it decreases greatly. She did the right thing here.
GRRM obviously doesn’t really touch the issue of CAB + FAB = 0, Balance of Payments, Federal/Official Reserves, bonds, etc. but assuming that Slaver’s Bay has a central bank of some sort and that they either can use official reserves with a neighboring state/bank or something to otherwise stimulate the economy (even in terms of export subsidies, quota rents, or import tariffs), it would take a maximum of a few years for the Slaver’s Bay economy to restabilize. With the right counsel and investments, it could be a matter of months (assuming she gets back to Meereen from the Dothraki relatively soon and we don’t see the mess of Tyrion trying to negotiate with the slavers like we did in the show) before it got back into full swing. The economy is whack right now because it’s a transitionary period where the current accounts balance and financial accounts balance are in a deficit. It’s expected with her abolishment of slavery.
I’ve said this once and I’ve said it again. Daenerys is an inexperienced sixteen-year-old ruler in Meereen. She made mistakes, for sure. But in terms of the economy? She’s taken all the right steps to ensure it’s eventual success. Daenerys did nothing wrong and the people who say her economic plans in Slaver’s Bay were all missteps clearly haven’t done their research.
>>30691i mean are you really surprised a retarded american celebrity doesn't know victoria nuland put poroshenko and the banderites in power in 2014 throw a CIA coup and that there was 8 years of ukrainian civil war against donbass and luhansk
before Russia got involved? Liberals are retarded. They literally think Putin personally put Trump in power.
>>42268Yeah, but GRRM seems like someone who has an interest in stuff like history, most events in Game of Thrones are inspired by historical events from British medieval history, especially the War of the Roses. The Red Wedding was inspired by an infamous "black wedding" for Scottish history where an entire clan got wiped out during a wedding celebration.
I mean, the man writes books about political intrigue, power politics and manipulation - you could at least expect someone to be a tiny bit away of what is going on in the world. He was a draft-dodger during Vietnam, but now he wants to set the Kremlin on fire.
>>34912drafting is freaking autism bro
real non-autistics type out an entire book in a single session and have it published the same day
GRRM is just lazy and is more focused on cash cows like Elden Ring nowadays
the mythologization of "old school nerds" is cringe as well
>>42682episode sucked. we laughed out loud in my house when daemon teleported to king's landing undetected and hired the two most incompetent bumpkins to assassinate epic eyepatch man who's supposedly better than everyone at fighting. we laughed even harder when they took a mangy dog with them for no reason. and then when they were in the sewers both their hands were full and they supposedly were able to climb the ladder with the dog (insert jump cut). Then they kick the dog for no reason and don't use it for anything after squabbling in the hallway. Then they have zero fucking stealth as they snoop around the royal quarters, and then when they have an opportunity to kill both children AND the witness, they decide to just randomly kill one child, and then let the woman go so she can sound the alarm to everyone. It was completely idiotic. Supposedly they do even worse in the book.
>>42392>drafting is freaking autism bro>real non-autistics type out an entire book in a single session and have it published the same dayyou're talking out of your ass. publishers are extremely strict and will not publish stuff like this. well… sort of. on one end of the spectrum you have people trying to push their uneteid first drafts and their incoherent AI generated slop, and on the other hand you have people trying to publish their plotless pynchonian tombs that explore too many themes, have too many characters, etc. publishers like a market-researched novel with a popular target demographic that doesn't overstay its welcome, has a page-turning plot, and works after 2 or 3 drafts.
>>42384legally streaming hbo is kind of a hassle outside of the US
also torrenting is literally just the path of least resistance as long as you have a good vpn
>>42682>- Alicent fucking Criston. It would have been better to leave it more open, whether or not they were intimate with each other. They both have their twisted sense of honor and duty, but now this is reduced to sexuality. Pretty sure they were fucking last season too?
Anyway my additional thoughts, me and my BF were laughing that Aemond is presented as this epic strategist when the strategies he proposes are literally 'let's march to the enemy and on the way visit our vassals to get more levies', AKA literally the most rudimentary type of feudal warfare. But I guess the writers are implying that everyone has forgotten how to do anything because dragons OP.
>>42754>Pretty sure they were fucking last season too?It was implied, but not seen on screen.
>>42750What about watching "illegal" streams?That must be for sure the path of the least resistance, at least in my country there has yet to be a single being charged for staring at a screen without downloading something.
https://yesmovies.mn/https://upmovies.net/I use this all the time and never had any problems.
>>42753The first episodes of GoT were always forgettable. Just an exposition dump and checking on everybody. So far they are doing everything better than GoT though, for example there is no porn which was forcefully inserted into every GoT episode.
>>42852He dies In battle, unsure if it's in this season.>>42853Aegon is no Joffrey, and even Otto tries to prevent bloodshed.
>innocents in KL are basically non-actors just there to become collateral damage. Everyone else is a scheming cunt.Rhaenys trampled a thousand of them to death, in a supposed girl boss scene. What were they thinking.
>>42857He could just be like "the queen sent me on a job" and he'd outrank everyone there. His story only had to hold up long enough to get to Rhaenyra. Kind of the whole point of the sequence was that it was a dumb mission and he would almost certainly be caught and stopped. Him getting as far as he did is a testament to how under-equipped the Blacks are, although you could say the same for Blood and Cheese getting away with it. Considering the resources at the disposal of these royals you would think they'd be able to hire better assassins.
>>42861>Aegon is no JoffreyHe's not, but he probably told Crispy Creme to send Arryk to kill Rhaenyra, and he was shouting about wanting blood.
>and even Otto tries to prevent bloodshed.Yeah but it's still from the angle of wanting to secure the legacy of his house. He's reasonable in comparison to Aegon, but his competency is ultimately directed towards his own interests. Him talking to Alicent basically confirms he is looking for a way for the Hightowers to come out on top as the heroes.
>Rhaenys trampled a thousand of them to death, in a supposed girl boss scene. What were they thinking.They were thinking
foreshadowing. Notice how this episode had multiple scenes from the smallfolks' perspective.
>>42879Yeah it's a pretty good show. I think people might expect too much from the evil schemes because GOT set the standard, even though some of those characters were
supposed to be exceptional schemers in-universe. This story is meant to be more of a mess, like a
comedy tragedy of errors almost.
They didn't take up too much time with the Velaryons this episode, and the dockworker guys (Alyn and Addam of Hull) have main cast billing if that tells you anything. Also the guy playing Alyn (Abubakar Salim) had a main role on the HBO series Raised by Wolves.
>>42886I mean, that's literally the point of an impersonating attempting? Cloak and dagger wearing a black hood would have probably been more difficult with the Blacks being on high alert. Also, territory wise and the way that castle is laid out, Dragonstone seems like a bitch into get in for a spy or assassin. It was bad luck that he was seen by the Asian girl who I assume told Erryk who was not on guard duty concerning Rhaenery's chamber. Arryk still managed to fooled the gateguards, but mistake is with Erryk, who never conceived that possibility and didn't shave or cut his hair.
>>42889For all his faults, GRRM does write women as strong but also realistic without the Hollywood girlboss shit.
>>42967Extremely based and he also probably knows where the story goes lol.
>>42968source: ur bum
It's funny they went out of their way to make sure Alicent knows she fucked up. The show is really going hard for team black and putting all the bad stuff on Daemon.
>>42997The prop department was probably a little too proud of the fake dick (and lingering on it made it more noticeable).
>>43013GoT had plenty of cocks but as pointed out by South Park they were never erect, let alone showing penetration. There are actual censorship laws in some places that classify an actual erect penis as pornography, which is a big reason why they don't do it. HBO has been showing hog in their programs for a while (often gratuitously), but they don't really get this explicit. AFAIK it's a first for the network (certainly for the franchise) to show something like that. If it was just a background thing I doubt most people would have noticed, but they put it front and center because that's how HBO does it.
Probably the most ridiculous example was from their limited series The Night Of where they had a scene of investigators discussing the plot next to a cadaver and they did multiple insert shots of a photo right next to the cadaver's penis (picrel).
>>43037Same reason Rhaenys didn't barbecue everybody when she had the chance. That's not how the story goes in the book and the scene was an addition to the show to heighten the "drama."
Btw can't wait for "media literacy" fans to start arguing that people criticizing these moments just "don't get it" because it's supposed to show how these events could have been prevented or something.
>>43100i hated him when he killed that twink for literally no reason
beady-eyed, wildly violent asshole (although rationally not much worse than most of the main characters)
>>43205>So what's it gonna be tonight?Total Aemond victory
AliSSent gets cucked once again
Rhaenyra does nothing again but look pretty and complain about the patriarkkky
>>43230Also creepy
but kinda hot ngl… Incest dream with Daemon and his mother
>>43255>The conversations aren't interesting and the characters are all flat.The dialog is written better than most shows, and I don't think the characters are flat. Who is flat, in your opinion? I guess if you don't like the intricacies of feudal power politics then the show just isn't for you.
>feminist pointI mean it's a bit ahistorical to talk about "feminism" when you simply could be an 18th century liberal to point out that women being barred from politics or succession (of rule, not of property) kinda sucks. England was one of the few countries where the Lex Salica didn't exist - even Maria Theresa ruled as Empress Regent, because the actual Emperor just didn't want to do it. The wokest shit the show has are black Velaryons.
>>43257I'm saying the non-action scenes are hollow and boring in a way that they weren't in GoT, which I've started re-watching. For example in GoT there's always a strong tension when two characters talk the feeling of death and high stakes rests over every conversation. There's tons, but for example: when Cersei is having a clever conversation with Littlefinger and orders her guards to execute him. When Littlefinger is talking to Ned and he realizes Neds a fool and won't seize the moment. The back and forth between Varys and Littlefinger in the throneroom..
And another thing about GoT: the plot is always moving, in a meaningful way. If two people are having hushed conversations you can rely on it being important.
I realize I'm bitching about a subjective feeling, but HOTD S2 doesn't grasp me at all in the way GoT or HOTD S1 did. It all just seems a bit mushy and ill-defined. The characters don't have strong personas.
>>43262I don't like the two queens or Aemond really. I do like Cole and the King. I don't think the show demonstrates feudal politics in an engaging way. I don't have ability to get specific because I wasn't super engaged watching it tbh, so this is just vibes-based. I'm not saying they're woke for bringing up the oppression of women, just that it's a lame reason for our characters to be inert.
>>43264>HotD is about the quality of seasons 4-6 of GoT depending on the scene.People tend to forget about the cringe shit in early GoT (for example, the porn stuff), and only remember the highlights because they were so memerable. HotD has yet to create those, but it's more well-rounded.
>Fire and Blood (the book the show is based on) is real dryBecause it's not a novel, but a fictional historical account, like the Simarillion. Doesn't matter for the show though. At least it's a finished story.
>>43267People are more willing to forgive rough edges like in early GoT if the high points are really high. That's why the reception of HotD is kind of lukewarm.
And I wasn't criticizing Fire and Blood, just pointing out that it doesn't provide the same basis for adaptation, requiring to the show to interpret a lot of things that GoT could just take directly from the books.
>>43263>I don't like the two queens or Aemond really.Alicent is saved by Olivia Cook's perfomance, whereas with Aemond it's the opposite - that guy literally has a single facial expression. I watched interviews, and he is like that IRL. Why he did chose to become an actor? Compare that with the guy who plays Aegon who does a good job.
>I'm saying the non-action scenes are hollow and boring in a way that they weren't in GoT, which I've started re-watching. For example in GoT there's always a strong tension when two characters talk the feeling of death and high stakes rests over every conversation. There's tons, but for example: when Cersei is having a clever conversation with Littlefinger and orders her guards to execute him. You may be right about that, they did give off that feeling. Ironically those were mostly scenes not from the books but added by the writers.
In the final shot of the first season, it seemed like Rhaenyra's heart had heartened and she was ready for war. But so far in the new season, she's just been running around looking for an excuse to not have a war, lol. Is it some hamfisted attempt at humanizing her for no reason?
>>43269>>43271No, making him some kinda stoic creep was an artistic decision. The actor seems "normal".
>>43272>In the final shot of the first season, it seemed like Rhaenyra's heart had heartened and she was ready for war. But so far in the new season, she's just been running around looking for an excuse to not have a war, lol.Same thing that happened with the season 1 finale of Better Call Saul. They realized they were moving too fast and had to pump the brakes so they have time to actually cover the story.
>Is it some hamfisted attempt at humanizing her for no reason?They are trying to humanize everybody when they should have this attitude
>>42967 >>43387lol ppl can bond with stories of their past, no matter how negative
also someone saying something about rape before engaging in something sexual is nowhere near touching got's portrayal of sexual violence
God the kiss scene was so fucking HOT and even hotter if you take this as AliSSent getting cuckqueaned hard.
>>43387Mysaria made the first move, dumbass. Go clutch pearls somewhere else.
>>43387>Mysaria telling a really personal traumatic story to the one person who hasn't betrayed her and sees her as human being instead of a sexual object and then sharing an intimate moment together<Woah the writers want people to get turned on by child RAPE xdddddFuck off bro, just say you hate lesbians.
>>43389The scene was unscripted and suggested by both D'Arcy and Mizuno. Neither GRRM nor any of the show's writers were behind it.
>>43387>The way they handled young Rhaenyra with Daemon and Cole was already mega susRhaneyra was 18 when she first made out with Daemon. That's hardly child rape. With Cole, she clearly abused her power position to have sex with Cole, putting him in a lose-lose situation as he didn't really want it (at this point). And what has lesbianism to do with child rape? Wtf my dude.
I had way more problems with Alicent shagging Cole in a raunchy way, it removes the subtlety about them bc they are both obsessed with purity. Rather had them in Platonic relationship. Also Larys who is supposed to be a mastermind kinda looked like an idiot in many scenes.
Aegon is still my favourite character. Great performance as well.
Dragon scenes still all bore me before of the Marvel-esque fan service.
>>43456>Also Larys who is supposed to be a mastermind kinda looked like an idiot in many scenes. did he? aemond managed to wound his pride with his bait-and-switch joke about becoming the hand, but now larys seems to be maneuvering against him via aegon
the same thing happened in got: being clever doesnt guarantee you against being fucked over by unfortunate political developments, like with margaery and olenna being killed
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