Even though the fandom is pretty dead. I wanted to see what a brony thread on here would look like since I’m a newbie
What does /leftypol/ think about this franchise and the online subculture it spawned? I feel like now that the little girls who made up the target audience are young adults I’ve been seeing more zoomers tell stories about how they were “traumatized” by the adult fandom and it’s becoming more in vogue to decry the whole “brony” phenomenon as “problematic”.
On the other hand though what’s the sociological explanation for millions of grown men becoming obsessed with a little girls cartoon in spite of hegemonic Western gender norms? I’ve read a lot of conflicting theories from academics and culture critics regarding this. Is it autism? Post-Irony? Or is there something about it that just makes it genuinely appealing?
Noob to here or noob to MLP stuff? Either way sure, this could be fun. Not too familiar with current gen myself.
>>37940Why would a noob know what /mlpol/ is? It left more of a paint scratch than a mark.
>>37942I mean /mlpol/ is known to people in the community, though obviously not as much as other forums.
>t left more of a paint scratch than a mark. It's faded with time. I remember Ponyshit could get you a ban a while ago, which is no longer the case now.
>On the other hand though what’s the sociological explanation for millions of grown men becoming obsessed with a little girls cartoon in spite of hegemonic Western gender norms?forbidden fruit and neoteny. no one expected MLP to go horse anime
>>37967her name is starlight glimmer. she's introduced in an episode centered around a town lacking any division of labour since glimglam took everyone's cutie marks away because her childhood friend moved away when he got his. it's a cautionary tale about cults, but the fandom took it to mean gommunism == everyone equal
the show does a piss poor attempt at a redemption arc for her, compared to say sunset shimmer
>>37967also no, she's from G4
G5 is useful for trolling G4 fans, especially when you point out the G4 designs are
flat >>37939better than any other fandom i've been in
>>37974lol based
1/3
The political economy of Equestria
In this short essay I will examine the political economy of Equestria. Since the show is over it is now possible to carry out a more accurate analysis than previous attempts. I wrote most of this before G5 was even announced.
First of all I will address the analysis carried out by Oscar Moralde in [1]. Moralde posits that Equestrian society would become stratified, with the unicorns at the top due to their mastery of magic, a powerful force of nature in this universe. The only thing supposedly keeping unicorn supremacy in check is the "illusion" or "myth" of friendship. We now know that this view is false: it is in all three major subspecies' material interests that friendship is maintained, lest the Windigos return. If the unicorns were to defect then widespread discontent would be the result. Equestrian society would regress to pre-unification conditions, a worse state of affairs for all. We also know that friendship is literally the strongest magic there is. The many threats to Equestrian society being defeated by the magic of friendship is ample proof of this. So contrary to Moralde's assertion that friendship is false consciousness, friendship is in fact critical to the functioning of pony society. The importance of friendship cannot be overstated. Building "friendship capital" is an immensely important task within the Equestrian economy, given its relation to Equestrian defense.
Moralde is correct in noting that many episodes are centered around economic tasks. Indeed, generalized commodity production is fully developed in Equestria. There is a market where a great variety of commodities are sold, both luxury goods and essentials such as food, but most importantly that most universal of commodities: labour power. More on this later.
All creatures, not just ponies, buy things with bits, the Equestrian currency. Bits are presumably made of gold. Whereas we know that gems are not particularly valuable, gold production must be somewhat labour-intensive to be useful as metallic currency. Refining or synthesizing gold using magic should therefore be impossible or very difficult, or else the unicorns would do just that. The value of gold would drop to near zero as a result, rendering gold useless as currency. This might, again, threaten Equestria. If unicorns could easily make gold then they would not have to work, which would lead to economic stratification and discontent. It is also possible that the crown simply forbids the creation of gold, or regulates its production.
The absence of paper money suggests a poorly developed finance sector.
[1]
https://www.overthinkingit.com/2011/02/24/my-little-pony-political-economy/>>382222/3
On the topic of food and other essentials, one thing prevents poverty-stricken ponies from outright starvation. Ponies are herbivores. They are unlikely to starve so long as there is enough grass or leaves to eat. An ascetic pony could live a "grazing lifestyle", a life of primitive communism. Secondly, the ponies' coats mean they can withstand somewhat cold climates. Equestrian winters are not shown to be particularly harsh, and if grazing was widespread then the pegasi would be compelled to provide much milder winters so as to not be unfriendly. Therefore housing is a nice-to-have rather than a base necessity. YouTuber "Kimberly" shares this view, stating that "work is not required" and that there's "no homelessness, no poverty and no ponies dying due to not having health insurance" [2].
The biggest contradiction in Equestrian society appears to be the crown. The crown's control over the sun places the agrarian earth ponies in clear dependence on it, and with their food supply the rest of ponydom as well. But we also know that the unicorns are able to control the sun themselves. In other words Equestria does not actually require the crown to function. This raises the question how the crown perpetuates itself. It cannot rule by terror, for that would bring the wrath of the Windigos. The crown must therefore act benevolent. Another possibility is that the crown rules by gerontocracy, since alicorns have much longer lifespans. This allows alicorns to play the waiting game, ensuring their dominance over Equestrian political economy. But there is another possibility: perhaps alicorns, and therefore the crown, provides a "guiding hoof" due to this longevity? This is pure speculation on my part. The retirement of princesses Celestia and Luna also puts the necessity of the crown into question. The not-uncomplicated benevolence of the crown is something also noted by Kimberly, but here I disagree with their likening the crown to the USSR under Stalin and Yugoslavia under Tito. Both Stalin and Tito answered to the CPSU and the SKJ respectively, whereas the Equestrian crown answers to nopony.
We know that private property exists in Equestria since Rarity has a landlord to whom she has to pay rent. We also know wage labour exists since Rarity, element of "generosity", has employees which she generously exploits. Rarity seeks to expand her fledgling fashion empire, to put more employees under her hoof, to accumulate more and more capital, placing her firmly in the bourgeois camp. There is some evidence of class struggle as well, as one episode features a recently crowned Twilight Sparkle breaking a strike. Primitive accumulation has likely happened historically, as evidenced by ponies like Filthy Rich.
[2]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI-5I8bvXFo >>382233/3
Private property, markets and wage labour are the hallmarks of capitalism, so it seems safe to conclude that Equestria operates under a form of capitalism not as developed as ours but capitalist nonetheless. The Windigo/friendship situation might prevent capitalism from developing fully, for the resulting proletarianization of ponykind would threaten Equestria itself. This threat might not actually be something that Equestria's bourgeoisie takes seriously. Compare this to our own bourgeoisie's disregard for climate situation here on Earth, an equally cataclysmic threat. It is possible that the crown sees this threat, and actively seeks to avoid it, but with a more hooves-off approach.
The above shows us that Equestria shares some traits with the political economy of our world, but overall it is very different. The necessity of maintaining friendship places a limit on exploitation within the Equestrian economy. On the other hoof plenty of ponies are still subject to exploitation on account of the existence of wage labour. Whether this latent class tension may ever blossom into a full crisis is difficult to say. Should the crown somehow be toppled this may likely be the result, and from our own history we know that the bourgeoisie holds no particular fondness for royalty and largely considers it an irrelevant relic of the past.
I probably spent way too much time on this, and I wish I could find more nerds on the internet who had make this kind of analysis that I could cite. Oh well. Yes I saw the Hallelujah Brony video but it's full of burger libness like thinking socialism == social democracy. Honestly I could write an equally long set of posts just on this video.
A Marxist analysis of Starlight Glimmer's town and a critique of Hallelujah Brony's analysis thereof
by marxfag
The two-part "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic" season five starter "The Cutie Map" centers around a small town lead by a unicorn pony named Starlight Glimmer. In this town every pony shares the same cutie mark, an equals sign. The equals sign represents Starlight Glimmer's philosophy, a kind of equality based on sameness, of nopony excelling in any particular skill. This is very different from the rest of Equestrian society where a pony's cutie mark represents their special talent, their place in the division of labour.
The town is very remote, with the nearest train stop also being the end of its line. It consists of just thirteen buildings, each one unlikely to house more than perhaps two families, say eight ponies. Starlight Glimmer lives on her own. This puts the population of the town at under 100. 99 if I counted the cutie mark vault correctly. This is not enough ponies to maintain a distinct mode of production all on their own.
The town does not seem to make use of money. This suggests a kind of primitive communism, the kind we see within families or groups of friends. The town's remoteness and lack of visible agriculture contrasts with other more developed parts of rural Equestria such as Appleoosa.
Communism as a mode of production, the hypothetical end state of the socialist project, is characterized by the maxim "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need". Abundance. Ponies being free to realize their full potential. We see this to some extent in the rest of Equestria, though hampered by wage labour, private property and the vestigial crown. This is in stark contrast with Glimglam's town, where each pony is stripped of their unique abilities. There is no division of labour, neither technical nor social. The resulting mediocre productivity is very plain to see. Shoddy cloaks. Bland cupcakes. Drab curtains.
This leaves the question what the town is exactly. The obvious answer is a destructive cult. The town is just the unhealthy way in which Starlight tries to cope with her insecurities. This works for the show, since we want to teach children to develop and think for themselves and not just conform to peer pressure, and to not take their problems out on others, but to ask for help instead.
Not much more can be said about the episode or the town. It is too small to maintain its own mode of production. It is too small to function as a state, an instrument of class rule. The townsponies are subjects of the Equestrian crown, as evidenced by the crown sending in its friendship police, the mane six.
1/4
>>382282/4
Hallelujah Brony's video
https://youtube.com/watch?v=aEaZR3wyraAEarly on HB makes the argument that the town is an example of egalitarianism. That all ponies are of equal value and worthy of respect. And we can ascribe some of this to Starlight's philosophy for sure. But at its core Starlight's philosophy is one of the abolishment of the division of labour, the pressing of all ponies into the same mould. This is not the goal of communists, since it contradicts with "from each according to ability". Note that I use "communist" and "socialist" interchangably. For socialists/communists the end goal is always communism.
After this, HB gets into definitions, which is where we encounter the main problem. HB posits that there are three systems, three modes of production: capitalism, socialism and communism. Capitalism in Germany and the US, socialism in Norway, Sweden and China and communism in the USSR and Cuba. Capitalism is accurate, so let's look at "socialism".
What HB tries to say here is that socialism is when there is a mixed economy, where the state has more oversight over the economy, when the government does stuff while the economy itself remains capitalist. But this is not what socialists mean by these terms. Socialism is a distinct mode of production, "to each according to their contribution", what Marx called "lower-phase" communism. See Marx' Critique of the Gotha Programme (
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/). It is a tit-for-tat type of communism. Over time, possibly several generations, the need for such tit-for-tat should wither away, and a "higher-phase" communist mode of production would thus prevail: "from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs". We call that state of affairs communism. A stateless, classless, moneyless society of abundance where everypony is free to develop themselves fully. Whether this is actually possible to achieve is unknown, possibly unknowable.
>>382293/4
With the above said, are the countries HB label as socialist, socialist? No, they are not. This is not to say "not real communism!" but rather a statement of fact. The country that is arguably closest is China, but even the Communist Party of China doesn't say its economy is communist, or even socialist. The current slogan in China is "socialism by 2050". Similarly the USSR didn't called itself communist, even though it was run by communists. The USSR did call itself socialist, or sometimes "transitioning to socialism", depending on what era we're talking about. For example Josef Stalin proclaimed at the end of the second five year plan that the union had finally achieved socialism. But in the 1950's Stalin admitted that this wasn't really the case. See part III of Political Economy (
https://www.marxists.org/subject/economy/authors/pe/). Khrushchev talked about "communism by 1980", which obviously didn't happen as the USSR instead went the route of liberalization, shock therapy and dissolution. This is why it is very important to be specific with what terms like "socialism" or "communism" mean.
So this is the main problem with HB's thesis, and it is stated explicitly by him at 2:37. On top of this is the notion that Glimglam's little commune is a mode of production unto itself. But it is still under the hoof of the crown. At 2:50 HB again claims that socialism is "partly capitalistic", which it is not.
HB does provide some useful questions we can ask. What is their social structure? Who owns the means of production? What is their political system? How is the market structured? These are all useful questions, except for the last one which does not apply to socialism or communism since they, by definition, have no market.
When answering "what is their social structure?", HB claims that classes have been abolished. But not only are the townsponies subjects of the crown, they are also ruled over by Starlight Glimmer through.. let's say "powerful suggestion".
>>382304/4
Who owns the means of production? We know that Equestria has private property. We see very little evidence of means of production, especially of what Marx calls fixed capital. Where does the bakery get its flour from? There is no mill. There are no fields. Where does the barber buy his combs and scissors? Does he make them himself? Where does he get the metal? HB is probably right that the townsponies own their houses in some way. If Starlight owned all of it then she could choose to evict everypony purely out of spite. But dwellings are personal property, not private property, so this doesn't tell us much about who controls the MoPs.
HB suggests that Glimglam decides what is to be produced, and this is why the choice of clothes, baked goods and so on is so limited. But this is more easily explained by the mediocre productivity caused by the townsponies' lack of special talents, the abolishment of the division of labour by fiat. When doctors are forced to be bakers, or barbers to be cobblers, the result is shoddy work. Pauperism is not socialism, still less communism.
Around 7:33 HB suggests that the town could be a fascist state. But one hundred ponies does not a state make. HB is correct to note that Glimmy doesn't have a military. This again is due to the small size of the town. Fascism arises in capitalism whenever class tensions come to a boil. It is a tool used by the bourgeoisie. It is open class warfare. And as I have already discussed, Equestrian society has barely entered capitalism. It has not had time to decay into fascism, nor is it likely to. The collective psychic gestalt of Equestria literally grows stronger the more friends it makes.
HB ends by claiming that he has made an "educational video". But since specifics are important when talking about political economy, I disagree. It's half-assed because HB hasn't done the necessary reading.
>>38272>Sorry, sci-hub has not included this article yetgot pdf?
>picslol
>>38559MLPG sure was a shithole.
But sometimes I miss that shithole, just a little bit.
Fond memories of gawking at background ponies for any standouts. Sad that got ruined too.
>>38561>and tens of thousands of fan fics/comics/etcNot sure about that, especially with adenture time I've seen plenty of fanfics and comics, but I agree on the convention thing, only other fandom I've seen do a dedicated convention for just itself is Star Trek. Usually conventions are about a genre or medium, like furry, steampunk, renaisance, comic, anime, film, ect.. from what I understand.
>>39156No, no, you don't.
>>37939 (OP)
>hegemonic Western gender normsAnon, most people follow those very gender norms out of social pressure, not out of a genuine desire. They obviously don't give a single flying fuck about them if they are in private, and the more isolated and introverted you are, the less fuck you give. That obviously correlates with autism. Also colorful characters like in Sonic, autists seem to like that too… And some fans are into porn, yes.
>>39197Do you think people temporarily dissociate from the real world and become completely rational & self-aware when they write books or something? These women are being hypocritical towards the femininity rat race for the same reason a man who's critiquing the masculinity rat race wouldn't just write shit like "I don't care so that makes me a beta male, I guess. So what?". They both instead try to weasel around it and find a way to still be "masculine" or "feminine".
All of that doesn't disprove that anon's point. It'd still be embarrassing & damaging to their social prestige to write that, so you haven't proven that they really & actually want to be seen as masculine/feminine purely out of their own volition.
>>39258>>39260>you haven't proven that they really & actually want to be seen as masculine/feminine purely out of their own volition.Yeah I realized half-way through writing it I was kinda schizo-rambling. It really depends on what you mean by "volition"; which ends up as a free will debate. If I pull my hand away from a hot stove did I "want" to not get burned because skin damage could cause cancer or simply had an involuntary reaction to pain that coincided with a longer lifespan? Do I "want" to be masculine to get laid or is it just instinct to perform arbitrarily masculine social behaviors around females? It's both; the average normie doesn't really think about it beyond how to improve their appearance to others. If they get compliments they continue the behavior, if they get insults they disengage.
I guess you could say the illusion of free will is the ultimate cope. Any past behavior can be construed in any framework that makes your ego feel better. Normies do what makes them feel good, and fitting in is what does it. Autists don't follow gender norms cuz they're smarter, they just don't get the dopamine high from social conformity and rage-cope when the things they want (sex, companionship) are predicated on following that conformity.
>>39460Saberspark is a retard tbh. He has a few good takes but… Anyway Gen 1 was pretty dark at times and Tirac from the G1 movie was a fucking genocidal devil centaur.
Gen 4 is almost entirely teacups and frilliness, because its treated as something for young audiences and was meant to teach young children positive messages while also being funny and cute. It was a different niche compared to the original series.
G5 IDK.
>>39612four hooves good
two hooves bad
let's not even talk about >no hooves >>40559synopsis:
>chapter 6pony harry's dream is visited by three dominant alicorn mares. definitely no subtext here
>chapter 7pony harry and the washing machine of mystery. also pony joyce is a nerd
>chapter 8pony harry and the dominant police chief mare. definitely no subtext. will the diversity hire pass the drug test?
>>40729fanfiction.net is a terrible website unfortunately but if you sort by number of favourites then you will roughly speaking get the better fics at the top. fimfiction is a lot better IMO because it has a upvote and downvote system, if you sort by rating it's decent
https://www.fimfiction.net/stories?order=topthough most of the fics that are most highly rated are one chapter for some reason so if you search specifically for longer fics that helps
https://www.fimfiction.net/stories?q=words%3A%3E50000&order=toppersonally my most memorable fic is
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/18087/the-best-night-ever read it years ago and enjoyed it. I also read a Helluva Boss fic with the same premise a month ago and enjoyed that, not sure if they were inspired by the MLP fic or if it's just a popular fanfic trope
https://archiveofourown.org/works/34956403/chapters/87055096 >>40735>little to no obnoxious javascript crapIs this heaven?
Watch and learn, Leftypol.
>>40771yeah it's pretty fun, some interesting communist paths too especially considering harmonists in this setting aren't nearly as bad as the supposed democracies of our world
though i wish zebrica had a few more pony nations, and stalliongrad is in need of a rework
>>40852>All of the users listed in this document are either involved in some way with the consumption, creation, promotion, and/or distribution of material that sexualizes children, or have shown in some capacity to not be safe to have in a server with minors.
>Some of the information in this report has been reported to service providers and to law enforcement, as some of the actions and activity discovered are in violation of service agreements or US law. At least one arrest is known to have been made. I don't get it, is this link you have made by a single person? From all the data and names this guy colected, only one person was arrested for pedo stuff. There should be more regulations so that "foal" stuff is not considered "normal", nor desirable, but correct me if i interpreted the data in the wrong way, just one guy was an actual pedophile. MLP is kinda dead anyway, no children watches it anymore, is just a funny cartoon show of magical horses and friendship with memes, also great mods like EAW and TNO.
Discord should not allow kids and young people in there, is not safe at all >>43050right, I'm confusing it with indentured servants. like Benjamin Franklin who was indentured to his brother and learned to print books as part of it
well we don't have much to go on I think - it's conceivable that the ponies working in Rarity's shops are co-owners
>>43181>How original. don't care
Agent Kochinski pls go
>>43173I like it. It feels like a theater play where they don't make a big deal about the 4th wall.
The pacing is way too fast tho, they need more quiet moments so kids can actually process what they're looking at before being hit with more information. Even my 24 year old brain can barely keep up.
>>43197Soundtrack is great, especially the stuff with Adrianne Cowan singing.
I haven't watched it yet but my not yet challenged assumption is well thought out music = well thought out story too.
>>43198 (me)
Also this two part banger.
I thought Adrianne was in this one, as I figured All Hail Savior from Arknights sounded like part 2, but I guess not.
A short answer to all posts I'm replying to: See the RWBY thread
>>>/anime/8783 Honestly I just suggest watching the trailers on youtube Red, White, Black and Yellow.
>>43197It's definitely not generic anime trash, but it does have an obvious anime influence.
It's something that started off as an early 2010s machinima, so there's jank and other issues reminiscent of many 90s/early-2000s cartoons with 3D elements. A big appeal was the fight choreography of the first 3 Volumes, which is what Monty was well known for. Regardless, it's still fun, the soundtrack is fucking great, the original 3 volumes have a pretty good story with a unique world and design and its generally fun. The plot gets stupider over time as does some of the writing (even as the animation improves), but to be short, you either like it or you don't. I did because I watched it come out on youtube and I just enjoyed it for what it was and even when it took a down-turn after Monty died, I still enjoyed parts of it. It's certainly not any worse than MLP.
On a different note, regardless of the actual show, A LOT of RWBY fics, especially crossovers tend to be really fun and good.
>>43198>>43200 As a fan from the start, I'll say outright it's a mixed bag. It's not a work of high art.
>>43595The voice sounds kinda AI to me, obviously at least some human intervention would be needed for the visuals, honestly I got bored and stopped watching after like 30 seconds though.
I don't think they can ever get the original magic (if you will) back
Unique IPs: 60