WHAT IS MULTIPOLARISMMultipolarism449 posts and 147 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
, in its most basic form, posits a world where multiple powers (countries or entities) exist in a state of relative equilibrium, challenging the unipolar hegemony led mainly by the United States post-Cold War. The emergence of China, the reassertion of Russia, the rise of regional powers like India, Brazil, and South Africa, among others, suggest a move towards this multipolar world.BUT
is it rly just Capitalism 2: Electric Boogaloo - Neo-Dengism Edition
? To what extent is multipolarism just capitalist nationalism for people not in green on this map? If the whole thrust of socialism is now just "America bad" what becomes of the classical socialist goals of workers control of the means of production, and abolishing class society? RELATED THREADS
🇧🇷 • /brg/
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>>>/leftypol/1547942 >>>/leftypol/1575628 >>>/leftypol/1580774 >>>/leftypol/1582853 >>>/leftypol/1585583On the last episode of Multi-Polar Z
Sure bro lmao. It's not like because of a very specific thing happened to the jews to create this..
Are you going to kvetch about americans being called burgers, filthy and pigs too?
About Brits being called pedophiles and ham sandwiches?
So disingenuous lol.
From what I can tell, Ben Norton did exactly that. He called into question the leadership of the party. I think you need to be more generous to the points of the other anon. If you try to cancel Ben for some stupid niche shit, you might as well cancel all socialists because no socialist is pure and perfect, starting with yourself that engages in these purity purges, a liberal vestige ;)
I'm just saying how your posts come off.
>>1607284>YPG the have no right to seize the power and resourses in 90% arab region under SDF face
You guys are always resorting to legalistic spookery when it comes to this issue, shit which I know you don't believe because you would never apply it against a government you like, or in favour of one you dislike. The Tsar was the "legitimate" government of Russia, but you wouldn't attack the Bolsheviks on that basis. Legally speaking, Russia had no "right" to invade Ukraine, but no self-respecting multipolarista would give a shit, nor should they. I don't think communists should put much stock in such abstractions. Rojava are acting in their interests, they are doing it because they can. The only question is to what extent those interests are opposed to those of the progressive tasks at hand in Syria (e.g. national liberation, anti-imperialism), or alternatively to what degree they can be brought in line with those tasks. Now I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Rojava's interests at the current moment are 100% aligned with those of Syrian national liberation, but they aren't 100% opposed either, and to the extent that they are opposed, I contend that this could be rectified via a reconciliation with Damascus. In regards to the oil issue specifically, I fail to see how exactly this is hurting Syria as a country.
Also, if you carefully read the article posted here >>1607216
it specifically mentions that a point of contention with the tribal Arab population in Deir al-Zor is that they, <overlook, in both its written publications and its oral discourse, the importance of the uprising against the regime, it will drive a further wedge between itself and those who led the uprising in Deir al-Zor, one of the revolution’s strongholds.
In other words it almost sounds like one of the grievances causing this tension is that the SDF are not perceived to be sufficiently anti-Assad.>>1607258>who are the kurds exporting to
The US and/or Europe presumably.>who's getting the money?
According to >>1607193
it's going to fund the SDF's military operations, which are primarily directed against Turkey and ISIS remnants.
Just to clarify so as to avoid any misunderstanding, that article is saying that the Arabs currently beefing with the SDF in Deir al-Zor are angry at the Kurds for not being anti-Assad enough, that they aren't giving enough "importance to the uprising against the [Assad] regime."
>>1607299>so its not a way around the sanctions
How is it not? If Syria were able to export its oil, wouldn't it be good for them to use it to drive out the Turkish occupiers? So why is it bad when the SDF does exactly the same thing?
Ben Norton accuses communists of siding with fascists and imperialists because they have a class analysis, he's not unpure or imperfect, he's just a libshit.
>>1607303>wouldn't it be good for them to use it to drive out the Turkish occupiers?
yes>So why is it bad when the SDF does exactly the same thing?
because they are also occupiers
Are you informed on the issue?
Trying to frame the ISIS remants and local criminals as some kind of Arab Tribal resistance is still inherently disingenuous.
To me, aside the turkish framing of 'kurds vs arabs' in deir ez-zor, this still makes zero sense, as fighters came from the Syrian side of the river and the claim from the SDF is that Abu Khawla was working partially with the Syrian government.
Maybe i'm dumb or misunderstanding but this position all comes across as incoherent.>>1607305
Feels like people forget here a lot that these people are not communists or leftists, they are 'anti-imperialists' first and so share a fundimentaly different world view to us, seeing the world instead of 'imperial states vs anti-imperialist states' dichotomy.
>>1607337>their own homeland
If you aren't going to distinguish between foreign invaders and local people when you throw the term "occupier" around then the word loses all meaning.
That doesn't answer the question…
Why are you linking dead links? Or did it die in the last 16 hours?
>>1606592>(if the tweet is deleted, use other links)
I don't even get it, where and why did you have this link saved just so you could drop dead links on us? Do you have it in a google doc or somewhere lol?>>1606767>dead link and it's not archived anywhere, very cool anfem, thanks
I really don't get it. Gotta be one of the weirdest leftypol users and that's saying something.
A GSAF is not "funded by Goldman Sachs." It's a financial services account. You don't know anything about banking. The money came from an Indian tech guy with left-wing politics who sold his business and made a lot of money out of it. Also good job quoting India's far-right government trying to bring down a communist website.
I'm checking out of geopolitics now because it is getting too esoteric for me and nobody seems to be having an easy time formulating a viewpoint more coherent than "war does suck, huh."
>>1607281>Russia's economy and society display few or none of the markers of imperialism>clearly not imperialist >If the political left fails to apply rigorous economic and social criteria to identifying imperialist countries…
wew lad, don't mind if I do<Russia<its monopolies make up 60%-70% of its economy<it has a financial oligarchy<it is a net exporter of capital<it is a part of the UN and BRICs in which both can considered be groups of capitalist countries that include other imperialist powers (USA and China)<It invaded Ukraine and annexed portions of the country showing that it has interests in creating its own territorial divisions in the world<also has the fifth largest army and is packed to the tits with nukes
Not to mention the super exploitation it does to other countries such as Uzbekistan (Russian investment is around 56% there counter that with the fact that the average Uzbek wage is around a quarter to the average Russian wage).
Russia is imperialist. Nowhere nearly as big as the US but imperialist nonetheless.
Why you gotta lie campist scumbags? Just accept what you are, ie campist scumbags!
So "campism" and "anti-americanism" are totally cool with you?
>>1607263>muh unequal development>t-they're not as advanced
<Syrian Kurds accuse Turkey of violations, Russia says peace plan on track
<The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) accused Turkey on Thursday of launching a large land offensive targeting three villages in northeast Syria despite a truce, but Russia said a peace plan hammered out this week was going ahead smoothly.
<Under the plan, agreed by Presidents Tayyip Erdogan and Vladimir Putin, Syrian Kurdish forces are to withdraw more than 30 km (19 miles) from the Turkish border, a goal Russia’s RIA news agency, quoting an SDF official, said was already achieved.
<The deal agreed with Putin, which builds on and widens a previous U.S.-brokered ceasefire, helped end the fighting.
<Russia, a close ally of President Bashar al-Assad that has emerged as the key geopolitical player in Syria, has begun deploying military police near the Turkish border as part of the deal agreed on Tuesday in the Russian city of Sochi.
<“Everything is being implemented,” Interfax news agency quoted Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Vershinin as saying.
<RIA, citing an SDF official, said the Kurdish fighters had already withdrawn to 32 km (20 miles) away from the border. It also said the Kurds were ready to discuss joining the Syrian army once the crisis in Syria had been settled politically.
<Russia will send a further 276 military police officers and 33 units of military hardware to Syria in a week, RIA news agency cited a Defence Ministry source as saying. It also quoted Russia’s Defence Ministry as saying Russian military police had patrolled along a new 60-km (37-mile) route on the border.https://www.reuters.com/article/syria-security-idUKKBN1X319A
I have trouble believing Russia is capable of maintaining a peace plan between Turkey and a country they wish to bully after what happened with Armenia.
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? <article from 2019
A lot has changed in the past 4 years since then.
Turkey continues to fund mercenaries and conduct terrorist ops- something, again, which the AANES (in collaboration with the arab tribes that they are so-called "opressing" is capable of handling themselves nowadays, as pointed out here: https://anfenglishmobile.com/rojava-syria/manbij-military-council-52-mercenaries-were-killed-102-others-injured-69240https://anfenglishmobile.com/rojava-syria/operation-security-reinforcement-in-deir-ez-zor-successfully-completed-69213
that's not even getting into the fact that Turkey goes back on its statements and treaties. https://anfenglishmobile.com/rojava-syria/sohr-turkish-border-guards-killed-and-injured-nearly-65-syrians-since-early-2023-69477>>1607507>I have trouble believing russia is capable of maintaining a peace plan between turkey
given how turkey regularly attacks, you're right to be skeptical.
The fascist class traitor Putin belongs dangling from the end of a rope rather than in a portrait being admired.
>>1607541>class traitor putin
he's bourgois though
>>1606767>>1606769>The People's Forum receives money from goldman sachs
Dude, why are you repeating anti-communist propaganda? Why is it a bad thing for us communists that a billionaire is committing class suicide by giving money to orgs like Codepink and the People's Forum, who very clearly wish to abolish billionaires? Do you want the people to win? Or do you wish to remain defeated, poor, unorganized, and "pure" in your theory? Because the rest of us would like very much for the people to win, and for there to be trained, capable leaders among the people who know how to win.
The TPF is teaching people Marxism-Leninism and exposing the contradictions of imperialist capitalism. What exactly have you done for the people's movement? Do you think that an anti-imperialist movement can function without money? Do you think operations like this can subsist in the middle of the belly of the beast, in New York City, with only spare change? Are you nuts? How do you think TPF has accomplished so much in a mere five years? Does it upset your purity fetish that the Grayzone and TPF receives money with which to conduct operations? Even the Black Panthers needed money and had wealthy benefactors… https://www.liberationnews.org/journalists-or-witch-hunters-examining-the-new-york-times-shameful-red-scare-history/https://youtu.be/G4-OAwIQHxk
<Of particular concern to the United States should be the increasingly apparent signs of potential convergence between the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF)—Washington’s partner in the war against the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS)—and the Assad regime’s chief sponsor, Russia.
<The Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG) has a history of opportunistically working with the Assad regime. Underscoring this point, a Kurdish YPG general told this author that following recent developments, “There are many things that we are working on with the Syrian regime and Russia. In the future, there will be great success between us.”
<YPG leadership is said to be reassessing the strategic importance of its ties with what is an increasingly unreliable Washington, and is looking to further diversify its portfolio of international partners, with an eye toward strengthening ties with Russia.
<The YPG struck a deal with Russia and the Assad regime allowing them to move their forces into areas previously under Kurdish control to deter Turkey and its Syrian National Army proxy forces from pressing further into territory east of the Euphrates.
<The SDF’s political wing has confirmed, that it is engaged in discussions with Moscow over the terms of any future reconciliation with the Assad regime.
<Ultimately, it was the US abandonment in October 2019 of the SDF and its accompanying ‘astrategic approach’ toward areas east of the Euphrates, and indeed the broader Syrian war, that accelerated the SDF’s drift toward the Russia-Assad orbit.
<As the YPG general explained, “There is no solution for us, and we need an international force behind us, that is why we are making agreements with Assad and Russia.” https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/amid-us-uncertainty-in-syria-kurdish-ypg-eyes-bolstering-ties-with-russia/
If you deposed Putin right now and installed a libby peace dove, what you would have is the total dismemberment of Russia and a further reduction of their standard of living. Even the Russian Communist Party recognizes that if Russia were to be vanquished by neo-Nazi controlled Ukraine/NATO, it would constitute a total calamity for the sovereignty of Russia. https://youtu.be/uRuDwuv36z4
Those neoliberal imperialist demons at The Atlantic even admitted that their desire for Russia is to be dismembered, and they articulated as much in their article entitled "Decolonize Russia." https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/russia-putin-colonization-ukraine-chechnya/639428/
It is WRONG that Putin invaded, but it was even worse that Jens Stoltenberg or whatever the fuck his name is, secretary of NATO, had heard Putin's very legitimate demand that Ukraine not be added to NATO, and Jens said, no, you don't get to tell us what to do, we get to do what we want; that's a non-starter. Jens of NATO did this knowing that he had the full backing of the U.S. because NATO is an appendage of U.S imperialism and has been the instrument of contemporary imperialism in Libya, Afghanistan, and Yugoslavia (all of which, by the way, had been described by the so-called "Free" (imperialist-capitalist) Press as being "humanitarian interventions").
I hate it when the contrarian Zizek says things that are correct. Stupid RADLIBS are getting mad in this dumbass thread over the fact that the Grayzone, or that TPF is receiving money from billionaires … MOTHERFUCKER. HOW. THE FUCK. DO YOU THINK. A MOVEMENT. IS. CULTIVATED? You INFANTILE RETARDS cannot seem to figure out that in order to have consistently principled, well-disciplined leaders of the working class that you have to cultivate such leaders, and to cultivate leaders of the working class, you need to train them, you need to have them in reading groups, and you need to give them the resources they need to do organizing, because the necessary experience that is needed to be able to lead a working class movement to victory in a time of true, revolutionary crisis, is not gained via dreams, it is not gained through shitposting on X or leftypol or reddit. It is not acquired by merely uploading polemical videos to youtube and tiktok. If you want good revolutionary leaders, it takes time, it takes money, lots of money, and it takes humility. YOU FUCKING ASSHOLES HAVE NEITHER OF THESE THINGS. SO SHUT THE FUCK UP. >>1606769>Cope harder bitch. If Grayzone is so principled why are they so secretive of showing who funds them?
The recent NYTIMES trash went out of its way to "expose" that a billionaire gave his money to Codepink and TPF, but notice that the NYTIMES has no problem with billionaires funding the Democratic Party. Why do you suppose that is? It is because TPF poses a threat to imperialist capitalism. It is because the TPF exposes the role that NYTIMES plays. It is because NYTIMES has always been on the side of imperialism and needs to cultivate this illusion of politics that we call bourgeois elections, where they obfuscate the fact that both the Democrats and the Republicans are funded by the same racist pedophiles. TPF and Codepink tell people that the Democrats are liars just like the Republicans, that Biden is a warmongerer and a criminal, and NYTIMES rushes in to "save the day" from the billionaire who has "Chinese Ties" … Literally every fucking business man has ties to China in the current day and age because it is one of the fastest growing economies in the world, because so much of American manufacturing has moved to China, because China is actually a relevant country and will remain a relevant country for years to come, whereas the United States is crumbling and collapsing.
The fact of the matter is: the popular moral conceptions of the day are the moral conceptions of the ruling class. If you think it is morally difficult that leftists who *actually* want to get stuff done may occasionally receive money from a billionaire that is committing class suicide, then you have identified with the other billionaires that disapprove of class suicide, that disapprove of advancing the class war in the interest of overthrowing the rule of the billionaire class, that, in-fact, seek to frustrate the efforts of the communists.
>>1606769>>1606767>>https://fashbusters.wordpress.com/2021/11/02/does-goldman-sachs-fund-the-peoples-forum-psl-codepink-aipac-and-vijay-prashads-tricontinental/>so more shitlib groups that are funded by goldman sachs? what does this have to do with gray zone again?
Why do you consider Vijay Prashad, Tricontinnental, TPF to be "shitlib" groups? Vijay is literally the most principled anti-communist Marxist-Leninist in the current day and age. Tell me what makes him, or TPF, or Tricon "shitlib"?
Again, how is them forming a truce between assad and russia a bad thing? This is probably more of an indicator that they're not CIA backed.
Are you suggesting they're becoming "reliant" on them? Because as seen here: >>1607519
This isn't the case.
Thank God, please stop commentating on things besides asinine e-celeb drama or your cringe /k/ friends. You’re not equipped for it
>>1607667<"World Knowledge": The Russian leadership has repeatedly claimed that they face a historic opportunity to end U.S. hegemony and reorganize the international order. Your introduction to the meeting just now reflects this trend of thought. In terms of Russia's current international situation, especially when it is heavily sanctioned by the United States and the West, do you think Russia is getting closer or further away from this goal?
>Wu Dahui: The Russian leadership indeed believes that the prospects for a multi-polar world structure are becoming increasingly clear, and now a strong force is needed to guide it. Russia believes that the decline of U.S. and Western hegemony is unstoppable, and the rise of emerging powers as the main center of power in the world is equally unstoppable. China is the main factor leading the world to form a new center of power. In this process, if China, Russia, India, ASEAN and other countries can join hands, they will effectively promote the accelerated formation of multipolarity.
>At the same time, the composition of a country's core competitiveness is also changing. The world can no longer rely on military hard power to determine the world as it did in the past. In addition to factors such as population, territory, economy, military strength, strategic intentions, and national will, there must also be taking into account the level of national governance and decision-making capabilities. At present, the gap between Russia's power and China and the United States is getting wider and wider, and there has not yet been a trend of shrinking again. Its scientific and technological innovation and global influence are all shrinking. However, Russia still has irreplaceable hard power. One is its energy supply capacity, and the other is its grain production capacity. Measured by comprehensive production capacity of oil, natural gas, coal, etc., Russia remains the world's largest energy exporter. Russia has also restored its status as a major grain exporter that was once weakened by the Ukraine crisis. In the first half of this year, grain exports reached more than 70 million tons. Many countries in Africa and the Middle East cannot get rid of their dependence on Russia for grain.
>Relying on the world's largest nuclear arsenal and a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council, Russia will be an important pole in the multi-polar world and occupy a place in the competition between major powers. However, its development path cannot be copied. From a historical perspective, Russia’s previous rises and renaissances have not been characterized by economic development. From the time of Peter the Great in the early 18th century, to defeating Napoleon at the Battle of Borodino in 1812, participating in and even leading the creation of the Vienna System in 1815, and then to the Crimean War in 1854, Russia has been the number one military power in Europe and even the world. They are accustomed to speaking based on military strength.
>Now that Russia is still developing along historical inertia, it is difficult to integrate into the Western-dominated international system, especially the global economic and scientific and technological innovation system. In future international competition and strategic games, Russia cannot achieve the goal of reorganizing the international order on its own. It needs more than ever to shape an international environment that is favorable to itself through cooperation with other countries.
<"World Knowledge": The West defines China and Russia as "revisionist countries in the current international order." However, judging from the consistent discourse of the Russian leadership, it is more interested in overthrowing the current order and starting over, and confronting China from within the current order. Their ideas for reform and improvement seem to be different. Do you think the existence of this difference will affect the effectiveness of strategic cooperation between China and Russia?
>Wu Dahui: In the formation and development process of the current international order, China has always been a participant, beneficiary and contributor. Russia believes that the current international order is dominated by the West and is increasingly based on rules set by the United States. It has entered a state of "exhaustion" and even "chaos" and is unable to support the normal and reasonable operation of the world, and must undergo root surgery. These are different from our views and opinions. However, the two countries have a basic consensus on opposing international hegemony and bullying and promoting democratization of international relations, which forms the basis of strategic coordination.
>China and Russia have a common border of more than 4,300 kilometers. As the saying goes, "neighbors cannot be chosen." The two countries can only be on good terms and not on bad terms. The United States' global strategy has moved towards "dual containment" of China and Russia. At the same time, it attempts to divide the world into Western and non-Western camps based on each country's stance on the Ukraine issue. China and Russia have been classified into the non-Western camp. Such a situation leaves China and Russia with no choice but to continuously strengthen strategic coordination. Of course, the era we live in cannot achieve absolute security by playing with the balance of major powers and using one country to balance another. The prospects for national strength development and major power competition still depend to a large extent on the level of domestic governance and development.
This. Saying that it's "Funded by Goldman Sachs" makes it sound like an investment bankers are directing mutual funds to literally who leftist forums to either get profit or as some sort of long term glowop campaign. What actually happens is that an Indian dirigist contributed private money to state capitalist shills like Grayzone
But anon you should always be good. Good will prevail because it just will because good is nicer than bad. :)
Probably because a large amount of international trade is still done in US dollars and they remain extremely useful.
that's the video I tried to find and post
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