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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


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Tomorrow a huge protest will be held in the capital of Serbia, Belgrade, protesting the government’s refusal to accept the demands made by the students, as well as protesting against general incompetence and corruption. From the student to the teacher, worker and pensioner, war veterans and children all around Serbia will gather together in this protest.
Is this really it? Some policemen announced that they won’t be going to work tomorrow and that they have no intention of beating up children. This might be the only chance that the opposition gets to forcefully remove the president from office.
The implications are obvious; a color revolution is in the works. Unlike the protests in Greece, the Serbian protests have no class character. The left is very weak, and the protest attendees range from neonazis to liberals and communists (most likely due to the fact the protests have been organized “apolitically”). The situation in Serbia is very volatile, and the validity of these protests need to be questioned more seriously, since no matter how much they deny it, this reeks of liberal infighting. Only time will tell what the consequences of these past few months will be, and whether this will be another October 5th or just a failed mass movement.
319 posts and 58 image replies omitted.

>>2215430
yeah extremely
the government id despised and the liberal opposition are considered morons and totally discredited so the people are looking around for another direction. Serbia is the country to watch at this moment in my opinion. Very ripe situation.

>>2215429
From what I've heard recently the only university that stayed based and true to the original goals of the blockades is Belgrade's university of philosophy where they are making their opportunistic professors seethe because they can see right through them

>>2215947
That’s where he is I think

>>2200857
>have you wondered why there is no general strike? because it's illegal to strike in Serbia. only the highest syndical instance in Serbia has the right to declare strike across branches. so if you want workers to join you'll first have to appeal the law on strikes.
How do you think strikes became permissible in the first places? Workers went on illegal strikes until the state legalised striking, as in promising not to punish striking workers with live ammunition. If you have a trade union that doesn't do strikes and can't even threaten to strike, it's not a trade union, it's an NGO. Maybe a lefty NGO, but an NGO. Submitting to strike laws is basically carrying water for the liberal opposition, because if they don't go on a strike, striking will remain illegal, but forming stupid libshit parties and boosting them with CIA funded propaganda will stay legal and as such remain the only avenue to express discontent, to the benefit of SNS.

I don't want to be overly cynical, especially as a foreigner, but if the unions remain passive for whatever reason (corruption or just lack of worker support), then this is going to end in a liberal victory which will lead to an SNS victory.

The tensions continue to rise.

I have a hot take, I came to this understanding as I began to think more about our circumstances in Serbia.

Serbia has a "kulak"-like problem. In the sense of, this is not a standard worker vs bourgeois struggle.

What is the problem? Liberals call it corruption, but the word "corruption" actually obfuscates the graveness of the situation. Maybe that's why some anons here don't understand why this is not typical political corruption like say in the US.

We essentially have a class of people who have all taken, individually, a "slice of the pie" for themselves. The pie in question? The very capital of the state - the resources like money and property. This class of people is not, mind, exclusively the politicians and oligarchs at the top - it in fact includes the incompetent nepotistically-employed state employees. As we say in Serbian, "preko veze" (I know a guy who can help you…)

It is literally in their interest as a class of people for the continued robbery of the state to continue. At the expense of everyone else living here and paying already high taxes even at the lowest income brackets. The Serbian people are collectively being robbed by these people. Not just robbed, slowly killed. And not in the sense of some ancap shit like "taxation is theft", to avoid misunderstanding, but in the sense that the capital from the taxes isn't even being used for what it would be used in a liberal capitalist state. Rather, it is directly used for self-benefit.

Uhleb. How to translate this word? Parasite? Hleb means bread. U means in. In-bread? Hand-in-bread? Bread-taker?

Here is an anecdote. My grandma lives very poor and receives social security (not a pension, she doesn't qualify for one, but literally social benefits). One recent winter, she told me, she went to the opština (local center or however you would translate it) to get wood, as wood is given out for free to people like her for heating. She told me, they refused to give her wood, because she wasn't a member of SNS. The uhlebi did that. The very same uhlebi we are supposed to feel sorry for, according to rightists. I can't express by text how furious I was when I heard that from my grandma.

This is class conflict and the lines are clear - uhlebi versus the rest of Serbia.

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Yugo-flag anon, I have to disappoint you. These are not serious communists. What is this performative radlib shit?
<In the book "Lenin" by Lev Danilkin, we find the passage:
>"Lenin, who in everyday speech often used the phrase 'only Allah knows' (Arabic: Allahu a'alam) to mean 'there is no information and there cannot be any.'"
<When we use Arabic terms like *"insha'Allah"* and *"alhamdulillah"*, we do so akin to the bygone Native American chant *"hoka-hey"*, for Arabs are to imperialists the Native Americans of the 21st century. Moreover, there are no words that can quite "upset" liberals, so we won’t waste time unmasking them.

Firstly, citing a literally who author? And I can't even find on Google Lenin's usage of this phrase.

Secondly, who the fuck are they kidding? Are we going to pretend now that Serbs via Bosniaks, Bosnian Muslims, who literally speak the same language and lived alongside Serbs in the same freaking country, have never heard of "inshallah"? Or that Serbs themselves don't literally use the Arabic borrowed phrase "mašala"? That our language doesn't have loads of Arabic loanwords via Turkish? No, this all seems very foreign gentlemen, this will surely own the libs.

This both glows ("here let me quote literally who J. Sakai to sound coincidentally inflammatory" energy) and is somehow miraculously out of touch with Serbian/Yugoslav culture and history.

>>2220799
>And I can't even find on Google Lenin's usage of this phrase.
in the book materialism and empirocriticism Lenin i think twice calls upon Allah

>>2220799
>These are not serious communists
yeah I think that's pretty clear, since their presence is limited to Xitter and Facebook, where they write witty posts. Oh well

>>2220836
Vučić again barely manages to mobilize 60k people even when he's bussing people in from Bosnia, Macedonia or Kosovo. Take that 3/4 were from Serbia proper, assume all are members of SNS and STILL this is just 40k out of almost 5.9mln people. No, these are not the 'poor and downtrodden' that joined SNS to survive, this is what remains of the machinery. I'm once again proven correct about my estimates that this less than 0.2% of actively supporting Vučić. Put them all into labor camps.

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rare tito

>>2220799
>And I can't even find on Google Lenin's usage of this phrase.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/three3.htm
<Allah alone knows from what source Bogdanov took this reference.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/tactics/
<It would be criminal, the new-Iskra leader-writer continues, “to attack the revolution in the rear”. What this sentence means, God only knows. ("allah" in the original Russian)
Though considering he wrote "allah" without capitalizing it, he obviously used it in a tongue-in-cheek way, not as some "anti-colonialist" statement

>>2220902
yeah, and the machinery of the SNS system still manages to oppress the people through their tactics, which one way or the other successfully forces people to support them. In other words, were there magically a referendum now which would determine the future of the party, with all the fraud and corruption aside, there would still be a big turnout on the side of the government.
The people take sides on the basis of surviving or on the side they think is the best. I don't think there is any diehard Vucic fan. Your " 0.2% of the population" stance is so far removed from the material conditions of the serbian workers and is laughable.

>>2206783
>>2206790
The expert government thing is gaining a lot of steam, I've heard that the proposal had majority support on the Great Meeting of Delegates of each town except Belgrade, and that it's quite shaky in Novi Sad too, because the biggest FTN was against. Hopefully the Belgrade faculties can figure out a good opposing idea.
I've also seen the criteria for experts that some of the pro-expert government faculties posted, and they're absurd. There's probably like less than 10 people who fulfill the criteria in the whole Serbia, I can't think of anyone. It is such a shit idea.

>>2221247
atp Belgrade is mostly against, novi sad also has the philosophy faculty and ftn against the expert government. but this is to be expected. the periphery is always more regressive than the main cities. but now an expert government is impossible without overthrowing Vučić (since he got someone to be premier). so nothing will happen. the fake opposition has no popular support to pull off a 6th October and the students are not going anywhere without a unified declaration

>>2221263
The fake opposition according to like two recent polls I saw has basically had no change in polling numbers lmao

Well, yugo ended up confirming it's a grassroot revolt

>>2243964
still a nothingburger

>>2221247
Now the expert government thing is being abandoned and instead some faculties voted that they want to create a political party to represent the student movement and call for parliamentary elections. This is probably not going to happen because SNS has to vote that in the parliament and they're probably going to lose if they did a snap election now, and they know it, while the scheduled election is in 2027.

>>2248799
It's official, it passed in the Great Meeting of Delegates of each town, meaning that the students are asking for parliamentary elections and forming a representative list for those elections, but that doesn't mean they're going to happen before 2027.
The students themselves aren't actually going to be on the list. They agreed to allocate a number of spaces on the list to each faculty in the country, then the plenums of each faculty will vote on people they want on their part of the list. The list will probably contain a lot of university professors.

>>2256267
This was to be expected, and should come as no surprise to anyone that a movement such as this would shoot itself in the foot. Is it officially over?

>>2256292
There's no talk about stopping the blockades yet, it's just a new thing to wait for. In my opinion the elections are not going to come either, just like the previous things they were waiting for.

>>2256296
If Russia admits they're killing Pussylips do you think our sns degenerates will still blame the west and western color revolution?

>>2256292
well it will probably linger for a while and the political atmosphere is going to be changed for at least a couple of years, but yeah it's over. good effort though can't blame the neoliberal youth for being blind they did their best

>>2256326
I don't think this is a western color revolution, just that the movement has a lot of liberal ideology around it and they're fighting in ineffective ways.

>>2256335
What a waste though. All the talk of a general strike, yet none were conscious enough to realize that without fighting for workers rights and interests there won’t be one. They really did not try even the slightest to mobilize the industrial worker

>>2256349
>were conscious enough to realize that without fighting for workers rights and interests there won’t be one
they were pretty good for the middle class. the last mayday protest was coordinated with them and syndicates and they demanded a change in the law on work and on strikes. so something concrete that helps worker organization.

>>2256363
I think that most students aren't so mind-poisoned that they thing that syndicates are bad, but I don't think they see organizing workers/workplaces as way of fighting, and relying only on already politically active syndicates isn't going to get you far because they've already been trying and failing to improve workers rights for decades.

>>2256363
It’s funny to see people accuse the protests of being organized by left wing radicals and anarchists. Would be kind of cool to see the PRL get some recognition

>>2256373
Actually, the talking point now is that the majority of students in blockade are good (they mean liberal) students but that a small minority of Khmer Rouges are derailing the whole movement.
There's also that Vucic's "bolshevik plenumers" quote from a few weeks ago.

>>2256387
Total Trivunac Victory

new osmatračnica

>the philosophy, economy and theology faculty came out together with an anti-EU statement after the students demanded elections and the EU vultures latched on the demand to get power
incredible developement

>>2266571
This is probably a reaction to pro-EU libs suddenly starting to complain about the fact that rightwing flags were allowed on the protests but EU flags were banned.

>>2267292
It's not that EU flags were banned. We just have a lot of fascistic "patriotic" nutjobs attacking people for the slightest "provocation". Hence the pro-EU libs stopped trying to carry EU flags when they realized they might get their heads caved in by thugs.
And before anyone says "based", I hate the EU as much as anyone, but I don't think we should be rooting for fascistic violence (violence directed at people who have nothing to do with big capital). They can hate libs like us, doesn't mean we should be encouraging them to continue their policing of "traitors" (which, if you were not naive, would realize includes us here on leftypol, if you aren't foolish enough to think they wouldn't direct the same violence against communists, "enemies" of their beloved church among other things.)

>>2269577
Wasn't there an official ban on EU flags on one of the earlier protests, where the Working Group for Security directly told some people who brought an EU flag not to fly it?

>>2269577
If you’re going to bat for the EU, one of the main perpetrators of the second Generalplan Ost, then you have no right to call anyone else “fascist” when you’re supporting a Nazi state

>>2274119
As far as I'm aware not a single student social media account ever singled out EU flags as banned.
>>2274132
>bat for the EU
I neither bat for the EU, nor do I bat for "patriotic" nutjob thugs. Sorry that being a communist is too complicated for you.

So the situation now is that administrations and some professors of various faculties are making plans for either online classes or asynchronous classes (where they don't hold classes and just post studying material online, expecting the students to learn them before exams) to finish classes in time for exams. This is probably illegal, but the government is just going to ignore it if they succeed in pushing it. Also, even if they start now, and work all weekends, it's not really possible to hold all the missed classes before exam time.

This is after the government a few months ago changed the ratio of hours worked on research vs teaching on state universities to be pretty much all in teaching, so they can just not pay academic staff because there's no teaching being done. A few months ago they crushed the teacher strikes and school blockades by not paying teacher salaries, paying them something like $2 for the entire month.

>you are pro-western if you protest pro-EU president which donated 5 mil to hillary clinton in 2016, armed Ukraine and Israel, de facto recognized Kosovo, wants western resource exploitation firms on Serbian soil, calls Macron and Merkel his friends but demonstrators are one who are paid shills
🥪🥪🥪🥪🥪🥪🥪

>>2284985
you are right brother just one more marathon to Brussels and the whole structure of the SNS will self destruct. Also PUMPAJ PUMPAJ

>>2286982
those are just singular groups of students. there are students marching to athos as well. is le studente movemente now monarchofasistic? get a grip. elections are not gonna get called any time soon (vučić won't do it) and there can be millions of things happening in between changing the route of the movement.

>>2286994
the students proved themselves useless and ahve achieved literally nothing since november. i dont give a shit about the movement anymore, because clearly there isnt one

>>2287009
False. Various polls say SNS rating is at the lowest since they took over and also the whole zbor thing, while not much impactful, would have never happened without the student movement.

>>2287009
>ahve achieved literally nothing since november
<6 months of direct democratic organizing in plenums and 3 moths of zbor organizing is a nothingburger
<5 month total university blockade is a nothingburger
<liberated student areas spreading antiimperialist ideas
<anti-colonial sentiment against EU and Rio Tinto building and sabotaging the german war industry
yeah bro total nothingburger things just happen in a vacuum

>>2286982
That is valid critique, students need more resolve and less of that embarrassing shit (biking to Strasbourg, running to Brussels)
It is truly sad how protests are kinda fizzling out, unironically only truly effective protest happened on 3rd November (like first protest of the bunch) when protesters actually did shit (stormed SNS hq in Novi Sad and stormed city hall) but after that they got watered down into whatever this is rn.

>>2287086
Yeah, only way things can go forward without fizzling out is if we force elections and if we do that there are two outcomes
>First outcome: We win, fair and square, Vučić concedes
>Second outcome (more likely): Vučić rigs elections, entire nation rises, he is forced to step down in similar event to 5th October (I just hope we don't get aftermath similar to 5th October albeit, though I don't see it since students are unironically more anti-west than Vučić)

>>2289462
the actions of the first wave of protests were universally condemned and the attackers were labeled provocateurs and agents of the SNS
>>2289465
I have said this many times over the course of 2 months on this thread that the working class truly have been neglected by the protestors. Not even the Zbors (correct me if im wrong) had any actual influence over the events of the protests. Politically, the movement is bankrupt (see that cunt of a pro-israeli professor on hunger strike everyone is freaking out over). Not one truly progressive demand was demanded. We are utterly fucked.

>>2289462
What did the 3rd November protest accomplish? The city hall storming was quite pointless and due to the opposition's reaction to the events, the vibe was that the protests are going to be short, like the ones in December 2023.

>>2289672
Are chuds right? Does nothing ever happen

>>2289724
Nothingeverhappeners are burned out of years where things looked like would happen but then nothing ever happened. Now they don't except anything to happen ever, even when things have just happened.


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