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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1743989081748.png (137.08 KB, 1224x792, 1743938789594.png)

 

>Socially degenerate as the libs, economically out of touch as the Neo-cons
>the literal worst of both worlds
Still, why did libertarianism become strangely popular among various types of popular media figures, like comedians, filmmakers, and actors?


I remember either Yasha Levine or Mark Ames wrote some articles about the history of libertarianism and how the libertarian party was some kind of astrosturf by one of the Koch brothers. I'm too lazy to look for them right now. I don't if they really answer your question

>>2212788
Libertarianism is a meme ideology based on a “after-the-fact” basis where they look backwards in time to a time when the central government was smaller without understanding why centralization was just a natural course of almost any government, and no modern government will ever be ancap(which is what libertarians inevitably turn to since they realize a government runs contrary to their ideas) but abolishing a government is literally impossible so their ideas in practice just end up being regular neoliberalism or neocon shit and so they become black pilled and become fascists. That’s the lolbert political pipeline.

fundamentally they are no different from other anarchists despite some of them shitting their pants over the term anarcho-capitalism, both are just ideologies and both are based on vibes

It appealed to a kind of middle-class white guy who probably wasn't that involved in politics to begin with, so he hears from the Republicans "The Democrats want to take away your guns and raise your taxes" and from the Democrats "The Republicans want to stop you from smoking weed and force you to go to Church" and Libertarianism seemed like a genuine alternative that was the "best of both worlds". It's a very Gen-X sort of vibe I think.

As for the libertarian party itself, I think it ran of the coattails of the War on Terror and the paranoia about the Patriot Act; Ron Paul being a libertarian who opposed the war in Iraq whereas Dems were trying to find some middle ground of "we want the war to be fought better" with John Kerry probably gave the ideology a lot of popularity, in much the same way that Bernie did for "Democratic Socialism".

>>2212851
Another factor were guys who didn't like "social issues." Your average libertarian is not an Evangelical holy roller but the libertarian position about same-sex marriage when Ron Paul was running for president was that "the government should get out of marriage" and make everything into private contracts, which was a position that allowed them to not have to care about it. To some extent they're "right" that marriage is a private contract important to the reproduction / division / inheritence etc. of private property but they don't understand the role of the state in that.

A few months ago someone posted a book of essays from native Americans about communism. The first one was by the guy that voiced Pocahontas's dad in the Disney movie basically saying that Marxism and indians were incompatible because uh marxists like factories which contradicts the spirit of the buffalo or some bullshit. Come to find out he ran for president on the libertarian ticket in the 80s iirc.

>>2212796
I don't like libertarianism at all, but before the 1960s, the term was tied to Jeffersonian democracy, a sort of populist agrarianism. Current libertarianism emerged in the 1960s and 1970s

>>2212788
Libertarianism is one of the purest forms of Yakubianism, second only to Nazism in its cave monkeyness

>>2212888
What year was this report from? Because if it's after the 1960s, it's probably bullshit. Most Native American academics are people deeply ashamed of actual current Native American culture, i.e., it being no different from white or black rural American culture, and so they make up bullshit about how ancient wisdom is still present
On the other hand, the guys like the actor you mentioned, who is really no different from rural American white people, but ones who liberals fetishize, and they are well aware of that and exploit it

>>2212841
True at least for "individualist" anarchism like egoism. The "virtue of selfishness" is just a rephrasing of spooks.

File: 1743998758473.pdf (7.93 MB, 165x255, 1731631559906.pdf)

>>2212951
It looks like it was from the 80s.

>>2212977
AIM literally came out against this guy and also he's a mayo like Warren, I have also read this book and posted it here and didn't learn that this guy was a pariah until much later

>>2212978
Oh, no shit? I read a little about him on the wiki but it seemed ambiguous.

>>2212888
>>2212977
>>2212978
lol. and people still pretend your skin color somehow determines the validity of your arguments

>socially degenerate

based on this image of yours, where is this in:

<not hating gays or letting religion have a monopoly on marriage

<not being a schizo moralist about drugs
<bare minimum level of official tolerance for interpersonal difference

lolbertarian are the lowest hanging fruit imaginable and somehow you find a way to make them sound reasonable in at least some ways

>>2212788
>Still, why did libertarianism become strangely popular among various types of popular media figures, like comedians, filmmakers, and actors?
Ruling class loves low taxes coupled with decadent freedoms. It tells a lot about these ultra-liberals that people dying of hunger or lack of medical care is a non-problem while taxes are the worst human rights violation ever to happen.

>>2212985
It doesn't, but in the context of pretending to be a Native American when you're actually white, it matters

>>2212991
But these guys weren't part of the ruling classes; they were a segment of popular media figures, specifically not the ultra-popular ones like major movie stars or directors, but rather comedians or those working on networks like Comedy Central or Spike TV

>>2212991
>>2212999
>le "ruling classes" vagueness
being a petit-bourgeois means youre still a proper citizen of bourgeois society wholesale lol

>>2212987
I'm talking about their desire to deregulate all drugs and pornography, and to legalize prostitution, issues that real socialist nations have banned and continue to ban

>>2213004
capitalist nations also ban drugs and porn. huh

>>2213006
I'm confused, are you saying drugs, porn and prostitution are somehow good things?

>>2212788
You said degenerate. The jannies are gonna ban you for being a “reactionary”.

>>2213004
"degenerate" suggests that its the acceptance of sexuality and substances thats the issue, instead of their promotion as easy and universally beneficial sources of pleasure that you should be able to buy as commodities whenever you want. you know what the connotations of degenerate is, why use the term?

>>2213059
I guess Hedonist is a better term

>>2213009
it is reactionary. and no i don't care that stalin said it about a gay dude. stop using appeal to authority as a counter argument.

>>2212788
>Socially degenerate as the libs
>the literal worst
ok polyp, fuck off back to your hole moron

>>2213009
and they'd be right

>>2212788
>*gets deported for supporting Palestine*

File: 1744203404313.jpg (103.19 KB, 372x372, leninpost.jpg)

>degenerate
>look inside
<suburbanite obsessions
can't you think about something more important

>>2213009
As they should. Mods = gods.

OP's fash brainworms aside:
>why did libertarianism become strangely popular among various types of popular media figures, like comedians, filmmakers, and actors?
Heritage Foundation contracts.

Libertarianism has appeal to the intellectual rational people of the world. All we want is to fuck our 12 year old child brides without the government or "concerned parents" interfering. Anyone know where I can get some good child porn?

>>2212788
That image is aneurysm inducing. But to be fair I was just about that ignorant in 2008.

>>2216076
You uyghur's have a bad problem of trying to connect unrelated groups that are all opposed to each other, no the heritage foundation does not support an ideology that opposed its morality

>>2212788
>recently supports gay marriage
Lmao

>>2212788
Rich people like it.

>>2212788
>popular media figures, like comedians, filmmakers, and actors?

because they're rich and famous and have LGBT friends so they have no problem with that but they also don't want to pay taxes.

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ITT: Anons answer a question OP already knew the answer to.

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>>2212834
They often associate themselves with the early American Founding Fathers, but I've also seen some claim the Italian city-states as examples of successful libertarianism. Like the argument in this book is democracy's are all bound to fail and inevitably results in Fascism or Military Dictatorship and while Monarchy is slightly better. the best system is 'the natural order' which is anarcho-capitalism

>>2229409
proves how libertarianism is historically regressive
>what if we were just left alone
not in a global economy, bub.

>>2229414
>what if we were just left alone
One local power will eventually develop a Military Dictatorship and just conquer the other regions, as happened with Italy and Germany

>>2229422
naturally, the same way capital will always monopolise through the liquidation of competition. libertarians just cope by saying that amazon couldnt be big without the state. sure, but without the state, amazon just takes territories by force.

>why is an ideology that advocates no restriction either socially or economically popular among rich creatives
Why is shitposting so popular among anonymous edgy young men?

>>2212788
economic libertarianism is self-defeating once one recognizes that actual free markets require a strong state to breakup if not nationalize industries to prevent corporate consolidation and monopolization and subsequent rent seeking. this current strand of libertarianism is the unironic love child of a generation or two of milton-reaganite public relations brainwashing to confuse retards on what capitalism is

>>2229427
They cope with the myth of the gureela. While they aren't the only ones(many Rightists and Leftists are also obsessed with it) but because libertarianism is such a uniquely late 20th-century American pop ideology, they have a uniquely late 20th-century pop understanding of guerilla warfare, the popular conception of Vietnam was/is “guys in the jungle shot at helicopters and laid traps and then they won through gumption and superior spirt” and that idea has kind of poisoned people into thinking guerrilla warfare is much less terrible/difficult/costly than it actually is.

>>2229465
What's funny is that none of these guys are Capitalists or Captains of industry; they're just 'creatives'—writers, comedians and mediocre artists. They have a romantic view of business because they haven't been anywhere near It.

>>2229468

And that it doesn't on the immense might of soviet armament manufacturing.

>>2215005

Hedonism does have inherent degenerative tendencies.

Something is degenerate if it has a tendency to degenerate.

Daily reminder.

>>2213008
no but there's a strong case to make that banning things just creates a black market

>>2229409
“The Natural Order”™️ which also coincidentally has never existed in history lol.

Libertarianian is the only ideology hated by both left, right, and even centre.

>>2212941
>I don't like libertarianism at all, but before the 1960s, the term was tied to Jeffersonian democracy, a sort of populist agrarianism. Current libertarianism emerged in the 1960s and 1970s
Jefferson's "ideal" form of society was a town-sized republic where everyone owns their own plot of land and labors for themselves, and a quilt of these petty republics would spread across the land. And since everyone would own land (well unless they were slaves or indentured servants but *whistles while pretending to ignore them*) then nobody would be beholden to the whims of political rulers, since thanks to private property, the individual can restrict such power. But a lot of the nuance, ambiguity and historical context around that has evaporated with modern-day libertarians treating such founding-era historical figures as more like scriptural figures than historical ones (i.e. the blind veneration of a semi-mythic, purer past before the degenerates showed up to ruin everything).

>>2229468
>economic libertarianism is self-defeating once one recognizes that actual free markets require a strong state to breakup if not nationalize industries to prevent corporate consolidation and monopolization and subsequent rent seeking. this current strand of libertarianism is the unironic love child of a generation or two of milton-reaganite public relations brainwashing to confuse retards on what capitalism is
It's the libertarian's central dilemma. On the one hand they ardently champion capitalism, but on the other they don't actually want to live in modern capitalist society with its large-scale production, complicated infrastructure, and standing armies. The maintenance of roads and things like that are generally unprofitable to operate, so they see that as "socialism." When you ask a typical libertarian to describe their ideal capitalist society, it's an "American Dream" where you either inherit a small business and continue the family tradition, or you work conscientiously for your boss until you too can open up a small business and live in a bucolic suburban community or farmland. They don't really analyze society beyond that restricted vantage point. (Of course you also have libertarians who envision a sci-fi dystopia with themselves as a freakish human/cyborg hybrid ruling over half the globe.)

>democrats
>left
I hate American politics so fucking much

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>>2229468
We see it here as well, the guerrilla myth has always been retarded. However it's not just Vietnam, it’s a mix of misconceptions about Vietnam, the American Revolutionary War and Afghanistan. These conflicts had wildly different circumstances, levels of technology, opponents, and backers.

>The Minutemen lost most of their battles against the British, with the exception of the Deep South, where the Northern Loyalists and British weren’t accustomed to the heat and diseases. Their job was to buy time until a Continental Army could be formed (with aid and training from France). The Continental Army was ultimately the one that won the war.

>In Vietnam, there was an organized state that was being funded and armed by the Soviets and Chinese, which allowed them to mobilize hundreds of thousands of men. South Vietnam on the other hand, was a corrupt mess, with different families and factions in constant open conflict, often outright coup attempts against each other and never ending in-fighting
>In the two Afghan wars, the Soviets won every major battle but still lost the war due to the massive financial problems it caused for their failing economy. Even after that, the Socialist Afghan state lasted three more years without any world aid because they still had a strong functioning state. Then came the American Afghan War, where the US installed a democracy that was never going to work in Afghan society. As soon as they left, it collapsed within a week, compounded by the fact that the Taliban were being helped and funded by a major US ally, Pakistan, that was openly undermining the US

Libertarians have never bothered to do any research on the wars they use as their main political thesis for why they won't end up in tyranny

>>2231240
>everything to the right of Mao is le fascism

>>2230904
Life itself has degenerative tendencies, you know living things are supposed to grow old and die right?


>>2231286
even if you stretch the definition of left wing to include european social democracy the demonkkkkrats can't even institute a basic government run heallthcare service

they are right wing

>>2231216
One of my favorite memes among these zoomer “traditionalists” as they call themselves on the internet are these kids talking about small towns with dudes basically bringing back craftsmanship and that be a viable economic fucking future, in the era of advanced technology and large scale production fucking petty craftsmanship coming back hahaha.

>>2231304
Eh, at least a form of it isn't out of the question, many rural Soviets did have at least a version of this system

>>2229468
>>2231277
Guerrilla warfare is really costly, but I think something like "gumption" and "superior spirit" is really important. What we're really talking about is motivation and determination. It's one of the most important factors in war, if not the most important. In numerous wars, the losing side lost the motivation to fight (if they ever had it). American lost the motivation to keep fighting in Afghanistan, and the Afghan army we were training had no motivation. The Syrian army lost its motivation and collapsed within a week.

The U.S. went into Iraq and Afghanistan with motivation because of the 9/11 attacks. But once we got there, we started to wonder whether our reason for being there had anything to do with 9/11 (we're kind of slow and it takes us time to learn things). This creates problems for motivation of soldiers. Anyways, you have to ask how many of these libertarians are willing to wage an armed struggle for decades in which most of them will be killed in the process. That takes a lot of motivation, and I think that has both subjective and objective factors going into it. The subjective factors include the motivation that comes from within and building of a disciplined army, but also objective factors like extreme oppression, and a large population of young people who are more willing to take risks (and risk their lives) compared to older people.

Another factor in guerrilla warfare is that it's weak vs. the strong. But one thing about fighting weak enemies is that you can come to believe that they're not real enemies. Like in a game where you just dab on children, you lose your motivation. When you fight a weak opponent, you become weak. But when you fight a strong opponent, you can become strong.

>>2231350
I think you're psychoanalyzing this too much. While it's clear that a motivated population is important, it's not always the case. During the American Revolution for example, the majority were ambivalent, yet there were strong supporters of both Loyalists and Patriots. You're also overlooking what a state is capable of doing. The North Vietnamese state was able to mobilize hundreds of thousands, and there was a willing population ready to fight. The issue with the American Afghan state wasn't a lack of motivation; it was that it barely functioned at all. Similarly, Syria and pre-Castro Cuba fell into disarray due to divided factions, where the Army was underpaid and relied completely on external powers rather than investing in a competent military

>>2212978
There's a very weird element in Canadian academia right now where because elite institutions are all declaring themselves systemically racist against FIrst Nations, they will give you quite substantial favouritism to hiring you if you're indigenous. So this means all the people who've got a drop of indigenous blood (which if your family history goes back far enough in Canada, means everyone) comes out of the woodwork. This also means it is the most white-passing people who get the most righteously outraged that people would fake indigenous status (but not them, they're the good guys!)
I remember seeing a CBC article which verged on self-parody with all these (totally not white!) professors denouncing the fakers

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/queens-professor-indigenous-identity-claim-questioned-1.6067594

File: 1745025473755.png (2.47 MB, 1080x1590, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2229409
What about this?

>>2231981
>American old west

read settlers but unironically

>>2231992
No thanks, I'm Pakistani and not a self hating white liberal or a Western non-white neurotic deeply ashamed of being upper middle class

>>2231468

If you also made this post: >>2231277

I think you are really onto something.

I did once make the point that if the US wanted to have a military victory in Vietnam it always had the option of full nuclear annihilation.

However it would be a purely military victory, at the cost of a few nukes and at the very most zero economic, diplomatic, etc. gains.

Fact of the matter is as you say, it could not reliably take on an enemy that had a well trained & disciplined army abd massive economic military assistance from two huge countries with advanced militaries of their own

File: 1745030079820.png (1.26 MB, 800x601, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2232027
>If you also made this post: >>2231277
Yes I did, Regarding Vietnam, the US. actually defeated a comparable and more 'diverse' insurgency during the Philippine-American War. The major difference being the Philippines lacked significant external support, aside from occasional arms provided by Japanese and Chinese radicals. This was nothing compared to the millions of AK's and Armored vehicles supplied to Vietnam. Another fact was the Filipinos were disunited, fighting each other and even in the same party's would have often competing factions against each other, which famously led to the assassination of one of their few competent Generals. In contrast the US did install local governors in the Philippines who were far more competent than the chaotic clownship seen in South Vietnam

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>>2231981
It's important to remember that every claim about a completely "Anarchist society" can be traced back to one guy. Peter Lamborn Wilson, an Anarchist thinker who later converted to Islam. His writings on pirates, particularly the Barbary and Caribbean pirates, is the source of most "historical" claims about how pirates were actually progressives fighting against tyranny. If you've ever heard an anarchist mention Libertatia, the utopian pirate society created to escape the chains of monarchical society and slavery, it originates from Wilson's ideas, which are not based on historical fact. Despite this, Wilson is not obscurem his writings were quite popular within hippie, anarchist and academic circles and many of his ideas are now often accepted as fact in pop-history.

>>2233225
Not sure anyone's taking that guy particularly seriously, he's one of those 90s North American anarchists from AJODA and those types of post-left publications.
I font know if you've noticed but that period of history, seen most explicitly in the USA, is over. Class war is very much back on the menu.

>>2233242
I never said most people actually follow his idea, but he is the source of most "pop-history" about anarchist society's, specifically about pirates

>>2231981
>old west
damn it im mad at this fucking image again
>most crime was in the cities where ALL THE FUCKING PEOPLE WERE
no way!
>most violence was done during the ONGOING GENOCIDE
no way!

>>2212788
>literally the opposite of tankies
>who would have guessed???

>>2233225

Sounds about right.

I've seen it many times where non-ancom anarchists characterize a historical example that is bassically "local militia + tribal council" as statelessness (in the sense of lack of government).

In other words, what ever other political ideology recognizes as defacto informal government, these kinds of anarchists try desperately to characterize as historical validation that what they desire can exist (even its extremely obvious they would hate to live in such kinds of societies and would scream "STATIST" when the tribal council punishes them for for not contributing a portion of the spoils of a hunt or running around naked high on mushrooms in the village center in broad daylight)

>>2233242

One question for you happen to know: Exactly did this particular dude's get zo popularized? What was happening around him that made it so?

>>2233242
>he's one of those 90s North American anarchists from AJODA and those types of post-left publications … most explicitly in the USA
That style of 90s "post-left anarchism" is a weird thing and seems like it has been forgotten. I don't know enough to talk about it except I've read from some people (who seem to know what they're talking about) that some of them would get into weird reactoid stuff, but maybe someone else can do a dive at some point. Also that was happening for a bit due to burnout and disillusionment after the anti-WTO protests but before the Iraq and Afghanistan wars generated the anti-war protest movement.

File: 1745449506289.png (211.63 KB, 269x298, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2212978
Many such cases. Maybe it would be prudent to exercise skepticism of prominent native voices and check to see if they've been outed as a pretendian yet.

>>2231350
Been meaning to watch this.
We should make a /leftypol/ movie list.

>>2239088
There's a whole website dedicated to the subject
https://pretendians.com

Many of the claimants are professional activists and/or academics. The latter were so widespread and unchallenged for decades, even though their claims would quickly be thrown in the trash if anyone bothered to do a little research.

>>2239088
That's pretty easy to tell, it's not even about looks, most indigenous people are just rural people who face similar but more extreme challenges as other poor rural communities in the US, but their people, they wear normal clothes and probably have similar views and insights as other "normies", anyone who ever exaggerates a mystical connection to nature is probably faking it


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