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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1748474356748.png (275.25 KB, 598x711, 1687937743700.png)

 

Previous: >>2280521

Add Wargoal Edition

—————————————————–

Evidence of the influence and origin of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine
https://archive.ph/44B9Q
https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323637
https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323658
https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323663
https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323688
https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323729
https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323733
https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323731
https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323735
https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323740

—————————————————–

ALWAYS APPROACH SOURCES CRITICALLY

Live maps and updates
DeepStateMap: https://deepstatemap.live
Events in Ukraine: https://eventsinukraine.substack.com/
SouthFront: https://southfront.press/category/all-articles/world/europe/ukraine/

Watch Together
📺 News/events: https://tv.leftypol.org/r/HappeningsviaKlash
📺 Hangout/chill: https://tv.leftypol.org/r/bloodcast

Watch By Yourself
>Video Essays / Historical Background
📺 • Ukraine: The Avoidable War - Boy Boy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8

📺 • Ukraine's Nazi Problem - The Marxist Project
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yZvWAwU5W4

📺 • America, Russia, and Ukraine's Far Right - Gravel Institute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0pyVJG7_6Q

📺 • The Nature of Putin's Russia and Its Causes (3-Part Series) - 1Dime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8d6Vzi7zYg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zODWTfMwFGw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zuygh9Mzuo

<Current Happenings
📺 • The Grayzone: https://www.youtube.com/@thegrayzone7996
📺 • DDGeopolitics: https://www.youtube.com/@DDGeopolitics
📺 • Defense Politics Asia: https://www.youtube.com/@DefensePoliticsAsia
📺 • The Duran: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdeMVChrumySxV9N1w0Au-w
📺 • The News Atlas: https://www.youtube.com/c/thenewatlas
📺 • Military Summary: https://www.youtube.com/@militarysummary

—————————————————–

Social media
>Twitter
https://twitter.com/GeromanAT
https://twitter.com/plnewstoday
https://twitter.com/RALee85
https://twitter.com/MarQs__
https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael
https://twitter.com/IntelCrab
https://twitter.com/michaelh992
https://twitter.com/Suriyakmaps

<Telegram
https://t.me/milinfolive
https://t.me/hueviykharkov
https://t.me/conflictzone
https://t.me/vorposte
https://t.me/intelslava
https://t.me/grey_zone
https://t.me/AussieCossack
https://t.me/asbmil
https://t.me/Slavyangrad

🇷🇺🇺🇦🇰🇵
Thread guidelines:
• Please remember to add a spoiler to NSFW and extreme content such as graphic violence and gore.
• Try your best to not derail discussion too much from the main events and relevant places where the war is taken place, as well as other happenings, groups and public figures related to it.
• Meta discussion of the historical, philosophical and ideological background of the war is fine as long as its done in good faith and comradely.
• In the event the meta discussion overstays its welcome, participating users will be referred to take the conversation to the INTERNATIONALISM general thread.
• Quality shitposting and original content is encouraged! Spamming glowie memes is low effort.
• this is /isg/ for people who treat geopolitics like shitty map games.
472 posts and 97 image replies omitted.

File: 1748725094824.jpg (34.02 KB, 666x500, b8 go big or go home.jpg)

>They didn't understand economics because their economy collapsed and no longer exists.
the anti-communist troll, b8ing is getting boring.
even the anti-communist agency like the nobel prize had to acknowledge the incredible intelligence the USSR economists had, for that reason
Leonid Kantorovich
Won a nobel price.

>>2290946
I asked a simple question. It's open to everyone else besides Kampuchea as well.
>>2290936
>INB4 the USSR economy was stronger than ever when Gorbachev took power

Can anyone give any evidence to support this claim?

>>2290940
>I argued that meat consumption is a better measure of personal wealth, because meat is more expsensive than vegetables
Meat is A LABOR SPENT TO PRODUCE COMPARATIVELY SUBPAR PRODUCT. In other words, it's not a symbol of BEING RICH, it's a symbol of WASTING LABOR.

Mud pies do not make you richer. Or, say, if you produce boots two times longer than your competitor, price of your boots will still be the same as your competitor's. Meat per calorie IS INEFFICIENT AS FUCK.

Do you get it now? Do you understand? Answer me, smartass

>How are these two things related in anyway shape or form?
You argued for heating metrics being dead labor - the same way meat is compared to vegetables. And you implied it's not a symbol of being rich

See? Absolute chaos if I don’t cook.

>>2290964
Mommy, what's for dinner tonight

>>2290951
You're the one who made a claim in the first place, moron. Putting >INB4 before the negation of a claim implying that your opposition believes otherwise is still making a claim. You have to provide evidence for your claim, not the other way around.

>>2290958
>You argued for heating metrics being dead labor - the same way meat is compared to vegetables. And you implied it's not a symbol of being rich
Everyone in every country has to eat, not everyone has to cool or heat their house. Are you fucking retarded?

>Meat is A LABOR SPENT TO PRODUCE COMPARATIVELY SUBPAR PRODUCT. In other words, it's not a symbol of BEING RICH, it's a symbol of WASTING LABOR.

>Mud pies do not make you richer. Or, say, if you produce boots two times longer than your competitor, price of your boots will still be the same as your competitor's. Meat per calorie IS INEFFICIENT AS FUCK.

>Do you get it now? Do you understand? Answer me, smartass
So you really think that Albania is the second richest country per capita? You think that they have the second highest standard of living?

>>2290964
>See? Absolute chaos if I don’t cook.
I don't like to use this as the debate the USSR thread, but since everyone else does, and we have no USSR thread, here we are. Why don't you cook us a USSR general so we can stop derailing this one.

>wasting time arguing with someone that has to have ai do their thinking for them

>>2290967
>You're the one who made a claim in the first place, moron. Putting >INB4 before the negation of a claim implying that your opposition believes otherwise is still making a claim. You have to provide evidence for your claim, not the other way around.
Ok, my mistake. I don't know what I'm talking about. So either, you don't know what you're talking about either, or you could prove that the INB4 is actually correct.

>>2290970
I haven't used AI once. The guy who started the conversation about Italy's GDP at the time of the fall of the USSR is a different anon.

>>2290968
>Why don't you cook us a USSR general so we can stop derailing this one.
I'm serious. Unless you guys all want me to cook it.

File: 1748725827975.png (269.49 KB, 799x799, BillionsMustWork.png)

>>2290968
>Everyone in every country has to eat, not everyone has to cool or heat their house.
1) not every country has to eat meat. You are just grasping at straws here
2) not cooling or heating averages out anyway by warmer countries being able to use labor not spent on heating for something else. You wouldn't want to penalize hong kong in GDP metrics for not needing to heat houses as much as, say, Russia, do you now?

>So you really think that Albania is the second richest country per capita?

You haven't disproven this, lmao. You used a hilarious argument of "but it's evidently not so!"

>>2290971
that's literally not how burden of proof works

>>2290951
>I asked a simple question.
no, you didn't. you have asserted that the USSR fell because
a) they didn't understand about economics. See Leonid Kantorovich, for example..
b) they ruined their economy because of a).
without one single piece of evidence.
who's educating and teaching you about these "facts"? a westner-financed institution? a liberal writer? a chvd youtube?
bring it on.

File: 1748726163710.png (4.6 KB, 225x225, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2290979
You already won Kampuchea, now that you won, why don't you tell me the correct answer and misspell my misconceptions.

Maybe there is someone else reading this conversation with the same misconception or hasn't made up their mind either way. Since you're the expert, why not educate us?

File: 1748726224566.mp4 (3.38 MB, 1152x720, arrestovich_interview.mp4)


File: 1748726282944.png (343.68 KB, 1453x1803, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2290976
>You haven't disproven this, lmao. You used a hilarious argument of "but it's evidently not so!"
>>2290976
>1) not every country has to eat meat. You are just grasping at straws here
No one has to eat meat, but everyone has to eat food. A country could be starving and still have no need for air-conditioning and heating. Once again I have completely lost the point about why you are trying to draw a parallel when there is no parallel.
>2) not cooling or heating averages out anyway by warmer countries being able to use labor not spent on heating for something else. You wouldn't want to penalize hong kong in GDP metrics for not needing to heat houses as much as, say, Russia, do you now?
Which is why I said that personal electricity consumption is a useless measurement to find personal household wealth.

>You haven't disproven this, lmao. You used a hilarious argument of "but it's evidently not so!"
We could look at other consumption factors.

But you've derailed the whole discussion since originally we were talking about sizes of economy instead of living standards. Anyways since we're talking about healthy eating and whatever. I think the best way to devise living standards would be life expectancy wouldn't you say? This would encompass quality of diet, leisure/exercise time, healthcare, etc. and is the final output of all those factors.

Interesting that Hong Kong has the number 1 life expectancy and is also the number 1 consumer of meat. Seems kind of anti-vegan(not with your efficiency argument before you start going off on that, but in terms of health impact.)

File: 1748726342511.gif (1.48 MB, 338x220, ironic-star-wars.gif)

>>2290983
>misspell
*Dispel fucking autocorrect.

hong kong is a shithole

>>2290844
>I'm still waiting for you to devise or find a better metric.
many products metrics help too, in many different contrasts. sticking only with the GDP, GDP PPP or GDP PPP PC is moronic. All soviet descriptive economic books I remember I have seen they loved to take products after products, goods after goods, in long tables positioning the US and USSR there, so everyone could take a glance on production.
Almost everywhere, and I can show some of these books, the USSR was top 1 position.

>>2290991
hong kongers aren't the nicest people

>>2290994
hong kongers got beaten so badly by british colonial policing they got stockholm syndrome

>>2290992
>Almost everywhere, and I can show some of these books, the USSR was top 1 position.
Please do, I would walk away better informed.

Also why don't you guys compile me a list of links and books to put in this /USSR/ general since none of you will bake it. I'll do it, but it might be better if one of you USSR experts do it, but if you won't, give me the links you want in it at least.

>>2290983
i fucked your mom, i have absolutely no proof to back it up but unless you have any proof to the contrary your mom remains fucked by me because i said so.

>>2291002
>i fucked your mom, i have absolutely no proof to back it up but unless you have any proof to the contrary your mom remains fucked by me because i said so.
But she died a long time ago anon. How old are you?

>>2290987
GDP is supposed to represent economic output, and economic output - quality of life. This doesn't happen

Meat (or rather it's inefficiency comparative) and heating represent economic output

You are saying this yourself:
<But you've derailed the whole discussion since originally we were talking about sizes of economy instead of living standards

So, you won't be able to wriggle yourself out of this

>A country could be starving and still have no need for air-conditioning and heating.

And that same country could be using labor otherwise spent on heating for something else. Therefore, heating is valid, unlike meat (compared to other foods)

>Anyways since we're talking about healthy eating and whatever.

It's not healthy eating, it's calorie efficiency. But we can talk about heathy eating, sure, and gawk at how much labor Americans are wasting to cure diseases that stem from unhealthy diets

some bridge in Bryansk Oblast has been sabotaged and collapsed if any of you are interested in the war

>>2291006
>GDP is supposed to represent economic output, and economic output - quality of life. This doesn't happen
>You are saying this yourself:
Anon how can you not understand the concept that an economy can be small, and have a high standard of living, and an economy can be large, and have a low standard of living? How is this so hard to understand?

I'm not going to reply to the rest since you're just trying to make this an argument about the merits of veganism when that had nothing to do with anything.

>>2291007
We all know that’s a cope bridge, they’ll never topple the bridge they actually have carrying traffic toll free into their heads

Do you guys really want me to make this /USSR/ general unassisted? Should I just fill it with Brookings Institution and whatever sources?

>>2291016
Implying it’s the USSR part and not the derailing /ukr/ part that draws the crowds lel

>>2291010
Is it a moral thing to you or something? Do you really think that one has to be a vegan to recognize that meat is inefficient?

>haha i'm smart I know the difference between QOL and economics!

Well then, what about heating? Evidently, you don't understand economics and use QOL instead of economics - in case of energy consumption

>>2291020
Well maybe there wouldn't be crowds, but it would help not derail this thread and I'm interested in learning about the USSR. It seems every time someone says something negative about it, you all have a whole lot to say, but otherwise it's not really talked about. Since it's such a big part of communism, it would be good to have a general. We could put all the various Stalin, Kruschev, etc. debates in one thread and also a place to learn anything else interesting, not necessarily debate, in one place. Maybe we wouldn't have this debate because I would've already have read this info I'm asking for that Kampuchea and no one else will produce, and then I wouldn't have made false claims ITT in the first place.

>>2291026
USSR BAD is a surprisingly common opinion on Leftypol (or it just has a couple of very vocal anti-MList anons) and such a thread will attract those anons to come and derail that thread if the conversation isn’t exclusively about how history should have shone on Trotsky or Bordiga instead

>>2291025
>Is it a moral thing to you or something? Do you really think that one has to be a vegan to recognize that meat is inefficient?
How is effiency related to the debate at all?
>Well then, what about heating? Evidently, you don't understand economics and use QOL instead of economics - in case of energy consumption
What does that even mean.

>Original topic
Overall size of economies, not quality of living, personal wealth, household spending, anything per capita. Per capita questions are completely unrelated to measuring the size of economies.
>First derail: Per capita
We derailed to per capita, and then you put forth that: More vegetable you eat, richer you are per capita. Which we already covered back and forth. It's not a good measurement of household wealth, overall living standards, anything.
<The electricity consumption
Is also not a good indicator of personal wealth because it is dictated by the climate, and energy sources for the main expenditure being heating in many climates. They may spend the same amount of energy from localized consumption from gas or instead of at a centralized gas power plant.
Anyways they are both wrong measures of Per Capita spending and wealth and anything. That is the only parallel between them is that they are both bad measures of that.
>Third derail:
Grains are the most efficient way of getting calories, not the most nutritious, but the most efficient. If you are just trying to talk about what method is the most efficient and cheapest way to provide more calories to more people, it's grains.

Your fucking vegetable argument was dumb from all fucking sides and was a derail of a derail of a derail. Jesus Christ.

>>2291004
I traveled back in time to fuck your mom. Now prove that I haven't fucked your mom AND that I don't have the means to travel back in time.

>>2291001
https://annas-archive.org/md5/924d24d8da9fd0a98b1fdbd694fb099d
https://annas-archive.org/md5/8c926de2c0b591d8be344071e847832d
https://annas-archive.org/md5/e22ae77455ab7c06fffc335047419097
https://annas-archive.org/md5/0a7400037560db3783e41300b6c6e7fa
These are some lose USSR national economy reports, dating some in the 50s, one in the 60s, and one in 90s.
you have also the
>Economic history of the world.
https://annas-archive.org/md5/c9623fd3528e85a8727623fe2da71623
https://annas-archive.org/md5/55d0256c0254df8a08d43b5add62e586
https://annas-archive.org/md5/5e0ca7ffb29b09938b5984e52e54e336
https://annas-archive.org/md5/2e232dd2193bad610c498eb4ade278b4
https://annas-archive.org/md5/95fb90590a66ef21967d35d213b41f2b
In the complete 5 tomes.

I haven't reviewed these thoroughly, but they were in my collection of economics of the USSR. if they are like some old books I had from my grandparents, now long gone, they must have that information.

File: 1748728590274.png (49.2 KB, 225x225, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2291051
Damn, now you've defeated me in two arguments. I was wrong about the USSR and I was wrong about your sexual activities with my mother. I'd ask you if you could provide the sources I was originally asking you for but this anon has done your work for you:
>>2291051

Protecting Russians status?

>>2291054
Couple things, I can't read Russian. So that was one of the reasons I wanted Kampuchea anon to provide this information he read. Second, is this going to prove that the Russian economy was in good shape before Gorbachev took power?

I'm honestly asking for any source. Preferably in English, but since you guys can speak Russian, you can find me sources available in Russian only and point me to the part that proves this.

I'll re-open the question to Kampuchea anon. Kampuchea, before you start sperging about fucking my mom:
>We are no longer debating
Now I am simply asking:
>I've heard some people say that the USSR's economy was in great health before Gorbachev took power, is there any reliable source I can read that would verify this?

See I took no positions Kampuchea. It's not a debate. No burden of proof is on me. I'm asking you a simple question.

https://x.com/RWApodcast/status/1928511270048731399

>CopeState map updates. "Grey zone" in their parlance can mean anything from actually grey zone (i.e., not really under anyone's control) to 100% secured by Russian forces.

>Sumy oblast is turning into a shaping theater. Kiev has already siphoned off two of its better mobile units, the 82nd Air Assault and the 36th Marines, to plug the hole at Konstantinovka. The 47th is busy doing suicide attacks into Tetkino. Not sure where the 80th and 95th Air Assault brigades are; most likely re‑equipping in the rear or being redeployed someplace.

>Threatening enemy defensive lines around Hoten' ("Хотiнь" on the map) would be good. We have the 76th VDV in the area, a unit that is capable of the kind of violent, tempo‑driven manoeuvres that really hurt. If that spear even looks as though it might pierce the village, the AFU's reserve strategy will be severely strained and they'll have to shuffle in units earlier than they're ready and in a place they didn't expect.

>A credible threat to the city of Sumy itself could theoretically lock Ukrainian reserve assets in that part of the front just as the broader front begins to soften elsewhere. This will certainly be one of the potential goals of the Russian army, depending on how it goes, as it could potentially enable breakthroughs further south.

>>2291070
copemap can hardly be called coping anymore
even with all the gray areas they add, it makes for poor reading if you believe in ukrainian victory

Sumy is clearly the next big target.

File: 1748729292815-0.png (941.79 KB, 738x984, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1748729292815-1.png (997.92 KB, 576x1280, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2291007
>In Russia’s Bryansk region, terrorists have blown up a railway bridge just as a train was crossing. The train was en route from Moscow when the explosion occurred

>>2290985
Wow I wonder how he knew

File: 1748729463635.mp4 (163.39 KB, 1280x640, SaveTwitter.Net_iYnOdqwvZA….mp4)

>>2291070

>>2291087
one day

>>2291068
Tbh mate, I doubt any source exists out there to confirm or deny that the Soviet economy was good during the 1970s in the lead up to Perestroika, because the situation was ultimately down to oil suddenly not being a stable and therefore endlessly dependable commodity for trade as it had been prior, a revelation that affected the entire globe with the invariable kneejerk reaction was that collectivisation or nationalisation (depending on what side of the wall you were on) was something that needed to be funded, it was funded by oil, now oil isn’t totally dependable, all of the welfare and subsidies are unfunded and have to go.

Anyone looking for an argument about how Perestroika was made necessary by the Soviet economy in the 1970s are just looking for ideological differences to what happened in socdem nations in the 1970s, but there aren’t any, it was a global trade crisis that reactionaries made convincing but false arguments for scrapping the concept of society and retvrning to every-man-for-himself with the “entrepreneurs” making off like bandits buying up the subsidised shit to “privatise” and set a “market price” that was far more unrealistic than the subsidised costs they claimed were and causing the problem.

>>2291105
A planned economy always has trouble growing beyond a certain point, because it requires inputs obtainable only through trade, primarily with the West, where the US dollar dominates.

So you need foreign currency reserves through export of commodities or cash crops (leftcoms triggered). Hydrocarbons are an obvious choice. That's what Khrushchev's obsession with corn was about, as well as the Aral Sea being siphoned into cotton. This is how ML's pragmatism gives rise to market reformists like Deng.

>>2289777
o7
death to all bourgeois meat catchers


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