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>>2280521Add Wargoal Edition
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Evidence of the influence and origin of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine
https://archive.ph/44B9Qhttps://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323637https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323658https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323663https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323688https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323729https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323733https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323731https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323735https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323740—————————————————–
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>Video Essays / Historical Background📺 • Ukraine: The Avoidable War - Boy Boy
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Friedrich Merz's granddaddy.
>After the National Socialist seizure of power, he spoke “of a force that guides us,” invokes “the will that unites us” and of Hitler as a “leader who calls us, forgetting yesterday’s hatred of party hatred.” On the 1st In May 1933 he gave a speech on Hitler.[ 4] He stepped on 1. July 1933[[5] the SA of the reserve and was promoted to Oberscharführer in 1935. He was a member of the Nazi comforter's journey, the Nazi Reich Warrior League and the Nazi Right-Legal Association. After the family, Sauvigny joined the Nazi militia in order not to have to join the NSDAP, which the Nazi rulers were expecting by political officials.NSDAP[6] During his tenure, he had two streets renamed “ Adolf-Hitler-Straße” and “Hermann-Göring-Straße”.[[7] In 1937, he was retired from the office of mayor.[8] According to the family, this was done because of differences with Nazi rulers of power, which cannot be confirmed independently due to lack of sources. In this regard, Friedrich Merz refers to an article by the Nazi sheet Der Stürmer, in which Josef Paul Sauvigny was described as a "Jewish mayor".[ 9] On the other hand, the “Sauerländer Zeitung” wrote on the 2nd edition of the “Sauerländer Zeitung” July 1937: "He always administered his office in the National Socialist spirit".
>>2287410>what exactly is taking Kiev supposed to accomplish vis a vis ending the conflict any faster?training effective soldiers takes time. at the rate their loses are going, they need to send unprepared men to die, and hold something, and fulfill the attrition PR the west wants.
now the ukkies attrition reached to a unsustainable level they need a pause for one hand.
>but I don't get what the supposed benefit is supposed to be of opening a "Kiev front" since under the existing circumstances Russia is turning Ukrainians into corpses at a rate of ~20:1who's opening the front? Russia? The information I am seeing is that they want to create a large buffer zone in the north. but it could be just some negotiation chip, until the threats aren't just threats, similar to 2014 statement
I could reach Warsav in two weeks.
>>2287548Garland Nixon does the best in connecting alt media to Marxism
Diesen, Mercouris, and Sachs interact with Marxists through this crisis and their media coverage of it. Mercouris likes Vijay Prashad and has some views about the West I've not seen him share elsewhere, such as northwest Europe being the most warmongering place on earth that irrationally hates China and Trump being a retard that believes in white genocide in south Africa but not Palestine
>>2287640It's shit westsplaining in favour of Ukraine.
It doesn't mention how Ukraine has violated Belovezha accords, was breaking agreements about joint control over weaponry and certain productions ala what Russia has with Belarus even today, how Russia was DE JURE AND DE FACTO owner of "Ukrainian" nuclear stockpiles, and how Ukraine was begging USA and others to intervene in order to seize RUSSIAN NUKES (then located in Ukraine). All of this was signed BY UKRAINE herself in Belovezha Accords, and then Ukraine has RENEGED on the deal - specifically, by trying to privatize nukes. They tried to pull the same shit in regards to Russian Black Sea fleet, btw
>>2287695All kinds of agreements made during the illegal break up of the USSR ought to be considered null and void anyway in any practical sense, not just because the breakup was illegal, but everything from borders to nooks were arranged based on expediency rather than long term stability. The nationalists who had seized power during a crisis of their own making, surely knew they only had a short amount of time to exploit the crisis before Soviet/Communist loyalists regained control and stability, to rush out an irreversible end to Soviet political structures.
Because it is madness, for example, to just say both the USSR was bad and rogue and illegitimate BUT ALSO any internal borders drawn up over the 70 years it existed will be accepted as the borders of nations that succeed historic nations that had different borders prior to the USSR and often prior to the Russian Empire, that was always going to cause problems because it is so easy to claim that it’s bullshit that this or that region was inherited by such and such state when Lenin was le ebil dictator who carved up the land to maek us nationalists cry ;__;
Any kind of “safe” dissolution of the USSR would have taken decades, but it took months to discover that the plans of Nationalists was
>Just let the US teach us how to run thingsand people already saw the flaws in handing over the largest military and second largest economy over to people that ill prepared and ill equipped for governance, but then tanks get fired at political buildings, presidential powers get massively heightened and literally any piece of shit that ends the USSR *today* got signed.
>>2287759it is the white people's version of We Wiz Kangzz
The Ukrainians hate their relative 'backwardness' compared to Western Europe desperately want to be aryan ubermenschen
Do not forget that Ukrainians and Russians have been peasants for signifiacntly longer than germans, French etc
They have been looked down as 'asiatic hordes' by the west historically etc
So I guess that creates self-hate and creates delusions of re-writing their history as a 'master race'
>>2287759I notice it's something like an intersection of lack of Ukrainian statehood or independence traditions which meant it was worst hit by the rise of fascism in the east, EU/NATO expansion based on interwar nation state restoration, and a crisis of capitalism and a weak state in Ukraine
The fascists provide a connection to Europe, statehood and independence traditions, and an answer to Ukrainian decay
>>2287803I think it’s a difference of attitude between the Russian public and the EU public, the concept that Russia is under attack from NATO is one that’s already understood in Russia and thus Taurus missiles being fired at Moscow, shot down or not, is just as to be expected from NATO and I guess people are “placated” by the fact that Russia isn’t losing.
On the other hand, citizens of NATO nations are certain they live in a safe haven where nothing can touch them, that all of this bollocks with proxies and technicalities means that they can get away with anything, if Russia were to attack Berlin with even a single conventional missile in a random field somewhere as a warning shot, it would honestly trigger incredible amounts of panic amongst the populace across all of NATO and that’s the kicker.
An entirely impotent attack on some random field in Germany would be amplified by civilians assuming (nay, expecting) that’s it, NATO will go balls to the wall in retaliation, and start looting and rioting and shit in the belief they probably have an hour left to live and try to protect themselves. That creates an unpredictable situation and that’s not desirable for Russia while they’re still winning, even despite NATO seemingly wanting to put their toes over red lines again.
>>2287824>>2287825 (me)
I'll add that in the end, it's immaterial why Germany will consider the Russian noise an empty threat. It makes no difference whether Germany considers it an empty threat because it sees Putin as the notorious giga cuck who's scared of his own shadow or because it knows that Putin is smart and calculating and doesn't want to, as you say, let NATO blow a retaliatory strike out of proportion. The effect is the same: the threat is empty, so no point fighting over why the threat is empty.
>>2287882Sounds like something Russia would do because it's running low on nuclear credibility, tbh.
>look what we can doYah… but you won't.
>>2287882>No one in NATO believes Cucktin will launch the nukes because they've already mapped out all the locationslol
how is cucktin not dead yet the incompetence is astounding
it's like letting borat run a country
zero credibility
>>2287905 (me)
Recall as well that Cucktin has claimed that multiple Oreshniks are as destructive as (presumably tactical) nuclear weapons. Yet there's even a long walk there between firing an Oreshnik at a beat-up industrial site overnight with warning to all the Western partners and, say, firing on Bankova.
>>2287918I’ve looked around and I believe the poster got the text from pravda, but otherwise I can see other reports around that suggest the documents were “leaked” by being attachments to public tenders.
>Despite efforts to restrict internal access to sensitive files, Danwatch and Der Spiegel found that military procurement officers continued to attach classified materials to public tenders as late as mid-2024.Which sounds like a contradiction, like they desperately did not want these documents to get out but woops they were attached to public tenders by military procurement officials.
>>2288069Doubtful, that stuff wouldn't stay on Steam but then anything that puts Russia in a less than horrible light wouldn't either, I think. But I haven't kept with video games.
Anyway, would it have a "press R to rape" mechanic?
>>2288077In all honesty it will be some emotive shit like
>every step Russian soldiers take on Ukrainian land is rape!than a serious claim that you can literally rape NPCs, assuming it’s not just a flat out lie because they just want a mob and no one is going to fact check them anyway nor would they consider it okay to play even if there’s actually nothing controversial about the gameplay at all.
Essentially the fellas have reached their “DOOM trains kids to shoot up schools!” phase, the disgruntled Christian boomer mum phase
A review from SlipShady:
Слава Україні Героям слава !
> This game depicts a romantised version of "good ruZZian soldiers" while the reality is they rape, torture, kill, and not necessarily in that order, children, women and elderly people. They behead purposefully ukrainian soldiers on the battlefield, they murder them after they surrendered and use any vile tactic that is against international rules of war.
>Heck they even beat and kill their own soldiers if they don't advance or don't want to fight.
>How do I know may you ask ? I've been several times in Ukraine during the war, and they tried to kill me, a civilian that brought generators, clothes, sleeping bags, food and all sorts of stuff to eastern Ukraine for people. The bullets they shot at me got less than 15 cms from my head. They didn't think twice, they just shot. This is the reality.
>And I'll add this game violates sanctions in the EU it shouldn't even be on steam.
>Go on your way, they are way better games than this. Also heard it's a bad rip off of another game, Door Kickers.
>>2288115> I've been several times in Ukraine during the war, and they tried to kill me, a civilian that brought generators, clothes, sleeping bags, food and all sorts of stuff to eastern Ukraine for people."for people" doing a lot of heavy lifting for the rest of this sentence lol
he was likely delivering aid to ukrainian soldiers
>>2288133>>2288133sounds like MEMRI TV for Russia. May produce some good memes at least
*shrug*
>>2288173>classic Soviet style subversion attempt at Western audiencesAh yes, I remember those! Soviets spending insurmountable amounts of money on fake cities just to fool westerners into believing that Soviets aren't living like shit, only for westerners to pick those propaganda attempts apart and not being persuaded by it at all!
Belief that potemkin villages exist is the biggest psyop that Westoids have managed to pull over themselves
>>2288200nta but I agree.
And I'd like to add that this was also the time where the NATO psyops around Bucha and a bunch of civilian massacres were piling up along, I shit you not, insinuations that the RF was outright committing a genocide ("filtration camps", the gorillion dead of Mariupol and so on)
Basically, from the Bojo visit, the NATO propaganda set themselves to building the case as to why Ukraine had to fight to the last. And this also branched in declaring their own perfidious acts around the negotiation process as a major victory when Russia had to withdraw to actually fight the ground war that NATO wanted.
>>2287926Nah, Russian secrecy protocols are stupid like this - you can eyeball military size through military procurements. Furthermore, you can just like see how much open job offerings are there from the military procurement office, same for tenders
>>2288211A public offer for a contract. State says what it wants, and then organizations of all kinds compete for the contract
TiNKlS effortposts with
>Let me say right away — when I first learned about this game, my chest literally tightened with anger. This “game” has nothing to do with normal entertainment or art — it’s nothing but soulless propaganda, constantly trying to shove just one “correct” idea into your head.
>This whole game is not a concise story about war, but a heartless propaganda machine that tries to grab your attention and subconsciously impose a single “correct” image. From the very first minutes, it tries to fix the idea in your mind that all likeness between people is based only on the color of their uniforms: you defend the “us,” and the “others” are targets for elimination. There’s no room for human doubts or empathy — only “pure,” one-sided writing that escalates violence and turns a complex tragedy into an adventure attraction.
>The title “ZOV” and the whole atmosphere bang into your head about a “sacred” mission where there is only one truth and it’s not up for discussion. The short text inserts contain no hint of doubt about their righteousness — only the established premise of who is “good” and who is “bad.” This is not about reality; it’s about a fixed scheme: don’t hesitate — shoot!
>Slogans, calls, stereotypes — everything in this product is laid out plainly so you understand it without extra thinking. Every piece allows only one interpretation: the aggressor is portrayed as the bearer of “holy truth,” and the real defenders are shown as faceless enemies, almost like a mass of “evil” undeserving of much attention. Under this flood of slogans, your critical thinking flickers out like a tiny candle in the propaganda wind.
>Behind all this lies a practical tool — to change the perception of the conflict, to make war an appealing show, and to impose a specific ideological narrative. This is no longer art or entertainment but a system of informational warfare where the game itself is just a facade for promoting political goals and shaping compliant attitudes.
>If you still believe this is just a “game,” ask yourself: why is there no complexity, why are there no doubts or discussions, why are all the “ours” flawless heroes and the “others” only enemies? Before you consume another sort of this piece of crap, remember: if propaganda makes you happy, maybe it has already won in your mind. Think about whether you need this fake “heroism.”
Something we can all learn from there by Polish-Belarusian TiNKlS, member of the Azov International steam group.
>>2288239it doesn't, it's literally just a turn-based tactics game like Jagged Alliance set in Ukraine, all that shit about killing and raping civilians is just ukros and nafos hyperventilating and making shit up because russians dared to make a video game
also ironically from what i've seen it's pretty mediocre, looks like it was made in 2002 and would go completely unnoticed by anyone but a handful of russian fans if there was no reddit moral crusade against it
>>2288284Nazis of old have stained black-white-red, and Nazis of today will stain blue-and-yellow
Nazis of tomorrow will be green, purple and orange
>>2288313>chasteIt becomes a form of privilege of the church and the rich though, even though they aren't really chaste. Most conservatives are pro-natalist in a patriarchal but class way as well anti contraception, with abortion being part of it. They think the workers ought to be forced to reproduce in a literal sense.
I was pointing out that it isn't actually hypocritical when closeted or depraved reactionaries indulge themselves in what they forbid for others. It is the privilege they have earned. It's just that most of the time they don't get to impose those norms outside of their own circles in the core.
And so it becomes a feedback loop of, for example, experiencing the privilege of being homosexual among the most vicious homophobes and being jealous or angry of all the gay outside their influence which devalue one's own status.
>>2288509Such a shame that Nazis had invaded Denmark and Norway, and USSR had seized Finland's access to Arctic Sea, making it impossible for "coalition of the willing" from participating in Finnish war.
Only Sweden was participating. A very neutral country, right?
>>2288284>is blue and yellow the color of modern fascism? grim>>2288287>Nazis of old have stained black-white-red, and Nazis of today will stain blue-and-yellowBeside red and black, blue has always been kinda fashy color, especially combined with black. Blue has for a long time been the color of the right and conservatism and it still has much less stigma. Even the nazis used the cornflower as a kinda of hidden symbol when they were still an undergrounder movement.
Many 1930s European far-right movements used blue and black in their imagery, sometimes with blue and white. Even the nsdap party flag is just a propaganda tool and symbolic of siege mentality and what they are against not what they are for. White circle with swastika symbolizing the Aryan race and the party surrounded by red that represents the outside threat and It's also partly because red made them seem dynamic, hip and cool and forward thinking in the 30s and to steal votes from the socialists. Now it's just associated with far right thinking because the nazis are 90% of the discussion of historical far right and their symbolism and the rest are Italian fascist party. The future neo-nazis of other countries also just larped these two because they were the most notorious. Also because all the rinky dink other smaller European far right parties parties and eastern-european nazi collaborationists were conveniently forgotten and in the east were just painted as victims of first german aggression and then soviet takeover during the cold-war.
>>2288799I don't think I follow. How is that objective being abandoned if Europe is gearing up to take the place of Ukraine? Or do you mean that they're simply reconciling with the fact that in the event of Ukraine's failure, there
will be a Euro front?
>>2288811which means fucking nothing: russia is too poor, too technologically backward and not numerous enough to be a challenge. it's losing the equpiment made with the effort of whole eastern block, once that's gone what's it go? sure, it could go on a spending spree in china but if chinese are made to chose between civilised countries and russia it will never chose russia simply because it can't compare marketwise. even when talking about sheer numbers russia maybe could rush a latvia where a fouth of the inhabitants already are a fifth column but good luck holding it.
eastern front just isn't feasible.
>>2288836Poland already had large military forces and has been developing them further. Russian logistics would have to cross recently conquered Ukraine and so considerable effort would need to be use for route security. As I said the Russians could easily sweep up the Baltics but Poland alone would be a bigger challenge then the Ukraine.
And yes the Poles and Western European population would resist. The ambivalence has only been in former communist states whose national myth isn’t based around oppression by the Russians.
>>2288890Go to Chile, it's relatively nice for south america and you can get lots of foods for dirt cheap in some specific markets that idk how to describe but that its impossible not to run into.
I'm sorry about your friend. I'd freak the fuck out if a friend of mine got killed. This whole shit is so ass.
>>2288890>I want to leave this fucking placeThere is a way for you to leave, faggot.
KILL YOURSELF. If you're really that much of a self-hating cuck, then you will never be happy even if you leave. You can't escape from yourself. Just end it now and save us (and everyone else)your endless fucking whining and impotent cuck rage. Nobody cares. Get into the noose NOW
>>2288918Here is my vibes based "analysis" for you to suffer through.
The EU is run by a longstanding caste of atlanticist plants who need to balance the interests of the big bourgeoisie against the interests of their atlanticist masters whose orders are to enact the conditions for another Marshall Plan. This is done by doubling down on neoliberalism increasing the profits against propping up the USA-s economy and subsidizing USA's cold war.
But as a result the workers have been shunted completely out of the question. No more concessions are coming. It is a path straight to fascism. And for that the EU has been rehabilitating the old Euro fascists into mainstream politics, giving them the only license to pose as populists and diverge from the official narratives which everyone is already cynical about. This is done to leave no space for the left. The only acceptable left is that which tails the liberals and accepts the primary contradiction is NATO's mission as an arm of the US(or lately the EU version of TDS which amounts to the same). And everything else, even the most opportunistic liberal minded "left" is free to be attacked by both the fascists and the atlanticist liberals.
It makes sense for Russia to back rightwingers, which are already set up domestically as opportunists, because there is little to no opposition from the left. It-s the right wing which is allowed entryism, and they are retards to a man and mercenary.
>>2288925 (me)
I know you mean this for Trump, by the way, but this applies to him and to the rightwingers in Europe all the same. I don't think there is any ideological component criteria to financing foreign subversion beyond what may be necessary for PR.
>>2288890I told you man. I fuckin' told you. Once the meatgrinder is set up there was no hope of anything but slaughter mediated trade wars.
The RF could have forced NATO to get involved very early on, and possibly, hopefully something would go very wrong and the nukes would be launched. It would have only taken a single one of those big missile waves early on to make a civilian government in ,Ukraine in the open, an impossibility. But instead they show the sort of class solidarity that keeps the killing mostly to workers. And LARP it up with the great patriotic war bullshit.
I only have the hope that, by the end of this, we get to see some figureheads thrown under the bus. Insert Kissinger quote.
>>2288918putin doesn't support trump. he was open to giving him a chance because he was making some de-escalatory noises.
Trump is no more nazi than biden except maybe in domestic social policy terms, which is irrelevant to Russia.
Unfortantly the western lib left/center seems completely fixated on hating Russia and talking like they want any and all escalation. The western right is the only one that to some extent has been saying maybe this isn't a good idea and we can try coming to some kind of terms. And meanwhile the actual left in the west is marginalized and irrelevant, or it just goes along with the libs.
So if you're Russia, who seems like the lesser evil here?
>>2288918Hes anti-nazi domestically
for historical propaganda reasons and pro-nazi in foreign policy
to cause maximum damage to western countries.
>>2288968yeah and I have cards from your mother saying how much she loves me and how big of a loser you are
100% legit, I can post 3 pics to prove it
>>2288968>>Svetlana, who always gives everyone. We will always remember your motherly love, warm love that will go down in history of friendship roro(?)>>Dear Vera Vasilievna! You have always shown us warm love with your cheerful character and pleasant mood. Thanks to which we are all recovered and ready to get back in line. Although we will part ways, our Friendship will forever continue and be recorded in the annals of Korean-Russian Friendship.This kind of stuff seems pretty common in DPRK society, 'the love of a mother' also seems like a common term of endearment.
The men of DPRK are some of the only healthy men on the planet, able to express their emotions freely, you would never see soldiers or working class men being able to be so sincere under capitalist society.
>>2289058All good points except perhaps for the closing one. Russian policy has treated Zelensky as untouchable, and I've seen no reason whatsoever for believing there'll be a change.
I don't even see any tangible signs of NATO fatigue or domestic fatigue with Zelensky.
The fucking snake keeps getting his way.
>>2289066>What does Cucktin's strategic alliance with Iran mean in concrete terms? Iran manufactures drones for Russia.
Russia will veto UN resolutions and sanctions on Iran.
Russia will stay neutral when Israel finally decides to finish the job and invade Iran.
>>2289088Media in the west and Ukraine made him the hero of the war, anything signed by him in a surrender is far harder for random factions in Ukraine to claim is illegitimate. If they bumped off Zelensky and his (almost certainly unelected) successor signed the same surrender, then factions could say they don’t recognise the surrender.
But tbh, I’ll be surprised if Ukraine doesn’t immediately break out into civil war again as soon as Kiev accepts defeat with Russia anyway, with Zelensky’s surrender being declared illegitimate because he
didn’t hold elections is a Jew, let’s face it based on cachet this war has given to the already pretty popular Azov faction and other neo-nazi elements.
>>2289337You may not like it, but this is what true internationalism looks like.
(Ukro comments are just what you'd expect)
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/all-europe-range-oreshnik-belarus-2025All of Europe Within Range: New Oreshnik Ballistic Missiles Will Be Deployed in Belarus in 2025
>Secretary of the Russian Security Council Alexander Volfovich on May 29 confirmed that Oreshnik intermediate range ballistic missile would be deployed in neighbouring Belarus before the end of 2025. Speaking on the sidelines of an international security summit, he observed: "By year's end, I believe the decision regarding the placement of Oreshnik, which was agreed upon by our heads of state, will become a reality. These issues have been resolved, and the locations within Belarus have been finalised. Preparations are proceeding as planned. Let others think - perhaps abroad - that it won't be in Belarus. But we know exactly where it is, and how it functions. Our primary concern is to remain confident and calm, ensuring the security of our peoples - Russia and Belarus.” Plans to deploy the missiles in Belarus were first revealed by Russian President Vladimir Putin on December 6, who at the time noted that Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko had asked about his country fielding the missiles in the context of their bilateral nuclear sharing agreement.
>Russia first fired the Oreshnik in combat on November 21, with the missile estimated to have a 4000km range, and carrying multiple independently re-targetable warheads with hypersonic reentry vehicles. These vehicles can carry either nuclear or conventional warheads, with the majority of units deployed to Belarus are expected to be nuclear armed. Nuclear warheads shared with Belarus were previously deployed on the country’s Iskander-M short range ballistic missile systems, although a new derivative of the system was announced in May 2022 to be jointly under development by the two countries, with its range expected to be longer. In March President Lukashenko confirmed that his country had initiated manufacturing of several mobile launch vehicles for the Oreshnik, adding that these were nearing completion. The missiles are deployed from such vehicles to improve their survivability.
>The Oreshnik’s range, advanced penetrative capabilities, and ability to delivery precision strikes across Europe, have raised significant concerns across much of the Western world. Shortly after the Oreshnik’s unveiling and first use in combat, Russian Ambassador to the United Kingdom Andrey Kelin claimed it had a significant impact on British policy toward Moscow, and had forced London to take a more cautious approach towards supporting Ukrainian deep strikes against Russian targets. https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2025/05/will-russia-limit-itself-to-oreshnik-strikes-on-ukraine-if-the-west-escalates-attacks-on-russia.htmlWill Russia Limit Itself to Oreshnik Strikes on Ukraine if the West Escalates Attacks on Russia?
>Yves here. Andrew Korybko is underplaying what might happen next in terms of Russian responses to Ukraine’s efforts to escalate as Russia’s war machine grind through Ukraine, at an unmistakably accelerating pace. Recall that Russia is reported to have over two armies fully trained, about 240,000 soldiers, in reserve. They could be committed to the battlefield if Russia decides to up its tempo, or Russia could hold them back in case the West attempts to do Something Stoopid or use them to police an occupation.
>Korbyko mentions the recent assassination attempt on Putin when he visited Kursk in a helicopter, which has been ignored by the Western media and per John Helmer and Ray McGovern in a recent talk on Dialogue Works, underplayed in Russia. Per Helmer and McGovern, they believe that Russia has chosen to present their intelligence findings to their US counterparts, since both countries do cooperate in counter-terrorism efforts. It’s hard to think that US did not provide targeting or surveillance data. The question then is how the US tries to ‘splain this. Helmer awfully politely called this testing the US to see if it can be trusted.
>Korybko omits that Ukraine has just engaged in a massive drone attack on Russia, which is still continuing at the pace of 100 more drones a night, which Russia has parried. Alexander Mercouris argued that this campaign has to have been prepared well in advance with Ukraine’s Western allies and could have represented a resource commitment (certainly in terms of planning) on the order of the failed summer counteroffensive of 2024.
>Mark Sleboda offered a theory in a new talk with Danny Haiphong (starting at 59:00), that Ukraine and the West were engaging in an air defense war of attrition, with these drone strikes intended to deplete Russia’s air defenses and also provide information about their location and operation. Sleboda argues that the Ukraine’s allies may be planning a major missile salvo on the hope that Russian air defenses will have been so worn down so that this attack can do real damage.
>We’ll put aside the fact World War II showed that air attacks that are not sufficient to destroy the opponent harden its resolve. If Sleboda is correct, it’s remarkable to see how Ukraine and its backers have talked themselves into believing that would at best be a hard punch, not a knockout blow, is worth the enormous risks. Clearly a lot of reputations, fragile egos and rice bowls at stake.
>Note per the discussion below that Germany has taken to tap dancing about the status of its Taurus missiles, which have a 500km range and are thus longer-range than anything Ukraine has deployed before. Former Chancellor Olaf Scholz repeated rejected US and NATO pressure to let Ukraine use them. New Chancellor Freidrich Merz in a round about way confirmed that their use had actually been approved during the Biden era (even if Scholz had put the brakes on their immediate use) and commentators contend that they are already in Ukraine. Sleboda and others indicate that Ukraine may have gotten 150 out of Germany’s total current operating stock of 250.
>The Taurus missiles are air launched and they could reach Moscow. Sleboda points out the only plane that Ukraine has that could deliver them is the F-16, which Ukraine appears to have used only in a defensive capacity, well away from the line of contact. Scott Ritter has argued that the odds of an F-16 pilot surviving an attack on the front lines is 20%, that Russia has the ability to target them shortly after takeoff. That’s before getting to the fact that Ukraine has not demonstrated great competence in their use, with a high number of accidents and friendly fire incidents.
>Finally, everyone with an operating brain cell knows that the US would at a minimum be providing satellite information for targeting, and Germany would have to assist in the use of Taurus missiles. Many Russian hard-liners are upset that Russian has not delivered on its warning that Western support of an attack on pre-2014 Russia would be deemed as an act of war by the involved nations. The Ukraine incursion into Kursk clearly had Western backing.
>In other words, the West is pushing Russia to respond by striking Western cities, or alternatively, Western military assets, such as bases in Poland. From RT in Russia could target Berlin if German missiles hit Moscow – RT editor-in-chief:
<Russia would not rule out a direct strike on Berlin if German personnel help Ukraine target Moscow with German-supplied Taurus missiles, RT Editor-in-Chief Margarita Simonyan, has warned…
<German officials, however, have not confirmed any decision to send the Taurus system, and a Bild report on Wednesday suggested that the government in Berlin still considers doing so “taboo.”
<In a post on Wednesday, Simonyan warned that Germany could face dire consequences if the Taurus is ever used for attacking the Russian capital. “In Moscow offices, it is being discussed that if German troops strike Moscow with German weapons… the only option left for us is to strike Berlin,” she said.
<She went on to explain that a Taurus strike on Moscow would have to be prepared and executed by German service members because the Ukrainians “cannot maintain [the Taurus] or program it for flight missions.”
<Responding to Merz’s comments on lifting the restrictions, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, noted that if such a decision had indeed been made, it would lead to “serious escalation” and undermine current efforts to settle the Ukraine conflict.
>Simonyan is not a Russian official. Nevertheless, she looks to be a vehicle for telling the West in simple noun-verb sentences of what Russia has tried telling them before and they have ignored, since Putin has yet to make good on these threats.
>The reason for Russian restraint is likely that they know what we ought to know. Scott Ritter has said that gaming a direct conflict between the US and Russia always results in nuclear war.
>Answering any such attack merely with Oreshniks in Ukraine would thus not be proportionate unless Russia delivered on another threat, of striking decision centers, which means among other things Kiev, and/or no longer pulling its punches on prostrating Ukraine via taking out its electric grid and electric production. >>2289748>I never understand why men in these places don't just start arming and organizing themselves for the exclusive purpose of killing recruiters when they come get emThey already are. It's not just so widespread yet to have countrywide effect. Also the circumstances are difficult for organizing. Any face to face meetings with strangers could be infiltrated and any telegram group could be a spook or recruiter honeypot. The short term safer bet is still try to hide or flee. Also the local ukrainian and the western media is of course hiding these incidents as not to make it seem like ukies don't want to go to die.
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/35852>(July 16) Ukrainian officials said Monday a hunt was underway for an individual suspected of throwing a grenade at a military recruitment office in the west of the country.
>Feb 2 (Reuters) - Ukrainian prosecutors charged two men on Sunday over the killing of an army draft officer in the central Poltava region, leading a top general to call for swift punishment as he warned of growing disrespect towards members of the military.>The recruitment official was escorting mobilised men to a training centre and had stopped at a petrol station in the central Poltava region when the incident took place.>The attacker, wearing a balaclava, shot the military official and stole his weapon before fleeing “in an unknown direction with one of the newly recruited soldiers,” the region’s recruitment administration said.https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-men-charged-over-killing-army-draft-officer-2025-02-02/
>(Feb 06) A person died setting off an explosion at an army recruitment centre in western Ukraine on Wednesday, officials said, the latest in a string of similar attacks amid the country's divisive mobilisation drive. >Ukrainian police said it was the ninth such attack on a recruitment centre this year, alleging that the perpetrator who died in the explosion had been recruited by Russian agents. Ukraine's police chief, Ivan Vygivsky, told local media that the attack was orchestrated by Russia "to create a false opinion in society, destabilise the situation and create a negative attitude towards the security and defence forces in our country." I'm not here to concern troll, but we need to have this conversation.
Russia has lost this war.
Let's look at what the political objectives the Russian government set out at the beginning.
>Demilitarization status: Incomplete
<Weapons development accelerating into drones and unmanned, algorithmic, machine learning, cyber etc. systems. War still continues, enemy is still fighting. Mobilization is not enough. People are dying but nothing ever happens really.
>Denazification status: Incomplete
<Zelensky still in control, Azov still in control, EU bureaucracy still in control, US deep state still in control. Western countries hate Russians even more now. Deep state is promoting nazism on internet and real life. (Israel sure as hell is helping in that)
>Neutrality for Ukraine: Incomplete
<Ukraine is now a de-facto NATO country. In actuality, Ukraine is carrying the NATO team.
I would be more entitled to switch "Incomplete" into "The Opposite" because everything is not going how the Russian government wants it. Ukrainian government is emboldened to fight more. NATO is getting larger, the west is hating Russia even more, Russian society STILL is not experiencing any meaningful changes that would improve military situation. Everything is still in peacetime mode. Not even Crocus City could move Putin to change the internal system. The Russian elites are still running the country via 1990's models. Let's compare Russia to what the USSR did.
>Afghanistan
<All I will say is this: The pro-soviet government of the DRA, OUTLASTED the USSR by a couple months (and only fell when the new Russia refused to provide military+economical support. Think about that shit. Compare that to how embarrassingly the Assad government fell in Syria. That shit was faster than even what the Americans experienced in 2021. Really makes the mind wonder just how fucking inept Russian military+diplomatic support really is, that a small group of jihadis with pickup trucks and drones made the Syrian military FLEE in its ENTIRETY. That's Putinism for you.
>Finland
<Even though they lost more men than Finland (take sources with grain of salt but arguable) they still reached their political objectives and got Finland to fight Germany.
>Hungary 1956
<They are still salty about it. Nonetheless, they put down those lynch mobs and Hungary was an ally throughout the cold war.
>Czechoslovakia 1968
<Warsaw Pact amasses a force of 500,000 men and takes over the country in 2 days. Legit prague in two days meme. Minimal casualties on all sides, socialism preserved in czechoslovakia for 20 years.
Putinism has been a disaster for Russia. It's basically Yeltsinism but with a condom and barrels of lube. Sure Putin will sell this endgame as a victory, but it's all going to be WW1 armistice all over again.
>inb4 but what about Ukraine?
Yes I know Ukraine is dead, but remember that Russia is fighting the entire west. Just how Putin was a condom for Yeltsin, so Ukraine was a condom for NATO and that condom is now torn to pieces but NATO is still standing.
tldr
Remember Kids:
This war will only be won when the US military signs unconditional surrender terms to the BRICS alliance on the ruins of Washington DC. Anything short of this will lead to another conflict. Russia already lost once, if it loses a second time, it's over. Putin be damned. Putinism failed Russia by using the velvet glove of conservatism to push neoliberal politics and economics so that Russia stays weak. Russians are still paying for the mistakes of the birthmarked imbecile. Our only hope is that an Iron willed Stalinist takes over russia and buckbreaks the oligarchs and bureaucrats and mobilizes the proletariat and gaymers into building something productive and not mansions in god knows where.
>>2289983My call is that the war will not end this year. That is the immediate call. It won't end next year, or the year after, and then the one after that.
Are you happy?
>>2289988I'm gonna have sex with your mom tomorrow after she sucks my cock.
Are you happy?
>>2290004 (me)
With my dead mom
>>2290007>May she rest in peace.She's having sex with incels.
>>2290009Nice photoshop, incel.
>>2290017oh so you were a dumb coomer all along
carry on, coomer
>>2290029I don't know but this anon's
>>2289992 mom died. Please feel sorry for him and his dead mommy it is very sad.
>>2290025>Any news?Russia is making significant advances all along the line, particularly towards Sumy and East of Pokrovsk. Apparently Ukraine had to rush several large formations from the north to the south to shore things up after the collapse of a large pocket wherein Russia advanced without meeting any resistance.
Things aren't looking good for the stalwart defenders of Evropa. The white race might be doomed. Now it's the age of the Orc.
14 June 1931 RED RUSSIA OF TODAY RULED BY STALINISM NOT BY COMMUNISM
By WALTER DURANTY.
Special Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES
In 1932, Duranty received a Pulitzer Prize for a series of reports about the Soviet Union, eleven of which were published in June 1931. He was later criticized for his subsequent denial of the widespread famine (1930–1933) in the USSR,[1] most particularly the Holodomor.
PARIS, June 13.—Russia today cannot be judged by Western standards or Interpreted in Western terms. Western Marxists and Socialists go nearly as far wrong about it as the “bourgeois“ critics because they fail to understand that the dominant principle of the Soviet Union, though called Marxism or Communism, is now a very different thing from the theoretical conception advanced by Karl Marx.
In thirteen years Russia has transformed Marxism—which was only a theory anyway—to suit its racial needs and characteristics, which are strange and peculiar, and fundamentally more Asiatic than European.
The dominant principle in Russia today is not Marxism or even Leninism although the latter is its official title, but Stalinism—to use a word which Joseph Stalin deprecates and rejects. I mean that, just as Leninism meant Marxian theory plus practical application, plus Russia, so Stalinism denotes a further development from Leninism and bears witness to the prodigious influence of the Russian character and folkways upon what seemed the rigid theory of Marx.
Operating Principle Is Russian.
Stalinism is a tree that has grown from - the alien seed of Marxism planted in Russian soil, and whether Western Socialists like it or not it is a Russian tree.
Old Russia was an amorphous mass, held together by a mystic, half Asian idea of an imperial régime wherein the emperor was exalted to the position of God’s vice regent, with limitless power over the bodies, souls, property and even thoughts of his subjects. That, at least, was the theory, and it was only when the Czars themselves began to question it and “act human” that a spirit of doubt and eventual rebellion became manifest.
The Czarist régime was poisoned by the European veneer that was spread over Russia—a veneer that was foreign and at bottom unwelcome to the mass of the Russian people—and one of the things the Bolshevist revolution did was to sweep away this alien crust and give the essential Russianinity underneath an opportunity to breathe and grow. Which explains why the Bolsheviki, who at first were a mere handful among Russia’s millions, were able successfully to impose their dominant principle - namely Marxism—which in superficial appearance was far more alien than the Germanized or Westernized system it overthrew.
The truth is that the ideas outlined hi the Communist Manifesto of Marx (which incidentally expounds his whole philosophy far more simply, 1ucidly and concretely than the ponderous “Das Kapital” and should be learned by heart by any one who wishes to understand the Soviet Union) suited the Russian masses much better than the Western theory of individualism and private enterprise imported by Peter the Great and his successors, who finally perished in the conflict it involved with the native character of Russia.
Stalin Abolished NEP.
Lenin took and shaped Marxism to fit the Russian foot, and although circumstances compelled him to abandon it temporarily for the New Economic Policy, he always maintained that this political manoeuvre was not a basic change of policy. Sure enough, Stalin, his successor and devout disciple, first emasculated the NEP and then set about abolishing it. Today the NEP is a sorry stave in the outer courts of the Soviet palace.
That is what Stalin did and is doing to our boasted Western individualism and spirit of personal initiative—which was what the NEP meant—not because Stalin is so powerful or cruel and full of hate for the capitalist system as such, but because he has a flair for political management unrivalled since Charles Murphy died.
Stalin is giving the Russian people—the Russian masses, not Westernized landlords, industrialists bankers and intellectuals, but Russia’s 150,000,000 peasants and workers— what they really want namely, joint effort, communal effort. And communal life is as acceptable to them as it is repugnant to a Westerner. flits is one of the reasons why - Russian Bolshevism will never succeed in the United States, Great Britain, France or other parts west of the Rhine.
Stalinism, too, has done what Lenin only attempted. It has re-established the semi-divine, supreme autocracy of the imperial idea and has placed itself on the Kremlin throne as a ruler whose lightest word is all In all and whose frown spells death. Try that on free-born Americans or the British with their tough loyalty to old things, or on France’s consciousness of self. But it suits the Russians and is as familiar, natural and right to the Russian mind as it is abominable and wrong to Western nations.
Key to Stalin’s Power
This Stalin knows and that knowledge is his key to power. Stalin does not think of him as a dictator or an autocrat, but as the guardian of the sacred flame, or ‘party line’ as the Bolsheviki term it, which for want of a better name must be labeled Stalinism.
Its authority is as absolute as any emperors—it is an inflexible rule of thought, ethics, conduct and purpose that none may transgress. And its practical expression finds form in what is known as the five-year plan. The Soviet five-year plan is a practical expression of the dominant principle—which for convenience the writer will call Stalinism, although Stalin still terms it Leninism—which rules Russia today with absolute authority.
In a sense it is far more than a plan—and in another sense it is not a plan at all. It is a slogan for a national policy and purpose rather than the glorified budgetary program which it appears at first at first sight to be. Most persons outside Russia seem to think that if the five-year plan “fails’ it will be the end of Bolshevism and that if it “succeeds” it will mean the end of capitalism elsewhere. Nothing could be more absurd or more wrong.
The five-year plan is nothing more or less than applied Stalinism, and its mass of bewildering figures is only the thermometer to measure the degree of heat engendered by the application of the plan, but is not other wise intrinsically important The figures have been changed so often and so considerably as to cease to have real value save as an indication of the “tempo,” or rate, at which Stalinism is gaining ground.
Five-Year Plan Provides Goal.
To the rest of the world it is only a menace in the sense that Bolshevism itself is a menace- which may or may not be true. To Russia it is only a hope or promise in terms or what Bolshevism itself offers. But to the Russian people the five-year plan is infinitely more besides—it is a goal to aim at, and its inception cannot be regarded as a stroke of genius by any one familiar with the Russian nature.
Russians ignorant or wise, have a positive passion for plans. They almost worship a plan, and the first thing any one, two or more Russians ever do about anything is make a plan for it. That, after making his plan, the Russian feels satisfied and seems to lose sight of the fact that a plan must next be carried out is of the great obstacles Stalin and his associates are now facing.
So, to conceive a whole national policy and everything in the national life as one gigantic plan was the political tour do force that put Stalin In the highest rank. Every one who has employed Russians or worked with Russians or knows Russians finds that if he wants them to jump on a chair, he must tell them to jump on a table, and aiming at the table they will reach the chair. The important thing s that they have something to jump at and make an effort—whether they actually get there all at once or not does not really matter in a country of such vast natural resources and with such a tough and enduring population
What matters is that they keep on trying, and that is what Stalinism and its five-year plan is set to make them do. In others words, the five-year plan is something for the Russians -to measure at, not for the rest of the world to measure Russians by. This sounds confusing, but it is true, and if you cannot understand it you cannot understand Russia.
Chief Purpose Is Direction.
The whole purpose of the plan is to get the Russians going—that is, to make a nation at eager, conscious workers out of a nation that was a lump of sodden, driven slaves. Outsiders “viewing with alarm’ or hooting with disdain as they take and into making an effort and making all together in tune to the Kremlin’s music. That is why the Soviet press utters shouts of Joy about the five year plan for oil production being accomplished in two and a half years and does not care a rap when some meticulous foreigners comment about the fact that nothing like the five- year amount of oil has actually been produced.
What the Soviet press really means is that in two and a half years the daily production rate—or tempo-has reached the point set for the end of the fifth year of the plan—in short, that oil has jumped on the table way ahead or time. That the said rate may only be maintained with the utmost difficulty has small importance to Russian logic, and rightly so, because a successful effort has been made and what a man has done once that man can do again.
Russia and Russians and Russian logic are different, but the tact that they are different does not necessarily mean they are wrong.
In succeeding dispatches the writer will try to show what this difference is and how it works. More immediately, how the five-year plan works in practice in this, which the Russians call, the “third and decisive year.’ And incidentally, by “decisive” they do not mean critical or deciding of success or failure, but success only.
>>2290179so far the regime in the ukraine has invaded:
>iraq>donetsk people’s republic>lugansk people’s republic>russia4 countries, 4 illegal full scale unprovoked invasions that violate international laws
and that’s just the ones we know about, they have probably invaded or or two more here or there….
>>2290269>iraqWut
>donetsk people’s republicInvading your own country lmao
>lugansk people’s republicSame as above
>russiaCounter-invasion
>>2290272>their own country broukraine had no right to invade or attack donetsk or luhansk under international law (UNSC resolution pertaining to Minsk agreements), yet it refused to stop doing so, triggering the russian "Counter-invasion", and now they pretend to be victims.
they're not victims, they're aggressors and serial violators of international law who wanted war over a legally mandated peace that didn't give them unlimited sovereignty over donetsk and luhansk.
>iraqthey joined the "coalition of the willing" to help the empire invade iraq.
>>2290444>today I will defend a regime that killed and outlawed communists, wrecked its own industry, and gave everything in their country to Blackrock and CIA, that attacked China time after time, not to mention Nazismyeah, banderites to be despised.
>Chinathat was the USSR, which ukraine was part of.
>>2288909>>2288947the fact that even with all the gibs pouring at ukraine they aren't willing to die for the z-agent and hoholand dreams and decide to protest, it's an indication how little stability that country will face one the elinsky-dictator is deposed.
it's gonna be a bloody dictatorship of the benderite.
>>2290779No, there wasn't. Empirical evidence - no collapse of Norway, Iran, OAE, Saudis, etc - proves that oil prices weren't connected to USSR's collapse. It's called logic
>>2290753GDP is fake
>>2290753>>2290769Ok I found it. I'll take out China and US so you can see the differences between the next 8 biggest economies better.
First:
>GDP PPP-adjusted.Second:
>GDP PPP-adjusted minus China, EU, USThird:
>GDP NominalFourth:
>GDP Nominal minus China, EU, US >>2290795AI says in 1980 Italy was 4th largest
It's probably due to GDP calculation adjustments, or retroactive GDP recalcuations, that pushed Italy from 4th place to 7th. Because I also remember talks about how Italy is a super rich country of the future
>>2290795>Metrics are imperfect>So it's better to just measure things by your feelsThis argument is so fucking dumb and repeated over and over again and it never adds anything to any conversation.
I swear to god I hate you dumb motherfuckers who are like:
>That's wrong!<No I will not give an alternative hypothesis! >>2290798<So it's better to just measure things by your feelsIndeed, this is a very dumb argument. Just because there are no metrics other than "imperfect" ones doesn't mean you should worship them. Lack of alternatives doesn't make something more true
Fact of the matter, GDP is a blatantly US biased metric that replaced metrics that were blatantly biased in favor of British Empire. Now that China is the top dog, you'll see GDP being replaced with something else - for now it looks like PPP is the biggest competitor for the role, but Chinese don't use it, or GDP nominal, in their calculations, so doubtful it will stick
ALL countries calculate thier economies in their local currencies. Because DUH, that's the most useful metric for any country. Tailor-fucking-made for their conditions. Lack of ability of GDP to compare local currencies is the death knell of GDP
>>2290801>Lack of alternatives doesn't make something more trueIn a way it does, you're not offering anything that could help us determine how inaccurate they are. You're just saying:
>These metrics are imperfect!Which, no shit, all metrics are.
>for now it looks like PPP is the biggest competitor for the role, but Chinese don't use it, or GDP nominal, in their calculations, so doubtful it will stickAnd I gave the PPP numbers.
>>2290807>And I gave the PPP numbers.PPP numbers are just a modifier slapped onto GDP numbers. It's not an improvement, because the base is really fucking stupid to begin with
>you're not offering anythingSo fucking what? Huh? HUH? Why do you fucking care for fake numbers? They don't represent anything tangible. "Oh no, they criticize my numbers, and don't offer better numbers, that must mean we must stick to my numbers!" - this shit is retarded, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
You want to compare shit? Well then, let's compare consumption of goods, at the very least, caloric intake and diversity of foods. How about that?
>>2290785>>2290769>>2290753short answer to everyone:
The IMF is two blocks away the white house.
80's Japan-as-Number-One?
(US's) IMF says no, baby.
Asian tigers ready to surpass the US?
(US's) IMF SAYS FUCKING NO, baby.
EU was to take over the US dollar?
https://www.ipe.com/when-the-euro-overtakes-the-dollar/27905.article(US's) IMF SAYS FUCK YOU, EUROPOORS!
And so on, and so on.
>>2290272>Wutliterally see the 2nd video in
>>2290234actually watch both of them
>>2290814>You want to compare shit? Well then, let's compare consumption of goods, at the very least, caloric intake and diversity of foods. How about that?That's retarded, because I'm sure there were are a lot of tribal societies where everyone was eating better than advanced economies of the same period.
> this shit is retarded, and you should be ashamed of yourself. No u. It is up to you to present a better hypothesis than the imperfect hypothesis.
>>2290823EU had no chance. Logic of capitalism is monopolistic, meaning it's better to invest into the hegemon than to develop own national economy. Same for Japan.
China isn't capitalist, therefore is actually upsetting the US hegemonic position. Now it's the other way around, world capitalism sees more benefit in investing into Chinese socialism, because Chinese socialism has better returns than American capitalism.
Literally Engels' naive idea:
<let's peacefully transition away from capitalism by buying all capitalist property by offering better returns on investments than capitalists could ever hope for, and outlive capitalism by having faster rate of growthThere was a research into economic dynamism or some shit, which meant how many new successful companies were created in this or that country. EU even at it's peak had much less dynamism than USA. Today, China is much more dynamic than USA. You even have USA fighting against itself on the topic of Chinese investments! National-minded porkies want to tariff China and stop American investments into China, while pragmatic porkies want to keep investing, because it's better returns
>>2290826?????
>>2290802 AI is a tool, you are a tool if you don't understand how to use one
>>2290834>I'm sure there were are a lot of tribal societies where everyone was eating better than advanced economies of the same period.Then you are a retard, lmao
>No u>present a better hypothesisGDP is unapologetically shit. GDP PPP doesn't represent China's factual dominance either, doesn't represent America's bloated healthcare and rent costs either. For fuck's sake, Soviets in 1930s were talking about how 1/4 of all incomes in USA is spent on rent, and so they've been comparing consumption of goods instead of exchange rate USD prices, because it's so fucking obvious
>>2290853>That's a sign of povertyLook at this retard and laugh
What's a sign of richness, then? How much you pay for healhcare and rent?
>Meat consumption would be the better metricWhy? Inefficient production shouldn't be given better metric results than an efficient one. Mud pies don't improve quality of life, however much labor was put into them.
>>2290855"It may be an imperfect metric, but it's the best one we have"
>>2290814>PPP numbers are just a modifier slapped onto GDP numbers. It's not an improvementAnd I gave the PPP numbers.
PPP has like 5 different inputs besides the GDP, and this gives more information.
>>2290857>"It may be an imperfect metric, but it's the best one we have"Common sense tells you it's a worse metric than any of the ones I posted. Common sense tells you that the next 4 countries after China aren't rich at all. In fact they are rather… impoverished, any reasonable person would say.
>What's a sign of richness, then? How much you pay for healhcare and rent?I just gave you a better dietary one, fucking meat consumption, but you're such a retarded vegan you are trying to claim that Albania is the second richest per capita on earth.
>Why? Inefficient production shouldn't be given better metric results than an efficient one. Mud pies don't improve quality of life, however much labor was put into them. Lmao retarded ass vegan.
I already acknowledged you'd have to account for dietary preferences, but immediately we can see it is a better metric than yours but there is still bizzare stuff like Argentina being number 3/4. I thought those motherfuckers were broke so I don't know how they afford so much meat.
>>2290864>GDP retards cannot comprehend the idea of comparing multiple graphs. Steel is a very good metric for the reason of steel being an input good for almost everything. Oil and electricity (or equivalent energy) are good for the same reasonDamn, that's probably the best metric. Electricity consumption per capita. I guess except for electric cars now skewing it, it's probably the best one.
Wait, scratch that, it's obviously skewing towards cold and hot countries because they use all that electricity for air-con and heating.
Huh, would you look at that.
>>2290870>country cold, therefore energy consumption unfairI thought you were talking about how meat consumption is more representative of richness? Why meat is rich, but heating a house isn't?
>>2290873>Samefageh, no.
>gdp is a shit number I didn't state otherwise.
>which is why most take gdp per capitayes.
>which is just as shitty because inherently it includes things like rent and the financial sectorand?
>Soviet gdp would always be lower due how prices were kept low, Rent was very cheap and basic foodstuff. The Soviets used their own metric because duh gdp wasn't useful in measuring a socialist economy.the USSR also measured their stuff with the GDP, presented in many of their macroeconomic books.
SO, no real argument to make a case about rejecting the GDP PPP, or GDP PPP PC, which are two fine method to reflect more important things than what the GDP proposes.
>>2290878Per capita doesn't tell you anything. Not even median tells you anything. What you need is a median consumption, not GDP
>>2290890>free stuff contributes to richness!But I thought comparing feudal societies to tribal ones, that supposedly were better fed, was haram? Because tribal socieites got stuff for free and ate better than developed countries????
>>2290891>But I thought comparing feudal societies to tribal ones, that supposedly were better fed, was haram? Because tribal socieites got stuff for free and ate better than developed countries????Huh? I thought you were previously claiming that tribal societies didn't eat better than any developed countries.
Once again these are two completely different things we're talking about.
TOTAL = SIZE OF ECONOMY
PER CAPITA = LIVING STANDARD
Which are completely different things.
>>2290908If we go and find every cause of USSR's death, and then go over to the capitalist side and watch closely, we will find that USSR shouldn't have collapsed for those reasons. Oil prices didn't collapse Norway, state buying shit by plan is at worst equivalent to USA buying gazillion tonnes of cheese, etc etc.
The only actual explanation is class war, not some idealistic nonsense about how planners didn't plan well enough
>>2290911Class war
>>2290912 In other words, sabotage, which was conducted for the purpose of justifying privatization
>>2290904>Dude, you went from refusing to compare countries by food consumption "because advanced socieites ate worse than tribal ones at some point", but then chimped out over heating vs sun. You are inconsistent as fuckMy god you fucking retard.
See:
>>2290897>TOTAL = SIZE OF ECONOMY>PER CAPITA = LIVING STANDARDI was the one saying that tribal societies might have had better living standards and that living standards, especially on a narrow metric like food, really aren't related to the economy. A tribal society has no fucking economy.
Jesus Christ. You types that deliberately try to make as many fallacious arguments as possible just to shit up every conversation.
>>2290914In other words, sabotage, which was conducted for the purpose of justifying privatization
So what was the last good year in the USSR before this started happening?
>>2290927Yes-yes, you are the one who argues in favor of meat, a highly inefficient source of calories, but against heating, because it's unfair for countries that leave in hotter climates; but I AM the one who makes fallacious arguments
Here, have a smug anime girl. You deserve it
>>2290931>Not only a vegan retard but a weeb as wellAnyways I'm not going to reply to you anymore because you have nothing to say. I'm going to give you one last explanation.
>Yes-yes, you are the one who argues in favor of meat, a highly inefficient source of calories,I didn't argue favor of meat, I argued that meat consumption is a better measure of personal wealth, because meat is more expsensive than vegetables. I argued that poorer nations have more vegetable consumption and less meat consumption because of the price differences.
> because it's unfair for countries that leave in hotter climates;How are these two things related in anyway shape or form?
>>2290946I asked a simple question. It's open to everyone else besides Kampuchea as well.
>>2290936>INB4 the USSR economy was stronger than ever when Gorbachev took powerCan anyone give any evidence to support this claim?
>>2290940>I argued that meat consumption is a better measure of personal wealth, because meat is more expsensive than vegetablesMeat is A LABOR SPENT TO PRODUCE COMPARATIVELY SUBPAR PRODUCT. In other words, it's not a symbol of BEING RICH, it's a symbol of WASTING LABOR.
Mud pies do not make you richer. Or, say, if you produce boots two times longer than your competitor, price of your boots will still be the same as your competitor's. Meat per calorie IS INEFFICIENT AS FUCK.
Do you get it now? Do you understand? Answer me, smartass
>How are these two things related in anyway shape or form?You argued for heating metrics being dead labor - the same way meat is compared to vegetables. And you implied it's not a symbol of being rich
>>2290958>You argued for heating metrics being dead labor - the same way meat is compared to vegetables. And you implied it's not a symbol of being richEveryone in every country has to eat, not everyone has to cool or heat their house. Are you fucking retarded?
>Meat is A LABOR SPENT TO PRODUCE COMPARATIVELY SUBPAR PRODUCT. In other words, it's not a symbol of BEING RICH, it's a symbol of WASTING LABOR.
>Mud pies do not make you richer. Or, say, if you produce boots two times longer than your competitor, price of your boots will still be the same as your competitor's. Meat per calorie IS INEFFICIENT AS FUCK.
>Do you get it now? Do you understand? Answer me, smartassSo you really think that Albania is the second richest country per capita? You think that they have the second highest standard of living?
>>2290964>See? Absolute chaos if I don’t cook.I don't like to use this as the debate the USSR thread, but since everyone else does, and we have no USSR thread, here we are. Why don't you cook us a USSR general so we can stop derailing this one.
>>2290968>Everyone in every country has to eat, not everyone has to cool or heat their house.1) not every country has to eat meat. You are just grasping at straws here
2) not cooling or heating averages out anyway by warmer countries being able to use labor not spent on heating for something else. You wouldn't want to penalize hong kong in GDP metrics for not needing to heat houses as much as, say, Russia, do you now?
>So you really think that Albania is the second richest country per capita?You haven't disproven this, lmao. You used a hilarious argument of "but it's evidently not so!"
>>2290951>I asked a simple question.no, you didn't. you have asserted that the USSR fell because
a) they didn't understand about economics. See Leonid Kantorovich, for example..
b) they ruined their economy because of a).
without one single piece of evidence.
who's educating and teaching you about these "facts"? a westner-financed institution? a liberal writer? a chvd youtube?
bring it on.
>>2290979You already won Kampuchea, now that you won, why don't you tell me the correct answer and misspell my misconceptions.
Maybe there is someone else reading this conversation with the same misconception or hasn't made up their mind either way. Since you're the expert, why not educate us?
>>2290976>You haven't disproven this, lmao. You used a hilarious argument of "but it's evidently not so!">>2290976>1) not every country has to eat meat. You are just grasping at straws hereNo one has to eat meat, but everyone has to eat food. A country could be starving and still have no need for air-conditioning and heating. Once again I have completely lost the point about why you are trying to draw a parallel when there is no parallel.
>2) not cooling or heating averages out anyway by warmer countries being able to use labor not spent on heating for something else. You wouldn't want to penalize hong kong in GDP metrics for not needing to heat houses as much as, say, Russia, do you now?Which is why I said that personal electricity consumption is a useless measurement to find personal household wealth.
>You haven't disproven this, lmao. You used a hilarious argument of "but it's evidently not so!"We could look at other consumption factors.
But you've derailed the whole discussion since originally we were talking about sizes of economy instead of living standards. Anyways since we're talking about healthy eating and whatever. I think the best way to devise living standards would be life expectancy wouldn't you say? This would encompass quality of diet, leisure/exercise time, healthcare, etc. and is the final output of all those factors.
Interesting that Hong Kong has the number 1 life expectancy and is also the number 1 consumer of meat. Seems kind of anti-vegan(not with your efficiency argument before you start going off on that, but in terms of health impact.)
>>2290844>I'm still waiting for you to devise or find a better metric.many products metrics help too, in many different contrasts. sticking only with the GDP, GDP PPP or GDP PPP PC is moronic. All soviet descriptive economic books I remember I have seen they loved to take products after products, goods after goods, in long tables positioning the US and USSR there, so everyone could take a glance on production.
Almost everywhere, and I can show some of these books, the USSR was top 1 position.
>>2290992>Almost everywhere, and I can show some of these books, the USSR was top 1 position.Please do, I would walk away better informed.
Also why don't you guys compile me a list of links and books to put in this /USSR/ general since none of you will bake it. I'll do it, but it might be better if one of you USSR experts do it, but if you won't, give me the links you want in it at least.
>>2290987GDP is supposed to represent economic output, and economic output - quality of life. This doesn't happen
Meat (or rather it's inefficiency comparative) and heating represent economic output
You are saying this yourself:
<But you've derailed the whole discussion since originally we were talking about sizes of economy instead of living standardsSo, you won't be able to wriggle yourself out of this
>A country could be starving and still have no need for air-conditioning and heating.And that same country could be using labor otherwise spent on heating for something else. Therefore, heating is valid, unlike meat (compared to other foods)
>Anyways since we're talking about healthy eating and whatever.It's not healthy eating, it's calorie efficiency. But we can talk about heathy eating, sure, and gawk at how much labor Americans are wasting to cure diseases that stem from unhealthy diets
>>2291006>GDP is supposed to represent economic output, and economic output - quality of life. This doesn't happen>You are saying this yourself:Anon how can you not understand the concept that an economy can be small, and have a high standard of living, and an economy can be large, and have a low standard of living? How is this so hard to understand?
I'm not going to reply to the rest since you're just trying to make this an argument about the merits of veganism when that had nothing to do with anything.
>>2291010Is it a moral thing to you or something? Do you really think that one has to be a vegan to recognize that meat is inefficient?
>haha i'm smart I know the difference between QOL and economics!Well then, what about heating? Evidently, you don't understand economics and use QOL instead of economics - in case of energy consumption
>>2291025>Is it a moral thing to you or something? Do you really think that one has to be a vegan to recognize that meat is inefficient?How is effiency related to the debate at all?
>Well then, what about heating? Evidently, you don't understand economics and use QOL instead of economics - in case of energy consumptionWhat does that even mean.
>Original topicOverall size of economies, not quality of living, personal wealth, household spending, anything per capita. Per capita questions are completely unrelated to measuring the size of economies.
>First derail: Per capitaWe derailed to per capita, and then you put forth that: More vegetable you eat, richer you are per capita. Which we already covered back and forth. It's not a good measurement of household wealth, overall living standards, anything.
<The electricity consumptionIs also not a good indicator of personal wealth because it is dictated by the climate, and energy sources for the main expenditure being heating in many climates. They may spend the same amount of energy from localized consumption from gas or instead of at a centralized gas power plant.
Anyways they are both wrong measures of Per Capita spending and wealth and anything. That is the only parallel between them is that they are both bad measures of that.
>Third derail:Grains are the most efficient way of getting calories, not the most nutritious, but the most efficient. If you are just trying to talk about what method is the most efficient and cheapest way to provide more calories to more people, it's grains.
Your fucking vegetable argument was dumb from all fucking sides and was a derail of a derail of a derail. Jesus Christ.
>>2291054Couple things, I can't read Russian. So that was one of the reasons I wanted Kampuchea anon to provide this information he read. Second, is this going to prove that the Russian economy was in good shape before Gorbachev took power?
I'm honestly asking for any source. Preferably in English, but since you guys can speak Russian, you can find me sources available in Russian only and point me to the part that proves this.
I'll re-open the question to Kampuchea anon. Kampuchea, before you start sperging about fucking my mom:
>We are no longer debatingNow I am simply asking:
>I've heard some people say that the USSR's economy was in great health before Gorbachev took power, is there any reliable source I can read that would verify this?See I took no positions Kampuchea. It's not a debate. No burden of proof is on me. I'm asking you a simple question.
>>2291070copemap can hardly be called coping anymore
even with all the gray areas they add, it makes for poor reading if you believe in ukrainian victory
>>2291068Tbh mate, I doubt any source exists out there to confirm or deny that the Soviet economy was good during the 1970s in the lead up to Perestroika, because the situation was ultimately down to oil suddenly not being a stable and therefore endlessly dependable commodity for trade as it had been prior, a revelation that affected the entire globe with the invariable kneejerk reaction was that collectivisation or nationalisation (depending on what side of the wall you were on) was something that needed to be funded, it was funded by oil, now oil isn’t totally dependable, all of the welfare and subsidies are unfunded and have to go.
Anyone looking for an argument about how Perestroika was made necessary by the Soviet economy in the 1970s are just looking for ideological differences to what happened in socdem nations in the 1970s, but there aren’t any, it was a global trade crisis that reactionaries made convincing but false arguments for scrapping the concept of society and retvrning to every-man-for-himself with the “entrepreneurs” making off like bandits buying up the subsidised shit to “privatise” and set a “market price” that was far more unrealistic than the subsidised costs they claimed were and causing the problem.
>>2291105A planned economy always has trouble growing beyond a certain point, because it requires inputs obtainable only through trade, primarily with the West, where the US dollar dominates.
So you need foreign currency reserves through export of commodities or cash crops (leftcoms triggered). Hydrocarbons are an obvious choice. That's what Khrushchev's obsession with corn was about, as well as the Aral Sea being siphoned into cotton. This is how ML's pragmatism gives rise to market reformists like Deng.
>>2289777o7
death to all bourgeois meat catchers
>>2291484 (me)
more of this advanced technolo-gia.
>>2291302>That's what Khrushchev's obsession with corn was aboutNo, Khruschev's obsession with corn was about doing things in anti-stalinist ways. Imagine situation like this: there are established pro-Stalin academics, like Lysenko, who push for intensification of agrarian production, more digging water reservoirs, channels, better equipment, better breeding, investments into science, etc etc. And then there are "new" academics, who refuse stalinist academics' ideas on any excuse at all (like that famous example of of them dismissing experimental data of lysenkoists not with repeat experiments, but with "it must have been the dirt in the samples!"), but more importantly - with ideas that ran contrary to stalinist academics' own. So, instead of intesive agriculture, they had an idea about working the virgin lands of Kazakhstan - with obvious disastrous results of USSR defaulting on bonds it's citizens have purchased
THIS is the basis for corn. Merely an excuse to go against entrenched stalinist bureaucracy. It was pure bourgeois politicking
>>2291399The meatgrinder chugs on but USA wants to pivot away from Ukraine, without conceding an inch of control to the EU. So all their atlanticst agents within the EU are trying to super-chuddify Europe into "independently" bailing out NATO and the US economy. And forming a a pre-emptive anti-communist alliance under the guise of… whatever is at hand.The point is, this move opens a lot of opportunism within liberal politics and the atlanticists want to make sure the incentives lead to Israel abiding, atlanticist-pilled fascists rather than any sort of independent or god-forbid leftist opposition. They are just gonna drive neoliberalism into the ground, until the open fascists get big enough to take over.
Meanwhile the RF keeps "winning" and NATO keeps "losing" in the actual battlegrounds but in a way where neither side seems interested in ending the war. Presumably because the RF wants to keep draining the EU and the USA likes the idea for their own reasons. A war that doesn't end cannot really be won or lost.
The EU keeps saber rattling about sending troops and re-militarizing Ukraine after a ceasefire. But to me that rings more of a threat to the USA's control over the situation than the RF, although the terms are still completely unacceptable to the latter. The *open* diplomacy seems to go nowhere because NATO insists on negotiation as if they were the victor and offering terms just short of unconditional RF surrender.
>>2291575Not in Russia, no. Americans put corn into everything, Russians don't. For sugar, Russians use beet sugar. For feeding cattle, Russians use grains like wheat, while Amercans feed animals with corn and soy. Corn wasn't even growing properly in Russia's climate, it wasn't effecient compared to traditional cultures. There was no market for corn consumption
Corn epic, and virgin lands campaign, have led to USSR defaulting on it's bond to it's citizens, wasted money that Stalin has raised for the purposes of stalinist projects (digging up a channel connecting Volga to Don, for example, as well as Great Turkmen Channel connecting Aral Sea to Caspian Sea), and has led to Khruschev's rule most hated result - a money reform that erased people's savings. Because, again, corn and virgin lands (and equalized wages reforms, and draining Belarusian and Ukrainian swamps, and other stupid things) were a failure of THIS MUCH scale
>>2291302Sure but that equally applies to the west and that’s my point, the Soviet economy in the 1970s could be considered bad in comparison to the Soviet economy of the 1960s, but not necessarily in comparison to the west where the 1970s were also considered a rather stagnant time for its economy.
Both had an era of stagnation, both had reactionaries exploit it to suggest the solution is letting
entrepreneurs crooks and black marketers cook.
>yes the “let him cook” meme is a recent discovery for me https://unitedsoybean.org/issue-briefs/global-markets/?utm_source=chatgpt.comCurrently, more than
60% of U.S. Soy is exported as whole soybeans, meal or oil to markets outside of the United States. International customers are key drivers in global demand for and consumption of U.S. Soy
>>2291639>>2291638>>2291636Oh, and by the way, it's hilarious how Khruschev became enamored with American corn and how cheap it was when in fact American corn - just like diary and other farming output - was heavily, obsessively, ineffective-as-fuck subsidized by the US state. It is so to this fucking day, and US state frequently seeks to offload it's stockpiled-by-law agricultural reserves onto the third world as "aid" because American agriculture is deeply unprofitable - without the reallocation of profits through taxation towards farming, that is.
Hence, it's hilarious how anticommunists claim that Soviet collective farms were subsidized, unprofitable, yadda yadda, because of no free market and state buying up all the stock. It works in US, though! Meaning the reason for Soviet farms degenerating was something else cough Khruschev reforms that impoverished farmers through forced malinvestment by collective farms into shit they didn't need cough
>>2291654>whereas you’ve explicitly asked the AI to agree with youNo I didn't you dumb faggot. I gave you the link to the conversation. I pasted the toality. I asked:
>>2291615>Where did the term cash crop come fromYou can find other non-AI sources.
>>2291652Actually, it's because America has the single most fertile strip of land on the planet. Government policy is mainly about stabilizing a "free market" for produce, maintaining market shares, blah blah blah. While "Virgin lands" was a shit idea when the tsars tried to do it, too.
Anybody trying to dunk on Soviet vs American agriculture must be made aware of that fact. And this isn't me suggesting that Americans are wasteful with the riches they were
stole, do not deserve them, or that Soviet would've done better, it's me saying it outright because they absolutely would.
>>2291663Making more a general point about using AI and then boasting about using AI when it agrees with you, when AI can be wrong also. To be clear, I don’t think it’s wrong in this case, but being like
>look look the AI agrees with me! Case closed! You’re all retards because the AI confirms what I wanted it toIs kind of the essence of source?posting.
>>2291672>>2291673Why do you keep double posting?
Anyway, I’ve made my point about AI cringe, if you don’t care about being cringe then I’ve no input to a meltdown over definitions of terms.
>>2291674>Why do you keep double posting?Because I think of a new statement after I hit post you dumb faggot.
>Anyway, I’ve made my point about AI cringe, if you don’t care about being cringe then I’ve no input to a meltdown over definitions of terms.Oh man, the cringe. There is no meltdown. I'm fine, thanks for your concern. TBH I'd be more worried about yourself. You already admitted I was right, you just didn't like the way I'm right. What are you saying? Absolutely nothing.
>>2291677>That making a big deal of AI agreeing with you is cringe. Yes, the question was simple, but in that case why not just open a dictionary for a definition? You don’t have the time for that, but you have time for try to assert to the thread you’re feeling fine?Because the first definition I listed was, inaccurate and didn't capture the meaning, so I had to ask: what is the origin of the term.
>>2291605>>2291607>Sale isn't the same as export Anon.Now the AI agreed with me because as you've acknowledged it is a simple question with a simple definition and origin. This is something I learned in my basic schooling but most of you are retards who know less than any LLM.
Anyways, about the term cringe, you are a dumb faggot. You'll cringe, aka recoil, and I'll knock your lights out as you turn away. Cringe all you like faggot. That means nothing to me. Why say it? Am I supposed to feel something because a faggot recoils? Man faggots recoil before I strike them. Cringe all you like.
>INB4 I am imagining some interaction that will never happenDamn straight, I will never see you cringe and you will never see my fist in your face. So bet it. Your faggot physical reactions have no bearing on the discussion. I'll cave your skull while you cringe. Don't talk about your faggot physical reactions and I won't talk about my physical reactions to it, they have no bearing on the discussion.
>>2291685I'm not cringe, I'm barf. I'm beyond cringe. I'm perhaps ulcer. Did you just contract an ulcer?
You are such a dumb faggot. I want you to know it's not about you. I'm upset about how many of you faggots like you there are. It's nothing to do with you, but how many of you there are.
>>2291689Like this is literally what you're doing
>I say something<I am cowering in response to your post>I am confused I can't understand it at all. What is making me of your physical reactions of cowardice supposed to make me feel? I don't understand.
>>2291711Like am I supposed to feel guilty?
>Oh man the champaign socialism flag recoiled in fear from my statement>damn I feel bad about itWhat?
>>2291709If we could just slow your posting down a bit and get to the facts, the facts are
>you asked AI the wrong question >presented a probably correct answer to the wrong question >boasted about how AI agreed with youI only cared about the last part, but then you had to start making threats and thus, I cooked.
>>2291739>>2291736You seem to think the definition of cringe is some kind of gotcha, but I've no problem with words taking on new definitions in different times and contexts, whether that's the word "cringe" or the term "cash crop", it's yourself that needed to commit the
cringe of pretending like the etymology of a term is the only correct definition and pretending like that's what the AI confirms to win an internet argument over probably the least interesting argument one can have online.
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