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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1749510715098.png (435.01 KB, 390x395, juche_england.jpg.png)

 

Who was Paul Pawlowski?
>Paul Pawlowski (born 1926/1927) was a Polish-born immigrant, Hellenic polytheist and English republican who, from the late 1970s until his resignation in 1996, served as the leader and only member of the Republican Party of England and the English People’s Liberation Army (EPLA).

What was the EPLA?
<The EPLA originated as a split from the Maoist Working People's Party of England. The Army's ideology called for the independence of England from "Judeo-fascist" forces.
<According to the "Dictionary of Terrorism", it was "extremely weak" but had "undertaken isolated bomb attacks". In 1983, it claimed responsibility for a parcel bomb sent to the headquarters of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.
<Barberis et al claim that the organisation may have had links to the Oliver Cromwell Republican Party, founded in 1977. This minor organisation, also led by Paul Pawlowski, later renamed the Republican Party of England, is best known for its leader's demonstration against the wedding of Charles and Diana in 1981

The revolutionary career of Pawlowski, in his own words:
"In 1960s I read the Iliad in HMP Brixton.
Why! Thats polytheism – thats my religion i decided.
in 1970s I opened Temple of Aphrodite Pandemos in my one room in Tooting. Landlord told me to get out – evicted.
I moved to empty house in Charington Road squat.
There was Banner books shop nearby in Camden High street.
The shopwindow was Red with little red books bust of chairman Mao in the middle. Indian man Bijour was the shopkeeper.
I am having lunch in Cypriot restaurant with my lady when Bijour comes in sits with us at our table and we talk. Bijour says What Britain needs is British peoples liberation army.
I took on his idea and improved it
What Britain needs is English republican ideology – Republican party of England – English peoples liberation army.
The monarch abdicate – Republican England is born.
I bought a house in Accrington – turned it into HQ of English Peoples Liberation Army. Got raided by Special Branch.
What is the strength of the English Peoples Liberation Army? the SB officer asked. Military secret I replied. I think you are regimental Number One he said.
I drafted a petition for the Queen to abdicate let England be Republic. Went with it to meeting in Birmingham. It was leftwingers rally – about 200 signed my petition for the Queen to abdicate.
Encouraged by the response I convened a meeting at the Rising Sun pub near Victoria coach station. Five comrades came – we drunk pint and talked English Republic.
Encouraged - I drafted English Republican leaflet – published by Paul Pawlowski, Secretary, Republican Party of England.
The feedback was abusive – To saltmines in Siberia with you you foreigner!
They didn't like the name …ski. Printed another leaflet – same text only this time published by Thomas Smith, Secretary of Republican Party of England. Now the feedback was normal – some agreed – some asking for more info – some supported some against – normal.
Went with it to Camden Town Hall where the Daily Worker had a fete. The police at the entrance took notice of the name Thomas Smith – the police was on the lookout for that Thomas Smith – got raided by Special Branch officers
I continued with placard and leaflet calling for England to be Republic. Got arrested for it in the street in Accrington – the magistrate said Three months. With Clenched Fist salute I cried out Victory to the English Peoples Liberation Army!
Local newspaper carried report about it.
In HMP Strangeways prison officers were asking me "Tell us where is the English Peoples Liberation Army and we all go there and join it."
HMP prison officers were the first recruits to EPLA.
HMP Strangeways was burned down – it was burning for many days."
https://web.archive.org/web/20110116045112/http://indiaculture.net/talk/messages/128/10039.html?1252331010

Last thread: >>2282435

>>2306714
what's wild about this is that they didn't give a fuck when they alienated the Yes voters in Scotland c. 2014 by lying to get a no vote.

sounds like an absolute gaylord and also polish

Kneecap status?

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>>2307787
slowly starting to wake up

Anyone else had an issue like this?
I've had a friend that I have been very close with for years. Probably someone I've been able to be more 'myself' with than anyone else. Whilst I'm left-wing and he's right-wing, we were able to get on despite these differences - discussing the perspectives, making jokes etc. The one exception is that after things kicked off on Oct 7, he was adamently in favour of Israel whilst I supported Palestine. As it became glaringly obvious this was becoming a genocide, his opinion didn't change, and by 6 months we effectively stopped talking about it (I felt so frustrated with his views, I don't know how he felt about mine).
I can't understand why he does seem to be so pro-Israel, given he's not actually got any links to the country. We didn't talk about the war for a year but he's sent me a message that seems to show he still remains supportive of Israel.
I wonder if it's worth ending the friendship with him. It really paints him in a terrible light. Though in a way, is ending things any more than virtue signalling - it won't help Palestinians, and he knows my views on it. It also seems unwise to do so when we share a friend group (who likely don't know his views). I find value in the friendship outside of political views, but I wonder how far should that separation be tested.

Ultimately, can you be friends with someone who would spend a long semester in a re-education camp if you had your way?

>>2308301
Have you tried approaching the topic from the angle of the Jews being anti-British? Bring up Irgun attacks on British troops, the King David Hotel bombing, the Lavon Affair, Israel selling weapons to Argentina during the Falklands War etc.

>>2308337

>>2308337
>>2308430

>>2308337
>>2308430
>>2308435
Found this guy a while back https://www.instagram.com/republican_action/ has some sound ideas. There is a space for "Cromwellism" as a popular movement.

>>2308486
>There is a space for "Cromwellism" as a popular movement.
Delusion induced exclusively by desire to larp

>>2308301
the correct position is to not support either, this isn't a football match, it's a millennia long blood feud.

>>2308935
If you want republicanism to take off in this country, you need to build a culture behind it. You cant just abolish shit and expect people to identify with it. This is why Libs like Republic never get anywhere.

>>2308943
>Millennia long
The first zionist congress was in 1897

>>2309235
whatever point in time islam and judaism existed at the same time is when it would have started.

>>2309256
historically, conflict in the region has been between muslims and christians.
jews typically sided with the muslims because they were more tolerant.
israel/palestine is a national conflict rooted in the era of New Imperialism from the late 19th century to early 20th century

>>2309268
>it says here in this history book
I'm sure it does

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>>2309232
there was a news broadcast a few years ago during charles' coronation and it was tragic. suited-up zoomers defending the monarchy because "tourism" and boomer hippies opposing the monarchy because "public services". in the end, our culture amounts to an economic transaction. this is the spiritlessness of these civic movements. how can you be "patriotic" about a land where everything is for sale? thats why a positive nationalism can only oppose the rule of profit.

>>2309325
>Margaret "Friend of the jews" Thatcher

>>2309325
patriotism is a meme anyway
in the least far-right way possible, only nationalism is real. patriotism is gordon brown proposing a national day or an anodyne statement of "british values" that comes out as meaningless drivel: "Democracy, the Rule of Law, Individual Liberty, Mutual Respect, and Tolerance of Different Faiths and Beliefs" (these fundamental values surely, distinguish Britain from literally every western Liberal democracy)

because English nationalism can't yet credibly distinguish itself from British nationalism, and because British nationalism cannot even recognize itself as a nationalism (instead, it's "anti-nationalism", because "Nationalism" is the celtic fringe trying to leave), Britain cannot engage in the kind of nation-building project necessary to inspire anything whatsoever. to develop shared contestable values that distinguish Britain - even superficially - from other countries.

>>2309400
>>2309357
Identity is based on heritage and is self-imposed. You don't get to decide what factors are important in determining someone's identity. Sorry chuds.

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Thoughts?

>>2309447
>when someone tells you they're a leftist
>when they say they just want capitalism with welfare

>>2309279
>>2309256
Well aren't you a silly billy. Hey can you please out to me zionist-arab conflict in say, 1500s. Should be easy to find right?

>try not to rape
*fail*

>>2309559
the current contest is over land the jew consider to belong to them, after Rome BTFO'd them whenever that was , 1500 years ago. The muslims who live there don't agree with this, so right there we have a feud that is embedded in history and absolutely will not end no matter what happens with this latest conflict.

>>2309400
This is why I'm starting to believe a positive English nationalism is needed, since it will destroy the reactionary idea of 'British Nationalism' and the UKKK along with it.

>>2309644
'african state'

lol the reading level the BBC aims at is so low now

>>2306714
so it looks like it is confirmed they are shilling reform as the 'approved' opposition

>>2309878
Doesn't make it millenia old dipshit, especially since fighting started after modern germany formed.

>>2310327
I don't know what point you are trying to make here. This isn't a trivial conflict, it is ingrained in their very identities and religion. We don't need either side of that shit coming here thank you very much.

Islam is not tolerant.
jews are not to be trusted.

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>>2311317
>Ingrained in their very identities and religion
What religion are Palestinians mate?

CPB son or RCP daughter?

>>2311476
CPGB-PCC enby.

>>2311432
anyone who says such things should be pressed on what these values, principles and standards are.
>>2311484
nothing more british than pledging allegiance to our flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for y'all….

Waiting for a callback from the council for three hours now about sorting out a shelter accomodation today.

Why are they so fucking useless? No updates at all, the case has been sitting on their desk for nearly a week and this is the day of discharge so if they don't sort out any sort of accomodation by around 5 o'clock today I'm sleeping rough.

The council housing platform that they've got set up is more laughable as it's basically a bidding platform where you bid using UC and housing benefit against other claimants.

>>2311482
You could have just said CPGB-PCC tbh,

>>2311501
You live in a country of retards who have slashed local government spending to the bone for decades on end and you're surprised that you don't get contacted immediately, if at all?

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>>2311501
Lmao I looked it up. 28% less funding per person compared to 2010. You lot are utterly fucked.

>>2311554
What's even worse is that the charity member I'm liaising with on behalf of the council is a single 40 year old woman who still suffers from psychosis and won't stop giving me signals left right and centre.

The moment she puts an x at the end of one of her texts it's fucking on.

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https://www.reuters.com/world/northern-irish-rioters-attack-police-second-night-2025-06-10/
Northern Irish rioters attack police, torch houses for second night

>One Romanian resident told the Irish Times on Tuesday that she was putting a British flag on her front window in a bid to prevent being targeted. Another door had a British and Filipino flag with a message saying "Filipino lives here", a photograph in The Belfast Telegraph showed.


Lol.

>>2308301
It comes down to class. Is your friend prole or is he bourgeoisie? Chud is not a class position. You can rescue a prole from the right. The petty-bourgeoisie you really can't.

Racial violence and riots are becoming increasingly common, first Southport and now in NI.
People are really willing to go to prison, to commit violence against minorities, to defend bourgeois abstractions such as the "nationstate".
The very identity of which literally has no impact on their lives beyond a base degree of tribal self identification.
If people can get so violent so quickly over one or two utterly horrific crimes by someone they perceive as an other, then why can't they organise against the far more widespread crimes of the bourgeoisie?
Why don't they get so violent about how corporations and billionaires fuck them over?
What will it take to educate them on their own class interest?
Im not saying the left should respond in kind with it's own senseless violence.
But that we should at least be organised and educated enough to be capable of resistance when the time calls, and it seems right now we have almost no voice at all.
/rant

>>2311637
> What will it take to educate them on their own class interest?
You. The bourgeoisie will never educate the proles on the necessity of the overthrow of the bourgeoisie. Only we can do it.

>>2311637
I mean they aren’t really attacking minorities are they? They are burning cop cars and shit. Irish people really are retarded subhumans. They want to protest shit like immigrants but their targets are their own subhuman crackers.

>>2311434
who gives a fuck tbh
I would assume mostly muslim, some hardcore christians that bear little resemblance to the weak-tea version that is on death's door over here, and maybe a few others. They all think the holy land belongs to them and this feud is never going to end.

File: 1749650659495-0.png (2.15 MB, 1473x1337, ClipboardImage.png)

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>>2311649
>I mean they aren’t really attacking minorities are they? They are burning cop cars and shit. Irish people really are retarded subhumans. They want to protest shit like immigrants but their targets are their own subhuman crackers.
It's says they're burning people's houses now:
>>2311606

>>2311706
An isolated incident. I don’t doubt the individual minority will be targeted but that’s like one incident. Generally these people aren’t doing a real race war.

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>>2311606
>One house was burned out and a police officer vomited after leaving another in a different part of the town that rioters had attempted to set alight, the witness added.
Don't bongs just vomit everywhere all the time?

>>2311728
it's interesting, you've stereotyped 'bongs' and depicted them as being white people. You don't get to do that any more chuddy, you can't have your cake and eat it.

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>>2311740
I just searched British people vomiting and posted the first results. I would post BAME images that were from Britain.

File: 1749651907288.png (374.34 KB, 522x607, drwu.png)

>>2311758
hmmmmmm interesting, and those search results, you think are …. organic?

>>2311717
Wdym Loyalists were doing race war against irish catholics for a solid 30 years. If anyone wants a race war its them.

>>2311771
Law and Order SVU reference. Lol. Look I haven't put much thought into it. It was just a shitpost. I was originally just going to post how it was odd they just randomly mentioned this cop vomited, of course implying that maybe they inhaled something that made them vomit, but they only mentioned the vomiting as if that alone was news worthy. Then I thought a funnier way to say that would to play off your countrymen's reputation for public drunkeness and vomiting so I hit the search results and posted the first I saw. Now knowing how much the not including a diverse cast of Brits has caused implications of negative racial stereotyping of certain group. In the future I will spend more time digging through results until I can find a cast the represents the true diversity of Britain's vomiting public. Feel free to submit any that you feel will help that diversity for my next publication on the subject.

>>2311789
uber rolling out driverless taxis is a race war. People just can't get on with each other.

>>2311637
>First Southport
It didn't start in Southport, it started in Knowsley.
As for "educating them", you don't educate the proletariat; you organise them, win them material gains, then you reveal the nature of the capitalist system in that struggle. This is why liberalism fundamentally fails to deal with fascism, reaction, and vulgar ethnonationalism; because it relies on some belief that people are only violent reactionaries because they are "Misinformed".
Lots of Eastenders joined the BUF in the wake of Cable Street, most left a couple years later after the Communist PARty organised a rent strike there (they realised their landlords weren't jewish and who their real class enemy is). We need to clearly identify the class enemy, domestic and foreign, and organise people against it. Tenant Unionism is especially salient in this regard, but overall that is the role and purpose of the modern socialist.
Issue is that we should have done this since 15 years ago. It is possible we might just need to go through a phase of "stove-touching" when porkies like Rupert Lowe and Farage have the run of the show and continue to fuck over the working class.

>>2311878
Why do you think a crowd targeted a mosque after a christian rwandan born in Wales attack them? Who told them that muslims were responsible for a crime not even committed by them? Who has interest in blaming muslims for economic and social decay?

>>2311974
same energy

>>2311993
What's even the point at this stage. Let it wash over you mate. You won't feel better afterwards.

>>2312004
Who should they be angry at? Muslims for having nothing to fucking do with it?

>>2312005
am noy u feucken may

>>2312008
it's like during the filming of Alien (1979) where Ridley Scott made Segourney Weaver cry by shouting at her. In reality he was mad a john Hurt for being a thesbian wanklord but because of his protected high status he lashed out at Segourney, point is people are angry for a reason.

Anarchist son, LeftCom daughter, or MLM enby offspring?

>>2312023
I'd shoot myself for failing to raise non-retarded kids.

>>2312032
have you ever seen one of them crack a smile?

>>2312021
Hurt is based fuck Sigourney for being a mid rate actress who got lucky

>>2312044
I like both of them, lord rest his zombie bones

>>2312062
did they tell you to read uncle karl's big book of bullshit too?

>>2312130
Fucking washed elder millennial core, get up with the times grandad.

>>2312133
bit bourgeousie isn't he? Bit obvious, too mainstream for me

can anyone commit to naming one legitimate downside to migration? And not some snarky back-hander, an actual downside that you see as a problem.

>>2312155
>Oliver "Friend of the jews" Cromwell

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>>2312135
Boomer core.

>>2312165
Mass migration
Migration as a weapon
Migration as revenge
"Look at the fucking state of it" migration

>>2312170
I spose immigration is the term

>>2312155
He was just protecting the oppressed anglican settlers asylum seekers from being attacked by bigoted white Irish natives.

What's gwanin with the irish? they're trying to do pogroms or something?

>>2312412
these are the workers uprisings dumdum

Are you ready to die for Israel in Iran bros?

>a jew has been wronged
QUICKLY CHANGE THE LAW SO IT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN!!

>>2312170
mass migration isn't happening
they want no migration at all, they have messaged this already and starting to role it out
it's like arguing about "why do you support dinosaurs eating llamas" or some other nonsense irrelevant shit
>>2312202
>if the majority of a population do not want what is happening to happen
they majority are okay with mass amnesty, more so than mass deportations
>a foreigner may not undetstand the codes of conduct in a country and so may violate the law in different respect
they can't integrate but said wokely

>>2314782
This but for the Laken Riley Act

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>>2313803
Fuck that Starmer can send British Jews to die in their own war.

>>2314795
>mass migration isn't happening
immigration is happening en masse

>>2314841
Go cry about waymos

>>2314844
>stay mad
you really are just contrarians aren't you?

>>2314848
Anon. Did you forget the only reason you are on this site and in this thread is to contrarian-post through your mental deficiencies?

>>2314850
I'm here to make you uncomfortable.
You can call me whatever you like, just make sure you can back it up darling.

>>2312202
>All points indistinguishable from SocDem rhetoric and logic
Not a single Marxist in this thread I swear. Glad this acts as containment.

>>2314869
Eh, seems fitting-ish?

>>2314869
Drivers get obscene leniency yea, it's fucked up.

File: 1749720407776.mp4 (7.5 MB, 576x1280, IMG_5236.MP4)

Why do we give so much money to NI if thick loyalist cunts are just going to burn it.

>>2312202
>second is legitimacy. the claim of asylum for refugees has its conditions which may not be met. one may then claim to be a refugee, when instead being an "economic migrant" and so a false cause is given. this amounts to illegal or illegitimate immigration.
the refugee/economic migrant distinction is such a fucking meme.

want to leave because the economic system can't provide you enough food? economic refugee, just starve, subhuman!
want to leave because the government won't give you food? political refugee! completely different case! come on in!
(well, not really. our refugee system is set up as a kafkaesque nightmare. what if we made it so that you can only apply for refuge in britain, but if you enter britain illegally you're not eligible, and also "i'm entering to apply for refugee status" is not a valid reason for getting a visa? it's genius, then no matter how persecuted someone is, you've always got an out to tell them to fuck off - maybe with a little "doesn't apply to ukranians or hong kongers or other honorary aryans" rider.)

>>2314864
no issues go to a vote in this country.
this is a place where keir starmer, has-been will hutton, and the water companies are caught before the election colluding on ways to avoid nationalisation, only for basically nobody to comment on it, certainly no political consequences to result, and for hutton to publish the article shilling the "public benefit corporation" scam anyway

this is a managed democracy. the managers fucking love talking about immigration. keir starmer will spend all day talking about how he's going to stop the boats, smash the gangs, crack down on refugees, arrest everyone who fails the cricket test, send everyone who doesn't pass the one drop rule to st. helena, etc. nobody will believe him, of course, and then reform will ask why we don't just send all the orcs to papeete and invite the french to test another nuke on it. (can't use Trident, it hasn't passed a firing test in about 15 years lol.)

>>2314868
quote-mining marx is the most unmarxist thing one can do, assuming "marxist" means "in the tradition of marx" and not "LARPer pretending to be acting in that tradition"
(most are the latter)

>>2314897
it's not that i "support" economic migration, it's that i can't abide a nonsense distinction. "no refugees, no migrants" is a perfectly valid way of resolving my objection. (and without any real policy change!) it does mean, however, that as a politician you've got to accept you've got no interest in the universal dignity of man or basic human rights or anything like that - but this is, of course, true in any case. what sticks in my throat is seeing some cunt go out and talk like britain is a kind and welcoming country that's being put upon by all these foreign bastards, rather than a sociopathic shithole that'll do all it can to conclude that if you're trying to leave Uganda because you're gay, it's probably because you want to steal people's phones and sell them on ebay, and besides, does fucking men really make you gay? application rejected.

again: if a centrally planned economy refuses to feed you, that's "political persecution", but if a market economy can't-or-won't feed you (perhaps even due to political decisions like concentrating all investment in another region), that's nobody's fault. are you seriously telling me that's not an arbitrary distinction and that the latter should just suck it up?
let's not forget that actual policy - stuff more like "we can't let this person on the Taliban's to-kill list come to Britain because they saw British soldiers doing war crimes, and if they were in Britain they could be compelled to testify at a war-crimes trial, but they can't do that if they're dead, so we'll just refuse them refuge lol" - clearly has less than zero respect for "the struggle of refugees".


take what i have written. quote only "no refugees, no migrants", and look, you've suddenly transmuted me into the EDL. you can quickly translate exasperation with the lies and hypocrisies that come out after the death of liberal universalism into a celebration of that death. clever, eh? but i'm just some dickhead (all my friends are dickheads too), it's a bit harder with Marx, one of the best known thinkers on the planet.

imagine the smell

don't worry, there's another 1.8 billion where they came from. Who was it that said that? Lenin?(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

>>2314919
i bet you think you're really clever, don't you.
the policy is to let neither of them in. it's not "all or nothing" to think that, given this is the policy, this should be the stated policy. politicians should not pat themselves on the back for helping "real" refugees.
(uhh, hong kongers and ukranians, apparently.)
weird how when ukranians want to flee war, they're very welcome, but when sudanese or congolese want to do the same thing, uhh, they're clearly fleeing the economic consequences of war, that's different…

btw marx said i'm right:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/
>This remarkable anonymous work… is… celebrated… as the substance… is… self-evident.

>>2314928
>weird how when ukranians want to flee war, they're very welcome
the gubmint here didn't allow ukie refugees for at least the first year, too white and Christian

>>2314868
>the marxist point would be that immigration is a bourgepis conspiracy to lower national wages. should i have brought that up?
Marx at no point states that immigration is a "conspiracy", rather it is an inevitable outcome of systemic capitalist forces. Show me where Marx's solution to this is capitulation and collaboration with the bourgeoisie state in an effort to remove or stifle immigration, as opposed to the organizing of labour so as to make the question of wages a non-sequitor, and push the workers to revolution? When Engels speaks of the conditions of the English working class, none of his comments on the Irish are prescriptive in regards to doing away with them. On the contrary, Marx states openly thus:
<And most important of all! Every industrial and commercial centre in England now possesses a working class divided into two hostile camps, English proletarians and Irish proletarians. The ordinary English worker hates the Irish worker as a competitor who lowers his standard of life. In relation to the Irish worker he regards himself as a member of the ruling nation and consequently he becomes a tool of the English aristocrats and capitalists against Ireland, thus strengthening their domination over himself. He cherishes religious, social, and national prejudices against the Irish worker. His attitude towards him is much the same as that of the “poor whites” to the Negroes in the former slave states of the U.S.A.. The Irishman pays him back with interest in his own money. He sees in the English worker both the accomplice and the stupid tool of the English rulers in Ireland.
<This antagonism is artificially kept alive and intensified by the press, the pulpit, the comic papers, in short, by all the means at the disposal of the ruling classes. This antagonism is the secret of the impotence of the English working class, despite its organisation. It is the secret by which the capitalist class maintains its power. And the latter is quite aware of this.
<But the evil does not stop here. It continues across the ocean. The antagonism between Englishmen and Irishmen is the hidden basis of the conflict between the United States and England. It makes any honest and serious co-operation between the working classes of the two countries impossible. It enables the governments of both countries, whenever they think fit, to break the edge off the social conflict by their mutual bullying, and, in case of need, by war between the two countries.
<England, the metropolis of capital, the power which has up to now ruled the world market, is at present the most important country for the workers’ revolution, and moreover the only country in which the material conditions for this revolution have reached a certain degree of maturity. It is consequently the most important object of the International Working Men’s Association to hasten the social revolution in England. The sole means of hastening it is to make Ireland independent. Hence it is the task of the International everywhere to put the conflict between England and Ireland in the foreground, and everywhere to side openly with Ireland. It is the special task of the Central Council in London to make the English workers realise that for them the national emancipation of Ireland is not a question of abstract justice or humanitarian sentiment but the first condition of their own social emancipation.
Something you have conveniently left out from your quote mining.
>offering similar sentiments. to marx and engels then, there seems to be a ruling class interest in immigration, which leads to antagonisms in the working class.
is this "marxist" enough?
Critically, and which you continue to dodge and obfuscate, they do not fall into the double blackmail you so enthusiastically leap towards. They utterly reject the idea of the working class going hand and hand with the bourgeoisie state to take the "fight" to the immigrant worker. Rather, they understand that this is the failure of the English working class, that by refusing to understand the plight of the Irishman, and by being content in their station above him, they commit not only a betrayal to socialism but to themselves. They handcuff themselves wholly to the bourgeoisie, to their permissions and levers, and so neuter true working class gains wholly. Engels in his later works makes an additional point, that it is the "native" working class that constitutes the greater failure, as they associate themselves with the status of the bourgeoisie of the their country:
<The Jones business is most distasteful. He held a meeting here and the speech he made was entirely in the spirit of the new alliance. After that affair one might almost believe that the English proletarian movement in its old traditional Chartist form must perish utterly before it can evolve in a new and viable form. And yet it is not possible to foresee what the new form will look like. It seems to me, by the way, that there is in fact a connection between Jones’ new move, seen in conjunction with previous more or less successful attempts at such an alliance, and the fact that the English proletariat is actually becoming more and more bourgeois, so that the ultimate aim of this most bourgeois of all nations would appear to be the possession, alongside the bourgeoisie, of a bourgeois aristocracy and a bourgeois proletariat. In the case of a nation which exploits the entire world this is, of course, justified to some extent. Only a couple of thoroughly bad years might help here, but after the discoveries of gold these are no longer so easy to engineer. For the rest it is a complete mystery to me how the massive overproduction which caused the crisis has been absorbed; never before has such heavy flooding drained away so rapidly.
https://marxists.architexturez.net/archive/marx/works/1858/letters/58_10_07.htm

>>2314931
there are more people from Ukraine in this country than there are from Reading, Norwich, Bolton, Swindon, Southend, Oxford…
(and they're allowed to take their families too. weird.)

>>2314932
i never said they were opportunists. i said the idea that economic migration is opportunism is laughable.
again: if you're dying in a famine, is it opportunism to want to go somewhere with food? does that make you a bastard? is it morally right to just go "ha ha, too bad, so sad, die" because this is an economic problem and not a political one. (how, pray tell, does a marx-enjoyer draw a distinction between the economic and the political?)

marx personally agrees with me. he used dialectics to foresee my post and he clearly included his agreement, right there in the text:
>This remarkable anonymous work… is… celebrated… as the substance… is… self-evident.
there in the black and white. you can't argue with marx, mate, you've not got the balls.

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we train murderers

>>2314952
Everyone knows though.

>>2314949
the french are reduced to eating frogs and snails and other vermin, so yes, i should assume they're famished.

anyway, you see how i'm writing much more text than you? that's too obvious a tell that you're not really engaging in good faith. anything that doesn't neatly slot into telling you that you're right and that i'm going to join Reform or the CPB or whatever other gaggle of please-please-please-tell-me-my-prejudices-are-working-class losers your kokoro goes doki doki for is discarded. too obvious, not interesting.
(for the love of god do not "rectify" this with copy and pasted walls of quotes. that just makes it dull as well as obvious. only original text will do. you could probably slip chatGPT past people once or twice if you need filler.)

Greetings and fraternity!
Karl Marx

>>2314952
>murderers
There it is, the antisemitic blood libel trope yet again. You need to educate yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion


>>2314948
>lets not call it a "conspiracy", but a "plot" taken by the mutual interests of the ruling classes to lower wages in england.
Where are you reading this? The focus is not itself the lowering of wages in England, rather it is an inevitable outcome of the landlording across Ireland, with the exportation of labour being an outcome which the bourgeoisie seize upon.
>marx's point is that immigration into ireland comes from the aristocracy privatising land and lack of development. its not the capitalist bourgeoisie doing this, but the landed aristocracy, who benefit the bourgeoisie, by forcing immigration.
This is not the only reason, and the capitalist is not exempt. Marx makes the point that it is the bourgeoisie who firstly benefit from Ireland being turned into a pasture, and who secondly benefit from immigration after the fact. Marx did not separate the actions of the aristocracy from that of the bourgeoisie; after all, land privatized for who?
>this is otherwise to say that the irish must kick out the landed aristocracy and so to cultivate their own national labour force. or as you quote:
No, it does not. Marx is clear that the Irish and English working class must work together, he is not pushing for a purely nationalist program, and rejects such in his critiques of Fenian policy. Clearly in the quote it is stated:
<It is the special task of the Central Council in London to make the English workers realise that for them the national emancipation of Ireland is not a question of abstract justice or humanitarian sentiment but the first condition of their own social emancipation."
The working class of England, in the context of English colonial activity, is stripped of it's revolutionary potential. It perceives itself in a privileged position above the Irish workers, obtains material benefits from the dominion of England over Ireland, and as Engels alludes to, is made more "bourgeois" because of it. Only by the liberation of Ireland can the English working class be made to understand their place as working class proletarians, and unite with their fellow Irish workers.
>this is to imply as i put it, that immigration means being forced into england, while irish independence means remigration.
There is nothing in the quote that implies remigration, only national emancipation. I challenge you to find a clear statement made by either for a program of Irish remigration, particularly in terms of supporting the bourgeoisie state in anti-immigration policy.
>they want to undo the conditions which cause immigration in the first place. but why? because immigration lowers national wages.
No, it's more poignant then something so shallow. It's because the English working class will continually exist in a state of reaction and bourgeoisie alliance so long as they benefit from the colonization of Ireland and are capable of perceiving themselves above the Irish worker. And the wage is only one part, a Marxist program is not merely the acceptance of higher wages, but rather the rejection of wage labour outright. Higher wages are only demanded with the understanding that doing so brings the proletariat in further conflict with the bourgeoisie.

>>2314962
The Protocols of The Elders of Zion wasn't even written by Jews. It was fabricated by the antisemitic Tsarist secret police to help justify pogroms against the Jewish people of the Russian Empire. Everything in that book is fantasy written by proto-nazis.

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>>2314949
I don't understand why a Marxist would place economic immiseration below political or environmental immiseration. If someone migrates from worse economic opportunities to better ones, what exactly makes this less "valid" then migration from worse political or environmental conditions (which are connected to the economic regardless)? What does it matter from what country either? Are we nationalists? Do we possess some loyalty to a given state or nation? Do we support some form of global apartied in one form or another? Why would I not just oppose capitalism, rather than try and make handshakes with the bourgeoisie that in the end only compromise the working class as a whole?

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>>2315002
Meant add this.

>>2314984
>protoctols of elders of zion
Agreed but what does this have to do with the IDF, in your eyes, not being murders? This is a sectarian discussion more than an ethnic one. We are discussing the Israeli fist, also known as the Israeli Defense Forces, who on the regular slaughter men, women, and children, nothing to do with Judaism.

>>2314960
>>2314984
Wtf are you talking about? They're training murderers because the IDF are murderers.

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>>2314869
>drug driving
<Asolo-Ogugua, of Southwark, south-east London, failed a drug test at the scene, having taken cannabis the night before.

>A bus driver who killed a nine-year-old girl riding her bike on the pavement having fallen asleep at the wheel with drugs in his system has been jailed for four years.


As a guy who smokes weed everyday, these two things are completely unrelated.

>>2315074
This is the issue with drug testing for weed, it stays in your system long after the high has worn off

>>2315078
He could also be lying about when he smoked it, but still, it doesn't cause narcolepsy like that. Frankly I think it is more stimulating. You know how people say it makes you paranoid, that's because it makes you hyperaware of things.

>>2315081
Like with the paranoia, I mean I find after I smoke some weed and I'm driving, I'll be like:
>Wait why the fuck am I speeding?
>Why am I breaking any traffic rules at all?
>What advantage am I getting for the risk?

>>2307088
Cromwell was unironically the most progressive Brit to ever live and closer to Marxism than leftists today - Per Marx

>>2315074
maybe he was doing too many long shifts and sleep deprived.

>>2315084
except for Gerard Winstanley of course

>>2315089
Not all drugs are the same. Caffeine is a drug. Adderall is a drug.

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>>2315085
Yeah, sleep deprivation is the obvious factor. People don't normally fall asleep at the wheel during daytime. I've only ever gotten highway hypnosis at night. Doing crazy long 8 hour drives solo. When you're out in the countryside and everything is literally pitch black except for the little patch on the road in front of you. It puts your ass to sleep. Got to get out and walk around like the pic says.

>>2315107
If anything it improves it. It doesn't take a whole lot of cognition to drive, you just have to pay attention and follow the rules. They can almost can make robots do it now.

>>2315084
he let them clear the diggers off st. george's hill, he was a genocidal dickhead who doomed socialism and he's burning in hell for killing our legitimate king.

>>2315115
What kind of logic is that? I said it doesn't impair driving and in some ways can make you drive better and more cautiously. Caffeine can also make you a better driver under certain circumstances wouldn't you say? It's better to be alert than drowsy. But to ask whether I recommend everyone drink caffeine before driving would be a ridiculous question.

>>2315120
I already gave you an analogy that you completely ignored. You're fucking retarded. Go reread the reply.

>>2315123
> Caffeine can also make you a better driver under certain circumstances wouldn't you say? It's better to be alert than drowsy. But to ask whether I recommend everyone drink caffeine before driving would be a ridiculous question.
< Caffeine can also make you a better driver under certain circumstances wouldn't you say? It's better to be alert than drowsy. But to ask whether I recommend everyone drink caffeine before driving would be a ridiculous question.

>>2315127
>would you be happier with a stoned or sober bus driver?
I'd be happy with either depending on their driving ability and other factors. Like I said before, smoking weed doesn't make you fall asleep behind the wheel in the middle of the daytime in a city. That's a completely unrelated matter that could happen if the guy smoke weed or not. I don't know, how do you do drowsiness checks on your drivers?

>>2315129
>Martin Asolo-Agogua, 23, had been up all night at a social event when he ploughed into Ada Bicakci and her five-year-old brother.
So there you go. He just needed more stims and he would've been able to stay awake for his shift.

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>>2315136
Just a dexy.

>>2315134
Weed isn’t a downer or an upper, it’s a cannabinoid, which has its own effects that are separate and sometimes mildly psychedelic

>>2314860
>I'm here to make you uncomfortable.
topkek. Is that what you tell yourself?
What a sorry indictment of the National Health Service.

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>>2315086
In this house the only Winstanley we winStan is Asa.

>>2315215
People who take personal offense at being wrong like this are the worst people in the world.

>>2315365
this tbh

>>2314922
The gloating, delighted reactions to the devastating crash of Air India Flight 171 in Ahmedabad are exactly what Israelis experienced after October 7. Who are these nasty people?

India and Israel share the same evil enemies, and they should work together to defeat them.🇮🇳🇮🇱

>>2315307
Jesus wept

>>2315071
I can

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>>2315307
It's a hard job but someone has to do it.

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>Catholic Filipinos are now displaying UVF flags and protestant symbolism to deter the combined Irishman-Ulsterman rioters who have put their differences aside to burn down the houses of Romanians (but not actual Romanian Romanians - the gypsy ones)
We are reaching levels of sectarianism previously thought impossible. How long until Starmer causes some kind of sectarian singularity event due to the sheer absurdity of it all?

>>2316375
There is a funny (and by funny I mean horrific) thing that catholic Czechs and Poles are posting loyalist shit for the same reasons.
Also there are little to no catholic irish taking part in this. That myth has been made up by the irish far right to justify their support for it.

It's all so tiring…

>>2315034
>just say you support economic migration and your pathos resolves itself into intelligibility.
Can you say where I support or oppose economic migration? It simply is under capitalism, and the solution to the issues of the working class is to unite workers, not put by working class in a double blackmail.
>i suppose not, mrs. thatcher
Where did I state society does not exist?
>that is the ultimate outcome which benefits the english bourgeoisie
Let's assume this, why then is the solution in your mind to collaborate with the bourgeoisie in anti-immigration policy? All you have done is put the working class in a permanent bind where they are dependent on said bourgeoisie for said policy, while placing the working class in an ineffectual conflict against immigrant workers that is unresolvable and distrationary.
must work together…
>to bring irish independence! that is the conclusion, which he begins his premise with.
For what reason? He is not arguing Irish independence for the sake of Irish independence, he make this clear in vast majority of his works on the Irish question. As he ends his letter:
<You have wide field in America for work along the same lines. A coalition of the German workers with the Irish workers (and of course also with the English and American workers who are prepared to accede to it) is the greatest achievement you could bring about now. This must be done in the name of the International. The social significance of the Irish question must be made clear.
Marx has clearly stated in all his works the need for international cooperation of the workers and the need for unity and revolution against the bourgeoisie. Can you show me where his policy of unity is only in regards to national liberation, and nothing more?
>they are in an objectively superior position. thats why the irish lower wages, to bring an equality of decriptude, for which there is antagonism. the english are not merely driven by colonial prejudice, but diminishing returns on labour.
Marc and Engels, especially in their later works, have no sympathy for this idea that the English working class is the greater victim in this. The English working class is at every opportunity given the option of organizing labour, which would in turn prevent any possible lowering of wages among either the English or Irish. Instead, their "bourgified" colonial position, in a way similar to maybe an Israeli, causes and caused them to largely resist revolution due to the material benefits they received and the status they held over the Irish. Even if they suffered a reduction in wage (which Engels noted was largely untrue as colonialism and imperialism in Ireland ramped up), the national benefits made up for it in a way that unconsciously mellowed them towards the bourgeoisie line.
>which means the irish living in ireland rather than being forced into england, no?
Where does it say this? Would mass exodus perhaps stop? Yes, but the modern equivalent of that would be an end to western imperialism abroad, and Europes and the United States support of it thereof. It does not equal, however, measures to collaborate with the bourgeoisie to obstruct and suppress migrants. There is no equivocating the two.
>national emancipation for whom!? people who DONT live in ireland?
National emancipation for Ireland, which both the local and migrant worker must unite to achieve within England. Having done so, and the yoke of England thrown off, the local and migrant worker are now free to take the fight to the English bourgeoisie itself, with Ireland no longer capable of being used to placate and mollify the English proletariat by means of material benefit or economic caste.
>according to marx and engels, the irish worker lowers the standard of living for the english. this attitude is then based in material reality.
Let's assume this, despite Engels correcting himself on this and not in that the English worker benefits greatly from the imperialism of the British Empire, creating a dynamic of there only being liberal radical and conservatives. As he states:
<You ask me what the English workers think about colonial policy. Well, exactly the same as they think about politics in general: the same as what the bourgeois think. There is no workers' party here, there are only Conservatives and Liberal-Radicals, and the workers gaily share the feast of England's monopoly of the world market and the colonies. In my opinion the colonies proper, i.e., the countries occupied by a European population, Canada, the Cape, Australia, will all become independent; on the other hand the countries inhabited by a native population, which are simply subjugated, India, Algiers, the Dutch, Portuguese and Spanish possessions, must be taken over for the time being by the proletariat and led as rapidly as possible towards independence.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1882/letters/82_09_12.htm
Even assuming that Irish worker reduces the wages of the English worker, it is clear that the path forward is anti-imperialism, unionization, and opposition to the bourgeoisie. If the solution that Marx and Engels believed in was bourgeoisie collaboration to obstruct and deport the migrant, surely they would have clearly prescribed it? Surely Lenin would have clearly stated as such, having built upon them? The answer is that in no point in history has immigration "oppostion" ever produced a revolutionary proletariet, and has only ever delivered the "local" worker into the hands of the bourgeoisie, who now dominates him by lever. All while said laws mean to make the migrants position worse, to make his status questionable, and so more easily abused and exploited with the country by said bourgeoisie. It leads nowhere but the same old system, buy under levers and double blackmail.
>which are better, higher or lower wages?
Higher wages are something to "strive" for politically, but they are not the goal or the end point, merely a way to put the working class in direct confrontation with the bourgeoisie. If "higher wages" were simply all we demanded, rather then worker emancipation, we are easily the victim and perpetuator of opportunism and talism. Why not argue that half the population should be forced to stay home? Why not make the case that all people of a given orientation, race, or belief, should be rounded up and "dealt with", so as to have the remaining sum benefit from "higher wages" by means of a lower quantity of labour? It is a pit, and is shown in the inevitable ineptitude of all "yellow" unions.
>if higher wages, should the causes of lower wages be stamped out?
Not if it means the bodies of the proletariat fighting over one another in an ineffectual struggle towards revolutionary stagnation and oblivion. The cause is capitalism and the bourgeoisie, distractions from this only put power in the hands of the bourgeoisie once again. "Pro"-immigration and "anti"-immigration rhetoric live in a false dichotomy, as both fail to tackle the main issue and place the bourgeoisie at the levers of control. The liberal "pro"-immigration crowd may exploit immigrant labour, but nothing else has allowed the deepest levels of that exploitation then "anti"-immigration policy, which gives the bourgeoisie the weapons, by visa or direct threat, to chain the migrant worker into accepting worse and worse conditions, and has the local worker cheer for such out of fear of the migrant and associate himself with the pedestal of the bourgeoisie. All while the rate of profit continues to lower regardless, which in turn will always inevitably apply pressure to wages.

>>2316030
This reminds me in Four Lions at the end when Benedict cucumber pops up as the muslim convert cop

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>>2316551
Lel. That film is 10/10.

Brit life now

>>2316629
>>>/ISG/

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He kept a stiff upper lip. Bongs are truly Unbreakable.

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>>2316848
Shit, he's an Ajin.
Time to hide bro, i hope you get good at killing cops.

the dark truth is that by 2035 you will be nostalgic for neoliberalism. you will look back at Gordon Brown as a what-could-have-been, like Callaghan in 1976, where contemporary observers already knew in some way that they were the handmaidens of death. if only Gordon had moved an inch left, if only he'd pulled off a coalition of absolutely everyone in 2010… Blair is too tainted by war-crimes to be a Wilson figure, a neoliberal era entirely without heroes, and still, what comes next will be worse.

one wonders: will the left stay shadow-boxing the corpse, insisting that whatever comes next is really just neoliberalism, continuing to pray they can revive the postwar consensus, or will they take a step forward and imagine they can revive the corpse of neoliberalism against post-neoliberal nightmares?

either way, bleak bleak bleak.

>>2318849
blair is astroturfed incredibly hard by a press and media class who love him and still not really liked even as 2000s nostalgia is on the rise. (though i wouldn't rule out left opinion softening. it's easy to see and document just how awful starmer is, it's easy to fall for the lies that Blair was a social liberal and liberalizer, rather than a comical bigot.)

i will confess, as self criticism, that (without diminishing my hate for him one iota) i catch myself thinking "at least blair…" a lot these days. at least blair had some kind of vision, even if it changed throughout his term. at least blair could speak… if not normally, than like tony blair, not like an unloved substitute teacher. at least blair, in his inhuman way, had human flaws: that reflexive little smirk that always dug him out of trouble in the 1990s, emerging now as he unsuccessfully tries to defend himself from killing a million iraqis. the trick that doesn't work anymore. starmer's got none of that, a man interesting only for the study of how a system picks such a complete and utter loser.

fortunately for continued loathing of blair, he didn't die some time before chilcot came out. if he'd walked out in front of a bus in 2011 he'd have become a great what-if. if he'd walked out in front of a bus in 2016, he'd have been a reviled war criminal with a history of advising dictators for cash, "but still…", but here we are in 2025 he's still with us, still demanding we hand the NHS over to ChatGPT, drill-baby-drill and bugger the climate, and ID cards, oh how baby really wants his fucking ID cards, and because of that he just looks ridiculous. a has been. a rich, corrupt, out of touch old man with a bad haircut. what more can you say?

i would summarize that in the future, we may pine for pre-9/11 market liberal UN responsibility-to-protect deregulatory euro-optimist globalist utopia, "britain as a young country" etc of the early Blair era (with all the caveats and warts removed), but i don't think anyone but fascists will care for post-9/11 illegal oil war security theater bollocks or its successor, the 2012 olympics "walked away from the car crash apparently fine only to suddenly fall over dead" @soverybritish liberalism.

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I miss Britpop

i saw Leninhat handing out CPBG-ML leaflets in manchester the other day

Reminder that a lot of British Jews have family in Israel who are currently being subjected to missile attacks from the Iranian regime lmao.

>>2318599
>so you dont support it then? give a clear answer instead of this circular rhetoric. you are like a politician.
This is like asking what side I support in WW1, or if I support conservative liberal policy or social liberal policy. It's like asking if I support privatized prisons or murderers on the street, or if I support the US intervention or ISIS beheadings. It's a false dichotomy, the entire struggle of being pro- one bourgeoisie camp or anti- the other is playing into both. Pro-immigration policy completely ignores the reality of why that immigration exists while also maintaining systems that supress migrant labour, while anti-immigration policy provides the tools to suppress said migrants and control the flow in a way which benefits the bourgeoise. Notice how it's never wealthy migrants which suffer in such circumstances, rather only the poorest who cannot enter by standard means.
>tell me this, what is a society? it is at least something exclusive; something which begins by boundaries. your point is that we shouldnt believe in borders because thats apartheid (you should leave your front door open then, since that is creating barriers from the world). you support the global movements of capital over the local concerns of labour.
Not that we shouldn't "believe" in borders, believe has nothing to do with their existence. Borders are simply what they are in the context of capitalist society, and in that context they are fundamentally a system of apartheid. What is the difference, in a global context, from the US and Europe engaging in imperialism in other nations, while said migrants end up at their walls seeking escape or better opportunities, and the domestic apartheid of nations like Israel? One is seemingly more direct, but when zoomed out, it is clear that the benefits of the west are walled off from those they exploited. Or are said people leaving for no reason in particular? You have once again created a false dichotomy; you treat migrants as a global movement of capital, and the local population as labour. But those migrants are as much labour as the local population, there use in capital no different then the local population in the mechanisms of capital itself. This dichotomy is one of favoritism, because like a social democrat, you perceive the issues of labour as merely a national question, only solved nationally by capitalist reform, as opposed to an international question in an international system, which requires the unity of a global proletariet against a global bourgeoisie.
>the bourgeoisie are pro-immigration. the unheard masses are anti-immigration. thats why any critic is immediately smeared by bourgeois spokespersons.
The bourgeoisie are both, because the system necessitates both. It's ignorant to argue that there are no bourgeoisie that advocate for anti-immigrant policy, otherwise there would be no such policy argued for in government. What the masses have come to believe has little to do with the truth, otherwise you or I would be liberals, adopting a liberal framework of history and society, as this is what the masses believe. We are not tailists, we state clearly and openly the analysis available to us, and analysis built upon from Marx to Lenin to the various theorists of today who resist the cries of opportunists and "modernizers".

This is also historically ignorant and shows either youth or amnesia. When Europe and the various European bourgeoisie paid various Middle Eastern leaders in the 2000s to stop refugees from their wars in third world from crossing into the West, had them disappeared and jailed, was this a case of the bourgeoisie being "pro-immigration"? Was it pro-immigration when the various conservative and liberal parties of Europe, funded massively by the national bourgeoisie, stripped visas, denied asylum, and tightened up the borders during said conflicts? Is it pro-immigration when the various so called "pro-immigrant" parties of today use the same visa laws passed by "anti-immigrant" parties to string along immigrants and use their labour while under threat of deportation or expiration? Or do you only investigate history when convenient?
>inter-nationalism entails nations cooperating.
Internationalism is both, as nations are not limited to states. Internationalism, as used by both Marx and Lenin, entails workers standing beside the struggle of other workers for emancipation, regardless of the origin of said workers.
>perhaps you fail to grasp the idea in the text that the lowering of the value of wages comes from the lowering of the standard of life itself. what good do higher wages offer if they are still worth less?
The standard of life in the West steadily increased at the time, as Marx and Engels both noted later how colonialism provided a higher standard for the English workers that mollified him. Wages will always be worth less in the long run with the falling rate of profit, and with general price increases. Your statement makes no sense as well, as the lowering of the standard of living generally increases the purchasing power of the wage, so long as the wage itself stays the same. The low cost of places which maintain a low standard of living is why imperialism is so lucrative, the purchasing power of the imperialist bourgeoisie is so much higher and the potential rate of profit so much greater. The issue is that generally wages in places with a low standard of living are pushed low by the bourgeoisie as they take advantage of the lower cost of reproduction, not that a low standard of living creates low wages.
>the english working class suffer from the "savagery" of the irishman himself. that is expressed very clearly. and its funny that you are such a vulgar economist in this regard, that you think more money means more value.
Where did I say more money equals more value? I use value as Marx uses it, not in whatever strange liberal way you are using it. Value is the socially necessary labour time around which the price of something fluctuates, and I did not bring that up. Nor did I bring up use-value.
>why is it the englishman's responsibility to correct the disposition of the irishman, and why does he have to suffer the evils of his class enemy in such a way? now, an irishman in ireland poses no antagonism; this is marx's meaning. if there is an irish nation itself, there may be irish labour, rather than merely immigrant labour.
The Irishman is in no way the class enemy of the English worker, Marx and Engels state no such thing. The idea the proletariat is the class enemy of the proletariat is absurd and backwards. You are projecting your existing disposition against migrants onto Marx himself, as nowhere does he state that the working class struggle is only possible by ensuring that the Irishman is sent back to Ireland, that the Irishman constitutes some "antagonism". He and Engels later works are clear, that it is the failure of the English working class and it's incapabililty to work with the Irishman by means of its colonial "benefits" that turns any potential for revolutionary sentiment into mere radical liberalism or conservatism. Marx and Engels are relatively lax on the Irish migrant, particularly later on. Even when they see him as culturally backwards, they understand that as a consequence of his position, and that they are less "guilty" of revolutionary ineptitude and reactionary bourgeoisie sympathizing then many English workingman organizations. It's why they sympathized heavily with Fenian movement, and praised the revolutionary gall of the Irishman and the worker unity they pushed for. As Engels states in 1872:
<The Irish, who represent the most revolutionary element of the population, were not men to display such weakness. The committee unanimously decided to act as if it did not know of the existence of this regulation and to hold their meeting in defiance of the government’s decree.
<This is the first time an Irish demonstration has been held in Hyde Park; it was very successful and even the London bourgeois press cannot deny this. It is also the first time the English and Irish sections of our population have united in friendship. These two elements of the working class, whose enmity towards each other was so much in the interests of the government and wealthy classes, are now offering one another the hand of friendship; this gratifying fact is due principally to the influence of the last General Council of the International,[307] which has always directed all its efforts to unite the workers of both peoples on a basis of complete equality. This meeting, of the 3rd November, will usher in a new era in the history of London’s working-class movement.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/11/17.htm#n307

Now where in this do they ask the English proletariat to collaborate with the bourgeoisie, to argue for bourgeoisie policy, and state revolution to only be possible with the removal of the Irish migrant?
>he says the wage is objectively lowered in value by english labour's share woth the irishman. you are making shit up now.
He states when discussing the bourgeoisification of the English working class that the benefits of colonialism has created a scenario where the monetary status of the English working class has mollified them. How would that be possible if their wages were perpetually in the gutter due to the Irishman?
>so national liberation for ireland doesnt actually apply to irishmen? good to know. you fail to answer this in the subsequent paragraph also. national liberation undoes the need for irish immigration, therefore reversing the movement of labour.
National liberation may very well reduce migration, I never contested this. This does not "reverse" the movement of labour however. The Irishman in England, who have built lives and made generations upon the island, will not suddenly all disappear from it. When I speak of equivocation, I mean in terms of supporting and collaborating with the bourgeoisie to fight against the migrant laborer. This is not at all equivalent to fighting for the national liberation of Ireland.
>yes… and? i dont deny this, do i?
You do, by means of advocacy for bourgeoisie collaboration and support for anti-migrant policies, playing into the manufactured false dicotomy of the bourgeoisie. If you truely wished to get to the heart of it, you would advocate for anti-imperialism with the migrant, not ineffectually fight against the migrant on behalf of bourgeoisie policy.
>marx and engels want to approach the cause of immigration itself. that is their systematic critique. its like when people say that there sould be no refugees in the west if it wasnt for the wars caused by the west itself; therefore, the influx of refugees and economic migrants must be an effect from a prior cause. marx and engels oppose the cause, and subsequent effect.
They oppose the cause, but do not not care for "addressing" the effect, as the effect is already here. It is inept and ineffective to try and "fight" the migrant, as the migrant is not the enemy. Their larger analysis is that of capitalism, immigration is just one part of that, and not even the most important part to them. They are not making an analysis of capitalism so that they can better fight immigration, rather they make an analysis of immigration in their larger analysis of capitalism, noting it as an inevitable by product. It's like saying that they analyze capitalism so as to prevent the immiseration proletariat, so that the proletariet can continue as proles, but wealthier. It misses the depth of their analysis and makes it social democrat hogwash.
>and allowing millions of foreigners into his country which lower the standard of living and social contract is a "revolutionary" alternative?
Who stated this to be a "revolutionary" alternative? I am not like you, I do not buy into or support the false dichotomy you enthusiastically indulge in. The foreigners are here, now what will you do? Will you work with them against capital, or will you ineffectually fight them into oblivion?
>marx and engels call this alternative a bourgeois plot set out by the aristocracy and bourgeoisie to gain more power. are you from the school of thought that if workers dont do what you like, they should be punished?
Again, it's not a plot, it just is. It's a consequence of their actions elsewhere, and capitalism abhores to waste and opportunity to profit. It's no different than when the bourgeoisie creates the conditions for homelessness by landlording and retail speculation, then profit again from said reserve army of labour. Will you then work with the homeless, or support the bourgeoisie who once again profit in the removal of them? I'm not for "punishing" the working class, but I am not a tailist or an opportunist. Unlike you, my career is that of a tradesman. I am as critical of my colleagues as I am of you, because I do not patronizingly treat them like children whom exist to be appeased as opposed to being helped, even when that help is a bitter medicine and not a sweet.
>more pussyfooting and evasion. im fatigued in talking to people like you.
In no way am I pussyfooting, I stated clearly the traditional Marxist position. You provide false dichotomies, and argue in terms that would only satisfy a social democrat. Address what I stated, because it is universally applicable beyond your hyper focus on migrants. If higher wages, as opposed to workers emancipation, is our focus, our greater "good", why not remove woman from the workforce? Why not liquidate every queer and non-white, and give the sum benefit to the white working class, who no longer have to compete with them? Why not support colonial policy, and have the slithering bourgeoisie "labour" governments give some portion of the gains to the social "good", even directly into the pockets of the worker themselves? Why not support every yellow union, every manner of program and labour cutter, every liberal that screams of the "middle class"? Is this a fight against capitalism, or to line your pockets, now and into the future, at the expense of all else?
>do you think im avoiding the responsibility of the bourgeoisie in this? how am i bourgeois when i am blaming the bourgeoisie for causing such chaos?
You are bourgeoisie because your analysis and reasoning is bourgeoisie, and because you happily make demand and advocate a program to ally with one imperial bourgeoisie "camp" against the other, to the benefit of both. You do not work with the cards dealt to fight against the bourgeoisie, rather you opportunistically work with them under the illusion of one day obtaining better cards, and not even to fight for revolution, but to better benefit yourself. And if you come to respond by stating in some fashion:
<No, I am revolutionary! I do fight for the end capitalism!
Then how brittle this must be, when you can't even swallow your own shallow particularism to work with the migrant against the oppressor of you both.

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Starmer has to go.

Google Arthur McBride.

>>2320677
Wow, that's crazy! I just saw him the other day too protesting Star Wars: Andor in Pontybridd. It looked like he had just gotten into a fistfight with SWP lickspittles.


>>2320640
Astroturfed nonsense, the Blairism of music.

>>2322631
Front left will make it. He is cut out to own a kebab shop, got the hair down pat already just needs some black glove.

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>>2322631
>do you know the difference between empathy and sympathy? as i have already expressed, i have empathy for economic migrants, but not sympathy. that is to say, i understand their position, but i cant support it. if they are caught, justice has inevitably caught up to them, like with any criminal. what is the alternative? supporting economic migration, which you apparently refuse to do, so you are overtaken by all sides.
I care little if you "support" the reality of economic migrants, or your meaningless distinction between empathy or sympathy (which is merely a difference of understanding or pity), what I care for is your enthusiastic support of the bourgeoisie and their treatment of migrants and your delusional faith in liberal "justice". You refuse to understand my rejection of both positions, and that is to your own detriment. It's patently clear that both positions, that of pro-immigrant liberals speaking "highly" of migration in terms of filling undesirable jobs or of adding to the "economy", and that of anti-immigrant liberals who place the working class in conflict among itself so as to exploit both, are not that of a Marxist. I care little if that means I'm "overtaken" in this, if both paths are to a final ruin for the working class and chains both migrant and local to the fate of capitalism.
>except that they will be more willing to accept lower wages, which is the plot of capital in its war against labour. did you see that trump is giving exception to low-paid migrants on farms in the US? the bourgeoisie actively support illegal immigration because it facilitates low wages, as a general trend - the same way marx and engels saw it in the 19th century.
Again, less a plot, and more not letting even the consequences of their actions be a missed opportunity for profit. You are making my argument for me as well, which is that anti-immigration rhetoric is ineffectual, it merely provides the tools to further exploit migrants by the visa and the "whip", and places the working class a whole into the hands of the bourgeoisie and their levers of control. Therefore, the only path forward that isn't ineptly allying oneself with the bourgeoisie in anti-immigrant policy, is to by necessity ally with the migrant and turn what the bourgeoisie would try to take advantage of against it. By uniting labour, by revolutionary union or otherwise, the bourgeoisie is stripped of its power to pit one worker against another, to even utilize a difference in wage. In an ironic twist, the emancipation of the migrant is the emancipation of the local worker, as when the migrant is provided the same and is incapable of being leveraged against, the bourgeoisie loses any possibility of leveraging against the local worker as well.
>YES. that is the entire point of importing immigrants. to further exploit labour.
So you agree, bourgeoisie anti-immigration policy is ineffective and only exists in codependency with pro-immigrant policy, and that it traps the working class into a meaningless struggle of worker against worker?
>what defines a nation, then?
You can Google this, a nation is a certain self-identifying collective of people who share some degree of features. The nation-state is a development out of this, with the state being based upon a certain nation or nations.
>in SPITE of its devaluation
You can't argue for "devaluation" when that devaluation has no real observable effect in regards to what we are discussing.
>😂😂 this is how i know youre ignorant. the lowering of the value of commodities to marx is in direct proportion to the output of use-values (i.e. "wealth"), so a lower rate of profit means more wealth (or as adam smith says, the rate of profit is highest in poor countries and lowest in rich countries).
You were discussing buying power and wages. Wages in the country with the lowering rate of profit, ignoring all else, will inevitably necessitate the lowering of wages and the increase of "real prices" in relation to those wages. The prices may seemingly go down or even remain the same, but the capacity for the proletariat to purchase said goods in a capacity which maintains capitalist production will decrease, which will in turn push the bourgeoisie to counter this by lowering wages or laying off workers. Wealth has nothing to do with it, and this does not also stop spikes in prices while wages remain low.
>profit is antithetical to the rate of wages, since it is an extraction from potential wages. also, what trend makes prices go up except a greater rate of profit from a lower rate of production? you are describing opposite trends. a lower value means a lower price.
Its relative real prices that increase. The bourgeoisie will also attempt price increases to offset and counter the falling rate of profit, same with wage reduction and layoffs.
>marx and engels say the opposite, or do you think value is determined by rate of wages? the poorest areas are typically the least productive - thats how it goes.
Where does Marx and Engles states the opposite? Wages are the cost to reproduce the worker.
>your argument is that the standard of living drops because the entitled english working class dont fight for higher wages -
I didn't say this, not in regards to how you refer to a drop in the standard of living relative to migrants.
>i say that this is immaterial to the value of the wage, which is not determined by its quantity, but its purchasing power.
And again, your argument about purchasing power in nonsensical. A drop in the standard of living doesn't necessitate a reduction in the purchasing power of the wage, assuming the wage and prices stay the same.
>interpret this for me:
<As to the Irish question….The way I shall put forward the matter next Tuesday is this: that quite apart from all phrases about "international" and "humane" justice for Ireland – which are to be taken for granted in the International Council – it is in the direct and absolute interest of the English working class to get rid of their present connection with Ireland. And this is my most complete conviction, and for reasons which in part I cannot tell the English workers themselves. For a long time I believed that it would be possible to overthrow the Irish regime by English working class ascendancy. I always expressed this point of view in the New York Tribune. Deeper study has now convinced me of the opposite. The English working class will never accomplish anything before it has got rid of Ireland. The lever must be applied in Ireland. That is why the Irish question is so important for the social movement in general.
I don't understand why you thought this was an argument, in no place does he state the need to send back the Irishman, only the need to free Ireland from England. This is done by both the Irish and English workers in Ireland, and the Irish and English workers in England. It's similar in prescription to what Lenin states workers in imperialist countries must do, and he too did not prescribe fighting against migrants.
>so your claim is contradictory to what has been stated, that the irish did not lower wages? or that the english working class ought to suffer with a proportional loss in wages to house the irishman?
I'm saying that the later works of Engels and Marx show that this is in fact the opposite, in regards to the particular situation of the English and Irish as things developed.
>why not? they were only forced out of their land because of its exploitation in the first place. this is the same issue of refugees. once war has ended, will they be returning home? if not, then they were never temporary guests, but potential settlers.
They aren't "settlers", you know the conotation of that term. People make lives in the places they move to. Some may go back, but many may not. Jamaicans moved into England before independence, but they didn't all leave after Jamaica gained it. Should they all be forced out?
>then i naturally ask you if these means one should be "pro" migration, and you refuse to answer it. thats why your charge against me is ineffectual, since you have no actual position.
I do have one, that of the traditional Marxist position, of revolutionary unionization (and not yellow) unionization, and the unity of migrant and worker against the antagonizing methods of bourgeoisie. I reject the false liberal dicotomy, and work within conditions as they are against capitalism. I do not advocate "support" for the liberals of either camp, who exploit the worker either way by co-dependent means. Not a future of migrants as "toilet cleaners" or a future of migrants as manufactured "enemy", but a future in which the migrant is treated like me, paid like me, and is seen as worker like me. A future where neither of our fates are placed in the hands of bourgeoisie, but where we as a class take our fate into our own hands. The alternative is a mass of bodies, eternally heaped upon on another is a cycle of manufactured conflict until the day of our oblivion.
>i cant do anything since its the ruling class who brought them here
You can do something, and you make my point. They are already here, that is something you can do nothing of. So what is the path forward? The answer is obvious, to work with them.
>how do i work with the homeless when all they want is my money? they have no political potential. also, i have helped homeless people, but then they ended up dying anyway. its not my job.
If you can't even tolerate the idea of trying to work with the reserve army of labour towards revolutionary means, then the idea of revolution itself, a more daunting but necessary task, is far beyond your reach.
>every association you give for higher wages is negative, so i'll concude that you like lower wages for the selfish workers who just want to "line their own pockets".
I see higher wages as a means towards further antagonization with the bourgeoisie, not as an end goal. Notice how the only way you can argue with me is to claim things I never say. You have to actively ignore the nuance of my position. It makes me empathize more with Lenin, as he had to deal with similar liberal false dichotomies in his discussions on imperialism.
>how do i work with people who dont speak my language?
How do you talk with people who don't speak your social language? You learn it, or teach them yours.
>you are living in a fantasy. they dont want my help either. they want a middle class lifestyle like everyone else.
Good, then they're just of the same difficulty and potential as everyone else. Or have you also given up on the non-migrant working class too? It's not about "want" or "preference", it's about necessity.
>theyre not the revolutionary cannonfodder you expect them to be. how do you "organise" with our new arrivals?
Same way every other communist in history did. Same way Lenin spoke to two dozen different ethnicities of half a dozen different languages and inspired them to fight for a better future, despite being at each other's throats not even a decade before. Same way Marx inspired people he never even lived to see. By talking. By taking risk, failing, and taking risk again. By speaking of mutual interest, by sitting down with anyone who will bother to listen, by telling what you know to be true even when some might gawk and dismiss it, if only because one mother, or father, or child might hear and understand and see what your eyes see. Not because of fantasy and nativity, but because of necessity. Because it must be done if we are to survive. Because the alternative is the fate of the worker, migrant or local, being left in the hands of bourgeoisie, who drives us to damnation. Because we have a world to win, not a nation to settle for.


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>>2324401
>People use a street as a place for social gathering, commerce, and charity

>>2325453
>How do you talk with people who don't speak your social language? You learn it, or teach them yours.
I work with a large number of immigrants and the issue is that most just don't want to learn English. They see no reason to do so. They only socialise within their ethnic group and live in essentially a parallel society by their own choice.

I'm not even going to address the point about "learning their language" because that makes no sense outside of maybe Wales where there is an official language other than English.

White Britons will never use their butcher, baker, and candlestick maker, then fucking moan piss and cry that their highstreet is full of bookies, charity shops, greggs, and barbers. Why are they like this?

>>2326491
the idea of the twee local baker is nice. the reality that they cost much more than lidl and - because they're run by some rando - are as much a social interaction as a commercial one, with all the potential awkwardness british people socially interacting entails, serve to put people off.

people want to live in a society where everyone else shops at the local baker so the highstreet is pretty, so that they can enjoy the discounts supermarkets offer. it's not an individual moral failing so much as one of the structural tyrannies of convenience.

>>2326511
>people want to live in a society where everyone else shops at the local baker so the highstreet is pretty, so that they can enjoy the discounts supermarkets offer. it's not an individual moral failing so much as one of the structural tyrannies of convenience.
Its an individual moral failing of the entirety of society. We live in a crab bucket culture here people aren't willing to do anything to help good things exist.

>>2326605
it's called a coordination problem
(although that's only a subset of the wider problem that nobody can avoid sounding insane advocating for inconvenience.)

>>2326605
you're describing neoliberalism.

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>>2326615
>>2326651
My point is that this is uniquely bad in Britain, in part due to the Thatcherisation of our society.

What's good in Hull?

>>2327496
Pure antisemitism!

it's so tiring seeing the government, BBC, news media all defend israel so hard 24/7
if you turn on the TV or listen to Labour without looking any further, you'd think it was iran who was the aggressor, who attacked israel for no reason
we live in an era of post-truths
one interesting thing though is that japan is being firmly pro-iran at the G7 meeting while the UK and everyone else in that group is siding with israel, i wonder how that will pan out

Grooming Gang report just dropped.

>>2328980
>it's so tiring seeing the government, BBC, news media all defend israel so hard 24/7
>if you turn on the TV or listen to Labour without looking any further, you'd think it was iran who was the aggressor, who attacked israel for no reason
>we live in an era of post-truths
Why do you sound surprised? People made this term ZOG up for a reason.

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Did liberals/leftists honestly believe they could keep this quiet forever?

>>2330485
second one or first one?

>>2334362
bet everything in my pocket they put every brown person down as pakistani. My grandfather was greek and they used to call him pakistani in england.

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>>2334362
do rightoids honestly believe that child trafficking in the UK has only been a problem since rotherham? don't you remember elm house? savile? prince andrew? operation ore?

>[WRT operation ore] Detective Chief Inspector Bob McLachlan, the former head of Scotland Yard’s paedophile unit, told the Sunday Herald, “the lack of urgency in making arrests will lead to suspects destroying evidence…before they are arrested.” McLachlan also told the Herald that claims made by police chiefs and the government that they are prioritizing pedophile crime are nothing but “smoke and mirrors.” The final line of the Sunday Herald article revealed that, according to police, there were enough “rich and famous Operation Ore suspects [to] fill newspaper front pages for an entire year.” According to The Register and the Sunday Times (which reportedly obtained, but did not publish, all 7,272 names), the list of suspects included “at least 20 senior executives,…services personnel from at least five military bases, GPs, university academics and civil servants.” Also on the list were a “famous newspaper columnist…along with a songwriter for a legendary pop band and a member of another chart-topping 1980s cult pop group, along with an official with the Church of England.” It is unlikely that any of those suspects, nor the “high-profile former Labour Cabinet minister” mentioned by the Sunday Herald, will ever be prosecuted. In August 2003, Scotland on Sunday reported that the Scottish arm of the “massive internet child pornography investigation Operation Ore has ended…without anybody being charged with sex abuse.” An unnamed Scottish police chief said that that outcome “would not trouble us if we thought that all the men who were looking at child porn on their computer were just sad creeps who did not pose a risk to the children in their lives, but that is not the conclusion that was drawn from every raid.” To the contrary, what investigators repeatedly encountered was evidence that suspects were engaged in the ongoing abuse of children.

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>>2334372
Highly unlikely. The pie chart for convictions for that operation in the same report has more nationalities listed including Yemeni and Bangladeshi. The perpetrators are still overwhelmingly Pakistani.

>>2334378
>do rightoids honestly believe that child trafficking in the UK has only been a problem since rotherham?
Nobody made that arguement. You're arguing with people who don't exist.

By all indications the grooming gangs scandal involved more people (including perps, victims and collaborators) than all of the sandals you mentioned put together. The scale is unprecedented and it was happening in dozens of towns across the country.

>>2334362
>>2334387
Yemeni getting 2% out of nowhere makes me think this is a class division in which upper class child trafficking are able to get away with it.

>>2334434
>Yemeni getting 2% out of nowhere
The sample size is 42 so 2% would mean one Yemeni. It's possible he was just mates with the Pakis from the mosque or something.

>this is a class division in which upper class child trafficking are able to get away with it.

If it was purely a class division why are Pakistanis so overrepresented? They make up 4% of the population for that region but 64% of those suspected of child sexual abuse.

>>2334392
>Nobody made that arguement.
except you when you started off claiming "durr do liberals and leftists think they could honestly keep this quiet?"

>The scale is unprecedented and it was happening in dozens of towns across the country.

not even close lmao, operation ore was an extension of the FBI's operation avalanche, which started as an investigation of an international child-trafficking, snuff-film & CSAM distribution ring based in the U.S.

>In late March 2001, yet another interlinked, global pedophile network was exposed. That month, the Independent reported, “US authorities announced the

arrest of four American citizens for involvement in an international child-porn ring called Blue Orchid.” The Los Angeles Times added further details: “the United States and Russia have shut down a Moscow-based international pornography ring that used the Internet to sell videotapes of children engaged in sexual acts.” These tapes were said to sell for “between $200 and $300.” As an Associated Press release revealed, “police seized some 600 videotapes, 200 digital video disks and many boxes of photographs.” Video duplication equipment and sales and shipping records were also seized, leading to “criminal inquiries in 24 nations…Many of the tapes were bought by people in the United States; others went to Germany, Britain, France, Denmark, China, Kuwait, Mexico and scores of other countries.” The Times reported that nine people had been arrested and fifteen search warrants had been issued in the case. The AP report noted that four of those arrests were in Russia, where two suspects, alas, had “committed suicide.” The ring was also said by the Times to offer what were cryptically referred to as “custom-made videos” for the hefty price of $5,000 each. The contents of these videos were not revealed, but it was revealed that the “prevalence of child pornography has increased dramatically with the growth of the Internet. There are approximately 100,000 web sites worldwide associated with child pornography.”

so, a MULTIPLE international child-trafficking rings spanning multiple countries, covered up by the highest echelons of the British state, the royalty, and the most affluential of our bourgeois, many suspects of whom that were identified by authorities were never sentenced or even named publically, happening since ATLEAST the early 70s involves more people that a single child trafficking front.

>involved more people than all of the sandals you mentioned put together

that's just an outright lie, these aren't just disconnected sandals happening in a vacuum, these sandals are indicative of a larger network at work. so instead of "dozens of towns across the country" try dozens of countries across the world.

unfortunately, while blaming the institutionalized paedophilia and child-trafficking in our country on the pakistanis would be an incredible boon to whatever ideological nonsense it is you believe in, that's not the case and the child-trafficking in this country is widespread and multinational by its nature and not limited to one specific cultural/ethnic group.
who do you think the main clientele of child traffickers are? i'll tell you; the same exact clientele that bought from the Landslide front, the Wonderland front, Epstein, Elm House, et al.

instead of basing your analysis of the child-trafficking and paedophilia problem in this country on vibes, a wikipedia article, and a pie-chart from a single inquiry, try and read these and gather a fuller picture.
deleted and reposted because i fucked the greentext formatting

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>>2334492 (You) (Me) (I)
i fucked it again but cba to re-do it. whoops!

All UK military vessels stationed in the Royal Navy base at Bahrain have just left…
Where are they going???

>>2334828
Your mums house.


The BBC is a clown organisation

owen jones status?

Are the right wing still crying over kulaks being asked to pay inheritance tax at a massively reduced rate compared to the proletariat?
Haven't heard much news on that front in quite some time though I can imagine Starmer doing a u-turn on it should his poll ratings drop another 2%.

>>2337679
The NFU gave in so yeah its ogre.

>>2337632
buttmitzvah'd

We are so cooked, Stop the War is utterly washed right at a time that we need to stop a war.

What do you think folks, is it worth joining the Green Party to vote for Zack Polanski in the leadership election?


>>2338616
No. don't bother Greens are a waste of time.

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whats the british version of fortunate son?

IT AINT MMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

IT AINT MEEEEEEEEEE

>>2338677
Starmer wishes that he were Tony Blair and he will do anything to make this his Iraq

>>2338677
21st century schizoid man

>>2338712
he is tony blair without even the few good things he had, truly a miserable little man

I hope you are all supporting this case, we need to be strongly in favour of Hamas being legalized.

>>2338852
Yes because the lawyer is supremely based.
fdpd

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why are young women more likely to be against abortion in the uk?

>>2339153
More yankeefied and exposed to american culture war media

>>2338677
We had some bangers during the war

>>2339153
Larger immigrant population grown up in patriachal households.

>>2339153
Yankeeification, zoomer puritanism, also reintroduction of "slut stigma" due to wider birth control ("you should have been on the pill/using a condom")..


>>2339153
They aren't… the graph just shows that they are more polarized. Also it lumps 16 - 34 year olds into the same bracked, if it were 16-25 I guarantee there would be almost nobody pro-abortion.

The real question is why are so many young (in the graph's category) men anti-abortion?

it's really funny how much Adam Curtis makes a certain type of establishment wanker journalist seethe.
>b-but he's a milquetoast lib, fuck him, why hasn't he set Das Kapital to burial yet???
the fact Curtis isn't saying anything too radical is half the reason it's so funny. the fact that they're clearly as furious about his form as his content (grr why can't he just tell us what he thinks openly, why's he showing us this archive footage of Thatcher and Saville, grr) is funny.

>>2339736
>Charlie Veitch
Fun fact: got his kids taken away because he wouldn't stop beating his wife.
https://www.sexualassault.co.uk/charles-veitch-youtube-agd-domestic-abuser/

>>2339762
I am sure you will like them when he uses them on you for supporting Palestine.

>>2339768
Wearing a keffiyah means you want to RAPE CHILDREN didnt you hear???
Also tbh apparently all you need to be to face his "fury" is his misses or 70.

>>2339777
He isn't a twat he is a danger.

>>2338642
>>2338669
But surely doing so is the most practical thing you can do, electorally at least, to help the leftist movement grow in the UK? There isn't really an alternative at the moment.

>>2339804
it may be the most effective thing you can do, but it costs you money better used to save up to buy a freddo.

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>>2339892
Starmer can chair a meeting. He can draft a minute. He can lead a team. He can hold a press conference. He can stay calm in an interview. Those skills look simple, but they’re not, and they’re vital.

>>2339927
The women he beats for starters.

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Communism

File: 1750399491011.png (13.04 KB, 615x77, wtf.png)

>it might be hotter than yesterday
what the fuck is their problem?

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/20/world/europe/pro-palestinian-activists-uk-air-base-raf-brize-norton.html

>In a startling breach of security, activists from a Pro-Palestinian group on Friday broke into Britain’s largest air force base and damaged two aircraft in what they said was a protest against the country’s military support for Israel.

>The group, called Palestine Action, posted footage online [ https://x.com/Pal_action/status/1935926198304985569] showing two people using electric scooters to move around the base, R.A.F. Brize Norton in Oxfordshire, which is used for overseas operations.
>In a statement, Palestine Action said that two activists had sprayed red paint into the turbine engines of two Airbus Voyagers and damaged them with crowbars, as well as spraying more red paint on the runway to “symbolize Palestinian bloodshed.” The group said that the two people who carried out the vandalism “managed to evade security and arrest” during the incursion in the early hours of Friday morning.
>Thames Valley Police, the force responsible for the area, said in a statement that officers were working with the Ministry of Defense and with the R.A.F. to investigate. Inquiries “are ongoing to locate and arrest those responsible,” the force noted.
>In a statement, the Ministry of Defense said, “We strongly condemn this vandalism of Royal Air Force assets. We are working closely with the police who are investigating.”
>The ministry did not immediately respond to a question on whether it would open a review of security at the site.
>Britain’s largest R.A.F. base, Brize Norton houses about 5,800 service personnel, 300 civilian staff members and 1,200 contractors.
>According to its official website, the base “provides rapid global mobility in support of U.K. overseas operations and exercises,” as well as air-to-air support for jets, “both on operations and in support of U.K. homeland defense.”

>>2339736
Next time they should ambush him and stick a knife in his zionist belly, don't give him or his bodyguard a second to react.

Assisted dying bill has just passed in the commons and will now become law.
In effect, if you live in England and Wales, have a terminal illness with 6 months or less to live, and are of sound mind, you will be able to choose to end your own life.
There are bans on advertising the service or doctors offering it to patients, the patient themselves has to ask for it, and doctors are free to refuse to do it.
I know this is an issue that's very controversial amongst and splits the Left over the whole issue of "it's telling disabled they're worthless, should give up, and can or should kill themselves!" versus "I want the freedom of choice to choose to end it all if I'm in crippling pain 24/7 and vomiting up faeces for the next year as I slowly die!" so I'll leave that to debate over that for yourselves if you want


>>2341704
are they the same as the sun dimmer lot?

>>2340074
>Infinite Africans 0/0

>>2342275
I think look up 'well poisoning' and then refer back to
>like how they control all aspects of society

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>>2342297
just like how Dawn French woke up one day and decided to audit her own views for antisemitism and decided they weren't up to snuff, so publicly apologised for them.

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>>2342297
and by "well poisoning" I don't mean they are literally poisoning the drinking water, not this time anyway

>>2342310
is it antisemitic to accuse anyone else of doing it?

>>2342319
methinks you've been addled by shartGPT friendo

>>2342319
you can't use evil to excuse evil, aside from it being a subjective term

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>>2342319
Breaking: You can't criticize a certain group

>>2342352
jesus christ with this shit again

Ok, let's play this game. No, there are lot's of 'evil' people in this world, but most of them you can call out and keep a distance from. Any other questions?


>>2342319
Yes, look at all these Jewish men whom brought devastation on this world.
>Ronald Reagan
Jewish
>Margret Thatcher
undoubtedly Jewish
>Adolf Hitler
unquestionably Jewish
>ᴉuᴉlossnW
what other ethnicity would he be? He's Jewish
>Ganges Khan
100% Jewish
>Pope Innocent 2
Have you ever heard of a more Jewish man?

>>2342371
ganges kahn?
is that like bibi stockholm?

>>2342369
boring

>>2307088
Adventurist weirdos, God the English can't do anything useful or properly.

>>2342374
I meant דזונגיס חאן (Dzjengis Khan)
why would I care about those Jewish names

>>2342371
>Margret "Friend of the jews" Thatcher

>>2342014
the guardian supports it so im against

does anyone have the one photo of Kier Starmer shitting himself in public

>>2342600
he uses a butt plug

Sorry but there is simply no good materialist rationale to telling people in agonising extreme torture they must be forced to live in such misery as long as possible.
In fact the law doesn't go far enough. If your condition won't kill you in 6 months then you are forced to live in world of literal agonising, burning, inescapable hell and wishing to die for years.
If you are angry about disabled people being treated poorly or being made to be feel worthless then good, go campaign for disabled rights.
If you are angry the state won't support disabled people enough then campaign for them to have better financial support.
Forcing people to exist in a hell you have never experienced if they don't want to isn't justifiable.
As someone living in chronic pain I know where I stand on this from direct lived experience and I expect most people against assisted dying have no personal experience of being in constant agony 24/7 or seeing someone else in such a state.

>>2342626
damn, he must have had explosive diarrhea to pop it out in public like that

>>2342778
>must be forced
no-one is forcing anyone to do anything either way, get a fucking grip. You are part of the problem.

>>2342784
Are you saying I should kill myself?

>>2342782
do what you like bloodskins

>>2342789
dafuq is a bloodskin?

>>2342794
not important

>>2342794
Someone with blood and skin eg (You)

>>2342800
You may do as you wish, if you step back and think for a moment you should understand that you have been led up the garden path by your outrage boner.

it's one thing for democratic change to take effect, but for such a fundamental, ubiquitous and blunt change to be met by spasticated flag waving morons is unnerving.

>>2342814
to put it another way
>YAY Mildred can get gassed now!!!

>>2342809
Is this post AI generated? What the hell are you talking about???

>>2342841
The point I'm making is such a dramatic change should not be met with jubilation. After all, it is a solemn subject isn't it?

These changes don't come from the wishes of the common man, if you think otherwise then I say god bless you.

Is that fair enough for you? bleep bleep bloop?

>>2342841
and like I said to begin with
>no-one is forcing anyone to do anything either way, get a fucking grip. You are part of the problem.

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>>2342852
>These changes don't come from the wishes of the common man, if you think otherwise then I say god bless you.
Please take a look at the polling figures for the issue

>>2342865
bless you
and I suppose you wholeheartedly accept brexit as a democratic endpoint?

I want you to say those words to me. Type them out. Use CAPS for me pleasure.

>>2342873
*my
arrrrr jim lad

>>2342873
Brexit has been a shitshow, but do you seriously believe Communism can be achieved within the structures of the EU?
Please, I want you to type it out for me in all caps. Tell me the EU would permit a communist revolution within it's borders.

>>2342882
And there we have it, against freedom of choice for those in a living hell to have any control over their lives, constant unironic references to "bless you" implying your idealist ideological positioning, defence of the EU neoliberal establishment, and now finally open enraged anti-semitism

>>2342348
"to be banned" really understates it lol, they're being proscribed as a terrorist group.

>>2342778
something can be true in principle while having disastrous consequences in practice.
"go campaign for disabled rights/financial support" is a meaningless platitude: this is not a democracy, your campaign will not do anything.
as a simple numbers game: there are more disabled people than people with chronic pain (perhaps tautologically, since chronic pain is surely a subset of disability), if you offer no support for people to live because it's expensive, while offering an out for them to die, you're really stacking the board in death's favor. depending on the exact ratios and just how cheeky doctors are willing to be, there's a non-zero chance more people not in chronic pain are killed than people who are in chronic pain.

people actively campaigned for safeguards in this bill and all such changes were rejected. ask yourself, why do you think that happened? do you really think that keir starmer, a man who thrives on human misery, sat here and wink-wink nudge-nudge oversaw a bill to liberalise the law and give people more control over their lives? are you that naive? the fucker couldn't even oversee real railway nationalisation.

Is Palestine Action really going to be banned?

>>2343658
Yes, they've wanted a pretext to ban them for ages. The Terrorism Act is fucking insane for it though, it would get struck down if there was literally any legal way to appeal but even stating that you want an ord deproscribed counts as "supporting terrorism".

>>2343862
The excuse the government provides would make the shit the CND did terrorist acts

>>2343863
Yep, and that is the endgoal.

>>2343658
Yea, the name will change and the actions will continue.

2 based 3 based 4 based

>>2343658
>>2343862
>>2343863
>>2343958
>>2343976
The real thing tbh is the Palestine Movement actively stating they support Palestine Action if such a proscription occurs. Proscription only works if there is a limited enough group of people that supports said group, and thus they can be prosecuted. The Provisional IRA, UDA, UVF et al are all proscribed, yet nobody has ever been arrested in NI for "supporting a proscribed organisation".

Does anyone have any memes that call the far right and Starmer cucks for jumping to the US and Israel's commands?

>>2342778
I think there are genuine reasons on both sides of this and I certainly don't think your experience should be downplayed here. You make good points but it's worrying that this will be used to kill the disabled

Does anyone here have that one video of Joanna Cherry holding a meme for parliament that says stfu terf.
I can't find it

>>2344142 (me)
nvm, I couldn't find it on youtube, but I found it on reddit.

Islamic moral values > Liberal moral values

Socialism in a British context is the redistribution of stolen wealth and resources, you don’t actually want to end the rape and plunder that makes your quality of life possible

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>>2344174
What quality of life

>>2344228
Hit dogs really holler huh nigel

Just a reminder that on monday saying "I support Palestine Action" will be a criminal offence worth 10 years, and saying "I do not believe Palestine Action is a terrorist organisation" could also see you in prison this long.

These days… they will arrest you, just for saying you don't want to die for Israel!

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How long until Starmer confirms we'll join the war, do you think?
I give it 5 - 12 days.

>>2345295
Monday morning.

>>2345295
How long can he last without sex from his jew wife?

TIL Labour has often been a pathetic ineffectual breeding ground for fascism even since its interwar days

>>2347083
The Mosley Memorandum was an exceptionally good piece of economic policy which the Labour government should've adopted at the time. It was essentially what Tony Benn and the "hard left" of the party proposed with the 'Alternative Economic Strategy' in the 1970s, so Mosley was way ahead of the curve.

Unfortunately the MacDonald government of 1930 was just so cucked by monetarist brainworms that they rejected Mosley's ideas on the basis of them being too socialistic and radical.

>>2346698
i thought he was into ukrainian male models

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We're going to solve the Transgender Question by photographing every woman who doesn't look feminine enough and doxxing them on social media

Livestream of the Palestine Action demo in London. Its too many people for targeted arrests, things might get spicey.

>>2345295
Never because it’s only “war” when there are boots on the ground and I doubt even the US will actually deploy soldiers. It will be billions a year spent on throwing high tech missiles at the front porch of deep underground bunkers as a “war preventative action” and considered successful at that since no boots on ground.

>>2347455

I'm kind of seeing that yeah. I wonder if the lack of adoption of said memorandum played a large part in radicalising Mosley towards fascism? I haven't studied the man himself much I just read this in a book about someone else

>>2349634
real shame, maybe he just crumpled mentally when labour rejected his memorandum

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Its over union bros…

>>2349643
lol the grift continues god bless him

>>2349643
i wonder why

>>2308301
Lol how do you cunts become friends with these deranged honkies.

Just admit it
Kneel
Lay down fetal
Admit it's over
Nothing can be done

The end.

>>2349808
>lol the grift continues god bless him
Dont think grift is the word for him tbh. He's a political opertunist but if he were a grifter he would have stayed in labour, never opposed war and/or grifted his way into the tory party which is a job for life and with his skills and so on he probably could have done very well within the party.

>>2308301
WTF no i don't spend my free time with reactionaries of any stripe. The real question is why do you?

>>2351233
most MPs aren't grifters. they're useless and self-interested, yes, but they lack the talent for grifting. they're held up entirely by their party apparatus and they lack the imagination to come up with a swindle. they sit there and collect bribes, sure, but they're more like an inanimate sewage-pipe that transports bribes than the very animate, constantly-seeking-the-limelight grifter. The reduced scale and the increased personal effort (and talents to which it speaks) are what separate the grifter from the common MP or Lord, who's really more of a subsidy-junkie.

Galloway didn't start out a grifter, he became a grifter because he's an opportunist. (and an egotist in a way that would be detrimental to advancement within Labour) With the power of hindsight, being kicked out probably helped him too: remember that if he was a Labour MP he'd definitely have lost his seat in 2015, and without any other enterprises to fall back on.

>>2349643
rare galloway W

the co-op is officially boycotting israeli goods

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Remember, the workers don't want war.

>>2308311
I haven't tried that lol, sounds like it would be hilarious. I don't know about any of that though - will need to do some reading

>>2351107
>>2351378
I suppose I didn't know his views, certainly the extent of them, prior to becoming friends. Originally became friendly through other friends etc.

>>2349643
Critical support to George Galloway against the British Empire

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Are you ready?

>>2354208
Corbyn will never do it imo. If he was going to it would've happened already.

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>>2354281
flood detected

Why does the media keep telling me what Wayne Rooney's wif thinks of Palestine Action?

>>2354301
WHY DOES THE MEDIA KEEP TELLING ME ABOUT MEGHAN FUCKING MARCLE IF I EVER AM BUYING SHIT FROM COOP AND I SEE THAT UGLY AMERIKKKAN ROYAL FACE AGAIN I AM GOING TO BURN IT ALL DOWN

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>>2354208
You already have the Workers Party.

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< £1.60 for a can of coke with a Muslim name on it.
< Decline.
Tesco Extra Has Fallen

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Quakers being based again

the building rebellion against the cuts to PIP are quite funny. a rare moment where even carpetbagging lobbyist MPs go "hang on, if the purpose is to get people into work why the fuck are you cutting a benefit with no relationship to employment status, which helps keep disabled people in work." with the brain and "look, mate, i've been an MP for a year and you've not said hello to me, what the fuck gives?" with the heart.

just complete duds, an administration of complete and utter duds. useless, useless people. being a right-wing bastard is one thing, but being so bad at it. doing this damn silly thing in this damn silly way.

https://communist.red/
Seen posters around my town from these guys, does anyone know what the deal is with them? Do they glow?

I'm new to the whole socialism thing so I've no idea about any of this stuff.

>>2334362
>keep this quite forever
It has been quite a big scandal back when it happened 15 years ago.

>>2334362
>Did liberals/leftists honestly believe they could keep this quiet forever
<the only thing any of these ivory tower freaks want to talk about
Are you having a mental break?

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British Jews.

>>2358560
this is some creepy occult shit

>>2358563
Sorry I spooked you rapefiend. Do you want a cuddle? 🤗

>>2358567
yes pls ty

>>2358560
https://x.com/_imey/status/1938566576187338776

the far rightoids seem to think this post is about muslims, theres so many of those in the civil service after all

>>2358560
There's no way this wasn't written by a chud

>>2358560
If the union rep is involved they are almost certainly talkinga bout muslims and pro-palestine work.

>>2356629
That is the Revolutionary Communist Party, formerly known as Socialist Appeal. They are a trotskyist organisation of the Cliffite tendency. Until 2023 they were known for being entryists into Labour, however after being kicked out in 2022 they have pivoted to forming "revolutionary communist parties" across the world. Their positions are pretty standard for trots, although they have a "first farage, then us" approach. Yes they sell newspapers.

>>2356629
The biggest Trotskyist org in the UK
They're decent people, although they're primarily uni kids handing out newspapers in city centres, who'll mostly become DemSocs shortly after graduation

>>2358599
you think nubritons have anything but contempt for British institution and history?

>>2344754
>we need more investment
>we need to tax the rich
what did he mean by this?

>>2358975
Its funny that only your sort use the phrase "nubriton".

>>2359025
Investments can be done by governments with a nationalized banking sector and don't require a rich middleman leeching off the process silly.

Palestine Action is dead, long live Yvette Cooper!
> BREAKING: Inspired by Palestine Action, new direct action group ‘Yvette Cooper’ takes action against BNY Mellon’s investment firm, shareholders in Israel’s biggest weapons producer.
> Yvette Cooper may try to ban Palestine Action, but will she ban herself?

>>2358975
British institutions and history are worthy of contempt. "Britain" doesn't even really have institutions, there's a disparate mish-mash of English institutions occasionally with a sycophantic Scottish wing, a token Welsh appendage grafted on after 1999, and a gaggle of freaks in Northern Ireland who're the only people who actually think of themselves as British. (they're not, they're either Northern Irish or Irish.)

Read Edgerton and tell me I'm wrong. (He is fond of Britain, but recognizes it as past tense. He doesn't quite go so far as I do to draw the conclusion that if Britain is a past-tense entity, attempts to pretend it's here in the present are contemptible.)

>>2359126
>your sort
i refuse to believe anyone but that guy specifically uses the term nubriton.
sounds like a novelty sex toy.

>>2358975
What does that have to do with anything? Just look at how it was written.
>One of these is a network for members of a specific religion (won't mention which one)
>members of my religion whom I disavow (if you disavow them you can just mention what that religion is)
>they explicitly discuss how to change government policy
If this was real, they would've mentioned the organisation they're a part of and what religion these people are. Since they haven't, the only likely thing is that a chud wrote this as a gotcha. Basically they want people to talk in the comments about how bad it is that we have an ethnic fifth column (whether we do or not I'm not going to discuss) so they can post the replies elsewhere and say "look! the normies hate ethnic fifth columns but hate us when we say it's the jews/muslims and show "proof"! ".
It's 100% fake and gay

>>2359126
>>2359147
>>2359154

you didn't answer the question

>>2359135
I think 'investment' implies the pursuit of financial gain. Paying council tax isn't 'an investment' in the same way.

>>2359159
IDK, make sure it is made of latex, i guess. Buy a chargeable so you're not forever down the spar buying double-A's.

>>2359165
>can't even face up to a simple question
a coward like the guy in this vid
>>2344754

>>2359154
>What does that have to do with anything?
the premise of the post is that nubritons work together to undermine British institutions and implement their own version of it.

I would rely on leftyswine to police such things out of basic righteousness, but, y'know, you can't exactly be trusted when it comes to facing up to race related issues can you.

novara status?
owen jones status?

>>2359159
Stupid question, define "nubriton".

>>2359168
>WAAAAHHHH DEBATE ME
You're on a Khmer hand drawn figure forum who cares

>>2359176
those with a divided identity resulting from a divided heritage

>>2359174
Hey I'm just saying it's clearly a fake post. If anything, stuff like that is just poisoning the well when it comes to race related stuff

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>>2359175
>Novara Status
Joining the Greens
>Owen Jones Status
picrel

File: 1751111830056.png (78.13 KB, 182x277, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2359180
So Tom Jones is a nubriton?

>>2359181
I'm not saying it isn't.

But what I would like one of you to acknowledge is that it might very well represent genuine issues held by people. Instead of just reeee-ing it down the toilet and putting your head in the sand. Face up to it.

>tfw dad is scottish and mum is english
Bros do I have divided loyalty??

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Are Kneecap Nubritons?

>>2359184
He would, I assume, describe himself as Welsh and English (though probably he would just use the term British)

We are in Britain now, so his heritage is divided between parts of Britain.

Would you like me to bring up the time the Welsh started burning down English holiday homes? No, I thought not.

>>2359190
You tell me, apply some reasoning for yourself.

>>2359168
>>can't even face up to a simple question
NOBODY KNOWS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SPEAK LIKE A NORAL PERSON
USE YOUR WORDS

>>2359189
Yes there most certainly is animosity between Scotland and England. What is your point?

>>2359190
They're a YooKay group not a UK group, so yeah.

>>2359195
what is their heritage?

>>2359194
Fuck bro i didnt realise i was a nubriton i gotta go home nad rethink my lyfe

>>2359193
here, a defintion of 'nubriton'.
>those with a divided identity resulting from a divided heritage

>>2359200
Stop dodging the question: is Tom Jones a Nubriton???

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>>2359186
This is what you put in you? Anon you are weird.

nubriton = ethnic minorities within Britain
Simple as
Scots, the English, the Welsh, Irish, Manx etc, are natives so they can't be nubritons. There's nothing "nu" about them.

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>>2359204
>Irish are native to britain
Source?

>>2359199
His heritage is British, so no he is not a nubriton.

I gave you too much credit

>a person with a divided identity as a result of a divided heritage (from somewhere other than here because that is where we are now)

>>2359205
Are the northern Irish not British now?

>>2359204
>nubriton = ethnic minorities within Britain
Wait but this guy said >>2359180 which is it?? I am so confused I stg 😭😭😭

>>2359208
Idk man i dont think gerry adams is british just a hunch

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DO YOU THINK NUBRITONS HAVE ANYTHING BUT CONTEMPT FOR BRITISH INSTITUTIONS AND HISTORY?

>>2351107
>why are you living in society and not retreating to my book group wahhh


>>2359210
Oh okay right i getch i getchu. So like, Charles is a nubriton right? like his mum is a german and his dad's greek innit

File: 1751112781951.png (113.96 KB, 450x206, ClipboardImage.png)


Wait but FUCK I love N-DUBZ are you tellin me Dappy is a spy or smtng??

>>2359216
If it is dividing his identity, then yes.
I can't say I trust that old pedo to do what's right by this country. Stop being a pedantic ass and answer the question.

>>2359205
bro… that monkey is going to fuck up that lion, just you watch.

What if my ancestors came from Britain? Does that make me an exbriton?

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How about this?

Do you think those with a divided identity as a result of having a divided heritage should be put in positions of power and trust to do what is right by the people of this country?

>>2359224
by 'do right by' I mean:
to uphold the values, history and heritage of THIS country and its people.

>>2359223
I suppose it does, yes. Like Canadians or something like that.

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gone a bit quiet in here lads

>>2359224
>>2359225
I trust Dappy with my LIFE bro 💪💪💪

>>2359224
>trust to do what is right by the people of this country?
Do you think your native born politicians do?

>>2359229
fabulous, thank you for answering the question and affirming what I already knew about you.

>>2359230
>this shit also tastes like shit
I'm sure it does

>>2359231
That I am ride and die for N-dubz??

If I used the term nuisraeli, which group would you think that best describes and why?

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Are ulster prods nuirish?

>>2359229
>I trust Dappy with my LIFE bro 💪💪💪
his FITB was a banger. i'd vote for him.

>>2359234
Is that a granola brand?

>>2359228
Do you think this man has a divided identity? Based on a divided heritage?

I would honestly answer 'no' to that, such is the overriding strength of his mullim heritage.


Do you see this as a problem?

>>2359241
do you reckon this chap would show up to a village fete and have a go on the apple bob?

>>2359224
If you and your friends and family live in a place you want that place to be a nice place.

If you WANKERS aren't going to face up to these questions, the please at least don't try to prevent others from doing so.

>>2359244
yes, agreed. That isn't answering the question though.

>>2359240
YES brudda it was bangin. Dappy should be PM tbh.
>>2359245
Happy to answer questions about Dappy all the time.

>>2359236
the few of them that see themselves as irish definitely are

>>2359249
everyone gather round and watch this:

is criticizing israel antisemitic?

File: 1751115025303.jpeg (6.93 KB, 259x194, download.jpeg)


>>2359253
What's that gotta do with Dappy?
But nah man FUCK Israel they're wastemans.

>>2359259
>doesn't answer the question
hmmmmm very interesting

>>2359267
Nah I did brudda fuck israel innit

>>2359268
the question is:
is criticizing israel antisemitic?

>>2359270
nah it isnt fuck israel

>>2359270
you've had your fun anon, take the nubriton out of your ass and go and do something with your saturday.

>>2359272
waste of fucking time talking to you dipshits lol

>>2359274
hey, perhaps you can answer it?
>>2359270

>>2359275
wait u think we're pro israel???

>>2359277
Wait I'm still not seeing an answer!!!!!

>>2359278
Bruv can you not REED, it says "nah it" isnt right here >>2359272

>>2359279
hilarious

>>2359270
Apologies, it appears the plebs are out to-day, On behalf of the champagne socialist society of leftypol I want to confirm that no we do not believe it is antisemitic to criticise Israel. Spending 5 seconds looking at any of this board would make you realise this. Good day.

>>2359281
Thanks
We're one step closer.

Why do you think the mop headed twat in this video >>2344754 avoided saying that?

>>2359283
I am afraid I am not privy to his inner world but I imagine he was afraid of the power the media has in this country to ruin your career for criticising israel.

>>2359283
Does that influence extend to protecting other people? (shortcut: yes)

which people?

Nubritons.

>>2358602
What pro Palestine work do civil servants ever do??

But it's probably a fake post anyways.

]>>2359285
wait nubritons are pro-israel??

>>2359195
>They're a YooKay group not a UK group, so yeah.
I dont think Kneecap are a "YooKay" group, whatever that means…

>>2359293
most aren't, or simply don't care.

Most israelis are pro nubritons though. Weird you might think?

A divided society is a weak society. We can't decide what a woman is, or indeed if it is wrong to have 4 of them as wives. It's situations like that where the unscrupulous can thrive, and who more so I ask?

>>2359294
https://x.com/mythoyookay?lang=en-GB

I think I found what it means, some weirdo far right shit

>>2359295
But there were plenty of strong multi ethnic/religious countries in history

File: 1751118048354.jpeg (7.42 KB, 288x175, download (1).jpeg)

>>2359296
>in history

there is only one country on Earth currently getting less diverse.

File: 1751118073032.png (36.71 KB, 350x350, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2359276
Personally i'd go for the Nubitron 3000. It's rechargeable and comes with a discreet charging station which makes it look indistinguishable from miscellaneous toiletries.
Oh, make sure it's the 3000 Classic and not the Nubitron 3000 XC100 because the latter is an off-brand made out of poor quality plastics and is not certified.

>>2359302
you're so obvious

>>2359296
>I think I found what it means, some weirdo far right shit
A lot of this of this is just quite nice, wholesome content except the guy posting it is inexplicably seething.
All those flavours and salt was chosen, or something.

>>2359296
>But there were plenty of strong multi ethnic/religious countries in history
Weren't most of them empires?

>>2359301
Stop vaguebooking

>>2359309
Honestly I kind of feel bad for these people, so much crying over something so pointless

>>2359329
I guess many were since having different ethnic groups was often through conquest but I don't think all

>>2359330
>I guess many were since having different ethnic groups was often through conquest
So weren't they only strong because there was a huge colonial army there to quell any uprisings?

>>2359159
the question becomes redundant if category errors are involved. all of the key nouns become meaningless: there are no british institutions, there is no british history (except insofar as britain itself is a historical category - carthage is part of history, but there is no carthaginian history in the absence of carthage.), and there are no "nubritons".

your question, correctly parsed, becomes:
you think NULL have anything but contempt for NULL and NULL?
the closest to an answer i can give you is:
syntax error on line 1.

>>2359330
>Honestly I kind of feel bad for these people, so much crying over something so pointless
Oh certainly, i'm sure these guys must all have severe social issues. Very sad, people capitalism has left behind to rot in their petty resentments.

>>2359338
Not always, not all multi ethnic countries needed 'suppression' like that when the different groups were treated equitably

>>2359347
Yeah. It sucks all around I guess

>>2359225
this country has no values, heritage, or history. even setting aside that it's an austria-hungary style relic completely unsuited to the modern world, every attempt to define british values devolves into complete and utter farce.
the purported values of this purported "country" (immigrants pay attention, this is on the test!) are "democracy (done better by literally every first world nation), the rule of law (all-but-ibid, we're as crooked as the italians but much quieter), individual liberty (got a license for that? hope you've not been throwing any paint…) , mutual respect (ha!), and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs (your prejudices right now speak to the fact that this is, in fact, incredibly "un-british")"

File: 1751121442473.png (89.41 KB, 300x300, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2359345
Wait. does OP anon think it is said 'Nubriton' like 'Written', not 'Louis Vuitton'?
No wonder he is so confused all of the time.

>>2359349
Trvthnvke
I think the current British civic identity is pretty much just a holdover of the British empire, since it emphasises loyalty to the crown (or the British state in general), and a lot of the justification for the "multiculturalism" is just the fact that we used to have an empire, and that immigrants from commonwealth countries are more likely to assimilate because they were subjects of the empire. English independence is the way forward.
>>2359348
>Not always, not all multi ethnic countries needed 'suppression' like that when the different groups were treated equitably
How many examples are there of that actually happening though? I feel like it'd be very hard for that to actually happen, because some people do just tend to be more ethnocentric than others.

The BBC refused to air Kneecap's Glastonbury performance and still have a "maybe" over whether they'll allow it on iPlayer (edited, to remove anything political they say)
LMAO @ the state and it's propaganda platform absolutely losing their shit over the idea of supporting a free Palestine or a united Ireland

>>2359345
cool, in that case you need to keep your trap shut because your opinion is also NULL

>>2359351
You've associated ethnic replacement with sexual gratification. That's possibly the most [redacted] thing I've seen. Unbelievable.

>>2359432
must protect the eternal victims.

Does this surprise you in the least?

Is the BBC an institution?

>>2359349
of course it does ffs
get a grip you fanny

>>2359330
>Stop vaguebooking
What would you like me to explain?
I can only be so blunt.

File: 1751129800396.png (202.35 KB, 960x406, ClipboardImage.png)


>>2359473
*Duuurrr define foreign*
That's a NULL post and must be disregarded

>>2307088
How's life in britland? Has fucking over transhumanists improved the lives of the average bonglander and sheep shagger? I don't keep up that much. Is the government still doing neoliberal bullshit?
T. American transhumanister

>>2359481
Britain has been a dystopia since the 70s, with only a small sliver of hope under Blair, who promptly threw any chance of being a good PM away.
Still love my country though.

>>2359483
I see, it all goes back to Thatcher right? What's communist organizing like in Britian, I hear most are just fronts for labor outside of Wales

>>2359483
>who promptly threw any chance of being a good PM away.
yeah by being a bad PM.
His idea, among others, was to get 50% of young people hooked up to the money lenders before they even enter the job market. Before they even take on a mortgage. Currently the repayment span will have the student loans company rifling through your paypacket until you are 60 years old.

File: 1751131580979.png (43.08 KB, 724x223, ClipboardImage.png)

hey, Brits. How are you coping that your new MI6 intelligence chief boss is the grand daughter of a literal nazi? alias "the butcher".
prepared to integrate nazism strongly into your society?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaise_Metreweli

>>2359492
Crazy how Western intelligence agencies are chock-full of the descendands of literal Nazis and white emigrés.

File: 1751132158536.png (33.36 KB, 339x268, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2359467
>You've associated ethnic replacement with sexual gratification. That's possibly the most [redacted] thing I've seen. Unbelievable.
<t. the guy obsessed with a marital-aid brand.
Okay. lmao.

>>2359481
>T. American transhumanister
UK is not that bad on trans issues especially considering a lot of it's surrounding nations and the rest of the anglosphere. Your state simply tells you it is bad here for trans people to distract from the fact that in your country trans people are forced in to prostitution and regularly murdered for their gender identity without even enough public outcry to make the local nightly news.

>>2359492
maybe he had a point?

>>2359473
Does another man’s cock count?

>>2359515
only if the man is foreign

How about Sinn Brain and it sucks your dick?

>>2359516
what if it's a trans with a willy transplant?

File: 1751134473961.mp4 (3.03 MB, 640x360, IMG_2739.mp4)

How is this any different from the Nuremberg Rallies?

>>2359542
this ones based

>>2359542
>how does it keep happening to me???
must be everyone else that's wrong again eh?
yeah must be that.

>>2359542
Keir Starmer MUST condemn

>>2359542
Absolute Cinema

>>2359549
*Kid Starver MUST condooom

>>2359549
it's a tricky game of Victim Top Trumps that he must play.

>>2359542
Bob Vylan is often described as a grime-punk fusion duo.
They address themes of leftist/socialist politics, wealth redistribution, racism, police brutality, veganism, Palestinian and Irish liberation.

File: 1751136540324.png (413.94 KB, 512x640, ClipboardImage.png)

Very Based. The Basedest.

>>2359506
The UK is awful on trans issues you lying shitebag, and the direction of travel is for the worse - not better. Britain is unique in that even the liberal faction of the elite hate transgender people.

>>2359469
Define British values. Give me a list.

>>2359567
They're actually pretty good tbh.

>>2359568
>The UK is awful on trans issues
Lie.

>>2359568
>>2359506
Its harder to access trans healthcare or to change legal documents in the UK than basically any other state in Western Europe or South America.
Places like Pakistan have self ID at this point which the the UK sees as some major threat to civilisation
The government has said male officers can grope and strip search trans women who have had bottom surgery and changed legal gender
Every news rag has anti-trans articles on the majority of days of the week
JK Rowling said cis men should patrol women's bathrooms and violently assault trans women inside them and the establishment ignores it or cheers
The Cass review has been debunked as anti-scientific junk by the medical establishments of Canada, Australia and New Zealand
The recent repeal of trans rights by the courts was undertaken by a judge with links to hardline evangelical Christian groups and who refuse to meet with or speak to a single trans person or trans supporting org
The leader of the EHRC, Baroness Falkner who is in charge of dictating policy has had most of her staff quit due to her anti-LGBT views and she admitted in an interview that her opposition to trans rights goes against the science but is still good because it's based on her Islamic beliefs.

>>2359572
Rape
Pillage
Monarchy
Smugness

Fwiw as a disabled British transhumanist (i have chronic pain from nerve damage) I started making back up plans to leave after the recent court case and I'm now in a position where I can quickly move to Ireland or Spain should shit get any worse eg should Reform win and make shit worse, and most trans people I know aren't actively planning to leave yet but are organising their options and getting their passports in check etc.
You could go literally anywhere else in Western Europe or to any other Anglo country (barring red US states) and have what is a far better legal and medical situation.

Oh they have a word filter on it lmao, I wondered why people were saying "transhumanist"

>>2359572
fuck off
how about that?

Tell you what, write down a bunch of things you dislike about British values, and then tell yourself "if there are distinct things I dislike about British culture then it stands to reason there are things I dislike about other people's and cultures too"

>>2359567
that's a bit teledildonic isn't it?

>>2359588
Your post falls firmly under self righteous smugness

>>2359592
You mean like jeremy clarshart?
A lot of people like him though, you know people are allowed to like things that you don't?

>>2359594
Top Gear is a good show in spite of Jeremy, not because of him

>>2359597
nah, it was basically a vehicle for clarkson's ego, and fair play to him. The other two were just clingons

>>2359576
Great counterargument with many examples.
This is a country where our "human rights commissioner" tells people they need to accept a loss of rights, where our supreme court randomly renders the gender recognition act meaningless based on a spurious interpretation of the equality act which its authors could not possibly have intended, where similar shitehousing took place over Scotland's gender recognition reform, where the press is overwhelmingly anti-trans, and, most notably, where trans healthcare is effectively non-existent. I have been on a waiting list for 5 years and got sweet fuck all. That's keeping it brief.

>>2359600
why not just love the body you have got? Shouldn't that be the message?

>>2359584
We need to stay and keep fighting. Not everyone can run. We have a job to do here.
>>2359588
Die you British colonizer. We need sniper zones all across England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland to deal with monarchist army scum like you.

>>2359608
>Die you British colonizer.
you're actually in breach of the online safety act rn


>>2359506
Bullshit mate. Your supreme court just ruled that trans women are male even with GRS and a legal sex change. Every third article out of the UK these days is some new trans obsessed bullshit by the government. transhumanisters have it bad here but at least you can HRT without a decade long wait-list and young trans people aren't left to die

>>2359608
>>2359584
Comrades Lenin was in exile for a time. Sometimes people in the movement will have to move for their safety. If staying and fighting is worth it to you do it

>>2359584
you know when you support bringing in millions of Africans and middle Easterners, thas not helping your cause? You understand that don't you?

>>2359588
There are no British values to hate. I invited you to list them and you deflected because you know I'm right.

File: 1751139174493.jpg (96.48 KB, 896x812, 20250628_163059.jpg)

We should all go to Akehurst's Town hall with Pahlavi lmao

supporting the underdog
summer holidays
putting up with changeable weather
talking about the fucking weather
sharing ideas over a drink
inventing things
curtain twitching
reading


It's like asking a goldfish to describe what water is, it's everywhere.

>>2359349
And it was a BRITISH JEW who invented fish and chips!

>>2359643
what the fuck is a fish and chip?

MPs that have openly stated they support Palestine Action:

>Jeremy Corbyn - Independent Alliance

>Zarah Sultana - Labour (currently suspended)
>Richard Burgon - Labour (currently suspended)
>Apsana Begum - Labour (currently suspended)
>Diane Abbott - Labour
>John McDonell - Labour
>Kim Johnson - Labour
>Nadia Whittome - Labour
>Siân Berry - Green Party
>Ellie Chowns - Green Party
>Liz Saville-Roberts - Plaid Cymru

Does Sir Keir plan on sending all these people to prison on terrorist charges?
Because according to the law proscribing PA, should it pass, they would all be criminal terrorists.

>>2359645
WHEN I SAY TWO TIER
YOU SAY KEiR

TWO TIER

>>2359644
>Citizenship status: return hub

>>2359542
>How is this any different from the Nuremberg Rallies?
Throwback to the time Rachel R*ley called the Durham Miners' Gala a nazi rally. Poshos hate it when the plebs get angry.

>>2359665
>Glastonbury
>plebs
I agree with your overall point but at this stage the median income for a Glastonbury attendee has got to be at least £60k/yr. In fact the entire event has just become an occasion for poshos to clap like seals as rappers with net worths in the millions cry about how hard their lives supposedly are.


>>2359630
Someone let the London Kurds know this is happening they will be having words lmao.

>>2359631
The uniquely British concept of summer holidays. I mean for fuck sakes.

>>2359631
You couldn’t even say blood pudding or beans on toast or cask ale?

>>2359645
American here. Incoming Reform government come next general election. Y’all are having a Biden moment except worse, much much worse. At least Biden did the Student Loan relief and the child tax credit but y’all are getting all the cuts, with the genocide going on and pushed by Gestapo Starmer.

>>2359734
Shut the fuck up and fuck off. Burger radlib faggot.

>>2359706
oh it's got to be unique now does it?

The end of this discussion is that there is nothing unique about any culture. So fuck it all? Is that where you want to go with this? Bit of a miserable end to it don't you think?

>>2359680
>look I found this jewish haterag
fuck yourself with it.

>>2359743
there are subtle differences, even with basic everyday things lie etymology. Yes language changes with its use, but that surely doesn't mean shit on the past because Stormzy™ came up with a new way to say 'stab'.

>>2359631
None of these are "values", this is arguably worse than the official list of non-british non-values.

>Supporting the underdog

The closest to a value, not unique, very common.
>summer holidays
Almost universal, not a value.
>Putting up with changeable weather
A cultural trait to the point of cliche, but not a value. Frankly, a tautological one: how do you live here and not put up with the weather? If you can't put up with it, you don't live here. The Germans put up with German weather, the Hawaiians with Hawaiian weather, and the British with (ugh! Typical!) British weather.
>talking about the fucking weather
Activity, not a value.
>Sharing ideas over a drink
Activity, not a value, not uniquely British
>inventing things
Activity, not a value, not uniquely British.
>curtain twitching
Activity, not a value
>reading
Activity, not a value, not uniquely British and indeed if this thread is much to go by, fairly uncommon in Britain. Not something we particularly culturally value either - frankly yanks seem to put more stock in the magical power of books.

I liked the Little Simz album

>>2359349
>this country has no values, heritage, or history
erm…
what? 😂

>>2359680
>reading
<Activity, not a value
poncy snobs like yourself revere the act of 'being read' on a subject. Sitting in front of a bookshelf with all your accomplishments in place of a personality.

Re: the new head of mi6

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2025/06/links-6-18-2025.html#comment-4231372

<Colonel Smithers June 18, 2025 at 7:29 am

>Thank you, Yves.

>Further to the links about MI6 and Canuckistan, please let me recount a chat with dad yesterday night.


>Some readers may recall my mentions of dad working in Saudi Arabia.


>I mentioned the new head of MI6, Blaise Metreveli. That sparked an anecdote. Dad worked in / from Riyadh from late 1992 to early 2015, including at the Armed Forces Hospital. Some years before his arrival, a Metreveli ran and taught radiology there and around the region, not just the kingdom. The professor returned from Hong Kong and London from time to time to lecture in the 1990s and noughties.


>Before the radiologist introduced himself, dad thought he may be of Italian origin. He said he was of Ukrainian origin. However, veterans / older colleagues in Riyadh also remembered him as using the surname Borkovski and saying he was of Polish origin.


>That professor appears to be the father of the chief spook.


>It’s interesting that Yves mentions an organisation in decline when a woman is appointed or runs. That was said a few weeks ago with regard to Kemi Badenoch and the Tories. The glass cliff was used to describe.



<Revenant June 18, 2025 at 8:52 am


>Aye, good to have this confirmed from personal history. It matches the Lord Bebo post.


<“She’s not British (or Georgian as her last name) by origin, she’s from Hong Kong. Her dad, after serving in the British army, was head of the radiology department at the local university, CUHK – here’s a mention in his scientific papers, for example.


<And he’s not Metreveli, he’s Konstantin Dobrovolsky, the naturalization record is available, page 9354, the very top. Before naturalization, her ancestors had a Nansen passport, which they received for taking valuables out of the USSR.


<In general, it’s very clear who and against whom they will work, according to tradition. Congratulations on your appointment, Bella Konstantinovna Dobrovolskaya.”


https://nitter.poast.org/MyLordBebo/status/1934692730262741274#m

>It is worrying that she has Ukrainian antecedents rather than Russian. It suggests the UK is going the way of the Vindmans, Nulands and Freelands. As I wrote before, when you know the background and you look at her photograph, shes a beautiful killer Natasha….

>>2359749
I heard of an old Welsh custom of leaving both the front and back doors of a house open at new years, to let bad spirits pass through.

These are the things. Most have already been lost, but it's completely wrong to be so loathing of our own journey to this point.

>>2359684
BASTANI is already looking into it

>>2359749
define "values" and give some examples, so we can compare that with what exists in britain

>>2359736
Lmao y’all are fucked. Cope.

>>2359770
I wonder if we dropped that cunt off in the middle of some random African country he'd just fit right in, no problem. Eating people to gain their power is an activity, not a value after all.

>>2359773
well he wouldnt fit in because he is a cultureless white man and africans are extremely cultured. havent you tried their spicy food before? mind-blowing stuff.

Imagine being so mad you can’t even enjoy Jollof rice and a pint

>>2359743
It doesn't have to be unique, but where the fuck are you comparing it to that doesn't have summer holidays? Antarctica?

If you're talking vague generalities you can say Brits are more introverted than yanks and more extroverted than Finns and it's not pure nonsense, but values are something more than that: purported Australian egalitarianism is a value, American rugged individualism is a value, Other countries could also claim those things, but they are possible values. Britain - really, Scotland and England and the rest - doesn't have a national idea built on values, because it's the bastard result of an ancient monarchy, not a country founded on a purported set of ideals (US, Australia), not a post-revolutionary country (France, China) and not defined against its own warmongering past (Germany). Scotland vaguely tries to set up the idea it can be a normal little country, that's their attempt at a national idea, but England ("Britain") struggles woefully. A past, a glorious, shameful, glorious past, sure, but no future. No value and no values.

File: 1751143849222.jpeg (2.19 KB, 148x148, download.jpeg)

>>2359784
>and in our world of plenty
>we can spread a smile of joy
oh wait, knives and forks are Western aren't they, as is sitting at a table.

>>2359787
in my gastro pub they serve bangers and mash

>>2359789
We live on a very nothern country. our winters are fucking shite. Even our summers can be not that great. Summer holidays are a big part of our culture. You come across as a foreigner tbh mate.

>>2359789
britain has no culture, so anyone can be british. would that be a claim? or are non-brits inherently exotic and fascinating creatures?

>>2359767
I'd accept many of the things listed as customs, and in general I can accept there are Scottish, Welsh, English, and Irish/Ulster customs and culture. I find values much harder, and I cannot accept that they are unified by "Britishness" anymore. Britain is a long dead empire (50s at the latest, bought out by America Inc) and a slightly more recently murdered national economy. (Gone before the Berlin wall fell). What's left are a few historic nations imprisoned within its corpse.

>>2359803
I don't really give a flying fuck how you are going to categorize them, it's things that make us who we are and things that are in danger of being lost.

>>2359807
done it myself look
>categorize
is a yankism

>>2359791
Bangers and mash are good, tikki masala is good, oxtail is good, no contradiction

>>2359810
now, imagine if one million amerilards started moving here each year. Opening drive through Wendy's in every town. What then?

>>2359811
well, its contradictory when you get to looking at pub menus. ive never had jerk chicken and a pint in one go. youll more likely get pork scratchings, which is a real shame. thats why i actually like a lot of the blairite gastro pubs that have been built.

>>2359807
They're overwhelmingly killed by the US, but you're only worried about the immigrants.

>>2359825
so it's okay to reject Hank but not Abdul?

Americans don't boil water with kettles, if they boil it at all they use a microwave. This is partly due to their culture (recently imported) of paying over the odds for some ridiculous barista coffee. It's also due in part to them having a different voltage standard, causing kettles to take twice as long to boil.

It's the little things.

>>2359542
>>2359549
Keef's def banning this festivals next year

>>2359836
queef is importing 1 million displaced Palestinians next year isn't he

File: 1751146996299.jpg (258.44 KB, 1011x1348, 20250628_184244.jpg)

THE LEFT HAS GONE COMPLETELY INSANE

>>2359934
Why are Tel Aviv involved in BBC policy.

>>2359745
>>look I found this jewish haterag
Holy shit lmao actually delusional.

>>2359843
>causing kettles to take twice as long to boil.
WAit fucking seriously??

>>2359985
people here are so sarcastic I'm going to have to assume you are the same. Soznotsoz

>>2359977
remember eurovision?
everyone's got a thumb up the arse

>>2359983
*repost
why do migrants come here bud?
just for the money I spose is it?
bit of an awkward one to face up to isn't it. If there is nothing to integrate with, then why is it a problem?

>>2360020
Are you legitimately schizophrenic? You called the NS a "Jew haterag" and your response is this.

>>2359761
Reading is not a value. Reading 50 shades of grey is not a part of a national identity.

>>2360022
I didn't read it
I don't really care what the publication is.
It's an online opinion piece claiming Britain has no values, like I said, fuck yourself with it.

>>2360024
blah blah blah

let's just beg to differ on that one. The number of times I get told to read unkle karl's bumper book of hogwash says otherwise.

>>2360024
I got a text from Amazon informing me that a delivery was due, and that I should lock my pets away.

Now.

Why do you think that struck me as interesting? Be honest.

File: 1751151604497.png (1.66 MB, 1440x1440, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2359750
>I liked the Little Simz album
So did i. HBU dappyanon?

Nige will bring back puritanism(For Israel) and ban music.

File: 1751151960520.gif (44.69 KB, 220x146, nigel farage.gif)

>>2360043
he's always right there when there is a divisive issue to take advantage of, but when it's time to get to work actually doing something, he's gone.

>>2360025
>I don't really care what the publication is.
Wait wait let me get this straight, I critique consumerist tweecore nationalism, you say the New Statesman is a "Jew haterag", then claim you didn't read it. I take back what i said about schizophrenia I have seen schizophrenics with a better grasp on reality than you.

>>2360048
I'm. not. reading.
Your fucking propaganda shite
OKAY?

>>2360048
>getting triggered by bunting
prick

File: 1751152807417.png (49.43 KB, 377x327, nubriton.png)

Feels like every /leftybritpol/ thread is dominated by the one weird /pol/ack with a notable adult massage utility collection. I entirely don't care about migrants, heritage, or any of this stuff really i mostly only care about class based issues. Can we start ignoring him from the next one?

>>2360058
>nu bri'un
like how MLE is spoken - with contempt.

>>2360058
weird how they're never half white, or half English isn't it?

File: 1751191379795.jpeg (19.83 KB, 620x337, 1600164311220.jpeg)

>>2360058
>his cultural background offends me
>let's shun him
Dangerously based, faggetsan

Apparently it's hate speech to be opposed to the IDF
What protected characteristic does a genocidal foreign army fall under exactly?
The BBC, Sky, all the papers, police, politicians all losing their shit because they've just suddenly realised the public doesn't like people who murder children for fun

>>2360599
They should chant 'Fuck Emily' next.

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>>2360599
>Apparently it's hate speech to be opposed to the IDF
<She does not know
Emily, the opposite is true, you do not want to go down this road.

>>2360599
I guess it wasn't an actual death threat, like saying death to the licence fee or something. He probably had his lawyers give it a once over to be sure.

Remember the Scientology cult?
Xenu, Tom Cruise, Thetans, aliens dropping nuclear bombs in volcanoes?
In July last year they applied for a court order to make it illegal to protest them in the UK
The case isn't quite closed yet, but the local council for the place their headquarters is based just put in a recommendation that protests be allowed, so it's looking good
Cults have always been really fascinating to me for some reason, idk if anyone else here also finds them fascinating?

>>2360052
>>2360049
It must be hard being youse.

>>2360770
>In July last year they applied for a court order to make it illegal to protest them in the UK
Those exist???

>>2360898
They write these shitty opinion pieces to rile people up. Outrage farming.

File: 1751227180019.png (2.18 MB, 1942x1244, galloway_letters.png)

I still find George Galloway's different leaflets to white and muslim voters funny

>>2360956
>everyone is the same
Gladiators at 6pm with a mars bar chopped up into slices with a cup of tea.

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>>2360640
yep, called it.

>>2360956
the time he sent a bunch around implying that his muslim opponent was an alkie while being weirdly emphatic about how he had never touched a DROP of alcohol was also funny.

>>2360910
Liking chicken run (a good film!) is neither a personality nor a national identity. Does that rile you up?

>>2361056
Wrong by election campaign.

>>2361090
It has some strong themes of national spirit, though, The Great Escape and so on. I'd say it was very emotive of our national identity.

Of course these days one of the chickens would likely have a turban on, what is the significance of that do you think?

our "national" identity was invented by Labour in 1945 because we'd mortgaged off the empire and needed to re-design the country as a viable national economy. all the postwar nationalisations had basically fuck-all to do with socialism and everything to do with "the private sector are incompetent and imperially integrated in ways that will slow down the pivot to making sure the amount of goods entering this island more or less equal the amount of goods leaving it", and for all the hype around the NHS (the last remaining institution of the former "British nation", hence the blowjobs and the constant attempts to kill it), we spent more on warfare than on welfare (taken broadly, including health and education) until well into the Wilson era. Britain became a coherent national economy and remained so until the 1980s. (even the SNP surge of the 1970s suddenly makes sense in this light: North Sea Oil suddenly offered a potential alternative future for a Scottish national economy. That was ultimately squandered, but ultimately rebounded because by 2007 there was no national economy to speak of "how does Scotland exist outside the British economy" is a nonsense question - there is no British economy, just a global economy, and Scotland's already part of it.)

Thatcher took an island self sufficient in agriculture and about to be self-sufficient in energy and turned it into nothing. Even the once in all-history windfall of North Sea Oil was used purely to fund the destruction of the national economy. As good materialists, good Marxists, I'm sure you all know how down-stream from economics so many superstructural forces are. It does not take a genius to calculate that when you destroy the British economy, fragmenting it into a rich City and a bunch of poor ex-industrial regions, the British nation goes with it. You may say: "oh, but deindustrialisation happened everywhere!" as a cheap counterargument, but consider that Britain is not a "natural" nation, it is 3-5 nations wearing a trench coat. If a United Europe is seen as some kind of neoliberal abomination overlayed on the old Europe, Britain is some kind of former-socdem abomination overlayed on the old British Isles segment of the British Empire.

None of this, in theory, means there cannot be a British nation again. You can create and destroy nations on a whim if you're good at it - what the fuck is a Singaporean? An American? Even the Taiwanese are giving it a good go - But you can't just keep on trucking like nothing has happened after taking a mortal wound like Britain did. Britain is an ex-nation, if you attempt to just bluff as though a national identity already exists you are setting yourself up for ridicule (Gordon Brown - bless his heart - tried!). Only a certain sub-set of English and a chunk of immigrants (how ironic) truthfully think of themselves as British, and it's more a statement of arrogance - of forgetting the other nations exist and treating the terms as synonyms - than of real, felt identity. To their ears "British" is just the respectable middle class way of saying you're English. The celtic periphery is useful only insofar as it lets them ignore the lower-class scum people who really are their countrymen.
(You can also track the decline by watching the disappearing spine of Scottish Unionists, who've gone from standing up for Scottish particularism within Britain to standing up for England's right to crush Scotland because it's bigger, but that's another story.)

>>2361976
>our "national" identity was invented by Labour in 1945
I don't agree with that. A strawman the kids will call it.

>>2361978
We went from being an empire to being a backwater, I feel that required a new identity

>>2360956
Why did his campaign write 'for Rochdale' in such a cheesy looking font lol

>>2361981
our history spans thousands of years, you're pigeonholing that into recent history because it suits you.

>>2361978
Do you think it's a coincidence that Churchill spoke so often of England? Did he just prefer the "d" sound to the "n" sound, perhaps? Or do you think he regarded himself as British imperially, and English nationally?

You're the one who wants to wash away thousands of years of messy history and contested identity (did Scots feel "British" when they rioted and burned copies of the treaty of union on finding out their ruling class had sold them out? Did the Welsh feel "British" when conquered? When are the Irish coming back, since surely, they too are just wavering Brits waiting to return to the fold..?) to replace it with some whig nonsense where King Arthur regarded himself as basically the same thing as Charles III.

>>2361976
>You can create and destroy nations on a whim if you're good at it
soooooo
Africa then? I guess they just don't wanna

>>2361991
Why are you obsessing over that half jew?

>Do you think it's a coincidence that Churchill spoke so often of England?

no, most people in the U.K at the time were English, like 90+% of them.

>>2360599
almost as if hate speech laws are entirely selective to incriminate political prisoners? 🤔

>>2360058
>i dont care about britain
we know.

History is always deployed in service of the present. If by some act of god you had a socialist Britain, it would pick and choose the best moments from thousands of years of murdering feudal repression and brutal aristocratic theft to show precedent for itself and underscore what it values.

>>2361992
Mostly an economic problem - just like Britain, without a coherent national economy it's difficult to have a nation. That said they've actually succeeded reasonably well in some senses: Africa doesn't have many wars that've resulted in changed borders, which is pretty fucking impressive when you contrast Europe. (Who gives a fuck what side of Charlemagne's family Alsace-Lorraine belongs to anyway?)

>>2361995
And what of the Scots, the Welsh, and the Northern Irish? Remember: we are speaking here of Britain, not England. If Churchill - and Labour - are to speak for England then why should we not draw the rational inference: they were English, they were speaking for England, and "Britain" as a damp island nation off the coast of France had yet to really be invented.
(I mean remember, at this time the Scottish Self Government Party - one of two parties that'd become the SNP - just wanted Scotland to be a separate dominion like Canada or Australia or New Zealand, while being perfectly at ease with being British imperially. Remember also, at this time, that NI was a weird case with its own parliament.)

I'm confident that you're English, that your feelings for Britain are really feelings for England, and that your main grievance if the peripheral parts of this island fucked off would be that it made the map uglier and made England look small on the world stage. If they were all widely loathed little countries and their departure would make England look better, you'd be all for it.

>>2362007
>And what of the Scots, the Welsh, and the Northern Irish?
90% of the meat he wanted to throw into the grinder were from English lads. I shouldn't need to explain this further

>Mostly an economic problem - just like Britain, without a coherent national economy it's difficult to have a nation.
so the economy comes first, and then you have a nation that just materialists, maybe, but who cares either way. And who cares what happens to it?

You're out of your fucking mind.

>>2361976
>britain is oriented around the post-war myth
i completely agree, but its not just britain, its the whole western world. thats why "nazi" is synonymous with "satan" in today's "secular" landscape. only nazis commit war crimes; the allies perform their duty (70 million dead europeans later). we support nazi death cultists in ukraine, but dont let that distract you either…
>thatcher
she didnt just financialise our national assets but also sold off our social housing to estate agencies, leaving us as feudal dependents to private speculation.
>national identity
it is true that as things stand, there is no coherent national identity, because we have no national basis of production. the error of the right is in thinking you can expel foreign labour while importing foreign capital. the only national strategy is re-industrialisation, self-sufficiency and internal markets therefore. there is no MP which stands for this however.

Roll up Roll up
Any takers
>>2361953

>>2361090
tbf the claymation models have british physiognomy

>>2362014
*materialises

>>2362019
>The Humpty Dumpty Circus is a lost short stop-motion trick film directed by J. Stuart Blackton and Albert E. Smith, the Anglo-American founders of Vitagraph Studios.
just look under the rocks and you'll find more history

>>2362021
made in 1898 according to judeopaedia

>>2360020
migrants enrich cultureless and valueless britain with spicy food and exotic music. what dont you understand, gammon? they are saving us from ourselves.

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a reminder of when our law enforcers tased a 92 year old amputee with delirium, which led to his death 3 weeks later. they didnt get nicked for this either.

>>2362043
noticing neuron activated

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some government statistics:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-september-2024/how-many-people-claim-asylum-in-the-uk
>Between 2004 and 2020, there were between 22,000 and 46,000 people claiming asylum in the UK each year. However, since the second half of 2021, there has been a noticeable increase, reaching a peak of almost 103,000 in the year ending March 2023.
>Since 2020, there has been an increase in people arriving in the UK without leave to enter via small boats across the English Channel. Almost all small boat arrivals claim asylum (99% in the year ending September 2024). As shown in Figure 1, 28,050 people claiming asylum in the year ending September 2024 had arrived on a small boat (28% of the total). The remaining claimants will have entered either through other irregular routes (such as lorries or shipping containers); through the common travel area without valid permission to enter; or through regular routes with either valid leave to enter (such as using a visa) or using fraudulent documents. Internally matched data for asylum claims suggests that around 20% of people claiming asylum in 2023 held a valid visa within 7 days of lodging an asylum claim.
>Albanian nationals claiming asylum more than tripled (+259%) between the year ending September 2021 and the year ending September 2022, due to a high number of Albanian small boat arrivals in the summer of 2022.
>70% of people claiming asylum in the year ending September 2024 were male.

so at the current rate, we have around 100,000 asylum seekers entering the country every year:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-september-2024/how-many-people-claim-asylum-in-the-uk
>99,790 people claimed asylum in the UK in the year ending September 2024, which was 1% more than in the year ending September 2023. Of these, 77,066 were main applicants and 22,724 were dependants.

wtf i think refugees are subhumans now, we need to give nige a type 26 frigate so he can ram all them boats and sink them, that'll stop them getting here and give them a well needed bath two.

>>2362075
>refugees
albanian refugees..?
<Albanian nationals claiming asylum more than tripled (+259%) between the year ending September 2021 and the year ending September 2022, due to a high number of Albanian small boat arrivals in the summer of 2022.
a war must have broken out in eastern europe.

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>>2362077
The CPINS indicate that a large proportion of asylum applications from Albania will be made on the basis of being a victim of trafficking or blood feud, being targeted on the basis of sexual orientation, or domestic violence (the fifth relates to the extent to which those seeking protection can rely on the Albanian state to help them). This is supported by the experience of those working with Albanian asylum seekers.

Trafficking is a significant issue affecting those seeking asylum from Albania. Some young people are trafficked internally within Albania, and then out of the country into mainland Europe or the UK. The reasons for this may relate to sexual, criminal or labour exploitation, or result from family debt to informal lenders linked to organised crime. Other young people seeking to flee serious harm in Albania fall into the control of trafficking gangs as the only route out of Albania to safety, or as they travel alone through Europe to seek asylum.

Some young people find themselves in debt-bondage situations where they are informed by the gang that smuggled them to the UK that they must work to repay the cost of their journey to the UK. Children and young people affected by poverty and other vulnerabilities may be at particular risk of this form of harm[4].

Although much evidence has been provided to show how women are at risk from this form of crime, organisations working on the ground say that boys and young men are also at risk, and that this is under-recognised due to stigma and lack of recognition of male vulnerability to trafficking.

The evidence underpinning the government’s own country guidance on trafficking of boys and young men clearly indicates the risk they face[5], and this is supported by the fact that Albanian boys and men have been recognised as genuine victims of trafficking under the UK National Referral Mechanism for the protection of victims of modern slavery at almost the same rate as females[6].

>>2362079
>The CPINS indicate that a large proportion of asylum applications from Albania will be made on the basis of being a victim of trafficking
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/commentaries/albanian-asylum-seekers-in-the-uk-and-eu-a-look-at-recent-data/
<In 2022, 12% of Albanian citizens arriving via small boat were referred to the UK’s modern slavery system.
so not exactly a "large proportion". also, could i get the numbers you acquired from a suitable source, please?
>small boats because of a lack of legal entry
>Other young people seeking to flee serious harm in Albania fall into the control of trafficking gangs as the only route out of Albania to safety, or as they travel alone through Europe to seek asylum.
yet if we see these statistics:
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/commentaries/albanian-asylum-seekers-in-the-uk-and-eu-a-look-at-recent-data/
<In 2022, the UK received more Albanian asylum applicants than other European countries (Figure 2). Most EU countries received fewer than 20 Albanians claiming asylum in both 2021 and 2022. The rise in Albanian asylum seekers to the UK is thus unusual when compared to the experience of EU member states.
we see that asylum is not claimed in the first safe country they arrive in, but they are purposrfully going to the UK. why is that? is it because we are the safest country in europe, or something else? we also see many small boats coming from france into britain. why would refugees quickly flee france for britain?

>>2362070
>Asylum from Vietnam
What

>>2362088
>Most EU countries received fewer than 20 Albanians claiming asylum in both 2021 and 2022
>posts chart showing 6735 albanians claimed asylum in france in 2022
slapdash.

>>2362116
france: 6,735
UK: 15,925
why do you think there is a disparity?

>>2362123
i care for the disparity about as much as you cared for maintaining thematic consistency in your argument. if you're going to try and slip a dodgy implication past the reader, you can't undercut it in the pictures. people look at the pictures first, dummy.

>>2362114
>Asylum from France
What

>>2362125
>i dont care why people are making a claim for british resources
of course not, the more we are fleeced, the better, right, "comrade"?

>>2362125
looking at the charts abd the claims,

there are 27 EU member countries
and 13 of them took in more than 20 Albanians.

So the statement is true.

>>2362142
he doesnt care about facts, he cares about silencing opposition to the status quo.

Is it over for Faragé??

>>2362138
France hasn't occupied Vietnam in 70 years babes.

>>2362151
pure charisma

>>2362141
i do not regard myself as being fleeced. the asylum budget is a small part of our minuscule overseas-development-aid budget (yes, we really do fraudulently consider asylum payments to be "development assistance") and it halved between 2023 and 2024. we spend about £1,200 billion and of that, 2 billion goes to asylum seekers. (and, for scale, about 1 billion goes on the scottish government blundering a regional ferry contract i doubt you've heard of.)

>>2362142
i was surprised someone didn't go with that, the idiot pedant option. the purpose of highlighting that "Most EU countries received fewer than 20 Albanians" is to make it seem like everyone else is taking 20 and we're taking 15k, when the reality is that the bigger countries are taking double-digit figures, nobody gives a fuck that luxembourg and san marino aren't taking that many, and it's hardly a shock that no albanians want to live in fucking finland. that disingenuous implication collapses if you include a chart showing that france are taking numbers of roughly the same magnitude. the lying i can take, but not the incompetence.

>>2362145
the status quo is constantly seething about refugees. keir starmer doesn't have a good word to say for them, his predicessor Blair used to coordinate headlines about cracking down on them with The Sun newspaper. i'm not some bleeding heart - i don't give a fuck. if truckload after truckload of albanian mafia are pouring into this country to steal and swindle and turn into gypsies and occupy the local park pissing off homeowners who were just about to sell and now have to wait for them to fuck off, i do not care, it wouldn't add up to the criminality and the waste and the personally-insulting incompetence exuded by the average MP.

>>2362155
>the idiot pedant option
you told that other poster to get his facts straight because people look at the graphics first. I did, and it was correct. Take it back.

>>2362151
British as a bacon sarnie that bloke

File: 1751284824827.jpg (168.36 KB, 1200x721, s-l1200.jpg)

Thoughts on this?
Seems fair to me, all things considered.

>>2362157
i did not tell him to get his facts straight, i said his attempt to mislead was slapdash.

>>2362160
the graphics are in support of his claim.
You glibly dismissed his claim
>if you're going to try and slip a dodgy implication past the reader, you can't undercut it in the pictures.

the pictures support the claim. Take it back.

>>2362161
implication

>>2362164
Heard you want your dignity back?
Shut the fuck up

>>2362151
topkek. terrible mood all day i couldn't shake. Turns out all it takes is the reminder this hellhole island is finally falling apart on itself. :)
TURNING AND TURNING IN THE WIDENING GYRE

>>2362141
What "British resources"? Do we have a sovereign wealth fund I wasn't aware of? How do I make a claim?

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>>2362155
>i do not regard myself as being fleeced
>2 billion goes to asylum seekers
so your internal feelings contradict external reality? as expected. this is not your personal error though, but the nature of epistemology. empirical reality can contradict statistical reality for example, but when statistics come in, we must conform ourselves to the higher truth. for example, an average fella might not experience climate change directly, but when statistically modeled, the facts displays a higher reality of global warming. only lower life forms lack the mode of abstraction so as to be unable to accept statistics.
>Most EU countries received fewer than 20 Albanians" is to make it seem like everyone else is taking 20 and we're taking 15k, when the reality is that the bigger countries are taking double-digit figures
double digits vastly differ from pentuple digit figures. and is britain one of the "bigger" countries in europe? it has the biggest purse, which is what you are avoiding saying for some reason.
>france are taking numbers of roughly the same magnitude.
😂😂😂 we are taking over DOUBLE the amount of france. do you not know basic arithmetic? ill refresh your memory:
france: 6,735
UK: 15,925
UK is taking around 236% more albanians than france and over 600% more than germany. these countries are bigger than the UK, so whats going on here?
>the status quo is constantly seething about refugees. keir starmer doesn't have a good word to say for them
didnt you see the recent news that he has entirely backtracked on his anti-immigrant comments?
>i'm not some bleeding heart - i don't give a fuck.
yes, you dont care about this country. you have already established this.
>if pakistani grooming gangs were raping young english girls i wouldnt care
yes, we know, mate. keep your head in the sand, yeah?
>it wouldn't add up to the criminality and the waste and the personally-insulting incompetence exuded by the average MP.
i agree. imprison parliament and the deport the illegal immigrants. deal?

>>2362186
where does government spending come from?

>>2362188
UK economic activity, and so?

>>2362191
the correct answer is taxes, pooled from british labour. these are monetised and converted into public spending opportunities.

>>2362193
Sure sure I meant taxes on that activity obviously


>>2362197
you print money by creating a deficit, which is paid for by taxes. if you dont tax, you create inflation, whuch as keynes confers, is just another form of taxation.
>>2362195
right, so british resources, or british labour.

anyway, sir two tier kid starver has an announcement: universities need to stop letting transgender women into women's bathrooms because the supreme court says they're not women. they need to stop mucking about and comply with the law.

now the awkward rider is that they're not actually breaking the law because university bathrooms, like most public bathrooms, aren't legally single-sex spaces (they're single sex by convention, but existing law doesn't give a fuck what sign you put on the loos so long as you've got one. the tories specifically wanted to change the law in 2024 to require new commercial properties to have single sex bathrooms.) but when has the law ever mattered?

>>2362272
just have a room with one big hole in the middle that everyone hangs their arse over and does their business into. It's not like women ever actually sit down on these toilets anyway, I know your secret.

what does keir hope to achieve by bashing trans people, immigrants, crying about kneecap and banning any groups opposed to the zionists' campaign of genocide?
does he honestly believe he can win the far right over from both reform and the tories? why does he want to do that?
I'm not saying anything new but I really want to understand what the fuck, if anything goes off in his head.
also notice how quickly they've memory-holed / refused to talk about him getting his door firebombed by a group of ukrainian rent boys & male models, and how he then turned up to the NATO summit without wearing his wedding ring?
Its totally okay to be gay but I suspect he's got some romance issues ongoing too.



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