What you need to know
• Sixth day of conflict: Iran’s Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, issued a warning at dawn on social media, telling Israel: “The battle begins.” Hours earlier, US President Donald Trump called the supreme leader an “easy target” and said that America’s “patience is wearing thin.” He also demanded Iran’s “unconditional surrender.”
• US weighs options: Two US officials told CNN that Trump is warming to the idea of using US military assets to strike Iranian nuclear facilities. A senior Israeli official told CNN that Israel is waiting to learn whether Trump will help finish the job of destroying Iran’s nuclear program.
• Deadly strikes: Israel said early Wednesday it was carrying out a series of strikes on Tehran. Israelis were also warned about incoming Iranian missiles, and explosions were heard in Tel Aviv.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/israel-iran-conflict-06-18-25-intl-hnkJoint Statement of Labor and Social Organizations in Opposition to the War and the Current Dangerous and Critical Conditions”The military conflict between the two fascist governments of Israel and the Islamic Republic continues. The war, which has so far left more than a thousand dead and injured on both sides; has displaced millions of people and created critical conditions for all people, especially for the most vulnerable segments of society, children and the elderly. In short, society has been pushed to the brink of a more dangerous precipice than ever.
“We have shouted and said over and over again:
“We do not want war or killing, we want lasting prosperity,” but the government, by continuing its warmongering and greedy for obtaining weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear weapons, has created and imposed these “hellish” conditions on society in order to continue the policy of “throwing Israel into the sea” and fighting the “great devil of America.”
Society is extremely inflamed and in danger. The current situation has gone beyond poverty and insecurity and has become a full-blown crisis.
The war that began on the first day with the slogan of destroying the IRGC leaders and the Khatam headquarters and other leaders has today entered a more dangerous stage in a military conflict. To the extent that the criminal government of Israel is brazenly threatening to burn Tehran.
The killing and attacks on civilians by both sides are condemned.
The people do not want war and we believe that in order to stop this war, the grounds and infrastructure that caused it must be destroyed. Therefore, we, the signatories of this statement, declare:
We, the people, do not want weapons of mass destruction and nuclear weapons, we consider any nuclear activity of the Islamic Republic to be dangerous and detrimental to the people.
All of this has been achieved by plundering our lives and livelihoods, and its consequences have been the spread of poverty and insecurity in society and the region. Our demand is to stop all these projects and end the war.
We, the people, do not want poverty, we do not want insecurity, we do not want so much discrimination, oppression, and exploitation. Our response to these miserable and horrific situations and our solution to save human lives is the victorious continuation of our revolution. We, the people, will not allow them to suppress our demands and block our path of progress under the pretext of war, and to intensify arrests and repression under the shadow of war, and to expand the scope of killing and execution with accusations such as "Israeli spy."
We, the workers, retirees, teachers, truck drivers, nurses, bakers, wage earners, farmers and various sections of the people, have fought for welfare, livelihood and freedom, and in the continuation of our protests and in the dangerous conditions we find ourselves in, we have pursued our demands and stand united against war and warmongers.
Our solution in these circumstances and in response to these warmongers is strikes and general and nationwide rallies against all kinds of oppression, discrimination, censorship and repression.
No more war, exploitation and misery. This is our final warning.
It is time for us to work together and stand united with the movement to defend life and livelihood, defend freedom of expression, association, strike, assembly, protest and the release of all political prisoners, against warmongers, reactionaries and terrorists.
Let us organize and become one voice to advance our struggles and realize our human demands.
We will stand by until this catastrophic situation is reversed!
No to war, no to warmongering governments
Woman, life, freedom
1_ Kermanshah Electrical and Metal Association
2_ Don't Execute
3- Iranian Teachers' Union Challenge
4- Dadkhahan
5_ Pensioners' Council
6- Nurses' Protest Organizing Council
7- Contract Oil Workers' Protest Organizing Council
8- Informal Oil Workers' Protest Organizing Council (Third Party)
9_ Defenders of Children's Rights
10_ Iranian Women's Voice
https://t.me/shoranaft >>2336631Just in case.
retard omits the text:
QUESTION (which Putin agrees)
>Question: How did your informal meeting with Xi Jinping go? Your aide said it took place in a super-narrow format but was attended by Defence Minister Andrei Belousov and Security Council Secretary Sergei Shoigu. Did you discuss Ukraine? What would you personally consider convincing evidence of Ukraine’s readiness for talks? Earlier both you and Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov repeatedly said that the Western partners could no longer be trusted.PUTIN>It wasn’t us who behaved in this way. These were our partnersCRRRRYYYY BOZOOOO
>>2336641no
im seeing lots of people say they are doing an assad, china wanted to give them a free port and they just fucked around with red tape, same with russia and the planes
>>2336642>im seeing lots of people say they are doing an assadIran is not Syria. Iran has decades withstanding excruciating sanctions, only "partially relieved" during Obama era, with much more resilience and much more advanced military, and much more larger population.
Syria's population couldn't resist the psychological impact of not having anything because of the sanctions.
to say that someone can pull an Assad on Iran is….
…. lack of absolute knowledge of things.
>>233666025 years since Iraq has been destroyed
When revolution?
10 years since Libya has been destroyed
When revolution?
10 years since Syria has been destroyed
When revolution?
>>2336623>The Zios have been doing this for millennia>millenniaAhistorical bait. Zionism is an ethno-nationalist political ideology from the 19th century.
>PhilosI can't speak for everyone but Marxism has no love for religion in general, let alone Judaism.
>>2336547>the goal literally is defeatismin an imperialist war
>why the fuck would we support literally any side of a bourgeois warmarx did all the time, are you actually stupid or did you just know that calling iran imperialist is even more dumb than saying it of russia
>>2336625Martyr Complex, Persecutory Delusion, and Crucified Messiah Syndrome (eh, maybe it should've gone with Messiah Complex) are too open-ended to capture what you want.
Reactive Identity, meh. There's a named cognitive bias known as reactive devaluation, where one tends to devalue the correctness of an idea if it comes from a source one dislikes, but unless you can reverse and beat this around a bit, it's probably not what you're seeking.
Galileo Gambit looks like the best fit of those offered.
There's also something on the tip of my tongue that I once read in a book on mathematical cranks (circle-squarers).
>>2336650I know all of this. obviously this anon
>>2336642 is either misleading or being misled.
>>2336613People say that meme warfare and online discourse don't matter but now you have the US president using random people's Xeets as part of his official cause belli to invade Iran with no regard of whether they're true or not.
The Internet is now more real than reality it seems.
>>2336556>China may also be thinking that a weaker Iran would be more easily dominated by themnot the way you meant it but its possible they will stay neutral because a more secular iran would be a more stable partner for development
its a big risk though because it could easily be decades of isis. they will probably defer to other allies like pakistan and back them up
>>2336571Russia might also stay neutral to enjoy high gas prices
aw it was true, and it was the Iranians.
>>2336714he didn't say so, but yes, the Iranian state prays upon the existence of their identity as a base of their ideological fuel. it's their nationalistic ethos that glues all togheter there.
every time I hear Iranians speaking, they talk about being the first state, the first civilization, how much they have endured, how near-extintion events have been overcame.
that's…. unparalleled across the world.
>>2336720Thanks for the answer. I'm the one who asked.
>>2336723 derail attempt detected. Post hidden.
>>2336746sigh. you just summoned another /pol/ raid. now instead of war events the thread will have to be an endless struggle session on whether ZOG is real, whether judaism is the same as zionism, and whether all jews are zionists and whether all zionists are jews, blah blah.
Why did you have to be correct?
>>2336749I don't give a shit, geopolitics generals are 50% /pol/ as it is.
>>2336751You didn't read that essay and it's not arguing that le Jews are le bad. Also it's not being desperate to salvage Judaism to point out that it's idealist to see it as a static thing with ontological existence that drives Jewish behavior in 3000 BC and the 1800s and the 2020s. That's not historical materialism, it's idealism.
>>2336751>In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from JudaismRemind me again why Hitler was so dismissive of Karl Marx? Oh right. Because with antisemitism. Actual antisemitism, which is
not the same as antizionism, a person is guilty of being a Jew not just for being a religious Jew, but for being related to Jews, or beign suspected of being Jewish, whether true or not. I'm don't want to
>salvage Judaism from "The Jewish State.but at the same time I know stealth /pol/ nazis aren't actually against any of the actually bad shit Israel does. They're just jealous it's being done by Israeli supremacists instead of them.
>>2336751Frankly if you haven't been called an antisemite before you're probably a piece of shit chud.
Judaism in the modern day is pretty much synonymous with Zionism and it's so silly the difference between being a "nazi" and being a "reasonable educated person" is just whether you say "Jews" or "Zionists" when criticizing the same fucking people.
I know the nuance there does matter because there are anti-Zionist Jews, but it's just so silly that Israel has basically hijacked Judaism into a death cult seeking to serve as martyrs for the Evangelical End of Days.
>>2336761Hitler hated Marx for being Jewish even though he wasn't a religious Jew, but an Atheist descended from Jewish converts to Protestantism. If nazis killed every Jew it wouldn't be enough because they need to oppose anything they
accuse of being Jewish whether it actually is or not. That's the difference between being a principled Communist anti-zionist and being a /pol/ nazi.
You just want Rhodesia, South Africa, and Nazi Germany back. Those were your Israels, and you don't actually oppose the crimes of Israel, you are jealous that you're not the one committing them.
>>2336739theres not even a consistently agreed upon historical record of the israelites let alone any extensive account of what they believed. the hebrew bible wasnt even committed to text until around the same time as jesus. and the historicity of the specifics of the text & ritual is mostly besides the point anyway. if you really think that the beliefs & practices of judaism (which by all accounts differed even more profoundly in the ancient & medieval world) have remained consistent enough over 2 millenia, thousands of miles of geographical seperation, profound differences in the modes of production across that time & distance, etc etc., in a way that you can call it "the same ideology", i have a bridge to sell you.
it has nothing to do with "not real judaism", it has to do with the kind of continuity youre describing being ahistorical and idealist. there is absolutely no reason that religion & ideology cannot be critiqued in their contemporary instantiation without drawing out these functionally mythical stories about their essence being maintained over the millenia. dress it up however you want, its the same kind of thinking that has people looking for the "origin of the aryan race" in the vedas
>>2336775Do you oppose the following in all situations:
>Racism>Ethnonationalism>Supremacism>Settler-Colonialism>Imperialism>Capitalism>GenocideOr do you only oppose when certain people who aren't you are doing it? Yes or no.
>>2336762Because if you thought about it for 5 fucking seconds you'd realize it doesn't matter what's written in the Torah or Talmud or any of these other ancient books. It's the same reason neocons are wrong about the Islamic world being a mess because of violent passages in the Quran. The same verse will be read and understood differently in the historical context of Bronze Age slave society than it will be in the historical context of feudal or capitalist society.
And what aspects of a religion's doctrinal/textual tradition are downplayed vs emphasized will shift according to economic necessity and the needs of the ruling class in the current mode of production. For example Christianity and Islam were historically against lending at interest but as soon as capitalism began to emerge from within feudalism they started to jettison that.
>>2336798slow down buddy i already got him to disavow genocide. we're waiting for him to say what his solution is, it's not very kind of you to assume
that's his solution (lol)
>>2336793He (or Miller) does this all the time.
When the base gets mad, he sucks them back in with slogans and channels that simp energy into his foreign debacles.
>>2336795>you didn't say what your solution isDisassociating from them would be a start
>>2336798.>Slightly closer than you are to reanimating the corpse of Heinrich Himmler
Is it possible to just not like them and want nothing to do with them? You go your way, I'll go mine? How is that le holocaust?
>>2336667>The lybian prole seeing his country in the X year of NAToid aligned gov against gulf cucked generalYeah, keep the organization going
This is some sadistic reform-revolution carousel meme
>>2336809more like
>>2336792>anon asks a pointed question>>2336799>I answer it and also ask a question>>2336818>Disassociating from them would be a startI don't associate with Judaism because I'm not a Jew. I don't associate with Zionism because I'm not a zionist. I don't buy Israeli products or invest in anything so I'm already practicing boycott and divestment. I don't have political power so I can't practice sanctions.
Long term, the solution to the Jewish religion is for people to stop being Jewish. But my hope is that this will not be because of yet more genocide, but because of re-education of the religious masses (in general) to abandon religion and embrace historical materialism.
And yet when I say this I get accused snarkily of being "JIDF" by anons like
>>2336809 >>2336820so who are you talking to then?
also,
>”anti-jewish”i won’t just bite the bullet, i’ll chew the fuck out of that bullet if you want me to
there is no acceptable “pro-jewish” or “neutral on judaism” view for marxists
judaism will absolutely not survive communism, our advance will bring about the conditions for it’s abolishment and the reactionaries who decide to cling and fight to hold onto this tradition will be put to death
>>2336818>BDSStarted and overwhelmingly made up of leftists btw. How is it that libs, leftists and Marxists are the good goy controlled opposition when they were always the most important force in the anti-Zionist movement?
Even before Israel was actually established it was Jewish Communists that were Zionism's biggest opponents, if you guys actually read that Churchill essay you love to post you'd know he was talking about that from a Zionist pov. From the 1950s on the USSR was the biggest backer of anti-Zionist groups and states in the region. The militant groups in the 70s that put Palestine on the map were all on the left and mostly they were Marxists. In the 80s Zionists were seething at the Soviets because they wouldn't let Russian Jews emigrate to Israel. BDS, Code Pink and every other notable pro-Pal org you can name were founded by Palestinians themselves and/or leftists or Marxists.
The far right engagement with the Palestine movement on the other hand has always been totally parasitic. You don't actually give a shit about what's happening to Palestinians, you're interested in the issue because you see it as an opportunity for you to inject racial antisemitism. Anti-Zionists on the left are "waking up" to the JQ but need a little push to get all the way there and realize that the problem is Jews as a race and the solution is expelling or killing them so that we can have Zionism but for white people. So you just rip off rhetoric from the left, mix it with bullshit and shitcoat anti-Zionism for normies.
>>2336826Ok so you don't support genocide against Jews so you're not a nazi. so let's rewind. you start the conversation quoting marx, a guy whose ideas Hitler dismissed because he was Jewish. How do you regard marx, beyond your quotation of his 1844 work
On The Jewish Question? Something he wrote at 27 before he wote his more important works like The Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital. Are you a communist or is your quotation of Marx mere opportunism?
>>2336837I have no clue what you're talking about. Maybe you should talk to a therapist or something. Sounds like you have PTSD.
> if you guys actually read that Churchill essay you love to post you'd know he was talking about that from a Zionist pov.It's very funny on top of it considering I post here like everyday and probably for longer than yourself. You need to check your schizophrenic fantasies. The truth would blow your mind.
>>2336834>i won’t just bite the bullet, i’ll chew the fuck out of that bullet if you want me tothere is no acceptable “pro-jewish” or “neutral on judaism” view for marxists
>judaism will absolutely not survive communism, our advance will bring about the conditions for it’s abolishment and the reactionaries who decide to cling and fight to hold onto this tradition will be put to deathyeah but that goes for religion in general…
right? >>2336844indeed "seperate but equal"
everything in its place
>>2336855No you didn't.
>>2336858Why is it any of my business?
After more time I am beginning to see that a lot of the dooming isn't really reasonable.
It's almost entirely based on intense delusion, I think, the same kind of delusion that feeds Israeli genocide and enabled the war to be launched in the first place. I believe that Western commentators and analysts are very confined to this delusion, as well, due to the intense and tight information control over news related to Iran and the war. They are maximally subject to propaganda and maximally restrained by censorship. This leads them to a completely bewildered point of view, where they understand the war as only possibly occurring for no reason, with completely unhinged and unimaginable goals, where only the maximal outcome of total victory is even *possible.*
I think if you consider this for a moment, this is a totally unreasonable and impossible thing to believe. Actually, more outcomes are possible than a total, uncompromising victory achieved at no cost. It is a tremendous testament to Israeli information dominance and control that such a delusional point of view is considered the only rational one.
Much of the "Iran can do nothing" arguments are actually premised on a very different assertion, which is that Iran will do nothing, and will just accept defeat in the most brutal and unforgiving way possible because it has, for no reason at all, ruled out retaliation along any of its most potent vectors. I think there's no reason to believe this.
>>2336852I could understand someone saying it's impossible to be Jewish(the faith) and Communist because Judaism is Jewish-supremacist at its core and inherently relies on social castes(Jews/Goys).
But in the same way Christianity and Islam also cannot be Communist so…idk it seems pointless to bring up.
>>2336875> but 'anti-Jewish' in the context of /pol/tards refers to the ethnicity, whether those Jews be Judaists, atheists, communists, bronies, or something else.Right, I also adopt this distinction but when I use it here it brings out the type of people who accuse of you being the zogbot or trying to distract from the current genocide by using sensitivty training as a weapon etc. etc.
I've had these conversations 100 times already
>>2336879So the United States. We are both American
>But you think it is more important that we maintain a positive opinion on Judaism than anyone's lives or anything like that.I do not think that and I have already said that I am for the end of religion in general, including Judaism. I just don't like the metaphysical treatment of zionism as Judaism. Ted Cruz and Donald Trump aren't Jewish but they are Zionist. I don't say this to protect Judaism but to be historical materialist. I can understand why nuance is frustrating when a genocide is happening and we all feel powerless to fight it as our government steals our money to keep committing it because the zionist lobby has bribed and blackmailed them.
>>2336876>so every time i feel like saying something very basic as “judaism is reactionary” it must come with an equal statement for every other group tooAt the end of the day the only way to eliminate the stigma is to just ignore it. Being called an antisemite is a badge of pride when it's coming from Zionazis.
It's pretty disheartening when Leftists fall for the propaganda and excommunicate you for being critical of religion though.
>>2336876I wasn't talking about Judaism, THO.
You objected to 'anti-Jewish' when I used it in the context of /pol/tards. They hate all ethnic Jews, Judaists or not.
I don't think you're anti-Jewish in that sense - at least not if you're the Brazilian Sandinista - because that would mean you're hostile toward even communist, atheist Jews.
>>2336852it is impossible to be jewish and communist in my understanding of what jewish and communist both mean, the beliefs that come with judaism are diametrically opposed to marxism
>inb4 BUT THIS IS TRUR FOR ALL THE RELIG-yeah man, obviously
>>2336889>because that would mean you're hostile toward even communist, atheist Jews.obviously he isn't and already said as much
ANYWAY WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH IRAN RIGHT NOW
>>2336886>Lol they knock on people's doors though and do missionary work in other countries. They also basically larp a fake history where their prophet got special tablets from American Jews so it's essentially an offshoot of the Abrahamic religions anyway. What a weird comparison to make especially when the Mormons made up a strong contingent in the CIA and helped rape Latin America.Yeah but where are they in the media and politics? It's funny I knew you were going to immediately go to Mormon-conspiracy shit. Now apply that same logic to the tribe with the start of David.
It's always:
>Look this other insular cronyist group is doing the same thing!<Ok, but but how much by comparison? Who is doing it more? >>2336805Well this is the sign of a potential rift between Christian, Capitalist, American Nationalist, and Jewish Zionists, they all have their points of overlap and their points of departure. Christian zionists want to bring about the eschaton. Capitalist zionists want to plunder the middle east and use Israel as a tool for doing so. American Nationalist zionists see Israel as an extention of the American empire. Jewish zionists themselves are a mixture of ethnic supremacism, apocalyptic religious prophecy distinct from christian zionism, and modern secular nationalism .
The contradictions and diverging interests of the zionist coalition cannot hold together forever. eventually something has got to give.
>>2336910one hundred percent of jews follow judaism, just like one hundred percent of christians follow christianity
if you disagree you are one or more:
>retarded>adolf hitler>religious>delusional>coping>seething >>2336902>It's funny I knew you were going to immediately go to Mormon-conspiracy shit. Now apply that same logic to the tribe with the start of David.>>2336907>And still that's like one guy you can name off the top of your head. How many Jews?buddy why are you constantly on the offensive when I already said 1000 times in this conversation I'm not defending judaism and I'm for the end of religion in general (including judaism)? you keep circling back to this "why are you protecting them" logic but then when you're on the backfoot it's all about "I just want them out of my hair even if they're killing people halfway across the world"
Which is it? Are you just an American Nationalist or is there more to it? The goalpost of the conversation isn't anti-Judaism, it's
what do you want to do about it? you already disavowed genocide, so either embrace the historical materialist solution or keep banging your head on the wall of "get them out of my coutnry" nationalism just like the zionists do with palestinians.
>>2336915Jew is an ethnicity, like Italian.
A follower of Christianity is a Christian.
A follower of Judaism is a Judaist.
>>2336919>why do they do it?to create a national identity for the jew separate from whatever was the one before, that’s pretty obvious
do you disagree with me? why do people keep telling me “nazis and zionists believe non-jewish jews exist!!” and then call me antisemitic for saying non-jewish jews
don’t exist? can you really blame me for guessing jidf when the response i get is this brain-melting retardation full of internal contradictions?
>>2336924But we have already been over this. There are Christian, Capitalist, Secular-Nationalist, and Jewish zionism. So it's not a 1:1. Zionism is a secular political ideolgy not something that's the same as Judaism the religion or Jews the ethnicity. The conflation between these things has been politically controversial for a reason. For example Hitler regarded the Atheist Marx as Jewish simply because his parents were Jewish converts to protestantism. Is someone Jewish if their parents were Jewish but converted to a different religion? According to the nazis: Yes!
So these distinctions do matter, politically, and will continue to matter politically, and especially matter politically in your country the United States, where you could expel ever single Jew but still have a ton of Christian evangelical zionists.
>>2336924The typical /pol/ chud could be described as anti-Jewish, anti-Judaist, anti-Zionist.
The typical leftist could be described as anti-Judaist (anti-religion more generally) and anti-Zionist.
>>2336929>why do people keep telling me “nazis and zionists believe non-jewish jews exist!!” and then call me antisemitic for saying non-jewish jews don’t exist?you say karl marx is not a jew because non-jewish jews don't exist, but the nazi response to you will be "you're jewish"
you answer this charge "No I"m not!"
but that doesn't matter to them. they've already decided that you are
just like you decide I'm "JIDF" for pointing this out
>>2336936>but the nazi response is: you're jewish!!ok? what do you want me to do about it? what i said is correct, whether or not nazis or whoever else calls me names doesn't change that
>just like you decide im JIDFthat might have something to do with the fact that you lazily point towards nazis (like right now) or the holocaust or antisemen or whatever instead of actually having a conversation with me, which is what i'd expect someone paid in quantity of engagement to do
Israel attacks Iran where thousands of Jewish people call home
Lost in coverage of the escalating conflict between Iran and Israel is the Iranian Jewish community that has called the country home for centuries.
According to estimates, between 17,000 and 25,000 Iranian Jews are living mostly in larger cities such as Tehran, Isfahan, Shiraz, Hamedan and Tabriz.
Next to Israel, Iran has the largest number of people of the Jewish faith in the Middle East. Iran’s parliament, the Majlis, has one reserved seat for the Jewish community.
In Isfahan, one of the city’s most prominent synagogues is located next to a mosque called Al Aqsa, and in Tehran, there are at least 50 synagogues spread across the city.
The Jewish community also runs a hospital in Tehran that caters to all patients regardless of their religious affiliation.
Jewish ties to the country date back as far as 2,700 years ago, Younes Hamami Lalehzar, a senior rabbi at Abrishami Synagogue in Tehran, once told me in an interview.
It is believed that Jewish heroine Esther and her uncle, Mordechai, are buried in the western city of Hamedan. According to Jewish biblical text, Esther was married to the Persian king, Xerxes.
In more recent history, the country gave safe haven to Jews who fled the Spanish Inquisition. During German Nazi leader Adolf Hitler’s rampage of Europe, Polish Jews sought refuge in Iran.
But there have also been periods of unrest, such as the forced conversion of Jews to Islam during the Safavid and Qajar era, and the migration of thousands of Iranian Jews to the US and Israel following the 1979 Islamic revolution.
>>2336941if I were JIDF I would say something like "you're literally hitler! israel has a right to exist!"
Instead I say things like "Communism means the end of religion, including Judaism, however I'm not a fan of conflating zionism with judaism, and there is a distinction between people who are ethnically
designated as jews and people who are adherents of the Jewish religion"
>>2336950>Hebrew Gematria that says his name equals 424this website says 589
https://www.gematrix.org/?word=Donald+Trump but i have no idea how any of this works
Trump’s latest comments indicate ‘US is heading towards military action against Iran’
We know that Trump spoke to the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, late on Tuesday. There’s no readout of what they discussed or what was said, but we can imagine what was on the table there.
And, of course, this came after the US president had spent about one hour, 20 minutes in the Situation Room. He was meeting with his top cabinet officials. He was meeting with some top generals. He was meeting with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, really discussing the next step forward.
It does appear from all indications that at the moment, all diplomacy or talk of a deal is off. And it looks like Trump could be heading towards some kind of military action. Now, whether or not that is unilateral or whether or not that is with Israel, that remains to be seen.
But the fact of the matter is that the indications are that that is at least what is coming.
You’ve just got to look at those messages, those Truth Social posts where he talked about complete surrender, where he used the term “we” when he spoke of control over Iranian skies. This is fairly significant because it was Israel that was previously talking about having that presence over the Iranian skies. But now the fact that Trump is saying “we” shows that there is a coupling.
There’s also what Trump said to Khamenei, saying we know where you are but we are not going to kill you.
So the big question is what will any action look like.
>>2336979It depends on whether Iran sinks those aircraft carriers now or whether they wait for a formal declaration of war by the United States
after those aircraft carriers park in the middle east and start firing on Iran
<US-Israeli War on Iran: The Numbers Game - Iranian Ballistic Missiles vs US-Israeli Air Defenses - Jun 17, 2025
>The US is fighting a war with Iran already, through Israel in the same manner it fights Russia through Ukraine;
>US Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard has reported Iran has no nuclear weapons and is not working on them to which the US president and other US officials have declared will be ignored and pursuit of war will continue;
>The war will be determined by the number of missiles Iran is able to maintain and use throughout the fighting and the depletion of US-Israel air defense systems;
>Iran is home to the largest Jewish population in the Middle East outside Israel itself, laying to rest war propaganda claiming Iran wants to “exterminate” the Jewish people; References:
Reuters - Trump calls for Iran's 'unconditional surrender' as Israel-Iran air war rages on (Jun 17, 2025):
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/trump-urges-tehran-evacuation-iran-israel-conflict-enters-fifth-day-2025-06-17/CBS - Trump says he wants "real end" to Iran's nuclear program, not just an Iran-Israel ceasefire (Jun 17, 2025):
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-real-end-iran-nuclear-program/US Role in Israeli Military Power
BBC - Israel's smaller, sophisticated military opposes larger Iran (Jun 17, 2025):
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2lxkpekedoABC News - Trump tells ABC Israel strikes on Iran 'excellent' and warns 'more to come' (Jun 14, 2025):
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-tells-abc-israel-strikes-iran-excellent-warns/story?id=122807155#:~:text=A%20U.S,missiles%20targeting%20IsraelBreaking Defense - Israel orders more Iron Dome interceptors, using new tranche of US funding (Jan 2025):
https://breakingdefense.com/2025/01/israel-orders-more-iron-dome-interceptors-using-new-tranche-of-us-funding/Defense News - Israel’s Arrow 3 missile-defense sale to Germany gets US nod (Aug 17, 2023):
https://www.defensenews.com/global/mideast-africa/2023/08/17/israels-arrow-3-missile-defense-sale-to-germany-gets-us-nod/Jerusalem Post - US boosts Israel defense aid by $5.2 billion for laser tech, Iron Dome, David’s Sling (Sep. 2024):
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-821919CNN - One number could define the Iran-Israel conflict’s outcome (Jun 17, 2025):
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/17/middleeast/iran-israel-conflict-ballistic-missiles-analysis-intl-latamTWZ - Israeli Airstrikes Blunt Iranian Long-Range Ballistic Missile Threat (Updated) (Jun 17, 2025):
https://www.twz.com/news-features/israeli-airstrikes-blunt-iranian-long-range-ballistic-missile-launch-capabilitiesWaPo - Israel-Iran conflict may last only as long as their missiles hold out (Jun 18, 2025):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/06/17/israel-iran-missile-conflict/Dismantling US-Israeli Propaganda
Jerusalem Post - Iran’s Jewish leaders call Israel strikes ‘savage Zionist aggression,’ urge ‘daily missile salvos’ (Jun 16, 2025):
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-857895The Jewish Daily Forward - How Iran’s Jews Survive in Mullahs’ World (Aug. 2015):
https://forward.com/news/319269/irans-jews-win-secure-place-in-mullahs-world-with-strings-attached/US Policy Papers Engineering Wars of Aggression on Iran
Brookings Institution - Which Path to Persia? (2009):
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/06_iran_strategy.pdfRAND Corporation - Dangerous But Not Omnipotent (2009):
https://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG781.html >>2336963Why can you people not see a picture of a woman without passing comment on how hot or not she is? if you want to fuck her or not?
It's honestly one of the most sad and pathetic things i seen on this site.
>>2336997/pol/ you out yourself with the total inability to speak like a normal person. try harder.
What happened in Israel overnight?Al Jazeera is reporting from Jordan because it has been banned in Israel and the occupied West Bank.
Volleys of Iranian missiles were fired towards Israel, concentrating on the central area as well as the north.
We know from the Israeli Ministry of Health that 94 Israelis have been treated for injuries from those overnight strikes, and that there were several fires where these missiles hit, or where fragments from the interceptors hit.
We’re not very clear on the locations of direct impact, because there is almost a blackout of information as the Israeli military censors reporting on what is targeted and what kind of damage is sustained.
But several municipalities are now releasing information about damage to residential buildings, and the number of buildings condemned for demolition has risen.
In Bat Yam, a city that was hit on Monday, there are 30 buildings that cannot be repaired.
>>2337004nobody is saying any of this.
Who are you talking to?
The fuck is this? Thread feels like a special needs kindergarten today generally.
>>2337010yes anon, very good. you won against the windmills. well done.
>>2337014Western culture is so capeshitted at this point WW2 references are practically capeshit
Forget the hero's journey it's the Churchillvengers stopping Hitler from getting the Sudetenlandstones
Probably more common in UK/Europe though
>>2336988Probably. Keep in mind Israel and all Western media are engaged in a very intense propaganda and censorship campaign. This is necessary to say Iran is already defeated, Israel is invincible etc.
It warrants activation of ones critical facilities.
I guess we are not really capable of accepting that something that is not given much direct supporting evidence is possible, even if we know that evidence would be throughly censored. It makes you seem like an irrational coper. But much of the delusion seems to determined by the sense of morale. Israel is not that strong, and Iran is not that fragile.
>>2337029nice
>>2337030shartjaks, nobody likes it. it's audience-hostile art. the gg allen of drawings.
>>2337029haha yes sharron, it's Israel infiltration, yes, that's why your politicians are "tricked" into funding them for no reason
what no theory does to a mf fr
New gibs just arrived from America. Interceptor ammo?
Challenge Airlines is known to transport military equipment to Israel, and keep in mind that Israeli airspace is supposed to be closed for civvies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenge_Group#GazaIn the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful
Beloved comrades of /leftypol/ in sight of the Zionist Regime's war on Iran,
It is with a heavy heart that we witness the suffering of the Iranian people in this time of tribulation. Indeed, no Muslim should ever take joy in the bloodshed of his brother, no matter the borders, no matter the differences. Yet we must also speak with clarity, for the truth must be known even when it is bitter.
I say this not out of hatred, but with deep sorrow and concern: the path that the leadership of Iran has chosen is one that has estranged them from the unity of the Ummah. For decades, they have clung to innovations and sectarian distortions that separate them from the core of our faith: from the Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH) and the consensus of the righteous predecessors. Their elevation of men to ranks nearly divine, their veneration of graves and rituals with no basis in the Qur'an nor authentic Sunnah, have long been condemned by the scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jama‘ah.
Let it be known: we do not rejoice at their loss, nor celebrate their weakness. But we must ask: where is the help of the Ummah? Why has the hand of solidarity not been extended? The painful truth is this: Iran, as a state and ideology, has placed itself outside the circle of brotherhood. When one forsakes the path of tawheed and introduces division into the Ummah through sectarianism and historical grievances, one should not be surprised when that same Ummah, fractured and wounded, does not respond with one voice.
This is not punishment from the Muslims; this is the consequence of abandoning the Jama‘ah. The doors of tawbah remain open, as they always have. If the leaders of Iran were to renounce their innovations and return sincerely to the creed of Islam — not the Islam of dynasties or power, but the Islam of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), the Islam of the rightly guided caliphs, the Islam of the noble companions — then the hearts of the Ummah would beat again in unison. Then Palestine would be their cause. Then the banners of solidarity would be raised high, not just in Arab capitals but across the entire Muslim world.
But as long as they persist in elevating their sect above the unity of Islam, as long as they turn their back on the Sunnah in favor of historical animosity and clerical absolutism, then they will find themselves isolated. Not by conspiracy, not by betrayal, but by consequence.
O Allah, guide the people of Iran back to the straight path. Remove the veils of division from our hearts. Unite this fractured Ummah upon truth, not tribe, upon tawheed, not theology of empire, upon Your Book and the Sunnah of Your Messenger (PBUH).
Ameen.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/catherine-shakdam-israeli-spy-infiltrated-mintpress-news/282889/Reminder that in Iran if you claim you’re a convert and want to learn more about Islam and support Iran they’ll accept you with open arms
This is why it’s so easy for foreigners to spy on them
They’re too trusting of others
>>2337108You scoff at the words of wisdom and call it takfiri projection, but I ask you this: who has bent the knee to the Zionists more than the self-proclaimed “Axis of Resistance” that bleeds endlessly but never wins? You mock the Ummah, yet the Ummah remains the only global force that has ever truly terrified the Zionist entity.
Iran calls itself a vanguard of resistance, yet it wears the robes of empire, not revelation. It clings to a sectarian theology that divides the Muslims, curses the companions of the Prophet (PBUH), and installs a clergy to rule in Allah's name, all while claiming to fight imperialism. But how can you fight the empire when your own house was built in defiance of the deen? You want liberation without submission. Revolution without revelation. And so you cheer for any boot that stomps in the name of your enemies, even if it crushes the necks of your brothers. That is not resistance, that is idolatry.
>>2337112>who has bent the knee to the Zionists more than the self-proclaimed “Axis of Resistance”ISIS
Al-Qaeda
HTS
Muslim Brotherhood
Saudi Arabia
Qatar
UAE
Jordan
Turkey
>>2337116>ISISA cursed khawarij project that every serious Muslim rejected. No state, no victories, no unity, just fitna and foreign handlers.
>Al-QaedaWhatever you think of them, they put America on the run harder than Iran ever touched Tel Aviv. And they never begged the West to lift sanctions or sell oil, unlike some Axis “anti-imperialists.”
>HTS, Muslim Brotherhood, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, JordanYes, we know they’re traitors. You think we pray behind them? We call them out daily. But at least we don’t dress them up as "resistance" like you do with Iran.
>TurkeyYou mean the country that opened its borders to millions of Syrians while Iran propped him up?
Iran talks a big game about resistance. But when Gaza burns, they give speeches. When Damascus starves, they send militias. When Israel bombs them, they stay quiet unless they can hit a Kurdish truck. You want to defeat Zionism? Stop worshiping state power and start recognizing that only the united Ummah under tawheed will ever bring it down.
>>2337112damn
the whole ummah retardation on display, all the buzzwords
>idolatry>takfiri >muh revelation >deen you are a retard
go sign up for Al Nusra
>>2337126>>Turkey>You mean the country that opened its borders to millions of Syrians while Iran propped him up?hey look guys. we got ourselves a syria "revolution" enthusiast.
Turkey is the country that helped give Israel control of Syria's airspace. And when is Erdogan's stooge Jolani going to do something to help the Gazans? Oh right, never, he already sealed their fate with his "victory", and him and Erdogan are too busy bending over for that sweet zionist and american cock and saying more please.
>>2337102beloved comrades?
your brotherhood is only the brotherhood of ummah
you piss on others
you insist on your retarded concepts of ultra-idealism and you will shoot any true marxist who, as a good marxist, will call out your religious retardation
FUCK YOU
>>2337126Imagine a Palestinian Sunni who gives loaves of bread to Hamas for free - this man has done more for Palestinians than every other foreign Sunni combined. Fucking Euros have stuck their neck out for Palestinians more.
They are pathetic clowns only deserving of scorn and mockery, their tactics are strictly cowardly and against the weak and vulnerable. Hamas are a complete aberration of typical Sunni character, whose preferred method of combat is detonating themselves in a crowd of unarmed children.
What have they done during the genocide? Bombed civilians in Iran, Russia, and Europe. Toppled Assad. Talked mad shit on the internet. Ceded territory to Israel.
If you weren't so hopelessly inbred you'd be capable of enough self awareness to realize how much of a pathetic slug you are.
>>2337158im still towing the NothingEverHappens line
The dust will settle, and you will all apologise to me
This is a big nothing burger
10 Israelis dead
no nukes set off
life will continue
>>2337162dont project his cringe on the third world
that is specific Sunni cringe
bitch about the few injustice done to him but conveniently ignore his mountain of sins
>>2337162china still has it even though its approaching first world status.
It will never dissapear
>>2337134You’re right to criticize Turkey’s duplicity, Erdogan plays both sides and Jolani's compromises speak for themselves. But don’t confuse criticism with silence. I never called them righteous. I said they sheltered millions fleeing Assad’s slaughter, which Iran funded, armed, and justified under the flag of “resistance.”
Iran didn’t just betray Syria’s revolution, it murdered it. You want to talk about Gazans? Ask why Iran’s militias were shelling Palestinian camps in Damascus while waving the same flag you claim stands for liberation. You think that’s resistance?
>>2337135I understand that you don't believe in the Ummah, because you only believe in slogans, states, and dialectics. But when you look at the Muslim world and see only "retardation," all you’re proving is that your ideology is a Western import, not a liberation tool. Marxism without faith becomes nihilism. You rage at Muslims for not being Marxist, but you’d rather shoot the oppressed than pray beside them. That’s not revolutionary, that’s colonial arrogance with a red flag. You can’t build solidarity while spitting on the beliefs of billions. That’s why your “internationalism” never leaves the internet.
>>2337139YOU paint Hamas with the blood of others because YOU can’t accept that the most effective resistance in Palestine is religious, which makes you more upset than anything Israel does. A baker in Gaza feeding fighters does more than your bitter cynicism ever will, AND he knows who his enemies are. He doesn’t blame Sunnis for Assad’s war crimes, or conflate defense with terrorism. You say Hamas bombed civilians in Europe and toppled Assad, all lies. You call martyrdom cowardice, but shrug when Israel drops white phosphorus on schools. You call the mujahideen slugs, but it’s your worldview that’s deformed, blind to occupation, obsessed with sect, loyal only to failure, because you don’t care about liberation, you only care about control.
>>2337169> you only believe in slogans, states, and dialecticsno I believe only in the scientific method, which naturally leads me marxism
Science is not a wester, arabic, Chinese, African import. It stands above all.
>spitting on the belief of billions Casteism also is belief. So was slavery and racism. So what? I should respect them?
>>2337169>when the Indonesian adopts islam mashallah the universality of the deen
>when the African adopts the scientific method REEEEEE THAT IS WESTERN IMPORT, YOUR MIND IS STILL COLONISED
>>2337176You cloak ideology in the language of science, but confuse method with worldview. Marxism is not the scientific method, it is a framework, with assumptions, blind spots, and cultural baggage like any other. To act otherwise is dogma, not science. You would do well to reread Capital.
And no one’s asking you to “respect” injustice. But comparing faith in God to casteism or slavery? Dismissing wholesale the billions who believe doesn’t make you enlightened, it makes you irrelevant to the oppressed workers you claim to fight for. You don’t have to pray, but if your revolution has no room for the faithful, it was never for the masses.
>>2337181After the incredible victory in the Electronic Intifada by Palestine, Iran achieves total victory of TikTok aura cringe
Meanwhile, Israel decapitates the whole of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iranian top guys
>>2337184There will be marxisms for each specific country.
socialism with chinese characteristics. socialism with north korea characteristics (juche), socialism with etc etc
>>2337188No, it isn’t. Marxism is based on a materialist interpretation of history, but it is not itself the scientific method. The scientific method is a tool: observation, hypothesis, testing, falsifiability. Marxism is a theory. A powerful one, yes, but not infallible, not universal, and not above critique. Confusing your ideology with science is how you end up calling billions of people backward and thinking it’s “analysis.”
Read more than Marx. Read Gramsci, Zizek, Stalin, Mao, Deng, and literally everyone else that understands that praxis is a process, a critique, and not a pure science.
>>2337200Marxism IS the scientific method applied to human history
It IS pure science
Pure science does not necessarily mean pure determinism. As a stochastic system of so many variables, it cannot be completely knowingly deterministic. But it IS pure science, nonetheless.
It seems you have read many authors. It is now time you start thinking about what you read instead of just reading about them.
You disappoint me, Hakim. I expected much more from a doctor.
>>2337211your caliphate will not be a teddy bear empire bro
the world aint dumb you know, we know very well what Sunni Rule is like
>revive our own paradigmat the expense every of our subjects who do not share our views 100%
>>2337215islam is not just a fun little aesthetic you can add marxism to
Islam is fundamentally opposed to Marxism, down to the atomic level
>>2337211>You assume the caliphate is just “another empire,” as if unity under tawheed is morally equivalent to NATO occupation or Zionist settler colonialismWhen I say imperialism I am talking about political economy, what the stated values of the empire are isn't relevant. This is no less liberal than saying that capitalism is bad because of immoral capitalists.
>the answer to that isn’t to assimilate into your cynicism, it’s to revive our own paradigm, on our terms, without begging the West for permissionAnd yet here you are lol. On a Western site begging for approval, reading authors from a Western intellectual tradition, and making not just political but intellectual and moral dewesternization the cornerstone of your ideology and self-image.
>>2337229We've already posted about this guy and everyone seems to like him as much as you can like JCOS
He should pull a coup
>>2337211>Your faith in dialectical materialism is no less millenarianThis is also not true, you're assuming I'm an immoral science anti-revisionist autist who treats Capital like the Quran when I'm not. Dialectical materialism attempts to approach history quantitatively. Attempts. Theory can and should be revised as we accumulate more data and in practice it always has been, even by Marx and Engels themselves. Let alone all the various flavors of anti-revisionism that came later which were all very different from Marx and each other. Nor do I think communism is inevitable or that Marx thought it was, we could perfectly well go extinct first.
There is a meaningful distinction between that and not being able to say raping a 9 year old is wrong because it's in Bukhari and the fact that you can't put sublation under a microscope doesn't change the fact.
>>2337235Joint Chiefs of Staff too
Obliterated by the colonelpill
>>2337234Literally white-feather-tier
TZD
TZD
TZD
>>2337169>You’re right to criticize Turkey’s duplicity, Erdogan plays both sides and Jolani's compromises speak for themselves. But don’t confuse criticism with silence. I never called them righteous. I said they sheltered millions fleeing Assad’s slaughter, which Iran funded, armed, and justified under the flag of “resistance.”Turkey was central in causing Syrian slaughter to begin with, by collaborating with the US empire, Israel, Saudi and other regional actors to flood Syria with terrorists in an imperial project of regime change. Syria's "revolution" was a fraud and we see its actual results: "compromise with the US and Israel", as well as Takfiri genocide and Sunni islamist supremacism/zionism. That was always the point. Assad knew it. Iran knew it. They knew what was coming if they didn't fight. The "revolution" would attack all of Syria's minorities and turn Syria (whatever was left of it after all the regional vultures took their pieces) into an agent of Israel and US empire, just like Turkey, Saudi and the "revolution's" other sponsors. And so it has. You bought into a fraud, an evil project, and the result of that project is plain for all to see: empowering Israel and condemning Gaza and anyone who tried to stand up for it.
>>2337211>You call it a fantasy, but it’s your own worldview that depends on defeat being permanent and history being over. People search around for ideologies that suit them given their conditions. It's by no means apparent to me that this automatically leads to communism. There seems to be reasons why people in a large region of the world found Islamic oriented ideologies to be an attractive organizing principle. I think it's a problem though when an ideology turns into a dogma and treated like it has no flaws and doesn't need to adapt to changing conditions. This isn't a problem exclusive to Islam. You can only blame external factors like Israel and Western imperialism for your problems up to a certain point. It's a problem when it becomes an alibi for avoiding reality, or not fixing problems, because at some point the enemies will come for you, and you better be prepared.
>>2337229>Leftypol liberals rather have Kamala in charge of the conflict than this guy cause maybe he is anti-semitic and that's a no no Well now he's fired so it doesn't matter anyways. I figure it's a problem BTW if anti-war/anti-imperialism is really just an "anti-Democratic Party" thing (although it should include that) out of disillusionment with Obama doing the drones. Not that it was doing well but who cares about Kamala now? So many public figures in the anti-war "movement" became desperate for Republican approval while scolding their most likely supporters over identity politics that they're caught totally stupified at the ongoing disaster. Now the Laura Loomers are in control and Trump is like "kooky Tucker Carlson doesn't even have a network T.V. show!"
>>2337232But then you know well that all frameworks, even flexible ones, carry assumptions. Dialectical materialism attempts objectivity, but it still presumes that all human behavior can be reduced to material conditions. That’s not scientific neutrality, it’s a metaphysical claim, and cannot be tested in a lab any more than revelation can.
And that’s the POINT, we’re both operating from paradigms. You have yours, I have mine. You appeal to historical data and revision; I appeal to divine guidance and communal memory. Both shape values. Neither escapes interpretation.
As for your attempt at shock, it’s not clever, and it’s not honest. You know Islamic jurisprudence is not frozen text, and you know Muslims debate and contextualize like any tradition. Attempting to weaponize that to score rhetorical points is beneath someone claiming to stand for liberation. We disagree, but you don’t defeat religion by slandering it. You only prove that you still fear its power to move people where theory alone cannot.
>>2337224You reduce imperialism to capital flows and surplus extraction, then act surprised when people reject your framework. Material domination matters, but moral legitimacy does too. If you cannot distinguish between Zionist settler colonialism and a unified Ummah, that is not clarity, it is collapse into relativism that excuses power so long as it is efficient.
As for being here, I am not looking for your permission. I am confronting you where you speak because ideas do not belong to borders. You call it hypocrisy when Muslims use English or reference your thinkers. I see it as strength when we engage your tradition and still walk away unconvinced.
Decolonization is not retreat from the West. It is REFUSING TO KNEEL to it.
>>2337277>But then you know well that all frameworks, even flexible ones, carry assumptions. Dialectical materialism attempts objectivity, but it still presumes that all human behavior can be reduced to material conditions. That’s not scientific neutrality, it’s a metaphysical claim, and cannot be tested in a lab any more than revelation can. This is defining metaphysics so broadly that assertions of any kind whatsoever qualify. It's a cheap apologetic trick that ignores that there's a fundamental difference in methodology. And if all of these paradigms are equally subjective and self-referential regardless of methodology then how do you even judge them against each other? What's the point of even proselytizing? It makes the choice of paradigm completely arbitrary and it turns you into the nihilist you were accusing leftists of being. Not to mention that all of this postmodernism ummahfags love to use to deconstruct Western modernity is itself Western and modern.
>Islamic jurisprudence is not frozen text, and you know Muslims debate and contextualize like any traditionAs a historical materialist I know that. If I was a Muslim looking at the doctrine I wouldn't, parts of Islamic jurisprudence are theoretically frozen and parts aren't. Which do you personally classify its support for pedophilia as? I wonder if you might have some internalized colonialism since you find it such a shocking, slanderous question.
>>2337296>'our law' that is medieval fascism
wha the fuck is a retard like you doing on /leftypol/ anyway
Go do Dawah on the streets of London
>>2337297Method matters, but method alone does not sanctify a worldview. Paradigms differ in assumptions, scope, and aims. That does not make them all equally valid, but it does mean no paradigm sits outside interpretation. Science tests what is measurable. Revelation orders what is meaningful. Both speak to truth, but in different registers. I proselytize because truth is not arbitrary. I reject nihilism because Islam gives purpose beyond material cycles. You call that postmodern, but Muslims questioned empire and modernity long before Foucault was born. As for your last question, it is not shocking, just tired. You know full well that scholars debate legal norms across time, place, and method. If you want to talk jurisprudence, speak as a jurist, not as someone lobbing insults and calling it critique.
>>2337301>reject determinism yet claim purityyou're just writing words with no relation to my post
>expected obedience instead of thoughtI see no thoughts from your islamo-ramblings, only pretentious word salad
>falsifiable and testable The Islamo-Kuhno-Poppero retard, impressive!
>>2337282>then act surprised when people reject your frameworkHave I done that once in this entire thread?
>ideas do not belong to bordersYou're speaking a Western language on a Western website and using them to convey Western postmodernist arguments in service of a form of Islam which itself owes a lot to capitalist modernity, which began in the West. Unless you build a time machine it is impossible to return to some wholly culturally "authentic" form of Islam free from Western influence and which isn't in a process of being reconfigured by capitalism. All that is solid melts into air, you can't go back.
And you keep mentioning how shocked communists are at Islam's success, how scared we and all non-Sunnis are at the idea of the caliphate. It's the fantasy of the little man who finally gets his day, that is begging for Western approval even if you can't see that it is.
>>2337306Marxism rejects every tradition,. including that of the West
You're talking as if Marx sucked the Catholic Church's dick you moron
Islam is a vehicle of sadism and stupidity
>>2337309I speak English and engage here because ideas need to be challenged everywhere, not because I seek approval from the West. Islam, like all living traditions, naturally evolves over time. While it has been influenced by history, including capitalism, it is not defined by it.
The caliphate is not a fantasy dreamed up by insignificant people. It represents a vision of justice and unity that stands against both Western imperialism and local tyranny. You claim it is begging for approval, but in reality, it rejects the West’s claim to exclusive legitimacy.
>All that is solid melts into airTrye, but it means we must build something new rather than surrender to defeat or erase our identity.
>>2337304>Revelation orders what is meaningfulUnless there is something standing above these subjective, self-referential paradigms then what's your criteria for meaning in the first place?
>You know full well that scholars debate legal norms across time, place, and methodThere really isn't much debate on that one and almost all of the people who are against it are not jurists but lay reformists. A lot of them lay reformists who wouldn't even call themselves Sunnis or Shias. I don't think that matters because I don't think the theory about how Islamic jurisprudence works is actually what determines how it works, I think its shaped by material conditions like any other cultural tradition. The theory sanctifying and governing Islamic jurisprudence developed over time and involved a ton of debate and agreement just like the actual jurisprudence itself did. But you do think it matters, feel free to list the Sunni jurists who are against pedophilia but it's going to be a short list.
>>2336737when someone from Philly tells you that zionistland it's their 3000 y.o. promised land, moves in to the colonial settler project because they were promised with healthcare, housing, in exchange of killing some "inferior" "subhuman" brown people, I guarantee you he won't last one day of a bomb campaign.
very completely different set up of national ideologies.
>>2337336countries which are 95+ % muslim, your answer is unambiguous
But there are countries where many muslims live but they are not a majority, like India or Western European states or Nigeria
How will that authority interact with the muslims in these countries? Does the Caliphate override their local laws?
>>2337345nothing
but it was good of the aura posting
TikTok truly ruined everything
>>2337343it's Zionism dude, except for Sunnis instead of Jews. Right-thinkers are part of it, the wrongthinkers will be hunted down untl purity is achieved. And once purity is achieved they will be able to defeat Israel, but until then they must collaborate and help empower Israel to defeat the Muslim wrongthinkers.
But one day it will all be different. trust me bro…
>>2337280burger love to scam burgers.
this is the freedom phone 2.0.
>>2337355https://freedomphone.com/ a re-branded Chinese phone that only because says "freedom" in the OS they will charge you twice as much.
older than the T1, same scam spirit.
>>2337325>You claim it is begging for approvalI claimed you were doing that, not the caliphate. The caliphate doesn't exist except as an idea in people's heads and it's not going to exist in any sense more real than that. To what extent it existed at all after the Abbasid decline is very debatable. For most of Islamic history there have been puppet caliphs or no caliphs or a bunch of different competing self-proclaimed caliphs none of which you recognize as legitimate today. Which isn't even getting into early Islamic history where unless you're a dogmatist retard it's impossible to come to any other conclusion besides that nobody knew what the fuck they were doing and these political theologies like the caliphate and imamate emerged gradually as often very self-interested intellectuals came to terms with the results of the civil wars.
You have a completely romanticized image of Islamic history cooked up by ideologues specifically to juice you up into dying for your bourgeoisie and sometimes the CIA. The idea that there was some clear line of succession between Rashidun, Ummayad, Abbasid, and Ottoman empires and that they all functioned and understood themselves in basically the same way is a massive oversimplification. And ummahfags can't even agree on that lol, half of you guys think the Ottomans were bad too.
>>2337343Wherever Muslims live, the Caliphate’s authority is supreme because it represents the divine law that guides their faith and life. In countries where Muslims are a majority, this authority naturally shapes the political order. In places where Muslims are a minority, the Caliphate still claims spiritual and legal jurisdiction over them, meaning its laws take precedence over local laws for Muslims.
This is not a matter of choice or negotiation. True unity under the Caliphate requires Muslims to follow divine guidance above all earthly laws, even if it conflicts with the laws of non-Muslim states. The Caliphate exists to uphold justice and faith, not to submit to secular or foreign legal systems.
>>2337360their love for targeting hospitals is astonishing.
Iran haven't touched health centers so far.
>>2337369 (me)
also, the weird non-sequitur between Marx's words on "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" and "self interest" and "israel is justifiably allowed to spy on Americans" lmao.
anti-communists are weird people. very weird people.
>>2336947That shut him up. Notice how he just stops responding when he's out of snark instead of even once in his jaded ass existence saying something even relatively diplomatic like this
>>2336881 which he of course called "crybullying" in
>>2336908 Unique IPs: 104