/ukr/ - Russia-Ukraine War General #242
<Eternal Fizzling SpecialPrevious:
>>2315845 >>2305808—————————————————–
Evidence of the influence and origin of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine
https://archive.ph/44B9Qhttps://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323637https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323658https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323663https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323688https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323729https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323733https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323731https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323735https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323740—————————————————–
ALWAYS APPROACH SOURCES CRITICALLYLive maps and updates
DeepStateMap:
https://deepstatemap.liveEvents in Ukraine:
https://eventsinukraine.substack.com/SouthFront:
https://southfront.press/category/all-articles/world/europe/ukraine/Watch Together
📺 News/events:
https://tv.leftypol.org/r/HappeningsviaKlash📺 Hangout/chill:
https://tv.leftypol.org/r/bloodcastWatch By Yourself
>Video Essays / Historical Background📺 • Ukraine: The Avoidable War - Boy Boy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8📺 • Ukraine's Nazi Problem - The Marxist Project
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yZvWAwU5W4📺 • America, Russia, and Ukraine's Far Right - Gravel Institute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0pyVJG7_6Q📺 • The Nature of Putin's Russia and Its Causes (3-Part Series) - 1Dime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8d6Vzi7zYghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zODWTfMwFGwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zuygh9Mzuo
<Current Happenings 📺 • The Grayzone:
https://www.youtube.com/@thegrayzone7996📺 • DDGeopolitics:
https://www.youtube.com/@DDGeopolitics📺 • Defense Politics Asia:
https://www.youtube.com/@DefensePoliticsAsia📺 • The Duran:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdeMVChrumySxV9N1w0Au-w📺 • The News Atlas:
https://www.youtube.com/c/thenewatlas📺 • Military Summary:
https://www.youtube.com/@militarysummary—————————————————–
Social media
>Twitterhttps://twitter.com/GeromanAThttps://twitter.com/plnewstodayhttps://twitter.com/RALee85https://twitter.com/MarQs__https://twitter.com/KofmanMichaelhttps://twitter.com/IntelCrabhttps://twitter.com/michaelh992https://twitter.com/Suriyakmaps
<Telegramhttps://t.me/milinfolivehttps://t.me/hueviykharkovhttps://t.me/conflictzonehttps://t.me/vorpostehttps://t.me/intelslavahttps://t.me/grey_zonehttps://t.me/AussieCossackhttps://t.me/asbmilhttps://t.me/Slavyangrad🇷🇺🇺🇦🇰🇵🇬🇧
Thread guidelines:
• Please remember to add a spoiler to NSFW and extreme content such as graphic violence and gore.
• Try your best to not derail discussion too much from the main events and relevant places where the war is taken place, as well as other happenings, groups and public figures related to it.
• Meta discussion of the historical, philosophical and ideological background of the war is fine as long as its done in good faith and comradely.
• In the event the meta discussion overstays its welcome, participating users will be referred to take the conversation to the INTERNATIONALISM general thread.
• Quality shitposting and original content is encouraged! Spamming glowie memes is low effort.
• this is /isg/ for people who treat geopolitics like shitty map games.
>>2349798Cucktin isn't a young man anymore
He can drop dead at any moment
He must act,
NOW >>2349802Putin is 72
Trump is 79
>>2349831I did not say trump will not die
whether orange retard lives or not doesn't matter
Putin must do what he gotta do
Enough cuckxcuses
>>2349904I (semiwestoid living in west) am pro war as fuck. I just wanna see the the US, UK, EU, Canada and Australia burn to the ground getting what they deserve.
I would like to see Japan spared because it is under occupation.
>>2350940Yeah, that actually was a while ago, lol. Like an year or so ago? I considered switching back to ushanka but it doesn't really matter.
I do agree that this thread is pretty much dead, every theoretical question has been argued to death back in 2022-2023, these days we get more concern trolling than constructive posts and there are only 2-3 posters who occasionally post relevant content including me
Btw I miss old 8ch /leftypol/, at least back then the anti-anti-imperialist opposition believed in something, namely anarchism or bookchinism, nowadays we have this very strange kind of poster that operates in bastardizing everything down to downright absurd abstractions like "anti-imperialism is hypernationalism and basic marxism is le ideology", who believes in nothing but contrarianism and cannot be debated
>>2350997No argument from me, I’m kinda visiting the thread less and less because each time it usually is some kind of concern trolling and I’ve said my piece on
>has cucktin considered, like, winning? It’s so easyEnough times and then discovered that was basically one anon 90% of the time and it’s the felix fan, so it’s not even an old discussion for new anons, which yeah, I should have known.
For me, the thread peaked during the tank debates, super-ultra-mega upgraded Slovenian T-55 vs ancient and desperate T-62Ms. Where Armata? /k/ briefly becoming very racist towards Ukrainians when the first pictures of an abandoned Leopard 2 appeared, etc, etc.
>>2351588<"the murders of civilians is the most atrocious and barbarous picture of the imperialistic wars from whenever it comes from wherever they take place, either now in Ukraine due to the Russian invasion or in the past in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria and elsewhere with the responsibility of USA and NATO.">KKE officially treats the invasion of Ukraine and the invasion of Iraq as equally imperialisticAs an idea, that's the most damaging of all. I can't comprehend the misunderstanding of imperialism required to treat as equal
>Invading a country in another continent, based on a lie, for crude oil and killing an extreme amount of civilians in the first two weeks of "shock and awe" intended to terrify people from resistingand
>Invading a neighbour that has experienced a foreign coup, brought a nascent Neo-Nazi movement into a position of leadership that agitates for genocide of people who speak your language and demands the privilege of further expanding an imperialist military alliance to your bordersThe fact is that the former was based on a lie about self-defence and the latter is genuinely about self-defence, even if you find invasion-as-self-defence disagreeable.
The reason why their position demonstrates that there are no western anti-campists, is that they're doing the US/NATO, to my mind, two favours.
Firstly, they're doing the Call of Duty thing by which something the US did (in this case the invasion of Iraq for its resources/market) is now ackshually something the Russians have done (equally invading Ukraine for its resources/market) while conveniently ignoring that while US self-defence against Iraqi WMDs was a complete and utter lie, that Ukraine has a problem with Neo-Nazis and NATO is utilising them for hostile expansion towards Russia's borders and bringing more "First Strike" materiel to more of the border of Russia, isn't a lie, it's demonstrably true. There is absolutely no reason why the KKE who fronts itself as wringing a fist against NATO would neglect to stress that difference.
Secondly, although it's full of critique of Zelensky, it doesn't appear to have the opinion that the Zelensky government is illegitimate, again presumably because acknowledging the coup in 2014 and the fact that the US had serious doubts about the validity of Ukrainian election outcomes prior, but is absolutely confident that no shenanigans have occured in elections since the coup, where each consecutive government was more aggressively anti-Russian than the last, would hurt their prior point that there's no dimension of self-defence to this conflict with Russia and it's just Colin Powell but in the Duma presenting a copy of Mein Kampf sworn to have been discovered in Ukraine.
By all means, if one wants to make the argument that Russia shouldn't have invaded or otherwise done anything violent in self-defence against NATO expansionism and its use of Neo-Nazism to stoke the kind of ethnic hatred that apparently requires, then fine. I think that is an extremely unreasonable expectation to have, but I get that some people are moralists and like to imagine shouldas and oughtas rather than just analysing what actually happened and is happening, but we can at least agree that NATO expansionism is something that warrants self-defence by its targets.
But that doesn't seem to be something the KKE agrees with, thus, they're not anti-campists.
>>2351447Nothing is changing.
Putin is still pursuing his four-oblast Istanbul agreement and calling it quits. Everything else is merely pressure in that direction.
He'll sign the agreement with either Zelensky or Zelensky's Banderite successor.
A book is no fun when you know the spoilers.
>>2352195He's doing everything they want, no?
No concessions to Russia, concentrating the activity in Russian villages so that Lvov and other far-right areas don't suffer, mobilizing/kidnapping from only Russian areas.
>>2351588*wheeze*
hahaha
hehehe
hohoho
>>2352250I'm the one who made the image. I was in a conversation with your BFF. It's my opinion that it completely destroyed his psyche.
It's like the time I destroyed your psyche with the demonstration that Cucktin is self-evidently a cuck because his name contains 'cuck' in it.
>>2352254oh its you lol
you take this meme shit way to seriously
[reposting because typos are beneath me]
>>2352268I take all my battles seriously, no matter the format. What you kids need to realize is that a person who aims for perfection in the little things has a better chance of achieving perfection in the big things.
Bonus track
Nearly forgot why I was actually here. I save things with (you) on them as well. But they are for easy looking up of discussion that I have been over and I assume will repeat themselves (imperialism yada-yada, the cucktinists I don't actually care about, at least they are living in the real world with us). I maintain it is not vanity but a defense mechanism against the "leftcom" invading "force" that loves repetition so much they literally post the same thing every day with barely any variation.
I'm not saying that's an attack to make the place inhospitable, only that if I were tasked with that, that is what it would look like. Point is it doesn't matter whether they do it consciously, paid or unpaid.
>>2350997Yes, I miss when my opp actually believed in things or (at least) inhabited the same reality. At this point there's no basis for discussion, 'tis very true.
Insofar as anything can be gleaned from this place about the wider world, it's in my most humble estimation yet another variation of "I'm totally an enemy of the present state of things, however…" which will be what a large part of the western left (so-called) will ultimately end up as (or already has), with war propaganda coming to the forefront it is somewhat important to be "neutered" (sounds essentially the same as "alternatives/communism work in theory, however in reality [most imperialist, chauvinist shit you ever heard]), lest you actually end up as "enemy of the state" and that's not what they signed up for.
>>2352279Ah, 'tis true.
Somewhere in the Buddhist canon it says "
The way someone does one thing is the way they do everything"
>>2352282Why would I hide the (You)?
It was obvious when I first posted the image mid-conversation that I was the one who made the image, and I'm not one of you cuck kids who need to shirk responsibility. I stand by my creations.
>>2352286>Somewhere in the Buddhist canon it says "The way someone does one thing is the way they do everything"Exactly right. For my victory over IntBrig, I had the five most recent /ukr/ threads open in separate tabs, meticulously documenting his posts. I waited patiently for my opening and took it.
Most kids around here have only one or two tabs open.
<Russia believes Belgrade's statements about suspending arms exports, but "we will be checking/verifying ," Naryshkin told TASSHere you go, my handsome flaggies, why is Russia melting down only now about Serbian arms to Ukraine?
Did it actually believe the denials back in 2023? Couldn't be me…
https://www.reuters.com/world/leaked-us-intel-document-claims-serbia-agreed-arm-ukraine-2023-04-12/ >>2352129Its difficult for me to see exactly what you are trying to respond to with your ramble of a reply.
My point was that the KKE materially acts against its own imperialist camp more than the sum of all posts online could possibly do. KKE actively blocks shipments of arms to Ukraine, often with serious legal consequences.
Example:
https://www.idcommunism.com/2025/06/greece-members-of-kke-are-prosecuted-for-their-antiwar-activities.html
>KKE officially treats the invasion of Ukraine and the invasion of Iraq as equally imperialisticI don't what rhetorical point trying to imply here. Say two countries are imperialist is simply saying that they share ths characteristic in common. It doesn't make them identical in other respects (that's absurd and a genetic fallacy).
The KKE merely claims that Russia is an imperialist power, and that aims in Ukraine are not limited to geopolitical defense (no nato on the borders) nor removal of Ukrainian Nazis. It also seeks for its own capitalist class to secure cheaper labour, a captive market for sales, commodity transit routes, fertile agricultural land, mineral deposits & whatever Soviet industrial legacy remains. On this basis there is no need for any serious communist organization to support the Russian government either materially or rhetorically.
>it doesn't appear to have the opinion that the Zelensky government is illegitimateI have no idea where you got the idea that it considers the Ukrainian government as legitimate (presumably directly out of your ass).
It refused to meet with him when he entered Greek parliament:
https://www.idcommunism.com/2022/04/no-to-zelensky-why-kke-will-not-attend-zelensky-address-to-greek-parliament.html—
At the end of the day, you are simply wrong. The KKE, albeit small, represents an actual force that is against both camps, #and not just rhetorically, but in deeds as well.
>>2352365>I don’t understand your post, but have you considered that KKE has performed some adventurism?Okay, brilliant.
>>2352388In so far as they present the invasion as imperialism against the Ukrainian people under Zelensky, rather than a conflict between Russia and a NATO puppet government
>>2352485Ah.. thanks?
The secret is remembering this is still essentially a
4chan 8chan off shoot and not the room above a pub in East Victorian London full of fugitive communist dissidents from all four corners drafting manifestos and getting into drunken manly fist fights over the details.
It's just not that cool nor as important.
>>2352363Best part of the article is
>Serbia recognizes Ukraine in its entirety, including areas occupied by Russia since 2014, while Kyiv refuses to recognise independence of Kosovo, Serbia’s predominantly Albanian former province.Cuckposting has ascended to being a legit journalistic practice, kudos.
Other than that the article says very little other than unverified “leaked” Pentagon and Serbian documents suggest that Russia should break neutrality with Serbia right away.
>>2352463
>Have you considered that actually materially affecting the war effort is merely adventurism, and posting incomprehensible masturbatory rhetoric is real praxis.>Also subtly shifts the conversation away from saying the KKE isn't anti-campist.You are weak and pathetic shill for a government of literal traitors to the USSR.
Άιντε και πουλά το μουνί της μάνας σου στους προδότες να ευχαριστήθεις.
>>2352485No thanks. Looks like a standard degenerate to me.
I am only here to put put the KKE line. Greek communists know we are unlikable hardliners; It comes from decades of operating in openly repressive conditions after a civil war.
>>2352619The only benefit of this war is its destructive effects, sharpening antagonisms, making people lose their families for the dysfunctional relative individual profit seeking of various capitalist concerns on all sides.
Harsh rape will help at least some people realize not only that the rapists must be put to death, but the conditions, forces & systems which allow and encourage rape must be put yo death as well.
>>2352365I still think the KKE has the best ideological credentials for a modern CP and its behavior makes sense as a form of political maneuvering that preserves its independence. Arguing Russia is imperialist is backfilling, but it necessarily opposed the SMO after years of opposing Maidan in order to remain independent while arguing its own, bigger solution disowning the entire order of states
The thread just argued it's nonsense to believe globalization broke down via inter imperialist rivalry. The advanced states and their collective exploitation isn't breaking down by core periphery for this reason. It's the erosion of uneven development fueling a crisis of liberalism that drives the West to war to redivide the world. It is now the one building an iron curtain
>>2352633I think the problem is that everyone's still trying to apply the conditions imperialism arose in to the conditions of today. We're no longer experiencing conflicts spark as various imperial powers expand into each other and step on each other's toes, we're instead seeing a conglomerate of united imperial powers reaching the zenith of its expansion and its influence beginning to recede.
Naturally as imperial influence recedes, things like trade and diplomacy between nations will thrive in the vacuum left behind and I believe NATO will try what it can to ensure there's scorched earth to ensure their loss of imperial influence is not replaced by, like, normal inter-state relations that have existed for as long as states has.
It would therefore be a mistake to see something like Ukraine as being tantamount to the British Empire and the French Empire having a fight in Europe because they'd both really like to have Djibouti or some such situation, but more like the US tried and failed to assimilate Ukraine with the expectation of that involving voluntarily burning its bridges with Russia, then an attempt to assimilate Ukraine by having it involuntarily burning its bridges with Russia and now it just seeks to ensure that if the US can't have Ukraine as a vassal, then Russia can't have it as a regional partner either.
Grim tinhat predictions are therefore, Africa is going to get really fucking wild as the West comes to realise that
>A. it's not going to get far in it's demands towards a continent it previously enslaved based neither the economic "policies" it offers, nor the kind of liberal democratic values it really cares about now but didn't in the 1700s>B. yuck, that probably means China, Russia and god knows who else will benefit from Africa's resources instead by virtue of being able to at least trade with its nations>C. it would be therefore preferable that no one benefits from African resources, and that should be achieved by any means necessary, up to and including scorched earth >>2352704Article 5 is literally a nothing burger
It says something like:
“If a member state is attacked, the other members must support the attacked country*
*support can be defined any way the supporting country desires”
>>2352820*Vodka
I'm too used to talking about MMA
>>2352784They could have used that screen for their drones
SMH hoholggas
>>2354572Corpses exchange rate status?
At the very best situation for Ukraine, when Ukraine was attacking and gaining ground - and collecting enemy corpses, - at best the exchange rate was equal
>>2356453Puerto Ricans are complicit with Fascist Crackers of America
You will be hit hard too, Pablo
>>2356745mostly because they hate to be wrong on the imperialist issue.
aslo, because lpol is being publicized on X, a lot of radlibs come in to visit.
https://aurelien2022.substack.com/p/digging-deeper
>What I have discussed so far could be described as Permanently Operating Factors of politics, which apply in most situations. Here, though, I think there are other, more speculative, but also more dangerous factors operating. Let’s begin by postulating a final state for the current conflict in Ukraine, one which western politicians would hate, but which at least they would understand, since the elements of it are well known and have been widely discussed. Let’s assume that the territories of Ukraine claimed by Russia, as well as Odessa, have been occupied, and that in addition the Russians have established a security zone anything from 50 to 100 kilometres forward, including the whole border area. Let’s assume further that there has been a change of government in Kiev, that a Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation has perhaps been signed between the two countries, that the Constitution of Ukraine has been modified to remove references to NATO membership, and that the country has pledged eternal neutrality. It has demobilised most of its armed forces, and Russian “liaison officers” are now deployed throughout the country. All foreign forces have left, and a law has been passed preventing foreign forces from being deployed in the country ever again. Oh, and the Russians, who are extremely pissed at the western support for Ukraine, have begun a policy of forceful displays, including Corps-level exercises in Belarus on the borders of Latvia and Lithuania, probing flights up to the national airspace of NATO nations, and maritime exercises in the North Sea. They have also tabled a draft treaty text similar to that of December 2021, and made it clear that they hope for signature—with not much room for debate—within six months.
>Now this, I stress, is a reasonable, middle-of-the range politico-military outcome of the current fighting. It could be better, but it could be significantly worse. Nonetheless, it would represent the most catastrophic defeat the wider West has ever suffered, and a political and military humiliation as complete as the surrender of Germany in 1918, except on a massively larger scale. Think of it, if you like as Suez, Algeria, Vietnam and Afghanistan, all happening at the same time, with the volume turned up to eleven. And of course it’s not Over There, it’s just down the road. Any political system would struggle to survive such a crisis, and the current western system, full of mediocre greasy-pole climbers and empty of any real ideology, would find it harder than most. It’s not just the mechanics of it: yes, governments will fall, individual political careers will be over, and new political forces will arise or be strengthened. But every foundation of western security policy, and much of its economic policy as well, will start to crumble under the feet of the hapless western governments. A political void will open up, the like of which hasn’t been seen in politics for a very long time, if ever.
>The West will experience a brutal transformation away from its recent experience of giving orders, making demands and acting without needing to take account of the consequences. Suddenly, it will be receiving demands rather than making them, and having to take very seriously the reaction of other states to its actions. Playtime’s over, boys and girls: it’s time to grow up. And this, I think, is the basis of the apparently irrational obsession with continuing a war that cannot be won. The alternative is to recognise and accept a situation which will be much worse, which is almost literally unthinkable. In the short term, of course, it is possible to deny that anything like the above will actually happen, and the western political class, the media and much allegedly informed opinion will no doubt continue to do so for as long as they possibly can. But then it is surely enough to ask precisely how the type of events sketched out above can be falsified. Is it really feasible to suppose that the Russian advance can be stopped? Is it likely that western behaviour since 2022 will make Russia more kindly disposed? Is it likely that public and parliamentary opinion in Russia will have become more moderate and pro-western during the course of the war? Can the West massively expand its ground and air forces over the next couple of years? You can draw your own conclusions, I think.
>In effect, the western system is hoping for a miracle of some kind. Putin dies or is overthrown in a coup, perhaps China forces him to stop the war, perhaps … well, I don’t know really, but when you begin from the proposition that what look like inevitable developments are in fact unacceptable to you, and thus can’t be allowed to happen, then all you can hope for is that some magical force will intervene to prevent them actually happening. The future reality is too terrible to contemplate, and, no matter how bad the current situation is now, how much it is deteriorating, and indeed how much you are making it worse, it is better than the alternative. In a nutshell, this is why western leaders are carrying on with their present suicidal policies, and also why an entire generation of strategists and pundits are supporting them.
>If there is a single overriding explanation for why governments have historically done stupid things, it is precisely that: the alternative was worse. From a well-stocked cupboard of examples, let’s pluck out a few. The German offensive of 1918 was undertaken because, whilst war games had shown that it was almost certain to fail, and lead to defeat, they also showed that there was a very small chance it would work. So between probable defeat at the hands of the Allies and certain defeat, they chose an option which at least gave them a sniff at victory. The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour in 1941 made no sense strategically, but was preferable to effective surrender and withdrawal from Manchuria, with only a few days’ supplies of oil left in the country. And there was a faint chance it would work. The Argentinian invasion of the Falkland Islands in 1982 was pointless—negotiations were under way to give the islands back—but was seen as preferable by the military junta to their own removal from power and the end of the regime: typically, perhaps, defeat in the war accomplished exactly that. We know that the Soviet Politburo agonised at length over the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan, and eventually decided that going in was the less bad of two bad alternatives. And so on.
>The Japanese example is especially interesting because when it came to 1945, it looks as though the Japanese regime could not actually get their minds around the concept of “surrender.” We say lazily that certain things are “unthinkable” when we mean just that they are unacceptable to us. But there are also things that genuinely cannot be thought, because there is nothing in our experience to make that possible. Beyond the militaristic and ultranationalist mindset of the regime, and beyond the cultural specificities, was the simple fact that Japan had been victorious in war throughout its history, especially recent history, and the only attempted land invasion—that of the Mongols—had been defeated by the Kyushu samurai. It’s not fanciful, I think, to see the western ruling class with much the same mental deficiency: since the end of the Cold War, victory has been assured and, if it has sometimes gone wrong later, as with Afghanistan, there were never any consequences for western countries. For the western ruling class, then, defeat is literally unthinkable: the required neurones are not present. And anyway, defeat would lead to a type of existential terror that it is incapable of dealing with. Better to pursue the current policy, even if there is almost no chance it will work, rather than admit defeat. After all, a miracle might happen, who knows? The alternative is worse.
>And the longer it continues, the worse will be the final consequences, and the harder it will be to explain. One of the things you have to do in government on occasions, is to provide the political leadership with plausible sounding excuses for a change in policy. There’s a whole series of clichés about circumstances changing, adapting to new realities, need for fresh thinking and anyway it’s not our fault it’s somebody else’s. As late as the Istanbul talks in 2022, this would have been feasible, if only just. We can imagine a coordinated response from the West that would have gone something like the following:
<We are surprised and disappointed that Ukraine has agreed to the terms proposed by Russia. We have supported Ukraine for many years against the increasing Russian threat, and we have done everything in our power to prevent this situation occurring. We shall continue to provide Ukraine with political and economic support where possible, in the hope that it will one day be able to recover its lost territories by peaceful means, when a more moderate and sensible Russian government comes to power. In the meantime, as we have been emphasising since 2014, the West must look to its collective defence to deter an increasing powerful and aggressive Russia.
>That might have worked then, at a pinch. There’s no way that anything remotely comparable could work now. If I were the person charged with writing some anodyne self-exculpatory words for a head of state or government in, say, 2026, I have no idea where I would even start. And let’s not even get into what NATO could possibly agree to say collectively: it probably wouldn’t be worth the effort of attempting, because before you can agree on words you have to agree on what you think, and the chances of NATO being able to do that are probably too close to zero to be worth trying to calculate. This is actually part of the problem. There is no vocabulary and no set of concepts that the West can use to explain to itself, let alone to others, the mess it has got itself into, and why it was so wrong for so long. There is no area for debate, no more and less radical positions, only a single rickety edifice of blind belief which no longer corresponds, except accidentally, to reality. When this edifice collapses there will be nothing rational to say, and no way to say it, and this could be extremely dangerous. Oh, there will be much stamping of feet, shaking of fists and sporadic promises of “no surrender,” but in fact the West can do very little. The “escalation” some have detected in western policy over the last couple of years is essentially rhetorical, mixed with a few trivial gestures of defiance. Very soon, the West will no longer be able to afford even such gestures.
>The radical polarisation of the crisis, beyond anything that might have been expected a decade ago, means that even under ideal circumstances the West will find it impossible to talk to the Russians with any coherence. So poisonous have relations become, so deep is the mistrust and hostility between the two sides, so stark and nuance-free are their positions, that it’s hard to know how even the most tentative and informal of talks could actually start. The conceptual gap between the two sides, which was growing worryingly large even before 2022, is now unbridgeable. Western governments will find it impossible to explain what they are doing and why to their own populations, let alone to the Russians.
>One of the least-remarked but most powerful forces in international relations is mutual incomprehension. This goes beyond ethnocentrism—though that’s part of it—and often amounts to a failure to accept that anyone can see the world differently from the way we do. This mutual incomprehension, dangerous enough in peacetime, can become lethal in crisis and conflict, where the historical tendency is for positions to harden and become more radical anyway. This is why I don’t expect any substantive talks between Russia and the West, and why the best we can hope for is a ratcheting down of tension and a mutual snarling match.
>Now of course we shouldn’t assume that nothing will change and that each side will stick rigidly to everything it has said. Normally, nations overbid their hand in a crisis, and privately identify things that they will quietly drop once the bargaining really starts. The Russians, for example, have toned down their remarks about Zelensky’s government not being legitimate, preparatory, I suspect, to throwing that card away if by that they can guarantee a negotiation. Normally, the West would be dong the same, but we are involved instead in an unseemly and unprecedented rush to extremes where western leaders seem determined to out-radicalise each other. This is understandable, of course, if you accept the analysis above, because it is a way of keeping hope alive, no matter how small the spark may be.
>But I suspect that the gap in understanding is now so profound that the normal rules will not apply. There are precedents for this, of course. During the Cold War, both sides flattered themselves that they understood the other, and on detailed and technical issues, it turned out that they often did. But when the first western explorers visited the East after 1989, they returned glassy-eyed, with frightening stories of just how much the two sides had misunderstood everything of real importance about the other. This never got the publicity it deserved, for obvious reasons, but it showed how big a gulf of understanding was actually possible between sophisticated nations. It’s obvious that the West doesn’t understand Russia any better than it did then, And whilst the Russians have a much more solid and professional approach to the crisis, I think it’s also very probable that they don’t understand the West nearly as well as they think they do, either.
>This isn’t really very surprising when we reflect on our personal experience. Whatever your views of the Ukraine conflict, how ready would you be to articulate the views of the opposite side in terms that they would accept? Not very, I suppose. Would you even accept that they had legitimate views to articulate? I’ve tried this kind of experiment over the years in various settings, without much success. Even highly intelligent people often struggle to articulate fairly views that they don’t support, and after a couple of mumbled sentences will say something like “but of course that’s not true,” as though thereby wanting to ritually avoid contamination. At oral examinations, I’ve asked students with strong views on subjects to outline what they think are the major objections to them, or a plausible counter-argument, and the result is an embarrassed silence. Ironically, it wasn’t always thus, even in times that we like to think were less tolerant. (Most of what we know about Gnosticism, for example, comes from polemical writings against it, such as those of Irenaeus, who nonetheless quoted extensively from its arguments.) These days, even admitting that your opponent can make a logical argument for their case is regarded as a kind of weakness, and makes you suspect. Back in 2022, in my small way, I was asked by a few people who knew my interests why I thought the Russians had invaded Ukraine. But after a few minutes, the reaction was often “but how can you say that?” as though it was me who was making the arguments. And after a while, when I was attacked in print by some people for being pro-Russian and by others for being pro-western for saying the same thing, I decided I wasn’t going to answer such questions any more.
>All of which I find very worrying. I don’t think the West has the intellectual capacity to deal with defeat and failure, and I’m not sure the Russians have the capability to understand and predict how the West will react. This, unfortunately, is quite common in history, but here it could be extremely dangerous. Countries that suffer unexpected and inexplicable defeats often relapse into self-pitying victim mode, complete with complicated conspiracy theories. There are plenty of models of conspiracy theory available in the world today, and I think we can easily assemble something that would both justify western conduct and provide a comforting myth of betrayal and victimisation. Putting together various things I have read and heard in the last few years, it might look something like the following. (And remember: this is not me speaking!) >>2357022<After the fall of Communism, the West sought good relations with the new Russia and, under Yeltsin, we thought that might actually come about. Even when Yeltsin was replaced by Putin, a former KGB agent, we were still prepared to trust Russia. But of course the KGB’s main job was to weaken European cohesion and the transatlantic link, and it’s obvious now that this was always Putin’s plan. After all, Putin described the fall of the Soviet Union as a “catastrophe” and ever since has been trying to recreate it through the promotion of lapdog states like Belarus. The plans for a “Greater Russia” were described several times by Aleksandr Dugin, Putin’s mentor, and by several highly-placed Russian defectors. And the whole scheme was laid out in an influential anonymous article in the official journal of the Naval Engineering Institute in 2011, under the title Russia Should be a Great Power Again. So while western governments trusted Russia and transformed their militaries away from warfare in central Europe, the Russians quietly and steadily built theirs up. Like Hitler, Putin tested the West’s resolve. The invasion of Georgia in 2008 was not challenged, nor was the seizure of Crimea in 2014. It was only with the so-called “rebellion” in the East of Ukraine in 2014—Ukraine’s “Sudetenland”—that the gloves came off. On that occasion the West displayed some firmness, and managed to persuade Putin to agree to a ceasefire which prevented Russia seizing more of the country. We hoped that strengthening Ukraine’s forces and publicly supporting its government would be enough to deter Putin, but his plans went deeper than that. And Putin’s plans to divert US attention from the crisis and destroy transatlantic solidarity involved not only interfering in US elections, but also encouraging Hamas to attack Israel and heating up the Iran crisis. It’s now clear that the whole war was a maskirovka operation. By looking weak at the start and seeming to be losing, the Russians trapped the West into supporting Ukraine militarily, bankrupting its economies and emptying its military arsenals, all in the defence of international law and justice. And now all Putin has to do is to walk in and take over.
>It may not some out quite like that, of course, and there will be national specificities (“Le Pen’s campaign was financed by Russian banks!”) but you get the idea. Something like that is the only way I can imagine that the West will be able to construct an even vaguely coherent theory of its own defeat that it finds just about acceptable. And it contains enough of The Truth as seen from Brussels and Washington that western elites would probably sign up to it. (Needless to say, the Russians will find it utterly incomprehensible, and probably suspect trickery.) Of course, presenting yourselves as naive and gullible for trusting a foreign leader doesn’t make you look very good. But the alternative, if there is one, is certainly worse.
>The only way such a disaster could be avoided is through the rise of a pragmatic tendency among western decision-takers and influencers which recognises the depth of the hole we are in and stops digging. Unfortunately, there is not the least sign of that happening. The hole grows deeper by the day, because the only alternatives anyone can see to keeping digging are all worse. >>2357593Is your source still the state media of the country that has invaded Ukraine?
We know, collapse in two weeks
>>2357685>>2357682Come on guys, grow up a bit. Its not difficult to not post Russian state media for things related to Ukraine. If they mention Washington post, post Washington post.
The same logic applies when west talks about Russia…
Collapse status? >>2357716The difference is that the holy RT is reporting from western and Ukrainian sources, when it comes to cringe western reporting about Russia and the conflict, the source is one or more of the following
>Ukrainian MoD>Ukrainian president's office>National MoD or defence secretary of some EU nation, but probably the British MoD>Anonymous sources from three letter agency>Radio Free Europe>Western Think Tank>Retired General from some nation that hasn't fought a real war since WW2, but probably German or Dutch for some reason>Opinion column from a ex-government, cold war-era analyst who is extrapolating falsehoods about Stalin to project about PutinAnd you may notice that while western media presents itself as not being state run, all of its sources essentially are.
>>2357797>>2357803AFAIK part of the reason is that the same railways that bring weapons in from Poland are the same railways that exports Ukrainian agricultural produce, so presumably Russia doesn’t want to alienate allies and neutral parties by damaging their food supply.
I think damaging railways, bridges and roads closer to the front is also not completely ideal because Russia hasn’t actually liberated all the territories that it claims had referendums to join the Russian Federation and thus will likely need those transport links for liberating the regions.
Somewhere far enough from both the front and the border between Ukraine and the EU, probably just too much choice and you’d never be able to destroy all of the transport lines sufficiently enough and prevent their repair, thus making it a waste of munitions when by all accounts the Ukrainian military already suffers from shortages in everything other than Drones, which as we’ve seen, they transport about in civilian vehicles anyway.
>>2358085Really bizarre assertion that whether the head of MI6 is an ancestor of Nazis determines how much of an issue MI6 is for Russia’s security agencies.
>James Bond escaped with the Dossier!<Meh, it’s not like his grandfather was a Nazi or anythingGet real lmao
>>2357416Lmfao you can't make this shit up
Beyond parody
>>2358311https://energynewsbeat.co/russia-seizes-ukrainian-village/
>Russian forces have seized the village of Shevchenko in eastern Ukraine, a strategically significant location near the Kruta Balka lithium deposit, one of Europe’s largest untapped hard-rock lithium prospects. This development, reported by OilPrice.com on June 26, 2025, raises serious concerns about the security of Ukraine’s critical minerals supply chain and the future of its agreements with Western partners, particularly the United States and the United Kingdom. As Ukraine pushes to develop its vast mineral resources to support global decarbonization efforts, Russia’s advance threatens to disrupt these plans, with profound implications for investors in the critical minerals sector.
>George was able to pinpoint the motivations for President Putin to defend Russia from NATO encroachment beyond the agreed-upon boundaries in treaties, and that the real beneficiaries of the war in Ukraine were the Bank of London and the Bank of Paris. They are seeking to acquire assets globally to maintain their solvent balance sheets. With the pressure of sanctions, President Putin successfully relocated his trading blocs to other countries and managed to achieve multiple years of economic growth in Russia. So “All Putin has to do is nothing” really means that he has won the war, and just needs to wait out the bank failures in the UK and EU. There is very little publicly available data on the UK and Ukraine mineral deals, so we published only what was available. But watch what happens in the next few months.
>Russia’s seizure of Shevchenko near the Kruta Balka lithium deposit is a stark reminder of the geopolitical stakes in Ukraine’s critical minerals sector. While Ukraine’s agreements with the US and UK aim to position it as a key supplier of lithium, titanium, and REEs, Russia’s territorial gains threaten to undermine these ambitions. For investors, the risks are high, with war, infrastructure challenges, and geopolitical maneuvering creating uncertainty. However, the potential rewards of accessing Ukraine’s vast mineral wealth remain significant, particularly if peace and stability can be restored. As the global race for critical minerals intensifies, the outcome of this conflict will shape the future of energy transition supply chains. >>2358386I don't buy it yet. I mean it's not that much of an important deposit (Trump blew it out of proportion) and still they are just close, they haven't get it yet.
But at least its more important than the 12 trillion in coal ziggers used to spam about.
>>2358311y do u use tank icon to shit on ukraine
all tankanons have to be Z-gang
mods ban him for disinformation >>2358340what's the point of a wto without china ?
how much French wine and German sausage can a country trade after all?
>>2358639it's the grand strategy to use westerner's short attention spans against them. keep slow grinding until the west just can't focus anymore and gives up and moves on to the next shiny object. we're almost there.
>system imposed on everyone for decades might go against US now, so change it to something elsele rules based order we're always hearing about
>>2358639theory debate is basically done and in hibernation
>not inter-imperialist rivalry like in WW1/WW2, not two international systems failing to come together like after WW2, something else. a restoration of the pre-world war period, but doomed to fail because there's nothing progressive about western colonialism in the modern dayas applied to the war, the predictions came true
>neoliberal economies can't fight conventional wars. the gap between the reactionary (extractive-monopolistic) nature of international capitalism and progressive national development in the semi-periphery is manifesting in failed sanctions, arms race, and proxy war. there is no reassertion of inevitable european lurch to the east as part of the inevitability of liberalism under global capitalism. ukraine was sold a lie and is now experiencing it first hand as it gets left out to drythis all started with donbass rejecting neoliberalism. back then it was assumed this was quixotic, that the losers among the losers of history (stranded russians) were waving old flags and talking about a neolib-nazi alliance like schizos, meanwhile normal people were just embracing democracy.
turns out donbass foreshadowed the future
>>2358597He's right though. Ukraine needs massive investments to even BEGIN to start getting at those deposits. People arguing that Ukraine is being fought over for minerals are fucking retarded. Whichever side wins will have to invest hundreds of billions of dollars in infrastructure and sunk costs before even starting to obtain those minerals which would take decades to get past the break even cost.
Agriculture on the other hand is key for the West. If the West wins Wall St. gets control over a major grain supplier and can play with food prices to wreak havoc on other economies. Putin wouldn't care as much since he expects Belarus can export to Russia anything Russia can't produce itself so the idea that the Russians intervened for security reasons still holds.
>>2359078>continued financial support of ukraine by the E.U.This is an assumption I keep seeing from people, ironically enough, residing in the EU as though it’s obviously the case that Europe can continue to pour billions into Ukraine every year until Russia inevitably runs out of money. But it seems to me rather apparent that the European economy is not healthy and is on the ropes after 40 years of having taxes just funnelled into the pockets of the oligarchy.
Nevertheless, I suspect that this cutting of defense spending primarily means no more new factories for increasing production capacity, I can’t imagine
>Starting Oreshnik production>Expanding Kinzhal production >Starting and then expanding drone production >Reopening T-80 production and/or modernisationEtc, was cheap to do in such a short amount of time, if the economy can’t support continued investment in expanding production capacity then it makes sense just to utilise what capacity has been built.
>>2359132>Cucktin loves Pissrael by the way Lol we are deep in the making shit up phase
I love the salt Russia's history and position in the world causes. Its return as a power provokes such asshurt especially any left wing or global south support for it
>>2359246It’s people coming to the amazing revelation that, oh wow, when it was said by their own bourgeoisie that Russia is a corrupt, undemocratic, oligarch driven mafia state, they actually meant
>wah we wanted their shit but they didn’t give it to us ;__;Because interestingly while Yeltsin was acting in all the ways that are projected on to the current Russian government, but was selling off Soviet assets wholesale at low low prices, he was a champion of democracy in the region, exactly how Zelensky is also a champion of democracy as he bans political parties, kidnaps civilians off the streets to fight NATO’s battles and sells off Ukrainian assets wholesale at low low prices.
Perhaps, maybe, western “values” don’t make for a kinder and more hospitable dictatorship of the bourgeoisie that the rest of the world ought to welcome as something at the very least superior to nationalism.
So it’s not even Russia supplying the salt, just the cold hard reality that their entire gosh darn world view supplied by very smart lib authors and commentators is a lie, not inaccurate or built on half-truths, but entirely fabricated.
"A bit small": Putin called the salary of 70 thousand rubles insufficient
Russian President Vladimir Putin said that modern earnings in student squads are not high enough. His comment was made during a video conference on the occasion of the opening of youth centers.
When asked by the head of state about income, a student squad commander from the Arkhangelsk region reported earning 60-70 thousand rubles a month.
"That's a bit small. In our time we received 1-1.5 thousand rubles, but it was good money then - a Zhiguli cost 5 thousand," Putin said, recalling the Soviet experience of working in construction teams.
https://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/2025/06/28/26149028.shtml>>2359119>Cucktin could solve these problems by nationalizing every part of Ruzzian industry, including banks and the likes, but the problem has always been that he is a conservative capitalist loving cuck.Or this could be one of the areas that Putin understands and King Orange Man doesn't. Trump keeps trying to openly fight with his central bank running the same playbook he used to demonize the media. Putin is smart enough to know that having a semi-independent and highly intelligent central bank chief is better for economic stability and therefore safer for his continued position.
>>2359111>Elvira is literally a pro West liberal who originally tried to resign at the start of the war before realizing that she could sabotage from the inside lmfao. Cucktin is stupid.And they told her "no." But unfortunately for Solovyev, she is actually good at her job, so his panels can complain that she's part of a fifth column preventing Russia from winning the war, but that's theatre for the audience that needs to be convinced that Putin is still fighting against the remnants of the Yeltsyn-era deep state.
>>2359723it's cool how you spelled it yeltsyn
you're such an unbearable faggot, stop posting you literal fascist
>>2359723Elvira has:
>Maintained a high interest rate during a war instead of shifting to rationing in order to accelerate the bankruptcy of key Russian enterprises and to increase economic instability >Called for the lifting of all capital controls during a war to try to crash Russian financial markets>Pushed for tying up Russia reserves in Western markets and financial instruments rather than dumping it all onto non-sanctionable gold >Pushed for a raise in the retirement age to deplete the morale of potential volunteers even before the war She is a traitor end of story and her staying on at the central bank is proof of complete incompetence from Cucktin. Any one of these incidents should have been enough to get her shot for treason but the fact that she openly and continually sabotages Russia and Cucktin continues to allow her to get away with it because he doesn't know anything about economics and blindly believes her bullshit excuses is an embarassing and never ending humiliation ritual.
>>2359723>Putin is smart enough to know that having a semi-independent and highly intelligent central bank chief is better for economic stability and therefore safer for his continued position.THIS IS LITERALLY THE NEOLIBERAL ASSAULT AGAINST KEYNESIANISM YOU DUMBFUCK.
Russian nationalists have become so stupid they will defend IMF approved talking points and Milton Friedman because they can't admit that Dear Leader Putin is an idiot!
Independent central banking has brought nothing but disaster, poverty, and stagnation to Western economies and these fucking vlasovites start sucking off Elvira and Cucktin since they don't know ANYTHING.
>>2359119>Cucktin could solve these problems by nationalizing every part of Ruzzian industry, including banks and the likes, but the problem has always been that he is a conservative capitalist loving cuck.He really couldn't. A proper communist party could, but Putin doesn't have one of those and he doesn't want to. There is a limit to what bourgeois states can do. Nationalized enterprises in bourgeois states still run by the same logic as ones under direct bourgeois control. A lot of the Russian economy is state-owned anyway.
This is fundamentally the reason why China is socialist: it can do so much of what bourgeois states like Russia can't.
Found this very interesting, with direct implications for BRICS and imperialist exploitation:
>Interestingly, the relationship between s/v and per-capita income had an inverted-U shape in Amsden's study because her sample covered a wider range of countries, including countries that would still be classified as low-income countries. By contrast, the poorest country in our sample (India) would be classified as lower-middle income over 2000–2014. Amsden argues that countries in the middle of the per-capita income distribution are in a stage of uneven development: while capitalist production utilizes advanced technology, wage bargaining is much weaker, and labor is still in surplus compared to rich countries. Workers in middle-income countries are neither attached to traditional sector employment (agriculture) nor sufficiently consolidated as a bargaining group in modern capitalist sectors. Thus, the rate of exploitation in productive activities is higher in the capitalist sector of middle-income countries.https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0954349X23001753This points to what I've seen elsewhere in unequal exchange tables used by Michael Roberts which show unequal exchange is being driven a whole lot by the semi-periphery.
Elsewhere I'm noticing in his work that the decline of the unipolar moment is starkly correlated with a decline in the G7 rate of profit. It lowered by 20% from 2002 to 2014, which is also around when the democracy index stagnates and regresses in the world. You can just connect the dots and filter it through the way the West experiences Russia and China in the crisis of liberalism to understand why we pushed to confront Russia in Ukraine after covid.
>>2359897https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Iran-Israel-War-Prompts-China-to-Reconsider-Russias-Gas-Pipeline-Proposal.html
>The war between Israel and Iran has spark worry about energy supply security in Beijing, and a greater interest in the Power of Siberia 2 pipeline—a project proposed by the Russian side, on which the Chinese side has been in no hurry to make a decision.
>The Wall Street Journal reported the news, citing unnamed sources close to the government in Beijing. The latter has been in two minds about the Power of Siberia 2, first, because it has been hard to agree with the Russian side on things like ownership and pricing and second, because China does not want to become over-reliant on a single source of oil and gas.
>Now, these concerns appear to have taken the back seat in the face of a fresh dose of Middle Eastern instability and energy supply uncertainty—especially in gas. Almost a third of China’s gas imports come as LNG from Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, the WSJ noted in its report, citing Rystad Energy figures. Russia, in turn, is China’s third-largest supplier of LNG, after Australia and Qatar. But it is China’s biggest pipeline supplier, via the Power of Siberia 1, with flows this year set to reach 38 billion cu m, according to S&P Global.
>This is the maximum capacity of the Power of Siberia 1, but the POS 2 will have a capacity of 50 billion cu m. This is a lot of gas with no geopolitical risk that could lead to spikes in prices. As for diversification, China also imports quite a lot of natural gas via pipeline from Turkmenistan.
>Russia also appears set to benefit from the risk to oil supply from the Middle East and more specifically Iran, the WSJ report suggested. China, which is essentially the only buyer of Iranian crude, is now reconsidering this reliance as well, following the latest developments in the Middle East. One way of reducing said reliance is by boosting oil purchases from Russia, according to analysts. Russia currently accounts for some 20% of China’s oil consumption. >>2360000Yeah, they might be,
about some new urgency to sign the deal, but Power of Siberia 2 is a real project Russia and China have both been wrangling over.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russia-china-sign-power-siberia-2-gas-pipeline-contract-in-near-future-says-2024-05-17/
>MOSCOW, May 17 (Reuters) - Russia and China expect to a sign a contract "in the near future" on the Power of Siberia-2 gas pipeline, which will carry Russian gas to China, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak was cited as saying by Interfax late on Thursday.
>Russia has been in talks for years about building the Power of Siberia-2 pipeline to carry 50 billion cubic metres of natural gas a year from the Yamal region in northern Russia to China via Mongolia.The point being that Russia is indeed in the process of building more pipelines to China.
>>2360106Yawn. Ukrainian language is getting genocided by the lack of interest by the native Ukrainians in learning it
>The draft order states that during the 2023–2024 school year, Ukrainian was offered as a “native language” subject only in the occupied areas of Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions. However, as of September 1, 2023, studying Ukrainian in these regions was no longer mandatory; parents were given a choice between Russian and Ukrainian as the designated “native language” for their children’s instruction.Meanwhile, fantasies of Ukrainian nationalists, who can't even force Lvov's population to stop speaking Russian at home and study it on their own:
>Russian educational standards were introduced in occupied areas shortly after Russia’s full-scale invasion, starting on September 1, 2022. Despite this, many students continued their Ukrainian studies online, often in secret."I'd rather be uneducated than go to Russian school!"
>One young woman who fled the occupied part of the Kherson region just weeks ago told the BBC that she studied remotely the entire time from 2022 until her departure. “They pressured us to enroll in a Russian school,” she recalled. “But we showed that I’d already finished ninth grade, so I didn’t have to go.”Admission by the OSCE:
>“The so-called ‘State Security Ministry’ started pressuring schools and parent committees to sign statements refusing to teach Ukrainian. Some schools tried to resist. But by 2017, the entire education system there had shifted to Russian standards. OSCE observers were told that parents themselves were declining [to have their children study Ukrainian],” Lysianskyi said.Well, yeah, Russian usage in Ukraine only increased after the USSR's dissolution. Small languages die out in favor of larger ones
>>2360321yes, once the entirety of the world is subordinated permanently to US global domination, with no chance of independence or sovereignty whatsoever, the ukrainians can finally "stop being fascists" and take their seat at the winners table and help tell all the slaves what to do into eternity.
until then, ukrainian brownshirts will be patrolling the streets listening for anyone speaking russian and sending saboteurs to Burkina Faso and Syria to help put down the uppity uyghurs that haven't bent the knee to master enough yet.
>>2360557Ukraine does get more indefensible as we move past the fortified areas of the 2014 contact lines, I don't think anyone disputes that
I think there is frustration with the collapse of Ukraine euphoria and growing overlap of Russian and Western media, with no answer to it except to ask "well, where is the collapse then? clearly their shitty prognosis is wrong"
The absence of any coherent Western decision making speaks volumes though. There's no long term vision to halt Russia let alone defeat it. If you're in DC or Brussels you're just dealing with a growing mess of problems that old partnerships aren't handling
>>2360579Yes, I agree with all that, I am merely trolling those that post RT links or stuff they see on some telegram as if they have any meaning.
That being said, we will also have to see what is Russia's long term vision. It is just a bunch of oligarchs doing oligarch shit as well after all.
tbqh, I am shitposting too much because basically nothing exciting is happening for my fried brain and I should get a ban until a big arrow happens… >>2360321https://mronline.org/2022/08/31/from-nurseries-to-nazis/
>It was not only “Russian separatists” in Donbas who were horrified by the way children were (and still are) being educated in Ukraine.
>Five hundred kilometers from Kiev, in the city of Dnepropetrovsk (renamed “Dnipro” by Ukraine’s new government), the parents of elementary school students filed a complaint against a teacher who called Russian “the language of the enemies.”
>In 2021, the parents of second-graders at school № 137 complained that a new teacher, Viktoria Zhdanova, was telling their seven- and eight-year-old children that “Russians are enemies, they came here and colonized Ukraine” and that anyone “who does not speak Ukrainian is an ‘enemy of the state’ and supports enemies of Ukraine.”
>The parents had screen-shots and other evidence, but the school responded that they did not see any crime and would not replace the teacher. You can read a discussion concerning one mother’s complaint about the teacher at this Ukrainian website if you use an online translation service, but the upshot is that the school supported the “patriotic teacher,” the mother was smeared for supporting the Immortal Regiment (a global group of allied WW2 veterans and their descendants which is seen as “pro-Soviet” and therefore against Ukraine), and the children began demanding that their parents speak Ukrainian because otherwise they are “enemies.”
>In 2018, the director of the Ukrainian Jewish Committee, Eduard Dolinsky, wrote on Facebook that a lecture about military valor was held in Kiev gymnasium № 315. The students were provided with a “glorious” example of valor: The SS Division Galicia of the Nazis. “This is the latest trend for schools,” Dolinsky wrote, “when valor and courage are taught with examples of [Nazi] collaboration, service in the SS, schutzmanschaft, auxiliary police, and fighting with civilians.” >>2361043I got a funny feeling that none of this means anything
Sleep, wake, repeat, and you can fuck off
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/26/nato-surrender-ukraine-war-russia-vladimir-putin/
>This week’s Nato summit in the Hague was marred by a tragic irony. Donald Trump achieved a major diplomatic victory as his calls for increased European defence spending converted into reality. The final summit declaration text announced Nato’s commitment to spending 5 per cent of its budget on defence and articulated its ironclad support for the Article 5 collective defence clause.
>While the US president’s big win should have enhanced Europe’s sense of security against the Russian threat, the Nato summit left the alliance’s eastern flank with a feeling of grave unease. Trump’s inflammatory comments on the ambiguity of Article 5 left the Baltic States questioning whether Nato would confront Russia’s intensifying array of hybrid threats.
>The sense of betrayal in Ukraine was even more palpable. The Nato final summit declaration’s refusal to condemn Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine and Volodymyr Zelensky’s marginal presence encapsulated the alliance’s growing Ukraine fatigue. While Mark Rutte, the Nato secretary-general, repeated the age-old trope about Ukraine’s irreversible path towards alliance membership, his words felt hollower than ever before.
>The Nato summit’s dismissal of Ukraine’s concerns is emblematic of an alarming broader trend. After more than three years of attritional war with Russia, Ukraine finds itself lacking the manpower and weaponry to triumph. During their inflammatory Oval Office meeting with Zelensky, Trump warned that Ukraine was “running low on soldiers” and JD Vance, his vice-president, railed against forced conscription on the Ukrainian streets.
>The Ukrainian president responded to these taunts by reversing his long-standing opposition to mobilising Ukrainians aged 18-24. The up-tick in voluntary new recruits has not solved the problem. Russia’s incremental military triumphs around Pokrovsk were enabled by a shortage of Ukrainian defenders and morale in the Ukrainian army’s ranks is dipping due to frictions between the rank-and-file and senior command over tactics. Combat injuries are afflicting Ukraine’s most experienced servicemen and leaving their rookie replacements vulnerable to Russian human wave attacks.
>As Trump continues to signal his aversion to open-ended military assistance to Ukraine, war materiel supplies are poised to dry up further. As Russia’s drone and missile barrages against Kyiv intensify, Ukraine is prioritising Patriot air defence systems in its US procurements and is side-lining its past pleas for more sophisticated offensive weapons. The prospects of the US transferring Tomahawk cruise missiles or aircraft that could fully neutralise Russia’s Su-35 advanced stealth fighter jets are remote.
>For now, Ukraine can rely on the largesse of its European allies to compensate for some of these shortfalls. Germany has received permissions from the US to transfer 125 long-range artillery rockets and 100 Patriot air defence missiles to Ukraine. Vladimir Putin’s threats against Germany over the Taurus long-range missiles suggests that Friedrich Merz, its chancellor, might finally be breaking with his predecessor Olaf Scholz’s die-hard restraint. The Netherlands recently transferred the last of its 24 pledged F-16 jets to Ukraine and Norway is mulling a doubling of F-16 deliveries to Ukraine’s air force.
>European countries are also playing a critical role in strengthening Ukraine’s domestic arms industry. At the Nato summit, Britain announced plans to fund joint drone production initiatives with Ukraine and Germany built on its recent pledge to invest €5 billion in Ukraine’s long-range missile production capacity.
>These promises are music to Zelensky’s ears but are not a panacea for Ukraine’s equipment woes. Ukraine’s domestic arms industry cannot develop fast enough to neutralise North Korea’s military assistance to Russia and Europe’s depleted militaries need to supply Ukraine by ordering new weapons from the US. As Russia launches a multi-pronged offensive against Donetsk, Kharkiv and Sumy, Ukraine is unable to meet its urgent war materiel needs.
>Despite these negative headwinds, Ukraine’s unbreakable patriotism and tactical ingenuity can slow Russia’s advance. Ukrainian Armed Forces Commander Oleksandry Syrskyi’s declaration that Ukraine has stopped Russia’s offensive in Sumy and the Operation Spiderweb attack on Russian strategic bombers encapsulate these invaluable traits.
>Russia’s unwillingness to de-escalate the war despite staggering casualties and frustratingly slow gains suggests that Ukraine cannot rely on resolve alone. This realisation is turning Ukrainians who idolised Western economic and democratic institutions into cynics, and damaging Ukraine’s long-term prospects of integrating into the Trans-Atlantic security orbit.
>While Trump and Rutte hailed defence spending increases that should increase Nato’s long-term resilience, the Nato joint declaration’s marginalisation of Ukraine undoes many of the benefits of the system. Long-term security is impossible if we surrender to Russia in Ukraine. Syrian forces massacred 1,500 Alawites. The chain of command led to Damascus.
A Reuters investigation found 40 distinct sites of killings, looting and arson during three days of sectarian massacres following an Assad loyalist insurgency. The chain of command led from the attackers directly to men serving alongside Syria’s new leaders in Damascus. The killings now threaten Syria's fragile transition.
https://www.reuters.com/investigations/syrian-forces-massacred-1500-alawites-chain-command-led-damascus-2025-06-30/Drifting From the West’s Orbit, Russians Find a New Role Model in China
China has become trendy for Russians who once worshiped everything Western. Young people are learning Mandarin, and Chinese culture and goods have become ubiquitous in Moscow.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/30/world/europe/drifting-from-the-wests-orbit-russians-find-a-new-role-model-in-china.html>>2362363Yeah because China is the fourth Rome
Said no one ever
>>2362474while Xi's daughter enrolled in fucking Harvard.
Common Luka W
>>2363012That flag is cool (minus the NATO)
THREAD ON UKRAINE
in fact, are we retarded? Why hasn't anyone made a "don't thread on me" flag with a boot stamp on?
>>2362876their place being?
sorry I am confused by what you mean.
>>2362477and Turkey is NATO. Turkey, Azerbaijan and NATO are all seething rn because Israel's war of aggression against Iran failed. They partly blame Russia for technical and military help to Iran making it harder to defeat.
>>2362845Israel and Ukraine are the same thing. you drink liberal propaganda all day. fuck off.
>>2363723Not a Belarus expert but that doesn't exist in a socialist system.
>Lukashenko grew up without a father in his childhood, leading him to be taunted by his schoolmates for having an unmarried mother.[24] Due to this, the origin of his patronymic Grigorevich is unknown and there are varying rumours about the identity of Lukashenko's father. The most common suggestion is that the man was a Roma passing through the region.[25] His mother, Ekaterina Trofimovna Lukashenko (1924–2015), had given birth to another son, older than Alexander, who later died on an unknown date. Ekaterina worked unskilled jobs on a railway, at a construction site, at a flax factory in Orsha and finally as a milkmaid in Alexandria, a small village in the east of Belarus, close to the Russian border.Looking this up real quick. Not exactly your classic Clinton-Kennedy-Bush type dynasty.
>>2363776>>2363779Well, anyway. Ukraine looks really depressed, now that it's great victory of attacking Russian strategic aviation was grinded out and forgotten after the Israel-Iran conflict, with Russia striking whatever targets they want in Ukraine with drones for a month straight. I expect some another crazy impactful daring russki-defeating brave attack by the Ukraine that'll restore Ukraine's morale soon
>>2363782Zelensky has officially claimed that Kursk incursion was a strategically important negotiating piece to make Russia relinquish occupied regions peacefully, because Ukraine cannot take them back by force
>>2363989it's a shitty gotcha, what do you want me to say exactly? yes? no?
>>2363984>ultras OWNED with this gotchaalso like how you slipped in a sidepoint that the USSR being imperialist is an "ultra" position (i guess hoxha and mao were ultras)
>>2363998>So Hoxhaists and Maoists are ultras!?Well kinda yeah.
>GOTCHAIt’s not really a gotcha though, is it? It’s a pretty obvious component of considering the USSR to be imperialist and that you’re, naturally, opposed to imperialist conflicts, thus you’d have to take an anti-campist stance on Nazi Germany.
>>2364008>Well kinda yeah.a deeply odd position but i'll at least say you're consistent
>It’s not really a gotcha though, is it? It’s a pretty obvious component of considering the USSR to be imperialist and that you’re, naturally, opposed to imperialist conflicts, thus you’d have to take an anti-campist stance on Nazi Germany.it's a gotcha because it's lazy, as if it at all invalidates the position as if it actually matters if it was YES or NO or whatever, the point is that it's lazy and a distraction from any actual argument being made
>>2364010meds, now
>>2363935hundreds of thousands of russians aren't going to die
Japan didn't surrender because of the nukes
the war isn't a stalemate
the war will have an end
Russian casualties aren't as high as you claim they are
Cucktin posters are fucking tiring, and i'm convinced most of them are either Ukrop shills to begin with, or they will become traitors eventually:
>i have to support ukraine now because i could no longer take the cucktining! just like their dead traitor hero prigo. they already constantly spout every bogus ukropaganda talking point out there, it's just a matter of time until they "break" and are "forced" to become nazis due to the frustration of everyone not listening to their brilliant advice.
>>2364083>horrifying reality just stop being a pussy, people have died, people are dying, and people
will continue to die.
>>2364092Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians did not, in fact, need to die in this inter-imperialist proxy war.
Leftoids want to believe otherwise, which is why the harsh reality of this war is suppressed in this website, so that this delusion is easier to believe.
>>2364162If WW2 was happening right now I would be encouraging Germans to practice revolutionary defeatism, and for both Russians and Germans to turn their arms against their govts once the war is over, in order to establish a DotP by force.
Also in your analogy, I would be posting gore of fascist forces since they were the invading force, just like Russia is the invading force now. You are not even smart enough to correctly apply a simply analogy.
>>2364176agree, ukraine should have followed the peace treaty instead of breakng it. then none of this would be happening.
but they blew it and now it is happening and they're losing, which they deserve.
>>2364210>what Russia does is also horribleUsing professional soldiers to oppose further military expansion by a conglomerate of imperial powers to its borders.
The problem with libs is them not understanding that invasion is not equated to imperialism.
>>2364202i dont have a "position" becuase im not some fucking larper making prayers for the dead like it makes any differance.
if you think this site is so retarded, why dont you go back to wherever you came from?
>>2359637>>2360799Stagnant frontlines
when war started they almost took Kiev
now they barely take 1 fucking mile per month
FUCK YOU CUCKTIN TRAITOR, PRIGOZHIN DID NOTHING WORNG
DEATH TO UKRAINE
ZA RODINU
ZA NOVOROSSIYA
>>2363815>democracies never go to war Technically true but also a lie. Liberalization is based on a shared international system created not by democratization, but overcoming great power rivalry. That's why it's held together by a stable hegemon. Democratization doesn't preclude wars, it comes in the aftermath of them.
The main issue is democratic Russia or not, the West would still be clashing with the same national interests that exist in either form. I recently saw Chas Freeman reiterate this on Iran.
>>2364202>this is a war of necessity, probably because you believe Russia is anti-imperialistYes and yes
Le workers must be le antimilitarist.
>>2364401This is militarism. This is le bad
>>Zelenskyy was viewed by opponents, and not least by the incumbent Poroshenko, as Kolomoyskyi's candidate.[134] Zelenskyy appointed Kolomoyskyi's personal lawyer as a key campaign advisor; travelled to Geneva and Tel Aviv to confer with the then-exiled Kolomoyskyi on multiple occasions; and benefited from the endorsement of Kolomoyskyi's media empire. Once in office, Zelenskyy appeared to remove officials deemed a threat to Kolomoyskyi's interests, among them the Prosecutor General, Ruslan Ryaboshapka, the Governor of the National Bank of Ukraine (NBU), Yakiv Smolii, and Zelenskyy's first prime minister, Oleksiy Honcharuk, who tried to loosen Kolomoyskyi's control of a state-owned electricity company.
>>2364866can war nerds tell me if there are any war analysis youtubers who do historic battles? i'd like to learn more about the Battle of Cuito Cuanavale.
Thought you nerds might know, thanks.
>>2365416they did want it gone because disputed territories will prevent EU-NATO integration, but they also wanted it to unfold in a way that Russia would take the blame for losing it.
It's the same reason the Ukranos refused to accept an autonomous Donbas even though it was mandated by UN resolution. Ukraine's approach was to keep fighting until they took it back, Armenia's was to give theirs away. Either way works to the same goal.
>>2365523Yes they hoped for normalization of relations and less support for Ukraine. Nobody expected Trump to force Europeans to accept peace addressing root causes or at least SMO goals, they hate him too much
The demands for a Korea style ceasefire to frozen conflict pipeline made that evident. I think the Russian experience with Trump's diplomats showed they didn't understand much and just wanted to get points for Trump's nobel peace prize. The difference of Biden and Trump was 'however long it takes' vs 'give us time to rearm with a flawed peace deal in exchange for sanctions relief'
The real value is an old cold war marriage between libs and the right turning into a divorce, with strain on transatlantic ties to boot. This is of benefit to not just Russia, but all of BRICS. Look at how Trump's retardation in the mideast is alienating Asia. The West either declines together in isolated unity or actors go out on their own to save themselves and erode old partnerships
This is why Russia has long term prospects in this war and its enemies don't
>>2365511>if you are jew you are not a real UkropWelcome back Adolf
Or Stepan
>>2365376Direct rule from Moscow. Let's go mufugga
>>2365319I don't even know what's going on.
Normally (I'd expect) when Russia does a bad it's on my (westoid) media immediately.
>>2365573Azeri and Russian are nationalities distinct from Ukrop, so it's at least logically sound
Of course I don't believe a word out of your keyboard, retard
>>2365319I would support Putin nuking Azerbaijan
Zionist shithole
>>2365638Fucking who cares
It's just another Dolchstoß myth
It wasn't NATO winding you up and throwing you against a superior force in a suicidal charge. It was da juus
Fine I do it myself
>>2365683>>2365683Took out the reference to ISG put the call to action back in. Let's see if it holds this time.
I'm not gonna check if the links are still appropriate / working.
That is not in my wheelhouse as a very occasional thread maker.
Unique IPs: 228