All of you celebrating Mamdani are about to receive the fell for it again award, just like you did with Bernie and AOC, and Obama if you're old enough to remember. Unless a socialist is running for an explicitly revolutionary socialist party, they're going to sell out. Also, Mamdani's wife was heavily active in the cultural push for regime change in Syria.
>>2358822I remember Obama like I remember MLG edits.
You just have to remember that the left and right are the same two liberal wings that fly the liberal bird. Lolberts have been falling for Ron Paul for decades. There was also "Yang gang" and RFK Jr handjobs.
The only people who fall for these are those who are liberals and believe in liberal democracy lesser evils.
>>2358854Dude I'm telling you, you're the one that's desperate and coping and believing in social democracy which is literally incubating fascism / freikorps and haven't learned from history and you believe in liberal democracy, are not a socialist, are not a communist and you are a social democrat liberal fascist yourself fooled into believing that he is a genuine socialist when he is anti-communist and pure liberal grifter himself.
You killed Rosa Luxemburg yourself.
>>2358866Biden is not a "hood" person to anyone at all. he's a dorky senile white old man who has never lived outside of safe white communities or done any type of fighting for black people
Andrew Cuomo is a privileged Guido who's father was a governor and is constantly looking down upon people smugly insulting them. There is nothing hood about Cuomo at all nor would black people enjoy his company
>>2358881A video of art with no audio at all or comments about government that is 2 minutes long is your proof that she campaigned for a decade against Assad government and was heavily involved in regime change?
Bro this is just so pathetic I am going to leave this thread you have nothing
>>2358911There was nothing provided this entire thread to backup the claims she was heavily active in regime change and campaigned for a decade against the government. Nothing at all
It figures you are posting for tor. I haven't seen a single good post from a tor poster
>>2358822I doubt most people see this as a 'literal' victory, at the level of policy etc.
What's much more significant, and positive, is that this sets the discursive precedent for a shifting of the overton window in the popular consciousness, counterbalancing the rise of far-right political populism with an opportune 'opening' (not to be understood as sufficient by itself, but as a potentially new beginning with a momentum which can then be built off of) for a farther left than anything offered by the dying vestige that is the democratic party. Don't get me wrong, this is still too milquetoast, still orders of magnitude away from the desired radicality of a proper marxist polity, BUT it marks an insidious turning of the tides. The best course of action for the future is to groom people into more extreme ideas, and to be unafraid of embracing our own extremism. The reality is that the 'currently existing order' is the most extreme of all, it is a normalized barbarity which history will look upon with the same disgust we now have for ritual sacrifices, so, relative to the aspersions cast by this kind of hegemony, we should feel no repentance in being accused of so-called 'extremism'. Socdems should be made to feel an organic shame, a kind of hindsight realization, i.e. 'how could I have once believed this or that?' and we can only get to such a point by way of a thousand subtle cuts. Screaming right out of the gate, demanding immediate revolution, etc. is a fantastical way to put the cart before the horse against immediate material constraints. Sublating such constraints requires, first and foremost, a respect for their presence, so as to amount to eventual disavowal.
>>2358952I'll add to my original post here that most people in this thread are too busy with the usual, obscure sectarian bickering which accomplishes absolutely nothing productive and is literally irrelevant by all material standards. This website is a basement-dwelling forum, get real. Nobody gives a fuck about your 20000000 inch theory e-peen knowledge and everyone thinks they're smarter than everyone else. It's complete faggotry. Focus less on these differences and more on learning how to insidiously propagate from within a given framework, so as to buttress the already-shifting nature of the overton window, accelerating its alteration evermore.
bye
>>2359358I didn’t deny that, I asked
>isn’t a social fascist better than the actual fascist cumo?Yeah Mamdani is going to likely be a disappointment, which is still leagues better than the actual horror cumo brings.
>>2359397Assad=Mamdani
Jolani=Cuomo
DNC=Axis of resistance
>>2359460The Marxist-Leninist position defends the economic sovereignty of other countries in case puppets try to open the market as a colony for exploitation of the financial market, this means cutting off financing abroad from capitalist countries that liberals want, this follows Marx's actions in opposing liberal financing against Russian despotism in the Crimean War.
Following what I said, multipolarism is necessary so that revolutionary socialists can initiate expropriations, nationalizations, socializations and occupations of the private property of capitalists and more easily circumvent the inevitable sanctions internationally.
Now let's look at the quotes to understand what I wrote starting with what imperialist capitalism is:
<But very brief definitions, although convenient, for they sum up the main points, are nevertheless inadequate, since we have to deduce from them some especially important features of the phenomenon that has to be defined. And so, without forgetting the conditional and relative value of all definitions in general, which can never embrace all the concatenations of a phenomenon in its full development, we must give a definition of imperialism that will include the following five of its basic features:
<(1) the concentration of production and capital has developed to such a high stage that it has created monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life; (2) the merging of bank capital with industrial capital, and the creation, on the basis of this “finance capital,” of a financial oligarchy; (3) the export of capital as distinguished from the export of commodities acquires exceptional importance; (4) the formation of international monopolist capitalist associations which share the world among themselves and (5) the territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers is completed. Imperialism is capitalism at that stage of development at which the dominance of monopolies and finance capital is established; in which the export of capital has acquired pronounced importance; in which the division of the world among the international trusts has begun, in which the division of all territories of the globe among the biggest capitalist powers has been completed.
<Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, 1916, VII. IMPERIALISM AS A SPECIAL STAGE OF CAPITALISMhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch07.htmI will give another quote as an example of self-determination of nations in Lenin's time:
<In this respect, countries must be divided into three main types:
<First, the advanced capitalist countries of Western Europe and the United States of America. In these countries the bourgeois, progressive, national movements came to an end long ago. Every one of these “great” nations oppresses other nations in the colonies and within its own country. The tasks of the proletariat of these ruling nations are the same as those of the proletariat in England in the nineteenth century in relation to Ireland.[3]
<Secondly, Eastern Europe: Austria, the Balkans and particularly Russia. Here it was the twentieth century that particularly developed the bourgeois-democratic national movements and intensified the national struggle. The tasks of the proletariat in these countries—in regard to the consummation of their bourgeois-democratic reformation, as well as in regard to assisting the socialist revolution in other countries—cannot be achieved unless it champions the right of nations to self-determination. In this connection the most difficult but most important task is to merge the class struggle of the workers in the oppressing nations with the class struggle of the workers in the oppressed nations.
<Thirdly, the semi-colonial countries, like China, Persia, Turkey, and all the colonies, which have a combined population amounting to a billion. In these countries the bourgeois-democratic movements have either hardly begun, or are far from having been completed. Socialists must not only demand the unconditional and immediate liberation of the colonies without compensation—and this demand in its political expression signifies nothing more nor less than the recognition of the right to self-determination—but must render determined support to the more revolutionary elements in the bourgeois-democratic movements for national liberation in these countries and assist their rebellion—and if need be, their revolutionary war—against the imperialist powers that oppress them.
<V. I. Lenin, 1916, The Socialist Revolution and the Right of Nations to Self-Determination, Three Types of Countries in Relation to Self-Determination of Nationshttps://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/jan/x01.htmNow the text that talks about wars of national liberation:
<In short: a war between imperialist Great Powers (i.e., powers that oppress a whole number of nations and enmesh them in dependence on finance capital, etc.), or in alliance with the Great Powers, is an imperialist war. Such is the war of 1914–16. And in this war “defence of the fatherland” is a deception, an attempt to justify the war.
<A war against imperialist, i.e., oppressing, powers by oppressed (for example, colonial) nations is a genuine national war. It is possible today too. “Defence of the fatherland” in a war waged by an oppressed nation against a foreign oppressor is not a deception. Socialists are not opposed to “defence of the fatherland” in such a war.
<V. I. Lenin, A Caricature of Marxism and Imperialist Economism, 1916, The Marxist Attitude Towards War and “Defence of the Fatherland”https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/carimarx/1.htm#v23pp64h-029Now the text for those who say that every war is inter-imperialist:
<Advanced European (and American) capitalism has entered a new era of imperialism. Does it follow from that that only imperialist wars are now possible? Any such contention would be absurd. It would reveal inability to distinguish a given concrete phenomenon from the sum total of variegated phenomena possible in a given era.
<V. I. Lenin, A Caricature of Marxism and Imperialist Economism, 1916, “Our Understanding of the New Era”https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/carimarx/2.htm#v23pp64h-036 >>2359899How are the bourgeoise in China subjugated? They were never subjugated in South American leftist leaders. Maybe in Cuba they were suppressed but in most nations they aren’t and especially not in China. Or are we doing the whole thing that socialism is when the commanding heights of the economy are nationalized or some shit so I guess fascist states were socialist under that definition. Chinese bourgeoise work both in China and the US as private business owners, they own one or several factories in China and come to the US often to do business. It seems like you are an idealist without a critical view to our reality which is realpolitik disappointing. Ask any regular Chinese bureaucrat and they’ll laugh at your grandiose abstract statements. The discussion of communism is definitely worthwhile but not at the cost of the practical shit on the ground, the real bureaucratic civil service people that literally do the menial but critical jobs of running government. Often communism in practice usually means how the bureaucrats use resources and how those resources are allocated, boring logistics shit that nobody cares to learn. Recently I’ve been reading a ton on logistics, shit that the majority of you fuckers probably don’t do and focus only on abstract shit without even knowing the first of how to implement.
If some random person on the street asked me how communism would work in practice I can answer it but it will be the more boring shit that they’ll check out but it hinges on implementation, how resources are gathered allocated and executed.
>>2359808You are not understanding that my position considers an analysis with several points to be observed in an investigation in the world.
First here we have to consider complete communism (high stage of communism), socialism (low stage of communism) and dictatorship of the proletariat as different from each other, but remember that when positioning oneself one must consider national liberation, anti-imperialism, anti-jingoism, multipolarism, economic sovereignty, socialist solidarity and never financing weapons and loans for the world financial capital and its domination over other impoverished peoples.
With this, the position of the imperialist core would be to cut all foreign financing without exception because this maintains capitalist control to better bribe traitors of the working class, in addition to greater repression and greater exploitation harming all workers in the world. Another point to remember is that secessionism is an acceptable alternative if there cannot be an organization of two ethnic groups due to excessive chauvinism between the dominant nation against the oppressed. It is possible to see an example with Marx observing English chauvinism against Irish workers, the same is true of Ukrainian chauvinism against Russians since the 2014 coup and the persecution of communists, where the Ukrainian communist party is exiled in Belarus and in order to return it needs the current Ukrainian government and the Ukrainian nationalist sellouts to be overthrown.
With all this, you can have the correct position of the revolutionary proletariat in the imperialist core without needing to say that a country that is under siege by the capitalist imperialism of American and European hegemony must be socialist by opposing regime change by imperialist puppets.
>>2359930>so I guess fascist states were socialist under that definitionexcept the part where they didn't do that
>never subjugated in South American leftist leadersdidn't say they were
>the whole thing that socialism is when the commanding heights of the economy are nationalizedsocialism is a process not the end point and yes having the commanding heights of the economy under a dictatorship of the proletariat is a step towards socialism as it allows for democratic planning of raw resource and energy inputs into the economy according to party directives reflecting the needs of the population
>It seems like you are an idealist without a critical view to our reality which is realpolitik disappointing.no u
>>2359041why should OP have to waste his time dealing with dishonest people (bots) like this
>>2359116literally the first two replies to the thread were "post evidence" "but if you post evidence that's actually based". these people solely intend on disrupting and wasting people's time arguing.
>>2359397>You must pledge your allegiance to Assad, bourgeoise pig, because the guys who overthrew him are worseNotice how these smug PMC neoliberals who sound Contrapoints never, ever deny your claims. All these reptiles do is gaslight and mock warm blooded working class humans
>>2359451>"anti-imperialism" Tacitly supporting the expansionist Zionist cancer turning people into slaves as they did in Libya, Syria, Ukraine, and now Iran is HARM REDUCTION, right anarcho-Bidenists? Putin is the real fascist
>>2359554> neoliberal dictatorGlowing (from autistic radiation)
>>2358828I wasn't aware his wife was the one running for mayor. There were Hamas people who supported the rebels who I am sure don't now. Hindsight is 20/20.
>>2358822It is up to the DSA and the left to hold him accountable IF he becomes mayor. Crying about it before hand when we know Mamdani has a good record on supporting Palestine in tangible action, is silly. Even if he *wasn't* a super duper radical in every issue, being principled on Palestine is more than anyone can hope for w/ the broken and sus burger electoral system. That by itself is worthy of our support as burger reich residents.
>>2360178they were in the axis of resistance, hezbollah and other resistance groups fought in syria allied with assad's regime, hamas (although at first siding with the rebels) was aligned with assad, israel bombed iran's consulate in syria a year ago during an assassination strike the Quds leader, hezbollah armed through syria, etc.
you're full of shit and a zionist and you post this stuff to waste people's time and disrupt consensus. you're likely a bot.
>>2360399they're just begging for help from the new moderate rebel
ISIS government
>>2360577 (me)
Imagine voting for Zhoran while he promises to channel 800% more cash into the Israel lobby's efforts to cancel Antizionists.
And like, the rest of his agenda is tinged with deep liberal IDPOL >>2360970im happy for him
Sunni retards do not deserve The Lion of Damascus
>>2360970>while his people suffer in povertyfuck his sunni retards for backing ISIS and spitting on Bashar so much
I hope such 'people' get even more misery
>>2360980but he has a cute wife
he wins in life
>>2360594Man has helped Palestine political prisoners in the US and never wavered in his support of BDS and arresting Netanyahu if he ever comes to NYC. You have Zionist thugs like Betar organizing street confrontations (per Dropsite) in part due to his victory. I don't buy your shit arguments when we can smell the fear from porky. I am for a one state solution, but I don't question Hamas's charter which allows for a two state solution when they are, in practice, blowing Zionist scum into bloody chunks. Mamdani can *say* he's fine that the temporary entity exists, but as long as he takes tangible steps against the genocide, that is what I care about, IF he wins.
>>2360688Cringe.
>>2361020I am proudly Sunniphobic
These medieval fascists can eat shit
>>2359557pics or gtfo
>>2359548The Jewish demographic (distinct from Israel fans and zionists, but which may be conflated) is about 10% of the population. But more importantly, based on NYC demographics and past electoral trends, the pro-Israel side (including non-Jews) are most likely
far bigger donors, and donations are useful to political campaigns, while media flak is harmful. Mamdani has demonstrated one doesn't need it to win, but it would obviously be an easier route for most "centrist"/"moderate" politicians.
>>2361576Marx very repeatedly and explicitly says that the abolition of current conditions is enabled by and predicated on the building of productive forces. The reason bourgeois revolutions are progressive compared to feudalism is because it builds productive forces, national liberation is progressive compared to colonialism because it builds productive forces, sovereign development is progressive compared to imperialism because it builds productive forces. The entire analysis revolves around the market competition leading to a consolidation of ownership into monopolies which live off rent instead of increasing productive forces to get more profit. Once a monopoly owns all the productive forces in one sector and technology is equalized across their territory there is no longer a profitable avenue for investment and the rate of profit goes down which results in external expansion of territory to open new markets. Because of geography and vertical integration different places in the world experience uneven development under monopoly(imperialist) conditions. There is no profit incentive for a monopoly, defined by lack of competition, to increase productive forces and appropriate more profit then their competitors, because they do not have competitors. This situation is what highlights the necessity of communist revolution, and collective ownership of productive forces under a system of rational planning by a workers dictatorship, in order to overcome the irrationality of market incentives as monopoly begins to consume the very society it depends on to fulfill its never ending search for profit. A DotP with central planning is exactly what Marx described as the real movement that abolishes present conditions, by going beyond the profit motive to build the productive forces necessary to actually enable a society to exist where people work from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs, as without sufficient productive forces the material base to support this ideal is not yet a reality. The process of making that reality is what Marx called communism.
>>2361747How does adapting policies according the specific environment capitulate to capital? And what would you have people do instead?
>the law of valueI thought Marx was outdated?
>>2361745He says right before listing the 10 planks
>These measures will, of course, be different in different countries. and specifies that they are general guidelines for "advanced countries"
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