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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Not reporting is bourgeois


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How do Chinaboos rationalize the labubu consumerism?

Gachashit are not real games. Where are the supposed "groundbreaking" games China makes?

>>2393061
China gets a "+1 productive forces developed" point each time someone buys a Labubu.

Why does /ourguy/, the one true communist SocialismForAll, constantly claim that Chynah does social imperialism?

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>>2393068
Black Myth Wukong, but I never played it. I've also seen some interesting adventure games. They probably make a lot of good smaller titles you've never heard of unless you're into indie genres or also unless you speak Chinese, because maybe there are good ones out there only available in Chinese right now.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1746030/Murders_on_the_Yangtze_River/
Recent Reviews:
Overwhelmingly Positive (320)
All Reviews:
Overwhelmingly Positive (14,085)

>>2393082
Because he read that slop by N B Turner which says that "Ghost Cities" are proof that the Commanding heights of the economy are actually in the hands of capitalists engaging in self-destructive speculation with no long term planning and that China is imperialist because it isn't divided into a dozen ethnostates.

>>2393040
>lebubu
>dubai chocolate!
Anon. Are you hyperfixated?

>>2393092
On what? I was just at the gas station buying smokes yesterday actually and there was a box right next to the checkout filled with labubus and dubai chocolate, but I didn't have my phone on me to take a photo.

Why do you seem to have an emotional reaction? Why you defensive about mentioning a silly current fad? Have you built your identity around it?

>>2393068
Black Myth Wukong isn’t groundbreaking but it is very fun and has a cool atmosphere

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>>2393061
inevitable contradictions, a necessary evil of decentralize entrepreneurship initiative with deng's reform, but has also now led to deepseek, byd etc which will also develop the new quality productive forces so the relations of production can eventually change ("The bourgeoisie cannot exist without constantly revolutionizing the instruments of production, and thereby the relations of production, and with them the whole relations of society"), and toys like labubu will become abundant and cease its exchange value in 4th-6th industrial revolution wave

With their growing middle class how long until china falls to treatlerism?

>>2393082
He considers himself a "non-revisionist Marxist-Leninist" which from the way he speaks of it seems more in line with backwards unmarxist thinking. Marx was never a dogmatist and Stalin himself and especially Mao railed against dogmatism. This is why his videos get so many few views and why another ML Hakim does much better than him. He is basically an old guy stuck in the past that cannot be revived and can only dream of The Revolution™️

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It's funny how this labubu thing seems to be mostly a woman thing. I remember when this adult toy thing first started taking off in the 00s with those stupid art toys. Then it became really mainstream with the soy guys with the infamous Funko Pops. And I guess now it has spread to women. I wonder if these popmart guys pictured women would be their biggest customers or if they thought it would be the more typical target audience of weird dudes that collect figurines.

Also it's funny that labubu started out as one character in a series of different monsters in a gacha thing, but then people were like:
>Nahh we only want that one single character.

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The Maoist Labubus are a bit cute I ain't gl

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>>2393068
The Soviets made Tetris with extremely limited resources. Meanwhile China only puts out Chinese versions of tired trends from the AmeriKKKan and JapaneSSe industries.
Yet another L for Dengism.

Why is China afraid of doing anything materially against the Zionist Entity?

>>2393209
Chinas foreign policy is all about non-interference in other countries.

>>2393212
Why they sided with Pinochet, Contras, Mujahideen and Nepalese monarchy then?

>>2393212
Not even saying to do a SMO. Just what's stopping them from just ceasing trade with them? Besides being a punch of pussies

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>>2393205
>the soviets made Tetris
One guy made Tetris in his free time and he wasn't too happy with the Soviets because they stole it from him and didn't give him a dime.


<Do you think the brains of the people that went through Communism are somewhat wired differently compared to those who only have known Capitalism?

>I don’t like to think in such an abstraction about Soviet people, I don’t believe in this mentality, people are all different, and there are so many different positions and points of view. So, yes, the Soviet paradigm was very strong, and all the people of my age and my generation have been impacted by it.
<I grew up in and during the Soviet Union and, despite belonging to it, I consider myself a dissident as my father was and most of my friends were.
>I am still feeling the impact of this stuff on myself, though. For example, when I see a lot of people I still see them organised vertically and I am always wondering who is the boss; this vision that people are always structured as a pyramid comes to me from that time.

>>2392867
I very much doubt a protest featuring a man wearing a Blue Sky White Sun shirt and waving both ROC and PRC flags is full of DPP/Pan-Green supporters.

>>2393068
>Gachashit are not real games. Where are the supposed "groundbreaking" games China makes?
And what makes Genshin Impact not a Real Game? Because you don't pay $80+ up front not counting DLC to play the game?

>>2393235
>I am still feeling the impact of this stuff on myself, though. For example, when I see a lot of people I still see them organised vertically and I am always wondering who is the boss; this vision that people are always structured as a pyramid comes to me from that time.
yeah pyramidal social structures…

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>>2393253
all the Real Games are made by dead companies, sorry.

>>2393253
It's a BOTW ripoff with waifus and 2000% more monetization. Not exactly breaking new ground

>>2393235
Much like Ayn Rand this guy was given all his education and abilities thanks to Soviet socialism and then spent the later half of his life badmouthing the system. Many such cases!

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>>2393068
Sultan's Game and Dyson Sphere Program BTFO any other management sims I've played

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hundred-Year_Marathon#Synopsis

Worth reading? How much is truth and how much is conspiracy/conjecture? Is the author ignorant or insightful?

>inb4 WAH its biased!

duh. not what I asked. Their professional job is to study a country so I'd be surprised if they just hallucinated a book.

>>2393212
The perception of non-interference. Don't confuse the two.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Typhoon

>>2393103
> 92% private homeownership
The PRC is more treatlerite than America, it's a nation of petty-bourgeois Proudhonists.


>>2393209
>>2393219
>>2393221
China is Bordiga-pilled

>>2393499
>>Gordon Chang, writing in The National Interest, said the book “looks at the critical issues of who is in fact making policy in the Chinese capital,” calling Pillsbury “our time’s Paul Revere.”
if gordon chang approves of it, i approve of it

>>2393343
to be fair every system accuses its dissidents of being leeches.

"oooooooooh you dirty commie america raised you so good and gave you all the treats of imperial plunder and now you betray her with your dastardly collectivism"

>>2393519 (me)
>>2393528 (me)
I just wanted to add that I feel inadequate compared to bloodgasm's 20 inch BBC, with my little… iraqi… clitty…

wazzup beijing

>>2393499
>Pillsbury argues that China, drawing inspiration from the ancient Chinese strategist Sun Tzu,
What is like the western equivalent?

>>2393499
it's blind men touching a collosal beast and calling it an understanding. china is a contradiction walking on two legs, it is the dance of opposites. only through the eye of Marx does the dragon reveal its shape, only with the lens of dialectics does the mist part.

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>>2393635
a liberal historian, adam tooze, recently went to china to open his eyes but the brightness was too much. but for a glorious second, some of the fog lifted, although he didn't fully understand it. he said:
>China isn’t just sort of an analytical problem, it is THE political problem. The development of China is the master key, I think, to understanding modernity. And without it, you won't have a hope of grasping what’s going on.
>For folks in the West who are writing the history of modernity or attempting to think of the modern world, there just is no reasonable way of doing that anymore without a profound understanding or an effort, at least, to not just think about China, but in a sense almost to think outwards from China.
>This is the biggest laboratory of organized modernization that has ever been or ever will be… That changes the game. All of our previous social-theoretic theorizing was a prelude to this. The industrial history of the West was a preface to China’s industrial history.

Ah yes cutesy brainrot

Why Did you guys lied to me, China is not socialist it is capitalist?

I HAD SUCH HIGH HOPES, NOW IT IS RUINED. CHINA IS A CAPITALIST HELL HOLE.

>>2393219
'twas a different time.
>>2393500
Everyone does cybercrime. If you don't do cyber shit you are not a real country.

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>>2393755
average westoid "research" lmfao

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>>2393779
Source? a guy that can't even manage a wordpress install properly.

>>2393779
>>2393782
BUT, the ruling class owns the means the of production, and there is inequality

>Non-SOE lead sectors are highly privatized, and there is a billionaire class

>the boom and bust effect of capitalism is in effect in housing sectors

how do you explain this.

>>2393792
The hukou system is exploited by the rich

workers prom other provinces have restriction on living in other provinces.

china can be anything but not a socialist state, it is capitalist, just not american style capitalism

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>>2393779
how do you explain this??

>>2393803
That's literally illegal and the police arrested the managers involved lol

>>2393803
healthier than american diets

>>2393796
>>2393792
Wrong. The exploiting class, as a class, has been eliminated. The system of exploitation of man by man has been abolished. The hokou system operates in full accordance to socialist law of planned and proportional development.


>>2393807
>>2393808
still does not rebuts the claim, china is capitalist, it is high time we stop looking toward them and start to look for an alternative.

>>2393813
Wrong. China is Communist

>>2393813
i agree that china is capitalist.

>>2393822
Wrong. The socialist transformation of old system of private property is complete.

>>2393822
y wud u post sth so controversial yet so brave

Chinese communist party is communist, prove me wrong

>>2393209
Because unfortunately, Occupied Palestine has been a very good partner for China. From Occupied Palestine, China has received loads of military tech, the J-10 that was in the news for shooting down the Rafale may have been based on an Occupier prototype called the "Lavi", Chinese air-to-air missiles got their start from Occupier missiles like the Python.

Trade with Occupied Palestine is therefore, kind of a net-benefit for China. As for the Palestinians? I've always said that onus is on the Western proles to do something about their countries actively aiding and abetting the genocide (mass tax evasion, or even outright uprising) as opposed to the neutral party on the other side of the world. I wouldn't even blame the Arabs too much since they're all under the nuclear umbrella.

>>2393845
sameanon
>they're all under the nuclear umbrella.
<CORRECTION, I mean nuclear blackmail

>>2393845
Wrong. Socialist commodities alleviates poverty stricken gazans. http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-03/23/c_137058111.htm
You want socialist commodities to stop flowing to palestinians. You want palestinians to suffer. You are zionist.

Just watched a Chinese YouTuber who doesn’t show himself but uses an AI voice thing to explain what’s going on in China and interestingly he shows the diverse political opinions in China. He criticizes when China cracked down on private tutoring claiming it led to high unemployment which makes little sense since that “industry” is definitely not even 1 percent of the gdp of China. Something tells me is that he’s a middle class dude who wanted to benefit from private tutors as opposed to public education cuz you have to interact with other poors. Also he praises China whenever it allows its private sector to do whatever it wants and heavily criticized the CPC for left wing policies in fact he absolutely hates any left wing policy that the CPC does. The only policy that is left wing that he supports is the infrastructure investments.

>>2393912
I think he means private tutoring makes education unequal when you have to compete academically to get a good job


>>2393914
No, he is a huge fan of private tutors and criticized the CPC for cracking down on the private tutor industry.

>>2393912
does he not realize it also wiped out foreigners coming in on visas and private tutoring both legally and illegally? the avg Chinese educator probably came out better from it

>>2393912
What stupid bourgeois reactionary opinions.

>>2393912
Private tutoring is a parasitic behaviour of its own, in India the government doesnot invest in education sectors and government schools, but allows private tutoring, which in turns charges thousands of rupees for highly competitive exams, this business are so big that a whole city just runs on this business (Kota in Rajastha), they are higly predatory, if you want to see what private tutoring can become, see India's education system. You will see horrors of unimaginable order. Fuck I hate my country

>>2394047
I'm sorry Indiabro. not a great situation. unrelated but I visited rajastha one time and it was my favorite part of the country. chand baori would be a great place to shoot movies

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>>2393338
>It's a BOTW ripoff
You still on this after 5 years? Do you still call FPS games "Doom clones"?
>>2393845
>From Occupied Palestine, China has received loads of military tech, the J-10 that was in the news for shooting down the Rafale may have been based on an Occupier prototype called the "Lavi"
Very interesting that the True Socialists use the literal exact same arguements used by American jingoists 20 years ago to demean Chinese engineering. Kind of like how they became Palestine's bestest friend after they discovered they could use this against China as though they were the ones supplying free bombs to the tune of billions to Tel Aviv. The J-10 looks like the Lavi for the same reason that it looks like the Eurofighter, Novi Avion and Rafale - because this was the trend in fighter design during the 1980s when it was designed. There was also a cancelled fighter called the J-9 that looks a lot like the J-10 and is the most likely influence for the J-10. There's absolutely no evidence that the J-10 is a "Lavi clone" or that anything other than Chinese engineering was used to create the J-10.

>>2393912
this guy has to be a gusano

>>2393996
>>2394008
>>2394047
>>2394230
This is who I’m talking about. Also he’s not a gusano because he lives in China but he’s definitely a rightist. He opposes US hegemony but he’s heavily critical of the CPC and takes a heavily rightist stance. As I pointed out his only favored Chinese policy that is leftist in his own words is state investment into infrastructure.

>>2393873
>Socialist commodities alleviates poverty stricken gazans.
All the article proves is that China trades with both the occupiers and gaza, not sure what your problem is
>>2394219
>There's absolutely no evidence that the J-10 is a "Lavi clone"
If you say so, I already said may have. But the evidence for missiles and other advanced aircraft is undeniable
https://web.archive.org/web/20170308122426/http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp473.htm
Uncle Sam had to step in to block this one. This is all publicly available information.
So to restate the point, trade with Occupied Palestine has generally been a net-benefit for China. Hence why China will never come down too hard on Occupied Palestine.

>>2393338
All FPS is either a DOOM ripoff, Halo ripoff or CoD ripoff asking for more money by that metric.
Gacha are a game genre that mostly don't get any respect by their creators.

>>2393912
Private tutoring is a part time job for many. It's cancerous, though, so it has to go

Hey chinaanons, what do Chinese people think of labor automation? (articles welcome)

China has a reputation (past or current) for sweatshops and performing a huge amount of the world's production. There have also been plenty of recent discussion of automation, such as lights-out manufacturing, increasing in China.

In the West, automation has a negative reputation as workers are no longer needed and therefore can be fired and unemployed. Many workers have already been fired prematurely because idiot bosses have tried to replace them with AI tools, which failed, which shows the eagerness of businesses to reduce workers for the sake of profit.
Do Chinese workers share similar worries, or is there a sense that technology advancement in industry is good for workers?

>>2393779
>chuang is basically the ony source of China being capitalist
Chuang is a westoid propaganda outlet. You only have to read like half a paragraph of theirs to see it

>>2395209
China is a healthy-ish country, therefore you have old folks in sweatshops still, when it automates they just go on pension because it's too much of a bother to find a new job at that age; young folks are in hype industries, which are the ones automating other industries. Not chinaanon, though

>>2393641
>or ever will be
What an arrogant prick. Surely people said the same about the USA in the 50s.

>>2395215
>Not chinaanon, though
Thanks for admitting, I still appreciate the info.

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>>2393803
>Third prize is my piss. Fourth prize is you're fired.

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>>2394252
what no world awareness does to a mf
I know, you warned us

>>2395211
chuang is completely undialectical and against marxist leninism and mao zedong thought and dengi xiaoping thought. it's basically anti state socialism leftcom purity shit and partly anarcho communism. they are idealists, they no concrete roadmap to socialist transition, these are the losers of history, it's not materialism.

>>2393111
>He considers himself a "non-revisionist Marxist-Leninist"
Its called a Hoxhaist.

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Anon in last thread said bohrium next hot thing that's coming out of China. How does one invest in Chinese companies from the heart of the Empire

>>2395799
Comrade, where can I learn about Hoxhaism and Impact of Hoxha had on Albania?

Or is it just meme?

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Does anyone know any sites that hold ICON Group report research published? Picsrel books are only available on amazon by print on demand, they have no ISBN only an ASIN and cost hundreds or thousands of dollars which is double for me since my country's currency is worth two times less than the dollar.
There are hundreds of these research reports on all the relevant topics of medicine and other sciences.
I'm posting about it here because I'm interested in the research and speculation on China, but unsure if I should spend what amounts to a month of my salary for such books. Does anyone know a way to get the ICON Group research PDFs online for free? I tried all the sites I could think of for finding PDFs and haven't had any success.

>>2395843
>Comrade, where can I learn about Hoxhaism and Impact of Hoxha had on Albania?
Just read Hoxha? Duh? Ever heard of marxists.org?

>>2395272
He has a point but his point is uncritical. It is true that experts often are the ones that lead whether it is an individual economic or political unit or many units together(society) its a necessary hierarchy of expertise, but at some point it just becomes technocracy and oligarchy with a parasitic elite where the low level and mid level bureaucrats are the smart ones running society. Even from an ancient Chinese perspective this reigns true. But like you said, it’s what no world awareness does to a mofo. I mean that famous book about how low level employees usually know how a business works way more than the executive at the top, the idea that the higher up you go the dumber you become.

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Indian man is impressed by the pubilc toilets in a third tier city in china

>>2396244
>toilet tracking

truly dystopian 😩

crazy commie propaganda on the streets of Ningbo

>>2395869
That website looks awful, I download PDFs from marx2mao. Enough readable than small 10pt letters on that awful website.

Are there communist Labubus?

>>2396721
Labubu is already communist

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Chinese Internet is quite literally in meltdown right now.


>>2398181
A crosst-dressing dude had sex with 1600 supposedly heterosexual man and sold access to the videos for 20 bucks a month. From ugly dudes to handsome muscular guys. From Chinese to foreigners. The guy in the pick is a foreigner who has gained instant meme status because he had a funny reaction. The meme roughly translates to 'Hm something is off here, well might as well stay.' He has gained Internet fame as well as other men deemed funny characters.

>>2395745
>leftcom purity shit and partly anarcho communism.
Its neither of those, both honest and authentic leftcoms and ancoms hate uyghur islam, natlib shit, minority posturing and radlib idpol shit. Chuang is literally just another CIA cutout that uses NED for its sources.

>>2398196
Chuang is literally some pseudo maoist naxaloid turdworldist larp by the CIA that advocates for ethnonationalism under "decolonization" bs

>>2398190
Like for. example there is the Spring-Summer-Fall-Winter guy who came back every three months lol.

>>2398197
The "ultra left" in China is maoist "anti-revisionists" like the MCPC

what is up beijing?

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>>2398190
I wanna hate but you gotta respect sister hong

>>2398190
Sounds funny and Gachipilled, you have more stories of this buttfucking saga ?

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>>2398190
Reminds me of the french diplomat the Chinese spis entrapped with an actor who pretended to be a woman off-stage to trick him. They even got an orphan and pretended s/he had a child.
It was a famous actor as well. To this day i still don't understand why they didn't just get a woman spi instead of doing the whole 90's comedy esque escapade.

>>2398318
>To this day i still don't understand why they didn't just get a woman spi instead of doing the whole 90's comedy esque escapade.

women are too silly to be spies OFC

>>2398318

The French diplomat was bisexual, and possibly crypto-obligate homosexual. MSS catered to the important tastes.

>>2398285
This is the future Deng wanted

>>2398740
At least they're not incels.

If guys weren't so cheap they could at least fuck real pussy.

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Looks like one of those Japanese ghost movies.

>>2398744
The story goes that sister hong only solicited men that were into cucking. All those guys thought they were fucking someone's wife which makes sister hong an even more noble and endearing character because she saved THOUSANDS of marriages and families.

>>2399359
Doesn't she have HIV? Hardly saving anyone if this is the case.

Is Yoshimi (British communist who lives in China) right?
Does China have a Treatlerite and consumerist society?

>>2399772
China will never get to socialism in 2050 as the food delivery market will pass 1 trillion USD in 2035 and make the PRC a fully irredimable treatlerite country

>>2399772
Westoid projection
China is a net exporter of labor power while west is s net kmporter
average income in china is literally world average
They mathematically can't be treatlerite

Btw anti-consumerism is a fascist dogwhistle

>>2399772
Oh, I guess new nato op just dropped, western leftists will be cheering on ww3 with china for the sin of being not socialit ebough, just like yugoslavia

>>2399772
yes,home-owners are bourgeois

>>2399802
That's right Chang, better order as much dumplings as you can on Meituan as there will be no more treats for anyone east or west when the nukes fall

>>2398318
They wanted to test him and see how stupid they can be.

>>2398740
Bro’s fat. I don’t know why these guys are that desperate when there are better women and traps out there

>>2399578
Bulls deserve it. Glad they’re getting infected with it.

>>2399813
>Chang
This is the/ prc/ thread not Taiwan you obese illiterate burger

>>2399813
>muh treats! le treatlerite!!
Look, you seemingly have /USA/ for this shit, can you not shit up every thread with your autistic hyper-fixation on [new twitter pseudo politics word] of the month? In fact if you are so in to these faggot twitter 'discourse' why not just stay there and post about it to your hearts content to people who actually care and are dumb enough to take these thing seriously?

>>2399813
pepering for war?

>>2399784
>China will never get to socialism in 2050 as the food delivery market will pass 1 trillion USD in 2035 and make the PRC a fully irredimable treatlerite country
Watch as people here unironically say this a few years from now.
>>2399844
People say Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerburg ruined the Internet. I say that Jack Dorsey did more than either of them to ruin the Internet. I will never get why the Left loved that fucking regime change app known as Twitter so much. It has been the source of almost every negative thing that's come out of the Internet for over a decade.

>>2399802
Neither China nor Yugoslavia are/were socialist but still I don't condone Western attacks against them.
>NATO op
Is accusing people of being intelligence assets the only thing you guys have in response when people say even the most remotely negative thing about China? Yoshimi is a communist who has lived in China for a great part of his life and I trust his judgement on Chinese society far more than online dengists whose knowledge of China comes exclusively from ML shitposts and Cheng Weihua tweets. You should read his blog for a more detailed account on how consumerism and market reform affected the Chinese:
https://lateralthinkingtechnology.wordpress.com/2022/10/21/the-billion-yuan-question-the-everyday-in-china-socialist-modernity-and-why-im-bored-of-talking-about-billionaires/

>>2399772
You mean to tell me that the country who gave us Labubus, Genshin Impact and cheap knock-offs of every product on Earth might have a problem with over-consumption and chasing market trends? Wow…

>>2399922
I was wondering if I should buy a labubu but I'm thinking the trend will already be over by the time its arrived from shipping and I don't have anyone significant to show it to who would understand so I guess I won't
unless I find it at a physical store somewhere Ig

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>>2393040
>Labubu Dubai Chocolate edition.

>>2399876
>I will never get why the Left loved that fucking regime change app known as Twitter so much.
Same, but what i'll never get is why they're so insistent on spreading their twitteroid shit across different websites, always posting screenshots to their site, only want to talk about things that are downstream to what twitter is talking about, etc. It's incredibly obsessive behaviour but if they're so obsessed why not just stay on the platform with the people like them?
I think i will never understand these twitteroids.

>>2399772
>consumerism
>quick and easy
>developmentalism
>state campaign of imposition of market economy
Shit take

>>2398318
They were gay. They just pretended not to notice as a legend

>>2399772
Consumerism existed in the Warsaw Pact where there was hardly any private industry at all. It obviously exists in China.

>>2399772
Why is it saying sth like
>my real opinion
always be followed by the most retarded shit ever
It's btw a terrible expression, like "let's be honest"
because of the implication you see
Are you lying/just saying things the rest of the time?
That out of the way, I think it helps to not see things in a black-and-white way. Even if that alone is "not real communism" again.
What is over-consumption?
I "pride" myself on austere living but I have maybe 5-10 kilos too much, drink and smoke. Some of my vices I am "on my way" to fixing, at least reduce consumption.
Well, only time will tell if that actually happens. Good intentions are cheap. What matters is of course, staying power, follow through.
Anyway, life needs things to live. And if you can afford it, of course you will drive up consumption. Have you tried subsisting on the bare minimum? I haven't, I can only imagine it sucks monumentally.
Don't get old, kids. If you can at all avoid it. And fix your posture.

The people's fast fashion

>>2400364
Where do you get your clothing?
Not to judge too harshly here, I have been looking into getting things second hand. But I am a bit of a germaphobe. I don't think I enjoy used clothes. And I really own very little clothes, however I need some every summer and every winter because of wear and tear.
Judge not, lest ye be judged, eh

>>2400370
I only have what I need and I mostly buy clothes new wherever when the stuff that I have becomes too damaged like normal persons should do. Fast fashion is about "going shopping" and throwing clothes you wore two times because you got mind fucked by marketing into being a treatlerite. There are real envieonmental consequences to this and it is a problem in china also.

>>2399911
Everyone in the west who isn't explicitly an anti-imperialist is a NATO-op since birth.
Everyone calls themselves a communist these days, it doesn't mean anything. Neither does living in china (see serpentza)

If you don't actively deconstruct your westoid nietzschean brainwashing, you will think of yourself as a pro-china communist while secretly disdaining "the simple minded consumerist bugmen who just want to enjoy their lives instead of striving for GREATNESS (will to power)"

>>2400373
That's good and I wasn't denying it. Just a shot in the dark. Don't hold it against me, eh
I do much the same in terms of clothes.
My larger point being it's a gradient. People will spend if they have the means.
Meaning we are in the realm of quantitative difference, not qualitative.
I don't even know what a gradient is, truthfully. English motherfucker
Sometimes things/expressions just pop up in my mind and I don't even know if they even make sense. Still I use them. Language sure is tricky.
Reposted for clarity (or something)

>>2399922
Westoids accuse the biggest net producers in the world of "overconsumption".

Explain how this is not just another way of expressing "fucking third world insect slaves should spend their labor-power on ME, instead of enjoying the fruits of their own labor"

>>2399772
being anti-AI is such an easy tell tell for petty-bourgeois libshittery
Noooo not my "authentic" "real" arterino (petty bourg artisan commodity).

There's a lot of AI generated graphics on store fronts and ads etc here as well, because it's more efficient than paying a petty bourg artisan, deal with it.

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literal nietzscheanism lmao

>>2400386
>>2400380
>people making the same basic critiques of consumerism and AI's effect on culture that they make in the West
>Nietzschean
>muh bugmen
Where do people like you come from? How do you end up like this? Are you misunderstanding concepts like consumerism on purpose?

>>2400386
Chinese are so awesome - they treat artist-lets like the intelligentsia that they are, i.e. not nation's brains, but nation's shit. Automating away professional artists (but not hobbyists because hobbies are based) is the way towards progress, and only luddites stand against this

>>2400405
>i.e. not nation's brains, but nation's shit
Lenin wrote that about intelligentsia in bourgeois societies. The USSR itself highly valued the arts and made extensive efforts to support them. If art is an essential component of the superstructure than socialist art is a vital component for the reproduction of socialist society. Again, where do you dipshits come from? How do you end up with these nonsense takes?

>>2396726
I need Labubu
I need to support Chinese communism with Labubup

>>2400408
>Lenin wrote that about intelligentsia in bourgeois societies.
But it applies splendidly to all the traitor intelligentsia (and scientists) in USSR who betrayed communism. Stop lying to yourself, intellectuals are stupid cunts who don't even know what's good for them

>>2400415
>But it applies splendidly to all the traitor intelligentsia (and scientists) in USSR who betrayed communism
Most of the traitors who actually mattered were bureaucrats and career party officials. Following your line of reasoning we can conclude that communist party members and officials are the real shit of the nation.

>>2400380
Didn't even call it "over-consumption" far as I can see. Just "consumerism", meaningless at best.
Life needs things to live. We have to go back to basics here, but I already said my piece more or less.
There are degrees to this shit.
Degrees, that was the word.
"Consumerism", fucking meaningless. The basic question is to what degree are you "over-consuming".
Everyone, every organism consumes. Again, super simple stuff, however I feel it is most appropriate to this dumb level of discussion, such as it is.

>>2400420
>who actually mattered
Good to see that you agree that artists don't deserve some outlandish amount of recognition they think that they are owed to by the society

Ok that specific post that was replied to said "over"
Well, do you wanna calculate the impact of the avg w*stoid vis-a-vis a Chinese?
No?
I will say it will not shine a good light on you, bud

>>2400404
>same as in the West
Exactly. Anti-consumerism, when targeted at thevwest, id s manifestation of imperial subject anxiety from the knowledge how those goods are obtained, and when targeted at the third world, it's bourgeois anxiety that the proles are consuming instead of producing. "If you've got time to lean…"

There's nothing in marx about "consumerism", sorry libshit

>>2400420
>>2400423
Also, don't you find it funny how authors readily invoke the "death of the author" whenever anybody dares to criticize their style in context of the art, instead of their "art" alone? I just hate duplicious cunts like this

>>2400422
It's not that complicated, consumerism is not when you buy things, it's an attitude and a lifestyle that celebrates the individual consumption of superfluous commodities at the expense of society for dopamine hit.

>it's not that complicated
>meaningless drivel about what is in people's head
You're an incorrigible twat. End of.
Once again, I already said my piece.
Like, start with yourself. That's it. Critique is all well and good but most incessant critics are objectively just shit themselves. That is just my own personal experience, eh
Your mileage may very but I have high confidence in my opinion here.

>>2400408
Proletarian artists (eg those employed by the state or studios) have no reason to bitch about AI, it literally makes their lives easier & increases their output. Especially in a planned economy

The only ones bitching are petty booj artisans, whom it undercuts

>>2400428
>gambling is meaningless, marx didn't mention it, they do it i china which means it's good

Bleeding hell, one last thing
As for the content (of other people's heads)
Quantify (in a solid way, not ""look at this line go up"") or shut your mouth
That's just my friendly advice.
Also again, everything is graded on a curve.
Do compare real things to real things, not the castle in the sky that is "communism" in your head or whatever you even try to conjure up.
Peace out.

>>2400429
>>2400408
>>2400429
There are no proletarian artists under capitalism. They are all but bourgeois parasites until reformed by socialism

>>2400425
>Anti-consumerism, when targeted at thevwest, id s manifestation of imperial subject anxiety from the knowledge how those goods are obtained, and when targeted at the third world, it's bourgeois anxiety that the proles are consuming instead of producing.
It's neither of those things actually. Consumerism is by definition consumption as an end unto itself which is inherently wasteful, self-destructive, degenerate, and a disease exclusive to capitalist society. It doesn't become less so just because it's happening in China.

>>2400439
Why would a society, that has huge productive edge over capitalism, with workers controlling the measns of production, be more frugal and stoic and ascetic than a capitalist society? It's fully expected (and proven in practice) that a socialist society more dynamic in that it fits needs of the people better, and has much more "consumerism" than a capitalist society

Ok got a little angry there again
>>2400439
>an end unto itself
bs again, do you even know what an end in itself is?
If you ask anyone they can tell you, more or less rationally, why they do what they do and consume what they consume.
You think people want to be fat? Consume to consume, what a concept.
Again, I can only advise "sort out your own house first". Basic shit.

>>2400443
Yes. Imperialists choose to be fat. Consumerism is destroying their bodies and their societies, like ameriKKKa

>>2400442
>Why would a society, that has huge productive edge over capitalism, with workers controlling the measns of production, be more frugal and stoic and ascetic than a capitalist society?
You're again missing the point. Consumerism =/= consumption. It's consumption as its own end. Consuming in ways that are deliberately inefficient or conspicuous simply to demonstrate how much you can consume. It's the modern equivalent of European gentry having lawns just to show that they had so much land they could afford to waste it by planting grass.
>If you ask anyone they can tell you, more or less rationally, why they do what they do and consume what they consume.
Ask somebody why they buy expensive clothing brands instead of generic cheap stuff of similar or better quality and they'll say they're buying it simply to own the brand. This is widespread phenomenon in capitalist societies and you have to actually be retarded to pretend it doesn't exist.

The absolute state of this place, self proclaimed "communists" pretending to not understand basic bitch concepts like consumerism.

>>2400439
Woah, sabocat started speaking in fluent hitlerese

This always eventually happens with "anti-thirdworldists", " anti-multipolarists", in short, western labor-chauvinists

>>2400444
something something gout, the disease of kings

>>2400445
Consumerism is consumption without production like what we see in imperialist countries. Consumption is the end for imperialists. You may be describe prosumerism, where the prosumer consumes the product, which thrives in Communist China but does not exist outside Communist States

>>2400445
So, consumerism to you is this one example of buying brands instead of buying no-name goods?

>>2400450
>Consumerism is consumption without production like what we see in imperialist countries.
Sorry Anon but you can't just make up your own meanings for words that already have clear definitions.
>>2400451
Consumerism is consumption as its own end rather than the practical satisfaction of needs. If you buy clothing because you need to be clothed you aren't engaging in consumerism, even if it's good quality or expensive clothing. If you buy expensive brand name clothing specifically so you can show people you have expensive brand name clothing, you are engaging in consumerism.

>using less labor (by employing ai art) and rnjoying the fruits of efficient production is the same as wasting land and water on grass
Meaningless moralistic drivel.

Still no concrete or material claims made at the charges of "consumerism", just vibes about the icky bug people who want to live comfortable lives enjoying the fruits of their labor instead of " achieving greatness" or whatever fascist dogwhistle

Every westoid is a protestant, even the "communists"

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Ah shit here we go again
I am getting to old for this shit
No matter, one last slam dunk of a liberal, then I will pursue something more productive (see how that works btw, give me another hit of that internet, I can see a semi-funny meme, that's the shit)

I can't even get behind that mindset or that speculation of what goes on in other people's head.
And I am very good at that myself, I daresay. And yes, that is a thinly concealed threat.
You think everyone is all jokerfied?
>It's not about the money, it's about sending a message.
And not just in the west but the world over? No, talk to people.
Damn
"consume to consume", dumbest shit I read in days, and I read a shitton (a metric fuckton even) of dumb shit on the regular.
Kant's brain challenged successor ova here

>>2400452
??? But I want to wear cool clothes I can show off to others. Why are you against people enjoying their lives to the fullest? You want everyone to walk in the same generic dirty grey shirts?

>>2400453
>using less labor (by employing ai art) and rnjoying the fruits of efficient production is the same as wasting land and water on grass
No they aren't because consumption and wealth aren't the same thing as consumerism. Consumerism is a cultural phenomenon emphasizing consumption as a form of identity or pursuit of status. It's not consumerist to live a comfortable life full of material prosperity. It is consumerist to consume deliberately excessively and conspicuously.

So, mass produced fast fashion is consumerism because it's cheap crab to be thrown away after a few uses
Luxury brands are consumerism because its tacky brand worship

Best is practical, sensible, midrange quality wear, produced by your local tailor. Support small businesses!

Is sabocat the meanswear guy from twitter?

Every society btw has the "pursuit of status" and "consumption as identity"
The egyptian pharaos were buried with their vast treasures just to take a random example
Jesus CHRIST on a crystal meth binge

>>2400457
>Consumerism is a cultural phenomenon emphasizing consumption as a form of identity or pursuit of status

Like what? Apple fanboys? Nintendo kids? What if I choose Chinese because it has better accessibility and functionality than Westoid analogs?

>>2400459
>So, mass produced fast fashion is consumerism because it's cheap crab to be thrown away after a few uses
I didn't say that.
>Luxury brands are consumerism because its tacky brand worship
Yes, brand worship is consumerism.
>Best is practical, sensible, midrange quality wear, produced by your local tailor
The best practice is high quality, functional, aesthetically pleasing clothing produced by socialist industry to meet the needs of the population.
>>2400460
>Every society btw has the "pursuit of status" and "consumption as identity"
Not every society, just the class based ones. And capitalism takes it to a much more absurd and excessive level to the point where its destroying the ecosystem and ourselves.
>>2400461
>What if I choose Chinese because it has better accessibility and functionality than Westoid analogs?
That's not consumerism it's just choosing a better product. By comparison always buying Nintendo products regardless of their cost or quality because you identify with the brand is consumerism because the point has ceased to be acquiring an actual functional good. The point then has become consumption for the sake of consumption.

>communism is when you dress in rags
I can tell there was status in hunter-gatherer societies.
Did they not make ornaments?
They just didn't have the means to pursue such on a larger scale.
Jfc
I'm not dealing with this.
Learn history

>>2400463
You're just being retarded on purpose aren't you?

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Learn history
Actually lemme help you out
cause I am such a nice guy
And I do think a number of you can profit (in the colloquial sense) from the basics here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_Doln%C3%AD_V%C4%9Bstonice
Does this look like "over-consumption"?
She's a big girl

>>2400483
Yeah man fat fertility idols are totally the same as an economic system that structurally requires people to consume as much as possible to the point where it kills them and makes the planet uninhabitable. Wanting to have food security is the same as waiting days in line for the new iPhone just because a new iPhone came out. Acquiring food for the community in a hunter-gatherer society is the same as profit seeking commodity production. You're very smart.

Did I fucking say it is "the same"
Actually it is you people that make everything the same (capitalism is communism, peace is war) when it suits you.
I just hate this dilettantism. You think you know but you don't.
Kill yourself, that is all.

Such a simple thing.
You are thinking "it is the system making them do this and that"
not considering that "the system" itself has a material basis. Here's the point where you fail at the basics.
Again, major projection. I do not see these things in the same way as I actually know my history.
You should try it.


>>2400488
At this point Anok it's just abundantly clear that you don't actually understand what consumerism even is no matter how many times it's explained to you. Buying a cell phone because you need one is not consumerism. Having a cell phone is not consumerism. Buying the newest iPhone even though you already have a perfectly functional one, but you want the newest one just because it exists? That's consumerism. It's a cultural phenomenon deliberately promoted by capitalist society to maximize consumption and therefore profit, entirely beyond what is rational, functional, or what could ever exist under socialism. I don't understand why this concept is so hard for you to grasp.

I told you. You're a genuine imbecile.
If you must speculate on the contents of people's brain (presumably to hold judgement, just a guess)
bring some real stats
Fuckhead
You think you know but you don't.
absolute cretinism, my gott

>>2400493
>KanagawaWave
Chinese libtard forum

>>2400493
>BUT HAVE YOU TALKED TO THE KULAKS AND THE GUSANOS???
Yea, china is not an imperialist country, therefore chinese workers don't enjoy imperial superprofits, and their wages are tend towards the global average. Woah

You don't talk to the we*stoid (-brained twat)
You kill them and dispose of them
How about that for pragmatism

>>2400498
I don't have to speculate Anon, people openly express consumerist attitudes all the time. It's not exactly subtle. In fact there's an entire industry dedicated exclusively to promoting it. It's called marketing.

Good for you man
Hit the books, preferably somewhere far away from here

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>>2399772
Funny how these narratives started popping up after the world found out that china isn't actually a mass of starving slaves living in polluted collapsing cities.

Now the narrative is "china is a CONSUMERIST SUCCDEM CAPITALIST COUNTRY NO BETTER THAN US"
^ explains their prosperity with "they just doing succdem capitalism"
^ therefore, no alternative to capitalism exists, it's all just capitalism
^ justifies imperial aggression and chauvinism because "they're just a consumerist capitalist society same as ours, it's all grey on grey who cares"

Westerners are shameless.

>>2400512
What is the cure for such behavior?
Bullet to the dome.

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>>2400493
It's literally a series of Chinese language subreddit for Chinese Kulaks.

>>2400452
Consumerism is the imperialist term for parasitism. You are imperialist parasite. There is no argument you semantic cuck

>>2400512
>Respectability politics is bad
I'm 100% sure this is a PMC radical that lives exclusively in gentrified areas

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>>2399359
>All those guys thought they were fucking someone's wife
I doubt this guy is thinking he is doing the cunnilingus to someone's wife… Which makes me wonder how many of these guys were just gay and how many thought they were fucking with a woman, because there are certainly some, you can see them trying to see what's under the skirt…
I hope few of them are gay men because this must really suck for them, I mean also for the cheaters but I don't really care for them.

>>2400554
I imagine all those guys meeting up with her, seeing a penis, and saying, well, since I'm here, what can I do…

>>2400493
Yes I've flirted with lots of Chinese women in Interpals, they all say their country is great

>>2400493
>reddit
Thats like thinking everybody in SEA is a nazi chud because of SEA twitter nazis

>>2400565
Woah woah woah, let's not accidentally misgender people
Do we know if it's an actual trans person, or merely a crossdressing gay man?

>>2400446
Sabocat supports russia

Poverty cvlt ass uyghas in here be saying that China’s working class are so poor that they can’t afford “treats” therefore they are exempt from “Treatlerite” status. Poverty cvlt ass uyghas still using GDP and not PPP to check out how domestic workers are doing in China which is quite well and their savings are quite high. In fact the Chinese government has a problem that their population save too much money and don’t invest it leading to a lower GDP than would naturally be if people used their money more.
>Chinese analysts say Chinese have a culture of obsessive saving of their money
>government is pushing citizens to actually spend their money in the economy

>>2400613
Based chinese proletariat not buying stuff

>>2400613
nobody cares about your 'treats' and your 'treatlerires' go back to twitter and stay there you OBSESSED faggot.
You are beyond pathetic.

>>2400446
dumb mfer really cant into nuance, so like many retards they end up fighting strawmen while rejecting marxist concepts they arent familiar with

>>2399772
I have no idea if she's right, but I do know that the book she cites is tiring mulling on "tradition". The author isn't a communist and the book is worthless from a communist perspective.

>At the back of the atelier, sectioned off by shelves, Tang Xiaodu has his new friend sit down in a comfortable armchair, he sits down next to him, pours him a cup of tea, and it can be seen that he feels at home at Zeng’s place, and Stein is happy that at last he has a chance to talk to him, and after he listens, as Tang Xiaodu slightly rectifies the explanation of a moment ago concerning the two Chinese characters, that is, the two signs conceal a release of the soul’s tension as well as an inundation of the spirit, nearly bursting-out—the visitor from far away starts to say something, how he feels himself to be in such a difficult situation, for that which he admires so much, which at the beginning of this journey to China he thought still lived in the depths, unbroken, which he thought still nourished the China of today from these depths—well, he is happy that he can complain about this now to Tang Xiaodu: because he, Stein, sees this last ancient civilization, this exquisite manifestation of the creative spirit of mankind, as dead, and he is afraid that apart from Tang Xiaodu there is no one to really talk to about this, and he is afraid that there won’t be anyone to talk to about this, because his experience is that people consider the opposite to be true, and celebrate the renewal of Chinese traditions in cultural monuments restored in the most dreadful and coarse ignorance, or their attention is engaged exclusively by modern life, and are altogether unconcerned with that which was, even if it has passed, their own spiritual tradition.

<vgh, an industrial society has a qualitatively different culture from a feudal society. I am very intelligent because uhh…
<look, five more historical references with no context!

I had to force myself to look over the material to try and find anything that stood out from this gray mass, and this feels like a good one. Marxism bounces off of the author's head.

>But Mrs Liu is cut from too stern a material to be thrown off her rhythm, and Stein feels as if he were listening to a speaker at a Chinese Communist Party meeting, the platitudes gushing out unimpeded and unswayed; but what is even more dispiriting in this plastic paradise is that Mrs Liu doesn’t understand what they’re talking about, Mrs Liu cannot comprehend what they want to say to her because, as far as Mrs Liu is concerned, ‘change is the natural law of historical development’ in which ‘the modern and the traditional must coexist in harmony’—well, from this point on Stein makes no effort to try to force things, and it isn’t even necessary, because the chief executive of the justifiably renowned Shanghai Museum needs no questions in order to say what she has learnt, and Mrs Liu recites and recites her lesson—when suddenly they notice that a single human trait of this highly placed functionary, this inaccessible official, this being whose beauty and femininity are by necessity concealed in the neutrality of the uniform of a high-ranking civil servant, a single human trait remains undisguised, perhaps because it cannot be disguised; that while speaking, like someone occasionally giving in to a bad habit, Mrs Liu takes a lock from her wondrously glittering, ebony black hair, from where it falls above her shoulder near her tiny, fine ear, she takes one lock, more precisely, the end of a completely fine strand, she pulls it in front of her face and places the end in her mouth, evidently unconsciously, and she recites and recites what she has to recite but all the while sucking for a few seconds at this clearly sweet lock of hair. Then like someone who realizes what she is doing, she quickly throws it back, straightens it, then a few minutes later, as she forgets herself, starts the whole thing again.


>Not a single sentence remains, not a single word from the so-called conversation which lasts for about an hour, only this one tiny fault in the Liu mechanism; they cannot remember her beautiful noble face with any precision, they cannot recall the colour of her clothes, already after three or four days it is all mixed up if she had two or three glittering diamonds on her fingers, if she was wearing, for example, a bracelet, no, not even that, almost nothing, they can only recall that movement[…]


I don't understand why a communist would use this book to make a point. It's not good at describing the problems that the xitter user in question found in a digestible way.

>>2400762
Westoids have a sentimental attachment to modernity. They think modernity is "their thing", and when third worlders develop and start enjoying the benefits of modernity, they "mourn" that they can't gawk at peculiar ethnic savages performing their lil' ethnic cultures in little costumes and going "twang twang" on the local stringed instrument

>>2400616
Wrong. They are the largest consumers of vidjas and cell phones with gacha type shit.

>>2400632
Cry leddit liberal.

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>>2400493
What this anon is engaging in is a textbook example of a tactic called "Magnified Minority", where "dissidents" that talk about their own country like Japanese soldiers in the 1930s are held to be the "real" China. The same tactic were used against the USSR and its allies, where liberal nationalists and Nazi collaborators were held to be the true representatives of the "captive nations" of Eastern Europe. Telling that anti-Communists of all stripes use the same tactics as creationists and climate change deniers.

>>2400493
>direct USD to RMB exchange rate wage comparison

Lol, lmao even

>>2400802
Wrong. Chinese Communist producers are not consumers. They made the shit. They are prosumers

>>2400512
China is a social democrat country with markets and a capitalist mode of production. The Capitalist reform led to the erosion of communal life of the Mao era and has led to an individualized atomized society that values capital accumulation and consumption of commodities above anything else just like in liberal western societies. No, this doesn't mean that I want Western military intervention in China, you fucking schizophreni.
Sorry to burst your bubble and ruin your noble savage view of Chinese people as perfect patriot New Soviet men

>>2400997
If they make shit they are shitter, tho

>>2400997
Very smart post, very intelligent, cool.

>>2401007
if this is true, then this "erosion" and "atomization" and "individualization" should have some material consequences on the fabric of society.

Can you provide some evidence that china suffers similar social issues and to the same extent as western capitalist countries? This should be easy if it's a capitalist society just like the west.

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>>2401029
>>2401051
Are you people really this incapable of not legitimizing bad-faith actors? Would it kill you to not feed the trolls? All you'd have to do is not feed the trolls and this place would be better even with the shitty mods.

>>2401054
>Can you provide some evidence that china suffers similar social issues
Is there not poverty, corruption, wealth inequality and exploitation of labor in China? Do you honestly believe it's a perfect communist utopia where nothing bad ever happens?
>To the same extent as Western societies
No one is denying that China is a better place to live than most Western countries at the moment (provided you're middle class Han Chinese living in one of the big cities) but they're still a Social democrat country at best and the historical role of social democracy has been to regulate Capitalism, not eradicate it nor its illnesses.

>>2401007
Becoming so delusional that we are starting to call China social democrat now?

>>2401069
>you're middle class Han Chinese living in one of the big cities

Pretty sure you have a higher chance to succeed at life if you are not a Han Chinese in China

>>2401081
It is and it is lesser evil.

>>2401081
delusion

>>2401081
Explain how it isn't without coping about evil dogmatist ultras gatekeeping Socialism.

>>2401081
It's a strech, social democracies usually have free healthcare.

>>2401112
Wrong. Communist China has universal healthcare

>>2401118
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servizio_sanitario_nazionale_(Italia)
Did I miss the revolution? Are we a socialist republic?

>>2401118
Universal access to a paying insurance that doesn't cover everything and only part of things it covers means it's not free retard, Macron is more socialist than Xi


>>2401125
Well I see a red star on that social security card…

>>2401069
No, but being a communist, I think in terms of concrete things and their concrete effects on concrete people, not idealistic, categorical abstractions like western anticommunist marxists.

>>2401131
macron isnt the one that set up the french social security you fucking retard, he is the one destroying it

>>2401084
its pure westoid projection as usual

>>2401170
Socialism is a mode of production not an idealist abstraction.
It is YOU who's being an idealist for believing China is Socialist simply because they call themselves so.

>>2401084
If that were true the CPC wouldn't have to implement affirmative action policies to help ethnic minorities in China (much to the butthurtness of Han chauvinists). And the less we speak of how Immigrants are treated the better.

>>2401239
Wrong. Migrants have the greatest rights in Communist China. Unlike the capitalist world, migrant living conditions improve every year in Communist China.
https://english.www.gov.cn/archive/statistics/202504/30/content_WS6812249ac6d0868f4e8f2395.html
https://english.www.gov.cn/archive/statistics/202405/05/content_WS6637246fc6d0868f4e8e6bd0.html

>>2401247
those articles refer to internal migrants from rural regions. most are han chinese.

>>2401186
Xi raised the retirement age so it's a draw between who is the more neoliberal wrecker

>>2401112
"Social democracies" are usually countries with a population of ~10 million in the Western European imperial core. China had to abandon full universal healthcare because some parts of China developed so fast and independent of the state sector that state healthcare couldn't keep pace and give equal coverage across all of China. This not something that should necessarily be celebrated.

Healthcare is a non-productive sector. This means that the quality of healthcare in any country will depend on the productive sector of that country and will never magically advance on its own. This was true even when everything was 100% state run and funded under Mao and prompted him to launch the system of barefoot doctors, which was still much more low-quality and especially low-tech compared to urban healthcare. Western China will take a long time reach a level of economic output similar to Eastern China. What you are demanding is not something that, let's say, Sweden already has. What is currently happening in China is more like if Sweden decided to pay for half of the healthcare spending of every, let's say, Iraqi person beyond maintaining its own universal healthcare system. You are demanding that Sweden should pay for nearly everything (based on the ratio of per capita GDP between a coastal province and a poor inland province to calculate how much a rich and a poor province could contribute to a full universal coverage), not just half.

Chinese healthcare might have been a capitalist nightmare in the '90s which, from what I've read and what I know directly as someone from an Eastern European country, was most likely preceded by the breakdown of state-run healthcare as bribery of doctors became extremely rampant and de-facto mandatory with the lack of proper salaries and equipment caused by privatization and extreme competition in a country the size of China.

Things have improved a lot with universal basic coverage and subsidized coverage for people designated as poor. 90% percent of hospital services are provided by state-owned hospitals and usually only they have access to high-tech high-cost treatments like MRI and PET scans. Currently private hospitals are for posh people who want their feet kissed and would like to cut in line, even if it means paying unnecessary amounts of money. In a way, this is part of human nature. No matter how good services the state provides, people will wonder if they can get the healthcare system to allocate more resources to their own relatives when they see them suffering or dying. If the state is too lenient in this regard, "prestigous" quack doctors will proliferate and fleece a ton of people like in the US. On the other hand there is nothing wrong with bourgeois retards getting fucked by other capitalists. What happens in the bedroom should stay in the bedroom.

It's obvious that it's the 'muricans who are laser-focused on healthcare as the primary measure of socialism. In reality there is no other capitalist country that is so retarded that it would allow rent-seeking behaviour in the healthcare sector without any boundaries and let huge masses of people die or get disabled every year just to funnel rent to a particular section of capital when they could keep them healthy instead so they can be exploited by any capitalist for longer span of time.

>>2401103
The definition of social democracy itself.
>>2401112
Insurance is not free healthcare.

>>2401267
Trvke: China is social democracy without the democracy.

>>2401266
Why do dengists cuckingly justify that neoliberal bullshit? The soviets gave hundreds of millions best quality and free healthcare with a state 100 times more broke. China has no excuse

>>2401270
Good. Then it is well on it's way too become socialist.

>>2401131
Wrong. Healthcare is universal in China.

>>2401266
Cont.
In the end, current level of development is due to the state sector and how it was able to funnel partially capitalist development into the state sector, including state-run services. China is a country with a partially capitalist economy overseen by the state and a communist party. Western socdem countries are worker's paradises at first glance for people outside the imperial core or for people that are not from capitalist hellscape that is the US. In reality their level of development and wealth have been maintained by capitalist exploitation of the third world and they never had a real socialist government that controlled the economy. As a result the moment bankers who control Western economies decided that it isn't strategically beneficial for them to treat workers well, they started slowly eroding social progress regardless of who the people voted in power. In contrast the Chinese economy is controlled by the state and everything is improving gradually with people reporting astronomically high rates of satisfaction with the CPC.

>>2401281
Healthcare is nearly universal in China but not quite. And it's not a right in the constitution of the PRC.

File: 1753313034947.png (440.29 KB, 512x362, ClipboardImage.png)

>tfw you realize labubus are not even sold by the chinese government directly but just another company in china like all products made you own
>tfw owning a labubu doesn't mean everyone is a dengist now with a hidden sign of support a sigil to undermine western influence
>tfw you find the price of one of these plastic things is 15 euro
>tfw you wont become a billionaire because the rare ones are random and you're not wasting money through potentially hundreds of boxes
>tfw china still hasn't reverted the laws and policies ratified by americanophile jiang zemin on the 31st meeting of the standing committee of the 10th national people's congress of the people's republic of china on december 29th, 2007

>>2401254
Doesnt matter because foreigners are the same

>>2401273
Do you realize that European healthcare systems without upfront costs are still paid for by the people? It isn't even muh tax dollars/whatever currency that the state could spend on "better" things (give it all to billionaires) as a braindead American conservative would say. Fully state-run healthcare is usually paid for by a special tax the the government can only spend on healthcare or general social security.

Paying out of pocket literally means nothing if there is no rent seeking behaviour, the poorest of the poor get coverage and services are physically available everywhere.

Stupid Chinese people why did they decided to be born in a country that was semi-feudal and semi-colonial less than a century ago? Just be a person from a country that won the geopolitical lottery during the cold war and spent the previous hundred years pillaging every non-Western country.

>>2401299
Even in countries with universal healthcare that gives you full coverage you can decide to not pay social security tax so that you will be forced to pay for every doctor's visit. Just like how you can decide to not pay property, income, etc. taxes and nothing will happen beyond being summoned to a court, having your bank account drained then your belongings and real estate auctioned.

There are very few countries with free healthcare that is actually free and not paid for by targeted taxes. I'd imagine it's only gulf monarchies that pay for it with oil revenues and maybe North Korea where it's directly paid for by SOEs without any taxation system.

>>2401304
ok well but you gotta post proof for that because those articles say internal chinese migrants specifically

File: 1753313666848.png (1.01 MB, 800x600, ClipboardImage.png)

>when the US is at trade war with China but China still obliges by UN-UNODC law lobbied by the US to spread international crime and uphold a global economic system of intentionally created crime
>when the defenders of China shrug it off as not affecting anyone
>when the defenders of China shrug it off as there not being enough demand in China to change the laws parted of GESICC passed by americanophile jiang zemin and instead continue compliance with laws forced by other bourgeoisie nations in the UN and the creation of the UNODC

>>2401081
Which means dengists are winning, couple months ago China was Hitlerite, now its socdem, they are slowly getting whittled down 🥳😂

>>2401308
No i dont. Foreigners live good lives in Communist China. Even foreigners are obligated tk enroll in the Communist healthcare system. The welfare of everyone improves every year.

>>2401316
ok. i won't take your word for it stranger on the internet.

>>2401299
Wrong it is a right according to basic health law
Article 15 Basic medical and healthcare services refer to such services as disease prevention, diagnosis, treatment, nursing and rehabilitation that are essential to maintaining human health, adapted to the level of economic and social development, equitably accessible by all citizens, and provided through the application of appropriate medicines, techniques and equipment.
>>2401317
You have demonstrated no evidence to back your claim that foreigners are not equal in Communist China.

>>2401315
SocDems are even worse. At least Hitler didn't kill Rosa.

>>2401318
I did not make that claim.

>>2401319
🤓
>>2401315
Dayum, Bordiga can't support China anymore le sad

>>2401313
Do you think that China could end the opioid crisis in the US by flooding the streets with psychedelics instead of fent or whatever is the current legal alternative that the cartels peddle?

File: 1753315240881.mp4 (12.24 MB, 720x1280, Another ACP banger.mp4)

>>2401277
…or fascist

>>2401338
>…or fascist
In your own words, define "fascism".

>>2401305
>Stupid Chinese people why did they decided to be born in a country that was semi-feudal and semi-colonial less than a century ago?
But they aren't right now so why don't they have universal healthcare now? Stop making excuses formthe CUCKery.

>>2401347
Dengist China

>>2401347
USA and Israel

>>2401315
Hitlerites are edgy SocDems.
>>2401321
BordiGOD still making opportunists and falsifiers extremely ass pained to this day.

>>2401305
>Blablabla smol bean helpless China can't afford healthcare for everyone when even Cuba can
Dengoid cope.

File: 1753316873317.png (1.22 MB, 974x1080, qbanal29cm7f1.png)

>>2401315
>Which means dengists are winning, couple months ago China was Hitlerite, now its socdem, they are slowly getting whittled down
It's very telling that the Actual Socialists seem to be unable to pin down what exactly China is. On the one hand it is fascist, then it is social-democrat and then it's neoliberal and this in just in this very thread.
>>2401349
Since most people here obviously don't read (And you very obviously show this) and Dimitrov might be a bit too advanced for you, I'll give my own definition: Fascism is a counter-revolutionary movement lead by the bourgeoisie against the proletariat using downwardly-mobile petit-bourgeois and lumpen-proletarians as foot soldiers. Appealing to the most reactionary strata of society, fascism sees liberalism as having failed to prevent the rise of socialism and tries to avert class conflict through aggressive militaristic nationalism, crushing anything remotely socially progressive.

>>2401364
>On the one hand it is fascist, then it is social-democrat and then it's neoliberal and this in just in this very thread.
Pinochet was a social-democrat neoliberal fascist, lol. its not contradictory.

>>2401364
I can't tell you exactly what China is but I can tell you what it isn't: Socialist.

>>2401364
>what exactly China is
A Capitalist state with markets and private property. Simple as.

>>2401364
Admitting that China is socialist means admitting them opposing communism. As simple as. USSR was denied the right of being socialist by all the Westoid ultras for this very same reason

>>2401299
Lying faggot lib. China is a socialist nation with 100 percent socialist healthcare and its one of the most powerful health industries in the world.

>>2401403
That doesn't make any sense, could you expand on that?

>>2401407
Opposing communism is bad rep for leftists. Opposing fake communists, who lie about being communists, is acceptable, though.

>>2401364
Bad faith retard.

>>2401413
Prove that China is capitalist without making Lenin's USSR also to come out capitalist

>>2401403
>>2401410
>>2401417
Neither the USSR nor China ever achieved a socialist mode of production. Cry about ultras all you want but this is objective truth.

>>2400500
not really libtards, its worse

>>2401417
>without making Lenin's USSR also to come out capitalist
lenin never pretended the dotp had magically abolished capitalism

Why do Chinaboos here use "westoids" as an insult as if a great majority of you people weren't American or European idiots placing all your hopes and aspirations on President Xi to save you from your terrible lives and bring about glorious communism without you having to do any work at all?

>>2393301
is that Farmville?

>>2401419
objective truth is that the USSR didn't have private property as center of state nor the private usurpation of collective wealth so calling them socialist is corect as capitalism can't exist without all part of it's system.

>>2401427
We are guilty of imperialism and must make penance, oh Xi send me and the westerners to the cotton fields I beg you

>>2401431
USSR had private property, markets and commodity production. Ergo, they were operating under a capitalist mode of production although one mostly administrated by the State hence why any Marxist worth their fucking salt can correctly identify both the USSR and Dengist China as State Capitalist.

>>2393813
>china is capitalist, it is high time we stop looking toward them and start to look for an alternative.

So liberal democracy?

>>2401446
Maybe try communism instead of Dengoidism.

>>2401438
>USSR had private property, markets
in majory controlled by the state and planned by the state.
>commodity production
the only one they had.
>they were operating under a capitalist mode of production although one mostly administrated by the State-
so they didn't had Private property only commanded by the state to be organized by their workers, nor the value produced would go to the hands of capitalist class as they were liquidadet.
>inb4 you could argue that x were comparable to y in the USSR
Comparations aren't theoretical evaluations, you could compare capitalism enough to make them feudalist, they aren't.

>State Capitalist.

complete joke of an label, shows weak capacity in analysis, all capitalism is state capitalism yet not a single one will/did/can have private market relations without an actual capitalist class to engage in said pushing of the state for their private gains, after all who the fuck is gonna need to engage in financerism or privatisation if they have no actual econimic power thus real power to bank on and use the state for their own goals lile any capitalist would do, People pushing for this empty label need new material.

File: 1753324830542.jpg (48.2 KB, 640x480, Citlali_punch.jpg)

>>2401367
>Pinochet was a social-democrat neoliberal fascist, lol. its not contradictory.
Fucking pseud. Pinochet killed or exiled thousands of Chilean leftists, including many social-democrats because they were considered Allende supporters.
>>2401395
That's because you're probably a borderline illiterate that can't define much of anything that isn't spoon-fed to you by social-media algorithms.
>>2401403
>Admitting that China is socialist means admitting them opposing communism. As simple as. USSR was denied the right of being socialist by all the Westoid ultras for this very same reason
It's always been funny to me how they're the truest fucking socialists that ever lived, yet their only praxis is simping for regime change and proxy wars. Instead of defending socialist countries under attack, they seem more keen on prove that they aren't True Socialists and deserve no support. Remember their rallies to support the "Libyan Revolution" back in 2011? Remember how people here were celebrating the "fall of the dictator" in Syria last December?
>>2401423
>not really libtards, its worse
I had always wondered what kind of wretched filthy cowards fought alongside the Japanese to enslave their own country. One look at that subreddit and you'll have your answer.
>>2401446
>So liberal democracy?
It would actually be worse than that. Put a bunch of fascists in power and hope it works out. This will somehow eventually lead to True Socialism, just like the Syrian Revolution! The sacrifices of the rebels of 1989 and Wang Jingwei's forces will not have been in vain!

>>2401452
Nobody in this fucking thread has advocated for regime change in China. Why are you people so hysterical? Why are you always fighting strawmen or imaginary r/worldnews users instead of arguing against what's being said?

File: 1753325449472.png (143.31 KB, 2347x461, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2401357
>BordiGOD still making opportunists and falsifiers extremely ass pained to this day.
Like this?

>>2401460
Dengoids are insecure theory-illiterate people who see everything as part of being a grand battle between Good and Evil countries. If you say anything remotely negative about Chinese "socialism", even if it's backed on Marxist or even Maoist arguments, that means you're a CIA-NATO-Mossad neoliberal agent.

>>2401467
>>2401449
>>2401359
>>2401349
Bordiga would've supported Deng

>>2401471
TRVTHNVKE

Daily reminder that bloodgasm is better than iraqileftcom/zankara/moffin

>>2401466
It makes your booty hurt so it works, doesn't it?
>>2401471
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1956/12/bukharin.html
He did defend Bukharin and the NEP as strategic retreats on the face of the USSR being isolated and technologically backwards but never once he claimed this was at any point Socialism. However Dengist capitalist reforms were a thousand times worse than the NEP, let alone the complete neoliberal ratfuckery that came under Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao's rule.
Xi is a step in the right direction but he still is playing too much of an "enlightened centrist" bureaucrat without any real beliefs other than total supremacy of the State just like he criticized the Stalinists as being in the article I linked.

File: 1753336980484.jpg (125.59 KB, 1079x1073, 2f012fe4a957dafd.jpg)

>>2401413
>shitting on socialist movements
<calls anyone else bad faith

<waahhh why havent they implemented my child like views on socialism in China
Maybe because they did and it failed spectacularly.

>>2401452
>One look at that subreddit and you'll have your answer.
i know exactly what it is, thats why i dont see them as libs, they are originally an offshoot of a certain tieba culture that took a xenonationalistic turn

>>2401477
And what of it? That's not even winning at the special olympics or a particularly low bar. I don't know what that is. A barking dog would be better, in terms of informational content. I don't want to hear from any of these people.
A lot of them (or all of them) seem to think we are here to hear their obnoxious shit. No, we visit this place despite their presence. I thought we just had bad luck with identityfags for some time. But now I see you have to be a special kind of obnoxiously stupid to have the desire to pick up an identity to post here. That's why their takes reflect a terribly uneducated largely narcissistic, total overconfidence in their opinion etc.

>>2401427
Westoid is a state of mind, bub. Akin to zionist and in large part overlapping.
Also ofc there is no use arguing the second part of your run-on sentence. This isn't even a loaded question, it's already beyond that. Just a spew of nonsense, as per usual. Show your work then.
No work, no right to speak.

>>2401315
*ding ding*
It sure is slow going trying to inject some modicum of historical awareness (colonialism etc.) into liberals et al.
This situation is basically the same.

>>2401452
>Fucking pseud. Pinochet killed or exiled thousands of Chilean leftists, including many social-democrats because they were considered Allende supporters.
And hitler purged the SA, so what?

>>2399876
I would argue that Reddit is worse. It creates a glowie liberal bourgeois hivemind NPC factory.

>>2401359
That's not what I was talking about. Any country can institute universal healthcare of a certain quality like Mao did with doctors that practiced medicine based on feudal superstitions, but no country can institute healthcare that doesn't match its level of development of the productive forces. The CPC accepted elements capitalism in the field of healthcare and in general because China had to get ahead in development at all costs.

The way things currently stand basic coverage covers everyone so there is no distinction between people with and without a residency permit. The vast majority hospitals are state owned that people pay out-of-pocket expenses to. European countries with full universal coverage have people pay for healthcare from their own pockets, it's just that it's just that the insurance fee is withdrawn from people's bank account every month before they'd receive as what is called a "tax". Social security is a special tax on income, it doesn't draw from profits directly. People with a higher reported income will pay more, but China more than makes up for it by massive investments into healthcare by the state when a lot of "socdem" European countries deliberately underfund their state-run healthcare so they can give all of their budget to Blackrock-controlled companies in the form of subsidies.

You are mostly complaining about legal technicalities when the CPC has a massive track record in championing the interests of Chinese workers.

>>2401685
The funniest thing of this bit is that production declined with the initial liberalization, lmao. You're trying to square a circle.

So let me get one thing straight (you are not).
Let's try to have some civilized exchange instead of this pointless af discussion which has been seen hundreds or more times.
Purely because I am always curious about these contradictions (the italians say you have to be able to hold a minimum of 5 conflicting views in your mind).
In any case this seemingly never ending cycle seems to be spiraling around a particular contradiction. Which I only just noticed just now. Not to my credit but then I wasn't paying too much attention.
It is important to you (speaking to ultras et al.) to classify China as fascist and/or Hitlerite (or whatever, something to that effect). Yet at the same time there is no real, discernible difference between those things and standard social democracy (however defined, that again is not important right now). Are these things not in contradiction? I see no way out here. It is either one or the other but also it does not matter. Not a lot of information is transmitted there.
But where does this insistence on calling it "fascist" or similar come from then? Is it that you yourself think yourself not affected by the emotional weight of such a charge but you know other people are?
In any case this seems at best emotive arguing and frankly is a manipulative conflation of disparate things. And yes, I know Mao and to some extent Stalin have made comments to that effect.
Shouldn't we try to find a different form of discoursing? After all, there is already enough propaganda in this world.
I don't know, see it as a plea to work towards a betterment of the board (or at the least this thread, cause frankly most of this place already belongs in the trash bin of non-history).

I have also broken down this quite curious phenomenon (in a little bit of a different context but for most intents and purposes the same) in a more easily readable (if more rude) form elsewhere.
If it does not matter, why go on and on and on….
about it? Again, seems a pretty glaring contradiction.

>>2401466
Bordigabros… not like this…

>>2401466
Borzigga

>>2401482
Dengist reforms were what NEP would have been if the USSR had been allowed to take a breather and not be immediately thrown into a World War after a civil war and then never ending proxy wars after that.

>>2401747
Wrong. The nep created kulaks who starved millions. Chinese socialism liquidated all exploiting classes and eliminated poverty

I need maoist Labubu! IMMEDIATELY!

>>2393176
Where can I get one?

>>2401814
This doesnt please my ego so all the labubu shall remain as my property, my property.

>>2401568
>Marx and Lenin's view in Socialism are child-like
And I'm supposed to be the left anti-communist….

>>2401747
The NEP was ended by the Stalinists and replaced with the far more brutal and more capitalist five year plans.

https://kdwalmsley.substack.com/p/espionage-and-pentagon-takeovers?

Espionage and Pentagon takeovers of mines as China's Rare Earth Metals ban slams weapons makers


>This is from Modern War Institute. There is a nice photo here of an assembly line for warplanes, and with a headline that complains that China is weaponizing their supply of shiny rocks that those guys in the photo need to make their planes work. China’s export controls on rare earth elements were “a shot across the bow of the US defense industrial base.” Fighter jets, satellites, missiles, submarines—nobody can build them without materials made in China. 90% of the rare earth magnets come from here, and 85% of the refined rare earths, so the United States and their allies don’t have the raw materials to fight a future war. At the peak of the Cold War, over 40 years ago or so, the United States had $42 billion of reserves, now it’s under $1 billion.

>So the Defense Department has no choice now, but to get into the mining business. The Pentagon is investing directly in some companies that can do some rare earth mining, but it won’t be until 2027 at the earliest that any new production comes out of the ground, if then. And that’s just raw materials. Then they still need to be refined, and turned into magnets.


>The Pentagon bought a 15% stake in MP Materials to build some magnets. The entire world is reliant on China for rare earth metals, and MP Materials is the only mine in the United States that is operational, right now. MP produces only a handful of the materials the Pentagon needs to build stuff, but something is better than nothing, and better late than never.


File: 1753400838973.jpg (49.74 KB, 1366x768, July21-Chart.jpg)

So, how can we stop this? I don't want Chinese to dissapear

>>2402629
Hate to break it to ya, but even if China's population decline is worse than most, almost every country on this planet has a similar demographic collapse coming.

>>2402629
China is basically a developped country that is economically attractive, they just have to open the borders

>>2401695
Honestly anybody still peddling the "social democracy is the moderate wing of fascism" nonsense in 2025 should be embarrassed. The Comintern held that line for less than ten years and abandoned it as soon as it was clear it was completely moronic and self destructive.

File: 1753405523465.png (20.38 KB, 461x295, extrapolating.png)


>>2401426
Except he said that USSR was socialist. You retards are acting as if "capitalism under communist party leadership" was an actual theory used by anybody, when in fact "capitalism under control of communist party/working class" IS socialism. That's Lenin's fucking definition

>>2401747
"Dengism" and "NEP" are horrible framing of the issue

USSR's war communism was essentially the same as Mao's socialism. After war communism, NEP followed. After Mao's initial accumulation of state capital, Deng came in and expanded on Mao's policies that were already happening.

Both were continuation of their countries' previous policies. People just don't realize that unlike Russia, whcih was a hundred years behind, China was two or three hundred years behind. Development takes a lot of time. In the future we will see some African nation pulling off a catch up, and retards of the future would say shit about their NEP being too long to qualify for socialism

>>2402629
immigration will fix it. whether the prc wants it to or not.

>>2402429
Hilarious how China invests into their semiconductors and chips for "national security reasons" beforehand, stockpiles reserves of chips ahead of sanctions and tariffs to avoid shock, and USA only ever bothered with doing anything only after China cracked down on exports. Lack of (5 year) planning is apparent

File: 1753422868166.jpeg (358.24 KB, 828x515, IMG_8834.jpeg)

Yes

>>2402885
I wish they would be faster to produce high end GPUs/CPUs so I can ethically treat myself with chinese chips instead of amerikkkan

>>2401338
>Capitalists being subservient to the state means heckin fascism
<NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T USE THE STATE TO DO CLASS STRUGGLE THATS HECKIN AUTHORITARIAN YOU NEED TO POLITELY ASK THE BOURGEOISIE TO PROLETARIANIZE THEMSELVES

>>2403011
The US government is socialist (they imprisoned Sam Bankman-Fried)

File: 1753437112039.jpg (19.91 KB, 360x360, 1751644739168059.jpg)

>>2403013
>Class struggle is now not socialist because rich people get arrested for crimes sometimes in America
This place used to be so good.

>>2403015
>This place used to be so good.
Yeah, less chinese billionaire cock suckers in those times

>>2403018
Yeah those fucking social fascist soulless fucking chink bugme- uh I mean capitalist restorationists are totally un vril

>>2403020
So true, it's racist to criticize cap… I mean different incomed people, they are the true wealth creators after all

>>2403027
Wrong, China needs to get rid of capitalists. Not through class struggle, that's fascist. They need to convince the rich to give up on capitalism. It will be a utopia!

Capitalism doesnt need capitalists to be capitalism, THOUGH

>>2403050
There are no capitalists in Communist China. The exploiters, as a class, were eliminated by 1981.
https://www.marxists.org/subject/china/documents/cpc/history/01.htm
>>2403077
There is no capitalism in Communist China. By 1952, the socialist transformation of private ownership of the means of production has been completed, the system of exploitation of man by man abolished, and a socialist system established. https://www.marxists.org/subject/china/documents/cpc/8th_congress.htm

>>2403018
Reminder that the average anti-China argument on /leftypol/ in 2017 was that China was supposedly a Han supremacist state or some shit.

>>2393519
guess what. most people want a higher standard of living and don't care about your orthodoxy vs. heresy bullshit

File: 1753469517096-0.png (631.41 KB, 1200x757, k3emty4e3yef1.png)

File: 1753469517096-1.jpeg (59.56 KB, 639x800, tx7xe499qcef1.jpeg)


File: 1753472564877.png (181.81 KB, 382x278, ClipboardImage.png)

Really pushing the imagination here, aren't we?

I've finally started archiving the PRC threads. Here's the two most recent ones:
https://archive.is/PdEHX
https://archive.is/w2jbj
If anybody has any archives of old PRC threads that you'd like to contribute, that would be good. Also, I finally tried Deepseek a few days ago and it really is as smart as people here say it is.
>>2403605
>Portrays China as these Pripyat-esque ruins.
Everyday it's more and more obvious how utterly out of ideas the anti-China grifters are.

someone's having another crashout about China trading with Israel that they were afraid to post in here

>>2403650

>>2403791
Please don't link to Sharty raid threads. Just try not to feed the trolls just for once. Report the thread and hope the staff will get around to enforcing their own rules.

File: 1753484447061.jpg (20.21 KB, 200x200, ryona-foto-1569739075.jpg)

>>2403833
>hope the staff will get around to enforcing their own rules.
that made me laugh

>>2402699
Not africa

>>2403605
Is anyone interested in taking State Department money to make openly racist anti-Chinese propaganda? It'd be funny, as much as liberals going mask off with anti-immigrant sentiment when Trump won.

>>2403916
you say that like the state department would be upset by it being racist

>>2403916
How about not? Do we really need to flood the Internet with even more racist/fascist propaganda? And no, it doesn't matter if you're being "ironic" or "satirical" because at the end of the day, you're still just going to attract anti-Chinese racists.

>>2403922
It's tanking the West. Learn Chinese and hang out with Chinese glowies on XHS and Bilibili instead. Fuck anglonets.

>>2403631
was that a femboy nekonomimi dipsy
>I finally tried Deepseek a few days ago and it really is as smart as people here say it is.
other open weight model participants in the industry iterates fast yet deepseek would not release a new model until chinese holidays even its behind leading open weight models

I hate Chinese foreign policy. They care more about trade than helping allies.

>>2403605
What Imagination? Japanese gdp/capita dropped below that of Puerto Rico.

>>2404285
Geopolitics is bourgeosie politics

>>2401698
*taps sign*

File: 1753518867462.png (83.98 KB, 646x368, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2404308
AI says you are incorrect, lol. I like how even AI thinks something's wrong with GDP metric, but can't express it in words

>>2404349
The AI doesn't "think" you idiot

>>2404285
They're actually helping their allies (Chinese bourgeoise that is supplying zionazis)

>>2404361
Wrong. China's Communist commodity stimulus to occupied palestine makes life easier for poverty stricken palestinians
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-03/23/c_137058111.htm

>>2403631
Post archives as an attached .txt like in burgerpol in the furure, plz

>>2404285
False dichotomy

File: 1753523325464.png (1.55 MB, 1919x902, ClipboardImage.png)

DPP's recall campaign in Taiwan is being tallied rn, not looking good for them
Anti-recall votes are leading (同意-Recall,不同意-Anti recall)

>>2404369
>Wrong
Reported for ban evasion

File: 1753531274305.png (270.49 KB, 1280x1190, ClipboardImage.png)


>>2404308

horry shit I didnt know it was this bad in Japan

>>2404386
Calling for mass false reports to aid zionists is bannable. Please stop posting low effort sectarianism to aid sinophoboc imperialist zionist narrative

File: 1753534341515.png (2.53 MB, 2000x1280, 1732336931817-0.png)

>>2404428
Anti-China glowuyghurs on suicide watch.

China is imperialist

>>2404429
Why do you think so many people are travelling to Japan now? It's a dying society that will basically become a theme park and sex tourism destination.

>>2404458
why does ai marx look like post-arrest saddam hussein

>>2404428
Is there any up-to-date version of this? That's only until 2023. I doubt it would be different but.

>>2404478
there's some 2024 data in this link. the differences I see are Germany's increased exports and Italy's exports dropping to 1%
https://www.dw.com/en/amid-calls-for-arms-embargo-who-supplies-israels-weapons/a-72675978

>>2404477
Because of his moorish ancestry.

File: 1753537365975.jpeg (126.2 KB, 620x929, IMG_1411.jpeg)

Anyone else seen this? The message seems to be that there was a great romance to certain things in the Cultural Revolution but eventually like youth itself it had to end and was often spiteful and petty


China is currently in the lower phase communism and about to transition into higher phase communism, anyone that doesn’t agree with this is an anti-communist liberal reactionary.

>>2404493
Glad to know china sees being adult as going to the wage cage, no difference between east and west

>>2404458
some of the deng scroll stuff is pretty compelling but drawing an equivelant between marx individually investing and chinas economics is such a stretch its ridiculous

>>2404503
Why are you saying an obvious thing about china in china thread?

>>2404506
I thought it was better based on thumbnail but yes I agree the scroll is powerful.

>>2404504
It’s probably better to be in a wage cage than for your social circle to be torn asunder because you dared to give a hug to a distressed female colleague

>>2404508
Because anti-communists like to debate here whether China is communist or not. China has long moved beyond the DOTP and are now in the lower communism phase.

>>2404513
To me it seems like you dont believe in what you are posting and just baiting. This is a bad faith behaviour and should get you banned

>>2404503
It is fundemental that the party has been educated on understanding why this preliminary stage of socialism is necessary and that this is not at all the end goal but a vehicle towards full socialism.

>>2404517
>bad faith
>you are lying
>downvoot
>you should get banned!
Go back to reddit liberal. This is a communist board.

>>2404536
A true citizen and a communist work with the party and reports any suspicious activity to authorities. This is called centralism

>>2404506
>>2404509
I wrote the scroll. I admit it. It was always meant to be a mixture of humor and profound Marxist-Leninist analysis. It gets dismissed as quote mining a lot, which it does have that problem to an extent, but I think the quotes are mostly presented in context. I have considered removing the stock market quote but it is too funny to me.

>>2404498
Yeah I feel like that movie really spells out how the government feels towards boomers who used to be ideologically committed red guards

>>2404565
As an ultra i like the scroll i think it's funny, thank you for your service

File: 1753576632080.mp4 (8.34 MB, 720x1280, healthcarechina.mp4)

Socialist China provides better access to healthcare for foreigners than public healthcare in capitalist countries

>>2405075
Anti-Communists BTFO by universal Communist healthcare system

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/07/taiwans-voters-reject-anti-chinese-recall-plot.html

Taiwan's Voters Reject Anti-Chinese Recall Plot

>In January 2024 Taiwan's current President Lai Ching-te won the election against two other candidates. (Taiwan has no run off elections.)


>His Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) though, which supports Taiwan's independence from China, failed to get a majority in parliament. The opposition was thus, by controlling the budget, able to prevent Lai Ching-te from furthering a split from the Chinese homeland.


>Like many recent election winners in so called democracies Lai Ching-te set out to manipulate the system to win powers the voters had been unwilling to concede to him. He organized a recall campaign against dozens of opposition lawmakers in the hope to gain a majority in parliament.


>The New York Times reporting of it (archived) seemed to be in favor of this:


<Voters in Taiwan face a critical decision on Saturday: whether to throw out 24 opposition lawmakers they elected just last year, in an extraordinary recall campaign that could put more power in the president’s hands but add to tensions with Beijing.


<The vote threatens to flip the legislative balance in favor of President Lai Ching-te, who wants Taiwan to forge a future separate from China, against an opposition that favors closer ties with Beijing.


<This weekend, two dozen Nationalist Party lawmakers face recall votes; an additional seven will next month.

<To supporters, the “great recall” campaign reflects the vigor of Taiwan’s democracy, which emerged in the 1980s after decades of authoritarian rule under the Nationalist Party. Although a successful campaign would help Mr. Lai, many activists promoting the recalls say they are acting independently.


<“We’re building a decentralized grass-roots movement,” said Molly Kuo, an organizer of one of the recall efforts in New Taipei. “We’re witnessing a deepening of democracy.”


>A "decentralized grass-roots movement" that is running a well organized, millions of dollars campaign against parliament members of one specific party ???


<Recall of a significant number of opposition lawmakers would make it much easier for Mr. Lai to push his agenda, which includes shifting Taiwan’s economy further from China. He could also appoint his preferred judges to Taiwan’s high court.


>The recall votes were held today and the results are in. The voters did not fall for it.


>In a rather pathetic attempt to cover the loss of its campaign the DDP party is urging everyone to not see the whole affair as what it is:


<The defeat of a recall campaign against 24 KMT lawmakers should not be interpreted as the outcome of a struggle between political parties, the DPP argued Saturday.


<Results showed all 24 legislators survived the vote, with anti-recall votes surpassing pro-recall in every election district, per the Central Election Commission.


<Speaking to reporters Saturday evening, DPP Legislative Caucus Secretary-General Rosalia Wu (吳思瑤) called on the public not to rush to conclusions.

<The party’s secretary-general, Lin Yu-chang (林右昌), echoed her remarks, saying the recall votes had not been a fight between political parties, so the result should not be interpreted as a victory or a defeat for one party or another, the Liberty Times reported.


>Sure.


>As Arnaud Bertrand comments:


<[This] couldn't be more ironic coming from the same party that explicitly framed the entire campaign as exactly this: presenting themselves, the DPP, as heroically trying to "save Taiwan's democracy" from the KMT, painting them as existential threats because of their pro-China bent. But now that they lost they suddenly want to pretend it was all just a non-partisan civic exercise.


>The NYT report, written before the voting, noticed that this outcome would have consequences:


<Widespread rejection of the recalls could hint at tepid support for Mr. Lai’s party ahead of local and presidential elections, experts say.


>With his anti-China position Lai Ching-te is the U.S.' preferred candidate. As he is now likely to lose the next presidential election Taiwan should watch out for some of the usual U.S. directed manipulations.

>>2404458

>Relief the enemy of his money.


He is literally me.

>>2405154
Taiwan honestly has a better QoL on average than China, owing to its higher GDP per capita nominal AND a ridiculous GDP per capita PPP.

But generally, don't worry too much. Taiwan's semiconductor shield is also a silicon noose around the necks of the West. If the West extricated itself from the noose, Taiwan gets fucked and is ripe for peaceful reunification.

>>2404285
China is a Menshivik country. It wins by exporting FALC, not revolution. Enjoy your Neuvillette personality personal sexbot butler with hemipenis.

>>2405377
>Taiwan honestly has a better QoL on average than China, owing to its higher GDP per capita nominal AND a ridiculous GDP per capita PPP.

That must be why 10% of Taiwans total citizenry is currently living in mainland China right now.

>>2405406
Money and opportunities. Taiwan is rich with semiconductor money, for now. But of course, this monopoly is fucked between China and the US.

Their best case scenario is to arrange reunification in 10-30 years with one country two systems for 30-50 years, while importing cheap Chinese lithography machines.

>>2404428
Nice try dengoid, but plastic toys are more important to the Israeli war effort…


>>2405422
These are all imperialist propaganda outlets. You are imperialist anti-Communist cuckbrained fool. Recognize and apologize for your profound and obvious failings.


>>2405075
>140 USD for an MRI and a CT Scan on the same day, for a tourist with a passport
would cost several thousand dollars with insurance in the US and take multiple weeks and multiple appointments

>>2404478
it's hard to get data that's less than 2 years old because you don't get a year's economic data until the year after, and after you get it, another year is taken to verify that data and produce visualizations.

>>2405491
You are the one who seethes. You sink to such depths to cite monopolist media and NGOs to propagate zionist slander of Communist China

File: 1753617675448.png (1.55 MB, 1503x841, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2393817
>imagine if aliens landed…. they would see that both china and america…. have money….. and work jobs…. doesnt sound very communist…..
>i got most of the information from this video from a group called chuang… they're the REAL left in china… they wear heckin epic anonymous guy fawkes masks just like the real non-glowie left in the west…. no they don't have a wikipedia article or any information outside of their sleek corporate squarespace website that posts primarily in English for some reason….

>>2404428
>Italy 4.7%
I see Bordiga and moffin are critically supporting Adolf Netanyahoo

>>2405550
If aliens landed and saw USA and China and could compare, they'd notice that China has healthcare, jobs, housing, HSR, affordable amenities, food, and USA doesn't. And also that one country has military spread all over the world, and another doesn't

>>2405550
>those masks
KEKKKKKKKK holy shit the CIA trying to import white boy protest fashion into China is so cringe

Bye Bye Comrade Xi.

>>2406761
He's alive though

File: 1753724966547.png (136.27 KB, 359x305, ehhyw5tlw3d91.png)

>>2406761
>Bye Bye Comrade Xi.
Is the CCP collapsing again?

>>2405543
>China invests in Israel and Israel
<Slander!!!1!!!
Sorry but the productive forces must be built sweaty.

At worst, China loves Israel. At best, it’s fine with Israel and doesn’t care what’s happening to Palestinians. They have no problem with Zionism and are happy to pour money into settler colonialism to advance their capitalist interests. If China really wanted to stop the genocide, it could but it isn’t interested. The GDP number which they love can’t drop even one percent. Civilians and literal babies are being intentionally starved to death and not a single government but Yemen is willing to stand up to help them.

>>2407015
Wrong. Socialist commodities alleviates poverty stricken gazans. http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-03/23/c_137058111.htm
You want socialist commodities to stop flowing to Palestinians. You want Palestinians to suffer. You are zionist.
>>2394903
>All the article proves is that China trades with both the occupiers and gaza, not sure what your problem is
China trades with occupied Palestine to bring prosperity to Palestinians. You lie along with western media that Communist China aids the genocide but you are wrong. China's commodities bring prosperity to Palestinians. Without China's Communist commodity stimulus Palestinians would be impoverished more greatly. The zionist media routinely explain how China's trade with occupied Palestine helps Palestinians.
https://www.jfeed.com/news-israel/israel-china-haifa-port-deal

>>2407084
>Wrong.
Immediately dismissed and you're spam. Free Palestine.

>>2407015
Yeah China is like 10%+ of Israel trade and probably a greater share in terms of shipping, and they partly own haifa port like anon said >>2407084 so they have a huge leverage and they could stop the genocide basically now if they wanted.

>>2407092
You say dismissed but you are the no life spammer who keeps harassing every post within seconds with meaningless negative criticisms. You affirm zionist genocide with every post. You are a neckbearded mossad freak.

>>2407102
Every shipment from China are provisions for Palestine. All of the electronics are backdoored. Hamas used Huawei to launch Oct. 7. The slander of China must stop

>>2407104
no that's me, end yourself spammer

>>2407110
You're righr, the fact they used chinese phones to do the israeli false flag operation doesn't look too good for China

>>2407084
>Efraim Halevy, former Mossad chief, warned in 2018 that Chinese control of strategic sites like Haifa could jeopardize Israel’s security
>Dr. Harel Menashri, a Shin Bet cyber veteran, echoed this in a recent letter to the Knesset, cautioning that China could paralyze Israel’s ports in a crisis. “This isn’t just about trade. It’s about leverage,”
>CIA briefings in 2019 flagged risks of Chinese cranes, made by Shanghai Zhenhua Heavy Industries (ZPMC), harboring hidden modems for remote access.
>Economically, reliance on a Chinese firm that cut ties in 2024 during the Gaza war shows vulnerability—Beijing could halt Haifa’s operations again, crippling Israel’s trade lifeline

Your article proves that both the Mossad and CIA believe China quite literally can cripple Israel's economy with the press of a button but they just chose not to because… Uhh idk, I guess they simply LOVE trading with Israel too much.

>>2407126
>hamas does not represent palestinians
This is literally in every hasbara handbook. You defend zionists more greatly every time you post again
>>2407150
How strange that you find great value in mossad cia joint statement when they only lie. Besides, ruining occupied palestine's economy would bring greater suffering to palestinians

>>2407163
>How strange that you find great value in mossad cia joint statement
You posted the article in the first place, you stupid fuck.
>Besides, ruining occupied palestine's economy
Gaza's economy is already ruined you stupid fucking faggot. Everyone's starving and entirely dependant on """"aid"""" given by the US and Israel. China is not helping Palestinians at all, just economically benefitting themselves and their oppressors.

>>2407171
Hey china gave 1 million bucks to the UNRWA in 2024, that's 1/1400 of what they got but that's something!!

>>2407171
you fail to understand the article nor why it was posted. You adopt the joint cia mossad line in full.
>Gaza's economy is already ruined you stupid fucking faggot. China is not helping Palestinians at all, just economically benefitting themselves and their oppressors.
You are the same mossad agent who said oct 7 was an israli operation. The economy in gaza was ruined before oct 7. Palestinians in Gaza would've had no capacity to fight back without China's commodity stimulus.

>>2407183
Exactly, gazans would have nothing to fight back as Israel wouldn't exist without China

>>2407183
>you fail to understand the article
It's a Zionist piece trying to convince Israelis to replace Chinese companies operating in the Haifa port with American ones.
>why it was posted
You're an insane coper and thought this article proved that China actually gives a shit about Gaza.
>Palestinians in Gaza would've had no capacity to fight back without China's commodity stimulus.
All of Hamas's weapons and resources come from Iran and Qatar, not China.

>>2403916
China has anti immigration sentiment. Sos by your logic, Putin - a liberal is more socialist than Xi because he lets millions in every year.

>>2407189
The article demonstrates that commodity stimulus from Communist China helps Palestinians. Palestinians would be further deprived of necessities without Chinese aid. Some weapons palestinians use are laundered through iran from Communist China. Your demand to embargo palestine of chinese goods is cia induced madness

>>2407228
>bds hurts palestinians ackshually
shut it jidf

>>2407228
>The article demonstrates that commodity stimulus from Communist China helps Palestinians.
It doesn't. If anything it proves how close China and Israel's trade relationship is.
>Palestinians would be further deprived of necessities without Chinese aid.
Gaza is receiving exactly zero Chinese aid
>Some weapons palestinians use are laundered through iran from Communist China.
Who cares if at the end of the day they're still big friends with Iran and Palestine's greatest enemy?
>Your demand to embargo palestine of chinese goods is cia induced madness
Palestine would benefit more from a weak and economically crippled Israel.

>>2393082
FWIW I really appreciate the free audiobooks that guy does, and I appreciate his takedowns of ACP and American Social Democrats. I just think he's mostly wrong about China.

>>2406526
I like how one of the masks is so poorly made they forgot to sand the jagged bits off the eyeholes

>>2407228
>Some weapons palestinians use are laundered through iran from Communist China.
Source: the IDF. I don't believe it. Meanwhile there are countless photos of PRC politicians and diplomats trading and fraternizing w/ the Zionist entity. Regardless of whether the average Chinese citizen supports Palestine and the resistance, this does not manifests in the actions of PRC leaders. And no, support for the collaborationist Palestinian Authority does not count.

Endgame for China with Israel-Palestine likely comes up to a Chinese-armed Iran covered by long-range PLAAF assets threatening to bomb Israel to bits if it doesn't subvert American foreign policy for it.

It turns out selling the American government to Israeli interests was a terrible idea if the Israelis can be both bribed off and threatened.

>>2407356
>Source: the IDF. I don't believe it.
>>2407234
>It doesn't. If anything it proves how close China and Israel's trade relationship is.

Holy chat gpt copium overdose keeeeeeek

So as far as China goes, my unfiltered opinion of China today is that it isn't Socialist, but it has the contradiction of its government being founded and presently run by a Communist party, which to me means that dissident Left, anti-government resistance and capital-"R" Reformism (getting involved in Chinese politics with the explicit purpose of reforming the CPC itself) are simultaneously legitimate, and I don't know how that could be turned into a policy that is anything other than a weird, tenuous detente if I had any power to set ForPol.

>>2407395
Speaking as an Ameriburger

People will literally believe anything bad about China, I just had to spend 10 minutes showing my loved one that China doesn’t kill or disappear its disabled.

File: 1753765972360.mp4 (2.94 MB, 720x1280, F35Ladder.mp4)

>>2407395
Socialism is merely a capitalism turned to the benefit of the whole people. Claiming that China isn't socialist is pretty dumb

>b-but muh "capitalism is proliferated with every market exchange"


Capitalism in the quote is a "supporters of capitalism", capitalism in the context of "capitalist or socialist China" relates to "capitalism for the benefit of whole people"

If porkies by some miracle manage to be cucked into abandoning their class interests for following the needs of the whole people, that means these porkies are "socialist".

Like, if the Party asks you to start your own business to produce for the West and buy stuff in the West and import it that's necessary for a socialist economy, are you really a porky?

Showing Chinese factory workers episodes of Hoarders to motivate them to rebel

>>2407395
>So as far as China goes, my unfiltered opinion of China today is that it isn't Socialist, but it has the contradiction of its government being founded and presently run by a Communist party
The ultra fears the scroll

>>2407412
>Socialism is merely a capitalism turned to the benefit of the whole people. Claiming that China isn't socialist is pretty dumb
What?! This is the most craven form of shifting the goalposts I ever saw from Dengists.

No. Socialism is a form of Capitalism in crisis. Where there is Capitalism, there is exploitation, and with exploitation, there will be class conflict. China is Capitalist, as you you implicitly agree, but because they're Capitalist, that means the present Chinese state is at odds with itself, despite how vigorous the state is now. A Chinese Leftist can be dissident to the Chinese state from a Leftist standpoint and it would be legitimate–more real and legitimate than the dissident Right-Libertarians who oppose the US Federal government on the basis that it isn't Capitalist enough, in fact. On that same token, a Chinese Leftist that gets involved in the government to reform the present State to not be Capitalist anymore is also legitimate, and whatever they reform it into, it would not resemble how the Chinese state looks now.

>>2407427
He’s not calling for the overthrow of the Chinese government, if you believe in reformism in the context of an ML government you’re literally just an ML

File: 1753766898142.jpg (203.48 KB, 1024x1024, 1736262425596-0.jpg)

>>2407427
In the 1980s, Deng oversaw the biggest privatization of welfare institutions the world had ever seen in the 20th century. The Chinese healthcare system today is somehow more privatized than the US's healthcare system.

>>2407431
And his son managed to get the government to acknowledge and include protections for China’s disabled population, it’s a big country, very complicated

>>2407431
>he responded without reading the scroll

>>2407434
Dude, even if Marx and Engels felt that Socialism would gradually spring out of pre-existing conditions of a given society, they thought the conditions for full Communism were possible with fucking late 19th-century technology. How long must we wait for "material conditions" to develop until we get Socialism. This is just shameless apologetics.

>>2407436
I do think Marx was wrong here but the developments required are very minor and mostly in the areas of agriculture, housing, food service and domestic labor. Eliminate the material basis of race and patriarchy and socialism will follow.

>>2407436
>still didn't read the scroll before responding
>thinks it's just spamming "productive forces!" over and over

>>2407427
*blocks your scroll with first sentence of das*
nothing personal kid 😎

File: 1753769873866.png (4.33 MB, 2262x2673, deng_stoned.png)

>>2407436
>even if Marx and Engels felt that Socialism would gradually spring out of pre-existing conditions of a given society
not what they said:

<Will it be possible for private property to be abolished at one stroke? No, no more than existing forces of production can at one stroke be multiplied to the extent necessary for the creation of a communal society. In all probability, the proletarian revolution will transform existing society gradually and will be able to abolish private property only when the means of production are available in sufficient quantity.


<Friedrich Engels, Principles of Communism, 1847


Not "the pre-existing conditions will transform existing society gradually" but "the proletarian revolution will transform existing society gradually"

China has already had a proletarian revolution. It is transforming existing society gradually.
America has not had a proletarian revolution. It is your job to make that happen, Ameriburger.

>but I just wanna criticize the failures of the Chinese revolution!


The scroll answers:

<If private property, money, abstract value production, class society, and the state, are abolished prematurely, when the oppressive logic and power of capital still controls the entire world, China would become vulnerable to both external imperialist violence and internal reactionary sabotage (no doubt under the banner of “democracy”). The Communist Party would be immediately compromised by foreign backed elements; the country might be torn apart once again by civil war, and once again subjected to imperialist domination. The Chinese revolution, what so many millions fought, worked tirelessly, and sacrificed their lives for, will have been for nothing. Marxism is anything but rigid and dogmatic, and has always been about adapting to the ever changing objective conditions of each era, using what ever is available toward revolutionary goals. The opinion of those baizuo who think that China should have chosen the disastrous course of action described above, or at least remained underdeveloped, poor, and weak, in order to satisfy their fundamentalist interpretation of Marxism, should not be indulged. These myopic and short-sighted “left com”, “ultra-left”, or modern “Maoist” types love to denounce modern China as a betrayal of socialism, without considering that it is the failure of the Western left to do successful revolutions in their countries which made it necessary for existing socialist states to adapt to the global conditions of entrenched neo-liberal capitalism. Those who think that 1.4 billion people, who for 200 years suffered so immensely under vicious colonial rule and brutal capitalist domination, will so quickly forget what their true enemy is, don’t know much about capitalism, colonialism, or people.

<He Zhao, The Long Game and Its Contradictions, 27th October, 2018

<Taken together, these accounts tell a pretty compelling and straightforward story: a worker state led by a vanguard party has placed the productive forces developed by capitalism under human control once again, for the benefit of the many rather than the few, and so definitively begun the complex and difficult transition away from capitalism and into communism that we call socialism. Capitalists, sheltered and insular in their dealings with fellow human beings, don’t understand that they are not sympathetic characters, so they shamelessly self-victimize in the press in the hopes of winning sympathy from the masses, in a futile effort to rally the necessary fervor for military intervention. The situation looks grim for the forces of reaction. And then the Western Left bursts onto the scene with a litany of harsh recriminations, determined to build up China into a villain worthy of war: “China has billionaires.” “China still has inequality.” “China still has wage labor.” “There’s no free speech there.” “Suicide nets.” “Free Tibet.” “Xinjiang is East Turkestan.” “Liberate Hong Kong.” “Neither Washington Nor Beijing.” Their indulgence in atrocity propaganda is unparalleled, and they’ll often outdo original sources and even the most vicious reactionaries in their preening paraphrases of Chinese horror.

<Roderic Day, China Has Billionaires, 5th of April, 2021

<The pure socialists' ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.

<Michael Parenti, Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism, 1997

>but the American bourgeoisie loves China!


The scroll answers:

<China is not a free market economy. We tried. We let them into the World Trade Organization. We sent businesses over there. We made trade deals. They are a controlled top-down economy. You will never compete and win against them, unless you take back the means of production.

<Hillary Clinton, interview with Chatham House [now deleted from Youtube] (2021)

<China has found a way to use capitalism against us, and what I mean by that is the ability to attract investment into entities that are deeply linked to the state.

<Marco Rubio, interview with Face the Nation on Jan. 29, 2023

>China is just doing state Capitalism!


The scroll answers:

<socialism is merely the next step forward from state-capitalist monopoly. Or, in other words, socialism is merely state-capitalist monopoly which is made to serve the interests of the whole people and has to that extent ceased to be capitalist monopoly.

<Lenin, The Impending Catastrophe and How to Combat It, Section Titled: Can We Go Forward If We Fear To Advance Towards Socialism?, 1917

>>2407458
>will be able to abolish private property only when the means of production are available in sufficient quantity.

The means of production are clearly available in more than sufficient quantity in China.

>China has already had a proletarian revolution. It is transforming existing society gradually.

America has not had a proletarian revolution. It is your job to make that happen, Ameriburger.

The CPC is gradually restoring capitalism in China, yes. I'm not a burger, but I wonder how there can be a proletarian revolution when the working class movements have been materialy weakened by the gradual moving of the means of production to… China. Dengoids are quick to forget that the CPC has agreed to exploit the people it is supposed to represent on behalf of Western capital, helping it squeeze more profits. Not only did the CPC betray the Chinese proletariat with this policy, it has also severely kneecaped the Western proletariat at the same time. I'd like to remind you that internationalism is a major part of the working class movement, and in that regard, Dengism has been a disaster.

>when the oppressive logic and power of capital still controls the entire world, China would become vulnerable to both external imperialist violence and internal reactionary sabotage (no doubt under the banner of “democracy”). The Communist Party would be immediately compromised by foreign backed elements; the country might be torn apart once again by civil war, and once again subjected to imperialist domination. The Chinese revolution, what so many millions fought, worked tirelessly, and sacrificed their lives for, will have been for nothing.


China does absolutely nothing to foster revolutionary movements across the world. Be they in the Philipines, India, or hell, even Palestine, China does absolutely nothing, and in the worse cases, which are the majority, directly collaborates with local bourgeoisie to find openings for its commodities. China is thereby giving capitalism a lifeline to survive.

>it is the failure of the Western left to do successful revolutions in their countries which made it necessary for existing socialist states to adapt to the global conditions of entrenched neo-liberal capitalism.


See my reply above.

>The situation looks grim for the forces of reaction. And then the Western Left bursts onto the scene with a litany of harsh recriminations, determined to build up China into a villain worthy of war: “China has billionaires.” “China still has inequality.” “China still has wage labor.” “There’s no free speech there.” “Suicide nets.” “Free Tibet.” “Xinjiang is East Turkestan.” “Liberate Hong Kong.” “Neither Washington Nor Beijing.” Their indulgence in atrocity propaganda is unparalleled, and they’ll often outdo original sources and even the most vicious reactionaries in their preening paraphrases of Chinese horror.


I don't care about liberal points, and "reactionary forces" certainly don't care about the first issues raised, but I do. How the fuck do you get billionaires, without a parasitic class taking the surplus value of the labor of the working class? How does that help China work toward socialism? Why is the working class still exploited? Aren't they in power? Do you seriously think they would agree to spend 60 hours a week in a privately owned factory if they had any amount of power?

>They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted


The USSR didn't need 40 years of NEP to at least implement baby steps toward socialism. The PRC has only been working backwards.

>but the American bourgeoisie loves China!


They did, until national capital in China became strong enough to become a challenger on its own. The Americans don't hate China because it is threatening the world system of capitalism (it's really not), they hate it because it has become a competitor.

>socialism is merely the next step forward from state-capitalist monopoly.


There is no state-capitalist monopoly in China anymore, the CPC (under Xi no less) made sure of it.

>>2407104
Spam your garbage somewhere else, zionazi

>>2407501
>The means of production are clearly available in more than sufficient quantity in China.
If this were true and China were capitalist with capitalist superstructure, then China would have Communist revolution right now. But the proletarians are happy with their proletarian dictatorship. Therefore you have rendered your entire wrong with your first proposition.
>The CPC is gradually restoring capitalism in China, yes. I'm not a burger, but I wonder how there can be a proletarian revolution when the working class movements have been materialy weakened by the gradual moving of the means of production to… China. Dengoids are quick to forget that the CPC has agreed to exploit the people it is supposed to represent on behalf of Western capital, helping it squeeze more profits. Not only did the CPC betray the Chinese proletariat with this policy, it has also severely kneecaped the Western proletariat at the same time. I'd like to remind you that internationalism is a major part of the working class movement, and in that regard, Dengism has been a disaster.
Your retarded assertions have no material basis. Deng's brilliant leadership eliminated all poverty and exploiters.
>I don't care about liberal points, and "reactionary forces" certainly don't care about the first issues raised, but I do. How the fuck do you get billionaires, without a parasitic class taking the surplus value of the labor of the working class? How does that help China work toward socialism? Why is the working class still exploited? Aren't they in power? Do you seriously think they would agree to spend 60 hours a week in a privately owned factory if they had any amount of power?
"Billionaire" is a social relation specific to monopoly capitalism. There are no billionaires in Communist China. Article 36 The State shall practise a working hour system wherein labourers shall work for no more than eight hours a day and no more than 44 hours a week on the average. Article 41 The employer can prolong work hours due to needs of production or businesses after consultation with its trade union and labourers. The work hours to be prolonged, in general, shall be no longer than one hour a day, or no more than three hours a day if such prolonging is called for due to special reasons and under the condition that the physical health of labourers is guaranteed. The work time to be prolonged shall not exceed, however, 36 hours a month. In the most extreme case, the maximum working week in Communist China is 52 average hours a week.


Everything you say is lie and slander

Every day I wonder if posters like >>2407510 and "wrong, jack ma is working class" are doing some sort of elaborate baiting or if it's psychiatric level delusion. I can't call it…

>>2407511
Your lack of conviction demonstrates where you really stand. You are the zionists who slander Communist China. You want to spread your anti-Communist delusions to destroy Communism. Jack Ma is a proletarian manager of vast means of socialist circulation.

>>2407511
they're the same guy, the same very very stupid guy, but the same guy

>>2407511
I was starting to research some data to reply to him honestly, and I was going to tell you that it takes a lot of self-convincing to unironically say that Dengism is working toward communism, then I saw this >>2407513 and realized that I'm just wasting my time.

>>2407516
You can call me stupid until the end of time but it will never change the fact that i am more politically correct than you

>>2407517
You realized you were wrong and the statistics disprove your assertion. Your admission of defeat is two faced. Just admit your failings in full

>>2407516
I also thought that too, but it looks like schizos on this website are "unique", like sandinista anon.

File: 1753780895627.png (58.1 KB, 906x512, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2407519
Unlike you I'm actually employed and I post during downtime at my job, so I'm just going to post this to remind you that just because whatever the article of constitution says about working hours in China, it's not what reality is. The Chinese proletariat is working more and more, and is being squeezed more and more to give more profit to the Chinese bourgeoisie. Jack Ma himself is a bourgeois, privately owning his company, in other words, his means of production.

>>2407428
>China is Capitalist, as you you implicitly agree

I didn't. First, difference between context, second, ruling class matters more than specific forms of economic organization. For an example, gulags and forced labor there were more progressive than present day American prison-industrial complex

China isn't restoring capitalism because it was never socialist. It's not state capitalist either. There's a zillion small businesses there like anywhere else.

Socialism in one country doesn't make sense. Marx and Engels emphasized socialism required global revolution and for good reason.

>…and furthermore, because only with this universal development of productive forces is a universal intercourse between men established, which produces in all nations simultaneously the phenomenon of the “propertyless” mass (universal competition), makes each nation dependent on the revolutions of the others, and finally has put world-historical, empirically universal individuals in place of local ones. Without this, (1) communism could only exist as a local event; (2) the forces of intercourse themselves could not have developed as universal, hence intolerable powers: they would have remained home-bred conditions surrounded by superstition; and (3) each extension of intercourse would abolish local communism. Empirically, communism is only possible as the act of the dominant peoples “all at once” and simultaneously, which presupposes the universal development of productive forces and the world intercourse bound up with communism.


>Moreover, the mass of propertyless workers – the utterly

precarious position of labour – power on a mass scale cut off from capital or from even a limited satisfaction and, therefore, no longer merely temporarily deprived of work itself as a secure source of life– presupposes the world market through competition. The proletariat can thus only exist world-historically, just as communism, its activity, can only have a "world-historical" existence. World-historical existence of individuals means existence of individuals which is directly linked up with world history.


- German Ideology, Chapter 1

>Will it be possible for this revolution to take place in one country alone?


>No. By creating the world market, big industry has already brought all the peoples of the Earth, and especially the civilized peoples, into such close relation with one another that none is independent of what happens to the others.


>Further, it has co-ordinated the social development of the civilized countries to such an extent that, in all of them, bourgeoisie and proletariat have become the decisive classes, and the struggle between them the great struggle of the day. It follows that the communist revolution will not merely be a national phenomenon but must take place simultaneously in all civilized countries – that is to say, at least in England, America, France, and Germany.


>It will develop in each of these countries more or less rapidly, according as one country or the other has a more developed industry, greater wealth, a more significant mass of productive forces. Hence, it will go slowest and will meet most obstacles in Germany, most rapidly and with the fewest difficulties in England. It will have a powerful impact on the other countries of the world, and will radically alter the course of development which they have followed up to now, while greatly stepping up its pace.


>It is a universal revolution and will, accordingly, have a universal range.


- Principles of Communism

If you like Chinese capitalism more than American capitalism, fair enough. Lots of people like the north European welfare states.

i met a chinese lady who didn't know about the cultural revolution. it was a confusing conversation. is it a different word than in english or something?

>>2407576
Yes the English names of the events never match up with the Chinese names. For example Tiananmen Square is the "June 4th Incident" in Chinese instead.

>>2407587
i prefer that, it sounds like a MGS level. What do they call the cultural revolution then? it was awkward.

>>2407529
>Communism is when zero weekly working hours.
Low working hours and mass systemic general idleness is specific to the capitalist mode of production, with the most parasitic monopolist capitalist States the most idle. China does not suffer from this. You disprove your assertion that China is capitalist.

>>2407590
They call it the Great Proletarian Cultural revolution or the cultural revolution. The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution was not akward, but a resounding success.

>>2407592
<Communism is when zero weekly working hours.
Nice strawman.
>Low working hours and mass systemic general idleness is specific to the capitalist mode of production, with the most parasitic monopolist capitalist States the most idle.
Idealistic bullshit. The development of capitalism coincided with the skyrocketing of work hours. These decreased as the work needed to produce goods was decreased thanks to technological advancements. Communism, which means further development of the means of production, is synonymous with reduced work load. I'm not antiwork, far from it, but jerking off to increased working hours is anticommunist.
Also, if more work hours = more communist, than India and the BJP are more true to Marxism than China.

>>2407618
>Communism, which means further development of the means of production, is synonymous with reduced work load.
The UK has 24% less annual labor hours per capita than china so the UK is 24% more Communist.

>>2407618
Actually work hours decreased because there were too many workers and not enough job for everybody. The less working hours isnt a victory of the proletariat and is not a concession of bourgeosie

>>2407672
China has jobs. UK doesnt have jobs

>>2407575
this, also culturally the Chinese are one of the most capitalist people ever

>>2407575
That is retarded because anyone who has ever spoken with an American knows that communism can never take place there.
Marx said many smart things, but his western supremacism is legitimately retarded, hence why he got superseded by Lenin.
He kept praising people who hated him the most, now literally almost every non-western nation remembers Marx fondly and west hates him and most westerners would kill him if they could time travel.
This is why Lenin and Stalin were the real giants of Socialism.

>>2407742
Exactly. Those numbers only account for people who work. If we account for the masses of british vagrants then the idleness differential of the british is more vast so the Uk is way more Communist than China, far more than your metric of average labor hours shows.

>>2407963
British and Chinese unemployment rates are similar, wtf are you talking about.
I only wanted to demonstrate how counting work hours means nothing to determining if a country is capitalist. Yet you dengoids act like it's a great mesure of anything.
Incredible. I don't understand why Turd Worldists don't like you, your understanding of Marxism is a poor as theirs.

How can we fix China's addiction? Should we wage a war on manufacturing?

>>2408412
OHh, i'm crafting, i'm crafting good, i'm crafting

>>2407379
Only one coping here is you. China could end the genocide today and deal huge blow to American influence in the middle east simply by halting operations in the Haifa port but they don't because they like shekels too much.

>>2407811
Stating that for communism to succeed, the revolution has to go global is not Western supremacism. Lenin agreed on the necessity of international cooperation, even Stalin did in his early writings until he and his Yes Men ass-kissers unilaterally agreed that the Soviet Union had already reached Socialism and executed anyone who disagreed.

>>2408062
But you said china is not communist because high working hours. Communist China's labor force participation rate is nearly six hundred basis points higher than the UK. That is far from similar.

>>2408436
China would be complicit in the genocide if they embargoed Palestine of Chinese Communist commodity aid

>>2408436
>China could end the genocide today
Summarize how.

>>2408479
>Embargo Israel and countries that trade with them
>Cease operations in the port of Haifa and other Chinese infrastructure in Israel (they have literal remote kill switches)
>Pull some favors from MENA countries and block Israel's access to the Mediterranean
>Co-ordinate with the Houthis to block Israel's access to the Suez Canal
>Co-ordinate military action and bombing campaigns with Iran to key Zionist locations and infrastructure
Israel wouldn't last a month in these conditions.

>>2408513
>>Embargo Israel and countries that trade with them
Even just the free trade agreements are a lot of countries, including their allies. I don't think China jeopardizing BRICS is on the table, even if they theoretically could choose to. Palestine isn't more important to them than their carefully-gained geopolitical position.
>Co-ordinate with the Houthis to block Israel's access to the Suez Canal
<hey iran i know youre a competing world power and everything but can we borrow your militia for a minute?

>>2408523
All of this is theoretically possible and could collapse Pissrael, but as you said, it hurts China's national and economic interests.
If not even the Soviet Union did anything to stop the Nazis from mass murdering Jews and communists until they were attacked directly by Hitler, much less will Dengoid China do anything in their power to stop the genocide of Palestinians. It greatly hurts me to say it but it looks like their fate is already set in stone but no one will EVER convince me that BRICS getting a slightly bigger GDP was worth the lives of 2 million people from Gaza.

>>2407395
>it isn't Socialist
Which of the 40 definitions of socialism are you applying?
Because if you come at us with the 'Socialism is an economy with socialist MoP' then no-one is claiming it was, especially not the CPC.
Well, one schizo here did claim that but we all laugh at them.

>>2408436
>China could end the genocide today
<Genocide stops when no more labubu

>>2408532
>but no one will EVER convince me that BRICS getting a slightly bigger GDP was worth the lives of 2 million people from Gaza.
On the other hand, I think that the sooner the US empire is toppled, the more lives will be saved from a similar fate. Would it be worth allowing the US empire five or ten more years of suffering, death and devastation in exchange for 2 million people? It's not an easy choice, but there's no clean path forwards.
Moral purity is impossible in this horrible situation, the liberals who tried just end up retaining the status quo, too scared of the cost of change, tolerating the cost of doing nothing.

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>>2393253
Are you stupid or pretending

>>2408513
>Embargo Israel and countries that trade with them
Lol so China embargoing the entire fucking world is step 1 of your master plan? Retarded.

Fuck America, fuck Israel, fuck China, fuck russian fuck ukraine. Don't fuck palestine insofar as they are an oppressed nation resisting imperialism (anti-capitalist/bouregois in nature) and colonial genocide and of course total zionist death and you as well yankkkee settler subhumans

fuck every single bourgeois motherfucker no matter how "justified" or "sympathetic" or "hands are tied" "relatively progressive" don't care. not my problem. go fuck yourself and fight each other and cry about it. fuck all of you delusional bourgeois soyworld opinooon havers. I am not the fucking referee of soyworld history. I am a proletarian and my politics and pov are proletarian

>>2408664
>your master plan
you are a fucking delusional and unserious person that is basing your politics on infotainment consumption of political spectacle that lacks revolutionary proletarian character and does not break with the current order of class society

inb4
>your proletarian politics are also infotainment political spectacle consumption and this is a mongolian basket weaving forum
insofar as that is true, as a class conscious proletarian keen on following a revolutionary orientation based in the supremacy of my class as a "historical" vehicle for overcoming class relations, I reject all non-revolutionary-proletarian politics

so yeah shitposting and talking shit with fellow idiots on leftypol *as a proletarian* yeah I am going to do that. keeping in mind my place as a proletarian and ability to look past the existing problems and contradictions of the current class based political order
yes I will mock anyone falling for fakeandgay ass political and social dilemas and end up focusing their time and energy carrying water for bourgeois actors (without an anti-bourgeois character, i.e. anti-imperialist) like look if china or whatever is so much more just and reasonable, they don't need your support as a communist/member of the small (under class society) and most politically conscious vanguard segment of the working class, anyways

>>2408653
Economic sanctions and blockades deeply hurt Rhodesia and South Africa. China could do this to Israel but they don't have the intention of doing so because ceasing to trade with Zionists is against their interests.
>>2408660
Not sure I follow your post. Letting the genocide continue or waiting 10 more years to do something does not make the US weaker, if anything toppling Israel now would be a HUGE blow to the American empire and its interests in the Middle East and it also saves the lives of whatever remains of the 2 million people who lived in Gaza. Like, you don't have to chose one of the other in this scenario.
>>2408664
Not the entire world, just Israel and its closest allies and trading partners. You Chinaboos love to post that one meme where Deng brilliantly tricks the West into de-industrializing and moving all manufacturing to China. Well, what good is this advantageous position regarding trade and industrial power if they're not willing to use it as leverage and a bargaining chip when shit gets real?

I was annoyed at the guy going like "China is a worker's paradise". But now, at last I truly see. I was looking at it in a "trying to be reasonable" lens. But as shown again and again, there is simply no arguing with these people.
What is happening here is that he is your opposite number complete with constant, constant repetition of basic (and wrong) points. I won't bother to ask why you do it.
(speaking of course about the unreal socialists, ultras etc., whatever silly name they wear). He is your foil, as he simply takes the opposite position as you.
Who else will be your opposite number? Me? Please, I am way beyond you, there is no productive discussion to be had.
Which I suspect is the reason I frequent this place anyway, at this stage. It's "fun" to be a big fish in a small pond. And how might this be achieved? by simply doing a modicum of actual reading. Yes, it is that easy. I am in the top percentile in terms of marxist theory in this wasteland. And I say that with no vanity and take no real pleasure in it. It is sad but true.
Beyond that, I can have more productive as well as illuminating discussion on the nearest supermarket parking lot.

To recap: He is your opposite number. He is only here cause you are.
You made this. You try to have your cake and eat it too, as the saying goes.
Now eat your cake.

>>2408664
It is the case that there are different rules for different people. You have to be a really, really ignorant westerner to not fucking know this simple fact. So no, China cannot unilaterally sanction whatever it pleases. Look up unilateral coercive measure, they are illegal (again, except for US and friends, just in case you need a reminder of the first sentence of this paragraph).

Remember as well
along with that guy, I will also be here (in some capacity, I will reduce consumption of this trash to lower levels)
Until finally the lights go out.
Thank you for your attention.


China houses nick land though. And nick land is transgender transhumanist accelerationist lemurian time war chaos magic nomad war machine guy. And transwomen love nick land. Could hrt have saved her?

>blablabla i'm so smart compared to you ultras
great, call me when china stops bankrolling israel's genocide so they can do an immense AES accumulation of treats

>Still doesn't know the first thing about how international trade works
Damn, yeah, deeply cutting sarcasm there
I hope for your sake you are not an adult
Trade is not support but it is useless to try and litigate it here of all places
If you know you know.

>>2408754
>>2408758
Both of you are transhumanists

>>2408754
wrong. China's Communist commodity stimulus to Palestine helps Palestinians fight the zionist genocide https://english.news.cn/20250623/ab65491280024115911b1ae4cc7d5c73/c.html Without this help things would actually be worse for palestinians

File: 1753871724118.jpg (915.88 KB, 1920x1080, evo.jpg)

Case in point right there, innit
>>2408759
I am not the same species as you, that much is true. Outside of trivial biology.

>>2408761
Called it

Can anyone show me where Hamas demands the cessation of Chinese Communist commodity stimulus from entering occupied Palestine? As if Palestinians want to be more impoverished by having an ally blockade them
>but gaza is blockaded
Commodities are periodically smuggled into Gaza. Chinese goods make life easier for Palestinians in poverty-stricken Gaza. Palestinians utilize Chinese Commodity stimulus in west bank and throughout the rest of occupied Palestine. This commodity aid helps Palestinians in other occupied territory make life easier and attain greater capacity to resist like Gaza.

>>2408746
I have zero respect for people who claim China blockading Israel would do anything. Israel trades with literally the entire world. These morons don't even understand that socialist countries like VIETNAM, LAOS, and CUBA also trade with Israel. So is China supposed to fucking commit economic suicide by walling itself off from the entire world including other socialist countries to somehow do more damage to Israel than it would inflict on itself? Ask North Korea how effective their "economic blockade" of all countries that trade with Israel is. Seems not be working too well.
>blah blah blah he is your mirror and foil
Shut the fuck up it's glownonymous spamming his shitposts he's been samefagging and arguing against himself on these topics for years now every time he gets debunked he just switches sides and pretends to be dengist/antidengist because he has no stake in the issue. I just drop in occasionally to truthnuke him to stop him from getting an ego.

Based Chinese Netizens. Based chinese internet law.

>>2409001
First, fair enough. If he is playing both sides (I am unaware of anything in this case but I try not to pay it any attention) all the more reason to sanction him (throw out). Second, I would simply say curtail the worst excesses of ultras etc as well (this is not communism, that is not, your mom is not communism, on and on).
I personally take as much heed of him as I do of the other noise-makers, which are plenty. Talk loud, say nothing. I was just putting it in perspective.

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yo they put a labubu on this uyghas grave

>GDP per capita

>1995

>Japan
$45k
>China
$500

>2025

>Japan
$35k
>China
$30k

wtf happened?

>>2409001
>Shut the fuck up it's glownonymous spamming his shitposts he's been samefagging and arguing against himself on these topics for years now every time he gets debunked he just switches sides and pretends to be dengist/antidengist because he has no stake in the issue. I just drop in occasionally to truthnuke him to stop him from getting an ego.
You dont drop shit. You recognize my correct line but parrot in the worst way. So bad its actually wrong. China shares commodities with occupied palestine to help palestinians in furtherance of peaceful and prosperous future for mankind, not their own interest. You delude yourself by saying i am inconsistent but you parrot me as you cry paragraphs. I've never been anti-dengist. I am ultra dengist

>>2409682
china moment

>>2408782
>Can anyone show me where Hamas demands the cessation of Chinese Communist commodity stimulus from entering occupied Palestine?
This is getting really embarrassing man. Not only has Hamas called for sanctions against Israel, the single most consistent and effective campaign of resistance in this conflict has been Anarallah's interdiction of Israeli trade. So what, is it your position that this is a bad thing and the Houthis should start letting Israeli ships through? Just admit that China's position on Israel is shitty instead of resorting to this nonsense.
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/hamas-hails-arab-summit--calls-for-sanctions-on--israel

Red Guard Labubu when?

>>2409750
That demand was levied against the zionist arab league(that now calls on Hamas to disband), not china. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/07/30/middleeast/arab-league-hamas-gaza-israel-intl
You are profoundly stupid. China's Communist commodity aid will not stop. Show me where Hamas says China must stop trading with Palestine. You cannot. Show me where Houthis sink Chinese ships that bring necessities to Palestine. You cannot. Your position is is shitty and your demand to halt Chinese commodities means to starve palestinians. You are a zionist. Explain how Palestinians being cut off from necessities from China helps them when Chinese commodities alleviate poverty stricken Palestinians in occupied Palestine.

>>2409791
>That demand was levied against the zionist arab league(that now calls on Hamas to disband), not china.
<The Palestinian resistance movement Hamas called on the Arab League and the broader international community to urgently intervene to halt the ongoing genocide in the Gaza Strip and to impose sanctions on the fascist Israeli occupation.

>>2409687
Japan's massive boom and the rising threat of independence made Western porkies panic. America had been waging trade war with Japan since the 1960s, but the 1985 Plaza accord plunged the dollar against the yen by 50% and helped end the boom and kickstart stagnation. Now America is basically trying the same thing on China

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>>2409682
patrice labubu

>>2407501
>The means of production are clearly available in more than sufficient quantity in China.
it's not about whether China by itself has means of production in sufficient quantity, but about whether the world does. China is still working on abolishing the distinction between town and country for example. But it's also about China as an island of socialism in a sea of capitalism.

Read Marx:
Marx in Wage Labor and Capital Ch 6:
>An appreciable rise in wages presupposes a rapid growth of productive capital. Rapid growth of productive capital calls forth just as rapid a growth of wealth, of luxury, of social needs and social pleasures. Therefore, although the pleasures of the worker have increased, the social gratification which they afford has fallen in comparison with the increased pleasures of the capitalist, which are inaccessible to the worker, in comparison with the stage of development of society in general. Our wants and pleasures have their origin in society; we therefore measure them in relation to society; we do not measure them in relation to the objects which serve for their gratification.

So today a place like Niger is more absolutely more developed than England was in the 1850s, but it is still relatively less developed than England today. The proletarian revolution will gradually transform this state of affairs, not instantly change it.

>>2409796
China functionally sanctions the fascist occupation by supplying affordable essential goods to palestinians.

Sorry, Palestine WILL enjoy cheap, efficient, well made products.

>>2409845
Trading with Israel and helping sustain its economy isn't "providing goods to Palestinians" you absolute retard. They aren't trading with Gaza, they're trading with Israel who has Gaza under a blockade. It's helping Israel slaughter them by providing them with lucrative commerce, tax revenue, GDP growth, etc. That's why Ansarallah has been trying to disrupt shipping, that's why Hamas called for sanctions against Israel. They do these things because starving the Israeli economy of foreign commerce would cripple their war effort. You're embarrassing yourself with this nonsense.

Guys have you considered that Sweden trading with the Nazis right up until 1945 was actually a good thing because Swedish goods could have been used by prisoners in death camps? If you think that Sweden should have stopped trading with Nazi Germany then actually you're the real Nazi.

>>2409889
Sweden provided tungsten for German tank rounds, coal & iron for Krupp and allowed its railways to be used by the Wehrmacht, so the genocide on Leningrad was possible.

China sends cheap plastic toys and clothing to Israel, while smuggling Norinco AKs, AT RPG rounds, radios, body armor and rocket pipes to Hamas.
Not the same tbh.

>>2409893
>China sends cheap plastic toys and clothing to Israel
<Since the 2010s, China and Israel enhanced bilateral economic ties with China connecting both Chinese and Israeli businessmen and investors to invest in each other's economies respectively. Chinese economic cooperation with Israel has seen substantial Chinese investment of more than US$15 billion in the Israeli economy, spawning seed capital in Israeli startup companies, as well as the acquisition of Israeli companies by major Chinese corporations that incorporate Israel's know how to help invigorate the development of the modern Chinese economy more efficiently. China ranked second in 2015 after the United States on collaboration with Israeli high-tech firms that are backed by Israel's Office of the Chief Scientist.[58] Major Chinese firms such as Fosun, ChemChina, Brightfood, Horizons Ventures and China Everbright have invested significant amounts of financial capital and resources across numerous Israeli industries.[59]
<Investment from China in Israeli technology reached an aggregate of $15 billion from 2011 to 2017 with the surplus of Chinese investment capital finding its way through Israel's high technology sector, including agriculture, pharmaceutical, medical devices, artificial intelligence and autonomous driving.[60]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Israel_relations
>while smuggling Norinco AKs, AT RPG rounds, radios, body armor and rocket pipes to Hama
<In March 2025, the British Parliament’s report on the events of October 7 was published, examining the weaponry used during the attacks on that day. The report indicates that some of the weapons used were Chinese-made, including AK-47 rifles, multi-purpose machine guns, and anti-tank weapons designed for operation by small teams. However, the report notes that these weapons had come from war-torn countries such as Libya and Iraq, which had previously purchased Chinese weapons, and there is no indication of direct supply chains from China to the Gaza Strip.
https://www.inss.org.il/social_media/how-did-chinese-weapons-reach-hamas/

>>2409889
Swedish neutrality allowed the Danish jews to be saved in near totality
>>2409902
>Since the 2010s, China and Israel enhanced bilateral economic ties with China connecting both Chinese and Israeli businessmen and investors to invest in each other's economies respectively.
This is the same logic that allows liberals to pretend that Nazi Germany and the USSR were ACTUALLY on the same side all along and that if ONLY the USSR had just cut the Germans off MAYBE Poland and France could've been saved.

>>2409917
"And then the Western Left bursts onto the scene with a litany of harsh recriminations, determined to build up China into a villain worthy of war […] Their indulgence in atrocity propaganda is unparalleled, and they’ll often outdo original sources and even the most vicious reactionaries in their preening paraphrases of Chinese horror." -Roderic Day

>>2409917
>Swedish neutrality allowed the Danish jews to be saved in near totality
So you think it's good that Sweden continued to trade with the Nazis throughout the war?
>This is the same logic that allows liberals to pretend that Nazi Germany and the USSR were ACTUALLY on the same side all along
I'm not saying that China and Israel are on the same side, but it's an objective fact that Chinese trade is good for the Israeli economy and there is no good reason why it should continue. Thus far nobody has been able to give one, just a lot of downplaying and absurd statements like how trading with Israel is somehow good for Gaza. Certainly the Palestinians know this is not the case which is why they constantly car for embargoes on Israel.
>>2409921
Oh fuck off. Im not denouncing China as a whole. They do far more good than harm in the world, but this is something they can and should be criticized for.

File: 1753934122594-0.jpg (110.09 KB, 1280x640, norinco m4s.jpg)

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>>2409902
https://www.businessinsider.com/hamas-has-a-chinese-weapons-arsenal-in-gaza-says-the-idf
>"This is top-grade weaponry and communications technology, stuff that Hamas didn't have before, with very sophisticated explosives which have never been found before and especially on such a large scale," an Israeli intelligence source told The Telegraph.
<Weapons such as QBZ assault rifles and QLZ87 automatic grenade launchers were among the uncovered haul, signs of bolstered Hamas firepower
>The IDF warned that this arsenal is complemented by intelligence and communications equipment capable of operating within the complex tunnel system used by Hamas for surprise attacks on Israeli troops.

Libya & Syria didn't use the QBZ, QLZ, Norinco M4s & AKs, pic related

File: 1753934243376-0.jpg (74.72 KB, 1000x667, norinco ak hamas.jpg)

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>>2409938
That doesn't mean China supplied them directly as a matter of policy. China exports military equipment globally so there's plenty of opportunity for resale. If there was even the slightest basis to conclude that China was arming Hamas don't you think Western governments would be screaming bloody murder about it? Instead the UK came to the exact opposite conclusion.

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Or all those ATGMS and shiny new RPG warheads, but thats more of a Juche win

>>2409964
They make the RPG ammo themselves since they're pretty simple actually.

File: 1753935750668.jpg (78.15 KB, 920x637, hamas aks 2010.jpg)

>>2409956
They are already screaming bloody murder, but they can't sanction China like they did Russia as their whole trade depends on China, coming back to China trading with Israel, which is of noones suprise because China is the world's largest exporter. Go somewhere in Africa or South America and you will see Chinese EVs and phones.

About those rifles, they are completely new, compare that to the Hamas loadout in the early 2010s which was truly old hand-me-downs from Syria or Libya. Think about all the ammo Hamas used up since Oct. 7, we are talking about tens of millions of rounds of 7.62x39mm, only China & Russia mass produce that ancient cartridge in 2025, besides some smaller civilian suppliers in Switzerland or the US for yurope or burger AK fans.

File: 1753936095969-2.png (833.21 KB, 1200x675, PG-7VR.png)

>>2409965
Kek, if they were self-made then why bother with using standardized markings, painting them and coloring the propelling charge in the same color? They are modified, at most, by adding some big ass mortar round.

>>2409970
>They are already screaming bloody murder
Where? Which Western governments have accused China of deliberately arming Hamas? Has Israel accused them of this?
>About those rifles, they are completely new
Again, this doesn't mean China is deliberately arming them. Iran or private arms dealers can easily buy Chinese weapons and smuggle them to Gaza. Iraq and Libya are both unstable war zones crawling with non-state militias who I'm sure have plenty of Chinese weapons themselves.
>only China & Russia mass produce that ancient cartridge in 2025
I seriously doubt that considering its probably the most popular rifle cartridge in the world and dozens of countries still use it. Plus there are huge amounts of it sitting in storage. Even if that's true however, it still doesn't mean that China is deliberately arming Hamas, because again, intermediaries are a thing.
>>2409978
I don't doubt that they also have imported rockets, but they've published videos of them making them themselves.

>>2409965
teach me senpai……… for reasons

>>2409922
>Oh fuck off. Im not denouncing China as a whole. They do far more good than harm in the world, but
vidrel
>this is something they can and should be criticized for.
what is your nationality again?

>>2410005
So what, your actual position is that they should never be criticized for anything ever?

fuck the bourgeois nation state of china. may they squirm and buckle under the immense pressure they face for every mistake they make and every contradiction they must face

>you are supporting america which is worse

1.howso?
2.don't care, didn't ask, not my problem as a communist, go fuck yourself

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>>2410015
nationality status?

>>2410005
Now I truly understand the meaning of the word 'simple-minded'.

Islamic separatists will blow up belt 'n road in 3 hours.

>>2410097
Truly the mark of a strong position is having to resort to posting nonsense like that.

File: 1753948795681.png (44.75 KB, 1077x297, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2410097
Are the nuclear reactors and vehicles sent to Israel part of the Chinese Communist commodity aid to Palestine?
>>2409917
>This is the same logic that allows liberals to pretend that Nazi Germany and the USSR were ACTUALLY on the same side all along and that if ONLY the USSR had just cut the Germans off MAYBE Poland and France could've been saved.
I'm not going to argue that France and Poland could have been saved, but the Soviet Union definitely helped the Germany army by supplying it with grain, oil and various metals, and is probably one of the bigger stains on the legacy of the USSR.

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>>2410126
I wonder what Israel does with its nuclear research reactors…

>>2410148
Anon there's a huge difference between simply using third parties as logistical tools to get weapons to their intended recipient, and selling to third parties without any knowledge or intention of where they go afterwards. Iran arms Hamas in the sense that they procure arms and set up logistical networks for the express purpose of getting those weapons into Gaza. They probably use intermediaries to get them there, but the point is they are deliberately working to make sure Hamas has weapons. Is there any indication at all that China is doing the same thing?

>>2410146
>>2410126
Also, how does this help Palestine?

>>2410151
I think that's likely insofar as Iran buys Chinese weapons and then gives them to Hamas. However that's just China selling weapons to Iran and then not caring where they end up after, which is different than deliberately working to make sure Hamas gets them. If China wasn't selling to Iran then Iran would get them elsewhere, and if Iran wasn't funneling them to Hamas then no Chinese weapons would end up in Gaza.

>>2410154
Is the US fighting against imperialism if, say, weapons sent to Ukraine eventually find themselves on the black market and are bought by anti-imperialist armed groups?

>>2410155
The situation with Iran is not the same is it? You can have a pretty clear and direct understanding where Iran's arms will be used and why because of their geopolitical position. That's different than your hypothetical scenario about imaginary anti imperialist orgs getting guns from le black market

>>2410154
>So why do you insist on their non-support?
Because they aren't supporting them, Iran is. China doesnt care where these weapons end up because they dont care about the outcome of the conflict. China also sells weapons to pro-Zionist forces, like when they were selling military drones to the UAE that were being used in Yemen. China's problem is that they don't take sides, they sell and deal with all comers, which can sometimes provide relief to progressive forces but its hard to say it has a net positive impact when they provide the same services to reactionary ones. Neutrality isn't support.

All proxy wars in the cold war didn't happen because no party delivered weapons with an official WeaponDeliveryPlane™.

Theres a secret dengist factory under gaza that produces all those weapons.

>>2410216
Disprove it.
Protip:You can't
I am not saying (NB) that it is this way or the other way.
I am saying speculating is unproductive and I suspect some not too clean motives (won't somebody think of the palestinian children, China throwing itself against the hegemon, no holds barred would be a whole different level of escalation, but that is of course a whole different can of worms) with most of these statements.

What has iran officially requested china do, that china isn't doing?
What has palestine officially requested china do, that china isn't doing?

>>2410255
>What has iran officially requested china do, that china isn't doing?
iran for some reason doesn't like asking for help
>What has palestine officially requested china do, that china isn't doing?
nothing really, China does what it can. though Id say the dprk has more maneuverability and freedom to roll up their sleeves and get to work, most of the tunnels in gaza were built with their expertise

>>2410164
UAE missle forces are made up of chinese dongfengs, or whatever they are called

>>2410102
>still not answering the question
Ok but what country are you criticizing China from and what efforts have you made to boycott Israel in your own country and is your country the country supplying more weapons to Israel than all other countries combined?

>>2410255
you don't understand, it's not about china, iran, or palestine. it's about the americans who come in here and demand that china stop selling labubus to israel as if that will create a difference in israel's ability to commit genocide when the USA sells more weapons to Israel than all other countries combined (in addition to just giving them shit for free)

>>2410255
>>The Palestinian resistance movement Hamas called on the Arab League and the broader international community to urgently intervene to halt the ongoing genocide in the Gaza Strip and to impose sanctions on the fascist Israeli occupation.

Man who cares china will do a socialism in one country and shit. No need for global international revolution. Chinese people have no moral obligation to the rest of the world

Brian Becker and Ken Hammond investigate the question all important for the w*stern left: "but is it really socialism tho"
Of course, the thumbnail feels a little misleading (I guess they do drift into clickbait on occasion). It's Breakthrough News. This ain't your mom's e-celeb or "breadtuber".

>>2410426
I'm sure China can reverse global warming on their own.

>>2410508
I listened to this yesterday it was quite interesting. I'd like to know the scale of the marxist learning groups he referenced, although he may have mentioned it and i forgot.

>>2410101
Nope the uyghurs will stay in re-education camps no matter how much you screech.

Sorry jungle trot, but,
>the investment in the 3rd world's needed development WILL CONTINUE.
>the transcending of the dogmatic planned economic model WIL CONTINUE.
>the civilizing of backwards people's WILL CONTINUE.
>the drive for reunification will CONTINUE.
>the valuing of traditional Chinese culture and its civilization will CONTINUE
>the crushing of the ethnonationalist separatist freaks WILL CONTINUE.

>>2410355
crickets

>>2410508
>>2410904
"china is only opening new marxist schools so they can teach the revisionist idea that conservative confucian capitalism is communism"

File: 1754028802797.png (1.89 MB, 1070x1484, ClipboardImage.png)


>>2411845
Brave and controversial take

Watch Forgotten Weapons on the history of Chinese small arms

>>2410355
>still not answering the question
The question is an attempt to distract from the point, and make the absurd implication that I, an individual in a Western country, ought to somehow be accomplishing more for Palestine than superpower which claims to be socialist and anti-imperialist.
>Ok but what country are you criticizing China from
Canada
>what efforts have you made to boycott Israel in your own country
I've been involved with numerous demonstrations and helped set up and run an encampment that successfully got the local uni to divest from Israel.
>is your country the country supplying more weapons to Israel than all other countries combined?
No.

>>2411862
>No
Not yet. But when you become the 51st state it will be practically, technically and spiritually true.

>>2410888
There is no reversing it. We are past that point

>>2411862
>Canadian
please invade the USA. my people yearn for freedom. i keep asking Xi Jinping but he won't do it so now I am reduced to begging the Red Leaf

>>2411870
No one's coming to save you. This is it.
Me neither, I am sitting here in europe, just watching on in dismay (why couldn't I have been born chinese).
However, here maybe your best hope actually lies with JDPON Don (formerly Don the Con). Now that the US bourgeois class has started formally sanctioning their allies (remember, they have no real allies, only interests), we will see cracks in the whole godforsaken system. This whole development is objectively funny and good. Just sucks for us, personally. But I feel like, in my better moments, that is a small price to pay.

File: 1754034456491.jpg (84.33 KB, 636x883, 1660260299730.jpg)

To recap: The spiritual and metaphorical cannibalism beginning in the west is a sign of better times to come.
Your stance on this downfall of the hegemon says more about your real politics than anything else (the theories in your head and so on, if you are a regular you may have seen me go on about this). Thus I have declared.
Americans on the right side of this are my allies.
Americans on the other side are my enemy.

>>2411870
Form separatist movements and do your best to increase anti-American sentiments and pro-Canada sympathies. Facilitate immigration of skilled workers and fellow travelers to Canada. Map local infrastructure and stockpile caches of weapons and supplies along the border.

Canada must be destroyed along with every bourgeois nation (including China). However this tickles a particular schizophrenic obsession of mine.

Basically there is an area roughly north of the 41st parallel that could be balkanized and occupied by Canada, which precludes most of the population of the us and most important political infrastructure and military installations, but nonetheless encompasses most of the fresh water reserves of America including the great lakes. This includes Minnesota, Wisconsin, Maine, Oregon, Washington state, and northern California. All of which have a high degree of sympathy among the population for separating from the US and joining a union with Canada. As America drifts into rightwing politics these sympathies are likely to increase, as we have seen occur after the two elections of Donald Trump. There are also several exclaves located within this zone that have had successful referendums and polls to join Canada, which could provide a legal basis for starting this process.
This realignment also opens up the opportunity to break off and take Alaska. Alaska is dependent on access from Washington state through Canadian territories, by land and sea. It is also has a powerful separatist movement itself which currently is dominated by a more rightwing petit-bourgeois ideological orientation. Additionally it is alleged that the Russian Federation has supported separatist politics in Alaska.

>>2411864
Yes but when that happens I'll be innawoods scalping Yankees so I feel like I'll get a pass.

>>2411845
This, if you've ever interacted with Chinese people, you can tell that they're the most hyper-capitalist people ever. They devote their entire lives to studying in order to be the best and trample on others, and they have children so that they can support them when they retire. They literally have a god of money whom they pray to for success in business.

china has a news website published in Esperanto
http://www.espero.com.cn/

>>2412146
> They literally have a god of money whom they pray to for success in business.
You say that like it isn't completely normal for people to leave offerings and pray and shit for this nonsense all over the world.

>>2412147
Esperanto estas bona kompromisa lingvo inter grandaj potencoj. La angla estas ameriko/eŭropo centra lingvo pro kio la BRICS nature volas eviti ĝin.

>>2411926
You are drone food + youre probably a city boy who cant handle innawoods.

>>2412146
sure but we have like a gorillion gods in general, there's a god for everything you could possibly think of. the best gods are the protective local ones like for fishermen or oyster divers.

as a third worlder i find chinks just as annoying and self centered as amerifats

>>2412147
Proof that China is cringe and reddit

>>2412146
>>2412185
>as a third worlder
Where the fuck are you from? India?
lmao

NEW BREAD FRESHLY BAKED:
>>2412519

>>2409687
>>2409798
GDP is a fake metric. For example, Puerto Rico, by the virtue of being a part of American economy, has GDP per capita higher than that of Japan


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