/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2405713
not a gusano fan but they are not "the greatest reactionary voting bloc in Florida" Believe it or not there are also a bunch of non-cuban reactionaries in Florida. Especially white people in North /Central Florida.

>>2405709
Is it possible to rehabilitate someone like this?

>>2405714
Stop being a dumbass anon he's not saying the concept of policing should be abolished but rather that bourgeois police forces should be destroyed so we can replace them and actively build presence on the ground without the US state cracking down on leftists
I do not think it is feasible in the American context but it is much deeper than just 'all cops are bastards"

>>2405717
maybe in the future when we have brain changing tech, at which point the question becomes are they really even the same person anymore.

>>2405721
We already solved this in the kink sphere I think. No, having your personality wiped is literally just killing you.

>>2405705
It’s like, fundamentally impossible for you to comprehend that the bourgeoisie aren’t gonna disband the police just because you ask, isn’t it? You think, what, you hold a sign that says “abolish the police” and you can just magically trick them into doing it?

But nah, let me guess:
>”They won’t do it, but we’ll get a mass movement demanding the police be abolished!”

Will you? Cause if you were annoyed by what I said so much you’re throwing a fucking temper tantrum here, then just wait till you talk to the masses who may legitimately think “but without the cops, people will all be raping and killing each other!”

See I’m under the impression that it’s simply what you’d want law enforcement to be after a socialist revolution, which is still problematic for its own reasons. You’re trying to position it as a tactic OF revolution, but if you’re trying to abolish the police in bourgeois society you’re either gonna end up with Blackwater Mercenaries with even less oversight replacing them, or at that point the revolution is pretty ongoing and so sloganeering about the police is irrelevant.

>>2405714
Start by envisioning an actual communist society and not the reformed bourgeois regime MLoids fantasize about

What the fuck does “order” mean? How is it a coherent idea outside of class rule? Do you cunts even ask yourselves questions or do you go entirely by your most degenerate base emotions which is why your idea of communism is usually just the Third Reich with hammers and sickles?

>>2405714
NTA but police enforce communism under communism. under capitalism they enforce capitalism.

>>2405725
Is this a real question? Order means people not raping and killing each other which is a very realistic possibility from a game theory perspective

>>2405725
> the reformed bourgeois regime MLoids fantasize about
NTA but "MLoids" pisses me off. You're the one fantasizing. After the revolution society doesn't instantly change overnight to whatever your fantasy is but starts off with the scars of the old society and gets reformed by the dictatorship of the proletariat. Yes. You heard me. Reform comes after revolution. Reform before revolution is liberalism. Reform after revolution is the dictatorship of the proletariat.

>>2405728
I think the desire for rape should be culled from the population.

>>2405725
Figures that instead of an answer I would just get leftoid postmodernist nonsense arguing that if we just change the meanings of words everyone will live in a happy lala land utopia where we can smoke weed all day. And if a cluster B psycho rapes your wife and skins your children well that’s just because he’s suffering from systemic oppression, you brought this upon yourself by failing to check your privilege!
I know American “communists” are all terminally lib brained but even you have to see how ridiculous this is

>>2405734
>communism is capitalism
……………..no

I have a feeling that the anon saying that order wont mean anything outside class society is the same anon who says that under communism even distinction of private individuals will be abolished but this is to go beyond Marx or even Hegel and into some radical gnostic Monism

>>2405735
>And if a cluster B psycho rapes your wife and skins your children well that’s just because he’s suffering from systemic oppression, you brought this upon yourself by failing to check your privilege!
nobody said that weirdo, and I don't even agree with the guy you're fighting

>>2405738
i mean eventually the big crunch will happen so that's true

don't talk to me about heat death, it's cringe and fake and assumes consciousness never takes over the universe

>>2405738
I think we need more of that gnostic esoterica here, at least that's something interesting to read.

>>2405739
I bring them up because leftists have no answer for dealing with cluster Bs other than pretending they don’t exist

>>2405724
> It’s like, fundamentally impossible for you to comprehend that the bourgeoisie aren’t gonna disband the police just because you ask, isn’t it? You think, what, you hold a sign that says “abolish the police” and you can just magically trick them into doing it?
No shit the bourgeoisie won’t just abolish the police, just like they won’t abolish wage labor, the firm, or the nation; I’m sure you expect me to uphold those grand pillars too, retarded fuck? You literally pointing out why there is nothing wrong with demanding the abolition of the police. The goal isn’t actually to acquire a reform or concession, it’s to get people to understand the fetters in their lives.
> Will you? Cause if you were annoyed by what I said so much you’re throwing a fucking temper tantrum here, then just wait till you talk to the masses who may legitimately think “but without the cops, people will all be raping and killing each other!”
Because motherfucker, we aren’t trying to achieve your grand movement to get DSA ᴉuᴉlossnW or whoever the fuck socdems soyface over elected, but to hold an actual radical line; communism won’t come about because communists convince workers that it needs to happen, you can’t voluntarily bring on an epochal shift, only history can set this up and only an entire class of people can achieve it. This isn’t an excuse to uphold bourgeois idealism and encourage it to proletarians. But I guess if you’re willing to shill for nationalism and racialism it makes sense why you don’t get this. Why you can’t comprehend communism isn’t workerism. It’s not about reinforcing every retarded spook the bourgeoisie has shat into the mass consciousness of the proletariat. And honestly? If you genuinely believe the proles are stupid animals that, in no circumstances, could ever comprehend abolishing a civil force that exists to murder and kidnap them based on the standards it chose for itself, at the very least maybe they could get behind stripping such an organization of its roles of surveillance and property defense.
> See I’m under the impression that it’s simply what you’d want law enforcement to be after a socialist revolution, which is still problematic for its own reasons. You’re trying to position it as a tactic OF revolution, but if you’re trying to abolish the police in bourgeois society you’re either gonna end up with Blackwater Mercenaries with even less oversight replacing them, or at that point the revolution is pretty ongoing and so sloganeering about the police is irrelevant.
Holy shit, it has nothing to do with your fascist fantasies about socialist police brutality, with the ACTUALLY EXISTING POLICE FORCES socialist organizing has been EXTREMELY DIFFICULT IS THE POINT; holy shit, the Black Panthers barely accomplished much more beyond being a national scale org practicing their actual constitutional rights and anarchist tier mutual aid and were still destroyed by an FBI with far less surveillance capabilities and access to urban suppressive technology

You are literally defending the noose on our throats to own protestors you dislike
>>2405728
Two questions:
How can you be sure the society you exist in does not predispose people towards violent acts rather than the essentialist position that some people are simply violent and are either evil or cannot control their own actions?
Secondly, why is an organization that exists specifically to be apart from and above the community necessary to deal with such a problem?
>>2405714
Who are you defending “order” against?

>>2405746
wtf is cluster b?

>>2405712
>NO COPS
>NO ARMIES
I love how easy you are to purge and conquer. It still baffles me some anarchists *choose* to be a bump in the road and will literally die on that hill out of spite for authority.

>>2405749
BPD women and sociopathic men
It came out in this thread about how homeless people in the US are all sociopathic narcissists its kinda hilarious to read

>>2405747
>Who are you defending “order” against?
Do you not know what a “counterrevolutionary” is or are you just pretending to be retarded?
>>2405750
If anarkkkiddies stuck to their principles they’d be a lot easier to purge, unfortunately they have a tendency to cooperate hand in hand with bourgeois law enforcement

>>2405735
> Figures that instead of an answer I would just get leftoid postmodernist nonsense arguing that if we just change the meanings of words everyone will live in a happy lala land utopia where we can smoke weed all day.
So Marx was a postmodern utopian now?
Please understand, Marx was not an MLoid, when he spoke about communism it’s pretty clear he didn’t mean armed guards forcing wage slaves to break rocks for 16 hour days at the People’s Mine (TM)

MLoids need to stop LARPing as Inner Party members from 1984 and read Marx, genuinely everything they spew about communism more accurately describes Auschwitz
>>2405749
He’s using it as a eugenics term referring to people whose existence justifies mass incarceration and executions
It’s funny that people who believe in such things never think they themselves and their own family should be shot in their heads and fed to the crows
>>2405754
> Do you not know what a “counterrevolutionary” is or are you just pretending to be retarded?
Do you not know what communism is? What counterrevolutionaries? George Orwell wasn’t depicting communism in 1984, there won’t be an eternal enemy who always needs to die, I am begging you to just go post on /pol/ if you are yet another denizen of this site that cannot differentiate “communism” from Nazi Germany

>>2405745
wtf did you just say about me you little mortal? I'll have you know I graduated top of my archons in the pleroma

>>2405749
probably what you have

>>2405750
Lmao mfer, please do more to LARP as a bolshevik from 1920, skinny fat pasty suburbanite motherfucker
I bet your own boomer father could beat your bitch ass into the dirt

>>2405757
Smash, next.

>>2405747
>How can you be sure the society you exist in does not predispose people towards violent acts rather than the essentialist position that some people are simply violent and are either evil or cannot control their own actions?
I believe that our society predisposed people to violence and apathy through systemic deprivation, but i believe it will still happen even without that because killing others is a much more of a banal act than a lot of people think. (I'm not a killer btw in case any law enforcement see this). A lot of killing can be as simple as choking people to death with pillows or poisoning them which doesn't cause any overt suffering and thus doesn't risk trauma on the perpetrators. This is why we still need some sort of legal deterrence on murder so people will think twice before killing others because relying solely on conscience or guilt just doesn't cut it in many times
Its like how even in a society where people rarely litters you still need laws against it due to how easy it is to litter

>Secondly, why is an organization that exists specifically to be apart from and above the community necessary to deal with such a problem?
Because it has to be impartial. The reason why closed communities often hushed sexual abuses for example is because everybody knows everyone and a lot of people just decide to turn their eyes away rather than risk fracturing the community

>>2405763
And yeah this is related to my first point but a legal deterrence against murder and manslaughter is very beneficial to prevent people from acting crazy during physical altercations since they know they can get in legal troubles if they killed someone even if only accidentally

>>2405746
>i said [strawman] because [buzzwords] [more strawman]
tiresome

>>2405759
>bolsheviks REEEEEEEEE
rent free

>>2405756
<muh Jorge Orwell
<ur a heckin NAZI if u believe in having a functioning society!
<Marx (who I’ve never read because he’s a white male oppressor) was actually a lumpen loving anarchist just like me!
Oh you’re one of those. Don’t you have some CP on Bluesky to goon to?

>>2405763
yeah the majority of murder in the US isn't premeditated. a lot of it happens opportunistically, often in the passion or heat of the moment

>>2405725
>>2405731
I had a guy attempt to go John Wayne on a solicitor in front of my store, got his face punched in, and came back the next day saying “HE GOT OFF LUCKY, I COULD HAVE KILLED HIM.”

I have zero faith that some “abolish the police” shit wouldn’t result in lynch mobs. The whole urge to do witch hunts hasn’t been banished from the human psyche, and one can point to the cultural revolution in China, despite some people bizarrely seeing it as a good thing, to see socialism where every person is deputized isn’t immune from some cynical neighbors using ideology to settle personal feuds.

Problem is none of the “abolish the police” crowd want to take a firm position, they never respond to points, and they get angry if you ask questions about how it’d work. It’s a phrase that they’re emotionally attached to, one that signifies being a part of the in-group. Not an actual policy or thing they think about. So they’ll needle you with shit to indicate you’re in the out-group or morally deficient—“erm, don’t you know cops were literally descended from slave catchers? Don’t you know they enforce bourgeois society?”

Let me put it like this, some pasty fatass came through my line the other day with a t-shirt depicting a silhouette hanging from a noose. In big letters it said: “A DEAD PEDOPHILE CANT BE A REPEAT OFFENDER”

Now, does anyone else have a problem with that? For one, we’ve had a few years of Q-anon calling everyone but Trump a baby eating pedo. For another, the noose, I mean it seems obvious to me the guy is just sublimating his desire to murder people into some Dexter-like “acceptable targets.” It’s Sadism trying to masquerade as justice. Finally, there’s people who are convinced that trans people are just de facto pedos by their existence—so could it be the fella is just dreaming of beating a trans woman to death? But you say any of that out loud, what do you think you’ll hear?
>”Hurr, why you defending pedos, huh?”
>”Youre awfully worried about what we’d do to pedos, you hiding something?”
>”Well unlike you, I think we shouldn’t let kids get raped!”

It’s the classic motte and Bailey of authoritarianism. And it relies on you being scared of what you’d sound like if you push back on it.

>>2405774
>the cultural revolution in China, despite some people bizarrely seeing it as a good thing
You whine of made up authoritarianism yet you back the blue. You are a fascist

>>2405776
WHO'S GONNA KILL THE FUCKING COUNTER-REVOLUTION, FUCKFACE

>>2405778
The People by cultural revolution like in Communist China

>>2405773
Yep this anon gets it
You dont need to be a particularly violent person to commit violence. This isn't essentializing people as inherently violent superpredator thugs or anything, its just acknowledgement that shit do be happening and it'd be ideal if we have the threat of legal punishment so people will at least rethink twice before doing something they might regret , and if you have law you need people to enforce that which any way you cut it is the police

Obv i think the police as it exist today is very hitlerite and authoritarian much like 1984 ironically. The greatest manifestation of George Orwell's dystopia is already present in American prisons; this is an anecdote but a literature teacher i know who taught classes to inmates find the inmates to identify much more stongly with 1984 than Brave New World since low income people in the US are more familiar with the overt brutality of a police state than the consoomerist dystopia of BNW

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>>2405779
the cultural revolution lynched a bunch of random scientists and then dengoids won anyway

>>2405721
Pump them so full of LSD that they barely have room in their veins for blood, and then make them binge watch Care Bears for a week straight.

>>2405060
Or the US

>>2405080
Kek

>>2405108
>THE CHOYNEESE AND ROOSSIANS MOLESTED OUR CHILDRENS
a classic

>>2405802
that isn't how LSD works