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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


 

Political implications of more Americans converting to Catholicism?

The American right was heavily associated with Evangelical idpol for the past 50 years. They became the cultural backbone of the GOP from the 80s to the late 2000s. Now it appears like a huge number of former Evangelicals are converting to Catholicism. I even know some ex-Mormons who are Catholic now.

At the same time, it seems like leftists are embracing Catholicism too. Remember when everyone was convinced Pope Francis was a secret socialist? Jacobin mag goes out of their way with appealing to Catholics as well (every other article of theirs is something along the lines of: “Move over pink-haired bipolar feminist queers, here’s why the Catholic Church are the REAL socialists!”). People like Dorothy Day are propped up even though her actual contributions to the American left were minimal and symbolic at best (the Catholic Worker also referred to the priests killed by /ourguys/ in Catalonia as “martyrs” which is disgusting). Not to mention, the Jacobin crowd seems very big on appealing to right-wing Catholic sentiments like complaining about birthrates being too low and proposing Bernie-style policies like universal healthcare to “fix” it, as if low birthrates are a problem to begin with.

But anyway, if Catholicism becomes a major cultural force in America in the next few years how do you see it affecting the political landscape?
89 posts and 13 image replies omitted.

>>2409753
>The German Church is only one example.
Ok, what about when the French and Italian social medias exploded in laughter and mockery at this obviously by gaudi Evangelical performatism inspired appearance by Marco Rubio on a prominent network, one of America's most notorious 'catholics'?

Can you explain to me how German Catholicism can be uniquely liberal but American Catholicism can't be uniquely evangelical, both as a function of the material conditions in both societies? You have yet to come up with an explanation for that.

>>2409745
That's exactly my point. Church doctrine has very little influence on how Catholics actually vote.

To anyone who thinks American Catholicism used to be “progressive” and was only corrupted by the influence of Evangelicals, I would highly recommend looking up the story of Bella Dodd.

She was a former CPUSA member who was very active in union organizing during the Party’s heyday. She ended up being purged for Browderism in the late 1940s. Soon after, she met with Fulton Sheen, reverted back to Catholicism, and ended up turning state and snitching on multiple people during McCarthyism after Sheen told her to. She wasn’t alone either. There were other ex-communists like Louis Budenz who did the same: become Catholic and turn into an anti-communist rat.

>>2409762
You still haven’t made a case that American Catholicism is Evangelical. All you did was claim the culture war that American Catholics participate in is foreign to their Church teachings when it isn’t in the slightest. American Catholics would still be anti-communist, anti-feminist, anti-abortion, anti-queer and vote Republican with or without Evangelical influence.

>>2409759
I unironically never noticed that Carmella just treats the church as free therapy until this fucking post

>>2409769
>>2409763
Can you liberals go maybe like 10 minutes without defaulting to your dysfunctional red team vs blue team / progressive vs. conservative dichotomies?

>>2409763
They voted for Bush on the basis that abortion was a bigger issue than the war. “War kills some innocent people but abortion only kills innocent people” or something like that. At least, that’s what I remember from those days (I’m 37).

>>2409756
>Honestly a lot of people just like Catholic aesthetics and the whole confessional thing is like free therapy.
Reality: Therapy is just secular Church Confessionals

>>2409591
lol sounds like my boomer parents as well. They like all of the pomp and circumstance. My dad, who was raised catholic and hates the pope regardless of which pope it is, understands that it's all bullshit and the stories are heavily embellished and/or pure fiction, but he finds it nostalgic seeing as he was raised going to a catholic church. I remember once he, for some reason, tried to argue that the church isn't against birth control. My mom goes simply because it makes her feel good and she's not much for critical thinking. Then there are my siblings, such as my sister (on birth control btw) who loves all of the decorations and lore about saints and such. Sends her kids to catholic school because it's one of the only private schools around here. Pretty sure they (the adults, of course) all vote republican.

I'm just going to stop typing here, but yeah, my experience matches yours.

>>2409773
I am not seeing any prominent German, French and Italian catholic individuals or organizations collaborating with openly evangelical lobbying groups to capture entire government branches in order to implement that agenda or an agenda that is in open defiance to the papacy like those concerning migration.

>>2409748
yet he isn't claiming the first, so you can't get him to prove something he isn't claiming

>>2409753
how about most of the churches, even those in the americas but not the US? why is the anti-human element of catholicism in the US significantly higher compared to catholics in almost every other place on earth?

>>2409726
>a doctrine like it was centuries ago when today its literally just larp and vibes
Catholics: "slavery is evil…no wait its good,…wait no, WAIT,"
>>2409758
>They don’t do that because they’re evil
if you soyface at GK Chesterton your soul has been lost

>>2409537
the church of ziggerism

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>>2409623
>>2409632
>>2409640
>Tailism
Anons will decry social democracy as "capitalism with a human face", mock all stripes of utopian socialist "theory" and thought as infantile, and revulse at the preversion and revision of Marx for less then revolutionary ends. But put a funny hat on any of it, and anons will argue it's "necessity and practicality", towards its "progressiveness and usefulness", till the end of days.

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>>2409895
i like this lenin quote better

>>2409901
That's a good ass find, thanks anon. I've never read this speech by him.

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>>2409374
>Christ is winning.

Question: if right-wing American Catholics are simply crypto-Evangelicals, wouldn't it also be fair to say that left-wing American Catholics are simply crypto-Quakers? Every single "leftyCath" I know buys into the pacifism and "consistent life ethic" thing whereby they're anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, anti-gun, and anti-war (I don't think I would call them anti-imperialist though because their definition of imperialism is the liberal one). They seem to care more about the peace-and-love aspect of Catholicism than the actual sacraments and Church teachings.

>>2409786
And what exactly are the main issues Catholics and Evangelicals join forces on? Oh I don't know, abortion bans, maybe? Birth control bans? Attacks on LGBTQ rights? Attacks on feminism? These aren't things that span across most Christian doctrines regardless of sect?

>or an agenda that is in open defiance to the papacy like those concerning migration.

There are plenty of European Catholics who oppose migration too, you know? It's not an "American Evangelical" thing at all.

>>2409793
His entire argument is that Catholicism in America is only right-wing because it's been infiltrated or influenced by Evangelical Protestantism, which isn't true. Catholicism in the US was always right-wing, anti-feminist, and very very very anti-Marxist.

>>2409795
>why is the anti-human element of catholicism in the US significantly higher compared to catholics in almost every other place on earth?
I don't believe it is. Ex-Archbishop Vigano who was extremely right-wing and he's Italian. Cardinal Sara (also very right-wing) is from Guinea. It's not hard to find Catholic priests and bishops in other countries who hate migrants, believe women should shut up and obey men, praise fascism, you get the idea.

>>2409929
>Every single "leftyCath" I know buys into the pacifism and "consistent life ethic" thing whereby they're anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, anti-gun, and anti-war
And those same Dorothy Day-style "Lefty Caths" were the ones behind the original anti-abortion movement. Evangelicals didn't become anti-abortion until the early 80s with Reagan and the Moral Majority. Meanwhile, Catholics were always anti-choice and made the anti-choice movement a thing to begin with.

>>2409929
Quakerism is just New Age Buddhism for Christians. The same literal idealist retardation just with Jesus.

Paradoxically, Catholicism is more materialist.

>>2409963
>>2409963
>>2409963
>I don't believe it is. Ex-Archbishop Vigano who was extremely right-wing and he's Italian. Cardinal Sara (also very right-wing) is from Guinea. It's not hard to find Catholic priests and bishops in other countries who hate migrants, believe women should shut up and obey men, praise fascism, you get the idea.
i didn't say there was no anti-human element in catholicism, but it is factually lower on average in almost every country besides the US, it'd help if you read what we said before responding to it


>>2410018
>i didn't say there was no anti-human element in catholicism
read before you post, please

>>2409735
Because they're Evolian traditionalist chuds. They take Catholic aesthetics overtop of a Calvinist settler-colonialism. Read into Mark Sedgwick's "Against the Modern World: Traditionalism and the Secret Intellectual History of the Twentieth Century." It's like how Isis is more Christian than Islamic. Islamo-fascism was largely a weapon constructed by American Empire and Islamic compradors to control their working class. It didn't really emerge organically out of the various national bourgeoisie. The Iranian branch of Islamic reaction is still bad of course, but it wasn't constructed as a weapon to justify imperialism and doesn't bear the same traits.

>>2409326
>Siri, now compare to the born Catholics who no longer practice!

>>2410027
>Because they're Evolian traditionalist chuds.
American Catholics read Evola? Please.

>They take Catholic aesthetics overtop of a Calvinist settler-colonialism.

What? Catholicism is the most settler-colonial of every world religion. Why does that element only (allegedly) exist in the US and not in LatAm where white Latinos still very much hold a racist/colonial worldview?

>>2410034
There are plenty of born-Catholics who are also right-wing.

>>2410058
>There are plenty of born-Catholics who are also right-wing.
I think he meant asking how many born Catholics are leaving the Church.

>>2409977
Watching this, I find it telling how she (former Quaker) was drawn to Catholicism because she wanted something more from her faith, like Quakerism was empty. I've heard most Quakers don't even believe in God at all and simply use their time at the meeting house as a political soapbox. Liberal social justice shit is their religion. How is that any different from any other secular ethical philosophy?

>>2409326
>Now it appears like a huge number of former Evangelicals are converting to Catholicism. I even know some ex-Mormons who are Catholic now.

Eeeeesh, I don't know if most of these people are ex-Evangelicals. Evangelical Christianity largely stresses an individualistic "personal relationship with God" over doctrine, dogma, or tradition. It's a very anti-intellectual religion - "the Holy Spirit speaks to me" is all they care about. Catholicism, on the other day, has a very intellectual tradition. A lot of Catholic school kids learn philosophy as a part of the curriculum. Catholicism is heavily rooted in all the things Evangelicals don't like.

So in essence, I would say that even if we assume what you're arguing is true, the real reason for the turn to Catholicism has more to do with Protestants wanting to be more intellectual about their faith.

Why would any leftist in their right mind become Catholic? Western Civilization IS the Catholic Church plus Rome. Any “leftist” who upholds Rome is upholding centuries of western colonialism and imperialism.

>>2411384
They look at Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker movement and think: "SEE! Catholicism IS leftism!"

That, and they really want to believe Pope Francis and the current pope are/were crypto-socialists. Also, they think Liberation Theology is the "true" Church teaching even though the Vatican has condemned it several times.

>>2409567
>>2409610
>>2409615
Evangelicals don't spend hours a day indulging in the writings of Augustine or Aquinas, or the writings of the Church fathers.

What drives someone to become Catholic is very different than what drives someone to become a born-again Evangelical. Most born-again Evangelicals are people who had a ton of trauma in their lives and get sucked into Evangelical churches on the basis of "feel-goodism". People convert to Catholicism because they like the intellectual and historical aspect to it, the fact the Catholic Church has an actual foundation in history rather than being the product of some white guy's "revelation" he had while walking through rural America 200 years ago. Most American Protestant denominations are products of the Second Great Awakening meaning they're Americans who LARP as the original church all while claiming the actual original church (Catholicism and Orthodoxy) hasn't been true to Christianity since the 6th century.

>>2411969
retarded post
most protestant denominations stretch back centuries before Amerikkka was even founded

>>2411973
So they're 450 years old instead of 200 years old, got it.

You don't find it a bit strange how nearly all Protestant denominations began in Europe or America? Where are all the Palestinian, Lebanese, Egyptian, Ethiopian, Iraqi/Chaldean, and Armenian Protestants?

>>2411988
you're such a dumbass you don't even realize that Catholicism was also founded in Europe. guess what every official christian denomination originated outside of the middle east.

>>2411993
Catholicism and Orthodoxy are the original Church. How many of the Church Fathers came from Western Europe vs. how many were born in Palestine, Anatolia, or North Africa?

>>2411988
>You don't find it a bit strange how nearly all Protestant denominations began in Europe or America?
That's because that's where Catholicism was and Protestants were people who seceded from the Catholic Church.

>>2411969
>People convert to Catholicism because they like the intellectual
They don't even read the bible.

>>2411996
Is that a reason to believe Protestantism is legitimate?

>>2411999
What makes you think this?

>>2412001
it's no more illegitimate or legitimate than any other sect

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its because we are in the end times. the roman catholic church is the continuation of the same roman state that executed Jesus. the pope literally calls himself the pontifex maximus and his triregnum is supposed to signify that he is the lord of all 3 realms as "god's representative on earth", actively substituting Christ. the office of papacy is itself antichrist. the 3 centres of power today are the roman province of londinium (the city of london), the district of columbia (D.C.) and vatican city - all roman catholic domains. as it is written in revelation, the beast with 7 heads is rome with its 7 hills - the emporer of rome is the anti-christ himself, which today, is the pope, where in catholic churches, they venerate the corpse of Christ in the crucifix, and partake in a cannibalistic ritual. devil worshippers.

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>>2412006
>pedophiles in magic robes are my spiritual authority
very righteous, wouldnt you say?

>>2412001
>Is that a reason to believe Protestantism is legitimate?
Idk I was just answering your question about its origins. Certainly at the time critics of the Church had a lot of valid complaints, and early Protestants were often at the vanguard of the first stirrings of bourgeois revolution.

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>>2412001
>What makes you think this?
But how are you going to act like I just made this up? You're seriously telling me you never heard that before?

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/catholics-need-to-read-their-bibles
>CATHOLIC.COM
>The Bible-reading habits of Catholics lag far behind those of Evangelical Protestants.

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Meanwhile Paraguay.

Low birthrate is absolutely a problem uygha. You can't do any economic planning or social program or even any mutualist self help if 70% of your population are geriatric pensioners. I'm tired of proglibs in the US pretending that low birthrate is not a major fucking problem. Nobody is gonna force you to have kids just because you admit this, we're not your parents

>>2412133
we aren't going to have 70% pensioners. nobody is going to deal with that problem. you are going to have to come up with a real problem to do with depriving the ruling class of their reserve labor and soldiers.

I see no change


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