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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


 

Political implications of more Americans converting to Catholicism?

The American right was heavily associated with Evangelical idpol for the past 50 years. They became the cultural backbone of the GOP from the 80s to the late 2000s. Now it appears like a huge number of former Evangelicals are converting to Catholicism. I even know some ex-Mormons who are Catholic now.

At the same time, it seems like leftists are embracing Catholicism too. Remember when everyone was convinced Pope Francis was a secret socialist? Jacobin mag goes out of their way with appealing to Catholics as well (every other article of theirs is something along the lines of: “Move over pink-haired bipolar feminist queers, here’s why the Catholic Church are the REAL socialists!”). People like Dorothy Day are propped up even though her actual contributions to the American left were minimal and symbolic at best (the Catholic Worker also referred to the priests killed by /ourguys/ in Catalonia as “martyrs” which is disgusting). Not to mention, the Jacobin crowd seems very big on appealing to right-wing Catholic sentiments like complaining about birthrates being too low and proposing Bernie-style policies like universal healthcare to “fix” it, as if low birthrates are a problem to begin with.

But anyway, if Catholicism becomes a major cultural force in America in the next few years how do you see it affecting the political landscape?

Basically it's just another thing that's considered "trad", ie it's a fascist signal. Indistinguishable from other larpy fascist bullshit like paganism or orthodox christianity

>the Catholic Worker also referred to the priests killed by /ourguys/ in Catalonia as “martyrs” which is disgusting
Anarchotards are most certainly not “our guys” in any respect
>antifa flag
Oh I see, you must be confused. R/socialism is the place you were looking for

>>2409334
You think it will make the GOP more overtly fascistic?

>>2409326
Christ is winning.

>>2409371
It's the other way around, GOP is already becoming more fascist and looking for more "trad" signifiers, like Catholicism

>>2409371
>>2409377
>drumpft is le Hitler!!!!
Again you seem to be lost on your way to Reddit

>>2409379
Trump’s administration is openly pushing eugenics.

Nothing to support it, but I genuinely have a strong feeling its a form of camouflage for a lot of people.

File: 1753906209822.jpeg (346.8 KB, 564x1005, IMG_0010.jpeg)


Pay no heed.
Them clarifying that they’re Christians/retarded just makes them easier to avoid.

>Political implications of more Americans converting to Catholicism?

Ehhhh I see it as part of the broader trend of young people simultaneously looking for community, but developing a cultural cynicism towards their roots. I wrote an article ages ago that there's been kind of an abandonment of "Americanism" in favor of more foreign, often European ideas. Y'know, before (left-wing) Americans could positively refer to Marx as "like Thomas Jefferson" or the North Koreans as like the Founding Fathers; but the Left out here has fallen out of love with those historical roots whereas the Right is more obsessed with images of authoritarian empires over the "noble yeoman farmer".

I've been to some of the big Protestant churches out here; even the Prots I know say one of them is basically run by the family from The Righteous Gemstones. I've attended one of their sermons, and it felt like a guy in Khakis explaining to dudes who run pool supply stores how to increase morale while vaguely gesturing at the Bible.

Catholicism, say what you will, is steeped in ritual and aesthetics. And at a time when Capitalist modernity seems depressingly inescapable, it points to forms that are at least unlike what we have now; ritual, sacrament, so on.

I've got to start getting ready for work, but I can see a few things kind of playing a role in it:

>The growing need for community.

Evangelicalism was the perfect religion for America at its time just because of its emphasis on individualism. It's one's "personal relationship with Jesus", which essentially means cynical Christians could promote their own mind to the status of God. They'd imagine they're talking with angels, that whatever they do is right, God-blessed, the works. I've seen videos of a woman who nearly killed her entire family in her car (something about lighting a match while fueling up their gas tank) and rather than saying "Oh fuck, I'm sorry" she just shrugs and says "If we died, it's cause God wanted us to die there." Or, in one bizarre case, a woman wanted to know if she should divorce her husband and marry a younger man, then claimed God told her it was okay 'cause she opened the bible and found a line that said something like "Throw the old man out".

But people are more lonely than ever. They want community. And they want a deeper community than just having a guy in Khakis tell you to start a small business. Hence Catholicism, ancient as it is, provides at least a semblance of community and holiness that rises above "whatever I think is what God wants".

>The decline of Capitalist orthodoxy

I think partially prompting the change is the fact even those on the Right are not the giddy libertarians they once were. They don't give a fuck for some false-idea of liberal "freedom", in fact many of them want order and structure and authority. They don't even have the same enamored view of big business 'cause they see BMW adopt rainbow capitalism for pride month.

Catholicism has its own critiques of Capitalism, and it allows right wingers to "RETVRN" to an older tradition than Protestantism. Like, Catholic economic policy is about promoting a wider social good; Catholicism was one of the earliest adopters of the concept of "social justice" (albeit as an alternative to Socialism) and so that kind of speaks to some right wingers who, say, despise the LGBT community but have no problem with the concept of universal healthcare. Left-wingers meanwhile can appreciate a religion that at least attempts to critique Capitalism to a degree beyond "Well you should just be more charitable."

In essence, the largest bloc of people in the U.S. are folks who want the state to step in and regulate Capitalism, but are divided over social policy. The Catholic church can appear more moderate than the screaming baptists shouting "GOD HATES YOU! FUCKING DIE ALREADY!" while still approximating a need for society to step in to ensure just outcomes.

>>2409326
>tfw Papism
>tfw not Russian Orthodoxy or Antiochian Orthodoxy

They’re not converting.

They’re subverting.

Zero political implications because they aren't converting from Evangelicalism to Catholicism. They are converting to Evangelical Catholicism.

>>2409326
I don't see how it matters, it's mostly an aesthetic thing and cultural club, just like belonging to any other subculture.

>>2409326
Most catholic converts, specially in the USA are just protestants and fascists who like cathedrals and latin chants. They hate the Pope, have no communal spirit, don't love thy neighbor and despise most catholic traditions, specially if they come from non-white countries.
They should honestly just become WH40K fans if they just like the evil empire aesthetics and nothing else.

>>2409352
Catholic worker's movement is pacifist.

>>2409567
Evangelical Protestantism and Roman Catholicism are pretty distant from each other theologically. There is no “Evangelical Catholicism”.

>>2409570
>that tweet
Most lifelong Catholics are shitty people as well. American Catholics largely vote Republican.

>>2409570
Who decides what the “right” Catholicism is? The Catholic Church is officially against universal healthcare for instance.

>>2409575
Most Catholics don't really know the churches' doctrine very well, they just go to church because that's what they've always done and as a kind of therapeutic deism, this is the experience from my boomer parents.

>>2409591
And the “cafeteria Catholics” are the ones voting Democrat. The ones who are hardcore about their faith are voting Republican.

A true Catholic would never vote for a politician who supports abortion access, for instance.

>>2409567
>>2409567
That is true, American culture is imbued with the Protestant ethos so you get deracinated converts like pic related: >>2409570, Europeans and Latin Americans and other Catholic nationalities have a greater sense than any American convert, just like a white American claiming to be German would be laughed at by actual euros

>>2409574
No, Anglo-Catholicism is a large tradition. It's pretty influential on the neopagan and Satanist communities. I would particularly recommend Ronald Hutton's "The Triumph of the Moon". Also Spencer Sunshine's "Neo-Nazi Terrorism and Countercultural Fascism: The Origins and Afterlife of James Mason’s Siege." This shit is all operation Gladio type psyops, military intelligence and so on and they're not very creative so they operate out of the same Anglo-Catholic template everytime. A large amount of Americans are already Anglo-KKKatholics. It's the whole KKK new age bullshit originally based on a fetishised anti-Catholic bigotry.

>>2409574
You quite literally have no idea what you are talking about, sorry and your views are fundamentally idealist. Contemporary American Catholicism, excluding the one practiced by very recent FOB Latinos is utterly WASPinized.

>>2409615
The largest influence on American Catholicism was the Irish. Mainstream American Catholicism has always been very Irish in tradition, not WASP at all.

>>2409610
Word salad. Again, American Catholicism is fundamentally Irish. That’s why they always did low mass over extravagant Latin mass, etc.

>>2409616
>>2409617
Century-old outdated stereotypes ultimately based in ignorance on contemporary sociological developments. The biggest influence on contemporary American catholicism is Evangelical puritanism. Every single European and Latin American Catholic will tell you that they can smell the creepy Evangelical stench from a mile away that surrounds you average American Catholic.

>>2409621
Demonstrate this with actual examples, please. What elements of American Catholicism are “Evangelical” exactly? Show them.

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Instead of thinking of implications think of whether something that benefits the masses can be done about it and I'd say "lets fucking shill liberation theology" is the answer to that question.

>>2409623
How do we do that, exactly?

>>2409627
the same way anything else is shilled man, just do it

File: 1753916413025.png (535.9 KB, 547x767, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2409623
i dont care about "the masses"

>>2409622
The very high share of American catholics that have identical views with evangelicals if you control for FOB Latinos and/or immigrants at opinion surveys. The very prominent presence of culture war catholics and even sede-vacantists in the American sphere that is in open tension if not dispute with the holy see itself. The general adoption of evangelical media culture, even megachurch aesthetics and modern sermon practices, just to name a few examples that are explicitly distinct from Catholic communities outside of the US and a direct influence from evangelicalism.

File: 1753916674471.png (686.84 KB, 640x762, 1749865698729371.png)

>>2409633
>We must use Marxism, which is positive in spirit, to overcome liberalism, which is negative. A Communist should have largeness of mind and he should be staunch and active, looking upon the interests of the revolution as his very life and subordinating his personal interests to those of the revolution; always and everywhere he should adhere to principle and wage a tireless struggle against all incorrect ideas and actions, so as to consolidate the collective life of the Party and strengthen the ties between the Party and the masses; he should be more concerned about the Party and the masses than about any private person, and more concerned about others than about himself. Only thus can he be considered a Communist.

>>2409636
>The very high share of American catholics that have identical views with evangelicals
Such as?

>>2409636
>The general adoption of evangelical media culture, even megachurch aesthetics and modern sermon practices, just to name a few examples that are explicitly distinct from Catholic communities outside of the US and a direct influence from evangelicalism.

What “media” are you talking about? EWTN, which is liberal Catholic at most? What “mega churches”? You mean cathedrals, which are what Catholic Churches have looked like for centuries? What “modern sermon practices” are you referring to, specifically?

Your post is nothing but hot air and broad assumptions without any real concrete examples. It seems to me like you’re just trying to pull a “NOT REAL CATHOLICISM” and “IT’s THE PROTESTANTS’ FAULT” without truly backing up your claim.

>>2409640
is that from mao? i would agree but i dont have a party, and cant consider myself a communist.

>>2409379
The GOP has been on the fascist track long before trump lol

>>2409644
Funfact: Evangelicalism isn't just spreading in the US. While it's outright spreading in Latin America through sheer conversion with Guatemala and soon Brazil becoming evangelical nations, Europe is actually now re-importing this brand of evangelicalized brand of Catholicism like those in far-right circles in France or Spain that are importing the same culture war battles and even outright opposition to the church when it comes to issues such as migration where the papacy is considered to be too 'lenient' i. e. too pussy-whipped.

File: 1753917098348.png (1.33 MB, 2048x2048, wol.png)

>>2409648
Good attitude. In china people not in a party call themselves "communist supporters" (if they feel affinity towards communist ideas, that is). I think that in the case of not having a party its good to be an active communist supporter that supports communism not only in agreement but also in action.

>>2409647
Can you explain to me why the American surpreme court has a supermajority of catholic judges, including among conservative justices?

File: 1753917299769-0.png (2.56 MB, 1280x834, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1753917299769-1.png (3.01 MB, 1280x960, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2409647
Not him but a "megachurch" is a specific thing that exists within a Protestant context. It's a phenomenon largely unique to America wherein a giant space that's basically equal parts conference center and shopping mall is given a Christian veneer over what is in practice basically having church service in a high school auditorium. They treat Christianity more as a front for advertising which means that every tacky piece of flair is considered legitimate in services, from Christian rock bands to Christian skateboard ministries and motorcycle clubs. All semblance of church doctrine meanwhile is generally discarded in favor of generic "feel good" messages

>>2409647
>What “media” are you talking about? EWTN, which is liberal Catholic at most?

This is a straight-up lie. Prominent EWTN hosts also appear on evangelical media outlets for example.

File: 1753917603989.jpg (1.35 MB, 1920x1080, catholic megachurch.jpg)

Ah yes the traditional Cathedral of St. Mathews Parish (totally not a megachurch).

>>2409652
Btw, thanks for bringing China up but one other feature is that American 'Catholics' are also routinely triggered by the Holy See cooperating with the Chinese government for example.

>>2409665
Like, didn't Vance and even Rubio at some point literally bring that up during their dealings with Francis?

>>2409617
These new JD Vance type converts aren't Irish.

>>2409657
> All semblance of church doctrine meanwhile is generally discarded in favor of generic "feel good" messages.

Everything else is true but that one part has always been the case everywhere.

>>2409662
>facade covering sheet metal roof

Any demographic breakdown on this at all? Would be curious to know a political belief breakdown (are these fash doing it, moderate reps, libs, or other?), also a demographic breakdown (are these young? Old? Men looking to become more trad, women looking to become more trad too, or both?)

I hate namefags but CPUSA has a point, the atomization and destruction of community in America has made people desperate for any sense of belonging.

>>2409690
No he fucking doesn't have a point. People with an Evangelical background converting to Catholicism isn't a sign that the latter is gaining ground, it's a sign it has reachedaa point that makes it near indistinguishable from the former in contemporary American society.

>>2409692
Was talking more about converting from nothing to Catholicism. Again, more info than "people are converting" would be nice.

>>2409693
>about converting from nothing to Catholicism

Not happening.

>>2409680
The Irish had a major influence on American Catholicism, arguably the largest and most prominent. That’s the main reason American Catholicism “feels different” from Catholicism in continental Europe. LatAm Catholicism is almost entirely Spanish and Portuguese influenced.

>>2409654
Why is being right-wing somehow outside of Catholic teaching? Catholics were the original anti-abortion activists in America. Catholics have always stood against LGBTQ rights. Catholics have always been largely critical of feminism. And don’t even get me started on how Catholics are viciously anti-communists and American Catholics were the biggest supporters of Joe McCarthy in the 1950s. Hell, the Kennedy family was pro-McCarthy.

>>2409650
Why are you obsessed with calling centuries-long Catholic teaching a “culture war” as if this kind of thing is completely outside of Catholic teaching? Are you this retarded that you think American Catholics would all be Berniecrats if it wasn’t for Evangelical influence?

>>2409658
Name those specific hosts. Who are they? Frank Pavone? He’s former Operation Rescue who’s been a quintessential attention whore from day one.

>we need to appeal to "the masses" regardless of whether it actually has to do with the proletariat alone or not
i hate democracy brained amerifats so much

File: 1753921065484.gif (1.43 MB, 640x360, 1661218899093.gif)

>5500 is the highest number in a decade
LOL statistically irrelevant

>>2409597
>A true Catholic would never vote for a politician who supports abortion access, for instance.
They wouldn't vote for people who consider empathy a sin either.

>>2409707
>They wouldn't vote for people who consider empathy a sin either.
t. moron who hasn't read the Bible or even interacted with Catholics.

>>2409698
Holy fuck, this retard actually is an unironic Irish exceptionalist, lmao.

>>2409700
>Are you this retarded that you think American Catholics would all be Berniecrats if it wasn’t for Evangelical influence?

Absolutely. In fact we have plenty evidence for this. German Catholics for example are very aligned in their support for the German welfare state and don't have assimilated elements of American prosperity gospel as much as their Evangelical Catholic counterparts in the US(neither have actual Irish Catholics btw).

If you were an actual materialist you would understand that the material conditions in a given country have a stronger bearing on religious/reliopoltical attitudes, even across different doctrines and faiths than some abstract idea of a doctrine.

>>2409572
So they're faggots?

>>2409710
>German welfare state
Very communist!

>>2409712
Bernie is not a communist dumbass.

File: 1753921428069.jpg (49.07 KB, 479x435, 1401239557597.jpg)

Realizing this retarded thread is going to be one of those "Catholics are actually wholesome chungus smol beans and Jesus would've said #transrights and all the meanie bible-thumping Catholics are actually the ones who are going to hell" discussions.

>>2409709
I was born and raised Catholic, I went to a Catholic elementary school, and obviously Catholics vote for people who deviate from church doctrine. I was just pointing out that if "true Catholics" would never vote Democrat because of abortion (which isn't true, many Catholics vote Dem) then they wouldn't vote Republican either for the huge list of shit they're doing that violates basic Christian principles. In reality of course they vote for both.

>>2409715
Shut the fuck up pedophile. The spread of evangelicism and evangelicalized religions as well as the desecularization of politics is a topic that merits a thread.

>>2409710
Yeah Catholics may all be socially reactionary to some degree or another but there's a pretty big difference between Catholic Social Teaching and the Prosperity Gospel followed by most American Catholics

>>2409719
>you're a pedophile for shitting on religion
Do Americans really?

its hilarious to see morons ITT treat religion as a doctrine like it was centuries ago when today its literally just larp and vibes

>>2409723
they called you a pedophile for using that image

>>2409698
My entire point is that these new converts aren't American American-Catholics (Irish), they are American Anglo-Catholics.

>>2409727
Bruh WTF? It's literally some random reaction pic.

>>2409710
>Absolutely. In fact we have plenty evidence for this. German Catholics for example are very aligned in their support for the German welfare state and don't have assimilated elements of American prosperity gospel as much as their Evangelical Catholic counterparts in the US(neither have actual Irish Catholics btw).

Because the Catholic Church in Germany is exceptionally liberal. Ratzinger was hated by most other German Catholics.

>>2409707
How do you know that? Most practicing Catholics would consider abortion a bigger “lack of empathy” than denying people healthcare.

>>2409719
>erm religion X and religion X offshoot are different things
every religion can be formally reduced to a simple private faith different from its manifestation as a source of political power, this hardly says anything

>>2409728
How are they “Anglo”? What makes them “Anglo”? Again, the influence of Irish culture on American Catholicism can’t be dented. Irish culture is hella Anglo-influenced anyway.

>>2409732
Republicans don't just deny people healthcare, they operate a giant concentration camp system and openly gloat about being cruel, among a long list of other heinous shit. It's a moot point though because lots of Catholics vote for both parties.

>>2409709
The Catholic vote in the US is split almost 50/50 because of abortion and queer issues.

It’s funny, because when American Catholics were overwhelmingly Democrat the Dems were tougher on communism than the GOP.

>>2409731
>Because the Catholic Church in Germany is exceptionally liberal.

Exactly, and the contemporary Catholics in the US are exceptionally evangelicalized, almost beyond recognition for exactly the same underlying reason.

Thanks for agreeing. It took a while but you got it in the end. Congratulations.

>>2409737
American Catholics still voted for George W Bush in 2004 despite the Church being against the Iraq invasion.

>>2409742
>and the contemporary Catholics in the US are exceptionally evangelicalized, you have yet to prove that:

1. The right-wing attitudes of American Catholics are entirely or mostly due to Evangelical influence

And:

2. That the conservativeness of American Catholicism is unique to American Catholics and not found elsewhere.

How do you explain the Church’s extremist anti-communism during the 19th and most of the 20th century?

>>2409737
Shut the fuck up you stupid DUMBASS Canadian. Thanks for derailing the discussion towards pointless blue team/red team shit.

>>2409737
>hurr durr let's reduce the acts of politicians to being le bad or le good
dumbfuck

>>2409742
The German Church is only one example.

How is the right-wing nature of Catholics in America specific to America? You don’t see Catholics in the Philippines supporting communism, do you?

Honestly a lot of people just like Catholic aesthetics and the whole confessional thing is like free therapy. So it doesnt really mean they are more religious or anything inherently.

>>2409737
They don’t do that because they’re evil but because they’re bought off by the insurance companies.

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>>2409756
You know, The Sopranos talks about this.

>>2409753
>The German Church is only one example.
Ok, what about when the French and Italian social medias exploded in laughter and mockery at this obviously by gaudi Evangelical performatism inspired appearance by Marco Rubio on a prominent network, one of America's most notorious 'catholics'?

Can you explain to me how German Catholicism can be uniquely liberal but American Catholicism can't be uniquely evangelical, both as a function of the material conditions in both societies? You have yet to come up with an explanation for that.

>>2409745
That's exactly my point. Church doctrine has very little influence on how Catholics actually vote.

To anyone who thinks American Catholicism used to be “progressive” and was only corrupted by the influence of Evangelicals, I would highly recommend looking up the story of Bella Dodd.

She was a former CPUSA member who was very active in union organizing during the Party’s heyday. She ended up being purged for Browderism in the late 1940s. Soon after, she met with Fulton Sheen, reverted back to Catholicism, and ended up turning state and snitching on multiple people during McCarthyism after Sheen told her to. She wasn’t alone either. There were other ex-communists like Louis Budenz who did the same: become Catholic and turn into an anti-communist rat.

>>2409762
You still haven’t made a case that American Catholicism is Evangelical. All you did was claim the culture war that American Catholics participate in is foreign to their Church teachings when it isn’t in the slightest. American Catholics would still be anti-communist, anti-feminist, anti-abortion, anti-queer and vote Republican with or without Evangelical influence.

>>2409759
I unironically never noticed that Carmella just treats the church as free therapy until this fucking post

>>2409769
>>2409763
Can you liberals go maybe like 10 minutes without defaulting to your dysfunctional red team vs blue team / progressive vs. conservative dichotomies?

>>2409763
They voted for Bush on the basis that abortion was a bigger issue than the war. “War kills some innocent people but abortion only kills innocent people” or something like that. At least, that’s what I remember from those days (I’m 37).

>>2409756
>Honestly a lot of people just like Catholic aesthetics and the whole confessional thing is like free therapy.
Reality: Therapy is just secular Church Confessionals

>>2409591
lol sounds like my boomer parents as well. They like all of the pomp and circumstance. My dad, who was raised catholic and hates the pope regardless of which pope it is, understands that it's all bullshit and the stories are heavily embellished and/or pure fiction, but he finds it nostalgic seeing as he was raised going to a catholic church. I remember once he, for some reason, tried to argue that the church isn't against birth control. My mom goes simply because it makes her feel good and she's not much for critical thinking. Then there are my siblings, such as my sister (on birth control btw) who loves all of the decorations and lore about saints and such. Sends her kids to catholic school because it's one of the only private schools around here. Pretty sure they (the adults, of course) all vote republican.

I'm just going to stop typing here, but yeah, my experience matches yours.

>>2409773
I am not seeing any prominent German, French and Italian catholic individuals or organizations collaborating with openly evangelical lobbying groups to capture entire government branches in order to implement that agenda or an agenda that is in open defiance to the papacy like those concerning migration.

>>2409748
yet he isn't claiming the first, so you can't get him to prove something he isn't claiming

>>2409753
how about most of the churches, even those in the americas but not the US? why is the anti-human element of catholicism in the US significantly higher compared to catholics in almost every other place on earth?

>>2409726
>a doctrine like it was centuries ago when today its literally just larp and vibes
Catholics: "slavery is evil…no wait its good,…wait no, WAIT,"
>>2409758
>They don’t do that because they’re evil
if you soyface at GK Chesterton your soul has been lost

>>2409537
the church of ziggerism

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>>2409623
>>2409632
>>2409640
>Tailism
Anons will decry social democracy as "capitalism with a human face", mock all stripes of utopian socialist "theory" and thought as infantile, and revulse at the preversion and revision of Marx for less then revolutionary ends. But put a funny hat on any of it, and anons will argue it's "necessity and practicality", towards its "progressiveness and usefulness", till the end of days.

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>>2409895
i like this lenin quote better

>>2409901
That's a good ass find, thanks anon. I've never read this speech by him.

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>>2409374
>Christ is winning.

Question: if right-wing American Catholics are simply crypto-Evangelicals, wouldn't it also be fair to say that left-wing American Catholics are simply crypto-Quakers? Every single "leftyCath" I know buys into the pacifism and "consistent life ethic" thing whereby they're anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, anti-gun, and anti-war (I don't think I would call them anti-imperialist though because their definition of imperialism is the liberal one). They seem to care more about the peace-and-love aspect of Catholicism than the actual sacraments and Church teachings.

>>2409786
And what exactly are the main issues Catholics and Evangelicals join forces on? Oh I don't know, abortion bans, maybe? Birth control bans? Attacks on LGBTQ rights? Attacks on feminism? These aren't things that span across most Christian doctrines regardless of sect?

>or an agenda that is in open defiance to the papacy like those concerning migration.

There are plenty of European Catholics who oppose migration too, you know? It's not an "American Evangelical" thing at all.

>>2409793
His entire argument is that Catholicism in America is only right-wing because it's been infiltrated or influenced by Evangelical Protestantism, which isn't true. Catholicism in the US was always right-wing, anti-feminist, and very very very anti-Marxist.

>>2409795
>why is the anti-human element of catholicism in the US significantly higher compared to catholics in almost every other place on earth?
I don't believe it is. Ex-Archbishop Vigano who was extremely right-wing and he's Italian. Cardinal Sara (also very right-wing) is from Guinea. It's not hard to find Catholic priests and bishops in other countries who hate migrants, believe women should shut up and obey men, praise fascism, you get the idea.

>>2409929
>Every single "leftyCath" I know buys into the pacifism and "consistent life ethic" thing whereby they're anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, anti-gun, and anti-war
And those same Dorothy Day-style "Lefty Caths" were the ones behind the original anti-abortion movement. Evangelicals didn't become anti-abortion until the early 80s with Reagan and the Moral Majority. Meanwhile, Catholics were always anti-choice and made the anti-choice movement a thing to begin with.

>>2409929
Quakerism is just New Age Buddhism for Christians. The same literal idealist retardation just with Jesus.

Paradoxically, Catholicism is more materialist.

>>2409963
>>2409963
>>2409963
>I don't believe it is. Ex-Archbishop Vigano who was extremely right-wing and he's Italian. Cardinal Sara (also very right-wing) is from Guinea. It's not hard to find Catholic priests and bishops in other countries who hate migrants, believe women should shut up and obey men, praise fascism, you get the idea.
i didn't say there was no anti-human element in catholicism, but it is factually lower on average in almost every country besides the US, it'd help if you read what we said before responding to it


>>2410018
>i didn't say there was no anti-human element in catholicism
read before you post, please

>>2409735
Because they're Evolian traditionalist chuds. They take Catholic aesthetics overtop of a Calvinist settler-colonialism. Read into Mark Sedgwick's "Against the Modern World: Traditionalism and the Secret Intellectual History of the Twentieth Century." It's like how Isis is more Christian than Islamic. Islamo-fascism was largely a weapon constructed by American Empire and Islamic compradors to control their working class. It didn't really emerge organically out of the various national bourgeoisie. The Iranian branch of Islamic reaction is still bad of course, but it wasn't constructed as a weapon to justify imperialism and doesn't bear the same traits.

>>2409326
>Siri, now compare to the born Catholics who no longer practice!

>>2410027
>Because they're Evolian traditionalist chuds.
American Catholics read Evola? Please.

>They take Catholic aesthetics overtop of a Calvinist settler-colonialism.

What? Catholicism is the most settler-colonial of every world religion. Why does that element only (allegedly) exist in the US and not in LatAm where white Latinos still very much hold a racist/colonial worldview?

>>2410034
There are plenty of born-Catholics who are also right-wing.

>>2410058
>There are plenty of born-Catholics who are also right-wing.
I think he meant asking how many born Catholics are leaving the Church.

>>2409977
Watching this, I find it telling how she (former Quaker) was drawn to Catholicism because she wanted something more from her faith, like Quakerism was empty. I've heard most Quakers don't even believe in God at all and simply use their time at the meeting house as a political soapbox. Liberal social justice shit is their religion. How is that any different from any other secular ethical philosophy?

>>2409326
>Now it appears like a huge number of former Evangelicals are converting to Catholicism. I even know some ex-Mormons who are Catholic now.

Eeeeesh, I don't know if most of these people are ex-Evangelicals. Evangelical Christianity largely stresses an individualistic "personal relationship with God" over doctrine, dogma, or tradition. It's a very anti-intellectual religion - "the Holy Spirit speaks to me" is all they care about. Catholicism, on the other day, has a very intellectual tradition. A lot of Catholic school kids learn philosophy as a part of the curriculum. Catholicism is heavily rooted in all the things Evangelicals don't like.

So in essence, I would say that even if we assume what you're arguing is true, the real reason for the turn to Catholicism has more to do with Protestants wanting to be more intellectual about their faith.

Why would any leftist in their right mind become Catholic? Western Civilization IS the Catholic Church plus Rome. Any “leftist” who upholds Rome is upholding centuries of western colonialism and imperialism.

>>2411384
They look at Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker movement and think: "SEE! Catholicism IS leftism!"

That, and they really want to believe Pope Francis and the current pope are/were crypto-socialists. Also, they think Liberation Theology is the "true" Church teaching even though the Vatican has condemned it several times.

>>2409567
>>2409610
>>2409615
Evangelicals don't spend hours a day indulging in the writings of Augustine or Aquinas, or the writings of the Church fathers.

What drives someone to become Catholic is very different than what drives someone to become a born-again Evangelical. Most born-again Evangelicals are people who had a ton of trauma in their lives and get sucked into Evangelical churches on the basis of "feel-goodism". People convert to Catholicism because they like the intellectual and historical aspect to it, the fact the Catholic Church has an actual foundation in history rather than being the product of some white guy's "revelation" he had while walking through rural America 200 years ago. Most American Protestant denominations are products of the Second Great Awakening meaning they're Americans who LARP as the original church all while claiming the actual original church (Catholicism and Orthodoxy) hasn't been true to Christianity since the 6th century.

>>2411969
retarded post
most protestant denominations stretch back centuries before Amerikkka was even founded

>>2411973
So they're 450 years old instead of 200 years old, got it.

You don't find it a bit strange how nearly all Protestant denominations began in Europe or America? Where are all the Palestinian, Lebanese, Egyptian, Ethiopian, Iraqi/Chaldean, and Armenian Protestants?

>>2411988
you're such a dumbass you don't even realize that Catholicism was also founded in Europe. guess what every official christian denomination originated outside of the middle east.

>>2411993
Catholicism and Orthodoxy are the original Church. How many of the Church Fathers came from Western Europe vs. how many were born in Palestine, Anatolia, or North Africa?

>>2411988
>You don't find it a bit strange how nearly all Protestant denominations began in Europe or America?
That's because that's where Catholicism was and Protestants were people who seceded from the Catholic Church.

>>2411969
>People convert to Catholicism because they like the intellectual
They don't even read the bible.

>>2411996
Is that a reason to believe Protestantism is legitimate?

>>2411999
What makes you think this?

>>2412001
it's no more illegitimate or legitimate than any other sect

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its because we are in the end times. the roman catholic church is the continuation of the same roman state that executed Jesus. the pope literally calls himself the pontifex maximus and his triregnum is supposed to signify that he is the lord of all 3 realms as "god's representative on earth", actively substituting Christ. the office of papacy is itself antichrist. the 3 centres of power today are the roman province of londinium (the city of london), the district of columbia (D.C.) and vatican city - all roman catholic domains. as it is written in revelation, the beast with 7 heads is rome with its 7 hills - the emporer of rome is the anti-christ himself, which today, is the pope, where in catholic churches, they venerate the corpse of Christ in the crucifix, and partake in a cannibalistic ritual. devil worshippers.

File: 1754041966281.png (124.71 KB, 1066x1599, ClipboardImage.png)


>>2412006
>pedophiles in magic robes are my spiritual authority
very righteous, wouldnt you say?

>>2412001
>Is that a reason to believe Protestantism is legitimate?
Idk I was just answering your question about its origins. Certainly at the time critics of the Church had a lot of valid complaints, and early Protestants were often at the vanguard of the first stirrings of bourgeois revolution.

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>>2412001
>What makes you think this?
But how are you going to act like I just made this up? You're seriously telling me you never heard that before?

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/catholics-need-to-read-their-bibles
>CATHOLIC.COM
>The Bible-reading habits of Catholics lag far behind those of Evangelical Protestants.

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Meanwhile Paraguay.

Low birthrate is absolutely a problem uygha. You can't do any economic planning or social program or even any mutualist self help if 70% of your population are geriatric pensioners. I'm tired of proglibs in the US pretending that low birthrate is not a major fucking problem. Nobody is gonna force you to have kids just because you admit this, we're not your parents

>>2412133
we aren't going to have 70% pensioners. nobody is going to deal with that problem. you are going to have to come up with a real problem to do with depriving the ruling class of their reserve labor and soldiers.

I see no change

>>2411969
Yeah but the Nazis like JD Vance convert because they read Julius Evola's "Revolt Against the Modern World".

>>2412150
It is. Look at Japan, US etc. Migration is covering for it in the West but it also is causing a severe fertility decline in the third world. Stop burying your fucking head in the sand mate

When you steal a country from millions of Mexicans and live amongst them for centuries this kind of thing is bound to happen. How do you think the Roman Catholic church got started in the first place?

>>2413214
>steal a country
not a serious "communist"

>>2409326
all this catholicism obsession with secular americans comes from protestants being completely fucking annoying, and these secular humanist bleeding heart liberal types feel uncomfortable harboring a hatred for a whole religion so they latch onto catholics as "the good christians" for not being frothing at the mouth fox news watchers for the most part, in order to soothe their own conscience

and online rightoids want to become catholic because they've looked at too many ai gen crusader images that looked cool


>>2409929
Quakers aren’t even Christians. They don’t even have churches but meeting houses like the JWs.

>>2409326
>Political implications of more Americans converting to Catholicism?
I don't know. Atlanticism I guess

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>>2411988
>You don't find it a bit strange how nearly all Protestant denominations began in Europe or America? Where are all the Palestinian, Lebanese, Egyptian, Ethiopian, Iraqi/Chaldean, and Armenian Protestants?
You might have a "revelation" too while living in rural America around 200 years ago. They were people living incredibly drab and monotonous lives in the middle of nowhere and in a fairly harsh environment. But I think it also reflected a democratic tendency in contrast to the hierarchical Catholic Church and the feudal world it represented.

File: 1754247362047-0.png (147.47 KB, 601x765, hobs_01.png)

File: 1754247362047-1.png (176.27 KB, 615x915, hobs_02.png)

From "The Age of Revolutions"

>>2415229
“Personal salvation” is such a meme.

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>>2415232
Here's Hobsbawm talking about 19th century tradcaths

If I’m being honest, I see it as a product of the failures of liberalism.

>>2415917
She’s not entirely wrong.

>>2409579
>Who decides what the “right” Catholicism is?
This question is actually very easily answered, the Catholic Church. That is why these people are just protestants, no matter what they call themselves, they reject Church's authority over religious matters.

>>2417015
Literally where have you been told any of those things other than minor tumblr blogs?

>>2423398
I'm not convinced American Catholics are Evangelicals in disguise. I've been around both practising Catholics and Evangelicals and they're both very different in a lot of regards.

>>2409379
he said GOP not trump you illiterate
>reddit reddit reddit
this is just epic chanlord vice signalling people use to shut down conversation

TBH I think seeing loads of Americans convert to Catholicism is a prerequisite to socialism in America.

Think about it. Zionist Jews with a satanic Zionist agenda make up a huge amount of the ruling elite. How do we fight against them? The only way the masses can take out their power is if they first embrace a theology that rejects Zionism. Catholicism is that theology. The Vatican has always been anti-Zionist. Same thing with the eugenics question. No other institution has fought against eugenics as fiercely as the Catholic Church. If Americans largely become Catholic it will set the conditions for a social revolution which will then lead to the weeding out of capitalism and implementation of socialism.

If anything, American leftists need to convert to Catholicism en masse and set the example for others. A group like Rehumanize International should have as many members as DSA.

>>2423402
As a non-American it's impossible to ignore the degree to which American Catholics are utterly Evangelicalized when hanging out with them.

>>2423402
So there is an internal discussion within the Church of there being an unofficial "Americanist" heresy. Essentially people who are raised Catholic but subconsciously incorporate American and protestant ideas into their faith, holding more to individual interpretation rather than the authority of The Church.

That said, a lot of it boils down to Catholic Social Teaching vs Evangelicalism's "Personal Relationship with Jesus". Most of my education was a Catholic education, and from about 8th grade on they were insistent that social work was an important aspect of The Faith. We'd have field trips where we worked in food banks, in highschool we had semester-long requirements for doing charity work after school. Faith was something you do and not necessarily something you passively have.

>>2434046
You will have to elaborate on what you mean.

>>2434012
Say that to tradcath shithole Hungary which is the most zionist nation of Europe

>>2434048
Why would Americans mass convert to Islam?

>>2434057
Orban is no more Zionist than Putin. It’s about politically useful alliances.

>>2434060
>>2434060
>Orban is no more Zionist than Putin.
HAHAHAHAHAHA

The roach Orban literally bootlicks Netanyahu like Trump, Putin has the decency to at least pretend to talk tough

>>2434012
Why are Jews a problem?

Fascism is just the political form of Catholicism. If America becomes Catholic then all the warbling about "fascism coming home to roost" might come true.

>>2434289
Care to explain further? What’s fascist about Catholicism?

A lot of people become Catholic through the anti-abortion movement.

>>2434360
Catholics are anti-Communist

You have to register to be a cathlic? Like, that is a measurable thing they can tell is rising and falling?

>>2434466
Yes. If you have ever been baptized a Catholic then there is some kind of church record that has been created and yes the Catholic church, which is a monolithic international org has access to it. If you have been baptized and move to a country where there is a church tax like in Germany for example the Church will literally crosscheck their records in your home country at one point to see whether you have to pay up when you are registering your residency.

>>2434057
>Say that to tradcath shithole Hungary which is the most zionist nation of Europe
Nobody pay attention to the alliance between Israel and Lebanese Catholic mobsters during the civil war there.

>>2434451
Explain liberation theology then.

>>2434360
The Catholic church is just the remnants of the feudal equivalent of social democracy, it's feudal social-fascism.

>>2434475
>>2434475
Lmfao I forgot about Kataeb, these fuckers were literally commiting genocide of palestinians alongside their zionist allies

>>2409326
>Political implications of more Americans converting to Catholicism?
I guess catholics are more moderate compared to evangelical religious freaks who are usually zionists.

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>>2434012
>TBH I think seeing loads of Americans convert to Catholicism is a prerequisite to socialism in America.
>>2434048
>If anything Islam is the way to go.

No, the answer is to completely despook people like what China is doing to the Uyghurs. Religion is complete nonsense based on a like and has always been a tool of control for the ruling class.

>>2435209
wheres the hammer and sickle in that assortment?

>>2435171
More than that I’d say Catholicism allows some social conservatives to make a clean break from laissez-faire capitalism. It was always an alliance of convenience for them, and capitalism’s failure is becoming obvious. You see this in the divide between Ben Shapiro and Rod Dreher types.

>>2435244
>Rod Dreher
I forgot about this freak. Are Catholics really that big on exorcism or was that just him?

>>2435251
Just him—though he later converted to orthodoxy to be more trad.

I’ve watched some documentaries on Catholic exorcists and the vast majority of them have the Priest explaining that they have pretty stringent rules for it. The Church’s position in modern times is that if someone comes up to you saying they’re possessed by a demon, you should refer them to a psychiatrist. If the psychiatrist says they can’t actually explain what the fuck is happening to the person, then the Church steps in.

There was one particular Church in the U.S. that got lots of calls about demonic possession and the priest straight up said it was mostly lonely people who wanted someone to talk to, so him and some parishioners set up a hotline just to have friendly chats.

>>2412004
correct

>>2409570
this pretty much, the fact a bunch of right wing young people (mostly male) are doing this to be le based and trad

>>2434056
Obession with scripture. Complete assimiliation of prosperity gospel. Open opposition to current church positions (like those on migration), assimilation of (tel-)evangelical showmanship an virtue signaling, etc.

What's up with this thread being infested by people trying to preserve the honor of 'American Catholicism'? Isn't this supposed to be a socialist board? Is this thread getting raided? Fuck religion.

>>2435171
American Catholics overwhelmingly voted Democrat until Roe v Wade.

A lot of converts are so because of what they think Catholicism is due to intellectual pursuits and for performative reasons, which means little will change for the better for them. Cradle Catholics understood what Pope Francis meant when he said Marxist ideals were taken from Catholicism. "The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common." (Acts 4:32)

>>2436156
American Catholics hate(d) Francis.

>>2435801
Absolutely irrelevant to the discussion. This is not about red vs. blue team. Democrats letting Republicans compromise RvW while there were in fucking government effectively give them the same position on this issues.

>>2436156
Plenty of cradle Catholics are right-wing turds too. No idea where this "WELL AKSHUALLY CRADLE CATHOLICS ARE EGALITARIAN LEFTISTS" comes from.

>>2437493
>No idea where this "WELL AKSHUALLY CRADLE CATHOLICS ARE EGALITARIAN LEFTISTS" comes from
Egalitarian Catholics are born into it, but not necessarily the other way around. Converts are almost all retvrn chuds especially in current year.

>>2437505
There are leftist converts to Catholicism too.

Also, most "egalitarian Catholics" are cultural Catholics who don't even attend mass or go to confessional. They're just Quakers who like the pope.

>>2436164
The internet made it seem that way but some of us don't hate anyone.
>>2437533
We were born into it but I'm not sure about the younger generation. The influencer grift tends to generate counterfeits instead of converts who freely respond to the call, and this effect appears to be contagious.


This was the first Catholic influencer video I remember watching years and years ago.

She's still Catholic and is married with a kid now.

>>2437549
The mistake a lot of converts make is to engage in polemical apologetics against their former faith or other faith traditions. An answer in response to a question is one thing but this isn't evangelization so much as argumentation to support a lifestyle. Just an observation, but most of them seem to fall into this trap.

>>2437553
Would you say the same about leftists who engage in constant polemics against their former belief systems, such as a former conservative raised in a conservative Evangelical home who ends up becoming a Marxist and makes loads of vlogs against the right-wing propaganda they were raised with? It doesn't seem unique to Catholic converts at all.

>>2437555
Indeed. I never belonged to either side and I'm a registered Independent because I see corruption on both sides.

>>2437549
>That thumbnail
Anyone who dyes their hair blonde to conform with Amerikkkan "beauty" standards is a weak willed reed bending to sway with culture, who should not be trusted on any matters of import.

>>2437565
Lizzie isn’t a right-winger.

>>2437565
>Anyone who dyes their hair blonde to conform with Amerikkkan "beauty" standards
wtf are you talking about retarded pseud


>>2434012
are we not on the socialism website? why should humanity fight the genocidal religious ideology with another religious ideology that previously was genocidal? religion should be kept in the past by anyone seeking to liberate humanity from the current world order, religious people should either subordinate their faith to Marxism or be treated as an obstacle.

>>2437656
How do we enforce atheism?

>>2437673
by gun and by knife

>>2437673
ban full time religious education and have a competent education system, period.

Okay how do we promote Liberation Theology?

>>2438397
That doesn't work. If Catholics are interested they can read Church documents about social justice and, if they set aside their confirmation bias, come to a better understanding of what lived charity means. But movements that rely on tapping into envy and resentment act contrary to the Gospel. It is a moral inconsistency, like claiming the title 'pro life' while supporting the death penalty and depriving the poor of the necessities of life.

Do Christcucks actually think like this???

>>2438891
>lived charity
Charity isn't solidarity.

>>2440941
What's anti-Christian about gangbang porn?

>>2438397
Converting to romanism has the same effect as converting to capitalism and worshipping oligarchs as gods, Protestantism is the People's Religion not Romanist Satanism

>>2440946
>solidarity
This is true, but it can be among those who practice it. Subsidiarity and solidarity are both necessary for societies to live a somewhat peaceful existence amidst the struggle for survival. Unity doesn't require uniformity. I don't know if I'm making sense so maybe this will help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0jq7jIa34Y

>>2440941
you can literally murder children by the millions and it's still cool so long as you repent on your deathbed

>>2441853
every week there is a pastor arrested in the US for CP or molesteration


>>2441853
>repent on your deathbed
This is taught because of the mercy extended to Good Thief but only God knows if we regret and repent. Many who think like this likely end up like the rich man who went to hell while Lazarus was welcomed by Abraham. Jesus reveals at the judgement who served God and who served themselves in this life.

This thread is still extremely stupid and based on a false premise

>>2440975
>What's anti-Christian about gangbang porn?

only the husband or father can own woman and sex in the christian faith is an act one does to assert their ownership over women, ergo gangbang is confusing to their brains.

>>2442166
Ur not wrong, but I say this as a Catholic who doesn't like politics supplanting faith and faux converts who are fine with Protestant Bibles and their commandments being forced on society. The separation of church and state is the only way to protect the integrity of both. Co-opted religion is just another form of idolatry.


>>2442181
>The separation of church and state is the only way to protect the integrity of both
I don’t want the integrity of both. I want them gone.


>>2411988
>You don't find it a bit strange how nearly all Protestant denominations began in Europe or America? Where are all the Palestinian, Lebanese, Egyptian, Ethiopian, Iraqi/Chaldean, and Armenian Protestants?
How do you have Protestantism without Catholocism? That's what it means, protesting against the Catholic Chruch. But actually Evangelicalism is taking over Ethiopia right now.

>>2411988
>Where are all the Palestinian, Lebanese, Egyptian, Ethiopian, Iraqi/Chaldean, and Armenian Protestants?
they're called muslims

Heh

It seems the majority of people ITT are theologically illiterate. Not all Catholics (or even a plurality of them) are internet tradcats. Not all Evangelicals are right wingers.

>>2409326
>it seems like leftists are embracing Catholicism too.
There’s a more disturbing reason for this. After 9/11, there was a big shift in European intelligentsia to begin to appreciate Christianity again. Christianity, so the story goes, is a special religion that enabled Europe to become liberal and created the foundations for socialism, whereas Islam is a religion that’s just inherently reactionary and fanatical so it could never evolve. So Christianity makes “us” special and different from “them.” You Zizek extend this type of thinking to Buddhism, where he associates Buddhism with nihilism and fatalism. China is a despotic unfree country because of Buddhism. There’s a disturbing neo-imperial Christian exceptionalism going on here where a Christian heritage makes you superior to the rest of the world. Idpol at its worst.

This shift in attitude suddenly turned Christianity from a religion of the poor, to something cool and elite and trendy for the middle class and intellectuals. Ironically, the leftist embrace of Christianity comes at a time when Christianity has been taken up by the bourgeois elite.

>But anyway, if Catholicism becomes a major cultural force in America in the next few years how do you see it affecting the political landscape?

My experience with Catholic clergy in the US is that most tend to be liberal or left wing, even if they have some positions libs wouldn’t like. Few are right wing. There are more right wingers going into right wing Catholicism but at the same time you have left wingers going into the mainstream of Catholicism which is lukewarm liberal.

The results can vary depending on the type of Christianity leftists embrace. I see two options 1. A left that’s less atheist and less fixated on extreme secular fundamentalism, more faith engaged, less abrasive and hostile for religious people, more interested in interfaith dialogue 2. The left becomes increasingly xenophobic, especially towards Muslims and Chinese because they are non-Christian and incapable of being socialists without being Westernized first. So the secular fundamentalism gets paired with a Christian exceptionalism to create a new paternalistic politics aimed at combatting the Chinese. This would just function as a futile left flank of imperialism and be impotent in the face of a rising new right.

>>2444834
>It seems the majority of people ITT are theologically illiterate
/leftypol/'s fanbase of MLfags and Haz Stalinist here constantly bitches about anarchofags, anything religious or Trotskyist.
It isn't being illiterate, it's the loudest bunch not wanting anything theologically related (as they are already biased against it), or learn anything theological.

>>2444889
Doesn’t Haz claim to be a Muslim or something?

>>2444889
>>It seems the majority of people ITT are theologically illiterate
So are the majority of the retards and faggots in the church, TBF.

>>2444780
I misread that user profle as Tard_West and now I can't unsee it.

>>2444834
You’re even seeing leftists and the far-right embrace this idpol when it comes to the Gaza genocide: “Israel is barbaric because it is Jewish and Jews don’t believe in mercy or universalist morality”.

>>2445189
It takes years of theological training to become a Catholic priest, what are you talking about?

>>2437549
>married a kid
I thought preists weren't allowed to get married

>>2445373
Careful, you gonna anger the resident islamists

>>2444834
>>2445373
It’s also not surprising that you’re starting to see people on the left use leftist tropes in order to justify social conservatism. Zizek stans and Jacobinbros are the worst with this. Every so often in Jacobin you’ll see an article arguing something along the lines of: “Bernie Sanders’ single-payer healthcare plan is the key to making women have babies again”. Or: “America needs to go back to the 1950s when the rich were taxed to hell and wealth inequality was at its all time lowest!”

Obviously, we’re not stupid and we see through these dogwhistles very easily.

>>2444834
What makes you think the western left hates China?

>>2444834
option 1 pls

>>2445189
That's by design. Critical thinking skills are antithetical to the religious enterprise. This is precisely why the the only audience you can consistenly manipulate are the church-going right wingers. Take >>2445439 for instance. There is zero substance to his argument from the first glance, and the combination of his post and the imagery tries to subconsciously nudge you to think that the leftist thought is something that is set in stone and unchanging and not informed from scientific progress. From his conveniently constructed strawman he argues that leftist policies (which were never implemented in the USA or in Europe) are the reason why birth rates are falling, and certainly not the economic crisis caused by printing trillions of dollars out of thin air during COVID. Do not ask him where all that money really went.

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His influence is everywhere

>>2445373
Gaza is where you saw the mask slip and a lot of people got exposed. Zizek especially.

>>2445446
I don’t know about the whole Western left, but there is this crypto-racist tendency among many European leftist intellectuals. These people buy into European Christian exceptionalism, not because they are Nazis or even Christian, but because they see Western culture and religion as the foundation for progress and socialism. Basically, Asians and Middle Easterners are reactionaries or despotic and that’s because of Islam or Buddhism or Chinese culture etc. so the decline of Western power and influence will lead to a decline in progressive values. You can already see how this has lots of parallels with Bush era imperialist ideology.

>>2445439
Weird article even by Jacobin standards. I don’t think it’s social conservatism though. Similar to the far-right, they seem worried about population decline in the West and see Asia as a demographic threat.

>>2445373
Jews celebrate the genocides they committed in the past to this day, killing all the women, children and animals is considered a virtue and pleasing to God.

>>2445558
All Jews? C’mon. You’re spewing /pol/-tier shit.

>>2445541
Still not convinced the western left hates China though.

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>>2445583
False analogy.

>>2445601
No it isn't. I didn't say "all", you did

>>2445612
You said “Jews” which implies all. You could have easily said “some Jews”.

>>2445583
AI sloppa, a missile has been sent to your address.

>>2409326
The trend for the US population is still to be less religious overall. Most of the US catholic population growth is just Latino population growth, and converts are a minority. But even Latinos are becoming less catholic.

>>2445745
Conversions are at the highest levels in 20 years

>>2445541
I take it these intellectuals you speak of are Europeans?

>>2445439
I’m not defending pro-natalists or abortion/birth control bans, but you could make the argument that low birthrates are a result of cultural pessimism, which is toxic for leftist politics. Leftism isn’t about destruction but adding on to what we already have so it improves and uplifts all of us. Malthusianism on the left started with anarchists, not Marxists, and Marxists were historically pro-natalist. Shouldn’t we want higher birthrates simply as a sign of hope?

>>2445439
To be fair, the 1950s were the closest thing Americans had to a social Democratic welfare state if they were white.

>>2445870
Is there any other kind?

>>2445439
Welcome to politics, retard

>>2445876
Saying family is good or having kids is good and people should be secure enough to make a home is one thing. But saying we need high birth rates because it brings a bunch of technical benefits is speaking in the voice of the bourgeois state and the language of bourgeois instrumental rationality. Humans are not organisms in a petri dish. Marx would be horrified.

>>2445870
Most of them are but not all of them. You see it in America. It’s pretty deeply rooted in Western philosophy thanks to Hegel. Guys like Zizek and Badiou have a huge following in America too.

Now I’m not saying Christianity is bad or that it doesn’t have strengths. But this Christian heritage idpol is kinda like Zionism, where you don’t believe in it but you think it makes you better than everyone else.

>>2445439
How much longer before the Jacobin crowd leaves the DSA and starts joining the Solidarity Party (Catholic idpol party)?

>>2445958
TBH Badiou’s book on St. Paul is arguably his worst.

You’re 110% correct about the Hegel shit. Every time I see a leftist get super invested in Hegel they either become a reformist social democrat or a full-blown crypto-fash like Haz. Both are simply forms of western chauvinism.

>>2444834
>>2445373
Very interesting.

>>2444834
Even Richard Dawkins, the New Atheist fedora to end all New Atheist fedoras, is saying the West needs to re-embrace Christianity in order to save itself from ruin. How much longer until that asshat renounces all of his atheist thought and becomes Catholic too?

between pedos, red scare pod and residential schools, catholics have been getting way too good of a PR campaign lately, how many dead indian kids have they found under these schools in the US and Canada? will one more repost of Pope Francis fix that?


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