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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


 

Political implications of more Americans converting to Catholicism?

The American right was heavily associated with Evangelical idpol for the past 50 years. They became the cultural backbone of the GOP from the 80s to the late 2000s. Now it appears like a huge number of former Evangelicals are converting to Catholicism. I even know some ex-Mormons who are Catholic now.

At the same time, it seems like leftists are embracing Catholicism too. Remember when everyone was convinced Pope Francis was a secret socialist? Jacobin mag goes out of their way with appealing to Catholics as well (every other article of theirs is something along the lines of: “Move over pink-haired bipolar feminist queers, here’s why the Catholic Church are the REAL socialists!”). People like Dorothy Day are propped up even though her actual contributions to the American left were minimal and symbolic at best (the Catholic Worker also referred to the priests killed by /ourguys/ in Catalonia as “martyrs” which is disgusting). Not to mention, the Jacobin crowd seems very big on appealing to right-wing Catholic sentiments like complaining about birthrates being too low and proposing Bernie-style policies like universal healthcare to “fix” it, as if low birthrates are a problem to begin with.

But anyway, if Catholicism becomes a major cultural force in America in the next few years how do you see it affecting the political landscape?

Basically it's just another thing that's considered "trad", ie it's a fascist signal. Indistinguishable from other larpy fascist bullshit like paganism or orthodox christianity

>the Catholic Worker also referred to the priests killed by /ourguys/ in Catalonia as “martyrs” which is disgusting
Anarchotards are most certainly not “our guys” in any respect
>antifa flag
Oh I see, you must be confused. R/socialism is the place you were looking for

>>2409334
You think it will make the GOP more overtly fascistic?

>>2409326
Christ is winning.

>>2409371
It's the other way around, GOP is already becoming more fascist and looking for more "trad" signifiers, like Catholicism

>>2409371
>>2409377
>drumpft is le Hitler!!!!
Again you seem to be lost on your way to Reddit

>>2409379
Trump’s administration is openly pushing eugenics.

Nothing to support it, but I genuinely have a strong feeling its a form of camouflage for a lot of people.

File: 1753906209822.jpeg (346.8 KB, 564x1005, IMG_0010.jpeg)


Pay no heed.
Them clarifying that they’re Christians/retarded just makes them easier to avoid.

>Political implications of more Americans converting to Catholicism?

Ehhhh I see it as part of the broader trend of young people simultaneously looking for community, but developing a cultural cynicism towards their roots. I wrote an article ages ago that there's been kind of an abandonment of "Americanism" in favor of more foreign, often European ideas. Y'know, before (left-wing) Americans could positively refer to Marx as "like Thomas Jefferson" or the North Koreans as like the Founding Fathers; but the Left out here has fallen out of love with those historical roots whereas the Right is more obsessed with images of authoritarian empires over the "noble yeoman farmer".

I've been to some of the big Protestant churches out here; even the Prots I know say one of them is basically run by the family from The Righteous Gemstones. I've attended one of their sermons, and it felt like a guy in Khakis explaining to dudes who run pool supply stores how to increase morale while vaguely gesturing at the Bible.

Catholicism, say what you will, is steeped in ritual and aesthetics. And at a time when Capitalist modernity seems depressingly inescapable, it points to forms that are at least unlike what we have now; ritual, sacrament, so on.

I've got to start getting ready for work, but I can see a few things kind of playing a role in it:

>The growing need for community.

Evangelicalism was the perfect religion for America at its time just because of its emphasis on individualism. It's one's "personal relationship with Jesus", which essentially means cynical Christians could promote their own mind to the status of God. They'd imagine they're talking with angels, that whatever they do is right, God-blessed, the works. I've seen videos of a woman who nearly killed her entire family in her car (something about lighting a match while fueling up their gas tank) and rather than saying "Oh fuck, I'm sorry" she just shrugs and says "If we died, it's cause God wanted us to die there." Or, in one bizarre case, a woman wanted to know if she should divorce her husband and marry a younger man, then claimed God told her it was okay 'cause she opened the bible and found a line that said something like "Throw the old man out".

But people are more lonely than ever. They want community. And they want a deeper community than just having a guy in Khakis tell you to start a small business. Hence Catholicism, ancient as it is, provides at least a semblance of community and holiness that rises above "whatever I think is what God wants".

>The decline of Capitalist orthodoxy

I think partially prompting the change is the fact even those on the Right are not the giddy libertarians they once were. They don't give a fuck for some false-idea of liberal "freedom", in fact many of them want order and structure and authority. They don't even have the same enamored view of big business 'cause they see BMW adopt rainbow capitalism for pride month.

Catholicism has its own critiques of Capitalism, and it allows right wingers to "RETVRN" to an older tradition than Protestantism. Like, Catholic economic policy is about promoting a wider social good; Catholicism was one of the earliest adopters of the concept of "social justice" (albeit as an alternative to Socialism) and so that kind of speaks to some right wingers who, say, despise the LGBT community but have no problem with the concept of universal healthcare. Left-wingers meanwhile can appreciate a religion that at least attempts to critique Capitalism to a degree beyond "Well you should just be more charitable."

In essence, the largest bloc of people in the U.S. are folks who want the state to step in and regulate Capitalism, but are divided over social policy. The Catholic church can appear more moderate than the screaming baptists shouting "GOD HATES YOU! FUCKING DIE ALREADY!" while still approximating a need for society to step in to ensure just outcomes.

>>2409326
>tfw Papism
>tfw not Russian Orthodoxy or Antiochian Orthodoxy

They’re not converting.

They’re subverting.

Zero political implications because they aren't converting from Evangelicalism to Catholicism. They are converting to Evangelical Catholicism.

>>2409326
I don't see how it matters, it's mostly an aesthetic thing and cultural club, just like belonging to any other subculture.

>>2409326
Most catholic converts, specially in the USA are just protestants and fascists who like cathedrals and latin chants. They hate the Pope, have no communal spirit, don't love thy neighbor and despise most catholic traditions, specially if they come from non-white countries.
They should honestly just become WH40K fans if they just like the evil empire aesthetics and nothing else.

>>2409352
Catholic worker's movement is pacifist.

>>2409567
Evangelical Protestantism and Roman Catholicism are pretty distant from each other theologically. There is no “Evangelical Catholicism”.

>>2409570
>that tweet
Most lifelong Catholics are shitty people as well. American Catholics largely vote Republican.

>>2409570
Who decides what the “right” Catholicism is? The Catholic Church is officially against universal healthcare for instance.

>>2409575
Most Catholics don't really know the churches' doctrine very well, they just go to church because that's what they've always done and as a kind of therapeutic deism, this is the experience from my boomer parents.

>>2409591
And the “cafeteria Catholics” are the ones voting Democrat. The ones who are hardcore about their faith are voting Republican.

A true Catholic would never vote for a politician who supports abortion access, for instance.

>>2409567
>>2409567
That is true, American culture is imbued with the Protestant ethos so you get deracinated converts like pic related: >>2409570, Europeans and Latin Americans and other Catholic nationalities have a greater sense than any American convert, just like a white American claiming to be German would be laughed at by actual euros

>>2409574
No, Anglo-Catholicism is a large tradition. It's pretty influential on the neopagan and Satanist communities. I would particularly recommend Ronald Hutton's "The Triumph of the Moon". Also Spencer Sunshine's "Neo-Nazi Terrorism and Countercultural Fascism: The Origins and Afterlife of James Mason’s Siege." This shit is all operation Gladio type psyops, military intelligence and so on and they're not very creative so they operate out of the same Anglo-Catholic template everytime. A large amount of Americans are already Anglo-KKKatholics. It's the whole KKK new age bullshit originally based on a fetishised anti-Catholic bigotry.

>>2409574
You quite literally have no idea what you are talking about, sorry and your views are fundamentally idealist. Contemporary American Catholicism, excluding the one practiced by very recent FOB Latinos is utterly WASPinized.

>>2409615
The largest influence on American Catholicism was the Irish. Mainstream American Catholicism has always been very Irish in tradition, not WASP at all.

>>2409610
Word salad. Again, American Catholicism is fundamentally Irish. That’s why they always did low mass over extravagant Latin mass, etc.

>>2409616
>>2409617
Century-old outdated stereotypes ultimately based in ignorance on contemporary sociological developments. The biggest influence on contemporary American catholicism is Evangelical puritanism. Every single European and Latin American Catholic will tell you that they can smell the creepy Evangelical stench from a mile away that surrounds you average American Catholic.

>>2409621
Demonstrate this with actual examples, please. What elements of American Catholicism are “Evangelical” exactly? Show them.

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Instead of thinking of implications think of whether something that benefits the masses can be done about it and I'd say "lets fucking shill liberation theology" is the answer to that question.

>>2409623
How do we do that, exactly?

>>2409627
the same way anything else is shilled man, just do it

File: 1753916413025.png (535.9 KB, 547x767, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2409623
i dont care about "the masses"

>>2409622
The very high share of American catholics that have identical views with evangelicals if you control for FOB Latinos and/or immigrants at opinion surveys. The very prominent presence of culture war catholics and even sede-vacantists in the American sphere that is in open tension if not dispute with the holy see itself. The general adoption of evangelical media culture, even megachurch aesthetics and modern sermon practices, just to name a few examples that are explicitly distinct from Catholic communities outside of the US and a direct influence from evangelicalism.

File: 1753916674471.png (686.84 KB, 640x762, 1749865698729371.png)

>>2409633
>We must use Marxism, which is positive in spirit, to overcome liberalism, which is negative. A Communist should have largeness of mind and he should be staunch and active, looking upon the interests of the revolution as his very life and subordinating his personal interests to those of the revolution; always and everywhere he should adhere to principle and wage a tireless struggle against all incorrect ideas and actions, so as to consolidate the collective life of the Party and strengthen the ties between the Party and the masses; he should be more concerned about the Party and the masses than about any private person, and more concerned about others than about himself. Only thus can he be considered a Communist.

>>2409636
>The very high share of American catholics that have identical views with evangelicals
Such as?

>>2409636
>The general adoption of evangelical media culture, even megachurch aesthetics and modern sermon practices, just to name a few examples that are explicitly distinct from Catholic communities outside of the US and a direct influence from evangelicalism.

What “media” are you talking about? EWTN, which is liberal Catholic at most? What “mega churches”? You mean cathedrals, which are what Catholic Churches have looked like for centuries? What “modern sermon practices” are you referring to, specifically?

Your post is nothing but hot air and broad assumptions without any real concrete examples. It seems to me like you’re just trying to pull a “NOT REAL CATHOLICISM” and “IT’s THE PROTESTANTS’ FAULT” without truly backing up your claim.

>>2409640
is that from mao? i would agree but i dont have a party, and cant consider myself a communist.

>>2409379
The GOP has been on the fascist track long before trump lol

>>2409644
Funfact: Evangelicalism isn't just spreading in the US. While it's outright spreading in Latin America through sheer conversion with Guatemala and soon Brazil becoming evangelical nations, Europe is actually now re-importing this brand of evangelicalized brand of Catholicism like those in far-right circles in France or Spain that are importing the same culture war battles and even outright opposition to the church when it comes to issues such as migration where the papacy is considered to be too 'lenient' i. e. too pussy-whipped.

File: 1753917098348.png (1.33 MB, 2048x2048, wol.png)

>>2409648
Good attitude. In china people not in a party call themselves "communist supporters" (if they feel affinity towards communist ideas, that is). I think that in the case of not having a party its good to be an active communist supporter that supports communism not only in agreement but also in action.

>>2409647
Can you explain to me why the American surpreme court has a supermajority of catholic judges, including among conservative justices?

File: 1753917299769-0.png (2.56 MB, 1280x834, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1753917299769-1.png (3.01 MB, 1280x960, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2409647
Not him but a "megachurch" is a specific thing that exists within a Protestant context. It's a phenomenon largely unique to America wherein a giant space that's basically equal parts conference center and shopping mall is given a Christian veneer over what is in practice basically having church service in a high school auditorium. They treat Christianity more as a front for advertising which means that every tacky piece of flair is considered legitimate in services, from Christian rock bands to Christian skateboard ministries and motorcycle clubs. All semblance of church doctrine meanwhile is generally discarded in favor of generic "feel good" messages

>>2409647
>What “media” are you talking about? EWTN, which is liberal Catholic at most?

This is a straight-up lie. Prominent EWTN hosts also appear on evangelical media outlets for example.

File: 1753917603989.jpg (1.35 MB, 1920x1080, catholic megachurch.jpg)

Ah yes the traditional Cathedral of St. Mathews Parish (totally not a megachurch).

>>2409652
Btw, thanks for bringing China up but one other feature is that American 'Catholics' are also routinely triggered by the Holy See cooperating with the Chinese government for example.

>>2409665
Like, didn't Vance and even Rubio at some point literally bring that up during their dealings with Francis?

>>2409617
These new JD Vance type converts aren't Irish.

>>2409657
> All semblance of church doctrine meanwhile is generally discarded in favor of generic "feel good" messages.

Everything else is true but that one part has always been the case everywhere.

>>2409662
>facade covering sheet metal roof

Any demographic breakdown on this at all? Would be curious to know a political belief breakdown (are these fash doing it, moderate reps, libs, or other?), also a demographic breakdown (are these young? Old? Men looking to become more trad, women looking to become more trad too, or both?)

I hate namefags but CPUSA has a point, the atomization and destruction of community in America has made people desperate for any sense of belonging.

>>2409690
No he fucking doesn't have a point. People with an Evangelical background converting to Catholicism isn't a sign that the latter is gaining ground, it's a sign it has reachedaa point that makes it near indistinguishable from the former in contemporary American society.

>>2409692
Was talking more about converting from nothing to Catholicism. Again, more info than "people are converting" would be nice.

>>2409693
>about converting from nothing to Catholicism

Not happening.

>>2409680
The Irish had a major influence on American Catholicism, arguably the largest and most prominent. That’s the main reason American Catholicism “feels different” from Catholicism in continental Europe. LatAm Catholicism is almost entirely Spanish and Portuguese influenced.

>>2409654
Why is being right-wing somehow outside of Catholic teaching? Catholics were the original anti-abortion activists in America. Catholics have always stood against LGBTQ rights. Catholics have always been largely critical of feminism. And don’t even get me started on how Catholics are viciously anti-communists and American Catholics were the biggest supporters of Joe McCarthy in the 1950s. Hell, the Kennedy family was pro-McCarthy.

>>2409650
Why are you obsessed with calling centuries-long Catholic teaching a “culture war” as if this kind of thing is completely outside of Catholic teaching? Are you this retarded that you think American Catholics would all be Berniecrats if it wasn’t for Evangelical influence?

>>2409658
Name those specific hosts. Who are they? Frank Pavone? He’s former Operation Rescue who’s been a quintessential attention whore from day one.

>we need to appeal to "the masses" regardless of whether it actually has to do with the proletariat alone or not
i hate democracy brained amerifats so much

File: 1753921065484.gif (1.43 MB, 640x360, 1661218899093.gif)

>5500 is the highest number in a decade
LOL statistically irrelevant

>>2409597
>A true Catholic would never vote for a politician who supports abortion access, for instance.
They wouldn't vote for people who consider empathy a sin either.

>>2409707
>They wouldn't vote for people who consider empathy a sin either.
t. moron who hasn't read the Bible or even interacted with Catholics.

>>2409698
Holy fuck, this retard actually is an unironic Irish exceptionalist, lmao.

>>2409700
>Are you this retarded that you think American Catholics would all be Berniecrats if it wasn’t for Evangelical influence?

Absolutely. In fact we have plenty evidence for this. German Catholics for example are very aligned in their support for the German welfare state and don't have assimilated elements of American prosperity gospel as much as their Evangelical Catholic counterparts in the US(neither have actual Irish Catholics btw).

If you were an actual materialist you would understand that the material conditions in a given country have a stronger bearing on religious/reliopoltical attitudes, even across different doctrines and faiths than some abstract idea of a doctrine.

>>2409572
So they're faggots?

>>2409710
>German welfare state
Very communist!

>>2409712
Bernie is not a communist dumbass.

File: 1753921428069.jpg (49.07 KB, 479x435, 1401239557597.jpg)

Realizing this retarded thread is going to be one of those "Catholics are actually wholesome chungus smol beans and Jesus would've said #transrights and all the meanie bible-thumping Catholics are actually the ones who are going to hell" discussions.

>>2409709
I was born and raised Catholic, I went to a Catholic elementary school, and obviously Catholics vote for people who deviate from church doctrine. I was just pointing out that if "true Catholics" would never vote Democrat because of abortion (which isn't true, many Catholics vote Dem) then they wouldn't vote Republican either for the huge list of shit they're doing that violates basic Christian principles. In reality of course they vote for both.

>>2409715
Shut the fuck up pedophile. The spread of evangelicism and evangelicalized religions as well as the desecularization of politics is a topic that merits a thread.

>>2409710
Yeah Catholics may all be socially reactionary to some degree or another but there's a pretty big difference between Catholic Social Teaching and the Prosperity Gospel followed by most American Catholics

>>2409719
>you're a pedophile for shitting on religion
Do Americans really?

its hilarious to see morons ITT treat religion as a doctrine like it was centuries ago when today its literally just larp and vibes

>>2409723
they called you a pedophile for using that image

>>2409698
My entire point is that these new converts aren't American American-Catholics (Irish), they are American Anglo-Catholics.

>>2409727
Bruh WTF? It's literally some random reaction pic.

>>2409710
>Absolutely. In fact we have plenty evidence for this. German Catholics for example are very aligned in their support for the German welfare state and don't have assimilated elements of American prosperity gospel as much as their Evangelical Catholic counterparts in the US(neither have actual Irish Catholics btw).

Because the Catholic Church in Germany is exceptionally liberal. Ratzinger was hated by most other German Catholics.

>>2409707
How do you know that? Most practicing Catholics would consider abortion a bigger “lack of empathy” than denying people healthcare.

>>2409719
>erm religion X and religion X offshoot are different things
every religion can be formally reduced to a simple private faith different from its manifestation as a source of political power, this hardly says anything

>>2409728
How are they “Anglo”? What makes them “Anglo”? Again, the influence of Irish culture on American Catholicism can’t be dented. Irish culture is hella Anglo-influenced anyway.

>>2409732
Republicans don't just deny people healthcare, they operate a giant concentration camp system and openly gloat about being cruel, among a long list of other heinous shit. It's a moot point though because lots of Catholics vote for both parties.

>>2409709
The Catholic vote in the US is split almost 50/50 because of abortion and queer issues.

It’s funny, because when American Catholics were overwhelmingly Democrat the Dems were tougher on communism than the GOP.

>>2409731
>Because the Catholic Church in Germany is exceptionally liberal.

Exactly, and the contemporary Catholics in the US are exceptionally evangelicalized, almost beyond recognition for exactly the same underlying reason.

Thanks for agreeing. It took a while but you got it in the end. Congratulations.

>>2409737
American Catholics still voted for George W Bush in 2004 despite the Church being against the Iraq invasion.

>>2409742
>and the contemporary Catholics in the US are exceptionally evangelicalized, you have yet to prove that:

1. The right-wing attitudes of American Catholics are entirely or mostly due to Evangelical influence

And:

2. That the conservativeness of American Catholicism is unique to American Catholics and not found elsewhere.

How do you explain the Church’s extremist anti-communism during the 19th and most of the 20th century?

>>2409737
Shut the fuck up you stupid DUMBASS Canadian. Thanks for derailing the discussion towards pointless blue team/red team shit.

>>2409737
>hurr durr let's reduce the acts of politicians to being le bad or le good
dumbfuck

>>2409742
The German Church is only one example.

How is the right-wing nature of Catholics in America specific to America? You don’t see Catholics in the Philippines supporting communism, do you?

Honestly a lot of people just like Catholic aesthetics and the whole confessional thing is like free therapy. So it doesnt really mean they are more religious or anything inherently.

>>2409737
They don’t do that because they’re evil but because they’re bought off by the insurance companies.

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>>2409756
You know, The Sopranos talks about this.

>>2409753
>The German Church is only one example.
Ok, what about when the French and Italian social medias exploded in laughter and mockery at this obviously by gaudi Evangelical performatism inspired appearance by Marco Rubio on a prominent network, one of America's most notorious 'catholics'?

Can you explain to me how German Catholicism can be uniquely liberal but American Catholicism can't be uniquely evangelical, both as a function of the material conditions in both societies? You have yet to come up with an explanation for that.

>>2409745
That's exactly my point. Church doctrine has very little influence on how Catholics actually vote.

To anyone who thinks American Catholicism used to be “progressive” and was only corrupted by the influence of Evangelicals, I would highly recommend looking up the story of Bella Dodd.

She was a former CPUSA member who was very active in union organizing during the Party’s heyday. She ended up being purged for Browderism in the late 1940s. Soon after, she met with Fulton Sheen, reverted back to Catholicism, and ended up turning state and snitching on multiple people during McCarthyism after Sheen told her to. She wasn’t alone either. There were other ex-communists like Louis Budenz who did the same: become Catholic and turn into an anti-communist rat.

>>2409762
You still haven’t made a case that American Catholicism is Evangelical. All you did was claim the culture war that American Catholics participate in is foreign to their Church teachings when it isn’t in the slightest. American Catholics would still be anti-communist, anti-feminist, anti-abortion, anti-queer and vote Republican with or without Evangelical influence.

>>2409759
I unironically never noticed that Carmella just treats the church as free therapy until this fucking post

>>2409769
>>2409763
Can you liberals go maybe like 10 minutes without defaulting to your dysfunctional red team vs blue team / progressive vs. conservative dichotomies?

>>2409763
They voted for Bush on the basis that abortion was a bigger issue than the war. “War kills some innocent people but abortion only kills innocent people” or something like that. At least, that’s what I remember from those days (I’m 37).

>>2409756
>Honestly a lot of people just like Catholic aesthetics and the whole confessional thing is like free therapy.
Reality: Therapy is just secular Church Confessionals

>>2409591
lol sounds like my boomer parents as well. They like all of the pomp and circumstance. My dad, who was raised catholic and hates the pope regardless of which pope it is, understands that it's all bullshit and the stories are heavily embellished and/or pure fiction, but he finds it nostalgic seeing as he was raised going to a catholic church. I remember once he, for some reason, tried to argue that the church isn't against birth control. My mom goes simply because it makes her feel good and she's not much for critical thinking. Then there are my siblings, such as my sister (on birth control btw) who loves all of the decorations and lore about saints and such. Sends her kids to catholic school because it's one of the only private schools around here. Pretty sure they (the adults, of course) all vote republican.

I'm just going to stop typing here, but yeah, my experience matches yours.

>>2409773
I am not seeing any prominent German, French and Italian catholic individuals or organizations collaborating with openly evangelical lobbying groups to capture entire government branches in order to implement that agenda or an agenda that is in open defiance to the papacy like those concerning migration.

>>2409748
yet he isn't claiming the first, so you can't get him to prove something he isn't claiming

>>2409753
how about most of the churches, even those in the americas but not the US? why is the anti-human element of catholicism in the US significantly higher compared to catholics in almost every other place on earth?

>>2409726
>a doctrine like it was centuries ago when today its literally just larp and vibes
Catholics: "slavery is evil…no wait its good,…wait no, WAIT,"
>>2409758
>They don’t do that because they’re evil
if you soyface at GK Chesterton your soul has been lost

>>2409537
the church of ziggerism

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>>2409623
>>2409632
>>2409640
>Tailism
Anons will decry social democracy as "capitalism with a human face", mock all stripes of utopian socialist "theory" and thought as infantile, and revulse at the preversion and revision of Marx for less then revolutionary ends. But put a funny hat on any of it, and anons will argue it's "necessity and practicality", towards its "progressiveness and usefulness", till the end of days.

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>>2409895
i like this lenin quote better

>>2409901
That's a good ass find, thanks anon. I've never read this speech by him.

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>>2409374
>Christ is winning.

Question: if right-wing American Catholics are simply crypto-Evangelicals, wouldn't it also be fair to say that left-wing American Catholics are simply crypto-Quakers? Every single "leftyCath" I know buys into the pacifism and "consistent life ethic" thing whereby they're anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, anti-gun, and anti-war (I don't think I would call them anti-imperialist though because their definition of imperialism is the liberal one). They seem to care more about the peace-and-love aspect of Catholicism than the actual sacraments and Church teachings.

>>2409786
And what exactly are the main issues Catholics and Evangelicals join forces on? Oh I don't know, abortion bans, maybe? Birth control bans? Attacks on LGBTQ rights? Attacks on feminism? These aren't things that span across most Christian doctrines regardless of sect?

>or an agenda that is in open defiance to the papacy like those concerning migration.

There are plenty of European Catholics who oppose migration too, you know? It's not an "American Evangelical" thing at all.

>>2409793
His entire argument is that Catholicism in America is only right-wing because it's been infiltrated or influenced by Evangelical Protestantism, which isn't true. Catholicism in the US was always right-wing, anti-feminist, and very very very anti-Marxist.

>>2409795
>why is the anti-human element of catholicism in the US significantly higher compared to catholics in almost every other place on earth?
I don't believe it is. Ex-Archbishop Vigano who was extremely right-wing and he's Italian. Cardinal Sara (also very right-wing) is from Guinea. It's not hard to find Catholic priests and bishops in other countries who hate migrants, believe women should shut up and obey men, praise fascism, you get the idea.

>>2409929
>Every single "leftyCath" I know buys into the pacifism and "consistent life ethic" thing whereby they're anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, anti-gun, and anti-war
And those same Dorothy Day-style "Lefty Caths" were the ones behind the original anti-abortion movement. Evangelicals didn't become anti-abortion until the early 80s with Reagan and the Moral Majority. Meanwhile, Catholics were always anti-choice and made the anti-choice movement a thing to begin with.

>>2409929
Quakerism is just New Age Buddhism for Christians. The same literal idealist retardation just with Jesus.

Paradoxically, Catholicism is more materialist.

>>2409963
>>2409963
>>2409963
>I don't believe it is. Ex-Archbishop Vigano who was extremely right-wing and he's Italian. Cardinal Sara (also very right-wing) is from Guinea. It's not hard to find Catholic priests and bishops in other countries who hate migrants, believe women should shut up and obey men, praise fascism, you get the idea.
i didn't say there was no anti-human element in catholicism, but it is factually lower on average in almost every country besides the US, it'd help if you read what we said before responding to it


>>2410018
>i didn't say there was no anti-human element in catholicism
read before you post, please

>>2409735
Because they're Evolian traditionalist chuds. They take Catholic aesthetics overtop of a Calvinist settler-colonialism. Read into Mark Sedgwick's "Against the Modern World: Traditionalism and the Secret Intellectual History of the Twentieth Century." It's like how Isis is more Christian than Islamic. Islamo-fascism was largely a weapon constructed by American Empire and Islamic compradors to control their working class. It didn't really emerge organically out of the various national bourgeoisie. The Iranian branch of Islamic reaction is still bad of course, but it wasn't constructed as a weapon to justify imperialism and doesn't bear the same traits.

>>2409326
>Siri, now compare to the born Catholics who no longer practice!

>>2410027
>Because they're Evolian traditionalist chuds.
American Catholics read Evola? Please.

>They take Catholic aesthetics overtop of a Calvinist settler-colonialism.

What? Catholicism is the most settler-colonial of every world religion. Why does that element only (allegedly) exist in the US and not in LatAm where white Latinos still very much hold a racist/colonial worldview?

>>2410034
There are plenty of born-Catholics who are also right-wing.

>>2410058
>There are plenty of born-Catholics who are also right-wing.
I think he meant asking how many born Catholics are leaving the Church.

>>2409977
Watching this, I find it telling how she (former Quaker) was drawn to Catholicism because she wanted something more from her faith, like Quakerism was empty. I've heard most Quakers don't even believe in God at all and simply use their time at the meeting house as a political soapbox. Liberal social justice shit is their religion. How is that any different from any other secular ethical philosophy?

>>2409326
>Now it appears like a huge number of former Evangelicals are converting to Catholicism. I even know some ex-Mormons who are Catholic now.

Eeeeesh, I don't know if most of these people are ex-Evangelicals. Evangelical Christianity largely stresses an individualistic "personal relationship with God" over doctrine, dogma, or tradition. It's a very anti-intellectual religion - "the Holy Spirit speaks to me" is all they care about. Catholicism, on the other day, has a very intellectual tradition. A lot of Catholic school kids learn philosophy as a part of the curriculum. Catholicism is heavily rooted in all the things Evangelicals don't like.

So in essence, I would say that even if we assume what you're arguing is true, the real reason for the turn to Catholicism has more to do with Protestants wanting to be more intellectual about their faith.

Why would any leftist in their right mind become Catholic? Western Civilization IS the Catholic Church plus Rome. Any “leftist” who upholds Rome is upholding centuries of western colonialism and imperialism.


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