/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2433337
>you mean "capitalists" then, not your jargon.
The term capitalist was also invented by marx you dolt.

>>2433337
>so proletarians are "those who produce offspring"
Yes but "Proletarii" in Rome was a census category for those who did not own or owned very little property.

>>2433375
>Social Democracy existed in Britain only very briefly under Harold Wilson. This country was 'socdem' for as little as 2 years.
Interested, why this period and not 1945-51?

>>2433860
>The Hollantse (German: holländische) Mercurius uses "capitalists" in 1633 and 1654 to refer to owners of capital.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
so, wrong again. look under the "etymology" section.
>>2433862
>Proletarii
their children were listed as viable property. the truly propertyless were called "capite censi":
>Those who owned 11,000 assēs (coins) or fewer fell below the lowest category for military service, and their children—prōlēs (offspring)—were listed instead of property; hence the name proletarius (producer of offspring). Roman citizen-soldiers paid for their own horses and arms, and fought without payment for the commonwealth, but the only military contribution of a proletarius was his children, the future Roman citizens who could colonize conquered territories. Officially, propertyless citizens were called capite censi because they were "persons registered not as to their property…but simply as to their existence as living individuals, primarily as heads (caput) of a family."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletariat

So there aren't any asylum seekers/refugees at this hotel. They appear to just be going to it for shits and giggles to do what exactly? Are just all hotels bad? Have these lot just associated the concept of a hotel with migration now?

>>2433868
You missed out half of this;
> "Capitalism" is derived from capital, which evolved from capitale, a late Latin word based on caput, meaning "head"—which is also the origin of "chattel" and "cattle" in the sense of movable property (only much later to refer only to livestock).
So it is actually about having a head which is about capitalists being smart.

>>2433867
A few reasons, the simplest being that the Attlee government was really national-developmentalist. For all the hype behind the NHS, spending on warfare far outstripped spending on health, education, and general social welfare. Wilson's first term was of a similar outlook (though with a general retrenchment in defence spending, sadly not including culling Polaris), while briefly in the 74-76 period, with the social contract and a genuinely radical manifesto, there was a pivot to general social concern. (Which never really had buy-in from Healey or the treasury and which ultimately collapsed under Callaghan.)

>>2433703
> if you agree that correct and incorrect spellings exist
I don't agree with that.

>>2434066
Yes but Attlee nationalised the commanding heights of the economy. Wilson did not.

I feel something important is missing from the "social democracy" debate, and that's that although its obviously not socialism, capitalists don't get to introduce it for free. Capitalists don't have a "social democracy" button they can press on and off willy nilly to "save" capital. Social Democracy can save capital in the short term but begins to cripple capitalism in the long run, hence the viciousness of the backlash Thatcher led.

In the end, it doesn't matter if its not socialism, state owned industry, housing, health care ect will begin to push the private (and especially finance) sector into the background and leads to a slow withering of the capitalist class. This is why it was necessary for neoliberalism to reverse it as quicklly as possible.

>>2434143
>there are no correct forms of spelling
then why are you currently spelling correctly? you are contradicting yourself. if a child was ungrammatical in school, do you think its wrong for a teacher to correct them?

We need to fucking dissolve "Stand Up to Racism" they are an active fucking liability.

>>2434405
Social Democracy aka the Post-war Consensus only existed because Eastern Europe and Northern Eurasia were locked behind COMECON. If they had been market capitalist states with free trade it never would have been able to function. It was a walled garden whose walls were broken by Japanese Knotweed in the 1970s (I have seen data showing that Japanese Steel production alone matched 50% of the entirety of capitalist Europe).

>>2434691
we are a colony of the american empire, so its non-negotiable, im afraid.

>>2434691
No. Out of all the trot rape cults they are by far the funniest and most visible. They're also actively radicalising the British population against Starmer which is a good thing.

>>2434142
Sounds based?

socialist workers party stand in the city centre.
posters say "refugees welcome", "defy the supreme court" and "free palestine". nothing about class issues.

>>2434749
You still bought the newspaper like a good little boy though.

>>2434757
no i didnt?

>>2434644
>if a child was ungrammatical in school, do you think its wrong for a teacher to correct them?
Yes, obviously.

>>2434769
wait, why do you keep spelling words correctly and using punctuation? the only way to defeat the system of logic is to be an illiterate retard, so try taking your own advice.

>>2434749
That's the geopolitik obsessed

>>2434771
gud point. ogey iwll tlk too u liek dis frm naw awn, chears. :)

>>2434749
SWP are an active liability, like their fronts ("Stand Up to Racism", "Love Music Hate Racism", all of them). They are parasitic on any legitimate organising meanwhile acting like a caricature of a degenerate student lefty. An actual leech of an organisation.

https://x.com/WillKingston/status/1956282899847680381/photo/1

putting this in britpol because this guy is a chief spectator/gb news hack lol

>>2434980
High quality journalism

>>2434980
topkek.
The thing about the map always made me since a kid doubt that spaniard cunt who said he found america though, what did the russians think was there? honestly telling me they never noticed the americas? okay.

>>2434846
Hilarious that they still refer to Ukraine as an inter-imperialist war.

Maintaining the 'British Workers' line until the end.

>>2434980
tbf to him, the Russians and Americans never treat the proximity between Alaska and Siberia as a potential threat to their national security, making it seem like there is a considerable distance between the landmass.

>>2434983
TBF though it's not like siberia was highly populated at the time. They probably just were like 'great probably more siberia over there, who cares'

>>2434983
According to reddit "Russia only reached the Pacific in the 1640's, and by then not only had Spain discovered the New World, but also the Portuguese, the French, the English, and the Dutch had all set up colonies because it is SO MUCH easier and faster and safer to launch across the Atlantic and navigate West, than it is to set off across untamed and unsettled Tundra wildlands."

the novara media crowd are a strange lot:
>shoplifting has increased
<legalise vagrancy!

>>2435045
🤣 as per usual, this labour party only fall slightly short of the tories of being the worst of all possible options. reeves wants to raise taxes while simultaneously cutting regulation. so its big business and big government vs the public.

>>2435008
Why do you think shoplifting has increased?

Up the RA

>>2434691
How are they a liability if you don’t mind me asking ?

>>2434144
I don't put too much weight on the importance of nationalisation to social democracy as such. In any case, what's more interesting is that his motivation was focused on national efficiency rather than on anti-capitalism. (Hence why Steel, for example, was bought at a very generous price. The idea wasn't "the workers will finally own the steel industry, fuck those capitalist blood-suckers!" it was "You're shit capitalists, you're running this industry into the ground, government managers will do better. Here's more money than you deserve: go play in the traffic")

>>2434692
>>2434405
How does this model explain the existence of vestigial social-democratic parties? That is, parties like the SNP 2007-2015 or NZ Labour 1999-2008 which, while unable to shift the dial on the neoliberal macroeconomic consensus, break with it directionally.
e.g. SNP brought back universalist services like free tuition and prescriptions and have (tepidly) raised income tax rates in Scotland (although ultimately the party under Sturgeon turned to neoliberal sludge), NZ Labour brought Air NZ and NZ rail back into real public ownership, restored a reasonably progressive income tax system, abolished workfare (at the same time Blair was creating it!), created a new combo wealth-fund and pension scheme, restored legal recognition of trade unions (!) and generally ended a stream of radical neoliberal reforms that had run unbroken from 1984-1999.

None of that's radical second coming stuff, it doesn't quite raise to the level of social democracy, but it's a plausible attempt when contrasted with Blair or especially with Starmer, where the enemy was always to their left.

>>2435106
well if we look at the stats, its not exactly astronomical, so its a nominal increase but cant harm profits beyond the standard rate (so in the first place, shoplifting is a talking point, not a serious issue). secondly, videos of shoplifting appears to either feature homeless tramps raiding shops or urban youf brazenly and openly picking what they want - so who are shoplifters? lumpen - its not a working class epidemic, so standard of living isnt "causing" an increase of crime - its a simple breakdown of law and order (this is also because police will NOT respond to shoplifting calls, and security guards are not legally able to apprehend shoplifters, so the shoplifters perceive weakness in the system). so to me, its just part of the decline of civility, where theft is normalised (the police similarly refuse to investigate burglaries in london despite us living in a surveilance state). a solution for shoplifting would be to grant security guards extra powers over the resources of a shop so as to be able to kick people out or search them.

>>2435045
If the government was remotely competent the first thing it would've done is scrap national insurance and fold it into the income tax system, which you concurrently reform to be less of a baroque nightmare. The current system is a gigantic scam where workers pay NICs but wealthy pensioners, shareholders, landlords, etc, do not. If you did that, you could cut the effective income tax paid by the average worker and still wind up with more revenue (and a much less complex tax system) than before.

But that requires being a little brave: wealthy pensioners and landlords won't like this. Sure, workers will like it, and they'll demand to keep their tax cut, and there's more of them… but… it's scary. So instead they took the idiot-coward option: try to find marginal savings from winter fuel payments, disability payments, etc. The problem is that nobody benefits from that change - workers don't want you freezing their gran or re-running Aktion T4 no matter how you try to sell it. The idiot coward option is also the unpopular option.

The thing about 'Starmerism' is that even as a right-wing government it's a patently stupid one. I could run a better late-neoliberal early-war-economy shitshow than this.

>>2436027
laffin at a clip of some guy getting thrown out of greggs being labelled as 'daily mail EXCLUSIVE'

>>2436090
You are misidentifying the root causes though, it's not that Labour is cowardly per se, it's that they work for those wealthy elite, not for you. It's not that they're incompetent, they're malicious.

>>2436027
northerners are like this, i went up there once and the greggs are full of security guards. ridiculous excuses for people.

>>2436136
That's partly it, as is the fact UK industry is mostly parasitism, but a competent right wing government would at least set the bourgeoisie against the pensioners. It's absolutely an institutional failure of our politics that our income tax system is such a mess. Ditch the cut-out tax dodges and cut the rates and even capitalists gain.

>>2436003
>I don't put too much weight on the importance of nationalisation to social democracy as such. In any case, what's more interesting is that his motivation was focused on national efficiency rather than on anti-capitalism. (Hence why Steel, for example, was bought at a very generous price. The idea wasn't "the workers will finally own the steel industry, fuck those capitalist blood-suckers!" it was "You're shit capitalists, you're running this industry into the ground, government managers will do better. Here's more money than you deserve: go play in the traffic")
Tbf this is the ideolgoical basis of Fabianism; that capitalism is evil because it is inefficient, and such inefficiency causes poverty, which is morally evil. Ergo capitalism is morally evil and must be replaced with state socialism.

Isn't it interesting that as soon as the thread hits the bump limit the resident retard, whom the jannies seem to tolerate, is nowhere to be seen.

>>2436922
>>2436922
>>2436922
>>2436922

New

>>2417627
Despite me hating Boomers, 16/17yrs shouldn't be able to vote, tho I also believe that if your 80 or over you should have your voting rights stripped or given to a family member who will vote on your behaf