>>2417985>>2417983samefag.
don't make it too obvious.
>>2418012All from
https://t.me/ukr_leaks_eng, from ex Ukrainian chief intelligence officer, Prozorov, who ukrainians tried to kill in Moscow. Anyhow, you can search them on internet, lazy ass chums.
>>2418022wow, such a faggot. better go here
https://t.me/truexanewsua and get your credible sources.
or better, go to reddit, and medusa, then.
>>2418005Actually I do know someone based in France who isn’t Russian but speaks the language with clients and some Ukrainian tried to police them by telling them to stop speaking Russian on the phone in public.
It seems like Ukrainians are genuinely dedicated to their laws banning Russian, even outside of their own nation, at least until some camouflaged men jump out of an ambulance to grab them.
>>2418062Also I dunno if
>>2418007 is true, but despite the obviously large participation of Ukrainian men in this conflict with many not surviving very long at the front, there is this bizarre fixation on the Azov Battalion fascists who surrendered at the Azovstal plant in Mariupol where you just see random billboards and banners demanding the release of the “defenders of Mariupol” and claiming they’re captives as though Russia is illegally refusing to repatriate them and thus fighting to the bitter end is the only chance to save the Azovites and presumably everyone should be motivated to die for that.
Incidentally it’s quite funny that you get nafoid here claiming that denazification is a lie because Russia supposedly already sent the Azovites home.
>>2418055>How real is the nazi problem in Ukraine?big. mostly in the western areas.
https://archive.ph/AsjM6hundreds of streets, statues, town squares, busts, plaques, and all sort of urban decorative components there. huge chunks of what once was civil-paramilitary formations that appeared after the 2014 coup (many soldiers deserted from the UA army, thus the ukrainian state needed this) were gradually incorporated as full army members, with its generals, and officials (see picrel), all associated with parties winning mayoral offices, and some other minor positions.
5/8/2025
>Zelensky is obsessed with power and has lost his political instinct, writes Neue Zürcher Zeitung.
>Zelensky will not be able to win in the confrontation with Russia.
>He "looks indecisive, maneuvering between the expectations of foreign partners, civil society and the old power structures," the publication notes.https://www.nzz.ch/gesellschaft/fernsehstar-kriegspraesident-und-machtpolitiker-der-wandelbare-wolodimir-selenski-ld.1896267(under a paywall)
(free access:
https://archive.ph/9mdwG)
>>2418058 I guess I was naively holding out hope for that just being Russian propaganda
>>2418059I tried anon, I think I got pretty close, but didn't have enough time to change her 😔
>>2418062Yeah this seems to be the truth of it unfortunately
>>2418081Crazy shit. She was from the east too ironically. I remember her saying her dad was pro russia, which I thought was odd at the time, but in hindsight probably just meant he wasn't a nazi and didn't consider russians to be subhumans or smt
>In Ukraine, the number of school graduates has decreased by 75 thousand people or 26% in a year.
>In Ukraine, the number of school graduates has decreased by 75 thousand people or 26% in a year.According to Deputy Minister of Education Vinnitsky, the number of graduates who passed the national multi-subject test (NMT) this year is 208 thousand people.
>Last year there were 283,370.
>As previously reported, Ukrainian teenagers are being taken abroad en masse. According to Deputy Minister of Education Vinnitsky, the number of graduates who passed the national multi-subject test (NMT) this year is 208 thousand people.Last year there were 283,370.
As previously reported, Ukrainian teenagers are being taken abroad (
https://t.me/ukr_leaks_eng/20291) en masse.
>>2418115kek, DM the X lpol account owner and ask him to harass him.
but I bet he won't do it for free.
>>2418184The essence of antifascism consists of struggling against fascism while supporting democracy; in other words, of struggling not for the destruction of capitalism, but to force capitalism to renounce its "dictatorial form".
Democracy will transform itself into dictatorship as soon as is necessary, the political forms which capital gives itself do not depend on the action of the working class any more than they depend on the intentions of the bourgeoisie.
>>2418306This feels a bit unfair to Stalin, he was always trying to prevent counter revolution, many lib historians claim it was his paranoia in this regard that caused him to do so many purges n shit.
Hard to say where he could have done better in this regard. Maybe it was something outside of his personal capacity to prevent.
My point is it's the circumstances that make the events traspire as they did and while both Stalin and Mao were hugely influential, there is factors at play beyond their personal competency in this area
>Estonia Honors Ukrainian Nazi Collaborators
>The Baltic Defence College (Tartu, Estonia) is currently hosting the “In Storms of Steel” exhibition, which glorifies the Waffen SS Division Galicia.
>Created by Azov’s 3rd Assault Brigade, the exhibition showcases not only photographs of UPA involved in the ethnic cleansing of Poles during WWII, but also members of the Waffen SS Division Galicia — men who swore allegiance to Hitler, served under Himmler, and defended the interests of Nazi Germany, including by helping suppress anti‑Nazi resistance movements in Slovakia and the former Yugoslavia.
>Even more disturbing, among the photos of Division reenactors is neo‑Nazi Aleksei Kozhemyakin, known as “Kolovrat” and “Barsik,” a platoon commander in the 3rd Assault Brigade.
>He is a Russian far‑right extremist, reportedly came to Ukraine in 2015 and joined Azov. According to the Sova Center, Kozhemyakin served several years in prison for attacking a man from Azerbaijan and was also suspected of desecrating the Jewish Cultural Center in Syktyvkar.
>And now, the photograph of neo‑Nazi Aleksei Kozhemyakin and Nazi collaborators graces the walls of the Baltic Defence Collegedamn, but some polelols politicians are happy about salive urine!
>>2417991 >>2418339>bordigaso, he should hear a failed partocrat from a capitalist nation that never had a revolution and the biggest achievement is empty theorycrafting ?.
no thanks, once there is real tangible experience from guiding a consolidated revolution to guide the share of wisdom then he can talk.
>>2418342maybe you can go to the frontline and
A C C E L E R A T E things up a notch?
>>2418399>no one cares about that fascist collaborator that amounted to nothing after the defeat of fascismStalin yes?
> and who Lenin wrote a whole ass book about himMLs try to read infantile disorder (a book about Pannekoek), challenge level: impossible.
>>2418408The party will remain small
>It is a fundamental thesis of the Left, that our party must not abstain from resisting in such a situation; it must instead survive and hand down the flame, along the historical "thread of time". It will be a small party, not owing to our will or choice, but because of ineluctable necessity. While thinking of the structure of this party, even in the IIIrd International’s epoch of decadence, and in countless polemics, we rejected – with arguments that it is now unnecessary to recall – several accusations. We don"t want a secret sect or élite party, refusing any contact with the outside, owing to a purity mania. We reject any formula of workerist or labourist party excluding all non-proletarians; as it is a formula belonging to all historical opportunists. We don’ t want to reduce the party to an organisation of a cultural, intellectual and scholastic type, as from polemics more than half a century old; neither do we believe, as certain anarchists and blanquists do, that a party is imaginable which is involved in conspiratorial armed action and in hatching plots.https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1965/consider.htm >>2418405>Stalin yes?Can't be irrelevant when guiding a superpower, even if you are a retard, look a trump.
two times when you make even more nations than before into your cause.
>MLs try to read infantile disorder (a book about Pannekoek), the hat still fits to any Left wing Kautskiites like bordiga or pannekoek.
>>2418414Keep defeating fascism propping up bourgeois regimes, I'm sure you'll
defeat it for real next time.
>>2418411>We reject any formula of workerist or labourist party excluding all non-proletarians; <We don"t want a secret sect or élite party, refusing any contact with the outside, owing to a purity mania< owing to a purity maniadidn't want it but that's what they got, and even worse it's a recipee for irrelevance to the proletarian masses, thus Useless in class struggle, spiraling into Elitism disconected to the masses.
it was doomed from the start, bourdiga's method.
>>2418416
>Bordiga stood with Leninbut did Lenin stand with Bordiga is the question.
Lenin, like always, was a pragmatist first and foremost, he was against the purity fetishism and inflexibility of leftcoms like Bordiga. While councilcoms differ from the italian leftcoms in their rejection of the party form, this is not all the infantile disorder was about.
>>2418421uhhh idk what you're getting at, but I personally think that the ussr defeating nazi germany and causing adolf hitler to shoot himself in a bunker to not only be historically progressive, but a good thing too
I guess you disagree on both fronts
Really makes you think
>>2418409the appendix in that book he clearly states that Bordiga was sectarian:
>I have had too little opportunity to acquaint myself with “Left-wing” communism in Italy. Comrade Bordiga and his faction of Abstentionist Communists (Comunista astensionista) are certainly wrong in advocating non-participation in parliament.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch07.htmand that's precise the whole reason of the book, the abstentionism in bourgeoisie parliamentarism, is an infantile attitude.
To refuse parliaments is to refuse the battlefield on which the workers must fight in all capitalist countries. t. Lenin. bordiga and their ilk turned valid critiques into dogmas because it's isolationism and utopian in nature.
>>2418458In the footnotes, about participation in elections.
Lol, lmao even.
>>2418476PPPFF keeeek
lmao even
least retarded ultra who never read the book he claims isn't an attack on bordiga.
LMAO>he doesn't know why bordiga is called the armchair lord. not at all he connects the dots. >>2418482the books isn't a critique about party form, dimwit
:^)
the book itself it's a critique in ultras not using the bourgeoisie system to infiltrate the system, like using the rights for assemblies, protest, electoralism, speech, all of which bordiga during his whole life was adamantly opposed of doing.
The book it's a critique on parties not using bourgeoisie tools:
<1>Dogmatic Abstentionism>“To refuse to work in the reactionary trade unions means leaving the insufficiently developed or backward masses of workers under the influence of the reactionary leaders… it means playing into the hands of these leaders.”>— Chapter 6: Should Revolutionaries Work in Reactionary Trade Unions?>“To refuse to participate in parliamentary elections and in parliament would be a mistake… [The revolutionaries] must not abstain from the struggle on the pretext that it is a dirty business.”>— Chapter 7: Should We Participate in Bourgeois Parliaments?<2. Sectarian Purism>“To refuse to work in the bourgeois parliaments and reactionary trade unions means to give up the fight for influence over the masses who are still, for the most part, under the sway of the bourgeoisie.”>— Chapter 7>“One must be able to withstand all this, to agree to any sacrifice, and even – if need be – to resort to all sorts of stratagems, manoeuvres, and illegal methods, to evasion and subterfuge, in order to penetrate the trade unions, to remain in them, and to carry on Communist work in them at all costs.”>— Chapter 6<3. Tactical Myopia>“It is far more difficult—and of far greater value—to be able to utilise the ‘machinery’ of bourgeois parliaments for revolutionary purposes.”There's
0 mention of the words
"PARTY FORM" in that book.
0. you dense retard reactoid.
you are pathetic excuse of human being, a pseud and someone who deserves a bullet in your skull.
>>2418507>>“To refuse to work in the reactionary trade unions means leaving the insufficiently developed or backward masses of workers under the influence of the reactionary leaders… it means playing into the hands of these leaders.”>>— Chapter 6: Should Revolutionaries Work in Reactionary Trade Unions?>>“To refuse to participate in parliamentary elections and in parliament would be a mistake… [The revolutionaries] must not abstain from the struggle on the pretext that it is a dirty business.”See the ICP on the trade union question.
https://www.international-communist-party.org/English/REPORTS/UnionQue/49MarxismTUQuestion.htm>>— Chapter 7: Should We Participate in Bourgeois Parliaments?>><2. Sectarian Purism>>“To refuse to work in the bourgeois parliaments and reactionary trade unions means to give up the fight for influence over the masses who are still, for the most part, under the sway of the bourgeoisie.”>>— Chapter 7>>“One must be able to withstand all this, to agree to any sacrifice, and even – if need be – to resort to all sorts of stratagems, manoeuvres, and illegal methods, to evasion and subterfuge, in order to penetrate the trade unions, to remain in them, and to carry on Communist work in them at all costs.”>>— Chapter 6See the interview, the beginning segment
>>2418499.
>There's 0 mention of the words "PARTY FORM" in that book.There is 0 mention of me writing that "PARTY FORM" is a key word you retard. There are entire chapters dedicated for the Dutch-German who are explicit with their refusal of the party form, that is detrimental and cannot be overlooked.
>>2418518> is a key word you retardcalled it:
>>2418520lmaoooooo
neck yourself, you uttermost retarded ultra.
>>2418474>History will repeat since the goal was never to oppose the capitalist mode of production, but to "fight fascism"And fascists' "goal" at the time was to destroy communism and genocide eastern europe. Opposing the capitalist mode of production and fighting fascism are not mutually exclusive. Why would they be?
>Bordiga wanted to oppose fascism through class action rather than united fronts, but you would rather deny that he proposed such things at all, since you can only be a denier and a falsifier at best.I just don't care what some dude who couldn't even prevent fascists in his own country from taking over has to say about opposing fascism. So far nothing any leftcom has ever posted has convinced me that looking more into Bordiga isn't a giant waste of time. It reeks of a kind of anarchist/trotskyist anti-communism, same shit basically. That is not to say Bordiga himself may or may not have had good ideas. There's just nothing really to show for it.
Your glibness about the gaza genocide didn't go unnoticed btw
>>2418523>the revolution will happen when it happen<so what about you know, open connection to struggles of the proletariat and campaings of education through any method>that will happen when it happens chud.not even presence, how will the masses achieve something other than labor sindicalism is unknown.
>>2418525>The ICP works with the CSAN which is the organization of workers on the basis of class.<they band with a miniscule union building movementthat's all they have ?, okay, the point of irrelevancy between the proles still stands.
>>2418544>>2418551I'm not saying it was likely guys jeez
>>2418553Also this
>>2418557tell me about, making up words, not reading Lenin's book about them, and then projecting.
you'll never get them to read a book. they'll never recommend you to read a book in which it can be proven that Lenin ever said "party form" and so on, and so on.
they do so much lip service to their ruling class wasting time in here, and for free (?), it amuses me.
>>2418531>On the stance of reform or revolution, Bordiga, the ICP, the Italian school of Left Communism choose revolution.yet their method is empty mastubation that achieve nothing, they may think themselves as the trve communists, but communism with no capacity to act in minimum or maximum goals is not communism, is a book study group, they choose self revolution.
>where you bastards choose reformism and national socialism, secluding yourselvesreformism never wanted the taking of power, you clearly don't know what reformism means, and there is nothing national from the only group that spread the revolution beyond its borders.
> then witnessing the collapse that comes with a lack of economic planning and commodity production opening up the market economy once againfirst of all, did you guys even read a history book, really, "lack of economic planing", GOSPLAN don't ring a bell ?, the USSR was the only one to ever do it, also commodity production has become a complete strawman for being the only point not removed by actual socialism, as private expropriation of collective created value and private property was extinguished, can you tell me any capitalist nation that removed imbued features of it's systems ?, no, it never happens, and even the point of "opening markets" is unconnected from material realities of any socialist nation, USSR did it because it was a Sucessful coup backed by the USSR fermented for decades of historical happenings boiling into that point, which by your screams about Khruschev you deny because aparently the historical-material is irrelevant to the conditions of the nation, China and Vietnam are complete oportunism for their own goals, and they aren't wrong, Lesser productive system lose to more productive ones, china will overtake everyone, it's a fact, now it's a question for the chinese to take.
> acting all surprised when the USSR did end up reforming but had already retreated into capitalism before idiots like Hoxha noticed and blamed it on Khrushchev,idiotic simplification for a idiotic take, the USSR only reformed and retreated into capitalism with gorbachev, as the bourgeois, the state aparatus for their control(Dictatorship of the Bourgeois), private property of the means of production unconstrained from state repression and private apropriation of collective wealth only came to be with him, it wasn't Khruschev, Stalin or anyone else, there may be influences from them used to this desolution as show with gorbachev and Yakovlev using Stalin to hit Lenin, and openly repeting on their memoir to of Khruschev's speech as a redpill against socialism, blaming everything Khruschev may be stupid, denying he didn't had a effect is also stupid but so is a empty blame done by ""revolutionary"" leftcommunists that somehow are so advanced and leftist over the other that it was over since the start and not trve socialism-communism, an that the bourgeois fears of socialism was misplaced because they actually were capitalist like them, just chill and nothing will happen.
>you're all the bastard children of the perestroika actually non Marxist-Leninists are the bastards of perestroika, claiming this "state Capitalism"/degenerate socialism/Red fascism was over and trve revolutionary ideals and movements would rise, thirty years have passed and not even the markings of a movement with the desire for a revolution of any spectrum has become popular between the proles in any relevant level, ironically enough the USSR is still in the mind of the proles for good or for ill, no one imagines anything else, because even in death it influences revolution.
now go on to do your little speech about true and politically correct revolutions that won't happen over those that did.
>>2418598>is a book study group, they choose self revolution.Its not the time to act, it is the time to study and organize.
>and there is nothing national from the only group that spread the revolution beyond its borders.Spread what? Self-governing "communist parties" which secluded to their own self-management? When the USSR was fathomed to be "the home of the workers" rejecting any notion of joint leadership between the "communist parties" just shows how stuck up in nationalism all of them were.
>GOSPLAN don't ring a bell ?Doesn't economic problems in the USSR ring a bell? And you end up defending market economies either way, what a pseud.
You really are the toddlers of perestroika.
>>2418696Kursk status?
2014 ATO status?
Leg status?
>>2418819If Bordiga was alive today he would support SVO, the PRC and marijuana.
If Stalin was alive today he would support Israel, the United States, the West, the CIA, Epstein and Ukraine.
>>2418844This is what a world without Prigozhin looks like
stagnant lines, cucks, Cucktin, Israel
>>2418862>he could've saved SVOfor Ukraine
…but he failed. cope seethe
>>2418936>come out saying ukraine dindu nuffin, implying the smo pointless>launch a coup right when ukraine launches counteroffensyiv, attempting to create internal crisis at exactly the worst timeyou guys are simping a traitor who took the nafo bux.
he was a greedy stupid faggot. he sucked. now he's dead.
>>2418947Jun 23, 2023:
>The Wagner head, Yevgeny Prigozhin, has accused Moscow’s leadership of lying to the public about the justifications for invading Ukraine, in the latest sign of conflict between Vladimir Putin’s government and one of his most important allies.
>In an explosive 30-minute video posted on his Telegram channel, Prigozhin dismissed Moscow’s claims that Kyiv was planning to launch an offensive on the Russian-controlled territories in eastern Ukraine in February 2022.
>“There was nothing extraordinary happening on the eve of February 24,” Prigozhin said.
>“The ministry of defence is trying to deceive the public and the president and spin the story that there was insane levels of aggression from the Ukrainian side and that they were going to attack us together with the whole Nato block,” the Wagner head said.
>Shortly after Russia attacked Ukraine, Putin claimed Moscow’s invasion had thwarted Ukraine’s own plans for “a massive attack on the Donbas, and then on the Crimea”.
>Prigozhin also said Russia’s leadership could have avoided the war by negotiating with Ukraine’s president, Volodomyr Zelenskiy.
>“When Zelenskiy became president, he was ready for agreements. All that needed to be done was to get off Mount Olympus and negotiate with him,” he said.…IOW..c'mon guys ukraine dindu nuffin. we should just stop, fight amongst ourselves and let them win. (then launches a coup just after ukraine launches its big 2023 offiensive, for maximum possible damage to russia, and maximum help to ukraine.
Fuck prigozhin. he's feeding worms where he belongs
>>2418982No that's your flag but you forgot the rainbow, the trans flag, the CIA emblem, the US flag.
My flag is picrel.
>>2418958I will never understand the retards sucking the dick of a pmc oligarch social media whore
any rational army would have shot him even earlier
>>2418989Well the "rational army" was struggling to get their shit together from decades of liberal policy and the burden of continuing to drag that ball and chain to war. Among those the PMC(in class and occupation) oligarch is king.
He knew well the sort of evil he represented as an enforcer of imperialism abroad and domestic face of corruption, so Prigo knew how to appeal to the people from experience.
>>2419349Not sure big arrows will ever be a part of this conflict, as long as Ukraine has some precision weapons, continues to bait Russia exclusively into urban warfare and can use NATO’s big eye in the sky, large movements will always be unreasonably risky and kind of unnecessary anyway if Ukraine keeps bussing all of its recruits to contested cities/towns/villages and Russia’s military goals are indeed only Donbass, Lugansk and the other regions that voted to join Russia.
That there needs to be a big arrow that reaches out of Eastern Ukraine for Russia to achieve its goals is a cope Ukraine puts out there because it knows that really its military goal is to avoid those regions from being annexed and its failing at that goal.
>>2419437Something that has become apparent over these last three years is that most people don’t know what the word “collapse” means in this context
>I want to restore 1991 borders!>But I don’t have the men, the money, the morale or the weapons to achieve that>I’m also loosing territoryThat’s a collapse, because they’ve lost the ability to achieve their goals and are now just doing the natural thing of being as stubborn as possible at the expense of all else to try to encourage the enemy to opt for a conditional surrender with better terms over unconditional surrender.
It’s sort of like suggesting that Japan hadn’t militarily collapsed in 1945, because not only hadn’t America yet invaded the Japanese mainland, they also produced a ton of purple heart medals anticipating a very difficult invasion.
>A Russian far-right group staged a protest at a memorial event for the victims of Stalin’s purges in Sandarmokh, in the Republic of Karelia, Russia, on Tuesday. The incident was reported by the online newspaper Barents Observer.
>According to Barents Observer, the group involved was a Russian far-right organization called the Russian Community, or Russkaja Obshtshina in Russian. During the event, members of the group, who had covered their faces, reportedly called the foreign diplomats present "fascists" and sang patriotic songs, among other actions.https://www.thebarentsobserver.com/news/militant-extremists-staged-provocation-on-remembrance-day-for-victims-of-the-great-terror-in-sandarmokh/434456
<The Russian Community (Russian: Русская община, romanized: Russkaya obshchina; RO) is a Russian far-right nationalist political organization founded in late 2020.[1][2] It has been described as anti-Islamic, anti-immigrant, anti-Caucasian, and pro-government.[3][4] >>2419449 (me)
>>2419464 (me)
wtf, this general is wayyyy too slow for my ADHD. Whenever I try to get discussions going, nada.
Save /ukr/, sign the petition for a Russian Blitzkrieg today.
>>2419529>>2419532For sure but presumably these powerful people are soliciting high class escorts rather than desperate no choicers and are there enough of those to make up a “high percentage” of the HUR?
It’s more the “high percentage” part that concerns me more than the idea that prostitutes generally can be informants.
>>2419578(cont. since I cut off by accident)
This is why Lenin took such a harsh line against prostitution btw.
>>2419578Similar to other posts, I get the idea that prostitution is a source of informants, but Budanov isn’t calling them informants or prostitutes (tbh that’s probably more of an insult by RT than an accurate description) but instead serving members of the HUR as spies with cover not as sex workers
>Ukrainian spies commonly use “entrepreneurial activity, journalism, and sociology” as cover jobs while on assignment, while some work under “full cover,” living double lives in Russia, he said.So again, nothing new there, female spies using sex to gain the trust and affection of those with information. But claiming that females are a “high percentage” of the HUR now and generally boasting about the prevalence and success of something I think most intelligence agencies barely admit to, seems strange.
Almost as though the interview itself is part of a recruitment drive
>It gets real results!>Lots of women are already doing it!>The Brits do this all the time!Thus, I have my suspicions that this is not about Ukraine passively exploiting an already existing network of sex workers who may or may not get picked up by a guy with information and a willingness to divulge it with street walkers, but actively weaponising the puss is something is a key part of Budanov’s work.
>>2419608The original point being made was
>>2417985 as though they weren’t really Nazis (despite all the Nazi larping on presumes) because… Ukraine wasn’t powerful enough to be Nazis? And the post that was replying to
>>2417983 completely ignores that the conflict got to its flashpoint partially because Ukraine was breaking every human rights law the EU has against Russian speakers but still receiving full support from the EU and NATO nevertheless.
I think it has been established for a while now that being smol bean nation doesn’t intrinsically make you a victim when your attempts at oppression and genocide towards people you’ve disowned but want the land they live on.
Au contraire, trying and failing at that to then play the smol bean victim card because you’ve been thwarted by larger powers is exactly what Israel currently does.
>>2419659I imagine a lot could fool you if you thought
>The US were complete liars though in their multiple foreign conflicts!that span the entire globe was in any way a worthwhile point to make about a regional conflict on Russia’s border
>>2419667https://www.reuters.com/article/world/ukraine-passes-language-law-irritating-president-elect-and-russia-idUSKCN1S110Y/I think the last quote summarises the intent though
>"This is a historic moment, which Ukrainians have been awaiting for centuries, because for centuries Ukrainians have tried to achieve the right to their own language," one of the authors of the bill, Mykola Knyazhytsky, said before the vote.As though they didn’t have the right to their own language because Eastern Ukrainians predominantly spoke Russian?
Face it, this isn’t a policy that would be tolerated anywhere else for the kind of shitlib that is claiming this doesn’t represent state-ordained hostility towards Russian speakers in Ukraine.
>>2419695>it’s a difference of relative powerBut you’ve already dismissed the Russian claim that this conflict was caused more broadly by NATO expansion who are indeed considerably more populous and geopolitically powerful than Russia are by a very large margin. Which of course you would, because that’s how you frame it as though Russia is ackshually just the US and trying to curb stomp a third world country for its resources that it otherwise has no geographical, political or demographic relation to.
The real difference between Russia and Ukraine and Israel is that both Ukraine and Israel aren’t technically invading anyone by shelling the shit out of a minority they want off “their” land, both are able to exploit that fact with liberals of different stripes by claiming these are just internal problems that are for Tel Aviv and Kiev alone to devise a final solution for, whereas Russia invading Eastern Ukraine is actually illegal and actually the jurisdiction of the UN and whatnot
>>2419148>Is it true that Russia is making more gains this summer than they even had during the beginning of the war?Yup. At this rate all the "summer counter-offensive" of ukranians 2023 is going to be lost.
>How cooked is Ukraine?Medium rare cooked.
>>2419740They’re making noise because Russia has just abandoned a treaty on nuclear weapon deployment and development “1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty” that Trump already abandoned in 2019, along with Russia deploying nuclear weapons in Belarus and I believe mentioned the possibility of deployments of Oreshniks to allies like Venezuela which are all very aggressive moves, but NATO’s stance towards Russia has been so aggressive for the last two decades that they’ve already played their cards that could have been considered retaliatory if played now.
Threats of planning something “big” against Russian leadership is the only retaliatory move they can make, all actual practical hostile actions have long since been exhausted.
>>2419687>Russians think Ukrainians speaking Ukrainian is a threat to their existenceLol
I love this Israel cope
Israel sees itself as a bulwark of western civilization threatened historically by Muslims, with Jews representing pre-Islamic, Biblical era restoration. It is destined towards a transition from occupation after a failed two state solution to a one state solution. To this end it favors destroying postcolonial Arab states. Pretty cut and dry issue, an out of colonial state in a postcolonial world that holds the middle east back
Russia sees Ukraine as a brother nation struggling with a historic east-west divide as a borderland, with the issue aggravated to an impasse by European expansion
Israel-Palestine is a postcolonial issue. Ukraine is an echo of Europe's spread of the nation-state dividing the lands by ethnicity, causing endless crises. What's unique about this time around is its not nations rising from old empires and fighting each other, but great power nations coming together in the wake of that fighting and exporting their model to a post-communist periphery. This means we aren't just dismantling what we call a command economy, but also a socialist nationalities policy. All in order to expand global capital and later recover from a paradoxical crisis of liberalism that expansion concluded with
>>2419809you are conflating Crimea with Donetsk, and Crimea does have running water now.
obviously, the retarded "cucktin" crowd show no knowledge, no intentions to know, no real reasons to know, they don't want to engage seriously, never will engage in a serious manner, and of course, they are just nafo in disguise. Coordinates of the dam blown up in Feb. 26 2022.
46.206843, 33.454522
>>2419865By some weird coincidence then Ukraine's number of mobilization waves is roughly the same as the number of EU sanction packages on Russia.
Unlimited sanctions!
Unlimited mobniks!
>>2420309yes and no. if militaristic projects could give jobs in Vermont, he'd gladly accept them:
https://www.leftvoice.org/not-on-our-side-on-bernie-sanders-and-imperialism/>“My view is that given the reality of the damn plane, I’d rather it come to Vermont than to South Carolina. And that’s what the Vermont National Guard wants, and that means hundreds of jobs in my city. That’s it.”He has received huge chunks of moeny from weapons contractors in the past, like that article studied. he's not consistent with leftism when weapons manufacturing comes to the table. well, he isn't consistent with anything, tbqh.
https://aurelien2022.substack.com/p/it-gets-worse…
>Insofar as it’s possible to describe the mentality of the western ruling class towards Russia at the moment with any clarity at all, it’s a bizarre mixture of unreasoning fear, hatred, incredulity and almost catatonic incapacity to conceive the future. The last is perhaps the most important, because nothing in the professional experience, or for that matter the education, of western rulers has prepared them for a situation where they are manifestly inferior militarily and economically to a hostile power, and there is nothing they can do about it. Like a small animal confronted with an unknown menace, they have no idea whether to run or whether to hide. So let’s look finally at some of the ways in which this poisonous and unstable situation might develop.
>For as long as possible, the West will try to keep everything on the verbal level, which is the simplest one, and to avoid taking any firm decisions. (Indeed, there are serious doubts whether the western political system, as currently structured, is capable of taking firm decisions anyway.) As I’ve suggested, we can expect a cloud of verbiage designed to disguise the lack of anything to do. Good old standbys would include setting up a Lessons Learned team, or a Future of NATO Working Group developing a new Comprehensive Concept. All this has been done before, especially after 1989: nobody now remembers any of the resulting clever ideas, mostly because they amounted to “let’s keep doing what we’ve always done.” But that’s not possible this time, and not even our current leaders are dumb enough to think it is.
>Another good standby is a repackaging of existing projects and plans under new names. For more than twenty years now, NATO has been working on missile defence projects, with mixed results. The original idea was primarily to defend against possible attacks from Iran or similar potential enemies, but it’s likely that the whole project will be dusted off, given a new name and status and marketed as a way of defending Europe against the new generation of Soviet missiles. This is impossible, of course, but it looks good, and is superficially impressive if you are totally ignorant of missile technology, as western leaders generally are. The alternative—of admitting that Europe is defenceless against such missiles—is politically impossible. And I wouldn’t rule out a proposal from Brussels to start negotiations to outlaw such missiles and technologies, asking the Russians to give up their own current systems against the promise that we won’t develop our own, some time. NATO forces will be given new names, new exercises will be scheduled, new commanders appointed, new collaborative R and D programmes announced, if not necessarily implemented.
>All this is intended to provide the appearance of action when none is, in fact, possible. I don’t say this just to mock, although a little mockery may be in order here, but to point out that an organisation like NATO, widely dispersed geographically, made up of nations of wildly varying sizes, with wildly varying strategic situations and interests, is going to be led, as it always is, to the Least Common Denominator and will have to make the best of it. If NATO still had substantial forces, a military-industrial base, significant equipment holdings and recent experience of large-scale operations, then the situation would be clearer and there would be more possibility of finding something useful to do. But it doesn’t and there isn’t.
>This is likely to provoke an extremely dangerous and unpredictable situation. Mixed with the fear of Russia, after all, is the fear of the security void at the heart of Europe that the end of NATO would leave. The problem is that the reasons why various European nations, especially smaller ones, think NATO is useful to them, are generally mutually contradictory and cannot be articulated in public. So our notional Russian listening device would hear again and again that “we must show our populations that NATO is still relevant,” even if no-one is exactly sure how to do this, and parades and speeches will only accomplish so much. The danger, of course, is that someone will do something really silly.
>NATO has never been called upon to take a really critical collective decision in its entire history, but even decisions of less importance (such as the stationing of Cruise and Pershing missiles in Europe in the 1980s) have been very divisive. The 1999 Kosovo campaign almost brought a much smaller organisation to breaking point. The chances of anything more than a purely performative set of actions this time are about zero, the more so since the gaping strategic differences over Ukraine that are currently kept concealed will start to become increasingly evident. And more and more people with access to the elites will start wondering what, in that case, NATO is actually for. Even within the elites, people will start to ask why, if the US can no longer be used as a political counterweight to Russia (quite apart from having a nutcase as President), the transatlantic link should be continued. At that point, it’s pretty much game over. And that could be very dangerous indeed.
>At the highest strategic level, European states all have an interest in not being bullied or intimidated by a resurgent and angry Russia. Since the Russians will be looking to establish a new security order in Europe that suits their needs, this is entirely possible. The problem is that not all European states will feel equally concerned about a strong and hostile Russia: many will have other and more important priorities. And even if states closer to Russia will understandably feel more nervous, it’s not obvious that a weak and divided group of countries can be of much mutual support to each other, and the US will not be in a position to do more than gesticulate.
>The fact that the Russians probably have no territorial designs on Western Europe actually makes things more difficult, not less. If a conventional military confrontation were likely, then states like Poland and Rumania could build up their forces a little, and have limited contingents from other countries on their soil. But even then, it’s clear from the Ukraine experience that the Russians would simply use their superiority in missiles and drones to destroy western forces, together with their headquarters, logistic and repair depots, transport systems and government structures, without any risk of reprisal. But that’s not the problem: a weak and divided collection of countries with very different strategic situations and priorities, sitting at varying distances from a major military power, is going to have to find some way of preserving as much of their freedom of political manoeuvre as possible. Yet this is almost certainly going to be on a national, or at least multilateral, basis, simply because the situations are so different. In this context, we’re not talking about war, but the use of military forces as cards on the table in any political bargaining, and every state will have a different collection of cards. Some may have none.
>So for countries bordering Russia, or near it, building up ground forces somewhat, and preparing defensive fortifications could make sense as a gesture supporting political independence. It’s hard to see, though, why Belgium or Portugal should do the same. Countries further away will want to invest in assets to patrol their air and maritime borders: again, not to fight, but to provide visible indications of sovereignty. The British and French nuclear systems—perhaps the only genuinely powerful political factors in European defence—are going to have to play a rather different kind of role in the future, but at the moment we can’t say what that will be.
>It’s hard to see any of this being centrally organised, or indeed organised at all. Some small countries will drift towards an accommodation with Russia because they see it as in their best interests. Others will try to preserve more independence, perhaps through ad hoc alliances. NATO, and to an extent the EU, will become ghost organisations, increasingly cut off from the real security questions that will be increasingly re-nationalised.
>Such a transition will be enormously difficult and dangerous, and there will be furious resistance to it by those unwilling to leave fantasy land. The conviction that if you only make the money available everything can be bought will take a long time to disappear, as will parallel fantasies of re-industrialisation and rearmament. The fact that the US and European armaments industries simply can’t produce what might be needed, though obvious enough, will still come as a terrible shock. Meanwhile, some of the looser canons will fantasise about Ukrainian governments in exile, recruiting mercenary armies or establishing guerrilla forces in Russia: anything to avoid admitting defeat. Such initiatives would be exceptionally dangerous and will need to be stamped on hard.
>Washington will be a particular problem here, because in policy terms it’s an anarchic swamp where any and all proposals, no matter how extreme and bizarre, can be found somewhere. There are so many players, so many interest groups and so much money that we can be pretty sure that, as the cold and clammy realisation of defeat sinks in, the most bizarre and ridiculous proposals will be floated. The problem—and it’s not specific to the Russians—is the tendency of other nations to take everything that comes from the US literally, and to fail to separate the reasonably coherent and potentially acceptable ideas from the dross and garbage produced by idiots in search of funding. There’s some evidence that the Russians (like others it must be said) massively over-estimate the degree of consensus and central control in Washington, and so treat seriously ideas that informed insiders dismiss as junk. So it’s quite likely that in the next few years some intern at a minor think tank will come up with a clever plan to station hundreds of nuclear-armed missiles along the Russian frontier. The plan will be instantly forgotten, but the Russians, over-interpreting things as usual, will probably freak out.
>We don’t need this. Getting through the next 5-10 years in one piece is going to be a challenge, and requires careful and thoughtful management of an angry, powerful and suspicious Russia. Now all we need is a western political class capable of doing that. Any idea where we can get one from? >>2420078I think BRICS will have to come up with some kind of collective response, and can't just ride it out. And what's to ride out? This is US policy now. Sanctions were losing their effectiveness so they're using tariffs as another form of sanctions to give it more life. The Lindsey gram giga-tariff bill has majority establishment support. This stuff is not going away when Trump does.They never reverse the shitty things Trump does on the world stage. When he moved the embassy to Jerusalem a lot of people complained, and a lot of Democrats, but did Biden move it back? No.
When trump pulled out of the JCPOA with Iran the Democrats complained, but did Biden reverse it? No.
Tariffs have been perverted into another form of imperial coercion, so they will be embraced by the bipartisan consensus and outlast Trump.
>>2419718>whereas Russia invading Eastern Ukraine is actually illegal and actually the jurisdiction of the UN and whatnotThe Russian invasion does violate the U.N. Charter. This isn't up for debate.
>>2419791>Russia sees Ukraine as a brother nation struggling with a historic east-west divide as a borderland, with the issue aggravated to an impasse by European expansion Actually Russia is fighting to defend traditional Christian values which the West has abandoned.
>Israel-Palestine is a postcolonial issue. Ukraine is an echo of Europe's spread of the nation-state dividing the lands by ethnicity, causing endless crises. But Black Dynamite, a defining feature of the post-colonial world is the rise of nation-states with a shared language, culture, and history in contrast to extractive colonial empires where power resided in the metropole.
>What's unique about this time around is its not nations rising from old empires and fighting each other, but great power nations coming together in the wake of that fighting and exporting their model Didn't that happen in the Cold War though like in Vietnam.
>>2420575>The Russian invasion does violate the U.N. Charter. This isn't up for debate.Yes it is. Article 51 on collective self defense. It's only not up for debate if you disregard DPR/LPR and pretend they are just "Ukraine" with no separate rights against Kiev. You of course do this because you are a westoid lib and a shill for Ukraine and Nazism. Pretending they were fake entities with no rights has always been central to the Ukraine/NATO narrative.
Their rights were formally established in UNSC Res 2202 (Minsk II), which Ukraine was violating, and increasingly so leading up to Russia's intervention. That is the basis of Russia's legal case for military action (Article 51 collective self defense agaisnt Ukraine's escalating attacks on DPR/LPR.)
Ukraine was violating the UN Charter by violating UNSC resolution 2202. You could argue that Russia violated the UN Charter, but Ukraine was violating it first. This has been the case all along with legal claims, like the claim that Russia occupying or annexing Crimea was "illegal". Russia was legally in Crimea under the legal gov of Ukraine. An illegal gov then seized power and wanted them to leave, but they have no obligation to abide by the decrees of an illegally constituted gov in Kiev. In each case Ukraine and NATO created an illegal situation and then shift blame to Russia for supposedly "illegal" actions responding to the illegal situation Ukraine/NATO created.
>Actually Russia is fighting to defend traditional Christian values which the West has abandoned.Not really. They are fighting to defend DPR/LPR and enforce Minsk II, and more broadly to defend Russia from NATO encirclement and its plan to collapse and regime change Russia. Rhetoric about Christian values may make its way into the mix, but it's a low order part of the mix at best.
>>2419449Has Iran requested it? can't Iran do it by their own? are you sure of whatever you answer in these two questions before this one are officially what Iran desires, with undeniable evidence of it?
Doing nukes for a country that can enrich uranium, and has already created ballistic missiles is a joke. Nukes are old technology, quite simple to do, with a lot of documentation. fuck, if someone paid me, and provided me with the books, and materials, I'd probably could build one on my own, in some years. I highly doubt the Iranians can't.
now, Iranians don't need a nuke. They can put their Uranium, Plutonium, or the Uranium-enriched-for-nuclear-plants residues, the Cs-137/Sr-90 isotopes, on top of any ballistic missile and launch tens of dirty bombs and wipe any country in the ME off earth, with 0 chances of humans beings able to populate it/re-populate it for days, weeks, years, decades and centuries. that's how powerful Iran is, and dangerously stupid for zionists and ameriburgers to attack Iran.
tl;dr: Iran doesn't need Russia.
>>2420575>Actually Russia is fighting to defend traditional Christian values which the West has abandoned.Is this supposed to be a rebuttal? I'm not going to pretend Russia is not fighting an unprecedented intersection of nationalism and imperialism because it called you gay.
>But Black Dynamite, a defining feature of the post-colonial world is the rise of nation-states with a shared language, culture, and history in contrast to extractive colonial empires where power resided in the metropole.Post-colonial nation-states are not homogeneous and their regions do not resemble Europe and the ethnic boundaries it sorted itself into in order to later become liberal. Ukraine's decay was reduced to its insufficiently European nature and the crisis down to the spread of this historic sorting trend. That is, multinational history obstructed the spread of bourgeois democracy rather than capitalism hollowing out a periphery state
>What's unique about this time around is its not nations rising from old empires and fighting each other, but great power nations coming together in the wake of that fighting and exporting their model >Didn't that happen in the Cold War though like in Vietnam.No, I'm not sure I know what you mean and I suspect what I wrote wasn't clear. The European trend I'm referring to is long past the collapse of ancien regimes and subsequent national conflict among the great nations, but their reconciling under the US and export of their state model to the postcommunist east, which had a fundamentally different approach to the nationalities question (outside the WP). This created a reactionary intersection of ethnic supremacy and global capital that set Russia up for a an anti-colonial battle. From our point of view, the spread of international capitalism became based on division of the working class contra the promises of the liberal end of history, which obviously destroys the multiethnic borderland of east and west.
>>2421130It's just one or three Russian boomers who have Russia held hostage to cringey, whiny, nice-guy geopolitics - where complaining to the UN, whining about hypocrisy, feeding the economies of aggressors, performing "gestures of goodwill," and unilaterally adhering to broken 30-day ceasefires to win do-gooder points are the norm.
Mother Russia will rise again with the younger generations brought up on a diet of anti-simp culture.
>>2420575Your takes have been deteriorating for some time, Gay Nazi-kun
Terminal decline of the supreme imperialism of the West getting to you?
Many such cases.
I still remember you had nuanced takes on China with a largely positive slant (call it Marxist-Leninist, dialectical whatever).
Those were the days, however history marches on. No Mexican standoff lasts forever.
>>2420309>Didn’t Sanders advocate against cutting defence spending on the basis that it was a source of jobs for his constituents?Yes, pretty much:
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/12/why-bernie-sanders-is-backing-a-15-trillion-military-boondoggle.htmlHe also has a long history of making anti-war/anti-MIC noise only when Republicans are in power. American leftists noticed this decades ago and gave him the moniker Bernie the Bomber.
>>2420497>He is consistent in taking donations from progressives and giving them with his endorsement to center-right candidates.Many call him a sheepdog for the Dems, but this insinuates some kind of back-room-deal shit. I don't think that's actually the case. The real horror is that he plays that role for the Dems without them actually needing to engage in back-room-deal shit. The script is a function of his natural political intuitions.
>>2421198>Are you suggesting bombing a nightclub would have ended the war more quickly?The doomers on Telegram who mention the nightclubs are whining that Russia isn't cutting Ukraine's power and making life inconvenient for Bandera bunnies in Kiev and Lvov.
Our resident doomers probably want the nightclubs flattened LOL.
>>2421298Grind or grinder. Whatevs.
His complaints still centered on logistics and MoD inefficiencies.
It was actually Kadyrov who proposed a tactical nuke in 2022… but for Kherson, IIRC.
>>2421260Kiev has a lot of ethnic Russians.
Also, nuking humans entails nuking pets like dogs, and dogs are too awesome for such an end.
What puzzles me about Russia's approach to Kiev is that (1) it seems entirely kinetic, at least what we can observe overtly, and (2) it seems reactive more than proactive in that legitimate military targets are picked out in response to provocations instead of being taken out wholesale
>>2421299Americans will never admit their people are dying because muttlandia is a very trigger happy collection of fucks. Remember all those deaths of navy seals during training exercises with Yemen? Remember the training exercise deaths after soleimani death retaliation?
Remember those platoons that mysteriously disappeared in the swamps of lithuania?
Remember all those FOIA requests for servicemembers deaths that were redacted/obfuscated?
>>2421299Actually our stupid asses are dying. Despite the treatlerite narrative every time they pour more money into the MIC over here for some bullshit proxy war or something else to maintain our dying hegemony the social cost is more austerity, more privatization, more deregulation, more labor discipline, etc. So there is what Engels called social murder over here as the cost for these proxy conflicts. We die without even getting drafted, in the form of increased homelessness and drug addiction, poorly maintained infrastructure collapsing on us, lack of healthcare etc.
This is not to make us the victims, but to simply say that we do pay the price for what we do, at least indirectly, and eventually, when we run out of puppets, proxies, and time, directly.
>>24213261. no one died from soleimani's death lmao Iran always gives a heads up in advance to american bases
2. no navy seals died in Yemen lol
3. 1 APC got sucked into a swamp and died in lithuania but that was like 4 soldiers max
russians are seething since they've killed like 0 americans this entire war
>>2421338You are clearly glowing.
Kill yourself glowfag.
>>2421448 (me)
some wild shit, keeeek
imagine branding yourself as the opposite of Russia in the same moment your words are being watered down.
>>2421469>destroy some people dancing in the richest neighbors in Kiev/Lvov."Even Rybar gave up trying to understand
why they have enough power for their nightlife and concerts."
>>2421219you aren't counting the extensions, because you are a retard.
those are the recruitment waves I am talking about. and yes, totaled 14 calls.
suck it up, nafoid.
https://www.intellinews.com/russia-s-rosstat-decides-to-hide-increasing-bleak-income-and-retail-figures-from-the-public-394858/?source=russiaRussia’s Rosstat decides to hide increasing bleak income and retail figures from the public
>In July Rosstat declared it will withhold data on monthly retail, wholesale trade, income, and salary data from its June release. Analysts say the reason is those numbers paint an increasingly bleak picture the government is trying to hide from the public.
>Reconciled data between Rosstat and Sberbank shows that real wage growth is, for all intents and purposes, stagnant, Kommersant reports.
>Growth in demand of individuals for goods and services in June was just 1.4% y/y according to Sberindex and statisticians increased their estimate of annual growth of real disposable income in the first quarter of 2025 by 0.3 percentage points to 8.7%, down modestly from last year’s record levels.
>Real wages growth is also slowing. In annual terms it increased by 4.2% in May against growth of 4.6% in April, 0.1% in March, 3.2% in February and 6.5% in January 2025 in nominal terms, Kommersant reports. But removing seasonality and all these numbers become negative: growth in May compared to April was -0.4%, in April compared to March -1.5%, in March -0.2%, in February -1.2%, in January -2.2%, according to Centre for Macroeconomic Analysis and Short-Term Forecasting (CMASF).
>Banks are expecting the government to scale back subsidy support as budgetary pressures intensify as Russia’s economic problems grow, says Nicholas Trickett, a political economy analyst writing in Riddle.
>Inflation is falling faster than expected allowing the Central Bank of Russia (CBR) to put in 300bp of rate cuts in the last two months to help boost growth and could put in another 300bp of cuts before the end of the year. But the Russian economy is cooling fast as well, sparking a debate over if this is a recession or just an economic slowdown. As a warning sign, Russia’s manufacturing PMI suffered its sharpest fall in three years in July, S&P Global reported this week.
>“The Ministry of Finance is issuing debt at a breakneck pace this year—RUB2.8 trillion so far. The impending spending squeeze, as oil market pressures tighten, will leave families worse off,” says Trickett.
>Banks providing subsidized mortgages that survived the June 2024 suspension of a generous mortgage subsidy programme that rocked the real estate market now require borrowers to deposit 30.1% of the property’s value upfront, up from 20.1%. Housing prices have fallen, but recent reports say they have not fallen as far or fast as some feared after the subsidies were cancelled. Russia’s chronic labour shortage has also eased somewhat in recent months, but with unemployment stuck at a historic low of 2.2% it remains a problem.
>Trickett argues that the economy will come under increasing pressure from the changes in the labour market, which is why Rosstat has shut off access to the wage and retail numbers.
>“As the labour market weakens slightly and these shifts in financial flows accumulate, businesses will be caught trying to raise prices to protect their bottom line while slowing wage increases. The current balance is unsustainable,” says Trickett.
>Russia’s average monthly salary is nearly RUB100,000 ($1,250) – a third of Russians earn RUB100,000, according to Rosstat – the weakness of import demand has contributed to a stronger ruble, and most forms of investment are declining, which are helping to bring down inflation, but they are depressing consumption too. The extent of these changes has become hard to assess since this data is now being withheld or manipulated. That suggests things have become “dire,” says Trickett.
>“Consumer sentiment surveys simply don’t align with spending patterns on goods and services. Something is breaking, and rate cuts alone won’t mend the damage,” says Trickett. https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/western-analysts-find-little-hope
<We have seen for the past few months the slow acceptance in the pro-Ukrainian information field of the fact that Russia will not stop, nor will be stopped by any feeble political games from the US and EU. But more than this, they have begun to accept that the war will last a long time, that Ukraine has few options—and most importantly—that no deus ex machina-style salvation will come by way of some magic wunderwaffen or huge financial windfall.
<The latest to voice these hardening outlooks is military commentator—esteemed in the West—Michael Kofman, who has been quiet on the analytical front for a long time, given that he had little positive spin to share. Now he has returned from a trip—presumably to Ukraine—and decided to share his updated thoughts on the situation as a whole. It’s worth looking at because in many ways Kofman’s interpretations of events have always represented the ‘leading edge’ of the pro-UA analytical sphere, and thus serve as a kind of canary in coalmine for shifts in the narrative. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1950998968416215459.htmlAn update on the war following a recent trip. As Russian offensive presume mounts, the front is not at risk of collapse, though salients have formed. More concerning is that Russian improvements in drone employment have reduced Ukraine’s advantages. Long thread. 1/
In 2024 AFU expanded drone units within the force. This helped offset Russia’s materiel advantage, while compensating for the AFU’s continued manpower deficit. These initiatives are now well known and I covered them in previous threads. 2/
https://x.com/KofmanMichael/status/1902694940485767451Drones became responsible for most day-to-day casualties at the front, attriting Russian forces at 0-15km, and serving as the main force multiplier for the AFU. This enabled a low-density defending force to hold the 1200km+ front line, establishing defeat and denial zones. 3/
Russian casualties increased relative to terrain being gained. However, it was unclear whether drones would be enough to stabilize the front line given Ukraine’s manpower challenges, RF ability to replace losses, and if Russian forces could adapt to counter this approach. 4/
Since then, the Russian military began deploying its own offensive ‘line of drones,’ and improving how it employs drone units. Russian Rubicon drone units have spread to every Russian grouping of troops, and are the most spoken of challenge across the front. 5/
Rubicon formations focus on severing logistics with fiber-optic drones operating 20-25km behind the front line, destroying drone positions, and intercepting Ukrainian drones (winged ISR/heavy multirotor). In general, Russian drone units have become better organized. 6/
This does not mean that Ukraine has lost its qualitative edge in drone employment, but that the advantage has narrowed, Russian forces continue to adapt, and Ukraine must find ways to stay ahead. 7/
The situation in Sumy has stabilized after AFU deployed air assault units there to counter the Russian advance, holding it to a small buffer of 200km2. Russian forces make slow progress by Kupiansk, and east of the Oskil river, but continue inching forward. 8/
The immediate problem is the near envelopment of Pokrovsk, the pocket formed around Kostiantynivka, and the fighting near the Dnipro/Donetsk border by Novopavlivka. Russian units are also trying to stretch AFU manpower with attempts to push in Zap along the Dnipro river. 9/
The Russian military continues to underperform given their overall advantage in manpower and materiel. It is remarkable that AFU has held Pokrovsk and Chasiv Yar this long. But the situation has worsened, and probably will further before Russian offensives stall. 10/
The current dynamic is one of lines held by what are often 3-man positions with large gaps in between. These are neither firing positions, or observation points. They form a porous line in which infantry are often told to not to expose themselves unless absolutely necessary. 11/
Russian attacks are sometimes in 4-6 man groups, but in many cases have decreased to numerous 2-3 man sections trying to penetrate in between Ukrainian positions. Russian infantry seeks to advance as far as possible past Ukraine’s initial line and entrench there. 12/
Although many may be lost, some get through, and entrench awaiting reinforcements. Much the same can be said of motorcycle and buggy assaults, trying to bypass initial 'lines' and enter the rear. Most fail, but not all, leading to small tactical advances. 13/
Mechanized assaults are now seen much less frequently. In part because Russian forces are trying to conserve equipment, but also because AFU has long optimized for defeating traditional mechanized attacks which invariably fail with high vehicle losses. 14/
This is why evaluating armor availability as a metric is still useful, but less relevant if Russian forces are advancing at a faster rate than in 2024 with much lower use of AFVs. Similarly, artillery fire rate asymmetry was critical 2022-2023, but no longer as relevant. 15/
Although there is great work done detailing Ukrainian fortifications, most of the observed positions are constructed in the open and will never be occupied by units. They are easily targeted and destroyed. Ukraine lacks infantry to man most of them in the first place. 16/
This is not a war of trenches. It is a war of individual fighting positions, fortified and well masked units in tree lines, buildings, basements, or in dense forests. Occupying fortifications in the open is usually considered suicidal by troops. 17/
Since pervasive ISR and fires impose a degree of fire control over forward positions it is not possible to maintain large numbers of troops forward, sustain, or rotate them. Now some are on the line for 90+ days, and it often takes several days to reach a position on foot. 18/
Despite drones being the main casualty producing weapon (80%+), artillery remains important, with many units’ artillery use holding steady, or in some cases increasing. Artillery canalizes attacks, suppresses, operates in all-weather conditions, and is still relevant. 19/
Overemphasis on drones overlooks that the current dynamic is due to a combination of mining, use of drones, and traditional artillery fires. Hence maintaining adequate supply of arty and mortar munitions remains important despite drones doing much of the lifting. 20/
Russian tactics do not lend themselves to attaining operationally significant breakthroughs, but given the character of the fight, territory changing hands is a lagging indicator for what’s happening. Consequently, ‘gradually then suddenly’ transitions are possible. 21/
Ukrainian forces are increasingly defending in salients, with Russian drone units working to constrain logistical supply to these areas in an effort to collapse the pockets. Hence the geometry of the battlefield lends itself poorly to stabilization. 22/ (DeepStateMap)
The main culprit is a policy to hold onto every meter, even when in near envelopment, or in disadvantageous terrain. Rather than trading space for attrition, or conducting a mobile defense, AFU commanders are forced to try and hold onto untenable positions. 23/
Russian drone strikes have increasingly focused on bombarding civilian structures, and Ukraine’s defense industry in particular, seeking to suppress domestic production. Shahed (Geran) drones are also used against targets close to frontline positions. 24/
There has been an exponential increase in Russian drone & missile strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure. However, Ukraine is rapidly scaling up use of drone-based interceptors, paired with light radars. 25/
It will take time to expand production, upgrade mobile air defense, and build out a defensive line of air defense units, but the technical solution to the Shahed/imitator drone saturation problem exists and it is a matter of resourcing its deployment. 26/
Ukraine’s Unmanned Systems Forces are now led by Robert Brovdi, head of Madyar, and is launching plans that will better integrate and systematize drone employment. These hold promise as Ukrainian drone employment needs to evolve to stay ahead. 27/
One area where Ukraine remains clearly ahead of Russian forces is UGV employment for logistics, and medivac. This is more about establishing capable mesh networks to enable UGV use across terrain, and the cost of the comms can easily equal that of the platform. 28/
Ukraine is also seeking to close the gap in strike munitions that cover the 30-100km range, and strike systems for operational depths of 300km+ that are much more effective than cheap light drones, i.e. GLCMs and SRBMs. 29/
Ukraine is finally getting rid of the OTU and TG command layers that offered little besides trying to micromanage brigades, and set unrealistic combat tasks. Corps will take over, arranged under two Joint Task Forces (East and North) reporting to the OSUV. 30/
The new Corps hold promise, but the commands are being formed quickly. They will take time to become a cohesive structure, and unfortunately, they will have to command the units around them, not the those assigned to them, since BDEs can’t be easily redeployed. 31/
But it is not clear how much decision-making authority Corps, JTFs, or even OSUV commanders will have if the General Staff attempts to micromanage at the tactical level, retaining authority for allowing withdrawal from any positions, or order costly counterattacks. 32/
Russia continues to receive large volumes of artillery ammo from DPRK, and artillery systems, while being supported by China. Yet its economy is slowing down, and the increased rate of manpower losses has forced a postponement of force expansion plans in 2025. 33/
Bottom line: Despite the challenges, Ukrainian forces continue to hold Russian forces to incremental gains, extracting a steep price for territorial gains. Drone units are a key part of the solution, but by themselves may not be sufficient to stabilize the front. 34/
Ukraine needs a mix of hi-low capabilities (including expanding offensive strike), steady Western support & investment in its defense sector, alongside necessary reforms to force management, organization, and force generation. 35/
There's a fair amount I couldn't include in this thread as it was already 35 posts long, and I always ask myself how do we know what we know? Are we looking at the right things? Is there enough evidence for any given claim? If you've made it this far - thanks for reading.
>>2421412>they should just had updated their nuclear weapons to keep up any threats off their country, but noThe entire war is because of the US pulling out of the ABM and START treaties and putting dual use medium range ballistic missiles <5 minutes from Moscow. The purpose of which was to destablize mutually assured destruction by enabling a crippling first strike on Russias hardened static launch silos, which is the whole of the reason they started making Kinzal Zircon Avangaurd and Oreshnik. Thats the core of what "muh NATO enchroment" has always meant, its a reverse Cuban missile crisis.
The reason ABM and START treaties exist in the first place is to make MRBM off limits because the counter to that was Reagan's Star Wars program. The Soviets had better rocketry by the 70s and the US conceded after making the Pershing II and signed the treaties so they wouldn't go bankrupt.
Now they are instead openly violating the outer space treaty because they can't into hypersonics because they are decades behind in materials science and fuel chemistry, so they retrofitted the Shuttle as an orbital nuke platform while they light money on fire while waiting to develop laser tracking satellites that wont work. In other words Russia did update their nukes, and are bankrupting NATO on top of that.
>>2421759Readable English Version
1. Drones at the Front
Drones have become the primary cause of daily casualties at the front, striking Russian forces within 0–15 km and acting as the main force multiplier for the AFU. This has allowed a relatively small defending force to hold over 1,200 km of front line, creating zones of denial and attrition.
2. Russian Adaptation
While drones have increased Russian losses relative to terrain gained, it’s unclear if they can fully stabilize the front given Ukraine’s manpower shortages, Russia’s ability to replace losses, and possible Russian countermeasures. Russia has now deployed its own “line of drones” and improved their use, particularly with Rubicon units, which are present across all troop groupings. These target logistics 20–25 km behind the line, destroy Ukrainian drone sites, and intercept ISR and heavy multirotor drones.
3. Shifting Battlefield Dynamics
Ukraine retains a qualitative edge in drones, but the gap is narrowing. The Sumy front has stabilized after air assault units were deployed, while Russian forces advance slowly near Kupiansk and east of the Oskil River. The most urgent threats are around Pokrovsk, Kostiantynivka, and Novopavlivka.
4. Russian Offensive Tactics
Despite advantages in manpower and materiel, Russia has underperformed. Attacks now often involve 2–3 man teams infiltrating gaps rather than large mechanized assaults, which have become rare due to equipment conservation and Ukraine’s strong anti-armor defenses. Some infiltrations succeed, leading to small gains.
5. Fortifications and Troop Deployment
This is not a war of continuous trenches, but of dispersed, fortified positions hidden in tree lines, buildings, and forests. Open-field fortifications are rarely used due to high vulnerability. Limited manpower means positions are thinly held, with some troops staying in place for over 90 days.
6. Artillery and Drones
While drones cause over 80% of casualties, artillery remains critical for channeling attacks, suppression, and all-weather use. The most effective defense combines mines, drones, and artillery.
7. Strategic Challenges
Ukrainian forces often hold on to every meter of ground, even in near-encirclement, rather than trading space for attrition. Russian drone strikes increasingly target civilian infrastructure and Ukraine’s defense industry. Ukraine is expanding drone interceptors with light radars, but production and deployment will take time.
8. Ukrainian Adaptations
The Unmanned Systems Forces, now under Robert Brovdi, aim to better integrate drones. Ukraine leads in UGVs for logistics and medevac and is seeking more effective long-range strike capabilities (GLCMs, SRBMs). Command restructuring is underway, replacing outdated layers with Corps under Joint Task Forces.
9. Russian Supply and Limits
Russia receives artillery supplies from DPRK and support from China, but its economy is slowing, and manpower losses have delayed force expansion plans.
10. Bottom Line
Ukraine continues to inflict heavy costs for small Russian gains. Drones are vital but cannot alone stabilize the front. A mix of high- and low-end capabilities, steady Western support, defense sector investment, and force structure reforms are essential.
>>2421423I mean, it would make sense to unclench a bit. The EU has already agreed to subsidize the USA and buy their gas with the pretext of tariff negotiations.
If one takes a point of the war to force a split where the EU forgoes their own profit to subsidize fighting for US hegemony. And another to degrade Russia with a proxy war… The former has already been achieved and the EU couldn't be more of a vassal. And the latter has run its course, whatever effects, Ukraine is exhausted.
>>2423534>>2423537Wishcasting and samefagging. You couldn’t even come up with a RFE/RFL “source” to try and prove it this time
Your child-like belief in the godly power of Drumph is honestly adorable in a way
>>2423545
>samefaggingMeds, seriously
>blah blah blahUkraine collapse status?
>>2421617Not a nafoid, chill
>you aren't counting the extensionsYeah, i lost count of them a long time ago, if you want to count them then sure you're right
I meant specifically the waves before the endlessly extendable one
>>2423682That anon is correct
The Russian speaking part of Ukraine is the industrialized and urbanized part of Ukraine so if you pick a random Ukrainian on the internet from back then they'd be much more likely to speak in Russian
>>2423550I love the "according to people with direct knowledge of the companies"
KEK the mysterious so knowledgeable, they don't want to brag about that on public.
you are a gullible imbecile.
>>2423553>Ukraine collapse status?Kursk status?
leg status?
Summer offensive status?
Crimea vacation paradise in 2023 status?
no refunds for the party invitation.
>>2423970I was at home eating shkmeruli when Gogi ring
'Saakashvili is kill'
'no'
>>2420944>Post-colonial nation-states are not homogeneous and their regions do not resemble Europe and the ethnic boundaries it sorted itself into in order to later become liberal. Post-colonial nation-states are not homogenous, and there have been a lot of ethnic conflicts in post-colonial states, and also between them. Look at India and Pakistan. There are problems drawing borders around different groups that don't want to live together in the same country. Most nation-states have usually failed at some time or another. Russia had two internal wars in the 1990s in Chechnya. There have been wars just recently in Syria and between Azerbaijan and Armenia, which were also post-Soviet states.
>This created a reactionary intersection of ethnic supremacy and global capital that set Russia up for a an anti-colonial battle. From our point of view, the spread of international capitalism became based on division of the working class contra the promises of the liberal end of history, which obviously destroys the multiethnic borderland of east and west.Okay, but I think Russia is a participant in this process. It's not an anti-colonial battle, and Russia is not the Soviet Union, but a developing bourgeois capitalist Russian nation-state with a government and culture industry that is invested in Russian nationalism and marking itself as different because of a shared language, culture, history, religion (and so forth). This is emphasized in contrast to outsiders. It's "us" vs. "them." It's linked to a certain territory and the nationalists plant a flag with three stripes on it and claim it's theirs, and invent various myths and borrow others off the historical bookshelf to mystify what they're actually doing. And people get very emotional about it. A big thing in nationalism is sovereignty (which Russian elites talk about constantly).
You see where this is going.
This division between west/east here just mystifies what's going on. This thread will always remind me that ethnic Russians are being oppressed in Donbass which justifies Russian intervention. But it's not fundamentally different from Azerbaijan taking Nagorno-Karabakh and expelling the Armenians there. But now Russia and Azerbaijan have been feuding (fortunately short of military conflict) because the chauvinism unleashed by the nationalism of these respective wars also boomerang around.
>>2424014>>2424031>>2424034you are such a dumb fuck
stop posting
>>2424085meeting in the US is insane on putin's part.
as for trump:
"swapping of territories… to the betterment of both"
he's still delusional. this will be a nothingburger with extra cheese and the grind will continue
>>2424014>don't want to live together in the same countrymost often its just their respective new porkie class wanting all the capital for themselves
>Most nation-states have usually failed at some time or anotherwtf does that even mean
>Russiacountry wrecked by capitalism with cia organizing separatism
>Syriaethnic shit is mostly only just coming now after the state was destroyed, and again it was mostly a wrecking operation undertaken by the empire
>Okay, but I think Russia is a participant in this process… no it not? thats the point
>but a developing bourgeois capitalist exactly, developing, aka not part of the imperial core maintaining the division
>marking itself as different because of a shared language, culture, history, religion not religion in russia but anyway
>nationalismwhat does this have to do with the point of the empire working to maintain its advance and keeping other countries weak and underdeveloped? russian and ukrainian nationalism isnt what originally caused the war, the US wanting to fuck with russia and putting nazis in power in ukraine to achieve that is what caused it
>This division between west/east here just mystifies what's going onno, you just havent understood whats going on
>But it's not fundamentally different from Azerbaijan taking Nagorno-Karabakh and expelling the Armenians there. yes, it is, because russia and ukraine would have never done this without the US empire meddling, and this can easily be seen by seeing how armenia folded instantly because they recognized they would get wrecked, because this wasnt a war of the empire for maintaining its hegemony where they backed one side with infinite money and guns. Also russians (and ukrainians) arent expelling anyone. The situation is so fundamentally different one have to wonder what the fuck is in your head.
>>2424976Don't worry about my triumph, I made enough betting correctly on the course and outcome of this SMO *laughs
Worry about yourself acting like Putin's cuck throughout it
>>2424155>i think at this point cucktin is feeling some pressure to make a dealpressure from what?
>his war machine has completely bogged down and the russian economy is finally starting to feel the consequences of the warright as they are making significant gains?
got a source that isnt rfl? seems to me its just a continuation of demonstrating willingness to talk for the benefit of third party watchers(india, china etc)
>>2425059>right as they are making significant gains? But are they making them fast enough?
In other news there are reports of Russians reaching the city centers of Pokrovsk and Kupiansk, and even units operating tens of kilometers behind Ukrainian lines.
>>2424155>>2424166>>2424589trump doesn't understand the russian position and when he's told it he will not be willing to swallow the demands because it will look like a capitulation, the same as it's been all along.
my guess is the talks will amount to nothing and the war will end militarily, same as before. it's political theater that buys Dump some time and gets the neocons off his back for a while. He doesn't want to do the giga-tariffs he threatened because it will kill the US economy and his presidency, but he has no other cards (except maybe assassinating/arresting Putin in Alaska and hoping that does something.)
>>2424972>takes nato's cock out of mouth for 5 seconds to post on /ukr/ about what he wants to seeyeah, no one cares faget
>>2424034>muh ebin comic is a good counter argument to empirical evidenceAmerica bombed Japan to ashes. Japan today loves America.
The USSR leveled Germany to the ground. Germany during the Cold War loved Russia and only stopped loving Russia when Russia lost the Cold War.
Israel BTFO every Arab nation enemy it ever had and forced the remaining ones to sign peace treaties with it. No one else seems to care besides the Palestinians themselves.
Clearly killing tons of people works and anything else is cope.
>>2425198>No I'm actually furiousYou must be because imagine contradicting yourself that quickly lmao
>The fact that Ukraine cucked Cucktin out of 80% of Ukraine is good enough.>It should be 100%So you're pleased that Ukraine retains 80% of its territory, but you're ackshually furious Russia didn't get 100%
>>2425201>You can't readYou literally started your first post by claiming I work for the FSB but now you're Russia's greatest advocate claiming they ought to have had 100% of Ukraine.
There's two possible angles for shitposting, there's the pro-Ukrainian angle that lauds Ukraine for "cucking" Russia out of territories it never set foot on and there's the concern trolling disgruntled "pro-Russian" angle that asserts that Russia had maximalist goals as set by a handful of talking heads on Russian media and should have achieved all of those goals because Russia stronk 2nd army of the world Command and Conquer Red Alert vibes.
You've attempted both in quick succession despite the contradiction because you are in fact furious, just not in the way you wish to present it.
>I meant for UKRAINE 80% is a good enough result.Well, you're wrong, because Zelensky still insists that 1991 borders is the only satisfactory goal for Ukraine.
> my own political views 20% is dogshit.Strange because you're talking like that matters at all to anyone.
>>2425203>You literally started your first post by claiming I work for the FSB but now you're Russia's greatest advocate claiming they ought to have had 100% of Ukraine.And? Both can be true. What is a contradiction in your mind is not a contradiction in reality.
>There's two possible angles for shitposting, there's the pro-Ukrainian angle that lauds Ukraine for "cucking" Russia out of territories it never set foot on and there's the concern trolling disgruntled "pro-Russian" angle that asserts that Russia had maximalist goals as set by a handful of talking heads on Russian media and should have achieved all of those goals because Russia stronk 2nd army of the world Command and Conquer Red Alert vibes. Ah that's the problem. Your brain is so small you can't comprehend the notion of someone supporting Russia winning the war but also criticizing the government every step of the way for their mistakes. You mistake blind obedience as the only form of support possible which explains a lot about the Slav worldview and how retarded Russians are.
>Well, you're wrong, because Zelensky still insists that 1991 borders is the only satisfactory goal for Ukraine.And he has his entire life to accomplish those goals. Russia thought they won in Syria then got BTFO a decade later. Same thing can happen with Ukraine.
>Strange because you're talking like that matters at all to anyone.It clearly matters to you hence your attempted psychoanalysis of my position but you're too stupid to understand that you initiated that topic.
>>2425263Spurdo anon posted a video of said media talking heads declaring maximal goals with short victory times accompanied with a claim that Ukraine cucked Russia and indeed all of those talking heads by retaining 80% of their land… then immediately placed himself amongst those talking heads with similarly maximal goals for Russia and therefore someone Ukraine has also cucked, that he is furious about, but not so much that he can't reason to himself that Ukraine cucking him out of celebrating Russia taking 100% of Ukraine surely is good enough compared to their actual stated goal of retaking all of the 1991 borders, that they still consider their sole victory condition literally to today.
I suppose there is a continuity to it, but it's weird, directionless, entirely personal and doesn't do anything to counter my original point that the flip side to
>Lol Russia failed because they didn't get 100% of Ukraineis that they're therefore celebrating the possibility of surrendering Crimea, Lugansk and Donbass, that are the original grounds the civil war was fought over and that Kiev has had the sole stated mission of reclaiming against the will of the locals for the last 9 years.
That is to say, if they are actually celebrating unironically, then it can only be through gritted teeth and wet eyes.
>Trump's special envoy Witkoff misunderstood >Kyiv • UNN>August 9 2025, 02:42 AM • 12234 views
>US President Donald Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, "misunderstood" Russian dictator Vladimir Putin. This is reported by the German publication BILD, citing sources, according to UNN.Details
>"Vladimir Putin still wants full control over the Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson regions. He only offered a partial ceasefire – a refusal to attack energy facilities and large cities in the rear. But not a comprehensive ceasefire," a BILD source stated.
>The publication emphasizes that the US, on the contrary, proposed freezing the war along the current front line in exchange for a broad lifting of sanctions and new economic agreements with Russia. According to BILD, the Kremlin was unwilling to accept this proposal.https://unn.ua/en/news/trumps-special-envoy-witkoff-misunderstood-putin-bildhaha. the "misunderstandings" and walkbacks start already.
>oooooh you meant WE had to leave kherson and zapo. Well i….everyone needs to cool their jets and stop believing rumors in the press. putin is not going to cuck from the previous demands.
and even if he somehow did it would probably be a show because he knows zelensky and the europeans will refuse to budge on anything and trump has proven unwilling or incapable of standing them down or cutting them off. so they refuse the agreement and either the conflict continues as before or trump changes color and finally blames them for refusing peace and cuts them off. either way is ok for russia.
Everyone should know by now that Zelensky and the Euros will never rest until they get to find out who is the last holhol. They wouldn't allow Putin to cuck even if he wanted to.
>>2424031>Anyways, this is why I think the Cucktin posters probably have the right instincts, and Putin will make some sort of deal.Anything less than the four oblasts as Russia and the Banderite government gone (hint: Zaluzhny is just Zelensky 2.0) is a vindication of Cucktin posters and a strategic defeat for Russia.
Luckily… there's no way Putin will accept less than that. Right? R-r-r-r-right? :/
>>2425319You're coping.
Four oblasts + Zelensky government gone is the bare minimum. Now you're even reneging on that ("muh nuance") because you hate that Putin is going to make a fool of you.
>>2425327I'm allowed to use the same point Spurdo made
>And he has his entire life to accomplish those goals. Russia thought they won in Syria then got BTFO a decade later. Same thing can happen with Ukraine.Rather than Zelensky (or the governments fashioned as his successors and that of Poroshenko) living for long enough to see Russia's inevitable terminal cuckout and collapsing by which Ukraine gets full victory by default, 10-15 years after the end of hostilities, I postulate the possibility that, au contraire, there isn't very much life left in the current Ukrainian political class that isn't entirely life support from the West who you might have missed, don't find the Nazis to be all that easy to work with.
>>2424034The reason I don't like the 'nuke Kiev' talk is that it implies that Putin is operating at peak non-nuclear performance and that nuking is his only remaining option, but there are many conventional steps before that - for instance, he could finally kill Ukraine's power and bring the country to a grinding halt. This is NATO SOP under dual-use infrastructure.
But it's absolutely true that, albeit with n=1, the historical record has a precedent that nuclear aggressors don't become pariah states, apparently not even in their eyes of their nuclear victims.
>>2425335Spurdo's views change depending on the drugs he's taking each day.
Settling for less than the four oblasts (even the Istanbul 2024 conditions included those four oblasts) and the de-Nazification of the Ukrainian government is not NATO being thwarted any more than the Crimea land grab in 2014 was NATO being thwarted. It just makes the inevitable clash between Russia and the Banderite proxy more difficult in future, as the 2014 negligence showed.
I've sided with you against the maximalism of taking all of Ukraine or even Kiev, but this is asking too much and appears like a bad cope spell.
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