🗽UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅
<Border Contradictions EditionThread for the hellish discussion related to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the father of fascism, the enabler of ethnostates, the treatlerite tyrant, the protector of pedophiles, the exporter of ecocide, the captain of capitalism, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™
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>>2419606FRIENDLY REMINDER TO FILTER GLOWTARDS >>2420850no, i'm the oldest one there too lmao
this is my flag
>>2420852Get your own spurdo faggot.
Go use snibeti snab.
That's an order or I will shoot you too like I shot the ice agent.
with a water pistolhe was my dadi am disappointed with him, but he is my dad. Love you pops, even if you worship hitler >>2420853It's like a special club for closeted gay men who are so into Jesus (pronounced: hesus) that they fucking torture themselves and so it happened that they sided with fascism every time whence capital became a thing.
Got questions?
>>2420854i also made the 4th int flag which is why it looks like garbage lmao
i still want the anarcho-authoritarian flag back
>>2420864Lay down your weapons
it's not too late for my mercy
RE: Bartók's anti-fascism
>One thing that is very clear is Bartók’s anti-fascism. He loathed the Nazis and he was tormented by his own country’s increasing collaboration with the Third Reich. As Otto Deri wrote in Bela Bartók: A Portrait of His Personality Drawn from His Letters, Bartók observed the rise of fascism in 1930s Europe with profound alarm. In 1937 he refused to visit Italy. “My hatred for Italy has been so intense of late that I am simply unable to set foot on the soil of that country,” he wrote in a letter to a friend. “This might seem to be an exaggerated viewpoint, but I would like not to be disturbed, at least during my vacation, by Italian aggressiveness. I was told, however, that the Nazi poison has already penetrated into Austria, but at least there it is not so much in evidence.”
>The violist Dénes Koromzay, a member of the renowned Hungarian String Quartet, said that Bartók was “one of the most direct and outspoken men in the world” and “made such strong anti-Nazi statements that he would have been the first to be picked up by the Gestapo when they came, or even by the Hungarian Nazis when they eventually came into power”. By 1940, it was clear that Bartók could not remain in Hungary.
>>2420873I am often a raging alcoholic on here. Somtimes I finish like half a handle of liquor in a sitting. I've blackout posted in here before off the booze. I think I only get into it with the belligerent retards tho. Sometimes I'm just like, you know what, fuck it, let's finish him, instead of my usual "this doesn't matter, none of it matter." Right now I'm on RC ketamine, RC benzo, alcohol, weed and booze. I've been liking this ket and benzo, never took ket at all before, and benzos only like 1 or twice, but I've been disappointed, they're nice, but I can't say I can justify the price at all. Very weak, but nice. I finished like half of this $60 bottle of ketamine in one day and I don't think I got very high at all, I don't even have a hint of what this mysterious k-hole is. I'm hestitant to go to ham on the benzo after I've heard all the bizarre blackout stories and /r/bartard stories but it has not hit me hard at all.
>>2420875Somehow, this makes the late works more poignant
>be terminally ill and broke in New York City because staying in Hungary would have gotten you a one-way ticket to the camps>you feel deeply homesick>you've cranked out masterpiece after masterpiece, but the general public in the US doesn't give a shit, only your colleagues in the new music world care>write music that screams "Fuck you, I'm still here!">Live just long enough to see the Nazis eat shitBartok must have died with a smile on his face knowing he outlived his enemies
>>2420884If you dig around on Soulseek, you can find flac rips of the old Hungaroton Complete Bartok Edition from the 70s
When it comes to the orchestral stuff I'm pretty partial to Boulez and Fricsay. There's a new recording (new-ish, 2021) of Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta and the Concerto for Orchestra with Susanna Malkki conducting the Helsinki Philharmonic and it's pretty great
What is with the drug war? Why is it a crime to feel good? Alcohol is a way worse drug than any that have been illegalized. I've heard bizzare horror stories about these benzos but I really don't know. Maybe I need to try next some prescription Xanax or something, but maybe you guys are just retards. Look how many tragedies happen off alcohol. Just legalize all drugs. If everyone had access to potent drugs of their choosing, there would be no need for intra-venous injection which is the most horrible form of drug usage. Never fucking puncture your fucking veins you idiot. An anecdote: but my brother was paying to go to school to be a phlebotomist, and he quit after he saw how horribly the damage that phlebotomists do everyday to people's veins. Collapsing veins isn't a joke, but it is standard procedure for IV. Don't put fucking needles in your veins unless there is no other possible choice. Knocking off IV, there is still snorting/intranasal(your sensitive nasal tissues weren't made to be subject to such abuse, inhaling, or ingestion. Ingestion is by far the safest route, but the least absorbtion method, but then again, this wouldn't be a concern if people didn't have to sacrifice their livliehood to by a drug that could be bought for pennies without the war on drug bullshit.
>>2420989My best friend blames me for getting him hooked on speed.
Story: we tried it out a few times, I was paying. I never even considered speed as habit forming, or whatever.
This nüggah is now living in another country and tells his new friends that I "made him" addicted. To this day I've not shmorked a single line of speed. Don't have it, don't need it, don't want it. Fucker is a daily user, tho. Like, he's hooked, big(ly) time.
Dunno why I'm writing this post. I'm guess it hurts my feefees that this fucker blames me for "making him hooked," while in fact all I did was try the stuff out with him.
>>2420965>Just run by some zionists/jewslike literally Google? kek.
>who filter even harder than googleBS. Yandex is in fact so trash filtering, it doesn't filter at all.
you could land either on a god forsaken website, full-bot written blog, or full-ridden virus page.
that's how I found bunkerchan, back in 2014.
>>2421002Dunno what stiums are, but I guess since u and I are having this convo, I might as well share more, in a similar vein.
My ex gf, I offered her a cig, back in the day. She's now a chain smorker who blames me for "making her hooked on the stuff."
I guess there's a tendency of weak-willed ppl getting hooked on shit and blaming the person who introduced them to it as "muh making me hooked."
I just hate ppl in general.
>>2421007>Dunno what stiums areStims, short for stimulants.
>ut I guess since u and I are having this convo, I might as well share more, in a similar vein.
>My ex gf, I offered her a cig, back in the day. She's now a chain smorker who blames me for "making her hooked on the stuff."hyper homosexual shit. My girls were all smokers, but that is besides the point. Fuck what these whores say about anything, it's not rel;event to you or them. By being a pussy you are not only disappointing yourself but also them.
>I guess there's a tendency of weak-willed ppl getting hooked on shit and blaming the person who introduced them to it as "muh making me hooked."I think the majority don't look at it like that. The y were probably introduced to one substance, and then got int o a dozen substances, who is to say that one substance was what did them in.
>I just hate ppl in general.I'm with you and not. I think I really stoop to interact with these lowly animals. Like literally interacting with a dog or some other animal and I'm shaping my interactions an consciousness after how much a 1000x lower order animal reacts to me. I rather not humor that they are on the same level of consciousness as me and I can not insult them or interfere with them. We can both go our separate ways with no interference.
>>2421043Yes
>>2421045LSD
>>2421046Simply, it's a dumb ass fucking drug.
>le hehe, le haha"K"
>>2421080Sneed.
I kind of have an idea that socialism is necessarily self-exploitive and even more intensely alienating and desire-producing than capitalism.
>>2421082>Sneed.Wut
>I kind of have an idea that socialism is necessarily self-exploitive and even more intensely alienating and desire-producing than capitalism.How does your graph show that?
>>2421082>desire-producing subsistence meets needs. production for use produces subsistence. Socialism is production for use.
Desires are produced through social means, like advertising.
You know, my uncle died off alcohol, until he was fdound in his home reeking by the mail man, before that, he worked for Apple in the 90s in retainers and shit. He was an engineer. He had a plaque up at Whistle Stop in Pasadena, I member my middle school bro recounrint about witnessing Gary Oldman at the shop. He also worked on the flight controls on air force one, who cares. He drank himself to death until he was found stanking by the mail man when I was 6 years old.
Dying from drug use, whether legal or illegal, is for faggots. I remember what his mom, my grandmas said to me" "I just don't know why he couldn't handle his liquor." She was a tea-totaller, he was raised in a teatotaller religion, my mother is still a tea-toatler, but she is now an agnostic/atheist, but she is still a tea-toatler, but her sister who is still in the religion now drinks. Kill people, burn shit, fuck school.
>>2421089Most people can't handle addictive substances so the best move for the average person is not to take the chance. You just think you are invincible because of survivorship bias.
>>2421092>>2421097What was the plan here? Shoot at the cops over mowing the grass and then what? If he somehow managed to kill them he would have to leave the house and get out of the country to survive anyway making sticking around the house pointless.
>>2421118Artificially made drugs and the social control over how those drugs are distributed and consumed are not part of the natural world. It's artificial selection process for trying to get people with certain types of livers which achieves what exactly?
Also most people who die from Cirrhosis of the liver are older and had plenty of chances to pass on their genes so using most addictive substances to ween people out doesn't do much.
>>2421144I'm a 35 and I have done pretty much every drug there is. I haven't done , PCP, whatever hobo drugs like robotrippin or whatever. I've done, ritalin, destroamphetamine, methamphetamine, crack, galaxy gas, weed, benzos, ssris, anti-psychotics, hydrocodone, ativan, xanax, some other benzos, mescaline, shrooms, MDMA, uh right now the wtwo I mentioned RC Ket and RC benzo, oh and Salvia but anyways.
Do mescaline. That's the move. Just do mescaline. That's the drug. Everyone needs to do mescaline.
>>2421153Speaking, having smoked crack on multiple occasions, the crackheads chastized me for not torching it right, but anyways, I still think I smoked a normal amount. I think that shit just made me feel straight, maybe it harkens back to me ADHD days when I was prescribed like 40mg amphetamines daily before I hit puberty, but that stim shit aint shit to me. I was smoking with this crack head hobo prostitute on the strteet and she would say about a "crack attack" after she hit, whatever that means. Me personally it just felt like extreme caffienation let's say but much better and clearer. No jitter. I think the danger with them the stims is they get you off the 24 hour sleep schedule. You can stay up for 36 48 72 hours and feel fine, but course that is not fine, and you are damaging your brain and body. They're too powerful, but if used responsibly are super powered.
Pro-Trump group wages campaign to purge “subversive” federal workers
Federal employees faced a barrage of intimidation and harassment after a group linked to the Trump administration posted their personal information on online “watchlists” denouncing them as liberals. Some have been fired. Two have moved abroad, fearing for their safety.
https://www.reuters.com/investigations/pro-trump-group-wages-campaign-purge-subversive-federal-workers-2025-08-07/>>2421174that challenges my statement how? there was a dude with a gun, the tanks rolled in and they shot him.
guess you are a burger which is why you think this is normal
>>2421193Fascism level 1
Fascism level 2
Fascism level 3
Very diverse
>>24211931. Internal diversity of thought does not automatically equal more correct, that’s just right-wing virtue signaling
2. Like others pointed out, defining the “left” as democrats to the exclusion of socialists and anarchists is a pretty severe weakness in the study’s methodology
>>2421193>>2421222i would say that the left often displays cult behaviour, which is why if you say a wrong thing you are automatically seen as the enemy (heretic) and excommunicated. the phenomena of "leaving the left" is part of this constriction where new rules are added and cannot be kept up with. the left is also much more censorious than the right for the same reason. its quite dualistic thinking. like many other religions, you have foundational scripture which do not need to be read yo have loyalty towards. thats why marx is used hermeneutically, like a theologian interpreting the bible.
>>2421225so you expect the radical left to be more open or closed-minded than the democrats? anon's point is about how the left think more narrowly than the right, not any opinion in particular. he is right and this nitpicking and lack of reading comprehension is extremely irritating.
>>2421229Because I’m disputing how this study is being used to frame the issue.
Diversity of thought is good and the left needs more, but going “uhhhhh right more diverse left is meanies” is just missing the forest for the trees.
You can have as much diversity as you want, it only matters if your side’s basic axioms aren’t dogshit. Otherwise it’s just the modern version of medieval monks debating how many angels can fit on the head of a pin: irrelevant yapping that does t solve anything
>>2421229>which is why if you say a wrong thing you are automatically seen as the enemy (heretic) and excommunicated.Everyone does this shit.
It goes deeper than left or right.
>>2421231the way to defeat your opponent is to inhabit their framing by appropriating it for your own use. thats what the "chad" meme is about:
>you are X haha<yes, in fact. problem?>>2421233>virtue signallingto whom?
>>2421232>>2421234who are some people that were kicked out of the right for not following orthodoxy? the right is not a consolidated mass, but a disparate grouping of anti-left opponents; they occupy a negative space, so cannot be disqualified from it. this is why metapolitics matters.
>>2421238>loading the definition of “right” in bad faithYeah not buying it, left and right are both terms with substantive positive meanings
>to whom?Fellow right-wingers and potential recruits. The headline is easy meme fodder
> the way to defeat your opponent is to inhabit their framing by appropriating it for your own use. thats what the "chad" meme is about<muh memes are arguments >>2421243>left and right are both terms with substantive positive meaningsno theyre not. leftism is positively oriented, while the right is simply a negative reaction against the left. it has no internal principle, only opposition - thats why it can be so diverse, while the left is narrow.
>Fellow right-wingers and potential recruits.who is right-wing here?
>muh memes are arguments yes.
>>2421245excommunicated for being a heretic
>>2421249the left is much more narrowly bunched into fundamental principles
>>2421252>excommunicated for being a hereticNo one says this outright when they kick someone out, so I still don't know what you mean. If you mean "enemy" like you previously said, then vid related is my personal favorite example.
>the left is much more narrowly bunched into fundamental principlesNah, the only real metric is if your ideological leaning makes a meaningful attempt to leave and replace capitalism with a system that broadly falls under the umbrella of socialism.
>For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained. They took into consideration the causes affecting the current of events. They strived to amass great and substantive material wealth which they devoted to the realisation of their dream. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there.
>With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.They aim at undermining societies, destroying values, corrupting consciences, deteriorating character and annihilating Islam. It is behind the drug trade and alcoholism in all its kinds so as to facilitate its control and expansion.
>The imperialistic forces in the Capitalist West and Communist East, support the enemy with all their might, in money and in men. These forces take turns in doing that. The day Islam appears, the forces of infidelity would unite to challenge it, for the infidels are of one nation.
>Nationalist Movements in the Palestinian Arena. The Islamic Resistance Movement respects these movements and appreciates their circumstances and the conditions surrounding and affecting them. It encourages them as long as they do not give their allegiance to the Communist East or the Crusading West.
>Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.
>Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
>"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).https://avalon.law.yale.edu/21st_century/hamas.asp >>2421271>No one says this outrightyes they do. they say "i left the left", or "the left, left me". the left is also concerned with purifying itself, so it calls anyone it finds disfavourable a reactionary, despite protests of one's identity in the church. there are people who call themselves leftists who are treated as right-wingers, but there are no people who call themselves right-wing who people regard as secretly leftist. its a one-way street, since leftism is a positive identity of belonging to certain political fashions; it is like the christian confession of faith - if you cannot call yourself a leftist, then you are right-wing (and i agree), yet there are those whose faith is still questioned.
>I still don't know what you meanwhen the right splinters, it just creates more right-wing groups - when the left splinters, there is a schism, and the opposing churches call the others illegitimate. thats why there is no such thing as left unity, while the right is inherently unified against the left.
>leave and replace capitalism with a system that broadly falls under the umbrella of socialism.this is a tremendously silly and ahistorical view of political positions. lets say theres a guy who wants to collectivise industry and all the rest, but at the same time, wants an ethnostate and wants to criminalise queer lifestyles - is he a leftist? lets say theres a guy who wants to reverse the industrial revolution and capitalism; is he a leftist?
>>2421282You just know this bitch would cry foul if she’s treated how she acts.
The golden rule goes both ways.
>>2421200>The researchers are morons if this is really how they framed that studyyes
> this is not the fault of the journalists interpretation.journalists at bourgeois rags act as stenographers for the ruling class so their job is to uncritically report the bourgeois framing of things as the objective and neutral reality.
>>2421317they need to go to canada lol
>>2421316if they try they're just idiots
>>2421325modern american politics cannot be reasonably compared to that, i think you just have a particularly bleak view of things before we've seen any sign of it happening
>>2421322they're not very smart, but arresting zohran would do nothing to help them, it's better to just let them win once and then when zohran can't really save it, let it burn out and die
>>2421303>yes they do. they say "i left the left", or "the left, left me".That's not the same thing as directly screeching "herectic" while kicking someone out, but sure. There are grifters from various political angles on youtube that love making "I left the X" or whatever. The far right mostly spends its energy searching out liberalism, or "neocons", in its ranks rather than leftists. And neocons spend their time searching out RINOs. Right now it's very fashionable to be a memester and make political gestures towards the very online. Everyone purity tests.
>when the right splinters, it just creates more right-wing groups - when the left splinters, there is a schism, and the opposing churches call the others illegitimateI love word play but this doesn't say much. The MAGA right recently schismed with the Nick Fuentes wing and now they bicker with each other about who is legitimate.
>ahistorical view of political positions.OK, point me out your anti-gay, ethnostate supporting, leftist in history, then.
>lets say theres a guy who wants to reverse the industrial revolution and capitalism; is he a leftist?To what? Like primitive communism? Yeah, we have those. They're called AnPrims.
>>2421355There’s a clip of a Turning Point conference where a speaker compares Israel to “a friend that takes you to bars and starts bar fights he expects you to join” and said we should stop giving them “welfare” to cheers.
I think Boomers are still reliant on mainstream news and the residual memory of shitty Israeli movies like Delta Force.
>>2421351To play devil’s advocate here, if you say you’re a leftist your chances of being told you’re a secret fascist by other leftists dramatically increases—if you deviate from internet MLism you’re fash, if you’re an ML you’re a “red fash”, if you aren’t a Sakaist you’re a fascist, on and on it goes. I’d say the Left as a whole is way more exclusionary.
>>2421351>That's not the same thing as directly screeching "herectic"it happens every day on this website. the curse word of "reactionary" or "liberal" or whatever else has this power to shame and silence opposition, like someone being accused of witchcraft. the right have no such method, since as i say, only the left is truly censorious.
>"I left the X" its "i left the left". its one-way.
>Everyone purity testsno they dont. the right have disagreement, but are never seen as illegitimate or disqualified from being right-wing. thats why cuckservatives can disagree with dissidents, but both empower each other, while the left burns its heretics at the stake.
>The MAGA right recently schismed with the Nick Fuentes wing and now they bicker with each other about who is legitimate.would MAGA ever call nick a leftist? would nick ever call MAGA leftist? no.
>OK, point me out your anti-gay, ethnostate supporting, leftist in history, then.you are too obtuse to understand the hypothetical. my point is that leftism ≠ anticapitalism; anticapitalism is a contingent aspect of a broader leftism. same way rightism ≠ capitalism. these are incorrect axes to work off of, since you can oppose capitalism and still be right-wing, and vice versa.
>anprimsare anprims leftist? no.
>>2421360To be honest I think the Golden Rule is meant more for people like Loomer; you put hate in the world and you get hate back. Ultimately I don’t think it’s trying to encourage doormat behavior.
Like, me personally, I’m a big dude. My whole life I’d get people who were way smaller than me trying to start shit: shoving, spitting, tripping me up, insulting me, etc. If I did anything about it I’d hear “pick on someone your own size” from whatever authority figure was near while the smaller dude would do some “oh I’m just a smol bean” kind of routine. I don’t think the golden rule is supposed to mean “let people walk over you.”
There are quite a few passages in the Bible where Jesus makes it clear that, given a choice between the letter and the spirit of the law, you should follow the spirit of it. And since the problem of injustice is a huge aspect of Christ’s teachings, I think he could forgive having contempt for people like Loomer.
>>2421378>the culture that exists between women is a net positive for themt. moid
> they're starting to be prioritized for hire More like immediately demoted and/or fired as soon as they go on maternity leave. You know nothing about women.
>>2421365Someone on here said something a month or two ago, that was like “most progressive arguments rely on the Motte & Bailey” and it kind of stuck with me, I’m inclined to agree.
Like I know this is diverging from your point on the right doing 180s and getting praise for it, but to me it sort of all connects to itself. When you’re outside these movements it’s portrayed as the easiest thing in the world to join; an example would be: do you think women should vote and not be literal property of the men in their life? Congrats, you’re a feminist. Do you call yourself a feminist? Well, if you ever roll your eyes at some dude saying “Men are the WORST” you suddenly lose that label. It’s portrayed as something so simple that by virtue of being alive you fall under the label, but then actually identifying with it means it can be revoked at any time. And you never know what’s gonna set someone off and have them declare you’re not just not in the in group, you’re in the hated and despised outgroup.
You get Socialism, right? Well maybe you portray it to regular people as: “even kids get it, if they saw one kid with a hundred toys and one kid with none, they’d ask him to share.” Well if you mistakenly say you’re a socialist after that, you’ll be told you actually aren’t because “those toys are products of imperialism and all you’re really asking for is to share stolen goods equally.”
On the right, the only real requirement is that you hate the left, broadly defined—and because the left can be so dramatic and prone to the most bitter internal hatreds, you’ve got no end of converts who’ll talk about how they “left the left.”
Honestly I think that’s the source of a lot of young dudes who went right wing around 2015-16 or so. You get some guys who probably thought of themselves as “on the left” because they voted Obama, were cool with gay marriage, and broadly sympathetic to Occupy, and then they get hounded with a bunch of progressive rhetoric that says, explicitly, “you’re bad, you’re an awful person, you need to atone, you suck, the world would be better with less of you.” Well, the more involved these guys were with “the left” broadly defined, the more of a betrayal it feels like—the more angry they get. And the only response is just to mock them for it; “Oh, I hurt your little feelings and now you’re some kind of Nazi or something? Fuck you.” It’s a perverse celebration of the fact you turned someone into a die-hard enemy of yours.
A local example I keep harkening back to is some folks that were involved in a Maoist group out here. They put in work, did mutual aid, had a little stand where they tried to hand out pamphlets, good people. Then this guy joins and he’s all into Sakai, it’s “settlers this” and “settlers that” he’s abrasive as fuck and pretty rude to a few of these people. Well one day one of them gets so exhausted that he posts on Facebook something like:
>”if I hear the word settlers one more time I’m gonna smack a bitch.”Instantly the dude who’s into Settlers accuses them of threatening to kill him. The dude and his closest comrades are given some tribunal where they’re told to self-crit (basically say they’re awful people and should apologize to the guy being a cunt to them) or leave. They left. This was a group they devoted years to and lots of effort for, and they were cast out instantly. They looked for other leftist orgs, but their old org followed them and accused them of “wanting to lynch a black man”.
Thankfully they found a new org that blew the Maoists off, but if they didn’t? I wouldn’t even fault them for going right wing. I’d feel bad if my coworkers didn’t like me, being viscerally despised by an org you worked for for months? It’s traumatic. And if people joke “hurr, you became a nazi because we were mean!” All I can say is that one of the earliest pushers for antisemitic pogroms in the medieval world was himself a converted Jewish man with a chip on his shoulder.
>>2421392>Neither liberal imperialism or islamic fundamentalism are goodliberal imperialism funded and armed islamic fundamentalists against secularizing forces in the region because keeping wahabists and salafists in place as a constant source of terror has helped the imperialist divide and conquer and plunder the entire MENA region, as well as other regions.
>the picture show how shitholie the life of woman under islamic fundamentalism isAfghanistan was secularizing under socialists before the liberal imperialists in the CIA stepped in with Operation Cyclone, which started not even under Reagan but under Jimmy Carter through Zbigniew Brzezinski, both arch-liberal imperialists.
>but the solution is not bombing them using NATO forcesYet this is what liberal imperialists did! It's what they did to Yugoslavia too!
>>2421282Throwing a stone in a glass house here. Maybe Judaism and Catholics has some later commentary making up age rules for marriage but it's not in the Bible itself. Most Protestant denominations have no age requirement for marriage because of this. That's the reason child marriage still legally happens in many conservative American states today. Doubt she will ever bring that up.
>>2421365It comes from a difference of position. Tucker and Hinkle are independent media personalities who have some flexibility in jumping around. In fact their media careers reward drumming up controversy by going against the common line of their main audiences. But the many average leftists probably built their social and political life around a particular group. Makes them more willing to go overboard in conforming to the group in order to stay in it.
>>2421394Yes yes the right is all open arms and the left isn't at all. Now let me store this mentally away with the other instances of political observers bemoaning that their own side is exclusionary while the other side is inclusive, including a ton of right wingers who think the left is a united monolith.
Seriously have you ever considered that you personally just might really hate this SJW-ish stuff and that you have a hard time grappling with your emotions? I'm of fucking East Asian descent and I get shit on by everyone else, imagine being a fucking Chinese-American in these days lmao, it's a fucking curse. But ultimately who cares? If I had to take seriously the ramblings of some blue haired lib that I'm white-adjacent and I need to check my anti-blackness or an insane wignat telling me that I'm hopelessly inferior because I don't have the predator eyes of a superior Japanese samurai I would've killed myself a long time ago. Grow a fucking pair of testicles.
>>2421407Permanent settled society.
>>2421408That's s problem door the different societies post incubation
>>2421388i ask a simple question and you completely sperg out
mental instability - a possible chemical imbalance.
>>2421444Let's retrace the conversation.
you:
> the right have disagreement, but are never seen as illegitimate or disqualified from being right-wing(this was wrong)me (proving you wrong):
>liberals are right wing (you had no counter argument to this)
>but are basically accused of being full on Communists nonstop by their fellow conservative capitalist right wingers(you had no counter argument to this either, and anyone can see this happening for decades now, for example Obama was a liberal imperialist but was slandered as Muslim communist by the right)
you:
>what makes liberals right-wing?(this is what you said rather than counter arguing, the implication of course being that you are skeptical that liberals are right wing. what could possibly be the motivation for that?)
me:
>thanks for proving me right by excluding them from your camp(you never denied being right wing after this btw, this entire conversation is just you implying that liberals and the communists are the same thing)
> even though they essentially uphold imperialism, colonialism, and capitalism, albeit with a fake veneer of progressiveness and, increasingly, woke idpol discourse.(I attached an image from the Bush years of "women's rights" being used as an excuse by that conservative-liberal capitalist imperialist regime to justify its attacks on Afghanistan, which btw right wing fundamentalists were in power in Afghanistan directly as a result of operation cyclone which has been memory-holed)
So do you have an answer for any of this or are you going to continue sperging out and accusing me of sperging out while you have nothing to say? Everyone can easily read this conversation and figure out what you're trying to do because we have years of repeats of these same conversations over and over. For the right, the formula is
Liberals = Communists = "The Left" = "Not Right"
But that's wrong. It's simply right wingers trying to purge their own moderate flank (the liberals) so they can make shit even worse without any kind of moderation, even from an imperialist, capitalist force internal to their own ranks.
Who else would start a conversation with the cringe ass 10+ year old anticommunist meme from
>>2421366 US TO ANNEX ARMENIAN ZANGEZUR CORRIDOR (someone should do an /armenia/ again, like everytime Armenia loose territory)
>Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev and Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan are to join Trump at the White House for talks and the signing ceremony, the U.S. officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
>They are to sign a framework aimed at reaching a "concrete pathway to peace" and addressing a long-simmering transit issue, the officials said.
Azerbaijan has asked for a transport corridor through Armenia, linking the bulk of its territory to Nakhchivan, an Azerbaijani enclave that borders Baku's ally Turkey.
Under a carefully negotiated section of the documents the leaders will sign on Friday, Armenia plans to award the United States exclusive special development rights for an extended period on a transit corridor that will be named the Trump Route for International Peace and Prosperity, and known by the acronym TRIPP, the officials said.
>The route will be operated according to Armenian law and the United States will sublease the land to a consortium for infrastructure and management, the officials said.
>"Through commercial means, this step will unlock the region and avert further hostilities," one of the officials said.
>The Armenian and Azerbaijani leaders will also sign documents requesting the dissolution of the Minsk Group, which has been co-chaired by France, Russia and the United States since its establishment in 1992 to mediate the conflict, the officials said.
>>2421366> the right have no such method, since as i say, only the left is truly censorious.They're more concerned with liberalism. The center presents more of a threat for infiltration to them. Likewise, it's certain identities that are typically seen as threatening. The "transhumanist", "jew", or "woke" is the most recent bugbear used to ignore or silence people.
>the right have disagreement, but are never seen as illegitimate or disqualified from being right-wingIt depends if they sin in spirit. If they do things that are too "soy" you will face ostracization or have to at least change sects of the right. Both progressives and conservatives are liberals that are fine with maintaining capitalism. The far right also isn't trying to end capitalism. It makes sense they get a \long because it's really not that much of a difference.
>would MAGA ever call nick a leftist?No, because they are too invested in calling him one of the heretical identities like "gay".
> my point is that leftism ≠ anticapitalismScroll up. I was pretty careful with how I framed this. What I said was "makes a meaningful attempt to leave and replace capitalism with a system that broadly falls under the umbrella of socialism". I said this with the understanding that there are anti-capitalists in history that in practice are capitalists.
>are anprims leftist? no.Eh, they're post-leftists that are strategically flawed, but still trying to build socialism. I would say the milieu they came out of was leftist. I don't fuck with post leftism much tho. Someone else here probably has a better opinion on AnPrims.
>>2421394This is true and not just with the Left
Its because political people in the West are ultimately puritans, people just think that if you do a bad no good thing then you are a sinner that should be smited by God
Oh you disagree with the concept of inequal exchange? You are a settler imperialist. You support Ukraine? You are literally a Nazi. You think Oct 7 is a strategic disaster and Hamas should be hold accountable for this, you are an iSSraeli apologist
(The same applies in the other direction btw. If you so much believe that Americans hardly suffered from capitalism or that settler imperialism is an important factor in the American political culture you will be immediately tarred as an insane radical Maoist)
Unironically religious people have a better way of handling this than politics people. You can sin, but there is a degree of difference in sins. For example, one of my comrade might be slightly bigoted against queer people, and the other is racist against Indians; but ultimately both can restrain themselves and work with other comrades from minority groups. This should lead me to judge it as "minor sins' on the level of masturbating or drunkenness; something that is unfortunate but ultimately not something that much important.
That is not how political people see it thought. Even minor difference is enough to put you into the "enemy group" on the level of Adolph Hitler
>>2421472I think what’s important is that other religions have ritual for the “overcoming of sin” as it were; begging forgiveness from a deity, invoking some sacrament, etc etc. I think even Islam has a method that’s like telling God “I fucked up, I’m gonna try to not fuck up again.”
By contrast politics here are extremely Calvinist in a way. You’re either damned or saved and things like sin or virtue are just hinting towards what camp you’re in.
>>2421495What you're saying is nothing but apologia for yourself and your right wing party. You're trying to come up with excuses for why you're so far right, as if it will absolve you in the end.
It won't.
>>2421499Actually I was providing an anecdote that you, being a genuine idiot acting in bad faith, extrapolated as an iron rule. If I were to say “Oh this restaurant is bad, the servers told me to go fuck myself, and they spit in my food” you would exclaim “Oh yeah, everyone who doesn’t eat here had someone spit in their food. Sure buddy.”
You literally only argue in bad faith because you like this culture of just insular hostility. Trying to reason you out of a position is pointless because you’ve got the mind of a crack addict.
>>2421498I mean I see this plenty in radical spaces, take this anon for example:
>>2421499 >>2421505Except you don’t know a thing about my politics, you just make psychotic exclamations about what they are and always infer in bad faith.
Shit I posted my ballot on here years ago and someone tried to claim I was voting against affordable housing for… reasons? Don’t even think that was a bill up for vote, but you retards never let reality get in the way of vibes.
>>2421503Both you and your party are objectively right wing and you deserve any and all cruelties you suffer.
In a civilized society national socialists like you would be hounded to suicide or dragged into a basement and shot but unfortunately we don't live there yet.
>>2421472>Its because political people in the West are ultimately puritans, people just think that if you do a bad no good thing then you are a sinner that should be smited by Godif you turn this idea around it's a condemnation about how the west cannot fundamentally organize any sort of revolution. The question of identity politics collapses huge systemic phenomena into YOUR personal experience vis-a-vis systems of oppression, and how YOU might contribute to it on an individual basis and it is downstream from core western ideological principles. It's the sort of impulse that drives, say, hazites into breaking down "working class" people into ever so smaller categories, like "PMCs" or "baristas" because the question itself gets boiled down to how YOU experience capitalism. The actual analysis is foregone in favor of a working class olympics, about how much you identify with the working class. There's no escaping identity politics or "woke moralism" it because what was vomitted from american protestantism is this nonsense, it's this blurry mass of waging the individual's moral worth, an ideological necessity of american liberalism in order to administer the misery it produces, is what is buried deep down into every american. Evangelicals escape it because they have an unmovable negative ethics of prohibition, instead of a relative net of permissions.
>>2421511Kind of weird to say “I don’t use crackhead in a negative sense” but I’ll take you at your word.
That said the conversations I’ve had in vaguely leftish spaces IRL have had plenty of passive aggressive sniping, bad faith, and pointless dick measuring.
>>2421519I mean, you could create a collectivized identity around being a worker in America given we’re “unique” in having more mass shootings than any country on earth, maybe the worst healthcare system of any developed nation, etc. but the problem is a good portion of the American left is genuinely just ashamed of the category they were born into and want to escape it. They despise the idea of being just some shlubby American worker so they adopt other identities.
Lemme give an example; the black panthers said, essentially, white Marxists should try to organize white workers to be sympathetic to class struggle. Instead you got groups like “The White Panthers” which basically wanted to do nothing but tail the black panthers as white people, or the Weather Underground which talked endlessly about how much it loved the Black Panthers but refused to organize white workers because, again, they were third worldists.
Literally you’ve got everything you need to make shit work here, but we’ve got this insane group psychology where if someone has no shoes, someone has one shoe, and another guy has 3, people would rather shame the guy with one shoe than try to get both to go after the guy with 3
>>2421533Why is the natsoc schitzo not banned?
He's been shitting up the thread for years with bad faith arguments, claiming everyone hates him because he's a white American, he literally ruins every left wing space he touches which is why he can't stop talking about how he's not welcome in any of them.
Just let him scream into the void about how feminism scares him.
>>2421534The problem is that American imperialism is literally killing the world and you're making constant apologies for it in hopes that it will make YOUR life better.
The funny thing is, it won't even do that, but that doesn't stop you from trying.
>>2421576This was a shooting at a grocery store. They had 15 police departments there and over 100 cops. They even used a fire truck for swat guys to get on the roof, they used a swat terrydyne to break the wall of the grocery store and left an injured officer in the store for about half an hour.
They took forever to help the people and when they walked in the guy immediately gave himself up.
>>2421453I'm willing to bet that this faggot would have a lot to say about women doing false rape accusations against men they dont like
But when hoes are doing it for racism and white supremacy its all ok
Fucking bitchass crackkkers
>>2421594At 21:55 the supervisor literally suggests shooting the guy, in a moving vehicle, in a busy road, because they can't catch him.
They're so fucking dumb.
>>2421583>Cops constantly escalate situationsDe-escalation is for PUSSIES
Cops are WARRIORS in ENEMY TERRITORY
civilian populations are POTENTIAL INSURGENTS
>>2421583Look at this one. This guy walked into a senior home with a literal chainsaw. The cop stands in front of him saying he is going to taze him. The guy takes forever to turn on the chainsaw with a bunch of elderly people who can't walk around him at all. The cop literally does nothing and is extremely lucky the guy was a retard who can't use a chainsaw and didn't want to do violence
The guy could have killed well over a dozen of elderly people while the cop stood there holding a taser pointed at him.
>>2421600This one a woman is being held in a gas station bathroom at knife point while she screams at top of her lungs. A worker called police to tell them and a customer outside told them to hurry up and run inside
The cop just stands there looking at bathroom hearing screams for minutes. Then sees next cop show up and says should wait for more backup they are clearly both scared. Then a cop finally shows up and opens bathroom and arrest guy. The woman was cut up. They both got fired
>>2421612Also people don't realize that getting into a shootout isnt part of the usual cop experience
This is unlike a forensic doctor or a paramedic. Getting into nasty bloody situations is their usual duty
>>2421615The cops are also largely incompetent for calming a person down when a situation involves mental health distress or their emotions are getting out of control not necessary fully in aggression but they are panicking. You will occasionally see one who is good at it probably from skills they developed in life having nothing to do with being a cop.
While I have seen firefighters/medics who sit down in a non judgemental way and ask them how are doing calmly and they chill out.
>>2421574I mean fundamentally I see “white identity politics” as furthering the problem of useless distractions from building cohesion, but the problem lies in this being both ways. I think what I saw in uni only perpetuates this issue and division; like I remember ages ago on some article back while Trump was still just a candidate that “white racial consciousness was on the rise”; as in, white people statistically hadn’t really thought of themselves as “white” in some meaningful way prior to that. Some commenter on it had a snide remark like:
>”we kept telling white people they had to think about race and now that they are they’re desperately telling them to stop”I don’t agree with the implied glee in the statement, but I do see a parallel. Ultimately all that idpol shit merely hardens battle lines.
Of course I think that kind of reflects universities trend towards liberal individualism. It’s in the labor force that you start developing an “us” rather than college’s “you and I”.
As for the cure? To some extent I think a civic nationalism can bridge the most serious divides, the the greatest extent of that “positive” nationalism could be achieved when there’s no longer a material difference in the economic status of white and black Americans (not to discount any others) but the superstructure can perhaps start being constructed through education and integration—maybe a public holiday given the same level of reverence as thanksgiving in which the end of Jim Crow is celebrated and public space is given over to diverse events meant to foster friendships across racial lines. Food, unlike just a parade, is a great way to bring people together. The ultimate goal of which is the dissolution of the minor categories of “American” into a greater whole; or in layman’s terms: get the white American to see himself in the plight of the black American rather than reflecting them as “the other”. Not being some “outside savior” or some oppressor, but genuinely seeing the people stomped down and hyper exploited by the planters or the sheriffs of the south as their brothers or sisters or even themselves.
As for why I said civic nationalism (even that is a poor approximation for what I’m trying to describe) over worker identity? Well I believe “American” is de facto a more tangible thing at present. On the right you’ve got some people absurdly insisting Elon Musk is “with the working class” or that a guy who owns a small business in a blue collar trade is working class. On the Left, at present, the “working class” expands globally and is subdivided into further identity categories which perpetuate enmity between “imperial” workers and third world workers, or “labor aristocrat” baristas and “real” construction workers.
Ultimately the only way to confront the various crises of capital within our borders and finally turn off the great machine of exploitation is with a unified effort of the people within this country. The means by which you get them to unify matters inasmuch as whether it will work, I think.
>>2421613>Yeah this is very accurate. Essentially what I have seen yeah>>2421615>Also people don't realize that getting into a shootout isnt part of the usual cop experienceYeah it isn't that common for them. They get into more brawls. Do the math, there are around 750,000 cops in the U.S. before counting federal agencies, and around 1,000~ shootings involving cops per year.
I've experienced that kind of adrenaline from violence once (it was minor, not involving gunfire or anything) and it was a very weird feeling. It's hard to describe but I probably won't ever forget it. It's like time slows down but you feel like you're on meth too (although I've never done meth). I don't know what I would've looked like to other people.
>>2421615>This is unlike a forensic doctor or a paramedic. Getting into nasty bloody situations is their usual dutyThey get desensitized to it so it just becomes their job. I met someone recently who did that for a living. She wasn't a cop but whatever agency handled the cleanup, mid-40s lesbian who had that kind of serious but unemotional deadpan expression that I've really only seen Russians be the masters at.
>>2421607I remember seeing that one with a buddy, we were both yelling at the cops to just charge in. Though some of the other bodycam footage was more fucked imo, there was one where a woman basically killed her malnourished 4 year old out of anger and hid him in this fridge downstairs, one of the cops nearly puked and when he found out the other kids in the house saw the body he was just talking about how he wanted to kill the bitch who did it, could kind of understand that.
There was another where it seemed to me they earnestly tried to de-escalate and the guy ran anyways, though I suppose they could’ve said something like “what can I do to make you feel more at ease?”
>>2421621>I mean fundamentally I see “white identity politics” as furthering the problem of useless distractions It is not a useless distraction especially in your context of "civic nationalism" which is idpol by any other name. Once again in your example you centered the *feelings* of white people who *feel* that whiteness has begun to be litigated just a few decades ago. The truth is, as I already explained, that (racial) identity is an existential need of american liberalism, insofar as it provides a post-hoc justification to its own misery it produces. In that sense "whiteness" as a political category is deeply interlinked with the very conception of America. It is not a superficial identity that opaques material relations, but a pillar of American ideology that provides a justification to its own foundational violence. The sad thing is that you're not even the first person to try and launder the concept of america, you don't get a single point of originality here, of course liberals who refuse to relinquish imperial spoils do it too, each time they mention america is a "nation of immigrants". And of course, each and every time they receive backlash from reactionaries, because the sleight of hand is obvious, is it not? Divorcing the concept of "whiteness" from america is impossible, you can merely suppress it, but reactoids are not *that* stupid, they know what's up, the concept of whiteness is being put into question once again. Thus they complete the degenerate circuit of american politics that has existed since its inception. Of course, in your usual myopic inspidness, you don't even bother contending with the fact that labor being globalized means that there's no material means to address the crisis of capital within the american borders. It is a global crisis and the only means of addressing a global crisis of capital is through a globalized proletarian, of course, that means getting rid of the useless american identity and put a definite end to endless retreadings of race and national identity, something americans are, once again, incapable of doing. your entrerpise is doomed to fail, but everyone here knows this already, they're just entertaining your stupid rants.
>>2421642>Of course, in your usual myopic inspidness, you don't even bother contending with the fact that labor being globalized means that there's no material means to address the crisis of capital within the american borders. It is a global crisis and the only means of addressing a global crisis of capital is through a globalized proletarian, of course, that means getting rid of the useless american identity and put a definite end to endless retreadings of race and national identity, something americans are, once again, incapable of doing.Wasn’t there a guy from Chagos who was acting all tough a few months ago then admitted they couldn’t do anything to end imperialism on their own?
Well good luck to the rest of the world I suppose, but it doesn’t look like JDPON is ever gonna happen.
>>2421654If you try jumping off a roof because you think you can fly if you flap your arms hard enough, it ain’t my job to feed your delusions.
You can’t even organize a book club, let alone a town, a city, a country, and you’re just absurdly insisting “actually the solution is to get everyone on earth to unite—including a portion that you actively despise and try to explain will be worse off than before—to overthrow Capitalism.”
It’s a fucking pipe dream. You’re no closer to it now then you were a year ago, at this point it’s more axiomatic faith than theory.
>>2421392anon, even MBS came out saying that it's the US that loves to finance Sunni Wahhabism Salafists. if it weren't for the fucking US there won't be wahhabism.
that, and eastern european nazi collaborators after wwII. basically liberals love to finance these people.
>>2421361>To play devil’s advocate here, if you say you’re a leftist your chances of being told you’re a secret fascist by other leftists dramatically increases—if you deviate from internet MLism you’re fash, if you’re an ML you’re a “red fash”, if you aren’t a Sakaist you’re a fascist, on and on it goes. I’d say the Left as a whole is way more exclusionary.as long you support in the slightest any lies, any psyop, any violent imperial puppet, yes.
the basics principles of individuals practicing communism are:
SOLIDARITYNON-SECTARIANANTI-IMPERIALISTany other thing is stranding ideologies that will in the meantime amount to nothing or simply become reactionary counter-revolutionaries that'll jump into liberalism or worst, conservatism or fascism.
I do think that any revolution that happens in America to bring communism needs to be Futurist in its outlook. That is to say, we have to reject the past and stop relying on it for propaganda or strategy, whether it's invoking Lincoln and Washington or the American Revolution or trying to LARP as Lenin and recreate the Bolshevik Revolution. An American communism, whatever form it ends up taking, will be an ad hoc experience that will be defined by its actions in the revolution and civil war, a baptism by fire that will purify the ideological distinctions and squabbles between Marxists and Anarchists into a cohesive whole out of what survives. And we need to focus on the future because it is the future where we will be living the rest of our lives, to paraphrase Ed Wood if I may.
CPUSAnon and the CPUSA at large may be well intentioned in trying to invoke the spectres of America's past to craft an image of communism "as American as apple pie" but the truth of the matter is that in doing so even just for propaganda purposes we risk chaining ourself to the past and all the baggage and expectations that come with it. As communists we are not trying to RETVRN to some past ideal, nor are we just fixing what's wrong right now, but on building a brighter tomorrow today, and we cant do that if we're clinging to old symbols. Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to
>>2421659>I just said that organizing around american identity, and especially, around fixing the issues of capital within the american borders is impossible, the latter is a goal that will never be met due to the global division of labor.
>"I don't have any healthcare, I'm in a ton of debt, some antisocial freak just shot up my kid's school, this country is falling apart at the seams and something should be done."<"No no no! You gotta wait 'till the Brazilians give us permission first! Then the Philippines, then the Senegalese. We have to cry and say we're sorry, and then maybe if they're lucky they'll say they'll allow us to try to overthrow the government!"There are problems a plenty out here to organize around, trying to say "wait wait wait! We gotta include the people of Chagos!" serves absolutely no purpose beyond delaying organization, bloating messaging, and weighting people who want their struggles addressed
now down with the struggles of people they don't even know exist.
"B-but Capitalism is global!" Is always the fucking excuse for never trying to focus on issues here, but the simple reality is that for as global as Capital is, Capitalist "solidarity" if it can be called that isn't bound to the absolutely smallest and most cumbersome link in the chain. When Capitalists in America want to open a factory in Myanmar, they either bribe the local bourgeoise or crush them if they don't comply, but they aren't fucking shackled by them.
>Also, global organization is an issue that capitalists have have overcome for at least 3 decades.Show me a single Capitalist that will fucking weep and say he can't run his business because of the comparatively poorer sweatshop owners above. They don't fucking care, that's the thing. And you're insisting that the best balm to a force that can act dynamically and is situated
right fucking here is to do the exact opposite and constantly,
constantly strive for some perfect consensus with everyone else on earth.
I genuinely do not give a fuck whether it makes some fucking Marxist in Nepal's tummy hurt if he learned Americans were fighting their own government to deal with the healthcare and housing crisis right in front of them: fuck 'em if they do, we're not bound by them. There are problems here that can be taken advantage of to yield progressive outcomes if we just stopped giving a shit about how minor our problems are compared to someone else's.
>>2421664it's funny how you completely miss the point cpussy anon was making and in a way just prove it to be true.
obviously leftist values at their core are very simple and easy to digest but trying to actually engage with leftists under those terms just turns into constant dumb purity tests over what constitutes imperialism or whether China is right when they say LGBT ideology is just western liberal propaganda or whatever. And the best part is, none of this is remotely consistent either. If you go to a DSA meeting and tell them Pride is Liberal ideological rot you'll get kicked out and probably physically assaulted. In fact American Leftism is so out of whack with the rest of the world's Leftist movements that we have no allies basically.
>>2421649>Wasn’t there a guy from Chagos who was acting all tough a few months ago then admitted they couldn’t do anything to end imperialism on their own?the solution is simple, but then everyone will call you MSS, FSB, VOVAK, MOIS. GRU, SVR, CMC, RAW, RGB, or PKA paid actor, the same way we accuse people of working for the three letter US agencies.
ask them how would they get a revolution, and you'll see them imagining a whole bunch of things that will never happen because there isn't anthropological evidence that revolutions had happened without external support.
no one dismantles a state without the help of other states.
>>2421677No the solution is being open to building bridges instead of burning them down for the sake of ideological purity.
You won't agree with someone on the ideological value of Pride but you can still agree to give gay people basic human rights or agree to give all people decent housing and healthcare gay or not.
The infighting is just generally not productive and gets annoying. Even if I agree with them I find it really offputting going into a Leftist space and seeing them immediately dogpile on anyone that doesn't 100% share their perfect crafted ideology. It comes off as childish.
>>2421673>it's funny how you completely miss the point cpussy anon was making and in a way just prove it to be true.I didn't. there's nothing "leftist" to say: "OMG, I support madam hillary clinton because she's woman, and because she says that gays in Haiti needs to be freed from their government". I am narrowing down things that should be already an absolute unmovable principles.
>but trying to actually engage with leftists under those terms just turns into constant dumb purity tests over what constitutes imperialism or whether Chinaactually, is quite simply, focus on your own country, and leaves other alone. when you have your own, maybe, and just MAYBE, when there's consensus that there's no imperialism, start to think on other people's matters.
>And the best part is, none of this is remotely consistent either.it is. under their own principles the Chinese decide how to treat them
and you should not care at all it's not your fucking country, it's not your fucking problem. stick to yours.
>If you go to a DSA meeting and tell them Pride is Liberal ideological rot you'll get kicked out and probably physically assaulted. well, the DSCIA isn't exactly too leftist after they allowed USAID/NED funded talking points in their forums. their destiny, as I said, belong into the forsaken pages of history of irrelevant movements.
Ask to the British Maoist party where are they, and what are they doing.
>>2421652Fucking
John Stossel! That's a name I haven't seen in a long time. This guy was always pushing anti-labor-union propaganda on the ABC show he used to host called 20/20. He's basically a turbo-libertarian bourgeois bootlicker.
>>2421673>Solidarity<Which they'll narrowly define as openly and loudly talking about how much you hate first world workers and the imperial core>Non-sectarianism<"Except for those groups I don't like">Anti-Imperialism<Defined as wanting to drop the bombs on your own country as penance.Kind of proves my point, I agree.
>>2421678I've never seen "capitalism is global" as a jumping off point for solidarity. It has only ever been used, as far as I've seen it, to explain that instead of focusing on the homelessness crisis here we need to feel bad about stuff happening overseas that's even
less in our ability to control.
Seriously everytime I make a point you'll get some guy repeating the same old tired mantras like a zen koan and acting like it explains literally anything at all:
>"Capitalism is Global">"Marxism is International"And then when you ask someone to actually elaborate they just huff that they don't need to explain.
>You keep presenting the same false dichotomy over and over, between organizing around GOOD ALL AMERICAN VALUES or just not organizing anything at allI believe in organizing around American issues, something that fills people with so much rage because I have the audacity to say "we should take care of the homeless problem here" without mentioning, I don't fucking know, the homeless problem in Kazakhstan? Pre-empting it with "Well first we need to solve imperialism though!"
And then, when I have the fucking audacity to say "we should try to solve problems affecting people right in front of us" I seem to anger people even more by saying "Sorry guys, but the RevCom flag burning ceremony doesn't win anyone over, hell if anything it scares people off."
Like no one can actually explain what benefit there is
at all in presenting Felix and his rhetoric to people. None. Zero. Zilch. But they're absolutely insistent that whereas Felix can call everyone irredeemable fascists and that's okay, we can't ever say "I dunno, I like celebrating Thanksgiving" because that'll alienate the precious Felixes from us.
This is a group of people that appeal to, I dunno, probably less than 5% of the country, infuriates maybe half of the country, but has an iron-grip on insisting that theirs is the only form of politics that can be allowed, any anyone deviating from it has to be cast out.
>>2421698I literally had some people from the group in question send me screenshots of the guy they expelled and some line like "We just thought you should know these racists are going around trying to join orgs and you should be aware of who they are." The pics in question were incredibly tame.
>>2421704Apparently that's not enough because you've got to do the radleft equivalent of land acknowledgements by demanding everyone talk about imperialism.
>>2421710>and then only marx righthe should be the starting point. because his main critics was on the stuff that mattered most, yes.
and you take some points of stuff that worked
in actual working socialist states that have existed in the past or exist today. yes.
run away from people obsessed in trashing everyone else, but not committed fundamentally to bring socialism.
you can't do the two things.
>>2421709we learn from that.
>>2421711>the stakes are so lowThe stakes, globally speaking, are higher than they've ever been in the history of mankind.
Unfortunately the American Left is so insulated from the consequences of their failures that they can keep failing over and over but every failure results in another 10k dead Gazan children. Anyone with a shred of empathy for their fellow humans would be arming themselves right now if they were aware of what's going on in the world. We've just had our empathy robbed from us since birth through cultural lobotomy.
>>24211931+1?
GROUP 1
>2>2>its 2, duhGROUP 2
>THE ALIENS HAVE CONVINCED US THAT ITS 2 BUT IN REALITY THE TRUE ANSWER IS A NUMBER THAT EXISTS IN THE FIFTH DIMENSION AND IS LOCKED BEHIND A LAYER OF LIES CREATED BY CONSTANT APPLICATION OF VACCINES AND THE CHEMTRAILS>bigfoot>HEH! you thought I'd say 2 but I'll say its 3 instead!!!! libs = owned ;)Group 2 is so diverse, waow
>>2421714Ehhh agree to disagree, assuming you're not just taking the piss.
>>2421717I mean I'd say that's what happens when you have a left completely detached from the actual rest of the country. What happens when a union drive fails? People lose jobs, they sometimes lose their healthcare, their lives materially get worse, and you've got to look those people in the eye and acknowledge you failed.
It's no fucking wonder that an obsessive "anti-imperialism" that devolved into despising their own country because it gives the perfect fucking level of activism to feel like you're "doing something" while being wholly insulated from the consequences. That "stop the war" campaign fails? Well you just somberly turn off the fucking television I guess. You're entirely insulated from the consequences of it. You don't have to worry about losing your job or reputation, hell you may get a friendly pat on the back for "standing up to X" or whatever, but at the end of the day you get to go home.
Organizing to stop a rent increase though? You might not have a home to go to, or even if it's pure altruism and it's not your rent being raised, failure means looking at that homeless guy on the street every fucking day you go to work and realizing you failed him, it was
your fuck up.
I have no idea what you'd call this, not adventurism, but it certainly seems like you're playing an RPG. You hear the world is in danger and the stakes have never been higher, but you can do some side quests to kill 3 boars for a Farmer whenever you fucking want.
We're cooked.
>>2421673>In fact American Leftism is so out of whack with the rest of the world's Leftist movements that we have no allies basically.>>2421686>You won't agree with someone on the ideological value of Pride but you can still agree to give gay people basic human rights or agree to give all people decent housing and healthcare gay or not … ven if I agree with them I find it really offputting going into a Leftist space and seeing them immediately dogpile on anyone that doesn't 100% share their perfect crafted ideology. It comes off as childish.I think dogpiling people who have different opinions is childish. It's a bit like high school.
But I have a weird relationship to these conversations, because I've never really thought of LGBT stuff for example (since it was brought up) as the same thing as "socialism" or "the left" in the first place. There may be some relationship to it in the sense that the left is secularist and combats the influence of right-wing religious fundamentalism. But the notion that the question is to "give" gay people their rights or not is totally backwards, and comes across as paternalistic. It's not something that I feel is up to anyone to "give" like they're kings and have these things to selectively dole out to people. Think about it, are you going to get together with a group of communists and take a vote on whether to "give" certain people their rights? And then you're wondering what leftists in other countries think? Man, I don't care what other people
in this country think about it, let alone in other countries.
I don't think I'm saying this "as a leftist" or whatever. Fundamentally, this Pride stuff is not about asking anyone's permission. You know how people say "I don't care" like when they're mad and don't want to come across as being upset? It is not like that. On the contrary, it's that you really do. not. care. It's only when you STOP caring what other people think that you can free yourself from the mental prisons that other people try to construct for you. People don't agree "with the ideological value of Pride." Yeah. Well. So what? WHO CARES. Think about it if you're gay. Of course I want to be liked. But you'll never get there by
begging to be liked and
begging for the world's approval. It's actually only when you have enough pride in being
who you are that others will begin to like and respect you. And if others nevertheless persist in disliking you? Well, take some common sense advice and say "fuck them" and move on.
There are interesting reasons why that happened, but it ultimately wasn't up to anybody else. But you get these communist groups that will tear each other's throats out because gay men dress up like the Village People, and other leftists will be mad at them, or they won't get the approval from some leftists somewhere else in the world. It's insane. But it's like, guys, none of you did anything! It was never up to you! And the gay guys who dress up like that don't care. They're going to keep doing it regardless of what anyone thinks about them.
>>2421732I've long felt that most of these type wouldn't even be communists if they lived in China or Russia. They'd probably by pro-NATO/pro-Quad liberals instead. They simply support communism because it is the opposite of the establishment.
>>2421736As somebody that had an English teacher that used to work as a scientist, I find it utterly cringe when they claim their views are "scientific". They're as "scientific" as Dr. Dino.
Lovecraft regretted being a chud near the end of his life.
>I can better understand the inert blindness & defiant ignorance of the reactionaries from having been one of them. I know how smugly ignorant I was.
>God! the things that were left out—the inside facts of history, the rational interpretation of periodic social crises, the foundations of economics & sociology, the actual state of the world today! All this comes up with humiliating force through an incident of a few days ago—when Conover, having established contact with Henneberger, obtained from the latter a long epistle which I wrote Ed Baird on Feb. 3, 1924, in response to a request for biographical & personal data.
>Willis asked permission to publish the text & I began looking the thing over to see what it was like—for I had not the least recollection of it. Well, I managed to get through, after about 10 closely typed pages of egotistical reminiscences & showing-off & expressions of opinion about mankind & the universe. I did not faint, but I looked around for a 1924 photo of myself to burn, spit on, or stick pins in!
>Holy Hades—was I that much of a dub at 33 … only 13 years ago? There was no getting out of it—I really had thrown all that haughty, complacent, snobbish, self-centred, intolerant bull, & at a mature age when anybody but a perfect damned fool would've known better! That earlier illness had kept me in seclusion, limited my knowledge of the world, & given me something of the fatuous effusiveness of a belated adolescent when I finally was able to get around more in 1920, is hardly much of an excuse.
>There was nothing to be done, except to rush a note back to Conover & tell him I’d dismember him & run the fragments through a sausage-grinder if he ever thought of printing such a thing! The only consolation lay in the reflection that I had matured a bit since '24. It’s hard to have done all one’s growing up since 33—but that’s a damn sight better than not growing up at all
>>2421745kek…
I think as of this place as a training ground, just that.
>>2421787>>2421790Nah, that rarely happens. It's like everyone dropping out for biden against bernard, supporting senile biden.
Once daddy turd-shoveler, who pushes cuomo's and adams' poop from the outside to the inside, make the calls, one of them two will drop favoring the other.
they are not sectarian in that regard.
who's this papi-push-poop that makes cuomo and adams to become pencil sharpeners? well, the billionaires and people afraid of the word "socialism", and zionists. but let's see.
not having so much faith in Zohran, in any case, though.
>>2421743>I've long felt that most of these type wouldn't even be communists if they lived in China or Russia. They'd probably by pro-NATO/pro-Quad liberals instead. They simply support communism because it is the opposite of the establishment. Y'know one kind of "aha" moment for me was reading all these interviews with gusano types; y'know, some of the organizers of the protests in Tiananmen Square, neoliberal types in Venezuela and China, Gusanos, etc.
What stood out was how much they sounded like a very specific type of western communist, with the arguments inverted. There was this one Chinese guy who insisted China today should be balkanized and that "we'd have been better off if the British conquered the entire mainland and ruled us for over a hundred years". There was this Russian dude who regarded Russian culture itself as backwards and retarded. And they all had eager ideas for how to "punish" their people for not-complying: sanctions, invasion, forced re-education with liberal values.
I kind of recognized then and there that there must be a certain type of humanity, I guess you could call them "Renfields" or what have you, that have a bizarre psychological profile that ostracizes them from their kin and turns them into mewling sycophants towards the idea of some other "great power" punishing them.
>>2421823politics and sexual kinks aren't that far away from each other i find.
i'm prostrating myself before the AI overlord tbh
>>2421815>There was this Russian dude who regarded Russian culture itself as backwards and retarded … I kind of recognized then and there that there must be a certain type of humanity, I guess you could call them "Renfields" or what have you, that have a bizarre psychological profile that ostracizes them from their kin and turns them into mewling sycophants towards the idea of some other "great power" punishing them.People have a habit of turning into their opposites while they're still the same person. I don't know if Xi Van Fleet personally struggled her teacher to death when she was a kid, and she hasn't claimed to have engaged in any violence, but her self-proclaimed origin story is that she was a teenage Maoist girl and witnessed that stuff go down. If true, it stands to reason she participated in it at some level (even if just chanting "down with so-and-so" in a big crowd). Now she's the most fanatical anti-communist and uber-patriot in America who's made it her mission to hunt down any communists in America and purge them from the society. Isn't that interesting?
I've been fascinated recently by Alexander Nevzorov. He was a journalist and host of a T.V. show in the (very) late Soviet Union as it was breaking up. And he got into this neo-imperial revanchist stuff and supported the coup in 1991 that was attempting to preserve the Soviet Union, and then supported the parliament in 1993 against Yeltin who sent in the tanks.
He was never a communist… nor a Tsarist… exactly… but he had a "national-patriotic" ideology or whatever that brushed up with the "hardliners" or whatever. He loved the army and the police and would tag along with OMON forces in Latvia who were trying to hold out, and openly glorified those people in his films (this still makes him persona non grata in Baltics). He was big into traditional Russian values, aesthetics, etc. Then he spent the 1990s making crazy war documentaries in Nagorno-Karabakh and Chechnya. I have to say his films from this time did have a high level of creativity and aesthetic quality.
But later on, he turned to his opposite and became a hater of all things Russian. I mean a really intense hater. All that beautiful Russian literature? Nah, for him it's all sicko stuff now and contains the genus of incipient Russian fascism that has turned everybody into orcs (he uses this word) who have porridge for brains. He opposed the war in Ukraine and left the country, and became a supporter of Ukraine. But I think what has been consistent is him treating everything as part of an indivisible whole. That can also be treating art as also inseperable from personality and ideology.
>>2421815You're talking about the people here who are just like "fuck America, drop the nukes Xi." And you see a parallel between them and the gusanos in other countries. But here's another question: what are those people going to turn
into? Or what
were they at some point? They were this, and then they became that… and perhaps in the future they will become… well I'm not sure, but I do know that everything is in some state of change, including people. Maybe they become extreme nationalists for some other country, because for whatever reason, they have that kind of personality but something is prohibiting them from identifying with their own country and spending all their time denigrating everybody else. It's the same mentality though.
>>2421949true true. I just think about how less than 10% of Americans ever become veterans, very few of those serve in combat roles, and only 1% are active duty right now. Cops who oppress the domestic population are way more common than coup plotting CIA agents and baby killing troops.
Yeah a lot of us are still reactionary in spite of that but I think the USA will rapidly fall behind in the coming century to the point where it will eventually look as backwards compared to the rest of the "developed" world as Tsarist Russia did in 1917.
News of the weird: the Air Force is buying Cybertrucks to blow up. Well, what else are they good for?
>The U.S. Air Force is looking to buy two Tesla Cybertrucks for use as targets for precision munitions during testing and training. The service says it needs these vehicles for this purpose specifically because of the prospect of unspecified adversaries driving around in them in the future.…
>“On 13 February 2025, market research was conducted to assess the competition for the Tesla Cybertruck by evaluating its design, materials, impact resistance, and innovative technologies. The study revealed that the Cybertruck’s aggressively angular and futuristic design, paired with its unpainted stainless steel exoskeleton, sets it apart from competitors typically using painted steel or aluminum bodies,” the justification document explains. “Additionally, its 48V electrical architecture provides superior power and efficiency, a feature that rivals are only beginning to develop. Extensive internet searches and industry outreach by [redacted] found no vehicles with features comparable to those of the Cybertruck.”
>More importantly, “[redacted] intends to uses [sic] specific Tesla manufactured vehicles for target vehicle training flight test events. In the operating theatre it is likely the type of vehicles used by the enemy may transition to Tesla Cyber trucks [sic] as they have been found not to receive the normal extent of damage expected upon major impact,” it adds. “Testing needs to mirror real world situations. The intent of the training is to prep the units for operations by simulating scenarios as closely as possible to the real world situations.”https://www.twz.com/land/air-force-wants-tesla-cybertrucks-to-launch-missiles-at>>2421830>But later on, he turned to his opposite and became a hater of all things Russian. I mean a really intense hater. All that beautiful Russian literature? Nah, for him it's all sicko stuff now and contains the genus of incipient Russian fascism that has turned everybody into orcs (he uses this word) who have porridge for brains. He opposed the war in Ukraine and left the country, and became a supporter of Ukraine. But I think what has been consistent is him treating everything as part of an indivisible whole. That can also be treating art as also inseperable from personality and ideology.Think its a fetish of extremes as it were; like you begin to project so much onto the "great other" that in some ways it becomes more inseparable to you than your supposed "ideology", which more or less functions as window dressing for personal hangups. Y'know you've got the homophobic preacher that sucks cock, the klansman with a black mistress, the misogynist with a mommy-dom fetish, and on and on it goes.
>>2421858>You're talking about the people here who are just like "fuck America, drop the nukes Xi." And you see a parallel between them and the gusanos in other countries. But here's another question: what are those people going to turn into? Or what were they at some point?ᴉuᴉlossnW in 1912:
>“For us the national flag is a rag to be planted on a dunghill. There are only two fatherlands in the world: that of the exploited and that of the exploiters."ᴉuᴉlossnW in 1925:
>"The Fatherland is no illusion! It is the sweetest, greatest, most human, most divine of realities! No, Italy did not exhaust itself in creating its first and second civilization, but is already creating a third!" One of the RAF guys ended up becoming a Neo-Nazi Nationalist, yeah? This is despite the fact that one of the chief arguments that the RAF put forward when they were captured, I believe, was that West Germany was functionally a continuation of the Nazi regime. Then you had the Black Panther who became a Reaganite, too. And there were plenty of western Communists who went to the USSR and their response was: "Wow, this place is boring, it doesn't have nearly as much stuff as America. This place sucks."
All in all I think some of it is rooted in a disappointment in reality and the projection of a "super-reality" elsewhere. You'll notice that for all the just pure rage at injustice occurring in the third world, you don't really see specifics or details. Because I sincerely doubt it's about the actual people living through that; hell I don't recall seeing the types of folks who make documentaries about Palestine or visit Palestinians go full "unlimited genocide on the first world" despite witnessing the horrors firsthand.
Think about that White Nationalist dude who got dunked on for moving to the midwest to "be among his volk" only to discover that it was a bunch of boring white people obsessed with football over race realism. There's a literal psychological condition of Japanese people going to Paris then suffering some kind of psychotic break when they realize it's a shithole and not some Disney paradise. They're never chasing anything really in front of them, anything they can hold and touch, and so when fantasy is unveiled as some sobering reality, it can break them.
>>2422360I think it’s manual.
There is probably more than one person raiding
>>2422389>On the subject of american nazis I'm glad to see they put the cofounder of atomwaffen away for 20 years.Watch as Trump pardons him and gives millions of dollars in compensation for "woke persecution".
>>2422464>That's pretty pathetic. All they can come up with is pepe butthole.Better than the usual gore or soyjaks.
>>2422712>The pandemic truly was the death stroke against the United States.It's only the beginning too. RFK Jr is going to fight hard to dismantle the public health system because of horrific human rights violations like having to wear a cloth mask to Applebee's or Wal-Mart. Also, he doesn't believe in the germ theory, either.
>>2423024Sorry, you haven't received the appropriate number of votes to ask permission from The International Socialist's Subcommittee for Internet Commentary Affairs to post this. Once you have received permission to ask to post you can plead your case in person at the Brussels headquarters of the Global Subcommittee of the Subcommittee of Leftypol Posting Commission and only if they agree with the contents can you submit this comment. Average processing time is 1 year and 3 months. Thank you for you patience!
>>2423030>It's only the beginningThey looked at the numbers and saw too much of the budget is in medical spending and not enough in military spending. The poors will just need to pray to Jesus harder and stop purposefully getting sick from now on.
>>2423032>assaulted for wearing an Israeli flagSomehow I doubt that's what actually happened.
Of course in the totalitarian hellhole that is the USA reality is whatever the bourgeoisie want it to be.
God I just can't stand how actual Nazism is making a comeback and all people think is that opposing genocide is the
REAL antisemitism!
>>2423041>They looked at the numbers and saw too much of the budget is in medical spending and not enough in military spending.Part of the issue, seems to me, has nothing to do with workers as consumers of healthcare. And more to do with healthcare as a useless fucking drain on the budget because the lobbying is out of control. So much money for so little healthcare, has been the norm and it has to stop mooching money that could be better spent on the cold war or bribing the other sectors of the bourgeoisie that need bribing.
Obviously the worker is the one shafted,always. But I see this and the drug prices ("most favoured nation" prices) more like Obamacare making the bare minimum of health insurance legally enforceable. It's a doorstop measure to save an industry from it's addiction to regulatory capture and keep the interests of the wider bourgeoisie funded.
Sure the workers are going to be paying the bill, but that's always.
Flood detected post pisscarded
Also holy shit I hate all these Democrats who, whenever Trump doing something horrible comes up, lament how this is what America voted for or wish ill upon people because they think it will make them vote Democrat or just flatly refuse to acknowledge the party leadership has made massive unforced errors for the sake of appeasing the haute bourgeoisie.
I can't fucking stand it, I wish they'd just shut the fuck up already!
>>2423044I mean you have the richest man on Earth, with unprecedented access to all the workings of the America state, create an AI that calls itself MechaHitler, the same AI he's been feeding government data to determine how to increase "efficiency!"
But no clearly the problem is random college students.
>>2423026>the thought ofSorry chud, first-worldism is about actions, not sentiments. Just because you
claim to
want to do something doesn't make you one of us!
>>2423013I'm on trazodone for sleep, shit is pretty tight. I was on Seroquel 50mg before but the side effects were pretty heavy. Knocked me the FUCK out though like another ever did or has since. Seriously if you cannot sleep at all I'd recommend asking for a script. I'm bipolar and that shit put me to sleep while I was manic.
Trazadone isnt as reliable but it's a hell of a lot gentler.
>>2421736Yeah real political revolutions and mass movements are built out of daily and sustained actions by large groups of people that are specific (not vague), measurable (not amorphous), achievable (not fantastical), relevant (not irrelevant), time-scheduled (not unscheduled), engaging (not dull), adaptable (not inflexible), contextualized (not isolated) and of course social (not individualistic). Theory is supposed to guide and inform what actions you take, not prevent you from taking any actions at all. But a unique combination of demoralization, atomization, analysis-paralysis, and purity spiraling keeps many people inactive.
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