What's their fucking problem? Their membership ranges from genuine MLs all the way to reactionary rejects. Do they think the way to build communism is to adopt all the worst and most aggravating positions held by the now defunct black hammer?
371 posts and 74 image replies omitted.>>2461161>so what wouldnt count as subsistence?I don't really like the term subsistence , i think reproduction of labour power is better. I might be wrong, but id say in a capitalist economy, anything below what your labour power makes in terms of value put into commodities is reproduction of labour power. Obviously, in non capitalist economies, there would be a surplus as well, in a communist society something would go to communal projects like infrastructure, to benefit everyone. But you'd have a say in these democratically, the surplus wouldn't just go to capitalists.
>are you implying that labour-power has no determined value?Not exactly. Its value is determined by the value of the commodities which go into its own reproduction! So your rent , eats, Netflix sub, etc. Its the amount of these which depend on how much you can claw back from the capitalist through pressure of action etc
>do all workers produce commodities?No. Some dont but they are still necessary for the capitalist system to keep running. For example office staff in a factory.
>>2461222>o dont like the term subsistenceof course not, because youd be forced to disagree with marx
>the value of labour-power is a democratic decisionmarx disagrees
>>2461236>>2461236>of course not, because youd be forced to disagree with marxbecause sometimes its below subsistence. people who are in jobs but who are homeless
>the value of labour-power is a democratic decisionmarx disagrees
Under capitalism no
Under communism yes
Goodnight im out
>>2461081 Surplus-value is neither produced nor realized in this non-capitalist, simple commodity exchange between two citizens. Rent itself is a deduction from aggregate surplus value; therefore, your liberal dogma is an attempt to hurt the Communist Party and aid capitalist production of surplus-value.
>>2461077Engels explains that renting a room is only "exploitation," in the liberal sense, if charged beyond market value, the same as the sale of any commodity. Rent below market value: the tenant is a bourgeois exploiter. The conversion of rent into Communist Party resources is socialist accumulation. The Communist Party is strengthened, and no one is exploited.
>>2461229Incorrect. Charging rent for a room or a house is not primitive but a simple everyday exchange in Communist society. In typical liberal dogmatic fashion, you defy scientific socialism and equate actual landlordism (control of landed means of production) with your mom "exploiting" rent from you.
>>2461219Ironically enough, you are correct. You libs are getting worse. You liberals spit in the face of not only the Communist Party but also Engels, scientific socialism, and Communism as a whole.
>>2461232They are not landlords. They are citizens engaging in everyday simple equivalent commodity exchange. A prole who rents a book is not a booklord.
>>2461279>They are not landlords. They are citizens engaging in everyday simple equivalent commodity exchange. A prole who rents a book is not a booklord.I do not appreciate "argumentation" by semantics. If you refuse to address the substance of the argument and instead attack the phrasing used to present it, you're a coward.
But file, let's have it your way. How would people who make a living off of renting out private property that they own benefit from a revolution that would result in the abolition of said private property ownership?
>>2461290 meant for
>>2461254>>2461299You're still hopped up on the autistic particulars of economics, and missing what is right in fucking front of you: why would professional property owners create a system where their source of income no longer exists?
>>2461307>You're still hopped up on the autistic particulars of economics, and missing what is right in fucking front of youwelcome to leftoidpol, where we pretend the most revolutionary class of propertyless reserveless immiserated wage workers includes neets, homeowners, managers, etc.
you have nothing to lose but your mortgage, 401k, etc etc
>>2461038Landlords are a form of capitalist but it is more similar to owning a small business than anything else. Homeowners are also capitalists in so far as they speculate on the value of the asset they sit on.
However, the contradiction is not between tenant and landlord. The contradiction is between worker and landowner.
>>2461638Your ability to read English is about as bad as your ability to write it.
MAGAcommunism was predicated on the idea that the MAGA movement could be peeled away from Trump and harnessed by leftists to create a mass movement. As it turns out, most MAGA people like Trump, to the point where a significant chunk of them have openly admitted that they would still like him if it turned out he was a literal pedophile. And of the people who were anti-establishment and felt betrayed by him, most of them cut further right and got into guys like Nick Fuentes.
>>2461650It was very obvious too the intended grift was for Trump to lose the election, and then peel away his dissatisfied voters to join the ACPs "MAGAcommunism".
How this was going to work when "MAGA" considered Biden to be a communist hardliner in cahoots with the 'CCP', was never truly explained.
You can also see this in how Haz talked about the dems as their main enemy. But then Trump won anyway, and now neither side wants to have anything to do with the ACP and freaks like Haz. Neither online or offline.
Haz could have done some soul searching in the aftermath, but that implies he's capable of the sort of self-reflection necessary for critiquing his own conduct. Instead he's posing with guns looking like a dork, and leaning more heavily into the mentally unstable freak persona by bringing up how they're gonna conquer America like the Mongol hordes or something, and how America is Asiatic and autocratic, and Marxism is Islamic. You know very normal stuff that's very appealing to both libs, conservatives and ordinary workers.
I know we have ACP lurkers here (>>2461638) sticking out like a sore thumb,, but (you) guys should know you act and appear more like degenerate freaks than fat pink haired screaming college liberals at this point.
If you had any sense left, you'd ditch your gross cringe petite bourgeois failson "chairman" in favor of someone more respectable. I think even Hinkle would be an improvement, and considering he's a homophobic glowie, that's saying something.
>>2459233>Has he ever had a job in his life?He hasn't lol. He lives off daddy's (owner of a construction firm) dime and donations. The ACP's a farce (and a personality cult), and Haz is a joke.
He's not the first to run a grift like this, and sadly he won't be the last.
>>2461808>how they're gonna conquer America like the Mongol hordes or something, and how America is Asiatic and autocratic, and Marxism is Islamic. You know very normal stuff that's very appealing to both libs, conservatives and ordinary workers.With added Heidegger for good measure.
Which Haz even gets wrong.Vid related.
>>2459913>How does one escape this trap? Seems like getting all outraged about them just fuels the flames no?Not them, but on this imageboard by not getting wound up by inflammatory comments by Haz/ACP. but by promoting people who are doing good work, whether thats theoretical or practical.
>>2462010In a political sense he lines up decently with mainstream conservative liberalism.
Eternally stuck in a highschool mindset is on brand for him tho.
>>2462048>Non-racialThese people are obsessed with racialisimg themselves, it's a part of the LARP.
Tell me, what name is it that Adam refers to himself o line, again?
>>2462048>non-racialhaz has professed a belief in an "american race"
>Actual communismsmall businesses and landlords?
>Support for AES countriessuch as?
>Being attacked by legit nazis and groypersnot for being left-wing, but for haz not being right-wing enough
>>2461990>ACP are doing good workWhat good work? What are they doing that other parties are not already doing at a larger scale?
>I think the hate of the ACP and Haz from this board stems from them rejecting the framing of modern leftism.I hate them because they're idpol obsessed spergs. Swaping out radlib grievance politics for conservitard grievance politics doesn't address the underlying issue, which is that they care more about LGBT people than the class struggle.
>>2462048>Actual communismThe actual communism of the petite bourgeois smol business owners and landlords?
>>2461808>It was very obvious too the intended grift was for Trump to lose the election, and then peel away his dissatisfied voters to join the ACPs "MAGAcommunism". There needs to be a term for this, because it's not "fell for it again," but it's like some pseud thing that's very common among self-styled dissidents who get enthralled by ideology. Richard Spencer was like this. They will shill and vote for a politician while thinking they're playing 5D chess or going to "use" him somehow. It's some hyper-intellectualized thing that appears clever, and shh'yeah…. when Trump fails, his supporters will become Nazis and make Richard the Führer because he's so smart and clever and read Heidegger and a NEW EMPIRE WILL ARISE. Then his 19-year-old alt-right fan was like waow based. They might also delude themselves into believing the average MAGA guy has the same relationship to that as an ideology as they do to their meme ideologies, so they can substitute for it.
They think they're so fucking clever. In reality, it's DEEPLY IDIOTIC to do this play-pretend Leninism in relationship to American electoral politics. These institutions are designed from the get-go to fuck you over if you attempt to do this. They really underestimate the system and how deeply conservative it really is. It doesn't reward this. It punishes it. It's probably going to reward Gavin Newsom who is cynical enough to understand that what Democrats will want in 2028 is just winning and not caring about anything else until later. Then you look around at the MAGA coalition, there are people who are like "I thought Trump was gonna release the Epstein files" and huhhh whut (?) and then arrest Zelensky because he sucked Hunter Biden's cock or something. Man, I dunno, but it doesn't matter. What most of them care about is winning and Trump won. There's a guy who lives down the street from me who flies a Trump flag and he's still flying it.
>>2461990>It's kinda how the nice guy can't get the girl after doing everything society tells him to and the bad boy easily gets the girl by being unique and contrarianBut they don't get any chicks. I've seen the pics of their clubs. There's, like, no chicks. Maybe one who's also kind of spergy, becuase they're a gaggle of spergy-looking manlets and lanklets who look like Hearts of Iron gamers who don't know how to dress themselves. Then there's some 70-year-old Chinese guy who's also there for some reason. You know who on the left gets chicks? Hasan. He just blows everyone else out of the water. They come up to him. I guess this means Turks are racially superior chads. Or that he respects women and treats them well and doesn't try to undermine them.
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