LEFTYBRITPOL GENERAL
<"Have some respect just ONE day, don't laff! Don't laff! Don't laff!" Edition
O i am laffin.
Remember to keep a stiff upper lip, mind the gap and carry on chap.
>>2514477glad that in the UK we can only choose which semites to lead us. zionist jews or jihadi muslims.
>>2514476british right wingers dont trust the tories anymore, they say these things but then just allow "boris wave" to happen
the filth of the homeless in my city is overflowing
soon everywhere will be like london 😢
>>2514476If Labour were remotely good at being Blairites they could point out that the Tories and Reform are irredeemably yank-brained and that Britain isn't fucking America. Just hammer them repeatedly on being American weirdoes. You can even hypocritically fly the British flag (flag-shagging being a yank obsession) while doing it! (hypocrisy is really more British than American, anyway. yanks love to just be openly stupid.)
>>2514906Britain is America, you’re in denial if you think the anglo empire is different anywhere
The english language itself is reactionary and imperialist, socialism will abolish it
brits make the flag into a culture war issue, while americans try to prove they are more patriotic than each other by waving flags harder
>>2514977>>2514981>>2514990most of these examples are from the 60s, 70s and 80s
largely before thatcher, when there was still a britain.
>>2514956>as he speaks english >>2514951Obviously, but like Canada you can play up the little things like "not being megachurch-attending bible-bashing nutters", "more than 50% of the population capable of finding Africa on a map", "doesn't have
so many school shootings that they've managed to become passe and avant garde nutters have moved on to politically-adjacent assassinations"
>>2514977>>2514981>>2514990I'm not the best at explaining the nuances of it, but this is a distinct thing. More like a sort of 60s/70s nostalgia and kistch than a love of the flag itself. There are kitschy union flag cushions or whatever too, but as a general you don't fly the flag outside your house unless you're an Ulster unionist. You don't really have any panic about flag burning unless it's in Northern Ireland, which (shh) isn't really part of Britain anyway. Meanwhile, in the US, it's not that weird to have a flag flying outside (But, I guess, it would be odd to have it as cushions?)
Like look at all your examples: They're overwhelmingly musical and overwhelmingly dated. Even the mini is an iconic car of the
1960s. The flag is spammed aggressively in that context, but use is comparatively mild elsewhere.
>>2515164>Even the mini is an iconic car of the 1960s. The photo is of Twiggy in the 60s. Ok maybe you don't do it anymore.
>Like look at all your examples: They're overwhelmingly musical and overwhelmingly dated. Well those are what I'm familiar with, I don't listen to too much new bong music. So you're saying it's an outdated practice?
>Meanwhile, in the US, it's not that weird to have a flag flying outside (But, I guess, it would be odd to have it as cushions?)They flag code specifically says the flag is not supposed to be put on anything besides military uniforms or as a flag itself. It's against the code to use it in any promotional material or as a design element or whatever. That's how the attitude of the country was back in the first half of the 1900s, it was very much anti kitschy flag spam, like how you would imagine a religious person might be against using their iconography willy nilly as design elements or decorations, it's about reverence. But that is an outdated kind of way of thinking in America these days.
There’s literally no reason for the UK to be an independent country, every English speaking country should send representatives to a pan Anglo parliament
>>2515164I had a think on it and I would say that America (and perhaps France) use the flag as a general symbol of the state in a way that Britain doesn't, or didn't used to anyway. Britain is theoretically constituted around the monarch, so monarchical symbolism dominates.
For example, it's not that noteworthy if a US post office flies the flag, but it would be weird for a British post office to do so. On the other hand, every post box has the royal cipher on it.
Until recently, government guidance was that flags were only flown from public buildings for royal stuff (weddings, birthdays, coronation day, etc - the bulk of it), national days (St. David, St. Patrick's, St. George's, St. Andrew's), remembrance Sunday, and the opening/closing of parliament. Then in 2021 they put out guidance that government buildings should fly the flag year round unless they're already flying another civic flag.
(as a sort of concession to the fact that most local authorities, etc, that flew flags, would prioritize their own historic flag over the union flag if they only have one flag pole)
>>2515181It's not exactly outdated (although i'd say it's less common than it used to be, Oasis tour excepted), but i'd say it's (consciously or not) retro in a way that (say) this coat lining definitely isn't. (plus, the context is usually pretty lighthearted, while the white house press secretary's suit lining is… just odd.) You see more people going for American style "respect the flag" / flag as the key national symbol nowadays, though. (Which I'd regard as a US import.)
The flag code is interesting to contrast: America's is very serious and reverential (and at odds with the American love of kitschy flag spam) while Britain just doesn't have one. (There's an unofficial flag institute charity and some traditions, but no legislation.) It's one of those things that shows the gap in how much people care about it: Americans want to use the flag a lot, and they want the flag to be respected. Their national anthem is about the flag and they pledge allegiance to it. In Britain, it's traditionally a bit more carefree. I mean, it's just a bit of cloth, right? (But don't say nasty things about 'are Maj.)
>>2515184https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Federation all you need is a time machine.
>>2515184There’s literally no reason for there to be an independent country, every country should send representatives to a global parliament
Farage has given a speech in the US today, claiming that the British education system poisons the minds of our youth and is controlled by the Marxist left.
Highly Fascistic and Hitlerian language.
>>2515227Nah, if you have just a pan anglo parliament you’ve isolated most of the world’s most powerful reactionaries
A Socialist World Republic. An International Communist Union. Image it…
>>2515242Gross, imperialist even
>>2515253How does the international proletariat overthrowing their bourgeois capitalist leaders and forming an international union count as imperialism?
>>2515242A consummation devoutly to be wished
>>2515718Video of this is very awkward. Corbyn clearly doesn't want to do it
>>2514630Look at the comments lel
Karl Davies, 57, a worker at Wrexham’s Oscar Mayer ready meal manufacturing site, was fired on the grounds of racial harassment after incessantly repeating the phrase "top o' the morning to ye" in an Irish accent to his manager, Scott Millward, who is Irish, and had Irish-themed background music playing on the factory speakers.
Mr Millward had also been escorting a “red-headed” external auditor around the site while he was repeatedly interrupted by Davies making the remarks.
The case was taken to an employment tribunal, at which the Judge Vincent Ryan proclaimed Mr Davies was "effectively channelling the musical vibe" of the workplace, and thusly that it counted as unfair dismissal.
His former employer must now pay £16,000 to Mr Davies in compensation.
>>2516084What falls faster? A man, or his party?
>>2516111I can't fucking believe we're still talking about this shit, fucking Anastasia tier brain rot
>>2516129>workers need to own the means of production.in a de-industrialised nation?
me and the lads occupying the local tesco.
>>2516133Zohran is going to nationalise supermarkets in NYC if he wins, no reason Zarah can't call for the same here.
Still we're still miles away from anything good in this fucking island. The problem isn't so much who operates the firm as much as it is the firm itself.
>>2516243>>2516146why doesnt she just say "lets reindustrialise" and go from there? theres no one in british politics who talks about it, so i cant trust anyone in british politics.
>>2516245everyone talks about it, maybe not as loudly as you'd like but they do. britain has had something like 11 industrial strategies over the last 13 years. Farage has even used the word "Reindustrialize" when peddling his own specific fantasy nonsense.
the ugly truth of it, though, is that "reindustrialization" is a deeply misleading term. you could bring a huge chunk of manufacturing onshore and the UK would still be a service economy with a mere handful of people working manufacturing jobs, and most of those in banal things like sandwiches rather than fun things like cars. it simply does not take as many people to make things as it used to, and it usually makes good economic sense to trade rather than produce domestically. (Japan is the world's third biggest manufacturing economy, loves to buy domestic, and is… dying on its arse almost as badly as we are.)
the extent to which we believe we're a totally deindustrialized country rather than a merely-relatively deindustrialized one should give pause to the idea that all we need to set things right is a few more factories. 46% of UK exports are goods, across a pretty diverse range of products:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc1797/treemap/exports.html with the remainder services. now, there's a big trade deficit that would ideally be fixed by producing things the world wants to buy so that we can stop plugging it by selling off more assets - but there's no special reason to go for goods over services in doing that. (and, on the face of it, the UK is much better cut out for services - including cultural exports - than for manufacturing, where high costs and a total inability to plan anything always fuck things up.)
anyway, in the most wildly successful visions of a reindustrialized britain a substantial chunk of the proletariat will still work in the service sector, so the left should bite the bullet and prepare for the difficult task of organizing service workers instead of praying that one way or another someone winds the tape back and there are suddenly large industrial unions to care about.
If the majority of workers are service workers the class war is over and the bourgeois have won, simple as
>>2516316>everyone talks about itgive me some examples
>now, there's a big trade deficit that would ideally be fixed by producing things the world wantsthis is not really about the world. we should be making stuff for ourself.
>organizing service workerswhat are the means of production for service workers?
I'm really tired of that "nothing beats a Jet 2 holiday!" sound being overlaid on every vid.
>>2516903Free marketing innit
>>2517005>>2517021
>"Flag shagging" as a negative is only a recent thing by fucking retarded oikophobic anarkiddie inspired leftards who haven no problem flag shagging terrible Arab flags.So you're a Zio too?
>>2516129>"migrants built this country"you what!? 🤨
cant stand the americanisation of our politics 🙄😮💨
britain does not have an oikophobia problem, it has a symbolism problem, an age problem, an education problem. glibly, it has a brexit problem. i do not particularly care about the actual issue of EU membership, but in terms of what it culturally means to be british the leave win (and
especially every idiotic thing that happened between leave winning and actually leaving) had a devastating effect on the libs who held up the side of britishness that was relatable to smarter/younger people. these same people are - naturally - the most extremely online, the most skilled users of a technology that inherently weakens national ties and offers up alternative identities.
in simple, wrong, cliche terms: britishness has become working/underclass coded where once it was much more middle-class coded, with Brexit as the inflection point. as such, it is profoundly alienating to middle class people.
but this isn't really true. the split is across age and education, not social class. i explain in class terms only because it is much more intuitive to the unsympathetic reader. the average working class young person is a lefty.
when "britishness" means Nigel Farage, trying to burn down migrant hotels, "brexit means brexit" (an insultingly asinine slogan even if you hate the EU!), flags, and generally being either thick or evil, it's not oikophobic to think it's a load of bollocks. it's xenophobic.
>>2517140while it
is a yank cliche, you could handwave a little and point to postwar labour shortages being filled by immigrants.
(so a freebie for any of you if you become a Your Party speechwriter: Immigrants
rebuilt this country.)
>>2517159Indians still don't know how to use a toilet, they were not responsible for building the world's first industrialised nation.
>>2517163Eh? The USAno's got somewhere even though they're even worse and run into the supermarket fruit and veg section to take a shit when they're not shitting all over the sidewalk
>>2517172>america is worse than indialets not play this game.
>>2517174Designated shitting veggie aisle!
>>2517163You literally smashed their domestic textile industry, they were industrialized before colonization, colonization in this case was outright capital theft
>>2517249I'll go with the Greens over YP until YP party conference actually puts some good policy down. (and, just as crucially, doesn't put any excruciatingly bad policy down). That wasn't my stance early on, but they're not back in my good books yet just because they've realized it's good PR to have the most prominent figures smile when they're with one another in public.
She says, for example, that YP is an explicitly socialist party - and obviously that's who it appeals to, but if you're pedantic it's complete nonsense at this time: until conference is done, it will not be confirmed that it's a socialist party.
What the fuck is an "oinkophobe"? Is this a term Britbongs actually use or is this some insanity unique to here?
>>2517340it's the opposite of a xenophobe. greek for house (oikos) + fear (phobos) > fear of one's own house / "a tendency to criticise or reject one's own home or home society while praising others", as a phrase it seems mostly to be used by right-wing wronguns or guys who died 200 years ago.
when i first read it, i thought it was a fear of oiks.
>>2517340we have a weird rightist tourist who comes here to try out his gay new words.
Nubriton.
>>2517340It's reactionary slop
>>2517057Not a Zionist lmao. Just stating the obvious truth. The left LOVES flag shagging if it's some third world shithole that it's decided it's "anti-Imperialist" for the day. I mean for fuck sake the British left were going around waving Syrian and Venezuelan flags in the 2010s lmao. Most of the British ""left"" have no problem jerking off over the Ukrainian flag as well.
>>2517340It's where people ruthlessly criticize the ingroup while idolizing the outgroup. This is pretty much the core drive of the modern British Left who absolutely fucking hate British everything, hate the working class, deep throat basically every middle class cosmopolitian position there is while jerking off at how much superior they are to "brits".
You've seen it in these threads a million times, where people here outright claim the UK has no culture, has no "natives", has never contributed anything to global culture etc. The average Leftybritpol retard would put the average Scouse next to the average Bangladeshi and claim there is no cultural difference whatsoever.
The average British leftard is really just a culturally self-hating smug middle classist cosmopolitian liberal that would rather be living doing coke and banging arthoes in New York while pretending they are a third worldist.
>>2517635psychoanalytically i would say that what is repressed in one's own nationalism is projected into another. its not that the left are non-nationalistic, as you say, its just that their nationalism is misdirected into these libidinal idols. you see it with how liberals are literal nazis for ukraine, promoting western chauvinism, etc.
>>2517635your mistake is to think of "British everything" as the in-group for the British left.
as i said back here
>>2517156>when "britishness" means Nigel Farage, trying to burn down migrant hotels, "brexit means brexit" (an insultingly asinine slogan even if you hate the EU!), flags, and generally being either thick or evil, it's not oikophobic to think it's a load of bollocks. it's xenophobic.britain's real problem is that having completely fucked up being a nation state under thatcher, it progressively destroyed any notion of itself as a cosmopolitan liberal country. again - if britishness is being smugly superior to stupid fat bible-bashing americans because even a Tory government can pass gay marriage here, that's one thing. if britishness means being a poorer, worse version of america where complete nonentities like starmer pander to thickos who make the fat bible bashing americans look smart (at least they've got a book!), of course it's going to find itself worthy of contempt.
(incidentally, this is what distinguishes left-wing flag use: those flags mean something. Venezuela's flag represents socialism, Palestine anti-imperialism, etc. britain's flag represents what, exactly? musical kitsch, a dead empire, and 4 nations held together by historical inertia. hell, even the right-wing nationalists are hanging
english flags now!)
>>2517646you're missing the more obvious case: that all human beings are group animals and that the left, rather than sublimating local nationalism into foreign nationalism, just doesn't go for nationalism and get their fix of group-based smugness and sociopathy elsewhere. (such as, you know, by being TRUE communists on leftypol.org ) which occasionally manifests itself into nationalism-adjacent behavior like flying foreign flags. (i would say, however, that in most cases the flag represents an
idea more than a country, and that where it does represent a country, it's not so much nationalism as fandom - like being a weeaboo.)
people naturally seek status in one way or another, and people naturally seek group memberships and situate themselves within the group, and then situate the group relative to other groups. this, unlike nationalism itself, is perfectly natural and happens in all contexts. (e.g. what's being a stakhanovite but trying to be the highest status proletarian?)
almost everything people do can be explained by status games, but that's another story.
Corbyn status?
>>2517721The UK left needs to build an idea of British patriotism based on British history, British class identity and British working class ingenuity.
I mean for fuck sake, Socialism itself functionally came out of the UK Arts and Crafts movement and Marxism is functionally a fucking British ideology, it was literally developed in Manchester and London and the Workingman's International Workingmen's Association was founded by Marx and 2 Brits, George Odger and Edward Spencer Beesly.
If Modern Socialism has a foundational city, it's Manchester.
There is so much that could be done with a positive British Socialist movement, narrative and imagry, that is taken up by bullshit oikophobia and just LARPing every movement from the US. The reason I'm so harsh on the British Left is how I saw it literally throw it's entire mass movement down the tubes for fringe identity movements, in particluar the worship of T to cultish levels along with the biggest political and media assault on the British left in living memory being responded with by British leftards doing BLM larp in a country with the most pathetically pussy police on earth (literally watched 2 cops get bullied and mocked by teenagers to tears and running away when the cops tried to stop them from doing sniff in public) and pulling down statues of Churchill.
Look at modern Chinese propaganda, it's Socialist, patriotic and makes you proud. This is absolutely the sort of shit that the British left should be messaging, especially as Socialism is functionally a BRITISH IDEOLOGY. To the left, it should be the history of the arts and crafts movement, to the right, it should be the fact the British industrial worker built the fucking modern world.
Why in fuck should toff ass pedo aristocratic Tories who spend their time manicuring their nails and fucking boys in boarding schools to the extent the UK literally has a unique psychologically disorder called "public school boy syndrome" be the ones to claim British innovation and achievements that were done by British working class hands largley in places like Birmingham, Manchester, Sheffield?
>>2518334the problem is that you've got the economics a bit backwards. a positive British socialist identity is a project that can only be undertaken once you've got a British socialist economy, and the best way to get a British socialist economy is to rally the people alienated by the current British 'project' behind a
socialist identity. (I mean, I've got to recommend Edgerton again, but remember that the postwar British nation-state only came to be because Attlee and co. oversaw its emphasis change from global, relatively liberal empire to national developmentalist state.)
there is no mass movement that was thrown down the drain for US identity politics. Indeed, one of the best things that has happened for the British left is that it can ride the coattails of America's socialist ("in name only" perhaps) revival.
more realistic drivers for the left are to focus on (a) local radical history (because most people feel a strong connection to their local area, and unlike the national identity, local identities haven't been completely fucked up by incompetent policy) and (b) british radical victories (to show that you can actually do something here), without yet trying to create any real sense of British identity in the target audience. As it stands, throwing British flags everywhere as the Chinese can do with their flag (which, after all,
they changed after going red) would just send mixed messages. "make britain great" you can get away with, but "make britain great again" is going to ruffle feathers…
p.s. You just can't resist getting a pop at transhumanists in there, can you. if you think that what's needed is more flags, more pride in british history, more trans-bashing, and for the police to GET TOUGH, have you considered a little-known self-proclaimed demsoc fringe movement known as the Labour Party?
p.p.s. i am not dropping this point: it is not oikophobia to dislike people who
are not like you. if a scottish nationalist does not like the english, he is not an oikopobe, he is a xenophobe. why, then, should it be oikophobia for - say - a 30 year old socialist scouser to think that a 65 year old racist freak in clacton who thinks he personally fought WW2 is a wanker who should be called a wanker instead of pandered to? these people do not really have anything in common. you can say "they have nationality in common!!", sure, but they're not really linked together by a functioning national economy, they're not
materially linked together.
>>2517734i slightly disagree. i think palestinian advocacy by westerners actively relies on a blood and soil nationalism which they appropriate on behalf of other groups. all third-worldism is this sort of surrogate fascism, where its "acceptable" to talk about genocide as long as its against the white proletariat (the supposed "aristocracy of labour" which cant even pay their bills). the right also depend on a certain third-worldist orientation, where they'll point at their favourite noble savages and say "yes brother, im homophobic and sexist too. the left are the real racists by trying to impose western values on africa". so its these sorts of games of objectification, which ultimately rely on insidious hypocrisy. as it goes, only a first-worlder has the luxury belief of third-worldism, while people who live in the third world are rushing into the liberal west. this is not a unique dichotomy however, but operates subjectively. any person from their hometown says its a "shithole", but its still "their" shithole, if you know what i mean. male friendships operate on a sort of love which is expressed as mutual debasement. insults, crudeness, etc. but if an outsider attempts to join in, it may be interpreted as hostile. so then, a friend is someone youre "allowed" to insult and of whom you want to be insulted by (vidrel). what the western leftist fails to recur in their consciousness then is that their debasement of the west is only possible by their placement within it. it is love, misrecognised as hatred, in their own subjectivity. western values is our mutual debasement, etc. that is our postmodern patriotism, while the palestinian authenticity can be kitsch or awkward, like the right-winger who drapes himself in the union flag. its low-status to not "get it". i fear however, that many leftists themselves are not "getting it" and are acting as black-facing prostitutes. lets all embrace irony again.
>>2518375>blah blah blahI'm not racist but it's really fucking annoying how wypipo think their culture is something special when it's more like the culture they project on Africans and Indians
>>2518334you are an insidious freak who defends right-wing chauvinists for "loving being british" (what british identity exactly, that of the rabblerousing racist skinhead?) all you specifically want is the worst, most artificial identity to be plastered everywhere, and anything else is "oikophobia"
>>2518375i don't entirely disagree on third worldism in and of itself, but the bulk of the cases in question aren't third worldist. you don't have to be a third worldist to support palestine - israel has been so negatively polarizing that even lib-dems hate them now. nor are most cases of, if you will, "anti-britishness" rooted in distaste for the labour aristocracy - they're rooted in distaste for lumpen, petit-bourg, and retirees. people who are, if we can be frank about it, painfully uncool. it's not a generalised distaste for the west (hence why, for example, ukraine flags got a look in even with some cool people.)
with typical british arrogance, i would add that american anti-americanness seems like a much stronger case of debasing something because they are within it. (frankly, because americans can't mentally situate themselves outside america.)
i think you can put a lot of stock, really, in a chunk of politics being cool vs uncool. which makes sense, really, given the main divides are "young vs old" and "educated vs uneducated"
>>2517774Why does she always ignore me now :(
Fwiw youse can probably reclaim the flag if you can push the rightist into flying and identifying with the St Georges Cross
>>2518388ironically in the 2000s there was talk of using st. george's cross progressively because the BNP loved their british flags.
>>2518389the remarkable thing is that this was legislated by the tories but they set it so that it would only come into force under labour.
a rare genius move from the late Tory party. (and a typical Starmer blunder to not repeal it somehow)
>>2518383yes i agree with the elitist paradigm of cool vs uncool, the same way as i had previously defined it, the left is implicit in its semiotics, which is like how a joke is only funny if (1) youre in on it, and (2) you dont explain it, and both sort of complement each other, since an "inside joke" is always funnier than a dad joke, lets say, since the enjoyment is derived from its exclusivity.
this is the tract of fashion; its nothing more than a class relationship between what is new and unique to what eventually becomes popular. we hear about popularity, but its only at this margin of mainstream influence that fashion must move back toward its new creation, even if its just a recycling of the old. another issue is that when ideas are fashionable, their status as fashion and the morality can be misrecognised, like how the edgy joke is not meant to be literal, even if it discloses some truth by its means to be explicit.
the palestinian movement is fashionable and so is being simultaneously misrecognised as a life cause to some people. they are confusing their enfranchisement with the cool kids into a locus of religious belief. not to be too pragmatic, but horrors of humanity exist every day, yet they are rendered as background noise to what is foregrounded in one's identity regarding this particular geopolitics. lets say you were an alien looking objectively at earth, would palestine really be the centre of your observation? no. so then, as you say, its something subjective or symbolic added to it.
of course its in the first case muslim identity politics (which the liberal left is learning is not quite compatible with egalitarianism, as much as this is a unifying wedge issue; i.e. adnan hussain and mothin ali), and secondly, its a source of immense enjoyment from what we may call self-hating (self-loving) westerners. beyond the fervour of the marches, there is only cold bureaucracy and diplomacy. we see for example that trump's efforts to offer peace have only made things MORE indignant for the protestors (even as palestinians themselves are compromising). so then, the subject and object of the issue are at odds. after the screaming and crying, what is the actual solution? but as we see from various slogans like "trans rights", there are only problems without solutions - thats what makes these things addictive.
>>2518395There's no need to overcomplicate it like that, people just don't trust a genocidal state so they stay mobilised
Simple as
>>2518383>>2518395this enjoyment of the complaint as an end-in-itself is also universal of human experience. its what underlies proletarian irradicalism for example, where the identity of a worker as a martyr satiates the symbolism of one's place in the cosmic order. this is why revolutionaries do not possess the slavish identity of the lower classes, because being a victim is too enjoyable to give up. the political right are experts at this, like how "the deep state" as this phantom entity is lurking behind every decision they make. why did brexit fail? ah, the deep state. why did tory policies make everyone poorer? the deep state, etc.
what is terrifying to someone like nigel farage for example is self-responsibility, cos when he has no one else to blame, what else does he have left? scapegoating then is not simply the victimisation of the other, but also to make oneself a victim of others.
>>2518398dont you think theres an inherent disconnect from the scale of this issue and its symbolic importance however? for example, many people care, but many people couldnt even point out palestine on a map, and likewise for your average zionist pointing out israel.
>>2518402What was the population of Gaza before this?
What is the population of Gaza now?
>>2518404no idea
but youre arguing numbers; this is not the heart of the argument, otherwise you would be a diplomat like trump, saying "ceasefire make numbers go down". the palestinian protest is in lacanian terms, a "signifier" (S) - it only refers to itself. there is no policy for the protestors, since ceasefire is "not enough". like "trans rights" its an undefinable cause with no policy.
>>2518408>I don't know anything about what's actually going on but I have something to sayOk bye
>>2518408there's a fairly clear policy of getting israel out of palestine and, more generally, having our government disengage with israel. it is, if you like, an unrealistic policy but it is not particularly unclear.
(trans rights is a more interesting case because while trans people themselves have a fair number of clear policies that they want, pro-trans people are generally ignorant of what those policies are and like trans people only for their semiotic value. hence why the scottish government went for gender recognition reform over preventing the literal collapse of one of their gender clinics - which now has a 250+ year waiting list.)
>>2518411like kiekegaard says, you canmot be reasoned into faith, but must believe before you know you believe (electship). people dont join marches because they read some statistics, but because they are inherently attracted to the ritual of public outrage. it would be equally false to claim that every england flag waving fella is a learned gentleman who became patriotic from his own research. politics is ultimately irrational.
>>2518412>getting israel out of palestineso, a so-called "two state solution"?
somehow, i feel like this isnt a common compromise people are willing to accept.
>trans rights is a more interesting case because while trans people themselves have a fair number of clear policies that they want, pro-trans people are generally ignorant of what those policies are and like trans people only for their semiotic value. i disagree. ive literally never heard a list of what people want in law, but only sloganeering without content.
>>2518413no, a one state solution: a multiethnic palestine. (which, like south africa, would probably see a voluntary exodus of the people who did well out of apartheid.)
the two state solution has lost all credibility, partly as people ask awkward questions like "and in this two state solution, will palestine be allowed an air force?" (or, conversely, will israel be denied one?) and partly because it's what mainstream politicians (all clearly operating in israel's interests) still pay lip service to.
>i disagree. ive literally never heard a list of what people want in law, but only sloganeering without content.how much attention do you give the issue? in particular, by looking at both sides internal conversations rather than looking at "the debate"? i couldn't tell you what specific planning regulations YIMBYs want scrapped, but that doesn't mean i assume they've no real demands.
>>2518420>multi-ethnic "palestine"what does this mean in all practical reality though? you are not saying a multi-ethnic "israel", for example.
>demands of trans rightsthere are no specific demands.
>>2518449a state named palestine occupying the territory of the former mandatory palestine in which the government no longer supports apartheid policies. it is not called "israel" because israel implies a jewish state and the legitimacy of the current state of israel. palestine, on the other hand, is a neutral term. (in theory/history if not in practice. obviously the israelis don't like it, but a chunk of current pro-palestine sentiment is really just negatively polarized "israel are cunts and need to take an L" sentiment.)
there comes a point where being purposefully obtuse stops illustrating anything useful.
rather than waste time listing demands for you, let me put to you the inverse: does the anti-trans movement put forward specific demands?
>>2518457so all this blustering is just a for a name change?
colour me sceptical, but i think that like another apartheid state, south africa, there is no forgiveness, and the goal is to reclaim the land from its colonisers. lets not be naive.
>trans rightsso now you cannot define trans rights except negatively as anti-anti-trans rights. why not just accept that the term "trans rights" signifies nothing in itself? its a slogan, like "free palestine".
>>2518466Fine, let's split the difference and call the new state Pissrahell to honour its two main ethnicities
>>2518466If Palisrael became an equitable multi ethnic socialist democracy then it would be fine. We don't have to be all like 'land back', if someone is born in a place they have no culpability for whatever colonialism was perpetrated by their ancestors/parents unless they go on to perpetrate it themselves. If we argue otherwise then we'd have to ethnically cleanse half of the world to return land to the original owners, many of which don't even exist as identifiable groups anymore. Palestine/Israel realistically is never going to be a purely Muslim Arab country again. Even the countries which are now enthusiastic about ending the violence and sanctioning Israel wouldn't support ethnic cleansing of Jews.
>>2518466there is no naivite. you cannot claim on the one hand that it is "just for a name change" and then, with the other, go "actually, it would look like the end of apartheid, they would be reclaiming the land from its colonisers" (god! no! nobody saying "free palestine" could possibly imagine a free palestine might involve that - quick, call haaretz! get the board of deputies on the line! send a fax to labour for israel!)
whites still live in south africa. they live with the legacy of having been cunts that antagonized the majority population, sure, but it is what it is. (you could also point to frankenstates like bosnia for a future outcome.)
if you come back to the original point, it is that you have never looked beyond the slogan to find actual demands of the movement that uses the slogan. i do accept that the term "trans rights" signifies very little. (but "anti-anti-trans" isn't nothing at a time when all the wronguns of the world have united around being anti-trans!) once again it seems you are being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse rather than to illustrate any actual point. slogans don't really mean anything? they're just an audio jingle for a group? golly-gee-wowzers, that's an interesting insight! well, that's all we've got time for - now let's go to a commercial break!
drink coca cola, delicious and refreshing, coca cola revives and sustains, the great national temperance beverage, good til the last drop, whenever you see an arrow think of coca-cola, three million a day, thirst knows no season, enjoy thirst, refresh yourself, six million a day, it had to be good to get where it is, pure as sunlight, around the corner from anywhere, coca cola… pure drink of natural flavors, the pause that refreshes, ice-cold sunshine, america's favorite moment, the best friend thirst ever had, thirst asks for nothing more. coca-cola goes along. whoever you are, whatever you do, wherever you may be, when you think of refreshment think of ice cold coca-cola, coca cola is coke, the only thing like coca-cola is coca-cola itself, how about a coke? passport to refreshment, coke knows no season, where there's coke there's hospitality, along the highway to anywhere, what you want is a coke, for people on the go, coca-cola… makes good things taste better, sign of good taste, the cold, crisp taste of coke, coca-cola refreshes you best, be really refreshed, things go better with coke, its the real thing, i'd like to buy the world a coke, look up, america, coke adds life, have a coke and smile, coke is it!, america's real choice, we've got a taste for you, red, white, & you, catch the wave, can't beat the feeling, official soft drink of summer, can't beat the real thing, always coca-cola, always and only coca-cola, born to be red, coca-cola always the real thing, coca-cola enjoy, life tastes good, coca-cola… real, make it real, the coke side of life, open happiness, taste the feeling, turn up your rhythm, together tastes better, open like never before, real magic, share a coke >>2518474>If we argue otherwise then we'd have to ethnically cleanse half of the world to return land to the original ownersyes, that is a major tendency in contemporary political thought on the right and the left - racial particularism and self-determination.
>Palestine/Israel realistically is never going to be a purely Muslim Arab country again. to the chigrin of palestinians, who want to evict their oppressors, the same way national liberation movements in africa effectively kicked out the white residents while preserving capital from the west.
>>2518486>nobody saying "free palestine" could possibly imagine a free palestine might involve thatmy point is that this is the entire implicit logic of the palestine movement, so its dishonest to pretend as if this is just about establishing a secular liberal democracy with human rights, or whatever.
>whites still live in south africanot for long. theyre being forced out.
>once again it seems you are being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse rather than to illustrate any actual pointthe point is the psychology of status and protest.
the signifier and signified are internally contradicted.
So many long walls of text. How boring.
No, I will not be reading your arguments or even check what topic they're about. Post some fucking pictures. Act like a real fucking human being.
>>2518530So which name for the new state do you prefer Pissrahell or Palisrael?
So are you a member of Your Party or are you some kind of gaylord?
>>2519114Until its first conference confirms that good people are in control I'm entirely neutral towards Your Party. Joining prematurely is a good way to get invested and wind up stuck fighting rearguard factional battles in an org that's going nowhere, like joining the Labour party.
>>2519114both
>>2519445but also this.
Holding off to see how conference shakes out, see who locally is involved, not interested if the landlords take the power and it just becomes a rebranded SWP
>>2519114I will wait until they can at least figure out a name, decide has power in the party, and their policy positions. Like any sensible person should.
>>2518334Fuck BRITAIN. It is an entirely reactionary idea, as expressed by your support of it. Britain does not kill the monarchy. England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland will sweep away capitalism and its reactionary vestiges. Destroying Britain is the progressive thing to do, and you can only do that by being an actual nationalist of actual countries. You are not a patriot you are a royal dicksucker.
>>2517774>>2518386I wasn't on the thread sorry :( was busy today
>>2519498is england a country?
>>2519807Yes so is Cornwall
Just finished TWT. Feel alive again.
>>2516084>>2515718>>2515808Saw them on Friday in Manchester and their body language was a bit aqkward with eachother.
>>2519807England is my city.
Not gonna lie, London or anywhere broadly in the south feels totally alien and foreign to me
BBC news tonight nothing but 20+ minutes of pure zioslop and maga propaganda. I hate this country.
Sisters… How do we feel about Scottish & Welsh independence, Irish unification, and Cornish / Northern devolution?
>>2520142all are good and the only people who think otherwise are English chauvinists
>>2518334You will never be a real Brit. You are not Welsh, you are not Scottish, you are not English. You are a Irishman twisted by Unionism and colonialism into a crude mockery of Europe's worst shithole. All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back Brits mock you. Your Mps are disgusted and ashamed of you, your "Allies" laugh at your marches and bonfires behind closed doors. Brits are utterly repulsed by you. 8 Hundred of years of colonisation have allowed Brits to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Even Unionists who “pass” sound uncanny and unnatural to a Brit . Your shite accent is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a Drunk Scot to do a bonfire, he’ll turn tail and bolt the second he gets a whiff of your hatred of Catholics. You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight. Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a car, make a bomb put it under your car, and blow it up. The Gardai will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment. They’ll bury you near headstonesmarked with the Irish language, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will know an Irishman is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your so called "nation" is a vague mention in history books. This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.
>>2520225Yeah one of the top 3 people in Your Party is a transphobic mega-landlord who supports incest on religious fundamentalist grounds.
Count me the fuck out, I am not putting up with this clownery.
>>2520248I'm sorry you don't like to see authentic working class religious landlords standing up for authentic working class feminist conference attendees. Typical middle class idpol left behaviour!
They Helped Topple Roe v. Wade. Now Their Sights Are Set on Britain.
For nearly three hours, Nigel Farage, the leader of Britain’s once-fringe populist Reform U.K. Party, commanded an audience in Congress on Sept. 3 as he testified against his own country’s free-speech rules.
The presence of Mr. Farage was the result of a discreet, monthslong campaign by one of America’s most influential conservative Christian groups, famous for being an architect of the effort that helped overturn Roe v. Wade and end the constitutional right to an abortion.
The group, Alliance Defending Freedom, has taken its playbook to Britain and has rapidly established itself as a power broker between the country’s rising populist movement and President Trump’s Washington. They are catalyzing Reform U.K., Britain’s fastest growing political party that is seeking to upend the Conservative Party with an agenda centered on anti-establishment and anti-immigration sentiments. The A.D.F. is guiding its leadership even further to the right, on a conservative Christian agenda similar to the one that is sweeping through the United States.
The A.D.F.’s British arm orchestrated Mr. Farage’s appearance in Congress, reaching out to ask if he would like to give evidence on censorship and passing on his interest to the House Judiciary Committee, which formally invited him, according to both a Reform U.K. and a Republican official. An A.D.F. lawyer testified alongside Mr. Farage in the hearing, together building a case against what they saw as growing government censorship in Europe. A.D.F. officials have also quietly arranged briefings in Britain with visiting congressional leaders. They brokered a secret meeting between Mr. Farage and top State Department officials in London. And in private briefings, they have supplied the Trump administration with attack lines that cast the British government as hostile to free speech.
Britain is, in many ways, an unlikely place for an American anti-abortion organization to build a base and leverage influence. Abortion rights hold overwhelming cross-partisan support and, unlike in the United States, religion plays little role in national politics.
But the A.D.F. believes that British politicians, and the public, can be swayed and wants abortion rights to be rolled back, its lawyers said in an interview. More broadly, the group wants to empower conservative Christianity in Europe, and it sees Britain as a key bridgehead.
The A.D.F. has begun its effort with a topic it believes will resonate with British voters: free speech. The group is spearheading an alliance of organizations that argues that Britain’s """"""""""center-left"""""""""" government is too restrictive on political and religious speech.
For the A.D.F., freedom of speech is intrinsically tied to religious freedom. Its task force of lawyers in Britain has challenged the prosecutions of Christians who were arrested for praying silently outside abortion clinics, and taken up the case of a student midwife who was suspended after making anti-abortion comments on social media. Abortion “buffer zones” — protected areas around clinics designed to prevent harassment — have been cited by conservative groups like the A.D.F. to declare a free speech crisis in Britain.
Despite its growing presence in Britain, the A.D.F. has remained relatively obscure, unlike in America, where it has grown powerful through high-profile Supreme Court cases that have carved out more space for Christianity in public life. The group has represented clients in the United States who are opposed to abortion, gay and transgender rights and contraception coverage in health care. Its allies include Vice President JD Vance and Mike Johnson, the speaker of the House, who is a former A.D.F. lawyer.
Britain has no similarly prominent political figures who push for the Christian faith to have a central role in government. The A.D.F. has cultivated an unlikely ally in Mr. Farage, who has previously described himself as a supporter of abortion rights and does not attend church, following a high-profile spat with the Church of England, which he described as “woke.”
As the A.D.F.’s influence in Britain has grown since Mr. Trump’s re-election, Mr. Farage has suddenly started speaking out against abortion. The New York Times could find no previous record of him campaigning against abortion during his 31-year political career — in fact, in 2019, as the leader of the Brexit Party, Mr. Farage stated he had no official party stance on abortion. In November, he called for British lawmakers to debate rolling back the abortion limit. He went further in May, calling the current limit of 24 weeks “utterly ludicrous.”
Until now, public knowledge about the relationship between Reform U.K. and the A.D.F. was limited to a single quote Mr. Farage gave to the group, which they pushed out in a press statement. But the A.D.F. has quietly been courting the party since at least 2024.
The A.D.F. and other American anti-abortion groups used the argument of incrementally rolling back the cutoff on abortion from about 24 weeks to earlier gestational limits to ultimately end the constitutional right to abortion.
For the A.D.F., the relationship with Mr. Farage appears to be a pragmatic one, similar to its dynamic with Mr. Trump. A disrupter with no consistent personal stance on abortion, Mr. Trump provided critical support for the A.D.F. and its broader conservative Christian alliance to win their half-century-long campaign to topple Roe v. Wade.
“Our primary objective is to try and ensure that the human-rights framework applies as robustly as possible to Christians. And then the wider society,” Mr. Price said.
In the United States, the A.D.F. worked with conservative lawmakers and strategically used the courts to eventually overthrow the right to abortion. But in England, abortion access is legislated through Parliament and cannot be overturned through a judicial decision.
To succeed in Britain, the A.D.F. would have to adapt its playbook.
Shaping Public Opinion
Since 2020, the A.D.F. has quietly added more staff to its British operation. It increased the size of its team fourfold to 12 employees and quadrupled the money it sends to its British arm to more than 1 million pounds, or $1.35 million.
Its lawyers tried to get officials to notice free speech issues through clients it called “victims of censorship,” but were largely unsuccessful.
That changed when Mr. Vance, a Catholic who shares similar values as the A.D.F., became vice president. Almost immediately the organization’s message reached a global audience.
At the Munich Security Conference in February, one of the biggest international stages in politics, Mr. Vance used his platform to criticize an ally.
“In Britain, and across Europe, free speech, I fear, is in retreat,” he said. He highlighted the case of Adam Smith-Connor, an A.D.F. client who had been convicted after silently praying within an abortion clinic buffer zone in southwest England.
Mr. Price, the A.D.F. lawyer, privately credited the A.D.F. for getting Mr. Vance to mention the case in his speech, according to two British and U.S. officials he briefed. Mr. Price told the Times that he did not personally speak to anyone from Mr. Vance’s team and was “as surprised as anyone” by the mention in Munich.
Such a diplomatic and publicity win was important for the A.D.F. Drawing attention to cases like Mr. Smith-Connor’s is part of a long-term strategy to shift public opinion around abortion. In the United States, more than a decade ago, anti-abortion activists challenged similar buffer-zone laws as part of their long-term strategy to shift political discourse with the goal of rolling back abortion rights.
“The debate is in Parliament,” Mr. Price said. “And the parliamentarians are elected by the people, and so their priorities will only change when the public mood changes. And the public mood is changing.”
The A.D.F. is also focusing its efforts on raising support on university campuses and social media platforms, like X, which can magnify fringe views. Mr. Price said that Elon Musk, X’s owner, has personally posted about some of A.D.F.’s cases, and that X was amplifying the group’s concerns about Britain and freedom of speech in a “way that probably didn’t attract the same amount of attention in the past.”
It has achieved such success through deliberately framing its cases as being about protecting free speech, rather than restricting abortion.
A.D.F. employees, who are not registered lobbyists in Britain, don’t lobby but do “offer briefings to anybody who wishes to access it,” Mr. Price said. Until recently, the group was a stakeholder of one of the biggest interest groups of cross-party lawmakers in Westminster, the All-Parliamentary Group on International Freedom of Religion or Belief. It provided the A.D.F. with access to Parliament and politicians like Fiona Bruce, a former Conservative lawmaker who was the prime minister’s special envoy on religion until 2024.
The A.D.F. is not focused on Britain only because of its free speech issues. It also recognizes the political and legal influence that Britain holds abroad.
“What the U.K. says matters internationally,” Mr. Price said. “If things change for the better here, it has an effect more widely.”
A Secret Meeting
A private area for members of the Old Queen Street Cafe, a brasserie steps away from Parliament that’s often abuzz with lunching politicians, was usually closed at 8:15 in the morning. But a manager had been persuaded to open early for a confidential, high-level meeting in March that, messages show, the A.D.F. had brokered.
The group’s aim was to get Mr. Farage in a room with Samuel Samson, a young Trump political appointee and senior adviser for the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor, a U.S. official with knowledge of the events said. Mr. Price wanted the American right to forge its relationship with Britain through Reform U.K., as he believed they were the only credible party taking censorship in Britain seriously, according to the U.S. official and a Reform U.K. source.
Mr. Samson was in Britain as part of a State Department delegation he was leading that addressed free speech, following concerns that Mr. Vance raised. The U.S. Embassy in London oversaw the visit, but at that point its diplomats did not have a significant relationship with Reform U.K. Back in March, Mr. Farage’s party did not have a single elected council member in municipalities and also was not yet topping public opinion polls. (Today, it is consistently leading the Labour Party in the polls, had 677 council members elected in May’s local elections, but still has only five elected national lawmakers).
Over breakfast, Mr. Farage and Mr. Samson discussed abortion buffer zones, censorship cases and online safety laws, according to the officials. Also present were aides and two of the embassy’s top diplomats, who had joined for oversight of the issues, which were high priorities for the new Trump administration, one of the officials said.
On two occasions this summer, the A.D.F. was invited to brief senior U.S. officials. In May, they provided the State Department with a private briefing of examples of government efforts to restrict free speech in Britain, communications show.
And in June, Mr. Price and a colleague met with Mr. Trump’s new ambassador to Britain, Warren Stephens, a wealthy investment banker from Arkansas with longtime ties to anti-abortion politicians like Mike Huckabee.
Shortly afterward, U.S. officials asked for Mr. Price’s help organizing a second meeting between officials and free speech organizations to discuss censorship issues they felt were pertinent for the Trump administration to be pressing the British government on.
On July 29, the congressional delegation from the House Judiciary Committee, led by Representative Jim Jordan, a Republican, filed into the Grand Committee Room inside Westminster Hall. The lawmakers were there for a “Civil Society Round Table,” as it was listed on the delegation schedule, as part of their fact-finding mission on free speech and censorship in Europe.
In his opening remarks, Farage said that the United States and Britain shared a commitment to not only free speech, but also the promotion of ==“Judeo-Christian values,” according to six people present.
It was a phrase foreign in British politics, but common in the United States, where the Christian right has sought for years to elevate America as a Christian nation. Yet Mr. Farage has occasionally cited a need to return to Judeo-Christian values as a way to promote his populist message.
Two days after testifying to Congress in Washington on Sept. 3, Mr. Farage was back in Britain for his first Reform U.K. party conference as leader, telling a rapturous audience in Birmingham, “We are the party on the rise.”
A British MAGA undercurrent ran through the event, as seen in the “Make Britain Great Again” baseball caps, and heard in Mr. Farage’s nationalistic speech, in which he railed against mass immigration, “society breakdown with law and order” and “sky high” taxes.
Mr. Farage made no mention of abortion, as he had in Congress, to his British audience. But he did attack the government for doing “everything they can to crush free speech online,” and claimed that Britain refuses “to acknowledge publicly the Judeo-Christian culture and heritage that we have and that underpins everything that we are.”
>>2519445>>2519453>>2519459no wrong you need to join and make sure trots dont immediately sink their teeth in
>>2519871so english nationalism = good 🏴
british nationalism = bad 🇬🇧
?
>>2520858ol' donnie dementia
>>2520867english civic nationalism* (england should leave the UK, british empire was bad for english national development) good, english chauvinist nationalism (britain = greater england, celts should do what england says, british empire was a good thing, the peak of english skill and relevance) = bad.
the latter can take the form of either 'british' or 'english' nationalism because the lines are blurred.
*for want of a better term
>>2520867There is no such thing as a "brit" it's a mental illness cooked up by irish men from Ulster.
Tony Benn was right
>>2520873peter hitchens has supported english independence for years now
>>2520925the weekly benefits cap per person can be around £300, so thats about a minimum wage salary after taxes. you can deck yourself out with this pocket change, on top of robbing people and begging.
>>2520925
scams on apps like ebay, vinted, facebook
>>2520979Nobody cares about your youtube page here you self promoting faggot.
>>2520925
They're gonna be fake or 2nd hand. Or they're selling not just smoking.
>>2520979the comment section only radicalizes any reasonable person that ethnonationalists and nazis need to be beheaded
>>2521090>ethnonationalists>nazisjews then?
>>2521090theyre also turning on him for his heritage. AA was a "good boy" til this moment, now he's a racial traitor. at least he's learning the hard way what the "patriots" are all about.
>>2521156oh look more problems
>>2521114no
>>2521127it is honestly funny how willing they are to cannibalize a fellow traveler this easily
>>2521156couldn't you rule caste-based discrimination as racial discrimination?
>>2521164is it a small place? i imagined so because hilariously the to in opposition knew each other on a first name basis.
>>2521229Thats because she literally was alive when the shit happened to begin with during the six day war and shit.
>>2521229i dont think this is that uncommon an opinion of a certain generation. like my gradfather was very conservative, but he hated the zionists and thought they were all terrorists and maniacs.
>>2521159you know a lot of influencers are paid to promote certain ideas don't you? And that they ultimately do it for the money? Right?
>>2521216It's small enough that you definitely get to know a few outspoken characters. Don't know these people though
>>2521331it's irrelevant whether he believes it or not, that's the point, he's a fellow traveler nonetheless and is starting to diverge from them, and it's real funny
>>2521991
Aren't you a yank?
remember when sultana made all that big fuss about it not actually being called "your party"? now she is just going with it.
>>2522011it's crazy when people change their minds
Keir Starmer is such a pathetic cuck ass loser
He'd get down on his knees and lick Trump or Netanyahu's boots clean if either asked behind closed doors
Shithole country
Also legalise weed already damn it
>>2522178i just dont believe it
reform will gain seats but will never be a majority. next government might have to be a coalition.
>>2522178I suspect Reform would win or come extremely close to an outright majority, but I don't trust Daily Heil slop polling for a moment.
>>2522275appears that its mapped by ethnicity.
london, birmingham, cardiff and manchester…
>>2522275>all centered around Londonbig whoop it's the same crowd as when Corbyn was leader of the Labour party. britain is finished. time to move on.
>>2522178No seats for northern irish unionists ?
>>2522281the boys club is ready to evict the reactionary tenants!
>>2522282>it's the same crowd as when Corbyn was leader of the Labour partyas the map shows, its mostly just a muslim party.
>>2522332i went to a comprehensive in the norf
i learned fuck all lol
Both Greens and Your Party are reformist centre-left organisations that are a part of the system and institutions of power.
They will not end capitalism or challenge the status quo, not ever. Their organisations are full of bad actors.
Support and vote for them it they're the best parties standing in your local area, but recognise they aren't Marxists, they aren't Communists, we still have to generate real change via other organisations and prepare for the opportunity to overthrow their institutions.
When Reform take power, that might well create the atmosphere and panic to generate the movement needed amongst the masses for the founding and growth of such revolutionary organisations.
Even then, we are not Americans, we do not have access to arms. We have to find a way to cause the overthrow of the regime without such tools.
It may be impossible, maybe we will have to wait until we are liberated by outside forces, but I feel we must still do all we can by ourselves for now, which means organising, staying strong, supporting these moderate cucked Corbynite and Green projects where they serve our goals.
>>2522398Not sure why you didn't notice but that in fact did not happen.
>>2522398Okay well it's been 150 years since Marx said that and it still hasn't come true.
Surely another 150 years of voting for the centre-left will cause the revolution to spontaneously occur though brother, keep going!
>>2522389>Even then, we are not Americans, we do not have access to arms. We have to find a way to cause the overthrow of the regime without such tools. We don't have the tools to overthrow the government either. A bunch of small arms isn't going to allow you to overthrow the government. Most coalition soldier deaths in Iraq were caused by IEDs which are just as illegal to build in America as in Britain.
I don't even feel strongly about gun-control but I would love it if we didn't have firearms so we could put the LARP aside.
>Support and vote for them it they're the best parties standing in your local area, but recognise they aren't Marxists, they aren't Communists, >It may be impossible, maybe we will have to wait until we are liberated by outside forces, but I feel we must still do all we can by ourselves for now, which means organising, staying strong, supporting these moderate cucked Corbynite and Green projects where they serve our goals.Yeah, do critical support, or run your own candidates.
>>2522389Yes, I would say the only party that you should vote for is Sinn Fein if you are in occupied Ireland since they don't recognise the paedophile parliament. I will vote for Plaid probably but they are such cucks (Labour does so much shitty propaganda about how they want independence when Plaid aren't even pro-independence in any meaningful way!). Bourg will always be bourg.
>>2522398Marx was not right about every single thing he said. Everyone says things that are not properly thought through or that didn't age well (like this), not every thing people say can be well thought out, we will all spout rubbish from time to time. The essence of dogmatism is upholding random positions classic Marxists held that don't mean anything to us in the modern day in service of revisionism.
>>2523187
You have never engaged with the point that it is not oikophobic to dislike things that are alien to you. You take national culture for granted rather than recognising it's basically constructed and that in the UK's case, constructed badly.
You understand in an instant that a reform voting racist pensioner from an east coast shithole is not "oikophobic" for loathing multicultural London, then call a 20-something Glaswegian socialist oikophobic for loathing the equally (if not more) foreign racist. Instead of emphasising what is good and held in common, you emphasise what is bad and pushed by the existing establishment.
The best part is that Reform and all the wankers you want to pander to would gladly put you back on the boat to wherever your ancestors came from. It would be funny if it wasn't so bleak.
>European country spies on us
I sleep
>USA spies on us
I bend over, spread my cheeks and thank them for doing it
>Israel spies on us
I bend over, spread my cheeks and thank them for doing it
>China spies on us
HOLD UP THIS IS REAL SHIT!!! MAJOR NATIONAL CRISIS!!!!!!
learning some more about british history.
the anglo-saxon law was mostly unwritten, yet there is a fragment of it archived by "Æthelberht's laws" (600 A.D.) in which the germanic custom of "Wergild" (blood money) is issued as a series of compensations for injury or murder (also a class concept; the higher rank a person was, the more you would have to pay back to them). this mirrors the law code of another germanic tribe, the burgundians, which have recording in "Lex Burgundionum" (500 A.D.) and similarly deals in wergild. i couldnt help but notice that this also bears relation to the islamic concept of "diyah" (quran 4:92), with rates for different rank equally applying. so then, the germanic "wergild" can be synonymised with arabic "diyah":
<The system of dīa is similar to other forms of compensation prevalent in Roman, Germanic, Anglo-Saxon, and other ancient legal systems.https://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/dia/ it is only with the norman conquest that we see the novelty of written laws, councils and parliaments. the earliest charter is perhaps the charter of william the conquerer concerning the city of london (1067), which passes over into the mystique of the original magna carta (1215) and revised version (1297), which both preserve the "ancient liberties and customs" of the city of london, which today, still has its own government. the ancient liberties may intuitively refer to london's original founding as a roman colony (londinium), which always sought defence from the celts and saxons who would fight them off, and so has a particular place in england… on this point, there is a weird racial politics in british history, where it was boudica who first died as a martyr against the romans, but after the saxons invaded, king arthur became a hero to the britons (who by earliest records was of roman heritage). it is also after the normans conquered the saxons that welsh propagandists rewrote the arthur legend to include the prophetic downfall of the saxons as espoused by merlin (Prophetiæ Merlini, 1130). the white heathen dragon (saxons) have their victory as arthur sleeps in avalon (what used to be the "isle of glass" or "glastonbury"), yet he shall return to destroy the saxons and preserve the sacredness of britain (blessed by joseph of arimathea, as is interpolated from "De Antiquitate Glastoniensis Ecclesiae", 1125. this is also inferred by william blake's poem "and did those feet in ancient time", 1808). the counterpart to the white dragon is of course the red dragon (see: flag of wales), which represents the native btitons as opposed to the saxons. thus, britons have constantly sought to defeat the saxons by whichever means, whether by romans or normans.
interestingly, there was a liberal mythology by john lilurbe, founder of the levellers (1645-1650) that what is referred to as "ancient liberties" is what is opposed to the "norman yoke" which has oppressed the english since their conquest in 1066, and so within the protection of what is spoken of in the magna carta is a simultaneous denial, and so the norman law is fundamentally opposed to saxon law (of which we only have the terms of wergild and nothing more). another englishman and early liberal, john milton, also spoke of "ancient liberty" in his 12th sonnet (1645), and of course, his "paradise lost" is a dramatisation of the english civil war. as it is well-known, lucifer is a sympathetic rebel, and is cromwellian, who shines alongside milton's fervent republicanism, yet he writes after the restoration (1660-1688) and so also sees the failure of this ambition. with the constitutionalisation of the monarchy however, liberalism becomes systematised by locke (1690) and goes on to inspire anglo-american politics thereafter. its interesting since the new king is william of orange, a dutch import. so england is realised by its completion of the viking invasion from scandanavia, in the same way that albion is defended from the saxons by a roman prince, who himself becomes seen as a hero to saxons themselves.
within this picture of british history then, we see a constant struggle of racial identity and realisation in the isles, codefied by law and custom. the fantasies of ancient liberties paired with nightmarish remembrance of heathen bloodshed. prophecies and mythologies intertwining into an entangled concept of what becomes a single nation (1707) and a united kingdom (1801). after the unification of britain with the kingdom of ireland, paired with agricultural eviction and industrial opportunity, we see millions of irish pour into britain as troublesome opportunists who then further change the character of the isles (10% of the current british population), for better and worse. irish people were treated with extreme prejudice for over a century, eventually leading to an anglo-irish treaty (1921) which advanced the cause of independence. this only occured in 1949 however, so was concurrent with the postcolonial independence movements of former british territories. following independence, there was also a movement from the colonies into the homeland by the "british nationality act" (1948), which saw mass migration occur in successive stages, which has had exponential trends set since the passing of the "Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Act" (2020), which repealed regulations on immigration set by the EU, leading to lesser borders.
so then, this is one survey of britain's history 🇬🇧😅
geoffrey of monmouth: arthur vs anglo-saxons (1130)
milton/lilburne: ancient liberty vs norman yoke (1645)
william blake: jerusalem vs "satanic mills" (1808)
i suppose a peculiarity nowadays is that the national myth hardly extends beyond 1945, when in the past, britain was defined by a pre-norman legend. 🏴🥀
If you don't support Maccabi Tel Aviv you are ANTISEMITIC
>>2523902if you dont support the Glazers' ownership of Man Utd, you are antisemitic
>>2524102I try my hardest to keep a straight face and ask them who's their favorite waifu for the doorcam footage.
>>2523796Was, they died like a couple years ago.
>>2524102I invite her in for a cup of tea, then own her in debate through facts and logic until she comes out destroyed and reformed as a socialist. Then I send her to suicide bomb the nearest army recruiting office.
>>2523239Sorry but what do you mean by the Glaswegian hating the "equally if not more foreign racist?" I find this statement to be incredibly odd, are you referring to Glaswegians as typically leftist and hostile to English people?
>>2524102I won't open the door because I checked the peephole.
>>2524102>reformuk>scotlandI didn't even know that they campaigned up here.
>>2524323You should be thinking of two individuals rather than groups, but yes. The English racist is not part of the Glaswegian's in-group no matter how you slice it, he is an ugly outgroup yoked into the same political system (statistically, against the Glaswegian's will - Scottish people voted yes and then lost thanks to English votes)
Therefore it is not oikophobia for them to hate one another, it is at best xenophobia, a hate for the different.
>>2524102Der untermenschen.png
merlin's prophecy against english (1136):
>Woe to the red dragon, for his banishment hasteneth on. His lurking holes shall be seized by the white dragon, which signifies the Saxons whom you invited over; but the red denotes the British nation, which shall be oppressed by the white.Therefore shall its mountains be levelled as the valleys, and the rivers of the valleys shall run with blood. The exercise of religion shall be destroyed, and churches be laid open to ruin. At last the oppressed shall prevail, and oppose the cruelty of foreigners. For a boar of Cornwall shall give his assistance, and trample their necks under his feet […] They shall restore the ancient inhabitants to their dwellings, and there shall be an open destruction of foreigners. The seed of the white dragon shall be swept out of our gardens, and the remainder of his generation shall be decimated. They shall bear the yoke of slavery, and wound their mother with spades and ploughs. After this shall succeed two dragons, whereof one shall be killed with the sting of envy, but the other shall return under the shadow of a name. Then shall succeed a lion of justice, at whose roar the Gallican towers and the island dragons shall tremble. In those days gold shall be squeezed from the lily and the nettle, and silver shall flow from the hoofs of bellowing cattle.https://sacred-texts.com/neu/eng/gem/gem08.htmceltic nationalism is the same thing 900 years later.
Cofiwch Dryweryn
was reading about the people's charter of 1838 (the basis of the working-class "chartist" movement for greater democracy in the UK) and it stipulates this:
>That he be a native of these realms, or a foreigner who has lived in this country upwards of two years, and been naturalised.https://www.marxists.org/history/england/chartists/peoples-charter.htmwhich differs to today's policy of naturalisation:
<You must have been physically present in the UK exactly 5 years before the Home Office receives your applicationhttps://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-indefinite-leave-to-remain/how-to-applywhich has apparently been in law since 1981:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61so becoming a british citizen in 1838 was easier. 🤔
>>2524559They didn't have direct flights to the deepest anal crevices of Pakistan in 1838 so there wasn't much of a need for strict immigration policy.
>>2524503This longhouse discourse has a reason, lmao.
>>2524564britain literally invented pakistan in 1947, then granted all commonwealth citizens the right of stay in britain in 1948. i think british nationalism is essentially a symptom of losing the empire and its consequences, where for example, the "white defence league" (1957) was the precursor to the "national front" (1967) and BNP (1982), which seem historically specific to domestic concerns rather than imperial concerns.
>>2524571>Britain literally invented Pakistan in 1947Are you retarded? At least learn the actual histories of these shithole countries you are so quick to defend.
>>2524530
Let me put this simply: the point is not one of nationality, it is that Nigel Farage and his brain dead lumpen/retiree/petit bourg fanbase are more foreign than any Hinduvata larper. At least nobody insists that I've anything in common with the latter. The point is not primarily one of nationality, it is about class, age, and culture. How much arts and crafts does that wanker do?
>>2524564>>2524571here's my favourite paul mooney joke on the topic. race appears to largely be a relationship of territory and ownership (dont want blacks in your neighbourhood, but want black slaves living in your house, etc). of course, many white left-liberals still treat other ethnicities as pets (which was also spoken of recently by curtis yarvin). there was a funny thing that happened with the 2020 riots in the US where rich white liberals supported the riots til they came into their own neighbourhoods, at which point they deplored the violence; "bad dog! dont bite me!"
>>2524576hm? 🤨
>The Dominion of Pakistan, officially Pakistan, was an independent federal dominion in the British Commonwealth of Nations, which existed from 14 August 1947 to 23 March 1956. It was created by the passing of the Indian Independence Act 1947 by the British parliament, which also created an independent Dominion of India.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_of_Pakistan >>2524577i like to say that nationalism can only be justified once these people actually support national capital, since if we allow international investors, it only seems fair to similarly allow international labour. there was an interesting split on the right about this between oswald mosely and enoch powell, where mosely as an *actual* fascist wanted to develop national markets with self-sufficient industries while powell wanted an international market (naturally, being a tory). there was no friendliness between the two as any strategic alliance, unlike today, where any geezer can run as a reform councillor. powell was ultimately part of the buckleyite new conservatism which culminated in thatcherism and blairism.
Scotland as a nation is a useless unit of analysis of who-did-more-colonialism within the UK because of its weird class divide (glibly, upper class British and working class Scots, with a smattering of Ulster unionist stupidity in Glasgow) rendering it a nation colonised not by England but by it's own ruling class.
This is equally why pushing British identity won't work: a British Isles confederation could be sold (perhaps even incorporating a unified ireland at a push) but when you say to a working class Scotland that what you want is a socialist Britain, all that they'll hear is that even under socialism the same bastards who used to run everything under Scottish Labour (and who've now moved on to the pro-war wing of the SNP) will still be in charge.
There's a reason the working class overwhelmingly backed devolution in 1979 (when Scottish unionists killed it!) and independence in 2014, while the upper strata have always been more cautious. Yes, 'Scotland' has a history full of colonial crimes - but the people doing them were overwhelmingly those who'd do the same to their fellow Scots given the chance!
(This is true in England too, but England's ruling class have never had to consciously affect Britishness the way Scotland's has. England isn't a periphery, even if regions are.)
>>2524608we are all colonies of london
(london itself actually generates more tax revenue per annum than wales and scotland combined).
>>2524692They've already had this in Cardiff for a while. The static cameras use 5G and tank the signal so badly.
👀 medieval laws in the UK banning football:
>In 1314, Nicholas de Farndone, the Mayor of London (Lord Mayors came later), acting on behalf of King Edward II, banned football in London.https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/the-year-football-was-banned-in-london-25610/<The Football Act of 1424 (c. 18) was a doctrine passed by the Parliament of Scotland during the reign of King James I. It was a banning of the sport of Football, known in the time as "futbal."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Act_1424added laws are even included, with some concerns that football was too distracting and took away from archery practice… in book 23 of the iliad you can read that in the achaen camp, a festival of 12 days for patrocles' death was given, where many sports were performed - this reportedly occured in the bronze age, so is over a milennia before the first olympic games in 776 B.C.
culture then orients things according to various whims ☺️. from work to war to play; its all in the season. 🫡
>>2524906iirc football was very different back then, it was whole villages of young men and it'd usually just be essentially a big fight, iirc. Shrovetide football would have players in the thousands.
>>2524934yes indeed. there was still handball in effect in 1863 when the official game had been established. even (one-person) offside was only introduced in 1990 lol 😅 the game is always changing. an interesting complaint people have is VAR since its too "strict" with upholding the rules - it shows that rules are implicitly flexible to people, i suppose.
Your Party have put out their draft constitution
Someone else read it so I can confirm it sucks balls, I'm on holiday
>>2525047communism fails because of greed and corruption. Sultana proved this before they even got going
>>2525107The self proclaimed "most racist team on the world", who vandalised and violently attacked the Netherlands last year, must be allowed to destroy British neighborhoods too!
On a similar note, are there any good leftist sports teams in the UK? Celtic are alright aren't they? But I don't know what they'd make of any English people supporting them
>>2525180>The self proclaimed "most racist team on the world", who vandalised and violently attacked the Netherlands last year, must be allowed to destroy British neighborhoods too!mind blowing how the social media clips showed hooligans running around chanting death to arabs. then the news reported how it was the worst anti semitic pogroms, scenes not seen since kristalnacht
>>2525184Apparently Britain is an antisemitic country because we don't want racist football hooligans attacking our neighbourhoods. You have to welcome violent mobs if they're Israeli.
>>2525180I think overturning the ban and have them plan in the UK will backfire. Exposing the British public to actual Israelis will turn them against Zionism.
>>2525180>But I don't know what they'd make of any English people supporting themit's quite common among a subsection of lefties at least.
>>2525402Reform
UK Israel
>>2525014All the comments support them. Fuck this country
>>2525180celtic and liverpool
bill shankley was a socialist and brought in the red kit.
>>2525402its always been israel-first.
the "far-fight" is a creation of zionist billionaires (like robert shillman, peter thiel, elon musk, etc) who gather the rubes under a banner of white supremacy to include israel into the broader movement. empirical proof of the connections are in this article:
<Shillman “fellows” at Rebel News included Katie Hopkins, the former reality TV star, who made a documentary on “the mass slaughter of South Africa’s whites” in September 2018 […] Shillman, a former board member of Friends of the Israeli Defense Forces, hosts a pro-Israel podcast and also funds fellowships through the DHFC thinktank. Its founder, David Horowitz, was an anti-Muslim ideologue described as the “intellectual godfather” of the Trump administration in an obituary when he died in April this year. Another DHFC Shillman fellow was Raheem Kassam, a former Ukip adviser who set up the UK arm of Breitbart News, where Steve Bannon was chair. Bannon, who spoke at Robinson’s rally , once reportedly called him “the backbone of this country” […] At about the same time Shillman’s money was flowing to Robinson, Hopkins and Loomer, he paid more than $200,000 towards the legal fees of Dutch far-right […] The DHFC also promoted far-right US commentator Candace Owens, who is married to former Turning Point UK chair George Farmer…https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/us-cash-turned-tommy-robinson-into-the-poster-boy-of-uk-far-right imagine living under a monarchy lol cucked
>>2525836Embarrassing lmao
Thoughts on Ash Sarkar?
>>2525933Never trust a novaraite
>>2525768lol mask slip, politics is a joke. Corbyn is the most genuine one of the lot
>>2526039I'm all for combating prejudice, but it's more like postjudice from what I can see
>>2526039>and we will not be able to do anything about it.Ryanair cheap flights.
>>2526011corbyn cant even say whether he supports a one state solution, a two state, or commit himself to be an anti zionist
>>2526153To fucking where exactly
>>2526883Fuck off already then.
>>2526171Doesn't change the fact
>>2526883>britains identity was built on inclusionthey've been included! how is it our fault they have no intention of being british?!
>>2526235I hear there's some development work going on in Gaza soon, grab yourself a nice little beachfront villa next to Starmer
>>2525768Very based, but I still feel like it’s playing into the narrative Israel espouses about antisemitic conspiracies by pointing out the high percentages of government support for Israeli lobbying groups when that’s not necessary.
The reason why Israel is supported militarily and economically is obvious with their role in destabilising the Middle East and the oil rich nations within it, but we do that with Saudi Arabia without needing to put it into the public consciousness that they’re the diamond in the rough and we should thank our lucky stars for their existence.
Everyone’s a “friend of Israel” in British right-wing politics because they sanitise the genocide towards a Muslim population who are considered
rightfully deserving of it for being hostile to their “hosts” because of the holocaust also being the result of hostility towards Jews.
If Israel was actually the liberal paradise Bill Maher thinks it is and had a sensible take on sharing the land with people who were already there, it would be 70% of Tory politicians in the “Israel are pussies” org.
the deliveroo caste in my city centre is now racially segregated between black and white drivers
>>2527313In America where I live. It is only Latinos that don't speak English, young Africans or sometimes African Americans or Grey haired White boomers. Never see a young white guy.
>>2526883>>2526886>Fuck off already thenThey always come back like herpes.
>>2527319its been that way here too; only just noticed the white crew tonight so had to comment on it
>>2527325Yeah, it is not too uncommon to see a White delivery guy, but they are like always at least 40, typically like 50 or 60. No idea why.
>>2527341>always late, never early.Would kinda be fucked up if you showed up on time for the bus but it showed up and left early wouldn't it? Maybe that is the reason?
>>2527345in a sense thats always how it is, since being late for the current time is being early for the next. as i say, its an unsettling absurdity imposed upon the punctual.
the bus is here now. skipped over its appointed time to bring us to the next. 30 minutes wasted. no justice.
>>2527351If you go on their website you can get paid if it is 30 minutes. Or maybe thats just for trains, but it does work
>>2527341>what am i supposed to do?bring in more africans
>>2527351Why don’t you drive
>>2527398I would rather die than be a cager
>>2527341I used to be on a bus route that ALWAYS showed up either like 2 minute early or 40+ minutes late no inbetween.
The worst is Bristol buses, the timetable seems to just be a random "suggestion" rather than anything concrete. Buses show up when they want too.
Just thought I'd mention how it's crazy we have massive region of the UK around the Welsh borders - Powys, Herefordshire, Shropshire - which is the size of several small European nations and is just entirely empty.
Just cows, sheep and rolling hills. I know there's some peaks in Powys and I know we need farmland, but on the whole it's prime open empty land smack bang in the middle of our island.
You could easily fit 3 or 4 million more people in new cities and towns in and around that area, not that any of the major parties would ever dare to do that.
We also in the UK have a big habit of growing settlements widewards rather than upwards.
If we had Japanese or Chinese style apartment skyscrapers in our big cities we could easily double the population of those cities.
Critical support to Birmingham’s bobbies against Maccabi Tel Aviv hooligans
>>2527477major infrastructure projects are usually a point of national pride, and something tells me you are allergic to such things
>>2527489I would've thought my post implied the opposite. We need to build massively more. But Brits on the whole are a nation of NIMBYs.
>>2527498churning out generic shitboxes and reaching for a paradigm shift in housing solutions are not the same thing
>>2527498and no I do not accept that a 15% increase in population in as many years is acceptable, organic, or sustainable.
>>2527510I remember being taught that our population was 'class 1' and had stopped increasing. That was at 58 million. Where were all the super smart social scientists in the early 90's that couldn't see this coming??
>>2527514More people means more productive capacity, there’s no such thing as a useless eater, eaters are useful because they drive demand, embrace growth, embrace life, if such a thing is possible on your rainy little island
Prince Andrew is a sweaty paedophile rapist nonce.
According the Virginia Giuffre's new book, Andrew had an orgy on Epstein's island, along with Epstein and 8 girls, 7 of which were underage and spoke no English.
If I say my opinion on the royal family I'm likely to get myself into trouble but I think despite all his faults Robespierre had the right direction of ideas in how they should be treated.
>>2527686every aristocrat must die
>>2527686She said a Bong PM too right?
Virginia Giuffre beaten, raped by ‘well-known prime minister’ in attack that broke Epstein spell, her memoir reveals https://nypost.com/2025/10/18/us-news/virginia-giuffre-was-left-bloodied-and-beaten-by-prime-minister/I mean, that's got to be Blair right?
>>2527697it'd be really funny if maggie did it
>>2527697Wait I guess maybe it was the Israel PM
<In the past, however, she pointed to Israel’s Prime Minister Ehud Barak in court filings as one of the many elites who had raped her, a claim he has repeatedly denied. But I guess Tony Blair is still an Epstein associate of course.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/11/tony-blair-met-jeffrey-epstein-in-no-10-on-advice-of-peter-mandelson-documents-revealTony Blair met Jeffrey Epstein in No 10 on advice of Peter Mandelson, documents reveal >>2527688Truth nuke…
>>2527697Seems like it. He really needs to die a painful death, preferably forced into a Saw movie esque torturous death livestreamed for us all to see after he's been found guilty at the Hague.
>>2527686I'm not a conspiracy theorist type, but if someone told me those inbred freaks drank blood and hunted the poor and minorities for sport, I'd probably believe it. Then again, God knows what Andrew was doing in the Falklands.
>>2527489You really sound like a whiny faggot
>>2527477We're going to turn Powys into a massive gulag after the revolution because only upper class tories live there.
>>2527710Doesn’t matter, spread the rumor, the worse the reputation of the royals the better. We all know the jewels in their crown were stolen, make them pariahs like Israelis.
>>2527477UK can't build fucking shit, they don't even build basic infrastructure for all the new barret estates. This is why I'm against developing the Green Belt because it will all just be dogshit low density barret suburbia based on car travel.
Realistically the UK should be building a new Sheffield population city every 2 years or so packed to the brim packed to the brim with social housing, but they'll never actually do it.
There are plans to expand small towns into small cities"
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-towns-taskforce-report-to-government/new-towns-taskforce-report-to-governmentbut again, just expect car based barret estates.
>If we had Japanese or Chinese style apartment skyscrapers in our big cities we could easily double the population of those cities.Brits are massive fucking nimby faggots when it comes to large buildings, look at how people freaked out over how "Canary wharf ruined London". Canary Wharf was great because of how people avoided it until they slammed homeless and migrant hotels in there so it's now just as shitty as the rest of London in terms of antisocial behaviour.
>>2526995They did exist, but the left specifcally drove them off with elitist university/middle class classism calling them stuff like "Gammons" and shit like that while downplaying concerns of the norf being awash with Pakistani grooming gangs and organized crime. Durham Miners Gala was basically an entire festival of that archetype.
>>2527489Major infrastructure projects in the UK for the past 15 years have been basically all national embarrassment, HS2 is up there with California HSR in terms of what the actual fuck level cringe.
>>2528106the yimby houses in my town are still being built and its been 5 years. of the people who currently live in the finished projects, lets just say that they appear to be "new arrivals".
>>2528106>They did exist, but the left specifcally drove them off with elitist university/middle class classism calling them stuff like "Gammons" The term Gammon literally comes from petit-bourgois demanding we nuke China. You are conflating ethnicity with class.
>>2527507Look at Australia between 1990 and now lol, it's absolutely doable.
>But they've got so much room95% of it is uninhabitable wasteland, everyone's piled into the same handful of cities on the coast
>>2528106Driving off gammon is good, the future is university educated. The new socialist man is a smart, open minded, and tolerant man. (Or woman, or neither)
When politics is polarised around education, as it is, the name of the game is mobilization rather than conversion.
The White working class used to form unions to fight their poor conditions, now they burn down Chinese shops. This is obviously the fault of the left.
>>2528267Funny, but it would be more accurate to say that the white working class is now a young woman with a sociology degree working at Tesco but because that's not aesthetically appealing to left-LARPers they wish they could have racist retirees and petty bourgeois spivs with comedy accents instead
Don't concede that the white working class are write-offs especially when it isn't true
>>2528271having pale skin makes you an imperialist. only adnan hussain can save the world now.
>>2528270Idiotic bad faith post.
University is a filter. Not all smart people go there, but very few idiots make it out with a degree.
>>2528277Liz Truss was a product of British universities
>>2528278Yeah but she is not exactly 'stupid', just ideologically blinkered and not very competent.
>>2528281With that said, I don't think everyone who goes to uni is smart obviously, that's impossible, but it's certainly more likely someone will be smart if they have a degree
>>2528281Holy shit the anglo cope
Everything is unironically Oswald Mosley's fault.
I’m gonna go back in time to dam up the English channel, you’re part of France, you’re part of Europe, that way we never get capitalism
>>2528299For not winning, if Britain actually had to overthrow a fascist regime in its own borders its politics would be infinitely
>>2528278Most elites are, even the incompetent ones. She's also a product of the Lib Dems and Republic, and especially of being a careerist loser.
But the Tory membership who voted for her, how uni educated were they?
(And ultimately: how uni educated are greens/YP Vs Reform UK)
>>2528325elitism has much less to do with academic intelligence than social intelligence, and fundamentally, its about class. even in the working class, maintaining high status concerns so much, like buying all the new clothes and phones.
>>2527532corr imagine what a utopia India is then, they've got all the people and are planning to grow even bigger
>>2528256damn, yeah look at australia, from what I hear it's more of a totalitarian shithole than here
>>2528651Aus doesn't seem too terrible. at least their socdem coded government still have some socdem remnants.
Australia should be Chinese, Aboriginal communities might actually get some investment
During Tommy Robinson's Israeli govt-funded tour, Israeli spox Yishai Fleisher tells him the British "have a special place in hell for turning on the Jewish people."
Robinson—who fashions himself a British nationalist—just sits there and takes it, assuring him Brits love Israel.
>https://x.com/infolibnews/status/1980430174673146352Just curious since I live in a very rural and heavily Reform supporting area, how commonly do you see pro-Palestine stuff if you live in big towns and cities?
Like around here I see lots of England and UK flags, a few Ukraine, NI, and even US flags here, but never any Palestine flags.
On TV it seems like it's not too uncommon for some people to wear keffiyehs or what have you in solidarity but I've never seen that around here.
Does visibly showing your support for a particular cause achieve anything anyway? Isn't it all just virtue signalling if you aren't putting in actual material support or work for a cause?
It should be normal to oppose terrorist organisations. It is not a crime to oppose foreign militaries responsible for genocide, apartheid, famine, kidnapping, torture, rape, child murder, etc.
Death, death to the IDF.
>>2529695Honestly you should always go on the offensive when it comes to Zionists because there is no real logical argument to defend them.
Zionist/Nazi comparisons should be made relentlessly but not "Zionazi" show why Zionist arguments are just Nazi shit, "Do you support a German right to ethnic self determination" should be the response to anybody saying that Zionism is just "Jewish right to ethnic self determination", if someone claims they are Zionist, ask if they support Negation of the Diaspora and if "Diaspora" Jews are detestable degenerate creatures since it is the core theoretical concept of Zionism.
Say the IDF are a Terrorist organization, list IDF crimes, bring up they hold more hostages than hamas, rape and murder hostages etc. Bring up the Jewish community support Terrorism by funding the IDF and Zionist terrorist orgs in the West Bank etc.
The biggest issue the Left has is always fucking always being on the defensive and bending over for the pathologically bad faith Jewish community QQ'ing who 95% support everything Israel does.
>>2529674More just stickers on poles and people wearing Palestine badges on bags, jackets etc.
>>2529626Israel has been literally the least popular country among Brits since the 1990s.
This is again why people bending over for Jewish QQing is retaded, the average Brit hates Israel.
Anyway on other news, the Greens are being massively boosted by the press, again the left are falling for the obvious trap of supporting obvious fucking cranks, so when election season comes, the entire media will turn on them and be like "Yeah the left doesn't want border patrols, wants the military disbanded, doesn't want police, wants to ban the real estate market etc".
>>2528325Both are retarded in their own way.
The most intelligent people I've known though, especially among the left are non-University edcuated. Highly Intelligent working class people who don't get brainwashed into the PMC Uni middle class tend to have the best of both worlds. Actually street smart and in touch with the real world, but book smart enough to be tactical.
The problem with University types is they tend to become extremely out of touch, think that the PMC are the end all and be all of society.
The Retarded Wokening years are 100% the result of largely masses of Tumblr brained University PMCs massively taking over workplaces in the past decade.
>>2530830britain supports israel because the united states owns britain. they arab sprung brits out of the EU, they have extensive data on every brit through facebook and shit, they run the old british naval empire by squatting the same trade routes, they got their first big break taking over the india-china heroin trade from britain, they have all britain's family trusts from offering better tax and interest rates, they have more control over commonwealth armed forces than their respective civil governments, they have all your politicians on tape cheating on their spouses (probs by molesting kids).
they say jump, the UK says how high? they say israel is awesome, then britain loves israel. they want another nationalist island air and missle base shell nation like israel/japan/taiwan/ukraine to fuck with europe? you better believe every braindead cunt you know will be seeing farage, tommy robinson, elon, and an ungodly amount of LLM spam glazing all of them, streamed direct to their tesco phone, every day until they like it.
westminster democracy is a fucking joke designed to manufacture consent for instituting what the US and banking execs want verbatim.
>I'm gonna vote for terry to make greggs pastries a human right>oops terry bought a string of multi million pound properties for 800k a piece private sale with negative interest>now greggs costs even more and each purchase grants mondelez non-contestable ownership of my living soul>I know I'll vote in barry to fix this… >>2530830If I am glib: I have embraced the PMC. In a PMC electorate
>Yeah the left doesn't want border patrols, wants the military disbanded, doesn't want police, wants to ban the real estate market etcWill win you the election. It's only because there are dumbarses and geriatrics who think (citation needed) that the police would actually be abolished (or that the solution to their shithole being a shithole is more cops rather than
leaving by any means possible) that it's not yet a walkover.
In the PMC world, you lose the election campaigning for police abolitionism because it's
so 2021 rather than because it's too radical. In the PMC world you fund public services so they've got something to do paperwork for - meanwhile in dumbworld you defund public services to wipe the smirk off the PMC's faces because even though it hurts everyone, their status falls relative to Dumbo's. Then the savings go to some cunt like Farage (who's low status by virtue of being a wanker, making him an ally of those who're low status because they're not hip enough to keep up with PMC lingo)
It's idiotic on the face of it.
(I don't see things in these terms, but sometimes it's fun to present your argument like a total cunt. Even if it is uncool. Call them PMC if you want, I'd rather be managed by the tedious professional managerial class than by the seething resentful lumpen/petit bourg class.)
>>2531346translation: status is legitimacy and the patriotic ogres are naturally illegitimate
i agree, but this is nothing new. farage as this farcical rebel is still a creature of his failed campaign to "save" britain back in 2016 with brexit, which is where trust in elite institutions failed, despite all predictions coming true in 2020 with the backlash of tory de-regulation. the populist anti-elitism spans all circles, where they become frightfully paranoid about a regime of expertise. anti-intellectual savagery spans the globe with a death-chant to those who want to manage decline rather than let the bottom fall out completely.
>>2531358Yes and no, mostly yes. The status of many current elites is illegitimate (I mean look at the pathetic spectacle of the PLP elves trying to appeal to the ogres) and they deserve their downfall, but on the whole their replacements should be high cultural capital lefty-liberal sorts who're appropriately performatively anti-elitist in a way that chafes a little bit (because it hypocritically deflects from their - deserved - higher status) but not enough that you'd refuse to vote for them.
Labour will die because it doesn't have the guts to become a PMC (and temporarily shelf stacking would-be PMC) party, secure (but modest) in its own superiority.
>>2531414Low status low openness shithole subject to negative selection effects (all the best Britons were smart enough to leave to better lands, we're the descendants of those too foolish, cowardly, or - hopefully not many on leftypol - aristocratically
inbred to leave)
But we can entertain ourselves coming up with ways to save it and reasons for why it's damned.
>>2531404I listened to this. Quite interesting. Will never understand why that kid sticks with labour after they fucked him so hard.
>>2531414This is an utterly retarded (and liberal) conception of what a more or less transphobic society is. go back to reddit.com.
>>2531494>Polling and facts are "retarded and liberal"Gee thanks for that wonderful insight.
>>2531494Instead of thinking rigidly about its conception of transphobia, ask yourself: why does Britain give the ugly dumb and wrong answer to a basically superficial culture war question?
The only thing worse than holding a prejudice is being dumb and ugly enough to openly signal it.
Giving Zarah some cringe points for talking about "SNP austerity" recently.
The single greatest decider of Scottish spending is Westminster spending, the single greatest deterrent of Scottish economic policy is UK wide economic policy. Insofar as there are devolved tax powers, the SNP has used them more progressively than the rUK.
Is it really so hard for the English left to be quiet when they don't know what they're talking about? I mean purely from a credibility perspective, if you actually look like you've got a clue what's happening in Scotland it would be easy to win over voters - they're disillusioned with all the major parties - but you've got to accurately attack the SNP on poor delivery and (as YP are at risk of doing) tolerating socially and economically conservative parliamentarians long after they became liabilities, and sell what you've got over them (as a UK wide, weirdly federal party you'll do more devolution), not dig up risible Labour attack lines that succeed only in letting voters know you think they're too dumb to understand where power lies.
>>2531515Might not be a deep insight but needed stating nonetheless.
>>2532345I love being a burger BUWHAAHAHAHA
>>2532395You do this same kind of shit in amerikkka
though.
>>2532345Police acting like it's a crrime not to support Israel, trying to intimidate people in this country on behalf of a the foreign Americano-Israeli capital-military empire of which our island is a vassal state. Sick but predicatable.
>>2532345>>2532495I thought leftists liked speech being policed
>>2532345She's hot I will save her
>>2532553I donated to her, did you?
>>2532546"Leftists" do but socialists do not.
>>2530850What I mean by Leftists constantly doing this shit of apologizing for Antisemitism, when in reality, the average Brit absolutely knows the elite is 100% bought out by Israel, 99% of "Antisemitism" is just bad faith attacks against critics of Zionism or Israel, and that the average Brit fucking HATES Israel, so there is almost zero fucking issue with, if you are smart with it and aren't just a Islamist/Nazi freak, to go on the offensive.
I also don't think it's just alliegence to the US. Judeophilia among the elite is genuinely because like half the elite are Jewish. In the UK Jews have double the wealth of the next richest ethnic group (Brahmin Indians). If you are earning high 6-7 figures, it's probably more likely you will suddenly have a work and friendship network filled with "Stien" and "Man" last names. This leads to the elite identifying far more with Jews and having extreme judeophilia, than any other group.
If you are also wanting to make it politically, elite old boy clubs like the Lotus club basically mean you are going to have to suck a lot of circumcised dick to make the right connections and networks to get the nod.
Watch TAFS and watch how many elites Adam interviews try to slavishly suck up and show they are good shabbos goys, and this is fucking Adam Friedland they are trying to suck up too. Elites genuinely see Jews naturally as their leadership.
When you notice how elites constantly try do shabbos goy shit around Jews, you cannot unsee it. It's culturalised among elite circles.
>>2531346The Greens are not going to win the election lmao. It's just the left have nowhere left to go since Starmer and the Labour Right have told the entire left to go fuck themselves and are chasing after the Wet Tory bloc.
Watch as election time comes and all the boosting of the Greens turns into a trap and every bit of dirt on Polanski and all the Greens unserious policies get pushed to the front.
>>2531414Based. Reject BPD post-modernist idiocy. This is because the UK is one of the few socities that has feminists and Marxists with a fucking backbone who actually stood by coherent theory rather than being a "GOOD FUCKING PERSON" and appeasing mentally ill misogynistic degens.
>>2532345Leftard wokism and "Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences" is exactly the reasoning they use for this shit. Great example of the Leftard wokie policing when you don't actually hold any power being flipped back again on the left.
But either way in her case she is literally just a Islamist Nazi, literal holocaust denier and such.
>>2532546>>2532558lel
>In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.<J. Stalin, January 12, 1931https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/01/12.htmdeath penalty for saying bad words. 🫣
>>2532727The greens aren't going to win the election (yet) because the country is full of pensioners and resentful low-status idiots, but the demographics get more favourable year by year (more 2019 Tory voters died than switched in 2024!).
Labour aren't going to win the election because despite being the natural PMC party their plan is to alienate everyone who knows the difference between a paedo and a pediatrician.
Media manipulation primarily works on undesirable demographics (remember, if only people with degrees could vote we'd be well into the third Corbyn term despite media aimed at PMC, like the Guardian, doing more than most to undermine him) so the press coming out against the greens won't affect them - the "seriousness" of a policy platform is an illusion: Johnson 2019 and Starmer 2024 both had deeply unserious platforms cosplaying as serious.
The idea that UK feminists are more serious than those elsewhere is risible. Every trans person in the country could be a rapist and the negative attention they receive would still be excessive relative to their numbers. Relative social status is a much better explanation:
The UK has more cranks who resent that transhumanists (on twitter) are high status (on twitter) and they aren't, despite being an Observer columnist and a dutiful class traitor with an affected accent and therefore clearly more deserving. It's so unfair when dangerhairs mock you and spoonerise your stupid double barreled name in the replies to your column where you distastefully joke about Thai transsexuals. (Don't they understand that you're a high status columnist, well above a mere pleb, or a man in a dress [tee-hee!], and certainly above some third world hooker?)
But fortunately there's a waiting audience for their columnist whining on Mumsnet: a Blairite type bitter that society doesn't give a damn about middle aged or older women (a legitimate resentment, but wrongly sublimated into resentment of the young and cool rather than real activism to change this)
Meanwhile in normal countries PMC and liberals understand that it's much cooler to endorse trans rights because it signals their own progressiveness and tolerance and it alienates low-openness conservative losers. It's a brilliant filtering mechanism and a signal of desirable traits to boot.
(Ask yourself: if you wanted to keep /pol/ retards out of your website without adopting an explicitly partisan stance like "no rightists", can you think of a single better rule than "no transphobia"?)
more information:
muhammed's mother had previously called the police because of an axe found in his school bag (prompting a visit by police), he had been caught bringing knives into school before, he had posted videos showing off knives on social media, etc.
so he was known to be a problem, yet no action was taken to search him or expel him. incompetent police, incompetent school, and two broken families. 🥀😮💨
>>2532919Don't care. True criime freaks will get the wall.
The British police men that massacred civilians on Bloody Sunday have been found not guilty of any wrongdoing by a British judge in a British court.
In the United Kingdom it is a crime to mention the identities of the murderers who are responsible for what happened, nevermind trying to serve justice to them.
>>2532946is this another guy who "doesnt care" but really cares that other people care?
>>2532955what a fucking cunt, shame the IRA isn't active anymore to blow the cunt.
>>2532727>But either way in her case she is literally just a Islamist Nazi, literal holocaust denier and such.So what? She should still be allowed to keep her job
>>2533176>>2533193cant tell if boomer cringe, milennial authenticity or zoomer post-irony
>>2533205The latter too, 30:70 ratio.
Attached is boomer cringe (horseshoes back into zoomer post-irony).
>>2532806A degenerated workers state isn't socialist
>>2533233because "real socialism"(tm) would care so much about free speech, im sure.
>>2533239If you can’t take constructive criticism you don’t have politics, you have a cult
>>2533241there are plenty of cultists round these ways.
We need free speech but ruthless punishment of low status idiocy. Criticism must be allowed infinitely but tediousness and ugliness should carry severe penalties. A smart critic should be able to infinitely restate his critique in novel terms, or to hide his ugly implications. He may even be right. A stupid or careless one, however…
>>2533328i think its a waste of time and energy.
there will always be trolls and idiots, but they will scarcely get to the top of anything. let them all collect at the base and feed on scum. a principle of civil government is that the people can order themselves.
but the principle of free speech given (if i am not mistaken) is that with the bill of rights (1688), it only formally extended to parliamentary debate, and so it held well for commoners but not for the peasant. speech is already stratified here in its official capacity. in the 1998 human rights act (basically, our modern constitution of government following blair) free speech is protected, but limits are also placed on it by qualifications of public morality, etc. here it is:
<Everyone has the right to freedom of expression […] The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part/I/chapter/9this is all disregarding "hate speech" (EA2010), and so only concerns public manners of concern (not the private feelings of a so-called "protected" caste). the rules seem properly parliamentarian then, without being punitive or political. the EA2010 also has its issues in overruling GRA2004 for transgender people, so may be preferably scrapped. as an empirical exercise, we may assess whether people have felt more "protected" since 2010. i would guess not.
I live in a a small post-industrial, high unemployment, urban-rural fringe, high crime rate, high murder rate new build lumpenprole deano east midlands slop town that has seen 0 government investment in the last 50+ years.
Every road is full of potholes, every store is either a vape shop, barbers, a money laundering front, pound shop, or a closed down former weed farm, every building is falling apart, pain peeling off, and covered In graffiti.
People go to the local Aldi or One Stop in their fucking pajamas with no shame, 6 year old youths zoom around at 30 mph on electric scooters, youths on BMXs block your path everywhere, 15 year old mums wearing Help for Heroes shirts pushing their prams on every street.
Every road as England flags on lampposts, frequently find racist stickers slapped on bins and signposts, everyone in my locality is voting for Reform and unquestioningly believes Farage is the saviour of Britain.
Unironically what the fuck do I even do? Everything is so fucking grim. GRIM GRIM GRIM.
me from the Norf
me like me beer
me hate me wife
me support Wankashire Athletic
wokies and europeans out
britain for british
simple as
>>2533357this scene is very common all over the UK
its the result of there being no jobs at the job centre:
>24 million people claimed some combination of DWP benefits at August 2024 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/dwp-benefits-statistics-february-2025/dwp-benefits-statistics-february-2025 >>2533357Move somewhere better by any means possible and only come back for Christmas and funerals, even then, ideally only every off year.
You should invite Maccabi Tel Aviv fans in but only in parliament and the House of Lords, lock in all the politicians and the royal family with them, them fire upon whoever happens to get out. It’s the perfect plan.
>>2532806Based. May the racists get executed lmao
>>2533532It works on so many levels, just beautiful.
I may be a filthy Anglo-S*xon by blood, but as an anti-imperialist, socialist, republican I wish to stand with my Celtic brothers and sisters and support their liberation from British colonial occupation.
Which of the Celtic languages should I learn?
Cornish and Manx are beautiful languages, but they're also off the table since they're very niche to the extent it's practically impossible to learn them without moving to their respective regions and I have no desire to be a coloniser.
Breton is obviously not spoken here either.
So Irish, Welsh or Scottish Gaelic it is I suppose? Anyone here speak any? There must be at least one Welshman/Welshwoman here I assume?
>>2534308Welsh is a really good langauge in a lot of ways like words are pronounced how they are spelled. It's not a super difficult but it isn't as easy as Spanish or French tbh, I've been learning a year and a half and I am kind of conversational but not confident (and especially I sound too formal, I haven't learned natural ways of speaking). Tbh I don't think it is taught very well, there are really good youtube channels that bring you through it for most languages but idk with Welsh. Scottish Gaelic is more endangered so that might be better to learn but I also don't think you will find people to speak it with you.
>>2534342Reform could literally never muster more than 5-6 people for demos in Caerphilly (and that is including great replacement nazis). All they had was loads of money, they don't have an organic presence at all. I know lots of people who were really worried they would win but that's only because they put a lot of posters up and their supporters put the stupid flags up in their windows.
What is the Marxist explanation for Labour systematically destroying its own support base to appeal (at best) to a cultural stereotype that is decades out of date? Even if you're completely co-opted, Labour could be a good little liberal party like the Democrats and govern in capital's interest - but Starmer's strategy is like the Dems going back to campaigning like they did in the antebellum south and then being surprised they've lost all their black and liberal voters. (Well, except that this is at least in Dem history while Labour's cribbing Powell from Tory history)
>>2534654the elite theory explanation is that the working class have low social status so cannot be supported by labour. thats it. this is not to say that these surrogate groups like ethnic minorities necessarily have high social status (still, they do out-margin poor whites), its only to say that to support them as a white person denotes high social status, while fighting the ignorant peasants beats away the ogres. its a politics of fashion. but why is this? because virtue signalling is a form of social intelligence which affects high I.Q. individuals, with labour constituents and members generally having higher education over other groups. this difference between the workers and bourgeois intelligentsia is also commented upon by lenin as a necessary contradiction:
<We have said that there could not have been Social-Democratic consciousness among the workers. It would have to be brought to them from without. The history of all countries shows that the working class, exclusively by its own effort, is able to develop only trade union consciousness, i.e., the conviction that it is necessary to combine in unions, fight the employers, and strive to compel the government to pass necessary labour legislation, etc.[2] The theory of socialism, however, grew out of the philosophic, historical, and economic theories elaborated by educated representatives of the propertied classes, by intellectuals. By their social status the founders of modern scientific socialism, Marx and Engels, themselves belonged to the bourgeois intelligentsia.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/witbd/ii.htmso then, there is a conflict of interest between the proletariat and the communist party, even as marx understood it in the manifesto, with communists themselves only being a clique of internationalists. pver time, labour has become filled with more of the educated (PMC) , over traditional sects like trade unionists, and this has affected the political attitude.
>>2534690What's odd here is that Labour are doing their best to alienate high autism score, PMC, middle class, high status, etc etc voters instead of embracing them. They're destroying their own value as a status symbol by pandering to low status ideas and, worst of all, they're not even successful at winning those people because they're a gang of awkward dorks. It's like Waitrose becoming a discount supermarket, losing all their middle class customers, and still being avoided by price conscious shoppers because it's fucking Waitrose.
>>2534690You didnt read the post did you.
>>2534817Untrue, Elon Musk just topped half a trillion in wealth with his hard work, maybe stop relying on soda and chips ration tickets and get a job
>>2534826why would i get a job when i can get gibs? lol
>>2534843Iranian Shahists love going to other countries then berating immigrants its just what they do.
I'm not British so I'm curious why even British communists here talk so much about electoralism and not much else? Are there no non-electoral paths that communists have in the UK?
>>2534911There are no serious communist parties in the UK and our electoral politics are interesting misery-porn
Also a lot of our apparently electoral discussion is really sociological, just using party politics for framing.
>>2534911I wish there were, I wish we had a real Marxist party or revolutionary movement, but it's simply not here.
Most of our communist parties here, electoralist or not, are just totally ossified out of touch demsoc zionist boomers who just want to attend the odd march and also ban LGBT people from their orgs.
Or else they're self righteous Trots who are just basically a Corbynite student group that wants to publish newspapers and butcher Trotsky's actually theory.
I don't see there being any hope for this island, and until I can leave this hellhole I'm forced to vote for the least bad option.
>>2534982>im the only true marxistmany such cases
>>2534994If CPGB-ML are Marxists then everyone should strive to be a reactionary
>>2533357Pretty much everywhere outside of London these days, even Bristol is run down to fucking shit now.
Most UK cities have like 2-3 nice streets, then it's just albanian/pakistani money laundering and tax evasion fronts, Turkish barbers youths on electric bikes and scooters being obnoxious etc.
The issue is functionally the UK really is just 2 countries, The city state that is London, and everywhere else, and everywhere else got abandoned with no jobs or jobs that pay 10 quid an hour while requiring 6 years minimum experience and a degree and then flooded with mass thirdie migration as a final fuck you.
>>2534654For the Labour right it's much more pathological, they are Bourgiousie who view the Tories as Aristocratic incompetent nepobabies, while the Labour right are Capitalist meritocracy. This means the Labour right will always side with the Aristocrats largely to boot the left when push comes to shove, but the Labour right fucking hate the Tories because of the UK's bloodline class system where even if you are a billionare like Alan Sugar, you still won't be allowed in the old boy tory networks.
The Labour Right don't actually disagree with anything the Tories really do, it's all just a play between two elite power factions, nepobabies with elite names and "meritocracy" bougies.
>>2535158>even Bristol is run down to fucking shit now.Always has been. The posh bits are just fine though.
>>2535089CPGB-ML are a weird cultish group that embraces and personifies all of the worst memes and over-exaggerations about so-called "tankies".
They have cult like regulations on dress code, haircuts, diet, etc.
They subjected one member to a 3 hour long interrogation in a locked room just for saying he thought it's acceptable to be gay in Britain in 2025, and then expelled him when he wouldn't repent and condemned homosexuality.
They want to win over Reform voters with Duginite NazBol rhetoric and waving placards promoting Stalin and the DPRK which is just an objectively bizarre tactic in our current environment.
CPB are primarily elderly boomers, most of whom are really social democrats, who believe that electoralism works and have lost most of their youth wing after fully embracing TERF ideology and a pro-imperialist pro-Israel labour Zionist two state stance.
They are totally out of touch with the world as it is today. Britain's road to socialism is a total joke. Also there's a hilarious video of their youth group coddling up with British police during public marches.
RCP are mostly a student activist group, they're naive overactive Trotsky worshipping youths who believe the revolution is achieved purely by flogging newspapers and singing The Internationale in a rented out university lecture room, they also claim their positions can't be questioned because they're "scientific", and will very soon end up as nothing more than the radical wing of Your Party.
All I want is a normal fucking Marxist, Leftist, Communist party. No Stalin or Trotsky worship while also respecting the contributions they made, no reformism/electoralism, no Zionism, no exclusion of LGBT members.
>>2535219>All I want is a normal fucking Marxist, Leftist, Communist party. No Stalin or Trotsky worship while also respecting the contributions they made, no reformism/electoralism, no Zionism, no exclusion of LGBT members.These people (me) are just distributed in unions and socdem parties. Which is bad. Small parties have a bad reputation of being cultish for the average individual. Which is bad. But understandable seeing the history of communist parties and social dramas.
>>2535207>The fascists of the 2030s are gonna be guys who called themselves stalinists in their 20s.We can't escape the legacy of ᴉuᴉlossnW
>>2533357Probably most accurate and grim view of the UK I've seen so far.
Anyway if u want something to do about it, either leave, or join the military so you can become an officer and launch a coup, or sit on your hands until some small event sparks a doomed to fail 1848-esque uprising
>>2535236What are you on about
>>2535189Even most posh parts of the UK are like a single street, you turn a corner and you're back into Turkish barber slum land. I always love movies or instagrammers showing London as this beautiful city, and every location they show, you know if you walk just 50m and turn a corner, you can see piles of trash, roadmen stealing phones, albanian and middle eastern hustlers etc.
You also have the issue everything built post-war looks like fucking trash, you can see where bombing runs happened on old suburbs, because you will have beautiful old 19th/early 20th century housing, interspersed with 1 or 2 dogshit modern/60s-90s houses that don't fit in at all where the old houses got bombed, street near mine you can see the exact line where the bomber flew over and dropped it's load because where the streets interconnect, you can see in a diagonal direction across multiple streets, the same pattern of nice houses then 1 or 2 shit houses then nice houses etc.
>>253498298% of the UK left are just a LGBT cult who worship /tttt/ to an obnoxious level (I will always bring up that "more Social housing for trans bodies" poster lmao as well as being massively pro-rejoin the EU. I knew tonnes of fellow lefties in 2019 who refused to vote Corbyn because he didn't specify to rejoin the EU and the Greens are making Rejoin a core part of their platform now as well.
>>2535896You must understand the trans issue as signalling. Every lefty is pro-trans because it's a good way of identifying lefties, most others are anti-trans because it's a good way of identifying anti-lefties (even if they call themselves TRUE lefties). Being anti-trans flies more red flags than the USSR on the 9th of May:
Even if for argument's sake you pretend they're a total liability, it would just be a peacock's tailfeathers situation. He who cannot falsify his preferences on a marginal non issue certainty cannot endure democratic centralism.
(I must with tedious predictability being up the SNP again. Scottish nationalism circa 2015-20 was much stronger than the broad left and still wound up subverted. How can you predict which MPs, MSPs and commentators would ditch the cause to join arms with unionists - including Tories and the woman who bankrolled Better Together - to oppose Scottish autonomy? I'll give you a clue: it's SFRET backwards.)
>>2535978I'm against Trans bullshit because it's incoherent misogynistic pomo idiocy that is directly anti-materialist and rips away the rights of others on a super fucking decisive issue that normies at best tolerate.
Like honestly the left being "pro-Trans" an explicity hyper-individualistic, pomo, Neolib identity honestly is so nuts and damaging, that honestly it has to be a MI5/CIA plant. It was always lolberts who were the degenerate gender culties when I was growing up.
>He who cannot falsify his preferences on a marginal non issue certainty cannot endure democratic centralism. Erasing gender/biological sex and completely reorganizing biological sex for the feelings of schizo BPDs and autists isn't a "marginal issue".
>I'll give you a clue: it's SFRET backwards.Good. Trans had to actually finally get dragged to debate their points instead of running to mods or crying "TERF" at anyone who pointed out their incoherent predatory bullshit and got fucking owned into oblivion because Gender ideology is insane gobdlygook literally 90% shit out of scene teenagers from RP communities on Tumblr in the early 2010s then got pushed through academia as a mass purity test which quickly turned into "Yeah, biological women don't actually exist and don't deserve any protections from patriarchical norms or have any unique material circumstances that require them to have their own spaces".
Trans privileges movement lost to "TERFS" due to their own slippery sloping bullshit and inability to come up with even the most basics of a coherent theory. It's now finally being thrown into the dustbin where it belongs like Pro-Ana, DID and other social contagion "dysphoric" trends among autists, edgelords and BPDs.
If a Leftist is pro-Trans, all that says to me is that they are completely inconsistent on their theory and values and they worship bullshit empathy idpol over consistent, logical theory. I will always also point out the hypocrisy where the same people who worship /tttt/ bullshit, have no issue shitting on other presentations of dysphoria like pro-ana and DID or BIID because they are so fucking obviously insane, despite literally being the same fucking thing as Gender dysphoria (which isn't even required now for ??? reasons). Ana people and GD people have the exact same differences in brain activity from normies showing it's largely the same material dysphoria, just different presentations. Of course TRA's can't stand that because if they did, they would have to accept insane spoonies and Pro-Ana as legitimate identities part of the "LGBT" movement.
As I will always say about TRA's, "The theory is bad, and you should feel bad".
The purity test on if you are left or not should always be based around material economics and nothing else. 90% of "pro-Trans" types are Neolibs, not left wing at all. 100% of Communists and 0% of Libs support Nationalisation of all strategic assets and strategic economic sectors, with the eventual socialization of the entire economy. Hmmm what should be the purity test then?
>>2536017>Transness is bad! Why? It… It just is!A question for you anon, are you in any way organized IRL?
>>2536030I've explained numerous times why Gender idiocy is bad.
It completely redefines material reality around post-modernist individualist norms that are completely meaningless godblygook. It forces Neoliberal shittesting into the social space where the average person can't even trust their eyes or material reality and is forced to reinforce insane liberal norms and practices as an explicit gaslighting test (the major reason why Trans was pushed by the entire Liberal sphere btw, basically "how many lights do you see"), it completely erases the protections and rights that women so long fought for, it erases the unique experiences and biological reality of sex and the very real differences that exist between men and women, it forces sexual fetishization onto non consenting participants and children, the movement is extremely predatory targeting children, gay teens, femboys etc, the movement slippery slopes every other week because it's in reality largely just a Fetlife larp for 90% of participants, No consistency on gender dysphoria even required or not, no explanation why gender dysphoria is not a mental illness nor why things like DID, ANA, BIID, Diaracial etc aren't legitimate "They.. just aren't okay!", complete inability to compromise on anything, self-id basically being a free "sexual assault/pervert" pass, 58.9% sexual crime rate among TIMs and that is just the tip of the iceberg.
Trans is the ultimate Neolib subject, as Marxist Sociologist Ashley Frawley (old Zer0 Books figure along with Fisher, Lain etc) put's it best
>Transition signifies letting go of these old attachments. In this regard, transgenderism epitomizes a model of subjectivity prized by technocratic elites: malleable, untethered from tradition, and committed to an endless project of self-creation. Gender-identity literature emphasizes that “coming out” is not a one-time act but a lifelong process across ever-changing jobs, homes, and relationships, implying an ideal subject ever ready to adapt themselves to an ever-changing world. A fluid subject for a fluid world.>This is the ideal political subject for today’s postliberal managerialism: heteronomous and willing to doubt its own judgment and intuition. People need not transition to live up to its ideals. By accepting the assertion that I cannot know the gender of the person sitting in front of me, I am accepting that I must doubt the evidence of my own eyes and look to others for an official line on reality. Nor can tradition or common sense tell me how to understand and treat others: I must look now to new official guidelines for the correct language and rituals. And since these are always changing, I must be ever alert, ever malleable, ever willing to shift to new truths.>The embrace of gender identity, then, isn’t a cultural detour but the very logic of contemporary technocratic rule: distrustful of ordinary people, hostile to autonomy, obsessed with management. UNESCO’s work in Africa shows how global this project has become. When schools without plumbing receive gender-identity curricula, it becomes clear this is not about local need. It is about making new kinds of people suited to a new kind of world-building, which no longer happens in bricks and steel but inside people’s heads. >are you in any way organized IRL?I was part of the organized left for a good near solid 20 years of my life, involved in Unite to Respect and even Greens, more recently XR and Corbyns Labour. I'm only one degree away from being able to talk to Galloway whenever I want.
The reason I don't associate with the "Organized left" here anymore is largely for the same reasons said above. The UK and Western left is a lost cause. Though my reasoning for this is different. The only movement honestly worth dedicating my time to anymore is the UK Environmental movement because at least there very serious, policy, statist minded people still exist, the rest of the left is basically a fucking anarkiddie idpol/Trotskytard joke.
>>2536036Your 'understanding' of material reality is just positivist, reductionist dreck.
One thing which can be ascertained very obviously, in a tenable sense, however is the following: you are mentally ill. No sane person thinks like this.
>>2536037(but ofc, you're british so you're already subhuman, waste of time trying to reason with angloid retards)
>>2536038Moreover, everything you've said here could be said of 'race' in the wignat sense, but you'll never connect the dots. And you'll selectively appeal to expert consensus, etc. Just another retard nowdays, like 99% of the people on this site atp.
>>2536039Brittards really be like
OI BRUV IF I CAN SEE IT WIF ME EYES WHY'S IT THAT YOU'RE CLAIMIN' IT'S DIFFERENT, YA?
and think this is the apex of human rationality
fucking neck yourself
>>2536036>I've explained numerous timesYou didnt though, you repeat your opinions, but there is no analysis or arguments. The closest thing to one is
>average person can't even trust their eyes or material reality and is forced to reinforce insane liberal norms and practices as an explicit gaslighting testand it is complete nonsense, because lot of trans women just look like women. Like if you try to argue picrel are actually men, you are a deranged ideologue, you perceive them as women just as anyone with two eyes in their skull would, but you are still going to argue how "immaterial" their womanhood is because it clashes with your psychosexual pathologies.
>>2536017Your wall of obsessive drivel is precisely why it's good to be pro-trans: it excludes
you. Be honest, what could be more effective at allowing the bulk of the left to pass but stopping
you at the door? You don't even engage with the SNP point - that so-called Scottish Nationalist TERFs put TERFery above Scottish nationalism and will suicide bomb the Scottish nationalist movement for TERF reasons. You go off on a rant about trans (sic) instead. It's obvious to any reader that given the chance, between pro-Trans socialism and the status quo, you'd be the first to suicide bomb the Socialists. Fortunately, there's
one weird trick that can gatekeep
you from the start…
>>2536048
ANSWER THE QUESTION YOU FAT FUCK.
What would be more effective at filtering you?
>>2536049>>2536048Can you all please start another thread for this pls k ty
>>2536051
Anon, why did you bring up being fucked? And sluttyness? Like nobody in this thread even touched on anything related to fucking, so I have a question, dont have to answer it to me, I just want you to introspect a little (assuming you are still capable of that), why did your brain go there? You could have just made your post about aesthetics, that would be relevant response to post you are replying to, but you went out of your way towards fucking. Why?
>>2536050They'll be banned soon enough. I'm only asking for an answer because I know I won't get one. This particular poster doesn't actually engage with any points put to them, except as the cheapest excuse to rant about le transhumanists. If you asked them "is Labour being anti-trans causing Labour > Green defections" you will get a lot of raving about gender ideology, but no answer (not even a coherent TERFy "yes, and that's a good thing because they're libs", our resident's monomania is too severe for that.)
>>2536068
I am not diverting though, in fact I went out of my way to post a non-sexual picture of not particularly attractive trans women to avoid derailing the discussion into arguments about fuckability. But you still did.
It is the firm duty of every British leftist to vote Labour against the TRA captured Reform - Green - Plaid - SNP axis.
Uphold Starmer-Cockshott-Reeves thought!
>>2536079
Thats nice uygha. Source.
>>2536075
>This is why Gender ideology crashed in the UK, Feminists and Marxists here had a backbone and had the Trans movement dragged before the courts to actually state their case and they couldn't. This showed the Gender cult for what it truly is, a cult.
You have some vivid dreams bud
>>2536089Don't you know that Westminster, 55 Tufton street, and the supreme court are the true vanguard of Marxism-Feminism?
>>2536107
I fail to find it. Could you point me to specific statistic you are quoting?
>>2536107
>They also explain the main difference is that in the US, Feminism is largely just tied to the LGBT movement as a general movement against Reactionary Evangelicals, where in the UK Feminism is genuinely a womans movement based in decades of theory and academic work. This is why UK Feminism and the Left here, were so able to effectively smash Pomo Neolib identarianism.
TERFeminism is neolib identarianism. You literally cannot criticise them without being called a rapist because you have "penile energy".
Wokies just can't accept that the EHRC (which found Labour institutionally antisemitic) and the judicial system (which recently found soldier F not guilty) are normal impartial institutions which rule according to the facts as they stand, not woke orthodoxy and certainly not according to the whims of the ruling class (and when you think about it, Tumblr is the real ruling class anyway, eh?)
>>2536131There is plenty such a thing as British Justice :)
Why are terfs Zios? Dont they realise that Palestine is a based Biological Sex society while Israel promotes castration of boys and girls??
Britain is Europe’s Taiwan, remove its UN seat
>>2536134They plan on doing King David Hotel to your local school’s gay straight alliance club
Transphobic pro-ana troll is derailing and shitting up the thread again.
Really love getting told my existence is misogynistic and that I'm in a cult and that I must be hideously ugly and therefore less deserving of human rights. All because I had gender dysphoria from my childhood and transitioned despite horrendous violence and bullying in order to make life somewhat bearable. How very left wing of you.
Also claiming the country is overwhelmingly pro-trans LMAO when we've had our rights away to use any public spaces or even go for a piss stripped from us so that we're basically second class citizens expected to be grovelling for the right to be permitted in social life.
Both labour and tories both treat as us less than human, claim we aren't welcome in British society with their words and policies, joke about our very existence.
Not to mention every day all the right wing rags have more and more headlines about how our existence is a problem in need of a solution, and gives space to multimillionaire zionists ever week to cry about how they're cancelled for calling for violence against us.
And like another anon said, isn't it curious how TERFs hold no over "feminist" positions but hard right, zionist and conservative views on everything?
I'm tired of my existence being a fucking debate. Just leave us alone you freaks.
>>2536145Also literally all their arguments are the same against gay people from the 70s
>you wouldn’t want a PERVERT in the WASHROOM>how am I supposed to explain YOU to my KID >>2536150It is the same bigoted moral panic against minorities being in public as before, exactly. These people can't accept us as fellow people and turn everything into an idpol culture war.
>>2536145>freaksnow who's the bully?
>>2536194
Posting without your flag I see.
You're proposing an absurd hypothetical that seeks to portray trans people as child predators.
In reality your hypothetical doesn't happen. Trans people aren't waving their genitalia in children's faces.
Overwhelmingly, changing spaces are single stalls. And I can't imagine a trans person not using a single person stall out of fear for their own safety in any case.
I know I wouldn't feel safe from physical violence in our society if I changed in a shared space as a trans person.
And for what it's worth most children already know what genitals look like and have seen them, and don't care because to normal people (but apparently not transphobes) the context of getting changed isn't a sexualised situation.
Most young boys when they're toddlers have had to use the women's loos or changing room when out with their mums and vice versa for young girls and fathers.
To sexualise such situations is frankly vomit inducing and shows the paedophilic tendancies of transphobes. It's disgusting.
Most kids have seen naked people on beaches, or saunas, etc where nudity is normalised in such settings too. It's not a problem when the situation isn't sexual in nature.
The faux-outrage about our bodies in entirety non-sexual contexts is an American evangelical export to the world.
These same people wanted the statues of Michelangelo censored for their nudity and to prohibit children from seeing such art.
This is where TERFism is also leading in stealth on behalf of the evangelical far right.
TERF groups links to American far right lobbies are well know and a threat to European social values and norms. It isn't going to end well if it carries on.
>>2536239
Like I said, that's an absurd hypothetical that doesn't happen. Repeating it doesn't address my points.
Most trans people are too scared of being victims of violence to go to any such place where you need to get changed, let alone not use a private stall.
That's if we're even legally allowed to use gyms or swimming facilities facilities for either sex under current law which isn't clear. Personally I know dozens of trans people and none have gone swimming post transition out of fear of harassment, abuse and violence from cis transphobes.
We are not the problem you have invented as a fiction in your head.
>>2536145>>2536242>>2536239etc.
our resident anti-trans schizo has started samefagging because they know nobody here wants to interact with them and they can't write their reply screeds otherwise.
Regardless of your position on the trans question anti-trans people are the most ghoulish people imaginable. You'd have news of some transwoman being killed and raped and these shitters would be in the comment section being AKSHUALLY ITS A HE
Completely unhinged people, it was like online atheists a decade ago going to fb pages Christians who are suffering from fatal disease and saying that akshually soyence disproved jeej sus, just the smuggest 'trust the science' edgelord assholes out there
I don’t know how anyone lives with the cognitive dissonance of doing “LGB drop the T”, if trans people are inherently a threat in changing rooms and bathrooms same sex attracted people are far worse, they have access to the naked bodies they covet and lust over in sex segregated spaces. Why shouldn’t they be excluded?
>>2536254
Why should gays and lesbians be in the same intimate spaces as straight men and women? Some lesbian is gonna diddle a girl in there
>>2536252I love the fact that apparently as a straight trans women I am a bigger risk to women than a lesbian, or the way some TERFs go on, you'd expect also a bigger risk that cis men.
If course, lesbians don't pose a risk to other women either. It's all bullshit.
And if in response to this they try moving the goalposts to claim it's not about risk, but about not wanting to see AMAB people then they should drop the rhetoric accusing LGBT people of being likely sex predators.
>>2536263The TERF is now using homophobic slurs. The mask drops.
Also there's more than one of us.
Come on woke liberals if you're so smart answer the poopoopeepee question
>>2536264<our least favorite retard learned to use VPN'soh no. also kill yourself.
The Staniland question is: "But what if a poor innocent CHILD went into a public bathroom and saw an evil grotesque monstrous pervert TRANSGENDER and then the evil TRANS freak waved their genitalia in the child's face out of sadistic paedophilic pleasure???"
We can only imagine if this were thirty years ago, the Staniland question would replace trans with homosexual and would be just as nonsensical and outlandish.
>>2536274You've called me a faggot, a retard, and told me to kill myself.
Also accused me of using a proxy because there's more than one person here who doesn't hate trans people.
Very rational response to your transphobic arguments being responded to.
>>2536277The pretentiousness of talking about such an insane question like it's a real, recognised thing like the West Lothian question would be funny if it wasn't embarrassing.
Sir, SIR, what's your answer to the Skibidi Sigma Question? Why are you being silent on the Kolvravalz Theory? Do you have a response to the Gleepus Glorpus Hypothesis? Sir, SIR where are you going SIR?
SIR
SIR
ARE YOU ABLE TO PROVE OR DISPROVE THE JAKOBSKY PARADOX?
>>2536328this is it was categorized as such.
are you actually retarded, or?
>>2536329another useless sageposter
SIR, BUT WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THE FERMI PARADOX?
neema parvini fails to distinguish between high social intelligence (connotative semiotics) and low social intelligence (denotative semiotics) here, adding to his humiliation. zizek offers a properly critical summary of the dilemma here, between content and context:
https://youtu.be/BdUdOvqF_OIthe difference between facts as such and their application also have distinction between what we may call "misinformation" (non-factual content) and "malinformation" (an incomplete context). to exist in the realm of fact alone thus is to be generally low autism score, while to be high autism score is to put facts in their right place. the nebulous term "truth" here then enters; can something be "correct" while simultaneously being "untrue"? zizek says for example that what nazis say about jews may be factually correct, though antisemitism as a worldview is inherently false. this seems incredibly variable however, since zizek is surely not without his own framing, which thus falls into its own preconception. what is at least true then is that facts may be agreed upon, but their interpretation is necessary for facts to find a place in a higher concept. facts are not barred from stupidity, but context may be.
>>2536261>as a straight trans womenThat's something you don't see everyday (Probably more common than i think though), did know a straight trans woman, well, she was questioning that aspect of hers last we met, nice girl though, hope she's doing ok
But yeah, it's funny (Well, it would be if it didnt run a potential risk to your life) that TERFs are going all in on this nonsense that trans women are inherently a threat when they need to go for a piss, and yet they'd happily throw cis women under the bus because they're not feminine looking enough for them
BBC presenters already got their poppies on, 2 weeks before remembrance day.
It gets earlier and more performative every year. Waiting for them to put a poppy on the Cookie monster or Kermit again.
>>2536518Just wear the poppie all year round, who gives a shit?
>>2536531wear it all year around, except for rememberance
>>2536518Should I get a white poppy? Is it worth the arguments at work?
>>2536583This uygha eatin beans
Imagine posting this tho lol
>>2536583so like was the can open already lmao
>>2536582white poppies are pretty standard in ireland.
i'd wear one here in the uk if i felt safe doing so, but im pretty sure i'd get harassed by strangers for it.
>>2536583THEY THREW BEANS AT HIM
>>2536583lol next time yeet the can at the cunts head.
>>2536531nah, just leave it on your winter coat. winter coat comes out, poppy is already on, another year without being sent to the camps.
>>2536172KPDmaxxing, we need to organise the lumpen
>>2536969Obvious fake audio
>>2536969Omg leftism destroyed.
>>2537080
You will notice the title of the thread is 'leftybritpol' not 'britpol but not on /pol/ for some reason', this is why you're getting banned/removed, for being obnoxious, not for being a super special genius boy. If we wanted to talk to some racist poltard who won't even admit to being a fascist we would go to pol.
>>2537091
Hey dipshit, anti idpol doesn't mean anti LGBT. It literally never meant that from the moment this board was founded. You are just pushing divisive conservative idpol. We don't agree with persecuting straight white males or black transbians, it's not that complicated.
'gender critical' is a load of bullshit that is only used to attack trans people, like yeah, gender is socially constructed, obviously, but that doesn't mean it doesn't actually exist IN OUR CURRENT SOCIETY. In our current society it's actually incredibly important, and I don't see 'gender critical' people going around burning down department stores because they have 'menswear' and 'womens' sections, or doing literally anything to tackle cis identity, it's only trans people that get the ire.
>>2537097
Hey uyghur, yesterday you quoted some trans crime statistic, but still have not provided the source for it. Where is it? I mean you quoted it to a decimal number, I doubt you carry that in your brain, you were clearly reading it from somewhere. Please post from where.
>>2537097
>I've been on Leftypol since basically day one
not the brag you think it is lol
>>2536969palestine is a wedge issue that artificially keeps the mandem and uni students aligned, before the islamic theocracy gains precedence.
>>2536969The 'toss comic is accurate tbh, the prole everywhere is religious and socially conservative especially now since capitalism has dissolved all means of organizing communities except for religious ones. We need to have economic prosperity first so people can be less fundamentalist
>>2537234>proleyou mean lumpenprole?
the british prole today is the blue-haired service worker with a useless humanities degree. they need solidarity.
>>2537237>People who graduated college (a historically bourgeois institution) is more prole than roadmen Come on man. And its not just with Mohametans. Who do you think lynch Muslims over beef cutting in India? It's all proles working for the BJP. Same thing in America, people keep talking about how bourgs J6 is but they often forgets how widespread anti immigrant chauvinism is even among black people
When a prole feels international solidarity its not because he has lofty and abstract egalitarian concepts like college students (which is a very bourg revolutionary, Ben Franklin ahh mindset) its because he can project his working condition to other working peoples from outside his group. For some reason or another this has collapsed in the 21st century, and a trucker in Turkey does not feel sympathy for a trucker in India and vice versa, both cannot even imagine such a thing
>>2537244>collegeanother yank infiltrator i suppose
>roadmenthese fellas are on the dole, not behind any tills
>>2537090i used to play so many old games in dosbox and etc i'm severely surprised i never heard of this. interesting stuff though.
>>2537219true, unless you're doing it ironically because you love woke
>>2537234it's not proles, it's low openness personalities. capitalism has already fixed this problem for socialists (accidentally) by pushing everyone into environments that encourage high-openness (the internet generally has this effect, as does the massive expansion of uni enrollment)
>>2537244use your head for once: higher education enrollment has grown so massively that more than half of young people now go into further education, are you really going to say that 50% of the workforce under 30 are bourgeois? deal with material reality, not vibes. (wait, annoying women are proles too? how uncool. nah, that can't be right, the
real proletarians must be lumpen and landlords… maybe larry the landlord will join me on the picket line)
>>2537295
you're thinking too autistically again: lumpen aren't allies, but the people most against lumpen are enemies (and also so low status that they think lumpen are actually being put above them, like an attractive woman getting insecure about Dove promoting 'health at any size' to progwash their brand) so it's good to act like they are. (not that anyone is consciously deceptive, but one should think nice things about the horrible people one never has to meet. it's not good to be nasty.)
if you live somewhere that lumpen are a serious problem and you haven't left (you certainly talk as though you have!) you're showing very poor judgement. if you leave somewhere that lumpen are a serious problem and you still worry about them, you're showing very poor judgement.
showing off that one has good judgement is very important, particularly in a world dominated by communications media. nobody wants to read the ramblings of those with poor judgement - unless it's so very, very poor that one cannot look away.
>>2537315
>n-n-no …actually you're from reddit!!
At least get better material. You are boring.
>>2537315
you've been taken from your lumpen environment, but you still read like a lumpen.
the working class do not on the whole respond well to anti-lumpen sentiment because they are not surrounded by lumpen. they are a petit-bourgeois and retiree obsession. it follows that if you say good things about lumpen, you do not particularly alienate the working class - let's say you alienate 15-20% of them - but you alienate a much higher proportion of the bourgeoisie and retirees. (and even lumpens themselves, since they don't like how weak and gay you sound.)
if pretending i would hug my distant enemy drives away my nearer, more powerful enemy, it is overwhelmingly desirable to pretend.
>>2537325
If Cuba and Vietnam is fine with sex minorities there’s literally no reason for a westoid imperial core country to reject them out of concerns for productive forces
>>2537330
we are less willing to discuss and debate tedious politics, we were having a fun discussion about social status and (to varying degrees) autism score before you came in and shat it up.
terfs are not the most evil thing ever, they are the most tedious thing ever. look up any 'gender critical' protest and you'll find more grey hair than at a barbershop for huskies. nobody wants to be henpecked by old major>blair switchers pretending to be lawyers.
if you'd like to contribute to the discussion please post a top-down photo of your skull so we can measure and catalogue it. based on your posting style, our top phrenologists would have a field day diagnosing your malady.
>>2537333>these two imperialist neocolonies had Westoid idpol forced on them, this means communism is all about muh epic lgbtbbqabc cult!Still waiting for a real answer to the Staniland Question by the way ;)
>>2537350
i do not care what happens in London and I've never been stabbed (or even called a wanker) engaging in poverty tourism at the local tower flats, so i cannot accept the idea there's some big collapse in social order. i don't really believe the security tag thing has anything to do with theft (based on seeing just as many tags in bucolic rural places as in urban stores), it hits me as being mostly a corporate meme: a few stores did it and everyone joined in to do their part against shrinkage, as though there are roving gangs prepared to pilfer the Tesco Lerwick Superstore.
people are mad at starmer because he's a wanker who has failed at every single thing it is possible to fail at. he could make london crime free and i would still rather lose fingers than vote for him (there's a certain chic to typing like a yakuza who doesn't pay his debts, but voting Labour? irredeemably uncool)
do you think he lost Caerphilly to Plaid Cymru because there were roving bands of asylum seekers looting the place? do you think he'd have kept it if they'd just done more advertising for keepwalestidy.cymru ?
>>2537356They are AES and dedicated Marxist Leninists and no amount of seething will change them
>>2537366actually, the only actually-existing form of AES is the Equality Act 2010 as enforced by the British Supreme Court.
>>2537366Wrong on both accounts. What’s your answer to the Staniland Question?
>>2537379Nobody sees each other’s genitals in changing rooms
>>2537379What's your answer to the cambridge capital controversy
>>2537371If Britain is in any way socialist I am a proud reactionary
>>2537380Just because you don’t see it happening doesn’t mean it isn’t. My wife got flashed by a trccn on no less than two occasions in a women’s locker room and had to deal with the sound of one loudly masturbating in the next stall to the sound of her peeing. Both of these and more are regular occurrences where woke dominates and they have a particularly insidious habit of targeting little girls for their sick fantasies
>>2537394can confirm this anon's story, his wife told me too while i was fucking her
>>2537394Do you masturbate while writing this insane lurid fantasy? People shit on gooners for being degenerates or whatever but the true moment for people to unchain their psychosexuality is when they make a manifesto
>>2537397>>2537402Notice how quickly the western left abandons its “be kind” and “uwu wholesome chungus” facade the moment when women’s actual lived experiences with sexual assault conflict with their ideology: immediately out pours the misogyny, the victim blaming, and the “jokes” as though a woman being accosted in a women’s space by a crossdressing pervert is hilarious
>>2537404i have an actual lived experience of you being boring
Companies including British Airways have stopped sponsoring Louis Theroux's podcast because he dared to do an interview with Bob Vylan.
Funny how this is what's getting him cancelled, when he could previously interview Neo-Nazis, the Westboro cult, Ultra-Zionists, West Bank settlers, Jimmy Saville, imprisoned child rapists, heroin addicts, and make a entire movie on Scientology without getting cancelled.
>>2537422The flag of Palestine is that of the proletariat, it’s the only explanation
The reactionaries pretending to be communists arrived to leftybritpol. Sad. People used to be honest with themselves here.
Why are they incapable of of inventing believable lies? They always come up with the most over the top shit.
Yeah, every female bathroom has a trans person masturbating in the cubical and everyone is disgusted but also does nothing.
This is on par with someone saying they saw a Muslim on the streets the other day and he was waving an ISIS flag and had dirty bombs strapped to him, in terms of over the top and insultingly stupid it is.
>>2537469AGPs freely admit to this shit in their controlled subreddits on a regular basis. If you don’t believe me search the term “gender euphoria”, their euphemism for masturbation, and how often it comes up in public especially when around biological women and girls. Yet if you report it, you’re the one who gets arrested for intolerance as Graham Lineham and others who’ve dared to speak out against the trans lobby can attest to
>>2537479Why are you going to their controlled subreddits? Is there something you aren’t telling us?
>>2537479This is total schizo brainwashed bs
>>2537479>arrested for intolerance as Graham Lineham and othersMeanwhile in reality, he was arrested for posting a tweet saying it's acceptable to punch trans people in their genitals, and the police dropped the case shortly after.
Imagine if he'd said to punch lesbians, to punch black people in the genitals, grab Muslims by the beard, drag Jews by the curls on the side of their head.
But because he said it about trans people all the established media took his side and portrayed him as a poor victim for being arrested for it.
Trans people poisoned our water supply, burned our crops and delivered a plague onto our houses, and if you say anything bad about it they put a hook through your lips and haul you way up high into the air on a line, holding you there struggling for breath until you're forced to drop on the deck and flop like a fish for their perverted pleasure.
>>2538455
I was expecting something more interesting than a normie woman acting like a normie woman when you linked that Twitter video. The fact that the innocence of children is a social construct and that this construct can also be used to harm then shouldn't really make anyone with some basic knowledge of history balk like that. That honestly discredits the whole rest of your comment, it's all based on being so uncritical of reality that you end up genuinely believing that the ghosts (to get into the current theme of the site) are real.
>>2538455
Once again I am requesting you post source for that trans crime statistic you talked about couple days ago.
>>2538466>>2538467even if you can't resist replying, don't (you) them. make schizos work for their attention.
>>2538495
The trans stats anon, where did you get them.
>>2538465Lol. Is this original?
>>2537394imagine still posting on leftypol after getting married
>>2538551it's not that things haven't gone to shit, it's that our social collapse is perfectly orderly. less a wave of migrant crime, more a wave of NHS waiting lists and supermarkets doubling their prices and then having the gall to stick "new, lower price!" stickers on the shelves.
a chart showing the longest wage stagnation since the napoleonic wars or a comparison of UK income per head to US income per head (the gap used to be on the order of a few thousand pounds, now it's tens of thousands) is both realer and scarier than the idea of some hoodlum on the tube.
>>2538555yes
Okay so it seems leftist discussion is banned here now, instead we have rightoid trolls spamming transphobic slop to derail discussion every day. Amazing.
>>2538596so you are positing a fallacy, that you can only care about some things and not other things?
>>2538658no and it is difficult to imagine how you could imagine such a thing.
i am saying that while i care about many things, crime is not one of them. it is uninteresting.
if you want to push for an interesting angle, i see it as a question of taste: just as i'd judge someone for being obsessed with marvel movies, so i judge someone for being obsessed with crime. go watch Ernst Thälmann - Sohn seiner Klasse, go get really worked up that we don't build enough railways or operate them correctly. stop being boring and ugly.
>>2538674
why are trans people seen as a bridge to "abolishing" gender, when they are precisely the people who over-identify with their acquired gender?
>>2538677but again, you are posing these ultimatums to suggest that its an either/or. you either care about this or that… and just because you dont care doesnt mean nobody should care, surely?
>>2538683in taste terms, yes, nobody should care. to care about crime is ugly and shows bad taste. to care about transport is autistic, but with a certain beauty to it.
90% of the people who care about crime aren't actually impacted by it and about half the remaining 10% get no sympathy because they're doing something cringe like living in London. concern about it is therefore a very good way of identifying uninteresting people with unexciting fantasies of the state beating up lumpen.
imagine two people fantasize about making London into Singapore (allowing, implicitly, both issues to be touched on), but one
focuses on the use of the cane in the justice system, while the other focuses on the railway system. Which one do you think is going to be a repugnant ogre with deep-seated psychosexual issues?)
p.s. there are biological limitations on one's attention and chronological limitations on the number of hours in a day. every decision to allocate your attention one way is a decision not to allocate it in another (which, when i put it like that is a very strong case for closing the tab…)
>>2537501If those men are violating women’s spaces then women should be allowed to defend themselves. For this unspeakably bigoted take Graham has been dragged before a court
>>2538707this argument doesn't hold for defending your garden, let alone a supermarket bathroom
>>2538700there's apathy and there's denial.
apathy can lead to denial, which itself loses currency.
when you say "there is no disorder" you fall into denial, and therefore you fall into irrelevance, even moreso than the terminally unfashionable, since they are at least insistent upon a point of common recognition.
you appear to be mistaking the implicit for the absent, which is my concern, and so it proves to be an elite incompetence, like rishi sunak not knowing how to use a debit card, or ed miliband awkwardly eating a butty. elitism must entail popularity, and so if you are not publicly recognised as better, you forfeit your right.
2nd day in a row this person has spammed the thread telling me to kill myself for being trans, spamming the thread with slurs, derailing discussions, advocating for violence against LGBT people.
Basically doing anything to focus the thread on the ID pol obsession, preventing anyone from discussing actual British events or debating theory or whatever.
I keep reporting it but nothing happens.
At least our resident China flag pro-ana TERF poster was largely amicable, if repetitive, in her disagreements and didn't resort to constant slurs, calls for violence and demands of suicide.
Simply going to stop using the general until it's sorted out, enjoy your fashy gay hate echo chamber you've created for yourself you /pol/ freak.
>>2538730Read this trccn nitter.poast.org/sinister_sophia and learn. You are a class enemy of most leftypol users, assuming they are men and not trccns. Now kill yourself
Body modification changes your class and class interests because…it just does okay?
>>2538765
>Class enemies
The buzzwords are immaculate
>>2538785
>in monogamous marriage
engels is wrong here. polygamy is clearly the patriarchal format, with monogamy being egalitarian, with even a marginal oppression against the man (such as zeus proclaims his oppression by hera in the iliad).
>>2538800Zeus was a sex and drama addict
>>2538810Or you can just have sex without property or attachments involved
>>2538816
They do, by becoming women through HRT
>>2538815monogamy entails a legal contract
>>2538818its an oppression of men's patriarchal ambitions by forcing them to be loyal.
>>2538827You can choose as a man to not be monogamous, you can reject that type of relationship entirely and there’s nothing anyone can do to force you into it.
>>2538830i am talking about marriage
>>253883
Marriage is not forced on anyone in the 21st century imperial core bro, your parents are not gonna disown you or arrange a marriage
>still talking about transgender people
worst thread on the site.
>>2538856It just never ends, why do the transhumanists even reply to this guy just let him ramble
lol lmao your party is letting adnan hussein vet who gets to run for them in the 2026 local / scottish/welsh elections
Zarah is railing against landlordism while at least 50% of the Your Party MPs are landlords.
Zarah claims we should have no relations with Israel and leave NATO, while Corbyn won't say he's against Zionism.
The party secretary and man responsible for selecting candidates is Adnan Hussain, a landlord and vocal transphobe who also supports legalising incest of religious grounds.
These people have all mocked Reform for being registered as a company, yet Your Party LTD. is also registered as a company with Adnan 2nd man to Corbyn in the leadership structure.
It's a total joke.
Transphobes have gotten everything they could ever of dreamt of, short of making transition illegal, from our governments in the past 5 years.
Yet rather than celebrating they're more obsessed and embittered than ever, use slurs more freely than ever, feel emboldened to make calls for violence, as this thread well shows.
Really makes you wonder how their minds operate.
what is polanski's greens actual positions? I just see them rising in polls
>>2539057zarah thought she could control the boys club
>>2539104Zack's personal policies are:
1% wealth tax on anyone with over £10 million, 2% wealth tax on anyone with over £1 billion
Bring energy, water, and public transport into public ownership
Legalise all drugs, but also have services for those who take hard drugs to help them recover
Outlaw landlordism, massive council house building projects, end Green NIMBYism
Full support for LGBT rights and self ID similar to the Rep. Of Ireland
Recognition of Israel as an apartheid state and support for BDS, place sanctions on the Israeli state, but ultimately support a 2 state solution
Anti-Nuclear and wants to transition to using only green renewable energy
Ban on hunting, factory farming, blood sports, badger culling, fox hunting, ban on the routine use of antibiotics for farm animals
Vote on transitioning to a Republic, via public referendum, if and when there is sizable support for it
Leave NATO if and when the situation between Ukraine and Russia is resolved
It's not perfect but it's also not awful.
>>2539132>legalise all drugswhy…?
>>2539147Imagine nipping to your local Asda to get a key.
A whole aisle for crack, smack, meth. Corr, get it…
>>2539132fuckkk anti nuclear?? that and the drug thing are the only things here i dislike
>>2539154all international green parties are anti-nuclear
really makes you think, eh?
>>2539132You've left out their aim to rejoin the EU
>>2539179Stonetoss is a Nazi
>>2539235he's worse than a nazi, he's unfunny
wormwood, now that's the thinking man's nazi.
>>2539132Its Social Democracy. Better than Neoliberalism sure but we need to build actual socialist policy.
>>2539077Context; anti-fascist socialist farmer articulates how Blue Labour are Nietzschean Fascists.
>>2538872The book make me fascinated in archaeology.
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