/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2542288

Leftists used to use amphetamines heavily in the 1960s, it was largely what fueled the hippie movement, but over time it destroyed the hippe's minds and left them in permanent psychosis so they found Jesus or became scientologists or whatever.

>>2541998
>First point doesn't understand what private property means
No, I'm pretty sure you don't know what private property means, and what the actual implications of communist organization are. I do mean indeed to abolish all kinds of ownership. The Communists seek the abolition of private property as such.

What, however, are the implications of the abolition of every and all kinds of ownership? That one owns nothing, that 'ownership' in fact as a word becomes purely colloquial and in reference to an individual's particular USE of an object for whatever period of time, whether it is until this individual is dead or otherwise.

The Communists destroy any and all kinds of ownership, for the Communists this notion becomes redundant, for what does humanity own vis a vis to? Nature? God? Wherein not only private property but the private individual as such ceases to exist, what can it MEAN to "own" if not only TO USE? Without this juxtaposition to the other, ownership ceases to mean anything.

One no longer "owns" even their own clothing - instead, they wear them, or even the paper they use to wipe their ass - instead, they use it to wipe. Objects cease to be meaningful outside of their utility. Only man endures as meaningful in and of himself.

It is not that all individuals like a pious community of monks forsake ownership in the vein of humbling themselves to god. It is that their ownership is in a sense a given, therefore becomes redundant, because no longer do any men own vis a vis other men, at the same time those objects otherwise owned become testament to the endurance and strength of the new order, they become finally mere semblances, vanishing apparitions of man's wider conquest of all nature and his expansion to all corners of space, i.e. they are recognized as disposable and useful only in the context of a now infinite conquest of nature, of an infinite revolutionizing of the means of production that never ends.

To possess anxiety over the idea that in this hypothetical context an other may steal, may therefore deprive you of your use of an object… Is to betray that one has failed to grasp the most basic and elementary understanding of the essence of Communism.

That is, it is this anxiety itself (over the other) which is the root cause of actual theft in the first place. If you wish to insist on that anxiety, do yourself a favor and admit that you insist that Communism is impossible, forget about such silly questions (of ownership in a future society) and enjoy your life, for you have already admitted that you insist such a future society cannot exist in the first place.

>>2541998
>Second point is not a thing. There are biological differences between men and women.
Never said otherwise. But these essential biological differences are reflected onto to be essential social differences, which is retarded. That's my point. We are proletarians and therefore socially equal members of society despite our essential differences. That's the point. It isn't like that today.

>>2541998
>Third point is dumb and again comes off like a rightoid strawman.
I won't argue about my takes on the housing question because none of you are ready for these trvkes.

instead of people being forced to use their real name on the internet they should have their total net worth displayed next to their usernames

>>2542293
I remember someone arguing that to Marx any alienated property is private property, including state owned property. So in that case public/private which is how most people frame it nowadays is a red herring.

>>2541430
prometheus has luciferian characteristics if you think about it

>>2541202
>I also advocate for communal baths and toilets, though that may be too radical for some here.
I keep having a recurrent nightmare about being trapped in a giant communal bath, thank you for reminding me

>>2542171
>The Left created an impression it doesn’t give a fuck about anyone but marginalized groups
literally only nazis get that impression, and i'm not sure if they even fully subscribe to it, or if it's just some clumsy sleight of hand to justify mass murder abroad.

>>2542381
I mean there are actual stats (inb4 "The democrats aren't the left and no one considers them left or representative of it") that shows people see the dems as "caring about marginalized groups" but not caring about working people, but again this goes into my second point of doing anything except acknowledging this impression is real and is a problem to be fixed.

That there has never been a socialist/lower stage of communism state because they have always been betrayed before they could achieve it. That Leninism and its derivatives, being authoritarian, are very effective at transforming a semi-feudal country in a capitalist one, but will never be able to transform a capitalist country into a socialist/lower stage of communism one, because they are held back by the very ideological components that allowed their revolutions to succeed and their regimes to remain stable: vanguardism, "democratic" centralism, top-down control of the economy, and nationalism.

>>2542387
>that shows people see the dems as "caring about marginalized groups" but not caring about working people
well this is a characterization that pretty much defines the right wing position, and is immensely popular with xitter nazis, seems like it's pretty popular with you too, you're always so close to literally spouting white supremacist talking points, why would that be?

Our whole society's conception of health is completely fucked, heavily influenced by ableism and classism and capitalism and fascist eugenics bullshit. Health is treated as a matter of personal responsibility, illnesses and disabilities are treated as moral failings or lack of discipline, natural human traits and feelings are pathologized, human bodies are thought of like manufactured products that must be improved and optimized for maximum efficiency, weeding out the weak or sickly or strange-looking ones, building a generation of strong able-bodied conveniently interchangeable workers all the same shape and size. Bourgeoisie would-be leftists remain utterly ignorant of the systemic poverty that leads to higher rates of obesity, drug addiction, alcoholism, tobacco use, etc. and continue to engage in body shaming and perpetuating outmoded stereotypes about fat people being lazy and entitled and rich which the reality is the direct opposite.

>>2542000
>hitlerism
Unserious and Instantly dismissed

>>2542432
Trvke

>>2541194
<muh immigrants
where and why do you think 'bring millions of immigrants from very radical different cultures' is happening. the way you say this is very reactionary-coded, this is mainly a concern fascists bring up with 'white replacement' mythology completely divorced from factual analysis.

<muh genes
'i was born gay' is an outdated liberal take. you can choose to be gay, or trans, and thats ok too. we are so far from understanding the intricacies of genetics, let alone consciousness, that to assume literally anything that broad about genetics is absurd. even very specific genes affect people's phenotypes, let alone psychological behavior, in significantly different ways. again, this is another reactionary-coded talking point, one step towards racist eugenics. typical fascist reasoning goes something like: 'different genes cause different behaviors' => 'different races are prone to different behaviors' => 'different races have different crime rates due to genetics' => 'some races are superior to others' => 'we must strictly control and regulate the inferior races for their own good' => 'we must exterminate the inferior races for our own races safety'. regardless of your intent, this is the obvious interpretation of your statements and why one might think you are a 'eugenicist'.

<muh desert religion
evangelicals and fundamentalists of any particular religion will be reactionary and vile, and less evangelical and less fundamentalist interpretations exist for every single major religion, many of these non-fundamentalist and non-evangelical interpretations being perfectly compatible with life under socialism or communism. the main issue is preventing religious organizations from having tax-exempt status, or any significant ability to influence politics. if people want to make non-dogmatic metaphysical speculations, let them.

ok so here's some of my own controversial takes.

>consciousness is not reducible to physics, and most leftists have a crude understanding of what 'Idealism' means, equating it merely to solipsism.

many kinds of empiricist idealism are fully compatible with communist modes of organization and governance, and this insistence on vulgar physicalism will only drive away people that prefer to think of life as more meaningful than random atoms bumping into each other. I find Lenin's definition of 'materialism' in 'empirio-criticism', where the only defining quality of matter is that it 'exists outside our own minds', to be more useful than the pop-science misanthropic redditor attitude most leftists seem to have.

>most leftist spaces have reactionary attitudes when it comes to sex and gender.

'anyone who has trouble having a fulfilling romantic life is a misogynist incel' is a take i see too commonly among so called feminists. as a nonbinary neurodivergent person that has been studying feminist history and theory since before i could masturbate, and whose social issues are caused by mental health problems, this is a hurtful idea to see in leftist communities. Women, even leftist feminist women, often unintentionally reinforce toxic attitudes about men being conquering raping savages, mocking those who fail at this standard, it often seems that the only way to be a feminist ally as a masculine-coded person to some leftists is to transition, be gay, or be some caricature of a right-wing 'chad' meme but its leftist somehow because you are attractive. I worry we are losing a sizeable contingent of neurodivergent males and AMAB people to this particular trend of social media tribalism.

>>2541590
>splitting over petty bullshit
it's not petty bullshit and you'd know that if you read theory. There's a gap between communists and anarchists and people trying to tell you they are both or 'anarchocommunist' are as retarded as people thinking that if you mix water and oil fast and long enough, you get woil or oter.

>>2542563
> I find Lenin's definition of 'materialism' in 'empirio-criticism', where the only defining quality of matter is that it 'exists outside our own minds', to be more useful than the pop-science misanthropic redditor attitude most leftists seem to have.
I've heard matter = infinite and indefinite, and I like this characterization even more. But why is not consciousness reducable to physics? Why can't brain matter (in motion) produce a subjective effect of consciousness?

American cheese is gross, cheeseburgers are gross, macaroni & cheese is gross, cheese in excessive quantities is gross.

>>2542390
Don’t forget the social division of labour, that is a big one. Part of their fate is explained by their failure to dismantle the Collective Worker in the way it had previously been composed by Capital and made reliant upon Capital

>>2542171
Why do you come here daily to write gay tripe from fucking Stupidpol you fag?
>>2542530
Meaningless liberal response
“Le reality says capitalism cannot be overcome so let me masturbate to warmongering bourgeois dictator manlet cunts!”
Lmao
Die

>>2542085
Nah, you’re just a moraloid faggot, you should burn down your home with yourself and your family inside it
>Inb4 the retard thinks “moralism” is when you don’t worship the idea of unrestrained murder and not when you’re a moron that separates the world into the heroic good races who should rule and the evil races that should be destroyed
>>2542097
Marxists aren’t cultural relativists, faggot, we don’t think “muh culture” justifies brutalizing and imprisoning proles for arbitrary nonsense; we don’t give a flying FUCK about any bourgeois or premodern le traditionalist cultures, don’t get it twisted
Anyone that believes “muh cultural values” justifies killing proles is a fascist and needs to be treated like one

>>2542530
"Geopolitics" is an imperialist ideology, retard.
https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/fi/vol03/no09/cadman.htm
>Geopolitics, it is clear, is not a science but an imperialist myth. Geographical “problems” exist only in the sense that capitalism forces peoples into violent competition with one another in the course of which arguments from geography are used as a means for enslavement and exploitation while raw materials are denied the poverty stricken millions who need them. Under an international socialist economy, geography will no longer constitute a political or economic barrier to world-wide amity and cooperation, and the raw materials of the earth will be utilized for the collective use of mankind.

Nobody really has very much agency or choice in their life. Like any natural organism we are all born into the world with random hardcoded abilities and traits and limitations and our lives are largely determined by random circumstance. We try to be in control, we tell ourselves we're in control, but we're not. Never were, never will be. Some people are lucky and can find a place in this world; other people will never find any place in this world, no matter how hard they try. They are just born to suffer and die, to never know anything but pain.

>>2542655
It was MLs that started this left unity faggotry since they knew everyone else fucking hated them and they can only really “argue” their own retarded anti-communist nonsense by making it verboten to criticize their adolescent stupidity

Why the left bickered a lot between themselves and can't unite?

>>2542530
gr8 b8 m8, the encyclopedia itself clearly demonstrates its links to the nazis and the neo-nazis that attempt justifying them

>A bourgeois, reactionary concept that uses distorted interpretations of physical and economic geography to justify and promote the aggressive policies of imperialist states. Geopolitics's core ideas are the assertion of the decisive role of physical and geographical conditions in the life of human society and the inequality of races (see Racism). The theories of Social Darwinism (see Social Darwinism) and Malthusianism (see Malthusianism) are also used. Geopoliticians make extensive use of the concepts of "living space," "natural boundaries," and geographic location to justify militarism and wars of conquest.

>The concept of geopolitics arose during the period of imperialism. The first representatives of geopolitics were the Swedish political scientist and pan-Germanist R. Kjellén, who proposed the term "geopolitics" during the First World War (1914-1918) (as a doctrine of the state - a geographical and biological organism striving for expansion), the German geographer F. Ratzel, the English geographer H. Mackinder, the American admiral A. T. Mahan. In the period between the two world wars, geopolitics was intensively cultivated in Germany. Geopolitics became the official doctrine of German fascism. The head of the German geopoliticians was General K. Haushofer, the founder and editor (in 1924-44) of the journal "Zeitschrift für Geopolitik", which promoted the ideas of revanchism and aggression; K. Haushofer was closely connected with the leadership of the fascist [Nazi] party. In the United States in the 1940s, geopolitics' ideas were developed by N. Speakman and other geographers and sociologists.

>After World War II (1939–45), geopolitics began to revive in the United States, West Germany, and other imperialist states to justify the militarization of their countries, aggressive policies, and ideas of revanchism directed against socialist countries and national liberation movements. In West Germany, the journal "Zeitschrift für Geopolitik" was republished in 1951; the "Union of Geopolitics" was revived. Contemporary geopoliticians attempt to explain the contrast between socialist and capitalist countries by geographic factors.

<https://gufo.me/dict/bse/%D0%93%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0
>>2542563
>I worry we are losing a sizeable contingent of neurodivergent males and AMAB people to this particular trend of social media tribalism.
<using "amab" in a non-medical context
i genuinely think this problem is artificially overblown by concern trolling /pol/yps and youtube video essayist ᴉuᴉlossnW impersonators since most people in irl leftist spaces are still men

>>2542169
>>2542530
>>2543095
Le geopolitics is bourgeoisie politics

insulated communities that speak their own languages should start teaching their children english and assimilate into the communities around them. should apply to amish and jewish communities among others

>>2541194
I don't think they are controversial:
- People who follow personalities are idiots no matter the ideology
- Communism without democracy is bound to fail
- Most socialist leaders are only opportunists
- Religion must disappear, but not by force.
- Assimilation of immigrants is a must

If im being honest with myself OP, picrel is basically How I feel about religious/spiritual people. Once you cross a certain threshold of religiosity 9/10 times your not only a weak minded person(not dumb per se but too weak to just rawdog material reality) but also believe in an all powerful being so any of your shitty behavior can be excused.

>>2542423
Always with the fallback of “everyone who disagrees with me is a secret Nazi”. Which kind of reinforces my point; you deny anyone their right to feel alienated then when they insist they still do you say that alienation is evidence of some secret fascism.

It never works of course but it’s great at shutting down anything close to conversation. No need to reflect, just say anyone who has a problem with you is secretly evil.

>>2542171
only true if your an USian who is told the entirety of left wing politics in all of history is a bunch of college progressives. which is basically the narrative their sold tbf

Individualism is evil, anti-materialist, and probably fascist too

The united front is a myth that can literally never work, and it's class collaborationist too

The Bible is wrong for telling you to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, and that's the main reason why Christianity is the religion that is by far the most compatible with western imperialism and white supremacy

Only proles and lumpen should be allowed to be leftist or to join leftist spaces

State-mandated interracial procreation is the only way to stop white supremacy

Critically supporting China is ok because even though they're imperialist, at least they're not racist

OJ Simpson couldn't have done it, the timeline doesn't add up and the blood evidence was planted

I get the sense that a lot of you here are just utterly confused and have spent so much time on the internet that you can't even tell left from right anymore.

We should give up and accept the impending barbarism

Marx was a revolutionary theorist but a reformist in practice which he confirmed in his chauvinist official statements during the Franco-Prussian war, his absolute belief in bourgeois democracy and his rejection of "Marxism" against proto-ultras, to the point where he was arguing against abolishing child labor "too soon." It directly influenced Engels into teaching the Kautskys and the Bernsteins into doing what they did. This later continued with Leninism, which incorporated Bakunin, Russian-styled anarchism – characterized by strict discipline within professional revolutionary organizations – and melded the two. When other flavors of Marxists try to point at those as a big "betrayal" they only recognize the idealistic vision of Marx. This is a reoccurring theme among the left, idealizing a mystical version of the person rather than the actual person.

His theories are still valid because people can be right in their theory but wrong in practice. This is what helps separate it from great man worship. Rejection of this is a rejection of critical thinking, reducing you to a brainless ideologue.

>>2541194
The most important lesson from 20th century socialism is that there wasn't enough red terror… not by a long shot

I really really disagree with anarchism, but I also completely accept its compatibility with pre-existing western philosophy that primarily revolves around the individual. Communism will always be considered “le authoritarianism” in Europe and the US because people have been conditioned here for millenia to believe it’s intrinsically oppressive to have a concept of “the greater good” where if that is ever served then it’s only as a grave sacrifice.

To wit, when western rightists claim that western leftists are all about supporting “society” only until it cost them their own money, freedoms, sense of importance, etc are basically correct and the constant splits with leftist parties at least partially prove this.

The EU is indeed evil because its just here to maintain the neolib world order however european cooperation that should still be put forward within leftist circles as opposed to being "sovereignist" or whatever, its not by sheltering ourselves within nationalism that we'll get anywhere

I unironically want white genocide, but in a sense I also want the genocide of all races.
Essentially, in order to stop racial divisions amongst people I want everyone to mix together until everyone is a mixed race, in which case we can stop the dumb racial divisions.

>>2552351
i completely agree with genociding my own race but i can't bring myself to decide for the rest of them ;(

I do not trust anyone who claims to be religious and a Marxist.
Either admit you're an materialist with cultural / childhood baggage, or just be a religious socialist.
This goes out to Hasan, Hakim, Haz, and the 100s of others doing the grift of pretending to be both religious and Marxist in order to retain viewers from both sides.

>>2552351
This used to be a pretty common take or at least a widely held perception of how humanity would turn out.

>>2552434
When does Hasan pretend to be religious? From my understanding he's non-practicing. A lot of the Muslim stuff he says as a bit. He does shit on atheists fairly often which is annoying (considering atheists are statistically far more likely to agree with him on pretty much every issue).

>>2552437
>When does Hasan pretend to be religious?
>He does shit on atheists fairly often

You just debunked yourself.

Honestly I'm tired of the Hasan glazing in here, yeah he's good on 50% of shit but some of you all white knight this one demsoc streamer who doesn't understand any Marxist theory so hard.
Why? Because his haters are r-tarded MAGA fanatics and zionists? Because he's hot? Actually listen to his takes please.

A general prohibition of child labor is incompatible with the existence of large-scale industry and hence an empty, pious wish. Its realization – if it were possible – would be reactionary, since, with a strict regulation of the working time according to the different age groups and other safety measures for the protection of children, an early combination of productive labor with education is one of the most potent means for the transformation of present-day society.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/append.htm
I think every child above the age of nine ought to be employed at productive labour a portion of its time, but the way in which they are made to work under existing circumstances is abominable.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1868/machinery-speech.htm

Love the H3 podcast
Anything other than socialist democracy doesn't work
People who love regimes while living in a first world country are cringy as hell