/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2542082
then what are you doing on this board promoting liberal idpol but ""opposite day""
>ignore the comprador bourgeois, the main cause of evil is homosexuals! actually that porky in particular is based because he imports (your) resources to a designated baZed country. no idea about the costs or working conditions or who works there or whatever is extracted but we must fight le evil gender change

>>2542091
Every split made the site worse. Every split was about clashing egos.

My le controversial take is that le everyone should take le ICP seriously

>>2542100
Splits are good

>>2542099

>the comprador bourgeois, the main cause of evil is homosexuals
Not everyone is from latam here, dude

>>2542100
Every split proved the previously held tankie position right.

>>2542101
You will never get me to put clown makeup on and drink faygo

>>2542108
<idpol only exists in latin america
if you're talking about the term comprador bourgeois being latam imperialist collaborators only then might as well restrict the use of bourgeoisie to the urbanites of western europe
>Compradors are a bourgeois class in colonized countries that collaborates with foreign imperialists.

>>2542056
Yes, especially compared to MLs and Christoids

>>2542119
You are missing the point entirely.

You are not dangerous as gay. You are dangerous proletarian. Being gay proletarian isn't a superpower. It's normal.

You are living in a corporate created "cultural bubble" you think is "Western Normal" while it's isn't even a mainstream belief. You are culturally killing yourselves while economically killing yourselves.

Can you stop please? Last time this happened your ilk turned into Nazis, while IRL and 24/7 your opinion polls and politicians talk about necessary confrontations, tariffs, and potential war scenarios with China.

Can you stop plz

>>2542151
what
>while IRL and 24/7 your opinion polls and politicians talk about necessary confrontations, tariffs, and potential war scenarios with China.
<only americans ever use this website

>>2542155
Are you from the West? Your politicians do this. Even if they don't govern yet, they will in the future – some of them.

It's geopol analysis, dude.

You are nazifying SJW- and pol/cel/-style at the same time as two sides of the same coin dude

>>2541194

That the only way to achieve revolution is by a massive conscious sacrifice by the proletariat where people willing jump into the grinding machine. Only when enough blood is spilled will the revolution happen.

But the masses will not willingly give up their life. So revolution will not happen

>>2542160
>You are nazifying SJW- and pol/cel/-style at the same time as two sides of the same coin dude
i completely agree because that was the point i was trying to make. both focused on identity politics

"geopolitics" is an anti-marxist reactionary pseudoscience used to justify acts of fascist and imperialist aggression, read the soviet encyclopedia's entry on it

The Left created an impression it doesn’t give a fuck about anyone but marginalized groups which has essentially ceded the concept of a mass movement to the right, rather than attempting to rectify this, the standard response is to act like it already has and that bringing this up any further is the real problem.

Controversial to the majority?

US is running a ponzi scheme economy that is completely driven by debt and is failing as an empire. Its currency is fiat, its production capabilities are in decline, it has a tremendous debt that is growing, militarily its overstretched and tries to be involved at many conflicts at the same time. It is more likely that US as empire will be a more passive on looker after 5 - 10years have passed than a consistent aggressor of conflicts. I find it very unlikely that an all out war will happen between Russia / China and US. More conflicts will not save the US economy from paying its interest on debt, nor will it cause economic growth.

Its most important vassal states (western European union) have been in sharp decline for the last 20 years. The EU project is a complete failure if you look at how the GDP as percentage of world GDP developed within the last 20 years (consistent decline every quarter!). This is despite these western countries also taking on tremendous debts and printing money, far more than a lot of their competitors are doing. To top it off their currency is shared by a few southern European countries with debt problems just as bad if not worse than the USA. The other member states can not bail out all of these southern countries.

I think its extremely likely that US will stop being the empire as we know it within the next 5 - 10 years and that EU countries will further drop into irrelevancy. Its more likely that there is massive unrest in Europe than US in the future even though US will crash. There will likely not be a civil war type of scenario that the US right wing fawns all over.

A general prohibition of child labor is incompatible with the existence of large-scale industry and hence an empty, pious wish. Its realization–if it were possible–would be reactionary, since, with a strict regulation of the working time according to the different age groups and other safety measures for the protection of children, an early combination of productive labor with education is one of the most potent means for the transformation of present-day society.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/append.htm
I think every child above the age of nine ought to be employed at productive labour a portion of its time, but the way in which they are made to work under existing circumstances is abominable.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1868/machinery-speech.htm

>>2541869
Leftypol changed gigantically from the days of 8chan and so did its /pol/ userbase.

>>2541459
I think most of the right and left from the west (EU / US) both stopped caring compared to 15-20 years ago. US seems on an inevitable downward spiral with its gigantic debt + interest payments and only the dumbest of the right wing unironically follows Trump. Western Europe has had a clownshow of leadership the last 15-20 years that's somehow even worse than the clown sitting in the white house currently. Western Europe will follow US into the decline and will end up getting hurt worse than US will.

There's no saving these western countries anymore of what's to come. There is no policy to turn things around. Nobody really wants a revolution because then a lot of economic pain needs to be taken by society.

>>2542217
>because then a lot of economic pain needs to be taken by society
That’s happening regardless

>>2541760
I fully agree with this take. Weed and LSD make you slow and stupid which is good because proletarians have a right to be lazy af. Petty-bourgeois managerial types and their ilk are those abusing cocaine, speed and meth. Ritalin is concentrated Hitler particles.

>>2542288

Leftists used to use amphetamines heavily in the 1960s, it was largely what fueled the hippie movement, but over time it destroyed the hippe's minds and left them in permanent psychosis so they found Jesus or became scientologists or whatever.

>>2541998
>First point doesn't understand what private property means
No, I'm pretty sure you don't know what private property means, and what the actual implications of communist organization are. I do mean indeed to abolish all kinds of ownership. The Communists seek the abolition of private property as such.

What, however, are the implications of the abolition of every and all kinds of ownership? That one owns nothing, that 'ownership' in fact as a word becomes purely colloquial and in reference to an individual's particular USE of an object for whatever period of time, whether it is until this individual is dead or otherwise.

The Communists destroy any and all kinds of ownership, for the Communists this notion becomes redundant, for what does humanity own vis a vis to? Nature? God? Wherein not only private property but the private individual as such ceases to exist, what can it MEAN to "own" if not only TO USE? Without this juxtaposition to the other, ownership ceases to mean anything.

One no longer "owns" even their own clothing - instead, they wear them, or even the paper they use to wipe their ass - instead, they use it to wipe. Objects cease to be meaningful outside of their utility. Only man endures as meaningful in and of himself.

It is not that all individuals like a pious community of monks forsake ownership in the vein of humbling themselves to god. It is that their ownership is in a sense a given, therefore becomes redundant, because no longer do any men own vis a vis other men, at the same time those objects otherwise owned become testament to the endurance and strength of the new order, they become finally mere semblances, vanishing apparitions of man's wider conquest of all nature and his expansion to all corners of space, i.e. they are recognized as disposable and useful only in the context of a now infinite conquest of nature, of an infinite revolutionizing of the means of production that never ends.

To possess anxiety over the idea that in this hypothetical context an other may steal, may therefore deprive you of your use of an object… Is to betray that one has failed to grasp the most basic and elementary understanding of the essence of Communism.

That is, it is this anxiety itself (over the other) which is the root cause of actual theft in the first place. If you wish to insist on that anxiety, do yourself a favor and admit that you insist that Communism is impossible, forget about such silly questions (of ownership in a future society) and enjoy your life, for you have already admitted that you insist such a future society cannot exist in the first place.

>>2541998
>Second point is not a thing. There are biological differences between men and women.
Never said otherwise. But these essential biological differences are reflected onto to be essential social differences, which is retarded. That's my point. We are proletarians and therefore socially equal members of society despite our essential differences. That's the point. It isn't like that today.

>>2541998
>Third point is dumb and again comes off like a rightoid strawman.
I won't argue about my takes on the housing question because none of you are ready for these trvkes.

instead of people being forced to use their real name on the internet they should have their total net worth displayed next to their usernames

>>2542293
I remember someone arguing that to Marx any alienated property is private property, including state owned property. So in that case public/private which is how most people frame it nowadays is a red herring.

>>2541430
prometheus has luciferian characteristics if you think about it

>>2541202
>I also advocate for communal baths and toilets, though that may be too radical for some here.
I keep having a recurrent nightmare about being trapped in a giant communal bath, thank you for reminding me

>>2542171
>The Left created an impression it doesn’t give a fuck about anyone but marginalized groups
literally only nazis get that impression, and i'm not sure if they even fully subscribe to it, or if it's just some clumsy sleight of hand to justify mass murder abroad.

>>2542381
I mean there are actual stats (inb4 "The democrats aren't the left and no one considers them left or representative of it") that shows people see the dems as "caring about marginalized groups" but not caring about working people, but again this goes into my second point of doing anything except acknowledging this impression is real and is a problem to be fixed.

That there has never been a socialist/lower stage of communism state because they have always been betrayed before they could achieve it. That Leninism and its derivatives, being authoritarian, are very effective at transforming a semi-feudal country in a capitalist one, but will never be able to transform a capitalist country into a socialist/lower stage of communism one, because they are held back by the very ideological components that allowed their revolutions to succeed and their regimes to remain stable: vanguardism, "democratic" centralism, top-down control of the economy, and nationalism.

>>2542387
>that shows people see the dems as "caring about marginalized groups" but not caring about working people
well this is a characterization that pretty much defines the right wing position, and is immensely popular with xitter nazis, seems like it's pretty popular with you too, you're always so close to literally spouting white supremacist talking points, why would that be?

Our whole society's conception of health is completely fucked, heavily influenced by ableism and classism and capitalism and fascist eugenics bullshit. Health is treated as a matter of personal responsibility, illnesses and disabilities are treated as moral failings or lack of discipline, natural human traits and feelings are pathologized, human bodies are thought of like manufactured products that must be improved and optimized for maximum efficiency, weeding out the weak or sickly or strange-looking ones, building a generation of strong able-bodied conveniently interchangeable workers all the same shape and size. Bourgeoisie would-be leftists remain utterly ignorant of the systemic poverty that leads to higher rates of obesity, drug addiction, alcoholism, tobacco use, etc. and continue to engage in body shaming and perpetuating outmoded stereotypes about fat people being lazy and entitled and rich which the reality is the direct opposite.

>>2542000
>hitlerism
Unserious and Instantly dismissed

>>2542432
Trvke

>>2541194
<muh immigrants
where and why do you think 'bring millions of immigrants from very radical different cultures' is happening. the way you say this is very reactionary-coded, this is mainly a concern fascists bring up with 'white replacement' mythology completely divorced from factual analysis.

<muh genes
'i was born gay' is an outdated liberal take. you can choose to be gay, or trans, and thats ok too. we are so far from understanding the intricacies of genetics, let alone consciousness, that to assume literally anything that broad about genetics is absurd. even very specific genes affect people's phenotypes, let alone psychological behavior, in significantly different ways. again, this is another reactionary-coded talking point, one step towards racist eugenics. typical fascist reasoning goes something like: 'different genes cause different behaviors' => 'different races are prone to different behaviors' => 'different races have different crime rates due to genetics' => 'some races are superior to others' => 'we must strictly control and regulate the inferior races for their own good' => 'we must exterminate the inferior races for our own races safety'. regardless of your intent, this is the obvious interpretation of your statements and why one might think you are a 'eugenicist'.

<muh desert religion
evangelicals and fundamentalists of any particular religion will be reactionary and vile, and less evangelical and less fundamentalist interpretations exist for every single major religion, many of these non-fundamentalist and non-evangelical interpretations being perfectly compatible with life under socialism or communism. the main issue is preventing religious organizations from having tax-exempt status, or any significant ability to influence politics. if people want to make non-dogmatic metaphysical speculations, let them.

ok so here's some of my own controversial takes.

>consciousness is not reducible to physics, and most leftists have a crude understanding of what 'Idealism' means, equating it merely to solipsism.

many kinds of empiricist idealism are fully compatible with communist modes of organization and governance, and this insistence on vulgar physicalism will only drive away people that prefer to think of life as more meaningful than random atoms bumping into each other. I find Lenin's definition of 'materialism' in 'empirio-criticism', where the only defining quality of matter is that it 'exists outside our own minds', to be more useful than the pop-science misanthropic redditor attitude most leftists seem to have.

>most leftist spaces have reactionary attitudes when it comes to sex and gender.

'anyone who has trouble having a fulfilling romantic life is a misogynist incel' is a take i see too commonly among so called feminists. as a nonbinary neurodivergent person that has been studying feminist history and theory since before i could masturbate, and whose social issues are caused by mental health problems, this is a hurtful idea to see in leftist communities. Women, even leftist feminist women, often unintentionally reinforce toxic attitudes about men being conquering raping savages, mocking those who fail at this standard, it often seems that the only way to be a feminist ally as a masculine-coded person to some leftists is to transition, be gay, or be some caricature of a right-wing 'chad' meme but its leftist somehow because you are attractive. I worry we are losing a sizeable contingent of neurodivergent males and AMAB people to this particular trend of social media tribalism.

>>2541590
>splitting over petty bullshit
it's not petty bullshit and you'd know that if you read theory. There's a gap between communists and anarchists and people trying to tell you they are both or 'anarchocommunist' are as retarded as people thinking that if you mix water and oil fast and long enough, you get woil or oter.

>>2542563
> I find Lenin's definition of 'materialism' in 'empirio-criticism', where the only defining quality of matter is that it 'exists outside our own minds', to be more useful than the pop-science misanthropic redditor attitude most leftists seem to have.
I've heard matter = infinite and indefinite, and I like this characterization even more. But why is not consciousness reducable to physics? Why can't brain matter (in motion) produce a subjective effect of consciousness?

American cheese is gross, cheeseburgers are gross, macaroni & cheese is gross, cheese in excessive quantities is gross.

>>2542390
Don’t forget the social division of labour, that is a big one. Part of their fate is explained by their failure to dismantle the Collective Worker in the way it had previously been composed by Capital and made reliant upon Capital

>>2542171
Why do you come here daily to write gay tripe from fucking Stupidpol you fag?
>>2542530
Meaningless liberal response
“Le reality says capitalism cannot be overcome so let me masturbate to warmongering bourgeois dictator manlet cunts!”
Lmao
Die

>>2542085
Nah, you’re just a moraloid faggot, you should burn down your home with yourself and your family inside it
>Inb4 the retard thinks “moralism” is when you don’t worship the idea of unrestrained murder and not when you’re a moron that separates the world into the heroic good races who should rule and the evil races that should be destroyed
>>2542097
Marxists aren’t cultural relativists, faggot, we don’t think “muh culture” justifies brutalizing and imprisoning proles for arbitrary nonsense; we don’t give a flying FUCK about any bourgeois or premodern le traditionalist cultures, don’t get it twisted
Anyone that believes “muh cultural values” justifies killing proles is a fascist and needs to be treated like one

>>2542530
"Geopolitics" is an imperialist ideology, retard.
https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/fi/vol03/no09/cadman.htm
>Geopolitics, it is clear, is not a science but an imperialist myth. Geographical “problems” exist only in the sense that capitalism forces peoples into violent competition with one another in the course of which arguments from geography are used as a means for enslavement and exploitation while raw materials are denied the poverty stricken millions who need them. Under an international socialist economy, geography will no longer constitute a political or economic barrier to world-wide amity and cooperation, and the raw materials of the earth will be utilized for the collective use of mankind.

Nobody really has very much agency or choice in their life. Like any natural organism we are all born into the world with random hardcoded abilities and traits and limitations and our lives are largely determined by random circumstance. We try to be in control, we tell ourselves we're in control, but we're not. Never were, never will be. Some people are lucky and can find a place in this world; other people will never find any place in this world, no matter how hard they try. They are just born to suffer and die, to never know anything but pain.

>>2542655
It was MLs that started this left unity faggotry since they knew everyone else fucking hated them and they can only really “argue” their own retarded anti-communist nonsense by making it verboten to criticize their adolescent stupidity

Why the left bickered a lot between themselves and can't unite?

>>2542530
gr8 b8 m8, the encyclopedia itself clearly demonstrates its links to the nazis and the neo-nazis that attempt justifying them

>A bourgeois, reactionary concept that uses distorted interpretations of physical and economic geography to justify and promote the aggressive policies of imperialist states. Geopolitics's core ideas are the assertion of the decisive role of physical and geographical conditions in the life of human society and the inequality of races (see Racism). The theories of Social Darwinism (see Social Darwinism) and Malthusianism (see Malthusianism) are also used. Geopoliticians make extensive use of the concepts of "living space," "natural boundaries," and geographic location to justify militarism and wars of conquest.

>The concept of geopolitics arose during the period of imperialism. The first representatives of geopolitics were the Swedish political scientist and pan-Germanist R. Kjellén, who proposed the term "geopolitics" during the First World War (1914-1918) (as a doctrine of the state - a geographical and biological organism striving for expansion), the German geographer F. Ratzel, the English geographer H. Mackinder, the American admiral A. T. Mahan. In the period between the two world wars, geopolitics was intensively cultivated in Germany. Geopolitics became the official doctrine of German fascism. The head of the German geopoliticians was General K. Haushofer, the founder and editor (in 1924-44) of the journal "Zeitschrift für Geopolitik", which promoted the ideas of revanchism and aggression; K. Haushofer was closely connected with the leadership of the fascist [Nazi] party. In the United States in the 1940s, geopolitics' ideas were developed by N. Speakman and other geographers and sociologists.

>After World War II (1939–45), geopolitics began to revive in the United States, West Germany, and other imperialist states to justify the militarization of their countries, aggressive policies, and ideas of revanchism directed against socialist countries and national liberation movements. In West Germany, the journal "Zeitschrift für Geopolitik" was republished in 1951; the "Union of Geopolitics" was revived. Contemporary geopoliticians attempt to explain the contrast between socialist and capitalist countries by geographic factors.

<https://gufo.me/dict/bse/%D0%93%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0
>>2542563
>I worry we are losing a sizeable contingent of neurodivergent males and AMAB people to this particular trend of social media tribalism.
<using "amab" in a non-medical context
i genuinely think this problem is artificially overblown by concern trolling /pol/yps and youtube video essayist ᴉuᴉlossnW impersonators since most people in irl leftist spaces are still men

>>2542169
>>2542530
>>2543095
Le geopolitics is bourgeoisie politics