>"I shouldn't be shamed for not living up to capitalist society's expectations of me, I should be allowed to be my authentic self without being criticized and I shouldn't have to change myself based on some arbitrary capitalist standard"
This seems to be the sentiment that dominates the minds of zoomers and most millennials that drives them towards the left whether we want to admit it or not. This is what makes a lot of younger people under 40 embrace anti-capitalist politics, question social norms that are the superstructure of modern capitalism, become anti-eugenics, embrace new identity groups, and so on. Look no further than Tumblr from the mid 2010s or TikTok today. My question is, why haven't any communist or socialist parties been able to gather these types of people up? The DSA's entire strategy is simply economistic "healthcare and unions" babble that they weaponize to push the Democrats further to the left. Yet we shouldn't forget that the millennial left (namely, the people who participated in the anti-war movement in the 2000s and Occupy in 2011-12) all folded into DSA by the end of the 2010s. So why can't the DSA bring in those frustrated zoomers from TikTok, the ones who make videos on queerness and unmasking autism and mental health and why nearly all romantic relationships are inherently predatory or whatever? Maybe if the people on that platform were in a political party they'd have actual pragmatic political goals.
>vibes based analysis
>>2574004As a DSA member that has to "work" with these "people" I wish they would leave. They are nothing but liberals that now call themselves "leftists". They have seen the contradiction liberalism and instead of abolishing it they want to progress it.
the left needs a job placement program not more "volunteer opportunities" Ironically, this is exactly what happened for Latinos, Indians, and Arab immigrants lol.
>>2574171Needed to be said.
This is what zero dialectical materialism does to a mf
i wish i was one of these people
deeper analysis has only deepened my suffering. none of the "serious" leftists are really serious, they're as unserious as these people, they just have a much lamer hobby.
>>2574004There’s nothing wrong with wanting a relatively unalienated life. The problem with these people isn’t wanting to be themselves, it’s that they never think bigger.
>>2574529They ask for unrealistic demands though, like abolishing the family unit or rearranging language to centre the autistic communication style (e.g. abolishing sarcasm).
All DSA would have to do to win over zoomers is demand the age of consent be raised to 25.
>>2574004So I’m a “true millennial” who works with the college kids between 18-22 whom you’re describing. I can say I feel more like a babysitter than a mentor most of the time. About 2/3rds of them have autism and/or ADHD and many of them claim to have CPTSD. They’re obsessed with their individual trauma. I mean obsessed. They never want to talk about actual Marxist concepts like the falling rate of profit, or overproduction, or the transformation problem, or even things like Lenin’s understanding of imperialism or Gramsci’s cultural hegemony. All I hear are stories about how Sally is a CSA survivor who was molested by her stepfather at age eight and can’t work a regular job due to her CPTSD, or how Timmy has all sorts of religious trauma from growing up in an Evangelical household. The problem is, you can’t build a political program around individual trauma. These discussions belong in a therapy session, not a Marxist study group.
Most of them can’t read, or rather refuse to read. I will suggest reading a prominent text like Engels’ Anti-Duhring and many of them will claim they’re flat-out illiterate due to “AuDHD” and can only consume the text as an audiobook. I have to ask how any of them are able to pass freshman English (or any of their classes for that matter) if their brains can’t focus like this. They all want instant gratification. They don’t want to read the actual text but want someone to spoon feed them the main ideas. It’s like knowing the ending of the novel before you start it. They also consume most of their knowledge from short-firm media like TikToks or Instagram reels. I’m sorry, but you can’t have a comprehensive understanding of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Gramsci, Althusser, etc. from a two-minute video.
I know I shouldn’t romanticize the past, but this is NOT the left I once knew. I’m 37 years old and an adjunct professor at a large state university. What I experience now with these kids is day and night to what I experienced on the left when I was their age. This is not the left I attended anti-war marches with. This is not the left I occupied Wall Street with, sleeping in Zuccotti Park under the stars. This isn’t the left I studied theory with 10-13 years ago post-Occupy. This is a Franken-left. I won’t even call it a “left”.
So why do I keep doing this? Because in spite of everything I still see potential in these kids. I know they’re capable of so much more, they just refuse to engage because their intellect and attention spans are so short. They need actual guidance and a real political movement to attach themselves to.
>anti-capitalism
meaningless buzzword that in practice means nothing to communism
<another culture thread
<le cringe is le dead shit
<the DSA is "pushing" dems "to the left" (polsci nonsense)
what a retarded thread
>>2575180The only purpose that the American left serves is to push the Democrats further left. That’s it. There is no real socialist party that can compete.
Good, people with that mindset are easy to explain historical materialism to since they have no pearls to clutch about it.
>babbling about tiktok and le hecking woke while spilling internalized cringe culture onto it
Get off of there, use loops if you need something similar but by any means necessary, get off of tiktok. The zoomers you're obsessed with are leaving there anyway.
>>2574752>abolishing the family unitbased
>rearranging language to centre the autistic communication style (e.g. abolishing sarcasm).based because what you're omitting is they're just asking you mark / tag it. Metadata assisted communication is the obvious next step in the evolution of language and resisting this is luddism.
The use of tone indicators have allowed me to be
more sarcastic, and I've seen the same in others. It's revitalizing sarcasm, not killing it.
>>2575163Forget Marxism who's gonna be building and designing our bridges or any other technical pursuit that requires reading? Or is that what the Asian immigrants are for.
>>2575163Best of luck pal but it seems that all of those kids will bail any semblance of "leftism" if they get their individual needs attended somewhat
>>2575222How do you organize for these things in a socialist context? Especially when there is no real American leftist party or movement?
>>2575231You don't because they are retarded anti-social garbage that will get you laughed at at best and at worst just give more ammo for rightists to rally people against socialism
>>2575235>nooo what are the rightoids going to think about us!once again the ""lefty"" /pol/er reveals himself
>>2575239Do you have difficulty reading or something? Where did I say the concern is what rightists are gonna think of us?
This retarded garbage you are peddling is simply repelant and anyone in the right or that isn't insane can use it as ammo to ridicule the movement because of how out of touch with reality it is
>>2575235>respectability politics>>2574851Why is this place filled with promiscuity-promoting and sex-obsessed people?
>>2575222Sarcasm is funnier without a <sarcasm> tag, the great thing about it is when the other person understands it, it builds a connections between the two (or more) of you. It shows you two understand each other.
>>2575244So all oral language disappears and everything becomes text? No. I like talking. Autistics who don’t can suck it. Not everything on earth needs to revolve around them.
>>2574851The only reason raising the Age of Consent is being debated at all is because zoomers by and large do not want to grow up. They want to be teenagers forever, because they see no benefit to being adults in 2025 when all of the perks of adulthood have alluded them. They think it’s easier to just be a child and have mom do everything for you.
>>2575223That’s what I’m afraid of. A society made up of retarded people can’t sustain anything. I get all the criticisms of the capitalist education system but being illiterate is nothing to be proud of. It’s terrifying. Stupid people don’t build infrastructure or cure diseases. If all of us were stupid and illiterate we would easily be wiped out by the flu like many of our ancestors were.
>>2575230Yes, I frequently think this too. As much as I love educating them and still see the hood in them it’s very obvious they’ll abandon Marxism as soon as they can find identity validation somewhere else. Most of them were only drawn to leftism in the first place due to trauma and feeling like an outsider. Once they find a new subculture their politics will inevitably morph.
>>2575222The problem with “abolish sarcasm” or whatever is that there is no leftist movement that could implement something that outlandish even if it wanted to. And from my experience working with autistic young adults, the biggest problem they have is that they can’t properly distinguish between fantasy and reality. It’s like they need the world to operate exactly as they want it to operate or else they’ll shrivel up and die (or at least they claim). Autistic people tend to have noticeable difficulty understanding nuance and compromising with others. My students who have autism are all extremely stubborn and can’t question anything they believe. Dealing with those kinds of attitudes is a nightmare.
>>2575290There's no "movement" involved, it's just tagging shit properly.
>>2575244I'm mostly talking about published works, like posts on microblogs and articles. Not sure how tone indicators are used in private messages. I'm sure people drop them when a subject is well established enough for both parties involved to know it's sarcasm.
Seems like it's a good training wheels tool for people struggling with sarcasm, I used to struggle with it but now I can infer it pretty easily even with strangers usually.
>>2575337>no movement involvedAll I need to know. Worthless garbage.
>>2575340It’s about living the Overton window. That’s also the point of all the TikToks and IG videos. You don’t need a plan of action so as long as you’re educating the masses and making them aware of injustices in the world and what needs to change.
>>2575340The movementist has spoken, anything that isn't fast fashion for politics is "worthless," especially socialism. #hashtag #yassn't
>>2575356We've been saying this for decades now.
>"education and awareness will move the overton window">"education and awareness will move the overton window">"education and awareness will move the overton window">"education and awareness will move the overton window">"education and awareness will move the overton window"Rinse and repeat. When do things start changing for real?
>>2575163This is by design. The capitalists put the ultimate distraction toy into every kid's hands so that they would become retarded and incapable of rebellion. Notice how actual socialist countries (China, Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea Belarus, etc.) ban their kids from using their phones during school time.
>>2575469What capitalist country doesn't also do that?
>>2575466>Rinse and repeat. When do things start changing for real?When there's a politically organized leftist party in America that does more than tail the Democrats. A genuine socialist party could ban eugenics, ban ABA therapy and force autism acceptance on to the country. The Democrats won't.
>>2575163The left you did all those things with achieved less than nothing. These kids may also achieve nothing, but at least they're failing differently. At least they haven't had a decade of smug self-satisfied failure to run on.
>>2575469Although it will naturally vary from child to child, there are a substantial number of children for whom a phone is a more valuable learning tool than school itself. (Basically: those who'll use it to read wikipedia instead of watching tiktok. School is a comically inefficient way of educating people and a miserable, prison-like environment where the main thing you learn is how to exploit goodhart's law to credentialist ends. College is much better because it loses a lot of the prison-like elements, but it's still basically bad at what it does. You really can't get past goodhart's law when it comes to testing-with-consequences.)
If it was up to me they'd all be on computers (a much better device than a phone and one much better oriented to reading/writing seriously), but it is what it is.
>>2575286As I said, best of luck comrade. Maybe your efforts will at least save one of them.
>>2575546It's worse because they are not only failing but also are literal retarded cattle that cannot function as adults
>>2574004>""communism"" will happen because… terminally online teenagers and young adults dont care about being seen as weirdosannoyingly middle classer thread obsessed with culture. touch some grass please
>>2575194>more polsci nonsensedemocrats are part of the leftoid umbrella too, idiot. the left/right divide (not a spectrum) is part of bourgeois politics, which communism seeks to transcend
>>2575481Why would a legitimately socialist party prioritize autistic idpol over issues that actually have to do with socialism?
>>2575546>The left you did all those things with achieved less than nothingThey built community. Trauma-obsessed chronically-online zoomers largely do not.
>>2574004Yeah I suggest younger people of getting a friend group that isnt normiemaxxing but instead people who share interests and appreciate you. There is nothing more valuable than a good friend.
>>2575163It’s the fault of the left for not adopting to the newer generation’s values. If most young people are autistic and can’t read a full book then the left needs to focus on making TikToks and other short form content that’s accessible for the autistic brain instead of forcing them to read. You wouldn’t demand a fish climb a tree.
>>2574004>The DSA's entire strategy is simply economistic "healthcare and unions" babble But thats fucking based. Enough with the idpol.
>>2575815concerning yourself with the price of this or that commodity is literally just part and parcel of capitalism lol unless you unironically believe all of europe is communist
>>2575814>le masses rhetoric>communism will happen when everyone regardless of class reads the right book>"we" need to appeal to the politically inert who arent even part of the working force with fucking tiktoks LMAOwhat the fuck is wrong with amerilards man eternal democracybrains
>>2574004<all folded into DSALeftypol is bigger than your american bubble.
What we share:
>same need for basic necessities like shelter food safety working conditions etc>even beyond absolute basic necessities like relationships>basically same class interestest This includes 90% of population no matter the country. We are all wage slaves for porkies. And in this we are united.
What we dont share (and its completely ok even desirable):
>language>culture>race>sex>gender>sexuality>etcThese are not things that unite us. The thing about idpol is that these are fragmented fights and specialists who porky hired know this.
United we stand and divided we fall.
>>2575824>same class interestest includes 90% of population no matter the countryLOL good ol "CEOs are proletarian" bullshit. and you say others are in an american bubble?
>>2574004>authentic selfseriously makes no sense to me as a materialist, as a person interested in modern science, and as someone who engages in introspection. There is no neutral state of human existence, you are always influenced by a hundred factors from air pressure and humidity to your gut biome and how you slept that day, and for many of those people, also mind-altering drugs, be they legal and prescribed or illegal. That's not even to mention the way the human brain reacts to the world, even typing on any keyboard is an example of the brain not being a unified existence by any means. If you ever pay attention to the way you act, you will notice that this extends to all your life, including social situations, learning, work and so on.
But maybe I'm just being a mongoloid and aryan vril is required to get it
>>2575163This is spot on.
I'm about your age but I'm going back to school as a student. The kids are like this there and then they are even worse organizing.
People think individual trauma replacing learning.
Like I can see an apple falling but I don't know why until I red Newton. These kids these days absolutely "cooked" as they say.
>>2575832Yep lets focus on managerial workers or specialists instead of the actual parasites who take no part in production. Very constructive.
>>2575163>These discussions belong in a therapy session, not a Marxist study group.Ever consider it’s because therapy is too expensive and they need a safe space to talk about their issues?
Would you complain about a white make allistic worker talking about the CPTSD he acquired from injury on the job?
>>2575844Fuck off with your safe space liberal.
We are here to do work.
>>2575814Nah, you're retarded
There’s no point to bring a leftist in America. The only thing you’ll achieve is moving the Democrats to a more slightly left position.
Look at the queer community as an example: it started off as a radical, subversive subculture only to become a wing of the Democrats by 2015. How much longer before a transwoman becomes a notable Democratic congresswoman?
>>2574004the tattoo is sick and I admire people who do shit like that, people like OP don't get it because they are afraid to be themselves
>>2575911Tattoos are bourgeois individualism for westoids
>>2575964It's astonishing how twitter mangled the term individualism to the point where people here probably can't tell you're joking. Like "individualism is when individual does thing" level of mangled.
>>2575836Autistic folks shouldn’t be forced to mask and queer people shouldn’t be forced into the closet. Is that too much to ask?
>>2575981The point of body art is to distinguish yourself from others. That is individualism. We should discourage behaviors like that and work on things we have in common.
>>2575964you are attacking the west not from a place of anti imperialism but from a place of envy, you envy self expression and creative freedom, you are a repressed faggot who wants everyone to dress in grey and never smile, you are a coward.
>>2576030Self expression is liberal thought.
We must elevate the concerns of the collective, not spend lots of money for drawing permanent treats on your skin
>>2576031your specific concern with tattoos instead of broader material subjects is dumb idealism, people with tattoos work for and against communism, therefore it's an irrelevant subject.
you are just envious, what will you do once your ideal society is achieved? will you have fun and be creative then or will you keep scolding everyone until you die?
>>2575896What about mutual aid and community care?
>>2575837The primacy of personal/lived experience is toxic. It accomplishes nothing.
we need a way to explain to these misery peddling uyghurs the difference between being a treatlerite and just having fun, because there is a clear difference and these retards don't see it.
>>2576065They are themselves treatlerites and thus can't distinguish fun from treats.
>>2575466You rely on the community to fight for the marginalized and politics will follow suit.
>>2576053I acknowledge experience is the root of all knowledge, but one cannot experience everything. That is why we must read and learn from those that have not only experienced but changed the material world with their thought.
>>2576071White people getting dreamcatchers drawn on them for a thousand bucks is not art, it is a treat
Tattoos are Funko pops for the body
>>2576107>It isn't VRIL so it's not art!!That's where you spill the spaghetti? That didn't even follow from the post you replied to. Did you have a stack of Q-cards with talking points scribbled on them and just draw from the deck?
>>2574004>>2575163Circlejerking over trauma is not and will never be leftism.
>>2576139What if it's working-class people talking about how their shitty workplace experiences gave them trauma?
>>2576139Because it can't overcome capitalism, the same way that queer politics, gender politics, autistic politics, Islamism, etc. can't overcome capitalism. On what basis can idpol overcome capitalism?
>>2576279
Why are you doedging the question with complete non-sequitor? No one mentioned universities, put away your Q-card deck.
>>2575836So what is alienation then?
>>2576289A lot of leftists today just take it for granted that the people on the bottom of the hierarchy are the ones who will transcend or abolish the hierarchy. That's the end conclusion of intersectionality, anyway.
>>2576339Alieanation is not about individual but species or something
>>2576341Happiness is the goal in the struggle for freedom.
>>2576023Freedom to be exactly as you are is an aristocratic ideology.
Freedom to transcend what you currently are is a proletarian ideology.
>>2575848>Muh safe space is le badFound the chud. Kill yourself.
>>2575163>All I hear are stories about how Sally is a CSA survivor who was molested by her stepfather at age eight and can’t work a regular job due to her CPTSD, or how Timmy has all sorts of religious trauma from growing up in an Evangelical household. The problem is, you can’t build a political program around individual trauma. These discussions belong in a therapy session, not a Marxist study group.There's a logic to this though. It's been proven time and time again that people who grew up in abusive households often repeat the cycle of trauma. So for instance, a young woman who was sexually abused as a child by older adult male family members or family friends is a million times more likely to fall into multiple abusive relationships throughout her lifetime, because she associates abuse with love. Queer people who grew up in ultra-religious households are way more likely to fall into drug and alcohol abuse or have suicidal ideation. Same thing with autistic people. Masking is the number one reason autistic people become drug/alcohol addicted and suicidal, or develop eating disorders or some other harmful behaviours. You, as their mentor, are morally required to provide them a safe space to unmark and be their authentic selves, even if it takes away from discussion of "Marxist" things. Hell, there's nothing more anti-Marxist than forcing a marginalized person to be silent about their oppression. You, of all people, should know that Dr. Adjunct.
>>2576397based actual communism understander in this barren hellscape
>>2576418The other irony is that the elephant in the room IS trauma, but the issue is that many people self-diagnose with C-PTSD because they conflate any impression of subjective trauma whatsoever with C-PTSD, even though C-PTSD has discrete biophysical markers in terms of the effect it has on the permanent alteration of your brain structure. I have been formally diagnosed with C-PTSD and I can attest that the nature of it is crippling enough at times that there's a very stark contrast between the histrionic PMC zoomer types claiming to have it and those who really bear the burden of having it. The upsetting and disappointing thing is that when there's an oversaturation of people making this conflation, those who really suffer from the condition are overlooked or assumed to be just like all the rest, when that couldn't be further from the case. I don't believe that we should put the cart before the horse in individualizing the priority of generational trauma, but I do think that a proper communist politics will, in a downstream sense, naturally sublate away some of the sociopolitical barriers which hamstring the people who are authentically suffering. From each according to his ability, to each according to their need… and potentially, these attributes can change in the context of a less atomized/alienated society which is more focused on resources of empowerment.
>>2576422I should add that were it not for my condition and my life's unusual history, I never would have formed any of the political and philosophical positions I hold. I probably would have just ended up like any other autistic 4chan midwit, largely devoid of empathy and overly-technically focused; a perfectly obsequious lapdog to the system. To fall at an internal, ontological level is to see the side of the world that the rest of so-called polite society loves nothing more than to repress and gaslight over, i.e. it is to see the ugly, unjust truth and confront it, to recognize the real conditionality of the proletariat as a point of subjective divestment which overcomes itself in an eschatological way.
>>2576339That's a complicated question with different answers depending on which theorist you consult. Zizek would define it as a topological cut, or a circuitous gap in the process of subjectivity, endemic to the essence of reality itself–the insufficiency of being is alienation, but the problem with capitalism is that it *sells you back the premise of your alienation as comfort*, which in turn distorts the nature of one's relationship to their ever-self-defining (existential) self. This is not the same thing as a kind of prefigured authentic identity taken absolutely. Capitalism's alienation is a particular modal failure which circumvents the issue of confrontation with the void by packaging the void as though it represents fulfillment. Or at least, this is the continental goobeldy-gook approximation of what alienation is, anyways.
>>2576422I don't see the issue with self-diagnosis even when it comes to C-PTSD. Self-identification is always first when it comes to affirmation.
>>2576430Sure, but my point is simply that C-PTSD is a real thing which can be empirically identified based on physiological symptoms, and which can be located in the brain through assessing the structural changes primarily impacted in the Thalamus and the Amagdyla. The reason I bring that up is because the original naysayer kind of came off as fundamentally skeptical of the concept altogether, not just the 'issue' of self-diagnosis. It would be funny to instill this condition in anyone who thinks C-PTSD is illegitimate (even for something temporary, like a month), and try sleeping during a bad flareup of it. They can enjoy their multiple days of zero sleep and their occasional nights of a few shitty hours, feeling the grateful relief of a decent night of rest only very occasionally. Of course, we don't even need to be neurological reductionists, because the host of subjective effects which come with the condition are their own 'fun' can of worms… And hey, that's just the tip of the iceberg ;).
>>2576418>>2576422So you two believe that appealing to trauma is the way to socialism?
>>2576438No, that wasn't what I said at all.
I'll just quote what I already wrote so you can reread it, I guess. My point is simply to acknowledge its existence and not try to admonish people for being in possession of it. That doesn't necessitate some kind of capitulation to it or a primary centering of it. I explicitly made a point which suggest otherwise already.
As stated,
"I do think that a proper communist politics will, *in a downstream sense*, naturally sublate away some of the sociopolitical barriers which hamstring the people who are authentically suffering. From each according to his ability, to each according to their need… and potentially, these attributes can change in the context of a less atomized/alienated society which is more focused on resources of empowerment."
(emphasis on 'in a downstream sense')
>>2576441*not to try and admonish people, typo mb it's late
>>2576441Oh, and my other point was meant to suggest that not all trauma is qualitatively the same. There's a large, qualitative/categorical difference between histrionic people who are trying to leverage their trauma and people who are medically afflicted with C-PTSD.
>>2576443(This is because C-PTSD is a medical condition which occurs as a neurological *reaction* to trauma, it isn't trauma itself, it's what happens inside of the body of people who are particularly effected, usually due to exceptional severity of circumstance and maybe some kind of sensitive predisposition, although that latter point is speculative.)
>>2576430All these disorders have become commodified. Younger people like to collect them like Pokemon cards. I have been diagnosed with mental disorders by medical professionals, I keep it private. Then when I go check my local DSA everyone under 25 is talking about all the self diagnosed disorders they have, how they are have some eccentric sexual orientation, gender identity that I never heard of.
>>2574004>o why can't the DSA bring in those frustrated zoomers from TikTokbecause they do democratic party entrying which results in even well meaning people jining eventually being consumed by the machine, you think a well meaning candidate can compete with the billionaire backed party structure? there needs to be something independent pushing back against the structure not something that is consumed by it
anyways death to amerikkka the great satan
>>2576585
2nd half you were spot on, 1st half the most retarded shit I've seen.
Left coms fuck up organizing too much
>>2576418How do you organize people based on their trauma?
>>2576585
That's just spending energy on playing with semantics like it means anything. Differentiating ourselves from liberals is meaningful, but there comes a point where you're just splitting hairs over minutiae in a way that working people could not give a sick fuck about.
>>2576441You and the other guy derailing the thread with retarded nonsense proves that the the mentor millenial was completely right and the "Sallys" of the world have no place in Marxist study groups because they inevitably make everything about themselves and their trauma
>>2576418>turn le marxist study group into a safespace to traumadump about the time my uncle touched me!!kill yourself
>>2577495>>2577496To be fair, CSA survivors seem to be over represented in leftist spaces. Go to any anarchist space and you'll notice about 2/3rds of the AFAB people there are survivors of sexual assault.
>>2574004>My question is, why haven't any communist or socialist parties been able to gather these types of people up?because the essence of your opening quote is petty bourgeois individualism, not proletarian class consciousness. Next question.
>>2576441How do you create a political program to end CSA?
>>2578183You raise the age of consent to 25, obviously.
A lot of these youth are simply NEETs living with their parents and hoping that /something/ happens before their parents inevitably die. Sad but true
>>2578247Well that’s also autism. Most autistic adults still live with their parents and are hoping and praying an adequate welfare state gets established before their parents get too old and become disabled themselves.
>>2578247Come 2028, they will all vote Democrat. All of them. The idpol nonsense that you see on social media doesn’t lead to anything revolutionary even in the intellectual realm. All the trans and autistic people will be voting Democrat and supporting the Democrats regardless of what kind of rhetoric they use on social media.
>>2578506>All the trans and autistic people will be voting Democrat and supporting the DemocratsGet off twitter and actually interact with untwitterized trans people. They're less likely to believe in voting than the average poster here.
>>2578601>They're less likely to believe in voting than the average poster here.if only. like sure most trans people are proletarian bc of shit like getting kicked out of their parents house but not all of them are
>>2578247>>2578320yeah well welfare has nothing to do with communism
>>2578601 everyone is still gonna vote Democrat because 3 years is not enough time to establish a workers party that can get to that stage.
Maybe some local elections some small socialist parties can get but that's where you start.
>>2575810Any idiot with a discord account or a minecraft server can "create community", and they'll doubtless create a more meaningful one than "small circle of historical losers licking their wounds over world-historic organizing blunders, relitigating debates from 20 years ago over and over and over again, pausing only for the occasional funeral"
>>25758242017 called and wants their take back
Pretty much every idpol stereotype group has drifted leftwards to class-based demands, even if they're naturally still focused on how it benefits their group specifically. The girlboss feminist has been dead for longer than she was alive, and so far as she and all the other idpol bogeymen were ever alive, their existence is the product of capitalists responding to bottom-up pressure for social justice rather than applying top-down machinations of their own free will. A university does land acknowledgements because it's cheaper than giving the land back, yes, but it also does them
because someone is demanding they do something. One winds up with a very wrongheaded view of the world if they misinterpret (largely failed) co-option for creation.
(And because it failed, you see the present administrative backlash against all these groups! They gave the proles some carrot stickers for their laptop, that wasn't enough, now they're going to try and beat them down with the stick until they remember their place.)
>>2576279More than half of Americans have an associates degree or higher, and nearly 40% have a bachelors or higher. This gets even more aggressive as you account for age.
And America's on the lower end. Having a degree is incredibly common thanks to the massive expansion of higher education to cover up youth unemployment, and one of the markers of the fundamental unseriousness of the "serious" left is that they continue to fetishise the aesthetic of the high-school educated factory worker in an economy which has made that stereotype about as relevant as the cowboy.
Indeed, since being more educated generally correlates with being more left-wing, one should see ominous tidings in America's declining university enrolment and UK plans to smash one of their few remaining internationally competitive sectors… >>2578183Pay reparations to CSA survivors.
Social media has normalized self-righteousness and turning your entire personality into a brand centring around “I’M SUCH A MORAL PERSON”. Don’t bother with recruiting the self-righteous do-nothings.
>>2575163Autistic people disproportionately make up the radical left in AMERICA because radical leftist ideologies like Marxism and anarchism are still considered niche/novelty. You rarely see autistic leftists in other countries, even in Europe, because radical leftist thought is much more accepted by the general population.
>>2576418>let’s ignore class/race analysis and focus entirely on TRAUMAYou are not a comrade.
>>2581920That, and communists/anarchists in America know they’re largely LARPing whereas communists and anarchists in Europe and LatAm know they’re involved in real, living movements that have potential to come to fruition.
>>2581923
Pretty much.
The Communists I know are far less socially autistic then the "leftists"
You have to read decent bit as a communist and be able to understand and articulate concepts so it helps weed out those unserious.
To be a "leftist" you literally don't have to do any work. Just grab a pink and blue flag, pop some estrogen, and join a polycule.
>>2581925Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
British anarchists are not LARPing?
Also are there any anarchists in South America? since it's a deeply unserious concept that focuses on individualism I can't see it existing outside of The West
>>2581942There are very active anarchist groups in Chile and Argentina.
>>2581952>ArgentinaI'm not talking about ancaps
>>2575163>I know they’re capable of so much more, they just refuse to engage because their intellect and attention spans are so short. As cliche as this sounds, a lot of this can blamed on a combination of a failing education system, and the internet. Especially the internet. I'm at the point where I think if the internet disappeared it would be a massive benefit to these people, as would banning smartphones.
>>2581920>radical leftist ideologies like Marxism and anarchism are still considered niche/noveltyThere seems be this push to keep it that way. It takes the form of American communists/anarchists going out of the way to be as repulsive and off-putting to possible to normies.
>>2575163> All I hear are stories about how Sally is a CSA survivor who was molested by her stepfather at age eight and can’t work a regular job due to her CPTSD, or how Timmy has all sorts of religious trauma from growing up in an Evangelical household.You engage with their problems. I recommend Sally Engels on the origin of the family
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/index.htm , also Angela Davis
https://www.marxists.org/subject/women/authors/davis-angela/housework.htm , also Harry Braverman's "Labor and Monopoly Capital".
IDK enough about Marxist analysis of religion and Evangelical Christianity. I know there's a few books on how big business created the religious right and more than a few works on ideology.
> They can't readGive them Socialism for All / S4A ☭ Intensify Class Struggle
https://on.soundcloud.com/EbE1vSOrchDfe8QxTs and other resources.
> a thousand mental illnessesI recommend Robert Chapman's "Empire of Normality". I've also heard good things about Althusser and Bruce Cohen's "Psychiatric Hegemony". I also recommend Vierkant and Adler-Bolton's "Health Communism: A Surplus Manifesto". There's actually some fairly good work on Marxism and disability.
>>2581993I forgot also that plenty of work on the reserve industrial army and the lumpen is very relevant to capitalism. I strongly recommend looking into Black Marxist work as well. One article I particularly like is Eldridge Cleaver's "On Lumpen Ideology". IDK I liked some Maoist work on the lumpen even though I find their analysis of the Western labor aristocracy and the family lacking.
>>2581984Part of me wonders if this is why there are so many t girls in the western left. They all couldn't get laid so they became girls to bang other t girls. Shit if I was younger and didn't stumble onto pussy I probably would have too.
>>2581965I blame TikTok, Instagram, and Twitter. ESPECIALLY Twitter because it was the start of short form content outpacing longer content.
>>2581993>I recommend Sally Engels on the origin of the family>also Harry Braverman's "Labor and Monopoly Capital".Why?
>I recommend Robert Chapman's "Empire of Normality". I've also heard good things about Althusser and Bruce Cohen's "Psychiatric Hegemony". I also recommend Vierkant and Adler-Bolton's "Health Communism: A Surplus Manifesto". There's actually some fairly good work on Marxism and disability.How does solve the problem?
>>2575163>This is a Franken-left. I won’t even call it a “left”.Literally every generation says this. Old Left comrades like the ones who participated in CPUSA in its heyday and who went to jail during McCarthyism hated the 60s/boomer New Left. Those same boomers who were active in the New Left all hated the Gen X/xennial left from the 90s. Gen X/xennial leftists who participated in the anti-globalization movement all mocked millennial leftists for being too sensitive about feminist and queer issues. Now millennial leftists like you cry about zoomer leftists being too sensitive to neurodivergent issues and issues regarding generational trauma. This is the SAME SHIT in every generation. "Why isn't the left the way it was when I was 21?" BECAUSE MATERIAL CONDITIONS CHANGE YOU FUCKING MORON.
You know how when conservatives are asked what period in US history they consider to be the "good old days" they always point to the time when they were 10? Aging leftists like you are no different. When asked about when you think the left was good you'll always point to the time when you were in college and ask why the new generation of college students doesn't believe what you believed when you were their age. This isn't hard to see.
>>2581993How are any of these texts relevant to someone who was molested by her stepfather and has crippling PTSD because of it?
>>2575163Would be interesting to understand why Gen Z is so obsessed with trauma.
>>2582232>>2582235I think these people would be interested in the structural origins of misogyny and saneism.
>>2582523If they can’t read why would you bother teaching them those books?
>>2581993>>2582523The problem is, how are these texts of any use when most of the students I mentor can barely grasp basic Marxist philosophy and method? If you can’t read and fully understand Marx what’s the point of reading Foucault (who is actually very anti-Marxist)?
Spend a day at my study group and you’ll see what I mean.
>>2582269Trauma has become a license/authority-granting characteristic like identity.
>>2582942That’s exactly what I see. But I would say it’s just another part of the primacy of personal experience over genuine intellect. People think their identity or trauma or personal experiences should mean more than a comprehensive analysis. That’s dangerous.
>>2574004What the fuck is this thread man. Communism isn’t an identity for the mentally ill, a phase for teens or a hobby. It's not fucking therapy,
and turning vulnerable people, miserable teens or trans folks looking for answers into recruitment targets is gross. Stop treating this like an emotional escape hatch.
A lot of these deeply held beliefs are just trauma or loneliness cosplaying as politics. Terminally online teens are basically decorating a void for clout and community. When that community dries up, they just swap ideologies like we constantly see on Twitter, for example. Communism becomes a social pose, not a critique of capital. Positions are just badges to wear. Analysis gets replaced with moral theater.
>>2582963When I was a kid we had emo, punk, goth. The idea of turning autism or CPTSD into an identity club was absurd.
>>2574004gather them to do what exactly
>>2582963I've only become
more miserable since becoming a communist. It's the whole "if you only knew how bad things really are" meme.
>>2582719>>2582912I posted the Socialism 4 All SoundCloud. Also none of the texts I suggested are related to Foucault. "Labor and Monopoly Capital" is really the only big tome anyhow.
>>2582269>>2582942>>2582951Social media and the cultural dynamics that have sprung from it are largely to blame. Your identity is your brand and has to compete with everyone else's brand. People become hyper-fixated on themselves as individuals. Plus, social media causes people to be scrutinized by hundreds of others whom they never met, so there's an impetus to appear like an innocent victim as a way of shielding yourself from scrutiny and gathering up pity/sympathy from others. It's a giant dopamine rush, basically.
The problem is, this spills over into the political realm and everyone starts basing their politics on trauma or some other part of their brand regardless if it has any practicality for political struggle.
>>2582963this is true, but even non-traumatized non-teens "communism" is like this. the average /leftypol/ user is doing exactly the same thing except instead of an approximation of emotional honesty, they bring the idiocy of indulging in social poses on an anonymous board.
which most anonymous board users do in one form or another, but idiocy is idiocy.>>2583261the flip side of this is that communism is a great brand for marketing. edgy enough that it shows you're not totally uncool, but fundamentally concerned with human dignity in a way that avoids the "i am obviously evil and enjoy human suffering" tendencies of even the center-right.
but for social media socialism and communism would be deader than ever. the "serious" socialists and communists of the west are the
worst of the bunch.
>>2581920I wish autists could go back to being punks or goths or whatever and leave communism to serious activists.
>>2583368
>The Left today is simply not a political movement, it's a counter-culture the same as punk or scene kids or whatever, and it's filled to the brim with mentally ill autists and BPDs, who again, if actual proper subcultures still existed, would simply be squat crust punks or Scene kids or whatever.
>Because AESTHETIC leftist politics is the "counter-culture" they gravitate to the left and turn the entire left into their self-help group.
>This is why the entire left these days is obsessed with LGBT, Choo Choo, "Trauma" shit over everything else, because these people are literally using the left as basically a Autism/BPD self-help group.
If America had a legitimate leftist party all those autists would leave the left since leftism would lose its edgy connotations.
>>2583373
You're a little freak yourself with all your internet lingo, obscure streamer party knowledge and reactionary bile ain't you
>>2583373the ACP are a bigger gaggle of freaks than the average 'wokescold', the very fact they have to
try to do normie shit underscores that they aren't normies. freaks pretending to be normal are much stranger than freaks who embrace their role as freaks.
>>2583380why? "serious activists" in the west have achieved less than nothing in the last 100+ years, while purely aesthetic leftism has at least secured widespread endorsement of the term amongst people under 40. i mean, we're at the point where occupy is held up as a
high point.
>>2583368>>2583384These autistics and BPDs don't want to take power. They see leftism merely as a way of critiquing the current power structure with the end goal of implementing a few social democratic reforms (free money for autistic/disabled people or something, for instance). They couldn't care less about establishing a DoP so they never take organizing seriously.
>>2583386>purely aesthetic leftism has at least secured widespread endorsement of the term amongst people under 40.Found the liberal LARPer.
>>2583373
People hate the ACP because they are a bunch of right-wingers pretending to be leftists in order to try to trojan horse fascism into it. They are a bunch of terminally online idiots pretending to be a movement who pretend to be "Manly Men" for clout. Haz admitted to being more inspired by Dugin and Heidegger than Marx.
>>2583391
>you'll find i'm probably the person who LEAST talks about online stuff becaue I'm from old 2004 "Hide your powerlevel" 4chan.
I guarantee you people you interact with find you weird, you're fucking delusional lol
>>2583387Call me a liberal if you want, but I draw the line at LARPer. Every line of serious work that I have written since 2016 has been written, directly or indirectly, against LARPing and for practical action, as I understand it.
You chide "autistics and BPDs" for "never tak[ing] organizing seriously" but tell me: who is really taking organizing seriously? name names. Having a party that puts out inane "demands" on behalf of a working class that doesn't know it exists and wouldn't follow it if they did is not "serious" organizing, it is LARPing, it is self-indulgence far worse than anything a mentally ill weirdo on twitter could conjure. Seriousness requires being oriented around practical action, not around duplicating the structure of your favorite foreign/historical communist party in different conditions so that
you, the true
alid of Marx, can be general secretary and set the line.
>>2583391You are falling into an aesthetic trap, transhistorically imagining miners as normal people and service workers with blue hair as weirdoes. You take no account of age, no account of how little people care if you have dangerhair and piercings, no account of how little these aesthetic things matter in a world where we barely bother with subcultural uniforms. If you have your revolution, it is going to look ridiculous. We are living in a ridiculous age. Even then: you ignore just how demonized the miners were, or how much class spite exists in these isles. They look nice and normal in your 40 year old photos, sure, but that doesn't mean a British normie circa 1984 is going to see them as anything other than uppity communist scum.
With that said: The organized Labour left were a gaggle of liberals and cowards dogmatically opposed to communism, barely interested in socialism, and only briefly flirting with social democracy in the face of the 1970s energy crisis. The miners were fighting to save a dying industry* and, at a push, to get Labour's 1974 manifesto implemented. Not to bring about Soviet power.
You are living in the aftermath of their caution, their excess, and their blundering love for one of the world's shittest "social democratic for 25 minutes" parties. It is harsh: their complete and utter failure is so terribly romantic, but it was a failure.
* Although the government shuttered the industry much too quickly for reasons of class warfare, the
realistic best case scenario for a miner's victory is that they stop hiring people, slowly run down existing pits, and close them once most of the employees have retired. This would've been much more economically efficient - but that's it! That's what they'd get - there's an NUM-endorsed economic report to this effect - and
I'm the liberal!
p.s. read "the rise and fall of the british nation" by david edgerton
>>2583373
>they try to dress nice and work out and do normie shit
Yes it's totally that and not the fact people have issues with ACP because it's a LaRouchite grift cult who are freaks in their own right. Hell they're a mirror image of, as you put it, the freakazoids who dominate the American left.
>>2583373
The persecution fetish in the west is so insane.
Individualism has gone to far with these people. Just trying to be weird for weirdness sake. They never think about helping others just how many points they can get in the trauma/oppression olympics
>>2583368
Most based shit I've read here in a while
>>2583390You sound like a liberal.
Haz sucks and ACP has problem but they aren't fash anarkiddy
>>2574004>The DSA's entire strategy is simply economistic "healthcare and unions" babble that they weaponize to push the Democrats further to the left. Yet we shouldn't forget that the millennial left (namely, the people who participated in the anti-war movement in the 2000s and Occupy in 2011-12) all folded into DSA by the end of the 2010s.The millennials are the largest generation now (they're larger than zoomers, one of the upsides of being born to the boomers of which there are SO MANY) so you might as well settle into our generational hegemony for the long term. Sorry I don't make the rules, that's science.
>>2575896>There’s no point to bring a leftist in America. The only thing you’ll achieve is moving the Democrats to a more slightly left position."The left" as I understand it has probably been a distinct minority in MOST societies for much of the time. I think it's more like a moral attitude and rarely are political movements left in all aspects. Also people may be left in many aspects but then also not on something else in particular. Or not in general but they are left on something in particular (re: healthcare in the U.S. of which there's a widespread desire for change). It's also only in their relative meanings that these terms make sense.
>Look at the queer community as an example: it started off as a radical, subversive subculture only to become a wing of the Democrats by 2015. How much longer before a transwoman becomes a notable Democratic congresswoman?There actually is one right now from Delaware who assumed office this year. Perhaps not that notable but still. Eh, I'm not sure the *point* for a lot of LGBT people was to be subversive for the sake of it. I think that has really been a minority of LGBT people, most of whom just want to live their lives and not be treated badly by the society.
>>2576553>Then when I go check my local DSA everyone under 25 is talking about all the self diagnosed disorders they have, how they are have some eccentric sexual orientation, gender identity that I never heard of.Yeah but you might start to turn into "old man yelling at clouds." Young people's identities tend to be in flux. They're trying to figure out who they are, and how to relate to society. They experiment more. This is also why "ideology hopping" is more common with them. It's not necessarily the case that people get more "conservative" as they get older, it's more that there's less volatility and their identities become more stable, like picking a home team, barring they don't experience a major life crisis of some kind or another.
>>2582234>Literally every generation says this. Old Left comrades like the ones who participated in CPUSA in its heyday and who went to jail during McCarthyism hated the 60s/boomer New Left. Oh yeah. BTW one thing that is obscured about the Trot-to-neocon pipeline is that it wasn't initially about foreign policy (as in 1950s/1960s) but domestic policy, and an aspect of it was horror by some of these old lefties at the New Left including identity-based activism which they felt culturally alienated from. (The overall number of these people is overstated but still) The foreign policy turn came later (70s/80s). Seriously don't be surprised to see some of these socially conservative communists railing about idpol mutate into Douglas Murray "defense of the west" neocon types in the future.
>>2583368>Other Early Millennial leftist here … Teenagers reading out of context adult gripes on Tumblr grew into it's own prevaling culture among Zoomers, who then went into academia and and Zoomer cultural spheres>>2583391>In fact IRL you'll find i'm probably the person who LEAST talks about online stuff becaue I'm from old 2004 "Hide your powerlevel" 4chan.You sound like a loser.
>I know how to talk to and work with Normies IRL and not trauma dump on them or talk about online shit to them lmao. But what do YOU have to offer to these young people? You're getting older, and you face a fork in the road where you can either fester in your (evidenly growing) bitterness about them, or you can drop that shit and actually serve your role as a middle-aged man who can be a guide or educator in some kind of way, while encouraging their own development and sense of self-respect. Which is what they really need. They need older people who can teach them things while also respecting them as creative, intelligent individuals.
Anecdotal story but awhile ago I was trying to organize volunteers to go help pull shifts on the picket lines at an auto plant. I wasn't very successful but one night rustled up a teenage zoomer (who I had never met) to come with me, where we filled a shift at one of the gates to the plant where the union sent the non-union volunteers. So I'm walking around in circles all night with this zoomer and some union guys, and it's 3:00 in the morning, and this zoomer girl is talking about how she felt like the kids at her high school (she had recently graduated) treated her badly because she was non-binary (or something). And I told her that it doesn't matter what those kids think because they're assholes and you're never going to see those kids again in your life anyways so fuck' em. An older union guy (probably in his 50s) was like "yeah love it or leave it, that's what I say!"
>>2583399>You take no account of age, no account of how little people care if you have dangerhair and piercings, no account of how little these aesthetic things matter in a world where we barely bother with subcultural uniforms.Boy that's true. Yeah I listen to industrial music (which came out of punk in the 1980s) and I'd listen to some interviews with Cevin Key from Skinny Puppy, and he'd be like "yeah the way we dressed back then in Vancouver could get our asses beat." But there are more people now with tattoos than not. What was considered edgy or somewhat dangerous or counter-cultural then has just been totally mainstream-ified.
>>2583970yes,being shocked that "radical" groups de-radicalize when their demands are met and most of them quit it entirely is something people here suffer from.
some people think the immigrants are based,the trans are based etc until capitalism absorb them,and then it's cope about "no but you see,they're gonna genocide them in the USA !" in a desesperate attempt to pick the flock back together to do what (you) really want.
We told you about identity politics bro.
>>2583974Neurodivergent and disabled idpol are probably the worst idpol since a huge amount of their agenda is offsetting science and historical progress.
>>2583974the fly in the ointment here is that their demands simply are not met. capital tried cheap tokenism and recuperation and when they didn't work, it moved immediately from the carrot to the stick.
all the worst idpol wreckers of 2016 wound up being more right than the average /leftypol/ user from the same era. the stereotypical SJWs tripped over their feet a few times but ultimately came around to a class-oriented position and now call themselves communists, while /leftypol/ is still deeply insecure that /pol/ might think they're woke. unwilling to analyze the actually-existing actions of capital because if you post the CIA's girlboss recruiting ad for the 100th time maybe
b-based? Trump will abolish them.
it's enough to make you think maybe the 2016'ers were right that we should kill all men.
>>2583974>yes,being shocked that "radical" groups de-radicalize when their demands are met and most of them quit it entirely is something people here suffer from.I mean, if you ask me, I don't think there's anything necessarily radical about the LGBT "agenda" (as some call it) which is mainly concerned about basic inclusion rights, wanting to live a dignified life. It's not a blow to my own self-esteem. Thing is, some Marxists also recognize that but they in fact moralize about it and engage in purity politics or treat it as some prop in an ideological battle rather than treating it in a more dispassionate way like a detective or scientist investigating social phenomena would. Like you might say LGBT causes and demands emerged from certain material conditions in developed capitalist economies in the latter half of the 20th century and then ask what changes would alter those conditions to satisfy it. They might "intersect" in some way in particular areas, like people discriminated on account of who they marry in employment is a labor rights issue at the end of the day, but one doesn't need to overstate it. Like, the core method of Marxism is supposed to be a science of society here, it's not a moral drama.
>>2583977Stop calling them neurodivergent and start calling them mentally ill. That's a start. With ableism just fall back on material conditions. "Sorry no Sally in the wheel chair can't be head of security for the rally, we need someone that can physically protect others"
>>2583997surely the head of security should be a dispassionate administrative figure, an ideal desk job for sally.
>>2575163This made a lot of people mad how accurate it is
>>2584003i'm more mad about the idea we should dissolve the proletariat and elect a new one. it's just circlejerking by equally dysfunctional 30-year-old teenage boys.
at least i don't use tiktok!! a generation that achieved nothing bitter at a generation that still has hope, which will at-worst waste their lives better than we ever did.
>>2583997>implying "mental illnesses" are realsure, developmental (autism) and neurological (epilepsy) disorders are oftentimes disabilities proper and should be accounted for, but most nosological entities understood as "mental illnesses" (such as major depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, the entire grouping of "personality disorders") are logical human reactions to the very concrete adverse material conditions they arise in, and "mysteriously" disappear (enter "remission" - a term that's not even fully applied when talking about "mental illness") when they change
>>2583999Could be, yeah. Depends on the state and training conditions I guess but outside of you yourself being physically assaulted, you're not allowed to put your hands on anyone as a private security guard. You don't have to be big and strong because you're really just a legal tripwire and walking phone to call the actual cops.
>>2583990> Abolition [Aufhebung] of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists.> > On what foundation is the present family, the bourgeois family, based? On capital, on private gain. In its completely developed form, this family exists only among the bourgeoisie. But this state of things finds its complement in the practical absence of the family among the proletarians, and in public prostitution.LGBT emancipation is a core plank of communism.
>>2584020Abolishing the nuclear family as a norm doesn’t imply homosexuality and transgender politics.
>>2584022Guess again gayboy
>>2584025NTA but there no reason why I can't live in a townhouse with extended family including my many wives
>>2583977To be fair, even a lot of disabled people are getting sick and tired of the "DON'T CURE THE DISABILITY, CURE SOCIETY" bullshit. Who under socialism would want to be disabled and lose out on enjoying life to the fullest in a system that works for everyone? It seems like a lot of disabled idpol is based on the idea that having a disability makes you "unique" and thus more marketable on social media. Plus, a socialist society would seek to cure debilitating conditions or use CRISPR to wipe out debilitating conditions entirely.
>>2583896Haz and his ilk literally are a LaRouchite grifter cult. Hell, Haz said himself that he was inspired by Heidegger and Dugin instead of Marx. They are literally fascists once again co-opting left-wing slogans and rhetoric to try to appear left -wing when they really are not.
>>2584413Haz is a very avowed reader of Marx, you're just lying. You can syncretize Heidegger with Marx, this is not at all unique to Haz.
>>2584413I've heard him quote Marx but never LaRouche.
>>2584014Yeah but you can block. Also we aren't talking actual private security were talking giving her a high vis vest and sticking her between your guys and the fascists.
Also if someone takes a swing at you you can defend yourself
>>2584424>if an influencer says he’s smart, he must be smartCome the fuck on
>>2575163Screencap worthy shit. This is like Holy Water against Western "leftists". Jesus I wish I could frame this forever.
>>2575163I'm a bit older than you and I kinda feel the same, a lot of young adults have their hearts in the right place but aren't diciplined enough to acheive anything. It's worth fighting for (and with) them since they
can be reached. I'm not arguing with my 70 year old dad for instance.
>>2584478straight up said he admires larouche btw.
>>2584424>Haz is a very avowed reader of Marx,that was struggling with basic theoretical points of what socialism is to make it into a post modernist garbage where everything is socialism if you believe it is if you believe or else you anglo boxxing it.
>You can syncretize Heidegger with Marx,why stop there ?, syncretize Misses and Marx as well, because mixing complete retarded opportunists with marx is completely valid.
>>2584703If the guy reads Heidegger and LaRouche he probably read Marx
>>2584720probably with his asshole if he agrees with either or, yes.
>>2584703LaRouche did some good shit. He was a very outspoken opponent to Zionism, that's why he is so demonized today.
>>2584755so is the /pol/itards bemoaning ZOG, being against something that you should be against does not mean good or your ally, just means your enemy has another enemy, none of Larouche's spergs in anyway can or is useful for socialism so why debase ourselves to some dumb cockroach that was in fact our enemy.
>>2584765
they were never against imperialism as they see it as based subjugation of inferiors, they are just against any perceived jewery controlling them, but thanks for the mask off moment.
>>2584761LaRouche was doing his thing years ago when it was a mortal sin to even look at the Zionist entity wrong.
>>2584777To take this lucky post even further I would say modern anti Zionism wouldn't exist without LaRouche.
He carried the torch before the internet came, when mass information (Hollywood, NYT) was all controlled by the Zionist entity.
He walked so everyone from Ms. Rachel to all of us here can run.
the zoomer slander so played out on this board, the self diagnosis as replacement for personality clique is def a thing but its literally just one clique you might as well say everyone below the age of 25 is scammer or stoner since those are also now cliques in high school/college
>>2584755>LaRouche did some good shit. He was a very outspoken opponent to ZionismArgumentum ad Zionism. Try again retard.
>>2584777>he's been doing it for hecking years,Larouche entire political deal is blaming others for the behaviour of the US, from brittain to israel, he completely denies the US is the main benefector of the abuses and violence they do, it is just americope.
>when it was a mortal sin to even look at the Zionist entity wrong.only if you were not a leftist, you know, an actual communist, that were against israel since PLO, but go on, the mentaly retard supporter of fascism is acktually the biggest antizionist evar.
>>2584779> would say modern anti Zionism wouldn't exist without LaRouche.completely delusional hazigger cope, he just did what monkeys from the right do and tried to steal something that existed before themselves and go "we wuz antizionists and shieeet", maoists were arming and training palestinians while Larouche was being a buttboy to right wing clowns wanting a political teat to suckle his grift from like his modern diciple haz.
it's incredible how these ACPickmes to the orange pedophile are mentally stunted.
>>2584779Anti-Zionism =/= anti-imperialism
There are white supremacists who are anti-Zionist yet support mass subjugation of non-whites.
>>2574004It's a totally liberal sentiment. They want their personal freedom of expression to not be impinged, but they aren't dealing at all with questions like why they want what they want, or how it impacts others. It's an individualist and unsystemic vision. If they wanted the freedom to shape society in order to shape themselves, that's beginning to be something illiberally left. That level of desire for power over society scares the hoes tho, it's not socially acceptable to want (even if it's "authentic" ;')).
Also isn't this basically outdated by now? There isn't much materially stopping anyone from being their authentic self, everything in capitalism is posed as a voluntary engagement. If you're restricted in the workplace, go somewhere else. If you're restricted by your religion, leave it. If you're restricted by your family, cut them off. Even though it's not true in aggregate, everything individually takes the form of voluntary relationships. This kind of critique is for children, since they're the only ones under that kind of control. As an adult this critique doesn't hold water anymore, and either the child who made the critique is satisfied with their adult freedoms, or moves on to a more systemic critique about the limits of their self-creation due to their environment (limited free time, public spaces, third spaces, limited funds to engage in available activities, and so on).
The adult critique i hear most often is "there's nothing going on/nothing to do here". That sums up the adult issue, which is one of an environment that's not enriching or accessible to working people. Life becomes meaningless when the only guarantee is that you can live to work. And even that is a privilege, because you can easily become unemployed and equally broke. The solution to this is only revolution, since reform is also inaccessible.
>>2584615Why? Again, this point needs to be hammered into the ground: This isn't the left a 37 year old knew 10-13 years ago.
Fine, but
what the fuck did the left they knew achieve? Really, I'm taking all answers here because the best I've got is the 15 minutes on 8/leftypol/ where a SocDem was pirate posting.
Which was more like 8 years ago, and really if you're fair about it, zoomer in-jokes are probably equally good if you're there in the discord enjoying the context instead of trapped in this shithole with 30 year olds undergoing a midlife crisis. >lust provoking image
<irrelevant time wasting question
>>2584950Zionism is arguably the visible consequence of imperialism we see today. Attacking Zionism is attacking imperialism
>>2584892le ornage man bad
>>2585751Huge assumptions here. Russia-Ukraine conflict is more important for anti-imperialism than Palestine.
>>2586046it might be more important for ending US hedgemony but its nowhere near as blatant and obvious as Israel.
>>2584802its just gonna get worse and continue to fracture the closest America has to a working class.
Imagine in 20 years dudes in their 40s refusing to do party work because of whatever obscure identity the assume
>>2574529>>2574752If you're looking to solve problems like those that autistic and queer people face, you have to build up orgs with people you actually like and are willing to work alongside long-term. That's how you get political leverage. So far, the autistic/neurodiversity and queer movements have largely been failures given how easily the Trump Administration could undo all the progress both groups have made within a matter of a year, because both of these movements don't have strong enough structures that they can effectively bite back.
>>2588290You would assume an autism diagnosis (even if it's self-diagnosed) would radicalize someone and make them more willing to be proactive. But from my experience it's been the exact opposite: as soon as a comrade finds out they're autistic they use autism as an excuse to not organize or attend meetings/study groups and decide to stay on the couch or in bed all day. Now you're seeing a whole trend of autistic leftists (all of them zoomers, shocking) who insist attending protests and marches is "dangerous" for autistic people and they should have permission to stay out of protests without scrutiny. Really makes me wonder what these kiddos will do during a general strike or some other kind of mass upheaval.
>>2589291Again though that's not about building socialism, that's about begging for concessions (treats) from piggy
If we really want to liberate autistic people we need a new system and they will have to fight for it and that requires picking up a book.
>>2589295It American individualismnat it's peak
>>2575163Congrats, you won leftypol.
>>2584703>heidegger>complete retardyes he was a nazi and thats bad that doesnt mean he is a retard
>>2588290>>2589295imho it won't get worse numerically speaking at least. I actually went to HS in the late 2010s and while there was def a clique of people who self diagnose in a failed attempt at self-actualization its not a particularity large group and one that doesn't grow with negative social capital. If they didn't treat medical conditions like astrology they'd just be into actual astrology nothing lost nothing gained from the perspective of organizing. granted there might be a big sample bias in the opposite direction of OP where I went to lower income public school followed by a public university with lots of economic scholarships and most of my current interactions with organizing are with unions and not my local yDSA so I don't really have to deal with the ABC theorist milieu alot or at all. I honestly don't know how the millenial anons managed to meet so many nintendo switch-pins on the backpack-picrew kids at the same time outside of a convention or theatre group. For every zoomer i've met that uses some random ass self diagnosed condition to not do shit theirs bare minimum 50 who got bills to pay and cant just not go to work cuz of anxiety or whatever the fuck.
Is the just be normal thread about this?
>>2575163Wait.. do you mean they do not need to work? At some point in life, I though everyone question labor and why so long, etc. If someone told me the work day could be 4 h/day, I would be happy. But just reading Marx or Lenin.. German ideology; Engels - The origin of family, money, .. that is just interesting. But imperialism… no. Not just that, it will not help them to organize for less work hours or anything.
>>2589620>Again though that's not about building socialism, that's about begging for concessions (treats) from piggyVibes based assessment. Most of these orgs are primarily concerned about building socialism, concessions are merely a rhetorical device, their inevitable revocation is the point.
>>2591804They aren't mutually exclusive though.
>>2589620you have theology masquerading as politics
>>2591955Hate to say it, but there’s a reason nearly all the “autistic and chronically ill” comrades you encounter are in their 20s and 30s. Largely because people with chronic illness AND autism on top of it don’t live for very long. Autism makes chronic illness worse though low needs autism doesn’t really impact lifespan much. But someone with fibromyalgia, lupus, etc. usually has a much shorter lifespan. All of these “I’M DISABLED!” types will probably die before they make it to 45.
>>2592327>Autism makes chronic illness worseThis sounds like bullshit. I don't see how autism could make physical issues worse by itself.
>>2592177thats what I'm saying
>>2592398you want people to read your magic book and follow your orthodoxy. your politics are not real politics at all, they are religion or they are fandom. (the distinction doesn't matter much here)
orthopraxy is all that matters, and in current conditions you don't need a book for that.
>>2592427Uyghur if you are building a bridge you need to know physics, so you have to read either Newton or people that reference the laws Newton discovered.
It's the same with socialism, you gotta read Marx or people that have read Marx and developed on the theories he discovered.
>>2592427Bad opinion, bad post.
>>2592447He's most definitely some sort of liberal. Probably an anarkiddy
>>2592427I'm not dogmatic, I follow dialectics. I literally just want them to read actual books. It can be Bakunin and Trotsky for all I care. We can discuss that atleast. Instead of "nurses are cops akshually" shit they find on tik tok
>>2592399Autism is a full-body experience. Autistic people are far more likely to have autoimmune diseases like lupus. Plus when you’re autistic you have a much harder time communicating pain to your doctor.
>>2592446You do not need to know physics to build a bridge. The Romans built aqueducts that lasted to this day without so much as the concept of zero.
What physics knowledge lets you do is optimise. A bridge that would once have been severely overbuilt can today be designed to become unsafe the moment the last PFI payment clears.
>>2592464>Autism is a full-body experienceLike a roller coaster?
>>2592490Fine let's pick something different,
Regardless to make some things you need the know the laws behind it. Socialism is no exception.
>>2592492It affects every part of the body. Look it up. Low muscle tone, bad posture, being much more prone to autoimmune disorders, being much more likely to die from covid or the flu. Why are you belittling this fact? Autism makes you much, much more vulnerable to medical issues.
>>2589295They self-diagnose because they think an autism diagnosis means they’re exempt from having to participate in the outside world. So many late-diagnosed and self-diagnosed autistics will say they went out of their way to seek a diagnosis or self-diagnose because they can’t handle capitalism anymore, and think an autism label means they’re now entitled to be an idle couch potato for eternity. It really makes me wonder how many of these people would want a diagnosis if we lived in a system that worked for the people and not billionaires.
>>2575163Wanting instant gratification is much more an ADHD thing than an autism thing.
>>2592499I just thought it made you good at math, bad with women, and a fondness for trains
>>2592629It’s way more than that and a lot of science is starting to prove it.
>>2592632I'm gonna make my girlfriend stop eating Tylenol now, I just wanted to bring Rainman to Vegas
>>2575222>The use of tone indicators have allowed me to be more sarcastic, and I've seen the same in others. It's revitalizing sarcasm, not killing it.neurotypicals don't want communicational metadata because they rely on a fundamentally dishonest style of communication which is a zero sum game for them and relies on a deliberately injected lack of clarity that they can always plausibly-retroactively-deny in order to attack you no matter which way you interpret them. If they say X and you think they mean A, you're wrong. If they say X and you think they mean B, you're also wrong. Lack of clarity allows them to construct games they always win. Look at how reactionaries always structure conversations this way. This is why they hate the autistic desire for clarity, and treat you as subhuman for wanting it.
I regularly witness how neurotypical children (and adults) do this to autistic children (and adults) in order to beat them down and rob them of confidence.
>>2575222>The use of tone indicators have allowed me to be more sarcastic, and I've seen the same in others. It's revitalizing sarcasm, not killing it.neurotypicals don't want communicational metadata because they rely on a fundamentally dishonest style of communication which is a zero sum game for them and relies on a deliberately injected lack of clarity that they can always plausibly-retroactively-deny in order to attack you no matter which way you interpret them. If they say X and you think they mean A, you're wrong. If they say X and you think they mean B, you're also wrong. Lack of clarity allows them to construct games they always win. Look at how reactionaries always structure conversations this way. This is why they hate the autistic desire for clarity, and treat you as subhuman for wanting it.
I regularly witness how neurotypical children (and adults) do this to autistic children (and adults) in order to beat them down and rob them of confidence.
>>2592512>It really makes me wonder how many of these people would want a diagnosis if we lived in a system that worked for the people and not billionaires.In a system that worked for people and not billionaires you would get health care.
>>2594173>>2594177The problem* with such metadata is that communication isn't always in such bad faith, sometimes it's a matter of style. An ambiguous message is often much more pleasing than an unambiguous one for one reason or another. (For example, a joke may be enhanced if the author's position relative to the subject is obfuscated - socdem gang was improved by clearly being a joke, yet having too much socdem knowledge to cleanly just be a communist having a laugh.) Or, of course, to exclude outsiders who don't share the in group's idiolect.
It can of course be abused for argumentative purposes, but that's a fundamental quality of language: open-ended unambiguous communication is impossible. Even highly formalized systems like air traffic control are still occasionally updated when a new ambiguity is found.
The upshot, and my *, is that you can play with tone indicators in exactly the same way. Slap a sarcasm indicator on a message best read straight, knowing your audience will know that's what you're doing…
>>2575163>was molested by her stepfather at age eight and can’t work a regular job due to her CPTSD>has all sorts of religious trauma from growing up in an Evangelical household.It's funny how true the Evangelical-childhood-to-angry-moralistic-leftist pipeline is. The amount of authoritarian tendencies in anarchists is extreme ("do exactly as I tell you and stay in line or else you're an evil person and fuck you"), and it's not surprising most of them grew up in authoritarian Christian households.
The "trauma-drama junkie" is a real thing. Basically, when you had trauma inflicted on you in your life you start to become addicted to that trauma and you seek out a new rush, so to say. Meaning, people who came out of authoritarian households will deliberately seek out drama with others because it fills them. Many times they'll enter relationships they know are rocky and guaranteed to fail but they like it that way, because the thrill of the relationship is in the trauma.
I find it weird how so many people in radical leftist circles were victims of pretty serious forms of trauma. You don't see that in most other places.
>>2594734>The "trauma-drama junkie" is a real thing.That's literally just CPTSD.
What is CPTSD vs PTSD?
>>2592456> Instead of "nurses are cops akshually" shit they find on tik tokRead Goffman or literally anything you faggot.
>>2594734>I find it weird how so many people in radical leftist circles were victims of pretty serious forms of trauma. You don't see that in most other places.You absolutely do, they're just not angry about it for whatever reason. Like that tradwife conservatard woman that married a wealthy husband only to leave him because the abuse was so bad. Even though her husband was clearly a bastard, everyone from her religious leader to her fellow tradwives to her trad followers blamed her not only for being abused, but the "sin" of abandoning her husband.
If anything, abuse is even more endemic on the right because it's full of people that believe it isn't abuse at all and will spend their lives defending that behavior to their dying breath.
>>2595426everyone is doing that, except rightists who get off on showing off their moral inferiority. (a far more bizarre pathology)
there's a reason most communist LARP parties have no serious plan to become politically relevant or get enough members to actually do anything, but they all take their
line very seriously. the line is what makes their theology, their orthodoxy, superior to all the other little would-be messiahs.
(but for that reason, not a bad recommendation.)
>>2594734I had a grad school friend from ages ago tell me this: anthropology is anarchist, sociology is Marxist, psychology is neoliberal capitalist.
What he meant by that is, psychology – especially in how it's taught now, with psychoanalysis being thrown out in favour of body-keeping-score bullshit – places the entire emphasis on the self. This is also why it's correct to be skeptical of neurodiversity politics since everything gets reduced to autism/ADHD/bipolar/C-PTSD rather than understanding human behaviour through the lens of class, race, gender, and such. I think it's correct to say that people who obsess over their own personal psychology are ultimately reactionary because they make everything about them and them alone as individuals. They won't take up things that are bigger than themselves and work for the team because they only care about resolving their own trauma and not forging a new world for everyone.
>>2596210>there's a reason most communist LARP parties have no serious plan to become politically relevant or get enough members to actually do anything, but they all take their line very seriously.Anarchists are 1000x worse about this. Literally the only reason people become anarchists is because they want to show off what a "strong sense of justice" they have without doing anything in terms of actions. Anarchism for them is simply a game of: "I'm more moral than you, so you now have to accept my authority and do as I say" (irony).
>>2596235if i am honest i think that vibes-based anarchists have the best politics of all people. they do not pretend to be engaged in any action more serious than spraypainting the anarchy sign on the local school, so they cannot be accused of failing to meet their own standards. they do not entertain ugly fantasies of harming others (as does the average revolutionary, secretly fantasizing about who'll be put up against the wall) or accept complicity in the failings of the status quo (as does the social democrat)
in a world where nobody does anything there's much to be said for the merits of this sort of moral cultivation. it's a cool answer to what you believe in that disavows the status quo without wedding you to defending past failures, and with a much higher acceptance of not really bothering to pretend to have read theory. it's not a serious politics, sure, but i respect it a lot and resent that i went down the rabbit hole of actually reading theory (an irreparable blunder) across several dead-end ideas before realizing that if i didn't want to waste my 20s i should've just said "it's fine: anarchy anarchy anarchy and for every other problem we'll do a reading circle with non-hierarchical consensus decision making." and then cultivated a real hobby. after all, it's not like my reading changed the world anyway.
>>2597235Americans politics are so right-wing that liberalism looks like radicalism to most people. Slap pink hair on any 20-something woman and people immediately assume she’s a communist.
>>2597463>Today, an entire industry has spawned around the idea that everything is trauma. Once understood as the psyche’s confrontation with genuine catastrophe, trauma is now treated as a personal possession: something to be owned, narrated and curated by the individual.
>This drift marks the entrance point to a broader cultural shift: the commodification of pain.
>It is evident on #TraumaTok, where across more than 650,000 posts creators variously rant, weep and recast traits as symptoms – “Perfectionist? It’s your trauma!” – to great algorithmic reward.…
>Trauma, which once invoked a shattering incident, is now found in the unavoidable abrasions of ordinary life. It is implicated in procrastination, occupational malaise, and listless attachments. It is the reason we are “bad at relationships”; it is why we nap too much; it is the antecedent to our compulsive binging of Friends.
>As a result, trauma has been rendered meaningless. Or as psychiatrist Arash Javanbakht told me: “When everything is trauma, nothing is.”….
>Once cloaked in shame, trauma has shifted from “stigmatizing to romanticizing”, Javanbakht said. It is the modern hero’s journey, facilitated by a booming marketplace and algorithms that reward the recitation of our misery.
>In our secular age, the excavating of our pain for public consumption has replaced the descent into the underworld and the voyages of peril and bravery. The hero is not Odysseus or Orpheus, but the survivor who finds courage to tell their tale, and what was once tragedy has become a product.…..
>Contreras sees in this trend a certain level of entitlement, in which the individual, through publicly confessing their story, in effect inures themself from any criticism. It offers the stamp of validation, while also providing “an easy way out of how difficult life has become”.….
>Javanbakht’s comments track with observations from the social sciences. In their pointed critique, The Empire of Trauma, anthropologist Didier Fassin and psychiatrist Richard Rechtman argue that trauma has moved beyond a medical or psychological diagnosis to become a moral and political category.
>“Trauma,” they write, “has become the privileged idiom through which individual and collective suffering is expressed, acknowledged, and governed.” As a moral category, it determines who deserves both resources and compassion. To be recognized as traumatized is to claim a ticket to legitimacy. >>2597467>>“Trauma,” they write, “has become the privileged idiom through which individual and collective suffering is expressed, acknowledged, and governed.” As a moral category, it determines who deserves both resources and compassion. To be recognized as traumatized is to claim a ticket to legitimacy.This is literally Israel.
>>2597463Bourgeois propaganda
>>2597486Written by bourgeois press.
>>2597488Can you debunk or make a legitimate criticism of the article's contents? Or do you just mindlessly write-off anything from the "bourgeois" press?
>>2576422I thought the defining feature of CPTSD and what makes it different from regular PTSD is that CPTSD is when the trauma endured completely fucks with your sense of self to the point where you don't even know who you are anymore.
>>2595426Virtuous victimhood as a dark triad trait has been rampant on the left for a long time, I mean, before modern Leftist politics it was Christians doing it.
What makes the left so susceptible to it though is Leftists struggle to create boundaries and much of modern Leftism is really just a Christian moralist movement based around oppression olympics rather than a Materialist class movement. You see this a lot on leftypol where it's the job of Leftists to "feed the oppressed" and "hold up the downtrodden" and it's like, what the fuck? No it isn't, the Left is an economic movement around building a more efficent economy due to Capitalist Contradiction leading to Economic inefficiencies which lead to inter-class materialist warfare which fucks everyone in the long term. Socialism should be amoralistic, but everyone can't help to turn it into religion.
Because of this, crazy ass BPDs rock up? You can't hold them to account because ableism, have Disabled wreckers? Can't criticize them because ableism, transhumanists? Can't criticize their rampant misogyny and homophobia and incoherent narcissistic bullshit because they are (western postmodernist manufactured) minority, can't criticize lumpen black culture because minority, can't criticize lumpen islamic culture because ""minority"" etc.
Notice real Socialist countries had no problem throwing Minority Lumpens in prison or asylums, throwing BPDs and Narcs into asylums etc. Because they're not running a moralist system, but a real pragmatic system.
Cluster B's are attracted like flies to shit when it comes to sniffing out people and groups that can't maintain boundaries or engage in constant oppression olympics and trauma bonding, and this means the Left gets awash with thin skinned splitting Cluster B types who use the left for narcissistic supply.
>>2594734Anarchism is basically the political movement of Borderline Personality Disorder unironically. Being an Anarkiddie is basically one of my wee woo red flags for BPD. Every squat I've been too has literally just been a BPD hive.
>>2583985They're not Communists lmao. They wreck everything they touch. They are "Communist" because they attach themselves to movements to ladder climb.
Look at Chile, just elected in the most right wing President since Pinochet, literally because Wokies could not stop wrecking the Government and Constitution.
>>2597520How did insane asylums work in the USSR?
>>2597520Most asinine form of disability wrecker: "WELL AKSHUALLY not everyone can be a militant because some of us are disabled and we would DIE in a violent revolution!!! Reformism all the way!"
>>2594734>The "trauma-drama junkie" is a real thing. Basically, when you had trauma inflicted on you in your life you start to become addicted to that trauma and you seek out a new rush, so to say. Meaning, people who came out of authoritarian households will deliberately seek out drama with others because it fills them. Many times they'll enter relationships they know are rocky and guaranteed to fail but they like it that way, because the thrill of the relationship is in the trauma.Could also be the case that people feel they'll start losing their friends and support networks if they start getting better, since their friendships are ultimately based on sympathy. Once they start to heal and move on from their trauma they'll lose the sympathy others give them.
>>2597579As someone who is actually truly traumatized (psychopath father etc) normal love and affection feels weird to me. The way normal people express their attachments and communicate positive emotions to each other is so alien. If I have a partner that actually likes me, it feels gross.
I know that the only way to solve these issues is to accept I can only probably fix 50% of each, and just live my life as a jaded fucker. And I know that the only solution to any of this is through collective means and general socialization of my very being as much as I can muster. We're a social species. One-on-one therapy doesn't do shit, you just have to get out there and integrate and accept that what the "normies" are doing with their emotions is healthy and rational, and I'm not special just because I haven't had the chance to learn it yet.
>>2597520>literally because Wokies could not stop wrecking the Government and ConstitutionI am not going to pretend to be a subject matter expert on Chile, but since I am a subject matter expert on elections.
1. Chile appears to have switched bloc at elections each presidency at each election since 1993. It would seem to me over-explaining to blame any specific set of actions for this regular pattern being maintained.
2. The right, both regionally and internationally, has been radicalizing itself. You will of course blame the left for this, but that's cope.
3. I'm glad to know that TRUE communists support the constitution drawn up by comrade Pinochet lol.
As to your wider paragraph, you're just plain wrong. The left is very good at creating boundaries. All the things you rail against
are boundaries set to exclude you. I make this point pretty much every time we converse: between the worst excesses of woke and you, you are much more annoying. It doesn't matter if I'm wrong here - let's say you're not annoying and woke is very annoying. Fine, you've just mirrored the thing, you've still got two groups and I still know where I stand. The filter works!
It doesn't matter whether it's communists inventing spurious theoretical differences, /leftypol/ clearly pining for the love of its (material) imageboard ingroup rather than its (theoretical) leftist ingroup, or indeed your own disdain for much of the actually-existing left, they're all the same thing: social groups filtering one another through recourse to nominal politics.
Everything is a religion nowadays, but as a material phenomenon most under heaven is in order. The vast majority of people under 35 are more left wing than they've ever been and you are negatively polarized against them - no loss, better that than living in the world where the vast majority of such people are indifferent but you feel welcome. Anyone committed to "an economic movement around building a more efficent economy" who can't mind their maners for the purposes of building such a movement is more invested in running their mouth than in getting results… and not even running their mouth in a way that raises their status, not even running their mouth
well!>>25975731. retards on twitter are hardly "wreckers"
2. is it really so hard to turn your brain on and go "ah, this random loser just wants to be personally validated and would probably melt if you said you'd fight so they didn't have to (which is a cheque which will never be cashed) so long as you didn't say it like that, since that sounds like a pick up line."
>>2597589I'd fight so you don't have to ;)
>>2597589>All the things you rail against are boundaries set to exclude you.What you mean like, actually having a functional left that cares about economics rather than a bunch of incoherent reactionary idpol?
I love how Leftypol literally has Anti-Idpol enshrined in the rules, but the mods and jannies have been taken over by rSocialism fucktards like yourself that consistently put insane idpol bullshit as purity tests over FUCKING ECONOMIC SOCIALISM.
"You're annoying"
Only because you Leftybritpol faggots cannot stand anything that goes against your t roon genocide narrative as you spout misogynistic bile and suck the dick of petite bougie elitists like Zack Polanski and toxic idpol schizos like Sultana.
>Chile appears to have switched bloc at elections each presidency at each election since 1993. It would seem to me over-explaining to blame any specific set of actions for this regular pattern being maintained. Boric's legitimacy was destroyed because wokies forced a bunch of incoherent, unworkable, vague idpol shit into the constitutional changes, this caused the entire thing to come crashing down and the entire left looking like total fucking retards. Woke bullshit destroyed any shot at very real class and economic rights.
It isn't just a "shifting bloc" this is the most right wing change since Pinochet.
>The vast majority of people under 35 are more left wing than they've ever been and you are negatively polarized against themLets see the gains of that? Oh wait, literally nothing lmao. Meanwhile the closest the left came to very real power in the west was both under Corbyn and 2016 Sanders, which were explicity class first programs.
>1. retards on twitter are hardly "wreckers"Look at how much wrecking went on in DSA ffs.
>>2597609NTA but just so you know, the left in america went through this little kerfuffle and we sorted it out because it turns out you can be "woke" (basic rights for lgtq and trans people) AND focus on economics. It's just a culture shock for other countries like yours that haven't gone through it yet.
Your left is libbing out a bit, but they'll figure it out like ours did. You're just behind a couple years. My advice to you is to work on synthesizing the new ideas that the people (who just happen to not be you) actually want included, into the broad left consciousness.
It's messy, and you're upset that it isn't strategic, but that's what happens sometimes when there's a big grassroots shift in mass political focus.
But it's not a psyop. It's a legitimate, emergent new consciousness that happens to have rainbow flags and shit. There are going to be a TON of libs (not socialists) trying to have their spin on it, and it's going to suck ass for a while. In the USA this was manifested in "if you don't vote for Hillary you're a fucking rapist misogynist" type shit. Schizo-feminism etc. But all that got sorted and now we're normal about it.
>>2597609>>2597621also can you actually list the woke idpol bullshit you're talking about? That could mean a lot of things lmao.
I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're just trying to be pragmatic here and upset because the order of operations were off as far as praxis to maintain power
>>259760995% of your time is spent railing against idpol rather than promoting economic socialism. The purpose of the anti-idpol rule is not to prevent /leftypol/ users tediously posting "trans rights are human rights" (the nature of the board works against that), it is to prevent pointless and derailing discussion of the sort you regularly promote. The anti-idpol rule annoys you because it correctly captures
your obsession with identity politics while allowing people to remain in-line with current social norms among young, sane people (e.g. not obsessively anti-transgender, not obsessively pro-transgender either, but certainly anti-anti transgender…)
You are not primarily focused on economic issues. I am always fair and honest, so if you were to take the sum total of my posts I think you'd find I'm much more
interested in sociology than economics. (Been there, done that, got nothing for it.) My posts almost certainly reflect that, and I'm happy to set that up against your anti-left obsessions any day. The "purity test" is not that you
believe these things, it is that you are
not capable of shutting up about your beliefs. In (say) the thread about whether deflation is good or not, I am capable of suppressing my urge to talk about the bizarre petit-bourgeois nature of that obsession and focusing purely on the economics of deflation. You, on the other hand, can't resist ranting and raving about completely irrelevant topics and obvious personal obsessions (yes yes, everyone is /r/socialism) to the detriment of any economic points you care to make. (Which for all the bluff and bluster, often seem to come back to "the 2017 Labour manifesto was good")
It's an aside, but: I suspect the datedness of your references is another reason you're excluded.
You can't keep up. All the specific nuances of the latest woke euphemism or buzzword or whatever pass you by instead of being understood intuitively, or at least by the third pass. If you can't even absorb that /r/socialism is a 2016-era bogeyman on /leftypol/ and run with something more modern, you're really going to struggle when woke decides it's colonialist to use British spellings except in 6 specifically designated cases where it's colonialist to use american ones. The whole thing is, quite possibly, just one big test for this kind of mental flexibility.
That I possess it, indeed, that I enjoy engaging in it, is an obvious reason I found myself sympathetic once I caught what the game was. Once you catch the motivations for someone's reasoning, it's easy to play along even when the specific words are obviously illogical.Corbyn, as a man, is the predecessor of everything you loathe and despise. His primarily economic program was a slightly enhanced version of Labour's laughably milquetoast 2015 manifesto (derided, correctly, as "vote Labour and win a microwave" and "Austerity lite"), what really perked things up is that he's a perennial activist. He is dispositionally the first person to show up at a rally for black disabled transgender victims of anti-BPD prejudice because he'll show up to
any rally that isn't about "sending them all back". Between maintaining interpersonal relationships and actually delivering on this (weak) economic program by purging the wreckers in the PLP, he chose personal relationships. Between standing his ground on the fake antisemitism crisis and bending the knee to the vague notion of centering Jewish voices (even as many of the voices weren't Jewish…) and trauma, he chose the latter. (something that most of "idpol" twitter regard as a massive mistake!)
What really punched up the 2017 campaign is that Corbyn was symbolically left-wing. His class-first coalition was, in a certain sense, no such thing. (Age was a much bigger dividing line than income or NRS social grade) In another sense, it was a harbinger of today's actually-existing class-first coalition. (Which is, as you won't accept, young and woke and works in occupations that the NRS pretends are middle class even at minimum wage because they don't involve going down t' pit.)
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/18384-how-britain-voted-2017-general-election>>2597621I've tried to explain this before but he's not going to take it. No, in his eyes Britain has the most advanced feminist movement in the world and Zarah Sultana is a deranged idpol wrecker of the left because she wants Your Party (long story) to advocate for mass nationalizations rather than the 2017 Labour manifesto and because she was rude to a transphobic landlord addicted to running his mouth on Twitter. (…not so long story)
It is good advice. It is the obvious way things have developed. It's not going to get through.
>>2597639>>2597621Holy effortpost and much respect. Wish I could write as well as you. I kneel
>>2597621>they'll figure it out like ours did.lmao so the 'left' in america is serious now? You still have no left, 'comrade'.
>>2574004Is there a higher resolution of OPs photo?
>>2597479If it’s wrong for Israel to weaponize trauma, why is it right for punk-haired grad students to weaponize their trauma?
>>2598190Pink haired autistic queers don’t commit genocide.
>>2598190if it's wrong for israel to communicate using words for propaganda purposes, why is it right for me to communicate using words to call you a fucking retard.
>>2598216
where did your empty head pick up the notion that these people are present in the US military in any notable number?
i get $25 if you say "this recruitment ad from the US military which i've decided to interpret as an honest reflection of their status as a diverse and tolerant employer with progressive social values because the US military would never lie about something like that in a desperate and but-for-me failed attempt to shore up their terrible reputation with the young people who hold such values", but you won't say that because lots of those words have more than one syllable.
>>2598315>Overall, as Table 1 shows, 5.8 percent (CI: 5.0–6.6) of HRBS respondents identified as LGB. This estimate falls between estimates for U.S. adults aged 18–64 years and for U.S. high school students, which is not surprising given the age profile of the military.>Among HRBS respondents, 0.6 percent (CI: 0.3–0.9) identified as transgender. The most-recent estimate in the U.S. adult population also found that 0.6 percent (credible interval: 0.4–1.0[5]) identified as transgender.the numbers for men are basically nothing of note (except the amusing datapoint that gays really do prefer the navy, it's just "LGB men are present in around the numbers in the general population") and the numbers for women are inherently subject to selection bias. ("normal" women very rarely join the military, hence the 84/16 split of male/female personnel.)
truthfully i'm surprised that the transgender numbers are 1:1 with the population share, even if the numbers are dated. my understanding was that it was a good trick to obtain access to healthcare.
>>2598190Ruining a DSA meeting is a bit different than blowing up children, and running a pedophil blackmail ring to support it.
>>2598429All those bi girls will date guys
I've said this before in my thread about Fukuyama,everyone today is a liberal, game over, every politics from now onward has to account for individual pluralism and ontology instead of just dimissing it
>>2597621Absolutely retarded bullshit. Imagine pretending the US is the vanguard of the Western Left. Wow, you elected one mayor in a hyper elite cosmopolitian city that isn't to the left of what already existed across numerous European/UK cities for a century. Such a vanguard for all of us to follow.
>>2597639More obtuse bullshit ignoring the fact that I only am ever RESPONDING to you /tttt/ losers constantly whining about how the UK is TERF hellhole and that Transgender shit should be the single purity test that proves people are Leftist, despite being antimaterialist reactionary horseshit, that you retards still can't deny because you always dodge any basic criticism of your insane cultish nonsense.
Reminder also that the general public, in every age group, is on my side. Not yours.
>You can't keep up. All the specific nuances of the latest woke euphemism or buzzword or whatever pass you by instead of being understood intuitively, or at least by the third pass. Lmao shut the fuck up dude. Imagine thinking that Idpol isn't still wrecking the left when it absolutely is. Of course you wokies are now "Actually it's so 2020, it's 2025 now and we're… still doing the exact same shit!"
>Corbyn, as a man, is the predecessor of everything you loathe and despise. His primarily economic program was a slightly enhanced version of Labour's laughably milquetoast 2015 manifesto Fine in my opinion, as I have said numerous times, the only point for electoral politics for the left is to get the left to actually fucking deal with the general public for once in their fucking lives.
>it was a harbinger of today's actually-existing class-first coalition. Ah yes, the "class first" coalition that centers it's core value around "Biological women don't exist".
>Zarah Sultana is a deranged idpol wrecker of the left because she wants Your Party (long story) to advocate for mass nationalizations rather than the 2017 Labour manifesto and because she was rude to a transphobic landlord addicted to running his mouth on Twitter.Being a disingenious faggot once again what's new. She's an idpol wrecker because she constantly pushes insane student politics tier Tik Tok narratives that makes everyone fucking cringe whenever she opens her mouth.
What's new though, Leftypol has been taken over by insane woketard Zoomers.
>>2599903Mods, permaban this anon for idpol cringe, NOW!
>>2599903Daily reminder that leftybritpol believe Zionists are worth marching with, over… the CPGB, CPGB-ML, The Workers Party and most major Socialist orgs in the country.
>>2599905Shut the fuck up you little thin skinned bitch. It's a fucking image board what the fuck is wrong with you losers.
>>2599908No, seriously, mods, ban this one right here! Hes been perpetrating this idpol cringe relentlessly for a long time.
Can trans comrades and terf comrades just live together? Like if you're trans some rando out there raging about it from a feminist/classical left perspective isn't gonna harm you , they're not fucking right wing politicians going around putting trans people into prison. And for TERFs i think rather than anger at transpeople themselves i think you guys are more angry at hyperonline people that never miss a chance to do kkkulture wars
>>2599908the socialist orgs in britain would rather march with the british supreme court and government against transhumanists than shut the fuck up on the issue and risk appealing to people under the age of 40.
and you would too, given you're citing data from "more in common", a starmerite think-tank who exist solely to argue that labour should reject "progressive activists" (e.g. young left wing people and - yes - milquetoast social liberals) and should instead focus on trying to win over hard-done-by working class patriotic landlords who curently vote reform but who'll definitely go labour if labour just announce total transhumanist death, comprehensive remigration for everyone outside Haplogroup R1b, and war with russia.
even then it slips out that they're the only group in britain that isn't entirely classcucked. forget a strike, the rest of britain draw the line at
an anonymous employee petition!
>>2599949in britain the odd situation has arisen that reform UK, the far-right party, accidentally announced a more trans-friendly policy than the governing (very much nominally)-socdem labour government. you can't make a clean distinction between TERFism and the people actually implementing policy. as our china-flagging friend will tell you, the reason that Britain is TERF island is because of our very advanced feminist movement
(consisting of upper-middle class newspaper columnists primarily seething that in 2012 serfs on twitter
talked back to them after they joked about ladyboys in a column, engaged in feminist activism on such important issues as "can a transwoman join a woman's birdwatching group?" and "it's finally time for the upper-class men's garrick club to let upper-class women join too")
this is just idpol whining about le cringe zoomers as if previous generations didn't hold responsability for the current state of things
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