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/PRC/ People's Republic of China 19
>The Estonian Ultimatum Edition
Original threads:
https://archive.ph/S2XYA
https://archive.ph/Ytckv

leftypol.org archives:
https://archive.is/https://leftypol.org/leftypol/res/30501.html

bunekrchan.xyz archives:
https://archive.is/https://bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/res/8925.html
https://archive.is/yrBUN
https://archive.is/pCecr
previous thread: >>2568462
553 posts and 113 image replies omitted.

>>2615574
>they have a proletariat oppressed by the bourgeois who are oppressed by the CPC

So, to you, a state is a thing unto itself ala >>2615585 This is wrong. State that oppresses bourgeoisie inevitably draws it's strength from some class - so which one is it?

>The CPC's party leadership has no material incentive to improve things for the Chinese people.


Yet they do. Curious

>It represents itself.


CPC is the third class? Yikes

>That has absolutely zero bearing on whether or not they're on the path to communism.


Socialism is economically superior to capitalism. As simple as.

>This is the only argument I can even slightly abide, but even then, it's the same retarded logic that democrats use to try to get leftists to vote for them.


China doesn't have democrat track record, though.

0 out of 5 correct arguments. Impressive


China is in phase D of capitalism as described by Engels in Anti-Duhring.

>>2615612
You'll get your first laugh eventually if you post it enough.

File: 1766904616160.webm (2.15 MB, 1280x720, 1766901300161803.webm)

Ogre

>>2615640
why are redditoids still banging on about this thing

>>2615640
I thought the Three Gorges Dam flood would conquer all of China. Kind of dissapointed in this subpar map painting

>>2615585
Read ᴉuᴉlossnW. That is, in fact, a very large part of what fascism attempts to do.

>>2615593
Let me flip it on you: why is it that when people want to defend China's communist status, the first thing they jump to is
>according to the constitution of the CPC, China is…

>>2615596
>[The] CPC is the third class?
If you want to be technical, they're bourgeois. State capitalism implies state bourgeois. But they're a different segment of the bourgeoisie than the non-stated bourgeois.
>Yikes
Erm, what the sigma? Epic fail! *Snap* I'm adding that to my cringe compilation! The cake is a lie!

>Socialism is economically superior to capitalism. As simple as.

If you mean a centralized economy, I broad-strokes agree. It's why China is so prosperous right now. But there's a difference between implementing socialist economics, and putting in place a system that will one day lead to the conditions for a classless, stateless society.

>>2615648
Redditoids need a map projection of what would happen if a terrorist cargo ship blocks Mississippi river's mouth. USA is much more vulnerable to infrastructure terrorism attacks than China is

>>2615652
>why do you people trust constitution?!?! Instead, you should trust our conspiracy theories!!!

Yeah, nah

>stated bourgeois oppresses non-stated bourgeoisie


You don't even understand what a bourgeoisie is, lmao

Besides, WHY would stated bourgeoisie side with proletariat against non-stated bourgeoisie? Like, where's class solidarity, which stated bourgeoisie of every other country on Earth is showing to it's non-stated brethren? What makes Chinese stated bourgeoisie so special, lol?

>Erm, what the sigma? Epic fail! *Snap* I'm adding that to my cringe compilation! The cake is a lie!


>But there's a difference between implementing socialist economics, and putting in place a system that will one day lead to the conditions for a classless, stateless society.


???????????

Deng's reforms (following Mao's own reforms) were in part focusing on expanding worker control over state companies. Corporate structure in SOEs is what they call it in the West, and pretend that this means SOEs were privatized

Now then, tell me that you hadn't read Stalin's >>2608976 last work before assassination and coup without telling me that explicitly

>>2615596
>Yet they do. Curious
Yes, as we all know, if the leadership of our centralized, top-down decides it wants to act in the worker's favor now, it will continue to do so indefinitely. That's why that country still exists to this day and is incredibly prosperous. Oh wait!

>>2615657
Thanks for the riveting contribution faggotron.

>>2615658
>>why do you people trust constitution?!? [sic] Instead, you should trust our conspiracy theories!!!
You should trust your own senses and mental faculties. China identifying as communist does not automatically make it communist.

>You don't even understand what a bourgeoisie is, lmao

Then explain it. Tell me why I'm wrong, not simply that I am.


>>2615670
>You should trust your own senses and mental faculties. China identifying as communist does not automatically make it communist.

I see that China is communist. All the different evidence points towards it, INCLUDING their constitution. You, however, have to invent conspiracy theories spanning multiple arguments, from fake constitution to secret bureaucratic class

>>2615937
Oriental liberalism combined with physical despotism*

>>2615969
How about liberal orientalism and despotic physicalisM?

>>2615974
Physical orientalism and liberal despotism?

>>2615937
>>2615966
>oriental
just call them heathens, stupid Christian

>>2615652
>Read ᴉuᴉlossnW. That is, in fact, a very large part of what fascism attempts to do.
Don't care about what ᴉuᴉlossnW wrote or what they say the "attempt" to do, historically fascist regimes just melt the poor.

>>2615995
Eliminating poverty is not the same as melting the poor, chuddy.

>>2615726
>All the different evidence points towards it
Care to provide that evidence? And don't you dare quote the part of their constitution about the "primary stage of communism" again.

>You, however, have to invent conspiracy theories spanning multiple arguments, from fake constitution to secret bureaucratic class

I never said that their constitution was fake, or that the bureaucratic class was secret. Those are both extremely strange inferences on your end.

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>>2616328
LOL Paul Krugman

>>2615284
who said that, who are you quoting

also you might be the sheltered one, china produces their own media, even if it's mostly romantic and wuxia slop

on the other hand only a certain selection of western movies are allowed to be screened in china, so there is a limit to western cultural inlfuence

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>>2616584
Why not? The US can steal oil in the Caribbean

>>2615640
least deranged liberal genocide fantasy

>>2615640
i see your three gorges dam flood and I raise you 1 burger power grid

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>>2615640
completely unscientific game of thrones intro fantasy tier map

>>2616635
You guys say this like half of what you post isn't fantasy about Xi nuking le empire

>>2616684
thirdworldists crashing out doesn't get 100k chungus likes on liberal websites

>>2616648
Lmao, the 9 Substations should be turned into a meme, lmao. Because it's a counter to the 3 gorges and because the Chinese love doing this number shit.

>>2616705
>Lmao, the 9 Substations should be turned into a meme, lmao.
It will now officially never become a meme
>Because it's a counter to the 3 gorges
Most people don't even know what that means

>>2616711
Just go back to reddit and shove your gayass flag up your ass

>>2616713
Lol mad

>>2615652
>read AND believe fascists
Hahaha, oh wow


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Are we starting to witness a "battle for second place" between the U.S. and India?

https://arnaudbertrand.substack.com/p/are-we-starting-to-witness-a-battle

Mao Keji - whom I have the pleasure to know personally - is one of the most thought-provoking thinkers in China right now.

Mao studied at Tsinghua University - China’s top academic institution - and worked during several years as an analyst at China’s influential National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC), the central organization coordinating China’s economic planning and policymaking. He is currently on leave as a visiting PhD Candidate at Harvard University.

Mao’s main field of study is India’s geopolitics, and he was one of the very few to predict the counter-intuitive cooling of US–India relations all the way back in March 2025, almost 6 months before Trump’s punitive August tariffs, and before the warm Modi-Xi-Putin meet at the SCO summit in September.

But his wisdom goes way beyond India. Long-time followers will recall I’ve written about his thoughts three times before: first on his analysis of Chinese youth and their pragmatic rejection of Western ideological tribalism, the second time on his striking parallels between Trump’s DOGE movement and episodes like Khrushchev’s secret speech and China’s Cultural Revolution, and lastly I shared an article he wrote about interpreting Nezha 2 geopolitically.

What makes Mao such a valuable thinker is precisely this range: he moves fluidly between civilizational analysis, domestic politics, history and geopolitics, always grounded in material realities rather than ideological abstractions. And, most importantly, he’s typically right.

Long story short, he just published a new article in Sinification and, true to form, it’s easily the sharpest piece of geopolitical analysis I’ve come across this month.

In that article Mao analyses the sharp deterioration of US-India relations and even ends with this striking prediction: that the US and India may eventually find themselves locked in a “battle for second place” - competing for the silver medal in a world where China has become the unassailable number one.

Let’s look at his arguments.

Decline and anxiety as the root cause

Mao believes - as do I - that there’s been a fundamental shift in the U.S. strategic approach to the world caused by two intertwined factors: 1) structural reality - the actual erosion of relative American power and in particular the narrowing gap with China, and 2) the associated decline anxiety which he says is particularly acute within the MAGA coalition’s “national survival” narrative.

As he puts it, the US now increasingly perceives the costs of geopolitical confrontation with traditional adversaries as outweighing the benefits. Containing China and Russia requires sustained investment that the U.S. now fears is accelerating its decline: “the Trump administration has been deeply preoccupied with concerns over America’s own relative decline, displaying a far more pronounced inward-looking tendency and adopting extreme caution towards traditional forms of geopolitical competition, lest the depletion of strategic resources accelerates that very decline.”

Under that new strategy, nominal “allies” aren’t investments anymore but liabilities: the U.S. is paying for their security, their access to American markets, their privileged position in the global order - and essentially getting nothing in return if geopolitical confrontation is now something the U.S. wishes to steer clear of.

Heck, under that new framework “allies” are even actively harmful: they’re tripwires that could drag America into exactly the kind of costly confrontations it’s now trying to avoid, and they’re altogether obstacles to the deals Washington wants to strike with Moscow and Beijing. From Washington’s new perspective, allied solidarity isn’t a force multiplier anymore but a straitjacket.

From “chess pieces to encircle enemies” to “blood bags”

Mao uses a vivid metaphor which I find excellent: he says that the U.S.’s new approach is to treat “allies” no more as “chess pieces to encircle enemies” but as “blood bags”, in the medical sense of the term whereby a patient in decline requires constant transfusions just to stay alive. Allies aren’t there to help encircle China or Russia anymore - they’re there to be tapped: their markets opened to American goods, their industries subordinated to American priorities, their resources extracted to revitalize a declining hegemon.

The relationship has gone from predominantly strategic to overwhelmingly parasitic.

This logic explains what otherwise looks like incoherence. Why is Washington harsher on say Europe than on Russia? Because Russia has power - and continuing confrontation risks accelerating American decline. Europe does not (or, rather, it could have power but it prefers to bend the knee), making it a safer target. The friend-foe distinction has collapsed into something simpler: who can impose costs, and who can be a “blood bag”?

In this frame, China and Russia become not threats to contain but actors to coexist with - perhaps even, as Mao provocatively suggests, “collaborators in forms of geopolitical collusion.”

The ultimate “battle for second place” with India

This all brings us to India, which as a reminder is Mao’s core area of expertise.

For two decades, India was Washington’s darling. The US practiced what Mao calls “strategic altruism” - supporting India’s rise without demanding returns, on the assumption that a stronger India would naturally balance China. Trump’s first term followed this orthodoxy faithfully: he revived the Quad in 2017 after it had lain dormant for nearly a decade. Biden afterwards intensified the India investment, launching iCET to give India access to cutting-edge technology in AI and semiconductors, elevating the Quad to leader-level summits, and creating INDUS-X to deepen defense cooperation. The consensus seemed unshakeable.

Trump’s second term dramatically broke the pattern. India now faces 25% tariffs plus an additional 25% secondary sanction for buying Russian oil - a total of 50%, higher than China. H-1B visa fees have been hiked dramatically, targeting the Indian diaspora. The proposed HIRE Act would impose a 25% tax on outsourcing, threatening India’s $260 billion IT sector. And the rhetoric has turned vicious: Trump mocking that “the Indian economy is dead,” advisers calling India “a laundromat for the Kremlin,” figures from Trump’s camp branding Indian immigrants “Third World invaders.”

There might seem to be, at first glance, a contradiction with what Mao is otherwise saying: if Trump is looking to step back from geopolitical confrontation with Russia, why is he trying to pressure India with these sanctions for buying Russian oil and why the demonizing rhetoric around being “a laundromat for the Kremlin”? Not quite, as Mao argues: the Russia angle is a pretext, not a principled policy. If Washington genuinely cared about Russian oil purchases, it would apply similar pressure to China and Turkey - but it doesn’t, because they can impose costs. India cannot, so it gets squeezed and Russian oil becomes a handy justification. Principle has nothing to do with it.

Why such harshness with India? Mao’s answer is that, essentially, India is becoming what China was - a rising power that won’t bend the knee.

It’s in a way remarkably similar to the shift in approach that Trump took with regards to China during his first term. Of course China wasn’t exactly “Washington’s darling” the way India was, but up until Trump 1.0 the nominal policy towards China was engagement - the assumption that integrating China into the global economy would eventually liberalize it. Trump shattered that consensus, opting for a strategy of aggressive confrontation towards a rising China that wouldn’t subordinate itself to the U.S.

Now he can’t confront China much anymore as they can hit back and impose real costs. But he can still do India. Same pattern: rising power, won’t align fully (doesn’t want to become a full-fledged blood bag), confident about its own destiny. And India is still at a stage where it can’t hit back meaningfully so they’ve become the safe outlet for the same impulse the U.S. had towards China: punish the upstart that won’t defer.

As Mao puts it, in the U.S.’s eyes “India appears conspicuously ungrateful” for benefiting from American generosity while refusing to play by American rules. It’s the same narrative once applied to China: we opened our markets, transferred our technology, welcomed you into our order - and you repay us with defiance instead of deference?

Mao argues this friction is structural, not personal - and will outlast Trump. China’s rise hit America’s manufacturing base, fueling Trump 1.0’s trade war. India’s rise hits America’s service sector - the white-collar jobs America retreated into after deindustrialization. China took the factories and India is coming for the offices. And that’s arguably worse politically: it threatens the educated middle class who thought they were safe.

Follow the logic forward and you arrive at Mao’s most provocative prediction: the US and India, instead of allying against China, may end up competing against each other -for second place beneath Beijing.

And if China’s lead becomes truly unassailable? Mao sees a scenario where China’s structural tensions with both Washington and New Delhi might “mutually unwind,” as each rival would become more preoccupied with the other than with Beijing.

The great irony would be complete: the whole point of America’s two-decade investment in India was offshore balancing, building up a regional counterweight so China could be checked without direct US confrontation. In Mao’s scenario, China becomes the offshore balancer - secure at the top, watching its two rivals turn on each other.

The battle for the number 2 spot may have just begun.

>>2616815
Yep, the sudden surge of anti-Indian racism was caused by the US realizing that they are gonna lose against India, too. Next one on the list? Any African country with more than 150 million people before 2050 I would guess.

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>>2616821
it posted this article in both /usapol/ and /prc/ and it's funny how different the first replies I got were…

Bruh.

Who bake bread?


>>2616829
American eyceptionalism runs deep even in the burger "leftist" minds.

>>2616834
This man is AI.

new thread >>2616885

>>2615640
China is quite literally just there, it doesn't invade anyone, it provides Westoids with most of their cheap shit, etc. And yet wholesome chungus freedom-loving Reddit libs cannot stop fantasizing about having an excuse to kill hundreds of millions of people because uh free Hong Kong or whatever (reminder that the only person to die in those protests was a random old guy accidentally killed by a protester).

>>2616777
>anarkiddy… ahem "libsoc"
>takes fascist theory at face value
Checks out.

thread full; report to new thread >>2616885

>>2586661
>chinese eats dogs
Its more common in the south and old people. It isnt THAT popular anymore.

>>2613887
This. It's an updated version of this meme. Anyone who seriously suggests the CPC/PRC has actually "done nothing", ever, is being extremely disrespectful of towards both the party and the rest of the country, and to those who die in its struggle against empire.

It's a joke. Only a fool would take these memes as fact.

>>2614091
>A better phrasing would be "Be/do Wu wei, win", which is just the typical daoist mentality of chinese strategic thinking.
it's really wild how many people on leftypol claim to be multipolarista China maximalists and yet this is the first time I've seen anyone else on here express an understanding of actual Chinese philosophy but it's good to see I'm not the only one.


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