So this video has been going viral recently and it’s made me ask: will the demand to designate doctors and nurses as “cops” and the move to abolish doctors, nurses, and hospitals as we know it be the next bullshit wedge issue to divide an already fragile left?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DR2sZ0fD2DM/Basically, she uses Silvia Federici and Michel Foucault to argue that doctors are oppressive, that hospitals are prisons, and that we should seek to go back to a time when witches and doulas were the main providers of healthcare through giving herbal medicines like mugwort and tree bark. She also claims doctors gatekeeper medical knowledge and every individual should take care of their own health without relying on professionals. She also says we need to be more “death positive” and just accept death instead of using medical treatments of offset it.
Personally, I find these types of sentiments dangerous, especially given how we just came out of a pandemic that killed at least 10 million people worldwide and many Americans die due to lack of healthcare access. Your thoughts? Are doctors and nurses the equivalent to cops,
(Retarded ragebait)Seems like the most obvious, low quality, xittergram ragebait possible. If this gains any legs at all I'll be surprised.
Worthless endeavour. Doctors and other healthcare workers will be crucial to the revolution and afterwards. Socialist countries have sone of the best doctors on earth. “Abolish doctors” is petit-bourgeois anarchist nonsense.
>>2587547This woman is a “death doula” so she loses money of doctors keep sick patients alive.
sure thing right after bedtime abolition and school abolition
>>2587704"death midwife,[1] or death doula,[2] is a person who assists in the dying process, much like a midwife or doula does with the birthing process. It is often a community based role, aiming to help families cope with death, recognizing it as a natural and important part of life. The role can supplement and go beyond hospice. These specialists perform a large variety of services, including but not limited to creating death plans, and providing spiritual, psychological, and social support before and just after death. Their role can also include more logistical activities, helping with services, planning funerals and memorial services, and guiding mourners in their rights and responsibilities"
Basically the equivalent of a priest for our secular society lol
>>2587714Doulas are the chiropractors of the left, I fucking swear. Just medical conspiracism mixed with “feminist” and “indigenous” virtue signalling.
>>2587547nah shes 1000% right and extremely based
>>2587742
In sone countries, female doctors outnumber male ones.
Also, how does “community medicine” (which I’m assuming she means DIY quack cures like pink salt) prevent a fucking pandemic or treat/cure illnesses that often result in early death if left untouched? What a fucking idiot.
>>2587742
Why do these people assume we can erase the past?
>>2587760
Anarchists would rather go back to the Stone Age than accept the superiority of the Soviet-style model.
>fuck doctors I want witches with mugwort to fix my kidney disease
>>2587767
Christian Science kind of nuttery
>>2587750>Also, how does “community medicine” (which I’m assuming she means DIY quack cures like pink salt) prevent a fucking pandemic or treat/cure illnesses that often result in early death if left untouched? What a fucking idiot.In the context of late medieval Europe, you've got an accumulation of folk remedies of variable effectivity. The stereotypical idea of magic, where you mix a bunch of junk together, say a spell, and then something weird happens, has its roots in this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Old_Recipes/comments/nyzron/a_fascinating_thread_tracing_old_traditional/
>So there’s this old German remedy for getting rid of boils. A mix of eggshells, egg whites, and sulfur rubbed into the boil while reciting the incantation and saying five Paternosters. And according to my prof’s friend (a doctor), it’s all very sensible. The eggshells abrade the skin so the sulfur can sink in and fry the boil. The egg white forms a flexible protective barrier. The incantation and prayers are important because you need to rub it in for a certain amount of time. So for these people, the "magic" element, what I guess she's referring to by "community medicine", is that traditionally passed down knowledge, which could theoretically have pre-Christian roots. Kind of like how American English days of the week have Pagan roots with most Yankees having no cultural knowledge about who Fri was or why its his day.
It's not all totally crazy mumbo jumbo, because there's got to be SOME kind of efficacy to what they're doing, even if it's just a placebo effect, or else it wouldn't be passed down. The thing is though, it's like you said, home remedies and superstitious voodoo isn't going to stop bubonic plague or whatever.
antivaxxers if they read theory, the anarchist equivalent of lysenkoists. All 3 are essentially pro-disease nurglites and should be treated as such(CPC treatment of the falun gong being a good example of how to deal with woowoo death cults).
ITT another episode of morons conflating bourgeois science with modern medicine
so many of these insta and tiktok thots are so fkn hot, i fuckin hate it
>>2587788
Zerzan was never a Marxist. He was a Debordian/Situationist IIRC.
>>2587779>>2587787>>2587788My understanding is, they like to say that the vast majority of human diseases in the world today are caused by capitalism, and by abolishing capitalism we wouldn't have to worry about cancers, kidney diseases, diabetes, lupus, heart diseases, tuberculosis, HIV, measles, smallpox, chickenpox, rabies, tetanus, covid, etc. The problem is, moving towards socialism isn't going to cause those illnesses to magically disappear.
>>2587877Also, what if you have an emergency and require intensive medical care? Not everyone has, say, a heart machine in their apartment complex.
>>2587896Private equity has decimated rural healthcare in the US too.
>>2587904
Let me guess: she claims some "indigenous" ancestry to give her braindead takes credibility?
>>2587787Yeah I don't think the witchy shit is a substitute for dialysis.
>>2587547I'm 100% certain Midwestern Marx and/or Maupin will make a response to this.
Yes the whole modern medical institution is bourgeois and oppressive, it's also very efficient at making workers healthy enough to be exploited and reproduce. I wouldn't go as far as to say they are just like cops, more like teachers and schools. And in a developped socialist society they will exist but they will look drastically different, with medical knowledge being more spread out in the general population.
>>2587923How did doctors function in the Eastern Bloc?
>>2587923>it's also very efficient at making workers healthy enough to be exploitedThis is an argument for more professional healthcare, not less.
>with medical knowledge being more spread out in the general population.Knowledge is just some of it. What about medical equipment? You honestly believe every commune of 30 people will have an X-ray machine lying around? Get real. Maybe in your fantasy world.
I'll say it again: this kind of shit reminds me of how hatred of the medical establishment was a key reason Foucault ended up supporting neoliberalism, on the basis that markets could decentralize power from the state.
>>2587721I don't have much experience with them but I get the impression you're correct.
>>2587721>doulas>feministshitlibs that say these two are related either have no idea about both of these things (at best) or are actively pushing misinformation cia-style, at worst
>>2587896truth nuke, although i would suppose it would affect other medical areas much more than childbirth/obsterics (but not gynecology) precisely because the community can and often does take up the childbirth care/midwifery role
>abortifacient herbs not recommended by physiciansmore of a political statement from them
>>2587547Wonder what her opinion is on Cuba having the most doctors per capita and sending them to countries after disasters for solidarity work.
>>2587787Folk medicine that works is called MEDICINE.
For instance, aspirin is a hyper-condensed form of a substance found in tree bark. Why use the bark when you can just take an aspirin that's more effective?
>>2587990do you want our infant mortality rate to get even higher?
>>2588282lolwut? what about the post above suggests raising infant mortality rates, or it being good in any way?
>>2587904
I would still sex.
>>2588393would you rather your baby born at hospital where there is medical gear or your baby is born in a kiddy pool in your living room delivered by a girl with dreads whose only knowedge is to chew flowers and tea, burn incense, and rub crystals
if there are problems midwife River Song cant perform the care the infant or the mother needs.
>>2588388based, less americans less exploitation of the third world
>>2587547>he also says we need to be more “death positive” and just accept death instead of using medical treatments of offset it.She is an eugenics shill, probably gets payed by porkies and private insurance companies. The point is to get rid of unwanted, less profitable workers quickly.
It can't get more fascist than this.
>>2588409My cousin was planning on a home birth. Then it was discovered the baby had issues and needed to be born via emergency C-section instead. Thankfully, the baby was healthy and my cousin had no further complications. But still. How many of these doula idiots have medical equipment where they can detect issues like this?
>>2588415
“Doctors suck under capitalism” is not a reason to abolish doctors and hospitals.
>>2587547I hate hippies. Just heil hitler like the rest of them and stop pretending you a "leftist".
American health and science literacy has always been dogshit. They are perhaps the only country in the world where naturopaths can be a primary care provider.
>>2588685>>2588679You're alright, Trot
Why do you waste our time by posting mentally ill people saying dumb shit
>Caliban and the Witch
Is this the kind if garbage Western leftists read? Literally anything other than Marx?
>>2588736its good. like origin of the family but more in depth
>>2588736yes
the shit white girl liberals read is either YA fiction or post modern self help with naturalist aesthetics
>>2588744Federici is a marxist
when does she say abolish doctors and hospitals?
>>2588747no, only anon is a marxist
everyone else is a degenerate westerner
>>2588747…who is not taken seriously by other Marxists. Her work is more popular in gender studies departments for a reason. Her reliance on functionalism, warped view of primitive accumulation and poor historical research are common points of critique.
>>2588763You are coping and defending a reactionary.
>>2588766nice projection. you clearly havent read it
>>2587547>the demand to designate doctors and nurses as “cops” and the move to abolish doctors, nurses, and hospitals as we know it what is the timestamp for these claims?
>we should seek to go back to a time when witches and doulas were the main providers of healthcare through giving herbal medicines like mugwort and tree barkim also not seeing any of this in the video
>>2588772You have no idea what projection means. But please, defend the book for us if you like. I sat for 30min while a white liberal, self-proclaimed witch explained the book to me, so I don't mind doing it again.
>>2588761>reliance on functionalism, warped view of primitive accumulation and poor historical research are common points of critiquemaybe for liberals. they say the same thing about parenti
>>2588775Nope, those critiques are put forward by academic Marxists. You make this book sound fantastic.
>>2588777>academic Marxistsoh so liberals? you gotta source for that?
>>2588774>I sat for 30min You probably shouldnt get theory from Instagram.
>>2588778Sure, there's Brenner and Meiksins Woods. You do realize that Frederici herself considers herself an academic Marxist? So it's liberals critiquing liberals then? Why care about it at all then?
>>2588782It was a book club. But yes, I shouldn't tolerate 30min of unsolicited dogshit.
>>2588783>there's Brenner and Meiksins Woodsliterally who?
>looks insideoh so it really is the liberal "new left" western academics.
like i said, projection. you have no idea what you are talking about
>>2588775>>2588783lol, lmao
> That our workers are capable of it is borne out by their many producer and consumer cooperatives which, whenever they're not deliberately ruined by the police, are equally well and far more honestly run than the bourgeois stock companies. I cannot see how you can speak of the ignorance of the masses in Germany after the brilliant evidence of political maturity shown by the workers in their victorious struggle against the Anti-Socialist Law. The patronizing and errant lecturing of our so-called intellectuals seems to me a far greater impediment. We are still in need of technicians, agronomists, engineers, chemists, architects, etc., it is true, but if the worst comes to the worst we can always buy them just as well as the capitalists buy them, and if a severe example is made of a few of the traders among them — for traders there are sure to be — they will find it to their own advantage to deal fairly with us. But apart from the specialists, among whom I also include schoolteachers, we can get along perfectly well without the other “intellectuals.” The present influx of literati and students into the party, for example, may be quite damaging if these gentlemen are not properly kept in check.> The biggest obstacles are the small peasants and the importunate super-clever intellectuals who always think they know everything so much the better, the less they understand it. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1890/letters/90_08_21.htmsome things just never change
>>2588786Do literally anything but defend the book, thanks.
>>2588788Yes, you have single handedly crushed all of academic Marxism with one piece from 1890. Well done.
>>2588789Maybe post an actual critique. What historical research is wrong? How is her view of primitive accumulation warped?
>>2588791Marxism is critique of political economy and has nothing to do with academic bullshit that obfuscates reality at best, hope that helped. :)
>>2588796Which is exactly what Federici is doing. What is your point exactly? My academic Marxist is based but yours is not? Lmao
>>2588798If your subject only exists in academia then chances are it's not marxism, just saying.
>My academic Marxist is based but yours is not? LmaoYou sound like an illiterate retard. What "academic Marxist" am I defending? Engels? Then you must have an incredibly stupid and all-encompassing definition of such.
>>2588803You defended Federico against what you saw as an army of liberals and likened her to Parenti. Dude, are you actually insane?
>>2588798>Which is exactly what Federici is doingphilosophy isnt critique of polecon
<Often described as a counterpoint to Marx's account of "primitive accumulation", Caliban reconstructs the history of capitalism, highlighting the continuity between the capitalist subjugation of women, the transatlantic slave trade, and the colonization of the Americas. The book has been described as "a retelling of the birth of capitalism that places women at the center of the story".holy shit "the history of all hitherto existing human society is the history of
class gender struggles" LMFAO
this is typical petty bourgeois academic behavior of digging up old dusty newspapers and books, creating a whole mythos around individuals, not interested in actually understanding the world and more interested in writing papers for the sake of some apparent career
>>2588793I did and you refused to read them saying it's liberal nonsense. What exactly do you want?
>>2588813an assertion isn't an argument
>>2588812No, it's her critics that are the real liberals you see. She talks all about it in her new book.
>>2588812>Often describedby who? are we really citing blogs now? whats the page number for federici claiming gender struggle has primacy over class struggle?
>>2588820oh so by "them" you mean two compatible left liberals? and by "refused to read" you mean i havent scoured their whole bibliography in the last half hour?
so do you have a specific article or page number you want people to read or are you recommending things that chatgpt gave you that you havent read either?
>>2588823You don't have to scour anything. Their most prolific works are enough.
"Agrarian Class Structure and Economic Development in Pre-Industrial Europe," Past & Present, No. 70 (Feb., 1976), pp. 30-7
"The Origins of Capitalist Development:
a Critique of Neo-Smithian Marxism"
New Left Review n°104, July-August 1977 (skip to "Commercialization Model" and "Primitive Accumulation)
The Origin of Capitalism: A Longer View
(skip to Chapter 5: "The Agrarian Origin of Capitalism" and Chapter 6: "Modernity and Postmodernity.")
This thread is proof most “socialists” worship the PMC.
>>2587922Eddie has a degree in healthcare and is quite critical of healthcare under capitalism so he would be perfect to respond to her.
>>2587922Maupin will just accuse Federici of being CIA like he always does when he doesn’t want to read a theorist’s work.
>>2588887More like FEDerici
Suspicious as hell imo
>>2587704Sounds about right.
Did this person just discover Federici?
>>2588726That’s hella dangerous.
>>2589193>died by accidental choking while in the hospital>dead from adverse reaction to medication after suffering from high blood pressure and kidney disease>died from cardiac arrest after suffering from diabetes, multiple strikes, and high blood pressure>died from kidney disease after suffering from diabetes and multiple strokesYikes
You can't talk about anything here unless it's shitty boring xitter leftist consensus.
I think her view is insane but amusing and worth discussing. Mods here are literal dogshit in human form.
May suicidal ideation haunt the rest of your hopefully short lives mods.
>>2587547This chick clearly has BPD. I can tell from her eyes.
>”doctors are COPS”
Pretty sure this is the exact same line of reasoning used by anti-vaxxers.
Did this girl take the covid vaccine if she’s so anti-doctor?
Show this thread to Maupin and ask his opinion.
Symbolic politics at its finest.
She might as well say this to the millions of Americans who die due to lack of healthcare access. What a fucking privileged c*nt.
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