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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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The 2010s marked the effective end of most remaining communist insurgencies. Although many had been in decline for years, it was during that decade that they finally collapsed. The Naxal movement, communist insurgencies in Africa and Southeast Asia, and the last remnants of the IRA either fizzled out or ended with arrests after failed attacks and raids. In 2023, the Zapatistas dissolved their Autonomous Municipalities. The conflicts that leftist magazines and academics once wrote papers about and sometimes even traveled to for the occasional photoshoot are now over, so what is to done?
86 posts and 11 image replies omitted.

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>>2638072
There are from Italy, Armenia and Iceland as well. Sounds like your numbers are 2013-2016 only.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Freedom_Battalion

>>2638054
What the fuck are you talking about? I live in a Muslim country and Islamists and ethno-nationalists(who are nominally socialists) are constantly clashing. I can admit there are rare regional exceptions where Islamism does intersect with ethnic nationalism, but unlike you I’m not stuck in 1970s academia. Now, don’t you have better things to do, like reading a paper about how riding bikes is Fascist

>>2637958
>>2637966
>The YPG’s casualty data confirms linkages between international PKK-linked groups. Kurds from Turkey total 49.24 percent of the YPG’s self-reported casualties between January 2013 and January 2016, according to an ongoing Atlantic Council study. YPG martyrdom notices show that 359 Turkish citizens, 323 Syrians, 32 Iranians, seven Iraqis, two Australians, two Azeris, and a person from England, Germany, Greece, and the United States each have been killed fighting with the group since January 2013. To be sure, there are methodological problems with the data: The two authors relied on self-reported numbers and have not been able to cross-reference this information with the PYD.
>>2638084
I never said there weren’t any casualties. A few did die but in terms of most impact from Western volunteers, the most substantial came from SF guys who helped train the various militias, but western leftists (excluding the Turkish Kurds), outside of the media image were negligible as a whole. Like I said before, the Shia fighter from Lebanon probably did far more to defeat ISIS, and that doesn’t mean you should be praising Hezbollah, but you can acknowledge that you can have allies you disagree with.

>>2638198
>Jan 2016.
So, right before a bunch of fairly large offensives and so on, then?
I'm not even saying you are wrong but this is not firm grounding to build a conclusion off of either way, just of the top of my head i can think of at least for example 5 or 6 dead from the UK and most would very likely be from the couple of years proceeding this date.

>PRC
>Gets established with the help of the USSR via the Comintern
>Comintern and USSR dissolves / gets overthrown
>Maoists, greatly inspired by the Chinese revolution, attempts to overthrow their bourgeois dictatorships in their semi-feudal and semi-colonial, mostly agricultural, Asian countries.
>China pretends they don't exist, keep relations with the bourgeois state
>Thread filled with "give up" posts
>Most clearly don't know the facts of either the Chinese revolution or the strategy applied by Maoists in India or the Philippines, as they mistake both the approach to the proletariat, peasantry and urban area.

>>2614215
>Wait until multipolarity builds up the local proletariat enough?
Yes?
And if they had more than one braincell they would assist in this process so they dont have to wait half a century

>>2638238
USSR, China, DPRK, AES are so stupid lmao they should've just waited!
Why didn't they think of that?

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>>2637948
>unless a powerful foreign backer aids them?
>>2637961
>unless a powerful foreign backer aids them?

dont worry you two, climate change will destablize current bourg regimes. The happenings will happen.
(also we might die but eh I rather take the gamble. Since we have no choice)

>>2638246
None of their revolutions occured under u.s. unipolarity

They've all transformed into banditry. It's over for their movements.

>>2638234
>>Most clearly don't know the facts of either the Chinese revolution or the strategy applied by Maoists in India or the Philippines, as they mistake both the approach to the proletariat, peasantry and urban area.
No one except a handful of somewhat edgy contrarians is saying “give up.” Most of us are making rational arguments and are just trying to analyze the failures of these insurgencies from a military and political perspective. No one is calling them terrorists either, but these movements are either dead or confined to a handful (and I mean a very small handful) of people holed up in a village, probably in retreat for years.
Also, stop treating Foco like it’s some mathematical formula. The man who literally wrote failed in the Congo and Bolivia. It only sort of works when you’re up against a shit-tier military and have a population where the majority actively despises the ruling power and wants something else.

>>2638280
Maoists (mainline, not Gonzaloists) don't follow foco in urban areas from what I've seen. There they resemble Marxist-Leninist (anti-revisionist) more in praxis, applying more Maoist mass line, dialectics and less capitulationism towards parliamentarist right-wing populist culture war shit, at least from what I've seen.
This goes for both mainline Maoists both in literal imperialist countries where the terrain is The Urban Area as well as the urban area of, say, the Philippines. It's party (CPP), army (existing in red base areas in the rural areas outside the metropole), united front. The united front includes a lot of mass work organizations. A lot of those, in contrast to going around focoing themselves up like Guevarists adventurists, are actually based in the urban area doing what a Hoxhaist party would do for outreach in like Portugal or something, but following the mass line, agitating, organizing, educating, protesting, doing street art, unionizing, striking, et cetera.

I’d argue that part of the problem is that some of these Marxist movements in former colonies were basically nationalist movements that recognized they could get some foreign support if they called themselves Communists. Once the USSR is gone, what is Communism’s raison d’etre?

Like many of these movements would later be supplanted by vaguely nationalist, conservative, and religious movements later—PFLP by Hamas for example. This is in no small part because the demands made by the communists, many of them or rather the most compelling ones, could often be picked up by widely diverse groups. Ultimately the reason someone chooses to join PFLP or Hamas is because of Israel, the reason one chooses one group over the other is because of a variety of factors ranging anywhere from which group is strongest locally to which gives him the most compelling pitch, and the thing is most Palestinians are “born” Muslim, few if any are “born” Communist. Islam ideologically reproduces itself in society throughout the Arabic world, Communism is adopted. It’s an ideology you teach yourself individually; not something that you’re immersed in as a child. A man who talks about Martyrs, Jihad, Jannah, and Allah is speaking the language of the common people, a man talking about Bourgeoisie, Proletariat, and Class War is speaking the language of foreign academics.

In cases where it’s not just a movement fighting against direct colonialism, where it comes down to various issues, how compelling is “class war” to people? Tribes and nations can appeal to deeply felt resentments and grudges, they can craft “myths” in some Sorelian sense. “Class war” is a kind of science, one that isn’t deeply felt the same way as “that foreigner is trying to take your cookie.”

>>2638345
>I’d argue that part of the problem is that some of these Marxist movements in former colonies were basically nationalist movements that recognized they could get some foreign support if they called themselves Communists. Once the USSR is gone, what is Communism’s raison d’etre?
I talked about this here >>2615584, virtually every successful Communist/Socialist revolution/movement after WW2 was 90% driven by nationalism.

>>2638345
You’re partially right but it’s complicated. Soviet aid and even recognition were the biggest drivers of Socialist groups during the Cold War. This obviously affected politics and while people largely remained Muslim in faith, certain Socialist and Communist ideas filtered through and shaped national and even peasant political understanding. The socialist rhetoric became part of the Zeitgeist of revolution. When the USSR ended, it was both a material and spiritual defeat.
Internal jihadism, which had developed during the Soviet–Afghan conflict, seemed to become the new zeitgeist. It carried both spiritual weight and material backing (from Gulf and Saudi financing). Though one artefact of the previous Soviet influence was that now leadership position of even Islamist movements would often be called the “general secretary.”

But now even Islamism has been defeated both spiritually and materially. Iran where the Islamic Revolution began has the lowest mosque attendance in the Middle East. Our slightly higher birth rates that we boasted about are now near or below replacement level. We are dealing with a housing crisis and a rising cost of living, and no mullah can offer a real solution.
As of now, it’s a politically bizarre time. I don’t think socialism will return in full force, simply because there is no longer a material or “spiritual/ideological” benefactor. Nationalism however is definitely making a comebac

>>2638345
>they can craft “myths” in some Sorelian sense
I am not familiar with Sorelianism, what does this ideology mean by this?

What about Colombia and Burma?

>>2638401
> certain Socialist and Communist ideas filtered through and shaped national and even peasant political understanding.
this

Again I feel like the Zapatistas are just doing that because they believe they can outlast the Mexican state without armed struggle if that makes sense

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>>2638411
I don’t know much about the situation in Colombia, but I wouldn’t call the rebels in Burma insurgents. Most groups there are armed ethnic-based militias in active combat. While some are aligned with socialist politics, their decisions seem driven less by ideology and more by pragmatic goals like land redistribution, sustaining a war economy or gaining favor with China.

Boring. Seen this one.

>>2638464
I’m share your exhaustion if not your ideological conviction

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>>2638363
I don't think it's "just" nationalism to be honest.

Let me try to explain: I've got a hypothesis that Fascism acts as a check on socialist revolution by existing, in that sense it doesn't even need to be successful or claim power or even directly confront Socialism. I think what Fascism accomplishes, is that it splits radicalism down the middle.

Like a lot of the guys that would go on to fight in the Red Army weren't really "Communists" in a meaningful sense. You've got Kerensky remarking that he saw graffiti that said "Down with the Jew, Kerensky! Long live Trotsky!" You had Trotsky claiming that the Russians would try to accept Bolshevism while rejecting Communism. Allegedly you even had some Red Army conscripts boo the term "Communism" when it was used in a speech.

With Fascism I think something unique happened which imperiled Socialism, which is that those guys who still retained reactionary tendencies but understood the need for revolution had an alternative now. Which isn't to say Fascism is de facto "revolutionary" but rather it heavily presents as such. It isn't so much that Fascism "beat Socialism into submission" so much as it created a fracture that could be exploited by liberals and even Fascists themselves. I believe it was Nicola Bombacci who was in exile in Russia that was asked by a Communist why they didn't just kill ᴉuᴉlossnW when they had the chance, and his answer was basically that the Fascists absorbed some of the most violent (and thus most willing to assassinate) cadres of the Socialist movement. I think even Hitler briefly remarked (before he got into power) that he wanted to convert more Communists to Nazism because he admired their commitment to ideological violence.

So this gives Fascism a distinct advantage, because when liberalism fails and it becomes obvious to everyone, Fascism presents itself as the "revolutionary" alternative. It appeals to prejudices and rhetoric that people already have, and in order to counteract this co-opting of revolutionary language, Socialists have illustrate and propagandize their differences. Fascists will absorb Socialist tendencies and tolerate them to a degree while keeping them broadly out of power, but Socialists filter out conservative and Fascist tendencies with greater and greater urgency. A man who rants about "fat cat capitalists" would not necessarily get expelled from a Fascist movement, but if he were to rant about "the Jews" he would undoubtedly get expelled from a Socialist one.

This is not to argue "we should tolerate anti-semitism" but rather just an observation.

Anyways, when Fascism fractures a revolutionary movement, it's fairly common for Socialists to ally with liberal forces to defeat them. This has especially been the case in modern times with France, where National Rally gets pushed back in no small part because centrists and leftists are willing to work against them (with of course plenty of backstabbing from centrists), but where these Fascist pushes are "defeated" it doesn't result in a Left-Wing victory because it can't "absorb" these disparate forces, it doesn't even want to! Whereas when Fascism gains a victory, it tries desperately to "absorb" certain segments of the Left. Socialism in that regard becomes like a dam while Fascism is like a river: the dam can break and the river will wash it away, but the river isn't ever "swallowed" by the dam, it merely stagnates while it waits for an opportunity to break free.

>>2638401
Oh for sure, I don't think its a case of "this is gonna be this way for all time" and I think one thing is that these extreme right wing regimes still fall to the contradictions of capitalism; like I told some TradCath over here that claimed to be a "former Communist who read all the literature" that if he can't actually explain how the Tendency of The Rate of Profit to fall is "solved" then he's had less of an ideological conversion and more has just chosen to close his eyes to stuff he supposedly already learned.

I think what makes Nationalism enduring and a powerful force is that everyone relates to "The Nation" differently, and it can even conceptualize a splinter of class consciousness under its umbrella; i.e. you can conceptualize income inequality as being bad for "the nation" for example.

>>2638405
>I am not familiar with Sorelianism, what does this ideology mean by this?

I've gone on for a bit so I'll try to be brief. Georges Sorel was a French Syndicalist and laid some ideas down that would go on to inspire Socialists and Fascists alike. One of these ideas was that of a "revolutionary myth". Think of it like an ideal that makes itself "real" by virtue of inspiring to act on it. For example: Early Christians believed in the imminent return of Jesus Christ and the end of the world, they believed in that so much they formed communes, they let themselves be torn apart in grisly spectacles of martyrdom, they preached to anyone who would hear them about the "One True God" and while Jesus didn't return, over time Christianity became the State Religion of Rome.

Lets use another example: regardless of whether one believes in the revelations of the Prophet Muhammad or that he was guided by an omnipotent God and that's what let him succeed, the fact is that his preaching Islam convinced people to believe in Islam and those believers would, through the audacity of genuine faith, go on to completely shape a third of the world and become one of the most populous religions on earth.

Finally, Sorel brings his claims of myth to "the present" or rather his present, in the notion of the Syndicalist general strike. Basically, its the belief in a General Strike as a myth, as this eschaton, this final battle between Bourgeoisie and Proletariat, that spurs workers towards making it a reality. When a worker is sabotaging a piece of equipment or a factory in the name of a General Strike, it's not because of rational or scientific planning necessarily, but because he's spurred on by a myth, the myth of the General Strike. Another worker in another factory learns of this act of sabotage, and having already internalized the myth of the General Strike, he too commits an act of sabotage in order to bring this General Strike about.

To Sorel, "Myths" weren't idle Utopias or conceptions of "the world to be", they were romanticized conceptions of struggle. If the early Christians or Muslims didn't genuinely believe in their respective "myths" they likely wouldn't have struggled as hard to make them real. If they didn't believe in a Heaven or a final revelation or what have you, they'd have no reason to let themselves be eaten by lions or stand up to overwhelming odds.

Sorel conceived of Marx as a brilliant sociologist who created an effective modern myth: The Class War. And it was that enduring belief in Class War that Sorel was convinced would spur radical and violent conflicts with Capitalism.

>>2638470 (edited)
>Oh for sure, I don't think its a case of "this is gonna be this way for all time" and I think one thing is that these extreme right wing regimes still fall to the contradictions of capitalism
nta but I think socialism is in a pretty good position to exploit the climate crisis. Assuming it doesnt go bad to the point of extinction, no other ideology really provides a solution for it. Liberal capitalism caused it. Fascism still promotes capital in it and doesnt really provide any real solutions for it. And the ensuing consequences of it.
Socialism feels like the only system that could really deal with this situation

>>2638483
Reversion to feudalism or slavery are also possible

>>2638485
Its certainly possible in portions of the world, but I dont see them winning out. Feudalism and slavery are both heavily inefficent systems. All it takes is a few socialist states to rise up. And these will spread. Especially since the majority of people dont want to live in feudalism or slavery

>>2638487
My bet for that is on the complete loss of productive capacity needed for capitalism, if you don’t have the fuel to burn for factories you can have capitalism and thus will revert to feudalism/slave/oriental mode of production or some patchwork mix of all pre capitalist social orders

>>2638493
>complete loss of the economic conditions that lead and sustain capitalism
>will cause a reversion to feudalism/ slavrey/oriental mode of production
hmm yeah that would be possible

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>>2614138
The Naxals getting completely annihilated by a moderate offensive by the Indian government was almost funny after we had Maoists on here constantly spamming this one image and that all Western leftists are bad because we're not these guys and how they're all totally right about to take over India any day now just you wait.

Anyone who did any amount of research could tell that this was a terrible strategy and this day was coming sooner or later.

>>2638500
Remember Lenin said history isn’t linear, it zigs and zags

>>2638470
I’m not a Westerner. I never grew up with Fascism presented as the ultimate boogeyman. To me I see it as an evolution of Sorelian syndicalism that was warped by a group of street gangsters who combined a half-understanding of socialism with their violent tendencies. I don’t see it as some biblical boogeyman. Hell, even if it did manage to come back, I bet China would probably still trade with them. The word Fascist itself was originally used for syndicalist labor unions in Italy.

>>2638485
>>2638487
>>2638500
I think the most probable future of the world resembling Central Asia, openly authoritarian, quasi-socialist and nationalist states that simply function, better than liberal capitalist nations but having chance of actual revolution. To me the political systems of Central Asia seem the most probable for the end of history.

>>2638553
so basically something like a more stable version of iran (even tho thats technically not part of central asia)

>>2638562
the aliyev model of azerbaijan

>>2638571
Not everywhere has Armenians to hate and ethnically cleanse

>>2638571
Hmm, I havent really read about this state. Guess I have some future reading material now

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>>2638502
Khrushchevite/Dengist Social Fascist/Social Imperialist Capitalist Roader Revisionist Marcyite Campists like yourself fall hook, line, and sinker for the Anti-Communist Propaganda of the Hindutva Fascist Bourgeois Comprador Indian State that spreads lies that the CPI (Maoist) has “surrendered” when in reality the CPI (Maoist) has already chosen a new General-Secretary named Thippiri Tirupathi to replace Nambala Keshava Rao who died on May 21 2025 valiantly fighting the Hindutva Fascist Bourgeois Comprador Indian State, and the Naxalite Maoist PPW in India continues in the Strategic Defensive Stage (the First Stage of Maoist PPW) where the Bourgeois forces have the upper hand and the Maoists are confined to a Low-level Insurgency, but it will advance to the Strategic Stalemate Stage (The Second Stage of Maoist PPW) once World War III breaks out and the Hindutva Fascist Bourgeois Comprador Indian State is bogged down fighting China and Pakistan which will allow the Naxalites to start seizing control of large sections of Rural India (they will probably even receive Military aid from China), and it will finally reach the Strategic Offensive Stage (The Third and Final Stage of Maoist PPW) in which the Maoists overwhelm the Bourgeois forces when World War III escalates into a Global Nuclear War (including a Nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan) that will collapse the Hindutva Fascist Bourgeois Comprador Indian State (along with completely destroying the entire Global Capitalist-Imperialist System, thus allowing for a World Maoist PPW to create a Global USSR) and allow the Naxalites to take over all of India and establish a Federation of Socialist States in South Asia, including a Hindi SFSR, Kashmiri SSR, Punjabi SSR, Sindhi SSR, Gujarati SSR, Marathi SSR, Konkani SSR, Kannada SSR, Malayalam SSR, Tamil SSR, Telugu SSR, Odia SSR, Bengali SSR, Nepali SSR, Assamese SSR, Nissi SSR, Mizo SSR, Manipuri SSR, Ao SSR, and Khasi SSR, which will all join the Global USSR (All of the SSRs and SFSRs of the future Global USSR are shown in the Map I posted) that will place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️!

>>2638643
You’re a zionist and not even funny


>>2638643
oh my god dude shut up stop spamming your coal

>>2614138
>so what is to done?
Acceleration

BREAKING NEWS:

CHINA AND RUSSIA HAVE WRITTEN STATEMENTS TO THE US STATE DEPARTMENT INSISTING THAT THEY SHOULDN'T DO WHAT THEY ARE ABOUT TO DO

thats it

>>2640163
>henry jackson society

>>2644670
ivet you're a newfag, don't you dare talk like that to King Lear
know your place

>>2645432
>t. Dengist mod angry a newfag instantly gets tired of their tired old 'Maoist strawman spambot' that convinces nobody

one less holdout

The bourgeoise got their eternal reich a few decades ago, they're just cleaning house and tidying it up a bit for what's to come.

The biggest impact of CPP is that libbed pinoy offshore devs don't like using it as a suffix for their code files lel.

>>2615511
>>2615520
Being confidently wrong seems to be a favorite pastime on this board.

>>2658206
Name me one current “Maoist” movement that has caused significant damage to the state.


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