Get them recruited
Get them trained
Get them armed
Get them shipped
Get them turned into mincemeat
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c5y9gr1jr91othings are so unspeakably bleak
and yet one must remain optimistic
if only because the courage to rope
is lacking
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/12/11/pttf-d11.htmlDecent read on the argument against Your Party by the SEP
WAR? NO
=NEVER NEVER WAR
>>2615566First sentence:
>stalinist bureaucrats Yeah no thanks
>>2615802>sees one no-no expression>brain turns offleftypol.org
>>2615797What if the war is anti-imperialist?
war: poor young men being used as cannon fodder for rich paedophiles; the final virtue of a wicked society.
>>2615894no war but class war.
i am a conscientious objector, not a coward.
>>2615812not him but it's not because it's a no-no expression, it's because it's nonsense. "reformist bureaucrats." would suffice and it's an early warning sign that you're reading something where the conclusion was decided before the arguments to support it, which is a solid bet given that the conclusion it all ultimately builds towards is:
>Explaining that the conditions now exist for an extraordinary advance in the political consciousness of the working class, North announced the launching December 12 of Socialism AI.…
>This is our answer to the efforts to corral workers behind Sultana and Corbyn’s doomed project. We are the sole tendency that not only sets out to build a revolutionary leadership, but which has, in the rich political heritage of the World Socialist Web Site and now the essential tool of Socialism AI, the necessary means to do this.which is, admittedly, one of the more remarkable arguments i've seen advanced by a sect. "why join an actually-existing organization capable of (admittedly, a bit incompetently) running a reasonably large conference when you could come with us? we've got ChatGPT trained on
My Life: An Attempt at an Autobiography. "
>>2615899If you'd posted this last night I've woken up thinking I had a strange fucking nightmare.
Weird Sex Web Site can always go lower than one could otherwise imagine.
>>2615899The argument appears decided before the text can be written because it's one of a number the WSWS have continued to publish regarding Your Party.
Whether you disagree with the SEP or not, their position regarding Your Party is the only correct one. The reformist tendencies within the UK have sunk below the mark - these efforts, where formerly they strove for capitulation with the bourgeois democratic establishment, have lost all momentum and can be regarded as a doomed political project in 2025.
Ignore the AI bit; they've adapted their own version of Deep seek and have trained it on their articles. It's actually quite good if you want book recommendations, it even recommended me Michael Roberts
Turn the Imperialist war into class war. Galvanize the youth who are faced with the meatgrinder. Destroy the royalist entity.
>>2615997
It's different in your country? why on earth are you on this site then?
>>2615996throw off the norman yoke
give england its free-born rights
Death to bourgeois rats and their collaborators
Down with the bourgeoisie
>>2616161Everywhere in this country it is shaped through the instruments of class rule and with it their political reaction.
The dull incipient consciousness of its workers who have been bribed, placated, and intellectually retarded into a passive ignorance whilst wealth inequality swallows in its jaws the dependent underclass on whom its self same society is dependent, ruled by a clergy of appointed officials whose task it is the ministration of its machine like repression.
May this country burn in the cradle its imperial ambitions
>>2615960I wouldn't go so far as to be optimistic, but this certainly isn't the nadir of British reformism. The Greens/YP are operating at a level well above the 2020-2024 and <2015 (2014 for viewers in Scotland) baselines. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that they're going to do anything
good, but they're doing something
different and different is about as good as you can hope for. (The SEP strategy, by contrast, appears to be "standing on the sidelines appealing for people to join the TRUE revolutionary party, which is them and not any of the 500 other sects making similar appeals, just as they've done for all eternity")
I could even go so far as to formulate it thus: I am so pessimistic that I regard the SEP as optimists. To be betrayed Syriza style would be the greatest achievement of the British left-and-so-called-left since being betrayed in 1976. (Ooh, the anniversary of that'll be coming up next year…) The attack line winds up becoming an advertising line: As the Trump voter famously put it in 2016: Obviously they're not going to do that, but at least they cared enough to lie…
>>2616237AKA the gammons. Whose hatred and stupidity will spell ruin for the rest of us.
>>2616248the gammons are the pensioners
the lumpen are the patriots
i agree with this gentleman, that the fantasy of anglo-saxon england is a distorted, whiggish fantasy, purported by those wishing to overcome the norman yoke with fanciful nonsense. the codes of conduct which he refers to are collections of written laws, preserved in the "textus roffensis" (1124), which includes within it, copied manuscripts of 3 anglo-saxon law codes (c. 600-695), which highlight the extremely hierarchical nature of these times, with separate "weregild" (blood-money compensations) according to rank (the 3 law codes being "æthelberht's laws", "hlothere and eadric's laws" and "wihtred's laws"). these laws have also been said to be entirely related to contemporary german law codes, such as the "lex burgundionum" (c. 500), which itself traces back to roman law.
now, the separation of powers is somewhat mediated in the power which bishops and kings alike are granted by these codes, but progress in right only really begins in the norman era (1066-) with the proclomation of freedom being preserved in the "william writ" (1067), later attributed as safeguarding the "ancient liberties" of england, as written in the magna carta (1215). we get the first piece of common law in the "assize of clarendon" (1166) which establishes the grand jury system. we obviously get the magna carta later on, by pressure from the barons. edward coke himself (1628) and john lilburne (1645) both appealed to this document as a security of an englishman's rights. of course, we only get the "bill of rights" (1688) with yet another norman (scandinavian) invasion with yet another "william" on the throne. so then, is the "norman yoke" really a curse to england?
>>2616353Dealing with Brits would make me suicidal too
>>2616378Why are you posting this garbage here?
>>2616382garbage? its history.
I do kind of believe in the Norman Yoke, because its those same Norman aristocrats who own so much of the land. That's not to say I think highly of the Saxons right now.
getting more into the weeds of the norman yoke theory, we see that it first appears in medieval times, and is suddenly revived in the 17th century, after translation of medieval literature (1642). it then features itself as political propaganda for the roundhead faction against the king and his cavaliers. it isnt just lilburne (1645), but also winstanley (1649) who utilises this device, as a means to petition for the rights of englishmen. later american revolutionaries like thomas paine and thomas jefferson both use this prefix to compare it to their contemporary struggle, with the added beliefs of the free-born rights of the english.
>>2616388apparently one person who didnt believe in the norman yoke theory was the reactionary thomas carlyle, interestingly enough. i was reading also that english as a language was not spoken by the norman nobility, but was continued by the peasantry, until henry iv (1399-1413) adopted it, over 300 years after the initial conquest… now of course, its the most popular language in the world, but had humble beginnings. 😅
i can never re-locate it, but a the line in england where seats go from lab-con marginals to lib-con marginals (traditionally, before starmer fucked everything) is the line where the kingdom that payed the danegeld ended. paying the danegeld makes you vote labour.
Anyone know if the IMT's newest project, the "Revolutionary Communist Party", is still an active thing in the UK? Remember seeing their posters in York 2 or 3 years ago.
Anyway, I ask because recently their Canadian branch and Swedish branch both went full crisis mode and maybe(?) dissolved over a massive rape problems within the organisations.
My understanding is apparently in Canada there was a widespread issue of socially inept student activist types using the RCP as a vehicle for socialising, getting drunk, and then ultimately some greasy incel virgin 20 year old Trots would end up taking advantage of more or less blacked out female uni students who attended party events.
In Sweden it was more a case of a few creepy older lecturers / boomer theory heads trying to brainwash female student activists into giving away all their money, cutting off their families (full deFOO shit), basically just grooming them old school paedo cult style.
So has any of this impacted the UK organisation at all? I haven't heard anything from the UK side of things.
>>2616685>using a political party as a vehicle for throwing parties and shagging the female membersI mean who do they think they are? The Tories?
>>2616685I have had some dealings with them. Six months ago they were probably the most active they've been since the Corbyn days. I believe they've been been out door knocking. Over here they are just student Trots that get burnt out every three years, I've always assumed they will end up with with a big rape sexual assault crisis because Trots are Trots.
>>2616685They're around, their growth has supposedly stalled over the past year or two after a big bump around the rebrand and palestine protests. I'm not aware of any particular scandals the British section has had aside from having weak politics and being an org that runs on burning out students. They were marginally involved in Your Party during initial closed talks around it because their ingenue Fiona Lali was dating the son of one of Corbyn's advisors. They dropped out sometime at the end of the summer when the drama combined with the rise of the greens made Your Party seem a lot less appealing as a vehicle. Last I heard they'd jumped onto the next hot new thing with trying to ride Mamdani's coattails by suggesting they run Fiona Lali for mayor of london.
current UK budget per year is £1,300,000,000,000 over a period of 5 years, making the total funds for this labour cabinet £5,200,000,000,000 (and of course theyre still asking for more). do you reckon that if you were given 5 trillion for 5 years, you could fix this entire country front and back? anyone would, except politicians, who now seem eager to send us all to the slaughterhouse after fleecing our wealth.
>>2616352<psued rightoid arguing against shit nobody anywhere ever is sayingLet me guess. This is under a video of your fat autistic Welsh fave looser you post here?
>>2616685You mean to say the Fiona Lali party.
Poor woman. She had one viral moment and they pushed her infrint of everything and plaster her everywherelike shes nulenin. She only looks about 19. It feels all a bit exoitatitve tbh.
>>2617078what is "right-wing" in demolishing the illusions of anglo-saxon nativism?
>>2617149the church of england has been a non-entity for decades now
>>2617163
i was baptised in a catholic church when i was a baby so its all good 🫰
>>2616685Basically what
>>2616959 said. The RCP's target for their conference this year was 2,000 members, they are now announcing great heights of 1,300.
>>2617169I just can’t be dealing with Trots. I do want to join a communist party of sorts but I’ll be buggered if I’m going to be 65, the chairman, getting slated weekly as “out of touch” by generations of former party members turned Fleet Street commentators
It’s not even out of a strong sense of anti-racism, just the absolute fucking cheek of yanks thinking they can set the rules in a British/Australian/New Zealand garrison town
>>2617215they joined the war to conquer europe, and they largely did.
>>2617177I encountered the RCP leafleting once at a train station in Milton Keynes, their theory seems to revolve around seething about Stalin and some vague waffle about revolution sometime in the future, trust me bro.
There's a Chinese propaganda leaflet from the Korean war where they point out, truthfully, that China and the USSR didn't really give a fuck about the British empire but that while British soldiers were fighting and dying in Korea, America was pinching it from under their noses.
Of course by that point the deed was already more-or-less done anyway, but it's one of those odd things where you find propaganda that runs against the ideological perspective of the author (surely the socialist countries don't have the British empire's interests at heart!) in a way which guarantees they're either telling desperate lies, or an obvious truth.
Hang the rich
Hang their collaborators
Death to the bourgeoisie
>>2617167When Henry VIII asked for a divorce from the Pope, Rome was under siege by forces of the Holy Roman Empire.
Henry and the Pope were actually friends, but Henry and the Emperor were rivals.
Therefore it was implicitly understood that if the Pope granted Henry's divorce - or undertook any major decision without the Emperor's approval - while then siege was ongoing, then the HRE's forces would make the Pope "disappear".
The Pope tried to play for time by delaying messages and sending slow, gout ridden priests to visit Henry.
Apparently Henry didn't have the intellect to get the hint and/or lacked the patience to wait for the war between the Papal States and HRE to end before asking for a divorce.
Not to add a lot of his confidants and advisors were also trying to push for Protestantism too.
Just thought I'd mention it since it's a tidbit of information I remember from A Level history 12-ish years ago.
Today the BBC's Newsnight has done a 15 minute interview with Curtis Yarvin.
I'm sure most of you know who that is, but if you don't he's one of the Dark Enlightenment crew alongside Nick Land.
He self identifies himself as a fascist, a neo-feudalist, an absolute monarchist. He supports eugenics and the re-legalisation of slavery.
He wants the destruction of modern society, to be replaced by city states ruled not by governments but by capitalist corporations, in which the CEOs would serve as absolute monarchs with total control over the city state.
In his worldview human beings shouldn't have any rights whatsoever and are in effect the personal property of the CEO to which they are bound.
In other words, he literally wants to make the hyper-capitalist fascist sci-fi cyberpunk dystopia where machines grind billions of slave workers into dirt a reality.
He's also someone that Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, and JD Vance all deeply admire and look to for their political ideals.
So, why is it the BBC feels that is a reasonable person to do an interview with?
Why is interviewing actual fascists fine, when they won't platform Marxists, Anarchists or other leftists for such interviews?
Do you remember only a few weeks ago when the Torygraph released their document on the BBC as part of a right wing coup? Proclaiming the absurd delusion that the BBC was too left wing, too pro-trans, too anti-Israel?
I believe this is merely the beginning of the BBC News' shift to the hard right in response to this. I expect we will see more open fascists platformed in future.
Apparently someone who supports eugenics and slavery is now closer to the centre of the Overton window than anyone calling for a redistribution of wealth to avoid mass poverty.
>>2617297The lengths he'll go through to duck fighting Fury. It's getting silly now.
>>2617590Vid of the interview?
>>2617640They don't really cover a lot of interest but the BBC give basically no pushback on anything he says.
Also he appeared on Liz Truss' new show, on which he stated Truss should be dictator of the UK and reintroduce serfdom.
How are these people taken seriously at all?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WjE5P2n_ck >>2617590>>2617656The BBC is fascist, I don't think we should have any illusions about this, they're the biggest pushers of the war fever currently
>>2617590There's something about this that manages to damn both of them. For the BBC it's taking out the fascist handpuppet, while for Yarvin it's deciding that being the sort of chap the BBC has on for a soft-soap interview is better than pretending you communicate mostly via substack out of esoteric choice and too-complex-for-journalists ideas, rather than because you're a one-trick pony pseud elevated above his station by being the only person right of Hilary Clinton capable of spelling the word "Billionaire" (and, as a very clever little boy, doing an aside about how Billions mean different things in Britain and America. You think this is silly, but actually the world should be 50,000 CEO-kings coming up with their own versions of such arbitrary little differences. I am very smart.)
I find myself increasingly completely disillusioned with this country. Should I just drop everything and go teach English in China? I honestly feel like life here is just getting worse and worse every year.
>>2617709I'm across the pond, but I think the situation is the same everywhere in the West. I don't really think it has a future. Just the left and right wing of retardation leading us into a future of stagnation and decay. This website is a reflection of that as well tbh. I just need to give up politics and worrying about the future of my country.
Marx said that the proletariat formed the primary body of revolutionary subjects in society.
Mao said it was the peasants and national bourgeoisie.
So, In the UK in 2026, which socio-economic grouping will form the basis for being our revolutionary subject? Does such a cohert exist? How do we educate and mobilise them?
This is a very serious matter that needs a conclusive response.
>>2617924There is nothing to be done
We'z all gonna get conscripted and die in war and we will not do anything about it
>>2617709Of you have that opertumity and mobility, YES.
Nothing worth being here for.
>>2617924It's me, I'm the revolutionary subject. I'm just too busy.
>>2618279Rip to mu favourite lady of that year.
>>2617924Mao was Chinese Robespierre. Marx is still right.
>>2617656"You've talked about how the US should be governed by a monarchy, a CEO monarchy" had me chuckling. The fact that a newsnight reporter has to even say that is pathetic.
>>2617590the interviewer did push back on yarvin.
>>2617924>Marx said that the proletariat formed the primary body of revolutionary subjects in society.did he? he says here that the communists as elite members of proletarian parties are the agents of revolution:
<In what relation do the Communists stand to the proletarians as a whole? […] The Communists, therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class parties of every country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the line of march, the conditions, and the ultimate general results of the proletarian movement.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htmlenin makes the same comment, criticising all independent efforts of the working class:
<The history of all countries shows that the working class, exclusively by its own effort, is able to develop only trade union consciousness, i.e., the conviction that it is necessary to combine in unions, fight the employers, and strive to compel the government to pass necessary labour legislation, etc.[2] The theory of socialism, however, grew out of the philosophic, historical, and economic theories elaborated by educated representatives of the propertied classes, by intellectuals. By their social status the founders of modern scientific socialism, Marx and Engels, themselves belonged to the bourgeois intelligentsia.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/witbd/ii.htmso the workers in themselves are not revolutionary; its the intellectuals who are.
>So, In the UK in 2026, which socio-economic grouping will form the basis for being our revolutionary subject?its the same difference; mind moves matter.
>>2618635Why don't you read the sources in your copypasta bullshit. Or are you too "intellectual" for that?
<The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to the other working-class parties.<They have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a whole.<They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the proletarian movement. The communists are a
working-class party, this is explicitly said in the Manifesto.
Kill yourself and your whole family, Smith Anon.
>>2617596You WILL learn Jerusalem, you WILL be surprised when they actually bring our incense, you WILL raise money for refugees from an obscure christian minority.
>>2617894UK is also used because Northern Ireland isn't on the island of Britain/Great Britain. He is right its a fake concept but yeah.
>>2618751read what lenin says about trade-union consciousness
>>2617924There isn't going to be a revolution. Marx talking about revolutions has leftists thinking every single production mode ends with a big battle of Good and Evil. The transition from capitalism to socialism from here on out is going to look like many civil wars starting, ending and starting again, simply because economic growth is going to plateau and begin fall in different places at different times.
In Britain, economic growth is basically already dead and has been for a while. All that remains now is for things to get gradually more expensive and for shop shelves to not be shelved full of products all time.
>>2618967There is no descending slope to capitalism. Mods, permaban this revisionist.
>>2618970a) I said growth will decrease, not that there's a descending slope
b) There will be a descending slope, though this will be exiting the capitalist regime. That doesn't mean life will be rosy though. Whether there's socialism or not, the amount of labour you put in to receive the same amount of resources will have to increase just because we're depleting the easy oil.
Despise this island
An island of war and the slovenly adulation of its imperial wealth, where none other than the dictate of profit commands the reproduction of social life. In which the totality of human existence is geared towards its own exploitation for the unceasing domination of its ruling classes. A society sustained by open hypocrisy and blatant repression, both domestic and abroad.
The freedom imposed by the barbarity of reason inherent in bourgeois civil society is one of slavery, it is the material unfreedom of a class which pitted against itself finds a banquet for those loyal to its masters and table scraps for the rest.
To live here is a poison of the soul
>>2619767a bit dramatic, mate.
>>2619493We did it anglos. We prevented polish migration and replaced them with indians. EU will later integrate hindu anglostan
certainly an improvment to previous owners with rest of Europe.
>>2619772>indiansthats optimistic
>>2619771Words can't capture my disgust and revulsion.
The filth of consumerism, in which every social act and its incumbent logic finds mediation through money. Wherein even surface opposition to its agenda serves the purpose of legitimation. No phrase can articulate the contempt felt and reserved for those of this nation who abide their chains.
Death to the bourgeoisie
Happy New Year :)
Maybe a bit weird but if someone isn't depressed (and common, middle classes dont apply) in this country i tend to think either there is probably something wrong with them mentally.
>>2619972theres being a cynical brit,
then theres being a whinge.
>>2619767You are perversely too optimistic, America takes the imperial plunder and Britain has nothing, barely even money laundering. Our ruling classes would be a thousand times better were their only dictat profit and the market: no, they're mostly mediocre and subsidized by the state in ways neither our "free marketeers" nor our socdems (nonexistent) would touch effectively.
This is cause for optimism: an evil system can last indefinitely (see the yanks) but economic reality will come for Britain one day or another.
Unless we wind up like a shittier Japan, which is eminently possible. We're more corrupt - that didn't used to be true! - and build less… >>2619772yeah maybe don't blame the people who got scammed, rather the ones who are responsible for it.
>>2619784>Wherein even surface opposition … serves the purpose of legitimationyeah that's called 'framing the debate'
>>2620449In this case the people who got scammed mostly deserved it. Anti-immigration thoughts are an ugly vice and if you indulge them by voting to get rid of all the Polish immigrants, it is a morality tale worthy of the brothers Grimm that you wind up getting a greater number of Indian immigrants instead.
Britishers stole 800 trillion from India
>>2620448This is so scummy. THese cunts were borne here, raised here, went through our education system, some instances were sent off with the aid of our intel agencies etc, etc. they are a product of our country.
We can't just be leaving them in NE Syria saying, 'lmao your problem not ours, good luck Syrians!'.
It's going to lead to blowback down the line.
>>2620567exile used to be a common form of punishment in england.
>>2615812Nobody of value in British politics takes time to complain about Stalinism and only idiots have ever done that
>>2620601im educating you on how things are instead of presenting mindless pontifications
>>2620538you're cutting your nose off to spite your face, seeing as you are a pleb and will get screwed by the same people for the same reason.
Anyone notice how everything is shit and nothing works any more? Printers are like some ancient black magic. We had that cracked 20 years ago, plug the bastard in and away you go.
>>2620641Brother (ブラザー) laser printers are considered reliable.
>>2620640No I won't because
1. I'll never vote for ugly things
2. When I vote for nice things I'm not naive enough to believe they'll actually happen
The situation simply can't arise
>>2620673so you'll vote for greeny jewish man to shift the overton window to the hell dimension from event horizon, gotcha
>We may soon have to live in mud huts, and here's why that's a good thing
>We may soon need to liquefy the dead to feed them intravenously to the living, and here's why that's a good thing
>We may soon need to eat insects and…
oh no we're already doing that one
>>2617924Seriously you need to read report on the investigation into the peasant uprising in Hunan…
>>2620721as someone once said:
peasants riot
elites revolt
>>2620641Nah, printers have always been like this.
I actually need one and have for a year but have not bought one because it's really fucking confusing, they're famously temperamental in general wrt software and trying to find one that i know i won't be paying through the nose on ink is a nightmare.
I would get one that has ink wells where you can just pour it in from the bottle, but i can't really drop 300 quid on a printer just for decent and reliable ink prices.
If someone can link me a cheap printer that has cheap ink please do, it doesn't have to last forever, i just want to be able to put a lot through it whilst it last.
>>2620735they are doing away with the printing press
its all digital now; a paperless future.
>>2617343>Apparently Henry didn't have the intellect to get the hint and/or lacked the patience to wait for the war between the Papal States and HRE to end before asking for a divorce.Henry VIII was not dumb. It is just that everything else was less important to him than birthing a male heir. His father founded a dynasty with a very shaky claim to the throne, and without an heir he had a legitimate fear that his dynasty would go extinct and England would collapse again into civil war like during the War of the Roses.
>>2620729The people rebel, and they will build the new society out of blood.
>>2620735I bought a Brother HL-31401CW about 10 years ago brand new for 90 quid. Built like a brick shit house and I've not needed to replace the ink yet. It's the software I am complaining about, my old linux laptop didn't even need to find a 'driver' (not that the computer is driving anything) it just worked.
I don't know why this is now a printer thread, but you might want to read this:
<Printer tracking dots, also known as printer steganography, DocuColor tracking dots, yellow dots, secret dots, or a machine identification code (MIC), are a digital watermark which many color laser printers and photocopiers produce on every printed page that identifies the specific device that was used to print the document. Developed by Xerox and Canon in the mid-1980s, awareness of these tracking codes became public only in 2004.
<The pattern consists of a dot-matrix spread of yellow dots, which can barely be seen with the naked eye. The dots have a diameter of one-tenth millimetre (0.004 in) and a spacing of about one millimetre (0.04 in). Their arrangement encodes the serial number of the device, date and time of the printing, and is repeated several times across the printing area in case of errors. For example, if the code consists of 8 × 16 dots in a square or hexagonal pattern, it spreads over a surface of about 4 square centimetres (0.62 sq in) and appears on a sheet of size A4 paper about 150 times. Thus, it can be analyzed even if only fragments or excerpts are available.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots>>2621055that's mel gibson
>>2608788
<yet polls show the people most scared of immigration/non white people in the UK are the ones that don't live around non white people already.
Presumably because they moved away when the migrants moved into their area of the city
I've seen this line of thinking alot recently and i think people are missing the pretty obvious answer here that the guys that don't like living with non-brits simply moved away from them over the past decade and the remaining 30% that stay either don't care or like them which effects these polls
>>2621086also the migrant heavy areas are clearly not going to give two hoots about it
Will parliament talk about what grok has been used for over the last week?
It's got to the point there's a popular tweet encouraging edits of Priti Patel.
Not that it's anything new, but that kind of exploitation seems to have gotten considerably and publicly widespread
>>2621160>Will parliament talk aboutActually on that note, is there a way to see the agenda for the day? And how far in advance is it published?
>>2621161the house of commons is currently in recess til the 5th of jan, but you can still see the schedule here:
https://whatson.parliament.uk/Commons/2026-01-05 >>2621162Thanks. Looks like the oral questions are published a week in advance
>>2621086This isn't new, has always been this way.
Berlin was relatively tolerant, the germs in germ-norfolk and germ-sunderland despised the jews despite never seeing them.
From Bristol i only start seeing the red cross and other troglodyte graffiti when i drive far enough from the city and out into the sticks.
>>2621256Bristol is a very left wing town though, so of course you are going to see that. It's also a very divided town, the Clifton area is where all the posh twats live and those are the main culprits, is the point being raised.
>>2621086I don't think this will come up as strongly as you'd think. Anti immigration types are low openness (e.g. less likely to move to a new place, even if their hometown is a shithole) and anti immigration towns are usually shitholes any sane person would leave and no sane person would voluntarily move to.
There are some white-flight riddled places, sure (especially in Scotland and Wales where it's easy to just track the number of English people) but not enough to account for the scale of the problem.
To be a socialist in modern Britain is to face an abject void in the realm of political organising, in which so called left spaces find themselves occupied by the projects of would be bourgeois subjects whose visions for change amount to little more than demonstrations and the verbal haranguing of the establishment. There is no serious opposition, both in the sense that there is no objective force counter to the bourgeois liberal establishment on which it does not overlap in the end to achieve power solely through electoral strategies, and in the other one which can offer a coherent ideological doctrine that informs, educates, and mounts resistance for its adherents.
The liberatory potential of orthodox Marxist and the scientific socialist positions have become archaisms: none the more can this be seen in the substitution of its terminology. In place of a language which aims to revolutionise the shackles of daily capitalist life based on a class perspective, instead we now have moralising terminologies in which every protest moment is steeped - achieving nothing more than the self-legitimisation of the very class it seeks to oppose.
In place of the bourgeoisie, we have the rich.
In place of Capital, social media campaigns.
The new electoral strategy of these parties isn't the radical education of its supporters but one of mass pacification through consumption, achieved primarily through PR strategies. Thus as hostile as a member of the SWP or the CPGB may be to the capitalist order, their primary occupation is with the engagement of social media in order to claim 'victory' through spectral representation which never amounts to anything more than the quantified usage statistics of X or Y digital platform; this is not to say that these platforms cannot find use in informing individuals, but simply that the end result is one inevitably driven by capital.
To be a socialist in Britain, in which one's perspective is rooted in a historicised view of society, is itself the product of the alienation which endures in capitalist society suis generis; in a society in which the individual is an apportioned product of its own alienated reproduction, that is the consumption of its own alien essence, the task of the modern socialist should be one of the radical education of its members to a revolutionary position, in the sense that it can be termed revolutionary to the extent that it does away with the prevailing bourgeois false ideological dogmas which are 'natural' to its population.
Instead of a revolutionary position however, one in which party members are committed to the overthrow of capitalism, the socialists of Britain are demagogues inured to a socialism occupied solely with the preservation of the bourgeois property form.
There is no objective historical bloc.
Cries for a revolutionary vanguard are the empty promises of individuals who have become radicalised to the perpetuation of their own strains for the self-preservation of their position. They do not take stock of their positions on a historical class basis.
With the lack of time and resistance, a Fascist revolution on the basis of the organising pressures which have mounted themselves globally through the organisation of the bourgeoisie is inevitable.
There is no left in Britain, and Capitalist society in its current political form cannot meet the demands that will be placed upon itself.
Anyone want to form a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist party in the UK?
2026 Predictions:
Today - APR
USA will drone strike Maduro.
MARCH - JULY
US fleet moves into pacific in anticipation of Chinese invasion of Taiwan
FEB - AUGUST
Collapse of the Iranian Regime
OCT - DEC
Very high chance of China invading Taiwan. If they don't do it this year it has to be next year, or they don't do it all.
OTHER EVENTS:
AI bubble could collapse.
English riots in the summer again since that's an annual thing now.
Trump loses the 2026 midterms until he can "rig" it.
United Kingdom local elections are scheduled to take place on Thursday 7 May 2026, so make sure you go out an vote if you can.
Possible hostility between Saudi Arabia and UAE, breakup of OPEC?
>>2621408>There are some white-flight riddled places, sure (especially in Scotland and Wales where it's easy to just track the number of English people) but not enough to account for the scale of the problem.From what i can find London alone had 600,000 brits leave between 2001-2011
Its probably over a million by now, those million people went somewhere and chances are they aren't big fans of diversity and multiculturalism
>>2621984emigration is rather high in the UK in general:
<In the year ending June 2025, net emigration of British citizens was estimated at 109,000https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/i believe ed dutton said that the trend of white flight will continue indefinitely, leading to greater voluntary segregation (such as the "white-only" communities we see in both south africa and the US).
as i have shown in regard to the revolutionary propaganda of the 17th century in england (e.g. "the norman yoke"), all nations in some sense depend upon myths of their identity. ancient greeks had homer's iliad, which spoke of various lineages. the romans had virgil's aeneid, which built on the greek myths. the britons then had nennius and geoffrey of monmouth, who built off of virgil, by citing brutus of troy as the first king of britain. nennius and geoffrey also speak of king arthur, whose myth is massively spread thereafter, in england, france and germany. the new myth of ww2 as a battle between good and evil, leading to world peace and an end of history, is the basis of a new national foundation, as george ower says. yet, the crumbling of this narrative, by criticism and disunity, shows its illusion. britain itself as a political entity only begins in 1707, after a civil war (1642), and revolution (1688), ultimately leading to a foreign king usurping the throne, after a puritan republic was restored to a monarchy, led by an unpopular, catholic absolutist. here, britain has always been at war with itself, as george ower admits.
as marx also cites, the progress of primitive accumulation, by vagabond acts, dissolution of the monasteries, clearing of the estates, etc. was a one-sided class war against the majority of the population, by its own government (which by 1816, robert owen reports has reached these figures):
<According to the last returns under the Population Act, the poor and working classes of Great Britain and Ireland have been found to exceed fifteen millions of persons, or nearly three-fourths of the population of the British Islands.https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/economics/owen/society/ch01.htmso then, how are we a "united kingdom" (c. 1801) when we have been made enemies? as i said earlier, ower needs a clearer position of class antagonism, to understand that an abstraction like "the nation" has no concrete reality outside of its relationship to class. as i have related on the subject of black GIs fighting in ww2, what exactly is the "america" they are fighting for, if it has no respect for them? further, on religion - christianity. okay, but whose christianity?
Decided to check out what the BBC are saying about the American oil terrorist regime change, and no surprises, they're just endlessly glazing the far right MAGAoid opposition leader nobel piss prize winner as some superwoman who is going to free Venezuela into becoming a capitalist paradise.
>>2623523
It's not that people started to respect religious beliefs, it's that people started to understand the coalitions they were in and how that helps distinguish them from other people. On the left, they realized the middle east is a shithole because of imperialist meddling rather than religion (simply true: see muslim-majority Malaysia or the 100%-muslim citizenship of the Maldives) and on the right, atheists realizing that LARPing as a tradcath who wants to finish the crusades is more fun than debating Trumpists who're otherwise totally game for your neocon warmongering agenda.
There are, glibly, two main types of ex New-Atheist: social justice warriors, and people who go out to bad for Israel's right to defend itself.
Judaism is a separate case because nobody cares about Jewish religion, it's the fact they're an ethno-religious group that qualifies them for special treatment. Similarly, though it's impolite to say, the reason Islamophobia is a problem is because it's clearly motivated by racism because despite the existence of Azzam Al-Britani, muslims aren't exactly 50% white by volume. Racism and xenophobia are the big ticket items (this is also why BLM was so big, for example), religion is just set dressing. (how could it be anything else in a society like Britain that does not take it at all seriously, a society half atheists and half people who don't realize that if you only go to church for weddings and funerals then you're still an atheist, or a society like America where your disneyland megachurch is perhaps the most sinful heresy ever conceived?)
>>2624355>criticism of islam is motivated by racismis criticism of judaism anti-semitic?
>>2623523well, religion became racialised in england, with the popularity of the term "islamophobia" beginning in 1997. it was set in law by the EA2010 which lists religion as a "protected characteristic" of a person, making it formally illegal to discriminate against someone's religion, establishing blasphemy laws in kind. now, others say that this is to be interpreted as protecting the believer, not the beliefs themselves. yet, where exactly do beliefs come from, if not believers? we have always had a struggle with religious tolerance in this country, fighting against for and against anti-catholic sentiments (where catholics were barred from parliament til 1829), and have had sectarian violence (i referenced "the killing time" in scotland, 1679-90), so we cannot claim to be as "secular" as we would like, especially with a king who is head of the church of england. we appear to be reverting, however. of course, we shouldnt be a hateful society, but the rightful criticism of religion must be defended as an unconditional freedom and virtue, lest we live in a theocracy.
>>2624382Look, you can't play this game itt. Only like 5 people post here. One of them has already come up with the theory that leftists love context and rightoids love wanking over definitions, one of us loves it, I remember it, you're someone else, and that only leaves one third party who (statistically) is also familiar.
I can short circuit the whole thing by just pointing out you're playing the rightoid role here. I, naturally, play the lefty one: religion causes me zero trouble in daily life. the most i encounter it is in fiction.
Islam and Judaism are irrelevant. They could be fans of Dengism and Deltarune for all it matters. If all the Deng fans live in Bradford and aren't white, and all the Deltarune fans live in a nice part of London and are white, you're going to find that Labour are very glad to be shaking off the Dengist fleas and very unhappy that the left are insufficiently sensitive to the nuances of Susie x Noelle shipping.
The nonsense around "Protected philosophical beliefs" demonstrates that a secular EA2010 administered by the same people would still be a wanker's charter even without a religious carve out.
>>2624421>gamebut you said criticism of islam is racist
which basically means we shouldnt criticise islam
i say that islam can have have racial connotations, but that it is fundamentally "the motherload of bad ideas", as sam harris once said, so what am i supposed to think? help me figure it out.
>>2624437I think you should believe whatever you like, so long as you don't impose it onto other people, and the only ones who do that are those bald lads who sit cross legged all the time
>>2624498we can believe what we like, but should we be able to criticise what we like?
>>2624519shouldn't need to if everyone just keeps it to themselves
So the question becomes; why can't people keep religion personal?
>>2624540you must be against the palestine action protestors then, making a scene out of all this genocide stuff, cos, as you say, people should just keep it to themselves - and thats obviously why youre on this public forum, to keep quiet. 🙄👍
>>2624576religion is a mind virus (what dawkins describes as a "meme", e.g. "the god delusion") that seeks to spread itself by conquest and conversion. religion was never private.
>>2624587exactly, it is a memetic replicator
>>2624580I think the people who were guilty of breaking and entering a military base should face the full consequences of their actions, but to tar the entire group for the actions of a few is a gross overreach of justice and should serve to remind you who is in charge
>>2624605right, so atheism should spread instead of islam and christianity.
>>2624621i hope youre not this annoying in real life.
>>2624587best case scenario is it is passed down to children, but in the case of islam and judaism, that has led to it being very racially orientated. And where you maintain sharp borders you shall cause friction
>>2624634>in real lifeyou're going to have to let go of this concept sooner or later
>>2624437Islam is a bad idea that has never harmed me one bit
New atheism has lead you to reply to me in a stupid fashion
QED.
>>2624774which is more correct? islam or atheism?
>>2624802Fundamentally unknowable but you're making a good case for reverting to Islam on the pragmatic ground that Atheists apparently spend their time being tedious on leftypol.org
>>2624820>unknowablewhat? islam is an arabic fairy tale, obviously.
what happened to the left to become so cowardly?
it's always fun to watch a conversation where one poster clearly starts out making an effort and is quickly worn down by some freak only interested in their own narrow point.
my new year's resolution is to kill myself if i'm still here in january 2027
>>2624882>youre a freak if you are against religion (aka plato's noble lie)tragic to see the left fall for this bullshit.
of course, i know you are an atheist too, but are just taking the condescending position of the master over the slaves - while i am trying to tell people the truth. as marx writes:
<Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1843/critique-hpr/intro.htm "International human rights lawyer" Sir Keir Starmer has said he can't determine whether what the USA did was illegal until Trump tells him what to think & say.
We live in a a puppet state, and that puppet has the appearance of a clown.
>>2625261the UK has been a vassal state for the US empire for a while now, and its only got worse since brexit.
>>2625261This is just key jangling
eyes on Palestine
>>2625486>maduro bad<hence, bomb innocent civiliansgotcha.
>>2626683is it illegal to suggest a conflict of interest? I think it probably is
>>2626797Obviously DC grants himself to lie whenever it suits him, but his tales of dysfunction in the upper levels of the UK elite appeal to my biases.
>>2626798Zarah seemed to start the new year by attacking the greens.
Not that I don't enjoy a good green pile on, but it was embarrassingly hypocritical seeing her claim the greens are giving money to Israel after she was complicit in improving Labour's budget
>>2626958Greens have been negative campaigning aginst Zarah for a while now, whenever she does anything that gets posted online they spam the comments that you should join greens because she is a splitter and ruined YP and is a woman(bad).
I am sure greens deserve it.
>>2626958The Scottish Greens are imperialist simp austerians they deserve it.
>>2626958>>2626964The worst part is that it was the Scottish Greens, not the English Greens.
The Scottish Greens are a bit shit, but Zarah (like all English leftists) clearly knows nothing about Scottish politics and put her foot in it. Her source for the Greens voting to give money to Israel was that an SNP minister met with AirBnB when consulting on a law about short term lets, which AirBnB lobbied against but which was passed anyway.
So it's an attack best aimed at the SNP, and it's not even in the top 50 worst things the SNP have done!
Corbyn's Labour had this problem too. They'd attack the SNP using the lines that Scottish Labour gave them, not realizing that Scottish Labour is a nest of right-wing Blairites who loathe and detest Corbyn and who'd vote to blow up the world if they found the SNP were against that. All it did was alienate left-wing Scots by reminding them of (a) Labour's sense of entitlement to Scottish votes and (b) Corbyn's complete ignorance of Scottish affairs.
English leftists would do better to admit that they don't really care about Scotland. Failing that, they should be largely banned from negative campaigning and forced to campaign only for positive things. Ideally, positive and legal things. (English Leftists love an occasional "just set an illegal budget!" as a last-minute cop out when they're reminded that austerity at holyrood almost entirely flow from decisions taken at Westminster, so blaming it on Holyrood parties just makes you look out of touch. Until Your Party has an MSP capable of voting for a budget, it's a LARP policy.)
>>2626983This gives them too much credit. They're just amateurs. Possibly the least bad party in Scotland at the moment (Your Party to me seems a primarily English phenomenon, attacking the Scottish Greens reinforces this impression) but they are complete and utter amateurs held up entirely by the voter appeal of the "Green" name (basically: it gets you "left of SNP" voters, environmentalists, and apolitical do-gooders without much effort) and a proportional electoral system.
You shouldn't get too mad about 90% of what they say because it is basically apolitical. Apolitical in the sense that it is thoughtless, rather than that it lacks political impact. I've forgotten the quote now, but when some of their MSPs held cabinet posts they said many things that indicated that they were so out of their depth it was like someone'd given the work experience kid a cabinet post. It's not even like Starmer's ministers where their surely-they-know incompetence should be counted against them. These people are simply empty headed.
People who barely knew what being an MSP entailed suddenly thrown an offer of a cabinet role by Nicola Sturgeon. (Entirely cynically: if the Greens were bound by cabinet collective responsibility, they couldn't vote against her at the Covid inquiry.) How, in their total ignorance, could they refuse?
From Monday (tomorrow) it will be illegal for junk food/fast food adverts to air on TV before 9 PM.
There's no such restrictions on alcohol advertisements however.
Thoughts?
>>2627032My thoughts are it ought to be obvious to anyone that the government’s relentless banning spree has nish to do with crime rates.
>>2627032watching the footy rn and its rife with pro-gambling adverts. the idea is hypocritical until they tackle all social ills.
>>2627042crime is good for the government since it gives them an excuse to expand. like how illegal immigration is cited as a reason that we need digital ID
>>2626798Both are dem soc / soc dem clowns who are tearing apart the left, encompassing every embarrassing stereotype about infighting and splitting.
Sick of seeing whacky personality cultists on both sides constantly blaming the other faction.
Your party is not going to win any MP seats and has already been infiltrated by rapey SWP Trot types and conservative muslim anti-LGBT activists.
Honestly? Let them run around in circles with their petty infighting, when Reform wins the next election actual communists can seize on the backlash to form a genuinely progressive revolutionary anti-electoralist Marxist party.
>>2627047>anti-electoralist Marxist partywhy would marxists be anti-electoralist?
<Surely, at such a moment, the voice ought to be heard of a man [marx] whose whole theory is the result of a lifelong study of the economic history and condition of England, and whom that study led to the conclusion that, at least in Europe, England is the only country where the inevitable social revolution might be effected entirely by peaceful and legal means. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/p6.htm british marxism is a dead end. you can have a british socialism incorporating some insights from marx, sure, but marxism as such is doomed and dead. this is not a country where theory is going to sell. going around with your book just makes people wonder how your ancestors dodged being put on the boat to america with all the other cranks.
but it's not polite to say it.
>>2627050Because clearly bourgeois electoralism doesn't permit for socialism to win simply by the nature of how it operates.
The ideologies of Kautsky and Lassalle have been proven entirely ineffective at developing socialism for over a century now.
Also, Marx wasn't perfectly correct in all his predictions. We do not treat him as a God and his word and Biblical truth. For example the first successful proletarian revolution was in backwards Russia, not in industrialised Germany.
Even so he never said socialism would be achievable via bourgeois electoralism. Conflating that with peaceful revolution is an error.
The situation has changed drastically in the 154 since Marx said Britain could have a peaceful socialist revolution.
>>2627072I was watching a docu on Indian caste systems, and part of it is to separate families into specialist producers. A fishing caste, a pottery caste and so on. That gt me to thinking it was basically communism.
If you think Marxism is unworkable then why do you even bother coming here? Why don't you just join the Greens already? Or just give up on politics altogether?
If the majority of a people are unfamiliar or skeptical of a science then it is up to those of us who understand it to educate, not to shrug our shoulders and give up.
>>2627076Do you know what the term communism even means?
>>2627072>kautsky was wrong>lassalle was wrong>marx was also wrongnot great.
>For example the first successful proletarian revolution was in backwards Russia, not in industrialised Germany.it was a peasant revolution lead by intellectuals, the same as in china.
>Even so he never said socialism would be achievable via bourgeois electoralism. Conflating that with peaceful revolution is an error.lel. define "peaceful and legal revolution" for us.
>>2627076communism is about abolishing the division of labour
>>2627078>sciencelets not start this malarkey.
>>2627080>The root word of communism is the Latincommunis, meaning "common" or "shared"
>>2627047Your Party is the best organized thing kind-of-maybe-sort-of left of the Greens. If Your Party is a total organizational disaster, any post-Reform attempt at a non-electoral communist party is going to fail in an even worse fashion. (Most likely by being completely irrelevant, like our already-extant non-electoral communist parties nobody gives a fuck about until they attention-seek by tweeting about total transhumanist death or whatever.) "Oh, just let them fail, then reform, then ????, then communism!"
You cannot rely on your enemies fixing your problems for you. The failure to engage seriously with questions of organization building and management, in particular: with setting practically achievable goals with proper failure standards, accountability and oversight, is the fundamental thing that tells you that nobody is taking their politics seriously. Oh, they take the theoretical debates very seriously indeed - reform or revolution, what a lark! - but constructing a party capable of either? That's
work, fuck that.
My one regret in life is that I realized this so late. It's all a game and it isn't even a fun one. Not one piece of political knowledge I hold is of any practical use whatsoever. >>2627081>communism is about abolishing the division of labourwhat does that even mean in practical terms? We get robots to do everything?
>>2627081Yes, Kautsky and Lassalle were wrong. I never said Marx was wrong in a general sense, only that you shouldn't take his every offhand remark and unquestionable eternal fact.
And yes, dialectical materialism is a science.
Again, I'll reiterate this is a leftist website and while you don't have to be a leftist to post here, maybe the Green Party is more your place if you're happy to give up on most leftist principles and tolerate a progressive social democracy.
For some reason my phone keeps autocorrecting "as" to "and" and it's driving me insane. My apologies.
>>2627094This website still has scars in its neck from deepthroating Corbyn and Sanders so hard and this thread is kept on life support only by developments in bourgeois electoral politics, arguments over historical bourgeois electoral politics, and weird right-wing derailments. You cannot credibly tell someone to leave for insufficient adherence to the one true faith.
>>2627092if you 'abolish the division of labour' does that mean everyone gets to dabble in a bit of brain surgery every now and then?
>>2627094>dialectical materialism is a science.biology, physics, chemistry… erm.. *checks notes* - dialectical materialism; a new branch of natural science!
>this is a leftist websitewhich isnt synonymous with "marxist" btw.
>>2627092in the german ideology, marx appears to suggest that we share labour, rather than specialise. he also says in critique of the gotha programme that the antagonism betweel intellectual and manual labour will vanish:
<In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly – only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htmso make of this what you will.
>>2627102>biology, physics, chemistry… erm.. *checks notes* - dialectical materialism; a new branch of natural science!Why are you even posting here
>>2627103dialectical materialism is a science, like you said.
why so glum?
diuretical materialism
*pees*
>>2627102>From each according to his abilityso he isn't advocating for the division of labour to be abolished, he wanted a merit based system
>>2627112no, he suggests a merit-based system in early communism, but scraps that for a welfare state in higher communism. he also specifies the "vanishing" of the division of labour:
<What we have to deal with here is a communist society, not as it has developed on its own foundations, but, on the contrary, just as it emerges from capitalist society; which is thus in every respect, economically, morally, and intellectually, still stamped with the birthmarks of the old society from whose womb it emerges. Accordingly, the individual producer receives back from society – after the deductions have been made – exactly what he gives to it […] He receives a certificate from society that he has furnished such-and-such an amount of labor (after deducting his labor for the common funds); and with this certificate, he draws from the social stock of means of consumption as much as the same amount of labor cost. The same amount of labor which he has given to society in one form, he receives back in another […] But one man is superior to another physically, or mentally, and supplies more labor in the same time, or can labor for a longer time; and labor, to serve as a measure, must be defined by its duration or intensity, otherwise it ceases to be a standard of measurement. This equal right is an unequal right for unequal labor […] But these defects are inevitable in the first phase of communist society as it is when it has just emerged after prolonged birth pangs from capitalist society […] In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly – only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm >>2627120communism can never be defined without referencing 'capitalism' which makes me think it's a load of bollocks. Also it's right there
>From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs! so you've got the fishing caste, and they are the best at fishing because it is a set of skills and tools passed down through family, and they supply fish to those that cannot catch fish for themselves.
Marx nicked his ideas from Indian culture.
Communism refers to a stateless, classless, moneyless society - ie the higher stage of socialism.
I'm beginning to think none of you have read theory.
>>2627129Marx litteraly praised British colonialism for destroying Indian backwardness
>>2627127yes, after the "narrow horizon" of "bourgeois right" (i.e. each person receiving what they give), then society is oriented toward sharing the social product. the quote itself is seemingly a reference to the book of acts, where members of the early church share their wealth:
<“To each according to needs” comes from the Book of Acts documenting the practices of early Christian communities in Jerusalem. In the Book of Acts, believers “were together and had all things in common” and sold their possessions and distributed the proceeds within the community “as any had needs.” […] “From each according to ability,” is likewise found in the Book of Acts: “So the disciples determined, everyone according to his ability, to send relief to the brothers living in Judea.” Cabet and Blanc both construed this phrase as a call for Christian servitude […] “To each according to works” occurs at many junctions in the Bible. For example, St. Paul’s Letter to the Romans […] The phrase is also found it in First Corinthians…https://theconversation.com/from-each-according-to-ability-to-each-according-to-need-tracing-the-biblical-roots-of-socialisms-enduring-slogan-138365>>2627129if you are interested in this topic, i would suggest you look into how trade unions come from medieval guilds, which is also where cults like the freemasons supposedly come from (beginning with king athelstan's protection of the masons from 924-39 AD, according to the "matthew cooke" manuscript, 1450 AD).
>>2627145trade unions are the opposite of communism, they are protectionist. If they are not producing in accordance with their ability, then someone else should do it.
>>2626850i enjoy political science, and DC's claims that its really the cabinet office that is sovereign, not parliament, is at least an interesting proposition. in terms of competency crises, DC references 19th century figures like pitt and bismarck being good politicians, and if we see when the cabinet office is established in 1916, this is also the time where someone like peter hitchens says that the UK goes awry. the focus on the ECHR seems rather too presentist, since the decline of law in britain has momentum before this new constitution.
Sick and tired of living in an American puppet state. Hate this bullshit.
>>2627385Yep, going to get all the lame shit like £50,000 ambulance fares, but not the cool shit like guns and McMansions
has anyone here watched 28 years later?
it was written by alex garland, who also wrote "civil war" (2024), and 28 years later appears to be similarly commentative. you have a notably racially homogeneous scottish village, which descends into moral collapse, leading a child to want to go to england with his mother. in england, he finds a mostly fat, elderly white race of bottomfeeding zombies which eat insects and worms from the ground. you have physically exaggerated "alphas", the main one being portayed by an ethnic minority. you have incompetent military resistance, and a posh witch doctor who is managing the decline of civilisation in a proficient and pacifistic way (e.g. by condescension of his natural right over the land), even when alphas attack him (placing the child's mother's bones on a stack of thousands, showing how he is a witness to death, nothing more; not a saviour, but a eulogist). the conclusion of the film is a non-volatile zombie baby (mixed with the alpha) being imported into the scottish village, while a gang of jimmy saville impersonators (yes, literally) save the scottish kid in his lone journey.
there seems to be a message here, so can anyone help me piece it together? it certainly seems like the idea is that england is dead, and those of high status are the midwives of inevitable anarchy, which also has its tranquility if one submits to it. do not stop collapse; let nature take its course (the sacred imagery of the film is also entirely pagan, with anti-christian sentiments put in, or rather fulfilled, as "the day of judgement").
>>2627419Just appeals to the common boomer belief that the UK is heading for a “reset”.
>>2627419I've not seen it, everything is propaganda now
Hilarious that some of you rationalise your abandonment to bourgeois electoralism as somehow a necessity.
The demand is revolution: it is for the abolition of bourgeois society and the shackles of wage slavery. There is no other end: Your Party will not offer you a vision for a socialist society, but a social democratic and hence i.e. a bourgeois one.
There is no solution but the communist one.
>>2627419The kid (Spike) isn't Scottish, he was born on the island up in Northumbria, with his parents who are also implied by their accents to be local. That's where the film takes place, the tidal island of Lindisfarne and the surrounding coastal mainland. The Scottish scene at the beginning is the backstory for the leader of the Jimmy Savile gang (he later is shown wearing the cross given to him by his father, the priest, in the opening scene, revealing his identity).
In terms of the symbolism of the film, it's very much a based in a post-Brexit liberal analysis of contemporary Britain - the British island is literally subjected to a military blockade as a pariah infected nation. In this backdrop, time has stopped. The island community of Lindisfarne appears to have adopted traditional gender roles and run along the lines of a medieval village (notably without Lords or economic exploitation). They have a celebration with mead/ ale in a traditional village hall style building, complete with union jack bunting and a portrait of the Queen. The military tradition of the British/ English people is emphasised with reprises of montage shots of English peasants at Agincourt and shots of Henry V, with the background of Boots by Kipling. The main weapons used are longbows.
The country is now divided between those who had reached consciousness before time stopped in 2002, and the young who were born during or immediately after. Spike begins his story oblivious to modernity and to the obvious uncomfortable truth of his mother's terminal condition. He doesn't understand basic concepts like cancer because of his sheltered upbringing. There are no schools nor sources of information over than a handful of neighbours and family, who keep him in the dark - the idea that an isolationist Britain post Brexit is forging its own illiberal and selective national identity and understanding of our history. Seeing a mobile phone for the first time is mystifying; a Hamlet joke by the doctor character goes completely over his head. Spike lives in an England without an identity in the ruins of a world he will never know - a world which stopped in 2002, and will slowly fade out of existence as the people who witnessed it die off.
That's about as much as I picked up. I really enjoyed the film and look forward to the sequel. Oh, and 28 Weeks no longer being recognised as canon is big improvement to the lore.
>>2627475I agree. But I worry about how we should go about convincing and educating people on this. And in addition, do we merely attempt to educate a select vanguard or attempt to spread the message to the masses.
Seemingly there are individuals even here who will argue in defence of the potential for gradual reform within bourgeois democracy being the answer.
This is even despite all the evidence of 100+ years of such a system being in place and still no successes by so-called democratic socialism. How depressing.
>>2627475I see you haven't engaged with
>>2627086At all.
Nobody believes Your Party can deliver reformism (it probably can't even get a seat in Holyrood!), let alone socialism, let alone a revolution. You are posting as though you've fallen through a time portal from 2017 when people still naively believed that better things were possible. The problem you refuse to engage with is: if the left cannot achieve even the low, symbolic gesturing of Your Party, how the fuck is it going to organise the much more difficult task of revolution?
The answer is that it isn't capable of doing so. It isn't even capable of building the capability. It shows no signs of even being capable of recognising the depths of its incapacity.
You have no answer to this problem. You just want to feel clever. You have no serious answers - just do a revolution, just be communist. Just do it, as though it were buying a book of stamps.
Ironically you would come across smarter if you were optimistic about Your Party. You would then make the forgivable mistake of being a naive reformist rather than the unforgivable sin of being a LARPing fantasist who hasn't even
tried to worldbuild some grounding for his fantasy.
>>2627512>They have a celebration with mead/ ale in a traditional village hall style building, Worth saying they are playing traditional music on accordions with miners' banners behind them.
>>2627562>if the left cannot achieve even the low, symbolic gesturing of Your Party, how the fuck is it going to organise the much more difficult task of revolution?There is no cohesive 'left'; these parties represent the particular factions of the political strut which are shaped by and support capitalist society. Their supporters do not wish to see a revolution because ultimately they are not socialists, let alone communists. They are inured to the structure and their own position within their western imperial nation; Your Party represents the bourgeois sentimentalism of an electorate which refuses to abandon its delusions of liberal governance.
This conception of a 'left' as a broad spectrum alliance of social democratic movements is itself one throoughly shaped and part of the bourgeois democratic political establishment.
Moreso this is the point I have been contending earlier in the thread: the British electorate within a core western nation do not benefit from abandoning that very system of petty privileges which affords them their given standards of living. These are workers who will not abandon their relative position of wealth within the given global division for the end of revolution until they too face the same social pressures as those within the global south i.e. famine, war, and poverty.
Poverty within this nation is as institutionalised as that false consciousness which guarantees it; when at last the hegemonic system which underwites the liberal British state collapses then too will the ambitions of its electorate shift: i.e. when the British proletariat face the same degree of immiseration as those nations which currently they oppress. Hence the demand is revolution, not one of concession. It is not a question of sacrificing political ideals for mass support, but one of radicalisation to the end of overthrowing the class system in whose image society currently exists.
>>2627608Who, pray tell, is making "the demand" (we know it's not the non-existent left, but that doesn't narrow it down much) and, if their demands are not met, what will they do?
it would seem almost churlish to point out that most immiserated nations haven't yet revolted. Ngl feels like people are finally waking up to America.
>>2628615Maybe, but not like we live in an actual democracy, so it won't make much difference.
>>2628615It will only funnel into nationalism and you will end up dying killing US proles to protect the King.
Here's to the dull gullible stupidity of the British citizen, who prospering in the bribed ignorance of their class upholds the miserable delusions of their masters.
Death to the bourgeoisie
>>2628740in the same way as religions proliferate through memetic replication, do you not think that the 'glue' that holds society together are these sorts of people? The curtain twichers, the finger wagglers and so on?
>>2628740The British citizen isn't bribed, just cowed. Once again you underestimate the bleakness of the situation.
To live in America, Australia, Canada or even New Zealand is beautiful. All the anti-capitalist critiques hold nearly. To live in Britain is bleak. The late USSR on permanent repeat if you're lucky, with the closest things to an alternative being a Czechoslovak velvet divorce or a Yugoslav style total breakdown.
>>2628907It's bribery secured through the promise of living standards; the median salary in Britain is 30 thousand, which despite inflation is sufficent for the basics. This despite the fact that most of the service industry and blue collar roles offer minimum wage.
The absolute servile ignorance that prospers from this in support of the most politically illiterate views is the product of material concessions offered by the ruling classes; the British population aren't cowed, merely placated through a system of goodies which extorts its labour through wages higher than the global average.
>>2628980>the most politically illiterate views you need to remind yourself that your political opinions are *exactly* as important as anyone else's
>>2628980Britain uniquely amongst imperialist powers has undergone almost 20 years of wage stagnation. Accounting for this is more useful and more interesting than restating shopworn clichés.
>>2628678>you will end up dying killing US prolesTbf a life well lived.
>>262902720 years of wage stagnation haven't slowed the global division of wealth and its siphoning of value from the global south.
>>2628991All hail bourgeois democracy
>>2629055pretty sure uncle karls big book of absolute bollocks still advocates for a democratic vote
>>2629090or doesn't it? lol
Does anyone even care
No, really, why are we here
>>2629040Every time I hear wigger, I always think how they completely won the cultural war.
>Killed all other youth subcultures>dominated the mainstream and alternative charts for 20 years>Zoomers and Teenagers dress like roadmen and speak in aave/mle>If Black people like something, it's auto-seen as counter-culture and cool. This is literally how Hentai and Anime became mainstream "cool" in the past 10 years because Blacks started simping over Bulma hentai and Naruto.Complete cultural victory.
>>2629294Extraordinarily basic shitlibbery.
>>2629390For me it's furries, extremely online homo/transsexuals, and left-wing-but-surprisingly-well-off podcasters who're also #1 or #2.
When the true communists of this thread
(or /pol/, or Starmer, I'm not that picky and none of them are that good at telling the difference anyway.) put me up against the wall, I'm going to insist they put me up with that group.
What I could never achieve in life (leaving /leftybritpol/ for people who aren't losers and bores) I will achieve in death. That will be my revolution.
>>2629463You're always welcome to get a warm fuzzy hug
>>2629489pointless squabble
The world is corrupt, what's next? Shit stinks? Mind blowing stuff
Enough shitposting on imageboards, the Amerikkkan fascists and imperialists have begun their campaign of military assault on the world.
The British government in protstrating itself before Trump and Netanyahu and aiding the US in their acts of terror.
We need to put aside petty squabbles over theoretical differences and organise.
Just when and how can we actually form an organisation?
Maybe it will just be handful of us at first and maybe it will take years to achieve anything but what is the alternative? Doomerism? Do nothing and watch the Billionaires, Zionists, Neo-Nazis and so forth win the world?
Likewise acting individually is too inaffective and leads to adventurism. We need to organise. We also need to make sure glowies don't infiltrate. I don't know how to do any of this shit.
Existing groups are useless. CPB are basically identical to Labour in regards to their economics and reformism. CPGB-ML is a NazBol cult. RCP are Trots. All are factionalist af and believe all we can do is post on Twitter and hold a little rally on May Day.
I want actual fucking revolutionary planning. No bullshit anti-communist rhetoric about trying to save the world being a useless effort. Prove the 3rd Worldists wrong that we aren't treatlerites who will let the world burn so long as we have TV shows and burgers.
I am not dying before we even give it a shot. I am not waiting until I am too old to be of help.
If anyone actually wants to stop LARPing and get serious please post some fucking ideas here.
Does anyone on here actually do anything in real life, trade union organising, political organising any campaigning at all?
>>2628991>>2629090Just as a response to this, it is a political illiteracy in the sense that their ideological convictions form in the image of the prevailing class relation, i.e. the political opinions they possess run counter to their real class interests primarily as a result of their percieved relationship to capital.
Thus you have a nation of imperial subjects in which every manner of perversion works in an almost sovereign confedaracy to sustain its hegemony. Part of this hopelessness is in realising that in actuality the electorate which supports Reform is nothing more than the latest in a refined gradient of British political reaction which has formed within capitalist society.
Conversely, the substantial portion of the electorate who engage in and harbour said allegiances with the bourgeois establishment continue to seek simply the rendition of wealth in the maintenance of its empire, even in their opposition to Venezuela and Palestine. To counter what the other idiot is saying, it is not a citizenry that is cowed. Wages may stagnate to a certain degree but the gdp per capita of Britain remains at a disparate level to the global south along with every other member of the G7.
It is a self-exploitation in which all are unconditionally complicit by virtue of their position; what British society strives for in all its latent ambition is the maintenance of its imperial elite through all forms of wealth extraction. All its present political virtues, in whatever form, are the product of this capitalist system which manufactures its culture as a commodity.
Political literacy is the capacity to percieve however dimly the totality of this relation and one's position within it, not the ability to chart one's beliefs on an axis and suppose all others right or wrong. The only true basis for political action is the class relation as it discards the ideoloigcal falsehoods which blind the majority in this nation, even the socialists, to their own ends.
>>2629554Yes.
Flood detected; Post discarded.
>>2629553https://youngstruggle.noblogs.org/Non-Sectarian, ties to Kurdish, Turkish socialist groups along with trade unions (United Voices of the World) and the Palestine movement. Currently building an expanding. A part of an informal coalition with other internationalists and ex CPB/YCL that will cohere into something.
>>2629700Suggest 3 immediately practical revolutionary actions so I can laugh at you for picking something that demonstrably doesn't work or something demonstrably beyond your capacity.
here is an excerpt from the preface of daniel defoe's 1701 poem, "a true-born englishman", wherein he satirises the ethnic pride one holds in his nation, and sees rather, that to be "english" (what then meant "british") is to be foreign to the land which one has claim to, and so all are legitimate by their illegitimacy:
<From hence I only infer, that an Englishman, of all men, ought not to despise foreigners as such, and I think the inference is just, since what they are to-day, we were yesterday, and to-morrow they will be like us. If foreigners misbehave in their several stations and employments, I have nothing to do with that; the laws are open to punish them equally with natives, and let them have no favour. But when I see the town full of lampoons and invectives against Dutchmen, only because they are foreigners, and the king reproached and insulted by insolent pedants, and ballad-making poets, for employing foreigners, and for being a foreigner himself, I confess myself moved by it to remind our nation of their own original, thereby to let them see what a banter is put upon ourselves in it; since speaking of Englishmen ab origine, we are really all foreigners ourselves.https://www.gutenberg.org/files/30159/30159-h/30159-h.htmhere, he clearly holds to a civic nationalism, that anyone can belong, so long as equality before the law is upheld. he also speaks more on universality here:
<A true-born Englishman’s a contradiction […] A metaphor invented to express, A man a-kin to all the universe.https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44081/the-true-born-englishmanthus, englishness is an idea which anyone can identify with. an example of this sort of inclusive signification is during the haitian revolution, where blacks would be rebelling against napoleonic forces, while chanting slogans from the french revolution (making these colonial subjects the real frenchmen by embodying the revolutionary spirit). alongside them were poles, who after this victory, were ceremonially titled the "white negroes of europe"; thus, one is inducted into the identity of the other by mutual recognition, rather than by right of birth. this is also the idea of christian faith; that one becomes a jew in spirit rather than in flesh.
>>2630056the original wigger starmer
>>2629700doesn't change the fact
>>2629832I'm actually just genuinely curious. Seems like alot of bickering but not alot of doing.
>>2630583I mean you don't do trade union action on an image board.
>>2629982step 1: don't pay tax
step 2: there is no step 2
>>2630630Rarely see anyone mention the internal politics of any of the unions here, Graham blowing the Unite Strike fund, the CP absolutely getting fucked in Unison the other week. Trots getting a win for Assistant GS at the RMT, The Bakers spiralling into madness, TSSA's carpet bagger GS nose diving the union. ASLEF's Assistant General Secretary shock win I could go on…
>>2630698why are trade unions so affiliated with left wingers and communists? Couldn't landords be considered a trade union of sorts?
>>2629554Yes but I try to keep what I say online separate from the org.
>>2630733>ifI'm equally right in saying if a revolution succeeds in England then Mr Blobby will become king.
>>2630698>The Bakers spiralling into madnessCan I get more context on this please? I recently started an office job in a place that has a lot of BFAWU members and was thinking about joining.
>>2630698Not to mention the conflict between the NEU and the TUC over the former's recent decision to recruit school support staff in contradiction with a TUC agreement. Currently, support staff are split up as members of Unite, Unison, and GMB. The NEU want to recruit support staff to increase professional unity, on the grounds that currently wage negotiations with teachers often end up directly impacting the wages and conditions of support staff - unfunded wage increases for teachers leading to support staff wage freezes, layoffs, and loss of working rights; also probably on the grounds the NEU is a much more politically engaged and active union on the whole. Currently the NEU have no collective bargaining agreements for support workers, allowing academies and local authorities to play the two against each other in seperate (but intrinstically linked) negotiations and campaigning. As a result of this NEU recruitment initative going ahead, theylook set to be kicked from the TUC in the coming weeks.
>>2630786Correction: I should point out that this hasn't been formally passed yet, and a special congress on the issue will take place on Feb 28th - but the direction of travel seems fairly easy to predict, given it has the backing of the leadership. The NEU claim to have the second largest amount of support staff members of any union already, and if they do decide to withdraw from the prior agreement banning active recruitment, they are likely to become the largest, given how chronically low union membership is for support staff which an active recruitment campaign will likely hoover up. This has been brewing for years with GMB, Unite, and Unison filing repeated complaints against the NEU leading to significant fines, as a result of their current contentious 'support staff can join us but we won't actively recruit them' approach. Whether or not they will be kicked from the TUC after withdrawing from the prior agreement, time can only tell, but unnamed union sources in the Times article seem to think it is likely.
https://neu.org.uk/latest/news/support-staff-special-conferenceQuite funny to see this being portrayed in such a negative light by porky media, who rightly fear a united education sector led by a politically competent (at least, relatively speaking) union.
https://unherd.com/newsroom/uks-largest-teaching-union-is-attempting-a-power-grab/https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/neu-schools-support-staff-farage-l6m3h3x99 >>2630820We have exactly the same problem in the RMT with Unite, TSSA & ASLEF the difference is we don't tend to openly break Bridlington as much as we'd like to. Industrial Trade Unionism is clearly the only model that actually works. Craft Unions and & General Unions get fucked.
>>2630825Who knows, maybe the NEU will start a wave of increasingly industrial based union organisation across Britain. The rail industry united within one union would be an awesome force for working class power and raising collective consciousness. One can hope.
>>2630833The NUR which became the RMT was set up by people that had that vision. Scable&f and TOSSA were set up as yellow unions to break that up. We've done quite a bit of work with trying to break up TSSA and bring them over just not quite as bold as the NEU, mostly because we suspect they will collapse anyway.
Rule 4 in our rule book is,
> to secure the complete organisation of all workers employed by any board, company or authority in connection with rail >>2630733Nationalists back then didn't pretend to be marxists and communists so often. How the times have changed.
>>2630779Where do you work? It's just lots of ultras run the show now and they are gradually spirally. You should definitely join if they are organising where you work though.
>>2630733They absolutely do not. Evaluate the statement logically.
>IF a revolution succeeds in England"Has a revolution succeeded in England?" evaluates to FALSE.
The remainder of the statement does not trigger.
How plausible do you think it is to boycott US goods and services?
Do you think starting a campaign on the Left to do so would actually achieve anything?
On a different note there's a crazy living a few streets away from me. Who, despite being British, flies a US flag in his garden and has lots of Trump themed memorabilia intentionally visible through his windows.
Is there any legal way I can show my disatisfaction with this situation? Are there any lawyers here who know if there's the potential he's breaking any by-laws or some shit I could call the council about?
>>2631095Typical anglo pedant response, his statement is about the imperialism inherent to imperial core status that necessarily transcends mode of production
>>2631096>Is there any legal way I can show my disatisfaction with this situation?Why? Just brick the cunts window.
>>2629830First time he's been out of bed before 11:30?
>>2631096eat loads of sweetcorn and do a poo in his garden
>>2631288fuck that nonsense, will cost an arm and a leg. my local tesco stopped selling own brand. Green giant? fucking rip-off mate.
>>2630987Ian Hodson is active in Manchester and he is a known Gallowayite lol.
>>2630779>I recently started an office job in a place that has a lot of BFAWU members and was thinking about joining.What kind of office has BFAWU members??
I would 100% get involved tho. As the other anon said it is pretty left-wing but it is also do-nothing (both in terms of existing work places, organising new ones, or general extra-industrial activity). Getting involved to get its arse in gear would 100% be worth it (and tbh I bet they have some cash for cool projects kicking about).
>>2631158who cares
no practical implications flow from this
>>2630786>>2630820Based NEU tbh. Craft Unions, which have a stranglehold over education in this country, are dogshit. Likewise the "Big 3" squatting on support roles and most of the time never actually fighting for their rights is shit for everyone involved. I know the Uni sector better and its kinda inverted because the UCU could NOT give a shit if you aren't an academic, but the support unions tend to be more active. The NEU is right to do what they are doing tho, when the Bridlington Principles are holding back building unified militancy they should be disregarded. Also the NEU is drawing close to unifying with the other remaining Teachers' Union (NASUWT) it could redefine the entire sector.
>>2630852TSSA has its own thing in that it wants to be a craft for all engineers across all sectors but honestly I swear to god they only are properly organised with rail workers, right?
>>2630820Surely the TUC wouldn't kick out the NEU, even for violating the Bridlington Principles. It is one of the biggest unions in the country and is lead by socialists its not exactly a scab union undercutting strikes by other unions.
>>2631365At the end of the day the TUC is a confederation based on mutual recognition of rules and agreements, and if the NEU are to go ahead with doubling down and withdrawing from the agreement, and GMB/Unite/Unison launch a complaint, I'm not sure what else the TUC could do but suspend them.
The NEU aren't in a good position. Without a new agreement giving them collective bargaining recognition, they're never going to be able to properly represent support staff members, and they can't achieve this without a new agreement with the big three coordinated via the TUC. They're not going to budge so it's hard to see a winning move for the NEU, damned if they do and damned if they don't.
>>2631364They were originally the union for the ticket office staff back in the early days as the big rail company's didn't trust NUR men with the company money. We fucked them off out of ticket office about 10 years ago now. They mostly represent rail managers and senior engineers and for some reason travel agents.
>>2631444Without the protection of Bridlington The GMB will just throw a load of staff at organising teachers and drop the subs to a tenner. Can imagine loads of schools will do sweetheart deals with them.
>>2631350I work in a big bakery, but I'm an accountant so I just sit in the office and am pretty disconnected from the union membership, I think there's not many/any in the office who are members. I gather also that union membership here is pretty low even among factory staff as they are all fairly transient, new arrivals working there until they can get something better. Bit of a racial divide too among Eastern Europeans and East Asians so not all that much solidarity. And there is a big amazon depot near us so I think BFAWU are putting most of their efforts into getting in there.
>>2615362I just saw an army recruiting poster that said "starting salary 26k+!'. You could get more than that working in Lidl, no wonder they can't get anyone to join up lol.
>>2631713Never mind I just found out Lidl only pays minimum wage now, it used to be a few pound over. Nonetheless what shit money to sign your life away for.
>>2631668Mate you should definitely join, they'll need activists even if it's just helping out with running a branch or running a recruitment campaign.
>>2631713I’ve seen ones on Instagram recruiting people for cybersecurity jobs in the military that were offering something in the £50,000s and that’s considerably less likely to get you droned in Venezuela when Starmer inevitably joins the US invasion.
Btw there is gonna be a megapicket for the Birmingham Bin strikes on the 30th. If you're local try and make it down.
https://actionnetwork.org/events/join-the-brum-bin-strike-megapicket-iii-30-january-2026>>2621077Thats william wallace
>>2631713Friend was in ArmyInt in the 2000s and realized he was earning something like 40p an hour for the time he was actually working.
https://shaction.org/a-national-housing-union/Enough is Enough style wrecker shit from Unite trying to undermine ACORN. They are against politicisation of tenants. Literally a labour / unite psyop.
>>2631839Yes.
If free will isn't real then they've no alternative but to mock, you've no alternative but to whine, and I've no alternative but to inform you of this without success. Fun!
>>2632041Oh shit, im sorry.
>>2631993I saw this and was wondering what it is. I am a member of a municipal non-ACORN TU (there is a whole beef over history, praxis, and ideology I could elborate on if comrades here are interested) but yeah. Apparently the craic is that Unite want to form "TRAs" or Tenant and Resident Associations as opposed to member tenant unions. TRA exist under law but can only cover a specific geographical area. There is some method in their approach but if they plan on bulldozing the existing tenant union (both ACORN and Independent) then they can fuck off.
>>2631993Lol are you one of the mad CP lot that think Enough is Enough fucked The People's Assembly?
UK just assisted the US in capturing an empty Venezuelan oil vessel, which changed courses to flee across the Atlantic to Russia after the US began pursuing it.
The UK is therefore now involved in helping the Americans in the ongoing military operations. Although we were already engaged in election interference in the country for years.
Also note UK media is reporting it as a Russian vessel because it changed flags after America began pursuit.
>>2632363Check DeclassifiedUK website and twitter; UK banks have stolen Venezuelan Gold, UK companies like BP have interests in oil, and our Foreign Office has funded propaganda for the opposition.
MoD/Govt. refused to report if any british armed forces personnel were onboard the carriers months prior, so possibly could have been involved in the kidnapping.
>>2631817It's Mel Gibson LARPing as a woad raider
>>2632363I'm having trouble understanding he news doublespeak on this. They say it's 'illegal', but it's a Venezuelan boat carrying Venezuelan oil across the atlantic, so what's the problem?
>>2632584The US put unilateral sanctions on Venezuela, to the effect of preventing them from transporting and selling oil.
Of course nobody recognises the validity of these sanctions besides the USA, and now apparently also the UK.
The Americans and British media are claiming it's illegal because it breaks the rules of those US imposed sanctions.
According to international law and Venezuelan law, there is nothing illegal about Venezuela transporting and selling oil, if anything the US and UK actions could amount to piracy.
>>2632920this is all so clownish I can't help but think it's to give israel some media smokescreen
Palestinian embassy in UK is officially inaugurated
The opening comes after the UK's recognition of the State of Palestine in September 2025.
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2026/01/05/palestinian-embassy-in-uk-is-officially-inaugurated_6749110_4.html>>2632082Honestly I don't have that complicated thoughts on the matter and I'm just repeating what my comrades are saying.
The thing is ACORN is not a tenants union, it is a community union for the working class. They organise on way broader topics than just rent, like transport, energy, debt etc.. This is the kind of union you need to support, because its not just a limited trade or tenants union, but a more general union of workers (of course the actual engagement with workplaces is still not there). It's really revolutionary, at least in my country.
>>2634791Just say it is le localized class union jeez
>>2634965just don't pay tax, it's like a 20% pay rise
>>2634791>The thing is ACORN is not a tenants union, it is a community union for the working class. They organise on way broader topics than just rent, like transport, energy, debt etc.. This is the kind of union you need to support, because its not just a limited trade or tenants union, but a more general union of workers (of course the actual engagement with workplaces is still not there). It's really revolutionary, at least in my country.ACORN are adventurist vanguardists that launch campaigns without community support for their own gratification. They would occupy a letting agents for the sake of doing it rather than actually trying to achieve anything.
Zarah should just lead a British equivalent to the DSA…
I wish I was a DSA yank
The whole depressing culture of Britain really doesn't lend itself to wasting your time on a go nowhere left project.
If Britons were yanks i'd start the Your Party furry caucus just to feel something. But we aren't so I'd just embarrass myself in a bad way while either attracting no attention or attracting the attention of people so bad they make me embarrassed, and that's saying something when I'm the sort of person who apparently wishes they could wear a fursuit to the DSA. (Much, much worse than being the sort of person who actually does!!)
We're just not like them.
>>2635710>vanguardist yes and ?
By the way it really isn't, the reality is much worse, its rule by clique with a normal corporate management structure, presiding over "member lead" democracy that is highly beholden to aforementioned corporate management structure.
On a granular level it is technically member lead, and they have conferences where they do decide on stuff and so on, but ultimately, the management have 100% of the hard power, and influence the democratic structures so heavily that they aren't functionally really that.
That being said, it is a model that has flaws, deep ones, and hasn't brought the tenants movement as far as it could have, but also, is a model that has brought the tenants movement from zero to where it is now.
The recent renters right bill was heavily acorn influenced, more or less all rent control policy in Scotland comes from Living Rent, an Acorn affiliate/offshoot operating on a very similar model.
>adventurist … that launch campaigns without community support for their own gratification.it is nigh on impossible to campaign within a community without community support. The entire model is: ask people what their issues are, then deliver a campaign which you can achieve given those issues.
If you mean "they don't canvass literally 100% of the community and get them to all vote on if they want a campaign to happen" no, of course they don't, why should they have to?
Show me regular occurring instances of the communities Acorn working in actively rejecting them, in the UK. Maybe you can show me one, it will be an outlier.
>They would occupy a letting agents for the sake of doing it rather than actually trying to achieve anything.they do this only to help specific tenants with their issues, and its a tried and tested tactic to get results, across the UK tenants unions have probably by now massed wins for tenants numbering in the high hundreds to very low thousands if i had to guess, doing these tactics.
>in general the sad reality you don't understand is that, despite flaws, this is actually the best there is in the UK at the moment, in terms of union organising. Maybe some of the smaller new unions like the App Drivers and Couriers Union or something
If your position is simply to throw around buzzwords, it may as well not exist. You have to be part of these things, and if you think there is a better way to organise, state it within them
>>2631993"Project planning is led by a steering group which meets once per quarter, and more detailed work is undertaken by a taskforce, which requires approximately one hour per week."
So, they mean to undertake precisely 56 hours of work A YEAR in order to form this Union.
LMAO.
>>2637020you could get a pencil and draw some porno, so should we ban those as well?
Anna Paulina Luna, a Republican Congresswoman and ally of Donald Trump, said she was drafting legislation that would allow the US to sanction the UK if the UK bans or restricts X under the Online Safety Act.
https://www.cityam.com/uk-threatened-with-sanctions-if-starmer-blocks-musks-x/Loll
>>2637610did sir queef get that tech trade deal back up and runing, or has he fucked that as well?
>>2637162>>2637164YOOO nice to see you posting again Sage, always need more literate Marxist-Leninists (revolutionary) posting here.
>>2637367I'm just asking for consistency, this is the government who makes us do a video selfie to look at porn now
>>2637752They wanted me to scan my head in to open a facebook page
Now seems extremely likely twitter will be blocked in the UK in the coming few days.
I don't use it, I just search with xcancel if there's something I need to see. But what do those of you here make of it being banned?
>>2637853In no way will it be banned; the momentum driving this comes from the credulous political jockeying of ministers and political factions aligning in an attempt to reign in and impress business conditions for American conglomerates. In actuality Parliament is impotent in its relationship with these companies due to its one sided relationship with its hegemon. Nothing will come of it, it is literally just a means to stir up advocacy for domestic investigative powers by the supporters of such statutes.
>>2637886They already banned most 18+ websites and are implementing digital ID schemes.
You can't even buy certain gory or scary Steam games without showing a credit (not debit) card as ID.
If a website is full of AI deepfakes and and CP and run by a literal fascist I think we can easily expect it to be banned imminently.
>>2637897They haven't banned these websites, they've merely implemented a regulatory body (OFCOM) to legislate on behalf of the state in order to regulate access to these sites. You can still access them provided you supply ID.
Mentally you're a child if you think X is going to be banned; the media narrative is primarily pot stirring by advocates for these laws who wish to see tougher implementation. If the government were serious about outlawing such content they'd pass a bill regulating the usages of AI itself, which they are not.
>>2637164Sage I heard you are a Maoist, is this true?
>>2637162I am a member of a Tenants Union and these are our legit critiques of ACORN. I am speaking from personal experience on a lot of this. ACORN as you said are directed by a clique that would do their own thing rather than actually responding to community demands. It isn't buzzwords its valid critique.
>>2637897We're living in a police state run by heir starmer, and you're calling Musk a fascist?
>>2638475Boers are worse than nazis
>>2637897Imagine that my post has a meme image attached of "they ban our medicine" (picture of lolisho mangas on a shelf) "so they can sell us their 'cures'" (screenshot of grok generated ai child porn of real kids)
Even if we put aside the CP issue, deepfaked porn of real people is supposed to be illegal in the UK to begin with
>>2638478He's not a boer. his family where german-canadians who moved to south africa for the love of the game of white supremacy.
>>2638624Every white south african not named Joe Slovo is a boer, you don’t have to be dutch
here is some legal history concerning a 1772 court case ("somerset/sterling vs stewart"), wherein it is declared that the holding of a negro slave in england has no legitimacy, for by common law or contract, slavery is not a condition which is permissible (despite the contemporary holding of around 15,000 slaves in england at this time). the court appealed for the slave (sterling) to be released from stewart, yet the precedent did not liberate all slaves, until the british empire's "slavery abolition act" (1833), which freed over 800,000 slaves in the colonies, 30 years before lincoln's "emancipation proclomation" (1863). the 1772 case was infamous, being cited by later civil rights leaders and abolitionists in the US.
in a report on the trial by the "trinity term" (june 22, 1772), it reports that popular opinion from the time of 1729 onwards was that the baptism of a slave made him free, and so plantation owners had resistance to this act of conversion, although it had no real basis in english law. curiously, in defoe's "robinson crusoe" (1729), this was also the attitude taken by the portuguese in regard to negro slaves; that they would be made free by their religious training (while robinson as an englishman was naturally free). so then, freedom appeared as a condition of belonging to the same faith, more than race, it seems - like how cromwell's invasion of ireland was preconditioned by a war against catholicism in particular. as yet, race still played an integral aspect, since the irish only became indentured servants (such as in the colonies), yet it was negroes who held distinction in their treatment as slaves, from the time of john punch in 1640, who was punished along with white servants, but whom received particular wrath. john casor in 1655 was later treated as "servant for life". in 1662 is when virginia initiated "partus sequitur ventrem", making children the enslaved property of masters, rather than fathers, based in the status of mothers. its this condition also which exempted mixed children of white mothers and black fathers from slavery, and so most of the free negroes from this time must be conjectured as descending from white mothers, with the opposite case of mixed children from black mothers and white fathers being held as property. thus, this law was not only racist, but misogynist.
i would also agree with noam chomsky here, that the cause of the american revolution was largely based in the interests of slave-holders, and that this particular racism of the nation's inception stains its reputation, such as i have cited earlier, in regard to the american stratification of race, compared to other nations:
>>2617199>>2617211an early example would be the USA's "naturalisation act(s)" (1790-1802), which purposefully specifies citizenship from immigrants based in them being a "white person". this racialisation of national citizenship of course conflicts with earlier english writing, such as i have highlighted with daniel defoe (1701):
>>2630056so then, america appears to be a uniquely racist nation.
>>2638626Correct Slovo was not a boer.
>>2638626>you don’t have to be dutchVery hard to have a grasp of South African history and politics if you just think every white SA is a boer.
This is literally the afriforum line, btw. so grats for that.
>>2638743How are those distinctions relevant after the ango boer wars?
>>2638727I've always found interesting the theory that America was also founded to steal native American land which Britain was more reluctant to do.
Not because Britons are more moral people averse to stealing land, but because of the security calculus involved in doing so. (Basically: the Empire doesn't want to send troops to "pacify" native Americans trying to get their land back because while they're tied down in some flyover state France could attack elsewhere, while an independent America can conquer all it likes.)
There's even a whole fun argument about the economics of settler colonialism: Australia failed to colonize Papua New Guinea because it'd require like $10,000 subsidy per person to convince a comfortable Australian citizen to move there even if you gave them free land etc. Indonesia succeeded in colonizing the same island because, as a poorer country, less inducement was required. Free land and moderately favorable treatment were enough. Thus, settler colonialism mostly imploded for economic reasons except in odd cases like Israel where the economics still work out. (Even there, illegal settlements tend to do well when they're "commuter colonialism" projects within driving distance of major cities, and fail when they actually involve living on the frontier.)
>>2637923kind of
>>2637994Well, calling them vanguardist is a buzzword and saying they occupy letting agents for the sake of it and without the support of the community isn't true.
If you're in London Renters Union they have the opposite problem in that its very 'democratic' but is highly disorganised to the point where, again, actually a clique runs it but they also don't get as much done.
If its the difference between a clique and clique, you might as well choose the efficient clique
>>2638992Hey Sage. Hope you're well.
>>2638864dont you think there is at least a prersonality difference between the puritans who went to the colonies and the people who stayed home? britain is almost genetically atheist, it seems, while america languishes in evangelicalism. could attitudes toward race also be understood this way?
>>2639006I don't think the US had such a bloody split between Catholics and Protestants or at least as frequently as on the British Isles where secularism therefore became pragmatic.
>>2639006I would have a much harder time believing in God if I loved where it rained every day too
>>2639325religious faith is actually strongest where natural and social conditions are the worst. opium of the people, innit?
>>2639335There’s a big difference between the blistering heat of where most humanity lives and constant overcast
The UK has no contradictions
>>2639380It is a pretty unfortunate fate, you can’t really have sex unless you enjoy taking it in the ass and there’s not even enough tissue for a successful sex change if you wanted to go that route
>>2639380>I've got the world's smallest penisAnd now the whole world knows
>>2639392If your dick is that small, humiliation fetish is one of two avenues
>>2639455small willy syndrome innit
>>2639399how big are his balls though? And are we talking length or girth? Bit of a shallow analysis tbh
>>2639461I’m listening to it now, they aren’t really going into it so I assume he has normal balls with his less than half centimeter cock, i think that’s what he’s implying when talking about cleanup at the toilet being difficult
>>2639481he'll get a go-fund-me surgery and end up with a trouser hog to swing about the place
>>2639486There’s literally no medical options for him, he would have needed intervention during puberty but it didn’t happen
>>2639491yeah they'll whip up a franken todger from his leg or something like that, or wrist they use isn't it
>>2639504You wouldn’t have the nerve endings for sex to be pleasurable and it’s far too medically risky for what is a non survival function
>>2639509I don't think he gets much use of it as-is, and if it means not pissing all over his balls every day I reckon he should have that done
>>2639509They didn't make Robocop to enjoy art and literature, they made him to do a job.
That's all I'm saying.
>>2639557That's because being abused, damaged, diminished, suffering, makes you *worse*, not better.
This is a very simple, almost mechanical, newtonian observation, the only reason you'd believe otherwise is if you bought into the disgusting christian lie that suffering is noble.
>>2639557What were they saying?
>>2639593>theyI think we can safely assume it was a male homeless veteran
>>2639608It's just how people speak, anon, stop acting like an insufferable middle class pedant.
>>2639608What's wrong with being male?
UK commits £200m to prepare British troops for Ukraine deployment
The money will pay for upgrades to vehicles and communications systems, counter-drone protection and other equipment.
https://www.the-independent.com/news/uk/home-news/ukraine-john-healey-defence-secretary-kyiv-government-b2897877.htmlUpdate
>>2639611also, 'they' used to refer to more than one person
>>2639624singular 'they' has been a thing for as long as I can remember
>>2639626anyway, what did *he* say?
From this simple word we can infer it was a singular male veteran, the greatest victim of class.
>>2617596>You will eat tea and biscuits I'm the church cafe with the old people afterwardsI unironically really enjoyed this part of going to church when I did about 10 years ago.
new weird Paul Cockshott fact: he persistently comments on Wings Over Scotland (half-decent if uncouth Scottish Nationalist press debunking site that the left could probably do with emulating <2015, increasingly deranged anti-SNP-to-the-extent-of-endorsing-Tory-voting TERF-obsession blog post-2017, always written by a bloke who lives in England) under his own name.
Bone Totem coming out in a few days
My headcanon btw is that there is a Welsh socialist Republic on Ynys Mon and they blew up the "Brittania" bridge to stop the infected from crossing.
>>2639624"they" is a gender-neutral pronoun and has historically been used singularly or plurally, based on context.
>>2639620is this where the budget "black hole" went, then?
>>2639681This part? Isn't that basically all there is to it?
CoE is unironically among the least bad expression of christianity. Basically harmless and probably does more social good than bad in our current moment and recent history.
>>2639707doesnt he also want ireland to join the UK?
he is an old fashioned colonialist, it seems.
>>2640378I'm guessing PFI probably costs the UK a lot more than Ukraine does.
>>2640530Based, it's the revolutionary instincts of the proles who realise that if they cure death they'll never liquidate the Bourgeoisie.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0jvz020zzyoBadenoch's latest interview in which the party is cleared for a wipe-out. The criticism that Reform will advocate for welfarist policies will barely scratch the surface of a party whose councilors have rallied the support of an electorate that feels it has no resort. Hilariously she then advocates for Iranian intervention under the guise of national self-defence. They have absolutely no independent messaging with which to appeal to their base and the party must simply string itself along whilst maintaining the path of lest resistance in hope to recoup future losses, counting on the sheer unlikablability of the current government in order to turn potential voters their way whilst muddying the waters over Reform's policy positions.
All three parties are being pushed by a momentum that isn't their own into a further shift to the right as Britain roils internally from historical pressures, with there being absolutely no meaningful resistance by the alternative parties of the Greens or the Lib Dems - the Lib Dems being a middle way alternative that appeals to a dying cross section of the electorate, and the Greens being absolute clowns with no coherent policy commitments that upon gaining power they would not immediately be forced to abandon.
Supposing Labour survive the next four years, they represent a time of a directionless governance in which the gap between political representation and the social ambitions of the British population grows. Even still, there remains the threat of a global economic depression and continental escalation. No party has a solution to the present political crisis because it is one internet to the social order of capitalism; all that remains to be said is that British workers face being culled within this maelstrom.
Bonnie Blue is a Tory. Shame.
>>2640573Likewise Your Party will fail to conjure the necessary response to these social ills; they cannot oust through popular support the institutional political actors that would sabotage their success, nor provide messaging which can appeal to the electorate on which to build a broad party base. Literally all they offer is a political sloganeering which aims to capitalise on bourgeois moralist commitments such as an opposition to war and the need for distributed tax increases to sustain limping public services.
The time for this form of political vehicle has long since passed; Your Party is a zombie, formed on behalf of a collaboration of the strategic efforts of interest groups which previously could not unite and see only the urgent need for organisation under the threat of their own elimination.
There is no answer from within the British liberal establishment which can offer a solution to its present ills; as one order dies so another struggles to be born.
>>2640573>tories: we're going to gut the benefits system, but spend all your money fighting foreign wars insteadunelectable.
>>2640610Stripping the benefits system is inconsequential to them as the majority of their electoral base are middle income voters; likewise over the coming years as they prioritise defence spending the cuts will be legitimised as the cost or tradeoff of securing British living standards at the expense of the less fortunate.
The entire platform is ripe for nationalist messaging as one feeds back into the other. It won't a be a surprise if Labour begin leaning into this come the election.
>>2640375yes but 'he' is singular, just saying if there is information to pass on then you may as ell be specific
>>2640653i also used the term "a" signifying singularity
>>2640667yeah so there is no need to then introduce vagueness, if something has been established already
This gender discussion got me to thinking o how Marx lved in a time before gender equality. He based his works on the concept of 'class struggle' but women have the option of transcending into another class, through marriage etc. My sister did that, now she doesn't need to work and I'm still stuck in the rent monkey class.
>>2640675>women have the option of transcending into another classmen can do it as well though
>>2640669are you severely autistic?
or are you just ESL?
>>2640675marx did discuss gender relations, hence the notion that capitalism has destroyed the family, and also turned parents into petty capitalists, demanding "keep" from their kids.
>>2640779it's possible but nowhere as common
>>2640927not really, you've posted it on leftypol.org instead of sending it to keir starmer. (or at least posting it in his replies)
>>2640896NTA but that is just how we speak here.
>>2642318part of the psyop to demonise large white families
>>2642403He was getting too popular
>>2642431*handy
I spilled a load of prosecco on my keyboard over Christmas and have been hoping the sugary crust will just wear off eventually
The British class system is one of the most effective psyops in history. The tory fucking royalist neofeudalists sucessfully established a caste system and made the 'working class' proud of it. They defeated the Marxist class system in people's consciousness through this fucking caste shit. It makes it so much more difficult to talk about class than it should be. I have to explain what class even is to 90% of the people I talk to and they just think that Marxist class is not important because nobody thinks that way. I was trying to explain it to my mum and dad for HOURS. Like people think you are born into a class and it is a social thing, so there's proud working class lads who are fucking rich and bourgeois, and I'm middle class even though I am on benifits, live in a single room in a shared house, and have only ever had minimum wage jobs. And petit-bourgeois like plumbers are 'working class'. We NEED a cultural revolution to get rid of this shit. People aren't stupid, its just this is how the entire fuckign society treats class.
>>2642621Insane way to frame an open, internal election.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq845glnvl1o
<UK to bring into force law to tackle Grok AI deepfakes this weekHilarious that Parliament believes they can legislate away this issue; this is just one in a series of laws in which the British government is attempting to negotiate through statue litigation the degree and propensity of control the state enjoys over foreign tech monopolies operating on its shores.
Every attempt at curbing the activity of these social media monopolies is one in a series of strikes made to preserve the establishment power base by undercutting that of the opposition alla Reform. Hence the speculation regarding the banning of X, as it would immediately destroy Musk's capacity to influence the British political system. The bill itself is symptomatic of the historical collision which is occuring within British society in general as the petty bourgeoisie of this nation find themselves sinking deeper into the vortex which is currently reshaping its global hegemon.
Every doomed attempt made to constrict the operation of these businesses is one in a series of failures within the overall aim of buffering the British ruling classes from the outcomes within Washington and an attempt to secure their independence. Much to the chagrin of its would be supporters, the proponents of this bill do not care one iota for the well being of actual victims and see merely in the offence of civic liberties the casus belli to preserve their own personal political powers.
This entire operation is then given the veneer of an apologia of protecting British democratic society from the harmful influences of technology in one breath, as in the next they defend the Zionist genocide of the Palestinians.
>>2642696The entire thing is putrescent, as what is occurring within Parliament is a theatre in which every government finds itself constrained by seemingly alien forces in which its actions may be said to be inconsequential, both in terms of accountability and outcome. Legislation like this proves it in as much as there is no discernable strategy from either it or the opposition regarding the implementation of AI, as both the government and opposition must simply rule in the stead of the British bourgoeisie.
Laughibly the counter to this is the OSA, but that too has absolutely no impact. The British political classes are sinking deeper into the historical quagmire that has opened up beneath Trump's bonapartist administration and are finding they cannot pull themselves free. The absolute misery of this is that in attempting to pay lip service to the rights of women, they ignore the material deprivation and poverty that finances the luxuries of British society. Hence you have glaring protests in which demonstrators act out the innocence of would be rape victims against migrants, as they externalise all the systemic violence imposed upon them under capitalism on the failure of immigration controls.
>>2642632never let the facts get in the way of a tired old 'left is disunited' story
i mean, it is, but still
>>2642576this is why designating a "lumpen" as apart from a working class is important
>>2643384This mfs still exist?! This is why Farage is scary to me, the guy has patience.
>>2642437>I spilled a load of prosecco on my keyboard over Christmas and have been hoping the sugary crust will just wear off eventuallyJesus anon clean your things.
Breaking: Starmer has abandoned his plans for mandatory nationwide digital ID.
Instead, there will be a voluntary ID scheme, and you will need to supply a form of ID to apply for a job, although any valid form of ID will do.
>>2643934tony's gone on holiday, again…
Zionist Starmerite Labour MP for Streatham and Croydon North, Steve Reed, wants the Met police to arrest teachers at a school in Lambeth for handing out free cookies with icing on them resembling the Palestinian flag.
In his opinion, this amounts to an anti-Semitic hate crime. In an interview with "Jewish News" he claims a family member "vomited in fear" at the sight of the biscuits.
Honestly you could not make this shit up.
>>2644067Amazing how the legitimacy of the question of Palestinian self-determination has been obfuscated entirely behind a Zionist politic which has completely erradicated it along with the self-representation of the Palestinian people.
The entire thing is an ideological mechanism whereby the national struggle of one persons are sanctioned by law due to the threat of invalidating the civil liberties of another protected class. The entire thing is built under the duress of hate speech laws which provide extrajudicial measures for the policing of those who threaten this status quo by charging them as terror suspects for nothing more than the bourgeois democratic right to free speech.
The only thing more disgusting than this genocide denial by these sycophants are the liberties and material privileges they are afforded within society with which to do so, buying into the same political largesse which affords them a high standard of living.
It's with absolutely no irony that these individuals claim democracy as a virtue, because it is only in said democracies that such rampant Fascistic support for a genocide may thrive. As by one weight British society is balanced and premised on wealth inequality, so by another and the self-same it is balanced in its support for its imperialist militarist policies.
If these clowns find biscuits with Palestinian flags offensive, perhaps they should be shown the countless bodies of children that lay dead in Gaza.
Any of you fucks use twitter? I'm fucking glued to it right now as it's like going on a Safari through the fucking Congo of political opinions.
The lowkey reform voter / yaxley lennon supporters are the best as it's the most threadbare political jockeying. Honestly it's like watching a car crash in slow motion.
Keir Starmer offered place on Trump’s Gaza ‘peace board’
Prime minister is yet to receive a formal invitation, but the Guardian has been told that Starmer is expected to accept
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/13/keir-starmer-offered-place-on-trumps-gaza-peace-boardUpdate
>>2644164something something empire of dust something
>>2644150I only follow Maoist and Welsh Nationalist accounts
>>2644529So Young Struggle and Welsh Underground Network??
>>2644150Absolutely not. You would be better off taking all the time you spend on twitter and watching porn instead.
Are you a politician or a military / foreign policy strategist or asset? If not, there's no reason to need to be on it since you can't influence or decide anything on a week to week basis anyway.
>>2644545Couldn't care less, it's strictly to laugh at the poor cunts fighting the good fight for the British right and to gawk at the braindead social propagandising that does the rounds in those circles. Feel like a kid in a sweet shop at the cornucopia of ideology, apologia, and political groundwork these poor cunts spend their lives building around them in their nascent upwardly mobile attempts to grift their way into positions of power.
All of these individual are unconsciously aware that their meal tickets are underwritten by their ability to attract a follower income stream, so every piece of content across every profile shares the same unity of form in discourse with variations in content to attract the holy algorithm. Thus there's absolutely no complexity in thought and every post is an advertisment, stamped by the same naked appeal to bourgeois self-interest in which you get to witness the most obscene messaging wherein flags and the nationalistic sloganeering are bywords for profit generation.
The entire process is a recycling of that which led to Trump's success, so you essentially have an entire social media site dedicated to the most cynical money making operation known to man in which purveyors of truth (in the vein of Alex Jones) deploy the most absurd narratives in order to curry favour with electoral and consumer trends.
>>2644545>>2644594What's absolutely comical is how in recognising British capitalist society reflects their own mutual naked self-interest, these proles turn coat and don the colours of the bourgeoisie in the various attempts to milk their own private fortunes. Realising that everything, including their very words are for sale, every topic under the sun on these platforms falls into the digital spectacle in which coherent meaning is impossible and coherent meaning itself is annihilated.
Thus the British or English flag with these individuals becomes nothing more than the most cynical emblem of a political union that signifies absolutely nothing. Onto this latches every form of nostalgia and retrojection that the most backward political reaction can conjure, ending up with positions like
>>2644164 where the barely veiled racism of yesteryear morphs into an aesthetic of opinion merely to be consumed as part of a new colonial or imperial subjectivity.
You could replace the union jacks or english flags in their profile pictures and names with pictures of literal shit, money, or tulips and the messaging wouldn't change because the abstract ideal it signifies has long since perished. "Britain" itself becomes some amorphous libidinal term which bears no real relation to the present society and serves only to mobilise the various prejudices that legitimise the ultimate threat of force via the state.
These individuals are out and out Fascists but lack the political currency to endorse such a politic and so hide behind the ever thinning screen of acceptable public opinion until such a time as it becomes favourable.
Picture heavily fucking related
>>2640385Nationalism/Independence bullshit is anti-Socialist by nature.
I have no idea why the Left want Scotland to break off and become another EU Neolib tax haven shithole.
A federal system (similar to US/Australia) would be far better for the UK, break England up into 7-8 different states, Scotland, Ireland, Wales their own states.
That whay they have some strong level of power over local laws and self-governance, while still being under a larger federal structure.
For Socialists this is a win as it's far easier to win states, gain credibility, then head for Federal positions. Numerous politicians/leaders in the US and Australia have moved along this pathway.
>>2645170marx supported irish independence in his own time
>>2645176Don't really care, It practically makes the path to Socialism harder.
Also lets be real, the dynamics between Ireland and the UK were very fucking different compared to the dynamics of Scotland and England. Scotland was basically the Vanguard of the British Empire, Glasgow and Edinbrugh were the richest cities of the empire, go to anywhere the British colonized and the names are all scottish, this is because the Scottish clan system allowed them to much easier manipulate clan/honour cultures of other regions.
There is no benefit for Scotland gaining independence for the left, it's just another case of the Left wanting to worsen the UK out of spite rather than any pragmatic purpose.
The Left in the UK should be pushing for Federalism. It is the best pathway to power for the UK left at this point. If the UK went Federal back in say the 1970s, the UK left probably would have controlled the entire North to this very day and would likely be a far more serious force in UK politics. It also would have been far better for workers since you wouldn't have the terminal london jerkoff of all UK nation building for the past 50 years.
hi everyone i'm an british-english wanker here to tell scots how to run their affairs, which naturally i know fuck all about but assume i know better than the people actually living there because an unearned sense of arrogance is the one perk of coming from and identifying with the habsburg chin of nations.
>>2645230I am a Scot and Scots nats are the most self-pitying people on earth. They larp as the colonised while being colonisers. Glasgow was the "Second City of the Empire" and if you are a protestant chances are your parents were hanging catholics, not fighting with them. Like they are trying to astroturf the idea that they own
the wind atm as some kind of natural resource that is "extracted" by England. It's levels of self-victimisation that only the Israelis can match.
>>2645247i have no particular respect for scotland (itself a freakish little nation with a ruling class half-merged into britain and half not), but when scots talk nonsense it's usually more sympathetic. the self-pitying scots are understandable (they really are basically colonized, it's just that other scots are the ones colonizing them), the nationalist scots are progressive and understandable (independence would break one half of the scottish ruling class and force the other half to develop properly), and even the whining cringing scots are understandable (they're either middle class wankers benefiting from present arangements, or cringe because their country is embarrassing, which it is - if it wasn't embarrassing it'd be independent.)
meanwhile the english have no interest in the fascinating little freak nation that is Scotland, little to no reflection on the freakish chimera that is britain despite it directly concerning them (not that they could accurately understand it without understanding Scotland), and a disconcerting habit of producing blowhards who presume to speak without investigating first. if you cannot describe the unique class structure of scottish society, the only reason you should speak of scotland is to admit that you're going to edinburgh/glasgow/st. andrews because you didn't get your poxbridge first/second UCAS choices.
>>2645260this is because you've aggregated a nation into a region. do the same for Ireland and it's richer than even London.
scotland has some very rich areas indeed (you can identify them because they vote Labour) and it has other areas that are complete shitholes.
the best case scenario for federalism only comes once Scotland (and possibly Wales) leave. Only then can England seriously look at federalizing itself, or, indeed, engage with the fact that the South of England loathes and detests the north and wants it to die just as the ruling class from the central belt loathed and detested the highlands and islands of Scotland.
tl;dr nationalism is dumb but Scottish Nationalism is historically progressive and, as nationalist arguments go, theirs are some of the least dumb ever advanced. frankly, even "vote for independence because if we'd done it 50 years ago everyone - even the English - would be better off" is in the top 10% of nationalist arguments worldwide. After all, a fuckup of that magnitude is a convincing case against the status quo. >>2645260also as a pedantic little point: oil was ~10% of scottish GDP in 2021.
29035 - 2903.5 > poorer than north west england, about level with the midlands. a surprising underperformance given that scotland legitimately has much better governance arrangements and better-maintained institutional traditions in the public sector (because devolution generally protected them from blair) than the north of england.
>>2645260>GDP per capita is a good measure of the general level of wealth >there is no regional variation within scotland itself >there are no regionally specific economic factors throwing the data out of whack>10-12% of the population dont live in a financial capital >Aberdeen isn't real, oil just bubbles up right into the petrol station If you're not selling oil, insurance, or whiskey, there is literally fuck all in Scotland and there is countless scare pieces about how melted its deprived regions are
English hands, probably from the home counties, wrote this post
>>2645314We have much better govt, but have been held back by SOMETHING for a long time.
Also of note: The SNP are CUTTING TAXES this year, thats right: they are raising the income tax thresholds to reflect inflation, an real terms tax cut.
Reform = taxes up
Labour = taxes up
Tories = Taxes up
WOKE COMMUNIST LITTLE NICKYS NO PIZZA GAZA VACCINE PARTY = taxes down
GREAT BRITISH CLOWN WORLD. NOTHING MAKES SENSE AND THE PROLES DON'T MATER :):):):):)
>>2645198English people trying to claim Scotland was the vanguard of the empire is the funniest bit.
Like, yeh Scottish people like to pretend it didn't happen, but there are some fairly obvious factors which mystify its role and muddy the waters a bit
England there is no such factors, its a straight case of London being the beating heart of the largest empire ever no ifs no buts and then cranky boys named Clive or Nigel or something are like
>erm actually Scotland did it worse >>2645170there is no movement for a federal Britain, zero, its a secret third thing that doesn't exist like the magical socialist forces in Iran or the REAL SOCIALISTS (NOT MADURO) In Venezuela.
Scottish Independence makes sense because by every measure and every poll scotland is more left wing than England, therefore they should consolidate that.
It is also more anti imperialist by a country mile, its party leaders were actively pro palestine while in England its wall to wall zio dogs.
>>2645408taxes are down so much that the working proles get another 35 quid a year in there pockets while there rent rises by 10-25%
actual simmer doon
>>2645425Sorry toff the queens engl*sh isnt my native tongue
>>2645454too busy goonan to the images
>>2645420yeh i dont support the snp i just think its funny that they are the only ones of all of them
Another day and the BBC and Labour are again both shouting "won't anyone think of the poor Israeli fascist ultra zionist football hooligans?"
Why do they care so much about a small number of violent extremists being denied the chance to smash up British streets?
>>2645850Ever since WWII all the allied governments went the other way and created a system of Jewish privilege, yes I said it
>>2645444How do people even get it to work? I tried to play it and it's just infinitely stuck on the loading screen.
>>2645859>Ever since WWIIIt was the same before WWII albeit less formal. Why do you think the Nazis come to power?
>>2645910Only in Britain with the Balfour Declaration in 1917, it took WWII for the formal crowning of Zionism and Jewish Supremacy to become the de facto ideologies of the west
>>2645937It's become a naked conflict in that the various state actors and adjuncts tasked with maintaining the rule of law are engaged in a civil repression of heterodox or dissident views.
It's clearly just the consolidation of political power within the state and with it a tightening grip of class rule; terms such as justice and democracy have absolutely nothing to do with it as notions unto themselves.
>>2645963there is a certain sadism in the way they publicly humiliate their critics with these apologies, and they never let one slide. Grudge bearers to the max
>>2645857>Only 13 yearsWhat do you want?
Seriously the burgerification of british justice with braindead morons demanding anyone goes to prison for a quadrillion years.
>>2645405>English hands, probably from the home counties, wrote this postScottish, from Moray.
>>2645444What game is this lol?
>>2646121i dont think he should serve any time, cos preferably, he would be executed for being such a waste of life, and a threat to society.
>>2646126Game called Pathways, meant to be a counter extremist education piece but it's just blatant state funded propaganda for pro-migrant and anti-nationalist rhetoric
>>2646138The death penalty does nothing but crude revenge, it’s just more sublimation
If you’re really for the death penalty you need to ask yourself it it’s worth it for the state to inevitably kill innocent people wrongly convicted
>>2646138Ah, "just kill peopleism", because that worked so well for the hundreds of years we tried that.
>>2645420That's much better than the rUK (remember: the gap isn't £35 cut Vs nothing, it's £35 cut Vs an increase) despite the SNP currently being flailing bankrupt losers
(Sturgeon was a horrible leader who institutionally broke the party by centralising control too much. By UK standards probably better than most PMs but by any other standard abysmal, in some ways worse because she broke something of value)
>>2646198I reckon some kind of "Running Man" type situation for these wankers
>>2646166>crude revengeyes, thats the elementary meaning of justice…
>>2646217if you are bad enough, you deserve to die
thats an entirely uncontroversial statement
>>2646198innocent people are also locked up for life btw
a much crueller fate
Big Brutha, except the big brother house is HMP Belmarsh
reminder that Scottish lowlanders wanted to genocide the outer hebridies because they thought it was a giant piece of fertile farmland, and their "success" in doing this (it was a disaster saved at the last minute by co-opting a local leader and going "oh yeah he's /ourguy/") motivated then moving on to Northern Ireland.
the odd irony of Scotland is that Scottish Nationalism is basically a progressive, bottom-up force because the Scottish ruling class is odd and bifurcated. It is true in one sense that Scots were the vanguard of empire - ruling class Scots, who insisted most strongly that they were
North British - while working class Scots kept their Scottish identity. The highland clearances were driven by Scots, not English, but the sort of Scots driving it were the sort of Scots who wanted to impress or become the English, while the sort of Scots who suffered for it were the sort of Scots content to be Scottish.
Several oddities flow from this: Scotland doesn't really have a domestic bourgeoisie at any real scale, because for the most part the Scottish bourgeoisie become the British bourgeoise. They engage with a market of 70 million rather than 5 million. The upper strata of Scottish society then becomes "civil society", which explains all the odd traditions of Scottish civic nationalism (e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claim_of_Right_1989 is basically what happens when you get politicians, clergy, headteachers, lawyers, and other upper-strata administrators together to go "we should be able to run our affairs", and indeed the affairs run by the Scottish parliament are administrative, not economic.)
This is also where Scotland diverges from Northern England. This upper strata can lobby for itself as a special case in a way that Northerners, restricted to being English, cannot. A large reason for Scotland's specifically strong loathing of Thatcher is that she had no class basis in Scotland (the bourgeoisie and petit bourgeoisie are weaker) but her reforms really fucked over the administrators - hence they went more strongly for nationalism-lite and demanded a parliament that could protect their interests. So you can combine working class loathing for her with a local ruling class hate which was absent in England. (Even where it really should've been present - the northern bourgeois factory owner suffered from her bad policy too.)
It would be wrong to say Scotland is a colony of England, but it is run and administered a lot like a colony in this regard, and in the way it conducts economic policy. The administrators are very used to leaving economic affairs to outsiders (including London-based Scots), so the economic strategy is always agglomeration benefits and "inward investment" (selling your companies to foreigners).
listening to accents in Scotland is often fun. A lot of English sounding people really are Scots, Scots who don't much care for being Scots, who let it slip only when they say "outwith">>2646266yeah that's better, thanks
>>2646239on the balance of everything this budget is a massive fuck you to the working class, they put £35 in your pocket while removing rent controls and putting the average persons rent up by like 10-30%, just more liberal bullshit.
>>2646259>thats an entirely uncontroversial statementposting something on a filipino origami forum doesnt make it true.
>>2646123the home counties of Scotland
>>2646396Pendantry: Rent controls weren't removed in the budget, they lapsed earlier in the year & their replacement is legislated but not yet in force
The budget (and surrounding actions) is basically panic. John Swinney is cautious and wants to govern with the lib Dems because (contra leftypol) the greens do actually demand something from the SNP, and on current polling they'll need the greens.
>>2646643Yeah by the rent controls expiring im more moaning about how they did nothing to address the accelerating rents by re-introducing them in this budget.
I've went from spending like 500 in rent to over a grand in like 2-3 years and our wages are all shite, giving more rope to the landlords is as expected by any of the neo-liberal pish parties that the UK is dominated by.
Having spent time with green types im yet to be convinced they arent just libbed out half NIMBY half 'my dad is rich and this is me rebelling' radlib types who think reforming this mess is still the correct road, dont want to take away dads toys type beats.
The reverance with which the supposed left are hailing the Palestinian hunger strikers is absolutely fucking miserable.
The premise of their convictions is that in choosing to focus and highlight the hunger strikers as an act of resistance what will endure is a collective legacy akin to those British social democratic movements of the 20th century in which eventually justice triumphed (the anti-apartheid movement).
Corbyn, Sultana, or whichever follower of this line you choose to regard share this same ideological premise in which the political landscape is held as intransigent and ahistorical, thus the question for these individuals in their actual praxis falls to one of a polite, civil, or in other words a pacifist disobedience.
The overall strategy for this follows that the given conditions for such protests triumph because of an eventual electoral success which leads to significant changes in state policy by overturning those governments who lose their mandates precisely due to these issues.
This is absolutely credulous because it ignores both the conditions which brought about the doubling down of the British state in its support for Zionism and the fact that all the wings of Parliament (Labour, Conservative, Reform) are currently stacked much like a deck in both their foreign policy directives and national defence guidelines.
Parliament itself not only cannot but will not subvert this rule (unconditional support for Israel) because the central historical tendancy now taking shape is a restructuring of the global international order in which Britain's economic interests are interwoven with that of its militarist ends; Your Party are completely incapable of mounting an assault on this precisely becasue they are incapable of securing that portion of the vote with which to institute said change.
This hard and fast block is not one merely of the capacity of convincing its voters to choose in favour of the Palestinians, but is actively conditioned by the support both the British and American bourgeoisie are choosing with which to shape the outcome of this in their interests. This is to say that given the degree and extent to which both have consolidated their power, with the incumbent Trump administration and the decade long rule of the Tory party, change from within purely an electoral basis is actively precluded.
Such that when Sultana, Corbyn, or whichever credulous figure you chose to associate this with who praises in support the efforts of these strikers, what they are effectively banking on is a vision for a society which does not and simply will never exist.
The end result being that they inflect the present moment of change with the stupidity of an optimism which in the end is paralised by its incapacity to draw an actual line of resistance to the present order, primarily because they seek reformism, and are in other words nothing more than bourgeois socialists.
What is absolutely disgusting is that the values they envision in society will eventually kill the remaining hunger strikers if they continue, for nothing more than the stupid idealism of would-be democrats. This is not to say that the hunger strikers are misguided in their actions, but merely that the historical conditions in which such actions would offer meaningful political valence to the present Palestinian cause no longer exist. Precisely because extrajudicial charges have been placed upon them, i.e. terror charges.
Starmer, Badenoch, Farage, and their collective parties will not shake on this issue because it is an existential one for the present British state; in the end, it is either them or the strikers.
>>2646817In a word, the stupidity of these individuals is that they imagine change as capable of coming from within the British state itself when in fact its imperial policies are nothing more than the dictates of its business class, i.e. the national bourgeoisie.
The hunger strikers will die martyrs, but it will be a social murder revered by the sheer stupdiity and decrepitude of would-be socialists who will not commit to the actual abolition of capitalism. Thus their murders would be instrumentalised as nothing more than weapons for the simple end of openly contradicting within Parliamentary debate the incapacity to mount a meaningful challenge to the established political order, and simply serving as a mirror to hold up to British imperialism as a reminder for what it presently is and will be.
An immediate parallel may be drawn with Renee Good; challenges originating from the working people as civil disobedience will simply evaporate, either because the capacity for the bourgeois state to engage in political repression is so advanced that it may dismiss these challenges or because the wider population simply do not care or actively support such repressive policies.
>>2646837>>2646817To continue this little rant:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jan/14/three-palestine-action-protesters-end-their-hunger-strikeThe strikers are essentially claiming a partial victory in the government's deferal in its military contracts. Corbyn argues that by a process of incremental action such change can be effected that the British state's position on Israel can be renegotiated through what is essentially a civil war of political attrition.
Again, this is such utter horseshit. The class interests of this nation are fundamentally determined by its trade policies, which regard the suppression and institutionalised usage of regime change in foreign colonial or otherwise subordinated nations as an over-riding maxim.
What they claim as a victory for Palestine is given away with the loss of Maduro in Venezuela precisely because Britain is carrying out tanker seizures, spy flights over Gaza, and systematically rearming with its deeper intergration into both NATO and the European security complex. They have no answer to these issues because the basis for their support is, has been, and always shall be drawn from a mode of political organisation which both privileges and preserves the present existing set of social relations as they seek to resolve the set of political and economic contradictions from within its own mode of legislature, Parliament.
As a result you end up with a two fold response whereby their dismal commitments to international action reflect the absurd end of buying off their voters with the promises of systematic welfare and social reforms, such promises being made as an attempt to resolve latent class relations whilst securing past living standards which were and remain holy and unconditionally dependent on the intergration of Britain into the global imperialist economic order.
What's absolutely fucking abysmal is that none of them seem to have recognised the political shift that has occurred; the ruling classes globally are consolidating their power base as an international redivision occurs. Quote:
<“Our prisoners’ hunger strike will be remembered as a landmark moment of pure defiance, an embarrassment for the British state. It exposed to the world Britain has political prisoners in service of a foreign genocidal regime, and has seen hundreds of people commit to take direct action in the prisoners’ footsteps.”On this fact alone they are not wrong: these individuals are political prisoners, precisely because the home office intervened to place them under terror charges. The British state is engaged in an extrajudicial politic in which it is charging its citizens with laws which permit the denial of their basic rights, i.e. the legitimate recognition of their status and claim to citizenship within Britain.
Those still claiming the strikes as some victory are locked in a period of history wherein political action was limited to a prior conception of individual freedoms wherein there was a due seperation of powers limiting the bourgeoisie from arraigning its opposition on the basis of mere differences in opinion. As of today, this has vanished. The stasis in the class relations which were displaced based upon the post-war organisation which secured British workers interests has disappeared, and with it what has reemerged is the basic war between worker and capital primarily symptomatic in the sustained degradation of British society that is propelling Reform into power.
Hence there is simply what may be termed a monocontinuity in the spectrum of the party establishment, in which there is no real choice or difference between the parties because all are aligned with interests of Capital, each merely representing the interests of one faction over another. That Your Party exist outside of this system is of absolutely no consequence, precisely because they remain systematically excluded on an institutional and national basis.
The endorsment of the hunger striker's struggle for Palestine and its lionization is nothing more than an accreditation and vouching for a completely inert body that has no real capability of changing the fate of the British proletariat. That they call themselves socialist is absolutely laughable.
16-24 polling for the upcoming welsh election:
43% green
42% plaid
6% reform
5% lib dem
4% labour
0% tory
the young are unspeakably based, labour are unspeakably fucked.
>>2645444Funny how the right are up in arms over Prevent now, I don't remember them complaining when it just targeted Muslims
>>2647542Their retort to this is that Prevent is unfit for purpose and needs replacing.
This typical response online is then usually woven into an attack on Starmer, serving the dual purpose of building on popular discontent for the current government (radicalising would-be opponents) whilst undermining the legitimacy of the state itself viewing the two as indistinguishable. Inevitably, this summons every form of bottom-feeder in terms of political commentary as each plies their wares cloaked in some of the most ideologically backwards signalling, meshing the social chauvinism of British nationalism, extremist American anti-authoritarianism, and anti-migrant hysteria.
Venom is then usually hurled as the right's serial propagandists realise that this collective wound must be disguised by all means necessary, doing so by claiming it is the injustice of the political repression of their own patriotism. Tactically they have realised their collective position is based on their individual efforts to overcome Prevent's censure (which does not actually function in the first place) as well as similar strategies by establishment media and anti-fascist groups which seek to constrain their efforts, such that they stake their entire being on challenging these bodies through a narrative of deligitmisation.
The entire basis for their sucess in this is achieved through the intergration of various content feeds in order to win supporters. Because this basis for support remains an uneasy alliance of alternative partially disunified media sources drawn primarily from the ranks of the petty bourgeoisie (suckling at the teat of Capital) there is no broad allegiance for true ideological coherence as the majority of their propagandising is achieved simply through a form of commercialism in which the truth must still be sold.
Ironically, they are correct. Prevent is unfit for purpose because it has failed in countering the growth of their rhetoric primarily because its creation came at a time when the political establishment believed it could merely legislate away the ills of bourgeois society. What you see with Prevent is the legacy of a weakened and sclerotic class rule being progressivley overcome by the very social forces it has failed to control.
>>2647533>basedfunny how none of them can get behind protecting the North Sea from over-fishing,I guess that is the wrong kind of green initiative
>>2647939Oh look it's the single issue anon again
>>2647939Which part of Wales sits on the North Sea?
Why is the Conservative Party being run by an african lady?
>>2647985They get a token coon so they can mog the other parties 'progressiveness' as being a facade.
Same thing with Obama and Thatcher
>>2647939Literally not our problem
>>2647997The Conservative Party is pretty diverse. They have a lot of pakis in there too.
>>2647939The Green party is just a vehicle for disparate policy initiatives with no capacity to negotiate between its planned political-economic governance and the interests of its supporters, solely because its electoral success is as a protest vote.
The entire party is one big clown car full of every kind of circus act in order to attract the attention of would be voters. They will, in all likelyhood, end up crippling Wales in the years to come through sustained mismanagement as their members attempt to drive through the Senedd bills which capitalise on their superficial popularity in order to win re-election.
Eventually this will be seized upon by British nationalists who will accuse them of imcompetence and simply out-maneuver them due to their own political disorganisation.
>>2648035It's deeply ironic that the Greens have ascended in popularity in the stead of Labour because their own internal disunity is reflective of the wider disintegration within British society regarding its own electorate's political ambitions. The Greens are nothing more than a symbolic compromise in an attempt to bargain with the demands placed upon the British working class by the social changes inherent to capitalism in an attempt to resecure the political consensus of the late millennium and with it living standards through a reversion to a time when there was an ideological unity between the two main bourgeois parties. It is on this basis that both the Green party itself and their voters rationalise their success as a counter-response to the growth of Reform.
Eventually whether by the sheer stupidity of the parties own disunity or the lowering fortunes of the British working class as a result of the British bourgeoisie's intensifying class rule, the Greens will collapse into the same flat alternative that Labour currently represents.
>>2647952It's quite a big issue, and one they could at least acknowledge is a downside to being involved with the EU
>>2648005Immigrants tend to be more socially conservative and status quo to blend in and not stand out, this isnt a surprise at all.
>>2648068do you think the strings are cut every 4 years or something?
>>2648109>do you think the strings are cutI think the phenomenon of immigrants voting conservative and in turn being absorbed by the party is pretty well understood from the windrush generation onward.
They come into a class based, racist society and in order to fit in, they vote for the 'deafult' party (tories) and adopt socially conservative attitudes.
Granted they tend to come from colonized, socially conservative countries but this is also inherited from us - one hand feeds the other.
>>2646431what? saying that bad things should happen to bad people is not in dispute as to its moral judgement. it is an entirely uncontroversial statement, as i repeat.
>>2648187hogwash, lib dems are he classic brown party
>>2648187also Birmingham is basically 50% 'not white' so your 'just fitting in' theory is out the window there
>>2648211Her utter absence of charisma also helps.
>>2648213I think she is a good speaker to be fair to her
>>2648215she's also one of the fitter MPs we have
>>2648208the UK is larger than one city, its also just one aspect of it there is clearly other factors.
>>2648204just another shade of tory who cares
>>2648211trvke
>>2648223trvke would tongue her bum
i have terrible sense of dread that the british state wants WW3 and that this purgatory of treat-dom that we are languishing in is shortly coming to an end
>>2648246Yeah its in the air, everyone can feel it.
>>2648051I'm not sure that's fair. If, by some miracle, the Greens took over and betrayed everyone that'd still be a step up from Labour
1. To betray you, they'd have to have got your hopes up to begin with
2. Most likely, they'd keep that hopeful rhetoric even as they stabbed you in the eyes, Nicola Sturgeon style.
3. Assuming they did use the Sturgeon playbook, there would be some good but insufficient initiatives between the bungling incompetence and status-quo betrayals.
It's perhaps the most subtly infuriating thing about Starmer's government: do-nothing right-wing social democracy
which says the right thing is cheap and easy. Labour could be emphasizing their rail "re-nationalization" program aggressively and making "oohh-err" noises about social conservatism and anti-immigration sentiment without actually doing anything, but they don't. They do the wrong thing, which is understandable under their current incentive structure,
while saying the wrong thing, which is unforgivable.
If I ran Labour,
even within Labour's own suicidal fiscal targets, they'd be polling at least a consistent 25-30% of the vote and the Green vote share would be at least 40% lower.
>>2648407>that'd still be a step up from LabourThis is what is meant by a reversion to the ideological consensus; the Green party poses itself as a direct substitution for that era of governance in which it can present an image of its own internal unity as capable of providing it a mandate in achieving its broader policy ideals through electoral success by its appeals to politically disenfranchised and skeptical voters through promising the world. Thus the party is composed through the most ridiculous game of charades in which its representatives battle politically to curry favour with Labour's thinning share by donning whichever outfit is required to secure them power.
The premise of the Green's growth for these clowns hinges on those key drivers of social and political decay which are the result of years of a purposefully designed deadlock between the two main parties in their governance. The party itself has absolutely no coherent understanding of these material factors and simply envisions the crisis which is currently occurring as the result of a progressive failure inherent in the two party system; thus the Greens further label themselves as a democratic alternative without ever needing to account for the fact that should they gain victory they will be hung, drawn, and quatered by the same necessities which presently face Labour, those being compromise with British business interests - managing the exchequer - and factional infighting.
In turn, the same structural defecits which merely led to a reshuffling of power would as a result destroy the Greens. The party itself has no independent momentum seperate from that which has led to the current political-economic divisions of British society nor does it have the capacity to build it; their present meagre success is the result of the disintegrating social order which has endured as a result of the legacy of those temporary victories which were afforded to workers in Britain as a result of concessions granted to it by the bourgeoisie in the maintenance of an imperialist agenda.
The party itself represents the absolute decadance of British bourgeois society, in that it seeks to impose that particular form of moral individualism which is unique to the capitalist social order by simply attatching an ethical conscience to the state's systematic repression of workers whilst promising little more than private subsidies in its goal for an energy transition to renewables. Its political apparatus is festooned with absolute
clowns who engage in the most prolific apologia for bourgeois society whilst positioning themselves as antagonists to the contemporary state of affairs.
Labour, however pathetically, have the reptutation of being proficent technocrats in their appeasment of bourgeois interests through an institutional awareness of their role, something the Greens have as of yet to learn
>>2648407> and making "oohh-err" noises about social conservatism and anti-immigration sentiment without actually doing anything, but they don't. This is fundamentally because of the polarising social changes which have led to a sustained political reaction against migrants, in which Labour are seen as part of the legitimate target of an anti-establishment populist vote (Reform) along with the Conservatives who are taken as at fault.
If they were to attempt to fight back in the chamber in the vein of opposing anti-migrant rhetoric it would be political suicide, as their turnout would drop even lower.
>>2648266labour are shit
tories are shit
reform are shit
its nothing but shit
>>2648533'Clown' is actually the wrong term for these individuals who form its representatives; they are, like the rest of the ruling class, social parasites who strive as well-purposed tools to fashion society in their own dismal image whilst securing for themselves their own private collective means for well-being.
Their fictionalised relation to society under the most grotesque appeals to the sacrosanct values of bourgeois democracy, individual justice, and climate activism are nothing more than convenient cloaks for a philistine sentimentalism which excuses the actions of its economic base in its goal for the maintenance of wage slavery and production under the dictates of capital.
In short, they are the absolute dregs of British bourgeois society whose apologia provides currency to the sustained illusion given to workers as to the false representation of their class interests by smothering class conflict with a veneer of moral idealism.
>>2648266>Migrant-rape mention>Migrant hotel mention>Benefit scounrger mention>Anti-union mentionBoy this speech has everything
>>2648588Doing anti-union rhetoric in 2026 is such a cargo cult. You fuckers won! The union movement is unironically weaker than it was in the 1860s, what the fuck do you want exactly?? For them to just be illegal? Would anyone actually notice if they were???
>>2648266Besides the discourse of anti-migrant hysteria, for anyone who missed it Jenrick does something interesting in this speech where he explicitly counterposes the ECHR against national defence priorities.
Their attempt at abandoning the ECHR would offer them the opportunity to draft a British bill of rights which would give them a free hand at completely redrawing the legal framework in which they can curtail basic freedoms such as the right to political demonstration and grant broader powers to the security state, i.e. by reworking terror convictions. In short, repression.
>>2648607It's a strategy of class rule designed to weaken and isolate their political opponents. So long as the threat of organised labor exists they will never rest. If you go back to the speech there's a point in which he refers to 'dangerous' left elements; what's happening here is a broad base appeal to both their members as well as the various state actors in which they're signalling that they plan to adopt sustained policy measures which work to exclude fringe political elements from seeking to commandeer positions of power that wish to undo its civil and national defence architecture. It's a language of securitisation wherein an opposition is proscribed on the basis of the threat it poses to the state and thus deligitimised.
This is basically a reference to Your Party and an attempt to further sanction political action which is counter to British strategic interests by circumventing issues of Parliamentary accountability regarding foreign policy and policing powers. Essentially they will oust any democratic oversight on the management of these affairs through a majority, using the most backward nationalist rhetoric in order to justify this. Again, what's absolutely dangerous is that regarding Palestine the Home Office has already intervened in a judicial ruling to charge 600 protestors under the Terror Act.
When Reform wins this will look like childs play.
>>2648554It wouldn't though. The people who voted Labour in 2024 are not the the kind of people who'd be put off my pro immigration rhetoric - if they were they wouldn't vote Labour! Starmer's tilts against immigration have done nothing to win over anti-immigration voters, but much to alienate Labour voters. If you want to argue immigration is a real problem the solution is simple: talk positively about it all the time, but slash immigration numbers in the background.
Labour's fundamental, unforgivable problem is that they do not understand their brand. They are a party associated with being good on the NHS, pro-welfare, and pro-migrant. They've succeeded in destroying 2/3 or maybe even 3/3 of those pillars and instead of elevating their poll ratings to the old Tory or current Reform numbers, they've decimated their own support because - shockingly - the people who voted Labour did so because they liked what the Labour brand vaguely represented. (If you wish to maintain that this is a right wing country and their brand is dead weight, fair enough: but they've taken a ~35% of the vote brand and made it a ~17% of the vote brand)
Imagine if the SNP declared tomorrow it was anti independence because polls show Yes would lose a future referendum: the result wouldn't be the SNP getting 55% of the vote, it would be a chunk of their Yes voting support abandoning them while no unionists defected because they've already got strong anti-independence parties. Every day, Starmer goes out and does the equivalent of the SNP declaring itself anti-independence.
The sturgeon comparison holds here too: she went out and declared that a referendum was coming any day now for the best part of a decade, while having no real plan for one. The SNP declare themselves probably independence but don't actually have a plan to get around the UK saying no. People are a bit annoyed at them for it, but they'd bleed even more support if they said they'd given up. >>2648670>The people who voted Labour in 2024 are not the the kind of people who'd be put off my pro immigration rhetoricThis simply isn't true; migration is a radioactive issue which has propelled Reform to the level of success it currently enjoys. You can argue about this as much as you like, but the fundamental fact remains that the media have geared the electorate into a hysteria regarding Conservative migrant figures and what is percieved as Labour's inaction regarding illegal migration. Labour were elected on the promise of cracking down on migration following what was viewed as Conservative incompetence and its catastrophic results for workers economically.
>Kurdistan demo
>Walk past main theatre
>loads of people outside
>4 white british bleached hair-fake tan women, 2 younger 2 older
<they start throwing up kurdish hand signs
Life is funny sometimes.
Calling it now, the "Greenland issue" is a psy-op to try to goad China into Taiwan this year by NATO.
>>2648696What's funny about that? Eveyone knows Kurdistan is a liberal issue.
If you use twatter you are literally retarded. And I don't mean that as insult, but there is nothing substantial you can say in 200 characters. That platform is literally designed to breed retarded people. Which is worrying considering most politicians now spend most of their time on it.
>>2648682Reform is a realignment of the right. The main Lab > Reform voter pathway is 2017 Lab > 2019 Con > 2024 Ref or Con > now definite Ref. There are very few straight 2024 Lab > Now Ref switchers.
Labour were elected by default with mostly the same voter coalition as 2019 (minus some of the left), low turnout and a right-wing split turned that into a victory. The fallacy people make is assuming that Labour picked up seats by gaining right wing voters rather than by holding their left/liberal 2019 voters while the Tories lost half their vote to Reform. If the right weren't split, Labour would've gone down to a dismal defeat in 2024. (Indeed, you'd basically get the 2019 election all over again)
Labour's current polling woes cannot, therefore, be blamed on losing voters to the right. When Labour loses voters to the right it gets ~30% of the vote as in 1983 or 2019, to poll below that Labour has to actively destroy their core vote base. That is their failure: I am not confident I could win the 2029 election for Labour, but I am confident I could maintain ~30% of the vote and keep the party alive with my radical strategy of "telling Labour voters the sort of things they want to hear from a Labour prime minister instead of cosplaying as a Reform government in such a way as to piss off both Labour and Reform voters"
Reform won't kill Labour, but The Greens and Lib Dems easily can.
The LDs really are failing too, you'd think rich libs would ditch Labour for them. Maybe they're addicted to backing losers. https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/50658-why-did-britons-vote-the-way-they-did-in-2024Nobody voted Labour to control immigration but lots of people voted Reform for that purpose.
(Which is obvious: who buys Irn Bru for health? Quorn for it's meat content?)
>>2648792If this were true the party would have backed down in its attempts to outflank Reform on anti-migrant rhetoric; it is precisely because both their core and swing voters have jumped ship to Reform that the empty shell of their base is left to be hollowed out between the Greens and the Lib Dems.
A shift has occured in Britain regarding migration which has driven the issue to its present apogee with the burning of hotels and the serialising of supposed rape scandals as hot bed issues. Again, they are symptoms of the wider social decay that are percieved to be the legacy of the two party system; Reform have united cross-wing support from the electorate precisely as a reaction to this.
Attempting to explain the basis for this support as limited to a realignment of just one spectrum misses the entire point in that the cross-party division of worker's interests between Labour and the Conservatives has vanished, hence it makes no sense to talk anymore of a left-right division. Historical developments are underway in that the reorgnaisation of the bourgeois political establishment within these parties are reflections or expressions of the fractures which exist within British society.
What exists today in 2026 is a transitory social order defined by the movement from a post-war political consensus to one in which Britain is repositioning itself within the international system. In this the political interests of workers, in so far as they take shape, are drawn between one of a progressively growing extremism in social conservatism and a more broadly defined liberal worldview.
Attempting to explain this change through the rubric of the conventional party dynamics which have reigned for the past 80 years is nonsense. The Greens do not stand to succeed from Labour but merely inherit an inert voter base which provides it nothing in terms of oppositional power. The situation 5 years ago was unbearable, the situation today is catastrophic, as democratic rule within Britain has been reduced to a one-party consensus that has united an electorate through the most backward political reaction behind the growing savageness of the bourgeoisie.
>>2648736The character limit hasn’t been a thing in years, trump is posting full essays constantly
>>2648834>>2648792This is to say that you cannot understand the present situation nor the shift in support from Labour to Reform, and Labour's subsequent death, through the traditional party model.
The sucumbing of Labour and the Conservatives to Reform is directly a product of their adoption of austerity and the refusal to change direction. This is what vitiates Reform and its supporters behind a blind adherence to the proposition of change under even more extreme pro-business policies.
I despise all royalists. Saw through that paedophile freak Charles Windsor's throat.
nigel is just playing the trump 2016 playbook but modified a bit for his own brand and for uk politics. the whole outsider who promises to change things. labour arent going to budge on immigration, and tories shot themselves in the foot with boris wave. boris would still be PM if he had lowered immigration
>>2648834>>2648839I am not using the traditional party model, I am using an advertising model. You would not sell Irn Bru as a healthy English drink - that's not a credible brand association. It will alienate the people who buy it due to its Scottish association, but not gain a single health conscious English consumer.
Similarly, you cannot sell Labour as an anti-immigrant party. At best you can convince anti-immigrant voters to put the NHS first (Labour's brand is, after all, credible on the NHS), but that can be done without offering anything but platitudes on immigration.
Reform's success is overhyped: they have never polled over 40%. It's a good result for a newish market entrant and it's an election-winning figure if they can hold it, but it's nothing close to "unifying" the electorate. On today's polling, Ref+Con get 47% of the vote - scary stuff until you realize that's only 1% more than Con+Brexit Party in 2019.
>>2648834One-party dictatorship*
What needs to be clarified for the context of this discussion is that what is meant by British society is bourgeois society proper. The form that political representation takes therein is a direct mirror to that mode of expression society takes for itself, i.e. as a capitalist one.
This is to say that the hetrogenous views of British workers are formed beneath the banner of bourgeois democratic parties that are, in all forms, allied in one shape or another to the various business interests they represent. What is meant by the fact that British society is fractured is to state that that social order which has existed in the form of the post-war consensus has finally shattered, primarily because the world itself is being reshaped on a global level to one which is multipolar.
The surface expression that these class divisions take are being reorganised into those more similar of 19th century Capitalism. I can't be bothered to go into this at half 4 in the morning, but it's utterly fucking stupid to project as eternal the static left-right dichotomy of Parliamentary wings onto current affairs.
All that cares to be said is that British workers must reconcile themselves with the fact that what is about to break out is the most blatant, brutal conflict between the two classes and the ever intensifying class rule of the bourgeoisie.
In this, what the failing alternatives to Labour represent is an attempt by said workers is to purchase by way of selling their vote to these shysters for the partial relief from the extremities of class rule.
>>2648607unions are protectionist rackets and should be considered bourgeois
>>2649008e.g doctors holding patient health to ransom for mo moneh
>>2648620well yeah…
the right wing of this country has been using the issue of immigration as a pretext to abolish human rights for a while now. they talk about it openly. in 1997 we got a new constitution which the right see as the pandora's box for all of today's political incompetence, despite of course, blair being the most competent PM we've had in decades. its strange that these people always blame blair and not the 15 years of tory leadership afterwards, including the floodgates being opened with the boriswave, following the disastrous brexit referendum. remember when farage said brexit would save the NHS? now he's got a new scam everyone is lining up for.
>>2648464reform voters are not patricians, im afraid.
>>2649008>>2649010
>t. benefits claimantget a job, we should all be holding these people ransom for more monies.
>>2649248>get a jobtheres zero point being employed except for status
>>2649307not having to deal with the bennies office is reason enough
>>2649313just fake a disability to your GP and then send in your ESA form to the DWP. its done online now.
>>2649315but I actually want to work a job
>>2649246are you illiterate
the first section of that post explicitly articulates that a green government
would not work, but might make nice noises as it betrayed you.
the second section of that post condemns labour for not making nice noises as it fails. (we cannot really say it betrayed, as it failed to create any expectations it'd be good)
the last paragraph explicitly says "i could get better poll numbers for labour
without fixing things, by sticking to their own doomed economic policy", which, again, takes "neoliberal electoralism won't work at fixing things" for granted.
the fundamental basis for the post is taking the doomed nature of electoralism for granted so much that it becomes a game of "academically, how well can you poll without fixing anything?" rather than a question of how we fix things. the reason we're wasting oxygen on this is because the situation is so bleak, that's about the best you can imagine: not good social democracy at the ballot box, but a bastard who's at least smart enough to lie to protect his own image.
(and, equally, it's something to explain: "why did corbyn fail?" is easy compared to "why is starmer failing to lie instead of following the Sturgeon/Ardern model of talk without much delivery?")
Political fallout from the latest detection continues:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/16/robert-jenrick-tells-lies-says-kemi-badenoch-conservative-nigel-farage-reform-ukNothing more than a privileged social strata of vermin crawling atop one another as they reposition themselves in that rats nest of British Parliamentary democracy.
Jenrick is seeking along with Reform to cause as much damage to the Tories as they attempt to hold its head beneath the water, in effect drowning its main opposition.
The only thing of note is that he issues a statement declaring that 'the future of the country is at stake', echoing the eschatological narrative of the far right propagandists by employing the same narrative.
>>2649661weird how they catch the white ones before they do it
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