Singapore is an economical and social miracle undoubtedly, low rate of corruption, high rate of employment, FDI, Income and quality of life in general.
All this achieved through a strict neoliberal economy, Lee Yew is practically worshipped by Neoliberal for not only his policies but also for his Anti-communist operations.
Marxist (atleast I haven't found any) can point out to any contradiction plaguing Singaporean multicultural society.
Does this economical path is the way to prosperity, as an alternative to liberal western ideology.
What does /leftypol/ say on this? Can he be refuted by Dialectical Materialism?
61 posts and 12 image replies omitted.>>2618306>Observations about ethnicities isn't necessarily racistI hate nationalists
>>2618319Hmm, I had knowledge about the 1969 riot but the 2013 one was not known to me and it also happened after 44 years since the last riot of 1969. At last something has come up.
There is contradiction indeed. Thanks OP.
I am sorry comrades, There are contradictions, history has not stalled yet, it will be interesting to see in the future how these get resolved.
>>2618358There's nothing nationalistic about that factual statement.
>>2618387Don't worry comrade, greater knowledge will help you develop your own framework for the future.
>>2618410>>2618387Upon researching more it made sense why Singapore society seems "peaceful".
The racial discrimination does exist and is a reality. But neoliberal economy policies bind it together.
>How?Neoliberalism influenced global migration binds the already rich upper class (not going by ethnicity) to use the lower class migrant population.
And the lower class migrants permit it because their origin country is comparatively a shithole and pay is good in Singapore. This two class are in a social contract, not push everything down the line. Bourgeois promises not to become full on fascists and the lower class promises not to become communists. The governmet is like a refree at this point.
But how many years will this contradiction go on, that is interesting to think about? And I genuinely fear this system where the labour class just accepts their fate (evident in western countries).
What are your thoughts comrade?
>>2618420Anon you might honestly be right. Similar situation in the Gulf coast. Dubai and Qatar being prime examples, the contradictions seem to hold them both together. Millions of Filipino and Indian immigrants over in both countries.
>But how many years will this contradiction go on, that is interesting to think about?I suppose until the ideology, fizzles out, or if the social class no longer sees a benefit in staying over there. As in, if there is an increase in the martial crisis(war, riots), and if there is an increase in the economic crisis(sanctions, depressions). Or, if the ruling ideology collapses, as in, a more unruly strain comes in and disrupts the class.
When do you think it'd collapse?
>>2618431I found an answer in China's recent endeavours . Recently China developed their own EUV prototype despite the sanctions on modern equipments.
Partly because retired ASML scientists of chinese-origin were invited back to their country, and they accepted because the material conditions are so good in China along with government grants. Until the migrant's origin country does not develop rapidly and in their favour, things will things will hardly change in MY OPINION.
After that history will tell.
>>2618420>This two class are in a social contractSocial contract theory is bunk liberal nonsense, fyi.
>>2618420neoliberalism is when you have state enforced ethnic quotas among your government housing units
>>2618464It is because of my lack of proper words, I beg your pardon. I know the labour class is following the self-interest and the bourgeoisie their own.
The social contract theory might be debunked but a nice word to explain the liberal word.
>>2618465Neoliberalism when state takes it hands off the mode of production and destroys any and every collective or social endeavor. So I don't what the fuck you mean by that.
>>2618464Are you autistic? He clearly isn't Hobbes.
>>2618252Sad to be honest.
LKY is and was the perfect Fabian, in the sense of the Fabian society rather than the Fabian strategy.
Dengism is just big Singapore under a communist party. (Rather than arguing about whether that makes Singapore based or China cringe, it's more useful to see how they've played the game, more interesting to speculate on whether China's trying to win it or topple the board in the end…)
>>2619183>>2619035>>2618472You can read about HOW "social contract theory" is bunk (from a Marxist perspective) in this very nice book that I am attaching.
>implying Americans/golden billioniods readhahaha
, still…. >>2618165>All this achieved through a strict neoliberal economySingapore is not neoliberal. Housing, transportation, energy etc are all contingent on the State (with some being entirely owned by the state). The Singaporean government economically hermecize the individual from the market by providing him with enough to survive.
In marxian terms, the gov protects the individual from some of the capitalist contradictions which exist.
>Lee Yew is practically worshipped by Neoliberal for not only his policies but also for his Anti-communist operations.Not really. He's worshipped by libertarians who don't understand how their economy works, ironically often not realizing that the """freedom""" loving Lee has had to create the biggest investment fund in existence and some of the most extensive social policies to guarantee said-freedom to individuals.
And more interestingly, he's also worshipped by illiberal asian countries (like China) for developing an undemocratic yet prosperous society.
>Marxist (atleast I haven't found any) can't point out to any contradiction plaguing Singaporean multicultural society.Singapore is a tax-heaven, depends on foreign labor work who seek citizenship, and is essentially fiscally limited on some enterprise to exist. What do you think happens if these enterprise disappear and labor source ?
>Does this economical path is the way to prosperity, as an alternative to liberal western ideology.No because it's contingent on certain criterias which can't be extrapolated to the entirety of western societies. It's the same reason as to why every european country didn't lower taxes like Ireland to prosper.
It's like saying that the gulf model can be extrapolated to european countries.
>Can he be refuted by Dialectical Materialism?Its existence is actually a pretty good example of the material dialetic given that the people there don't seem to be concerned for their democracy as long as their material needs are ensured.
Even more, its entire existence is predicated on an economic reality : that of having a tax heaven alongside one of the biggest social safety net to safeguard the population from immeseration
>>2618228Marxism can't explain fascism because fascism has "idealist" (and not material) cause.
Fascism is essentially a population forfeiting their liberal rights to safeguard their country from a percieved threat (immigrants, jews, sexual minorities etc). This is why fascism is fundamentally a reactionary right-wing regime. It doesn't try to change societies, but only to radically safeguard it.
>>2619486>Housing, transportation, energy etc are all contingent on the State (with some being entirely owned by the state).So its a socdem tax haven?
>>2619487Yeah somewhat but it's not democratic. So it's more of a social-tax haven
But most tax heavens like Ireland or Bahrein use the funds to redistribute to the population too so it's not entirely surprising.
This country is a prison
>>2619490It fits the traditional fascoid definition of fascism but im allergic to these apes defining anything.
>>2619566>It's a vapid shithole filled with a cattle-like population, devoid of any identity or intellectualism, but steel and glass is impressive to some people, apparently.This, it is entirely empty of any culture. It's disgusting.
>>2619569Wait ew you're a fash
>>2618297>Don't know what is the obsession of /leftypol/ with Italian FascistsObviously I cannot speak for the entire board but I always found the various Mediterranean fascists to be much more competent overall and with more of a mass appeal than there northern european counterparts and ergo much more of a problem in the longterm. The various fascists regimes in Portugal,Spain and Italy held onto to power much longer than NSDAP ever did and imho over here in burgerland ᴉuᴉlossnW-esque rhetoric about le nation being realer than race has much more potential than telling every single person that isn't a white evangelical they need to die.
>>2619566>>2619569> It's a vapid shithole filled with a cattle-like population, devoid of any identity or intellectualism, but steel and glass is impressive to some people, apparently.You described Canada with less of a homelessness problem. Great culture is built when artists have food and shelter.
>>2619599>Great culture is built when artists have food and shelter.Yes, but those are not the only conditions necessary. At least Canada has Rush. Singapore is just a literal temple of consumerism and little else.
>>2619486>Not reallyOh you have no idea. He is like the "Communist bashing strict but good father" for them.
>its entire existence is predicated on an economic realityTrue
>>2619579>more competent overallIn which ways?
> le nation being realer than race As long as I have seen "le nation" is the starting point, it only rolls down the hill.
First
>our state is in danger, protect it from outsidersthen
>our state is in danger, protect it from insidersAnd then
>kill minorities>kill women>kill anyone who is not "US"And this defination of US gets narrowed down as time goes by.
>>2619841>In which ways?Other than lasting longer in power, I would say unlike the attempt at carving up eastern europe into lebensraum they were all much more successful in there colonial ambitions and two of them survived well past the second world war.
>As long as I have seen "le nation" is the starting point, it only rolls down the hill. I would agree that there a tendency to go from scapegoat to scapegoat(especially if said states aren't at war) but imho the biological racism of the northern european fascists movements makes them less flexible and not as good at recuperation. In a US context I just think it would be easier for a multiethnic empire in decline(Like spain or portugal) to embrace a doctrine where anyone can be in the ingroup as long as they meet some randomass woowoo-vibes based criteria on what it means to be a real american™
>>2618175>There are other port cities also. It is not a special one.It really is special though. Like 80 percent of global shipping squeezes through that trade corridor in the straits of Malacca where Singapore happens to sit. It was already an important entrepot at independence, and it was originally established precisely because the British recognized the area's strategic value.
>>2618175>not just a financial capital like Hong kong.You realize Hong Kong also had a lot of industrial enterprise and there was massive sweat shop and textiles industry there, just like in Singapore? Both benefited from permissive low tax environments with barely any regulation of capitalist enterprise, extremely cheap labor force that was highly disciplined by authoritarian regimes, strategic trade locations that facilitated trade with East Asia / China?
>>2618234Malaysians were also stoking tensions though. They wanted a Malay and muslim supremacist government, which is what they have today I think. Honestly, Singapore has its flaws but it was much better being independent than sticking with Malaysia, which is an Islamic shithole in my crude opinion.
>>2620285Yeah I knew that, and It could not sustain it after China's opening up, so it shifted towards finance. That is why I said Singapore "seems" to be in a better position compared to Hong Kong.
>>2620299It is an Islamic Ethnocentric Country, a literal hellhole. Asian countries (mainly south east asian and east asian) tend to embody extreme types of discrimination, segregation and hierarchies. An anthropological test must be done on this phenomenon.
>>2620346Check out Maldives. By law, only a Muslim can become a citizen. So it always has by definition a 100% Muslim demographic.
>>2620346Yeah Malaysia is a literal apartheid state, not kidding.
>>2620346>It is an Islamic Ethnocentric Country, a literal hellhole. Asian countries (mainly south east asian and east asian) tend to embody extreme types of discrimination, segregation and hierarchies. An anthropological test must be done on this phenomenon.Is it because of insecurity? Or because having more outsiders would weaken the states influence and function?
>Bumiputera, literally translates as "son of the land" or "son of the soil". In Indonesia, a related term, "Pribumi", is used, although in Malaysia it more broadly denotes indigenous peoples.
>Following the 13 May incident in 1969, the government implemented the New Economic Policy (NEP), a set of measures granting extensive social, economic and political advantages to bumiputera communities.
>Although originally presented as a temporary solution to interethnic tensions, the policy has remained in force for decades and has been described as a form of institutionalised racism.
It seems, these are effects of Asian hierarchical racist/fascist ideology, present in many many east and south east asian countries. They became institutionalized as time went by.
>also look at Lee Yew's Quotes
Now I would like the opinions of others. Did Lee Yew has just shifted the hierarchy from Malays to Chinese in Singapore. Any resources on that?
Is this thread just racist Brit/Burger posters making up things now? You can be a citizen of Malaysia or Indonesia as a Christian.
>>2621872You can be a citizen but you won't be a "Malay"
>>2621378Sharia mind virus is really funny since Malaysia was far more secular before straight up becoming an apartheid Islamic state after the oil boom
>>2622062What exactly is the Apartheid that the Christians are the victim of?
The CPF mandatory savings ordinary accounts (to be spent on housing, education, retirement, or medical), sovereign wealth funds, and Development Bank of Singapore together with the Housing and Development Fund to me indicate a set of policies which are precisely as noteworthy and successful as they are illiberal.
That housing is afforded by three times as many Singaporeans as New Yorkers despite having 80% the GDP per capita is a novel achievement. This model was even part of what helped shape the Chongqing model in China - a sort of left-wing revival for a time.
That they've managed to develop from nothing but the trade route to among the greatest economies on the planet is also an achievement. In Africa and the Middle East there are plenty of places with abundant natural resources which are incapable of defending their interests sufficiently to exploit them to the benefit of the public.
Lastly it goes against notions that democracy is tied to development and good governance, and the natural interventionist - by US, IMF, World Bank, etc. doesn't matter - disposition that follows. It's more representative of strong statement in line with the "Bangkok Declaration". [^1]
Overall despite the means-testing, financialization, reliance on migrant labor, and apparent racism that designed the system that the country is a useful model in good governance, and even in particular policies where the state has successfully intervened in the market with a heavy hand directly shaping the society that we see today.
[^1]
https://web.archive.org/web/20041124184022/http://law.hku.hk/lawgovtsociety/Bangkok%20Declaration.htm>>2639460>BumiputeraWikipedia says one sufficient condition for counting as Bumiputera is this (citing the Malaysian Higher Education Ministry):
<"If both of the parents are indigenous natives of Sarawak as stated in Article 161A (6)(a) Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus their child is considered as a Bumiputera"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumiputera_(Malaysia)So we go to the Wikipedia entry for Sarawak:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SarawakAnd that article says about half of that population is Christian. Are you saying these don't count as Bumiputera?
>>2618165Deng was open about how he loved Lee Yew's Singaporean fascist economic model. Japan's too. Huge inspirations for the CPC right. Way preferable to the Stalinized economy of "ultraleft" Mao and the Cultural Revolution Group.
Singapore is so successful because of
1. The obvious factor, Lee Kuan Yew, a politician who genuinely cared about improving the nation and dedicated his life to micromanaging every aspect of Singapore and obsessively crushing any trace of corruption in the officials beneath him.
2. Singapore consists of just the single city and thus is small enough for a single good ruler to micromanage by himself. It wouldn't work nearly so well if, for example, LKY was ruling all of Malaysia - he wouldn't be able to breathe down the neck of every official, and he'd have to delegate more of the management to others, who are unlikely to be as competent or concerned with the wellbeing of the state.
3. It being located in an extremely good spot for being a trade hub, which allowed it to grow rich more easily.
4. It being nominally neoliberal(despite how neolibs like to claim Singapore's achievements for their ideology, the policies and extreme government involvement in all areas of society that made it so successful, such as public housing with ethnic integration policy, are much more like socialism) allowed it to avoid the sanctions and political subversion that is targeted at states which openly claim a socialist or communist ideology. Well, there were still some attempts to meddle in Singaporean politics by the CIA, but to a much lesser degree than their operations in other places, like Latin America socialist states for example.
Ultimately it's a product of some very good circumstances which can't be replicated elsewhere and thus much like Switzerland isn't really a good endorsement of neoliberal democracy as a system(which it only nominally was under LKY anyway, it was far too autocratic to be called liberal or a democracy in practice). I will also note that in the wake of LKY's death and succession by bog-standard self-serving politicians it has started turning into an actual neoliberal democracy and is consequently starting to experience stagnation. For example, it is experiencing what seems to be a universal problem in developed capitalist states which is inflation outpacing wages.
>>2639736>Way preferable to the Stalinized economy of "ultraleft" Mao and the Cultural Revolution Group.I think the reason someone would unironically say this is because of the dearth of light industry, (I often hear a story of insufficient crayon colors) and the costly agrarian campaigns (something one could easily hear regularly but don't). Also just that one has happened recently where as the others are now older - part of the reason no one believes in a British model of development for example. But I don't know how I feel; it seems that the Soviet industrialization was far faster than even the Asia Tigers.
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